#247 – Around $97,500 In Debt/

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Wait a minute, cross face.

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conversation, sometimes

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worth recording with Josh Janssen

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and Tommy jacket. It's the daily Talk Show Episode 247. Matthew Vela

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back again. It's Sydney. How long are you in Sydney for?

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I'm in Sydney until January 4, and then we're out. Yeah.

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Nice. How many times have you been to Australia?

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You know, this is my fourth time. I've been here for three weddings. Really? Yeah. And then one was for holiday visit. Yeah. All Natalie's friends. She's ready.

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You guys was having a crush waiting. Yeah,

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exactly.

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Big commitment to come back. Like you see the LA to Sydney flight as something is like super life isn't because I know a lot of Americans like bro. So far away where you live? Yeah,

1:02
it's the LA is not as bad as the

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got a bit of bamboo. Bamboo on my mic. So good.

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The New York trip was tough, because that's like 23 hours, two flights. And the entire like you're getting your sleep schedule back is really tough. But now having been in Sydney for a couple of days, I feel like I'm already on my schedule. I feel like I'm like into my routine. And I don't get too tired at night. So I think like the LA difference is not as bad

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daylight savings and stuff. I think it all lines up pretty nicely. Yeah, yeah,

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exactly. It's only five hour time difference. Although it is a day and a half ahead. It's five hours in terms of your circadian rhythm.

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But I also think people who say I didn't get jet lag there are souls. Yeah,

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because I who doesn't? Yeah, people who say circadian rhythm are also

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Matt calls me a shit head for saying circadian rhythms like what do you always call that again? Is that what it's called? Is that I guess yeah, it's like you're just your natural rhythm of sleep.

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ever done like melatonin? Yeah,

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we do. I mean, you guys are the melatonin. It's like hard to come by here. You have to get a prescription I really don't own it. But yeah, cuz that makes her mom makes her bring like bottles and that actually might be illegal.

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We asked you earlier Did you declare have to declare anything

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to the country? No, no, we have just the melatonin but we didn't declare it

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Yeah, it's also expensive as fuck does it actually work? Yeah,

2:34
you know it works not the Melatonin is not expensive. I meant mostly just traveling on it's pretty damn affordable. But the the Melatonin is good, but it does a tolerance it goes away. And it's typically only good for travel. Like if you're trying to implement it every single day. It's not going to make much of a difference in the long run. Right?

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just describe what you're saying.

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I got It's amazing. We have like local fauna.

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Is that birds

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yet? No, it's it's up there with

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nature channel

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where we're on the Sydney Harbour near the Opera House. This is like the Botanical Gardens of Sydney. Those birds also known as sky rats, and being chicken chicken. Yeah, yeah, they've been garbage been rats.

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I actually the other day. When I was in Sydney, I was filming them from like, for a part of my video. And then somebody came by me and said ugly fucking bird.

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look kind of cool, but

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ya know there. What would you what would this same Bay maybe it's like, it's like a pigeon.

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So what does it mean America?

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No, no, not in look at America rose. So in like, yeah,

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it's so annoying because the crows are

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areas hell. I don't know. I'd say like, yeah,

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now I maybe don't even have it. Yeah,

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well, we have crows in LA, like, creepy as hell, the black.

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They're big. And there were a few of them that I think that they were following me around like from street to street and it was sketchy their YouTube followers that are stalking you.

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Like in a crow outfit.

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I when I was growing up, my mom told me that Santa had birds and the birds were always watching as a way of making sure that I was keep being good. And the crows for whatever reason there was heaps of crows in my primary school and I always think that they were watching to make sure the light runs deep. Yeah, that's rough. Dude. Do you know any family members that are like out from the shell thing? We heard about Elf on the show? That Elf on the Shelf? Is this magical elf around Christmas time? Yeah, and he's doing all these crazy things. You guys don't know glad that we're doing a bit of elf banter. It isn't even Christmas anymore guys. Well past

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boxing Yes. Boxing Day. So do you have Boxing Day in the States? We don't celebrate Boxing Day. What do you you

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guys celebrate buying a whole bunch of shit. We don't really sell. celebration. unboxing day test is a cricket match. here that's like epic

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mcg.

