#889 – Craig Harper On The Fitness Industry & Observing Thought/
- October 21, 2020
Craig Harper is back to chat about the fitness industry during COVID-19, how trainers and coaches can stand out, culture and leadership, empathising with truths and stories and observing thoughts.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
- Coaching and mentoring online
- Switching off
- The fitness industry during COVID-19
- Standing out in the fitness industry
- Customer life cycles in training and coaching
- Self-awareness and awareness of thought
- Culture and leadership
- Empathising with truths and stories
- Observing thought
- Cognitive overload
- Trial and error
- Old school culture
The You Project: https://www.craigharper.net/podcast/
Email us: email@example.com
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business, and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:00] It's the daily talk show episode
Josh Janssen: [00:00:05] 889.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:08] Craig Harper. Welcome back to the daily talk show, man.
Craig Harper: [00:00:13] It's a little bit like telly, you guys are getting a bit too fast. You got to know what's going on. I'm sitting over here, put your head there, done on don't move that way because it's like reversed for you. And you know, I'm a dinosaur and I'm trying to figure it all out.
And, uh, And everything just went off the screen and then these graphics came up, like I'm doing chapter 10 again, and then they're you to park bull feds. Yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:36] But you've done some good, good stuff. When it comes to your technical fates of light, what's your biggest tech win. What's something that you're proud of that you've done technically.
Craig Harper: [00:00:46] Oh, Josh, I've been pivoting like a fucker, you know, pivoting, adapting, improvising. Yeah, all that, all that, all the cliches, all the COVID cliches I've been doing all of them. I mean, in all seriousness with, I mean, biggest obvious the biggest obvious tech kind of. Switch for me has been from doing gigs to humans in rooms, to gigs with humans on the other side of, uh, you know, the camera.
So that's been interesting. I've gone. Yeah, I'm doing, I think we've spoken about this before, but I'm now doing, you know, all my mentoring groups are online and more. My, my I'm doing. Lots of coaching or not too much one on one coaching, hardly any, but lots of speakers, lots of corporate, which I thought yeah.
Would dry up, but it's kind of coming back cause people are going well, we're the need to do it online or not at all. So still doing a fair bit of professional development staff just did some stuff with the government doing some stuff with, um, yeah, quite a lot of different companies and it's just a new model.
And in fact, I reckon in some ways it's better because. Um, there's just a lot of convenience around it because people can, you know, yeah. Literally I'm doing some stuff with the department of education and I'm doing with some of the kind of leaders in there, and obviously everybody's working remotely. So I'll get, you know, people from 50 different households tuning in and, um, people don't have to drive anywhere.
People don't need to find a park. People don't need to factor in half an hour or 45 minutes each way. People don't have to worry about getting a ticket or paying. You know, there's just a lot of convenience. There's, I mean, it's not all ups, but there are, there are a lot of positives I think. And you know, it doesn't matter how much we jump up and down.
It is what it is and we're not pretending that it's awesome. But at the same time, we need to work with. Especially in Victoria, we need to work with what is, and what is right now is a whole bunch of rules and limitations. And that's where we sit.
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:50] Do you think you're hearing more feedback or just in terms of what, what your sessions are doing with individuals based on it being digital and people, having the ability to shoot you more emails or have time to respond to you after a workshop you say, you know, with the, with the corporate business,
Craig Harper: [00:03:10] Yeah, look what's happening is I've.
I've kind of, I've had to, I've had to kill the emails a bit because I get too many emails. So I was saying to someone before, I don't know about you guys, but, and this, this is going to sound like I'm lying. I'm not lying. I get 50 people a day, sent me a video. 50 different videos and go hops. You've got to watch this.
It's awesome. I'm like, fuck you video. I don't have time.
Tommy Jackett: [00:03:38] They've gone down a YouTube rabbit hole and they're like, this is great.
Craig Harper: [00:03:40] I reckon hops would like it. Yeah. Yeah. Or 20 times a day, I get, you should get this bloke or this lady on your podcast. And they mean, well, But you just can't, you can't open every door and every, you know, and I get, well, Melissa deals with most of them, but we get more than 500 emails a week asking for advice.
And you just can't, you know, or someone like you guys probably who wants to be on the show or, and there's, it's not that you don't, it's not that you're a good person, but yeah. So in the context of my corporate speaking, what I'm doing is I'm going, okay, this is a 90 minute session team. So I'm going to ramble on for about 60.
If you really need to ask me something, put up your little electronic hand. But better that you write a question and we're going to do 30 minutes of Q and a at the end. So yeah. And you can make that Q and a as interactive as you want. I'm doing, I'm doing two mentoring groups at the moment, a Monday night and a Thursday night, which is an open to the public thing.
And every, you know, every session I will talk about a topic, you know, where we might talk about, you know, mental toughness or resilience or decision making or self management or whatever component of the. You know, looking after me and my life conundrum. Um, and, but at the end of that, I always, what about 30 minutes side?
So we can just have an interactive dialogue and, and, uh, and even with, with, cause I do big groups of hundreds, like three to 500. Which it's harder for the interactive, but I do small groups of 30, where actually people get in and answer each other's questions and go, Hey, I went through a similar thing.
This is what I did. So I actually
Tommy Jackett: [00:05:22] did that at that point. You've
Josh Janssen: [00:05:24] left your you're at dinner
Tommy Jackett: [00:05:26] and it's actually just running itself at that point.
Craig Harper: [00:05:29] Correct? I'm downstairs, Tom getting chicken and broccoli. Uh, cause it's how I roll. I'm an excitement machine and I'm like you kids just look after yourself.
You're going to need some food.
Josh Janssen: [00:05:38] Do you find it easy to switch off with doing everything you know, from home and on the computer?
Craig Harper: [00:05:46] Well, what's interesting is I just did, um, I did a podcast literally finished 15 minutes before we started with a guy called grant Edwards. Who's an amazing dude. Don't you hate it when people say you should, but you should think about getting this guy.
And he was a former commander of the Australian federal police, and Australia's strongest man. But the beauty of that is so I'm interviewing and dude in Queensland, we have an hour and a quarter conversation about fascinating shit. He's got an amazing life. I get off the phone to him. I go and make myself a coffee, coffee.
I eat, I eat a handful of almonds. Cause I'm an excitement machine. I checked through emails and I come down here and now I'm chatting to you guys. I mean, it's, it's very, very convenient, you know? And so I like that. From a, from the personal point of view and a sociological point of view, I wouldn't mind a cuddle or a hug or a fucking rousing chorus of kumbaya with another human or a coffee, or I wouldn't mind touching somebody's face or something, but, um, you know, I'd touch your Uber rates.
Josh Janssen: [00:06:49] They let you do that. If you're ordering for a free pickup.
Craig Harper: [00:06:55] Well, when the dude bought my thing, the other night, I tried to cuddle him in the bloody driveway, but he wasn't into it, which was very disappointing. So I'm in therapy for that as well.
Tommy Jackett: [00:07:05] Um, recently have been, like, I took a couple of days off last week and.
Uh, the, you know, switching off is a challenge in itself. It takes effort to switch off. I feel like a lot of people are all or nothing. It's either, you know, you're running the gauntlet of social media, just facts, you know, looking at just going hard after all, you have to delete, what are you? Are you all or nothing in life?
And also social media.
Craig Harper: [00:07:34] Um, I reckon I'm pretty, I reckon I'm somewhere in the middle, but I will be, um, I will be honest and I will say, I reckon I need to rein it in a little bit with social media because, because I mean, you guys and myself, part of our business relies on social media, obviously. And so I can, wrestler's my one hour down the Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, whatever rabbit hole and go, Oh, you know, I need to do this because I need to stay connected, but there's a lot of time where I'm just doing bullshit.
So, um, I need to be careful of that. Um, but I am. One thing I'm pretty good at and whether or not that's just through work or it's genetic inbuilt is I'm pretty good at going from busy and chaotic to completely relaxed in five minutes. I don't get, generally I don't get anxious about things. I don't overthink things.
