Grant Smillie On TV Rock & Starting E.P. & L.P.

Grant: The Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: It's the Daily Talk Show and we're in Los Angeles.

Josh: And specifically we're at EPLP with Grant Smiley.

Grant: Welcome aboard, guys.

Josh: Nice to hear another Aussie accent.

Tommy: Yeah, we've come to LA and we've managed to find every Aussie.

Grant: Good job, guys.

Josh: I saw a mate that has Bondi Harvest down in Culver City, and then we were just at Nick Stone from Blue Stone. I mean, the Australians have invaded. What year did you invade America?

Grant: Yeah, we got on the boats and in 2014 we arrived here. We opened 2015, but obviously 2013 was the first sort of toe in the water, see what was what. And that's when we signed the lease at this particular spot we have. And then it took 18 months of planning and building and whatever else. And then you opened the doors.

Josh: We had lunch the other day. What was the name of that place?

Grant: Ciccone's.

Josh: We fucked it up. We were butchering the absolute— Cucini's, Cucicini's.

Grant: You're just being very Australian.

Tommy: We can't be influencers 'cause we can't pronounce anything.

Josh: I didn't mention it at lunch, but Growing up, I used to come and watch you at Prince of Wales. So, mate, you gave me my disco education and probably robbed you of a few brain cells along the way too. Mate, it was good fun. So you used to DJ? Yeah, obviously back in the day. How long were you DJing for before you moved into the hospitality game?

Grant: Yeah, good questions. I started, well, when I was 16, I looked clearly exactly the same as I did today. And I would turn 16 in Year 12, so I was turning— I was really young. So then I—

Tommy: Were you like really smart or what?

Grant: Nah, the old lady just wanted to get me out of the house as quickly as possible. But so what I had to do was go on WAG school, go and meet all the bouncers at this— at the Metro in the city at the time. And I went and decided that I was gonna be a promoter because that's the only way I was gonna be able to get in. And they said, you have to write your name on a pass, you know, and that's how you get a dollar per pass. And I said, hey, can I use a drill? I said, what do you want to use a drill for? I go, because otherwise you're going to write all the time these initials. I said, get it down there and bang, let's get them all out there.

Josh: So your mark was the drill hole?

Grant: The hole.

Josh: So okay, yeah, yeah.

Grant: And so then I was banging them out at universities, whatever else. I was making like $200 or $300 a week as a year 12, and they give me $100 drink card. I'd turn up going, fuck, magic, right? So I sort of got into that sort of nightclub space, but I was a musician at school as well. So then I post finishing up school, I decided that I wanted to go and pursue that DJ thing. I was doing a marketing management double degree at Monash, but at the same time I was pursuing the music stuff and became a DJ. That went pretty well. I was promoting, running clubs at the same time. And then the first pivot was saying, I don't wanna be a promoter anymore. I just wanna be judged by the musical acumen that I can have. 'Cause giving yourself a job's a bit, you know, whatever, when you're competing against your peers and all of a sudden, oh, you run that nightclub. Oh, funnily enough, he's just playing there. But then I started producing and then that was, you know, the first record we put out track called Flaunt It. Went pretty well.

Josh: I used to go to the gym with Sean.

Grant: Sean.

Josh: Yeah.

Grant: Seanie B. Seanie.

Tommy: Yeah.

Grant: Yeah.

Josh: So his mum, she came to the gym too.

Grant: Lovely lady. Magnificent. So we went on to win 2 ARIAs, sold 300,000 copies, and that was for that part of it. We couldn't get the record signed, so I started my own record label and that was how that came to be. And we did our own film clip, self-funded, and got to a point where we said, we've got to go to Warner. You guys can distribute it. See you later, bye. The rest is history. And then did that. For the best part of, you know, 15, 20 years and then decided the hospitality was— it was just more than 300 flights a year is exhausting.

Josh: Oh yeah. And the late, late nights.

Grant: Well, that was all right, but you just sort of get used to that. I think it's like habitual. But yeah, just missing your friends' birthdays, going to weddings, never went to them, you know, never Saturday night at home ever with your mates, ever, ever, ever. Because that always meant you weren't relevant. If you weren't working on a weekend, you weren't You want a good jock.

Tommy: What makes a good DJ?

Josh: Sunglasses.

Tommy: Well, because that's what I'm trying to understand, because there seems to be like a big, like filmmaking and videography, there's a huge scope, right? So you have the DJ who has, you know, 1,000 CDs and they're rocking up at the school and they've got the strobe light, which is only for big songs. Can you, what's the spectrum of DJ? What are the different types of DJs and how do you end up becoming becoming a producer?

Grant: Okay, two questions. There's two parts of it. How do you become a good DJ? I don't know. The barriers to entry back then were a bit more significant. It was $22 for a vinyl single. So you had to pick, make sure what you were buying was good because everything was expensive. And then you had a box, one crate, that was all you could carry. Not like these days, USB. And everyone's a DJ now because it's all great.

Tommy: It's all great. It's like you had to curate. You were curating the music.

Grant: Well, you had X amount of hours and that was all I had. So you better make sure it's bloody good content. And then assume that everyone's played the biggest record before you got there. Because that's what made a good DJ. Make your Bs your As and make sure you can still kill the night without having to play a hit. That was my rule. As long as I can— how long can I go without giving them what they want?

Tommy: So what's the secret? What was the secret track that you'd pull out if shit was going bad? What was the one that—

Josh: Drop the Pressure.

Grant: A bit of that.

Tommy: I was gonna say Love Shack, but I'm clearly in a different party.

Grant: I used to just mash up with In Excess, New Sensation, and Daft Punk. And we used to blow the roof off. It was two old vinyl things and it was old live drums. So you're having to correct it all the time on vinyl, which is tricky. Yeah. But it's, I don't know. And then it gets back to your point. How do you become a good DJ? Make the record and that producer part of it. The only way to be an authority in the space is to make it like and be relevant. So that was the other reason I stopped DJing. I just didn't have time to produce. And if I can't actually get in there and drop a record and be like, I want to be in the chart all the time.

Tommy: So on the tools, are you using like Ableton or something, or what are you using?

