0:04
It's the daily Talk Show Episode 764. What's happening guys what's going on? I'd like to welcome Maddie Connors to the show. Welcome, Maddie. Hi, how are you? Yeah, we're very good. I was very excited because

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you and I have a bit of a connection.

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I know we didn't talk about this off air, but I lived in shepparton. And I know you grew up in ship to I called himself a chef celebrity. I don't know how I'm curious whether you know His voice

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or whether be completely honest. Did you listen to the radio?

0:42
Shit. Yeah. Now, she's got no idea because this is embarrassing for me.

0:48
I thought you might recognise me from Star FM and Shepard but not giving out RC coke cans of coke and things like that. Somebody will just talking. You're an Aboriginal artist and you were saying

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Now you're going to do a Welcome to Country Is that what it's what it's called.

1:07
Um, so it's called an acknowledgement when you're not on your country.

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And anyone can do an acknowledgement so you don't have to be an Aboriginal person or Welcome to Country has to be done by a traditional owner of that country that they're doing the welcome on.

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So for example, I'm a yada yada judge arm and give me the right woman so I could do a Welcome to Country on my country, yada yada country in shepparton. Or judge I run country in Bendigo area, so around that area. So for an acknowledgement.

1:41
Generally, you would say I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners on the land of which I make today and whether you know who they are that you're meeting on. So for where I am, I'm meeting on we're under the land. But otherwise, you can say I'm meeting on the Kulin nations land of

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coordinations but there's different ways of sort of unpacking that. Yeah, it's not too hard. And as I said, anyone can do it. I know that my son does it at Kindle as well. And someone was saying before that they, yeah.

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My son does it and he gets out the front because they say it and then the kids say it. He's got onto the hot seat and actually says it and gets the other kids decide to it's, I mean, it's, it's a big difference from probably when we were at high school, you know, in Kenda. I mean, I was blown away that, you know, insert it's such a sweet thing for these kids to be learning at such a young age because I know that, you know, our generation younger weren't learning this stuff in high school in kindergarten. When you think about like, even the like, the National Anthem, you think about the fight you think that all these things that it like it, even contradictory to doing that.

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And so Maddie with the

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Welcome to Country or the acknowledgement type of stuff, has that been always something that you've done from a young age or something that's been in sort of the vernacular, or is this something that is, and we're only just starting to do it in the last, you know, 1015 years?

3:19
See, I think in community, it's been done my whole life, but probably not at high school. I don't recall them doing it at assemblies or anything like that. So I'm 30 this year, I'm not that I'm not that old, but I'm not that young. And, and I can't remember them doing acknowledgments to country. Occasionally I would I remember them having an elder come and do a welcome but that was only for special events that the school would have, whereas now I feel like people are more

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like open to having those conversations. So before I went on maternity leave

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I worked in government. And we would always have acknowledgments for meetings.

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Occasionally people didn't. And I think there was a real push to make sure that it wasn't tokenistic. But it was something that genuinely people were doing because it's, it's a really important part of, you know, being on someone else's country. And you know, that's when we say our country was sovereignty was never stated here. And this is Aboriginal land. So, for Aboriginal people, it's really important that we're acknowledging all of that history when we're doing an acknowledgement or welcome. And we're acknowledging the past wrongs but also we're acknowledging that it's sacred and we're standing on important ground rather than, you know, just saying Hi, welcome to the meeting sort of thing and really acknowledging the the true depths of it. Is there any place where it's not appropriate to do an acknowledgement

5:01
Not that I can think of. Yeah, I'm not sure I'd be the best person to answer that.

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Was there any way that you I'm aware that you'd like to see it done more? If I mean,

5:18
on different platforms, social media, these kind of things? Like I mean, it was the first time you asked us before the show, would you would you like to do one and it's something we'd never considered for the show, which could be a ignorance and and it's, you know, part of the learning process for us which is it which is why we wanted to chat to you want to stop about this stuff, even like I guess that like from a digit like that whole digital space, versus like, so for instance, saying email signatures or saying websites It feels like it's become a commonplace to see it there. And I think that why I love the question is because it's, um, I think that there's a bunch of other things that are challenges. So when you do that you own

6:00
Have to when you do an acknowledgement, I think it makes you reflect on the content that you do or representation and things like so for instance, with the everything that's happening with the, you know, Black Lives Matter stuff, I think that we tried to work out, okay, it's not just a tile on Instagram and you know, you do this thing, but what are you actually doing? And so, yeah, I think that

6:28
Yeah, I do wonder though these types of things I think that they actually will really move the needle in a in an important direction because if you're going to acknowledge then all of a sudden, you have to answer all the other questions to you have to consider the other stuff.

