Best Of 700 Episodes: Day 2

Josh: The Daily Talk Show.

George: It's The Daily Talk Show, and it is Georgie Boy's Highlights Day 2. Thank you for joining me. I hope you enjoyed yesterday's show. If you haven't listened, we don't really need to go back. You can if you want. Start on this one if you want. It doesn't make much of a difference. But basically, I'm putting together my highlights of the last 700 episodes, and this is the second day of that. The boys are probably still sleeping because we have finished our 24-hour stream. And actually, to be honest, it's Thursday right now, the night before. We're flat out. It's 6 o'clock here. We're not going to do the show for another hour and a half, and I'm already exhausted and we haven't even started the 24-hour thing. So let's see how we go. But, um, I think to kick this one off This is episode 579. It's a live show, which is awesome. It's a bushfire relief fundraiser, and it's with special guest Ryan Shelton, who, you know, I love. And I can honestly say this conversation, like, changed my life. Sounds extreme, but it was so good to hear someone talking about this sort of thing and applying it to my own life. And bringing hard conversations forward has kind of been the motto of my year since hearing this conversation in January. So, I hope you enjoy this one. This is Ryan Shelton live at the bushfire fundraiser, bushfire relief fundraiser, and it's episode 579.

Josh: What about like bringing hard conversations forward? I guess that's an example with Hamish where it was the podcast, your podcast, that actually prompted you to sit down and say, hey, I've actually been feeling this way.

Mason: Yeah.

Josh: Do you think we need to be having tougher conversations sooner in life?

Ryan: Yeah, well, I, I think so. And it's, it's sort of easy for me to say now in a way because I've, I've sort of, I've had one. But, uh, I can say, I can say from the experience I've had of, of talk, and I won't go into it too much.

Josh: A lot of people here are going, listen to the podcast, did you say that?

Ryan: But yeah, it was essentially just like a thing that I was feeling in my life where I felt like I wasn't good enough to do the thing that I wanted to do. And I tracked it back to the early days of when we were starting out. And we, and I, you know, Hamish and I were like best mates, still are, but since high school, since we were like 15. And, and you know, you start off at the same place as someone and then one person sort of like you're both going the same and same, and then one person just gets a bit higher, and then you can't help but compare yourself. And we're all, you know, it's a bit of an issue at the moment, obviously, the comparing ourselves to each other.

Tommy: Comparing people that are higher than you?

Mason: I mean, yeah, exactly.

Tommy: The highest guy in the room.

Ryan: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: So now he just makes sure I'm comparing myself to him.

Ryan: Uh, yeah, so it just sort of the, the ability to have the conversation, like you said, like I wouldn't have had the conversation with him that I was— so I will go into it. So because it's annoying otherwise.

Josh: So have I been annoying? Is this a little bit annoying for you?

Ryan: No, no.

Josh: It sounds like it's a bit annoying.

Ryan: But spend the next week not thinking about it.

Josh: Okay, no, great. No, it was more because I thought it was a good opportunity for people to listen to the podcast. But I'm happy that you're going into it now.

Ryan: Thank you. Essentially, I had this feeling that I wasn't good enough. It's not that I didn't think I could achieve things. I thought I could do things, but I never felt like I was— I just had this feeling, this fraudulent feeling or this insecure thing that I was like, "Well, I can't do the things that many other people are doing." I tracked it back to this thing of like, "Well, it's probably because Hamish and I were same level, and then he rose up and did incredible things. And because then my reaction to that was like, I want that, or I wish I was doing that, and oh shit, why isn't he bringing me along for the ride? Like, why isn't he giving me the same things that he's been given? I saw that as really unfair, and then because of that, for years I wasn't able to like celebrate the great things he was doing. I wasn't able to like be there as his best mate and be happy for him when he had the biggest podcast in Australian history. And he, all these, I mean, we all know what he's done, but, and I was sort of off to the side and I couldn't even listen to his radio show, their radio show, and I couldn't, I couldn't be that great mate that I would want if I was experiencing that. Because having that much success and fame, of course it's, It's great and a lot of good things come with it, but of course you want your close people with you to be able to support you through what is a pretty strange experience. And I wasn't able to be there for him in that time because I was resentful. And so I had this realisation recently and spoke to him about it and it was pretty incredible because you might think that he'd be like shocked but he felt it. Like the whole time he was feeling that same thing. He was probably a bit confused as to why I wasn't like getting excited about all the funny things he was doing. And to be able to talk to him, and not that our friendship suffered or anything like that, but there was definitely this weird block there, this weird little thing that was unresolved and never spoken about. And to be able to speak about it meant that all those years of confusion and that weird block was kind of just vanished, sort of, because we both understood. And then he then said some things to me that, like, issues that he had with the way that, which I won't go into now, but like it meant it opened up a whole conversation that meant that we could have this chat about all the stuff that we haven't said. And now we were already like, you know, we were already really good friends and now I just feel like it's just easier.

Tommy: I mean, catalysts for these kind of conversations, they're hard and so you could, I mean, if you built the muscle of saying I'll have the hard conversation, I'll bring it forward, I mean it takes time and it's only human to keep these things inside but without getting into details, as I say, what was it internally for you that shifted, not necessarily the day that you decide to have a conversation like that, but what is it inside that actually makes you action something that is going to be a really hard thing in life?

Ryan: What made me do it?

Tommy: Yeah, what is the, why do you, if you're getting a bit meta about why you decided to do it now?

Josh: Was it just the podcast? It was just the podcast.

Ryan: In my case, it was the podcast and it's a, It's a shame. It's pretty fucked up. It's pretty fucked up. It's a shame that it took that, but—

Josh: But I can relate. Like, I think that we talk about more shit on our podcast than we do to our family and friends.

Ryan: But I will say though that I reckon the fact that I'm doing this podcast, which is so out of my comfort zone and so different than anything I've ever done before, I think there was something bigger probably that that pushed me towards wanting to do that, and this has just been one of the results of that. So I think I'm learning a hell of a lot about it. Like, I'm absolutely not the expert in mental health at all.

Josh: And so you've got a co-host, Hugh, and it's part of the Resilience Project?

Ryan: Yeah, so Hugh van Cuylenburg is the founder of the Resilience Project, and he's this incredible guy, and he does these talks around the country, and he's been doing it for years, and just helps thousands and thousands of people. And I met him randomly and we became friends and, and now we do this podcast together. So he's the, he's the expert giving all the— so don't worry, you're not going to tune in like I'm giving lessons on mental health, but he, he is.

Josh: And it's a podcast, it's—

Ryan: but it's so, it's so helpful. Like, I learn a hell of a lot from him, and, and I know a lot of the people that listen learn a lot as well. And he is He does, he is able to deliver lessons and talk about things in a way that's quite accessible and not as dry as maybe sometimes it feels.

Tommy: Can we all agree that it's very annoying that the hard things in life are the things that actually help us progress? Like it is really, I think last year for me, I spent, I really sort of learned that doing the shit that's uncomfortable is where you find the growth, which it sounds so cliché and it has for so long, but it's like really embodying that is super helpful. So it's like, if that's the hack, which isn't even a hack because it's this painful thing that you have to put yourself through, like a conversation with you or a podcast every day with this guy, you know, there's a bunch of stuff, man.

Mason: It's all good.

Tommy: Great socks.

Josh: Thank you. I don't actually know what these socks are. They're just stars on them.

Tommy: They're all good socks except for mine today.

Ryan: You don't have to have an explanation for every pair of socks.

Josh: Well, no, actually I got these for my brother's wedding. He was gifted to me. But the, I know you said not to give an explanation, but the feeling, what, like to live vicariously through you. So instead of us having the hard conversation, can you just tell us how good it felt? What was the, was it all a good feeling walking away?

Ryan: Yeah, it was a relief. It's that feeling, it's a bit of a burden off, a bit of a weight off your shoulders. What's the setting?

Josh: What do you, when do you, I try and work out how do you have these conversations?

Ryan: It was a—

Tommy: Vaudemont.

Ryan: It was, we went out for dinner and yeah, I just sort of—

Josh: Vaudemont.

Ryan: Not at Vaudemont.

Tommy: Okay, Nando's.

Ryan: Not at Nando's.

Josh: What sort of, what basting do you like?

Mason: It was—

Ryan: What's that?

Josh: Basting. Oh, I'm—

Ryan: what's the medium one?

Josh: It's medium.

Ryan: Yeah, medium.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: Or is it mild?

Josh: I think it's very confusing. They have sauces and bastings and they call them medium for one and mild the other, which they should just—

Ryan: What do you mean?

Josh: They don't—

Ryan: they don't—

Josh: they're not consistent in that.

Ryan: Let's get them on the line.

Josh: Yeah, we could. But, um, so that, that feel like—

Tommy: so he went out for dinner.

Mason: He went out for dinner.

Josh: Yes, you go out to dinner.

Tommy: Josh always wants to know, what did you eat?

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: What'd you have?

Ryan: I can't even remember what we had.