Grant: Logic Pro was our weapon of choice, but everyone, each their own. Doesn't matter whatever you start on as long as you're making good music. And I think that's the other problem too. There's just this enormous shotgun approach to music these days because there's such a proliferation of technology out there. So now you're getting— I'm going to show— I'm showing my age, goddammit. But we used to sit there and play. You'd make a record, okay? To get it out onto— it wasn't even CDs back then, you're pressing it on vinyl. You have to go on, that costs, right? So if I'm gonna get it signed, that guy's got to say, I'm gonna spend X on a test pressing, then we're going to take it to record shops and they're gonna have to want to buy it, otherwise there's an enormous amount of money going out here. So I had ease on it. I had a guy from the record label who said, I believe in it, and he'd be almost playing it down the phone to record stores going, what do you think of this record? Because they want to— are you gonna buy it? Yeah, because we want to get X amount of buy-in to actually produce the record. So, or now it's like I export, it's on the net, you know, you can buy it or it's download for free. So the quality control aspect I feel is not there.

Tommy: So samples, is that like, are you like getting beats or stuff from other songs? Like this sort of, is that electronic? Is that the genre or what is it?

Grant: Yeah, I mean sampling's not, you know, not electronic. I mean, Daft Kanye's been doing it forever. Like, you know, some of his biggest records have got samples. It's just the clearance if you want to sell it and leverage against other people's works. And obviously having unique original stuff's your best avenues and not to worry about clearance. But there's no problem, you know, using other people's works as long as you pay them for their use.

Josh: Were you focused on personal brand back then? Because I think the Smiley brand, the Grant Smiley brand, back when I was going to clubs, it was— you nailed it.

Grant: I did alright.

Josh: Like just a bit of Nova, a bit of One Love. Mate, it was all there. Was it— is that what you were thinking back then? Like how can I build my personal brand?

Grant: I'd be lying if I told you it wasn't. But for sure, I mean, look, at the same time when you're saying how one becomes a good DJ, I spent money back on doing, you know, your logos, your press shots, all the bullshit that goes with that. Because again, if you either just rip out all the coin, then how do you get better at it? You know? So I just found that also trying to do, like, if you're a DJ, just turn up and do your job. It's a bit like the Iceberg, you know, during the week, everyone goes, oh, you got the best job on the planet. You come out here, you get drink cards, you try and pinch my missus. And, you know, see you later, right? But my whole week was programming, planning, you know, all these edits and things that meant that you come to watch my show because I've done the work when you get here. And then it was about the intros and stuff, make sure when I turn up I'd be like— I don't know, you like to swear on this thing?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, cool, nice.

Grant: You got to walk into him like, fuck you all, you're fucking mine. Because I don't know who was before me and I don't really care, but look at me, look at me, and as long as I've got you, you look at me, and I'm just gonna— we're doing this now. And you can honestly take them if they'll trust you. Yeah, they start to trust you. I'm going bottom of the ocean, we're getting away with shit you never should get away with. As long as you can sort of demonstrate that I'm putting in more energy than you are, and then I can do some things that give it some relevancy, that once they get a thread they can follow, and then I don't know, that's what made it kind of— you just got to walk walk in, it's like, it's just your joint, has to be, you know. And I think people want to be led, you know. It's— if you look like you've got any sense of fear, and no matter what job it is, I reckon people look at and go, ah, guy hasn't got it. Yeah, you know.

Tommy: So is that— have you taken that on within business? Are you fucking walking into every meeting with your fucking mind? Thank you.

Grant: Well, you can do that many different ways, probably. Um, well, I mean, look, you've got to have some self-confidence in your brand and what it is you're doing. And I think that goes a long way, but you've also got to back it up because it's one thing to sit there and puff your chest out. But, and I think, you know, humility is, you know, as I've got older, is the more impressive part of your business acumen. You know, I think it's, I built this, we built this platform to let others be the star of the show, be it the chef, be it whatever else, the designers. I'm first to say who's the, it's not me. All we did was have a curating experience. And if I can't then deliver this, and if this is as good as it gets, then I guess it's as good as it gets. Or do I want to progress personally and develop other things and do other parts of it? Because the creative foil, I guess, is what's been my thing that connects the DJing to promoting, or this, or whatever else. It's like the process of the opportunity.

Josh: Yeah.

Grant: And you think, what is it that this— why was it a roof? Oh, it's a rooftop. What we're gonna do there? I was gonna put a bar on it. Okay, well, It's not rocket science, but then it's what are the elements that make it relevant 6 months, 6 years later? You know, it's trying to fast forward that sort of process. And I think that's what I enjoy the most. The day-to-day stuff is kind of, you know, if Billy doesn't turn up for work, I don't really care. As long as someone's doing his shift, that's a manager's job. It's probably not my job. But you know, that's, I think you can spend time in the wrong spots in your day-to-day lifestyle. And it's just trying to, push that out as much as you can.

Josh: Comedians cutting their teeth opening for bigger acts is something you have to go through, I think. You toured with Swedish House Mafia.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Which, you know, they're one of the biggest groups in the world, and you were probably the biggest in Melbourne, very big in Australia. What was that experience like opening for a huge band, a huge group that The people there are there to see someone else, Swedish House Mafia, not you. So what was that feeling like?

Grant: Ah, look, it was good to hang out with the fellas, mate. That wasn't my show. And I think, you know, you're going into that, so you just— I'm not the star on that day. That's them. And my job is actually just to be the best warmer-up or fluffer, whatever you want to call it, you know, to get them to where the crowd wants to get. And we just sit backstage and I sort of knew what they were playing by that stage. And I just sort of walk through with them saying, here's what I want to do. But every crowd's different. That's the beauty of music. You go to someplace, you think this is gonna blow the doors off it, and it's just like crickets. You're like, "Alright, better go and refocus." But for me, it was kind of watching the excitement in a room, and you can see it's this palpable energy for waiting for the band to come on, knowing that I'm at 30% volume and they're gonna come in at 100%.

Tommy: That's what I was wondering. So do they actually disengage speakers and shit for the support?

Grant: Mate, I'm running on like pedal power. But they sort of need to because that's what makes the magic, you know, when it gets all of a sudden it's loud and it's them and it's the show. So you don't get the CO2, you don't get the fire, you get none of that stuff. So these guys come out, it's like bang, bang, bang, welcome to the Swedish House Mafia show. But look, for all those guys, don't get me wrong, they're doing the same shit we're doing, going, what's our next single look like? Fuck, I'm not that creative today. Better see you tomorrow, guys. And they keep going back to the well, back to the well, and how do we remain relevant? I'm sure they're doing the same questions that every home studio producer's doing. They're just wealthier, older, and, you know, and probably got more pressure to deliver.

Josh: So what do you think, for these huge acts, Calvin Harris, what do you think it is that has made them pop?

Grant: I mean, look, they're just significant songwriters. I mean, if you think about the Swedes with Don't You Worry Child, they get together with John Martin, they have this record, it still stands the test of time. Calvin writes, he's written records for a generation almost of just banger after banger. That guy's a talent. And now he's a gardener. He's like got, he's bought a big plot of land in Ibiza and he just wants to tend to the garden for a year.