6:45
You do. Yeah, definitely. And and also coming in with an acknowledgement you have to really understand whose country you're on and, and what's the history there. So it's about you know, doing a little bit of research and talking to people as well. So you really

7:00
educating yourself, learning about our history, and then you're sharing that with those who you're with or, you know, obviously on the radio or on this show, you're, you're sharing that with your listeners as well, which can be really powerful. I think, even just in that small sentence, just trying to unpack that. And then it gets other people to think about that as well.

7:27
Should we do one? Yes. I mean, sorry, would you be able to do one for us? Well, yeah. So how do we do it? Like if we say, I feel like the thing around it, he's not wanting to stuff it up, or you're not wanting to like, all of a sudden, you're doing this thing to be respectful. It's like pronouncing names like I just I always freak out that I'm gonna say something wrong or pronounce a name wrong. And so yeah, what's the gut like, if we were to start doing it now? What's the what what do you recommend? I do I just google say I went down already. googling welcome.

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Come to country, I could have

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things up really real quick.

8:06
Remember, you have to remember that it's an acknowledgement to country. Yeah. So welcome to countries and Aboriginal person who's broken land can do. Yep. And then acknowledgement can be done by anyone. So you're acknowledging the country. And that's what you can do. And I can do when I'm leaving here, because I'm on someone else's country. So you would start it by saying,

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I would like to start this meeting by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which we meet today. And so then you go down that that's your first sentence, and then you would then either identify who the land you're standing on. And so I think you guys are in

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Melbourne, too. Yeah, yeah, habits. Yeah. I think you said we're wandering. That's his son's, my son's daycare is right near here. And so that's about a K away, so I reckon we're safe. There.

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And so, so then you would say you would then say, I would like to acknowledge the rendering people of this land, I want to pay my respects to their elders, past and present. Or you can say, I want to pay my respects to the elders, or any Aboriginal people in the room today. So it's like, yeah, you're providing that respect. Yeah. And the Kulin nation, my son says that, but I haven't understood what what the background of that is, what are you out? Do you know what that part means? Yeah, so there's there's five claims in the coolest nation, and I'm, I might get them wrong, because I have a lot of information in my head. But Georgia wrong. So I was telling you before that I'm Georgia run. So we are one of the cooler nations and so the cooler nations surrounding Melbourne. And it's sort of like,

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it's really hard to explain, but it's, yeah, there's five clang groups within the coolest

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The nation's and we were kind of in close vicinity in a sense. So it was born around rendre judge around and then there's there's two more but I really feel bad Not knowing that and being able to say that

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that's why we have motion here. When we don't know something he feels I'm able to go. He's my brain when I feel sorry to anyone who is in the other two because I have just had a very busy day and like my brain is mush. So

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I've got a six months old and

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I'm deprived at the moment I'm getting the iPad.

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In a state like that, where does your creativity sit? You know, some people find creativity in pain, or like sleep sleep deprived or cramming last minute or something like that. Where does your creativity shine? What state?

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Yeah, that's a hard one because lately I've been really

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Go ahead and really happy. So generally, when I was younger, my creativity came from pain. And

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I've suffered with depression and anxiety for a very long time. And so a lot of my creativity, whether it was writing or painting or drawing would come from that pain that I felt. But um, I think my creativity also comes from my culture and being connected to something that's bigger and greater. And I feel like I'm connected to something that you can't see. And it's something that you can feel. So when I sit down to paint, I'm just letting go of anything in my head, any of that monkey chatter that you get, and just trying to allow it to happen, basically, so just, I'll sit down and all of a sudden, something will come to me and I'll start painting or I'm also do, I also do digital artwork as well. Generally with the digital stuff, I'll draw from

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So draw with just a pen online paper. So it's really sketchy. And then I'll basically turn that into a digital piece. As a Aboriginal woman, if you're facing mental health challenges,

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is the system that set up does that support your culture? And do you get what you need out of it or this specialised places where you go to seek help? So say, I guess I could go to a psychologist or something like that i people equipped to, you know, to communicate and to work through those things.

12:38
I think there's a real gap in our mental health space, which that's for everybody, but particularly for Aboriginal people. We have, you know, there are different healing methods and we're not able to practice those as much in modern society. And I also don't think there's enough

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evidence

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Put on on our culture being being something that is able to provide us with our positive mental health, like, you know, we're able to practice those traditions where it's making us feel like we're connected. Yeah, there's, I think there's like, I can't speak my own language, which then plays on my identity. And then that plays into your mental health because, you know, it's sort of like a snowball effect. Because my language has been not, you know, kept. And it's not important, I guess, in modern society, where, whereas it's been lost and stolen from us where it just makes it a lot harder to really grasp who you are. And I don't know if that's making sense, but it makes sense to me. Yeah, no, it does. It does. And so, I mean, we've spoken a lot about mental health on this show.

