Stacey June On Letting Go Of Expectations

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 703.

Tommy: Welcome, Stacey June, back to the show.

Stacey: From my house.

Josh: I love the colour, by the way. What's actually behind you right now?

Stacey: A mattress.

Josh: It looks beautiful.

Stacey: Which is covered by the doona. You know, my husband, my now husband, had that doona on his bed. When I went into his room for the first time. And I thought, well, this guy's a keeper. Look at this colourful thing. It looks like if a man can have that on his bed, if a man can have that on his bed, you know that he's comfortable with himself.

Josh: Oh yeah, definitely.

Tommy: Oh yeah. Hey, since last time you're on the show, uh, you now have baby. Congratulations.

Stacey: Yeah, thank you, thank you very much. Uh, his name is Bryn, not Burn, and not Brian. But Bryn.

Josh: How do you spell it?

Stacey: Bryn. Yeah. B-R-Y-N. Bryn.

Josh: Yeah, that makes sense.

Tommy: Brian.

Josh: People get it wrong. Okay. Yeah, I guess I could imagine that.

Stacey: Or Burn.

Tommy: Don't worry, it's Brodie.

Stacey: Mine was like— Yeah, I can imagine.

Tommy: Brodie. Brodie. I've got a child named Brodie. I didn't even know.

Josh: But anyway.

Stacey: Well, I think Bryn's going to think that his name is Burn because Ben and I joke so much about calling him Burn to take the piss of people.

Josh: And now I don't actually think he knows knows what his name is.

Stacey: So, we're like, "Hey, Bern, haha." And like, we say that probably more than we actually say his name. So, I, you know, you start to realise that you've got a responsibility to teach your child the basics, i.e., their name, and not take the piss straight from the beginning, because that could be confusing.

Tommy: It's a hard one because the kids start then using— they mispronounce everything. So, one of Bode's best friends at daycare, his name's Jimmy. But Bodie calls him Ginny with a G. It's close. And I now call the kid Ginny because it's cuter. It's like you end up being like— and but then, yeah, do you correct them or do you just like, oh, that's so cute. Yeah, where's Ginny? How's Ginny today?

Stacey: I don't think Ginny's worried about it, to be honest. Like, I think that's the main thing we should be measuring that concern from is Ginny's issue slash Jimmy. And I think it's more our shit than it is about Ginny's.

Josh: Do you do baby talk, Stace? Has that become a thing since having a kid?

Stacey: Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. Sorry. I need to apologise to the world. Like, I just didn't think I would be that person, but— And I actually read somewhere that it does help their development, and that made it worse because I kind of now justify it to myself that I'm making him smarter by talking to him like a dumbass. So, it's a real juxtaposition, you know.

Josh: I thought that you're not meant to do it because then they're never going to learn how to actually say Jimmy's name properly.

Stacey: That's what I thought. Now I'm drooling like him. Yeah, I thought the same. I thought the same. But no, funnily enough, that those kinds of sounds and that tone gives them something. So, yeah, it's very hard. He's very cute.

Tommy: Well, we were looking this morning, it's like a 2.5-year-old to 3-year-old can dress themselves. And I was thinking, Even if they do, even if they only learn how to dress themselves at 5, annoying for the parent, but also not the end of the world because the kid's going to learn how to dress himself when he's 16 at least. Like, you're always going to learn something. What does Bodhi— he mispronounces words. No, he confuses words. My beard is sparkly instead of prickly. And then, what is it? Spicy food is prickly. And so he's like, it's so cute though. And so I love it. I just start speaking in his language. It's beautiful. But can we, Josh, can we get a little official statement? You've had a 2007 Britney moment. It's JJ bitch.

Josh: Yeah, I shaved my head. This is, Stace, this is the first time I've come on the show with my shaved head because I just did it last night. So if you're feeling as horrified by the whole thing as everyone else is.

Stacey: Okay, so I was not wanting to act like I'd missed something because last time I had to address the whole thing around unfollowing Tommy, and then I thought, I'm going to come on now and be not in the loop that you've shaved your head so dramatically. So I just let it go and tried to pretend that I was familiar with this new look.

Tommy: This Seth Godin-looking character.

Josh: I was expecting like, yeah, like, how are you, Josh, anyway? Are you okay? You know, like, everything okay? All good? No, I am.

Stacey: Well, no, seriously.

Josh: Yeah, no, I was. I'm fine. I'm fine.

Stacey: No.

Josh: So last night I've been meaning to do it for ages. And the— just because I hate— my hair is very inconsistent. So Tommy has a very consistent— Tommy's got TV hair. 97's got sort of new age TV hair. There's not many curly haired people I feel like on TV. And so I love that Seb's sort of representing it.

Stacey: A bit of a Twilight thing.

Josh: Yeah. And I think it works really well. But I— here we go. TJ's I just put up a shot of Brittany. It actually, so what happened, it, yeah, so I decided to do it and Bri, on the weekend.

Tommy: But why?

Stacey: You're missing a very big point.

Josh: Well, it was just like, it just feels like fresh. It's easy, it's consistent, it's easy to manage. I know there's so much stress in my hair. Like I'm like doing, you know, last minute showers before the show so I can like try and like comb it and try and fucking manage it. I don't need this bullshit. And I didn't want to have to go to the hairdresser. And so, what I ended up doing was Bree said, "Oh, no, well, I don't want to help you with it. You can just do it." And then, so I just went to the bathroom and started cutting. And Bree seeing me cutting my hair, she was like, "Okay, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right. I'm coming. I'll help you." And so, we used my beard trimmer. I've got like a very small like a trimmer that's really only designed for stubble. And the thing burnt out halfway through.

Tommy: Oh no.

Josh: So I was sitting on the couch with half my head done.

Stacey: Oh shit.

Josh: And Bree knew exactly this was going to happen. And so I ended up, I have hardly been out of the house, but I had to go to Woolworths. I actually went to Chemist Warehouse. It was still open at 8 PM. Went to Chemist Warehouse and bought like a whole kit and we finished it off. So that's what's happened.

Stacey: Look, I've got to say, in the little square that I can see right now, it's much better with your whole face in my face.

Josh: Okay, like as in—

Stacey: Does that make sense?

Josh: So like straight on?

Stacey: Like now. So you go, yeah, straight on with the actual full picture. You know, sometimes when it's like a little part, you just look like a little sock.

Josh: It's like an emoji.

Stacey: But now when you can see—

Josh: It definitely has that vibe, doesn't it?

Stacey: But when you're bigger, you've got your whole picture.

Josh: Yeah.

Stacey: So, when it's smaller, it's, you know, like this without the nail.

Josh: Shannon's asked for my— for the famous tongue smile. Is that me? No, it's mine. But the thing is, but I reckon part of it, one of the good inspos from this is I feel like you can't rock this hair. Unless you've got a bit of muscle mass. I wanna sort of go for that just out of jail or potentially just served in the military look. And so that's my next thing is I'm like, oh, this is a good reason to, you know, get— Buff up. Yeah, buff up. Is that what people say, buff up?

Stacey: Well, you could maybe have, you know who would be a great inspo would be any dudes from Prison Break 'cause they are hot.

Josh: Oh, really?

Tommy: Oh, yeah.

Stacey: Remember Prison Break? And it was like this massive thing with shaved head dudes. And then there was that real life criminal that went viral. Around the same time as Prison Break. So, you're looking at the Prison Break era for inspo, I think.

Josh: You just said Prison Bake, which would actually be a great TV show. Just prisoners sort of like, mate, they—

Stacey: Ask me on the show with a newborn and then correct my language.

Tommy: No, you actually very—

Josh: It's my favourite thing to do. But you actually seem extremely like relaxed, happy, chill. Are you feeling that way?

Stacey: I am, I am. I mean, this situation, it's— there's lots of parts of it, I guess, that aren't ideal. He hasn't met a lot of my family, which is, is confronting, um, because you just have a picture of having a firstborn and having moments with grandparents and friends and memories. And by this point, we would be out of the house. We're kind of out of that real early, early newborn stage. But on the flip side of that, there's research that have said, which my auntie raised to me a few days ago, um, that's saying that newborns and babies are actually thriving in this environment. And I, I gotta say, I find it really hard to disagree with that because in the end, a lot of the social stuff and a lot of the visitors are really much more about our own agenda. The baby just wants you and comfort and security and wants to suss out their new world. And he's been able to do that in the most safe way. So yeah, it's hard to really find You have your days, but it's hard to find stress in that when Ben's also— my husband's also home too. So it's, you know, we kind of— we've had the newborn bubble for a long time and it's pretty cool. Although, the beaches need to stay open for me. I live here for the beach. I'm a Melbourne girl, as you guys know, and I live in Sydney because of the ocean. So the beach closing is a bit of a— that's a bit of a— That's an anxiety-inducing kind of feeling for me.

