#444 – Tully Smyth On Social Squad, Psychologists & Grieving/
- September 3, 2019
Tully Smyth is at the forefront of the social media influencer industry. After becoming a household name through Big Brother in 2013, Tully has built a brand around her amazing honesty, and by unapologetically being herself.
Alongside raising awareness for dementia and mental health, Tully shares incredible stories of her relationship with reality TV and the seemingly insurmountable challenges she’s had to overcome since.
As of late, Tully has launched Social Squad, which shares the stories of amazing Australian women who are disrupting the media landscape.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show we discuss:
– Privacy, relationships and Big Brother
– The mental health of reality stars
– Tully’s Uber Eats orders
– Creative endeavours and career satisfaction
– The learnings from Tully’s new podcast, Social Squad
– Digital detoxes
– Experiencing her mother’s passing and funeral
Tully Smyth on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tee_smyth/
Email us: firstname.lastname@example.org
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
A conversation sometimes worth recording with mates Tommy Jackett & Josh Janssen. Each weekday, Tommy & Josh chat about life, creativity, business and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and friends of the show! This is The Daily Talk Show.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
It's a daily Talk Show Episode 444
guests in the studio Tully Smyth.
You've already laughed at the over the intro.
I wasn't born about it.
We should actually give a little bit of a one.
Yeah, it's I mean, you've got the headphones on, you're in the studio, how I
we I Well, we've all very close. I feel like we're really bonding just from the proximity of how it was sitting.
You talking about I realised
Oh, this is
what I've worked out early on is I would look at the video and I would for whatever reason Tommy always looks closer to the gas I want my shoulders don't feel it out. I don't want the audience to feel that. But literally the other day I was like, I was literally doing the podcast and I look back in the video what sort of report does it look like? It looks like I'm not even in the show. Yeah.
You smell and you're getting while they smell Yeah,
I mean how how conscious work you big brother days already fucking going there. It's great. Let's do it a conscious of that stuff. The of the cameras.
Do you know what the first day I was really conscious. I felt like I had to narrate what was happening. If I wasn't with anyone. I would like be walking around being like, now I'm going to put on my pyjamas. Then I'm gonna brush my teeth. I know why I was doing that. But I just felt like I needed to fill the silence with something.
Are you actually singing?
I was Well, that was me being awkward. I but I was speaking I was just sort of describing whatever I was going to be doing. Yeah. But there are cameras you can say and they're the ones you're really aware of. And then the bedroom is their account like cameras it sort of pivot and you can hear them Mike follow you you around which is really disconcerting, especially when it's just you in the room and you're just puttering around. It's like it's so and you can hear them breathing on you like in the walls with had his privacy seat with you. Ah, since the show. I didn't really give it I mean, once you've done a show like that. Yeah, it's funny, though. They will. It was, initially there was some people that had some issues, stuff like that. There's that first night when you had a few drinks, but it's time to go to bed and we're all kind of getting changed. And you're going to take your pyjamas and go to the bathroom to get changed. It feels silly, but you kind of you're all strangers. And so you're all in this small space and you're kind of like doing the whole leg trying to take your bra off from underneath the T shirt suddenly and but that that passes very quickly. Yeah, you just don't care anymore.
It comes to I guess it's like young kids in change rooms are always like, you know, I remember in school days. Now there's just all dudes walk around with a decal. Yeah,
you don't really? I think he just sort of realised that with sign up to do a show. We're being filmed. 24 seven? Yeah. So even if I was to take my pyjamas into the toilet cubicle, shut the door. There's a camera in there. You know, that's not what a hot was the uncut
during the time that you were doing?
No, there wasn't. And that played? That was a huge part of why great to the show. I don't think I would have done it. Had they been uncut. I used to be a big fan of unconscious. I know exactly. How new Do you get on that show and the thought of my brothers having to deal with that. And obviously now we're in an age where social media and YouTube, you've been Instagram to have nude videos of me sharing for the rest of my life. It's a bit much.
Did you have those thoughts? Like I mean, the platforms weren't really with me. No, no,
I definitely do. I definitely I knew that by not having uncut and also Channel Nine had made a big deal about them bringing the show back, you know, 10 and making it more family friendly. That's why I did so well that first season on Channel Nine. So and I'd watched that and made sure that I knew what the show was about and it was much more family friendly though taking it right back to its original sort of premise. So I knew that they wouldn't be showing me my EDK myself even the nights that we sort of had the party nights on a Friday where we got more alcohol that cut us off quite quickly so I knew that we useless to them they can't air footage of us swearing and stuff like that they just can't so basically all the best parts or the funniest stuff or the best storeys or the the racy stuff No one's ever seen
putting yourself in the shoes of the people that are now going into shows like maps. What do you think that what's the mindset there are outrageous those factors.
But it's also different base. It's not like you're just going into a house and I'm just gonna be myself It feels like you're
Yeah, I've often wondered how I would fare on the show where I have Cameron, a producer my face. It's so easy and a show like Big Brother where the cameras are mainly hidden to forget you're being filmed and to just be yourself. I don't know how I would go you know, if you and I were chatting and all of a sudden the camera crew popped up whether I'd sort of straighten my back and change what I was saying and I don't know how it go with a physical camera and a producer feeding me basically lines could
be good but Josh was call
back it all if it's all for posture. I mean we had we had Scott Pape the Barefoot investor in here Yeah, he's amazing. And we they had the fox tell crew documentary and there were you should have seen there was moments where the camera was like this up into my face and we just have to talk normally and you definitely there was a bit of a performance
and I even felt that in the show you know when you did feel those cameras on me like big you know because of my situation. There was a constant bedroom camera on my bed with my ex boyfriend drew and I could when I saw it facing us I was aware that it was facing us and even I remember being outside in the garden once and I was went up to the one way mirror and I was really close to it trying to get this like blackout on my face and I was like this close the camera and sort of you know have to get really close you can see kind of through them. I just saw this massive lens just
holy shit I'm like oh my god, there's someone literally like here at my face and I'm just like squeezing you slowly forgetting that it's that it's all being filled off for sure you definitely forget you forget really quickly
the love with Drew you know you've
got a love storey you know, it's one of the actually six this morning I went over to YouTube,
you watch a compilation.
It was not easy by the way.
Yeah, we speak really we speak regularly was fucking recently he good. He's doing good. He is finishing an accounting degree and he manages a bar inside the classic storey off the back of a highly successful reality show accounting into it. To his credit he has two degrees is also an engineer has an engineering degree.
I mean, you're smart as fact, that's one of the things I he's so much from when I met you. You can have preconceived ideas and Telly smart, but I think when I met you, I'm like wow, you really really smart, nothing else. But I think you're what you push out to the world, obviously is what people will give feedback on or taken and make a judgement or understanding of you.
The qualifications needed to be in a house is quite low. Right.
And I think it's interesting when I haven't watched the show back in its entirety. I've just watched little clips on YouTube or we're doing a marathon
I thought about that so many times when I've been like ill or you know come You know, hung over. Am I Is it is it time is it time, but I haven't had the guts to do it. Yeah,
turn off that trigger.
Hearing the theme song might seem kind of like rock back and forth in the corner bit. But no my two best friends the night I was evicted I said you know how did I go? What do you think? And they like it to be honest. The thing that really annoyed us was I just they didn't show how smart and funny you are. I just kind of showed either you crying or you making out with Jerome they were used to sort of things because I think the
you're entertaining is the one that they showed, right? But it's also doesn't mean you don't have depth. But it's just what they bring. And so there's people are enjoying this whole thing and your friends are going are the true teli I fucking know. Yeah, totally missing your whole point when
there's 21 people in there and it's the Shy Guys for an hour. You know, of course the bits they can use of me may having a tantrum or making out with someone. Why wouldn't you
so the love between you and your back? Well, I think about travelling right in the moments I've met a woman I've got a beautiful wife now and it's a good example. I won't get in trouble I met my wife it's either hit
it's this expensive origin of energy right? But there's it's like that's what I look for right that's what I've always looked for fireworks on Tinder eyeball And not only is it explosive. Just explain your experience now. Is it real? Like what you enjoy experience? Or is it just purely heightened and you actually get walk away from it go? Do you
know what I've thought about this so often over the years, I've gotten drunk and texted him being like, do you think that would be really was that? Was that a real? What do you think? It's hard to say? I don't know any different. You know, I I have been in love before. I've been in love with I mean I felt I was in love before I met you and I've been in love since and there is that, you know you do know what it feels like to fall in love. I just remember he came in a day late because he was like a surprise intruder with a fake wife, which I was the first to pick up on was definitely not real relationship. But the minute he walked in, I think you know the first night you get in there and I clocked everyone and I started everyone else. I'm good. No issues here. I've got this no
issues based on no one that you're attract. Yeah,
you know, my friends my friends said before I went in there like looking at they're just worried they know what I'm lacking. I am quite affectionate and I I'm at that point I'd been quite codependent, I've been in relationships my whole life. I just gone from one to the next to the next. And they were worried that I would struggle without my partner. And that that sort of like close person to lean on. And plus, I'm a Libra on the flat and 71 I clocked everyone that first night I was like normal, good, sweet. And then he walked in second day. And I was like, Oh, I'm in big trouble. Yeah, like big trouble. But he he really was for you know, initially they're my best friend. He was my rock my support. We really got each other on a level very early on, we both felt like we'd been miscast. Which sounds so funny now considering how much of a role we played in that series, but everyone was quiet. They're kind of show pony though. Loud, really in your face. And they all had a, you know, a really hectic backstory. And there was, you know, there was a miquela he was adopted and she was Asian. And you know, then there was team who was really out there. And then there was a guy was in the army and as a firefighter, and you know, Miss Universe chicken, we were like, we just we felt like we weren't performing. And so we'd sit in the corner and talk to each other about how he felt like we would, we will we will blame the producers down quite frankly, we were like we're not giving them what they want.
