- December 4, 2019
Anna Mackenzie and Caitlin Judd from Lady-Brains and the Lady-Land podcast join us on the show today!
Anna and Caitlin have built an incredible community and global network for entrepreneurial women, facilitating connections, and helping educate and inspire people to do amazing things.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
– Landing on the idea for Lady-brains
– Misconceptions about taking the leap
– Figuring out the most sensible thing to pursue
– Plan B & compromise
– Building a global community
– Getting perspective
– Being the face of the brand
– Content and paywalls
– Thinking big
Email us: firstname.lastname@example.org
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business, and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
It's the daily Talk Show Episode 536 special guests on the show Anna Mackenzie and Caitlin job also known as Kate Judd.
Oh, to be determined, Mr. Chris.
And so you have lady brains and Lady land Ladyland being the podcast.
We do. Later, Brian's been in the business. We were just having a conversation before we went. There is what what is the difference? podcast, but
Yeah, great question. Um, thanks.
This morning on radio. Someone asked a great question. What they determined is a great question, but it's just time to search.
Yeah, well, yeah, so lady brands is the business. So we're a club for entrepreneurial women in Melbourne, Sydney, New York. Ladyland is the pod cost of the business. And really we have created a bit of a monster we probably should have called the podcast lady brands. But the reason we did it simply was because there was already a show in America that was like three Texan women chatting about nothing called the lady brands podcast show.
I think that's a good like, it's good to make sure make sure that you are the only one that you see podcasts that come out. And there's already one that yes, yeah, knowing how to
do now. Eddie's hot. Yeah, well, there is no another Ladyland. So
we went out with Lady land and then someone came out with a light lamp.
How much have you looked into exactly what the dress they're looking funny there or
they also in Texas, so I don't know what that's
going on over there. Next Door wrap tell you that. Next and so you you've you've done a bunch of interviews recently in New York, was that a planned trip where you were just going there or if you're Content business rather.
Uh, yeah, no, not quiet. I had a wedding to attend. And then we somehow attended interpretive a little cheeky business trip.
Yeah, yeah. Well, the wedding to attend and then I decided, oh, I'll quit my job.
quit my job. And then we went to New York for a month. We landed a few awesome interviews like CJ and Jay who was amazing, so good. Um, and then yeah, we just kind of gallivanting around, went out to the Hamptons, went upstate recorded a whole bunch of content and met a whole bunch of people, and then came home, which was awesome. There's nothing more liberating than quitting your job and then going on this sort of unique experience and feeling like it's new life. And then yeah, step back into reality. Well, yes, yes.
I think it's just even just stepping back into your normal awful what you call life back home. Yeah. Leaving your job where were you before? How's it Mecca? Okay. Yeah. And so the venture, you know, going into any venture business partners What was that relationship? Was it a friendship? Or was it a business purely sort of business first, and then you became besties?
Yeah. So Anna and I, we went to school together. So we've known each other for a very long time. What we're 12 Yeah. So yeah, it started out as a friendship and, and, you know, we've had a really strong friendship over the years, we obviously went our separate ways to, you know, go and pursue other interests and work in different places. And then came back together. And we always wanted to start a business together. Like that was just kind of the dream, you know, and it never kind of worked up until
up until fit. Well, we had many ideas, many failed business ideas, like, I think the funniest one that I always like, refer back to his way with 21. And we were actually sitting in a restaurant in Victoria Street, and I'm like, oh my god. There's a gap in the market for a divorcee dating app.
Like to avoid a divorce. dating websites. So it was like it was the dating but also like, where can you find like a babysitter? If you have kids? Where can you like it was a whole resource hub for divorces, right? We're 20 we weren't even probably even 21 years old.
We should check. We've still got the domain name never too late.com Yeah. Second round offers.
So much money.
Got kids.com you've got kids. If you date a great law, check the facts around Go Daddy's probably the
got kids.com. So it's like the awkward conversation as a single person. Not that I'm pointing to myself not single. Imagine the anxieties around. I've got kids and I want to die. And so how do you like dating a 22 year old on Tinder? Like, do they want to be dating someone who has kids, there's no such as leading with it. You bring your kids it could be
a family vacation.
was one of the ones that work. Yeah.
Did you know that didn't work? Well.
We while we were we didn't really understand the target customer because we were 21 and single time. We patched the domain name I think we did a bit of research and then we gave up and went on to the next one. So the next one was like a bike sharing
which has been really successful in Melbourne.
Well Tommy did the bike fishing video that went viral. Yeah, it was a fish the mountain fish
Yeah, I think I'm responsible for the demise in Melbourne. Okay.
He's had on their lives here does he was sliding into the DMC anytime there's sort of a share type thing. He's like, Hey, I'm the guy. I'm sort of available.
But sharing you sharing you bark is like you're not using it. Who else can use it? Right?
Yes. Yeah, that makes sense.
But I feel like I've got a bike. That would be I'm not in a position. I don't want to sell the bike. You want to rent it out? Yeah.
And so that would be that would be useful side note, I read an article about a really interesting business that has just come to Australia which like has raised lots of money in the US, right? Airbnb for pools. That's interesting.
Borrow somebody's poor for the day,
right? Yeah, he paid daily. Right. And it depends on how like, whether it's a mansion type pool or just a normal pool. Right and you can push it.
Oh, that's great. You can afford a pool Sure, yeah.
themselves. That's true.
Yeah, live the lifestyle. Maybe you need to rent it out.
You just gotta have you push your dead. Why?
When you hit because I had to pull when I was a kid and it was you already had your friends asking. Remember p would rock up like Hi Hey, got in the head. That fucking 10
Yeah, hundred percent right. My man did a video Ryan john. He went around found on Google, like where the pools were abandoned asked in summers like can I can I jump in the pool? asked enough people and got one.
That's how these guys done in the business. He went on Google Earth and you searched all the pools in the area. I mean, it's Prisma.
Yeah, well, I mean, an app idea that I had the other day, we were at the airport and I have status. Tommy doesn't whatever, no big deal. I'm about to lose it anyway.