Josh: And did you say, you're like, "Hey, I need to have," like, do you preface it?

Ryan: Before the dinner?

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: No, it was just like a normal dinner and then just, again, the wind-up.

Josh: Yeah, we got 2 minutes, we got 2 minutes.

Ryan: And then, yeah, I just sort of brought it up at dinner and just, yeah, it's an awkward conversation, but at the same time—

Josh: So you sound like, "So, I've been thinking." Do you want me to?

Ryan: I didn't have a script. But it was just, I just sort of said, hey, so blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm not gonna do it, but.

Tommy: But there's a recorder, it's actually a podcast, so you can listen to it.

Josh: No, it wasn't actually a podcast. He just talks about it in the podcast. So, no, I thought they would've got that. We'll just finish on this. Yep. So you sit down.

Mason: Yep.

Josh: But you don't know that you're having a serious conversation.

Ryan: I know, I know, I know.

Josh: But Hamish doesn't know.

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, but that sometimes happens when someone brings up a conversation and the other person's not coming. Like you don't have to, You know, like sometimes that happens.

Josh: But the transitional point of like, "Oh yeah, I'll have this and that." It's like, "Hey, so I was thinking about like for the last 15 years I've been feeling like a little bit resentful." I didn't, that probably would've been, that's like the clickbait version.

Ryan: But I was a bit subtler than that. Yeah.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: Entree first and then.

Josh: Yeah. Then hit him with the good shit.

Mason: Oh, it's interesting.

Tommy: Foodamon's 8-course.

Josh: Well, it'd be good to— I mean, having those conversations is important, right?

Tommy: So if someone needs to have a hard conversation in the next 2 days, they're inspired by your conversation, the storey you tell leading up to it heightens obviously the feeling that you have inside about how it's going to play out. What's some comfort for somebody, or is there nothing?

Ryan: Well, no, what I did honestly think afterwards and after we— 'cause of course it's hard starting. Once you're into it, it's easier. And once you finish it, it's even obviously easier again. And it depends what it is, obviously. But it's kind of hard to give a sweeping statement because everyone's different. But in my situation, it wasn't as big of a deal as I built it up to be. I think that's the— that problem when you kind of think think something over and over and you analyse it over and over, even if it's just over a day. But when it happens over 15 years, you think, oh. And, but the thing is, like, I wasn't even thinking about it for 15 years. I was just only thinking about it for a year.

Mason: Yeah.

Ryan: Because I didn't have the realisation till then. So, but then the, the comfort people can have is it's probably not going to be as big of a shock to the other person as you think it's going to be.

George: This next little bit is from episode 62, and they have a conversation about only doing the podcast for, you know, a short amount of time. Clearly, they've kept going every day, but it's interesting to see them at the start of their journey talking about how long they should do this thing for. Also, they talk about their screen time, and this was only, you know, a couple of years ago, and their screen time compared to now is so much less. If you've heard any of the later episodes, they're doing, you know, on their— on Instagram for like 4 or 5 hours a day, even longer. Josh, I think, was up to like 10 hours one day. But, um, so it's interesting to hear them talking about how much time they're spending on their phone. Back then they thought it was too much. I wonder what they think right now. So, here we go. Episode 62.

Tommy: You know, to be honest, I'd be happy for us to get to 100 episodes of this podcast.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And fucking call it a day.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Seriously, like 100 of anything.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: You know how much 100 times by 30 minutes It's 3,000 minutes of talking. Where we've come in 3,000 minutes of talking is exceptional.

Josh: Yeah. And then it's working out like the next iteration, right? Because then it means that it's like you've oiled up whatever it is to do the next thing. I do wonder, it's almost like the dip, which is Seth Godin's theory and book, which is like you get to a point. And so say it's that 100 episodes, maybe that's the dip. Maybe it's when we're like not seeing any growth. Like we've had the same amount of audience the last 50 episodes, whatever it is. And so we stop. However, yeah, the 110th episode is when things fucking go bang.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: And so I think that that's definitely the, um, you know, when is the last— when is the last Seinfeld? When's the right time to do the last Seinfeld episode? When's the last time—

Tommy: I remember when he made his billionth dollar.

Josh: Well, like Rove Live. I remember when Rove was a thing. And just being like, when that ended, it was a big deal.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Um, and that when Hamish and Andy decided to finish the radio show, like all of these things. John Farnham decided to leave for the seventh time, you know, his career, you know, like, yeah, totally. It's—

Tommy: I think, fucking, I want to make more videos and I feel like this gets in the way of that, but maybe it doesn't. I reckon I've created more videos this year than I did last year.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I've also done 62 episodes of a podcast.

George: Yeah.

Tommy: So if it— if I know the excuse of this is getting in the way of videos is bullshit because I'm more creative in my mind and, you know, and the skills I'm getting from talking.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: You know, on a podcast is a lot.

Josh: And because it's like, what would you do if you weren't doing this, right? The thing is like, this is what this is probably eating into right now for me is just lazing time.

Mason: Time.

Josh: I'll just be lazing around. And so, um, and it's the difficulty— it is that thing of like, it's, uh, it's like running because, you know, I'm a runner now.

Tommy: So it's 3 days in, 3Ks a day.

Josh: It's, um, it's the, it's the whole thing where it's like when I'm, when I'm running, it's like it's a little bit painful, it's a little bit annoying but I'm like, if I actually— it's only 20 minutes of my life. And so why do we think about what you would give? Like, if I look at my phone right now and I look at the last 24 hours, I can tell you how much time I have spent, uh, on different apps, right? And so if we, if we just look at— if we purely look at that, and then it it really should put in perspective some of those other things, right? Like going to my battery— here we go, uh, battery usage. Last 24 hours I've spent 1.2 hours on Instagram. In the last 7 days I've spent 6.9 hours. So basically an hour every day on the fucking app. I've spent— in the last 7 days, I've spent over 9 hours on my phone. I'm sorry, on the phone, like calling people. So you look at all these things, dude.

Tommy: Instagram, for me, last 24 hours, yeah, 24 minutes.

Josh: That's good.

Tommy: What was yours? An hour and a half?

Josh: An hour and 1.2.

Tommy: My biggest one was email. 27 minutes in the last 24 hours. YouTube, 24 minutes. Phone, 1.1 hours I've spent on the phone.

Josh: Yeah, go to your last 7 days, everyone. If you just go into the battery section of your iPhone, it tells you all these details under battery use.

Tommy: 4 hours in the last 7 days on, um, Instagram.

Josh: Fuck, and I've spent 7 hours. Wow, I'm really spending double the amount of time.

Tommy: And then YouTube, what do you got on YouTube?

Josh: I don't— I hardly use my phone for YouTube.

Tommy: What's the next thing?

Josh: Uh, The next thing for me is phone at 9 hours, and then it goes down to fucking like, um, Chrome, which is only 1.3 hours, 1 hour on my email, 25 minutes on Google Maps. Facebook gets fucking hardly any time really. How much time do you get on Facebook? 1.3 in the last 7 days? Yeah, mine's 54 minutes. Spending less time on Facebook than you are. Fuck. Facebook can go fuck itself.

Tommy: You get an issue.

George: This is one of my favourite episodes. It's number 413, live from the salon. Mr. 97 is bleaching his hair blonde. It's all happening. We've got multi-camera setup. Rachel Vitullo is doing it and she is the number one hair colourist in the country. This was all organised, of course, by Queen Gronkh, Gemma Watts. And of course, she had to come along and be in the show. So, You get 2 eps, Gem. That's pretty good. You've got to be happy with that. Really fun episode live from the salon with Rachel Vitullo and Mr. 97 bleaching his hair.

Tommy: Quick check-in with Mr. 97. He's got a mic in his hand.

Josh: How are you feeling?

G: You look great.

Radio: It's good. It just feels like there's a bit of paste on my head.

Jack: There is.

Tommy: I had a moment where I was like, there is no turning back right now.

Radio: Oh, I know. I was thinking that just before.

Tommy: There is no turning back.

I: You can always change it back to his natural colour after.

Tommy: For another $540.

Josh: And so do you have to, I believe my brother when we were kids did that, but he had to dye it red before he went to brown or black. Is that a thing?

I: Well, when I was in high school and I had a lot of friends that went from blonde to brunette, that was essentially the way to go. But now with technology of color, as long as you re-deposit the pigment that was lost when lightening in your color, if that makes sense. So—

G: To me it does.

Josh: Yeah, to these two.

J: I'm a blonde, yeah.

I: So when you, so there's 3 stages of lightening really depending on how dark you are naturally. So in this situation here, the first colour that will appear is red. Then it'll go to orange, and then it'll go to yellow.

Josh: Interesting.

I: And then we counteract that tone once we get it to the lightest level possible. That's the aim of the game today. So essentially, when you're going darker, you have to re-put those pigments back in in order for it to not look green or blue or cac. So cac, cac, what's cac?

G: Like that Carrie-Anne Kennerley.