Um, yeah. Yeah. So I'm pretty good at being very busy. And now I'm on my bed watching Ray Donovan and it's four minutes later. How do I, if you're having, if you're having much Ray Donovan, everyone get on board, you're missing out.
Josh Janssen: [00:08:54] How do you empathize with your mates that are in the fitness industry that they've got gyms?
All of a sudden they're, they're unable to do the work. Like what are you, what do you say to them?
Craig Harper: [00:09:05] Yeah, I've been an advocate for this. Soft-spoken out a little bit, but it's just hard, isn't it? Because, well, one I've got, you know, of course I've got X trainers of mine. You know, people who worked for me, there's probably 30 gyms or PT studios around Melbourne that have people that.
Worked for me at some stage or with me at some stage, Tony Dodi is one of my mates. You know, there's a gym just up the road from me, a hundred meters away called sweat master a young guy called Leon's that I ran a fitness, which is down the road from me. Paul Morasco, who used to work for me, owns that. Um, there's a guy called Brad and his wife, Carly Cunningham, who owned the fit shops that friends of mine, um, You know, my God's son's parents own a gym in Cobram.
There's zero cases in Cobram. They haven't been able to open for months and these people are, I mean, and this is no news or revelation, so I don't want to bang on about the same stuff, but mentally and emotionally, these people are really struggling and it's, it's, it's hard to stay up when there's no apparent light at the end of the tunnel.
And I think what I reckon the, you know, Tony Dowdy did a really nice video about this and Peter credit and got him on her show. And they kind of had a sit down with the government or some representatives. And they said, well, what you need to do is get back to us with a little bit of a plan about how Jim's would re and you know, all the kind of taking into consideration, all the issues.
They got a whole team of people together. They created this amazing document. They presented it and base it basically got fresh air. So. I understand the frustration around this. Um, I understand the perceived fear of being in a gym as well, but, you know, well, I dunno, I find it. For example, I was talking to Ross who owns a gym up in Cobram, whether there is zero cases.
So his gym is about 8,000 square feet. Next door to his gym is a laundry mat, which is about one 20th of the size. Which is open for business and people are in and out of that all day, side-by-side washing and drying their clothes. I'm not saying they shouldn't be, but right next door, literally next door in the 8,000 square feet, he can't have 10 people in there, you know, and you just go, I get it.
And we can't go case by case, but it's really tough. And I mean, it's not just fitness. It's, you know, it's retail, it's cafes, it's restaurants. It's.
Josh Janssen: [00:11:40] Are you a political
Craig Harper: [00:11:41] guy? Do you get into politics? And so, cause that's what I find
Josh Janssen: [00:11:44] interesting is because like, uh, for
Craig Harper: [00:11:47] people who aren't into politics or don't necessarily have sides,
Josh Janssen: [00:11:51] it's, uh, it's interesting watching people communicate about these issues.
Um, you know, because they're human issues, but they have, obviously they come from politics in a lot of cases.
Craig Harper: [00:12:06] Yeah, look, I think what the world doesn't need is Craig Harper getting on a bloody soap box, uh, because there's just way too many people on way too many soap boxes. And, and I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm not judging them.
I for me, I, I understand the frustration, but I, I literally have people that follow me and I see their posts and their daily rants and yeah, no, I'm just, I get it. I go, that's just not a great use of your time or energy because it's not doing anything and I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying I would not do that.
If, if you know, somebody came out and said to me, somebody wrote on my timeline, cause I'm not speaking out about something. Your silence is violence. Fuck.
And, and, and I'm like, now what you're doing is your judging me. And you're pigeonholing me because I'm not doing what you want me to do. I'm not saying what you want me to say. So now you're trying to push me into a, a moral or an ethical or an obligatory corner where I'm going to speak out on an issue that you want me to speak out on.
Well, you know, newsflash, that's called bullying. Now you're just bullying me because I'm not doing what you want, you know, and it's. For me, social media is not the place to share political views and ideas. And I don't know that for me. Anyway, got to tell
Josh Janssen: [00:13:34] that that is what Instagram and Facebook has become that you think.
Craig Harper: [00:13:39] I'm not saying people shouldn't do it at all. Yeah, same for me. It doesn't interest me. Like for me it would create more anxiety. It would create more depression. It would create less time in my day. And I don't think for what I have going on in my world, that that is the best use of my time and energy. So I think a great question that we can all ask ourselves when we get up every day.
Is in terms of what I want to achieve shave today and do today, basically who I am and my values and my goals and my beliefs and what matters to me, what's the best use of my time today. And that just helps. That just helps find clarity, helps with finding clarity around. Okay. I can sit here for an hour going back and forth with this dude that disagrees with me, but things are gonna happen.
One, he wanted gray with me too. I want to agree with him. Sorry. We're both going to waste a fuckload of time and energy for I'm probably going to go away and I'm going to be pissed off and anxious. And then, then I'm going to look up. It's going to be five o'clock. I'm going to go. All of that was a good use of my afternoon.
Yeah, and this is about being conscious and aware of, of ourselves and our time and our energy.
Tommy Jackett: [00:14:54] And so the friends of yours that have gyms, who's, who's handling it in a way that you've, you've seen is really productive or a great use of their time.
Craig Harper: [00:15:07] Okay. So there, there are a few look. Most of them are having a crack.
Um, but. W bread and Collie Cunningham who owned the fit shop. Um, Which is in, I think it's in Sheldon. I know where it is, but I'm just wondering if that suburb is cultural and I'm pretty sure it is. It's just a Warrigal road, um, that really adapted amazingly. They've got an amazing online presence and they adjust as well as you can do in this situation.
They are doing, um, Paul Marasco a friend of mine who owns a reign of fitness in Bay road. He's basically building an outdoor gym. So that, because, so that you can train people outdoors. Now you can try. And I think it's a couple at a time. I think it's soon, it's going to go to 10. Um, me that I know is trying to do something, but you know, it's still, you're still limited and it's still a, it's still a compromise and people have, you know, I know people who, they, they had a rent reduction and now the rent is back to full.
So they're paying full rent once again, but they don't have essentially any income. Oh no. I mean, not mine estimation would be that 20 to 30% complete based on nothing. Except my gut 20 to 30% of PT studios will. Go on.
Tommy Jackett: [00:16:32] Well, I mean, you came in at a time when it was, it, it was on fire. You were at the start of that flood, where it was, you know, the PT studios opened up word doing really well.
And it's interesting seeing industries that do have the ebbs and flows, you know, um, photography in the early days was. You'd make a lot of money. And now the, you know, everyone's got a camera, not everyone does high end photography, but there's more photographers available now. So things
Josh Janssen: [00:17:00] you have to be, you have to be, I guess you need to do something different and something that stands out.
What is the, what's the difference in the
Craig Harper: [00:17:08] standing out
Josh Janssen: [00:17:09] in 2020 from a fitness perspective, do you think hops.
Craig Harper: [00:17:14] That's a great question. And it is Tommy you're right. When I started, I was very lucky. I worked really hard, but also I was lucky because I had no competition because there were no trainers. I think everyone, every industry, including fitness, Josh, we need.
We need a unique selling proposition. We need a point of difference. We need to go look, there are a million trainers. There are a million gyms. There are a million PT studios. There are a million bloody CrossFit centers. There are million outdoor bootcamp, commando training, whatever you want to call it, there needs to be something that separates you because if we're talking about firstly, if we're talking about an individual trainer and I had this conversation with a trainer the other day, um, It as, from the perspective of an individual trainer, what's good about being a trainer is you don't need a million clients think about this.
The average hourly rate give or take these days in Melbourne is about 80 bucks. So if you're working 30 hours a week now to me, 30 hours is a very part time job, and I'm sure 30 hours would be a very part time job for you too. But 30 times 80 is 2,400 bucks a week. That's 120 grand a year. That's not the worst gig right now.
Now, if you're doing 30 hours a week, you probably need 10 or 12 clients who are doing two or three sessions and you need them to keep turning up. Now, if you're a good trainer that I had had. You know, I, I, good train is the good trainers that I know, uh, booked out and they have a waiting list. So yeah, it's not so much like a lot of people go gear, but how do I get more people?
