#511 – Ryan Shelton On Empathy & Teamwork/
- November 9, 2019
Ryan Shelton has worked on some of Australia’s largest TV productions, as a comedian, writer and producer.
Ryan is incredibly hard working and talented, writing and producing Hamish and Andy’s Gap Year, True Stories, co-writing Chris Lilley’s award-winning Can We Be Heroes, and also appearing as a regular on Rove.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
– The pressure of LA
– Selling a show
– Planning for the year ahead
– Long term business relationships & supporting those in your team
– The search for validation
– Ryan’s time in radio
– Social media
– Mental health and self development
– Living with more empathy and kindness
– Work ethic in the US
Ryan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryansheltonography/
Email us: firstname.lastname@example.org
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business, and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
Daily Talk Show Episode 511 and we're at the top of Runyon Canyon we got Ryan Shelton hello hey buddy I can't believe I made it I always said get me on 511 and get me at the top and so we've got you at the top on the tub Iranian I want 511 and I want Come on until when you decide less flies. So unfortunately there's a lot of flies. Yeah, they like the sort of the sacred guest. I love running Can you because it's you always sit like that we just had a couple of people in full leather jacket like its first thing in the morning really hot didn't even really clock that that was weird. It's all it's all about fashion. Tiana while you're in Los Angeles, Mike, what are you doing here? I'm just I'm saying friends doing a little bit of work.
There's not really
a better story to say friends bit of work. So yeah.
was the last last time you were in, in our life when was probably, I think three years ago. But then four years ago was here in 2015. For the Back to the Future. 30 year anniversary. That's right. And that was Yeah, that was a that was one of the nerdiest times of my life. I feel like I've seen a photo in you in the boots or the jacket or something. Yeah, was that it was that time? Well, could have been any time in my life. But yeah, that was certainly those. So for those who don't know, back to the future, to he goes into the future to 2015. So in 2015 on the date that he went in the future, these people organize this big
convention, he thing that went for five days. It was it was wild flood the people that I met on that were perfect. Is that something that you nerd out about? I don't so much anymore. I feel like that was like my, my swan song. Yeah. And then he realized that he wasn't there. He hadn't actually traveled to the future in 2015 was a real role Whiting three
Did you ever feel a pressure to, you know, like rove did the whole moving to LA thing? Did you? Did you ever think about doing something like that? Not really. I don't. I mean, I love it here but it's also a I find it quite tough DOD. Not that I've ever lived here but I would find it quite tough. If you didn't have a reason to be here. Yeah, like the you weren't just saying some friends and if you went begging slash pitching, which is what most people are, like, just spending your days doing. I feel like it's quite a I mean, some people like strive offer but I don't really thrive off it.
Some people thrive, others thrive. Yeah, some people
are older. And you know, I was saying to my wife last night, I don't think I could do the grind here. Like it's hard enough. Yeah, babies not back home in Melbourne where it's, you know, beautiful conditions. Yeah, actually, not the weather Shut up.
But, you know, it's like it's much easier that life I feel back home like you see the struggle here in Los Angeles. You see the poverty, it's it's super bad. But it's like this weird utopia because you look behind there's like how, you know, celebrity houses. And then there's a guy with a, you know, trolley. It's like It's like a big game of musical chairs. And there's like a million people and there's like 100 chairs, but the hundred chairs are like behind four doors that you got to find a special case. Even if you get to the chairs, and you won't even get a seat. That's it's tricky. What do you do when you come to LA? Like, are there certain food places you have to go to or kinda like Canter's deli, which is like this sort of all old fashioned like old Hollywood Jewish deli coming place. And that's that's pretty like those sorts of places are like Mel's drop Mills diner. We did that. Yeah, this guy was one of the after we did run in the dogs wearing shoes
and it's wearing a leather jacket.
Nothing we we go to Ibiza for this trip It was very lucky that we even got it
media visa which we probably like we've done as well yeah we normally do like the esters and all that sort of thing just rock up and then we had a moment of like are we going with good maybe we should do it yeah and I started filling out the form and then halfway through panics because you have to do all this stuff and you have to have like a consulate appointment or yeah it's really hard and we only do this like a month before we were leaving like you pay the money and there's no guarantee yeah so then we how would we do it otherwise we've ruined him with pay for the flights. What are you on a visa here are you I'm just yeah cuz I'm using this stuff. Yeah, just it's just like meetings and you don't mind me doing proper work so yeah, just the what's it like with debt when you were doing gap here and things like that doing going overseas? Did you guys playing all that sort of stuff? Well, yet you go I yeah, those things. I mean, I didn't have to do them, but I made
There was like, I mean, there was there was like heaps of phases, whatever you call them. But I think now, because we just did the show, perfect holiday, we filmed it here. I didn't come over but for that the visa process was a lot harder. It's like now you literally have to like line up at Donald Trump's office and ask for permission. That's what he's spending his days doing just like yes or no two phases.
When we had Andy on he was telling us about the process of selling true stories. The world and there was like, you know, that big conference over in? Is it France where you were there's a bunch of TV shows being sold. Yeah. Have you been to any of those festivals? Well, I went to be just before me where true story got first got sold.