Josh: Is cac the colour of '97's top?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

I: So You do have to re-put that pigment into your colour when you go back to your natural, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that two-stage process like it used to.

Josh: Do you always have to?

Tommy: I'm so glad we're not doing this ourselves.

G: Yeah, I cannot stress to you enough how good this will be.

Josh: I mean, and we're also like, the carpet at the office is gonna be fine now. 'Cause TJ was like, Tommy was worried about the carpet.

Tommy: Like if we spilled a little bit on the carpet, that's a full—

G: I got stressed. Sydney and I had no involvement with this. And then I am listening and then, oh, we'll have to get Gemma in. Oh, I think she's in Sydney at the moment. And I'm like, hang on, I didn't put my hand up.

Josh: We nearly did it in the garage from it with a little. So do we have to put toner in this? No matter what, do you always end by putting toner in a scalp lining?

Tommy: Session?

I: Not necessarily, really.

K: Lightning.

I: Lightning.

Mason: Lightning.

Josh: Lightning.

Radio: You're getting confused between the other—

Ryan: what was the other one?

Tommy: Yeah, look, he's thinking about his folliculitis, so let's be honest.

Josh: You were not allowed to mention folliculitis.

G: You were allowed to, I'm just—

Tommy: I said the F word.

G: I just woke up this morning and my first thought was just, this is a whole morning of folliculitis jokes.

Tommy: Well, look, it's not about Josh or me, it's It's about Mr. 97, Gemma, and Rachel.

Josh: And so we won't talk about the scalp then. I did have a scalp-related question.

G: No, do it, do it.

Josh: I mean, do you, Rach, I know you're not a dermatologist, but have you heard of folliculitis and do you know anything that you can do to help it? No, explain. It's sort of like a pimply thing on your head. It's like pimples on your head.

Tommy: Oh, it's actually like infection of the scalp surface, dude. So, It's not a pimple. You got a pimple?

G: It's not like psoriasis but on the scalp specifically.

Tommy: I mean, it's a little bit like that, I guess, but it's—

Josh: there is some form of element that antibiotics can be helpful.

Tommy: Yeah, which is antibiotics are for bacteria, fungal infections. I always think— I've got a son, he's 2 and a half years old. He goes to daycare and I'm a cool dad. I mean, I didn't have to say it because you said it.

G: Yeah, I was helping you.

Tommy: I did repeat it, but it was— I'm glad you said it before me.

G: You're welcome.

Tommy: Knits lice.

G: Oh no.

Tommy: Like, I always think, imagine when you deal with hair, Rach, like, have you seen them before?

I: Yeah, yeah, and I've had it multiple times.

G: Yeah, I've had them as an adult.

Josh: The cleaner the hair.

Tommy: Oh yeah, now there is a bit of bleach on it. I'll turn that around.

Josh: Do you want to actually just wipe it off?

Tommy: Yeah, I'll wipe it off.

Josh: You're just going to keep it on? Unbelievable. Rode microphones, we're so sorry.

Tommy: It's gone, it's gone, it's gone white.

Josh: Are you sniffing it?

Tommy: I was just smelling it to see. But so you've—

I: have you ever had someone come in and you've just looked at their hair and you've gone, "Oh, dull." Yeah, but the hard thing is now we as hairdressers in this industry, we actually can't refuse service when a person comes in with head lice.

Jack: Can't you?

Radio: Oh, really?

I: No, so because it's kind of like—

Josh: Do you have to charge extra at least?

I: It's a donation and stuff.

Josh: Really?

L: Yeah.

I: So what we have to do is still complete the service, let the client know that they've got head lice and that it needs to be treated, and then we have to disinfect everything.

Josh: Could you— do you ever say it up front so that they, out of their own sort of options, say actually, you know what?

Tommy: Well, I think a lot of us, like, you see something wrong like that and you kind of You feel awkward about bringing it up for them. And so you kind of make it, again, then goes back to yourself 'cause you're not wanting to feel weird.

I: Well, you try to not make it like it's an issue because it's not.

Tommy: But it's a fucking issue.

I: It is a fucking issue. But because it's not like someone will get sick from it or anything like that. So we just let them know the correct way to treat it.

Josh: I'm seeing the color. It's coming out. It's coming out. I don't want to use the word clueless, but I wasn't expecting to be able to see. I would expect that we would wash it off and then—

Ryan: Do you actually see like just brown coming off?

Josh: No, no, no.

Tommy: How about a brown coming off?

Josh: You think that we're washing the brown out of your hair?

Mason: No.

Tommy: How about we get an update from Rachel?

Josh: What's happening?

I: So when you can see— oh, I don't know what you guys can you can probably see, see right off his scalp is slightly lighter than what it is on the very ends.

Mason: Yeah.

I: So naturally our head releases a lot of heat, so about that much of the root area will always lift further and faster than the hair on the rest of the head, which is why I like to lighten all the way through on shorter hair. So we are getting really good lift, but I can tell by—

G: Lift is the color, not the fading.

I: Yeah, it's lightening up, it's lightening really well.

Ryan: It looks quite flat.

I: But I can tell this is gonna need to process under like a heat machine.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: With a little prompting, it'll come out. Rach, are you single?

I: Yes, I am.

Tommy: For a single woman, you know—

L: Wow.

Josh: Probably, how much does— Tommy's great in the sense that he asks all the questions.

Tommy: Look, I'm a married man with a kid. It's like, I just feel like—

Josh: The only reason he's married with a kid is so he can ask these questions, to be honest.

Tommy: No, but if you saw a young strapping man that had this kind of hair, what's your thoughts?

I: As in like the end result he's gonna have?

Tommy: I mean, say you nail it and you see him walking down the street, you're like, is that Adam Levine? No, it's just some other guy. But is it appealing? Is it going to increase his sort of—

Josh: It's a peacock.

Tommy: —dating capabilities?

I: Yeah, 100%. I think that once I've created this amazing color, it will, as he's walking down the street, a lot of women will be like, "Oh, he takes pride in the way he looks. You know, he really tries." And I think that's really important.

Josh: And because Mr., I think that's a brand value that you stand by, 97, which is you do try with things. And so it's just finishing off the brand.

Tommy: He'll be the guy. I mean, he's young now, he's 19, but when he's that 35-year-old bloke, bloke. He'll be the friend to us that has his shit together. Yeah.

Mason: And it's just taken us a long time.

Josh: We're relying on his superannuation.

George: This is another really funny episode. It's number 633 with Dave Thornton. And I love these ones. You know, you get a really good insight into what JJ was like back in his early 20s when he was working at the radio station. It's just really funny to listen to. You should listen to the whole episode because at the end they start calling Josh an alien because he's, you know, doesn't— he's asking weird questions and stuff. But this is a snippet from the start of the episode, uh, just kind of reminiscing about the radio days. Uh, so this is number 633 with Dave Thornton.

Radio: Geez, I love this because JJ— Tommy, we unfortunately never worked together in commercial radio.

Tommy: We crossed paths though, it's in the same business. Yeah, but JJ, because similar paychecks, I think we're on, you know, that's it.

Josh: Yeah, that's very similar.

Mason: So that's why we had such It was just cigarettes.

Radio: It was like jail. We just got half a packet each. They said enjoy. But JJ used to be around and I've forgotten about this, that you have so much knowledge in some areas and absolute none in others. I loved it. Your knowledge is like if it's a roof, there's only a support in one corner. The rest of it's very fragile. It's like a tart. It's about to fall over. So those cigarettes, I used to enjoy it so much. The thing, the blind spots in your knowledge.

Josh: I used to get in so much trouble because I'd always be in your show meetings, remember? But I used to I used to love it.

Radio: I'd be like, let him talk.

Tommy: Did you work on their show?

Josh: No, could we just be there throwing stuff around?

Radio: Yeah.

Josh: And that was because, uh, Fifa and Jules just didn't have time for it. It's like, I feel like Sam Cav's main job was like performance managing me. And so anyway, I would go into, um, uh, you were doing, uh, Mamma Mia today with Emre Cano, and they would just let me go in because when you think women's issues, you look across the water.

Radio: Yeah.

Mason: And so I was woke before I knew what it was, guys.

Josh: And you would, you would let me in and just like, they'd be like, Josh, what do you think? It's fucking great. I think it was because you only had like half a producer or something. Well, no, Zoe Leonard was a great producer, but then like, it was just, it sounds very rude, doesn't it? Half a producer, as in she was only putting half her time?

Tommy: No, they resourced only half of her time aside. Yeah, that's what I was saying.

Josh: Not that Zoe's half a producer. Oh geez.

Radio: You're treading on thin ground here, JJ. No, but it was such a strange anomaly, that show, because I get it, they wanted to get mums listening because it was between 3 and 4 memory. So there would be mums in the cars picking up kids. But then they, and they wanted to jump on the back of Mamma Mia, the website. But then they had the old school commercial radio thing of like one girl, one guy, put them together, funny guy who's going to do some stuff. But then you're running off Mamma Mia, which is a great website, but it talks some really heavy-handed issues. So they're like, you know, like that, like talking about, I don't know, like sex workers in developing countries and how we could— how young girls are getting groomed. What are we going to talk about? And I'm a comedian, like, Josh has done something funny with cake cups. Look across and go, please, can we just not talk about this serious issue on commercial radio?