I'm still the loser. It's hot. It's actually harder to get rid of it. When you pay for a pull on your credit card. It usually puts you into status. And so I could get Mr. 97 into the lounge. Yeah, but we with gold you only get one extra person. And so what we're going to do with Tommy and just it just so happens I was getting ready to Just hustle and say hi, keep this in mind. We're wearing the daily talk show hoodies a part of a crew. And we've done that at Sydney Airport. And it's been successful, right? Yeah, International. International is hotter because it was Emirates or whatever. It was like a co chair, whatever. Tommy then white out the front and just starts talking to a guy who's lining up to go into the lounge. I was it was perfect timing. I sort of sat back was 97 was watching watching me and thinking, what are you doing? A short one guy walking towards us? I was like fact this is this could be my shot. And as he got closer, I was like, hey, mate. Today is like going in here. And he's like, yeah, you
are where are you flying to India. You got a bit weird. And he's going to Melbourne he was on the same flight as my house like, oh my god. I said, I made Scott status kind of get me. Would you mind if I came as he? Yeah, sure.
But then there was a question of when he when we walked in, there was a moment where like, I do want to come sit with
champagne together. said yeah,
feel free to come to the works at Microsoft. Same like an interesting dude. Yeah, I
actually think more people should do that.
Get a plus one. Yeah. If you if they're travelling solo just kind of go up and yeah, let's see. Yeah.
Yeah, but Oh, just stand
idea though there's an extra layer on. So it's called karma. And so it's based on like, I don't have cuantas. But I've got virgin. And so it's like I do it for someone. So then when I'm on a Qantas flight, I can give it and so
we did find one problem terms and conditions of status these can't do
without them. How do you monetize that? If it's a comma,
a lot of businesses that haven't yet.
Some have raised millions. So we're talking about with some of your business ideas that haven't gone anywhere. And I think that's the easy part right? ideas are easy. execution is titling. Oh, yeah. Another thing. And few what you've created is working, the podcast is growing, and it's got a great audience and the business or why did you land on this one?
Um, yeah. So after a few, you know, start stops with ideas, we finally landed on lady brains. And I think, you know, there were originally three of us in the beginning, maybe I was out in our co founder as well. And the three of us just identified these, the fact that we all wanted to a network that we could tap into, and we wanted to be able to connect with, you know, other women that were starting up businesses or trying to scale a business. And I think, you know, I was working for myself at the time. You know, Anna again, she wanted to expand her her network as well. And so we just it was, it was kind of an easy one to stop because we had friends and our friends also wanted to do kind of like a dinner series or a dinner club. And so we started running the supper clubs. And that was so easy for us to do. I mean, like we go to dinner anyway. But let's just put kind of formalise it put a little bit of structure around it.
So like tickets is like, yeah,
we selling tickets
living the bill, you know?
And it's so much easier, right? It's like, yeah, payoffs come along, and you know that the Genesis was, you know, with a supper clubs, and it grew from there because we started inviting founders into these dinners. And so you'd have the opportunity to sit at the table, and, you know, talk to and ask questions of a founder, who was building you know, a big business like that's, that's quite unique to be able to ask any question that you want.
You think people have more social anxiety now that like, Is it hard for people to network? And network?
Yeah. I mean, I think there is a degree of social anxiety with social media and all that sort of stuff. But I mean, the demand for supper clubs are just crazy, like, well, we don't run them that often, maybe once a month. But when we do run them, they sell out within, you know, 48 hours, we
mean less than that late, they're available. For 48 hours
driving that like real life connection, especially people who was sold trade as they work from home by themselves, and they don't have a team will have a virtual team, people are just dying for it and
Good connection. Yeah,
yeah. And also, I think a lot more people and now doing that and taking the leap, because entrepreneurial ism, is that a word I knew enough days, but you know, building your own business is so much more accessible now than it used to be. And so people see other people doing it, and they're like, I can do that I'm going to quit my job and give it a crack. And when they do that, you know, a lot of women especially aren't necessarily set up with the networks or the right information to be able to succeed. And so that's kind of what we exist to do is help people, you know, help women specifically who want to go off and start their own thing and set them up for success. But I think like it wasn't, it wasn't necessarily a business idea that we had was it was it was organic. Yeah, it was one dinner and then The next in are all the people that came like, Oh my God, my friend would love that can shake up. And then the next month that was like double the size. And then the next month it was like 45 people. And that's when we were like, okay, there's something in this. So it kind of just grew from there. Yeah,
yeah. What are the commonalities? Like what are you finding that everyone has in common? specifically around problems? What's the common problem?
Hmm, good question. I think it's a few things I think, you know, a network. So just being able to, you know, share your wins and your problems with someone else that understands and cares. I think people were looking for contacts. So suppliers. Yeah. You know,
yeah, mentors or, you know, someone that can introduce me to that person. Yeah. You know, yeah, the context has been a huge pace
contacts has been a big one. And what else would I like? Yeah.
I think certain mic skills as well because a lot of people are taking the leap, taking the leap and starting their own consulting business or, you know, side hustle, whatever it is, and you're expected to do everything, you know, especially if you're a single founder, you have to do everything you have to do PR marketing, product development, sales, networking, blah, blah, blah. And a lot of people don't necessarily have those skills. And so they're looking to kind of fill in the gaps.
You know how any cool stories of you know, people have formed connections, you know, and then created a business together or wasn't the intention of coming to do one thing, and they've got something else out of it?
And we've had people that have had, like, secure jobs. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, we had a good friend of ours who was working at maker and got a job at a great job at Thank you his head of product development through someone she met at a supper club.
We've had, you know, people find a supplier or a manufacturer through a contact at the dinner. We've had people connect, in terms of finding a sponsor like sponsorship deals, so because we do have we have female founders come along. But we also have people from, you know, the corporate world as well, which is really cool that they're showing an interest in, I guess, intrapreneurship entrepreneurship. And they bring a lot of value, they kind of see business in an entirely different way. And so it's nice to have a mix of women at the table that have different experiences. And you know, we do, you know, often use table topics, and they guide us and I get, you know, again, the lessons that come out of the answers to those table topics because they're quite, you know, they're so fascinating from different perspectives has been really helpful for for most of the women, they're
taking the leap thing. You've had your business for a while, and you've, you know, made took the leap, leaving Mecca. What's the big misconception? Do you think? Because there's something very sexy about the whole idea of just going out and finds whatever starting your own thing. Yep. what
it is. It's definitely glorified, that's for sure. And this is sent of like, you know, being an entrepreneur, be a founder and even those words for me kind of hold a bit of like, you know, yeah. I think the hardest thing for me has been kind of moving away from being in an office environment where you're bantering with your mates all day every day. And you've got to be the structure and then so you know, we live together as well. Together with best friend and we live together.