Little did we know we're giving them everything that they wanted, you know, it was more just like we just felt like we we weren't meant to be in there. Everyone was putting on this big show. And we were kind of like, uncomfortable.
You even found that the auditions, right?
Yes, I did. Yes. I I think I just think I'm too cold. I thought I was too cool. Yeah. Particularly so nice. Some of those challenges and stuff. They want us to dress up in overalls with him, right? A car wash. I was like, Oh, yeah,
basically, I remember doing drama school as a kid, and then play games. I'm like, I'm here to act. None of this fucking
It must have been obvious from the gecko, because I remember Alex and for doc is to produce. The night before we went into the house coming he came around to all of our hotel rooms and locked down to have one final chat with us. It was actually the chat where he was like, all right, seriously, now. Any skeletons in the closet? I need to know like, six types you've made, you know, times you've been arrested. And he even said to me, I remember he was like, Look, just do us a favour and just go with it. He was like just, you know, throw throw your role into this challenges. So I think he was kind of worried that I would maybe be too cool for school that ends up getting amongst it.
In 2019. What would be brother look like? Do you think it would be more vanilla? Or do you think it could be all on the internet live stream I have all the time?
Look, I know, I don't think they'll bring back uncut. We don't really have any shows like that. It's not really how we consume media or how we consume television these days. I think that social media would definitely play a bigger role in it, whether that means that you can live evict people live voting, you know, use a hashtag to a challenge or put two people in a room together. They'd be a lot more interactions using social media for sure. But I think that what big brother do well, and what they figured out when they brought it back is just sticking to the original format. At the end of the day, in a world where we're so inundated, you know, the market is so saturated with so many different TV programmes. I think bringing it back to basics like Big Brother does is what's going to make it a success again,
we've got a close friend of the show, scooter Derek who is obsessed with big brother has and was part of forums and like, flew up to the Gold Coast to see the live show.
He just loved what he was the the computer like would stream and watch it and all that sort of like that.
He's a fan, right? And so how do you I mean being on there, what's your take on what it creates in people what it brings out in people it's like, brings that real punter mentality.
I was the same thing. You know, I think it's really funny when people say oh, never watch the sharp. Yeah, you did. I was I was a huge fan of the show. Same thing. I remember originally they had david they had a DVD that I had they had a weekly very seemed like a weekly magazine. At one point housemates faces are on spreadsheets like I had it all I bought, I bought into it. I loved it. I think with a show like the brother what makes it unique and what makes maybe people still want to be on the street and ask or feel like they're my friend. It's just the fact that you honestly watching us live our lives. So we do feel like a friend by the end of the day. You know, you watch us get up you just go to the gym. You watch us eat a bowl of cereal, there isn't Yes, we have weekly challenges but they mainly for the entertainment of you guys. There's no sort of you really see.
What's that? What is it now then for you that? Because I don't I don't know a thing. What What has the craziness around them? Like the old school, old school reality shows like what he's creating?
Because it's mainstream, isn't it? I went down a rabbit hole of montage is on the weekend because I watched Saturday night row. I was like,
and I remember the two episode
before it was being Can I predict?
I think it's got the record for like quickest
really departure TV's
a bad time right now.
But I went through and I've watched the monitor, I watched the 2004 montage of rove. And I was like, Am I because I had it in my head. It was such a great show that I love watching. Yeah. And I went back I was like, No, this is fucking brilliant. And I was even him having hard conversations with big brother like where he was actually like calling people out and stuff. So what are you into then? Now that's have a similar What can you draw the similar experience to you loving Big brother. I mean, I
still have a reality TV fanatic. You're not going to pretend that I'm not I want you to all I watch overseas versions. Again, there I just, there's nothing like it. There really isn't there isn't anything I think probably love Ireland, to me feels like the closest thing to Big Brother. Because apart from trying to fall in love. You just watch them live their lives in one house. That's the closest show to this. That's the closest format I think to Big Brother. And that's the show that I feel like resonates most with me and my experiences. shows like and again, hidden camera show shows like married at first sight and the Bachelor. I just, it just feels so manufactured these days. And you know, I've heard that with this next season that they're trying to cost men who would agree on camera to be set up with a transgender person. So it's only going to push the envelope even more. And the mother handed me the sort of the matriarch of reality TV and social media just really panics with these young people that I got on the show.
Do you remember the show? It was Miriam. And it was
recently that said,
a transgender woman who all these men were vying for because she was she was beautiful action lawsuit and then surprise guys, the guy
the winner actually went on the holiday with her so the prize was if he decided to stay with her after finding out she actually had a penis prize is a holiday and the he actually went on a holiday with her I probably just to save face
to face a trip to face
to join the lawsuit with everybody else's on the show.
So yeah, I mean, but she
was in also on Big Brother by the way. I really wasn't she was an intruder on fixes as he was a big brother. Oh, that's right.
Is that like is that transphobic? Is them like doing it as a big reveal?
This was very early on. Yeah. That would absolutely not fly these days. Absolutely.
What's the deal with cash when it comes to these reality shows? Like, do you get a certain amount every day that you're on?
Yeah, you get a weekly allowance, but it's not a lot. Basically how they pitch it to you is the end of the day even though I never saw it as I probably should have thought more about it. But end of the day you're vying for a cash prize. It's a reality TV show. But it's also you know, a competition.
free rent as
well. Yeah. Well, no, it's not free because you still paying rent outside?
Oh, yeah, sure. So you can even get your late Yeah.
So they see it, they don't see it as you making money. It's on a job. You're trying to win the money. So they still want you to break even. So I think was like 500 bucks a week, which at the time my rent was to 90 a week. Doesn't plus you got bills, you know, it doesn't leave a lot, especially if you've got you know, we had a mom in there with two kids. And I'm sure a mortgage on a lot.
Yeah. So it's been it's making the decision, whether it's viable or not. I think it's highly
and it's not viable for some people. Yeah, it's not and you know, and then you've got to handle it all. You've got to hand the finances over to someone trusted. So I had to give my ex access to my bank accounts or my bank net banking, passwords. You have to sort all the direct debits out.
What did you do when you started kissing? drew? Sure, he
was a shame. I was post No, no, no, pray, pray. I didn't go down. Well, no, no, she didn't drain my bank accounts, which was nice of her great woman. Yeah. But she yet became really awkward. And I remember thinking at the house, and I remember thinking, Oh, she's in charge of all my money right now. Oh,
how much did they set because I had a vision of what happened Big brother and then watching the montage is and I saw how much like the producers are setting up like there's a bit worse on your crew goes on the seat talking to drew and said, What would you say? What would you say if Kelly was here right now? He's like I you know, I probably kisser and say hello. It's like, wow, turn around. It's like it's a little bit tacky. But
I knew that was gonna happen. So that was basically once I got out and assess the damage and decided I wanted to be with him.
You sound like a panel beta.
Now the damage was extended. The car was arrived.
yet? Well, they were really gentle with me on my eviction night. I think they were worried that I would lose my marbles. But I was brought back I was brought back into the show onto that stage or into the show three times after being evicted, which is just never happened. The first time was for an ass Tommy segment where everyone could tweet questions that they weren't able to ask me on my Not that I was evicted. So I went back I had a q&a with Sonia. Then I was brought back into the house for the phrase challenge to let him know that I was single. We both tell
you, hey, we want you to go in and say
call me Alex called me and said hey, so I've got a proposition for you. And I said yes, shoes. Keep in mind at this point, I was pretty alone out here. I had been dealing with the backlash on my honour, and my girlfriend had left me with my dog. I was taking off the financial like I was
at he took the dog or you you kept the dog.
We were sharing custody, but I wasn't gonna be like, Hey, I fucked up your life. Also give me the dog. Yeah, sure. It was at least I could do.
It's interesting. I mean, I'm not that much of a dog person. So that's almost a convict would be who keeps the dog? Like, I'm not happy with that?
Well, the dogs, the dogs, I mean, legally my name. But again, I think I've done enough damage.
Sorry, it gets lost or whatever. And they check the chip. Yeah.