Tommy: They just opened Bondi Beach today. It's only for locals in Bondi that live in Bondi, I think. Is it— Your beach isn't open? Could you—

Stacey: We've got— Our beach is open till 9 AM now, so we can go have a swim in the morning.

Josh: Does that mean that everyone's doing that then?

Stacey: Well, it's barricaded off and it's policed. Like, there's— I've never seen police on motorbikes, but not motorbikes of the ones on the road, like dirt. They look like dirt bikes up and down the, um, kind of the walk. Yeah, fucking oath they are. This is the thing that is starting to get me right into the conspiracy theories, that attitude. And also, ScoMo looks very comfortable here too. So as much as I'm glad that everyone's thriving in the power, it's making me also question them because I'm like, my issue with authority is really playing up here.

Josh: You don't want them to enjoy it too much, like if they're going to set rules, you don't want them to enjoy it? Is that the—

Stacey: Well, what's the measuring system? How do we find out what— if we're improving or we're doing well, I just— how are we able to measure what our work has done and where the cutoff is for that to now be necessary or not necessary? I'm not sure how we measure that, and that is the part that makes me uneasy. I'm happy to do my bit, and I'm happy for us to follow rules if that means that Not yet.

Josh: Okay, you should. It's very easy. I will be able to do—

Stacey: Yeah, I will be.

Tommy: I think—

Stacey: Yeah, I know, but all of those things are the things that are getting in the way. I will do it though. Yeah, I vaccinate my kids, let's just say that much.

Tommy: Okay, okay, good, good. The thing about the social distancing is that if— When do we— When it, when it works, people will say, why do we need it? Because look, nothing's happened. And then The reality is that social distancing, the result is nothing happening. So it's like, it's a hard one because you're saying, when do we know it's working? Well, if nothing's happening, then that is a win.

Stacey: I agree with you. Yeah, because I wasn't feeling like this a month ago when I knew we had to do it and people weren't doing it. I was very much, you know, stay away from me. I need to walk up the street to get a few things. You do not need to stand that close behind me. All those kinds of things that we felt. But now I'm in a place where I'm like, okay, so How do we know where that line is and who makes that call?

Tommy: How, um, what do you— obviously more tired, more tired when you were doing Breakfast Radio or more tired now?

Stacey: Uh, probably Brekkie Radio, I think, because less joy.

Tommy: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, we had a great ride.

Stacey: We did, we had a great time, but you know what I mean. You've had a baby too. There's something about the joy of a baby that fuels you in a different way that's not about yourself. It's almost like this kind of magic petrol that's pure joy, really. And so, there's something about it that just kind of fuels you in a different way to other stuff that you've had in your life today. It's really weird and amazing.

Josh: Have you spoken about how it all happened, the birth? Because last time we spoke, you were— I think you got an indoor pool and it was all happening.

Stacey: We got a birth pool. We didn't go to Clark Rubber and just buy the, you know, but you could, I guess.

Josh: It's like, it's like weddings, you end up paying twice the price.

Stacey: Yeah, we spoke about that, the marketing element. Um, no, I think there are some, some important factors of just safety and being able to lean on it and all that stuff. But no, I haven't.

Josh: Yeah.

Stacey: There's no big pictures of babies coming out on the birth pool. So either— we just recorded, Ben and I just recorded our birth storey for our Couple Goals podcast. So that's the only real time we've spoken with— we haven't— and we haven't released that yet. So we did have a home birth.

Tommy: You're not getting any exclusives, Josh.

Josh: You're absolutely not getting any exclusives before the podcast.

Stacey: No, no.

Josh: Are you happy?

Stacey: Well, Well, we can— I will say that we had a home birth and everything that we spoke about, we did.

Josh: Oh, fuck. So, we've pulled out the exclusive banner, which—

Stacey: So, now I need to actually deliver.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Mason: Yeah.

Stacey: No. So, we did a home birth and I birthed a 4.7 kilo child, which in the old system is 10.4 pounds.

Josh: Is that big?

Stacey: And I had him at home. Yeah.

Tommy: It's huge, Josh.

Stacey: Yeah.

Josh: Do you know how big the baby is before you have him? Like if you go on the scales, could you work it out?

Stacey: They try. I don't think they ever thought that he was going to be that big because that's actually quite rare. You know, regardless of where you want to have your baby, it's quite rare to have a 10-pounder. I was quite overdue. They had a bit of an inkling that he would have been in the nines, but no idea he was was in the tens. And I— if we hadn't have opted for the home birth and the— and I guess the process and the, the way that the— I guess the choice of care that we did, there's no way they would have let me have anything other than a C-section, I think, if I was in the hospital, because they just kind of freak out at that size. So it's kind of crazy to think that when you opt to go out of the kind of that system or that conveyor belt, which some, you know, is that actually my body was completely— was able to birth that size baby at home.

Tommy: Is it like the Nirvana film clip, having a water birth? Like the kid just comes out, just, you know—

Josh: TJ's learned how to put images on his videos. I can see that.

Stacey: I can see that. He's really bringing the goods today. Yeah, I actually—

Tommy: How long are they underwater for when they come out? When a water birth comes out? 'Cause Amy was trying to do one before, but we got the no-go from doing it, for doing it.

Stacey: We, he would have been under for, well, his head would have been under for about in and out for at least 10 minutes.

Josh: And 'cause they're not breathing, are they, the baby, is the baby breathing straight away or is it still using the cord? Like what's the cord doing at that point?

Stacey: The baby breathes. Through the cord until you cut the cord. Oh, actually, that's— I better not. I don't know about that. Well, I mean, when it's coming out, it's definitely still the cord. It's not— Even if its mouth was out, it's not breathing air yet, obviously, because it's underwater. So, I guess maybe— That's a good question, Josh. I don't know. Maybe it gets air when it needs to get air. Do you know what I mean? Like it just regulates itself.

Josh: Yeah. And so, what was that?

Stacey: The emergency tank.

Josh: How long did it go for? How long? Like the whole thing? From start to finish?

Stacey: I was in labour. I was actually out at the pub for lunch on Sunday afternoon at about 2:00 and I burst him, but I started feeling contractions. I was timing them out. And then I had dinner.

Josh: While standing in chicken parma or what were you?

Stacey: It was a chicken salad.

Josh: Okay.

Stacey: The boys were having beer and some wings. So close.

Tommy: Good old days.

Stacey: Yeah, pretty much. Exactly. Remember that. And so, we had him, what, 24 hours after in total. So, 1 o'clock the next day, Monday afternoon.

Josh: I'm trying to remember. Is it— So, do you have a nurse arrive at your home? Is the pool like, I guess you've got time to fill it all up and things like that?

Tommy: It's a lifeguard, Josh. They're dressed in lifeguard outfit.

Josh: YMCA style type.

Stacey: Yeah. The Coogee Beach shut.

Josh: Yeah.

Stacey: The Coogee Beach shut and they did the announcement, hello patrons, we've got a home birth situation. To exit the beach, they put the shark alarm on and they were like—

Josh: Did anyone yell to get off the— to stop hanging on to the lane? You know, I used to always get in trouble when I was a kid when you hang on to the lane.

Mason: What?

Josh: It's like the— what is that called, Sev? You know what it is? It's like—

Tommy: Yeah, the lane in the pool. There's like a divider that separates all the lanes.

Josh: A divider, but you'd fuck it if you held on to it. And so, I remember being a kid nearly drowning and they're like, "Hands off the lane!" as I'm like going under.

Stacey: It's funny you say that. 'Cause Ben was in and out, he was kicked out at times and then was told to jump back in. So it was, I mean, our version, yeah. He was told to get out, "Get out of the pool, Ben, now, quick, quick," and hopped out.

Josh: Was that you that was saying that? Or like, what's the, who's directing the whole thing? And like, is it a lot of the mum? Like, are you doing that or?

Stacey: In a home birth situation, absolutely. Or in mine, I can only speak on behalf of mine, but, Yeah, I, I was. But, you know, you guys know me. I am— I don't— I'm not shy of words and I don't struggle, but I was very, very insular. So when you think about direction, it was very much led through energy. There wasn't a lot of speaking. So if I was uncomfortable, for example, or I needed more room, they just really kind of intuitively went with me. And I was just trying to find ways to communicate that as with as much energy externally as possible, which words, funnily enough, in those situations is a real big source of energy. And you don't want to be putting any of that out. You just want to stay really, really focused on the things that I chose to speak about. Had to be— I told myself they had to be absolutely worthy of a conversation.

