#454 – Andy Lee On The Business Of Doing What You Love/
- September 13, 2019
Andy Lee – Australian entertainment legend
Andy Lee is one half of the iconic comedy duo Hamish & Andy, the most successful drivetime radio show in Australian history. Andy has helped shaped the Australian media landscape through his inspiring positivity, work ethic and creativity.
Their successful format continues with their weekly podcast, Hamish & Andy.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show we discuss:
– Our Fat Fridays order
– Deciding to do it on your own
– The future of media advertising and brand alignment
– Sticking at what you love
– Perfection and setting the bar too high
– Guest interviews and celebrating others
You can buy Andy’s book, Definitely Do Not Open This Book, at all local book stores.
Andy on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andytomlee/
Hamish & Andy podcast: https://www.hamishandandy.com/listen/
Email us: email@example.com
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show, or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
It's a daily Talk Show Episode 454 fat Fridays
and we've got Andy lee in the building.
Nice to be here on Friday. Guys,
I have you here. And we we were thinking about what we're doing today. We've been trying to almost put off a fat Friday because we've been blowing out a little too much outside of fat Friday. Yeah,
I actually listened to a podcast about dieting on the way here. So
I'm full of all the things we shouldn't be doing.
But I'm gonna put that aside. Good. Good. What was the what was the wisdom that you got from that point? It sounds like
that I've been worried about my wife doesn't have the CGM. Yeah, no, it was it was a podcaster basically different experts come and talk about whatever they're an expert in. And it was during this one that I was listening to. And essentially, the Fed dots that were critiquing all of them, but they were saying you don't have to go wild. You know, it's it's a smaller come in is a better is a better plan than saying I'm going to half my body weight. No one ever gets this looks pretty dangerous. The
20 rule is great, but we're on 80% shit 20% I'll bring out the sheet right now. That Friday. So these these have storeys behind
them I love Oh,
I mean, it's it's this is an unpaid adore. So let's think is awesome frames and crunchy ice cream? Yeah, long history with both.
Well, yeah, this the Snickers I feel like I owe you a few because when I was working at the radio station, you somehow received a massive freezer full of these things. And I would have been smashing at least six of them. And
the funny thing is Josh and I didn't work together at the radio station, but we worked at the radio station. And then on the amount of I punish Yes,
was either he's he's the killer. We had the radio station Fraser sneakers. And then I had one freezer at home that was constantly getting stopped. And the amount of them i i to the point where I had to say you gotta you gotta get rid of this. How long did that take
before you got to that point? So we were it
was a back in the day where I had a lot of parties so like it would I'd find particularly at four in the morning happy eating ice cream sneakers around the house and everywhere. It was kind of the place everyone would end up on their way home half at one and then just kind of leaving. But yeah, we it took about a year. I had it for about a year and a bit before before I ordered out of the house.
We needed to get a biscuit jar out of this place because we were writing we finished
it in a way
is free phrase and we when
they went off the shelf for a while. Yeah, they disappeared. You know what happened? I don't know. I mean, these aren't you the spokesperson for this
actually, from that phrase stopped falling.
So I was devastated. And then we that's when they brought him back out that was the tribe because I used to eat them back when I was kind of between 16 and 20 was when I had them and then that went away and then when I came back I championed them so badly or or wildly, wildly wildly so that's when they sent me the fridge so you
didn't ask for it I just all of a sudden
you got a bit triggering now like could you not eat one of the
back I think it's a cycle back i'd love
jack post told us that because we're asking him what snacks you like as well. And he said the crunchy I don't know the connection with the crunchy Jesus.
I haven't had one before so i when i when i went off these
Yeah, and I went on to them.
diet to another diet. Yeah.
He said done the run. And I was like all right. I need something else. Yeah, the crunchy is played a big part of my life. Again, they weren't cinemas ice cream, and I stopped but yeah, for sure. I'll hold this for a bit. I'll talk soon guys, you can then get into that. from from from memory. The Mars ice cream was the first one to come out. And I'm going to call it 1995. Really? Yeah. Wow. 1994. And so and maybe 97 over there can actually Google it and correctly but in Australia. Sneakers ice creams shortly after cherry. Cherry right ice creams came after that died pretty quickly. Didn't normally like I didn't see it. The Bounty ice cream was also an important one. But again, it died. crunchbase came a lost interest that had the best staying power. They actually stayed around longer timing. I mean, well, Tommy, you'd say worst timing. I mean, last mover. Normally it's a first mover advantage. You think about Red Bull. Yeah. Kidding. You attack them on
the Red Bull friendship.
It was. I mean,
while we're on the topic of freebies, we've put it out on our podcast in the show notes. Our p o box. I'll show you what we got. button. This was something that came in a just like this. It was a glitter bomb. Someone say a word. A p o box a glitter bomb. I know your profile pic on Insta is a p o box address. Yeah. So you're up forgetting. Right? Yeah.
Yeah, I originally only got into Instagram. Because I saw these people getting free stuff. And I understand Instagram and all that. And it's a bit weird. So as a joke I put out Hey, I've started Instagram to get free stuff. I only want free stuff. Things I don't want to use. I'll give two followers and and then put pillbox up and what it became weed for me when I started getting really good good things that I was actually enjoying. You got TVs do? Yeah, I got a 75 inch Samsung TV that would have been like three or four grand. And then I asked for a new bed because clubs.
Yeah, some golf clubs,
everything flying in. And that's when I started the creative across in my head like, actually, I'm loving this. I'm high on this Instagram, you know, supposedly influencer thing. But I'm also hating myself because this is the idea I was meant to parody these people. And I am one of them. So I haven't been back the P o box for a while. But they ring me constantly saying you cannot use this as a storage facility. We have got so many parcels there. And it's all they're all sitting there at some point. So at some point, I'll go through them on and I've been just giving them why the followers don't really care anymore, but Oh, they end up at the Rotarians hospital.
Have you feel guilty as to when you get something that you feel like you need to actually put out a post?
No. I thought I thought of that for a while. I was like oh no, these patients go to the effort. And but they're not like I mean, also at the time I had maybe 200 followers, so it didn't really matter. It was funny. Yeah. And and now with my father's I'm like to my to my father's really, really want to see this. Yeah. Or is this really how easy it is for someone to sell a product now just send it to me and I'm going to market it for them. So I do choose a little bit wisely.
Look, we don't get a lot so we're happy to just exchange your PO box will do
a profile photo. And then we'll sort it will will be generous 97 will look after the admin staff you can have a list of things golf related stuff you can give to you but that's probably all I want to know stuff the rest of it you guys know not to
love you go.
Actually, I had a handicap when I was like when I was a kid I got I used to play six times a week. That's how like crazy.
But you were in school, or
Yeah, so I was like I would do a planet not horrendous because I said I had a handicap. I never said what it was what it was 32 because that was the highest.
what's a good scratches? scratch you scratch your right five or six? Nine. I
feel like I feel like you've got a good balance of hobbies. We've been talking quite a bit this week just about getting older and kind of losing your hobby here. Right? And whether it be what was your what's your hobby that you've lost? Ah, no, I look at skateboarding and stuff like that. I've got an electric skateboard and i and i was on it this morning with my son and he's in between my legs is two and a half and he's just a little mad man loves it. And so I'm currently taking him to the skate park and things like that where I spend majority of my my I do my schooling there. But it's I almost living vicariously through him. That's a great crunch with the end of the pilot
right? Good. This is the problem with that Fridays This is on the easier and debating. Sometimes we have burgers. Las Vegas. Absolutely not man especially we had handheld mics.
So and Josh is talking a lot of bands are want to take up something but I feel like hobbies require this. This sort of almost this bit where you don't need to try too hard. It just comes really naturally or you gravitate towards it. So then you just do it. You don't feel like you're doing much. You've got golf cricket.
Yeah, I mean, Hamish is a great example of
the search for a hobby was deep for him. And now he's fine. Cycling is really good. And he's loved it and he is addicted to it. But like, there are times where, you know, he can go on. I've got I bought scuba gear I'm going to be given that kind of he's that kind of impulse in the search for a hobby.
So yeah, I think it's true. It's like let the hobby come to you. Go and try and try some stuff, but certainly didn't have to announce to the world that you're going to do this. What about at the age of 29? What sport Should I get into not as a playa, but as a spectator you're into the cricket stuff. I'm into a Yeah, nearly all sports really.
So what is a good because I was thinking you like AFL? Yeah. So we went to a game the other day loved it was
the first game. I've been
Yeah, I've been to have
like maybe half a dozen in my life. But the Josh going to strike me as the guy that's going to go this is what I'm into. And I'm going to go I haven't heard of that.
Well, so this is
Yeah. Well, I love hockey. I really yeah. So I still play hockey. Okay. Ice hockey. No field hockey. Yeah.
And this is timely manner because in two weeks time, they're starting a new national hockey tournament.
How this is good. This sounds very plan.
Yeah, well, it wasn't a new there's a new hockey tournament hockey Australia are bringing out a top a tournament a big bash like league called hockey one starts the day after the AFL Grand Final. And it's Yeah, you could see
where we're going what you could
go to the state netball and hockey centre.
That's where they do the basketball too, isn't it? Not may be used to a man they used to think it was sad that the the National Basketball League was at like a hockey and netball centre. Yeah, yeah.
But now they now the basketball is that you know high chance Yeah.
What about TV? What about like a TV spectator sport
more hockey one they hoping you can get on camera. But I mean, I love it. I love
cricket. But I get into it always at the final. So I'm into it now. Yes. You have a team? Well, when I was really young, it was the bombers. And then a mate could get medallion club access. And he went for the science. So it was a when I was in high school. I went for science
I understand that. So I feel the concern I have is that I've got no room to move. I've used two teams up yet. It seems a little bit disingenuous. What
about coming to grips with the it's just not you think?