I didn't know that. When you buy a dog. You have to like register it to somebody. We've really taken me I'm sorry, sorry. Yeah, he called me and he said, Look, you've got a proposition for you. And at this point, I was I was really missing him. And I was watching every night and it was really hard to watch. You know, my one thing support network through a screen. He said, Do you know would you want to go back into the house for a challenge? And I said, Yeah, but he before he even explained what he want me to do is like, Yes, I mean, absolutely. And he said, we're doing this phrase challenge where big brother is going to, you know, say phrase throughout the week, and they have to stop whatever they're doing. And we're going to throw in a bunch of distractions to try and get them to unfreeze. We want to send you over this
Yeah, right TV the montage
right TV nice and nice. They said we want you to go in and tell George you're single and try and get him to break the phrase. And I would have said yes anything if it meant me saying him again. So yeah, that was interesting. And then basically every time he was up for eviction, which was frequently I was flying up to the Gold Coast in case he was evicted which was really taxing on me at the time you know just build up knock that down build up let down build up let down so I knew that they were going to have a big onstage reunion I knew that was going to happen they were always going to make the most of that
what do you think of the Gold Coast? What's your relationship
I lost the Gold Coast It was my home for a long time and you know you do a lot of stuff pre and post so I was there for a while I love the Goldie I must I'm still a big time celebrity up there they still love me so it's so nice or a very soon out there
the I like to I would think I would hope that these reality shows are doing their due diligence when it comes to people's mental states right and so you're thinking you're talking about you're out you're feeling alone like are they actually looking and I think about the shit written about these math stars these girls losing their shit they put on all these white is I yeah it's because they're probably fucking going crazy yeah
yeah there's definitely not enough done I've spoken out about that in recent months when you know we had the second love Island UK suicide the definitely is enough being done they offer you sort of the bare minimum they say you know you get a chat with the the show psychologist when you first get evicted he's the first person you speak to and then he maybe gives you a cold check in a couple of weeks light up but even then you know you're basically talking to a puppet of the network you don't really feel like you know, you sort of you try and say you know I'm feeling this way way You know, people talk me on the straight and he kind of just make sure that you're you steer the conversation the blame away from the show on the network. So you don't even feel like you know, I eventually put my hand up and said I'm going to find a separate unit my own psychologist and yoga you guys gonna pay for it? Did they had to but there was definitely not enough support there is enough support that needs to be compulsory check ins you know, weekly and then monthly and then six monthly and then yearly. The needs to be a lot more done for mental health needs to be media training, you know, so that they can handle these interviews. They can handle social media, they know what to do when they're being trolled. There still definitely isn't enough to be being done in terms of looking after the lessons post show.
What happens when you come out of the Big Brother house. Like people you went to school with you get like Random
House we were like who's gonna come crawling back? There were douche bags of a boys I was obsessed with in high school. It gave me doughnuts that was suddenly blowing up my Facebook inbox.
is a Facebook back then you
Yeah, they went my dams yet. Yeah, a lot of a lot of people from high school boys that I was obsessed with girls, that would mean to meet school. people claiming to be you know, the best met a guy that you worked with that matters when you were 14 claiming to be your best mate. Yeah, there's a lot of that happening.
And did you were actually spark any new friendships from that? Like, were you actually was any of them? legitimate? I mean,
I think you know, there are people that you reconnect to me then that you see going out a lot more, you know, I was obviously going out to a lot of events and parties and I was sort of reconnecting with people on that level. But I was just so acutely aware, like it's so transparent when that happens and and I'm like, if you went my friend, you know, six months ago, you're not my friend now. Yes, it's it's where it's so obvious what what they're doing that makes sense. And all the sudden everyone you know, everyone that has a clothing line or a jewellery brand, brand, want to send you something in your life.
Like at the beginning, was it like people sending you should like directly to you how
I was in sight, and I was so what happened? Like it? I mean, it was it was such a new x. I was like, What do you mean, this is all for free? Like, this is all mine. And like it was bananas. I remember feeling a lot of pressure, though to to wear everything. You know, I change outfits four times a day just to try and get everything, you know, some air time. But yeah, if my door and there'd be piles and piles of packages, and I was posting all this stuff for free. And it wasn't until Roxy de cinco actually reached out to me and said, you know, you can be making money from this, and I can help you do it.
That I 50%.
Yeah, and terrifying at the same time. Yeah, it wasn't until she reached out and sort of said, you know, you can be turning this into a bit of a business that I haven't thought to do that either. I was just psyched for the freebies, what did you have?
What was the plan, when you were leaving? What were you going to do? Like what was because you were doing like social media
advertising, I knew I didn't want to go back to that you're all kind of told to take you know, there's, there's sort of a procedure you supposed to do before you go on a show like that you can't tell you bosses what you do, especially if you work in media, because the chances of getting out just too high. And if it does get out there just drop you and get a replacement, or you've already put so much on the line. It's kind of like the worst case scenario. So you're instructed to take as much labour as you can. So as much as you've got, you know, you know, owed to you. So I took four weeks leave, secretly was working on a hand over guide, you know, after hours to leave behind it was the actual role.
What were you doing
as a social media strategist? So I had quite a few clients and I was working in quite a big agency, and it was still early days for that stuff. So it was a lot of IP that I had to leave behind. It wasn't like I was encountering a manager and I could just pass on to another hat manager or I was a bartender like just replace him not the bartender. A lot of what I was doing, you know, it was up in my brain and it was hard to explain to people that do not understand it and it was very early days so I was secretly working away at this handover to leave to the poor person had to step into my shoes. But I knew I didn't want to go back to that I didn't love it. I was inherently good at it. I was very good at my job but I just didn't love it. It wasn't creative enough for me.
So when did your bosses find out?
So then yeah, so you take leave so I said I was going to visit my brother in London, which was true. He was in London. I just didn't go there. And then you write a letter to a boss apologising, explaining you know hey, this situation I wasn't able to tell you obviously I'd love to come back to my position but I understand if you have to replace me and then you give it to the producers and they posted out the night before the show goes to air wow bizarre I had it did not go down well, really. Even even more funny was the fact that I was supposed to get split in the grass that that weekend and my ex girlfriend came with me to lock down you can bring one loved one. She came with me and then left midway through the week to go to splendour which in hindsight we should have been done to it. But I said Go go go but she was making up a lot of our friends and they'd none of them were allowed to know so for that splinter weekend she can slip up into my mate to be like where's Holly signal? She just went to the bar so she was lying my friends that whole weekend pretending that they're just miss me for an entire weekend until the show Adams Sunday night So
did you then have conversations with the bossy get out like is there any damage control?
Yeah, I think if I had I wanted the other thing is you don't know whether when you been victim Yeah, I could have been back a week later I can have all quit and I would have probably wanted to go straight back into work. So I you know, you just don't know so I knew that when I but when I was evicted I knew I didn't want to go back to my job so I didn't even bother reaching out and being like hey, so about that job Did
you hear that? It didn't go well.
I had friends that I was working with who obviously when they found out was on the show reached out and were like oh my god what the hell like we just saw you on the TV. And I just heard that Yeah, I kind of left them in the lurch a bit late struggled to replace me because I you know I'm irreplaceable.
So left hand over done
extensive I didn't contact Kurt I think I left them with like four months worth of content. So
building an audience I think there's a bunch of stuff you learn over time you came out these instant audience has been Yeah, what's saying what's the learnings from having an instant audio I
don't think there are a lot you know, I'm often quick to give I'll have a lot of friends who are influencers and bloggers who have built an audience bigger than mine from nothing, just from creating great content, or you know, taking the time out to upload some beautiful content to their blogs,
which is where you learn right you learning about
also just like the fact that you've grown up from nothing, you know, giving them what they want that to me is so impressive. I literally went into a house and came out and I had it like that. It has been hard work keeping them and obviously you know, that's that's a job in itself. But there I don't think there are a lot of learnings I think that I'm a very different influencer and blogger to a lot of my friends. People don't let me for beautifully created content. You know, I think a few years back I was sort of testing the waters and trying a few new things and you know, I put money towards getting an actual photographer and getting a stylist and doing you know, street style shoots that bombed. I don't want to say that they want to see a selfie of me. They really are following me to see what I'm up to. They're not following me to see what I'm wearing. It's mainly just what I'm getting up to in my life. So I haven't really been able to figure out what you know, I haven't really got a strategy to my Instagram I just I'm doing it's all real time It's all I hate having to post things like if I can't post immediately I get really like antsy cuz I'd like it to be what I'm up to that day.
I think we all try to make sense of it. So you you in the role as a social media strategist is having this sort of bird's eye view.
I can even use hashtags like I look after a few social media accounts for other brands on the slot like on the flat
on the slide on the slow
secret no one knows on the side. Yeah, it's like a side hustle and I use hashtags for them because they're important but I don't even use them for myself and why
why is it we always we know what we need to do but we don't do what we know right?
I think because I've really it's not my party I really don't want you know when when they took away our likes and everyone was panicked about it people ask me you know what do you think about it? I don't give a shit like I've never cared about how many likes comments I get anyway the the stuff that I care about the conversations that really means something to me I what happens in my dams and and no one's privy to that and it's you know, that's a number that shut in my account so I don't really care me likes the comments. I get on my photos.
What do you think about the personal rebrand I've had a few re brands
I need to rebrand it
was actually a video series that I wanted to do where it's like taken individually it's almost like the New Age like Queer Eye for the straight guy
to this day, in my opinion has had the best had the best rebranding. Lara Bingo.
That chick from granola with that terrible reality TV show who no one respected it was busted with random football or whatever wherever the hell he was in the bathroom or in the shower, whatever.