I guess that would make like travelling and stuff easy, like when it comes to like going to like
food on the business.
Travelling off my bedroom to the kitchen table. Yeah.
And so I mean, the Yeah, I guess there's the those intangible things around the banter and the community. I guess there's co working spaces that are sort of popping up to try and feed those those missing bits. What do you think he's the big misconcept? What's the missing piece? Do you think like that? What What would you wish that you knew when you decided to make the transition? Ah, that's
a great question. Um, I think the biggest misconception I don't know if this is answering the question, but the biggest kind of thing that I've had to learn is that and it sounds so stupid saying it, but like, you have to work for every fucking dolla. You know, like, when you have a salary, you get paid every fortnight every month, and you're doing the work and it just goes into your bank and you don't think about it. Like when you have your own business, you have to hustle and work for every single dollar and you might be working the hardest you've ever worked in your life and earning nothing. But I'm still trying to get my head around that. I don't know if Yeah, so it's I can relate to that. Yeah,
yeah. It's easy to become like evangelical about the whole thing. Like when you see your mate, who are like employees or whatever, and you hear what and like, do you have any connection of like, what you do and how that makes money, like a lot of people are shielded, especially, I guess in the new economy. Digital one also thing where it's not bricks and mortar. It's not like you necessarily will see anyone they're using they're all these,
you know, it's these content roles as well. Especially because you creative roles where you just meant to be creating stuff or videos or and then it's like, how does that connect to $1? Yeah. And how has that impacting how you might have? You don't care about cash flow and all you know, all you need to do is work out what's a cool video? Yeah, it's disconnected. So I feel the pain like I know. It's up and so have you linked into it?
Um, if I went into it, a
kite Take care. Me? Yes.
Yeah, running on the treadmill. Right. Did
you Kate, did you have that experience? Having had your own business in regards to cash flow and all that sort of stuff or?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I've worked. I've been working, you know, for myself for about five, six years. So I know what that's like. And it's hard because you can you can Share, Like, I can tell you all the things you know, but it's until you really step into that position and you go Holy crap, you know, I don't have someone putting money in my account every week or every month, you know, I have to work for every single dollar, then it becomes the reality. And so yeah, it's hard to kind of, hopefully, you know, I kind of imparted as much advice as I could and and like, you know, I think it's kind of soften the blow the fact that I've been through it. But, you know, it's just more ongoing challenges were a start up at the end of the day, and, you know, we have to figure out a way to make money and survive.
Yeah. And I think it's also being really strategic about what you go after and what you don't like when I was working at Mecca. If there was an opportunity, it would be like, yep, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's see this, let's, you know, you know, develop this, whatever. But when you're in a small business, you have to consider the value of every single thing that you choose to do. Because if you say yes to something, then you're saying no to something else.
Yeah, it was kind of a double edged sword because it You know, when you're working for yourself, you have, you've got the freedom, right? You have the freedom. And you can say yes to anything. But there are so many opportunities right out there that you have to kind of whittle them down and say no and focus on what actually, you know, is the most valuable at the time. So yeah, you've got all these opportunities, like shiny object syndrome, you want to go out there everything, but really, what's the, you know, most sensible thing to pursue? And that's what we're trying to figure at
the moment. Yeah, right. What's up for everyone?
Is it at Todd to hop
entrepreneur ship or entrepreneur is a fashion accessory. And so that doesn't get you through the hard time.
No, it's not for the faint hearted. I mean, God I mean, both of us are like, let's just throw in the towel or get a job.
Because we talked about this morning, I was a cop. I got I get 10 weeks off a year.
He was telling me the other day you have to have life experience to apply to have you 12
that's not a task for today
to do some others you could do it now.
Yeah has he had enough podcast won't be able to apply
you surely you can just have grammerly up yeah yeah sorry What is it? What are the what is it about the the jobs if you were to have a job Oh, it's a fun process. It's like it's equivalent of it's the opposite of thinking about what you can do if you like win the lottery right? Like if I was to give away my dream Yeah.
Oh, I don't
know what I do not have one because I'm like, no.
You know, and you know, I I'm quite lucky in that Mecca said to me, you know, if you ever want to come back You can so that's great. That's a plan baby. Yeah, that's exactly the plan, baby. I just I can't imagine experiencing the freedom that we've experienced going back and and being in a nine to five, but you know,
yeah, the joke is to go back but you just couldn't. It's too hard and we really believe in what we're doing. So, I mean, even if we won the lottery tomorrow, bloody hell, that'd be great because but we know where to put the money and it would enter the business. I hate working. So
yeah, straight into a bar and making a
change where we
were talking about is like the fear of the unknown. Entrepreneurship been doing and creating something from scratch. It's like, no one knows if all work all the goodness is no one necessarily knew. Because there's all the ones that didn't, and they all thought it was going to work. Yeah,
yeah, almost fail. Like, that's the reality.
I guess the other thing too is it's like something sometimes we asked for advice from people but it's They're not doing it yet. We're expecting them to be like across why we're doing it and getting that sort of
value from them. What's the consistent pattern across the people you made? They come to your events that is like, they believe in something. And like, yeah, I truly believe it. Whether will work or not?
Yeah, they do. And I think it's really important to have a vision and to understand what your why is, you know, like, What's your reason for being and for, for, you know, blindly pursuing something? You know, we're pretty clear on our why, and I think most of our guests have been to definitely, you know,
yeah, I think it's been one of the consistent things across everybody that we've interviewed is everybody has had this like, vision and there have been uncompromising in pursuing it. Like, you know, CJ is a great example of that. And, you know, Joe Hogan, who will release next year also has the most clear vision but that they're willing to do anything to get there. You know, and they're willing to pivot and change and sacrifice these and, you know, get there in a million different ways. But that never changes.
Yeah. And I think, yeah, so often you can get stuck in the like day to day, right? It's like you get bogged down by, what do I have to do today? What do I have to release tomorrow, and you know, that can kind of you can start to just, you know, float around. But I think if you're really clear on your vision of where you're heading, it kind of pulls you through. And so every decision that you make, you know, every every decision you make is really kind of getting you to that to that, why,
what about compromises? Where does that fit in a grand vision,
you have to compromise and sometimes you have to pivot based on what you learn, you know, if like, you're validating an idea, you know, we were talking to Sarah fryer, you know, not too long ago, and she taught us that Slack, you know, which a lot of us use used to be a gaming application. So, you know, it started out as a gaming application and they had the chat functionality for all the game is to kind of connect and then they figured out, oh, well, everyone's actually just connecting through the chat thing like, and they completely change their product. So you have to compromise, you have to pivot. And you know, sometimes that does get you to a better outcome. So it's kind of listening to what your customers want and listening to. Yeah, it's it's taking, you know, all these different all the information and trying to figure it out. And that is probably the most difficult part. Yeah,
yeah. Doing it as a team creating that alignment. How does that?