Tommy: Do you burn out? Like I guess it's quite an extreme lifestyle in some ways bringing that energy.

Grant: Yeah, I mean you do, but I think the other part of it is you also need time out of market. I think if you give yourself an availability to people all the time and they expect expect that they can see you and you're going to do another record. How do you write the smash hit if you're on the road all the time and you sit there and I've got to sit down in front of the computer and be creative for a minute and write this next hit and they're going, when's the next hit? And you know, I just put a record out like 2 days ago. You know, the internet's like, what, you guys every day, what's next? What's next? You know? So I think the expectation and like you'll see even the Taylor Swifts of the world, they have to go, I need 2 years off. Ed Sheeran, I want 3 years off because I've got to write the next album because otherwise— and then I can go on tour.

Tommy: What was that for you? What was that moment where you realised you had to take a break?

Grant: Ah, liver damage.

Tommy: I'm joking. I'm joking.

Grant: I just think I got to a point where I remember I was standing at a gig in Albury. Sorry, Albury. And I'm like, I've just driven here 5 hours from Melbourne.

Tommy: Yeah.

Grant: And the crowd would just not educated about what I was trying to do. And I'm just getting— I feel like I'm a hooker. I'm getting paid a lot of money, but I don't really want to be here. Yeah, um, that's it, I'm done. And I said— I rang back home, I saw my buddy, I got 10 shows left. He goes, what do you mean? I said, I got 10 shows left. I did 10 shows. I just picked 10 I wanted to do, and that was it.

Tommy: What was the final one?

Josh: And what year was that?

Grant: Ah, shit, that would have been like 20— 13, something like that. I mean, what final show? I think it might have been a My Music Bowl thing or something. But I mean, I played the Grand Final. I played, you know, I've done like some epic shit. Yeah.

Tommy: You know, what's the grand— because the Grand Final obviously has that stigma, to be honest. What has it— has the stigma of like you can't fucking win doing the Grand Final. As an artist, are you going in with that mindset?

Grant: I killed it, mate. Yeah. The thing about it is we played with the Others, was big at the time, which is a track we did with the Dukes of Windsor. But we did this record, and the benefit of it— there's always something that happens on the day. It didn't happen to me, it happened to Jet. So poor old Nick Sester, they had these fallbacks in front of them, and they weren't allowed to play the drums live. Well, they were playing them live, but they weren't amplified, so it was a click track and whatever else. And then they had the live monitors back through here, and the monitors went dead, and he could hear himself on this delay about 2 seconds on the other side of the understand, and he was just like way out. I'm looking at him going, you poor bastard, you're dead. And the next day I was all about how Jet's performance was terrible, but it wasn't their fault, the amplifiers went out. And if they had to let them play live like they wanted to, it would have been no drama. But that's show business, hey?

Tommy: What was the highlight of all the different performances you did? Which one stands out?

Grant: So many good ones. I mean, Ibiza was always great to go and play. Playing— we played a festival I played the Love Parade in Berlin, there's a million people, you know. They're all so different. The Bowl in Melbourne when it was on fire for Summer Days was just— closing those things was pretty amazing. And there's nothing better than, you know, when we had a track like A Flaunce It or whatever else, when there's 20,000 people singing back to you. It's pretty amazing. I was sitting in— I can't remember, I was with Ivan, we were in maybe Magnetic Island or something and they said, "Are you going to number one?" like, shit, that's pretty impressive. I think because you think we're a bit naive, you know, I was a bit naive. The first one out smashes it, then you go for your next nomination at the ARIA Awards, you go, well, that's good to even get one, and then you lose it. You're like, oh, these are hard to get, aren't they? You know, people have gone their whole lives as career musicians that have never even picked up one of these things, and old mate just waltzes in year one and gets two of them.

Josh: That was a good tune. It's great, dude.

Grant: But it was just topic, it was just it was timely. It sounded different. And then after us was Sneaky, and then after Sneaky it was the presets, and after the presets, just electronic music had a moment. I just happened to have a record with the other guys that connected for whatever reason.

Josh: And you were doing radio with John Corse. Sure was. So the two of you.

Tommy: Yep.

Josh: Was that a— did you guys have a partnership? Were you in business together?

Grant: Yeah, a bit of both. So with Nova, you know, contrary to popular belief, they don't tap you on the shoulders and go, "Hey, you blokes are killing it down at One Love. Do you wanna go and do a show?" I was at Seven and I was running Seven and John was at One Love and I knew that between the two of us we sort of had the Melbourne kind of club scene happening for the minute from a musical perspective. So I said, why don't we go to Nova, we'll go and pitch them on a show. We'll just sit there and give them a free show and we'll see if they air it. And so I went and did this demo, put it together and went down. They said, yeah, we'll do it. It was at the time was called Overdrive, that was their show name. So we said, you know, we'll do that. And then over the next year we said maybe we'll put a fee in it, but not a big one. It was never about the money, it was just more to cover the production costs and whatever else. And so we evolved that, evolved that, evolved that, and then I started saying to the guys at The Prince, maybe in the background I was sort of weaving in a bit of maybe I'll just jump ship and we'll join the team together and say what was what. And because I was running Seven, I was running all the promo, all the marketing, and I said— and they said you can just turn up and DJ. I'm like, for more money? Like magic, there goes the day job and I can just turn up and play records. So John and I started playing, it was just them, then the One Love brand, they could, it's a bit like having two full forwards, you know, they could say, John, you're going to Sydney, Grant, you're going to Adelaide, and it was kind of, they could build the brand with all of us. We bought this suite of dudes that we've got all just fill in, but obviously you get to a point where it dilutes the brand so much that you go to Prince on a Saturday night and there's the B team and it kind of didn't— no disrespect to anyone who weren't there at the time, but sometimes it would just— they'd sent this everyone out, all the A's to all around Australia. But One Love was really popping at the time. But back to your point about John and I, so we did a lot of stuff together and I think we both benefited from leveraging each other's, you know, kind of— he was the Ministry of Sound guy, I was the One Love guy, and then we were together, it was kind of That's some of the parts, I guess, bigger than the whole.

Tommy: What did you learn about collaboration?