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You know, everyone's, I guess, battle or challenge with it is unique. And so for you, you mentioned it was when you were young. I mean, was it a Was it a realisation? So for me personally, I, I don't think I've identified with having anxiety and I didn't when I was younger, but as I get older, I'm like, Fuck, that's what that is. And maybe I'm just equipped with understanding what it means for you when you were younger. What was your experience, like with mental health?

14:31
Yeah, I probably didn't know that it was what it was. Not until I was a bit older. I always knew that I was anxious. But it was not formally diagnosed until

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I had a death in the family. And then I guess it started from there and experiencing death or so family violence. I've also

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experience as a young person, it those traumas that leaves with you

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are just long, long lasting, and they long standing, you know, they have an effect on you, and whether that's, you know that it's happening, or it's just something that's subconscious. And I think mine was subconscious, like it would just come out in different ways. But that's why I've always had this creative flair. And I've always tried to express myself through my creativity when I was younger, I did photography and also painting and drawing and writing. So I was always very creative. And so you recently started YALI creative and sort of turning this more into a business or something that you do for work? How have you found that the transition of going for having it as sort of a passion project to be something where as clients and you're dealing with, you know, five

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answers and all that sort of stuff. Yes. So it's my website only been going now for 19 or 20 days, which is exciting. But before that, I was working with

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organisations to bring their reconciliation plans or their reports and stuff like that to life. So I would do the digital designs for them. And I was working with big organisations or big corporate sort of people to bring those documents to life. And I was doing some custom pieces on the side as well. So I was kind of already doing the stuff that I'm doing now, but I think now it's on a bit of a larger scale because I'm getting a bit more traction on Instagram. Now that I've got an Instagram page directly for YALI creative, which is YALI underscore creative. And then my website is actually you know, getting a lot of movement as well and Facebook. So my website is www dot YALI creative

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Comdata you, and I have my prints on there and my hoodies and also, yeah, my corporate service stuff that I do as well. alone. But yeah, busy and because I I'm on maternity leave at the moment. So you wouldn't think that I wouldn't be on maternity leave. But yeah, so I'm on. I had my daughter, she's almost seven months and I've got a four year old son but had my daughter seven months ago and yeah, just sort of

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when we went into isolation and into COVID I, I needed something to distract me from being stuck inside. All the time and because I'm very social and I'm an extrovert I was struggling with not being able to go and see friends and family or get out of the house more and go to the shopping centres or talk to people. And also, I find being, you know, my my bubbly self who wants to talk to everyone. I

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Yeah, I was kind of trapped inside like I have my partner, my kids, but there's only so much you could talk about

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this, they start to annoy you.

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But my experience as much as I love them. You mentioned about the like the monkey chatter. And so the creative process actually helps you sort of, it's cathartic to some degree. I know that creatives on the other side when it comes to showing your work and creating website actually putting yourself out there. How do you go? What's your I mean, do you feel confident that space or are you like a lot of us creatives that you get a bit scared once you've actually put something out to the world? You're like, Oh, no, what have I done? Yeah, yeah, I have. Like, I may seem like I'm confident sometimes people will say, oh, you're really confident but actual facts. I'm not. So I think I'm working on that. Now. I'm working on that really hard to try and see my worth as an Aboriginal person as a mother.

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As an artist, as a, as an everything, so I'm trying to just see my worth, and really build my confidence in that space because I'm getting positive feedback. And I generally, I used to post things just on my Facebook, to friends and family to see what their reactions were. And that kind of helps, I guess, build a little bit of confidence. And then I went to a Women's Business retreat. And just before COVID happened to an organisation called nog Amelie who support Aboriginal businesses, whether you're a startup business or you're, you know, fully established, they had a women's retreat for mums who wanted to sort of get into business could take your children with you. And we went and we learned about different things to do with business. And it was there that I actually started to really feel connections with other women who felt the same

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But wanted to do the same things and build themselves up and create financial freedom for them and their family. And I got confidence from those women in that space, which was really nice. And since then I've just stayed friends with some of the women I've met and you know constantly chatting to Naga milli and, and yeah, they've just actually really helped me to be able to build that

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up. When it's all in your head you're thinking, Oh, boy, this is just me right now and then you realise that other people, even people who are out there putting stuff out a feeling same thing it's like the brave person you see is also experiencing the self doubt and I mean that's that's community right when you start surrounding yourself with people who are all giving it a crack. You're like, yeah, yeah, I can I can give this a crack as well. What does community what is community look like for you?