So Brendan, is it really to branding you realise it
to you know, the super chic Harper's Bazaar cover go with a Hollywood husband very private life and two kids. You know, I'm still to this day blown away by Hubbard rebranding.
I mean today's rebrand for Josh is the moustache.
Yeah this is new it's it's killing me the shit to be honest. But I mean what would be like How many times have you thought about doing a rebrand
my not my management now but my management before my management now wanted me to do a rebrand they wanted me to dye my hair Brown. And you know completely change who I am. I think that
once I put like,
from a personal rebrand point of view, like I don't know how
because I was you know, I'm still called the brothers bad girl and and you know, there is still sort of those headlines. I mean, Mr. 97 called you that when
you walked in
big brother's back out with a Apple assets I always be my apple assets always referred to as well,
ample assets. And that's like, who's read Daily Mail
teli slideshows off her Apple assets in tiny black bikini? Well, they was called me curvy. I got really panicked to my wife. Does that mean that I'm putting away What does that mean? What's KV mean?
You living your life through Daily Mail? Yeah, descriptions of you. You fucking better think twice got
the longest headlines in the biggest
describe in detail what I'm wearing. Yeah,
yeah. And so the brunette obviously that's a very slight from a rebranding perspective.
I would argue that so that's a definite I'm trying to rebrand myself.
97 you still have brown
with that Justin Timberlake.
Right. You want to lie? One of the best colorists in Melbourne.
She she did these hair. So basically it's like yellowish
like Maggi noodles.
But yeah, when he walked out of Joey's candies, I was so on. It was looking Chris a million bucks. I can
give you a great pepper shampoo. Right?
Anyway, so he's had the he had the the right brand. But what is the more internally you have their moments of change that you think I'm going to stop
your physical appearance, but you can also
definitely, definitely, I think, I think I went through a bad relationship breakdown a few years back, and it completely turned. It was you know, social media played a role in the breakdown. And it made me reassess what I was doing and who I wanted to be and how I was putting out there. And I kind of decided that I was going to start using my platform to talk about things that mattered to me more, I was going to be more open and honest and transparent. And I spoke about more about my anxiety, my mental health in general, when I spoke more about my down days, I felt more about my mom and her battle with dementia, there was definitely a shift back then. And that's been really well received with my followers, that content is always What does way better than me in a bikini with my ample assets.
So you're talking about the stuff that's there already, that you're just now bringing to the fore.
Felt like, people wouldn't be interested unless it was shiny and pretty. And I had my tits out. I think that was my understanding. And then I, I thought, even if that is the case, it's not sitting there with me anymore. I'm not sleeping well at night with what I'm putting out there. So even if it was just even it was going to bomb but it made me feel better at what I was doing. I wanted to do it. And it I've just been lucky in that it's resonated really well with my following and that people seem to appreciate me being transparent and you know, relatable and flawed.
I mean, your sexuality shifting or I don't I don't know why didn't even
know I had a girlfriend.
I thought it was the other way. I thought you came out and then you gotta go. No, but you gotta go for it. Make sense? I mean, that's a that's a shift. I don't know. I've never been through that.
Even though that's a complete one. It that's like a yet that was a really sensitive detail. It was a really crazy time in my life. And it's something that I've tried to figure out since then with different psychologists, because I will not understand what the fuck happened. You
posted a having an understand No, I have no
idea. And I've also been told by many people that it doesn't like why does it matter? It's it's just nice to understand. I'd like to understand what what happened where I've come from where I'm going, why that all, you know, transpired. But yeah, that was a huge shift. I mean, I went from being having a partner and dating girls predominantly, for six years, which is not you know, he was it was a phase six is a long phase. And these were like two, three relationships. I lived with my partners, you know, we had dogs, it wasn't like, I was just going out to a nightclub making it with a girl and going home being like, whoo, like, these were long term, serious relationships, adult relationships. So yeah, I know, and I was quite big in the, in the lesbian scene in Sydney, you know, a friend of mine, man, monthly parties, my ex girlfriend was a DJ, you know, we will quiet out and about. And then so to come out of the house and not fit into that anymore. It was it was really, it was really confusing time. Sure.
How do you find a good psychologist?
It takes it takes time. And I it, it frustrates me, it makes me upset because it is a barrier for people, I think that, you know, it takes so much to get someone to agree to go to JP to get a referral and to find a psychologist and to go to the appointment that already takes so much, much admin, it's a lot of things. But also, it's scary when you're already feeling overwhelmed with anxiety, or depression, or whatever it is. That's like, what that's like three appointments, it seems like it's too much work. And because
then also, when you're not feeling great you like, rather than doing that I can actually do these other three things. I know I can just go for a walk and eat better
than to find someone and then to spend the first hour, you know, just barely breaking the surface on your storey. And that did not feel like you understood, and then maybe have to go to that all over again, with someone new and still, you know, it's a process. So
what is it? Like? Do you go in there? And then do they just? Do you try and give as much context?
Yeah, I mean, first of all, I would always recommend if you know, someone who's already seeing one thing I think or for, you know, word of mouth is always a great starting point. If you've got a friend who you like and you think it's on the same wavelength through seeing someone great, ask them then the name, that it's also strictly confidential. Don't ever feel like they're going to be talking about you behind your back. It never is the case. So I would think that what if you know, my friend is going to be telling him, you know, all my issues and childhood traumas. And but then I think, you know, once you get in there, depending on how you feeling at the time, it might just be a general checkup where you do sort of the beginning. You know, when I was five, this happened to me, or I've gone when I've had something that's quite pressing and quite debilitating. And I've just walked in there and God and just blurted out what was happening at that very moment. Yeah.
It's just, it's all about you and what you need it you know, it's
so interesting, because I even my girlfriend, psychologist, she really, like I assumed that all psychologists are like I you know, or whatever. But like Bry psychologists will even be like, Nah, fuck that person. They sound like I'm like, I can get around that if it's just a bit of a pitch session.
It depends what you need. I think that if if you need someone is on kind of on your level, like I've always preferred female psychologist, I also have found over the years that if I don't know anything about Big Brother reality TV, it's not gonna work. They'd have some kind of understand what what that would be like to go through that, you know, someone's like, I don't watch TV. I'm like, this isn't gonna work. Um, but yeah, I definitely think that if you need someone to be like, Oh, you know, he sounds like a fucking douche bag. You need someone to sort of be able to say that to you. But then I've got friends who are from, you know, quite traditional background, their parents adopters, and she prefers the sort of cold, you know, mythology, you know, she prefers that sort of, so it just, it's what you need from somebody.
It's like a book What? You know, there's so many different types of books that you can read that might not connect with your same point, but later down the track, you ready and you like, Fuck,
any dry, you know, if you might need tough love, I personally don't react well to tough love. So if someone's telling me to put my shit together, and you know, do better next time, it's just not going to work. So it's just about figuring out what you need.
Do you actually say that? Like, if you're working with a psychologist that it's not going well? Would you GY like call it out?
When you're getting a haircut and you look in the mirror and it's terrible, but you just panicked. And you're like, I love it. It's great. And then you go home and cry. And you know, you just get to the first hour you paid in a trillion dollars and then you just vowed never go back.
Yeah, I did see on the shameless community Bry was showing me there was that whole thing of you know, he can get the 10 free?
Yes. Especially health care
plan. Did you hear about I saw that there was something around like, people use it like food insurances or whatever in the
streets of its Yeah, yeah, that's which makes me want to talk about that. Because I feel like that's just going to scare people are seeking help. But yeah, it's a bit backwards that the government offer this amazing health care plan where you can get 10 subsidiser, subsidise some subsidise appointment to the psychologist, but you then therefore, have a record as needing mental health. And if you go, for instance, I've got a friend who's trying to get into police force at the moment and he was struggling and I said, you know, you need to go speak to someone who's like I can't, it's going to affect my application. So that's pretty terrifying.
One way to stigmatise something that's
I think that if you go into the police force, you should be a requirement that you see a psychologist regularly.
It's almost like going to a PT or something, right? Yes,
yeah, these people are dealing with a lot of trauma every day. And I think that that might be a better place offices if they were talking to someone about it regularly. But I think
like yesterday's episode, we're talking about the human experience being one where there's struggles, and there's great times and there's that feeling of fucking calmness, and in the creative endeavours, it's like,
I don't know, if I've experienced much of that. I
know, it sounds like heaven. Maybe sometimes you can find it. But living in that space entirely, is probably is not the human experience. Right. So we're talking around creativity and a creative endeavour to make money from and you living in this kind of like, you know, ebbs and flows. Like when are you making your next paycheck?
Yeah, that's what I hate about this job. It's very stressful not knowing, you know, it's such a, I don't know, I don't know what I mean, paid next. I was
just thinking of stress and anxiety, you know, I feel stressed and anxious.
And so how you living with that as a creative?
Well, yeah, I mean, it's, it's super stressful. Like, that adds so much a whole other layer to it, you know, not being able to sort of plan or, or even know when it's coming in. It's, it's one of the worst parts about doing what I do. It's funny because people talk about how, you know, not every day is the same, like, who knows where I'll be next week. And like, that's great and fun, and that is fun and great. But it also means you know, when you're being paid next year, and so in terms of like, even just organising a direct debit, like when I joined up at my gym, and they asked me to pick a date habit to have it be direct in my account, I was like,
I don't know it's a safe day, like
any point in time, the fifth day, halfway through the month maybe try that same I goes, and you know, to be completely transparent. I've gotten text messages being like, hey, this letting you know your payments bounced. It's tricky. I don't have a any savings. I'm really Burt.
