#811 – A Life Outside Of Work/
- August 4, 2020
We chat about uncertainty and having a badge of honour, having a life outside of work, being noisy about self-awareness and the collective experience.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
– Being an early adopter
– Uncertainty and the badge of honour
– An email from Emma
– A life outside of work
– Your work is you
– Rebrands and making unconscious thoughts conscious
– Being noisy about self-awareness
– Being enlightened and signalling
– Changing the world and the collective experience
Email us: firstname.lastname@example.org
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business, and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com
It's the daily Talk Show Episode 811. What's happening guys? What is going on? Jj you've got here nice Bay neon keep him warm.
I am. Can I just say, Yo, what was not a great week? Last week I was feeling down. I'm feeling good this week. So if anyone's feeling down, it can look up. Make it make yourself a coffee. Just fucking write it down. Read a book. You'll be all good. Yep.
Yeah, great. I mean, it was last week, very uncertain times. It I definitely felt that by the end of the week. It's like, wow, that was like, that was a week, wasn't it? But I
think for a lot of people, I think for a lot of people. I think that I was potentially getting ready or grieving what was about to come. Whereas I think of that for a lot of people. Maybe they're just realising Okay, what am I especially in Victoria. announcements were made. People are trying to work out. Can I work? Can I work? Is my home industry closed?
Yeah, I you know what I do? I did think that about you. I was like, maybe just slightly earlier in that process of feeling it because
early adopters, you know, if I get depression for everyone else was doing before I said this early adopter mental health early adopter. That's why I wanted to say OSI because because unless I can do it early, unless I can say I was one of the first people doing it. Yeah, I was one of the first year lacing the Fitbit, by the way, and I was very active in saying wasn't gonna go anywhere.
No, I mean, second lockdown. When we were back in the office, there was and you were on that high of yours. I think if there was no change, and we will kept on moving forward, I think it would have been, you know, probably continued. So what you're talking about is external changes affecting our internal state and so they No doubt that external changes to what's happening in Victoria are shifting people's internal states so and it's a funny one because usually you like, Don't let your external you know shift your internal too much because some stuff you can't control but there's just a reality. I mean, last night I was feeling sorry for me
what percentage what's your what's your What are you? What are you at the moment?
Oh yeah, I'm doing a strong 70 which is like I think that's good. I think if you were operating at a strong 70 most days, rather than going 110 one day if I can 30 the next. I'd rather be talking about my age today. I'm springtime. I even go Yeah, I haven't got it. Strong 70 but in a whole lot of uncertainty to use a strong 17
not just a 75
not not because 75 giving it too much. Strong 70 years just like it's just a story. It? Yeah, no, it's definitely just a 70 year old or
71. Maybe it's a 71%. And then a little bit more. Yeah. 270 I just don't understand how you can when you're when we're talking percentages. I'm uncomfortable with having strong versions. So like the idea that 170 is different to another seven years confuses me. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so what happened last night?
It's a it's the number but then it's your attitude towards that number. That's the only way you get to a strong 70 is if you're just optimistic about being at 70.
That's a Yeah, that's an 80 move on a 70. Feeling.
Yeah, true. But it's also I mean, I could be on the app. Low 70. Is you saying it's probably 60 by the end of the day, I could be on 40 by the end of the day, but I'm on 70 with the chance of being an 80 by the end of the day. This is, this is like borderline. I remember hearing borderline as a kid. Do you know what borderline How do you describe someone says are they borderline borderline main, borderline there at the border of something so the border, you know, mental health borderline could be I'm borderline Chuck. I mean, this is pretty dark borderline schizophrenia, I could imagine that being a phrase used. So you're, you're struggling severely, but you're not at the stage where it's falling into psychosis. It could be like I don't know, that's just a non educated explanation.
So I always thought of borderline because we're in school they would always say you're borderline failing, you know, certain subjects but I was scraping borderline actually meant that you're a slightly under at the moment but I'm just looking because that's what I would say it's like borderline is it was it's not good. But borderline was sort of Yeah, you tipping on the side of failing, but I'm just actually looking up at it says the adjective borderline, only just acceptable in quality. Or as belonging to category. References may be requested in borderline cases. Yeah, so I'm not so I don't think that it's what the teachers were saying.