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For me, it's very, very big and it's the Aboriginal community.

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from, from where I'm from, or from now, my, my Melbourne Aboriginal community, very diverse, or I've got community who are in Swan Hill who are in wantable, who are in delong. It's very, very broad and even interstate. So I've met a lot of Aboriginal people on different leadership things that I've been on as you know, when I was in high school and things and I've kept friends with and you just have this different connection with them. When you're you go on these retreats or you go on these leadership courses or, you know, you meet other mob, you're just instantly there's something that that draws you to people in those groups.

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I don't know what it is. It's it's just a really strong connection like it, it it it, it is there. Whereas when I go on to, like a leadership thing with non Aboriginal people, I don't have that same feeling. Is it shared trauma Do you think do you think there's like part of it

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Which is like you've gone through some of the same feelings or experiences? Yeah, I think it would be some of the same things. So you know, you can relate to people

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on a number of different reasons. And one of those could be, you know, because I've got fair skin, I often will then we start talking about being fair skinned black fellows and, and then, you know, you start creating a friendship with that person, or you talk about what happened in school. And often, it can be started on a negative, but then it turns into a positive friendship that you then build each other up and you you give each other strengths where you need it. And I think it's really beautiful like in the community, in the Aboriginal communities when we can build each other up and really empower each other.

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But yeah, I think that's definitely something that is unique the the style or aesthetic of

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Your artwork, like when I think about Aboriginal art that sort of like the distinct sort of dotted effect. Like really like, I feel like when I say that, like I can straightaway, sort of, say, okay, like that's Aboriginal artwork. What is the broader, actual like reality of Aboriginal artwork? What does it look like? And how do you even learn about it? Is it something that's passed down?

23:28
So, for Victorian mob, we don't generally like do painting. So a lot of the time painting is connected to mobs in other parts of Australia, so Victorian is very lineal. And we have adapted some of the dots obviously, you'll see some Victorian Aboriginal people will use dots and that's totally fine. But the I think the

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traditional Victorian way for Aboriginal people was

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Linear very linear lines and the hatching

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But yeah, I when you talk about where did I learn it? I grew up around the corner from my auntie so she was my brother and sisters aren't he not my auntie but I we call them auntie. So if they're an elder, she's an auntie and I used to go around to her house and she would paint and paint and I would watch and learn and ask questions and and then just absorbing all of that and then talking to other family members and I just kind of Yeah, I just learned it and took it on from them and learning and watching and I think I was only about 10 I'd ride my bike around to her house and just learn what she was doing. And yeah, you mentioned

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previously off the off the show about Aboriginal and all has stories by

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Find it. What what what I mean, in turn, you know, because I can, for me I, I can I think we're all great at looking at something instead of forming a story is that how do you go about creating something? Is it based off a story that you've heard and then you're getting inspiration from that. And then the story translates onto the paper or canvas or digital. How's the process was, it's different for the different mediums. It's different for different people. So for myself, for example, like if I was to work with an organisation, they would give me a brief about what it is they want to like, what message they want to deliver, what vision they have. And then I turn that into a story of my own, I guess in a nod which would reflect from my ancestors in the community and my gratitude people like my grandparents and people before me, and I just try and really get in the moment of

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What What is this message? And how will it be translated to community so it's it's an interesting process when I have to work with the organisations but it's it's really quite nice and unique because I'm able to then adapt it and make it

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really grassroots and try and take that and turn it into something that's going to be seen by Aboriginal people as something beautiful but also that the story is very, it connects them. And then for my own stuff, the stories that I'm telling a more personal

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more personal about myself, about my family, my community. me as a mother, me as an Aboriginal woman.

26:49
Yeah, so it's really personal. I think. Some people will have stories I guess that the old people have told them and then they turn that into a creation video.

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Mine so far have been of my experiences.

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How do you feel about? Like, I'm very wary of throwing over the Aboriginal question like, you know, you're here and then all of a sudden you're meant to be this like, representative for everything Aboriginal. What's your take on people asking questions in a respectful way or, you know, being interested versus being like, hey, maybe you should actually just read a book on this.