Look? It's been, it's been a challenge. I think, Caitlin, and I work in very different ways, which is great, but it also can be a challenge. But I think one thing that has held us together is that we have the same vision and we have the same values like we want to help women we, you know, we are passionate about this, and it's just about having good communication. Yeah. But you know, yeah, like Caitlin's very, very, very considered in all of the way they can all of her decision making sure think through everything she'll take the time to think through properly, whereas I'm really Trigger Happy I'm really getting high. She's a shiny object. And, you know, that has been a point of, you know, it's been a point of tension and frustration for both of us. But ultimately, it's great because, you know, without her consideration, I would have probably gone off in a million different directions without my kind of pushing, pushing, pushing, we might not have taken the action on XYZ. So it's all about balance
each other out, which is really nice.
Yeah. What's the difference between the July the partnership and say, having maybe like in that sort of three person, how does that change dynamics do you think?
Yeah, I mean, I guess you've got that third person. So if you ever have a tie, tied decision, and you've got someone that can go one way or the other, so sometimes, you know, we made
someone who's very sought out would say something straight out of a contract.
Yeah. hosts the contracts. Yeah.
But you know, obviously she's Yeah, she would help us kind of make the decision sorry. Sometimes we get tied up and we might just throw it to our other house made or will throw the dog
He is a strategy consultant for sports marketing agency. Yeah,
He's like, I feel like I'm, I feel like I'm living in a startup environment. Like Yes.
What are you doing to stand
the legend? Yeah,
the thing with it like going to New York or whatever even having that in the whole strategy like New York or Melbourne, Sydney and your WHY? And what does that do in regard to To the vision or how you look at the whole, you know, business.
I think we went to New York, partly because of the wedding, but also partly because you know, the podcast space is becoming quite saturated, especially in Melbourne. There are a lot of podcast is in Melbourne. And there are a lot of guests who are sort of cycling through the same, the same guests who was cycling through this podcast. And you know, one of the point of difference fast is like, we want to be able to get the guests that other people can't get. And so part of that was going international. And, you know, we had a mutual friend with CJ Hendry, I used to live with her ex boyfriend. And so we landed her and it was like, Yeah, like, we've got to go. She's, like, just no press really ever. She's only ever done one other podcast interview. So we were like, yet we've got to go for that. So I think that has been that has been important in terms of differentiating the podcast, but with Lady brains, like we want to build a global business and we want to build global communities and sort of connect these startup hubs of the world. And so, Melbourne, Sydney, New York, that's kind of just how its evolved. And
and that's just the stuff Yeah, you know, I think, yeah, we want to connect all of the startup hubs. And I think that's quite exciting. You know, we're kind of all doing, we're all doing the same thing, right? We're all starting businesses, and we've all got the same similar challenges. So how can we connect founders globally, and learn from each other? I think that's kind of also the next pace.
Yeah, I was thinking about the, you know, rich people's problems, people who don't have much money and the similarities of the struggles that we all have. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a comforting piece to understand that everyone is going through. I've said that before. It's like, I find some solace in that, like we are all going through.
Yeah. And it's interesting, like we interviewed someone couple of days ago, who we're going to release next year. And Kate Mars from adult beauty. She was amazing. And she just sold 60% of our business for, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars. And she was telling us that in 2014, they almost went under, they couldn't pay payroll because they They, they didn't have the cash flow. And she'd been in business for almost 15 years. She was a multimillion dollar business. And she's experiencing the same problem that we are that small businesses do. And so that was kind of that was quite powerful for me. But she runs out at home. So she
found the app. Yeah,
yeah. Yeah. And so it's a funny one, because it's, but we all It feels like we've got the biggest problem in the world, you know, when it's your own right. How do you get perspective? How do you guys because I have an idea of how I gain perspective on the situation. I mean, is there a tool that you use that makes the big things seem smaller?
Yeah, great question. I'm pretty high in my strengths in perspective. So I think just, you know, kind of just checking in, I think gratitude. Gratitude is a really good practice. You know, whether you just kind of Figure out what do you what are you grateful for this week? This month? You know, some people journal, I just kind of have a think about it. I think, you know, being grateful for what you have is and, and and the experiences that you're going through, like holy crap, you know, I get to build try and build a business with my best friend. We get to travel, you know, it's frickin cool, you know, and I think, yeah, it's hard. They're definitely challenges and you know, you don't know where the money's coming in from. But at the end of the day, you know, we've chosen this path and and I'm grateful for that. So gratitude helps me
there's a piece of self development instantly any business because you need a workout. Like, so for instance, yesterday, Michael bungay stanier, who was on mentioned something around him being more risk adverse when it comes to money. Yep. So he's holding in a bit closer and sorry. He's identified that is there something you've identified in sort of how you approach it in a difference. You mentioned the, you know, thought out or seeing how it all plays out your bit more Guns
what's the personal values values that end up really translating like Tommy is very specific on where are we spending money expenses How can we cut and I'm always like let's just get bigger clients so we can service my dumb things
What do you buy?
What have we got what
we literally did this
half grand in these by the way
question we asked
I can't remember anyway go on turn off grand Yeah, that was a lot. But no so the what is actually you say? Yeah, I guess it's the it's the whole thing of for us it's the expense and working together works really well because that means that like I'm actually dialled in, like Tommy does a lot of the like the stuff goes on his couch. or whatever. He's across it all and stuff. And but then I'm able to bring the other side which is the posture of asking for more money. You're working out ways of generating more. What is YouTube? What do you strength?
Oh, yeah, well, so just on that I think we were pretty lame. We don't spend a whole lot of money like I mean, yeah. Which is good. Not yet. Anyway, we'll see what 2020 looks like. So, you know, in terms of figuring that out, we're pretty well across, across both across but yeah, and
have you Is there a way or a formula of determining whether you should buy something or not? 97 what some dumb shit that they put up on 97 you got the tattoos. He decided to get some What are they called? With a temporary tattoo. putting that on his iron g because he didn't want it. He couldn't be bothered bringing it to us. He
was actually gonna blow up in
So, so 97 can be fact asking how much of the
ROI on that? Yeah, I'll spend Well, we'll have to see in two weeks.