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So in terms of right I guess that's that's a ritual that is every year but then there's the sales the Boxing Day sales, which opens it like would have opened this morning like 5am some places just like

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Christmas deals deals deals over Christmas. Chad sim was doing like 30 something hour non stop like a shopping center was doing like non stop trading. That's just New York every night. But the I feel like Australia has a way of taking Americanisms or American holidays, but doesn't necessarily go the other way. We've gotten into black. Yeah, yeah. And then Cyber Monday

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is equivalent. I think of Black Friday I'd never heard a black friday until grown adult

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Yeah, it's probably more recent that it's come over here

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is Boxing Day in actual thing in the States, though.

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It's on all of our calendars. Yeah. Nobody knows what it means. What is boxing? Is that like for boxing, fighting, or who have no idea, I don't think most people have no idea what it is. And I don't know what is bought, like, what it's like, boxing up presence or something to return.

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I don't know what the deal that I could have something to do with the Elf on the Shelf now

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is as an expert podcast

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experts. I think it's maybe a British thing. I feel like it's got the British fine.

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It's right. Yeah,

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we do that very well in America.

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What's a weird thing that you're discovering around Australia? What some weird shit that we do.

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You know, I feel like people try to point out the differences. Because it's fun between Australia and America. You know, the waiters, the waiters in America, like they just they don't get it like Australia likes it. But then I hear it from both sides where some people are like the Australian, or American waiter is they're so quick. They're so happy. They're so cheerful. And then tips again, tips. But then I've also heard the opposite that it's like, you know what, just the Australians, they just that they just care more when they're waiting on people. Really? Yeah, that's what I've heard. But then also like, I just don't know who to believe anymore. And then it's also like, I just the work culture is definitely a big, I guess, pointed to the bait. Yeah. But I think that the spectrum is wide, so or so varied. And that like you will have the corporate culture of America. Yeah. Which can be kind of challenging to navigate. There's a lot of politics involved, that can be very stressful and demanding. And then you have an district. And then you have the startup culture and world, which is a little bit more laid back. He drink on Friday night. Happy Hour. Yeah.

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What is that? You wear hoodies, you wear hoodies? Yeah.

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It's like the same kind of things that people complain about. And the corporate structure of like being like, well, women could never get away with wearing a hoodie. You can do that in a startup. And I think anybody could get away with wearing a hoodie. Yeah. So it's like, it's very hard to make a blanket statement between even American culture in general versus another culture. So I just gave you the shiniest answer.

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I want to know like, when do you read Elf on the Shelf? Do you feel most out of place though? What feels like culturally there's going to be things where it's like for me going to Starbucks

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when you should take out your getting coffee before and you I don't know if you just look at me cuz you like, but you said to go to go to go where we say doing that Tai Chi,

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Tai Chi.

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Or even you would say, Bill I think

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you gotta check. Yeah,

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me check wouldn't really check. I think that's that's mainly the big difference is just like subtle language cues. And it takes a while to kind of pick up on it like the elbows and avocado toast or the next Sabo

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afternoon

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announced it rod if you have

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and, like I couldn't tell the first time were you trying to say

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I was trying to say afternoon I was trying to say the whole time. But I remember Matt and I were in IKEA. And I kid is just you guys don't have IKEA. Very tough store to get through. Absolutely. It's like it's a stressful new relationship. We always say that they should have like the you know, have a section for each thing in your home and they should just have like family therapy at the end of it and get through all your problems that you had that came up while through the store. But at one point we were going through and all we need to go to the dresses next. How's the the dresses there's they don't sell dresses here and why would you ever buy the dress at IKEA? Say No, we need to get the dresses let's go to the dresses. And then it was legit like a good minute, a solid minute and me being there. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. And then she said no the dressers and she was trying to say and I said okay, say dressers then say dresses. And it was the same. Identical there was absolutely no difference.