Grant: Oh, look, I think I've always tried to collaborate with people smarter and better than me. I think you've always got to. If they're stupid enough to go and want to hang out with me, good luck to them. But I mean, even with, you know, TV Rock, Ivan was a far better producer than I was, but I was always the kind of guy that said, that bit's not going to work on the floor, let's just axe that, do this, do that. You can spend 5 hours fashioning that kick because that's what he's, he's amazing. He's a genius. But maybe the magic was that I could market it better than other brands and I could get it through the, cut through the noise and get it into the right hands to make sure it was getting played at the right times. So I think the collaboration thing is here, we get, if I can afford the best chef or the best architect or the best designer and the best real estate and the best whatever, just get the best, figure it out, get a way to get it because the outcome is so much better if they're vested and they're smarter than you because you know you never want to be the smartest one in the room.

Josh: What happens with music and you know years on from that track being released? How many years ago was that?

Grant: 2011, 12, 13?

Josh: Do you still make money from songs because they're still getting played on the radio?

Grant: You're lying, mate. I reckon, I think last year I've got a feeling I might have collected $78 and the admin fees are on me.

Josh: So that's what happens. It just— so I think about like huge, you know, the—

Grant: I don't know, Taylor Swift.

Tommy: So like Adele and PP Sit Like This.

Josh: Yeah, these people you hear about these royalty checks.

Grant: Yeah, the 2 billion streams that they're getting pale in significance for our 28,000 last year, I'm sure, or whatever it was. I mean, it's all like kind of— it's a touring game. So these things are just postcards. Send them out. I'd give away— if I'm making more music, I'd give it away for free. Free. Because the actual monetary value of what it's, $1.99 on iTunes, I got to do this, but I won't take it. Because if I'm on the road, then that's where I'm making my bread. So that's probably the other reason why, as much as I'm excited to go back, I'd love to go and do another record, I'm petrified about what the outcome is. Yeah, going on the road. I'm not doing it.

Tommy: When did you decide that you were going to live in Los Angeles?

Grant: I think I was naive insofar as I I thought I could just bounce back and forth between Australia and LA and maintain that sort of balance. But pretty quickly when we got here and opened, we sort of just sort of understood the magnitude of what this venue was in particular. We had to staff, we had 100 staff, you know, within a week of opening. You got different labour laws, different liquor laws, different everything, service, whatever. And I just sort of thought, yeah, I'm probably gonna have to stay. But then at the same time, I mean, you know, you can see in the background that these hills are not too bad. The blue sky's pretty much 360 days a year. There's worse places to be stranded, you know. And I still get to go home, and I've still got Ponyfish Island in Melbourne, and I've still got— I just recently sold my, my share in a PR agency there, but I still got a connection to Melbourne. But I don't think I'll be home in the immediate future.

Josh: Opening a place like this, I could imagine you want to know that you can keep the doors open for a certain amount of time, which equates to a certain dollar figure because you go, you know, 6 months running costs. What is the approach when you're opening a venue of this scale?

Grant: Look, first thing is your assumptions are wrong. That's the only guarantee you got because you're going to be over budget or you're always going to be over budget. Let's be honest, you're always going to be over budget. But it's kind of like when even if you talk about invest, anyone who wants to invest in these things, 'cause the only guarantee you've got is that you're wrong, in that your budget estimate's gonna be either higher or lower. You're either gonna do better or worse than what you are. But to your point, I guess, we sort of thought that, I mean, you've gotta allow a realistic kind of outcome number. So when you say, do your DD, make sure you've gone through the planning process, understand all the timings and the bill costs, and then allow for your, obviously everyone's got a contingency, but if you can sort of get you got to get through the first year as any business. You just got to hold your head above water. Some things catch fire, and I think for these things—

Josh: metaphorically?

Grant: We actually did set this place on fire. I shit you not.

Josh: I mean, Mr. 97 set this place on fire on Saturday night.

Grant: We had a faulty fire pit down the other end, and we had the fireys down here week 4, and we were literally on fire. I sat downstairs at the end of the night with my business partner Dave with 3 fingers of whiskey going, geez, that was nearly the quickest blow up of a couple of million bucks you've ever seen in your life. But, which is a heartbreak for all restaurateurs because you've gone through the work and then it, you know, it's like a, you know, a fire in a kitchen is a disaster. But back to your point, I think, look, if you can do a strip mall down here real cheap, but your food better be just banging because what's your differentiation? So I always like to think about, for this, it's not easily replicable. So it does give you some sort of sense of protection around what the site and what you're doing. So I find that Grandmaster Records we're doing in Hollywood opens in July, June-July this next 2020, and it's gonna have an enormous rooftop. We've spent 2 years in planning with lawyers and consultants and whatever else, but I can tell you what, no one else has spent 2 years doing that stuff.

Tommy: What's the weird things that you have to consider when you're opening a rooftop?

Grant: Weight. You know, you're putting 500 bodies on the roof. You know, that's a lot of structure, a lot of steel. Then your noise mitigation, what do your neighbours look like? You know, how you're servicing it, how you're getting vertical transportation up, what's your egress, what's fire, what's this. Oh mate, you can go, it's as long as you want to go. And they're all, all the fun police are just spinning sirens everywhere because, you know, us Aussies go, we'll just all be fine.

Josh: She'll be right.

Grant: Sweet mate, sweet. It's fine until the thing buckles and collapses. But they're all the things that everyone, because it's such a litigious country, everyone wants to cover their rear end, so they'll over-engineer this deal, they'll over-engineer the egresses, they'll over-engineer everything to make sure you're so compliant to the point where, you know, it's crazy but you just do it. But, you know, on the upside there's not many of them and that's— do the work, I guess you get the reward.

Tommy: Having multiple businesses, does it change the type of role once you go from one business to having many? How do you manage that?

Grant: Yeah, that's a good one. You just get— I mean, obviously you get busier.

Tommy: Yeah.

Grant: But what it does as you get bigger, it affords you the opportunity to employ some really good people. So all of a sudden, if someone says, "I need $100 grand to do X," you're like, "Yeah, that's fine." You know, within reason, as long as they can justify it. You're the best in your craft. The budget, you can amortise it across a group kind of thing. So you've just got to learn to not sweat the small stuff and delegate really aggressively. So plan, like, you know that certain things happen each year, New Year's Eve's happening, you know, holiday periods happen, whatever else. And there's no reason that I can't do the marketing programme for Halloween next year. It's coming. What's the thematic?

Tommy: Is there something around like, so salaries versus taking dividends? Like how does that work? Do you take a salary from every single business or are you better off making a profitable business that you then then take the coin at the end?

Grant: I mean, they both work. I mean, I think it's kind of, do you want to exit it and keep all the, all the rev and all the profitability in the business, which is a more attractive business to sell? Or, and look, we've set up businesses where all profits are retained because that means you can grow.

Tommy: Yeah.

Grant: So you're not sitting there worried about where's the next deposit coming from.

Tommy: You've got equity to be able to invest.