And now who's schooling them? Yeah. Dr. Jansen on these podcasts
now simply that
that sort of early adopter of your feeling so last night for me what was I feeling it was uncertainty with Bodie, like I get to take Bodhi to daycare today and I say to the teachers, what's going on? When is it? Is it closing Wednesday? And Thursday? And that actually makes sense,
based on they're saying what? everything's changing 11:59pm on Wednesday,
Wednesday, which Yeah, I mean, this is I was saying to you yesterday before they made the announcements how people would love to be first to have the information, whether it be on Facebook, Instagram, or YouTube. news outlets won't have any any way to distribute information. But if you
get asked if you get a dance out first of the stage four, that's some serious numbers you can beginning
but it is some badge of like I knew at first I heard from blah blah blah first, which it's it's all that can do is bring confusion because it might not be it's like unconfirmed reports. It's an unconfirmed report, which means there's going to be a confirmed report that's released. It's so it's so frustrating because that I mean, that just adds to the the confusion when you hearing all these different things.
Do you think that also one thing that I've been thinking about even talking to my parents last night, just in general, when I'm speaking to people, there's a sense that most people when they get the news, they're always trying to find the out or it's like the loophole Or why doesn't why, based on like, I couldn't believe how many people because my mom was saying, I, you know, Josh, you and I, we've always been good with rules. You know, we stick to the rules, and she was sort of applauding me for not leaving the house, you know, in two weeks or whatever or going out. Yeah. But don't you get that sense that it seems like we are promoting the wrong thing in leadership, where you can see the temptation or the badge of honour around how people are weaselling their way to still be able to do their business? Oh, yeah.
I mean, so even another thought is, this is our second severe lockdown in Victorian some people push through the first and so then there could be a thinking of where we push through the first which meant we could keep operating and make money, which means we can survive the second being forced to lock down and so then the badge of honour is we we did the wrong thing at the start, or we we didn't listen to the rules. To start with, and so then it gets to this point like, well, if we didn't, if we listened to the rules Last time, we wouldn't be able to make it through this time. And so that that's like, another school of thinking. But
But I guess a part of it is everyone's context is different for us. It's like, we don't have ridiculous expenses. We have a lease, we have a couple of employees, all that sort of thing. And so, but if you the job keeper, the things that have come out from the government, it gets us to at least a baseline where we're not like haemorrhaging cash. And then so it means that if we took off six weeks, so we weren't doing client stuff, then we would be in a similar position than what we are today. Whereas I guess, for some people, if they're in the stage of, you know, a million plus a year revenue or you Know that sort of six digit every single month from a revenue perspective and you've got a bunch of other things moving potentially. And also you have like, we we rent, we don't have crazy. We don't have crazy lifestyles that we need to uphold. But I guess for some people, if you are if you have a company and you're expecting to take some executive, you know, executive salary every single month, and all of a sudden now, you can't do that. I guess that's where the pain is for people as well.
Yeah. And that's where the mental health crises crisis comes into play. It's like it is the people that were flying that will probably had a strong 90 strong 90 of feeling like a low 30 and so then that's why do you think that is? No, no, no, if you had the rug pulled out from under you corporate you corporate money, if you're
winning the game, if you're winning the system the system is being fucked. And so anyone that was really billing your people like Jeff Bezos, who it's like they're making paper cash
paisa Right. I mean, he's gone. We got a lovely email from gronk Emma, who not not Emma from Queensland, another woman. She said I just finished listening to what eBay 10 and she said you have really inspired me JJ have called a bunch of her. She's called a bunch of a noisy people on Facebook and Instagram, that are not helping her mental health at the moment, as well as setting up screentime locks on my phone so I can't be distracted by other noise during the day. My youngest has just started school and instead of embracing this time, that I now have and devoting time to figuring out what the next step is, which is a minefield in itself as I've just turned 40 and feels like a significantly important decision. I am wasting the days on social media and I hate myself For so Kelly's Dan locks are in place. And I'm now off to Bunnings to get some stuff for projects around the home that I wanted to do for ages. So thank you, Josh for the inspiration. And that, that came off the back of you sort of identifying that Yeah, you probably need a sort of, you know, pull back a bit. It's simply a
day Yeah. 20 hours a day on the phone, but it's just, um, I reckon it part of it is having really low expectations. I think I've got such high expectations of everything, myself, everyone around me. And like, so what about
me feel just where does that come from? Like, I know it's a natural reaction or state for you. What is it? If you would have said a dive deep? I think that I