Josh: So music, did you have music going?

Stacey: Yeah, we had a playlist. Like, I must admit, towards the end I was like, Jesus Christ, she could have put a few more tracks on this.

Josh: This sounds like DJ Precious. Did you play Justin Bieber's Yummy? What were you playing? What sort of songs?

Stacey: No, I had a playlist that was completely curated on things that made me get into my body. So if I felt— I listened to the song and I felt like I was in my body, not in my head, it made the list. And then the final playlist was the songs that I wanted him to hear when he came out. So more focused on him.

Josh: So it was Kylie Minogue, Beyoncé, um, Single Ladies, Yummy Yummy as he was coming out.

Stacey: Like, he did, he did come out to Beyoncé, one of the songs. So he came out across two songs, and it was the song that she sings to Blue, her daughter, um, and that was the second song. Yeah, that she came out.

Josh: He got married in New York. It could have been nice for Empire State of Mind just to sort of keep it, you know, New York. Maybe that would be nice, just a little bit of a main entrance.

Stacey: Well, he's got to have his own, he's got to have his own thing, right? Like, you can't make it our thing, his thing.

Josh: Yeah, no, I get that.

Tommy: What do you think, uh, we're sort of talking about that, you know, speaking to kids, the development of them. What do you think, like, um, the birth experience, like this is a bit sort of out there, like the birthing experience for a child and its connection to later in life. Like you hear about, you know, people have linked sort of pain in early stages when a kid doesn't understand it or can, you know, remember it, but linking it to later in life and it coming out. I know Stacey sort of like to look into that kind of stuff. Have you, have you been thinking more about this and, you know, the effects on children and things that happen in their early, early lives before you even can, you know, remember it as an adult?

Stacey: Well, I think, yeah, I think ourselves, you know, are quite intelligent and take on a lot of things that happen to us that aren't necessarily running through our conscious or our subconscious. So I think it would be probably silly to think that those types of massive moments in our life would, would have no impact. I think probably more the more traumatic situations would probably be just like anything in our life. When something quite momentous happens, it is, it is going to take its toll to some degree. How that equates directly to the physicality of us when we're younger or later in life, I don't know. But I know for sure I had an energy healer come over who's a good friend of mine and, and he's on and is on my podcast or the podcast that I did last year quite a lot. And You know, he's a guy that nobody really knows of. He was my engineer, but people just love him. He's just got this really amazing— I think it's also because he's an American, so his voice sounds so authoritarian.

Josh: You reckon any American could potentially do it, get into the market? Yeah.

Stacey: No, no, but him in particular, the content teamed with this kind of— like, he's from Colorado, I think. So just this, you know, there's a real vibe. Anyway, he came over and you know, he was able to really, um, kind of focus and work through the organs and see how settled they were and how, you know, he works with energy. And I don't know how it all kind of works, but he was just saying that, um, he didn't feel any form of trauma or stress. He said with a lot of babies, um, and I'm paraphrasing here, but with a lot of babies there is some form of shock that goes down for any kind of birth It doesn't need to be a lot of trauma or any kind of, I guess, chaotic experience for there to be an element of shock. So, it's quite hard to get, you know, a baby that's feeling so kind of settled early on because it is a fairly big thing to go through and your body definitely is kind of an imprint of that in a lot of ways.

Josh: Did you— is it what you expected, the whole thing?

Stacey: Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, I had a lot of emphasis and a lot of weight on it being a life-changing experience, which I think sounds ridiculous because of course it is. But I'm more speaking on behalf of my experience and this kind of matrescence that is spoken about of a woman going from this maiden to mother, from going from, you know, regardless of what your relationship status is or all those types of things, it's more about kind of almost like they talk about adolescence you go from through that time. There's a sense— there's a term that I only really learned about in the last 12 months called matrescence, which is very similar to adolescence but for women who go from being, you know, a woman that doesn't have children to a woman that does have children. And so I was really excited by all of that and put a lot of emphasis on my journey with it and what it would be like for me. And it was definitely everything that I had hoped it would be. It was incredible. Yeah, yeah, I have actually.

Tommy: How was that experience? Because I know, I mean, it's, it's, um, it could shift you. I think some women it might shift, and for men too, shift the priorities when they meet their little baby and they're like, ah, there's a— what I was caring most about is trumped by a newfound care or, you know, focus? What have you— I mean, you've always been pretty career-driven, Stace. Um, what's that experience been like for you?

Stacey: I think on the outside— and look, you're dead set right, like, there has been an element of me really questioning that as well and making sure that I'm always checking in with myself about that. But at the same time, from the external viewpoint it is quite career-driven in terms of doing any form of work in the first 3 months of your baby's life, sure. But the flip side of that, I think I've always been a person that has somehow been— my life's always been preparing for what's to come before I've known it's come. So when KISS finished, I started my own business from home. I started doing things that only ever caused me made me feel content and I was comfortable with and I wasn't anxious. After, after KISS and moving from, you know, that hardcore kind of radio environment, I really realised having the space that it was actually the source of a fair bit of high intense energy for me and a high, a lot of anxiety. And so any work that I did from there, I was very, very careful to filter only things that made me feel good about my life into my life. So weirdly then, when you're that specific with the kinds of work that you do, and I'm and I'm— I want to say privileged enough to be able to make those choices, but I work pretty fucking hard to make them. And there were times where I wasn't obviously earning as much money as I am now, or was at KISS. So it wasn't easy. I had to commit to that way of life. It doesn't just get handed to you. But, um, you know, I probably wouldn't have been able to do that completely the way I have when I was single. So I get that it's not all an option straight up for everybody. But at the same time, I really committed to making decisions of things that I would do in my life that were enriching and felt good. And I wanted to earn money from a way that felt like I wasn't giving so much of myself, but it was actually just more of an exchange, that it just all started to feel a bit better in my body. So then when it came to this time, there wasn't really a plan for me to work. There was some more stuff I needed to do on my book, which wasn't really my choice. Well, it was just there were some changes that we needed to make. And, and also I wanted to kind of get on board with my coaching at a time that I wanted to kickstart it. You guys know that if you run your own business, you need to be selling that in order to be— like when my maternity leave finishes, I want to start making a little bit of money, but that also means you've got to pre-promote. There's just different things that kind of happen quite organically. But I will say, a lot of it really truly, as cliché as it sounds, doesn't feel— it feels like work, but it doesn't feel anything that's taxing to my energy or taxing to who I am and what I'm, what I'm giving, if that makes sense. The other thing is the flexibility is something that I have 100%. So I think for me as a person that feels often quite, um, quite muzzled by pressure or by running someone else's show, it makes so much of a difference for me to be able to have full control in what I do and what I don't do. And when I have full control I actually can get a lot done because I don't feel like I have to do it.

Tommy: The, the pursuit for anxious— the, the pursuit for a life with less anxiety, and then it's like less pressure. I mean, there is that sort of feeling where you could go, well, to achieve— it's like reconciling your mind, achieving sort of successes however you see them versus that sort of desire for a less anxious existence. I see the appeal in that. Like, I think about this and what we're doing, and there's levels of anxiety. But I think there's the thought of what you could be doing, and then you're like, can I make enough money doing that? So for me, it's like a life that would be more focused on— like, I remember when I was a personal trainer, those times is like, it's a focus on your health, and, and they were less anxious times than now. But I also wasn't striving for a life that I am now. So it's a weird, it's a weird one.— it's such a chess game.

Stacey: I think they came— it is, and I think that they come in different times of your life when you need it, you know. Like, that's what I was going back to the question about working with Bryn being here. I think my life set myself up because I would need to have flexibility and be less anxious, which has given me the ability to work from home and work when I want, and not really seen it as that cliché I've gone back to work thing, but more so my life is all-encompassing and I do everything I do and it feels like good for me, and I only do it if it feels good for me. That started 2 years ago, that because I needed it. I think my body was ready and knew that I was going to be a mother at some point. So I trust that. When I was doing, um, radio or really kind of aggressively chasing my dreams for what, 8 years, I didn't need to be that as much. It was okay. I was— I loved it. I was never— it's never a point where I am in the place I'm at and now think this is better than where I was. It's just that I'm in somewhere different. I don't look back and think, oh, I was so anxious then, that was terrible and awful time. Um, it just was different to what I need now.

Josh: Uh, obviously, like, you've spoken about your experience conceiving and all that sort of thing, that whole journey and then actually giving birth and being a parent, is there reconciling that has to happen through that whole past experience?

Stacey: What do you mean by reconciling? Like kind of tipping the hat to that time or...?