I went with team who we work with as well, Tim Bartley and we went over because Warner Brothers got line by sort of bought the rights or secured the rights to be added sell it around the world. So we went to the kind of pre conference
I think it's called a creative conference. And we went there and presented the show like did like this big PowerPoint presentation on on True Story, teaching them what it is and blah, blah, blah. Did you actually get into the tools? Did you like play around with keynote at animations and shit and what did we do? I think it was Mike maybe even a program called pressie. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think Tim likes president. What is that a free version? It's all web based. I think. Yeah. I mean, it's, I haven't used the teachers love it. I think you can really just like get into like, you can do graphs and it's
got the NYPD, LAPD, you know, legit is the LAPD ever since I said
yeah, I mean,
I mean, the other day we saw like a
helicopter flying over us. The patch was almost like a drone thing. That was like multiple. Yeah, it was just a shoot. Yeah, it was a film shoot. That was very low. I wonder if we set them off. Anyway.
Yeah probably well you don't say camera that often the mail
How do you plan what you're going to do for a year? Are you looking at your head?
Not really. I mean, this isn't a strange thing we not that we plan a little bit ahead but with that right here karate, which is our company we were very much like a one show at a time company.
We so bad at multitasking show so we we just do like the one show and then we finish that and then once that's finished, then we go okay, now what are we going to do? As opposed to most normal, intelligent production companies who have like multiple things going on? That's a smarter financial thing, but because we all work on it, like hands on we just like we don't want to stop getting to make it Yeah, he's I mean, he's a smarter, it may be a smarter financial thing businesses it is it is it a smarter creativity thing like you're getting the best out of the show?
by just doing one at a time, yeah, well, we think so especially the way that we work because we've, the way that we've come up.
We started on you smoking stuff on channel 31 in Melbourne. So we we've just always done it the way that we do it now. It's just the only way we know. And not nothing's The only thing that's really changed is the style. But the general way we approach it is the same. Like we all sit in the Edit suites together and edit and like it's the same. Yeah, we've committed to do the daily talk show for 10 years. There's not many right yeah. So there's a way to win nearly two years in with 1010 felt like a if we look at what we love and the things that are out there. It takes time. Yeah. And so I think that it's really easy to get a year in two years in three years in and it gets a little bit hard and then you quit. How many episodes will be over 3000 Yeah, which doesn't sound like that. Many
podcast. Yeah, there was that. Yeah, there's one I'm trying to Keith and the girl, which is a New York based podcast. They're sort of very indie. And yeah, that they were doing it from oh five and I think they're in the 3000s yet, but so there aren't there aren't that many people who have stuck to something for a significant amount of time, which is why I think it's exciting for us to karate guys. How long? How long is that thing? Doing it? Well, we we probably it was sort of a gradual start. But we started, we made real stories, which was our first proper show. And that was in 2006, I think. Yeah.
And we Yeah, we've done about 3000 episodes of that there was
because when you said that
Before that you did the that mockumentary that was based in a
house on a stick the gray stone 2800 Yeah. So that was before that. So that was part of a channel seven pilot that we didn't get up that we made at CHANNEL SEVEN. Yeah. And then that was we took that little sort of one of the sketches that we did as part of that sort of Tonight Show variety show pilot thing. Because it didn't get up we just took that and entered into a into a short film, this Comedy Festival short film competition. And that's what got us real stories. Do You Do you remember the the thinking around the time that you didn't get the thing up? So you didn't get the TV show that to see a full season? Yeah. Do you remember what you're thinking then before you started having the wind?
Nothing. I mean, I wasn't. I just was just thinking, well, we'll just see what happens. We were pretty young, like we were only
were like early 20s or something. So we didn't
Like, I certainly wasn't thinking it would go anywhere else. I just always thought, Well, the next ones will do that. And then we'll start because I didn't want to be greedy.
So I never really, I never really expected it. I hope that it will, but I never expected it to go any further than what it did. So when did you know that it was going to be something that you guys were going to commit to for a longer period of time? Probably after, probably after you've finished
when road finished and I finished up on Nova, I did like over 40 years after that, that's when we did gap year and that was the that was the first time where we kind of really broke out on our own and, and decided we do this show called a Mercedes gap year. And then we went to New York and that was what that was the first one was like, well, this is a real thing now. Yeah, was in 2011. What does it take to have long business and creative relationships do you think will probably mean patients
Probably the big ones I reckon, I think, especially in a creative in a creative world,
everyone is just worried if they good enough most the time, like even entertain everyone, you know, everyone's got your back. I think one of the things that you're constantly maybe this isn't me just projecting, but we all
but not it's you just want to be contributing enough to make to make your position worthy. And so I think in especially in a group of friends, which we are, we've all come up together we've all started from high school together. So there are different times with people doing different things and American. The key to it is if you have that kind of empathy, understanding of each other on where each other coming from always trying to think of, how can I help the other people? That's that's the goal, at least, that's I mean, that's the best way
Approach nothing more talking about love languages on ip 500 just in a team dynamic understanding how Josh needs to be traded or you know, told some words of affirmation, that he's doing something good. Now, yeah. Are you doing good?
for you in that team environment with your mates? Do you think they understand how to help you along in time? I think so. Yeah. And it's taken the long taken a long time. I mean, I work with Hans and Andy obviously. And so that's they've had this sort of, but they've been quite successful. I don't know if you've been following him.
I mean, she's the girl.
Actually, you know, it kind of everything.
I only say that because when I was at Melbourne airport coming over here, the customs guy was asking me what I'm coming over for and, and it's like, what do you do? And I said, I will work me to travel.
was actually the visa questions. Were
You say then what Tommy was throwing at you.