think that part of it is because I wasn't I think that there's a few things like I was wasn't great at school, but I was very good at all the other stuff the extracurricular activities, and so I think from the age of probably eight or nine teachers would say, ah, Josh is going to be somewhere like our member. My mum only actually again I gotta face This is right I got a Facebook message about four years ago. I had given my grade three teacher grade three or grade four teacher, my signature and I like I signed it and I wrote wrote a note or whatever I said, I you know, be famous one day hold on to this. Anyway. My mom had was at the shops and saw this teacher that she hadn't seen 15 years or whatever, and she pulled out of her wallet. The signature that I gave her which is fucking revealing, which is ridiculous, and then she should actually That would have been probably, like when I was just finishing 12 or whatever. And then just recent like probably three or four years ago, she Facebook messaged me, like, still got it. And so I think there, which is so nice, but I think something easy. I was insane all of that I was a shit student, as I said I was like borderline with like schoolwork. But there was that sense that I was very focused on specific things. And so I think that that got applauded, that was a big thing. And so for me now, I think that so much of what I've done has been against the system, more gut instinct, that sometimes the gut instinct is in the same pot as anxiety or whatever. And so you're spending so much time thinking, fuck I need to be doing this right now. Or even I think with all the old I was blogging, you in a big way sort of 2010 2011 and then I think about if I stuck to that what it would have done and so all of these learnings have then brought me to this point where it's like I know that we just need to keep going keep going keep going. I know that that can be a bit
exhausting so is it said there's proving people right or proving people wrong a lot of people are out to prove people wrong because they might have been told that you weren't more in amount to something. I know like for me teachers were very they weren't supportive of me I was probably a little piece of shit so you empty but I definitely had that noise of our up time is something like which is the most non productive It doesn't mean anything at that point. And if anything, the kids that are probably told you can be famous when you're older end up on bachelor in paradise or something like that, because they just fucking outrageous. Because there's no skill involved in just what's fine. There's no skill involved in fame if that's just what you just famous That's famous for a skill. Yeah, it doesn't mean you know there's it's nothing Ivan malice. Oh, yes. And so I reckon I've definitely had the not the prove you're wrong but like, you know if you doubted me, and I'm gonna put in the effort, but it has definitely for me it's not my driving force. I'm more apt to to prove myself right on the things I think I can do. And so then I transfixed on the things I think I can do and get good at them. And then I'm not there's the contentedness that isn't relying on outside noise but I think early day driving force proving people wrong is somewhat powerful to get started, but you soon realise that it's not it's not the fuel it's not the fuel that keeps the engine burning, you know, the engine firing for a long time.
Well, I think that even I look at the you know, people say you're not your work and don't be defined by your work. I think that if I even Look back to school days, everything was associated to me making videos. And so the way that I my friendship group was based on who will be in videos and yeah and so I think that that was such a defining thing constantly. That Yeah, I think that I definitely have a have a strong connection with my work. And potentially I think that I'm trying to move away I don't know what that looks like, but trying to have an identity outside of being a podcast or video or media or
creation. I mean, what is the what is beyond the work so if we just to dive into your not your work, which a lot of people and and I think the trap is, if someone's working 70 hours a week for a corporate business the life is consumed by They work, which could be the result, feeling like your work is your life because it's taking up a hyper percentage of your time. And so, but then it's like so for you, so let's just go for creatives at the moment, creatives that live and breathe, what they do, they've worked out how to do is find something that they are passionate about, that they can sit for five hours and feel like it's one hour, feel like it's 30 minutes. How do you not make it your work? And what is? If it isn't your work? What is that? Just give me that? What is what is not your work? If it's not your what is
what are you? Well, so I think that the UI your work is a common narrative, which within society and so I think that the natural thing is that people would find the other modes. And so for instance, being a family man is another societal mould or a narrative that you could play out. So I think that the common thing would To be like, if you're not your work, you or your family. And so for brain I not wanting to have kids, and being pretty sort of like, I think that I'm pretty pedantic on not wanting to do whatever the system's telling me to do or just thinking about, like, why why do I need to do that? Like, what's the point of this? And so, for me, it's understanding the Curiosity base. So it's like, okay, as a person, I'm very curious. I like learning different things. I think that for a lot of people, it's, they go into like exercise or whatever, they go into f 45. Or they go to CrossFit or they do that sort of thing. There's, there's only I feel like a few moulds. And what I'm wary of is not falling into the one dimensional mould that's affected. To me, so by me saying, Okay, I'm not going to do this, or and I'm not going to make my whole life my work. I'm very wary of the natural sort of reaction to then look at the other common moulds, which doesn't actually fix the problem. Does that make sense?