Josh: Or just like, I guess, like, yeah, does it sort of come up or is it something that like, or is it sort of like, I guess, if you go that this sort of giving birth is part of that whole experience, or it's all part of that sort of journey. I just wonder if anything sort of comes up from that.

Stacey: I haven't thought about it, which probably answers your question, right? Like, because if I've— like, I've raised it and put things up on my socials lately because people have asked me questions. So it's been more about reacting to that or responding to that, um, as opposed to me having it top of mind. It's funny, now that I think about it, I do feel like the birth of Bryn almost kind of completed that journey. You know what I mean? So it's like when he was born, it's almost like that was the final part of that chapter and it was a completion. So we haven't really focused on it while he's been here. I definitely thought about it leading into him coming, and I definitely thought about it in my pregnancy. But since he's been here, it's almost like that's the next part. And I'm sure if we try for another child, because we will never be able to fall pregnant naturally. My husband has all of his sperm frozen from a cancer diagnosis years ago. So we will have to go through that journey again. It's not just a matter of we'll see what happens. So I imagine that process will start all over again and end how it's supposed to end. So yeah, it's weird. I haven't thought about it, but now that he's here, it doesn't feel like him being here is connected to that. So I think it may have ended the day he was born. Yeah, you told a storey which is kind of amazing.

Tommy: Yeah, we— the, uh, during IVF, were you given— you did IVF, Soph?

Stacey: IUI.

Josh: What's that?

Stacey: Um, that's where they basically— it's a turkey baster. So they don't have to take your veins out.

Josh: I've got a turkey baster.

Tommy: I've got a turkey baster.

Stacey: Don't.

Tommy: I don't.

Stacey: Or you can do one of those, you know what else is a thing? You can do the snot suckers that you give babies, which I've just been obsessed with lately. Like, you put this thing up their nose and rip out their snot so they can breathe. And you just, you get fixated on that shit. I was never a girl that wanted to to pick my boyfriend's pimples or squeeze them. I found that fucking disgusting, but I'm obsessed with this snot sucker. I can't, I just can't get enough.

Josh: You actually have to suck it at one end and it protects you or something?

Stacey: No, you don't do it in your mouth. It's like a, it looks like a turkey baster and you put it up their little nostril.

Josh: I actually don't know what a turkey baster is. What is a turkey baster? It's a basting of a turkey, so it's like a, what is it?

Tommy: Josh, do you know, have you ever got one of those little pumps that pumps up Water bombs, like a—

Josh: Oh, yeah. We use them for the cameras to blow air and shit.

Tommy: Oh, yeah, yeah. That's exactly it. Like something like that where you're putting it into their nostril, pressing it, and then the letting go will suck it out.

Josh: Because the babies don't know how to sneeze, do they?

Tommy: Is that the problem?

Stacey: Well, they also don't know how to blow their nose. And if they're breastfeeding, they can't actually breathe. So, it's like, it's actually a requirement.

Tommy: Yeah, oh, they're just— they're such little rodents at that point. They're just shitting themselves. Has he done any poo explosions?

Stacey: Oh, are you joking? It was so funny. I filmed his first bath thinking it would be a real memory, and he shat everywhere. And I find those things funny. I'm like the classic— I'm just mom already. Oh, that's beautiful. Oh, his shit doesn't smell. Like, it's incredible. Which, to be fair, babies' poos don't really smell until they start eating. Like solids. But I just think guys have a real issue with that stuff more than girls, I think. Like, Ben, my husband, was freaking the F out. I actually— if he lets me, I'll show you the video. Um, but he just was like, oh, oh, that's disgusting! Oh God, God! And I was like, whoa, this kid is like a day old. Like, you can't give him a complex at anything that comes out of him that is disgusting. Like he's just this innocent little being, he doesn't know. And so there was just, it just went everywhere. And so I've got it all on video and I was really, I had to have a sit down with Ben after and say, look, we have a child's friend that had a real issue going to the toilet for a long time. And I feel like they get this idea that it is gross really early on because we react to them going, ugh, ugh.

Josh: Do you then get worried though that you're going to fuck him up? Like I feel like That's so much pressure that all these little things could be the reason why he can never go to the toilet. Like, it's pretty hyperbolic, isn't it, Stace?

Stacey: Well, I don't even know what hyperbolic really means, but no, I don't.

Josh: It's just a bit extreme. If all of a sudden he doesn't go on the toilet, are you going to bring up with Ben? It's like, you know, that on day one, this is why.

Tommy: No, I think I see Bodhi when he's like, as they get a bit older. And he's pooped his pants and he understands exactly what's happened because he's not wearing a nappy. And if— and like, they can— they get a bit shy and it's like, where do you even learn how to be shy from? And so rather than saying at that point when he's, you know, 2 and a half, 3, you're like, oh, don't poo your pants, you know, you like— that's hard because then they're— at one minute you want to sort of help them understand, the other side, other side, you want to be compassionate and say, it's all good, you know, next time you and let's do it in the toilet. But it's, yeah, they're small sort of leaps that the kids are making, right? Like Brody hasn't pooed in his pants in months, which is amazing. He doesn't wet himself as much unless we've just left him in front of Netflix because we're on Friday night drinks with the Gronk Squad. And then he's upstairs and comes down and says, I've pissed myself.

Josh: Why don't you give him the iPad and the toilet?

Tommy: And then that's just bad parenting at that point. As I'm doing a tequila shot, as I'm doing tequila, I look over over and he's pissed himself.

Stacey: I did a Sophia Osola last week too. Oh, did you?

Tommy: Did you? First one back?

Stacey: Yeah, yeah. I haven't been at like at all. It was just a bit of a stupid thing. And we, um, very, very good friends with our neighbors, so we can actually— our back door is their back door, and we can socially just like— it's very comfortable for us to just sit on the end of our stoop and then sit on the end of their stoop, and we just have exactly as you guys.

Josh: So lucky that you have a few drinks. But then when nightmare otherwise, wouldn't it?

Stacey: Oh my God. Well, you just wouldn't. It's Sydney, so everybody just doesn't speak, so you wouldn't really notice because that's just basically what Sydney is like anyway. But we are lucky. They are the greatest people and incredible support and just really great mates, but also very good neighbors. Like, I'll pick that up for you, or, hey, I just made Anzac biscuits with gluten-free flour. Do you want some? I'm like, eff yes, I do. So yeah, I can leave a snippet for you if you want.

Josh: That was a great testimonial. We cut that up and send it to them. Yeah, that'd be nice.

Stacey: They don't need it. They don't need it. They're that good. They don't give a shit.

Tommy: No, they're actually in the room right now.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, Housemates. Yeah.

Tommy: Oh God. And, um, has it changed, Stace? I remember you posted on Insta this week, uh, that video. I saw it. I was like, I know this. And it was you and your mates dancing when we went away. That was Easter time, like, I don't know, 7, 6 years ago. But we went away and you were doing a dance with your mates. How times have changed. Wow.

Stacey: And you were filming then. You were filming then. And your— sorry, go on. Your actual quote, you know, when things just in your friendships group just really stick, they're not anything that's that amazing or whatever. But Tommy, took the video of us just copying a Beyoncé dance and my friend cracks it at me for being in her line of view. Like I'm blocking her chance to shine. She's like, "Where's your position? Where is your position?" And it's just kind of one of those things in our group that every year it comes up, we just piss ourselves. But there's a line from Tommy that's like, "We're on." Like, that's his line to say we're filming. And it is just quoted all day, every day across all of our mates. Like, we're on, we're going, we're on, the cab's here, we're on, we're on. Like, it's just one of those things that's just stuck. Even my— even Ben says it. He didn't even know us then. He's like, we're on for dinner. Like, it just has always been a thing. So it's hilarious. So you weren't really in the video, but you've definitely, um, definitely had your mark.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Can you actually go back and tag me in it, please? Uh, get a Get a credit, little movie symbol by name. Hopefully it takes off.

Stacey: A'kweron.

Josh: Has there been anything, Stace, that's like completely different, like a misconception from what you thought parenting was going to be like to what it actually is?