27:31
Yeah, that's, it's really hard. That's a hard one. Cuz, you know, I really like to help people and bring people on a journey and talk to people, but not everybody likes to and they might have different pains that come with that or triggers that have been connected to that. So I think it's just about being genuinely interested in Aboriginal culture and having a genuine yearning to learn and really want

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wanting to know, and I think just taking it slow. So it's all about body language. If you can read but someone's not comfortable with the conversation, it's probably best to see to a different conversation. But yeah, it's probably like I'm I'm okay with answering questions. It's an especially if it's genuine. But if it's those questions that Aboriginal people will sometimes get, like, for example, I've had, well, how much percentage are you or how much Aboriginal? Are you? Those sorts of questions are really uncomfortable. And we don't talk about percentage, nor do we talk about how much Aboriginal somebody is. It's about is what's inside. And as I was saying, off air, and one of the analogies I like to use is, you know how coffee is black and you add a little bit of milk while it's still coffee, isn't it? Well, I just have a lot of milk in my coffee.

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Until you add sugar. I mean, that could be a problem.

29:04
Well, that could be. And so with, I wonder about like, say with international travel, whenever I'm travelling, I realise how much I don't know about Australia when people just ask the most basic questions. What have you travelled much overseas? And do you have a perception on what the global perspective is on Australia? And like, Do you think we'll ever get to a point where people are understanding the you know, the stories?

29:34
I heard So, I am. So I've only been to a few places. I went to Thailand once when I was 21. That was my first trip overseas. And then I also did when I was at uni, I went over to Canada and New Zealand, and it was actually with uni. The subject was called being indigenous in a global world. And we learned about

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The mouldy people in New Zealand and then the first is first first peoples in Canada. So the Aboriginal Canadian Aboriginal people. And it was really interesting to compare and contrast the different histories and then look at who's

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who's had a bit more progression, like what countries had more progression. And that was really interesting because Australian Aboriginal culture is the longest standing culture in the world. Yet, I felt from a personal perspective, New Zealand was far more advanced with

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like, embracing their first peoples culture, and which is something that you know, I would love to see in languages taught in schools or people being able to speak their language like I was saying before.

30:56
I can't speak my languages and I'm learning slowly

31:01
Which is amazing that I'm now I'm able to but um yeah it's it's just unfortunate that we don't have the similar sort of push from our leaders to have a similar situation to New Zealand although I do understand New Zealand has a way to go and there's still disadvantages as well.

31:24
Looking from afar, they just seem to have it sorted a little bit better than us. And when it comes to the EU and your and what you decide to parent your two little bubbles, how is how is there a thought on maybe what was missing from what you learned or the lessons that you've pulled on that you think they should know? How do you go parenting in that respect.

31:51
I just make sure my son knows who is and help him to see his identity

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as being an Aboriginal person in the world, so I'm talking about my son because we've had those conversations already. And as I was saying, He has gone to kindle and, and he said, cuz he refers to himself as a black fella or black. He's gone to kindle and he's friends. Obviously, four year olds don't understand actual, you know, these sort of discussions. And so his friends have told him that he's not. He's not black. And so he's come home. four year olds can be a little assholes. That's one thing that we've worked out for Tommy son.

32:36
Yeah. So let's let's not base everything on your four year old son. Very literally, I guess. It's hard for them to really grasp the whole understanding. It's actually what's inside. So that's what I'm trying to teach my son. It's I'm saying, you know, it's about what's inside. And we have that discussion and he's, he's understanding it. It's just

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He's conveying that to other people. And he's trying to get his message across because he gets quite angry when people say that he's not a black fella. And he has been quite cross, which is cute, but it's really it's hard because I didn't realise I'd have to have this conversation quite as early as I am. Yeah, I've always wanted to make sure that he knew who he was. And we have those discussions. We've got books we, you know, when I was younger, there wasn't as many books to sort of unpack those truths and unpacks the history in a way that is appropriate for the age that they are. And so I've taken him to rallies so the the naidoc March, I take him to that every year, January 26. I'll take him to that March about change the date so we we take him to things to take into festivals and cultural activities. He had a welcome baby to country when he was six months old, so welcoming the baby to the

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country that he was born on.

34:02
So yeah, there's lots of things that I'm trying to do to make sure that both my children and my partner and family understand

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you know, my culture and my history and my family's culture and history. I feel like when I when I was leaving ship, there was a big push around, you know, community and understanding how what was your experience growing up in in shepparton?

34:26
Yeah, I had I had a good experience. And the school I went to was very diverse. And so I went to McGuire for a little bit when I was in high school, and but then I went after that I went to Golden Valley grammar. So that was a little bit different

34:45
in my last two years of schooling, and that was very different compared to where I went before that. Obviously you would know that who was on the radio that talk

35:03
High School in 2009. I think we, yeah. Who would have been on then? Oh, Jordan, Steph will before us.

35:15
Good Shepherd. And when did you When did you leave? I'm just trying to see if there was any, any closer.