Yeah, no, definitely. And I then think you could probably hone in on the productive nature or the resistance to not wanting to you know, the kids thing. It's like everyone has kids. I don't want to have kids. If you look at the, the objection or the resistance to those things, why do you think they come up? Is it a Do you think you have forced yourself to have that feeling around those things? And that resistance or is it naturally like because there's people out there that probably don't have that same feeling of I push back on status quo, I push back on things and they just feel it, but it doesn't. It's no energy out of them because they like, Yeah, no, no.
And so what you're, what you're trying to define is what what is actually if you're pushing back on something, you are not in control, necessarily you if you are the pushback guy, you want to get us still using the external moulds to shape who you are. Because it's like,
Does that make sense? I think,
yeah, I think pushback requires an energy for you not to like so I think about what people who don't like tomatoes haven't really decided that they don't like tomatoes, they just don't like them. How do we decide we don't decide or any of this stuff like it is? There is an an clean nature to the things we do and don't like? And so what I'm saying is, is it is it a conscious decision on your behalf to not like these things which requires an energy and you don't know if you do that you I actually like them.
Well, I think that it's like a store, like what are the stories that we're all telling? I think that that's the challenging bit right now is because a lot of the stories that we've told ourselves about why we do what we do and who we are is based on a system, which for a number of reasons has been shifted dramatically across the world. So, for me, for me, it comes down to so I'm not like a Yeah, so I think about like, so using the wedding, getting married, type of thing. So deconstructing that, I believe in commitment, I believe in like, I think there's there's value in saying hi, like we're together forever, that type of thing. there's value in that. The bit that I have sort of pushed back on is The, the, the wasting of, of money through doing the big weddings or inviting a bunch of people to do that. And then I think that the the common thing is people will then turn to another mode. And so they'll say, Oh, you could have lope. Or you could do this or you could do that. And so you need to then like, okay, so we need to create a trip to do this thing or, and so, yeah, what am I, what am I trying to say? or What am I thinking? I think it's like, I think that it's beyond the pushback bit for me, and it's very much being in tune with, I think that I'm always looking ahead. So I'm looking at like, Okay, what is this? And I also feel like, I put a lot of weight on to the decisions I make. And so I think about if we were to have a kid, watch what sort of Dad I would want to be. And so I think that it's And, and I don't think that I could give it everything. Like, I think that I'm doing too many other things. And I'm like, I have to do so much other work to work that out and I'm not there. So I think that sometimes it's like, okay, people will say, oh, you're never ready to have a kid. You just have to do it and you'll figure it out. And I understand that. But I think that I'm, I probably look at it at a more sort of simple level of like, I don't imagine it being a thing. I don't sort of like look around and say, oh, man, I wish I had that. Because I can have that, like, the connection I can have through my friends kids or nieces and nephews and stuff like that. And like I get the beat. The value that I think potentially people are talking about through those interactions.
Yeah, I guess there's pushback, that he's coming from place of natural feelings towards something so kids off marriage Then I guess I was looking at the areas of pushback that might require a level of energy that may not actually be pushed back. You're pushing is like,
do you have any example of why you've seen off me?
Oh, no, I haven't seen it. It's more just I and I'm wondering if pushback filters into other areas of life that ends up being energy served, and you might not necessarily have pushback on that area, but you're giving it pushback. Because it it's a definitely so.