We're gonna be on the show in two weeks. I say.
What do you reckon? temporary touch
station or something at one of you?
Well, we actually a good friend of ours Phoebe has a brand called the memo, which is the baby a contact, and I've heard launch party. She had a tattooist, so Jim, what's gonna chat there? She goes, Yeah,
Yeah, I know. The funny thing is she got a can of coke bottle of Coke. And I thought she said it was to keep her sugars up. And I was talking to her and she actually, she brought the coke with her. I had assumed that they had it.
She knew she was
still trying to work out what this is.
Show up for what he faints. Again, Four o'clock.
Yeah, that's what I was getting. I don't know. How
does that actually not help? I don't know why that was
blood sugar relating to a little Teto I don't think there's a connection. But what does it say to you know?
Get words are similar
He was he was he was something for a dog
joining I think morning. Yeah, I think
what it Fabian, I can
remember neither did you get one considered it that didn't say
you would never
consider for a brief moment.
So the formula of working out what to spend money on when push comes to shove, how are you going to work that out?
Look, it's just on a case by case basis. Like for example, without launch of season three, we had a marketing budget. We're going to spend X on this and we just figured out how to spend it and yeah, you know, we didn't activation in C'mon, that was super Successful went sort of bonkers. There was one car. That was a cheap activation. We literally stood at the front of Cohen CO and we tried our audience and we were like, you get a free coffee if you share on socials and who's gonna say no to a free coffee, and also strategically it's in amongst all of the creative agencies and a few big publications.
Close to bowl games. The basketball scares me sometimes. Yeah, but Bray, my girlfriend, she got a coffee and then I was like, are you posted on Instagram? She has. No not yet. I was like, What are you doing? You gotta post on. So I Yeah. Did you
do yourself out there creating content yesterday, young Harry was coached on the show. You know, and it was about the confidence to put things out into the world that really put your name behind something. Yeah. What is it for you? what's what's your You're feeling around putting stuff out into the world that you've got your name on. Ah,
you know, it's a really tough one. And we have been speaking about this for so long, because obviously, we've got the podcast, Ben. And we've got lady brains. But for us, where we like we are the face of the brand, I guess where the face of the podcast a little bit bit, the lady brains is not about us. It's about the community. And we want to build a brand that is so much larger than just us. And so I think we've kind of held back from putting a face out there and doing video content as a really good example. We haven't really done any video content. Because we're like, it's not about us. On the flip side, you know, brands grow so much quicker when there's a face to them that people can connect with. And so we're trying to we're trying to find that balance. It's not an art What do you think?
Yeah, definitely. I think you know, personal brand is a big one and you need one and you guys have done so well, but building your personal brands.
You think I'm personal friends, if you were to describe us, as in rituals.
Yeah, and so like it can be really hard putting your push it
can be difficult to put your name to it for sure. I mean, I think what you know, putting the brand name to something is one thing and then putting your own personal names to something. This is our first podcast interview. I really right. Oh,
this is the problem with having a
bullshit like calling it like, it's also this call out culture
actually being interviewed.
But I don't really
realise exactly what the daily talk show. Yeah, there is. Yeah, yeah. I like what you're describing about deciding on whether to pursue building a brand that lives beyond People behind us and then building your own personal brands. I mean, some piece of advice someone gave me is like when I was having that exact conversation was, who do you think of when you think of apple? Who do you think of when you think of virgin? Yeah, and you could rattle off a bunch of boosts you think about the founder, Janine. It's like,
it's true. And so through names favourite. There was a specific dude, like she had her own smoothie, but they've taken off the menu to naughty it was real not that's the thing. Like she's healthy. It's not healthy. It's called James favourite and so I'd be like my chiselling I'll go that it was like, fucking 2000 pounds. Mango, it was that whole thing Christian House said to us people follow people. Yeah. So there's a bunch of truth, truth.
Yeah, connect with people and people's stories, mostly than you connect with like the iceless brand. So that's actually a really great way right?
Yeah side again.
When you say a brand, what was
the brand like virgin you think and Richard brands and Apple you think of Steve Jobs? Bruce, do you think of Jeanine In fact, they have been able to build their brand beyond themselves using themselves as a bit of a tool or
privilege and let's dissect it is it that the business behind the thing that they're doing is so strong so the business model behind Jeanine, Alice's business would survive regardless of her. So she actually was a silent person within it. Or is it the fact that she pounded the pavement started the first and got it out there and then sort of gets behind it inspires other people didn't know you can create a business I can help you do that to the franchise model. I'm just I don't know the answer.
Organic media if you think about if your agenda when you're writing something, the first thing you can be like is Who do I have Access to for July luggage. It's a thin desk Hello? Hey Tiger it science aid like everyone needs
up yeah the brand. Yeah,
yeah, I guess that because if you're just talking about brands at that point it's sort of like just advertising I guess versus like the people story the people,
and then I try and work out. So, you know the cheekiness of virgin so it comes from Richard Branson who himself is cheeky and he's that guy pushing the boundaries and doing all these wacky shit. And so it then the personality of the founder embodied like becomes the personality almost or the tone of voice like yeah, I think like the Frank girls have done Frank body. They've done that I've done so amazingly because they've created this pseudo PR in and
then what about brands like Red Bull?
Who the hell
Good evening about it. They still it still got the people, folks media content like
the ambassador programme, but all the girls that drive the cars around? Yeah.
Yeah. And their dream school and all the
athletes that have lasted with,
you know, Nike, like, Okay, get two dogs book now and people know who, Bob but like that brand grew without the founder being the face. Also there are examples of both, but I think there was a stat that one of our friends told us the other day, that was like brands that have a founder as the face grow 800% quicker or something. Yeah, the brands that don't and I think that's true, you know,
what's an easier it's an easier conversation. Because I think Josh and I were talking about this, it's like, when you're starting out most people try and seem bigger than they are.
Yeah, to try and we're saying Yeah, what what makes something same a bit pavo and it's when you're trying to be big, it's when it's like, yeah, way this and we're doing this and we're gonna think
I'll see that the email the other day.
one of Australia's largest podcast
that was exactly right. Exactly how
did how did that go? You don't remember how sorry
I don't have headphones.