35:21
I left when I was 2122. So I'm 30 this year. Anyone good at math? Because I think I think

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it's just

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nice to get, you know, someone to backup my story that I wasn't shipping. It takes any

35:44
running joke that I always

35:47
pretended to do. It's always a giant. And so I was writing about like the importance of storytelling through voice and sharing stories.

35:58
How do you do

36:00
That in 2020, like these things like podcasting, and like, Molly Silva, who have had on the show before, she's got a podcast and it feels like it's a great platform to get people talking about their stories. What is it? What does it look like at the moment?

36:18
Yeah, I think you're totally right. You know, the modern world that we live in, we're especially going into COVID. We had to really adapt how we got our messages across and that was through social media as a big push, you know, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and then obviously, you've got podcasts as well. So there's definitely we've definitely got some modern modernization I guess you could say.

36:47
But um, yeah, so rapid fire stuff. Is that like it? I guess one of my questions is around the cliches that we fall into around what it looks like, you know, you think about

36:59
Aboriginals

37:00
You think about the, you know, in the sort of the red dirt or in sort of Greenland and all that sort of thing and being like connected to country and bank having, you know, fires and stuff like that. Is there? Is there a modern, in quotation marks culture to being Aboriginal? Or do you think of it? It's actually about going back to the original state of what it was like, day to day?

37:28
I don't know. I just, I think that that's a really hard question because we can't ever go back and fix everything. But we can connect to the land that we do have. And we need to make sure we protect the land that we do have and hold on to our sacred sites and what they're still is that hasn't been destroyed. So I think that's a really tricky question because yes, we live in a modern world.

38:00
And we have we've, we've had to adapt to the modern world. But we do still have our connections to the country and we still, you know, even Melbourne as a country that was that was a country for 100 people and when you look around, you can't see it as much as you would like. And I can't, I can only speak for myself, not for anybody else. But you know, we just don't have as much

38:27
in available like, and I don't think it's been put enough emphasis by our leaders in our council and really making sure that people can see that this is Aboriginal land. And what does that look like to you? Do you think?

38:47
I don't know.

38:50
Yeah, no, the

38:52
preservation of, of land. So you know, Melbourne is becoming built up and it's, you know,

39:00
second major city in Australia and and it's well that doesn't fit you look at hodel straight and you don't think like spiritual ride like that you thought it's gentle you say like, you know you say all these different things and you're like okay, even even I walking somewhere in a park or greenery can feel the difference than say somewhere that's, you know, got cars everywhere and things like that. So yeah, but is that is that a cliche or an oversimplification? I don't think it's necessarily a simplification or

39:38
Yeah, stereotype, but I do think that, as I said, you know, we, we have to, we've had to adapt to the modern world, but we still can have our connections and we can still go to the places that we feel grounded and that can look different for everybody.

39:57
You know, for me, it's just about being so

40:00
Surrounded by gum trees because where I'm from gum trees are very prominent, and that's my country, you know, gum trees and the river. If I need to go somewhere, I'm in the eastern suburbs, I'll probably go to the river, where there's trees and, and feel that energy around me if I can't get back home, back to SharePoint or back to my country where I grew up and where I feel like I felt most connected. And I guess yeah, it's very, probably very different for everyone. And that could be different for people who, from the stolen generations, you know, because they might feel connected to something in a different way. A country that's not theirs, but they feel connected, in a sense. So it's a really hard question. That's why I'm saying it's very complex.

40:52
Yeah, so individual like yesterday, like I think that that the hard bit is, it's like when you have a

41:00
Massive, complex thing. It's impossible to represent everything. It's like mean any, you know, being part of any group is it's like there's going to be people who are really traditionalists or that don't like so I guess like even say e commerce. Are there people within your community who it's like, I don't want to sell the art on online or do things like that, like, is that consideration? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Some people might not want to sell their art or want to hold that close. And that's fine. That's an individual thing. And that's a connection to their space and their their creation. It's Yeah, I'm only speaking from my experience.

41:49
And yeah, I guess I'm, yeah, wanting to share it as much as I can. But also I do have stories that go with them that I want people to realise and feel connected.

42:00
too as well.

42:02
Yeah, digital versus, you know, classic painting Canvas what's,

42:11
what is your preferred style only because I'm just thinking you can really sort of rub out on digital, I'll just be I'll just be erasing too much. Whereas you gotta you gotta commit when you're doing a canvas.

42:24
My preference would be acrylic on canvas. I love the physical feeling of actually painting and, and creating and, you know, as you said, You can't rub it out, you've got to roll with it.