Grant: Yeah, it just keeps getting reinvested and reinvested. And I think for me, that's the smart play if if you can. But I mean, obviously, everyone's got different requirements. So some people say, I need a dividend because the dividend. So you might do a hybrid model where you say, there's a dividend of X and the rest gets retained. Sometimes someone, they wanna drain the swamp, they're like, I'll drain the swamp, knock yourself out. You know, like, they're all different. But I think I like to have the available cash 'cause it's otherwise going around and shaking the tin all the time to try and raise revenue for new projects can be, look, I think we've, we've proven a model, so it's a bit easier, but it still takes your time. You've got other stuff to do that's probably more important.

Josh: But your, um, your second venue from the first, is it easier or is it still just the same hard game of hustling?

Grant: No, I think it's a bit easier. Um, consultant team's rock and roll, you know, you just know the right people to call. When we got here, we had Dave's number, my number, our real estate agent, and you got to try and find everything else. Who's your builder? Who's this? Who's that? You know, what's the liquor supplier? And nice Aussies come over going, ah, so I'm gonna do a deal with like the equivalent of CUB, they're gonna pay for everything, right? They go, hey, that's illegal. I'm like, what do you mean it's illegal? They go, nah, you gotta just pick whatever you want and you stock it. I'm like, but who's paying for the beer system?

Tommy: Yeah.

Grant: You are a champ.

Josh: So in Australia you're allowed to, like you go to a new bar in St Kilda, The Village Bell, redone it, and you've got— they've got all these pipings which are Carlton United, so they've piped in their own system and they brew it fresh.

Grant: Yeah, brewery fresh.

Josh: It's dripping because it's so cold.

Grant: 500 Ponyfish coming up soon from Renewal. It's a good sound, brewery fresh.

Josh: And so they chip in, is that the idea?

Grant: Yeah, so what they'll do is they'll just do an estimate. Like, it's the way that they go about the model. You can say 'Look, we looked at your venue, we've seen how many taps, we reckon you're a good operator. We'll give you $250,000 upfront, which you can pay for, put forward to whatever you choose to, but you're gonna have to do 600,000 litres.' And it's either your contract is up when the 600,000 litres is met, or 5 years, whatever it might be. So it does allow you in Australia the benefit of that cash flow. But in saying that, the tax, liquor taxes and whatever else, you know, it's a $10 for a bottle of vodka in America, or it's for the same equivalent one is $40 in Australia. So, you know, it doesn't matter whether I end up getting it on this side where they're paying for it, or it's just, you know, that's the cost of doing business.

Tommy: What was the biggest, like, the surprise cost that you just weren't expecting?

Josh: The heaters.

Grant: The heaters are expensive. No, they're not. Just the delays, the things you think you're gonna open. You see, you can open, you know, December and all of a sudden you're rolling into August.

Tommy: Is someone telling you December? Like, who's fucked up?

Grant: Look, you got to put a— we probably didn't have enough penalty clauses on our builders to sit there and say that, yeah, here's the penalties if you don't deliver on time. But then the second part is this, the city sign-offs, and Johnny, who does the gas guide, only works Tuesdays and Thursdays and he's booked up for the next 2 weeks. You're like, we're finished, we've finished our job. Like, we've got— and you've hired all your staff. So we had chefs, we had 6 chefs we pulled out from Australia, sponsored visas. And they were painting and like planting shit and like sanding the floors with me. We're all just like all pitching. I go, guys, want to get back on the tools anytime soon? Because if we don't finish this freaking project, you're all going to be just carpenters with me. So just that the cost at the end, the hidden cost of just the labour costs. When we hired way too early thinking that we're going to get the sign-offs and in the city and all of a sudden it's like 2 months later you've been paying, you know, $40 grand a week of costs and, you know, it's 2 months by, you know, you're not factoring that into your build cost and it's just straight out the door, no benefit. But wouldn't do that again. You just got to wait till you get sign-offs and then just go hard, do some training and hire at that stage.

Josh: What came first, Ponyfish Island or this venue?

Grant: No, Ponyfish is year 9, so it's been going for a while. That was a pop-up for, you know, 2 weeks, then on the first night we sold out of beer 4 times and I said, this is permanent.

Josh: Is a pop-up just a way of people saying we're testing?

Grant: Yeah, it's the same way that someone says I'm an entrepreneur and they go, wouldn't you prefer to be called a fucking successful business person? Because I reckon an entrepreneur is a guy that keeps on fucking failing.

Tommy: Yeah, pop-ups are pretty non-committal.

Grant: Are we dating?

Tommy: Yeah, it's complicated.

Grant: But you know, I think for us it It was though, because it was a piece of frickin' concrete in the middle of a river. You know, we still have to bring ice there every day. There's no ice machine. There's no power.

Josh: Such a bizarre spot. It's bizarre. But it's so unique. So if you— if it worked, it was going to be amazing because it's— you're not going to get a piece of land like that anywhere else.

Grant: But you can't get insurance on there either because it's, you know, the great flood of '97 and the great flood of 2016. Like, it floods every year. Yeah.

Josh: So you've just factored that in now?

Grant: Yeah, you just buy fridges with motors on the top so you don't blow everyone up when the water comes up. And you know, like, it's just, you got to get everyone out.

Josh: So you'd had a bit of, you know, practise with a venue in Australia, then you move over here. What's the biggest difference in Australian laws and regulations and American laws and regulations? Like, what blows your mind?

Grant: One thing that I, when we first got here, and I still think every Australian tourist has seen this. When you go to a venue and you say, hey bud, can I, um, can I just grab a beer, thanks? And they go, yeah, I'll just go get you a server. You're like, what are you? Yeah, I'm the, I'm the back waiter. I'm like, I just want a beer, right? So can you, can you just tell the guy who's, that is going to get— let's just cut out the middleman, right? Yeah, because in Australia it's like, Grant's working your section, I'm taking your drink order, I'm clearing your plates, I'm dropping your check. See you later, bye. Right here it's like, no, no, no, I don't collect that. I'm just taking the orders. I'm the front man. There's someone else who does that job.

Tommy: Did you try and push it the other way?

Grant: I tried it. We tried it on and all the servers and we couldn't get staff. They're like, I'm not doing that. And I said, explain it. I'm like, you get the tips for that guy. You can pull them. You get the lot of it.

Tommy: Sure.

Grant: It was like you've asked them to go and jump off the side of a building.

Tommy: I think I've created a bunch of drama in the US before where I have managed to get someone to do something, or it's the shift that like even yesterday—

Grant: They have to split cheques at the end of the night, tips, and you've caused that drama.