Or how do I, what's the marketing. I go be fucking awesome. The end. Cause if you're fucking awesome. Yeah, people are gonna want to be with you. It's not like, Oh, I've got the best dumbbells kettlebells tracksuit. I've got the best apps. I've got the best products. I've got the best marketing strategies. I've got the best fucking funnel, whatever a funnel
Josh Janssen: [00:19:13] is,
Craig Harper: [00:19:15] right.
It's like, Hey, from a fitness point of view, it's a human interactive experience. Now, if I go and train with Tommy, Tommy trying to play pro for a long time, if I go to Tommy and one. Tommy's a good dude. It gives a shit about me. He's a good trainer. I enjoy my time with him. I'm getting some results. That's enough.
I'll keep coming back. Unless he, it gives me a reason to not come back. I'm not going anywhere else. Because I have a relationship with this guy and it works. And by the way, I really liked being with him. Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:51] Julian actually in a relationship. I mean, I had the niche of Albert Park moms down Pat, and it worked for me.
Josh Janssen: [00:19:57] Yeah. Having coffees at one point, you just like switching out the session, like a PT session.
Tommy Jackett: [00:20:03] Tommy let's just go for coffee.
Josh Janssen: [00:20:05] Alright. Little
Craig Harper: [00:20:07] carrot.
Tommy Jackett: [00:20:07] Kay. That was at the back end, but Craig, to be honest, I think my perspective now about what I'd need to do is so much greater than what I had in the moment of training people.
Like when that was my job. And so I could imagine there's a lot of trainers feeling frustration about. Not being able to work out their point of difference, which can be hard when you're so in it. And you're trying to work out all these other problems. Like how the fuck do I even get a client or, you know, the first one of the first 10?
And so I feel like I, I mean, shifting careers at this point, there'll be a lot of people moving out out of the fitness industry to pursue something a bit different in. And I mean, you could look at this stuff. Maybe it's a sign. Maybe it's the time. I mean, for you you've, you've been doing the same thing for 45 years, 25 years.
You thought about a career shift.
Craig Harper: [00:21:09] I completely have not been doing the same thing 45 years. But what I mean is I've been a gym instructor. I've worked with elite sporting teams as a high performance coach. I've been a corporate speaker. I've been a TV presenter. I've been a radio host. I've been an author. I've been a podcaster. I've been a consultant for companies.
I've been a university lecturer. I've done a million things. And I think that's the thing is that as, as you and whether or not it's yeah. To the podcaster or you, the gym instructor or PT or you that as you evolve. So too, will your role. And, and I think, and I completely get what you're saying, but what I reckon is the next thing for, and I've been saying this for 20 years, like my first book was called fat attitude, which was essentially a book about the psychotic, terrible title.
I acknowledged terrible title, but it was about the psychology of getting in shape. In other words, it was a book saying that that changing your body is largely not about your body now. I think that this is the next, but this is the evolution for personal training is to, is to go beyond that where it's not just about sets and reps and progressive overload and energy systems and anatomy and physiology and all those things I've said before and nutrition and biomechanics, all of those things really matter.
But it's now where I'm not just working with bodies, I'm working with humans that live in bodies. That's the kind of, if we can start to bring together, the people in the fitness industry can start to go look, this is a multidimensional process. It is not just physical. Cool. And, but that takes forever skill and knowledge and study and understanding.
And that's different to, Oh, I just did a 15 week course. I'm a trainer now. Like this is where we need to go deep. And when you can become the person that can work with, with people, not just bodies, that is you can work with the anatomy, psychology, physiology, emotion behavior, decision-making, you know, planning, structure, process, accountability, all of the totality of the experience.
Then you make yourself invaluable because what people need more than our personal trainer per se is a big picture coach. That's what I think.
Tommy Jackett: [00:23:33] Yeah. I mean, you've been saying that since I've met you, like, I remember we weren't friends I'd come and see you speak and you'd say that same thing you were onto it back then.
It makes a
Craig Harper: [00:23:43] lot
Tommy Jackett: [00:23:43] more, I mean, that, is that a perspective before the, the industry was flooded and you still had that same perspective? It's only just coming true more so now at the time where we're needing to shift or bring more value.
Craig Harper: [00:24:04] Yeah, you're right. And I think what's happening is now we're understanding, especially now with mental health coming to the fore.
We're looking at health in a bigger way. You know, when we used to think health was, how far can you run? How high can you jump? How low is your heart rate? What's your blood pressure. Show us your six pack. You know, that was kind of analogous to, to the typical represent all he's healthy or she's fit or whatever it is.
And of course that's part of it. That will always be part of it. But. We know many people who are physically fit, but, um, you know, mentally and emotionally really struggling. And so, and not that we're pretending that, um, personal trainers are psychologists or doctors, of course not. But what it just means is having a bigger picture process than just sets and reps and carbs and protein, he with uh,
Josh Janssen: [00:24:57] osteos or, you know, different sort of health professionals.
The idea is that. Uh, you're not meant to go there forever. They're going to do some work. And then you transitioned to a point where you can have a normal life where you're not having to go to these medical, you know, or health professionals all the time from a T perspective. Is it different thing? Do you look at sort of the life cycle of a, of a customer and say, okay, after six weeks you shouldn't, you shouldn't need one or what's the deal?
Craig Harper: [00:25:30] That's a really good question. Now from a business perspective, tell me, I'll tell you, you want them forever. You know, if we were being a moral and unethical, we want to create a dependency problem. We don't really, but hang on. Where am I? I'm getting myself. Sorry. I'm out of shot, but, but. For me, my goal was always to help people become independent and self sustaining because when I do that, I'm, I'm teaching them and coaching them and empowering them to make great decisions and to build habits and behaviors that are sustainable and that are gonna work for them.
And so. I'm, I'm definitely not the solution or the answer over the longterm on my I'm a resource in the short term. And that could be three months. That could be three weeks or at times that might be three years. But look, if somebody gets to the point where they, they know what to do, The inspired, they're educated, they'd have a good operating system, but they still choose to train with a trainer.
Well, that's fine. That's fine. It's just, I don't think anyone needs to stay with a trainer for years, but it, people want that option because one, they can afford it. And two they're more productive and three. They really enjoy that. I like having that time out with that person that they know well to go through that process, then it doesn't need some, it doesn't have to be something that has a used by date.
Josh Janssen: [00:26:59] So how do you make sure that it doesn't become stale? What, what, what can PTs do so that, you know, after the six weeks or as their client starts to plateau, like what can you do to inject a longer term strategy?
Craig Harper: [00:27:16] One of the things. I mean, there's no, there's no absolute for that. But one of the things that I used to do with what a lot of my clients was, I would work in 28 day blocks.
And so every 28 days we would hit the pause button and we would do an assessment every 28 days, they would keep their diary. We would set KPIs or goals for the next 20th day block. We would sit down, we would review, we would literally have a meeting every 28 days and go, cool. This is what we've done in the last four weeks.
How you feeling? What do you think about this? What do you think about that? And I would give them my, basically my review of their performance. And I'd say your diet's been seven out of 10. You're getting stronger, which is really good. You're not having enough sleep. Um, everything's good. Your flexibilities rubbish.
I'd like to work on your flexibility or make that a little bit of a focus for the next 28 days. Dah, dah, dah. So what you're doing is. You're turning what can be a very, every stop study peaks and troughs, emotional process. Remember that when it comes to that food and exercise and people's body, they're very emotional or a lot of people are very emotional.
So what we want to do is try and turn down the emotion and turn up the strategy and logic so that we create a, what I'm interested in is creating an operating system, a behavioral system, a blueprint around. Health wellness, fitness, food, sleep lifestyle that works for people over the long term. And so sometimes chunking and into 28 day blocks is good because it creates continuity.
But it's also what I like about that number is it seems to be long enough to get results, but short enough to stay a little bit excited and focused. And then
Tommy Jackett: [00:28:57] he gets a stop and then go, well, let's go again. So you have that new focus.