42:38
I do like digital and and it's only been in the last four years that I've really taken digital on and ran with that I did digital in high school. So a while ago now. But yeah, when my son was born, I just didn't have the space to be able to paint like physically paint with Canvas and acrylic. So that

43:00
When I started to really dive into the digital world and still be able to use it as a creative outlet,

43:08
but in a different way, and then when he got older, he would try and grab my paints. And so digital was just easier. He now joins in with me as well. Like I've got one of my paintings up and I've named it Molly. That's my son's name.

43:25
And he helped me paint that one. So we did a bit of a collaboration together. So that was really special.

43:31
But yeah,

43:33
I love it. I love your business name is the blend of your two children, which I think is Yeah, it's clever. I gotta have another one to have a business lending the two. It's safe. I have another What am I gonna do? Oh,

43:50
I have a bit of a redirect or something don't don't do business structure. It's locked in the tax department. Now you as your business.

44:00
So what's the I feel like there's obviously a groundswell of change that's happening like I don't like even beyond social media, all that sort of stuff. I think people are. Like, it seems like a different time than any time before in regards to understanding these things. And people who haven't been speaking about these issues, and now speaking about them and know whether it's, instead of my bubble, but it feels like changes happening. What do you think? Is the the prompter or question for people who are wanting to see change? or wanting or realising that they've been part of a system that has, you know, being sort of negative towards a whole culture? What do you think are some of the things that we could be asking ourselves or just prompters to be thinking about?

44:51
I don't want to

44:54
be classic like, but I just think like it and I guess the thing is like, there's no

45:00
There's no right answer like there's on the your perspective. And that's what we're interested in is it's like, through everything that you've been through through the day to day life that you have through all your experiences. What are the actual personal things not speaking for a whole community but thinking, speaking from your personal experience some thoughts? What do you think some of those prompters

45:23
it would be a genuine so coming from the heart from someone who wants to really understand if they've grown up and gone to school and not had any of that education about our history in Australia, then it would, would need to be a genuine,

45:42
genuine want and a genuine feeling that they want to really understand what's happened to our country. I think it has to come from a genuine place. It can't just be the new thing that's trending

45:56
or anything like that. It really needs to be you

46:00
need to understand, you need to take it slow but need to understand. And

46:06
if someone doesn't want to talk, then maybe try a different method. So that's about reading books that's about watching documentaries. That's about understanding your local content first. So local Aboriginal people from where you live, and then branching out to national, and then really just understanding the language that you use.

46:31
For example, something that grates me is that people use lowercase a for Aboriginal and lowercase I for indigenous when it should be uppercase, because it's it's explicit it's explaining a group of people so for you know, Australian use a capital A, for Indian use a capital I, you know, all of those sort of things for countries use capitals, and it's the same for Aboriginal people.

46:58
And for me,

47:00
That would be you know, the news platforms also changing there

47:06
they have some sort of directory thing that they use when they're writing the journalism writing and apparently it should just be yesterday that I mean within there I can't remember what it's called but within their like

47:21
style guide yeah okay yeah yeah they saw guide they have indigenous with a lowercase I so in all of the media stuff you'll see indigenous with a lowercase I'll Aboriginal with a lowercase a. And I think even that, you know it's it's just the smallest thing but if you can just acknowledge that we are people and and that that lowercase comes from his history it's a historical thing. So is there is there a good place from a content perspective of like consuming stuff because I think that probably there's a lot more consuming and listening rather than even talking that needs to happen.

48:00
Where'd it Where do you find the good places to be able to? Where do you send people? If you'd like handball, it's like, Okay, you've asked too many questions. I just want to enjoy my muffin muffin break.

48:12
Where do you like? What do you tell? Where do you send people

48:17
really hard to?

48:19
It would have to depend on the context what people are wanting to know.

48:26
Like a system, for instance, like I think about like, Okay, what mainstream media is and thinking about, okay, tuning in to the project or whatever, and saying sort of a very white panel or saying, like, having a very specific viewpoint. I wonder, like, if we were to re if we would have completely shuffled the system around what we're consuming. It's like, oh, like, let's replace the footy show, with this show or this with that and then create our own version of mainstream is like, yeah, so not even an education people.