Yeah. So I think what you're probably describing is, if you have pushback across systems, or groupthink or these these or these, like, you're triggered by that, then I think there is yet there's natural pushback on that. But I think that that's a that's a filter set. That's a I think that becomes like a belief system at that point. So it's a belief system that I think for me It's like talking about politics or stuff like that, like I've just never been able to enter into it. I think that there are a lot of people who will say everything's political, get political, do all these types of things. But I think that I've become more and more sceptical but I'm just like, it's not about inaction. I'm not talking about inaction and not doing anything. But I think like picking sides and doing all of that sort of stuff, rather than looking at it from afar and thinking about it in sort of a more holistic way. That's what I'm interested in rather than treating it like it's a 40 Yang. Hmm,
I wonder if work was the easy life. And I mean, it's, it's an interesting one because you're working on yourself in your work. And so even that, saying of you aren't your work. I just wonder how that fits in. For some people that embody their work,
so what about, what about you aren't your work but your work as you like So? So yeah, the what we're doing from the podcast perspective, you are getting a piece of me on here. But that's not my identity I come in to that. It's a moment in time I'm giving myself but then I don't let the platform the stickiness of what we're doing the platform the bit that sticks to your ego or whatever it is. Trying to, to retain that I think, potentially.
Yeah, I mean, that's art. I think people, like, if you look at painters, their work is an expression of them. So are they they work? Their work is a reflection of them as an individual. And so, yeah, it's
Yeah. And I think that there is a Everyone's got a slightly different viewpoint everyone's got like a based on a different experience that they've had. And so I think I reckon in fact in lockdown, I'm getting reflux. Have you noticed that a little bit more of that maybe it's the coffee which is like eating, eating laying down a lot reckon that that's probably I reckon that's the first thing you don't really yeah. You don't need reflux medication you need to actually just get out of bed when you're going to have breakfast. That's probably this
Yeah, but yeah, it's interesting. I think. I'm also very like you and I have spoken about this. On the phone where, you know, I've had a lot of personal rebrands I've done a lot of made a lot of announcements. I've been the TI I've been the baseball guy has been the walking guy, the walking guy. There's a lot of guys that I've been And to be honest, like I was even thinking about, like the drinking culture stuff. I was like really digging into like, why do I like, what am I doing? Like, why am I saying that? To me? It's like being a bit facetious. So I'm trying to be an agitator, or like I understand that like drinking alcohol and all of that sort of thing is there's a lot of like destructive elements to it. But I feel like when you're in a footy club, or you're in any environment where there's a drinking culture, no one sets out and says in the middle of the room, let's create a drinking culture. And so I think that funny bit so I think that part of it is, so it was perfect, like Ian reaching out and being like, Josh, be careful what you wish for a drinking culture. Like, that's part of my point where it's like, if before we go down these routes, if we're actually to call them out and not be unconscious, To them, and just say, Oh, this is what we're doing, would we look at them completely different? So I didn't have really any intention of creating a drinking culture. But I saw that that's in turn what we're doing. And by almost saying it and, and, and making it a thing it's the your consciousness falls in maybe I don't know, I just I thought that that was interesting cuz I was like, Ah, it was it was a bit of stick but it's also like it's something that then at its core if you think about what drinking culture is, and that's this unconscious thing it's like not listening to yourself. If you were to say, Oh, come on guys, let's let's all be alcoholic. So let's all do this thing or Let's all do that. Like Let's all say like, and like even the whole thing around like food like I let some Let's order an entire cake. Like, like talking about it in the actual extreme version of it. conscious state i think that
he's conscious. I think that's the I think there's probably a version like of what is be conscious so there's awareness but then there's awareness of the awareness and so if your awareness is I'm doing something hyperbolic to point out the the stupidity or the absurdity of something then getting lost it definitely that's a whole so that's where I those go over my head when you say shit like the drinking culture thing I hadn't even really you know, I just gone over my head because I was in regards to like clear shipping stupid eBay stupid Yeah, it's like clearly it's a fucking say stick on his dick. Yeah, you know, it's it's obviously stick at that point. And so,
the why so what's the because I think that the, especially when I was a kid, what would get me into trouble is I would think about things. If this happened. In a movie this would be very funny. So do things like I tied a rope so my my brother was doing a bike race and he was saying how quickly he could ride around the street but the finish line there was a rope across the finish line but I actually tied it up at either end of the train so you basically close like close hang hung himself like and so he ended up with like a massive like for me fucking was capitated is that what's called nearly lost his head. He didn't. It's a risk of, you know, begging my brother up anyway, he ended up with like a welt on his neck and it was like I was fucked up. But my thing was that like, Yeah, but in my mind. I was like, How funny would it be if this happened, right? Like if if you fuck it like, it's like when I played basketball as a kid. And we had like an elderly lady who was out coach and we were sitting on the floor and she tripped over us and we were just in hysterics we thought was the funniest thing ever and like everyone's fucking like what are you doing and like picking her up and all that stuff like so there was that thing around this would be funny in a movie Am I a psychopath? I guess
I mean I mean you're referencing ship from childhood in your prefrontal cortex is not fucking developed your your
self I was fucking i was i was a smart fuck from the age of two.