So what is your relationship with money when you like filter yard? Yeah, what? what do you what do you spend your money on?
You see, that's the it's tricky. Um, I think it's more a case of because it is. It is hard to plan and save. Just want to get a little nest egg together. I'll have a quiet month and I'm having to aim to that for stuff like rent you know, and find deals ridiculous data allowances.
Not It feels like it's going down in price or I can
blame I didn't do is through the roof
Really? All the time. I feel like it should be our can wait because you pay like a lot. You pay like 170 300
for the artefacts like a good mouth. These are real scumbag nature to these phone companies. My my wife is paying $149 and she's got half the data I've got no she doesn't get to keep your phone at the end. So fucking company. Why you doing that? It's a
complete role. Have you tried going into addressing that? I've asked
her I said it makes me stressed out. Listen to me. I know. I know. I'm like, please, can you deal with it? I've got too much
feels like it's getting to a point where the data is shaping
me Eric is a different point where I'm having to tether off my phone in my bedroom. Because our Wi Fi in the house is so fucking slow. Yeah,
well, that's a whole nother thing. Because I had NBA.
Do we have?
I had 200 megabits up and down at my house. It was like a commercial grade line. It was amazing. But then realised that probably you didn't.
I don't I can't if I want to stream something from my bedroom. It's quick. It's a Tesla. Yeah.
It's crazy, isn't it that the hasn't developed.
But then so this is your business. And it is save your claim that on taxes it costs you then it's important, like it's an important thing you need it running operating costs of a business to use. Do you see your thing? Your whole, you know, thing that you do as a business that you're looking at it like that?
Not really, I probably should do that more. I think you guys both know Jen, my manager. She's great. And she's kind of like my little voice of reason Angel on my shoulder and then on my own devil. She's like, You know why? You know? She's so funny. She's like, qubit withhold some of your pay every time you get paid, like save it for you. Because like that's how bad you are saving. It's like that is not responsibility. Jenny, not my accountant.
please. To be clear, the accountants don't do that either.
She knows how bad I am with money that is pay you half of this paycheck and I'll keep the other half already. That is it. Yeah, that is I've still got my fighters on the ground icon right yet. Yeah, it breaks is definitely one of them. I want
you to order
because I show you how many times have ordered from McDonalds.
from Mac is
it seven times?
Really? What do you get?
Depends on the snack. If I'm hungover or drunk, it's a medium Quarter Pounder meal. I need that juicy juicy. dribbles out the oil. Yeah, it's like a I'm a bit of a grazer. I like eight meals a day but they're all small. If it's like before an event and I'm peckish but like I don't want to eat before the event is gonna be food there. Like a sneaky cheese okay. Or even like a happy meal. Sam's the toy you finish
the whole thing if you grazing?
Yeah, I don't eat the chippies but I yeah the whole cheese but I mean something yeah me yes I Can I order I think my my limit my sorry my record was five orders in one
day. Oh wow. So that's what gets you isn't it if you can try and I like to treat my operators like a Costco water. Just fucking get as much as possible.
Yeah, no meal big changes coming
up. I think that day I come home at four which is it late night for these days and then order the kebab at 4am before I am eating that speed that back up a couple of hours later when reordered the same kebabs at 11am on ate it again. Didn't feel that one that was hungry again got KFC then I got something to do. I'm gonna got a dessert delivered to me something that was
my best to be honest. I've got a two and a half year old I think about if I was
old enough to be married all have a two and a half.
Look. Thank you.
You probably are younger than me.
3132 next month 8787. Yeah.
I would be worried if I was if I had a son talking about financial financial situations like this. I know you speak very fondly of your dad. We filmed the milkshake quit asking for a friend questions and I love you. I was a bit drunk.
Could you tell? No. I mean, you were very happy to be there.
I perform I like performing anyway, that wasn't that wasn't why I know. So I come from an event at lunchtime event and I was really nervous because of who was attending the event. And who I was sitting next to and so I had one too many drinks so they had to come and do that. And I was
fine. Because you were talking about you dead. fondly. What does dad think about I guess this aspect of
Yeah, dad. I mean, bless you cotton socks. Phil Smith is just such a such an angel. I can really do no wrong in his eyes. I've done some dumb shit. And he's still supporting me. 110% so dead for your height. Yeah, I remember coming out of Big brother and seeing him and said I just I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. If I embarrassed you if I let you down and he was like pumpkin. You know you are yourself. That's all I can ask for. And then I said did you get to see my tits? You guys know I didn't see your tips. I like to find out what he did see? It was just protecting me. Look, it's just as a matter it does. He he you know, I've often called him panicked I had to borrow money with him before for rent of my brother as well. And and it does panic them a bit is wanting to say what they want to say me happen to want to say me not stressed about money. The end of the day, he knows that I am I'd much prefer to be poor, and doing something that I'm passionate about than to be back in advertising, making 100 K a year and be miserable. I've money's never been important to me. We had a lot of it when we were younger, and then when mom got sick, we lost it all. Um, so for most of my life, we've had no money and I've just learned to get by and we just always figure it out. And you know, it's very important to my brother. That's what he's driven by. That's what he works really hard for and he's younger than me and he's about to buy a house and congratulations to him and he's definitely into it, but it's just not what drives me in life.
It's hard because I mean, we've been talking about making money through doing the creative thing we love and I'm very much so I kind of take a job that's fine hundred 50 grand that I feel like shit every day it would kill me Yeah, I'd be a sheet husband, dad, shipmates, all of these things and show employee
shadow definitely be doing a shit job.
The worst job but if all goes to shit I will be okay if you didn't hire me.
and so the it's important right because money makes the world go round. And so we need some of this shit and so
that's why I've been so so fucking happy with this new podcast I'm doing a Mamma Mia. Because for the first time I'm being paid to do something that I really love to be loving to do you know a lot that I haven't enjoyed some of the work I've been doing you know as an influencer there's definitely jobs that come through where I'm like am I literally getting paid to do this right now? This is the dream chiller baby Yeah, seriously I mean that was that was one VIP Coachella with revolve insane. I was just in Cambodia with well and I was paid to be there insane. How am I being paid to travel that that is literally the dream, but it's still not you know, fulfilling that sort of that job satisfaction feeling and that's what I've gotten recently from the podcast. Plus it pays my rent like you know, that's what you want
when it's it is hitting the jackpot. That's what I think about if you get to wake up every day doing the fucking thing you love and
still background. That's the dream.
Yeah, I think the other thing too is for Tommy and I were like obsessed with not working for anyone else which can happen which I guess like you're a great example of someone who like you're doing you can work for someone and still be satisfied. I think it's all in the storey as well.
Yeah, but I am very much like it's definitely it's funny. I've had a few jobs over the years where I was doing a three day a week gig with a PR agency as a freelancer and it is very funny to go back to that life when you haven't been doing it for a long time. Like even when I was up in the other major offices doing my podcast for those two weeks being in the office you know at 830 every morning and leaving at six like that was a shock I was exhausted Yeah, we
know how to quit you send a letter and then you just do something with
it you become a good employee right? I think it's I take my hat off to people who can you stick it
perfect employee a day like you get it it's very similar. It's just like you don't have the stress of wiring
there's something nice though I think when you've been doing what I've been doing for so long there is something nice I mean their bonuses and negatives to both sides of the coin obviously but there was something nice about having a routine you know getting up having my toes I caught the train for fuck sake. I don't do public transport. I don't even have a month I can't hear I can't really die if I if Jen wants me to get the tribe the tribe into the city or if I go to the 40 I have to let Mike doesn't have a spare Maki with some dollars on it because I don't have one
did you buy a new outfit and stuff I can
work out yet? No but I do have to make sure because I you know I dress kind of a little bit alternatively anyway that's my shirt wasn't wearing any like you know roots like a like a T shirt with drawn on boobs on it. I was like oh probably shouldn't wear that one today. Although Mamma mia they have it love it.
Yes The one that says Bad Girl have big brother on it.
you're done merge
your own match. No, I haven't. But my friends got some single it's printed there was some gag in the show about me being Tim made some joke about me being from the Sydney socialite beach club or something. And my girlfriend's got some singlet some basketball singlet made with SS bc on it which was kind of cute when they when I was evicted, but no never done much
talking about the food thing before I feel like it's one of those things for me anyway where it's like I can laugh my Uber rate stuff but then it's also makes me really sad cuz I'm like oh, like I am actually eating really shit food and I don't feel good How do you reconcile that like taking off the OG? No,
I won't pretend that I haven't been blessed with some great genes me my brothers are quite tool and just naturally slim I insane that I work out you know regularly that's really important I do that mainly for my mental health to be completely honest. Even when I was you know training six days a week sometimes twice a day my body shape doesn't didn't really change I didn't I didn't get super tone and and get buffed up I nothing really changes movement mental health. But you know, it's such a cliche, but it really really is all about balance and I I drink a lot you know i party I go out. I ate a lot of McDonald a lot of pizza.