Craig Harper: [00:29:02] That's right. And I think that's one of the things with not just with training, but with business, with relationships, with life.
I think it's really good to take a stock, take every one, you know, even with, you know, Melissa and I, even with our show with our podcast, which is definitely not as good as the daily talk show, but we have meetings on a regular basis and go, what do you think about. Who were getting on numbers? How we going?
How long should the show be? What's too long. What's too short because when you're in the middle of it, you know, the myth is a famous book by a guy called Gerber who talks about the concept of, and I might have mentioned it once before here, where you can't work on the business and in the business. So it's good to be able to hit the pause button a bit and step back a little and try and find the level of perspective about what's going on right now.
And I think that. You know, having a process and, and whatever your passionate drive or emotional is great. But then to be able to wrap some strategy around that, And to have a, a moment in time time, whether it's in your business or your podcast or your fitness journey, where you're regularly stopping and doing some kind of objective review or assessments to evaluate efficacy of the program, or the process is a really good thing to do because it's so easy to wake up in a minute and go, I just fucking went into service cause for two years.
And that's what so many people do with so much of their life. Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:30:30] I mean, it's, it can be challenging when it isn't yet working. And so the emotion involved. In, in your approach is much higher for you think back to a time when you felt like it wasn't working just yet. And was that there was that there?
Did you have the perspective to say I've got to stop look?
Craig Harper: [00:30:54] No, no, definitely not. I mean, there were times where I wanted to throw the glow mesh in the shag pile and fucking stamp my feet. And I did, and times
Tommy Jackett: [00:31:02] I, that metaphor with the glow mesh what's that.
Craig Harper: [00:31:05] Well, do you guys way too young back in the old days, the ladies used to have purses mesh, which was like this.
Do you know what glow mesh is? It's like, Oh my God, you too.
Tommy Jackett: [00:31:18] Is it like changing? My
Craig Harper: [00:31:19] mom had one, I think. Yes. Yes. Oh, kinder. Just Google glow mesh perse. You'll see one, all our, all our 50 year old ladies are going. I fucking know exactly
Tommy Jackett: [00:31:31] what, Oh my God. I love feeling this thing. You'd like to move it one way you could run your
Josh Janssen: [00:31:36] fingers through it.
Craig Harper: [00:31:39] Sorry. So, and, and, and the shag pile, of course being the carpet of the day, which was long, hairy kind of carpet. Yeah. So the, so the throwing the glow mission, the shag call is analogous to spitting the dummy.
Josh Janssen: [00:31:54] You said still don't get it, but I love the purse, but so the idea is that you're throwing a purse that is has,
Craig Harper: [00:32:04] okay.
So look at it as cracking the shits, Josh.
Josh Janssen: [00:32:08] Yeah. Yeah. I hear the cracking. The, I understand the, like you've cracked it and you've thrown the thing. I'm just not sure on the. The cut the texture of the car, like what the carpet and the person doing together, but we don't need to get bogged down.
Craig Harper: [00:32:24] Can I just say you're overthinking this
Josh Janssen: [00:32:27] look, I am on Google images and I think, yeah, I think you're right.
Uh, so w what was the question again? Where were we?
Tommy Jackett: [00:32:35] Oh, you'd throw it away.
Craig Harper: [00:32:38] Oh, no, tell me it was base. Tell me it was just talking about when I've done things that didn't work, and there's been many times where you do things and you go fuck up a lot of time and effort, and I'm getting next to no results.
And so that's, that's a normal part of, you know, that happens with weight loss that happens with business. That happens with. Academia. I spent the first two and a half months in my PhD on a certain topic, which was motivation. And I got 10 or 12 weeks into the journey and I just went, this is not going to work because there are too many variables and there's too much conflict.
And, and so I spent three months working hard and researching hard. And then completely scrapped all of it and started literally three months in. I restarted my PhD with a completely unrelated topic.
Josh Janssen: [00:33:29] Where was the conflict with it?
Craig Harper: [00:33:31] Well, there was, I mean, see, when I talk about motivation, um, And when we talk about motivation generally in society, when you're talking about weight loss and fitness and transformation, you go, you know, um, motivations are really important, plays a really important role.
And generally when we talk about motivation, we're talking about that emotional state, he is motivated. She is motivated. Um, I heard Josh and Tommy on the podcast and I got motivated. I got inspired. I, you know, I'm pumped up in the zone. I'm excited. So that they're. Generally the common sus are the common kind of understanding is that motivation is an emotional state that we get into.
But in the literature, motivation is pretty much interchangeable with the word reason. So when they talk about motivation, his motivation for going to work. Was to earn money, to pay bills, to support his family, her family, or whatever the case. Yeah. That's really interchangeable with his reason or her reason for going to work was to blah, blah, blah.
And so. I spent so much time trying to get people to understand what type of motivation I was talking about, that there was a real kind of definition problem. And I thought I'm going to spend a half of my three and a half year, full time PhD process, trying to explain to people what this term is.
Josh Janssen: [00:34:55] So what did you change?
Craig Harper: [00:34:57] Uh, change to a thing called yeah. External self-awareness, which is essentially you understanding the you experience. Tommy's probably been bored to death with this, but that's your ability to be able to understand Josh, what. It's like being around Josh for other people. And so, and, and the point of this is when I can understand what it's like being around me, not from a point of view of insecurity or self-loathing or paranoia or ego, but rather just self-awareness when I understand what it's like being around me for others.
Then I can create bit of connection, our concur. I can have better conversations. I can resolve conflict easily and hopefully have less conflict and solve problems and be a better part of a team and all of those things. So it's called external self-awareness and it's under a very big umbrella of.
Different self awareness constructs self-awareness can be public private. That can be internal, external, but yeah, essentially, if you go what's, what's it like being around me, I call it the you experience. That's pretty much the, the study of my, um, the focus of my PhD.
Josh Janssen: [00:36:11] Can you identify self-awareness when you're speaking to someone, what's the sign of someone that's self-aware versus not.
Craig Harper: [00:36:21] That's good. So there are lots of what we call correlates things that relate to that. One of the strongest correlates with self awareness is emotional intelligence. Um, and so you might find someone who will pick up something mid conversation or mid, uh, you know, experience. Well, mid situation where they correct themselves or pick them.
I'm sorry, that sounded egotistical. It didn't mean that, or, sorry, I didn't mean that they might say something that they think in the moment, or that could be construed as. Hurtful or insulting and those, so they'll correct themselves or apologize, Val, Val realize that they're talking too much. And so they'll regulate their behavior to talk less and listen more and be more present and more attentive.
So self awareness is really in the moment awareness of my emotions and my feelings and my behaviors. And. The appropriateness of how I am in this moment with others.
Tommy Jackett: [00:37:25] Can I give you a head of Loch Kelly? He's a meditation teacher. Um, he's written a bunch of books and he dives deep into the awareness and, and from what I.
Have gathered from listening to his talks is the, the awareness that's beyond the thinking. So it's the thought that I am self-aware because I understand my floor or whatever it be, but then that layer beyond the thinking level of awareness, the experience. Of awareness
Craig Harper: [00:37:59] and yeah, that's where you become.
Yeah, go on. Sorry.
Tommy Jackett: [00:38:03] The deep level of living in the state of awareness versus the thought of awareness, I think he calls it like the, um, you know, that's self awareness is like a protection custody. Uh, you understand what's happening in your head and you're thinking about it all, but then there's a place beyond it.
It's um, he's fat. Yeah. It's really fascinating. Sounds like exactly what you're diving deep into,
Josh Janssen: [00:38:29] but it also seems interesting hops. What you're describing is like a level of communication as well, to the self awareness. Do you find that external self awareness and communication skills are intertwined?
Craig Harper: [00:38:44] Um, yes. So let me just, I'm going to come back to that in one sec. Just quickly on yours, yours, Tommy. So in, in a lot of philosophy and a lot of Eastern kind of teaching, um, In Buddhism, this is very much a thing. And also just perchance in the writings of Eckhart Tolle and lots of other spiritual teachers.