They can't do it. Something about the cats not enough cats or something. But I thought so what about outside
the gym at the gym. This is just bring you up to speed. We sort of tasked Harry to organise an outside broadcaster, you know.
Can we come? Yeah, well
find another one. Yeah, it was the one in the city.
Yeah. What did I say not enough Cat.
Enough cats when you're
strong so can you guess we could go to Japan there's an owl cafe
Not just random. They're all together. Yeah, I was at home having dinner and walked outside and like three hours and then he saw Bob and his little head and then he flew down in front of me it was quite I felt like something it was quite amazing
hanging out without but yes, I'm on board with that idea.
Your company car?
Yeah, we should. Yeah, but all just on this the sauna thing. I know we don't normally get into dreams but 97 was saying you had a dream that involves what happens?
All I can say that. Half of it, we all
assumed that the cafe cafe would just go bonkers I had the dream that we were having it at 97 SORNA it was an actual dream a dream a full on dream and then it went well and woke up. Oh, that's a good idea. But Tommy was freaking out because the lens was fogging up and know what's going on.
Quite a small space how many people you expecting?
Well, there's just for us and it's not having a sauna to be
I want to know what are you ready? I need I need another
the second part of the bullet
was actually one of those check paid Japanese also
turned out to be one of them. So you are you
what was the funny bit what was the what was the Japanese food system Jeff and
the spa going naked.
It was it was because we were naked. Is that why you couldn't say it
was really well, I didn't know how far you wanted me to get but it was just a bit. It was a strange dream.
Yeah, what do you think about so 97 and was coming to me with all the dragon he specifically with these dreams? Do you have vivid dreams?
Um, yeah, I have a few vivid recurring dreams so
I got the traumatic Yeah,
I have constantly have the teeth falling out. Oh train. What does that make me look that up placements? Yes, I'm pretty sure it means that you're going through change or stress or something. And that happens on the regular all your tape. Yeah. Sometimes it's part of my part of my day crumble. And the other day actually, I had a dream that I lost a tooth and it was full of diamonds.
That's great. So did you find it it makes so much sense. So the dream could indicate that you're dealing with some kind of loss, an abrupt end to a relationship or a job change change that makes
diamonds. Diamond take. Is there any others? So I had one the other night of Saranda. I remember I told you I was in a, I was in a restaurant, which also had a public poll polls seem to be coming out. And I went to the bathroom and in the bathroom where was a was a big black bear and all these tiny bear cubs just hanging out in the bathroom bear cubs with
bears and big Hobbs.
The diamond thing. The diamond thing is a symbol of wealth, power, love and attraction.
Yeah, I think that's positive. any bit of that and
bears bears symbolise strength, power and independence.
That makes a strength within the context of us. I was a bathroom.
And while I was in a restaurant that also had a public But anyway,
are you into, you know, I guess people call it we were thinking like looking at the meaning behind dreams or things that are you know,
I read I read 90 sevens horoscope on Sunday. Okay, no joke it says you have a new job on the horizon.
We did the clinker game where you bought it tells you the colour Will you stay in this job? And it said maybe? Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, look, we say your house.
But you know, we'll do the whole ceremony.
That's good fun.
Yeah, he doesn't appreciate that. But um, yeah, what else do we do? I mean, we've got this app called passion and that
what does it A patent is basically you put in your birth date and it gives you daily indications of like what's going to happen or where your head's at, or what you need to focus on. But you can also like link up with other people's patents so you get to see what's happening within your dynamic of your friendship or partner or whatever.
I unsubscribed from braze period the other day. I was getting like it flow i think is the I was getting constant emails and there's so long Oh my god, it's just like, I hope it doesn't. I hope she doesn't get notified.
Are you making business decisions based on this?
Like what's today?
podcasts podcasting. What is the biggest misconception like this So many people that want to start a podcast, where are people completely wrong? Do you think when it comes to podcasting or their perception of creating a podcast?
I think I mean I don't know whether there is a perception that it's easy you know, just get a microphone and press play and upload
it recording bit
we've lost some audio before. Yeah, I just think like, it's so much work. And also you know, if you want the quality to sound good, which have to have great production quality, because otherwise people will will automatically just you know, listen and then tune out
your sounds so good. And it's like, it doesn't take like you just say people getting close to the mic. Like I saw the behind the scenes just say James is holding. Yeah, that's, that's all like it's definitely not that hard. If you get the fundamentals.
That's it and we invested in like you guys have we invested in you know, good Travelling kit. And now obviously we can also record in the studio, which is like amazing premium quality. But yeah, I think you know, you have to sample it, it has to be good. And you know, I think you've just got to figure out like what's your point of difference once you put like it's kind of saturated now and it's you know, everyone's kind of launching a podcast which is which is great because I think that's the future of audio but I think you really have to consider how are you different what's the point of difference? How does it fit with you Brian link if you've got a brand already what's what's the strategy behind it don't just like go and launch it I put some thought behind it because I think you're going to perform a lot better in the long term
and the shiny object object view on the podcast thing What's yours?
as in like, what people I know because the
put thought behind Yeah, yeah, that's
by the gear. What we hope
to well it's actually the stores just around the corner store
they have some decks as well
we built it over time didn't wait we got the mics and we got the stands and we got the headphones oh my god the headphones makes such a big difference yeah
you don't know what the actual what it
sounds like yeah cuz you like yes it's kind of like you moving away and the guests start nodding because we obviously we know to stay close but your guests have no idea so the headphones were a great addition to the kit. Yeah we just we trial the trial and error. Yeah, really?
Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to look at two industries is you know, they gained if it's you're in the radio presenter world, you're in a to be up for playing a certain type of game. In the corporate environment environment. It's like, there is a game. Yep. That you play in the corporate environment. It's not one for me. What do you think some of the things that happened in the podcasting game, that you have to be up for one being in Example forgetting to press record, because that's like if you're signing up for that essentially there's an opportunity there's a potential of it happening.
Yeah, um, what else else is that? Um
I like you know we see if people can find you Yeah, no we have been trying to get PIP Edwards for ever and we had a locked in for an interview probably year and a half ago now and she had to cancel which is fine. Never got it back
getting retargeted with Estee Lauder, which she's talking about so racha Mayo for whatever reason, it just kept hitting me on Instagram. My I like my
next one. What about connecting with guests? So yesterday we talked about the first 25 minutes in any conversation is like, is this kind of trying to build rapport to find? Yeah, finally. Got it.