I was I mean you just dumb you don't have you don't have you. Like the part of your brain that recognises danger and feels like it's not developed like you don't get the consequences and so you referencing childhood and then jumping from 30 year old Josh to fucking 12 year old Josh. Huge difference and you definitely don't do shit like that. You're but as you said an agitator, you you're throwing things out to the ether with maybe a bit More thought than most. And so
but i thought was funny. Like when I when I was a kid everything I did I thought like I was doing anything for a laugh.
Yeah, yeah, there's still comedians that do that. Anything for a laugh is a lot of I mean, I still do I think you do it around friends as well put yourself out there. It's Yeah, I mean it's so learning. I don't know, now when we type this, but it's good to just dissect your thinking a bit. I've been listening to a lot of meditation stuff around the awareness, and then what's beyond awareness. So there's a being aware of awareness. And so we can feel like we're in reference to this, this pace that we're saying, you know, there's a lot of people that think they're self aware. And this was the example it's like, people who are noisy about how self aware they are, you know, essentially, is a new unawareness, because yeah, And so then it's like, what's the Where is it? That's why we'll
never say that we're fucking we do it like, that's the trope of podcasting. It's like, yes, the difference is that we're authentic. What is what does that mean? What is it? Like what is authenticity? Like we are performing we are like, I don't even Yeah, it's interesting. Go on. That was interesting.
Yeah. So if you land that I am so self aware. And I can recognise all these things in the moment. But then that becomes its own version of lacking awareness because it doesn't stop self awareness never stops, it's aware of the aware and then you're sitting back from it. Like in so deep meditation practice takes you those layers back where it's Yeah, I mean, it goes very fucking.
So is that virtue signalling, then?
Yeah, well, that's what this that's what this teacher I should send you to I think you'd really like the explanation. He's a a, not a psychologist a what's the one that can prescribe medication psychiatry psychiatrist who is also an ordeal? Yeah, yeah. But yeah, that sort of multi layered and so the virtual incomes at the point of someone outwardly saying I'm so self aware, but it's like they're also to some degree missing the point of self awareness. But that's what I
that's what I think even when you spoke a few weeks ago of the guy who was refusing to wear masks, and he was like a fucking would you call him like a
Like, it was someone on Facebook and it was like arnaiz like a
No, no, he's like, Yeah, what do you call it a yogi. He's a meditation
teacher. And so the thing is that it's like so yeah, what does it take to be a yogi or what and so if he's, if he is asked Actively communicating all of this sort of stuff. It's like, it's not like I think that there's this sense that I you become this thing. And you are in invincible to the human experience or the reality of being emotionally driven or being driven based on you know, like if you're if you're someone who's come from like a well off family or an environment or whatever, he's probably not used to being told what to do. And so the uncomfortable feeling that he's feeling has nothing to do with government control and a lot. So thing is, it's like, he's been able to go to Byron whenever he wants, so do whatever the fuck, you know, like that hasn't like he's had physical friction in his life and what he's experiencing for the first time is a bit of friction. And when he feels that he thinks that all of his fucking life is under attack, where it's just like, now might you just this is the first time you're actually having to To do something you don't want to do.
Yeah, I don't
know, I know I agree and a bit like think about as a kid, you move away. I hated being told what to do. I hated school for that reason, I didn't want you. I didn't wanna have to learn something I didn't want to fucking learn. And you realise as you grow up that, that saying, I don't want to learn what I don't want to learn is the dumbest thing ever. Because sometimes, you want to learn shit that you don't want to learn, but it's necessary to learn. And so the shift in the mind state towards these kind of things has to change at some point. And so yeah, I mean, it's it's a, it's a where, I mean, even the fact that we're having these conversations The moment I think he's because of the time that we're in, like, the last week, we've been sort of going a little deeper on just like a few layers back from what we normally do, because it's what we're all feeling.