And you would have heard this term, they talk about being the observer of your thoughts, right? So it's having an awareness of thought where you're not trapped in your own thought, but it's almost like from the outside, looking in, you are aware of how you are thinking. And there's, there's a, there's a construct that's close to this in psychology, which is called metacognition.
Cognition metacognition is thinking about thinking. Um, yeah, so it's, it is really, and that's where we start to step out of the chaotic mind and into stillness and consciousness. And that's very much in the meditation space. I'm sorry, Josh, what did you ask
Josh Janssen: [00:39:45] me? Communication. Like, I think it was interesting how, what you're talking about there is not just the awareness.
In the moment of saying I'm feeling this way or I've cut that person off or whatever it is, it's also about communicating it. So the, the idea of external self awareness and communication skills, what sort of the what's the connection. Between those
Craig Harper: [00:40:12] two. Okay. I'll give you, yeah, that's a great question. So I'll give you a really easy example.
So I got asked to do a big F a gig for a really big private company. And yeah, the guy happened to be a guide. This is not giving away too much. Who owned the company, his assistant kind of head of staff coordinator. You know, a lady who was amazing. She, I did all the back and forth with her. We had a conference, there was about 700 people at this conference.
Um, and I was doing a full day with them and going in, I was told, okay, so here are the EV every company braced me on what. Why they're bringing me in. And that would bring me in for just a lot of general kind of let's, let's get a bit pumped and excited and let's talk about inspiration and outcomes and hot performance and, you know, communication and all that normal stuff.
But our challenges are, there are a few kind of cultural issues and the energy's not always great. And you know, there's a few kind of, there's a bit of disconnection between some of the stuff, and there are a few, you know, all of this kind of stuff. And they, the boss, the big boss who I hadn't met or spoken to, he wanted to meet with me on the day.
So I started speaking at about nine. He wanted to meet with me at eight and give me a brief of what he thought needed to happen. I'm like no problems. So I go to this venue and I meet with him in this little office, not a little office, an office, somewhere we're chatting and within about the heart, I would say one minute I went, Oh, I found the problem, everyone that's up here in this office, right?
Because this dude was, he, he had. Very very little of what he was like. He was quite belligerent. He was quite rude. It was quite passive aggressive. He was really judgmental. He had very little, a little emotional intelligence or awareness he seemed to, and this is all sounds a bit judgy on my part, but this was my assessment.
Very little empathy, and honestly seem to care primarily about the business and the bottom line. And, and like his staff were really just, uh, a necessary kind of pot and I'm like, dude, and anyway, so we're talking is telling me about, you know, they're ungrateful, they're this they're that it doesn't matter what I do they'd bitch and they need to understand how good they have it.
And I'm like, fuck the mill. Anyway. So he goes through this whole monologue. And then I'll go. Cool. And he goes, what do you think? I'll go. Yeah, sure. I go, I want to ask you something. And he looks at me like, well, you can't ask me anything. And I go, what do you think? It's like being around you guys, what you guys want.
I go, what do you think it's like being around you, you guys, what do you mean? I go, do you think people like being around you. And he was fucked off. And I said, I said, I said, I'm going to tell you. And I said, in a nice way, if I do this or don't, I don't, you know, I said, you you're paying me lots to be here.
I'm going to, I'm going to tell you that you are intimidating. I'm sure you're a good dude. And you're smart. You've built this amazing company. Well done. But I'm not intimidated by you, but people would be intimidated by you. And what I'm telling you now, people don't tell you because they're scared. And I said, having, having a business, uh, or, or a team of people who do what they're told or comply, because they're intimidated or scared, I go that is going to breed a terrible culture.
And I said, you need to understand that the way that you see things is only you. And he was, and he got, he was pretty upset and we went round in circles. I said, look, I'm not saying you're a bad person. You're not a bad person. I said, but what you don't understand is anyone else's perspective other than your own.
I said, you need to understand what it's like being around you so that you can create connection with people. You don't even need to agree with everyone. Of course, you know, but you need to understand people. And if you're going to be a leader, if you're going to be in any position where you've got.
Hundreds of personalities and human beings and emotions and stories and backgrounds that work with you and for you, and you don't have any compassion or understanding you think everyone who doesn't think like you as wrong, I go, that's a problem. What's your
Tommy Jackett: [00:44:53] heart rate at that point? What do you reckon you're running?
Craig Harper: [00:44:56] Oh, look, I kind of thought he's probably gonna tell me he didn't tell me to fuck off, but anyway, at the end of the day, he called me in and he said, tell, talk to me a little bit more about that. And I said, look, and he didn't really, he wasn't a bad person at all. He just didn't have any awareness of anyone.
Else's. Feelings or any insight like it was, this sounds weird. Almost like, like a sociopath, not a bad human, just no empathy. And the funny thing is, I don't know how accurate these stats are, but taken with a grain of salt, but I've heard it a few times that about 3% of the population of sociopath, not psychopaths, social paths that is.
So psychopaths tend to take pleasure in other people's pain. We're not talking about that, but social paths just to seem, seem to have they're very self-interested and they seem to have very little awareness about anyone else's perspective or emotions or feelings. Now, my research tells me that about 3% of the population.
So three and a hundred are a bit sociopathic. But also what we know is that about 20% of CEO's are sociopaths, right? So a lot of them are highly effective at doing business and they're highly intelligent, quite often, they're creative and quite often they're charismatic, but they don't always care about people.
And this is the thing is the challenges. When you're in a lead, we've gone all over the shop that I have. But when you're in that position of leadership where you've got a bunch of humans who are part of your reality, um, of course when it's strategy, when a planning we need, you know, when a KPI's we need accountability, we need processes and we need hard work and all that stuff.
But you also need a captain of the ship be that male or female that understands people and cares. And this isn't always the case.
Tommy Jackett: [00:46:58] Yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:46:59] The, um, what you describing there is sort of influence as well, because you need to be influential in life. You need a level of self awareness. You need to understand what is it that the people that I'm speaking to right now are seeking?
What do they need? What have you learnt about influence over the years?
Craig Harper: [00:47:21] Yeah, that's, that's a very insightful question. So me, my job is communication. And as is your job in many ways is just talking to people about stuff and. Yeah. My biggest project is me. My biggest problem is me. Um, and so I've been very, probably to my own detriment at times, but very self critical.
And I've always said to people, you can't criticize me as much as I criticize me. So do your best. So I don't have a high opinion of it me, but I've always, I've always been aware that. I'm constantly, if you're in front of an audience, whether that's a podcast audience or a corporate audience in a room or radio audience or whatever, if you're in front of any audience you're being evaluated and judged, it doesn't matter if you don't like that.
That's what's happening because evaluating and judging people. Yeah. Um, unavoidable we'll do it every time we walked down the street, when somebody walks towards us based on. Their appearance will be making some kind of judgment. That doesn't mean we're bad people, but if it's a dodgy looking guy, who's six foot five in a trench coat who looks like he looks a bit terrifying.
There's a fair chance. We're not going to make eye contact. There's a fair chance. We might even cross the road. If it's a couple of teenage girls who are looking at their phone, just stumbling down the street or just chatting happily or whatever. Fair chance. We're not going to be worried or intimidated.
And it's not that we're trying to judge anyone. It's just that this is part of the human experience. And so I realized that, you know, early on when I started lecturing Vic fit courses a hundred years ago, so people who wanted to become gym instructors, one of the common bits of feedback that I got. And they would fill out evaluation forms and feedback forms at the end was, you know, there was some good stuff.
Craig nosy stuff is a bit funny as a good storyteller, you know, blah, all that stuff. But the negative that I often got was Craig's intimidating. And I'm like, but I'm like fucking Humphrey BB. I'm the friendliest person in the world. How could people be intimidated? And I, at first I went, wow, that's just someone who's precious fucker, which in itself is an intimidating response, you know?
And then I realized, Oh, okay. Cause it's not about, so here's the thing. It's not about the intention. It's about the other person's experience. So that's why, for example, subjective reality. So, you know, I could have five people in front of me and I'm coaching five people. And what I think I'm giving those five people in this moment in time is insight and direction and positive feedback and a bit of wisdom and whatever.