Anyway, so he said, Oh, who do you Who do you work with? What do you do? So I work in TV. He's like, what do you make? And I said, if you ever heard of a machine Andy, and he was like, Oh, yeah.
Hi Mrs. To go.
Nice is the guy. Andy is the guy.
Yeah, yeah. Anyway, it was funny. So but, but I think because of that, because I've been, I've had such a, like, ridiculous meteoric success, success. I've within that group, I've just sort of slowly had to find my role within that, like, how do I support them in that when, because I really I perform as well and I ride as well. And it's, it's, it's been like a really interesting, I guess, like, journey for one of a better time to sort of figure out how that balance works for my own stuff. And it's an
It's just great now like I've sort of, in the last couple of years sort of found that, that happy balance between like, well, I can just do my stuff over here, and I do this stuff over here. And it doesn't have to be exclusive. Doesn't have to be just the one thing. I mean, you might not be looking for a bit validation. I think we all appreciate when we know what we're doing is working or connecting. What is it for you that is an indicator of or gives you validation? Well, I think
knowing that people are benefiting or knowing that it's, it can help knowing that it's helping people contribution I reckon is the big, the big one, the what I'm sort of more focused on now. Because the validation, the search for validation is a dark, gloomy Hall, because it's sort of it's sudden, I find that sort of never enough like even even if you get validated once then if you if you value that, then you're going to keep wanting it and
in my, in my experience like that's just it's a bit of an empty, it's an empty goal. So should people not chase that? Is there? Is there anything to gain from winning and loading? Well, that I mean, there is in the sense that it might help you get another job. And TV networks, like Channel Nine really likes it when we win, like he's. So from that point of view, it's beneficial from the point of view that we can then continue to make the show which hopefully makes people happy. Like that's, that's, that's the only reason why we would like to win one. Have you ever believed the hype? where it has been affected you in a in a way that's not necessarily positive? I thought, Well, I mean, working at commercial commercial radio is, is just a hot machine that can just be shut down at any moment. And that's, it's a fascinating world because it's an incredible opportunity that you get because also, I do
Dr. Show for two years with with her and Monte you moved up to Sydney for that night and I was in Melbourne Yeah, that was Melbourne. Monte moved up to see Manchester after that. Okay, so that wasn't with it yet. Yeah. And so so that that's an example where you when you when you join up like when they sign you up, you're the Messiah, like you're the answer to all their problems and they just love everything you do and it's it's feels great. Is that a setup? Is it a said like you said putting the pressure on now that you've gone through it? Are there signs were created where you can take learnings as a creative way if this is happening? This doesn't mean x. Happy man. Sorry. So like I guess if you are the was the truth in that homeless I think do you think that that was beneficial to your growth? For sure. Overall, I'm glad I'm so glad I did it. Yeah. A bit that it it's kind of like the equivalent of what people talk about when they take like meetings in LA and
People is often people come back from LA if they're coming over to pitch or to take meetings with agents or whatever they're trying to do. Usually, the hot is is pretty strong in that first meeting, because no one wants to miss out on the next big thing. So your real your ties are really pumped up. Like it should be a form of life coaching, like just taking first meetings in LA
would really make you feel great. But But yeah, but I think
I've lost my train of thought. So you
just just think like that commercial radio experiences, right? Getting getting in there. Yeah, I find that interesting. So does that does that run out eventually, like when did when did the things start to peel away and revealed that actually, this isn't all roses? Well, it's when if you don't write well, I mean, you guys know this. It's like if you don't write well
not writing it.
drive the stock price down.
Not that when you're not when you're not doing well, obviously there, you know, commercial radio station is all about selling ads. They exist for really the end of the day. So if you're not writing Well, they're not selling ads and you're not doing your job. So I think that was a realization I had pretty quickly there. I kind of went in with
rose tinted glasses thinking that I can do this differently, and I can do it my own way. And then you realize pretty quickly that you are one little mini cog in an enormous thing. And you don't even know you're on the Billboard, it doesn't really don't really matter. It's what I've always found fascinating because it's, you're the face of the business. But then this whole other thing that needs to happen as well for the business to operate. And so does it give you a false sense was there a learning over the two years of
fact this isn't what I thought it was in terms of
Official yeah yeah but that I wasn't I didn't I try not to be too resentful about it because if you like earning money it's great. Yeah like if that's if that's a driver then it's a really good thing but if that's not the most important thing to you then it can be a little bit
tough because at that time was grind like I loved when we were on air it was sort of all the other
the bits and pieces that came along with it like all the meetings with clients and and stuff and I mean you know, you know that that experience you guys will know this experience the integration meeting yes I we integrating with a brand So, for example, if you
if you go
if you go the boss will come to you and say hey Colgate are really keen on. They love the show.
At the same time, I love love
You guys are doing some great and they're willing to put like a million dollars into the show. We don't say that.
We're willing to put a million dollars into the show and they just love you guys to help with an idea for a couple of weeks, whatever you want. They love you guys. So if you guys one day, and you're like, oh, whoa, okay, that's, that's cool. They really love the show.
Which bits of I love and grace but otherwise.
So you come up with an idea which you think is really funny, spend a couple hours and you come up with an idea. And then everyone's like, this is great, they're gonna love it. And then they go away and pitch it to call guy and then like a dialogue. Guys, they love it. I love the idea. This thinking whether or not you can do something they really want to focus on meant.