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So it's been tough.

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It's been tough on our relationship. The minimalism stuff given that were a day after Christmas and Boxing Day is all about buying shit. Everyone's got crap that I need right now. What what? What year? Was it that you decided that you were a hashtag? minimal,

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hashtag minimalist. It was I want to say 2010. I just graduated from college with $97,000 in debt. And graduations. Yeah, thank you. Maybe that's something that we do a little bit different. Yeah.

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It sounds like the perfect lie, though. Because hundred thousand would have sound bullshit. Like, yeah, full bullshit. But 97 you like, Ah, it's a very specific number. What was the breakdown of that cost? That was literally just us school. That was all student loan debt. Yeah, it was.

10:39
And it was categorized into different places that I had gotten borrowed loans from. But it also it's funny that you mentioned that because my brother has made one of those sound boards where you click a different thing, and it has a different sound on it of me. And it has I have said over the years 9596 97 and 100 never said 99 What is it? I'm almost certain it's 97. It comes from my memory of just being like, I'm pretty sure. The highest I remember being was like 97, five, something like I see things you actually, if you're not sure, and it's that much money, regardless of five, six or seven.

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Well, at that point, it doesn't matter. It feels like I guess the difference between 90 702 Are you talking about that such high number? Yeah,

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it was over 95,000. And that's all that matters. Really? You bought a car? Oh, yeah. Then I bought a brand new car, which was a key wasn't a nice car, but it was still a new car. And then I ended up being like $118,000 in debt. So how much was the cost of the car

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was about 20,000? Yeah. And so what was it? Because I feel like the states have a different model in the way they do car financing. Did you

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what was the deal? Anyone can get it? Yeah.

11:50
Well, I feel like also, there's a bunch of Uber drivers where it's like, Yeah, I just bought like six presses. And I've got my cousins old driving

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it. That's crazy.

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I got an entrepreneur, Josh,

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that is one thing I've heard like, maybe? Yeah, well, I think Australians don't you guys don't lease cars, right? Or like you don't finance cars, you generally will buy a used car.

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I feel like

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yeah, like, I feel like Normally, we don't really talk about like the monthly payment as the advertiser. Like from an advertising point of view where it seems like in the States, they'll be like, you can get a camera for $199 a month. Yeah, sort of the Is that how you bought your car? We were you saying the monthly repayment?

12:36
Now, I think I was a little bit more practical in that I just figured, okay, this is how much money it's gonna cost. And it's going to take five years until I'm able to pay it off. Yeah. So but I, you know, I kind of looking back on it, I definitely would not have bought a new car, right out of college with that amount of debt. Who do you blame for

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financial health entity? Yeah.

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Now with it. I mean, my parents weren't great with money. And I don't I don't blame them. For my knowledge, bad habits.

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I just don't know if I was ever taught good habits. Yeah. And I think that's the thing for most people is this, they just don't know what to do. And maybe we do see commercials for buying a new car or almost say is probably social peer pressure of seeing people, maybe they have more money or don't buying or getting the least car, everybody's going to college. So you feel that peer pressure to go to college as well to pay that debt to get all those student loans. And then it wasn't until I got out of college that I realized how trapped I was, having moved home having all this debt, not being able to live on my own, that I realized I needed to make a change. And I started looking at my finances. And that was when I found minimalism, which helped me to just re prioritize where I was focusing my time and where I was spending my money.

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Is it a moment of looking and finding some information going? on fact? Or? I mean, because when you're in a situation you're in debt, it's there's a lot of justification going on? This is your it's your reality. So is there a moment where you kind of have this Penny drop? moment, just like I need to get out? This is this is a solution? Yeah,

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I think I think there has to become a moment where you actually face it. Because I think for most people, especially with people in consumer credit card debt, they just don't even look at their bank accounts. They're afraid to even look to see what their next statement balance is.