And so what we're all if we can't rely on other people's emotional states or for that person to get awareness or to, to reframe, what can we do? What do you think we can do?
The only thing we can do is work out how we're dealing with these people at a personal level. And so I can't I can't change someone's actions, but I can work on my reaction to their actions, my anger, or you know, like, just at least observing that fuck this energy in my body is anger, what's going on here and then and then see where that takes you? I think I think it's was so reactive. And so if we can just observe what the reaction is, at a moment, it's like a good start, because there's layers beyond that. But it's meditation. This is like the people I'm talking about literally talking about exactly this at the moment in my in my courses.
Do you think that part of it could be that being frustrated around people's perspective? Or what they're doing? Or what like, that is a clear piece of work that you need to do as an individual to be detached from other people's actions? Or do you think that they should be like, so talking about a selfish person? So I guess it's hard because there's also injustice. And so you can't just have if I was like, don't worry about anyone else, only worry about your state and how you're responding to it. There is a level of privilege I can't think of a better word to describe it to be able to say, I'm not going to worry about and say, people that are being persecuted in Iran or the big global issues or I can't like, I'm not a fucking scientist, I'm not going to enter into the climate change stuff. But I think that the hard bit is as it's like there is a line. You can't like, if I say like, there really is a sense of young people being really frustrated and angry and all this sort of thing, and it feels like it's because they're being told that they can change the world, everything that that is wrong, they can change. And so but I don't know what the the spectrum is, because isn't it is that ego in so in one way, it's like a selflessness of like, we need to change the world. We need to do all this. But then there's also an extreme level of ego to think of that you as an individual can change or impact all of these systems that have been happening for centuries.
Yeah, I mean, it's a big problem come out and try and tackle individually. But I mean, if the world was filled with air quotes, enlightened humans 10% more than what we are. I think it would contribute to some of these issues that people are coming out with anger and and
does it does enlightenment actually lead to change?
Well, it leads to internal change. I think it is. I think it definitely does like the version of it. The data does lead to internal change, and we're going to change this world by changing the people individually changing. Because then you still got psychopaths, if you just saying you can't do that there's still a psychopath that's going to do it.
Can an enlightened person not use the recycling bin?
I think so. I think so. I think when Not talking about enlightened to the point of living in the cave in India that there's a version of understanding the world that we are all living in, and how it functions.
So then what's the spectrum? That's why I'm not confused, like does an enlightened person use a car? Does an enlightened person like I don't know, does an enlightened person eating me maybe like personally
throwing throwing it it's more dislike snot even said I was gonna say self awareness but just leaving introspectively at a at a higher percentage like dialling that up.
And so yeah, I just wanted to just have it have
a good result. Yeah,
I mean, you've got to go but I there's something interesting around the IKEA people. It's like, I don't own a car. Because like I'm looking after the environment. But they're all of their Instagram posts. They're on a plane and so He's sort of you wonder, it's like no, the reason, you know, that's because, you
know, that's virtue signalling, like virtue that if you're doing one thing, and then you're doing another, like you're clearly trying to virtue over here,
but I think that Yeah, but But the thing is, there isn't clear, like, everything's constantly changing. So if we think about 15 years ago, what was on our radar as individuals around what to do, like look at even things like Australia Day, and how much of that has, like, how much we've evolved to understand that like, it's not on and it's like, it's disrespectful and it represents all of this pain. And so there's just so many social issues. That then yeah, I think the enlightened thing is very tricky, and I'm extremely sceptical of anyone that sort of Is that they possess that or they've experienced that or
no, I think, yeah. Okay, so the enlightened might be the word that paints the perfect person like, which isn't reality. So what's your definition of enlightened? No. So I don't think there's necessarily enlightened humans, there's people that are constantly working on. It's self discovery. It's understanding of where you fit in the world, and what and how, as an individual, you're interpreting and dealing with the input. And so, at that point, it's like, it's, it's your constant, you're aiming for the fucking star and you're trying to move towards it. It's like, it's like the person that realises they have been consumed by their thoughts. And now they're They have an awareness of fuck I'm thinking about this. And I'm getting trapped in that thinking constantly. And now I'm thinking about my thinking, like that step for that, because there is a huge percentage of people that are just eaten by their thoughts. And they've never thought that, hey, maybe I'm thinking this and, and getting a bit of a different perspective on the internal dialogue like that is a start in the right direction, I think. Done. So. They're not saying it's the end game. It's the start of a new game. Because once you realise that you have been trapped in your thoughts, and now you realise that there is a another perspective on it. You can't go back to the old perspective. You can't, you can't stop thinking about how you've been thinking. Like it's constant and so, but then you can get stuck in that. So there's another step of moving towards something moving.