49:00
necessarily but just what we consider stuff that we watch yeah changing the system that's what we want to change that system to include people from diverse backgrounds and that includes a number of different things but um like an ITV would be one of the starting points I guess you could say um there's other places that you can look

49:24
there's a whole range of things I just yeah, I'm really I'm stuck

49:30
I could probably email you a whole bunch of stuff and then you could like give it to your

49:36
if that would work. Yeah, no, I think like I think it makes sense as well. Like I think that when you

49:44
unison around it and it's not really like it like it's a it's a hard question to answer and there is a lot I think that the other thing too is there is so much information that is out there like you just have to go on Instagram saying how many things people are saying

50:00
Sending and all of that sort of stuff. But I mean for you for what you're saying, Josh, like the mainstream if you watch Telly at night, which is channel 10, and on the way to work, you're listening to this radio station, that becomes the mainstream is that for you? And so, for people to even veer outside of their own mainstream, that's a guess what, I guess this is me, I guess, like part of it is like, okay, you can read like, white fragility, I think is the audio book I'm listening to at the moment you like you can listen to all these different things or consume these types of things. But then I feel like the secondary thing is beyond just education. And it's more just like changing what you perceive to be normal. And so it's actually like, having comedians or, you know, diverse people in that way as well. Which, like in combat, I think conversation like, forgive us for you know, we're clunky as hell at the start of the episode, but I think like, for me personally, the way I learn is through that clunky process, or miss stepping into

51:00
Some direction and then just thinking back on my own experience and saying, Okay, well that, you know, you're going to start to sort of adjust course. And that's and that is a part of the process and you see why people don't, because clunkiness can sometimes feel not great, but that's not a reason to not take the steps, right? Yeah, of course. And I think as, as I'm listening to you say that you have a genuine, genuine interest. So, genuine yearning to learn and want to understand the history and I think that's it, you need to just be genuine. You can't, like the clunkiness might happen and that's fine.

51:44
It's just take it slow. It's fine. It's you're taking a step somewhere in the right direction. And I think that's the best thing.

51:55
Allowing us to ask you annoying dumb questions.

52:01
But I've had plenty more

52:05
you're gonna have to you're gonna do a great pace about I feel after this just

52:10
all the tension and so once the end so your website people can buy work any any tips around buying

52:21
and like this is a very basic one indigenous Aboriginal they obviously get they seem to be used interchangeably.

52:29
Is there any sort of advice on that? So, obviously like we've referred to Aboriginal artists, all that sort of thing, when, when when should people say indigenous versus Aboriginal and those types of things and then any tips on buying indigenous artwork?

52:47
Say I would prefer people say Aboriginal. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of indigenous, but that's personal preference. So I would say First Nations or Aboriginal or

53:00
My mom's like, yada, yada, yada, Iran or Gilroy. And that's how I would identify.

53:08
So that was to answer your first question. But to answer the second question, it would be probably to do a bit of research on what the organisation

53:19
was in who was running the organisation. So trying to figure out and it's probably really challenging, but you could always ask another Aboriginal person, if you had a friend or colleague or anything like that, or even just Google. Trying Google, it's a bit hard, but making sure that the company you're buying from is owned and ran by Aboriginal people or they have like that would be the first and foremost owned and ran by an Aboriginal person. Second would be whether the artists were being paid for the artwork, and they're being acknowledged in the actual pieces that are being produced.

54:00
So if it was a non Aboriginal person running the organisation, which I would probably say go for the first but if it was a non Aboriginal person running the organisation, yeah, just making sure that those artists are getting paid properly and they're getting the recognition that they deserve and are entitled to as Aboriginal people and as the artist of that work. Yeah. So you buy direct you can buy from your website I saw you've got some some great prints and you got your hoodie on. Are you selling those hoodies? Yes, there we go. So this is what it

54:37
looks like I did the artwork on this. And yeah, so it all for the pre sale that I've just done. I'm donating some of the profits or 10% of the profits to change the record, which is really exciting. We made $750 for change the record so I'll be donating that straight to them.

54:58
They're an organisation that in

55:00
Invest in early intervention, prevention and diversion strategies in the criminal justice system.

55:08
They're in there, Australia's Sorry, I'm reading my notes. And they're Australia's only national Aboriginal led Justice Coalition of Aboriginal pink bodies and non Aboriginal allies. So they're a strength based organisation. And that was what I was, you know, wanting to find.

55:28
With a public health degree I I'm all about prevention.

55:32
So yeah, it was really important to me and my values, but um, I wanted to make sure that I was giving back for a queued. Thanks so much for being so generous with us today, Maddie, it's Yeah, I feel like as TJ said, We

55:48
such important conversations, and it's like the clunkiness is, is part of it all. appreciate you taking the time today. And if people want to get the artwork, it's

56:00
YALI creative if I just Google that it all comes up there. Yes. Why? ally? creative? Perfect. Yeah, so much for having me on. Awesome. It's a daily talk show. Hi at the daily talk. show.com is the email address. If you have any suggestions of who we should have on the show, let us know. Otherwise, we'll say tomorrow guys have a good one. See ya.