14:28
Did you think about the debt much when you're going into college because I feel like in Australia, we have like hacks, and stuff like that, where it's like, Brady's paying back a small, like, HELP loan or whatever, which was like from when she was, did a course,

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remember the kick scene, when you earn over a certain

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amount of money? She wasn't even really thinking about it. But now like, money's going out of her pay each month to be able to pay it. Is it the same in the States? Or do you feel like you're more attached with no, this is how much it is? And you're going to have to pay it?

15:00
You think, oh, that's just a problem from future, Matt. You know what I mean? Like you don't think anything all I'm going to be making good money when I graduate. So but I'm really like, if you don't, or if you aren't proactive with it, and and you have the kind of debt that I had, you'd be paying that off until you're 40 plus years old.

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And that's kind of insane to people get mortgages whilst still having all the time. Yeah. Yeah.

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Does it contribute to you all like, so we have like a credit score here, and you can see how much debt you've got. And you'd have to declare that you have to declare your student debt in America, when going for a mortgage.

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You do have to do it. Like I think it factors into your credit score, and actually in a fucked up way, it probably makes your credit score better to have debt. Yeah, yeah. Which is the screwed up part where sure that you can pay it back so they can pay it back. And it's like a barroom. Oh, yeah. And there's a good kind of credit card utilization score, which is like the percentage of debt you have versus what you're paying off.

15:56
Australia has something really different. Because I know I remember I read I think it was roommates. 80s. I'll teach you how to be rich. And he's sort of advice around getting credit cards doesn't necessarily translate to the Australian credit school system.

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Now, if you look at what you've done, I think and I've had some friends push back on those people who say, Don't go Don't like a blanket, no credit cards, do not ever get yourself into a serious debt. It's like, you have learned a lot from being in it. It's not to say you never encouraged people to actually go and do it

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on your debts, isn't that. Like,

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I see where you're going. And it's actually a good point is that like, it's very hard to like, say that, it was a good thing. Even though I got so much out of it. Like, it actually changed my relationship with money, which was the best thing ever, is that when I was paying off my debt, I didn't see any money that was coming in as mine. I was making money as a freelance filmmaker, I was building up my business. And I was able to, like I had a crazy goal in the beginning to pay off all my debt in two years, which is just absurd, especially because at the time I only had $20 in my bank account. That's not a made up number, because it's round. It was like it was like, I think I overdrawn my account, and I had to borrow money from my mom. And I had no money and I didn't have a lot of prospects coming in. And then just over the next two years, I really grew my business quickly, not enough to pay off all that. But I ended up paying off all my debt and four and a half years. And it was like this mentality of this money that I'm making isn't mine. And so I'm not going to be spending it on myself. I'm not going to be by myself too much shit that I don't need. minimalism helped in that regard to but it was like, I just need to get out of this. And then when I got out of debt, I still kind of have that same relationship with money, where I still am a little bit more frugal. I don't like spend excess money and I'm a little bit a little bit more mindful with where my money goes.

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Budget wise, known as a tight

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budget when it comes to like, how much you spend on food.

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No, no, and like I really am not that

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like a choose. I feel like you'd be like a

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good can of tuna. It's a good solid meal. A lot of protein.

18:07
I feel like you are a candidate. Yeah.

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For the protein

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for the protein. I'm for sure. Yeah. Well, the taste. I like the taste too. And it's an easy meal. Good when he got to worry about the mercury. gotta worry about the mercury. So I used to Tony Robbins. I

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think it was on a day like, like, Josh Orion one of the Josh did got done from the minimalists. Yeah, he's

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had a lot of health problems and like just mercury was just kind of like an no but might as well throw that in there. Why not throw it on top? And but yeah, I've been mindful of the mercury but it's a solid meal.

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Do you get like plane or do you get like chili oil?

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No, I just get the plane without an olive oil though.

18:47
I love talking about food. Especially like what people like the when you were paying back that money that would have been the time where one of your clients was a company called Videla? Oh, for sure. I remember Gary they being like, on Videla even like, like Gary Vee, who you're going to have on your YouTube channel pretty soon in January. He He talks a lot about like being on YouTube in the early days, but I reckon he put all of his money initially and energy into Videla. So he was a so what he's villa.