Because you've got to me I want to watch like my singing baseball, Major League Baseball. All right. Okay. Okay. So that's very nice. That's, I mean, that's during the day normally, so
can like the idea of you having a day or Yeah, but
we do our own thing. So I love the idea of having the TV on. It's a high definition like super Chris, if you've ever seen it
great. I have I love them. I mean, I've got I beg for the Cardinals. So St. Louis. They've had a good history. But um, yeah, I think
you're already beating me on that. I know about a cat. I mean, I got
I went to a Yankee study, like went to Yankee Stadium and actually got a complex like war New York Yankees hat here in New York. And they just they target you on the street? And they said, Oh, yeah, Yankee. Yeah, yeah. If you were the Mets. People don't I mean, they're more new Manhattan. For instance, more about more about the Yankees
since finishing up five days a week, Hamish and Andy. You would think more more time than a schedule, but more time means you gravitate towards doing more things like hobbies. Is that what you've done?
I certainly play a lot more golf. Am I doing more hobbies? I'm about to
go for my pilot's licence to be sick for I
Yes. Does that the radio station? He was really yeah.
That makes me a little nervous because
because cakes, God love him we love cakes. But he I think was the RMB Friday's top 100 countdown Yeah, and it got to like just before our show one day and it got a quarter to four and he realised he had 10 songs and people are on the Facebook going and Instagram going you're not gonna make it man you're not gonna make it and it gets got too much for me Lyft the studio stakes in an emergency in the HTC this went on not account fingering yep not a not happy cuz he was cutting few songs short
with Kentucky when you need it.
Exactly. That's what should happen so kegs left the studio just got too much room he went out and then someone else had to come in copilot if you will so my worry again if case can fly planes I'm pressure situations I'm just I don't want him to leave the car.
So what gets you to go I want to do my I want to do the course I want to get these hours
I like the idea of being a go anyway. I just I do like that concept. Oh such a cool idea. And helicopters was what I originally thought about but the range that you can get on helicopter it's it's not that far and they're a lot more dangerous. And so I thought yeah, well maybe I'll try and get a light plane going because then you can you know who wants to have lunch on King island? Let's go down and have a steak and some cheese in the middle of best right and that's that's kind of what enticed me to go for
lunch craft isn't ridiculously expensive. I had a client when I was at PT who had his dad had one he had his licence and him and his dad would just go Yeah, doing that kind of stuff.
You can you can buy a small plane for you know, less than a luxury car prices. Like which saves it's a real pipeline.
No, he didn't say
Damn. I mean is that I mean you could live your life in fear or you could do things like that again Yeah, well
I mean so that's I do like trying things and that was one thing I loved and I'm sure him was the same about doing the radio show is things would present themselves and you'd go are it will be funny if I really try and now might not succeed but this would be more fun for instance I got my boss Lawson so he could drive out our our band our radio band around the around the country and that was great going getting my heavy rigid vehicle licence and learning about articulate and trucks and stuff like that. And then you know 10 dancing to ghosts you know it was solely tap dancing so I knew it'd be funnier if it if it was half good at it so yes certainly the radio show allowed you to try little things which I which I loved the the plane thing you did the random Australia to work with it on applying Did you were you asking the pilot a lot of questions that will mainly sitting out there because they were in private jets Yeah. Which is very different to two propellers going and we say hey man, our main lead is drinking in the back. Are you
are you allowed to like if it's a private plane I'm guessing you can have the cockpit open Yeah,
you don't go have a little look and and they can't stand no pilots meant to allow you to have fly
but you were sitting on his lap
but in the past I'm not saying on that trip but in the past some pilots have loosened that rule which has been fun
What about I went to Bali when I was grade six oh no bragging no windows? Yeah, got my dog. We got an
1999 but I remember Garuda
part the door open kids coming out sitting there
Yes. You remember that? Yeah. Before
or kind of before September 11 the the the the cockpit was as much of a museum or interactive experience for press Yes. What's really going on all the time? Yeah. Yeah. And then you know that's obviously it was a bad day for for everyone in Manhattan and all was lost but also a bad day for politics. Yeah, the the blimp that you went in? Yeah. We were talking about blimps the other day. They're meant to be quite dangerous. The blimps the blimp felt Yeah, didn't feel that safe because it's so small like it looks fucking huge is the actual little the cockpit small battery speakers this table maybe. So you a 50 metre by
I would say kind of two metres by three metres. formulas. So you It feels like you're really just in a little box hanging off the bottom of a balloon, which
probably is a max box off a bottle balloon as far as like kind of the dimensions of it. So that doesn't feel safe. And I mean, obviously you got your your motor but the winds if the wind gets up, it's hard to go against it. Working. Is it paddles. I How did they handle they stay the thing? We're all we're all cycling.
Danger thing. That sounds right.
James Bond, one of the old school that's uh, you're referencing Chinese. Yeah, but I remember hearing the engine there was like it's an engine sex along. This is
just a fan with Radha essentially. Yeah, yeah. So kinda like a hovercraft, the way that this big fan of the Bethel era,
we talking about ABC always be content writing. And I felt like it's actually an acronym. I've always felt that having something like making a video has sort of given me a bit of courage. It's like yeah, I'll do it if it's filmed. I mean, you've got a great few things that you've done. Yeah, this the tall ship as well. Yeah, the jet the
time and I've got a new travel show coming out. And we always talk about the courage that I someone filming at doing the you made some unique filming doing so they're going come on. Yeah, off you go. And so you just absolutely under those circumstances course we want to present a much braver version of myself or a much more exciting because that's, that's, that's that bed of television. And also that is a little bit of a motivator.
Well, you've got the moment where you decide to do it. It's almost like it takes away that sort of defence mechanism of the barrier. Because it's like you step into it, you jump off something bungee jump, it's like, you need to have removed the constant thought of the action of just tipping over a 60 metre drop.
And I think for for me personally, it's, it's a reason it's a raising to do it. So if we're filming it for TV, like this will be fun is going to be funny normally, but like this is funny is fun. Is this would be great. Let's do it. Where if I was there by myself, do we gonna really risk our lives this only that little extra reason to do it shouldn't be it should be no reason why you should be like a cookie cutter Santelli, make sure you reach your life but that's like the bachelor
like he's always looking like a top dog. Yeah, like every single bachelor. And it's I guess like them it's being filmed all the time. They're always their best self
Yes. Yeah, just stick
your chest out Josh all over steak.
in I remember Jules lon telling me early days like he he wants bungee jumped off a helicopter. So he's still stuck in the helicopter. Wow. But then they started ski
and that'd be more scary for the helicopter drama.
Well, I mean, Joel's wise a bit
that kind of helicopters are always kind of there. They're all dead. They can be moved around a bit that that
that project rtmp went up and then it bungee that back.
But just think about the white like you're losing the white and then gaining the one year Will Smith did it for his 50th birthday. That's right of a helicopter. Yeah,
yeah. Over the Grand Canyon. Yeah. Jules then said they stopped doing like anyway, their insurance policies they pulled back like you guys remember early days did some crazy stuff. Was there a point where I was like,
No, you boys need to settle there. There's a couple where they got I remember the radio station particularly got angry with us in a croc infested waters in northern territory where I'd lost a bit and had to swim across this. This this creek where croc salt Saudi crocs are in which I was nervous about but
yeah, they say
I suppose that in retrospect, I mean, I wouldn't do that now. Because but young and you know, you excited and it wasn't about the content. It was this big. This was same fun. You take more risks when you're younger. And yeah, I don't know. I'm sure it's chemical. I'm sure there's something in our brains as we get older we got we're not going to do that self preservation. Yes. And
there's something in the brain of the risk. It's like you develop an area that sort of identifies risk this one guy told me once when I was being a little shit, but he's putting his hand into the ant trap. Yeah, like you know what's gonna happen right or do
you know really we kind of
we kind of both thought it would be a not as bad I mean, we got told was the worst pain in the world. But
what does that mean? What does that mean? like spicy stuff, like anytime I see anyone a chilli. Yeah, it's like, I'm sure I could do that.
Yeah, exactly. I wouldn't know it'd be horrendous it's it's a kind of strange thing. So with that one particular there's this great bit of audio the cameras on the ground so there's no vision of it. But you can hear Hamish and I Channing. And we didn't know who was going to have to put their hands in the gloves bullet and gloves. At that point we're in the middle of the Amazon people didn't know and that will basically they sow ants into these gloves. And it's a coming of age ceremony and ritual where young men have to put their hands on these gloves for a couple minutes and they get stung and it's called a ball event because it feels like you've been shot that's the sting time and I sitting there and it's a lot we know we put like one of the more dangerous things when I shoot in the last day just because if we get hurt we could leave without the rest of the show. And so this is great audio home and I going it is gonna be great would it fix this out or do then have back it will be about six and then I know it will go let's go around with the gods and 10 and I'm IK and then hang us look whoever gets it just you know put it on obviously flick it off when you when you saw bounce around a bit but you know and but but you know we don't have to go to holiday of course course. Turns out you put these hands in the air and send out a pheromone to all the other end they go We're under attack. So he gets about 200 stings in two seconds. So he flicked it looks like on telly that he flicks it off immediately. But he's already made stung like a selling machine these ads just sending sending down their their little spots on repeat. And he ends up on a morphine drip in the hospital for about eight hours. It's very different to me having to be with the gods guy.
so to speak. Yeah, you were just working on perfect holiday the new TV show is
is there is it a lot softer now?