Josh: Yeah, we had, we had a lot of fun. Actually, I remember a specific time where Jules was asking me to do something. I said, mate, like I don't have time. He said, you just spent 3 hours with Dave Thornton.

Radio: Yeah, because we had fun.

Josh: Yeah, it was a rapport.

Tommy: And then that show turned into the Evening Show. Did that turn into another show or did you move from that show to another show? And did Josh come with you?

Radio: I wanted him to. I was always impressed somehow, like Fifi and Jules would go overseas to London or something and they're like, yeah, Josh is coming with us. I'm like, Harry!

Josh: Hustled. Well, it was hard. I remember it was— I was on a different flight to them, which was weird. Yeah, no, everyone was going on one flight and I was on the other one. And I also brought my— they were like, they didn't have cameras. I'm like, hey guys, I've bought like 4 GoPros, I'm ready. And so they let me. But actually, when I was quitting—

Radio: to be honest, it's not weird. You shouldn't have been on the trip and now you've been put on a budget airline.

Tommy: Like, you guys are great. And Jules actually used his points to get you on that flight.

Josh: No, no, probably didn't.

Mason: I'd imagine he would though. Yeah.

Radio: He was the extra 20 kilogrammes of luggage. They literally put Josh on there. That's why he got so slim. To get on the flight.

Josh: But when I quit, do you remember when I was quitting radio? I was like, I decided on a day and I was like behind the radio station pacing. Yes. And you rocked up in your Mini. You were doing like you were going home or whatever. And I waved you down and you gave me a motivational Speech. You would do.

Radio: I don't reckon though. You are way not the first person to be walking that block around SCA. There's plenty of people who've walked that block just going, what have I done with my life? Like, I don't want to cast aspersions on the people behind us, but, you know, at SCA there, they've got the two radio stations, they've got Fox FM and they've got Triple M below them. And then behind it there is Commission Flats, as you know.

Josh: So I thought you were going to say the best performing radio station out of the mall, which is Coles Radio underneath. That's right. They are good. That's hilarious.

Radio: I play that like, we're right upstairs. Nah, we'd prefer to make our own.

Josh: You know, that's like the number one digital radio station in Australia.

Tommy: They're in the same charts or the same system, ranking system as FM radio.

Josh: Is that right? Well, I don't— is it?

Tommy: Well, there's something going on here.

Josh: Well, yeah. So I think the, from a survey point of view, they look at the digital stuff and because Coles, Coles worked out that it was cheaper for them from a licencing perspective to have their own digital radio station than it was to pay the PPACA APRA licences per store. So they just play their own radio station. But if you have a look, 97, can you see it there?

Tommy: It was always a funny thing in Shepparton. We would hear the Coles radio going and my mate and I were like, yeah, it's someone from regional radio is going to like it was almost a joke that you're going to be on the Coles radio. Next minute there was a girl who worked regional radio that was on Coles radio. Oh, she stepped up to the big leagues. Well, we thought it was a step down, but yeah, as we know now, it's a step up. You're finding anything there, Seth? More reach than Shepparton.

Radio: That's true. They've gone self-serve on the radio as well. That's incredible.

Tommy: So what was the speech? What did you tell him? Do you remember, Dave?

Josh: I just remember you saying like, mate, yeah, when I was in Nova in Queensland. Did you do Nova in Queensland? In Brisbane.

I: Brisbane. Yeah.

Josh: Which is Queensland.

Radio: Thank you. Yeah, very good. Well, he wanted to get more specific, that's all. He wanted the regional city.

Josh: He wanted— yeah, cap city.

Radio: No, it looked like I was going to the state. I wasn't.

Josh: I just remember you just said, uh, yeah, mate, I've done this before. You should— yeah, go out, do it. Just— I know you don't have another job, that doesn't matter. And so you're the one that pushed me. And so after that conversation, I went upstairs, typed in resignation letter template filled it out, printed it out, and gave it to Dave Cameron. And that day, half an hour after speaking to Thornow, Bree— I spoke to Bree on the phone. Bree's like, don't do it. Like, I'm waiting until I get a job before I do it. And then Thornow just gave me the confidence.

Radio: And then he was my sponsor child for a year and a half. Tommy, that's what I do.

Tommy: Somehow he's still in the content meetings with Em Marciano.

Radio: I got a great one. My rent can't get paid. So is that Thornow's fault or not? 131060. Yeah.

Josh: Do you need to keep cup if you can't afford one.

Radio: Yeah, no, I did say to you, because you were at that age, what, I would have been 22?

Jack: Yeah, that's quit worthy.

Radio: Yeah, no, you just know anything at 22. Yes, that's, that's exactly what you do, because you just go, well, go see stuff, go do things, go answer that question, because otherwise you're still there, mate. You're still there, and somehow you're in marketing and you're pretty sure, and you would have been a good redundancy package by now. Like, you're turning up to OBs and you're putting the signs out the sandwich board and going, oh, that's all It's all right. It's all right.

Tommy: Well, if you have no responsibilities, that's the age that you should be able to do it.

Josh: That's exactly right. Yeah, it was a good decision.

Tommy: Did you travel when you were young?

Radio: Yeah. 22-year-old? Yep. I'm trying to think. I, because I grew up in Geelong, I worked as a graphic designer up here in Thornbury and I used to drive that every day. That's like an hour and a half.

Josh: That's a lot of Coles Radio to fill. Thornbury. Do you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you went from Geelong to Thornbury? Yeah. That's what I'm trying to work out. Yeah.

Radio: Drove every day. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And then just so I could save money so I could go backpacking, and then I went for 2 years or something.

M: Oh shit, that's a good stint.

Tommy: Yeah, it was great. The UK, so much fun. Let me guess.

Radio: Yeah, yeah, funny. Has anyone done that before? Has anyone?

Tommy: No. So how long did you— let me guess, you based yourself in the UK and then flew out to other places, or no?

Radio: I based myself in Dublin, uh, so I mean close hours, but yes. And then I worked in the Greek islands for like a summer.

Josh: What did you do there?

Radio: Picked up a lot of diseases, I think.

Tommy: Was Nick Giannopoulos frequenting Mykonos at that point, or did you see him there? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Radio: That's what I used to do. Just, I had a horn with me that just went, da-da-da-da-da, and then doors would open.

Tommy: The king of Mykonos, Nick Giannopoulos.

George: Next chat is from episode 616. It's a weekend banter, and it's with two of our favourite gronks, Peter Shepherd and Scooter Derrick. Peter Shepherd is a coach. If you didn't know that, you should really listen to all of his episodes. You know, he has some really interesting questions and gets you thinking about business and creativity and the why in what you do. And Scooter Derek is a really good friend of the show who helps out a lot. He's got his own podcast business, and we pick it up here when they're running through a little bit of a workshop. So this is episode 616 with Peter Shepherd and Scooter Derek.

J: When we decided to collab and I hadn't done this, I remember that feeling of ringing, ringing him up saying, Danny, I'm really sorry, I just made an arbitrary decision. And I'm unaccustomed to ever having to talk to anyone about that. Probably why I'm in trouble with my wife a lot of the time, because that is a collab, I guess. But just confirming it is. Yeah. But yeah, there was that moment when I realised I just decided to go and you know, try out some advertising thing and put the money in. And he's like, oh, okay, don't worry about it, I'll give you half the money. I went, oh, that's the good side of collabing. Someone else is wearing the stress and stuff like that. So I learned from that that it is lovely to have someone else who cares involved in something. It's really nice.

Josh: And so why don't you do more of it? Jealous of you too. Well, you can do it. You're— we're collabing right now. You start bickering and then— yeah, it's a pain in the ass. But what's it like if you were to do more collabing? What would that look like? Well, I don't know.

J: It's not my natural thing.

Josh: So is it not natural because you can't rely on people?

J: I don't know. I guess if I look at the idea I've got for this, say, the Studio Two, and I go, all right, what do I need off someone else? Someone who's keen, who wants to get into it. Is it someone who's gonna muck in and build, or someone just forks out some cash? Like, what do I want out of someone?

M: Yeah, I think what's it like? What's collaboration?

Ryan: Are they going to make it 3 times better?

J: Yeah.

M: What's, what's, so what's it for for you? Why, why a collaborator?

J: How does that help? Feels good. I just want to do something that is a collab, you know, I just like the word.

Radio: He likes to learn.

J: George told me that a couple years back. I've been loving it. Yeah, but I don't know, I just—

Josh: and a Zoom room, Zoom room and a collab. Oh, Zoom room. Yeah. So I find the collab thing interesting because I get it because it— but it's very hard to collaborate with someone, you need to do a lot of work internally in understanding what you want. But also, like, you can't change your idea. I can't— when you're doing it on your own, you can just go from one area to the other. You can like be extremes and just do whatever you want. When you're collaborating with someone, everything— like, the biggest amount of tension I have is the annoyance of like, I need to explain myself, which I normally don't have to explain myself, but that's a good thing to go through. Is that part of it? So if you ask for money, what are people going to ask you?