Like they really want to focus on like a minty fresh idea. Like what say, their whole thing is like fresh. So like an idea that includes freshness. Like Yeah, not know what will we like the other idea and like
Absolutely, totally. Now I'll go back to that. Yeah, if I know you may, I know you may. And so then you go back. And they, you know, they're, they're pretty, pretty keen on the freshness thing. And then we try and come up with an idea and we can and we like, we just really liked the other one. And they're like, yeah, the only thing is, so that would mean we would lose million dollars.
So, if you if you guys want to do it, if you guys don't want to do it, then that's fine. I'll just have to go to sales and, and the boss and let them know that you came to support the company, give them a million dollars, like, fine, we'll do it. So that that's that that was most the time and that sounds like I'm winging. It was an amazing opportunity. You know, they make you feel it immediately. Like you have this control of the creativity and it's just the job. It's like, it's just that commercial building commercial radio, right. It's built it's almost built into the Yeah, to the name how much you think about audience when when you're doing creating things, specifically around the radio stuff.
Well, yeah, I mean, I think for the radio stuff, particularly that that's probably the most I've ever thought about it. Because it is, because it's a very specific, but it's a very specific audience who respond to very specific things. And because you're told all the stats that you know, people only listen for five seconds. What do you do? So what was some of the stats? And what were the little hacks that you would do? Well to try and I mean, these are pretty standard, like radio things, but I think they decide that it's like the standard listening time is 15 minutes for any listener or something like that, and in drive time, and, and because of that, the thing I went into that show thinking was that I will do a two hour slot. So you structure a two hour show. And the thing that they they sort of dropped into you pretty quickly is that like, no one's listening for two hours. Yeah, maybe a couple of people. But the so what you got to do is imagine like every 15 minute increment is like a nice show. And so don't worry about callback jokes or whatever. I mean, obviously, the really
Good shows with dedicated listenership do that. Like you know Matt Molloy names and Andy does really great shows, you know, have that huge dedicated listener base, but when you starting out you just I had these grand plans of, you know, out of the gates with Martin Malloy.
What I was hoping, but it's just obviously it's a different thing. Did you have a favorite foreigner that you did? I loved doing well, it wasn't really fun as well. I loved I used to do this thing, which I kind of just I wish I could just do now because I had so much fun. I don't know. Let's do it now. Not it requires people calling.
We got we got some OZZ watching
Runyon Well, it was the thing where people because people are constantly calling Nova the station all day like for prizes and things. And so I would just guys pigs prize. We call them pigs behind the
prize pizza. I think it's, I think that you stand by it too. If you're fucking calling non stop. It's a bit of a gronk
Serial price peak.
And he he's a unique swan.
really unique one. Yeah. Well, I said I used to go in there and they'd be calling in. And I just, I'd pick up one of them and go. And I'd pretend I was an automated Nova crime response and to just sort of play with all the things that they would have to do to continue the conversation. That's like, Hello, welcome to Nova. If you'd like to continue the call, say, wolf. And that would just go for 1520 minutes. And some people, it was amazing that they would just continue to do these ridiculous things like press 529365. And there's BP they want that fucking prize. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've said on the phone, 45 minutes, and I can't believe I've got three to something. Yeah. So that was fun. I wish I wish I could do that again. What's your relationship with social media? Well, so it's a tricky one. It's a it's complicated. It's a it's a
I love it. And I hate it, I guess like many people
bought, I went off it I went off it for a while, like I was really into it for a long, long time. And I would make lots of videos and I really got into it. I made like a series on Instagram called Cliff like a couple of seasons of this stupid soap opera called
episodes of 15 seconds. And so I love it from a point of view of exactly kind of like what you guys do, which is just like the ability. There's no middleman, direct to audience. Like that is an incredible race. And I feel like you're you're good at taking it and applying creativity or creative thinking to it, which it feels like it's not necessarily the default thinking nowadays. Yeah, I don't know. Well, yeah, I certainly like it.
I guess I locked the platforms when I first start because it's a bit of a fresh slight Yeah. And I love I love
Instagram, so much for that reason, particularly when the when the episode and the episodes this in videos for 15 seconds. Feel like now it's obviously become a TV channel like it's become a time thing if you have a certain amount of followers you can put on hour long episodes, hour long shows on Instagram TV sets. Yeah change like when Snapchat first started. I love Snapchat like Snapchat when it first started from memory it was you just have your friends. Yeah, that you post to. And there was no stories at all you can do it. Yeah. So it was a personal thing to do that. I mean that lift, lift, lift, lift, lift, lift,
lift, lift, lift stopped. Can't wait to make that gift.
That was great content. I remember. And then every time I'm in a lift, I'm always just thinking I'm in LA. Yeah, well, it was a great time because it was it was when it was I'm sure snapchats still is this but because the videos disappeared.