Stacey: Um, I don't know. I don't think I went in with too many expectations. Um, I think the thing that's helped me not have too many kind of confusing moments or stressful moments has been because I really wanted to be led by him. And since we didn't know who he was, what he would want, what he would be like, what kind of baby, I really try and get myself to go back and not try and figure anything out. And even through my pregnancy, and I think that is absolutely a testament to the fact that we had to go through our fertility treatment, we really didn't have much option other than to surrender and wait for this child to decide when it wanted to come. And that was such a very big part of what had us work through that time as strongly as we could. So I am super proud of the fact that we were able to use a lot of the things we learned in that time for now. So I guess it does connect and, and we just wait to see what Bryn shows us. And so if I— because we We live like that and we try and parent like that. It doesn't always happen, but I wait to see what he presents to me as opposed to me guessing or leading him. There isn't a whole lot that I anticipated or thought of because I made sure that I take not a back seat, but make sure that I'm the second beat. Like, he beats first and I kind of then respond to him. So if you think like that, you don't really have too much time to think about what it would be because you have no idea because you've surrendered the, um, that path to him telling you. Does that make sense?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, 100%. Because if you, if you had all these expectations of what it was going to be like, they're only conjured up in our mind anyway. Because if you haven't experienced something, you don't have the information, you haven't felt it or embodied it. So it's a, it's almost a good approach for, you know, not everything in life, but a lot of stuff. It's like, you know, letting go of that needing to totally understand every element of what's about to happen.

Josh: I guess you can stop the projection as well, like projecting what you think should be happening or how they should be responding.

Stacey: Yeah. And I think I tried to do that in so many areas of my life, and I would be able to achieve it sometimes, but it was very hard. Like, the whole process of surrendering is incredibly hard, and I I like control. That's definitely something that helps me feel safe. So I would have worked really hard on constantly trying to let go of that. And I don't think I really was able to execute it as well as I have been since Brynn came along. But more so, when you're a person or a couple that is really ready to have a baby and has dreamt about becoming a parent for most of their life, I was definitely one of those people, not a person that was like, I'm not maternal. Always really wanted it. When you come to a place where you have to accept that that may not happen for you, there is no greater surrender than that, in my, in my experience. So, you know, I had to really come to the idea that this has to be the way it's going to be. And if that means that we, we end up with a child that's not biologically ours, you know, we had to open up to all possibilities and surrender our any expectation of how this is going to go, because when something means that much to you, yeah, it's too— it's too extreme for you to live your life hanging on to that. It's giving too much weight to something, you know. It was so important to us, but on the flip side, we had to let go of it. So the most important thing that I'd ever wish for was the thing that I absolutely had to let go of in order for me to figure out how to get it. And So, you know, I definitely think that that attitude early on has helped me jump into parenthood that way. If I hadn't have gone through that, then I don't think I would have been as successful trying to do that now that— than we have been.

Josh: What— like, how has the relationship changed with you and Ben?

Stacey: Yeah, that's hard. That's tricky because you go through different experiences. You're both parents. But you're no longer a couple in something. So you, you are— that's probably a bit extreme, but you know what I mean? Like, I— you, you're both becoming parents, but you as parents isn't the same experience. So the coupledom is kind of broken a bit because you— I am Bryn's mother, Ben's Bryn's father, and those things are very different things even though you're both parents, particularly at this point. We both offer and do different things in the picture. And it's really opened up a whole big conversation around, you know, that those real primal things too, that like inner masculine and inner feminine and what he feels like, you know, how he's reacted with, you know, stress and sleep deprivation and, and energy levels and how I've reacted to losing a lot of my independence and also sleep deprivation. But luckily for me, breakfast radio definitely trains you to do that. So, um, it's been really tricky because your relationship doesn't just change. For a while there, you're almost kind of individuals with this person. And I didn't really understand that until that happened, that we are very different entities in this family dynamic when it comes to him. And I'm sure over time that will slowly— that gap will close a little bit more. And especially after I stopped breastfeeding, it it will close, but I think there will always be a separate thing. You can even find yourself— it's not getting competitive, but you're almost like, "He laughed at me," and then Ben will be like, "Oh, he laughed at me yesterday." Just ridiculous things that you find yourself saying. Even when Ben— he did a game that I invented the other day where he was standing and sitting. Get your own games, mate. Like, who? Why? Why do people— why am I saying this? And so all of a sudden you dream this family picture and you are a family and it is the greatest thing to see the person you love and trust and choose to go into that part of your life. It's just the absolute greatest and it takes you to this whole other level. You know, everyone's like, ah, sex after birth, but it's been unreal because you're just obsessed with each other in a different way. But I didn't plan for it to feel at times so separate, even though it is so unifying.

Josh: Is there a unified version though? Like, is there— like, I know you talk about that future getting close together, but how can you sort of join it all up? Or what is that sort of joint entity?

Stacey: There's a locking. There's a locking and a stability and a strength. That comes from, you know, I come from a home where my mum and dad broke up quite young and those kinds of things have always felt a little bit, you know, that home security life has always felt a little bit flimsy. You know, it feels so rock solid in my home and we are so on the same team in terms of our values and the way we want to do things. And there is a— it is 100% a unity that is very unspoken. And I think a lot of it also comes from birth and what you go through from that birth experience, it just— you just have this complete— respect isn't even the word. Like, it's a— there's something that changes in the DNA of your relationship that makes it this kind of— it's like just the tree trunks, the roots are just grounded so much deeper in the ground. It is— it's a different kind of security that I've never— I've never— I don't remember, like, I don't really remember feeling like this. It's even in other parts of my family life, it feels very incredible. It's an awesome thing. So there's that. It's just different.

Tommy: I also remember feeling the empathy for relationships that also don't make it in those times, right? So it's like the challenge is so huge and the friction. I was thinking like for the relationships that have, you know, maybe gotten— fallen pregnant when they weren't that serious and they've decided to push through. And so I almost like, I kind of get it, right? I get that the, it could be too much. It could be, you know, the, the, the internal, the trust isn't there, or just many things playing a part of it and sleep and, you know, it, but there is a, there is that bond there, but I do, I do see how it, not everyone gets through it.

Stacey: Yeah. I think, um, I think for me, parenthood needs to be such a choice. And I think this has got to be something to do with my next book, because I think so many of us choose the next step in life. And for many people, that happens to be parenthood, and that marries quite well because it just also happens that you really want it. And I'm not saying that people that have kids don't want them, but maybe some people do have them earlier than what they, they they could if they had— if they think about their life a little bit more as to what is my timeline that's true to me and not the timeline that we're told to have. And I think Ben and I very much lived in our life. Ben is in his 40s, so he's, you know, from a traditional perspective, an older parent. And I'm certainly not in my 20s having my first baby. And so we were very, very sure that this was the time for us. And I don't think you're ever 100% certain, but we kind of were, especially being challenged the way we were. So I think there's something else in that is that, you know, it's such a power in making a decision to become a parent and being, being in that decision because it's about you wanting to not be about yourself and not becoming a parent because you want the love of a kid or you want something from them. We wanted to be parents because I was so sick to death of talking about myself. I wanted to have a whole life that was not about me. I had spent so much time, and still do spend so much time, telling my storey and, and talking about myself that I was so ready to completely invest and give something that had nothing to do with me, you know. And so I think that helps when you are choosing because you're choosing from truth as opposed to choosing because, okay, so we save for a house, we get married, and then that's the next thing to do.

Josh: Well, it's the common narrative, right? Like, I feel like that's where you can get stuck is if you just think, I've got to do this, I have to do this, and then the whole biological clock or whatever obviously gets people stressed out. Do you think— what are some of the questions that you think people should ask themselves to sort of unlock whether having a kid or being a parent is right for them?

Stacey: I think the question needs to be about— oh, I, I'd even say it's got to be more of a feeling. If you're feeling like you want to do that because you want to be given something as an initial reason, you need to ask yourself whether it's the right time. Because as much as they give you so much, they take just as much. And I don't think that that's necessarily a good or a bad thing if you've asked this question or not, but just going back from Tommy's comment about how people don't make it, I do think it can be more challenging if you are going into it first because you're looking to receive before you're looking to give. So if the first feeling that comes up is the reason that you want to have a baby is to receive, then I'm not saying you shouldn't have a baby, but you do need to understand that that may— you may find the times where you're not receiving much more challenging than if you came to the decision by wanting to give first. Does that make sense?

Josh: Examples of— so like you're talking about like serving something other than yourself. What would, what would be some examples examples of the mindset of trying to receive or having a kid for, like to be able to receive?

Stacey: Well, it's pretty, people want, I don't know, this feels a little bit judgmental. I don't know if, I don't know. I think we all have a right to receive nice things and a right to receive love and joy and connection. And giggles and happiness. But I think it's like whether you— this is going to be controversial, but sometimes I think whether you're a dog or a cat owner says a lot about you because for different reasons. But cats are obsessed with you a bit. You think? I think dogs are also a bit.

Josh: Aren't dogs more? Cats don't give a fuck about you, Stace.