Yeah, if it comes like as a side like I never order like a salad for a main meal.
97 you criticise me so much I like of salads. Talking balance
45 Ambassador seriously because I was posting too many videos and storeys of me eating pizza and garlic bread and burgers. Yeah, I wasn't the train the 45 laughs
good chef is a good chef. Chef good.
I'm currently trying chef. I have done work with you for years before my big fan of
because I feel like the idea of just getting stuff delivered. And you don't have to think about
the best and I don't cook like I'm you know, I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I'm single as far so cooking is just not happening. I mean, the eating out arm ordering instead of have something that's healthy portion control isn't the other issue. You know, I order a pizza my mom's gonna have a couple of slices and before you know eating healthy, I'm knowing that you know it's portion control. It's fresh pop in the microwave, and that's all you eat the knife.
It's kind of sounds like you don't have a plan B for
your favourite food vicious attack.
As in the curry stuff, like it sounds like you're willing to leaving the space of not only being uncomfortable.
Yeah, I mean, I definitely I saw me change there was a shift in of last year. And I thought I don't want to be doing it justice for another year. I'm sick of not feeling fulfilled, I'm sick of not feeling challenged was what's influencing. You know, I didn't want to just be taking selfies for another year. And I said I had a few ideas of where I wanted to go. podcasting was definitely one of them. And that's come to fruition just coincidentally. But I kind of decided that this would be the year where I made a change and and that's worked out for me so I think I'll always be doing the influencing stuff as long as people want me to do it. Why would you turn that away? I'm not gonna say no, I'm not going to take a grand for doing that you're not going to say that's ridiculous and stupid. So for as long as they want they'll have me I'll definitely continue to continue to do that but the podcasting stuff is definitely bought me some personal satisfaction how much of this stuff is actually by chance you said the podcast by chances haven't been if you're thinking I want to be doing something different? Isn't that kind of more To be honest, I mean, I think what got me that gig was doing these you know, I was a guest in a few other podcasts that done well had gone made the rounds. I'm sure someone heard that or saw that and put it forth and that's why I got the call. I'm sorry. I guess my maybe my background journalism and my ability to you know, tell a storey has as helps. I don't think it's just I've fallen and slipped into it. Obviously this I've got some kind of skill. You say why am I here? Yeah.
Well, you said it's a storey that one of your dreams was to do radio. Yeah. And this was sort of podcast 19 Exactly. And so when you because a bunch of people did it Chrissy Swan is a good example of someone from Yeah, fits he was that on the cards? Were you pushing that in the
definitely not enough people don't believe me when I say that. And I know that I maybe wasn't it definitely were people in the house that went in there with the idea coming out with a media Korea Viet presenting radio, whatever acting that was never on the card to me. I think right up until I was evicted, I thought I'd go back to my job in advertising. And then doing all the radio stuff that you do off the show. The chats with Sonia. You know, I was a panellist on a couple of morning shows in Sydney for a while. I love that. And I was good at it. And it was really exciting. So that's kind of when I thought well, maybe this is something that I could be doing now. But that never again. I mean, that never came to fruition. You know, I never got my own TV show. I didn't become a radio host I didn't get a regular TV good conversations
with people. Yeah,
definitely where I you know, and there's been talks as me doing going on having awareness and all kinds of chats like that over the years doing other reality TV shows, but it's never come to fruition. So even when I got the call about this podcast, I kept it to myself for ages because I was like, I'm just so prepared for this to be pulled out from underneath me again.
I mean, you've been doing this so if you were to look back at say five six years ago and what's the future of work it's like you're in this new space this weed influencing space and as I now the weed new space is getting paid so fucking podcast Yeah, that's the weird new future.
Yeah, I never I never thought that I'd be doing influencing stuff still. There's no way like no way like I thought that you know, but even I thought okay, I might get into the next series of Big Brother I might get that much time so just under a year before people stop caring about me and that was six years ago. Be could never picked that the time there's just no way.
And so when you when did you find Jen? And when when did it turn in from you doing it on your own to having support?
So yes, I Roxy just think I was my first manager Ministry of talent in Sydney. And then I was with another agency and then I met Jen Jen actually booked me to go on an instant me it was very forward thinking back then she was on the wall even even back then. So she had me a few of the influences and personalities who there was not about tell Lindy claim, and a few other smaller influences, and she had us will come to resort that she was looking after in Bali. And basically, we just were there for four days. And we knew we had to Instagram the fuck out of the trip. And I met her on that ship, she was still working in PR and I was moving to Melbourne. And she said, Come Just do it. Just like I'll be your friend, I'll hang out with you. And so I made the move. And she's on my first friends here. And she still works in PR for a while after that. And then eventually she started day management. And I watched that flourish, I was a bit apprehensive and she knows is I was a bit apprehensive to, I think people that she might be her first talent. And we'd be added events. They'd be like, what's it like, you know, how's Jen going, it was kind of awkward for a while because I'm actually not with Jen. But I just wanted to say, you know, it was my bread and butter. It was my career. And she didn't have a lot of experience in talent management, she a lot of experience in PR and marketing and that kind of thing, but not in talent management. And so I wanted to sit back and watch her for a bit to make sure she knew what she was doing. And she was killing it. And I was really impressed with everything she was doing and how far she'd grown and progress. So I am I signed over
what what makes a good manager.
She I think it's funny because I sometimes I make sure she gets the credit she deserves because I've had quite a few managers quite a few high profile big ones. And she's my find a way the best I've ever had and what to say that because she's my best friend, such manager. She's really proactive. And I think that that makes her stand out from the crowd. She doesn't just take the emails that I forward to her that gets sent to her, as you know, inquiring about working with me, she will go out and she will hustle hard for me. She will see that, for instance, Pantene working with another limp influence from other agency and sugar what the hell wants to work with them and she'll cold call, she'll approach them and she'll say, Hey, you know, I've seen you guys have been doing some work in the influencer space, we've got tally, we've got x y, Zed, they're great here, their stats would love to work with you. That just does not happen and a lot of agencies and it what it's what makes us stand out from the crowd I that
you should do talks like it. Have you spoken to kids in front of a bunch of kids.
I say that because I saw a psychic recently and she said that. That's where I'm going. And what I'm going to be doing
is the Bumble event. I feel like everyone's face
was too big. Yeah, no, I have one I say once a year, I think she's great. And she said that I will be doing motivational talks at schools talking about anxiety and self love and travelling and stuff like
that. Well, I think the storey in the I don't want to do selfies anymore. But it's that it's part of the journey. Right? And I think you've got a good take on it. You've you've lived experience and experience that no one will probably hit like most people won't have going into a fucking Big brother like going into a CCTV house. Every room is filled. It's like, and then coming out of it. I think it'd be great. Yeah.
Thanks. Well, if you're out there, I'm down.
If you've realised I do like the sound of my voice. So I'm happy. And I love a microphone.
Do you have days off? Like you do and you'll leave to go somewhere where it's not to take photos?
Yeah, I think it's really nice these days when I get to go on a trip, that's not a job. You know, because those jobs everyone's like, Oh, you sound like you get to travel and I absolutely AM. But sometimes, you know, they're wanting three posts a day. That's a lot. That's a lot of content and sort of thinking okay, I gotta wait, I gotta wear a cute outfit. I gotta you know, that was kind of cool about that, you know, the boss over there is cool. So it's really nice when I get to go away and not have to do that and I have to check in I have to do a storey to a room to do if it doesn't happen often. But it's really nice when I get to do that
well I guess it's sort of once you start playing like a con the contract game or whatever, all of a sudden going to if you're used to going to like a really nice hotel and getting the best room and then like being like in pocket trying to negotiate room up 50 bucks
it's funny it's hot like it's such a small problem with like a tiny violin kind of deal but you know when you sent to when you're always VIP at festivals when you get you know centre when go to movie premieres and cold class when you do a job with someone and they fly first class to then go back and like live your actual life on your budget and be like, oh, OK, so I'll just take the king room with no balcony. It was a window. That's I don't know, window. That's fine. Fly Academy, you know, with everybody else in the Poland festivals. It is funny.
What are you learning from social squad new podcast
It was over the top number one forever week? Yeah, no, it's out every Wednesday. So get amongst it on every podcasting app. I've actually learned a lot i i've chatted with a variety of different women, business women, entrepreneurs, influencers, some of whom I have followed myself for years and was a bit starstruck and a little bit giddy meeting them. And the others that I wasn't familiar with, but I'm now obsessed with. But I've learned a lot. I've learned a lot about these business women because as you know, as you said before, I haven't really ever considered myself a businesswoman. I haven't really ever considered my Instagram a business, but it is end of the day. These women are this so switched on this. So I'm like, I'm just I'm an avid by them and how hard they work and how many side hustle they've got going on how many, you know, other businesses, they've got, they've got going on as well as their Instagram. It's been pretty eye opening. And I think that that's why I am excited about the show because it's been eye opening for me. And I mean, the industry, it's gonna be, you know, really interesting to everybody else.