And so, like, do you think that there's too like, I feel like there's too contrasting ideas or perspectives that are both potentially true, which is change yourself and change the world. But then there's the other side of it, which is we're all having a collective experience. And so if we all work as individuals to try and work on ourselves, we're not necessarily tapping into the the global perspective or the the, like joint experience that we're all having.
I you know, I'm I like to be black and white, but I don't think it is black and white. I don't think there is choose yourself or choose the world. I think there's the collective experience is only we only calculate the collective experience at an individual level. There is the collective experience that's a fire happens. But then it's how is everyone that's attached to the fire, interpreting that collective experience, it's going to be different for everybody. And so that's how the change will change yourself, change the world, it doesn't mean change the fucking world doesn't mean stop climate change. It means how are you interpreting or coping with or experiencing the collective thing that's happening. And that is the that's the big, I mean, that's the relief of pain that could come from it. It could be a realisation. There's many versions of what will come from changing your internal self. And so, but I think that I think people that are working on themselves in that way, they're going to have a better version
of what what the
collective experiences is how it's affecting them. But it's also so personal
to because you don't know yourself and you're like, it means different things to different People a bit like, yeah, depending on your spiritual beliefs, depending like there's so many different elements. It's interesting just because you see that a lot of these things, a lot of change at the moment is based on shame on anger. And so I'm sort of moving away from unlike I'm not going to enter like, I don't know if this is moving towards a more virtuous position, or head in the sand position, which is I'm choosing not to flare up or to enter into the noise. And so there's, there's a bunch of people who say that if you are not entering into it, if you're not in the debate, if you're not doing these things, then you're complicit to all of this other stuff that's happening. You're part of the problem. And so I don't know like, I feel like there's two conflicting ideas because I'd be fucking real happy. Just to chill out and not worry about stuff. You know, I don't know. But
then but then that doesn't change it, like you still have interactions with people. And so if you look at time is finite and interactions as finite, every, every interaction you have with somebody, one after the other is getting closer to your last interaction that you are going to have with an individual. And so
so what's that version, then?
There's no infinite version. There is no infinite version of interactions that we're gonna have. They're only getting less and so the My point being is, how do we treat people? How are we going to what tastes are we living in people's mouths, what's our interactions and so all it is is a perspective on your interaction with an individual is getting less and less based on it not being an infinite life inside. How can we just fucking be better or give it a it's, it's the perspective shift in the moment. It's like, what is the shitty with Bodie? When I get shitty with Bodhi? I know I'm gonna, if I, I know that he's getting old, he won't be three. Next year he'll be full. And so that I'm gonna have less interactions at the moment. It's just
the doc view. And then so spirituality had attentionally reframes that into it's not a finite experience, this thing continues on all the like it. You can see how through the perspective of we have a finite life interactions or that sort of thing. It becomes very much like systems process driven or ticking boxes or leaderboards, or where do I sit where how much money is in my bank. It's an inch. I mean, I feel Like we've asked a lot of questions, and if you've got any thoughts Hi, Ellie talks about calm. If there's any sort of things that we should be reading, I've been listening to read listening to radical acceptance by Tara Brock. It's great.
There's a guy named lock Kelly ello ch. Ty Dolla y la Kelly, what's his Who? He's a, he's the psychiatrist, that is also a meditation teacher. And he. Yeah, it gets he gets real deep, real deep on that awareness stuff, the awareness of the awareness and, and it's Yeah, I just love love listening to him. He's so good. He's so good, you know, challenge on him.
Alright, everyone, it's the daily talk show. Enjoy your day. Stay safe, and we'll see you tomorrow. Have a good one.
Love you guys.