Is there something around that For you,
it's been interesting for us, because majority of the interviews that we've done have been offside. So we'll go out to the officers and we'll go be in their environment. And so they're automatically kind of at ease. And we'll have a bit of banter and a bit of chat and, you know, tend to show
us around, you know, like, it's very different when you go into someone else's environment. Yeah. Because then naturally, there are days Yeah, like, oh, come into my space. And I'll show you my warehouse. I'll show it. This is my intern, you know, it's like, it's great. Because you, you know, you're in their space. So they're there that God's already down. And then yeah, we'll have chit chat. I mean, we'll banter it's, you know, women we know how to talk, right? Like we just, we get going and then we'll do a little
So yeah, I mean, yeah, we have to work a little bit harder in the studio because women at podcast one, you know, they come into the, you know, Fox FM building and we put our producer there and there's frankly not as much time to get angiography because we're in the studio. I'm were there for an hour.
What if your performance Do you think
oh, I think it's perfect. So we've done it for you now. Right? I would say that it's probably more formal. Yeah. We're, we're probably cleaner and asking the questions, which is, which is good, but you kind of missed the banter away. I think when you're off when we're outside when we just like,
a lot longer. Yeah. So like with CJ, we were with her for two days, because
that was a content note on the floor with my stand on an MS box, you know, and she's guzzling coke. And it was just great.
Yeah, I did read that status of like, to eight hours of recording
time it was it was an hour and to be honest, there's so much gold doing it. Yeah, well, how to release a moment. You can't do that in the studio.
says, Why don't you start a Patreon. Like if you're going to start a Patreon you're going to suddenly be making like paper cash. What's a Patreon? It's like the Subscribe people subscribing. Yeah, so it's like God will pay you $5 a month and you give so much like Kickstarter yet but a subscription. Yep. type of model. Do you think that people are primed to pay for content you think people are going to?
I think we're in this like machine of free, like free content. There's so much good content out there that's free that the standard has been set. I think it would be a really hard it would be a hard job to convert people, I think, to paying for a podcast, even if it's good. Yeah. Even if it's good. I don't
know. Yeah, I mean, there are those services. But I agree, I think, you know, there's so many free platforms, but that's where, you know, ad revenue is is going to increase like, you know, obviously brands can advertise. And because ads have kind of been a part of podcasting from the beginning. We used to it, you know, it's not like you know, we used Instagram for a long time and there were no ads and then it was quite jarring but I mean obviously you adapt right uses adapt, but I think you know, people are used to listening to add some podcasts and more and more brands are going to get on board. And and that's where the spend is, I believe. So it might not necessarily people might not necessarily pay to listen to podcast, but I think they'll be fine with ads. And I think more and more brands are going to start spending that
you bring up a good point, though, is like how do you actually monetize this audience that you're building? And how do you commercialise this asset that you have that you know, I mean, that's hard and I think everyone's trying to figure that out at the moment because it's such a new space and there's no kind of like set business model attached to a podcast show. Everyone's trying to figure out where to take it and how to make money and is it this is that so? Yeah, it's it's
a question. How are you guys monetizing your audience?
I'll take the fifth. From the big room documentary. Oh, Like
that was son you wants to I mean that's a speaker I wanted to
talk about it a lot of document
gonna kill me because she's like every night
I'm just trying to mine the headspace that right now. Now we have nothing to contribute because
we haven't watched it it's
for one I didn't know that because from the yoga was a guy named big room and he still lives now it's not some old old yo
documentary made by an Ozzy lady named Eva honour Eva she awesome. Yeah. Such a good film. Yeah, you love
it. Watch it. Do that I wasn't really in the headspace to and I was like, wow, this guy's fucking afraid is quirky.
I have too much of that. Like it's not super, because I never brought myself to watch the Michael Jackson thing. I just Okay, so just watch still god, it's definitely got done. Yes.
Does it make you feel more normal?
I mean, he's a freakin by comparison.
monetization leveraging audience Yeah,
I still choose to take that. We've done quite a bit of
I think there is a another look at what monetization means. So you can cash reframe session, what's the first thing that comes to mind for podcast ad sponsorships. It's like literally reading out ads and getting money in exchange. And so that's one way there is a heap of ways to work out how to make money through this thing. And that's what we've been exploring is like, you know, partnerships, advertising, not work that comes from brand that we like. Yeah, I think if you're comparing to the big podcasts that are making a shitload of money from reading a script, then you know, it's it's a losing game.
I don't know if I took this from like their brand or something, but I heard it's like a influence without the influences. And I like that idea of like, we never want to go into like the influence. Yeah. Now, however, we would love to have a community that believes in the stuff that we're doing. Yeah. And so in turn, you have some form of influence. And so you're very protective of that. And so I think that that's part of it, which is like, if How did with everything that you're doing lady Brian's it's connected to network, it's connected to, you know, making those connections. And I guess that's what we get to do every day with the podcast is it's as much about us having a reason an excuse to chat to to YouTube than it is to communicate to the audience as well. So I think that that's it's a very long day. Yeah, of doing great work. Yeah, hopefully that great work turns into cash maybe
diversifying your income to it's like you can there is other ways totally within the business.
Look at you guys look at you guys. It's Yeah, the supper club. Yeah.
You know the size of those and the scale of that it could be a direct reflection of how big the brand, yeah, Ladyland becomes, you know, so it's
Yeah, in every single I could imagine yet Melbourne, Sydney, New York, or simultaneously all happening at the exact same time. Have you done that yet? Or have they all been local,
like a local, they've been hyper local. And I think the challenge with that is like way, personally, they're driving everything and we can't be you know, in three places at once. And so we've run events in all three cities, but never sort of at the same time, and we're trying to think through how we connect like the startup hubs, digitally. As well,
and also spoken about doing kind of Ladyland lives on a bigger scale. You know, we've we've done some of that 30 4050 guests, but how do we kind of go into a and you know, do them in Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide? That's another, you know, opportunity.