Like it's was a different one? Yeah certainly
different it's what Michael and you always kind of our sweet we're both really excited to travel again but we're also monitor make sure that there's an evolution to the show. Just going back and doing the same old trick is never really excited us we inaccurate voice bounced around by the radio show for that amount of time and then wanted to try something different. But yeah, this one what I loved about it was the surprise like we surprise each other in every day with the activity so I'll choose what something for him and he choose something for me which is quite different to gap year. He was getting right into it like before he left the bought the bike right the that stuff the Vegas thing like he had lyst like the amount of work that you guys were putting in Yeah, you just like this, there's some really fun things as we're going I this will be funnier, the more work I put in, or we just became obsessed with the storey like you like, there's an example is there's a guy called Finn, who is an older guy. But when he was at he sold all these possessions and bought treasure with it and has buried the treasure in the Rocky Mountains. And that the Rocky Mountains is huge. It goes over but basically half America. And he's left a poem describing where this little clues as to where this, this this, this treasure was. And I just became obsessed with finding the treasure. And when you know you're on forums and stuff like that, and you know, and someone reads and goes, I need someone to help me get to this place because I can't afford it. But I think I know exactly what treasure is to suddenly talking to these people. And yeah, like that's the kind of, it's just going to be funnier if and more fun. The deeper you get in and the better chance you have a fun intro spoiler alert. Andy has so much gold on right now. The difference between gap year and this type of show like is this an a format that you think that you would continue doing or I'd love to anytime same whether it's every year, you know, we've got to have a team Tim reshoots with us now General Manager, he's got a family and he's got three kids and you have to see, you know, you got to balance all these things out with just being away and etc. But yeah, it's, it's certainly felt that way. And I'd say that like, because we knew we were preparing new ideas for each other. Probably a little deeper creatively, the ideas, there's probably little less like, what I loved about Kappa is we actually didn't prepare anything. Like we would go Let's go and see this guy who says he can kill someone by shouting at them and Japan like cool. That's all we need to know like so you didn't need to really have and and wildness would happen. With this. It's it's just a slightly nuanced change where you go, I actually I'm going to pick this because I know hey, will love it or hate it, or will both this love this adventure. And you can prepare a couple of things, and then see where it goes. So it's just a slightly different type of content
filming a TV show across in I say six or eight weeks. It's a bit of a sprint, you're going to get what you can What do you like better? Something where you're sprinting the pressures on or like when you're doing five days? It's the evolution you're coming back? You're showing up tomorrow? Yeah, it's a you know, longer than the full. What is it? The the before survey? So yeah, a few breaks a year. Yeah, but really, you've got this whole year to be playing with?
I mean, I feel like it's an interesting thing. Interesting question because I just love the variety like the things that you can get serviced by daily radio which is connection with people calling in all the time I just love talking to a read like everyday people and people sharing their storeys, they always made it actually so much better and so much funnier. So you kind of miss that. And it didn't it never felt like a grind at all, but we loved it but you could yearn for a different type of content or a different type of thing. And that's what TV does because TV is got you shoot for such a short amount of time and then the post production and editing and all that stuff it takes so long, like the true storey for instance. It was like 14 months to make the series so you kind of start the second one before you even finish the first one because you're gonna find all the storeys and then hey mission I would listen to them and then we'd go run home run and I'll go and write them all then then the next crew up for to do all the reenactments is a drama each pre production for that shoot them then posting that with editing so it took so long and certainly there's times on like t radios easy
I can have an I can have an idea in the ad break and we can be doing it straight after versus all the propane it seems like such a different beast and you with true storey specifically that was something that you you then took the idea and went on to try and sell it what is the process of selling a format what how does
it even as a more and what are you selling
really simply this the format and the I mean this this is what you're doing now is a format like it's it's two guys that do a daily show every day and this is the setup and that's the camera angle so like you would lease that stuff it's kind of pretty boring content for you least what's important to us as and defining for the format and then you just go Would anyone like to make their version and and there's a huge MIPCOM which is in Canada France and let's tell it beta TV sales conference where every everyone in the world goes buyers and sellers and go hey, this is the Mask Singer This is the block this is this is you know and this is the voice and all those shows doo doo doo the circles in those kind of sales coming what's
the vibe of play everywhere?
Now? I have no back I can Yeah, I know the vibe we've had people that have gone on a path and look it's it's it's hard because it's actually it's people it's getting more and more cutthroat the less people are going to it now SXSW the big Music Festival they've actually signed on for TV now as well because people go there and then they also you look at look at buying TV but content is so rich and it's not as seasonal as it used to be everyone used to stop in summer and stuff but with Netflix and Disney plus it will come out and Hulu overseas and Stan all these things I mean that content constantly being acquired, which is a good thing for content creators but it's it means that those big sales conferences not not as strong because don't play as big role Yeah,
I feel like a lot of creatives Don't think about their IP as a creative because it doesn't feel tangible right before you've made a video you've just got an idea I know from I've never spoken to you about a bit hearing about I think a lot of people use Hamish and Andy and the the business side of things as an example of we can own our own stuff. Hamish and Andy is the brand you know, can you talk us through the early early days of deciding that we were going to be our own entity
most of the decisions didn't ever come from like a business decision like we could make money doing this it was it was pretty much I didn't love the way behind in love the way something was being packaged or being betrayed. And so and and when you big radio stations often they've got a they've got a storey kind of imagery that they slap across every single show in there and we wanted our show to build feel different and we went when we first started at Fox FM they were really at an all time low the ratings were really poor and now trying to searching for anything to get out of the travel and so we specifically didn't want their branding like we talked to them about before we signed on to go we wanted this this type of branding and so it was mainly not not because we wanted to make our own brand was more dislike we wanted to distance itself from them a little bit and we love man Malloy like I'm not sure if you guys probably are too young but for Tony amount Nick Malloy, the biggest radio show in their time, and they kind of again have gone out and and just didn't sound like Fox FM. And we're like, well, this if if we can just sound like ourselves sound like we're making ourselves you know, comfortable and did the same with the TV as well. Channel Nine was fantastic when they came across before gap year. They are also going Polian and the same kind of speech from this fella called David angel who was running nine, who caught up with Irish night, just brilliant, brilliant TV mind. And he was like, we know that we're struggling, we don't want to make you Channel Nine at all, that that'd be the worst thing we could do. We want to make it look like you guys have just somehow stolen the receiver. You broadcasting your show. Yeah. And so that was cool, because then we could put out our version of ourselves the things we want to make. And it comes from trust from above. And then you realise, oh, we're creating a brand. So, you know, obviously we're thinking about a bit more, but we fell into it a little bit,
would you say that? You would advise as if that if a young person, you know who study any creative work? Is it the way you encourage people to go? Or, I don't
know, because so like, you know, probably about 10 years ago, we ended up acquiring all our rights back and stuff and running it ourselves. But there's times where I go, Well, that's a lot of admin work. That's a lot of settling. And there was times where it stunted our growth a little bit, because we're getting caught up in, in things that you shouldn't really be worried about. Leah, has the website, got a sponsor, Josh website costs a lot like you know, even before like, where YouTube became a better place for people to actually go and find but we're creating a website and even running that and having enough power for it's like as in the video hosting the players via hosting all those things. $10,000. So I was sitting on a ship with we've taken all this back and now which cost the other leg? So that became a conundrum. Yeah. And so I would say, people often we were at an A, on the TV side of thing we loved working dog, who people don't know who they are, they do have you been paying attention. They wrote the castle and film The castle live like that is God, thank god here. And we are always there production can be doing their own thing. And so I had in my head, we have to be this as well. And so the other guys without really knowing what it entailed. And I think people have in their heads now which got to own everything, and so on, but not really knowing the work that comes with that responsibility. So it depends on where you are, I would say with your career. And you're also early on in your careers. very unlikely to be able to own it all. Because you've got no leverage. You've just, you know, we could have gone into the day one and gone and we're doing this and like, okay, peace often. Yeah, we'll go with Tommy and Josh for the drive. Hopefully, yeah. Because it will
So I think people said we were talking the other day at someone who they talk a lot about saying no, the things you know, it's a the hell yes or no. Which is very convenient when you're an executive that's established. Or you're in a position, like you and Hamish where you've put in all of the work to the point where you have an abundance of opportunity. Yes, when you're getting started, you sort of can't say no that much. You have to say yes, as much as you can. Right? It's a difficult one because we did say a lot of no's when we were starting as well. Yeah. But we, we I don't know what it came from. But it It also came from the fact that being best friends, you get to have this journey together. And you can look at each other and go,
man, I don't really love this. Either I cry, okay, let's listen.
Let's just do something else, you know, you have that confidence, you hope that another opportunity will come past. But you know, of all the shows that that hey, miss your eye, or and or I have been asked to do over the years, there's probably like
one that we said no to that went and to be in success? And I would say this, I can think of probably 30 that we'd asked to do and not Yeah. And then you watch you watch them when they go to air and you're like, either I am glad I didn't do that. Or maybe I would have done it differently. But you don't know the situation back behind the scenes. So I think when you don't have an audience, if there's elements of something that you would love doing and you're being true to yourself in in performance, it doesn't have to be the whole thing. But just a little bit. I think yeses are really good. But if it's something that it just doesn't seem to you the worst we had a we have a show on CHANNEL SEVEN called Hamish nearly 2004 got cut after six weeks. Lucky it did because everyone a press were like on our side saying are you cut these young guys too? too early. It's really unfair. But the worst thing would have could have happened if we this went on for 10 episodes. And then everyone I know that wasn't very good, but it wasn't. And you wouldn't have had this backlash to give us a glow. Yeah. And after that was when we were like, this is someone else's show. They were writing jokes telling us to do them. We had some input, but not really have over the whole look and feel.
So it was that good or bad for you career, it was
great that we got x, that it was great for a learning curve. And it was the time we said okay, from now on, we're only going to do things that under our banner, so incorporated much company off the back of that. So I'm really grateful for it. But the worst, it's the worst feeling ever failing, when it's not even your content. If you're the face Yeah, of a failure. It's not even your idea. That is actually more I reckon more soul destroying, then if you never did it is that is that from a different time in regards to
say 1015 years ago, it was you had to you're a presenter, and then you would audition and you'll get picked and sis picking culture. Whereas now say even website hosting all those things, the barriers to entry are so low that you can do the podcast, you can make all that stuff. When you're speaking to young people. I'm guessing there's a bunch of people who see what you've done and want to emulate. So they started on channel 31. Yep. And then they sort of work to try and you know, similar to what you did with working dog or things like that. reverse engineer, what are you saying to them?