Yeah, after however long after one watch it was back then I never watch it once and it's gone. So it's this sort of the fee was sort of arise, you kind of just do whatever you want. And with that, that feeling of how this is going to live on forever. And that that that's a that that is what I really enjoyed so, so with social media, I think I, I like it, but I'm very cautious about at bat, especially the way that it kind of sucks you into the validation, the need for them that kind of clicks like Yeah, well, I think some people wouldn't consciously know the why of why they using it, right. So they, they want to be famous or they want to grow something, build a business, and they feel the anxiety around doing the thing. But I think that can even translate to people who have already had a lot of success in their thing. So you know, your TV shows early days, the radio stuff as a time when these platforms weren't at where that
Now, but what did you experience the, like, you almost felt obliged to I have to do the social media thing. Yeah. And I think probably that's why I backed away from it because I felt I felt kind of like an obligation to. And the online presence thing just just doesn't sit well with me around the the brand thing just, it's never and that's probably to my detriment like I know, for sure. If I had like this, this audience that I was constantly mind like sustaining and talking to and engaging with, I know that would probably help my ability to get TV shows even I think challenge challenging with that thinking of not everyone can actually handle doing it. There's some people who just it's it's a workout, there's checking the phone messaging back, it's like nothing doesn't they don't feel it. I think I feel the pressure and I don't necessarily like it. And I don't know how productive that pressure is, for you know, for the mission. We're on with the talk show here. Because how it
How often you guys like constantly? I guess it's it's a, it's a pretty consuming project easier when you have a brand that's not yourself that you can post on. So having the daily talk show as an Instagram account, it feels like even though it's asked it gives a level of protection, there's all of us. Yeah. And so it doesn't feel as strongly weighted on to our individual. Yeah, sort of, because if someone calls us a banker, they're actually calling Josh. Oh, yeah.
That is good. You can sort of share the bank.
Yeah, but so social media, I like it.
I kind of I wish I'd made more on it. But there's something about being on it. I just, I don't I feel a bit dirty or something. Is it the, the connections or whatever? Like, what if you were to remove an element because they obviously removed viewing live
So that's, that's one thing. But what part of it do you think sort of spoils the whole thing for you? Well, I went through a phase of, of doing a system where I would post something, and then automatically delete the app. Yeah, so I didn't have the temptation to check because even though you find out so you
turn the phone. Yeah, close down the account.
Just really subtle things. But I, I was sort of so unconsciously addicted to finding out if it was good or not. And then I heard someone on a huge, so this guy, Hugh van Kahlenberg, I make this podcast with the imperfect. So he told me this, he does this. He has this company called the Resilience Project. And he's done like all this research on on all this sort of stuff. And one of the things he found out was the, so many of the people employed at Instagram and Facebook, who, whose job it is to keep you
You engaged to keep you on the app. They all have. If you look at their surveys, they've all come from like a slot machines. Yeah. And poker poker machine. Because the whole idea of poker machines is to keep you sitting there and keep playing. And Facebook and Instagram. It's the same, it's just like they all they want me to do is just keep playing. And so so many of the tricks like the pull down to refresh, and even things like apparently on Twitter or Facebook, you know, it sort of takes an extra bait for your notifications thing to show up. Yeah, yeah. Like it doesn't actually take that long. But they hold it off. Yeah, it's like the it's like a poker machine. So you need to check it because now it's not like this lights a little light. Yeah, build of anticipation.
And then another thing apparently is this I think someone else I forget who told me this. But another thing apparently that Instagram does, is if you if you take a photo of yourself, it can recognize that it's it's your face.
And it will hold off. So if you post that and then you close the app or you turn your phone off, it will hold that off from people's fades for longer. Really? Because it plays on your kind of insecurities while people don't like the shot of me. So you're constantly checking it. What about this? I think even like the little things like the same thing in Damn, like when someone's saying your message Yeah, that can really fuck with you because you're like if they say I've seen it I haven't written back yet or
they've written something I can't say the whole message I want to say the whole message but I don't want to show that insane Yeah, well, they predicting the story we're going to tell about specific part of it. Yeah, well, we think we think that we can kind of game the system but they just know everything we're like, we're gonna do they know how we're trying to game the system and Linda's changing the app to do it. So yeah, it's it's not obviously not something I'm like, super passionate
about, but from a creative point of view, it's brilliant. So yeah, it's kind of a it's it's hot.
defined that for me, it's hard to find that balance. Yeah. Do you think you found the balance in terms of Korea? And what it means the social media? Not really because I should I mean, if from a career point of view I should be putting stuff up all the time, but I just don't feel
like drawn to do it for those reasons that I just did something about it. It doesn't feel quite right. Yeah, it's it's a shame because I do I do like it when I do it. But I'm just as haven't got the motivation to do it anymore. And I think it's because of what it kind of represents or something. Where do you spend most of your time in life? Do you think it's
refreshing? Yeah, like what like, what what are you doing? I guess, like if we've got these two leavers. One being time one being money. I'm curious, curious as to, to those two things like what do you spend more money on than most people would spend or where are you prioritizing those two things time
And then money
pools confronting question
time and money I think
more and more I'm trying to spend time outside of the city and trying to kind of
try to get out of the kind of hustle bustle CBD CBD. So I gotta understand Canada
Yeah, I'll try like getting like this sort of thing. It's sort of seems like a good kind of balance balances me out a little bit
so that that's that's become an important thing I've also like more and more in the last couple of years and this is why I started the YYQ and I started the podcast, but writing a lot of bad
about like, mental health stuff. And I guess just like self development stuff is just really interested me is a lot like a lot of people on I especially in the comedy industry, friends of mine strong
with depression a lot and I sort of felt like it was sort of time to figure out how to how to help them if I could understand how it worked. And so, so a cat that sort of six months ago, something I started seeing a psychologist regularly. To have Caitlyn, it helps me but it also just really I can talk to her about things that my friends are doing and to get money, like how I get an understanding from someone who actually knows what they're talking about, of how I can help them or how I can, but what's the right thing to say? As opposed to me just being like a just guesswork guesswork therapy with my friends? And what did it What did you learn from that experience? What was the first psychologist appointment like? Well, the first one for anyone who's been in the first couple, you feel like you're wasting your money because you're just telling her your story. Yeah. And so you just sort of spend the first couple just go, Well, this is an I don't really say anything. Well, at least in my experience, I don't like signing the digital listing.