That Yeah, I think the hardest thing, the great thing, but the hard thing is like, there are so many ways that you can take in this, you know, the podcast is merely the platform and the brand platform and marketing tool, really. And, you know, you off the back of that build a community, whether you're driving that or not, there is a community of listeners who are like minded because they listen to your podcast. And then it's like, well, what do you do with that? And I think Joe Hogan from Makeup just was so amazing in her advice to us. She's like, the art is not in generating the ideas. The art is in the editing down of ideas. And that's the process we've been going through for the last four months. It's like how do we Edit down all these ideas in a way that makes sense
to then execute on the ones that really mean Yeah,
exactly. To choose the one or two that you execute and go after.
Can you execute and it is at the same time? Is that what it is? horizon is? Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, you can definitely,
yeah. Ladyland the next episode, who's joining, you know, next week,
and next week, we have Sasha Benz, so she is an Ozzy bond, a girl who lives in the Hamptons, New York.
La, two horrible places.
We're talking about
that was inexpensive. He went out to the Hamptons and interviewed her and that was only seven laughing
But she's got four or five businesses. Yeah, so she's like, got two kids, five businesses. She's got she's building a tech business. She's got two retail stores. She
has a blog has an online
Yeah, yeah money from she's the creative director of the surf lodge which is this kind of like, crazy
venue. The Hamptons where like all the kind of celebrities go and they have, you know, performances music performances over summer. So yeah, it's pretty
loopy fiasco. Yeah, pretty good.
Is this like a big venue? I was thinking like an old school lunch style. Well,
it's not an old school sort of lunch in looking field, but because it's in the Hamptons. Yeah,
so it's like a pot of celebrities and they have, you know, the best acts like Beyonce was there when we were there. Drop that one. You know, we actually were recording the interview with Sasha and she had to go because she was getting a call from besides people saying, Bianca it's like coming to your store.
What did that do to your headspace because being in LA like you have this sort of idea and you get into the hour and what so be really be Does that do psychologically? Like does it does it stretch your mind? Does it?
Yeah, I think it does stretch your mind i think you know, you you kind of you get used to working in your own town city and then you kind of go overseas you're like wow, like that's just people living large i think i think i think of it more in terms of like opportunity you know, there are people over there that are that are also building incredible businesses that we want to talk to. And yeah, like getting a call from beyond his people. It's like
yeah, that was a bit of a What the fuck moment and a lot
being interrupted because beyond days in town, that was the moment where I was like, What did we
Why did we get here? How did we get going because we jumped at
a box and we were cycling around the country a little while we didn't find a chopper
But yeah, it's it's it's a kind of a pinch me like what are we doing but but at the same time, it's like everyone's the same. Everyone's normal, like, you know, she's an Ozzy, she's a Nazi over there. And, you know, she's she's built, you know, some successful businesses and, you know, Beyonce wants to get in touch him. It's kind of like any, it's anyone's game. Anyone who's going to do that, you know, so, yeah, there's a part that like, you know, it's it's aspirational, it's unattainable. But then, at the same time, you're like, holy crap, that could actually be anyone.
Yeah, I think that's the that's the learning for me going is is seeing the possibility and re re evaluating what possibilities look like for us. Yeah, and what we're doing so it's a good perspective shifter.
Do you think that it has made you realise you're thinking too small, like these?
Can? Yeah, it's what happens a lot of the time. And so I think about well, it's also the all the the size of this country, and the amount of people here is so small in comparison, so a small piece of the pie over there is bigger than the whole pie here. Yeah. And so that's where it's like, yeah, Maybe you do start looking internationally. It is that Yeah, so, but then it's the hard beedis How do you bottle that? And and get back? Yeah, how do you bottle that in? And because it's
like, but also like, Anna, to your point before it's like you have to work for every dollar. So the idea of having these big dreams, you actually need to think small you need to make like $1 before you make 10 you know, 10 before 100 and 100 before 1000. And so it's very easy to see these big things and try and create a roadmap to that. Whereas like, it is the painful truth of you just have to like, start small and keep going. Yeah, to get to the big thing. Yeah,
totally. My mom built a business last 25 years and that was one piece of advice she's like, start small but always think big. Because if you get if you thinking big you can get caught up in that and you like hella fuck my going to get there and then you don't do the small thing. Whereas if you focus on the small things, one foot in front of the other, it's kind of like the balance.
And I think we're what we're really good at is goal setting. So, you know, the goal setting is the date today, or the, you know, the small steps that we're just talking about, like, Okay, what do we actually need to achieve? But all those small steps, as I said, before, getting you to that end game, and that's the big vision and we have big visions, you know, we've got, you know, we want to build a global business, but you can't go there straightaway. You have to take all the smallest steps. And we do that by just having really, you know, straight with strong, strict, clear goals.
Yeah, we work in three month blocks.
So we're working through a month blocks, and then we do two week sprint cycles. Yeah.
Where are you? In the three months? We started
just December, January, February. Yeah, we've just started an entirely new three month block. And yeah, we're, you know, the one week first week of the two week sprint cycle, so Ron would begin pretty clear like you know, I think you have to you have to have some kind of accountability. You have to be setting goals because otherwise Kind of shooting from the hip. Yeah, not getting anything done. And it's been good because with that three month plan, it's like, for me anyway, you know, it stops me from going off in a million other directions, which is my natural state.
She's like, we've got three big things we want to do
the goal setting one like baccara
I think it's awesome what you're building especially like Ladyland, the other day, I was listening to it on the way to work, and then came back and before the guys were talking, I had to write down all the notes as the things I was learning because it was I think you've done a great job of packaging it up but also I think the ending where you talk about these are the takeaways Yeah, I think is like really powerful. Yes, sometimes we don't synthesise we're doing shit job being able to do that and so I think that's really powerful too.
I think we throw the throw it over to Harry to get his takeaway from the episode.
what's the takeaway? Sorry, I don't know he's got no happened. I don't know
what If you found inspiring about
entering kite Do you think I think the goal setting and how if you have egos, you're more likely to achieve them rather than not putting them down line listing them. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it was the last thing I said.
Thinking of work experience is all about pushing one another. Yeah.
I'm happy if you take that away. Great. Yeah, go right down some calls.
97 you know, probably probably the whole building a global community and connecting central hubs. Yeah, I think I felt like that really resonates with what we're doing and we're super inspired by that. So I was really yeah, stuck with that as awesome. Right, there we go.
Yeah, definitely check out Ladyland. Apple Pie
buzzing to I think it's Beyonce.
Ringing How do you know who's banks? Oh? Well
yeah, he's been going through the bad.
Yes, he's fresh that
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