Tommy: Well, we even, not to brag, but we went to IHOP last night. You're really going for it. And no, the lady actually, the waitress said, can I just close your checkout?

Grant: Because I'm finishing my shift.

Tommy: Yeah.

Grant: Yeah, it's weird too. How about you just leave it open, love?

Tommy: Yeah, it is strange.

Grant: It's odd. I'm just gonna— oh, they'll come and say, make sure that I'm leaving, so I'm just letting you know that I'm leaving.

Tommy: Yeah.

Grant: And they're going to be taking up—

Tommy: it's like, so much drama.

Josh: How does it— what does it do to the culture of, you know, your venue and the staff?

Grant: Look, it's all about how you deal with it. I think at the same time, like, you can have a model in America where it's kind of everything's a piece of real estate, so you can rent this for $2,000 on a Saturday, and that seats that, and that seats that. And it's quite a common sort of thematic, even at sports bars, booths like $400 minimum spend.

Tommy: It's a real estate game. It's real estate.

Grant: Yeah, it really is. And, and, but we found that then you can't really regulate the kind of crowd, or if you do, you're a bunch of 15 blokes, I'll just buy 2 tables, but then you've got 15 knuckleheads all hanging around. It's just like, really? And it's not the best look. So we sort of decided we'll create a rooftop pub kind of scenario where it's just it's elevated and it's beautiful, but I'm not going to try and worry about this bottle service kind of thing. I want you to come often and enjoy it and it's not pretentious. It's just kind of part of the community. And I think that's what's made it, give it some longevity because there's always the hot new thing that rocks through the venue. So there's like down the street when the Nice Guy was banging, it was just bottles. And then they open up another venue up the road called Poppy and then that hot crowd goes there and then they're sort of singing for their supper down the road.

Tommy: So bottles, that just— I haven't been to that many venues.

Grant: Bottle service, so you get a bottle of tequila, bottle of—

Tommy: So you have to go— is that common in Australia as well?

Grant: They're starting it now.

Tommy: Is it a bit tryhard?

Josh: It's like a little bit like— It's like when I came 2012.

Grant: Small dick syndrome.

Josh: 2012 I got into the bottle service here. I saw a promoter say, because a lot of the promoters, they'll get a huge cut if they sell a bottle. The bottle is $800. This one guy says, I didn't sell bottles, I sell expensive ice that you can put a free bottle into. The bottles are free, the ice is expensive.

Grant: Wow.

Josh: So then, so like I remember Bootsy Bellows, is that still open?

Grant: Yeah, they just spent a couple million bucks on it.

Josh: So they've redone it?

Grant: Redone it. That's the hard part too with those things. You're always flipping the concept, flipping it, flipping it, making it new again, making it new again.

Josh: Well, is that because they, I mean, I remember that being an exclusive club.

Grant: Yeah, it still is.

Josh: It still is?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so Is this a play in the opposite direction of exclusive, or is it still an exclusive venue but with a different approach?

Grant: It's just like, I mean, look, we still regulate, but it's kind of— you can regulate your crowd in many ways. Like, you can be a lot more subtle. They just sit there and go, it's a real estate game. Put an extra $2 on your cocktails and put the West Hollywood rooftop tax on it.

Josh: Yeah.

Grant: And if someone's looking for a true value, I want to go to sports bar because I don't want to pay $5 for a beer, wouldn't this isn't your spot. And that's okay because they're gonna find somewhere else and there's probably gonna be more to their liking anyway. So I think you can curate it by design, pricing, and other elements that still makes you land the right people where you wanna get 'em. So that's where I think the long play is.

Josh: Yeah, I find nothing sadder than walking past a venue that has zero people in it all the time. Like I start thinking, oh fuck, this is gonna be closed soon. And I keep looking. I mean, is that a— is that feeling something you have with a venue where you're like, fuck, if I don't start seeing people here soon, like, I mean, this one's pretty busy.

Tommy: It's like burger places in Melbourne, right? There was like 5 years ago, everyone was opening fucking burger places.

Josh: But is it on your mind when you're opening a venue going, is this just a trend?

Tommy: Is this gonna—

Grant: yeah, well, that's what I think. You're gonna build beyond the trend. That's why I think with hospitality, it's about— you think of it as like a a layered cake that's got design, food, beverage, events, whatever it might be that have so many different elements and any single one of them might collapse for a minute, but the thing doesn't fall apart. You can rebuild it, fix it, get it right. And if you're saying you go so balls deep into a concept and you say it's this burger thing that's gonna be, we're doing like a plant-based burger. Interesting story, Cafe Gratitude has an all vegan, all plant-based everything, right? All of a sudden, these other restaurants around town start adding vegetarian, vegan items to their menus because it's become relevant, important to do so. Do you reckon that when they were the only one, you went balls deep, we're vegan, and then everyone used to go there. Now you're out and you're out with your friends and they don't want to go to the vegan, all-vegan spot, but you can still eat like a vegan at our venue down the road. So where are you going? Do you reckon they're as busy as they were at the start?

Tommy: No way. So a niche is overrated then?

Grant: Depends. If you're the best sushi joint in town, you're the best sushi joint in town, full stop.

Josh: Yeah.

Grant: So I kind of think that it's still okay to be niched. It's just you got to be balls deep if you're going to do it.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Grant: But even then, there's no guarantees. I don't know, there's nothing certain. There's only like 15 institutional restaurants in Melbourne. It's probably only 20 here. Yeah, they can survive 20, 25 years. I mean, I don't know, do you want to stand around the same job for 25 years? Some just feel good.

Tommy: Yeah.

Grant: And you just don't know what that magic is.

Tommy: What do you think the magic is for here, EPLP?

Grant: I think over time it just keeps on changing, like the greenery on the roof, this continues to grow, so every year it looks a little bit different. We put a big tent on it like over the fall, over the winter, because the first 2 years it was just freezing up here. And we don't want to say freezing. Are you doing movies as Doing movies, we added a movie theater.

Tommy: Is it a clusterfuck with licensing?

Grant: Ah, you get through it. That's pretty funny when we opened it and we started doing the movies and it's like, what are we gonna pick? And like all of a sudden it's the, uh, look to the oracle, which is called Google. What's the, you know, one of the most popular chick flicks? And then you sit down and you just throw on darts at the dartboard and we just programme the shit out of it 5 nights a week.

Josh: 10 Things I Hate About You.

Grant: Yeah, that smashes it.

Tommy: Yeah, that's a good one.

Grant: And Crocodile Dundee didn't so much.

Tommy: Oh really?

Grant: It didn't work.

Tommy: Could have gone either way.