And after like two sessions like cheese.
I'm just doing all the talking here Teach me life.
Were you self conscious of the things because I wonder about a first session. I haven't been to a psychologist. That's something I want to try. It feels like I wonder I'm like, did they want to go like way back today? What like, do we go like, hey, I've been thinking about this thing that happened, like when I was a kid, and I always like, perfect. Yep. Is that what you do? Well, it depends, like, there there are different types of therapists as well. So there's, there's like psychotic like traditional psychologists like the woman I say, she works in something. I think it's a thing. It's called, like positive psychology, but then some shit positive, it's pretty depressing. But then there's another there's like another
like psycho analysts as well. So psycho analysis is kind of like what you usually say on the movies with people along on the couch. And, and and that's usually something where people on the
therapist isn't saying that much. So you're just sort of the point of psychoanalysis apparently is, you just say whatever's on your mind. Even if you think you got nothing to talk about you just say like I'm just thinking about one for an ice cream with my friend Sarah yesterday. It's improv cast it's Yeah.
So if you haven't I think it's like after that game for six months, it's something that I just recommend
every single person even if you think you're the happiest person you're bound to know someone who isn't
has improved your relationships massively massively you help you to help the people around you Yeah, and myself like I definitely get a lot out of it as well. I'm, it's mainly I get the hell out of it. And I luckily don't have any sort of mental ill health or anything.
I've been pretty lucky in that sense. But that doesn't mean I still don't get overwhelmed or get anxiety about something and to be out of figure out
Not only how to get through it, but also where it's come from. And why? Because once you understand the why it kind of makes it a little bit easier to deal with, I find.
And even like, everyone's got those relationships in their life that that have been like a little bit stagnant for years, and it's sort of just, it's gotten worse and worse and worse, and you haven't addressed it. And you don't really know why it's weird. It's just always been weird. And, you know, it could be a sibling thing or a parent thing or colleague or whatever. So do you address that now or no? Or how do you deal with it with the person? Yeah, well, I mean, ideally, you should and I haven't quite gotten to that yet stage yet. But that that's the whole point is that you, you kind of realize, I mean, empathy, like I said before, it's such a big one because once you
you know, if someone does something really horrible, like if someone ran up here and just push the camera, they wouldn't go far from
I'll be right there with you right?
Fucking heading Yeah.
When I think of Josh Janssen
stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp no more.
Put him in the back.
So the relationship that because I'm very curious, you go you have all of this growth, but not necessarily the people around you aren't necessarily growing at the same right? And so, we are superior being.
So you sitting down like, do you feel like you need to have those conversations? Or like you said you weren't necessarily there yet.
You know, you need to have some high
conversations that you haven't yet had them. Well, I'm an eye. Everyone does like and I know that I mean, I've they're not bad they're not really bad. But certainly there are things there people that you have in your life that you there's a block there there's something that is that seems a bit. And it could be because of the thing that you think it is, but it might not be. Yeah. So it could be this like that. I I didn't I didn't go to their farewell party when they left five years ago. Yeah. And I haven't heard from them since so they're probably annoyed me about that. And so how do you deal with that sort of thing? Because I guess we can create a story like that's why they're upset. Yeah. Is it? Is it alien form to go up and say hi, are you upset because I didn't go to your farewell party.
I mean, I don't really I mean, I don't really want to give people advice on it, but it's but that's essentially what it would be I think and, but also before you do that it's taking because
I'm not trying not to get out of my comfort zone.
Out of my expert level here but when when
when you when you kind of act from when the when your ego is in charge of what you're doing you create a story around something yeah so this is what from what I've read at least is that you like if someone goes and pushes the camera down the media day because Josh is stopped absolutely you know that
you can have a moment to consider what you've done once you've fled the country what visa
v on your visa you could come in and out as much as as a stone palm Yeah, I mean like
should I but then it's the immediate thing to go is like they're trying to ruin our show is the immediate thing that most people would assume and you go like oh, they're trying to ruin our show that prick let's dump them. But, but what what is what people say is the is the kind of better thing to do is to go like Well, that's
Who knows if that's true, they might be like severely
likely to be autistic or something. Who knows what's happening with them. So the people say that the first thing you should always do in those situations is like to remove how it's affecting you and an effect, remove the story and just empathize with what they could be going through. reckon it's harder being empathetic in such a,
in a city that has such a disparity. Like I feel like yesterday, I had a moment where a guy was asking for a quarter, I didn't have any money. And I was like, I if I didn't like it, he's an old guy. He's at the beam. He's going through the being a monk if he's at that level, yeah. And so do you think that like, being more of an empath of thinking that way? Does it make life a little bit trickier as an individual? Not? Well, I think I think if you do it consistently, I think it would make you extremely happy. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think it's because that's essentially just kindness. How's that change? Or how does that change around
actions do you think what are you doing well lowers your anxiety levels massively because you're not taking on these you know making up these fake stories that then get you angry and annoyed. It's like this getting annoyed in traffic is the kind of classic one if someone comes in traffic oh yeah you fucking stop it
Yeah, you got
don't stop him in America leads this gun. So we just we actually were actually very well but like in America. I don't get annoyed at all. We get sued.