Stacey: There's ways you can look at it, but cats can get a bit possessive. Like they get a bit like, She's mine, like don't touch her, or you're my bitch, or there's like this energy that's kind of like, you know, like, like there's just this real intensity of need. It's almost like a codependent relationship, whereas dogs, I feel like, are way less codependent. Even though they're dumbasses, I still think that there's a chance that you could come home and be out for 6 hours and they don't really know if it's 1 hour, or I think they do, but you know what I mean, you know. You know, I'm kind of rambling, but you get a bit of an idea.

Josh: I reckon you've got this completely wrong, Stace. I think that dogs are more for people who like receiving. I think if you're a dog person, you're more into that, whereas if you are with a cat, you just need to be happy with the fact that you're going to feed them, but then they're going to do whatever the fuck they want.

Stacey: Yeah, I get what— I know what you mean because they're independent, but I'm not really talking about receiving. I'm more talking about that codependency, right? So, going back to the question about babies, I think often people need to feel needed. Yeah.

Josh: I mean, isn't that why you like a— Like, would that be like the whole going to the games thing where it's like, you know, peekaboo was something that I had with Brynn, like, you can't play peekaboo or whatever. Like, is that— Where's that coming from?

Stacey: So, that's coming from competitiveness. That's got nothing to do with dependency. That's a complete conversation between my husband and I. It's got nothing to do with the poor child. But it's more, I think, I don't know, I think that there is an ability for us to dive into things to feel something. And I would look at parenthood as really being a motivator to start from a place of you wanting to feel it for them as opposed to them feeling it for you.

Josh: It's like everything though, don't you think, TJ? Like we talk about that with like work, like you don't start a podcast or do all of this if you want to make money or receive, like you've got to do it based on—

Stacey: But Josh, so many people do.

Josh: Yeah.

Mason: Yeah.

Stacey: Like you are the minority.

Josh: It's not the most glamorous role.

Stacey: And that's why it's doing— 100%. You've got no idea the amount of people that message me saying, I want to do that, you know, and there's no judgement to that. There is a very different motivator behind most people doing this kind of work, and you look like you're one of those people to a lot of people as well. You know what I mean? Like, we all are put in the same box. The only way we know who's the difference is behind the scenes and getting to know people and their true intentions. Mostly we all look like we're doing it.

Josh: It's being steadfast, like, to the point— to your point on if you're doing it to receive, then all of a sudden it becomes very hard to be in a place of service. Whereas if you're like service first, then anything that you receive is bonus. And that's, that's how I feel.

Stacey: And I need to just also add to that, I think you need to constantly cheque yourself. Like, I don't think that when you decide one day that all of a sudden you're going to give first before you receive, that then that's just your lifelong, you know, it's locked in for life. A year later, you may be finding yourself in the same boat doing the same kind of work work and now having expectation that you didn't have 12 months ago. You have to constantly cheque yourself in that. You know, it's not something that's just set.

Tommy: You build a muscle around the giving part and then asking or, you know, receiving or in terms of creating something before you've even asked, you know, for anything in return, right? I think people get very good at being able to just give, give, give, and it can sometimes come at the detriment of the person just giving, right?

Josh: What's that whole put on your face mask or whatever, you know, put on your oxygen before you help the other people. It's like if you're, if you're always giving as a parent, if you're like, you know, you see parents that are like that where it's like they're absolutely destroyed because they're doing everything that for their kids and they're, but they, they then lose their identity and then probably in the long term they actually end up doing more harm than good.

Stacey: 100%. I wrote about this in my book because my mom was a single mom and she was very much celebrated in that, that she was— she would say quotes and words to us that, "You kids are everything to me. You're my life." You know, all those things. And that was very much— particularly as a woman, that's very celebrated. But actually, I had to really retrain that messaging to tell myself that I was worthy of self-love. Care and that I was worthy of putting money into my, I don't know, whatever, like into going to a therapist or studying this or taking a holiday. Like those kinds of things would take me a couple of goes for me to get my head around thinking I was worth any of them because my messaging system was told that, you know, that I wasn't, that you weren't necessarily, even though her intention was to give us everything. You know what I mean? But that's— but you kind of, you learn from example a lot of the time. So, yeah.

Josh: It's very complex though, isn't it? That's like, that's such a hard one because it's like, it's like anything. It's like a dessert. Dessert is delicious and can serve you. But if you have too much dessert, you know, you fuck shit up. You know, if we can learn anything from ISO, just you don't need—

Stacey: Sure, Brittany. That was a stretch, that one.

Josh: No, I had— we had Indian last night and there was a— we had the option of it was $48 for all the things separately, or you could get it in a meal deal for $43, but it came with dessert. And so we did the dessert. And so I had dessert on a weeknight. And so I'm just—

Tommy: Is that before shaving your head or after?

Josh: That was before shaving. I went straight and shaved my head just to feel a bit leaner, you know. It didn't help.

Tommy: Indian cuisine's fault that you shaved your head. Stace, yesterday we're talking about sticking to stuff, and, and it's almost like— and Josh, at one point you said, like, um, it was referencing sort of that accountability around doing the show at 4 PM, and, you know, we show up because people are here or whatever. And we were sort of talking about creating, and Josh, you'd stop doing your photos, and that was around the discussion your photos each day. But what have you found, Stace, in sort of working out why you've stuck at something and then trying to sort of reverse engineer it like we always, you know, try and be clever and work out how to then apply it to something else? Have you got a formula for sticking to either a creative practise or even, you know, a personal practice, exercise, meditation, these things?

Stacey: Like, like a discipline? You'd like an underlying discipline?

Tommy: Do you know what I mean?

Josh: Well, look at how long you did the podcast like Thinker Girls for and like even being able to whilst, you know, you're being a mum and all that sort of thing, still getting the podcast out, like even doing throwbacks and things like that.

Stacey: Well, p.s., I'm not recording any— Yeah, I'm not recording any new podcasts and I have an online person that's helping me, which I should also raise. Like, it's not, you know, I'm not sitting there on my phone shooting all this. Like, I've got somebody that's helping me do keeping that stuff afloat as well. But yeah, so from that perspective, I don't really feel like I'm kind of like she's just doing it. But yeah, I guess I am still committed. For me, I've always been motivated by feeling. So there is no real analytical kind of structure, PowerPoint presentation that I have around discipline. And that sometimes drives my hubby crazy because we are building different businesses and we have different ideas of businesses to build. And he definitely is much much more driven by that, that, you know, those kinds of benchmarks. Um, but I'm— I see myself as a bit more of a visionary person and a bit more of a feeler and what can look— be looked upon as a floater. And it's really taken me a couple of years to get some confidence in staying on the track I'm on. I think the last few years I really questioned whether that was somebody that was maybe a little bit naive, that maybe had to step up, be a bit more responsible, 'But I have fallen back on no, I don't. I've had success doing it that way.' And I am much more— I think that those types of structures work for people, but I think they're also structure, and I just don't really find that my best work is, is from a place of structure, essentially. So I've had to, on the flip side of that, stop beating myself up about having little structure, which has been my structure.

Josh: Yeah.

Stacey: So I've had to get off my own back about not having these, I think, I guess this idea of you need to do that by this point or you need to be accountable by this point. Funnily enough, when I take the pressure off myself to do that, I always show up.

Josh: Like I was saying, you cheque yourself at every stage, like, because the thing is you don't do things in the traditional way. I feel like even myself, that can happen where it's like you go on your own path, but then you can get those little voices around like, "Oh, you need structure," or "You need to be doing— You need to be up at this time," which can then derail all of that other work that you're doing.

Stacey: I think as well, when I feel really good about the work, I want to do it. And I'm like a machine. Like, you can't get in my way when I want to do something. So, I might as well focus on things that I can I want to do because it will be way more potent and powerful for me to get ahead doing it that way than it would for me to have a Google Doc with all my posts across the week. Look, through The Thinker Girls and that, we had a team so everyone's got different ways of working. It's different now that it's run by myself and I have my own. It's just me and anybody that wants to work with me comes into my my domain and they have to kind of work with how I want to work. When you work with a team or in a partnership, it's different. You've got to kind of have structure and a little bit of, I suppose, accountability so everybody feels like everyone's sharing the load. But even then, it was funny because both of us were very much similar from that perspective of being driven by loving to do it. So it's a funny one because I think I get so much more done by doing things that way than I would if I was to plan to do something too much. I just have to make sure that I'm really into it and that can be scary because maybe last year when I was trying to fall pregnant and was pregnant, I didn't have many ideas coming to me. I think I even said to you guys when we spoke last, I was really in the middle of things and that was very uncomfortable. Because I, I was so used to pushing, so used to creating, and nothing was coming because I was nesting and it was supposed to be that way. Now I cannot stop myself. I have 4 different domains in my cart at the moment. I am back, like, in a way that I need to watch how much I put out because I have a child now. But it comes and it will come, and I just had to trust that it would come again. And when I now go back into the place where I need to rest and it's not going to be there, I need to make sure, A, I've got savings and a backup in case that happens again and make sure that I've— that doesn't take too much of a dive in our lives. And B, I get off my own back and just give myself a break because I know in the times that I will work and when I am passionate about something, it is very hard to have somebody that that's more productive than me in my own way.