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Early Villa Villa was a video hosting site early on, that was actually competitor with YouTube. And it was pretty on par in the beginning. And then YouTube just took off and Fiddler ended up becoming more niche. They provided a little bit different services. So they had

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annotation annotations, you could

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click on a point in the timeline, and it helped for adding chapters and letting people know where it is in the video. And you could do custom branding, which you couldn't do on YouTube. And Gary Vee was an early investor in the company as well as he used it for his Wine Library show early on. And I actually did an interview with Gary. Probably a year or two maybe 2012 I guess. Yeah. And did like a sit down interview with him just about content and stuff. And we he kind of talked about that. But it's funny because he said that, is that the interview? Yeah, yeah. But that was with Fiddler, like Villar was paying me to do that as a client testimonial type piece. Because he was an investor but also used it as a class.

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I remember it like Videla back in maybe six or seven? Would that have been the been the year that you're working on? 2010 is when I worked with them. But that was they were around for four years? And what's the learning of being having a client? That's a start up? What did you actually learn working with these businesses,

20:39
that that was one of the best clients that I had up front, because they were my first retain client really, where they paid me money, you know, a couple thousand bucks a month to make videos for them. And it was the first amount of consistency that I had. And then it is so important to have that kind of consistent money coming in, or at least having a good amount of money come in, because then I could say no to the projects that I didn't really care about. Although like for the most part, I was just saying yes to everything. Because I was like I need to make money to pay off my debt so I can move the hell out of my parents house. But it was like, you know, I think you learned so much from experience in those early years that you can't learn from a book. Yeah, you have to actually get the experience dealing with the clients screwing up on a deadline. You know, figuring out managing expectations.

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Like Yes, it's one of the one of the wiser, it really cements in my head. My thick skin.

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Don't do it like that again. Yeah. Burn your finger on the stove.

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100% I bet my hands so many times.

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I sometimes I don't land. Yeah, that's hot. That again,

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again? Yeah.

21:49
And so the the finance stuff that you love with the business? Is that just translated to everyday life? The personal stuff? Or do you see running a business versus running personal finances different things?

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Well, I think it's very similar because there's so like intertwined in my life and my work life is very much my personal life because I love what I do. And I think that becomes difficult in like separating period. It's like, when do you shut off? When do you stop thinking about your work, when you stop thinking about what you're going to say on the next podcast? Or what video you're going to make next week?

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I think that one thing that

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you think about what you

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but at least that is the difficult part I think about being in a creative field is having time Are you truly shut down and shut off. But then again, it's like it's I mean, we're very lucky to be in a place where we get to do what we love, you know

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that for me that place. I haven't been there because I'm not a kid anymore. But it was when I was a kid, and you'd be sick. And you'd be in bed and you'd stay home from school. And you just watch movies. I just remember that is like, what else was I thinking about not school? What else did I have going on factual? And as you get older, and you've got responsibilities and business and you know, social life and family, he's like, wow, there's, there's not much time that you truly can have to yourself where you're removing, because you can you could you could disconnect from the responsibilities for a moment, but you need to reengage and get back to reality. I think it's, it's it sounds hot. It sounds like a bad existence when I say it like that. But if you can find a life that you actually love, and I think freelance and having your own business for me is like that place where it's how does it is? And as much as I think about it, you wouldn't if it was a job and I was thinking about this I'd get out. Yeah.

23:43
And you wouldn't want it to be easy. No, if it was easy, then you wouldn't be challenged, you wouldn't have difficult problems to solve. If it gets just to make sure that the stress doesn't become too much. Yeah, that it negatively impacts your life, and that you bring it home or you bring it into your relationships. But overall, it's like yeah, you kind of want it to be a little bit difficult. And you want to push yourself right and do shit that maybe you don't think or at one point you never thought you could do

24:10
one of the last videos Slow down. Slow the fact down

24:13
to slow down but in the video I say slow I don't see my titles but I do Chris my video.