Anyone in America
you wouldn't on your face. You guys haven't?
We could die. Yeah, with this. Oh, yeah. UK pushing
each other awesome. Absolutely.
Yeah. So anyway, that's that's the sort of in a nutshell, that's the sort of stuff that that I've been thinking a lot about. And it's it's really, it's really fascinating. What does it mean to be an individual in a creative team?
Really good question.
That's a great one.
Well, it's to put aside your it's probably to put aside your individual goals, but not not but but also acknowledge your individual strengths. So to know your to know what your strengths are in a team and realize that will that's how I'm going to be the best teammate is to do my best but that means that I have to be like, acknowledged What am I really good at? How am I going to be? But not like, but what am I really good at within this team? Not like Well, I'm really good at footy. So I could go and start a footy time with all these other losers ran come play footy. Yeah, but I can. Yeah. So it would be. I think that you need to have to do you have to communicate your strengths. Like if you're in a team, where there's someone who has a similar strength to you? does it become a game of who's who has the better strength of
Well, that probably that would be a thing. I mean, I think Luckily, in the time that I'm in, where we've got a pretty diverse
a good mix and balance of of strengths. What about something more universal? Like being the funny guy? Yeah. So say if I want to be the funny guy, but Tommy also thinks that he's the funny guy. Yeah, it's tricky. So, like, how do you work out those like more sort of holistic or themes in regards to like, hey, in a team, there can be more than one funny person. Definitely. Yeah. And so then what's the How do you then deconstruct it to the point where you getting individual strengths that can work together? Well, I think then, that's sort of like a radio skill, which is just generosity, generous performing way, way if you obviously the funny you both are, the better the show is going to be and the more successful it is.
the worst case scenario is both of you just trying to be the funniest
individually and it becomes competitive. That's never fun. Well, I think that's what's good about like, we're not comedians, we're not even a comedy podcast. So it does take the pressure off a little bit. For sure. But if but the better way to do it would be like, how can I make Yolanda my Tommy funny? Yeah, I could write his jokes. Yeah. I mean, that's why I like
you should have to feed him lines. Right? Tell me before we start, he's 20 different bits. That just you try and do them and I'll laugh at them. He's actually he's actually done that before given me a bit and I've delivered it way better. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Does. He's on Britain's Yeah, it never goes. Well. Yeah, I can
tell you right bit. I've done some beats guy, but then bombs on the bit. So what we did in and so we were emceeing a Nando's event. And I'm like, I need some bits. Yeah. And so I was like, Okay, I want to do a bit on Perry based things and how hot they are. Yes, go
And so, what the beat was was I was gonna say, Okay, everyone, I just thought I'd check the temperature in the room. Yep. Have we got any lemon and Herbes in the room who loves lemon and herb and I went through them all. Yeah.
I was panicked. And so that bit came out. Yeah. Hey, everyone, welcome. I was just talking to cat from Nando's and more over at the sources are thinking about what source you like
until the whole temperature bit went away and then did that but did the audience know that you're kind of like, nobody knows a bit.
Just general, I
think what we've built is something where we can in the moment get better about the fact up or what's
not. Post story actually comes from it. It's funny the 500 I got to do the temperature bit how was mentioned because Nando's was catering the event and so I got the event that they were the 500
So we did the event for them, like, influences, hashtag influences. And then the following two weeks later, they were there. And so I got to do the beer tired and it went really well went really well. It was a supportive crowd that heard the trauma like after
a wins in the Curia versus the ones where you've been in the creative team. So working with radio karate, and the success you guys have had, but then the radio show that you land which which one felt bigger, and which one was more satisfying. at an individual level or team demand, right a radio the radio show or even more like individual stuff, even like looking at the stuff that you've done with clear for this or even
will arrive was probably like being on the on the on the rideshare was probably probably one of my favorite things because that was a it was this sort of
We had time where I had this really great platform, but this strange level of freedom to explore what I was what I could actually do.
That was put them in individually, but also with Tim, like, Tim and I made all the segments I did, we made them together.
And, and that was a really good learning thing. And so I think, from the start of, when I was on road till the end of when I was on Drive, I developed what felt like
a style of songs, at least for that, for that point in my life. And that was and that was great. That was, that was really fun. But then from the from the team point of view doing doing True Story was was pretty amazing, because that was a huge collaborative. That's like hundreds of people in the throughout the life of the show that you get to collaborate on. And now where because we was when are selling it to other countries who are making it themselves. We get to kind of travel and go
These countries and like consult on their versions of True story. So that that from that point of view, that was a really fun time thing. What happens to creativity and comedy when you get older, like as you get as it has it changed it's dirty,
video. And so I think it like I guess I was just imagining those rough days of you and Tim just put the camera going out and being zany and just fucking getting in. Yeah, getting out there versus the posture you would bring to it now. Well, I guess the more you learn, the more that might be the more cautious you are. And so when you when you're starting out, whether you're younger on or not, but when you're starting out, you kind of throw caution to the wind a little bit because you don't know what you don't know. And as soon as you do know it, then that's another box you have to take before you start. Yeah. So I mean we're still able to do like Cliff as
Like Believe it or not, we were throwing caution to the wind with cliff. It wasn't a lot of consideration that windy Cliff except for shopping trip it came out where I go to Wigan some pajamas. Now but other than that, but does it get a little bit harder Do you think or or not? It doesn't get harder. It just it just changes it. If anything, some of it gets easier because you you kind of know how to do it more you know when you need and you know why something's not working. You can fix it, and it doesn't become stressful. It becomes an exciting challenge to fix something What does holiday Ryan do that local Melbourne Ryan doesn't to
It doesn't mean you
but i am i'm pretty regular stuff.