Well, the real conversations, they, they're not just an image,
and I think having me host it and having maybe the interview or having me that chat and bounce ideas off and sort of be like, Oh, yes, I made two. I think that helped get these people to open up a bit more. You know, when I ask them questions, you know, like that, What's the weirdest deal we've ever been sent? And I kind of look at me a bit panics. Like, like, Can I say that? And I'll be like, Oh, well, I've been asked in a photo of my fate. Like, oh, yeah, me too. It kind of gets them to open up a bit more.
I know there's another one that you spoke about at the milkshake shoes. That you got
to be an opponent. Yeah, yeah, that's my storey. I
got cut from the
all my juicy stuff. How much how much do they offer? They offer me 100 K to be in a porno with two well a doubt guys. I can make the email if you want.
I would go and like looking to the people like I'm fascinated by
the person email address was Bundy boy in 1990.
So they also instructed me to be clean shaven. There was lots of instructions in that email. I still worth over 100 k but yeah, it's Yeah, it's spit rose.
If you weren't going to do uncut, like a big brother if I didn't have uncut hundred grand is
Look, I've always said that if worse comes to worse and when I shouldn't have to feel my video and get it like
that's one thing. You know, having sex with someone you're actually having sex with is one thing. But yeah, I don't think I need to be involved with two men
is the so the Instagrams one platform that's obviously doing extremely well. Do you have the sense of where's the next one? Where do I need to be building?
Know? Again, you know, I've been told that Tick Tock is where it's at. I first
Tommy on tik tok 80,000 views he got
Tick tock, I just borrowed the new skin.
Yeah, they just said their platforms just opened up the floodgate, right. It's like Instagram when the water sinking over, right? And then it goes,
I always assume that the guy would have just been like that. You gotta watch the video for this guy. You've actually
going and so right now there's water going in, there's water going in, and then they're gone. And it's just pouring and you're getting sucked down
into the hole, which is Tick tock tick tock.
Tick Tock is
like, unless I'm an early adopter, I refuse to be a light adapter. So like, I have watched any Game of Thrones haven't watched Lord of the Rings. Breaking Bad I
was because of course I haven't,
I would say so. I have two younger brothers. So I grew up with this. But if I'm not early adapter, I might be able to talk about it with everybody real time. I just refuse. So I've already empty life. Tick, tick. Tick Tock. Well,
Telly, how do you challenge this thinking of yours? Because it doesn't serve you I'm doing this at the moment guy. What do I fucking think? And then what is the opposite of that? And maybe that's
the theatre sports game.
You go, how do you? How do you have that mindset and then we know on another platform, because being an early adopter is fucking hard. You're going to have some either accidental stumble into this thing you've downloaded or beyond Have you fallen apart.
I've kind of the way I've always looked at my career. And what I do is I've always, I've always found myself to be lucky, I've always thought I'm lucky to still be getting paid to do this. And so I'm ready for it to end anytime. You know, when people talk about I think there are definitely a lot of people in my industry, and even some of my friends who Instagram, you know, if Instagram crashed tomorrow, they would be fucked. But I have always had confidence in them like that. I've got other skills and talents, I have other things to offer. And so I've never been concerned about being left behind or not adopting the next app or not having the followers or not having engagement, right. It's never concerned me like, I'm kind of prepared for everything to stop tomorrow. And I'm confident in myself and in my ability and in my brain that I have other things to offer and other ways to make money. It was good, good answer.
I think it's like relaxing. I find that calming because I think like there's a confidence that where Tommy and I are at is like, we need like when I have an old like we've got our audience here, but it's like we built this from nothing. And so what's the the thing that got us to there was doing all this stuff. And so it's
like chasing your tail.
Yeah. And so there is something nice about being like
you know, we'd like you know, we'd liberating Why don't you guys just love it, you know, there's been a couple of times and I can think of a memory I think maybe two or three, or Instagram has been down for more than a second. It's been down for like half an hour and an hour. And they're always hilarious tweet, it went guys to tweet out. And they're always hilarious tweet big, like I just met my last night for the first time. But isn't there something really like exciting and live writing about that? I'm like, holy shit is this over is real? I gotta know something about it makes me I'm excited for that next
Well, I mean, there's the book digital minimalism by a guy named Cal Newport. He did another book called Deep work, which is like, he talks about the shallow work. So the day to day stuff that will be doing and focusing on things like writing a big book, rather than doing individual tweets.
I think even big brother, they, there was a lot of chat. They pitched me as a social media strategist. And there was a lot of chat, you know, even I remember being on stage with Sonia Krieger before I went into the house. And she said, you know, here's the big question, how you gonna cope with your phone? And that was a lot of my post eviction chats were also like, how did you go that your phone? That was one of the best parts about it? Yeah. connecting with people making friends making connections, with none of those distractions, computers. I mean, those are music, which was it was horrendous, but we had nothing to do but talk to each other. And I, to this day, think that that's why you know that my bond with my ex boyfriend drew was so strong, because we kind of like dating and it finds it makes sense. We just talked so much I know I can tell you about, you know, things that he was scared of when he was a child and memories of him in the playground as a as a kid, like, I know so much about him that we would I I know more about him than I do have other relationships that went on for years and years and years and years and years, because you just connect on this deeper level that we just don't do these days. So if you
digital detox every time though you turned off the tap.
When my mom passed away last month, I was offered for a couple of weeks, it just wasn't where my head was at. But I don't, it doesn't. It doesn't stress me out enough to need to do that I don't get to the point where like, all with 10pm and then put my phone down and just switch off. If it's causing me to stress if my if my Instagrams blowing up or you know, the trolls are at me for a day I just put my phone down and read a book instead.
You've spoken a lot about your mom on other podcasts, about the struggles with dementia. What's the grieving process been like with her passing away? It's been
an interesting one. I don't know what I expected to be like. I've I you know, I think that I guess I had an idea in my head about how I would react, I thought out of everyone in my family, I was the angriest that she was still alive, I was the angriest that she was still stuck in this sort of no man's land. And so I think that I was I, I thought that, you know, I'd get the phone call that she was on, you know, close to passing away and I would step into gear and I'd hold it all together. And then we got a call about a year ago saying that she was going into war, of course the Paladin palliative care as she could get into. And that really freaks me out. I'm really, I don't know why, but it just really threw me when we got the phone call last month, saying that she'd taken another turn. I don't know whether it's because I had that initial shock reaction or just where I was at in my life at the time. But I it I it kind of played out the way I thought it would play out. So I got myself together. I went to Sydney, I spent three days with her, she passed away and I pretty much along with my eldest brother Scott, we organised that entire funeral. I just went into organisational mode. You know, we had the meeting with the funeral planner, we pick the flowers, I put the SlideShare together, I was the only child to speak at the funeral. I see what needed to be done. I haven't really had that moment of everyone's waiting for it at my family. My dad said to me, he's like, Oh, you know, we're all so proud of how you've had it out. We'll thought you'd like thought What? Like I'd lose my shit. And I haven't really had that moment. I don't know. I'm kind of like waiting for it. Yeah,
I'm talking about it. It's helpful.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think that I said that. Being able to, you know, I did do a couple of podcasts about it and spoke about it quite soon after losing her. And I think that that was a way of channelling my anger into raising awareness. And raising funds. My brother did a had a charity event where we raised over $20,000 for him and his mates shave off their beards, which was great. And I think that that made me feel like I was doing something useful with my pain, which probably helps. And then obviously, this podcast with me, I came back very, very, very soon after two, and I've been able to throw myself into that and focus on that. So I think that'd be a blessing in disguise is, it's nice to think that maybe that's all come about because of Mom, you know, maybe she's looking down on me. Or that I was able to sort of now that I was able to sort of pack that away. Finally, that my mind was clear to focus on other things that I've not been able to sort of put my time to.
Maybe the gratitude for this stuff is happening for you as well.
Yeah, for sure. And I think that it's definitely given me
a platform to talk about dementia awareness and to raise awareness, which is very important to me. And it has been important to me. And if I can make a dent in that in raising funds and finding a cure, then, you know, the 23 years of having not having my mom around, you know, wouldn't have been nothing.
Yeah, I think it's, um, it's an interesting one, because that's the end of her pain. She was obviously in a lot of pain, but but I guess you can, you could say all there's a bit of there's a bit of sweetness to
it. With that, because I lost, we lost her in most ways. 23 years ago, that shock factor isn't there. I don't feel a sudden emptiness. I'm not going to call her and having to remind myself, she's not there. I haven't had a mom since I was 1719 years old. So whilst there was obviously still pain, and there's definitely been a shift, I definitely feel her absence, there. Isn't that sort of like, my life hasn't changed?
I wonder how that affects you though. Because I feel like that would be the because it is such a complex issue. Your the pain that you're experiencing would be I'm guessing, really different to that to that other version? Yeah,
it's definitely affected I think as an adult. And you know, I think as you get older, and you sort of want to do more work on yourself, and you want to look into, you know, into yourself and be more self aware. I've definitely now in the last couple of years realised how much that has affected me isn't at all. I have some, you know, severe abandonment issues, amongst many other things, which probably why I'm single, but yeah, it's definitely I think, you know, as my dad's psychologist said to him, you know, we've been grieving her this whole time. It's been a huge grieving process this entire time, which is exhausting itself. So there is definitely a sense of release. But at the same time, I still my mom still died, you know, and there is still that, that you never nothing ever prepares you for that.