I think the best thing is just try stuff like just just be by doing not talking about just by doing and whatever it is like and work out what you want to stand for. So like some people talking and get annoyed or that person got that opportunity I should have got that all that kind of thing. I don't really like that. It's like think they're trying things and through trying things you find out what you're good at or what things to you now whether that everyone loves that, that you at least you going I'm going to find my nation course everyone starts copying other people and borrowing you know, their favourite things. And Heyman I would be copying like our favourite British sketch shows not like the actual skits, but just vibe from it all that then you develop what makes you you just by trying things and if you sit back and you don't try and don't put something out and you can audition for things, we don't get it. There's other ways to get stuff out. So yeah, I think and try as much as possible when no one's listening or watching.
Is it removing the the eyes on outcome?
Yeah, I think absolutely. It's, it's you learn far more from your failures and you from your successes. So we will we've learned we will review quite heavily. And not under like a baby ourselves up kind of way. But just go. I'll keep that in mind when we have a bad break on radio and you go if it's catchy that didn't work. Wow. Okay, let's talk about tomorrow. You want to learn the vibe kept going? It wasn't like we were down about it. It was just like, Oh, well, we reached we didn't we didn't we didn't we weren't successful how that work. And I really great examples. Like when we first started on Fox FM. We were doing some phone topics that were probably a little bit hard to follow. And our boss what's going you've got to dumb it down. It's what I kept saying you got to dumb it down. It's too It's too smart. It's too it. You know, our listeners are this they're not intelligent you. And instead of going from like, dialling it back to like 10% of the intellect will hoping to go for the level of like, let's just pull it back to like it, you know, and the next day we did that, and it failed again, like, all right, well, let's just pull it back to like 60 to make it a little bit more edible. And people started getting on to the point where we got a new type of listener because suddenly we're pulling people in from am people stopped listening to Darren hinge because we were pitching things, not the traditional FM level that everyone expects there to be. And so it was nice to fails nasty. Okay, we know why we've analysed why, but let's not let's go to the opposite. Let's say we think there's something here let's keep dialling back and tinkering. And then by the end of the show, and with our podcast listeners now they just so smart this house about and their level of intellect and their level they put on jokes is just awesome.
So the rules of radio, like we common bit of feedback we get from people is around like, assume that people don't know what you're talking about reset, give context. And Tommy and I always talk about the fact that what we want to be doing is creating a conversation. Yeah. And we want to it's a feel like mate ship, because it is but also have a bit of a level of foam. Oh, so yeah. When we do the podcast, we don't have to spend back in five minutes resetting who Andy layers or anything like that. People will go and like if they're international and don't know who you are, they'll Google Yep. How many of those rules? Have you broken? Or what are some of those classic things that you actually just don't believe in?
Yeah, well, we questioned every single one of them when we started and then realise we needed to add some more back in it to me with resetting. If the going off the conversation analogy, if a new person rolls in, and we're in the middle of conversation at the pub, and stands there, I'll always go to our sorry, we're talking about the 40 at the moment and last week's game, and then keep going yeah, so I don't think it's wrong to to reset. And because if anyone joins the conversation, naturally, human behaviour is to either choose to let them in, or go well, you weren't here when we started. So suck eggs.
Because I think there's a difference between that and this is Andy Lee. He's got a book. He's got this he's got and I guess that's the The difference is it's like this The stilted newness of doing it in a way that totally agree with it, which I think is which is difficult. I think that sweet picked a level.
Yeah, again, again, that that degrees thing. It's not like this is wrong, we shouldn't do this. There's a reason why some of these tropes exist. Yeah,
same with the format as well. The thing so the the idea of the format of, you know, you've only got short talk breaks, and so people are coming in coming out. Yep. What we're talking about is no one's coming in and out of the show. They're they're listening to the entirety of the thing, or they're stopping halfway through. And so then it's that much bigger thing of longer arc. Yes. And how you know, is has that been something that you've considered how you communicate those longer form art? Yeah, yeah.
What we, it's a really, it's a, it's a tough one as well, because there are some ideas for how that went so deep into like, and it was that you like, there's no way we can explain all there's no way to reset it all.
So And isn't that some of the favourite stuff?
Yeah, it's our favourite stuff so like, with it can it can stem from what's a good example. So with Hamish had a dream that he was playing a song like a he had a dream about a song that he wrote new and he wanted to sing the song right? Write the song with me to bring back he stream at turned it was an Adam Levine song. He's like, yes, Adam Levine was in my dream. And he said the dream should maybe it's a premonition. And the dream was Adam Levine from Maroon five, coming to a disused water park. And on our final show of the year, and singing a song that we wrote together. I was like, All right, cool. And then we heard that they were just opening the new water park in Sydney. Well, that is this us and so all these parts of the dream actually started coming true. And so we kept talking about it for like five, six months culminating in the show finally being from the war, the tissues, waterpark and 100 people and people flew in from New Zealand to try and be there knowing that if we just built it Adam living would come but it became so hard to receive. Well, we just you what we did, what you ended up doing is just giving, giving up on what you don't have to reset from the start. You can just reset from what you're up to. Yeah, that was that was out.
And she's the shot which is a you re setting a one show from what you've already done. Or like that's not big race. That's that's not this is the start of word it will happen. Now here.
It's what we do. And sometimes we would say this has become too complicated, like to reset.
Yeah, so bogged down and living
this way, so why don't we like another another good, except maybe a simpler example than the enemy works out very complicated, but I always put money on me to win clear, actually back in the day. And I won that. And we bought with the money we bought a great hand. And then with that, without a great hand could predict winners. Like we used to put nuggets on flights. And like with idle names above flight from Australia Nautilus stuff, and he don't eat the nugget. I know he got it every time. He was just crazy. And so then we started taking this Greyhound on a national tour to race and the and he started winning races he had like 5000 people or something at a Wi
Fi free. Yeah, this is
Fred best friend of SZ. Today he's out on a farm got adopted out,
got adopted by the head of the Greyhound Racing and he he retired, went to a farm and yeah, he's still running around, which is cool. But we decided to drop the whole money to how we acquired the dog everything and just when we now integrate hand and we're travelling around, like you could leave off things once you got to the next step that weren't important. And so that's how we kind of would cut down our resets, if that makes sense. So the storey is developed enough that it's it's now its own storey. Yeah. Outside of the setup. Yeah. I love that.
You were asking about mister 97. Nine.
So we've dropped that part. We don't tell anyway,
though. So yeah, the reason is called missing 97. And I told him if there's any wasn't impressed. He got a 97 enter score. Oh, yeah. Which I think is fucking Tommy myself. It's very good. Which is why we thought it's a good name.
We're getting more mail. Maybe it might be male or my wife.
Sounds great. Yeah, I got 98 something. Yeah, but he tells me all the time, but I choose not to
say but yeah, I 97.
bloody good. guy.
I got 96 say that's fine. That's, that's top quality stuff. I think that again, it's kind of it's it kind of under the impression that everyone cares about that.
Which I certainly didn't from. Yeah, they're very moment I got it.
Which is kind of strange. But do you think of friends we're not like was with people that were annoyed? Who really did care about that stuff was?
Yeah, I think people the main reason I didn't care is I didn't know what I wanted to do. So a number this number represents nothing to me now because I don't know how to use it.
It's you know, it's like it's like a lightsaber when you don't actually have the Jedi powers yet. You know, you can hurt yourself with this.
He's it's stuck.
Yeah, so that's that I thought I find that an interesting theme. And people like my school asked me back to talk at the like believers. And I was like, well, you realise I didn't go on and do anything that you guys wanted me to do. They didn't really even have drama my school back in the day now. But they were kind of everyone wanted to be had to be doctors, accountants, lawyers. That was that was quite a quite a strict school. I think I can't put my hand on that and go back and talk about how great this is going to be for you how this nobody is because this didn't mean anything to me. And they're like, that's fine. Come back. And anyway, so my speech wasn't totally in it. It wasn't totally endearing to all the parents that have come along with their kids to hear about how to use it. But the one thing I did say, and that was what it did give me the number was more opportunity with for more like minded people. So I met Hamish, which I'm so grateful for, and I met a lot of people and team, you guys know, who's our producer and general manager of our company, because we all went to the same university, and you needed a score to get into that. So whether it's not to say that you go to a different university, you won't meet those people. But we probably met people at a similar level to us. Yeah.
What do you think about when you think of the future and media technology? How you going to connect with your audience?
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's really interesting, where it's all going out. And I'm not. Like, I don't we don't really delve so deeply into how to connect with audience members. Because we only ever did the show for each other like a mission I, which is just fortunate to not have to worry so much about it. But yea, it will change. There's so many platforms coming out. It's shrinking market for television, there's so many areas to play in. And I mean, they're about to launch in America, a new online platform called Quimby. I'm not sure if you've heard of that. So it's Katzenberg, who, who is it? I think, DreamWorks or Disney or any, I started one of those big ones. And they put, I think, nearly half a billion dollars into this new s VOD platform. So like a Netflix etc. But it's called quickly for quick bites. And there's no show over 10 minutes.