Guess I guess you say people that you wouldn't normally say it's like you
routines completely change, and especially being here.
If not only been here for a couple of days, it's just the pace is very different. Do you feel like you're more adventurous? Do you go out more? You?
It's time I think. I think it's pretty similar. Yeah, yeah. I don't feel like it's that much different, to be honest, except for obviously where you are. But because I don't I don't have children or anything, anything like that I'm
it's sort of a similar, it's a similar sort of thing. Yeah. And so you were you spent how long in New York? How long you guys are in? We were there for four months in 2011. And we did a bit of travel around but it was, yeah, that woman that was an that was a great. That was a great time stressful. But that was a great time doing gotcha. Did you feel like he lived there? Or did it always feel temporary? No, I think there was a time where we felt like we live there because we were working so hard, and really got a sense of what you think what I think that most New Yorkers do which is just work so much and then
Got for dinner at nine or 10 and then get up and just do it all again. So I mean, here's the sign you get the sense that people are just working so hard. So many emails going around. It's, um, people trade email, like text here. Yeah, we caught up with someone yesterday who said that they'd been in meetings since 8am. It was 5pm when we finished with them, and they hadn't even started their email. It's like that's, yeah, then you get along. Yeah. After when you get home. Yeah, I mean, that's some people love that was a regular thing. I'm not really I need the balance of not working and working like the constant grind is not really familiar. Yeah. Is there anything that you took from that New York experience that you actually brought into your work ethic or just your lifestyle?
eating pizza? Yeah, well,
I think I think it was it was because working in a different city is can be a little bit confronting or scary or you get that kind of stuff.
cultural shock. But then at least in TV, you realize pretty quickly, even though we're working in New York with American crews and stuff, you realize that they know then they're all making it up, like way out, like no one really knows what they're doing. Even though they might put on a, on a on a persona of knowing exactly what's going on, like with with confidence, you find out pretty quickly that you're full of shit. And so do the confidence, good or bad? Like do you walk around with more confidence? Or do you think that? Well, it just it made us realize that are we actually we're actually doing okay. We know, just as much as I do in a lot of cases and without Lynn without wanting to sound, like arrogant or anything, but everyone wants you to do something for a while you just figure out how things work. But there was certainly when going over to New York. I certainly had a sense of feeling of like, this is America, like they're going to be everyone's going to be the best in the world and what I do, and then you realize Are they all just like Australian crazy
Just to say it also sometimes not even as
well rounded, because like, they don't have to like it, they can be very specific in the roles whereas I guess in Australia, like filmmakers, you have to be good at heaps of different things. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, that's it's certainly a thing. Even like a even banking a couple of guys in Australia, specially now there's much it's much more of a culture of if you're, if you're a creator, you've probably come up making doing everything you probably know how to edit the big no bit of writing and you've done you've done all different things been here, maybe it's changing, but certainly the tradition in in America is it's very unionized. And you're, you're a writer, or you're an editor, and you really cross over Yeah, like the writer directors in that indie world and I guess it's, they're getting more into Marvel and those big blockbuster things now but, but more often than not specially in television, it's very segregated. Very
As opposed to like, Australia or England, which is very much like if you're at a TV show, it's usually one rider or two writers who've created it, and then they write the whole thing. And then they're the people who make it. But in America, it's like a writers room of 10 people through my writing, generally speaking, at the moment a lot, because I'm sort of like hardly trying to finish the script while I'm over here. But David Beckham, I write a fair bit. It's sort of like that. My happiest time is writing. When's the Best Writing happened? Do you think? in cafes? Yeah, yeah. When I when I work in cafes, for some reason. That is a that's a good, inspiring place for me. Yeah. Yeah. I love the cafes. Maybe it's like the just everything. everything's happening around you. You can zone in on you. Yeah.
And people can kind of almost see your screen. So I feel guilty if I'm on the internet. I feel like if people can kind of walk past and say that I'm fucking around, I feel guilty for not working. Whereas some of the time, I'll get distracted. Do
feel inspired in a place like Los Angeles to write more? It will definitely definitely because everyone you just say everyone doing a lot. Yeah. And there's just so much more opportunity. It was more chairs. Because I saw I mean, we went to a cafe to meet a mate the other morning and I saw one person doing it. It is person over here, right? It looks like script writing in that script writing program. It is everywhere. We saw someone with the new air pods. I mean, it's the place. Yeah, I interested to say that. Yeah. Well, they look quite good. The ones
for them off the cliff. He should have just makes them all
night. Thank you for coming on the show. 511 and finally got here. Yeah, we did it. And now we're going to walk all the way all the way down to stay.
To daily talk show Hi, the daily talk. show.com is the email address if you want to send us an email otherwise you can also share if you liked the show on the Instagram tag the daily talk show. Otherwise say my guys. Yeah, and if you want any of these flyers
absolutely annoying. You don't realize until you're doing a podcast how many flaws there are in podcasts generally.
complaining about the
guys say guys