That's what I think I'm giving them, that's my intention. But what those people might be getting in inverted commas is judgment and negativity and criticism, and a whole, whole bunch of negative stuff based on what they think is going on, because you've got to remember, and this is going to be too, but you got to remember that.
Like even now, if you guys have, I know you have thousands of people that listen to your show, but let's just pick a number. Let's go 5,000 people listened to this conversation, right? So 5,000 people is 5,000 egos, 5,000 personalities, 5,000 programs. Everybody's been programmed, five different, uh, beliefs, 5,000 different sets of beliefs.
And so everyone brings all of that to every moment in time. And so I'm always looking at. Every conversation or every interaction or every experience in my life, through the window of my values and beliefs and understanding. And so it's really important that, that we are self aware enough to know this is not the truth.
This is just my version of the truth. This is not absolute. This is just what I think is absolute. How do you
Josh Janssen: [00:51:23] empathize is how do you empathize with 5,000 different stories? Like, obviously there's like cognitive overload at that point. And how do you distill it to a point where you can move forward and communicate.
Craig Harper: [00:51:36] So one of, I don't think there's a single answer to that, but one of the things that I do constantly is I constantly put in a disclaimer when I'm teaching and sharing and I'm coaching a lot of people. And I say, I'm going to share my thoughts and ideas and experiences and strategies that I believe, uh, pretty broadly relevant.
However, I'm not telling you individually to do anything. That's your responsibility. Right. I can't connect correct optimally with 5,000 humans, um, because everybody responds differently. But what I can do is say, look, I'm going to tell you what, based on my 35 years of 40 years of working with humans, all different bodies and shapes and sizes and personalities and backgrounds and, and reasons for showing up.
I'm going to tell you what I've learned. I'm going to tell you what I believe to be true or broadly. True. I'm going to tell you what I understand, and I'm going to tell you what I think I'm going to tell you what worked for me and some of the people that I worked with. And then if in the middle of that, you find what you think is some wisdom or some truth, then type that for test drive, and then see how that goes for you.
Cause I can't take responsibility for people's outcomes. Only my own.
Tommy Jackett: [00:52:54] Hmm. And so when it's, when you're not connecting with people, um, and you're just getting into it, you're getting into, you know, the similar game to what you're in. Is it that what you're saying isn't working or you're not interpreting what people are experiencing when they're around you?
Like, what have you picked up from knowing what works when speaking to large amounts of people?
Craig Harper: [00:53:22] Yeah. Um, so for me, it's very much about knowing and being comfortable with the idea that I could be wrong and being transparent about that and being well, especially in Australia, Australian audiences do not like arrogance.
They do not like. Australian audiences up, and this is gonna sound funny coming from me, but they're not massive fans of self-help or personal development. They're not bad, but it's not like the States I've spoken in the States maybe 50 times. And it's, it's a different dynamic. It's a different energy.
It's a different population. They're very, very receptive and Australians have become more receptive over the years, but you've just got to be aware that. You are not going to connect with everyone. You're not going to resonate with everyone. And so for me, I go look, all I can do is be honest and genuine.
And if you like me and I resonate great. If I don't and you don't like me, I don't resonate with you. There's lots of other people. And I mean that respectfully, so unfollow me. Don't listen to me. Don't buy my books. Don't come to my workshops. It's all. Okay. There are lots of other awesome people out there.
That you will connect with. So just, you know, let's not spend too much time wasting or wasted on trying to connect with every person I still get. I mean, I still get a mix of messages that range from your fucking amazing you changed my life, which I haven't changed anyone's life, by the way, through to you're a fucking idiot.
How did you even get this? You know, and everything. I don't know if I told you this, but I, I literally had a phone call, not a phone call or an email from a guy who said, I want to put you in a set. I want to put you in a military plane and fly you over an active volcano and drop you in it.
Josh Janssen: [00:55:19] Very specific, detailed.
Craig Harper: [00:55:20] Yeah. I'm like, wow. Wow. They must be in the military. But anyway, fit aside D wasn't a big fan. I'm like, all right, dear Brian, thanks for your beat feedback. All the best.
Josh Janssen: [00:55:32] I think the thing is like with you, harps is you are what's what's on the, on the packaging. You are what's, you know, on the, on the box. And so I think that that's, what's great is it's clear it's it's with all the facts, like it's very obvious what your communicating.
I think that that's why you're able to build such an engaged. Uh, audience is because there's the, what you communicate out there. What's on the, you know, on the cover of the book and then what's in the content what's on the podcast. It's very consistent. I feel like that's the, that's the, the aim of the game.
Craig Harper: [00:56:12] I think, I think not being gift, like I I'm very upfront about my mediocrity and you know, I wasn't, I'm not genetically gifted. I wasn't a brilliant student. Um, technically technologically inept. Um, I'm not amazing at anything and I'm completely okay with that because. But I've worked with amazing people and I've worked with gifted people and I've worked with genetic freaks and I've worked with the spectrum of humanity.
But me being mediocre has really kept me working hard and it's kept me grounded because I don't get ahead of myself because I don't have a big opinion of myself. But what I have discovered in the last few years is. The more real and raw and vulnerable. I am with people publicly where I go. Yeah, I do that too.
Um, yep. And not in a false, a false way, but in a yep. I always think sometimes too. Uh, yep. I make bad decisions. Sometimes that's my ego going for a run. Sometimes I'm defensive. When I shouldn't be, sometimes I make shit decisions and then make excuses for my shit decisions. Some, you know, all of those very human things, things.
When you talk about your flaws and faults in a real way, and you go, yeah, look, I'm helping people and I've got some thoughts and ideas that. Might potentially serve you. But at the same time, I don't have my shit together. Just thought you should know some people are, Oh, thank God for that. Somebody that's because people relate to you.
Like I had a lady on recently who again, might be nice for you guys to have a chat with her. Name's dr. Jody Richardson and her specialty is working with people with, um, mental health issues, specifically anxiety, anxiety, depression. A lot around anxiety, which is obviously a very big conversation right now, but what's fascinating is that she's written books.
She's a speaker, she's a specialist, she's got a PhD and she suffers from chronic anxiety disorder and she's medicated. And she takes meds occasion every day for her anxiety and understanding how anxiety works. Doesn't take the anxiety away. So, and what I love about her is here's this person who's intelligent and educated and passionate and, and articulate, but also has her own business struggle.
And so it has double the impact. It's not just some person talking from some academic or theoretical construct. It's like, okay, well, here's the theory. Here's the idea. Here's some strategies, but by the way, This is how I live and operate too. And as soon as you open that door on authenticity of authenticity, I think there's much greater connection.
Josh Janssen: [00:59:13] Yeah. It makes sense. The other thing that I've found to have light is, um, yeah, when you're not feeling good, you're feeling down or you're feeling anxious, the, um, you know, that there's a need or a desire to understand what it is like to pinpoint. Like my girlfriend Bree would be like, Oh, what do you think it is?
And I had an answer the other day where I was like, Oh, I think I'm just like, Uh, chemically a little bit imbalanced today. It was just like, I felt like it was a great. Why of communicating? It's actually like, there's probably nothing. Like if nothing's happened between the time I went to bed and the time I woke up, so it's all a little bit fucked up.
We don't know what it is, but like I'm gonna, you know, go for a walk and drink some water and look after myself and I'll feel better. And, um, yeah, there's, I think that the more we are communicating and sharing our stories. The more, we're able to not only normalize these things, but empower people to, uh, be, be self aware.
Like I think it comes back to the self awareness piece, uh, in a lot of ways, being able to say, Oh no, I'm not feeling I'm actually not feeling good right now,
Craig Harper: [01:00:24] a hundred percent. And there's often we don't, that's a quite an interesting thing. You said Josh, because. You know, we are basically chemical making machines.
Like we, our body is always producing chemicals, hormones, whatever you want to call them. You know? Um, we, we run on chemicals, um, and you know, sometimes there's something going on with our endocrine system or our nervous system, or, you know, your endocrine system, your nervous system. Your cardiovascular system, your spiritual system, everything's intertwined all the time.