J: Well, then you— if someone, if someone says, all right, I'll be in that, I've got dough and no talent, then you'd kind of go, let's leave that to the last minute and see if I can get through, because you're not going to provide anything except taking half the, the profit, I guess. And then you think, well, is half the profit of something that's done properly and invested in properly it's going to be more— should be more than double, you know what I mean? So it should help. When I had the bar, that was the last time I was in— like, the only time I was in a business with someone. I was in business with two other guys and they couldn't get along because they had completely different dreams. So it was a complete disaster.

Josh: Maybe that was it. What were the different dreams?

J: Well, one of my business partners was, um, he wanted— he wanted the bar to be like St. Jude. He wanted to be a wine bar. He wanted to be the kind of bar that he would go to and just be really proud of. But that would have required us all to chuck in $150 grand each, and none of us had any money. So it was like, so number one, your dream, fuck it off, save it for another day. But then the other one, the other business partner, rest his soul, he's gone now, but he was, um, he liked the idea of just having a bar and serving Carlton Draught and being rude to people that wanted a coffee and, you know, that old school, because he came from that old vibe.

Tommy: And what did you want?

J: Well, I was kind of in the middle. I wanted personality. I wanted to, you know, to, to make the place where everyone was happy, in which case that favoured the Carlton Draft guy. And but they couldn't get along because it was like, well, we couldn't run this bar without them, without Andrew, right? Being manager every day, unpaid or whatever, you know, just as a shareholder. Yeah. And turning up every single day because we can't afford to pay anyone. In the end, it kind of worked out like Andrew and I ended up, right, well, let's buy, let's buy Dave out, right? You know, it's not going to work, he's unhappy. So we bought him out for virtually nothing and released him, and then, and then sold the business.

M: I feel like we're getting closer to your definition of success, Scoot. So getting out of it, there's a question that I think JJ answered really well this morning in the workshop that we ran that I'd be curious for your thoughts on. So I just transferred you $10 million. Now you have no excuse around time and money. You're living in a world with no constraints.

J: What are you going to do tomorrow or in the next few weeks?

M: Or what are you going to do with your time once you buy your holiday house and do all that?

J: Once you've got the material stuff, original.

M: What do you do with your time?

J: Yeah. Yeah, I think I would. I probably— it feels like I would run with the same plan. That's good. But in a building that I owned and obviously much better. But I don't know if I can own it, even own a building. Can you make it $20 mil? That's Collingwood.

Josh: You're a greedy fuck. Sorry.

M: And so there was no mention of collaborators in that version of the future. So I wonder if there's something there around you being attached to this idea of a collaboration when you're not actually clear in that whether that's what you're seeking. It's just because we get to watch Tommy and Josh and go, that looks cool.

J: Yeah, well, they are— that is surely— that would put me straight into another, um, mind-bending situation where you go, if someone wanted to collaborate with you after they knew you had $20 million. Yeah, right. Even though you'd already spent 6 on a warehouse, then you'd start with that kind of gold digger feel and you go, oh, I don't know how my mind would go from there. We'll never know. Yeah, but I definitely would. There'd be people around. This is not my dream. Would not be to be in a warehouse tinkering with all my millions and making it perfect. Then I would— I guess it ends up being staff, doesn't it?

Josh: Well, yeah. So there's a difference between when you've got— well, this is what we've been talking about, the difference between employees and having a partnership. They're very different employees. I can tell 97, hey, I think we should do this, and he can push back a little bit, but at the end of the day, he does what we think we should do. Yeah. Tommy and I, it's like, okay, no, like we bring— we have to sell it into each other, we have to justify it. And so there's a big difference between having staff, having people come in and use your space, versus having a partner, I think. Do you think that you could— are you seeking a partner? Are you seeking, uh, that employee team that can execute on a dictatorship?

J: It just feels like a bit much to, to have to at this stage of life to have to be, especially if I was rolling with a multimillion-dollar business, then it would be a bit much to then have to be an expert at accounting, an expert at cinematography, an expert at audio. I— you just have to load people in. You have a team, have a team and then learn off them. Love that, that idea, learning off your staff.

Josh: That's— I think that's—

J: I did that back in the, in the '90s. I had a manufacturing business and I'd learnt all my blacksmithing skills off my staff.

M: You raise a fair point, though. I guess the question is like, can you collaborate with an employee? I think you can.

Josh: Yeah. Well, I think that that's the whole co-creation thing, right? Like, that's the new— I joke about the dictatorship because it's very much like when we're working with 97, he is giving us the— he's telling us this is how I think we should do it. Yeah. Um, but it is— there's definitely a difference in the, the different dynamics. Totally. And what did you find, Scooter, having staff? Are you a bit burnt by that? Like, do you think that all these sort of experiences play into where you are now?

J: I reckon one of the biggest mistakes you can make is making a vow. I'm vowing never to do this or never to do that.

Josh: It's marriage. Yeah.

J: This next episode I want to throw back to is number 500.

George: Episode 112, and it's with Matt D'Avella and his wife, Nat. The boys are in LA and they're talking about their experience trying edibles. Matt is obviously a very successful filmmaker and he's been on the show many, many times. And his conversations about creativity and making videos are really awesome and you should listen to those. The reason I picked this one is because it's about the boys leaning into something that is out of their comfort zone and talking about their experiences while travelling overseas. So, this is a funny one. This is 512. We decided that we'll try edibles.

Josh: So, in California, how long has it been legal for?

K: Beginning of last year, right?

Josh: Yeah. And so, because the thing is, I'm not someone— I've never smoked in my life. I've never done drugs in my life. And so, this— it felt like it was— safe enough based on sort of the whole MedMen thing and it's all nice and easy, do you find that the barrier to entry means that more people are potheads that you wouldn't normally assume?

K: It's hard because like, I feel like the pothead stereotype has kind of like disintegrated a little bit just because it's so normalized. Yeah. So that, I mean, you're right, there's more people like experiencing pot, like especially when they're like in cute little gummy bears. Like, what? Um, pretzels too. Yeah, pretzel ones. Yeah, yeah. But like, I don't think that there's a— yeah, there's an association with like, oh, you don't have your life together, blah blah blah.

Josh: So when do you—

L: I'll tell you though, like January when it just became legal recreationally in California. Only this year?

Tommy: 2019? Or so it's 2018 January, that's when it—

L: Yes, it was like a year, like almost 2 years ago.

Tommy: Any gronk can have it.

L: Yeah, any gronk down the street. Yeah, yeah. And then we— so we flew home after vacation, uh, in New Jersey, and then we get to California and I'm driving past MedMen, which is a shop that you guys went to, a very popular weed shop. It's like the Apple Store of pot.

Tommy: We'll do our live raid for MedMen in a moment.

L: And you drive past— I drove past it a line wrapped around the block like crazy. And I think that that was like kind of people's initial— like, it's, it's legal now, so everybody's really into it and wants to go and try it and get weed and like have the experience of it. But I think that for most people that don't smoke weed, um, they're not gonna go out of their way to get it. It's probably still for most people just gonna be an every once in a while thing. I don't think it's probably turned too many people over to like—

Josh: wait, so when do you do it? Like, do you find that it's like, okay, is it like, so I started, I've started drinking and it's like a red wine on a Friday night. Is something, is it doing edibles? Is it like a Sunday thing?

K: I feel like it's similar to what you're explaining, but correct me if you disagree. I feel like it's a wellness moment. Like it's your green juice, but not in the morning, but in the morning you might have it like anywhere else, maybe on the weekend.

Josh: Is this just the CBD or is this the, like, have you done the THC? THC. Which is like the bit that makes you all funny.

L: It's called DMT, I think, actually. No, we— say ABC. We— I mean, I don't smoke a whole lot. I think it's like whether you like doing it or not. And the difficult thing about marijuana is that you build up a tolerance to it. So I have like smoked frequently in the past, and like when you're smoking every day or maybe like 3 to 5 times a week, you build up a tolerance, but also like it's more enjoyable because you're used to it. But then like if you don't smoke much at all, and I— if I smoke like once every other month, you just get stoned. Yeah, and you can't handle it, and it's not a great experience. Not good. I don't love it. I don't know. I don't smoke much anymore.

Tommy: Do it consistently, consistently, it has a different feeling. Yeah, do it every now and then, you get too baked.

L: I prefer alcohol.

Tommy: I prefer— yeah, well, it's less intense. What about it? It's more casual. We had some gummies and these things look like little squares and we only took half, which was 5mg.

Josh: Because you were the experienced one, you felt that you needed to sort of be across the whole situation. I was looking after my babies.

Tommy: Yeah, I have my boys.

L: You need one responsible person in the room.