Josh: 97's doing such a good job just sitting there. Obviously, these conversations for a 20-year-old, you're not necessarily thinking all of these things, Evs. But what's a question?

Tommy: Josh, I think he was just looking at your head.

Stacey: He just can't stop looking.

Josh: I can't believe it.

Tommy: Casey in the comments said she can't stop looking at your head.

Josh: But Crystal and Jazz, no point in looking.

Stacey: Can I feed my child?

Josh: Like this? Yeah, sure. Yeah. This is the Cate Lambrouck moment. Do you remember that famous, the panel.

Stacey: He's crying, so I better tell Ben to bring him in.

Josh: Okay. Um, Sebs, have you got a question for Stace?

Mason: Um, yeah, I mean, it's— I guess it's around like, it's, it's like this idyllic thing that you've— yeah, it's an experience that you're going through. And so I think some people probably have an idea of how amazing it is, and it doesn't sometimes hit those realities or expectations. But I guess, like, what are some of those small little things that are just like the things that you love the most that aren't probably like the big things that everyone looks forward to?

Stacey: And when you say idyllic, are you talking about my, my work life?

Josh: Mace?

Tommy: That's a cute kid. Jesus Christ. More around with the little one. So cute.

Stacey: All right, let's get to the question in a second, but you want to say hi, Bren?

Tommy: Oh my God. Hello.

Stacey: Hello. Very hungry, been very patient, haven't you?

Tommy: We're on.

Stacey: We're on.

Josh: Peekaboo.

Stacey: All right, let me just attach my— let me attach myself.

Josh: Yeah, you're fine.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. Are you saying, Sev, just for people that might like— because I think, I don't know the percentage, but there's a lot of women that have a pretty horrible experience around the whole childbirth thing. Like, Amy didn't have an ideal situation.

Stacey: So you're saying to me, he's so interested, um, this is a different age now, like he gives a shit about things. There's no nip, there's no nip, guys, is there?

Josh: No, you're all good. This is very good.

Stacey: I realised that as I said that you'd have to check.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Stacey: So I was like, oh, that's probably not a That's not a good thing to say. Like everyone's naturally like, "Oh, whoa, hang on, what am I doing?" Yeah, so are you saying, yeah, in terms of a lot of the things that I'm saying are quite idyllic, but it may not be, the journey may not be that, or it may not be that way? Sorry.

Tommy: Yeah, that's all good.

Mason: No, I think it's a little bit of that, but I think like you look forward to having a kid and having all these special moments, but there are those small little things that you don't really think about that may stand out or that may actually bring more joy than the big things that you're, I guess, looking forward to. Are there any sort of like small things that are really enjoyable moments or experiences that you thought you wouldn't enjoy or thought you wouldn't look forward to?

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Stacey: I try— I know it sounds a little bit cliché, but I try and live like that all the time because I find that I am a bit of a— I think I am a content— I've always been— I fucking hate the word content creator, but I've always been a person that's weirdly stepped in and out of my life. Like, I kind of snapshot things. When you're, when you're in radio, you're constantly thinking of your life as content, right? And then I stepped away from that, but what it did give me the ability to do was still snapshot moments. So it may not be something that's topical, but I really do have this ability to kind of almost take a bit of an airplane. Like if Ben and I just randomly— so last night I've been stressed and writing, like, you know, writing the book and we're trying to do a bit of everything. And Ben just put on a song and we danced in the lounge room. And I get teary thinking about it because that's my life. That's the moments. That's what I wanted. That's the things that are incredible. Not necessarily the, I mean, the eloping and the glitter jumpsuit and, you know, the Thinker Girls and being on air and all those kinds of fancy things. They're all great. But, you know, putting an '80s track on and just belting it out. But now we're whispering because we have a kid that's asleep. It just, I have this ability to kind of go, like, take it in my memory and go, I think I often just say, "I'm so grateful," in my head. So moments like that happen all the time in this joint. But I do also think on the flip side of that, I think you have to make them. I don't think they all just come so naturally. And I think we wait for these moments to happen in our life. And of course, when he smiles for the first time, or, you know, if there's still a moment where Ben will say, "You look really pretty," or, You know, someone sends you flowers and there's moments in your day or your life that come up without you planning and they're beautiful. But I do also think that so much of our life, we have been told that so much is supposed to happen to us. And I am by the true belief system that most of it we need to make happen ourselves. And I'm sorry if that's, you know, taking out the romantic part of the way we look at life, but we can choose to continue to live in this denial about the way life works, or we can start to be really honest with ourselves and go, you know, sometimes those moments you need to create. And do I want to have had to remind my husband that Mother's Day is coming up in a couple of weeks? No, I don't know, because we're told that he's supposed to just know. But why would I get in my own way? He just— I didn't even need to necessarily say it, but I was like, it's the first one and it may not be on his radar, you know. So just It's not that I've necessarily created anything, but it's just also not looking at everything like we have to wait for it to come to us. So those moments—

Josh: It's like flipping it into positivity, right? Like you have the option of like expecting the fuck up or expecting things not to work out, or you can be like, there's a little thing that I can do right now, a little perspective shift, a little thing to actually make it happen. I think that makes a lot of sense.

Tommy: I think even if transferable to your own life, —sorry, Stace—to your own life. Like thinking— you go.

Stacey: No, no, go on.

Tommy: I've got to feed my baby. No, no, you go.

Stacey: You go, Stace. I think it's just important. Like I kind of in this house now, it's been really early on for us to, you know, have this family unit. But I already know this kind of idea of how I could resist really quickly being the memory maker. I think women often feel like they often are the person that has to do that. But I'm really trying hard to make sure that I take pride and be really proud of that and really take that quite seriously because exactly as your question, Mace, like those moments are the things that actually really matter. I just don't think we— and we should take them super seriously. And when women do it, it should be acknowledged and really appreciated. But also, we should acknowledge the power in it ourselves instead of constantly waiting for someone to say thank you or whatever. The moment is thank you a lot of the time. You know, the moment experiencing it and putting your effort, putting effort into it is doing that. You alright, buddy? Yeah, it's a perspective shift.

Tommy: Last night, Bodhi, "Will you play with me, Daddy?" And he wanted me to come down and play little trucks. I was like, "Oh." I didn't feel great. I couldn't be bothered. I was tired. And it's at that moment, right? It's like hobbies, the person who you think you are or the things you want to be. Taking a kid on an adventure because you think you're the adventure guy is annoying at times, right? But then like— That's the service bit though, isn't it? Yeah. Putting someone before yourself.

Stacey: And I think, mate, with the— Yeah, but also with those idyllic things, it could be not about a kid, it could be about You know, you feeling like, I don't know, like I can't wait to be asked out on a date in this particular way. Or, you know, I really would wish my friend would be better at buying birthday presents. It's just dumb shit, you know, that you kind of worry about. It's just, it's not necessarily that you need to go and do those exact things yourself. But I think we do need to be committed to putting in. It is actually a bit of a theme that we've spoken about, Joshua, like with the giving. Like it's kind of that. Idea around being open to creating memories for ourselves and not necessarily waiting for them to come to us. It also seems like— And I think we'd like this idea that they should.

Josh: —of scepticism as well. Like, I think that it's so easy to be sceptical and to think, I guess if you even think about like the stuff around, what's that whole, the, I think, Stacey, You've gotten into it around you think something, like The Secret type of stuff. Like if you look at The Secret from— The Law of Attraction. The Law of Attraction. Like if you look at it from the very basic level, it's just like have a positive attitude and bring the positivity from your end, which I guess if you bring the positivity from your end, I feel like you're way more likely to see it returned rather than looking at everything as like—

Stacey: Well, it's physics. It's science. Like when you put something out, it's likely that— I don't know, I've actually seriously thought about researching it. But like actually going back to uni because I feel like this is a part of the conversation I have that I often don't really understand, but I trust it because I've seen it happen. But it is, you know, from an energy perspective, you attract what you put out. And it's so even though you might not be asking somebody out on a date, but that's what you want. If you are putting out nice things, there's a good chance that some version of that date that you're hoping happens will come back because of what you did somewhere else. I don't know. It sounds exactly as you say, really cliché and quite surf-like at the end, but I really do believe it, like believe that it works.