Interesting. So are they snippets of shows or they brand new,
brand new, original console? original content so bad? And I mean, this would be a great example of a show that could be on TV. Yeah, because it's a means an hour long. But you guys know that six times you? Yeah. So good, really good. So you could if if that's the kind of thing what what they're trying to do is they noticed that are so many people are there on Instagram watching storeys all the time, of people that don't really care about and they're bored. And they're going well, why? I mean, the other thing about could be is you could only get on the phones. So what they're saying is they're wanting to get an alternative to just, I'm just going to go into Instagram and watch storeys, I'm going to go into this and watch a show. I like news I like and then we know it's all in quick bid. So someone's waiting for the bus, they know they can get this five minutes showing. Or if they're going to bed, they don't have to decide whether they're going to do half an hour an hour, it's like I'll do this but Spielberg's doing a film that's cut up into 10 minute means, but it's written, designed the 10 minute bit, so there'll be a cliffhanger at the end of every 10 minutes or there's a change. So they're trying to get we're all getting our attention spans are shrinking. And and people think they've got lyst time on their hands.
Do you think that that because all of those things you're talking about the popular belief in this day and age do you believe all of that stuff? Or do you think that some of these things are actually over hyped
up? I look, I think a lot of these things are overhyped, for sure. But I certainly think our viewing patterns have changed dramatically. It's very difficult to sit down and watch a show without being on your phone these days. People have people second screens are so important to people. Even in during conversations, people pull out their phones and googling things or watch this movie saying this and and, and so that is it can't be ignored, I suppose. I'd love to ignore it. I'd love to I've been a late adopter for local most social media things. And
why is that?
I don't do it very well, naturally. Like it doesn't I don't on the
What is it? What is social media? What is that because you are great at content, you're great at storytelling, you got it.
I never won or taking photos is one of my first things. I'm just having issues to be our photo guy. He used to take all that, like he's take, I just never really been a person to snap photos. And that is like, that kind of cancels out Instagram.
And so writing because Instagram, like the big thing at the moment is having great solid captions and yeah, right.
That's why I love Twitter. And I still like Twitter more. Because it's all about the writing. It's about jokes. I like one line as opposed more than where someone sitting in what I'm what Island in what part of the world but, um, but I know you can do both. And, you know, and my girlfriend's great at that stuff. And she's been teaching me there's too many times where she's leaning over. No, no, no, don't press that. And do that. Don't use that. So, but that's, you know, it's the other thing about the writing centre that I like, and I love daily radio is I love sharing my life on the radio. So it's not like I'm against people sharing their lives or anything. It's like, that's fine. It's definitely come naturally to me that to do something and and then want to post it. And and then there's times I do get slightly sad when I'm like, there's something awesome happening and then see everyone pull out their phones, instead of just like, enjoying
nowadays, sharing your life isn't unique. But sharing your life to a huge audience like you have for a lot of your life is a different and unique thing. Yeah. What What have you felt? And I think about this for us of how much we share. And my wife said to me yesterday, she's a bit dark. If something bad happened, would you be talking about like, if you're going through something bear with me, like deaths or anything?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So what's the question?
How have you dealt with it? How have you dealt with 10 years? You know, I'll show you live as long as I can remember, listen to radio, I was listening to you. Yeah. I mean, we get you get to choose what parts of your life share, which I love. And it also means you're holding back things, and actually having to live a life as well. Yeah,
thankfully, thankfully, like, the two were just pretty much it. Like, I you got to know me for a while now. It's like, I wasn't kind of the same person is I was on a obviously we're looking for funny, but I'm happy to share things in real life that are that are uncomfortable for a lot of people, but I find that funny, etc. So thankfully, I'm not playing a character in on air. And we went home and I've talked about that's like, GM glad we just, like doing the things we like within ourselves. because it'd be very hard to, to not, you know, people, again, when we had early success, people come to me and go, our art, you know, it's great that you're not like driving around a flashy car or doing this, you know, you know, you try and keep it under wraps to be the every man or whatever. And you're like, no, not really, this team don't really want that by applying. So it's like so if motors I didn't really want, actually want those things, but I've got friends that do want those things and do love showing off my name. And I'm fine with that as well. That it's it's it's not like, I was sitting there going shit, I've won a Ferrari, but I better just be relatable. It's just we've just been kind of lucky to that. My natural wants and needs kind of seed into performing,
going from something that's indie, you know, something that's new, and sort of got a little niche audience to then making the step to it being this mass thing, which I mentioned, NV has become. What have you found with? how people are trading you? Yeah, in terms of what you're creating?
Yeah, it's, I think, again, we just make it for ourselves. So I never felt that there were people that probably think that we're really commercial. I've never felt commercial, like
commercial never do a Snickers
commercial commercially, what does that even mean? Right? Like it's it's I don't quite understand
why people say this. Are you you know, an indie anymore. You're not indie enough or
which is almost like just a tall poppy like, every everyone. Like that's inevitably what's going to happen. It's very hard to if you keep going, yes. get to a point of like, when that happened. Yeah. And so it like it feels inevitable in some way. Yeah,
yeah. So it's, I suppose. Broad is what I think we are, which is so I think people confuse indie with niche. Yeah, there's niche style of content and which is something that I bloody love. But that's not as natural for us. Like, we've got things that we like that are probably bit wieder and the ego Okay, we won't do that. But you're
your own niche. That's the interesting thing, which isn't what happens at the start, I guess at the start, it's like, you're talking about your life. But then once you build a certain fan base, then there's probably more people that like Hamish and Andy, then collect specific steps.
This is the advice culture though to say I know you need to know because sign felt the show about nothing. No one's now saying time felt dumb idea. No, yeah, no one's now saying Hamish Nnamdi dumb idea.
Yeah, I think that if again, if you if you start out just trying to make the show you want to make. And we got lucky that it was broad. Like people guys have had not swearing as I can I really swear all that much me I will, you know, I made to the pub or whatever. But it's it's not. We weren't. We weren't not doing the content we wanted to do. And similarly, you know, Howard Stern left radio, too, because he couldn't do the show
exactly what he wanted satellite. So he could didn't have to deal with all of the regulation. Exactly. He wanted to
talk about sex and swear and everything. And it's not like I'm ever held back from I was like, Damn, I wish I was talking about, you know, all these things.
He's even data back
what he's doing monetization, obviously, different conversation where you're at versus the start of a where we're at. Do you think that monetization of this type of content? Is there going to be a new version of that? Is it going to be beyond advertisers paying for ears and eyeballs?
Yeah, I think there's so many places for advertisers to put their money now. So it's really difficult I reckon to choose and what what I think they should be doing is looking for more close a brand plays brand alignments. So it shouldn't be about hey, these other look up demographics, etc. but but even deeper than that, just going one of these two guys stand for what a Tommy and Josh and and and does this link really well, to our to our brand,
so where the networks sit, because I have a lot of friends who are getting into networks, and they get they get really pumped about it. And we want to celebrate everyone, but it's also like, you're you're then amongst a bunch of of numbers, if it's a network based on we have a million, you know, plus listens a week or whatever, or a day based on a huge amount of podcast name.
But yeah, yeah. So the fact that they're all again, it's a way they have to monetize it. So if people don't follow this, essentially, they been reset, good racing bundle. So a podcast platform will bundle a lot of shows together, because it's very hard to sell advertising for, say 100 listens near or 200 listens there. But if they get 10, or 12 of those shows, suddenly, if we could sell advertising across 3000 listens. So I explained that the hard thing is that That to me is a great model, because it means that even though not much money is going to flow back to the smaller podcast, at least they are seeing some money. And it's proportionate. The hard thing is, I think he told me the other day, I might be getting wrong, but it's in the ballpark. There's I think 770,000 podcasts in the world. Yeah.
And the median. So how many listeners? Do you think the very middle podcast has? Yeah,
I think it's like 120, or something. Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah.
So there's Seth Godin talked about in that meta,
right. So there is a lot set that so there's a lot of noise out there for podcast to have to try and break through. So if you're sitting there going, this is going to be my job for the rest of my life, you have to think about it in a completely different terms,
then, because I even considered around like schooling and education, right. And the difference between going to university to study arts and the idea that there's going to be 150 directors coming out of the CIA, all vying for a job, I guess, to your point around that network sort of model for that longer tail, to be able to if you really believe in it, if you You really think that you are going to be in that top 10%, then a network, you know, maybe doesn't make sense. But to your point it also about the admin, I think the admin thing is interesting, too. We take for granted production. Yeah, we take for granted all of these things like having a lace, being able to run a business where the idea of being able to walk into a studio and just click and record is a big deal for some people. Oh, absolutely, really huge barrier of entry, and yours looks polished. And you guys know how to do that stuff, like so that there are competitive advantages.
And then that is a cut above the other ones, which is great, but it's the things you have to work on. And sometimes you have to have money for all you have to put that investment in. And I'm not suggesting to any young podcaster you need more money, make it look shabby, it's more because you might put that money in and you never see it again. So it's so they're tough decisions. But yeah, it's it's a really, it's a really interesting. The other thing I find, though, is staying power. If you love something, and you actually want to do it sticking around long enough, you generally will get it get there. Yeah, like in a version of it. There's not too many, like you see some people that become super successful late in life, we could devise a really good example. But, but even not the super successful, like, I've got a lot of contemporaries from Channel 31, who I've bumped into and gone, what are you doing, and they've stuck at it. And now they are they're producing the news over here, or they're doing this and that and if you are keen enough, and you love it, you you'll find you'll find a job. It may not be that, you know, you might not be the next Wolverine. Because there's only one of those if there's ever going to be another one again. But the but yeah, you you we had a fun make a living out of it or
the same be the bigger the ship, the hotter it is to turn when you're starting out. So you can be making, you know, decisions dropping this starting that testing learning. Have you found as you've gone on the journey, that it's actually harder to just take everything off the table and move on? We're here to do something different. Yeah, yeah, I think that
I suppose that there's, we kind of try to free each other up for all that stuff. Which is because the reason we're doing it was for fun. But you're talking from my perspective, there's certainly times you go, should I do this? Should I do that? What's the cost? Am I go if I wouldn't get a porno?
And I've taken the extreme
I wouldn't get a porno.
How much do I want to do this porno? Because I am risking the whole brand. I'm risking a joint brand on my own, but
whoever you doing the partner with.