24:20
What I've watched it but explain to us what what the thinking of that because it seems like it came at a time where it from the outside looked like it could be a breakdown.

24:32
I didn't want it to make it look like that.

24:37
Worried it was gonna come across like that, because and I tried to clear clarify that in the video. It's great. I

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love it be like some some hopper and the breakdown.

24:49
gets married in Vegas, literally.

24:53
Traveling minimalist. And,

24:57
and so what's going on? Tell us about? Oh, yeah,

25:00
so Okay, that was when we talked about this. Previously, it's like this idea of consistency. Yeah, that was the thing that got me here. But then it's maybe not. I mean, consistency, I think will always be important. But also like we set these unrealistic pressures on ourselves sometimes that I have to do this, I have to make a video every week, I got to make a podcast every week. And I could never take a break, I can never take off. And I was putting a lot of work into my videos. And I was also traveling a lot. So it was difficult to manage both. And I felt like I was working every weekend. And like it's not like so I would take like two weeks to be in Sydney. And I would work a little bit but not a lot. And so there wasn't like I was just nonstop grinding working every single day. But it just felt like a lot of traveling and then working and trying to make enough videos and keep my content going. That I was like making these eight to 10 minute documentaries, basically, every week, the same amount of energy, I would into an eight minute documentary. And I was like, all right, I need to like, just relax, I need to pump the brakes a little bit. And I actually so I released this video, it's like it's time to slow down. And it was just kind of talking about this and feeling like you have to keep going. And then I was like, let me just like I just want to take a little bit of a break. And the idea was I think I was going to take it was just about slowing down. But like I didn't, I wasn't gonna take a break. I wasn't actually planning on taking a week off. But then everybody in the comments was like, man, enjoy the time off, we'll see you when you get back. And I was like, Oh, I could take a week off. I was maybe gonna take like, the next video off, but then I was gonna keep the podcast going and all this other stuff. And I was like maybe what if I just the next week, I just take completely off and I don't upload a video and I don't upload a podcast, which I had done 16 months straight?

26:43
What were the things that you came up with, as to why you shouldn't do that?

26:49
Why you shouldn't have it right, you know why you

26:51
shouldn't take it. If I don't take that week off than likely the next video I post is going to it's going to be hurt. Maybe the YouTube algorithm will punish me because I haven't been remain consistent. Maybe people will forget about me. Because it's been two weeks since I've seen a video for me. I think it's a lot of things that obviously like it's laughable and sounds like nonsense. But those are the things that you kind of think about. And also the fact that I'm like I could manage it like it wouldn't burn me out. But I might maybe I do need a couple of days where I can just maybe work a couple hours and not like work 10 hours a day.

27:25
Do you think it's slightly hypocritical that you put out that but also at the same time? You've had this huge amount of success over the last

27:34
three or four months of doing that? Right? Yeah,

27:37
I guess how would that be hypocritical? Well, just like the

27:42
you putting in that time putting in the effort putting in that work? to then say, I want to take a break, or or that you don't need to work this hard. Do you sort of feel like you struggle to take your own advice in that regard? Yeah,

27:57
and I think I mean, that's like, what happens a lot of my videos is that this is advice that I'm trying to keep up with myself. And I'm not perfect. Yeah. Like I've talked about before, like productivity and minimalism and scheduling time to check emails. That's my ideal version of my life. That's what I try to do. Yeah. And I oftentimes, and then when I made the video, that's what I was doing. Yeah. And then three weeks later, I'm checking emails every fucking 10 minutes, because

28:20
I'm a human. Yeah, we slip into bad habits. The book Josh from the guys that made base camp. Yeah.

28:26
rework. Yeah. You don't have to remember. Yeah.