Even you, even your, your cognition. If you have a, if you have a thought, which is a, a thought based on something negative, then you're all of a sudden, if you go fuck I'm in danger and you're not actually in danger at all, but you have that thought, um, all of a sudden there's a bunch of chemicals run around your body just cause you had a thought so.
Yeah. And that's the thing is that I, I still believe the biggest challenge apart from in first world countries. Anyway, um, I think the biggest overall challenges to be able to manage our mind because your mind is essentially the platform, you know, on an interpersonal level and a personal level. Think about like, whether your choices, your behaviors, your words, your, um, your stories, uh, your, your, uh, the way that you process the world around you, the way that you act and interact and all of that.
Comes from the mind. You're not accidentally eating cake. You're not accidentally telling someone to get fucked. You're not accidentally staying in bed or you're not accidentally going to the gym and training. These are all byproducts of choices.
Tommy Jackett: [01:02:05] And then there's a version of understanding that the thinking stuffies.
In some respects out of our control. Like when some of the meditation I do is like, have a thought about something. And then why did you think of that? Something you didn't choose to think of that something, it just floated in like a cloud into your, your mind and you're able to observe it. And so when you're lying in bed and yet.
All of a sudden thinking about shit, that's making you anxious. It's like, fuck. At that point, how much ownership over that thought that flew in? Do I even have, and so I think you're right. It's like,
Josh Janssen: [01:02:43] is that management though, TJ, like, I wonder if it like, cause the manager has this idea that you can sort of pull these leavers and sort of control the, the ship that is our brain, um, there's
Tommy Jackett: [01:02:55] of strategies of when it does happen.
Then you can start acting upon, you know, moving, like you said, moving your body, all those tactics that helped shift it. But if we're handing over that, it's wow. I'm actually, there's a whole bunch. I will cannot control because you can't control what you think you thinking is happening. Regardless of whether you're choosing or not, not choosing
Craig Harper: [01:03:25] you're right.
Tommy. So there's conscious thinking and unconscious thought. So one of my, one of the kind of mantras in this space is that thinking happens because of you and thinking happens despite you, right. And John, dr. Joe Dispenza, who you both probably heard of, he bangs on all the time about, you know, the fact that we have 70,000 thoughts a day and 95% of those thoughts that we had, we had yesterday.
And, and there's, you know, some of the thoughts that we all have, those thoughts where you go with that comes, like, how did, how was that? Even in my mind, you know, where you guys, this is, I don't even think like that. Like why would I, you know, some of the dreams that you have, do you, like, where does that come from?
But, and that's it, that's where you go, you know? And that's part of the thing that you talked about before with meditation. Tommy is recognizing, okay. Here's a thought, this is, this is a little analogy I'll to some of my students clients. So go, so think about this and this sounds weird, but go with me. So let's say that your mind is like a service station.
It's like a petrol station. And then into that petrol station, that's nothing there. It's all clear a car pulls in and that car is a thought. And you're just standing off to the side at this petrol station and you see that car pull in. That's a thought pulling into your mind and you right now, you're the observer of that car slash thought.
Now you can walk over and you can. Open the door and you can jump into that and you can become one with it now, you and it connected. And now you're heading off together on this journey, or you can stay back, watch the car, pull in, and then watch it pull out in a minute or two and just see it drive away where you haven't connected.
You haven't become, you haven't jumped into it. And this is what this happens all the time and our mind where crazy shit slides in you go, Oh, that's weird. I dunno where that comes from. Okay. Um, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna go down some cognitive rabbit hole for the next three hours about that. I'm just going to go, okay, Craig, you're a piece of shit.
Uh, am I not? Oh, well, whatever. Alright, well, I can ruminate that on, on that for the next half hour where I don't need to. And this is, this is where we start to. Step out of just the unconscious craziness of incessant thought and into the consciousness of meditation and awareness and stillness and recognition of thought as being, not me.
So thoughts are not me, I think, but I am not the thought. The thought is just a theoretical construct that has no power at all. Unless I give it power.
Josh Janssen: [01:06:13] The car is compelling though, isn't it? Like, there are moments where like, there's something like if you get me on the right day or whatever, like the entering into the negativity and even knowing, like having the awareness to know, Hey, I know that this isn't a productive, but I'm going to bitch about, uh, this person where I know that I'm being part of the problem or I'm like, I even have to say it to Bray.
I'm like, I know that I'm being completely unreasonable. And, um, but can I just, I'm just going to bitch about this thing, um, because of like, it feels like it, and it doesn't, you don't even feel good after it, but it's something that you feel like you need to get into the car.
Craig Harper: [01:06:55] I feel like it's that car that pulls into your brain is a Tesla.
You're going to get jumped in at Josh.
Josh Janssen: [01:07:00] Yeah, definitely. And sometimes the negative. Thoughts or the, um, you know, if it's like, if it's a stat, like maybe it's that, um, ego depletion, you know, the idea that we only have a certain amount of willpower in a day. And so it's like, I think that sometimes, maybe it's the, the willpower's gone or you've dealt, you're tired or whatever it is that you it's like.
Uh, you know what, like, I can't, you know, I need willpower to be able to not turn that way. You look at like social media. It's like, we. Negativity screams louder than positivity in this world. When we see a negative comment on it through email, we feel like we need to respond yet. We get dozens of emails saying that they love something.
So it's, it's, it's interesting how our wines gravitate towards negativity.
Craig Harper: [01:07:54] And I think this brings us back full circle almost to the discussion of, or the idea of self awareness. And that is you recognizing how you respond to different things. And even down to, you know, sometimes where there's like this, this kind of overload or exhaustion where.
You know, we get to the point, it's four o'clock in the afternoon and I've been banging since, you know, no, I'm hard at it and I'm okay. Now I'm just, I'm running into a physical and an emotional and a mental kind of brick wall. Um, and that is part of self awareness where you go, like, I know that between like you guys, if, if we had time, we could go, when are you the most productive and you you're going to go well for me between 7:00 AM and that, or that, or you might go.
You know what between 9:00 PM and two I'm a fucking killer. Right. But for someone else that isn't the case, and this is knowing how you work. Like it's only in the last six months that I've realized that for me, not eating lunch works way better than eating lunch. Cause I used to, I used to get this overwhelm of tiredness and fatigue at about three or four every day.
I'm like, wow. It must be, cause I'm getting older, but I don't drink. I don't smoke. I eat well. I, I sleep well. I'm I'm fit as fuck. I'm like, so I just started manipulating with the one last variable and, and I stopped actually when covert started. Cause I'm moving less because of the situation that I'm in.
And as soon as I removed. Lunch. So I breakfast. And then by the way, this is not a recommendation, anyone or a prescription. This is just what works for me. But I went right now, I breakfast and now I dinner, nothing else,
Josh Janssen: [01:09:39] something sweet or something. Sweet.
Craig Harper: [01:09:43] No your four year old,
Josh Janssen: [01:09:44] no piece of fruit.
Craig Harper: [01:09:48] I just, for me, my brain works better when I'm not eating through the day.
My cognitive function is, and right now my brain is super important because of my study and my work. And so any. Any kind of cognitive advantage I can get, I want, and, but not only. And the funny thing is that now that I do that, I'm never hungry. I'm not breakfast at seven, seven 30. I have absolutely zero hunger ever.
So four or four 30 is generally
Josh Janssen: [01:10:22] isn't. What do you think? Is it the actual food or is it the you've taken it from 70,000 decisions a day to 40,000? Because you're not thinking about when am I going to have. My lunch or what am I going to eat? Like, do you think it's actually the fuel that you put in or is it the psychological impact of not having to worry about the food for you?
Craig Harper: [01:10:44] Not for me, it's, it's 100% physiological my body and my brain. Cause you obviously, your brain isn't is an organ. It's it's physical. It's a physiological thing. Um, And for me, it's just, I just feel physic my energy, my concentration, my memory, my ability to connect and commute. So if we had have done this, this podcast a year ago, I'd, I'd be hitting a bit of a cognitive wall about now, but yeah, for me, it's just, and, but that's just learning about your body.