Josh: But that one shouldn't also be high, right?

Tommy: Yeah, because they say actually, I was doing I think Semirani is like the experienced one. Like, there should always be someone who's done it before so they get what the feeling is. You need to know how they're feeling.

K: You did some reading? You like prepared for this evening?

L: I read for my boys. What you expect me to be high?

Tommy: No, but so what you're explaining is like you don't— like there's something about the first time you do it and you're entering into this unusual world that you've never experienced these kind of feelings before, right? And so that can scare you. Like people can get fucking scared shitless.

Josh: I wasn't scared though. No, I know.

L: When your kid turns like 16 or 18, would you let them smoke weed and or would you do it with them? I don't know yet.

Tommy: See, I smoked too early weed with my mate's dad at like 12 or 13. Like, I would never do that.

L: It seems like a line.

Tommy: At 18, if it's legal, maybe, maybe.

L: There is something with the development of the brain though. Too, where you should be at a certain age before you do it.

Tommy: Oh, definitely. I mean, we're grown men doing edibles, you know. Yeah, for the first time for me in America.

L: I've definitely passed my peak. I'm not getting any smarter, so weed is definitely not gonna hurt me.

Josh: Is there something about— because I've, uh, I lent into it. So we were, uh, seeing people today and I was like telling them about the experience, and I was wondering, is it one of those things where some people could look down at it? Like, do you Do you feel that— is it something people hide, or could you talk to your employer if you're working somewhere and could just talk about it freely?

K: So what's interesting is when I have felt like looked down on, it's by other Australians who don't understand, who like haven't experienced the culture here that's adapted very quickly to embracing and normalizing.

Tommy: I can imagine. I reckon we'll look back on this and us doing it. We filmed us doing it last night, is it like it was a weird time. Like, this is still a weird thing. This is why we're so fascinated with it, because in Australia, the stoner mentality like that, what you're saying, this is—

K: they were actually actively trying to negate that when the laws switched. And you actually saw Mad Men, that store we were talking about before, actually putting up billboards where they cancelled out the word stoner. And they're like, it was like a really like—

Josh: Doner! We got you covered. Do they give you bonus? No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Tommy: They're just trying to put a new twist to it, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

K: No, it just became loner.

L: Um, and they, they replace it with like athlete or doctor, as in like they're trying to like say that like people just smoke weed and this doesn't define you.

Tommy: Oh, I think the police are here. That's so exciting. I think they, uh, oh my God, they're coming to arrest you for the video.

Josh: Oh my God. And so, um, when it comes to actually buying marijuana, what do you guys— and also like from a joint, like a couple experience, do you remember the first time you, uh, did gummies or something?

L: We're not like, we're not like stoners. We don't smoke a lot of weed. So like how many times have we gone? Like maybe 4, 4 or 5.

K: 4 or 5. I'm also really inexperienced. Like I would say like weed culture isn't very big in Australia, but there's like this—

Tommy: what is that? What does mom say back home?

L: Oh, she probably doesn't know. Hopefully she doesn't watch this.

Josh: Your mom watches anything that I'm in, so she's definitely gonna see it.

K: Didn't the ACT just make this legal? Yeah, yeah. Interesting. It'll be interesting to see how that turns.

L: Yeah, in like the Mad Men store, like there, I remember you got very excited about the one wall because it's all like different creative, like not the iPad stuff, but it's like different creative like drops and lollies, gummies, there's like 100 different variations.

K: It felt like I was in like an apothecary, like it was like, oh, this is so like, all this stuff is marketed in a way that—

L: yeah, and it's like stress relief.

Tommy: Yeah, they've done a good branding job. Yeah, like they've really done it.

Josh: The guy who was looking after us, he was like, now you need to set your own scene. Set your scene. Set your scene, like you're in control and all that sort of thing. And so like in the video of us, I was looking at it last last night, I was like, I think I've set the wrong scene. Because I was just like a bit like fucking not feeling it.

G: I need to reset.

Tommy: So yeah, the way it played out last night, for people following along, because we put up some Instagram storeys and people are very curious to know what happened. I had it and within 30 minutes I was laughing my ass off. Josh, on the other hand, stiffened up like a, like a, wooden board.

Josh: No, I was just, yeah, I was just arms crossed because I was like, okay, they're high, why aren't I high? But there was a funny moment where I sort of, where Mr. 97 was like, no, you are high, you are high. And then I was like, oh, I got really excited. I don't think I am. I am different.

Tommy: And then I, and so then I started getting like a bit paranoid that you were so transfixed on not being where we were that that was your high. I was like, you're so in that. It's like I was just transfixed on laughing, and then I got transfixed on you being so down about not being—

L: the way that I pull you out of your own—

Josh: because then you're like, oh my God, it's all my fault.

Tommy: No, no, no. I think it's— I don't think Josh is the right one for me to get high with, to be honest. Because I reckon I pulled him out and he pulled me out. And so I'm just like worried that Josh is like, he's actually losing.

Josh: Yeah, that's a terrible time. It ended in a fight where Tommy hid the gummies and I got very upset about it. I went to bed and then I got into FaceTime. I told Bree that I'm just, I'm actually fucking angry. And then Mr. 97 was going into bed too, and then I was just like, man, this just doesn't feel fair. And I felt like a bit sooky, and so I was like, oh no, you definitely— 97, like, you need to tell, like, tell me that this isn't fair.

Tommy: And so I'm in bed, and then I hear this on the floorboards walking, and then Mr. 97 opens the door. What did he say? He's like, man, Josh is really upset. He wants more. And I said, hang on, just before I said I was like, dude, don't you see that the fact he's so upset about not being where we are, you're creating a story, is the reason why he's actually really high? And then Mr. 97 was like, oh dude. It's like I was so convinced of it, and then I convinced him of that, and he's like, oh dude.

L: That is mind-blowing, because why, if you were sober, you just say, hey dude, I'm not high.

Josh: Yeah, I'm fucking going to bed, I'm tired. That's what I felt like I was doing. But the other thing I was, the other thing that I was trying was I was like, Chummy was sort of— it felt like Chummy was like, nah man, you're resisting, you're resisting. So then I was like being silly on purpose to try and put me in that state. So the guys were like, yeah, if you weren't high, why did you put a box, like a LaCroix box, on your head?

Tommy: I was like, I was trying to make you guys laugh. You were trying to do selfies with Mason and kiss him. Yeah, and I was like, dude, there's a line, and Josh usually comes to here, and then there's all these little things. And that's why it's like, it's not always the same for everyone.

L: I can't believe you guys are 30 years old.

George: Let's go back now to episode 426 with author and GoTo founder Zoe Foster-Blake. This is such an awesome chat. They talk about copywriting, business, branding, writing books, but we pick it up here where they're talking about her relatable content that she puts out. So, this is number 426. With Zoe Foster-Blake.

Tommy: My wife's comment about your content, because I asked her, she's not just coming to me. She says it's very—

Josh: it's a content meeting about Zoe.

Tommy: Yeah, we do. We do. It's a pre-show catch-up. She says it's very relatable. And I think that's from what it sounds like comes from you thinking about what is going on in your head and personally. And that's our best shot at relating with somebody else is talking about what's going on. For us, one of the most relatable pieces of content on your Instagram is your bit about cold sores. Oh, me? Yeah, I know. I grew up.

G: I've got no problem with being the cold sore queen.

Tommy: Oh my, I'll tell you who's the cold sore king. Michael Jackett, my brother. Oh, Jacko. Oh my God. Should see the family photo album. It's nearly every photo. The kids got a cold sore and I got them and I just, and this is so unrelatable for you, Josh, because you don't get that. He thinks it's just this, you know, the people that just do that to me with cold sores. Oh, you're disgusting.

G: Disgusting. So discriminatory. It's horrible.

Tommy: It is, but it's full on.

Josh: Like, anyone's got like a little pimple that I thought was a cold sore.

G: You know when people think they're getting a cold sore and you're like, oh, you'd know. Just in the corner of the mouth.

Tommy: No, you just— that's just your low end. Yeah, well, that's why I started having orange juice.

G: Do you know what you need to put on that, by the way? Because I was putting other things on it. You need to put a bit of cortisone, cortisol cream on there. On the corner? Because I was like, oh yeah, because you've got like— if you're eating bad food and you've got a deficiency, or unleaded petrol, I believe, helps. Oh, okay. But growing up, I remember it was such such a—

Tommy: I remember I wouldn't go to school because of cold sore.

G: It's funny. And then social death, it was the worst.

Tommy: As I've gotten older, I almost embrace them. If I get them, I'm like, whatever. He kisses me on the lips. That's too far. Mum used to kiss me on the lips because she knew that it would make me feel better. She's like, it's okay, darling, a little peck on the lips. I mean, so then that was a very relatable piece.