Yeah. Going to the funeral and speaking to family, what was that whole experience? Like?
It was a lot because I don't know if you guys have seen photos of my mom, but I'm the spitting image of her. And a lot of those people hadn't seen us since we were quite young. And I think it was quite confronting. For a lot of them. They said that I heard that from their mouth. A lot of them find it hard to even say hello to me. Because I look a lot like my mother. It was nice. I think that, you know, dementia is it's tough. It's tough for everybody. It's tough for the people around, it's tough for her friends and family and, and we did lose touch with a lot of people in her life that for whatever reason died became a bit more of a recluse taking care of her. You know, people find it hard to go visit mom. So there are a lot of people there that were dealing with their own issues, their own guilt that I ended up having to you know, I was confronting a lot of people, which felt weird. Like, why am I hugging you? Why are you crying? It was it was a weird one. It was it was it was a really good one. And also the other factor of a lot of people in my life. Now my close friends and I had a lot of beautiful friends fly out from Melbourne to Sydney for the funeral. Nearly all of it, no one had met mum. So they were at attending a funeral for someone that they'd never met. That was also an interesting aspect to it. I think a lot of them struggled to humanise her until, you know I did I made a slide show that, you know, I, I put a lot of effort into the SlideShare to try and tell us the storey of her life. And I think that I mean, I could hear it behind me That was when a lot of people lost it. Because I think that that made her human and put her in contact with us and our life and my dad, which a lot of people in that room had never experienced or seen themselves.
How how did those? How did the experience with your mom shape you? Do you think as a person?
I like to think that it made me a stronger human being. If it didn't, then I'm definitely more resilient. You can pretty much take anything at me these days, and it won't stick to that kebab.
That was all the Red Bulls.
Look, it's it's a very maternal, I'm a care. I'm a lover. I fuss over everybody. But yeah, it's affected me in negative ways to for sure. I'm convinced that everybody I love is going to leave me. I struggle. You know, I crave motherly figures and female role models in my life. I don't have a lot of them. My aunt, my dad side has been amazing. But my mom's sister was pretty much Mia the entire time, which was tough for me. It's definitely affected me. And I'm finding out more and more about how just the extent of that as I get older and do more work on myself
and the psychology stuff like when something big like this happens. Do you make a phone call straightaway and book that in knowing that it's gonna be hard?
Yeah. Do you know what I think? Again, I've been working on it a lot over the years, I feel like it's been a process that I'm already well into. We always use is going to happen. We just didn't know when the thing that confuses me the most with that. And the thing that I still struggle with the my psychologist is, is the anger part of it. I think that when someone gets sick wouldn't when a parent or anyone really a loved one get sick or dies before their time. The knee jerk reaction is to sort of turn them into this. evangelists stick figure out, you know, you sort of put on this pedestal, suddenly they have no flaws. They were perfect.
Every few nods why everyone seems to be great. Right?
Exactly. And I think that it's taken a while and I'm still working on it with my psychologist to admit and deal with the fact that I am very fucking angry about it. That's not something that comes naturally to me. I don't want to say that I'm angry. I don't want to, you know, when she tries to get me to say things, and I'm like, Well, you know, it wasn't her fault. Like, she didn't pick to get sick. She if she could have chosen to not be sick. She was chosen. Now, you know, she didn't mean to leave us when she left us. And that's all well and good. And I know that, you know, I'm an idiot, but it doesn't mean I'm not fucking angry about it. Yeah. And that's been I think the hardest thing for me to sort of work through is just the anger
at you know, it's just such a fucking unfair thing to have happened to me last, what about for people around you? When you are going through something like that? Is there a way you want people to?
Yeah, I think that's something that again, a lot of my friends are struggling with. Now, as an adult, I've had a lot of friends from high school who either attended the funeral or listen to a few of my podcast recently reached out and say, I'm so sorry, I wish I'd known what you're going through. I wish I'd been there for you more. But end of the day, I mean, I was 15 years old, I wasn't going to school and wanting to talk about it. In fact, I was doing the complete opposite. I was purposely hiding it from everybody. And now obviously, with the baby boomers getting older, unfortunately, I'm having more and more people come to me with what sounds to me like signs of dementia in their parents, which fucking breaks my heart. It ruins me every time because I just sort of see this like, mini video of what they're about to face. And it I just wouldn't wish it upon anybody. But I think just asking, you know, even obviously, it doesn't make much sense now. But even just having a few, you know, I had a few friends would just say, hey, how's your mom doing? And just let me give as much love and talk about if I say yeah, she's the same. I'll leave it at that. But just asking, you know, acknowledging that she's still exist. So many people just, you know, act as if she was already dead.
We almost live sort of lean away from that, because we know the conversation that could be Yeah. They overcome, so Yeah, totally. No, like, I felt myself my friend's father passed away. And I saw him. I felt so emotional thinking about him. And I knew that I didn't want to come across like, I'm a fucking, it's about me now. But it's weird. It made me feel really funny.
Yeah, it was interesting seeing a lot of my friends at the funeral. Before we leave, I had just gotten there with this isn't this is before the service and they were there hysterically crying. It was really, it was odd for me, because I'm like, Why you? Like I don't know, like, Yeah, why you like you didn't, you didn't know her. But I guess you're crying because you you can see that I'm hurting.
Maybe it's also a lack of understanding or like, in regards to like, if your friends are coming out, or people come in and say, I wish I'd known and all that sort of thing. It is that realisation of everyone. I think it's a it's a broader piece on everyone's struggling, everyone's got this storey,
even though our age, you know, we're lucky that death and funerals is still not a common place. You know, I think that we're still at the age where having, you know, I can list off to my head, my friends who have lost parents, it's still not a very common occurrence. Our parents is still quite young, you know, still on a thing. We do a lot, thankfully. So I think that we're as adults and as human beings to try to navigate that death, death in general, but also funerals and how to, you know, react and help people with grief. It's something that we haven't had a lot of exposure to experience with. So we're all figuring it out together.
Well, you see, even with like, on Father's Day, Mother's Day people put up post celebrating their families. When during Mother's Day was there was that a triggering point?
That they're always really hard. Mother's days hard. Christmas is hard. Her birthday is hard. And then there are times you don't expect to be hard that you that hit you bit harder. I say hard again today. Yeah, that they're definitely harder days for sure. And I always make an effort to reach out to my friends who have lost parents on those days, just to say that I'm thinking of them and checking in on them. There's just a gaping hole. You know, it's it's obvious a lot of the time during, you know, on just on a normal Tuesday, but on those days, especially it hits home. And I think I think again, as I'm getting older, it's more the achievements that I'm sad about not be able to share, you know, I came I made peace with the fact that my mom wouldn't be at my wedding A long time ago. That was always a tough one for me initially, but I you know, I realised pretty A long time ago now that she wouldn't be at my wedding. But stuff like you know, even I've just been asked to write a book and my mom was a massive bookworm. And that I can't I have everything that I've done in my life, that would have been the thing that she would have been so ecstatic about, I would have had, I would have just been over the moon. And when I sat down for that meeting, and was told that I wanted me to write a book. I just I was like, I wish I could talk to her about that. I wish I could tell her that because I often wonder how she would have reacted to Big Brother. That's a definite question mark. But I know for a fact that she would just be so proud of me writing a book.
Yeah, absolutely. And the building like do you think that you can emulate family through friendship?
Absolutely. I have I've for years, my family a great I've got two younger brothers and my dad who was amazing. But I think with things like this, it brings you closer together or it distances you a bit depending on the kind of family you've got. We've never been a big family of talkers. I'm the only talker in the family. And so we've all handled it differently. My friends have been my family for years and years now I moved here six years ago and I knew nobody and I was going through a breakup and I was away from my frat family and all the way from my friends and I quickly built a really great support network. Whilst we had family at the funeral, my the people that I needed around me and people that I wanted it the waggon people that were making me feel better and London supported with my friends. And yeah, they've been amazing. Absolutely amazing.
Well, I think it's like having listened to your on May Freedmen's podcast, wellness collective podcast as well. It cleaner. Yeah, KB cleaner, I think like all of all of these are your way of celebrating your mom, but also I think, you know, spreading awareness, which is so important. And so, you know, I think you've taken a storey something that you've really struggled with and being able to create life, which I think is amazing. So, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. Social squad is your podcast
every Wednesday and all good podcasting app
Yeah, who's who's the next one who you this is coming up to
say okay, really? Yeah top secret
to daily talk show hi the daily talk show.com his email address if you want to email me we got an emails nice hips and then I
we got one imaginable sponsorship for you here right.
We got one from Ian trainer.
Yeah, he's he also had a storey about
photos. He was at a good friend's wedding. And the bride's brother and his mates barring the cameras that were left on attended on the table. They proceeded to make a lovely flower arrangement around let's call it an appendage,
take some photos and then put the camera back. This is one of the ones that you have to get the
cameras on every table and the footage from those was amazing.
Right not saving face. Yeah, that's some great take shots.
But yeah, Tommy was known for taking a few asshole show.
That was the joke. Yeah, that's the funny. What is that? Anyway, if you've enjoyed the show, take a screen grab pull up on Instagram tag us up so we know we can say thank you. Otherwise, we'll say tomorrow. Gotcha.
See you guys.