Grant: Dave and I loved it. That was for you. It was good fun. But you just got to figure out which one didn't work, and we found out pretty quickly. We had a 70% skew towards women at the cinema, and it was like a date night. They'd bring the dates, they'd bring the guy, or it was a girls' night out.

Josh: Yeah.

Grant: So then all of a sudden it was those kind of movies, and you know, The Notebook sells out, you know, La La Land, you can show it 17 times in a season, you know. So, but we just, once you know what the, what it's doing, you just then skew it more the next year and get it tighter, do it better. And it's, for us, it's like on a Tuesday night when you've got 110 sold-out movie and 60 of them are doing dinner at 6 o'clock downstairs in your restaurant. When you walk in at 6, where everyone else is waiting for their first client to come in, we've got a pumping restaurant and it just builds momentum and energy. I think, like you said, we don't like, you don't want to see a place that's empty. If you can walk into a room, it already feels like it's rolling. It's much more enjoyable.

Josh: Yeah. Does the sheer amount of people in this city mean that venues have more people going to them? Like, so they, they are less empty, but it doesn't mean they're necessarily doing really well?

Grant: Not— I mean, I— you'd think so, but not really.

Josh: Yeah.

Grant: I mean, there's a handful of people. West Hollywood's kind of, you know, the 50-yard line of where everything's happening. So you're halfway between downtown, halfway to Santa Monica, it's kind of the centre of the universe over here. And it's also the rents you pay for it. But you know, Catch is busy, Ciccone's busy, we're busy. But along that same strip, you know, if you get your concept wrong when you're paying those rents, it's kind of, you're in and out pretty quickly. But, and people are still, it's a city of villages, they're so habitual. Like if to get me to go to Studio City across the hill, it's like, yeah, maybe. You know, go to Malibu, Yeah, Nobu, twice a year, you know. So I just think you got to be a neighbourhood restaurant first and foremost, irrespective of where you are on the planet. But don't get me wrong, on a Saturday night here, we can get 1,000 people trying to come through the doors because there's a lack of— there's either a nightclub and there's either a dedicated bar, there's none of this kind of thing where you can just mingle, a loungey kind of thing. I don't want to— as soon as you go to a nightclub, night's over. You can't—

Josh: what?

Grant: You know, you're not— it's a different kind of thing. So getting that blend, I think, is the hard part. And getting something where you have a restaurant that you can come for a meal, stay for the night, is kind of what we're trying to do as our sweet spot. Differentiate it.

Josh: You'd be in the know of the real estate around here. Like, I know Ackland Street in St. Kilda in Melbourne, there's someone that owns pretty much half the street, and then Balaclava and out to Collingwood. Is it a similar vibe here? There's a bunch of people that own a lot of the buildings.

Grant: Yeah, it's two families down here that own about $1.5 billion each of real estate down the Strip, and they just, you know, once you're in with them, they're nice people. But Melrose Place, they just sit there. They've been planning that, saying we're gonna hold out, Balenciaga come in, you know, you know, people would be applying, nah, nah, Chanel, great, because they want to replicate like Rodeo Drive kind of real estate prices. And by doing that, but they'll just let it sit for for 2 years because they're like, "I don't have the money." But yeah, they're very wealthy people, small pool of supply, and they're just regulating it.

Josh: And so how do you— what's the approach to get in with these people as a foreigner?

Grant: Look, anyone can get it, you just gotta pay enough idiot tax, you know? But it doesn't mean it's gonna guarantee that you're gonna be successful. They'll take your money, don't get me wrong, but it's sometimes just unpalatable, the rents, and Being in Melrose, does it— how much is it important to be in Melrose? Can it stand two streets back and still attractive? Is your concept gonna stand up? Whereas, does, you know, you're competing with Adidas, or as they say out here, Adidas, you know, to try and— they're gonna say, well, we don't— we need a retail presence. Or The RealReal, which is across the road from us, which you won't know back in Australia, but The RealReal is a consignment store where you've bought your Chanel jacket and you wore it twice and I want to sell it, so you give it to to them, they take 30% of the rev, you get 70% of the rev. So they're doing a billion dollars worth of sales a year on secondhand clothing, but they, they authenticate and make sure it's legit. But then they hold no stock. They just— I mean, as far as I'm not producing shit, you send me your stuff, I sell it, I take 30% of the clip, and it's 99% online. But they did one store on Melrose, they do one store in LA— in New York and that justifies 2 stores.

Tommy: What the fuck is this, by the way? Is this a— we saw this before.

Grant: That's Trump.

Tommy: Is it?

Grant: Yeah, that's an Osprey helicopter.

Josh: It looks like we're in some futuristic movie where the world's coming to an end.

Tommy: So what is that actually for?

Grant: What do they use that for? That'll be some—

Tommy: it's like a fucking drone or some shit.

Grant: Yeah, it's an army thing. That generally goes with whenever the presidential detail comes into town.

Tommy: Yeah. We saw it the other day and it looked quite alien-like.

Grant: Yeah, yeah, that's, that's my Uber Chopper.

Tommy: So with, with talking about that example, which is sort of, I guess they don't have that many overhead outside of the venue or whatever. Yeah, something like this, there are heaps of overheads. Where are the margins? Where do you actually make money in a venue like this?

Grant: Look, we've got the benefit of having, you know, an enormous enormous amount of venue events, ticket sales from this, you know, weekend liquor sales, food sales in the restaurant. We're just a busy spot. So it's the overall sum of the parts, but I think where we have wins is labour costs compared to Australia.

Tommy: Yeah.

Grant: And liquor costs compared to Australia is where you're getting that extra couple of margin points that allow you to do it. Don't get me wrong, the rents are just as expensive as Australia, if not more. But, you know, Melbourne, what we're talking about this week, it's been a tremendous Cup week. I'm sure everyone's looked unbelievable, but it's rained on Saturday, I understand. It rained on Oaks Day. It's raining on Stakes Day, and everyone's predicting to do enormous revenue at the Arbory Bar. Good on you, Richie. But if it rains in Melbourne a lot, yes, we haven't had rain here since May.

Josh: How's everything green, by the way?

Grant: Oh, because they ship it down from San Francisco.

Josh: The water.

Grant: Yeah, and they've still got the Aussie broom where they'll sit out the front with their hose like the old miners down in Rosebud and just spray the sidewalk.

Tommy: I'm like, is it a drought here?

Grant: Yeah, have you ever heard of some elbow grease, guys? Nah, out the front. And no one says anything. It's frightening.

Tommy: Yeah, it is crazy. Frightening. With the US currency, when it's going good against the Australian dollar, Do you invest in different ways? Do you say, hey, the US is doing really well, I'm gonna start doing more in Australia, or does it not really come into consideration?