G: That's very sweet. Oh yeah. I mean, I, Yeah, they plagued my whole high school career and I had one for the Logies a few years ago. It's sort of my worst nightmare, that or a wedding day. And as most people know, now that we've talked about it, we're bound to get one. Yeah, I know how it works. Yeah, but I know what works because I unfortunately I live and I work in an industry where I'm not allowed to have a bad skin day. And people often if they meet me, they're like, oh, I did my makeup extra nice today. I was like, no, you look beautiful, but I know that you're scrutinising me because I'm the one who's going out there going, hey everyone, let's have great skin. So yeah, but I was just like, I don't have time for cold sores. I have to find a fix. And I do believe that I have. And I put it in highlights because everyone keeps asking about it.

Tommy: Yeah. I mean, that's just so gross. The fix being the Famvir tablets. Yeah, take the antiviral tablets ASAP.

G: Like I always have them on me and then the Compeed patches. Yeah. Don't take them off. Yeah. Just for shower, put them straight back on.

Tommy: Sorry, unrelated.

G: No, this is great. I'm so sorry to gross you out like this.

Josh: It is, people will want to know. They do, absolutely do. The, um, you were talking about the scrutiny of people looking at your face or whatever.

G: It's not scrutiny, scrutiny is too strong a word, but you know, I think that's what's going to happen if you put yourself out there. I did say that, I did say that. No, for me to have said it. But if you're going to put yourself out there and tell people what to do about with their lives and their skin in their face.

Tommy: Then yeah. It's the personal trainer, you know, that—

G: Yeah, exactly. Or the hairdresser.

Tommy: Yeah, the hairdresser. I mean, my hairdresser is bald.

Josh: Yeah. Or I mean, he's just gone.

G: I'm not dealing with this anymore.

Josh: It does take the pressure off, doesn't it? Well, there is something about— Is there anything in life that you typically undersell and overdeliver on? Like real, like, you know, it's a specific question, but I know when I was a kid as a freelancer, I was the hype king being like, mate, I'll have it to you Monday. And then Thursday I'm like, I fucked up. You know, I mean, Are you good with deadlines in that way?

G: Yeah. Well, to write a book, you have to be good at deadlines, although I mean, the stereotype is that we're not. And I'm one of those people who can have internal deadlines that I can stick to. And I've actually, for the first time in my life in 10, over 10 years, I've gone off contract with my books. And I did that deliberately because I wanted to write fiction again for the joy of it and the love of it with no marketing schedule in mind.

Josh: Is that an upholder? Is that what that makes you?

Mason: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I am.

Tommy: What's the value there so that you hold personally?

G: Does anyone know what that means? No. No.

Josh: It's the Four Tendencies by Gretchen Rubin. Is it Gretchen Rubin? Yeah. But I think it's like one of those things of I'm a— Obligator. Yeah. Yeah. I'm the one that like will do stuff. I'll say yes and then I'll get really annoyed about it and I'll push back on it, but then I'll do it anyway. I'll be annoyed.

G: I think that's called resentment. Resentment. Definitely a little bit of that.

Tommy: So for me, I think it's like, I don't like to say anything that I won't do.

G: And so, and then I feel like—

Tommy: That's a good thing to be. But what I realised in a business partnership is that's not Josh's value necessarily. We've all got our own set of values, right? And so it's like a partnership.

Josh: I pick my battles. Yes. Right.

G: He can't hear you. He's just there.

Tommy: What's a value that you hold true to yourself, Zoe?

G: I just think if you're going to do it, do it well. Do your best. And I have a hell no policy. So if it's a— sorry, a hell yes policy. So with my management, we get a lot of lovely opportunities in office and I'm pretty much like— and I can't remember who it was.

Josh: I think it was Derek Sivers talks about it. Yeah. From CD Baby.

G: Well, him. Yes. But then there's the 7. 7. So it was on another podcast, God knows which one, but they said, you know, think of this project out of a 1 to 10, but you're not allowed to use 7 and how much you want to do it. And then if you're an 8, it's a yes. If you're a 6, it's a no. I like that. Yeah.

Josh: Tim Ferriss talks about it. It's one of those—

G: But it's not his thing, but he talks about it. It's from someone else.

Josh: It's one of those. Yeah, it is. It's Kevin Kline. It's a very clever way of distinguishing like, yeah, the bullshit radar on things.

G: And it's your own bullshit radar. But I've got, since I've had children and I've got a business, I'm like, I just don't have spare time. So the projects have to be pretty amazing to do them.

Josh: Spare time and friendships and all that sort of thing. I feel like as I'm getting older, I can't tell whether it is productive or unproductive to become more insular or just like, yes, like I've got this dream.

Tommy: You think it's, oh no, I'm just understanding myself more.

Josh: Just deep work.

G: You can write whatever you want. Whatever narrative you want for it.

Josh: So I'm trying to work it. I mean, what is that? What's your relationship with that idea?

G: Heavy introvert and very fine with that. Married to a heavy extrovert. And we sometimes just have a little alignment of that because like he could work a monster week and his idea of relaxing after that would be to go out to dinner with 10 people. And mine would be put my soft clothes on and have a glass of wine and sit on the couch. And so I sometimes just go, hey, hey, you married a writer who lived by herself. Just remember who you married because that's who I am. But I am aware that I can become quite a hermit, particularly when I'm writing and just being with the kids and the family. And so I went to an event yesterday of a friend's product launch, which I never ever go to. And I always like sort of drag my feet. And then once I'm there and I get home, I made like, I got 3 amazing things happen. Like I was like looking for, you know, something and someone had a recommendation and I met a great person and I'm just like, I'm like, do that shit more. Like you have to connect sometimes and not just on Instagram, like real life people.

Tommy: So is it about pushing against what is natural to you? Like, you know, should the introvert be trying to be an extrovert?

G: But I can be, I think that we're all mixers, but I can be very extroverted, but I just, it's just how you work out.

J: But is it exhausting though?

Josh: Yeah. I guess like.

Tommy: One feels more comfy than the other.

Josh: Naturally, I think. You're an extrovert, TJ.

Tommy: Yeah, I'd say, but I reckon I've started to become more more since having a kid and doing— It's just called being tired. I'm just tired and I want to go to bed. But I definitely think, ah, I don't really want to, I'm focusing on this. And I got my wife and like that, that thought of getting home with my family is so lovely. Yeah.

G: And do that. But I think it's more, isn't it more how you recharge? Like that's the true definition of an intro and extro. I'm not sure. But you can go out and have an amazing day or time, but then you've got to, like, so if I do a day of press afterwards, I'm a shell. You can't talk because you've just given so much energy all day. And I think that's true of anybody. But yeah, I think it was a good reminder yesterday to sometimes just go, just get out there. Stop being such a home person.

Josh: Is it booking it in advance that gives you the anxiety, do you think? Like if you booked it out? I hate booking in advance.

G: Again, I don't know. It's probably Seth who says, you know, you can't book things that far out because you do. You look at your calendar and you're like, I don't have anything on in October. Of course I can do that. You get to October and you're very, very busy.

Josh: Well, I asked you about this, I think in May. So like I did my own trick on you. Busy.

Tommy: And we actually saw her walking past and grabbed her to come in.

G: But I'm much more likely to say yes that way.

Tommy: Oh, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then far out.

Josh: Yeah, it is because it's the anxiety. It's the thinking about it beforehand that sort of builds up. Yeah. But then there's also the other thing, which like there's a certain trait and probably Haim would be more likely to do it and Tommy would do it as well, which is just adding extra people to a dinner or something. Like, for instance, I'm like very funny with like, I did a world trip for 3 months with a mate and he did like that. He's like, more is better. Okay. And it was like, that's a nightmare. So it's like anyone, like if you, if you have someone, if you're inviting someone to dinner or whatever, it freaks me out if all of a sudden someone else has rocked up.

G: Yeah. I think in my heart I'm a rules and routine person and that That makes me nervous when I've booked a table for 4 and that they can only fit 4. And James was like, don't worry, they'll be fine. They'll just find another chair. And I always like it at the end. Yeah. I always enjoy it, but my brain resists anything that's outside of those.

Josh: So is the resisting productive in any way?

G: No, it's a total waste of energy. Surely there's—

Josh: I want it to be productive.

G: It's not stupid. So with all my worry and my parental anxiety, like it's bullshit. As soon as you have a kid, I was never an anxious person. Richest person. And now I'm one of those people.

Tommy: You can't survive if you were to be the kid, like how much ambiguity is, they're just running around next minute, they shout over there. Anyway, that's another story.

G: I was more thinking about them falling off the play thing. There's that too.

Tommy: Breaking their arm. There's that too. Hobbies, have you got any? And it can't be writing and it can't be—

G: I don't, that's not a hobby. That's absolutely not a hobby. It's work, but it's enjoyable work. Hobbies is such an '80s word. What does that even mean?

Tommy: Yeah, we actually looked it up, what hobbies meant. It's what you do in the time outside, your spare time. So it's, yeah, what are the things you do in your spare time?