So you definitely take those thoughts into the extreme extreme example. But you take those things into account. But at the end of the day, I we kind of
at the end that you hope to live in a world where you could go into the park
because you you should be you hopefully should be able to do whatever you wanted to do.
But I you know, I should have said like a strange documentary about whales and that I've watched it. So yeah, it's not like if a home or any of our my mates in right across it with Ryan Shelton or Timothy, if they all face it all, like, I'm really passionate about doing this. We go Okay, well, let's work out ways to do it. Because that is why we got into this in the first place. It's just following passions. So what are the boxes that you have to take? Because we normally have like, these three boxes?
It either pays well, it's good from a creative perspective. And it's with good people. And yeah, we we have to just pick two. Yeah, like, as long as we take two could be really great people and great creative, the money might be shipped, but that's that's okay. Or might be, you know, great people and good money. Yeah. Have you worked out what those filters are for you? And
generally, it just comes down to? Do I really want to do this. So it's it's not so much about like, making a living as much as used to be like, because, you know, obviously, I've been fortunate on that run. It's like, Am I pumped to do this? And the podcast? I am like, I just love it so much. And so that's, that's exciting to me. And there are other things that caught my go, yeah, I think I really do want to do that. And, and normally, if you following things that you love it they you end up putting a lot more work into them. And with a lot more work, things clearly turn a bit better. So that's kind of where I am at the moment, it's probably not, doesn't make great fiscal sense, like this times where I'm like spending money on something. And I'm like, well, this is good. I'm just going to cost me more than that. But I just wanted to do it. I loved it. So yeah, that that's probably the only filter at the moment. But back in the 10 years ago, the field is really different.
And so the podcast using the podcast as an example. How much of that? Is that the format? versus how much of it is just being in a studio with him and jack? And like, what what is it about that?
Yeah, I think it's, it's hanging out at home. And I just love it. I just can't get enough of it. in that in that environment, particularly because the from from idea to execution quit so quick. And it's just us. Yeah. And so you're not really relying on anyone else to bring it to life. So there's this level of comfort there. But with putting that one aside, which given it's just hearing from people I got the interaction is what I love the best, the participation rate is huge. And it's just so much fun. And that's had radio. And it was really awesome. That didn't have to give it away by stopping that we could have the podcast and have, you know, people reaching out and just adding their own funny today,
the Joe things interesting like Tommy and I just experiencing this for the first time. And so we've got the initial stage of Tommy got an email today from a brand saying Hey, will you MC and Tommy's responses? Like if we do it as a July we can we can do it.
Just not fun by myself to be honest. Yeah.
So what what was that experience? Like? And then also, what has it been like in recent months or years where you have started to have a crack at that stuff? And
I mean, it seems like it's a pretty seems to people more like we're doing more solid stuff now than ever, because the solid stuffs really big. So like, Hey, I'm doing Lego masters is a really popular show that he was often he did the librarians and he did speaks and specs for you know, 56 episodes that during its course like the he guessed it the most and, and I did talk about you Jen back in the day, and also be the specs and specs, and they've done a short film or done the kids book. And so we were actually doing and you're in a band.
Yeah. Man. So,
so any given your life?
So you do so when people I think because it's in a creative field and it and it's really public facing like, say Lego masters or me doing your gin pill got high. Now they're doing stuff on their own. Oh, that must be weird. It's like now it's been like that for since the beginning. What about the perception though? Because that's something that I find interesting is it's like, even if it's not, Tommy, in my joint experience, it seems like there is
having an audience play something interesting into a Joe not so much of the Joe dynamic, but the way in which people perceive Yeah, and look at it from a psychological but like,
you, we I think I mean, for me, I think what I do, Solo is just so different to what Amy Schneider was the collective side, I just, I don't think I could do anything different corner can take away from what Heyman? I do. And I think I've really come. And I probably didn't feel that 10 years ago, I probably felt far more connected. But you get past and also run the treadmill there. And it's all growing and you're hoping you you know, you're worried that someone's going to take your job, and who's the young people coming through all that kind of stuff. So I think you get to a point where that doesn't, it doesn't bother you anymore, which is really nice. And and then the times you split and do stuff, you always come back with better learnings. So anything we've done individually has made the collective better as well. And the same for there's four of us that work on the TV stuff together. It's the same with that Tim will go away and he directed little lunch for Ron Butler and hoping a new Netflix series. It's coming out for them as well kid shows and stuff. And he would come to us and say, Hey, we know we all know our TV production. Production Company is the priority. But guys, there's a chance I could take this time off to go to that. And everyone's like, of course, because you're going to come back and go, you know what, I met this tip, we use this lighting guy. That's amazing. We tried shooting on these different cameras, which was interesting. I wouldn't recommend this I would recommend so we're getting this all this knowledge. And the same with with with high with Lego masters like him going back and going. This is how they're doing the reality side of things. We've never done that. Yeah, that's just awesome to hear and learn and put another little arrow in our quiver for our production company. So yeah, it probably comes in probably come from pretty poor place to stop anyone doing those things. And I think normally, people might assume that there's a fear that if he does that, then maybe we don't do anything ever again together. But we're pretty comfortable. So
Jay Hawkins was on the show. The other week he was talking about Jay PJ and how the end of every year they'll go out to dinner, have a boozy dinner as Jace would and talk with their partners and they work out what are we going to do next? What is that relationship like with him? Is it every single year it's we're going to have at this time of the year we start to renegotiate for the next year or
Yeah, so deals often are just really sometimes a longer term and stuff so and yeah, it's so we've talked about that stuff when they come around a bit more. But yet, it's generally that's not like a set time or anything, but it's just generally checking in we talked, we talk all the time anyway. But so it's it's not like you ever going to receive something that you like, I didn't expect that coming. So yeah, we talk all the time and go, how do we feel about this, you're loving this. And often it's Yeah, I'd love I'm loving that, let's continue it or I don't think I have the time this year, or I'm beating nervous that I might be burnt out all these things in the end. I just know that. And I'm sure what I'm saying is like, unless we both want to do it, we're not going to coerce the other person, we don't really care, it's like there's there's plenty of other things to go and try our hand at. And so it's it's not a nervous conversation as it was again when I say 10 years ago, where for me personally I'm going to hope he wants to still work with me because I'm loving this and so it's gone really well and this means this amount of money and stuff that that probably played more in my head back in the day. We still both had mature conversations to be able to go hang on the only work if we're both loving it so if anyone wants to step away, we respect it. But that was probably more of a fear and now it's just like sure with like, what do you want to do? Yeah, great. Awesome. I wanted that as well but that so it's we're in a happy place it's
almost earning it though. You've kind of that in your relationship and it all evolving. Is there something that you personally did to change you or better you that actually then resulted in a shift in the team
I think I think we're always both of us always tweaking
yeah I'm not to be confused with working
but yeah, I mean this this definitely I think also like early on
I'm a bit I know this as like a bad about a lot of things like like I like things being like perfect going out or as a version of our version of perfect so I'm looking at edits a lot and that can probably weird and it'll be and and just you know even not just not just for the Hamish Marcia but for the broader our broader producing team we'd have something would happen on it even if it was awesome as success as soon as the song would go everyone you know if I'm claps over these exciting thing you're just lucky no well I normally will Canada you know, we should done you know like that was that was something that I used to do. And Sammy Kev who used to be a producer one day just pulled me aside and said hey, I love that you want everything to be right and all could be better but just let everybody have the moment and enjoy the moment yourself. We can talk about it tomorrow if you still care about it but just let us have the moment and that was really good advice because yeah instead of like finishing a break and sitting in front excited and going you know what the second colour should be the third or whatever it is
you had or was it something you're aware of?
manually aware? Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's been it's been great advice for completely ongoing as well there's there's there's there's times to sit around and go and actually Pat everyone on the back and everyone enjoy it because that's what we do for and you'll be talking about it tomorrow
but and then look the next day off and it was like Yeah, don't even care
Yeah, so do you sleep it off and then work out that
yeah, it's why the fuck was I worried about that? Why was I even you know, like, the whole the grander scheme of things was to it to be fun funny and it seemed like YN is like it doesn't have to be but there's then there's other times where I'm going now i'd love to bring this up just to reflect on yesterday's show mainly the bigger file like the things that didn't work I loved going hey why why didn't it work? What would be a fail like a you might do a
phone topic or something that he's a good example we chana know bought out
LZ years ago Shannon bought out a cricket song like he I think it was what other like we don't like cricket or something like and it went number one
like it was it was anti cricket no it was it was like cricket either we love it
I think that was the song Mr. 97 might be at a zero Shannon no cricket so I'm kind of call it 2004 or five or something. I think Come on as he does he come on he actually released Come on as he covers that already
a massive cover. Yeah, yeah. Well, he did the what what about me which I love that colour?
blind. Down price white horses Kappa Natalie Imbruglia tune.
That was that was an interesting one when I found out that was
anyway, he bought out
Come on, come on. We thought we would bring it up because it was pretty bad song. We were like all words do there's another cricket song? How's that which was sherbet terribly white song. Like, let's call it how crap and we'll do a parody song of Shannon no song. And we'll try and get it to number one. And it just didn't work. I wasn't really funny and be it just kind of didn't really work and get the momentum. And we did turn around and go. What What were the reasons that that didn't really seeing? Did it feel at the time? That it was cringe or not? Not good
By it about a week later? Will it once you put the song
out? Yeah. So when you were like in the studio, and you know, it was all
as soon as as soon as it almost sounds really slightly this isn't this is not crying at night, well, so that's the thing. And and but the learning I mean, we just we just released it quickly and kind of shuffled away. And it wasn't a big deal, because some people would have thought it was fine. But it just didn't seem like you'd want an idea to kind of take off. But it's a it was a great lesson to go. But the main one we did was like, we set the bar so high, we're going to release a song to beat channel song on the charts. And so we said that from the get go, and there was no way you could exit that idea without having it all. And there's only one way you can be successful, which is if it actually did it. And that where we changed this the augmented a little bit the way we set up ideas to go, let's make sure there's exit causes all the way along the way. If it's not, you can be so pumped about something for two three days and then realise it doesn't have legs. Yeah. And so yeah, that would probably be a change we made to go. Let's not lock ourselves into having to go through with
promises we make a lot of I make a lot of promises on the show. And sort of my default is like, let's, it's funny. Let's do it. Did you have to rein them in? Or did you really pedantic about making sure that if you said something? So for instance, we've got a listener who's getting the daily talk show tattoo, Hayden gronk of the show. And so, we said that we're going to do it on Friday. Last week, we ended up having another fat Friday thing, so we haven't got it done yet. How pedantic are you about we say something, semi write it down?