Grant: Not really, I mean, at the moment it's sort of, for us, our next 2 years is here, and it would be a distraction for me to go and look at anything back home. Don't get me wrong, if it gets, if the Aussie peso really falls away and it gets to like in 50 cents or something, I'll go and buy a house back home 'cause it's double your money. That's attractive, but other than that, not really. I think it's kind of— we're earning US dollars here, and I guess, you know, we get the benefit of when I go home and sell that to the family.

Tommy: That's nice.

Grant: Yeah, but it's— and on the inverse, the tourism is a bit more challenged when the dollar's, you know, up against it, because, you know, people sitting there going, "That drink's freaking expensive," and "That hotel's not $200, it's $300." So, but, you know, as always when you're on holiday, it's got to think about it in the currency you're in, otherwise you have the worst time of your life.

Josh: Well, because then it actually is the same, but just when you put the conversion on, it kills you.

Grant: Yeah, it just, it ruins your holiday. Just gotta go, don't worry about it, leave it as it is.

Tommy: Yeah, so for Aussies coming to LA, what are 3 things that they can do, one thing in the morning, one thing in the arvo, and one thing at night, that's different to what everyone else is doing to have a great experience?

Grant: Well, Look, there's a thousand things you can do here. I guess depends where you're staying because that's a little bit of a driver.

Tommy: Yeah, sure.

Grant: I mean, you got to do a hike. It's one of those things, it's a quintessential Californian thing to do. And if you're on this side, of course, it's Runyon. You'll see more ripped bodies in the morning you've ever seen in your life. It's like it's tops off at 6:30, ready to go. Oh yeah, it's ridiculous. And if you're down, if you're down sort of Malibu way, you can go to Mascal Canyon, any of those ones. But look, there's a thousand online things for hikes. They're all— it's all fun.

Josh: What's your hike of choice?

Grant: I actually live right near Runyon, so it's kind of pretty easy, just go and bang it out. But I do it at sort of 5 in the morning when it's dark.

Josh: Yeah, still top off.

Grant: Oh, tops off, mate, always. And then I guess from like the afternoon and evening things, I mean, afternoon in California can be— in Australia we've always thought that you can never go to a pool, right?

Tommy: A hotel pool.

Grant: Yeah, all the hotel pools are free. Yeah, just go and sit by one. So even if you're not staying at addition, just go rock up and use their pool.

Josh: Oh, here in LA? Can you go to the Mondrian?

Grant: Yes, mate.

Tommy: Well, Tully keeps saying you can only go while I'm here.

Grant: Oh yeah, yeah, well, it's because she obviously doesn't want you to buy the pool with her. You can just go and rock up to the Roosevelt. They're happy to take your money, go sit by the pool, knock it out. So if you don't have a pool at your place or your Airbnb, go down to the Roozies, tell them I sent you, and you're good to go. But seriously, it's a great tip, and you can use that anywhere. Hotel pools, no problem.

Tommy: That's a great idea.

Grant: And then by night, look, I think one thing they do really well here is the dodgy sports bars. If you want to go to Barney's or one of those kind of ones and just get, you know, 15,000 beers on tap and more sports than you know what to do with. We think we've got sports here, you got all year round, there's NBA, there's college and then professional, then it's hockey, then it's, you know, it's just every every night something's going on. And if you can get to— if you can get to a Lakers game or a Clippers game at Staples, it's unbelievable.

Tommy: Is there any, any tips on getting tickets? They always just gonna be fucking expensive.

Grant: They are expensive, but always go to StubHub. StubHub is— if you get them last, last minute, if you're prepared to hold your breath and see what's what, wait half an hour, an hour before tip-off, they're either going to be empty or you can get a deal. And if it's just an online scan code, so you can get it 5 minutes before tip-off, be down on site, know you're going in, and just wait last-minute deal.

Tommy: Oh, awesome.

Josh: So America is known for, you know, thinking big. It's the land of opportunity. You, back when you're DJing, you're at Prince, you're in Aubrey, were you thinking big? Were you thinking this is on the cards for you?

Grant: I didn't think California was on the cards, but I mean, always, I always had multiple businesses. I'd, you know, I sold my DJ agency to Ministry of Sound, I sold my record label back to my partners because I just sort of didn't have any passion for it anymore, but I was always going to create new things. So I'm— I don't know if this is my forever career. I think probably the next step is going to be hotels or something like that. I don't know. But I don't think we're actually tied to anything anymore. I think you're only as limited as your own dream, but you've also got to have the stones to back it up. Yeah. My only thing is, I'd suggest, you know, you don't want to risk every single dollar you've got in your pocket to fulfil follow a dream. It's pretty boring to be, you know, especially the older you get. I don't have children, but if you had to, if you're risking your livelihood of your family or your children, you just can't do that anymore. But risk as much as you can afford to lose and just push it in.

Tommy: EPLP, is that a records reference? Like, what's—

Grant: yeah, yep. So extended play and long play, so the old, you know, 7 inches and, and 12 inches, they'll extend to play play. Luckily enough, the next cafe is called Strings of Life, and then Grandmaster Recordings, when we found the site and it was, you know, an old recording studio, I walked in and went, "Ah, fuck, that's how we're doing it." You know, so the musical undertone is just one that we've just decided is a thematic to travel through. It doesn't necessarily play a significant part. We have DJs here, but it's not, you know, we're certainly— it's just more of a reference to what was the past and and what is now my future.

Tommy: Yeah, it's an amazing spot. It's like we can see behind us. What hills are it? What are they?

Grant: Is it the Hollywood Hills?

Tommy: Hollywood Hills.

Grant: Yeah, Hollywood Hills behind us. So behind us is the Sunset Strip, just straight up back this way. It's beautiful. And at nighttime, you know, it's a pretty, pretty special spot to look up on. You know, there's not too many spots in the world like this. And funnily enough, you just got to find that magic. One street up is too close to the hill. You don't get the same sense. And then one street back, it's too far away. So It's perfect. You know, it's that lucky— well, it wasn't lucky. I think my business partner Dave was in real estate, so he did a great deal finding it.

Tommy: And you've made enough impact that no other one's gonna come here anytime soon?

Grant: No, I think we're good.

Tommy: Grant, thanks so much for coming on The Daily Talk Show. We've really appreciated all the time you've given us.

Josh: It's been awesome.

Grant: It's great to see you.

Tommy: It's The Daily Talk Show. hi@thedailytalkshow.com is the email address if you want to send us an email. Otherwise, see you tomorrow, guys.

Josh: See you guys.