Josh: It seems like it's working for you. It's so good seeing you happy and healthy and relaxed as well. It's great.

Stacey: Did I used to not be as relaxed?

Josh: No, I think, yeah, you used to. I used to feel like I used to have to be careful with what I would say potentially. Really?

Stacey: A lot of people have said that to me. Like, I've done other people's podcasts as opposed to them be on mine, and a lot of people have said, you're really different. I feel different in ways, but I'm always intrigued as to what that is like for other people, like people, you know what I mean? Like it's weird. You do so much self-development, but you can't really tap into what other people's perceptions of you are.

Josh: Maybe it's a different— and maybe I've changed as well, but it feels like a difference in intention. Like when we ask a question, you're thinking, "This is coming from a place of curiosity. What could this mean? Let's work it out." out. Whereas I think potentially, especially because some of your ideas aren't necessarily mainstream or whatever, it could come across sometimes as like, oh, you know, like that we're battling out on different value points where I think like we can talk about this shit, work it out.

Tommy: You actually said it yourself, I, you know, I dealt with you in the time that you were under pressure you know, hadn't had Thinker Girls find the success it ended up having. And there is a level of anxiety that came out of it. Intensity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Intensity is the word you used. And yeah, I get that. I experienced that version of you. And it's, I think it is, it's just a, it's a, I mean, you've got to go through these things, right? It was you then.

Stacey: I think as well. You're not you now. Yeah. And they're all the things on the outside, but the inside part was that I was trying to work on myself, you know, trying to get comfortable with being on my own, trying to get confident. Like, I think a lot of the confidence that everybody saw was a lot of bravado to survive and get the jobs that I wanted, but they weren't necessarily— it wasn't necessarily self-worth. It was more self-confidence, which again, I write about this in the book. They're really different. And it got me to a certain point and it gets you to a certain point. But, you know, you've got to fill the cup from the, like, the deep bottom bit. And I think that just took me time. So I think a lot of the changes isn't necessarily about the external stuff. A lot of it just comes from you. Yeah. Getting, getting a bit more comfy with who you actually are. And so these conversations, like you were saying, Josh, you know, there is no real right or wrong, they're open. I think that happens when you get more comfortable with your take on it, because you're not really that concerned if somebody agrees with you or disagrees with you. You're more confident in it. And everybody has a right to have their versions of things, but it doesn't, it doesn't kind of jilt you if somebody else—

Josh: You're not defending your position, you're just, you're just describing how you feel. And so, your podcast— Couple Goals, you're saying that that's the one where you and Ben talking about the whole birthing experience. When's that coming out?

Stacey: Oh, God, who knows. When we can be bothered editing it, I guess. Probably— thanks for the plug. But yeah, no, maybe a couple of weeks. There's a teaser at the moment and I think we'll get to it when we get to it. I think that's where we're at and that's what I think back to kind of doing this kind of work with him being so little, there is no— I don't care if— before it was like, oh, we've got to be consistent with what we do, and that's not my priority right now. So if I am creating content, it's because it's completely fitted into his life. So we'll get there when we get there, maybe a couple of weeks, maybe a month, who knows.

Tommy: Stace, I like to think about— imagine if this time coronavirus happened happened at different parts of our lives. And I was thinking about, imagine if we were on air and this happened. Like at the time, like I like to think—

Stacey: I would have loved being bunkered down with you, TJ. Like we would have just, because you're so creative and you're so open to ideas, we would have just created a whole land. We probably would have been massive successes still working together because we would just been like, we're gonna do this and we're gonna somehow get a plane And then somehow, you know, like, I would have not found that to be awful.

Tommy: Yeah, that would have been pretty fun. It's so funny, like, you could either— like, I'm grateful that it's happened now at this point, but I mean, that's just the story. I'm the advantageous storey I'm spinning at the moment, which I guess is a good thing. I'm glad it's happened now, like, at all points of my life.. And I'm sure there's people with the opposite version of that, which is massively unfortunate. But it's, yeah, life is weird.

Stacey: Yeah, our experience is that we have a hashtag, which I haven't spoken about too publicly because I try and— or when I say publicly, I mean on my Instagram, like, but I try and be very conscious and sensitive to others. But we have a hashtag that we just do as an absolute joke between between a couple of mates and us of flourishing in iso because a few of us have found— and I think media as well, you know, a few of my husband works for the ABC and sometimes you can kind of start to question what you're doing and whatever, but a lot of the work he's done has been really pivotal to kind of informing people, not necessarily just, you know, beating stuff up or trying to get a clickbait thing. Like working for a company like that has been been incredibly important for people to actually get information. So just checking yourself and checking what you're doing and how important it is. I know that I've certainly had lots of people, you know, contact about coaching or working on themselves. So we've really felt like a lot of the things we do have really allowed us to feel good about what we choose to do every day. And then also we have this little person in our lives at the moment. Funnily enough, and we also just sold a property right at the right time, like we just kind of like, shit, we're doing well. That feels really guilty. Like, I feel really guilty. We're doing quite well. But, you know, it is what it is. And I completely empathise with people that are not. But our experience is that, like I said, I feel like we've been built to kind of be quite self-sufficient and make sure that we feel happy with how— what we do day to day and So when these things come up, it doesn't— it hasn't maybe jolted us as much as a lot of people that are asking themselves the same questions and getting very different answers, you know.

Josh: Makes sense. Thanks, Stace. We've had a bunch of comments, people loving the episode. Crystal says, "Guys, this is one of my favourite episodes." A lot of chatter around the snot sucker as well. There's an electronic Snot sucker that you hear, I guess.

Stacey: Where can I see this on? Where is this live?

Josh: Yeah, you just go to our youtube.com/thedailytalkshow and it's got all the chat there as well. But we're doing a 24-hour stream on Friday 7:00 AM to Saturday 7:00 AM. And so, we're preparing for that, but Jasna's asked in the comments, because we've organised merch that we decided on Sunday and we've been organising it all so we can get it express post to everyone for Friday. So Jasna was asking, are they getting printed right now? Yes, Jasna. We will chat with Scooter, Scooter Derek this afternoon with an update. No, the real Scooter. Easy, easy streets. Scooter Derek.

Tommy: No, no, no. We'll get an update on the show from Desmond. It'll be happening.

Josh: We need to, Sev's DHL, we need to contact them. We need to get, do you have any updates on logistics?

Mason: No updates on logistics yet, no.

Josh: Okay. Well, I think we can make—

Stacey: God, this is a scary proposition considering Australia Post's delivery delays right now.

Josh: And so what we're thinking is DHL and we'll actually drop it off to the depot We've got 3 orders in WA, 2 orders in Queensland, 7 orders in New South Wales, and then the rest in Victoria.

Stacey: New South Wales representing.

Josh: A lot of New South Wales. And so we will have to work something out for the Melbourne ones. I don't think the couriers, maybe we have to, I had the idea, Seb is on his learners at the moment. I thought maybe he could go in my i30 and I could supervise. He could get his hours up and we could drive around, do some deliveries. You gotta cheque your insurance first. I love it. Yeah, yeah, that's the problem. Bree's gonna definitely bring that up as the first thing. But what's the worst that could happen, right?

Stacey: Well, yeah, you just crash a car. No one's on the roads anyway.

Josh: You're not gonna hurt anyone. Yeah, should be fine. And we'll do it all in sort of suburban areas where you feel more comfortable. We could go to Showbaker's place in Morrigan.

Tommy: Love it. What a little— oh, I love him, he's so cute.

Stacey: Where are we, Britt? It's terrifying how into this he is. Screens, just loves them. Yeah, yeah, but just himself, and he just has a lot of eye contact with the camera, like the down the barrel. Like, he's just— it's scary. And everyone's like, what do you expect? And I'm like, well, there's only room for one in this joint. Don't get ahead of yourself.

Josh: So funny. Thanks, Stace.

Stacey: Have a great rest of your day. Thank you so much, guys. Hey, I'll have to tune in if I'm feeding him, like, in the morning on the live thing. It'll be something to watch.

Josh: Yeah, or 24 hours there all day.

Tommy: We'll be there all day and night, early mornings.

Josh: Good luck with that. Thanks, Stace. Awesome. It's The Daily Talk Show, guys. Uh, you can watch youtube.com/thedailytalkshow, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify. You can listen at all those locations. Otherwise, we'll see at 4 PM for the live stream on the YouTube channel. See you then, guys.

Tommy: See you guys.

Mason: Bye.