Yeah, we were we were we were but the thing was, like, if it wasn't only if it was still funny. So you could say something and go the next day. We're in the moment there. We wish this actually isn't that funny, or we're not that jazzed about it. And we'd rather go in here and go, and I always say this yesterday, but tomorrow, we like this isn't happening. This is the Oh yeah, Either that, or you just don't ever mention it again. And now.
That's what I'm all about. But Tommy, it really rattles it.
Well, I think that you know, that is the GO it's actually a value within me. I won't say something to somebody if I won't do that thing. I'm a bit the same. So like I would probably be more Tommy side. And I'd say homes probably a little bit you're on your on your side, Josh just to throw it
lucky. It is great because
things can happen.
For instance, we had an intern come from Canada three day deal. And he stayed with us for four months. And that was off the back of me saying you should look out for flights to Air Canada. Yeah. So we booked them or so. And then he designed the logo. He designed the logo. He did like a three day squeegee show the the squeegee earrings. It's just there isn't No.
That's Yeah, see. But that's, I think I found part of my role was to hold him to account and he does the same back to me, you say something. I fell away. And I bring these things up six, seven years later. Like, I've got
at least one that was banned from the show.
Yeah, there's things that come back and you go and I know Ben pod people a podcasting old episodes, and they'll write to me and go, he realised he said this, and I'll look it up. This is great. And so like, so and that's even that's also funny. So I don't think it has to happen straight away. You guys, we have a long time doing this stuff. But tell we might be able to go in about probably the most annoying time possible and say, You know what? You said this, we should be doing this.
We're going to build a part of our website that is promising itself happened.
There was a Howard, Howard Stern leaked video of him speaking to a Sirius XM team for an hour and a half going on about what they needed to be doing and they weren't doing enough being such a successful radio show. Did you have those conversations of like where someone the leverage, we should be doing this and we should be doing that
we've been really lucky. Our team was really great. We always would check in again, not led by me but by up producer Sammy. We'd always check in just to see how everyone was feeling about their jobs. And because a happy team with always been advised thrown in. And yeah, we dress sit never in a dressing down Poway but if something went wrong, we will we'll talk about it. And if people are like us, I'm so sorry, I'm swamped with this. That's why I couldn't get to that, like I will let's let's help them isn't. It always came from a place of Let's help everyone be successful. Um, but yeah, those those conversations are really healthy. And yeah, we did them a bit alone on the journey.
What's the 2019 community like the media community, or like, we feel like we're sort of this weed out of place thing that we're building with, and we can't necessarily work out what it is. So we feel like we're onto something. Yeah, it feels like we're onto something and it just it's working. Do you get a sense having seen the working dog sort of those days and saying like more of those obvious things? Where Where do you think it's all going?
I think that I think you guys are absolutely on something I think that the all the online content is still trying to work out where it sits and people may and I think more Moreover, people are still trying to work out how to find it, how to find them things it's amazing for like kids I'm talking like you know 10 to 14 year olds, how they don't watch any TV that they have all these YouTube stars that they love following
I've talked about that before home and and going What should we be should we be going into that space because that's where it is but it just doesn't really interest Yeah,
what about bringing them into the show? Like a thinking about guests? How do you filter Are we going to have this person or that person
on nowadays it's just like we like them we are interested in them that's that's as simple as that it's some we had a when we came back to do radio second stint I remember meeting they're like hey, can you guys have Jenna Marbles on I think it was and I had no idea who she was do I do now but a big YouTube stuff people they don't
really change their look by the way actually
yeah coloured hair now.
Yeah, I mean she was the blonde and she still got the dog Just give me one up that
I just found out she was blonde has a dog
blonde okay, but it
really sort of ice I was watching EV ism. Oh my god this is Jenna. I used to watch a years and years and years Yeah, right. So that was the things people were like going
Jenna Marbles and I said I fucking have no idea this person isn't like she's huge. And I was like she's not to me. Yeah. And I just didn't want to miss him I just didn't want people on the show that I didn't understand or couldn't really relate to and now maybe I was a sign of us getting older or and that it was just an awesome maybe a sign of the this the show changing to go land just wants to be where it needs to be doesn't need to have to take every box. But funnily enough, we had the same argument when Kim Kardashian was offered the show I had no idea she was this is before she really took off. And and Sam's going Hey, Kim Kardashian is like please Kim Kardashian she's there blinded nothing. God not there's no way when I'm in reality star on this is this is not happening. Now they're all very big, prominent stars. The reality is that reality is the biggest stars in the world. In some YouTube stars are the biggest stars in the world. So it's a different offering now, but back then for me, I was like, no way. So we both said no home said no. And then circle back in the face sounds like it's gone up to upper management, they'd really would like for our audience. They really think people would like Kim conditionally. She's Fucking Christ. Hey, so we had our own God. All right, we're gonna spend more time arguing with this person on Yeah, and you know, Cadillac six months later, and she's probably the biggest thing in the world. And
how was that? I mean, because once people like Ian, and they're on in the studio, yeah, the experience is going to be the same in regards to like, you guys bring the energy and get excited about him, you celebrate them? How do you celebrate, in that scenario, where it's like the back of your head, you don't give a fuck?
Well, that we talked about that a lot throughout time, particularly early days at Fox where you you are being told to have these people on, because they have huge pop stars coming but I didn't really know who they were. And I thought now My job is to find the angle that I do want to talk to them about. And as soon as we found them, and we found some excitement and that's why generally the interviews are quite different. Because we're going with this find what we would be pumped to talk to them about or play with them. And then it became really fun. Didn't matter if that were the biggest download orders the listener not just listen or listener, we're still just going to be as pumped and it would turn out just as just as great. So that was the the way we walked into those learned very quickly to not further that you know, the toys out of the cotton these things so it's like let's just think of a good idea that makes us interested in attempts on us now you know, it's not about trying to stop things stop stop input. Let's just take the input and make it as good as we converted
within even Kim Kardashian we
are you issues car fine. I mean, it's like his different people that you didn't expect the camera on and then there by blow your way like, and you go, Wow, that person is heaps of fun and, and that's really cool. But you can get equally as disappointed by these people who come on just you they stay spawning through it. They don't really care either. And I got Well, we're both here not caring. That's fine.
You been doing a bit of media because you've got your new book definitely do not open this book. How many kids books? How many for for for your book? Is that one a year? Yeah.
Love, love the process of writing?
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's like when people write write young novels, or even a novel, and and I and these books have, like, I know, probably less than 500 words. So I do say the process of writing. I feel like it wasn't an iPhone notes on that, yeah. So that's why I feel like a little bit of a fraud when it comes to that. But I do love the process of crafting the books. And if people don't know, it's called Do not open this book. And essentially, the idea is to try and stop kids turning the page and using all the tricks you can and sometimes it's frightening them reverse psychology, it's kind of character and turn the book upside down. So then they start turning the wrong way. And then they kind of work it out. And all these tricks to stop someone to reverse psychology ultimate reverse psychology. Yeah, exactly. You use the word definitely. Which is a, I think a hard word to spell. Yes. It's one of those words that for what it I was accidentally writing to find like, yeah, was that a consideration when you were writing, I love putting data. I love putting words that are hard to spell in the books, like a categorically in this one. And that was the first bit of feedback I got when I was never meant to be published. The first one I just wrote it for my nephew is and as a test book and my major publisher in and he asked me they could publish it. But he was like, all look like I know this word. And I was like, Yeah, but remember when we're at school grade prep, or one and we learned Mississippi, or super fragile California anti terrorism. And the fact is that even made the longest word I think Exactly. And I was like Googleplex was something was really excited about learning before actually, Google became a thing. Yeah. I love that. I'd love that to be the discussion. I'd like kids to go. I can't say it. I think it's really funny when kids can say words, but also they're going to actually go What does that mean? Rather than just breezing through it? So that's that's that's kind of where why
those words are in there doing the rounds going to all the different studios and chain to different people. Does it give you a different perspective? Like obviously, you were on the other end? Yeah. Where people coming in and chatting to you. Do you know how to be be a good guest? What does that
what does that mean? You guys can tell me? Yeah.
Definitely, I think it definitely, definitely realise that it's it. Look, it's not so much.
All the major cities, there are brilliant performers, you probably realise what the big stars are going through when you go out regionally, and start doing all the regional radio shows you do that I haven't done with this, but we've done with the TV shows before. And that's a hard slog, that's where you have to work much harder as a guest. And I love that challenge. I just feel like I was always so grateful when we're on the other side of the desk being the question asking team that if someone was there to play along, and was keeping the ball in the air and giving up stuff, so yeah, every time if I've committed to an interview, I'll try and do the same thing now. Because there's nothing worse than a style gift.
Yeah. Is there been a guest that's been extremely generous in their style? Because I guess people can you know, they they bring something to the world just an energy like I think like your your energies, your openness, you're willing to not just have fun and laugh, which I think can be the default for a lot of people in commercial radio. It's like they don't do an hour of laughing at being able to actually like change the energy to not necessarily your normal normal stick i think is what you do. Well, I love the chat that you did. With will Anderson. It was amazing. Is there been an example of a guest that's done that for you guys where they've just shown up?