And I honestly believe I might have said this once before to you guys, but I reckon. We should all spend our lives or some of our lives, you know, doing trial and error on ourselves. Like what works for me, what works best for me. And that could be everything from what works best for me in terms of relationships, ships, to, to Korea, to food, to sleep, to hydration, to, you know, do I like working in nature?
Do I like working in doors? Do I. You know, we all try to find the best operating system that works optimally for us. And, you know, it's like I realized when I was 18, 19, 20 years old, I'm not going to have a boss for very long because I'm not good at having a job and a boss. I wasn't lazy and I was to work.
But, and so, yeah, I haven't had a boss since I was 26, which was 31 years ago. So again, all of this is about. Self awareness and self regulation. Self-management
Josh Janssen: [01:12:24] like, I've
Tommy Jackett: [01:12:25] dropped,
Josh Janssen: [01:12:25] I've dropped lunch from lunch. I'm doubling down just to check, say how my buddy goes. Yeah. With a double lunch and then I'll take one out every,
Craig Harper: [01:12:35] yeah.
Awesome. Can you have, I reckon you have a really interesting relationship with food, Josh.
One day, we're going to do a whole episode just on you and your writing, and we're going to do a deep dive and I think there'll be two.
Josh Janssen: [01:12:49] Yeah, I'll definitely make there already is a congratulations on the new project. I know over the last six months you've had crazy amount of growth and, um, yeah, it's, it's awesome to, uh, to see you, uh, really getting into the platform and giving people what they need in the podcasting space.
It's been awesome.
Craig Harper: [01:13:09] Well, I appreciate you boys. And I've been listening to you guys recently quite a lot, and I'm not just saying this because we're here. I was thinking, why do I like listening to you too? Um, and your guests, it's just very, do you know what you're, your podcast is just really easy to listen to.
Like I can do other shit and just have you guys in my ears. And it's kind of a good vibe. And there's, you know, there's not many, there are some times I want to listen to a podcast where, okay, this is, we're talking about neuroscience, so we're going deep, but it's like work. But for you guys, it's kind of like a new one.
Understand this, cause you're too young, but it's kind of like watching Gilligan's Island. It's just a, it's just, it's just easy.
Josh Janssen: [01:13:54] You, when you go mash purse, just listening to
Craig Harper: [01:13:56] them.
Josh Janssen: [01:14:00] Can
Craig Harper: [01:14:00] you like Steve likes? It's not all about that. It's not all about iPhone. I found 32
Josh Janssen: [01:14:06] years. We're definitely going to get your, you should actually do the you project glow mesh purse, as I'm sure you could get them, get them made for guests.
Tommy Jackett: [01:14:16] All right. Good. My mom still has bad. I'm going to
Craig Harper: [01:14:17] get it out.
Get it out of there. Can somebody send, can somebody send these boys some information on glow mesh? Because they definitely
Josh Janssen: [01:14:28] South outside of purses. What else did they make? Like what did they. Use the material for
Craig Harper: [01:14:35] a, there were dresses made out of glow mesh. It was, it was a fashion thing for a long time.
Also a fashion thing for a long time, which you boys missed was, um, you would have seen corduroy cord pants that were, they were the shit, but cord pants 2.0, you're ready. It's called jumbo cord. And it was just really thick jumbo chords when they came out. Oh dude, Google jumbo calls, which is ironic. Uh, I'm going to go 75, 76.
See if you can, uh, see if you can find something in that jumbo chords Pat.
Josh Janssen: [01:15:14] I mean, they also did, um, cause they were typically vertical weren't they? But I think that some brands were doing. Horizontal corduroy as well.
Craig Harper: [01:15:23] That was not. That's ridiculous.
Josh Janssen: [01:15:25] That's
Craig Harper: [01:15:27] well, I'd say, I'll tell you what else was a thing back in the day too?
Um, I'm now we've got to end button platform shoes for dudes. We call them beetle crushes back in the day. So they'd have literally like a. A three and a half inch heel at the back and then a platform at the front about an inch and a half. So yeah, I would
Josh Janssen: [01:15:47] share it. Do you have any photos the other day?
Like there's the fashion was Ben.
Craig Harper: [01:15:53] Yeah. You guys missed out on all the awesome, just, but it was just like equal parts. Ridiculous and awesome.
Josh Janssen: [01:16:01] What about gym wear? What were they work? Like? What were you wearing when you would go to the gym?
Craig Harper: [01:16:06] Great question. Do you guys remember a rapper called MC hammer?
Josh Janssen: [01:16:10] Yes.
Craig Harper: [01:16:12] M C M. He will perish Hamatan. He will. Okay. So they were the thing in the nineties, harp shoes. Now these looking back fucking terrible. I used to get around in an MC hammer pants, right? The cutoff windshield, or of course with the neck cutouts. Yeah. Um, there's the string singlets that Tommy used to get around when he was stripping.
Tommy Jackett: [01:16:34] Craig, what's that jacket that you have in your, I saw it once when I was at your joint. You brought out this jacket. That's old school. It's almost like a, it's almost like a varsity jacket. Like a remember they were bodybuilding
Josh Janssen: [01:16:46] era. You did too. You didn't, it wasn't an Everlast brand. Was that the leather one that you got for the photo shoot or like in that big factory somewhere?
Craig Harper: [01:16:55] So I did, uh, I did a, I did a project for Everlast where we developed a, um, a group exercise concept, which was going to be the next big thing. But literally two months after we finished and filmed and wrapped up, uh, Everlast went into or pack brands who owned Everlast I think went into receivership in Australia and.
Anyway, it was all messy, but the bottom line was I did this thing where I spent months developing this thing for them. And, um, it was a, it was a group exercise thing based on MMA. And we did this full day video shoot in this warehouse in South Melbourne with a cast of thousands. And I was kind of the guy that developed the program.
And at the end they did this award and they they'd made a 100 jackets. Globally 100 jackets out of leather and H and they had this little metal plate and they were numbered one to a hundred. And, um, I think, uh, I forget who it was, but maybe Mike, no, it wasn't Michael Jordan, but it was a very, very, very famous NBA.
Basketball of got. Jacket number one. Um, and that would lay that like bomber jackets. Um, and I wouldn't ever sold though was just a hundred. My idea. And I've got given jacket number one, zero, zero. So yeah, that was that's. Cool. Do you
Josh Janssen: [01:18:15] ever wear, do you have a go? I never went
Craig Harper: [01:18:17] on it. I never wear it
Josh Janssen: [01:18:21] well, can we at least, can you do an episode wearing it?
Like we all were around some of the flight.
Craig Harper: [01:18:26] It could be a leather. Well, I weigh about 83 kilos now, 84, 83 kilos. I reckon I need to be about a hundred to fill that out the top. Tommy's a bit bigger than me, those days, which I hate to admit. It's probably gonna fit him better than me.
Josh Janssen: [01:18:43] Great. I'd love to say that.
Awesome harps. We'll put a. The project details in the show notes. So people can go and listen to your podcast. How many episodes are you doing now? I feel like you're smashing out
Craig Harper: [01:18:57] there. Um, I'm just, I just actually put on, um, TIFF, you guys know TIFF cook, I think. Or Tommy, you know, Tim cook, so tips doing one or two episodes a week now.
She just did her first one today. So I'm trying to not kill Melissa. So I want to do five a week. Um, but it's, as you guys understand, it's, it's pretty, it's a, it's a steep, it's a steep load, but, um, yeah, so we're doing four a week minimum some weeks five, but so, yeah, we're, we're just, uh, this. This Saturday will be episode number 300.
So we're way behind you guys, but we're still cranking them out.
Tommy Jackett: [01:19:37] We'll catch up mate. Catch up. Uh, it's been great to have you on.
Josh Janssen: [01:19:41] Thanks hops.
Craig Harper: [01:19:42] Thanks Bobby Hart. Thanks for that. It's
Josh Janssen: [01:19:44] a daily toy show. We'll see tomorrow guys. Have a good one.
Craig Harper: [01:19:47] See you guys.