G: Yeah, well, it's just being off. It's just having no plans. And like on the weekend, our family are just pretty much at home the whole time or together on bikes or, you know, going to have pancakes or something. We just go in. And I know that will change once the kids are doing sport and stuff like that. But we really love that stuff. And we see family and friends or whatever, but I don't like to lock in plans if I can. I do a tonne of reading because I think that makes you a better writer. Although it makes me jealous sometimes.

Josh: It's so fucking good. What is that feeling? Because I've, there's been a couple of times over the last few months where I caught myself feeling down on myself based on someone else's success. Yes. And I was like, and it was so, and the thing was that I was so happy for them. And it was such a reflection like, fucking idiot, why didn't you do this or that? I mean, so how do you, I mean, how do you reconcile those things?

G: I think inspiring, I remember when Haym and I saw Scott Pilgrim years ago and we both sat there just clenching the seat going, fuck, so good. And with a piece of art or a book or a TV show like Big Mouth, when we watched that, we're just like, oh, so good, or Russian Doll Euphoria, you know, an amazing TV show or whatever it is, I get inspired by that. And I think it's that so funny you don't laugh because you're just sitting there going, yeah, all right, this is great. This is going to make me lift my game. So I don't get down on myself. I just go, I'm going to need a new standard now. Yeah. And I honestly put myself in the most ridiculous company because I'm like, oh geez, Tina Fey is good. I should be better. Yeah. And it lifts me, makes me want to do better.

George: This is from episode 296. 296, the 3 Kilometre Club. Josh had the idea of setting up 3 people in a 3 kilometre radius with walkie-talkies to see if they could connect with each other. The thing is they actually recorded the whole episode beforehand and then lost it because Josh kicked the power cord out of the RODECaster. So, they have had to re-record it and this is the result. This is number 296.

Tommy: It's actually a great scene for the start of a horror film. Where he gets taken. Anyway, that went a bit dark.

Josh: Here we go. Hello, Tommy speaking. All right, Tommy, here we go.

Mason: I'm gonna, I'm gonna let you do the talking to Russ, okay? Can you break to him? Yeah.

Tommy: Russ, this is taking longer than I thought. Russ, hey mate, you there? Oh yeah, yeah, we've got some pretty sad news, mate. What's happened? Um, so you know that piece of gold that we created about 35 minutes ago where you managed to contact BK in Collingwood and you're in the CBD on a CB radio? Yeah, Josh actually knocked the power out and we lost the whole entire episode. Oh, you're joking. The disappointment's real, Russ. Josh is here with us.

Mason: Yeah, I'm currently on the 5th floor above the Bottle O, and so I thought that the only— with the sort of motto of always one-upping every episode, we need to be able to one-up now. So the only thing I could think of is 3-waying with you and BK right now, with me being at my place above the Bottle O and you being at the Telstra building. Are you okay? The frequency 16 is very, uh, uh, there's a lot going on. Yeah, do you mind going to, uh, number 7 please? Yeah, no worries. Yeah, perfect. All right, great. And in the meantime, uh, yeah, uh, be on standby and when you're ready just give us a, um, give us a radio check. No worries. Okay, great. Thanks, mate. All right, catch you up. Thanks, Russ. Um, Tommy? Yeah, mate? So we'll need to, um, we need to tell BK to get on Channel 7. There's a lot of logistics going on. Do you mind just, uh, messaging him and letting him know?

Tommy: Yeah, I can message him. Thank you. Um, great.

Mason: And so what was the date meant to be on Sunday? Uh, '97?

Josh: I was thinking like a little catch-up, uh, around coffee.

Tommy: Okay, yeah, just, just go, just go to like a coffee shop or something like that and get a hot chocolate.

George: I'd get hot chocolate anyway. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: How do you feel about getting a hot chocolate? That's fine. Yeah, yeah, it's fine.

Mason: Yeah, it's like having a sparkling water at a pub, do you reckon? Like a soda. Yeah, I think it's okay. Yeah. Okay, I think I'm just hearing something.

Tommy: Um, I've asked BK, I've texted him.

Mason: And said get on here. Radio check, please. Okay, this signal is amazing. This is better than ever. Uh, what's the weather like where you are?

Tommy: This is pretty poor signal on our end.

G: Spectacular.

Mason: A little bit overcast, a little bit overcast considering some of the hot days we've had, but it's just the way I like it. Over. Hey, Jeffy K, it's Davey Boy here. Could you actually go out of the train carriage or whatever and see if you can see me above the bottle-o? Over.

Tommy: Oh, he's waving to you. He's waving to you, Josh. I can see him. This is fucking perfect.

Mason: This is so good. This is better than what we had before, guys.

Josh: And what about Russ?

Tommy: We need to bring him into the equation.

Mason: Yeah, so could you imagine a line of sight like an internet connection? Like, it's perfect.

Tommy: It's a bit of an in-joke and an in-conversation, guys.

Josh: Yeah, Josh, absolutely.

Tommy: One suggestion, one suggestion, Josh. Keep the conversation very limited, just short.

Ryan: Russ is in.

Mason: How's the weather there, Russ?

G: Over.

Mason: What is the weather like, Russ? Over. BK, how are you feeling? We've done it all in between the time of 11 o'clock, before 11 o'clock. This feels like potentially the best show we've done. Um, uh, any other thoughts, Russ, to BK? As you know, you both listen to the show. Over. Thank you, uh, Russ. And maybe we could even— maybe you could you could speak to the friends at Telstra about hooking us up with, uh, some faster internet. Oh, that's good. Teleported. Uh, any— now I'm just going to quickly put, uh, Tommy on speaker. Tommy, when I say go, you can give— you can say anything to them over the thing, okay? All right, give me a second. Hang on. Are you ready, TJ? Yeah, I'm ready. Ready, 3, 2, go.

Tommy: Uh, yeah, g'day boys, um, could you tell Josh to return to nest?

George: That's all I got.

Mason: Can you repeat yourself, EK? Could you hear Tommy? Over.

Tommy: No, this is where it's fast going downhill now, Josh. Abort at the top.

Josh: Tommy, say something now. Say something now.

Tommy: Yep, guys, it has been great. Josh will be returning to nest. Thank you. Over.

Mason: Did you get that, boys? I'm very excited that, uh, I'm part of this experience. From the top of the bottle, my name is, uh, Baby Boy. And, uh, BK, if you could do your sign-off now, that'd be great. There we go, we've done it, guys. You've done it. Thank you. The 3 kilometers— I've done it. Thank you, Tommy.

Josh: Yeah, you've done it.

Mason: A massive achievement for everyone. Mainly through my logistics. Yeah, but thank you, Russ. Thank you, Telstra. Thank you, BK. And thank you, Collingwood. Yeah.

Tommy: And is that over to us, or are you still, still talking?

Mason: Uh, we're done now. We're done.

Tommy: All right, we'll just finish the episode with you on the rooftop via the phone.

Mason: Was that more than 7 minutes? Uh, dude, that's been 24 minutes.

Tommy: And time flies when you're having fun. And, um, potentially some of our worst podcasting to date.

George: Finish off the highlights. This is episode 455. It's Jack Post and Radio Mike from Release the Sounds performing their song Attached to String.

Ryan: Hey guys, are you ready? Yeah, yeah, I'm ready.

Radio: Hey guys, we're Release the Sounds, and yesterday we released our first single.

Tommy: We released this, our first sound, like the name of our band.

Josh: That's good.

Radio: Attached to string, and today we're doing a live acoustic version of it on the Daily Talk Show, which is this show that you're listening to. Take it away, Jack.

Josh: Well said, Mike.

Jack: I had a lovely evening, I walked you to your car. The next thing I know, you were leaning in and we kissed. I never get this far. I hold you close the moment last I touch your skin. But I went to run my hand through your hair and I noticed you were attached to string. You were a puppet this whole time. You were attached to string. You were a puppet this whole time. I think back to the meal we ate. I really should have noticed then. You were spilling food all down your top and knocking shit over with your arms flailing. But the way you looked at me with those unblinking eyes, you distracted me from my mum in the rafters of the restaurant. She was making your arms move, making your mouth chew, making your lips loving me, making me love you. You were a puppet this whole time, you were attached to string. You were a puppet this whole time. I don't care what they say, 'cause I love you. You're a puppet, I'm a boy, but together we are two.

Josh: I'll take you to the altar, you say "I do." Mom's pulling the strings, I'm kidding. Connecting with you. I love you.

Jack: Now we have a life together and we live down by the sea. Oh, you can't go in the water, but you can sit on the sand watching me. We have a beautiful I had a beautiful son, half puppet and half man. Though the kids at school liked to tease him sometimes for his puppet head and his human hands. But everything else was perfect, until my dad called me one day. He said, "Son, I'm sorry to tell you, but your mother passed away." I guess you didn't know what to say. 'Cause you didn't say a thing. I guess you didn't know what to do. 'Cause you completely stopped moving. You were a puppet this whole time, you were attached to string. You were a puppet this whole time, you were attached to string. You were a puppet this whole time.

Josh: Time.

Radio: Am I out of shot? Yeah, you are.