Yeah, I mean, there's there's probably only a handful of them. You're like, holy shit. You didn't need to do that. That's awesome. And Tom Hanks was one he's just he was just a really funny and people forget that. Tom Hanks was just a comedy star in the 80s you guys probably never saw his comedy films, but like far out there. They're fucking good batch the party. Big unless you've ever seen big movie. That'd be the one I'd go go back and watch big
okay. it's it's a it's a doing promo for Tom Hanks.
said it's about these kids like one of my favourite films from the 80s.
How's it going to trampolining? Vo? Yeah, hope it does. York. Yeah.
Yes. Hope it sticks out. But essentially, this kid is at a fair goes up to his old time machine, which is this weird, mysterious machine and gets a wish granted, and he just wants to be big. Yeah, he's wants the biggest secret being a kid and then wakes up and he's Tom Hanks. And he's meets up with his best friend. He's like, has to convince his best friend that now it's him, you know? And then gets a job testing toys at in New York, and girls really like it. But he's still the kids mentality. But he's he's, he's big. And yeah, it's it's a it's a it's a classic. He's good.
So what did he What did Tom was Thomas
was like, he was so giving and fun and up for last. But then like, we started, it was Ferb the angels vs damages the sequel to Da Vinci Code. And there are some aspects of the film where we were finding it funny. Like there's a part where he got locked in this museum, which was it had to be what's the word that that the temperature and also the the atmosphere within the museum library had to be low? Because to preserve the books.
And we were laughing going, how do you kind of portray that the atmosphere is changing. And like,
we noticed that there's a big cutaway shot to like a big dial on the side of the light. And he was he this this took that and ran. He's like, Oh, yeah, there's all these unrealistic things that we're all and he's listing all these things that, of course, is and I'm running. I'm running everywhere, but I'm never perfect if you notice. He's talking about all these things. And you going this is so great that he's picked up but we're nitpicking his movie. And he's fine with it. Yeah, he's picking it up and running. And you walk out of those and go oh, that's that was really cool.
Is it just, I mean, you could if you were being a you know, if you're looking at a guy was that what Heyman I broad? Or was that fire? What he brought to us? Or, you know, I think it's both
Yeah. And to not sound arrogant? It certainly was, it became a competitive advantage for him and I because we weren't interested in people's private lives very much. Which was relieving for a lot of people. Not by not by choice, not like I don't ask that but it's it was just we just went there to have fun. And we found that guests would come back because mainly the Booker's would no safe place the guests will have fun if these people are travelling to Australia we just want them to have fun because that they have better experiences maybe they'll come out again all those things we're not looking for a Daily Mail no go where there is radio shows that that's their bread and butter it's like what can we get our news.com to you may send it they get straight off your interview and I've had this I just get stuck into and I just send send the one line that's gonna make me look the worst Daily
Mail Andy Andy late to thinking about a point
that's true me that. It's it's really easy to do that. So that was a that was gave out a barrier to entry. An easier barrier to entry for those people's like they going to be finding when we're overseas. We had situations where we will we we went to New York for instance, to to interview, Johnny Knoxville, Jessica Simpson, and it was Sean Williams Scott's different that isn't for Dukes of Hazzard and Warner Brothers would go Hey, guys, you and we know you're an hour, you know, in an hour's time, but can you come in now this the actor is isn't hasn't got a great energy and we thought we put we put you guys in to try and change the mood for the for the interview day. And you're like, cool, like, so they even knew that we could potentially go in and have fun with someone and IB Well, you know, loosen up a little bit for the rest of things. So that did become a competitive advantage. Your book where can put where's the best place to buy it? I reckon small bookstores. Yeah, I know. I know. We can get a big W and stuff and I really appreciate it but I can bookstores really need everything they can get at the moment. Yeah.
And places like the always interesting got a bunch of other stuff going on.
Yeah. What have you got a favourite one in Melbourne that you
I like the year in South Melbourne in
commentary, straight, straight books to find it. When I first
saw your first book was in there. I was in there and flicking through it. Yeah. And that's what came to mind when you said small books though.
It's such a nice vibe. Isn't it? Like just going to those smaller ones? And yeah, even if you like you even like I haven't looked at businesses in general. And you think about you know what a lease costs.
And you like I know anything about I was like restaurants and everything's online. They say sorry, go past the stores or don't go God. Good fucking
thanks so much coming on. I feel like when I put these headphones on, I it brings me back to being in my car listening to you all those years and the energy like I feel I was always happy when I got out of the car and you do that?
You've got the
big Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's like, in a lot of ways. That's like, understand. Yeah, that was the even it's so funny that people differentiate between Are you guys were doing writing on them podcast, but I remember just podcasting like it. Like, you know, I was sick. So I was like all that, like, just listening through, which took us a long time to get so we wanted to do the podcast from the get go. We love Ricky Facebook. Yeah. And then austerity. We're not interested in that not not not doing and so we ended up like getting it up. So if we did ourselves, can we get it? You know? And so we put it out, I think was 2006. And it's kind of funny, because there were not many podcasts around. So you are automatically in the top 10 if you're
talking about money today,
yeah. But it was I used to listen back again, weirdly, just to see how it was cut together, making sure that it sounded smooth cetera. And one day I heard an ad in there and I was like,
if I can put an ad in things from Nick Malloy, his film was for boy town. Yeah. We didn't say he goes you didn't even want to let us have pockets and he slipped today.
Yeah, we noticed that it's actually going okay. Well Oh, you want to tell us this inside? It's
a funny little argument that that we had but yeah, it's it's nice to debate so many years of doing it.
You listening to any podcasts that you can recommend or, um,
I kind of listened to a few of the regulars I did this. I mean, I really liked the TED Talks one but that's that's not that's nothing new. I isn't is a is three guys called welcome for patchwork, you know, yeah. I really like that. I really like this stuff, as well. And yeah, it's, I tend to just browse and see a topic that I like, and often and this is the problem with like Spotify and stuff, often don't actually know what it was ever called. No, I have not when I said I was listening to the expert one I don't actually know what it's, I think it's called trust the trust me, I'm an expert. I think it's called but again, I got the Browse feature in the car. And yeah, so where does
brand actually lie? Then I went like, where does how to podcast like ours? stand out? I guess you need to get people back. 2345
or get up in the brass section? Because it's only limited in the car.
Yes. What I do
so it's so it's strange away. I mean, I also like junk time AFL podcasts and and you know, this bunch of people that are friends with that do great stuff. But it's it's interesting. Just they haven't worked out how to cure it yet. iron. I'm not sure if you guys agree. But
you had the the social. There's been a few podcasts that are specifically gone out out of the gone for that market. Have we a social app for podcasting switch was one of them, which is like, it will show you what your friends are listening to. But word of mouth seems like the the most powerful out of them all. Yeah, like, I don't know how many people are finding us in the charts and clicking through and then listening.
But if you know the charts, then it's hard to
think of the charts. It's like, is it also the chart is not? I think Apple do a probably a good thing. But the chat doesn't represent the most listened to podcast in the chat because it'd be the same ones. Probably every everybody has a big followers, they
really are in their favourite.
It represents basically, there's a actually have never told us the algorithm with us so many times you actually have Yeah, because it's so often doesn't really make sense. But I think what they're trying to do is make sure there's enough new content going in there. And I really, really like that. Is you noticing that 1010 people? Yeah,
yeah. And then you only need to get it in the charts wants to say that you're in the exactly right. every
way. We got it. We got it to 56.
Yeah, just all around about 50. Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, thank you can actually say yeah, without lying American. Without line. That's what we want to do. Yeah. Hey, mission, I have a game called I'm not lying game. Essentially, you know, it's to help with like, safe. I think the first example was, I had a carry for dinner at the restaurant, and it was shit. And the waiter came along and said, how's your meal? And I didn't want to say it was shit. But I definitely wasn't ever gonna say it was good. So I said, Who doesn't love a good character?
And they went great. And clean my plate was like, this wasn't a good one. But I didn't send it.
So I, we spent water all over my MacBook last week and went to the Apple Store, right? And was determined not to mention water. I was never going to mention water. And so I was like, Yeah, so the USB wasn't working. And so I just focused on something else. So I just said sometimes in my iPhone, they get fluffing, I think there must be fluffy a lot of fluff fluff fluff. And they came back and they checked and they said, I look nicer. I said, Did you say fluff? And there's because I use panicking. They said No, nothing like that. No water damage was very good, but I did I couldn't help it smile at that point. I said, Yeah, well the damage.
Like another good example for not lying is there's a guy that was having 209 and he was annoying.
he said, Okay, well I've say it's like I'm, I'm heading back to Melbourne and
maybe I'll catch up with you guys. And Haim said I'm going to get the wording right which I just clicked when he said it I was like this is brilliant not lying. He said
and you know I look forward to catching up in Melbourne
that's awesome because he's true I look forward to saying hey we should I like
Great game yeah you guys could say well let's let's work let's workshop for the podcast charts you can you could say
one of the strays most listened to podcasts.
Well, this is what we're so we're saying that at the moment on our website. I think we say the the the only daily pod podcast and video show Australia Australia I think I put aside in there
the only podcast The only daily podcast and video show in Australia.
So you have a number one exactly the number one daily podcasts and video
which is that the number one video
and now we put Andy lay
out if you have enjoyed the show reviews, I think Apple podcast reviews are nothing necessarily helping the charts but it shows people that went on shoot, you know,
it's a great thing. It's a it's also I often have a little look down the reviews. So
thanks for coming on, Andy. Hey, thanks so much for inviting me. This is the first handshake with on the show when I approach a talk show hi the daily talk show.com his email address you want to send it send us an email. Otherwise we'll see you tomorrow for Saturday which is jack pose and radio Mike their band. They're doing a performance live on the show. Stick around
because you guys you guys