28:30
Okay, then you work doesn't have to be crazy. Yeah. Interesting. Fascinating. They they turn over, I sort of did some diving into how much the company's worth with the staff that they have. It's like 5050. Staff. Yeah, they turn over as much as Atlassian. Yeah, that has Wow, thousands, 100 staff. And those guys, so fascinating about the culture that I've built at their workplaces around not having to sort be crazy at work. And it's so funny, because it's, you could you could look at going the opposite way of working your ass off, and it will probably work as well as this, maybe it's harder to go down the approach that I've taken of like, let's have some strict rules. No working on the weekends. No. What What do you think about relating that to what you've done? Yeah,

29:21
I mean, what, it's a great point. And I think that like, Josh, the point that you brought up was very good, too, is like, just like, is that a little bit hypocritical? But I think that you actually do need to sprint. Yeah, you need to work really fucking hard in the beginning.

29:36
I think the point is that it's a paradox, right? That people take one thing and they say, Well, like I, the the people who don't need to hear it end up hearing it and they end up doing the fucking working hard enough. Like, I'm not saying that I don't need to work as hard. But the fact is that they actually need to be here in the opposite. Yes, I hope

29:57
I think I don't know if I cut this out of the video. But I think that I said maybe maybe this advice isn't for you. Maybe right now you need to work. The advice for you is to what I followed two months ago, which is the bust my ass to get to a point where I can finally slow down. Yeah, but it's like, we have a limited amount of runway, if you're trying to pursue like a unconventional path as a freelance filmmaker creative, like you have a runway and you have to make money. And if you take your time, and if you have tried to have a balanced life, and you're waking up in the morning and doing yoga, and then you're maybe working for two hours in the day, like you haven't earned that yet,

30:30
it feels like we can, as a society get a bit soft, where it's like, we want it all where it's like, we want to be able to quit our nine to five jobs to replace it with a nine to five job that's on our terms and expect to make the same amount, if not more money, where as like the way that I end, I started making my money outside of 95 was working really hard. And at the beginning, you need to like, correct to the other way around. I feel like if this is what you want, like I'm more comfortable, I feel like to put in more time than I would be before because rather than working for the man, it's like I'd prefer to spend 12 or 14 hours doing stuff that's going to push me forward is the other paradox. The What about the person who's listening that has worked their fucking ass off and has for years, they actually haven't gotten the success that they thought they'd get out of it. Because then they're like, if I stop working this hard. I don't know what's gonna happen. There's people who put out probably five videos every single week on YouTube, who have less than 1000 subscribers. So it's do something different.

31:44
Doing the same thing. Yeah, like I if I kept doing the same thing that I did on week one, I'm starting my YouTube channel. So now I wouldn't, I wouldn't have the channel half. Because

31:52
that's the paradox again, which is like, be consistent, but stop doing the same.

31:57
You got to experiment and you got to mix things up. It is like, that's where your personal experience and your gut comes into play where you have to be like, Am I is? Is it just that my audience hasn't found me? Or is it that I'm making shitty content?

32:11
And it's fine this way to work that out?

32:14
No, I think it just takes your gut, I think you like you have to have intuition as a creator and a creative. And you have to know, I think it comes from like, we have personal experience with content. We all watch videos, and we will all listen to podcasts. And we know what we like, yeah.

32:31
And we say hey, like, objectively, I think what I'm making is very good. It just maybe I need to, like keep at it a little bit longer than that's going to be something that you have to decide for yourself. You've got a great YouTube channel, because it's, as you described it, it's like, self development for people who aren't necessarily into self development. So it's like, the non lanky version of that would Yeah, yeah,

32:55
we're I'm trying to make it like, entertaining. Yeah, I'm trying to make it saying I don't like have a stick up my ass. I, I I'm not an expert at any of this stuff. And I think that there is just like, I don't know, a lot of people are turned off by self help. And embarrassed about buying a self help book. Yeah, but I think it's like, we should all be experimenting in our lives and trying different things and trying to like if we want to be happy, and you aren't, then I think you have to try different things. Yeah,

33:24
absolutely. It's a talk show everyone Hi, the daily talk show.com you want to send us an email and David has got a couple of new videos out to ones on the whole resolution 20 2019 Yeah, he's resolutions. Should you fucking have one? Should you maybe focus on a habit? I don't know. Find out

33:42
who have a good one.