#321 – Made in Melbourne with Ichpig’s Nate Swinefeld/
- April 9, 2019
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show we’re joined by Nate Swinefeld. Nate is the Co-Director of Ichpig, a streetwear brand designed and manufactured in Melbourne.
Creating a brand that sticks
Cutting out the middle man
Customer experiences with a brand that cares
Entitlement and hard work
Lean business structures
What’s next for Ichpig
Ichpig on Instagram:
Watch today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show podcast at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBKvfi91fyM
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A conversation sometimes worth recording with mates Tommy Jackett & Josh Janssen. Each weekday, Tommy & Josh chat about life, creativity, business and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and friends of the show! This is The Daily Talk Show.
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It's a daily Talk Show Episode 321 Let's get a special guest in the studio. Nice. What's cracking me up, man? How are you? Yeah, good, dude. I man, I'm just I am concerned that I won't be able to last the whole episode with this show.
Thinking that with that big lights
rockin and I've got one of your jumpers on Yeah, of your brand new hp. hp. That's it.
I'm also wearing it. This is the first time we've worn something outside of our T shirt. I was thinking that
I was watching your episodes. I'm thinking man, these guys just were playing t
Yeah. Well, this is I mean, this is probably yours is on brand in terms of
straight black for me. Yeah. Yeah.
And then I've got sort of like, what color what would you call this is this like, we call that white mile White's Mau Mau Mau
miles like the flicker through it so I when when they make the spool it's not just a straight color. It's actually got, you know, a bit of gray a bit a bit a lot. What bit a lot of gray. Yeah, and kind of blend it all together. It kind of fades in different like I guess you'd say no Janssen threads going to make the fabric meant to lay it all together.
You got the electric blue on your party?
The weekend. pretty famous for wearing Can you just tell us what you ate for breakfast? We just did a mock test with you and Josh said what would you have for
breakfast and he got an answer out of me. He was not expecting Yeah. Yeah,
I was expecting some sort of muesli IVF maybe a yogurt. Now I saw I ate my girlfriend and I
cooked like a big Mexican dish not yesterday with it was chicken rice. Some tomatoes and some kale. But then we had some leftover kangaroo and been mix. Mix. Mix that throne I was eating it out in the car park. Yeah.
What sort of beans just out of curiosity,
I think was kidney beans. Kidney Beans. Yeah, we always just kind of randomly pick the different ones for melody or whatever and just kind of cycle through Yeah, they
dry Do you have to soak them or no.
Welcome to get the other kind of gunk often. All those preservatives they use last long, but I'm not usually you just use the flavor or the mix of them. The flavor you putting in? Yes.
You can really taste it. We just looked into the food chat, which I which I love. Always good. Yeah.
Within the first five minutes. Well, I think I made the mistake of not renting my beans the other day. Yeah.
And it's kind of glad Yeah, it's got that we it's like it's almost been juice. Yeah, it just, you know, you guys seen Ace Ventura? Yes. And you know when he comes out of the rhinos, Austin. It's like, oh, like
I feel Yeah,
but it's a real amateur moved in on Richie. Baines
may not have a cancellation. Yeah. Yeah,
same night. You seem like a practical dude. Like you're not just like a someone who's founded the businesses all hands off and all that sort of thing. Nah.
Did it actually start? Am I right in saying that you were like sewing shit? Yeah,
so meet my brother. So when we first first started my own, we were in Japan together. And I was a snowboard instructor. And somehow Alex managed to come along and get a free ride free lift ticket, didn't teach a fucking lesson the whole time. He's a younger brother. He's the
classic, classic, somehow you just, somebody would definitely do that. Yeah. Just piggyback off me. So
I learned how to crochet beanies off one of the instructors. And I kind of got okay at that. And then we kind of got showing this this technique of how to make jump as long as the longer clothing thing was a thing back then nine years ago. And yeah, Alex learn how to sew when we got back. And then we kind of slowly figured how are we going to do this? And then yeah, he taught me and then yeah, we started I think the first maybe 12 months of the of the company will we will sewing.
So what do you actually start like when you're sewing you starting with like, how many actual pieces?
So what we would do, we had a week of testing it first on our own clothes. So basically, what we do is you get a you get a jumper, you loss it through the middle, and then it becomes two parts, right? Yeah. And then you make a middle part, or middle third, which is basically just a tube. So it's two bits of fabric, you run the same here, same here, then you long scene up lines now and then you just over lock it around both on both new things. Right. And that makes the jump at all. Sure. So what we what we realized was once that was done that ability to do that, you could start picking what color you wanted. Well, yeah, so all we did was is we it's funny, you know, like that the manufacturer we still use today used to be on Smith Street, right? Yeah, yeah. So we I remember, I was telling the story on another podcast the other day was like, remember, I had we had 1000 bucks, right? I remember taking the money out from that calm bank that used to be down there. Yeah, walking up the street with this thousand bucks in my hand in my pocket. I can shoot myself but
you know walking past you know the kind of people that hang down yeah, now they probably weren't looking at me paying attention ME Breath without staring at I jumped me. I remember walking all the way up and yeah, so we bought whole bunch of their discontinued stock
which is all colors of the rainbow was like they're like nine bucks. nine bucks a pop for each jumper and then we took it all back would put it in mom's garage which would put put your stuff in there. And then you know, that was that was like our HQ. Yeah. And yeah, we decided like chopping we'd had the middle part in and at the other side was crew next because we didn't make hundreds Yeah. And then somehow we learned how to make fucking hoods. Because you know, that's kind of complicated. You got you know, like full paces, you gotta join it the two pieces then you go join it around the outside and you flip it inside out and then go put into the cola. And yeah, that's kind of how it started. We just sewing and then I remember cut so buried in all that we will because we essentially became manufacturers in Yes. You know, you can imagine like, these guys out of this garden, you know, western suburbs, making these chances and we're just went like wildfire. And so then we ended up like I remember at one central like 30 orders deep. We just couldn't get through. And I've been sitting there fucking slaving away. Mom's garage freezing our tits off with the Oh, why don't we just prepare them and then get someone else to make them for us? Yeah, then we can speed the process up. So we started treating it like you know, kind of like pre package jumpers almost. And we found some some sours. I think the first one we use her name was Michelle. She's kind of hippie kind of crazy girl from St. Kilda. I remember we used to drive them out there. And then she would kind of save them all up and I'd come back we do the quality check and fix all the mistakes and and it kind of grew from there.
To the crew neck is a hooded like a hoodie. Just a crew neck with the hood. So you're wearing a crew? Yeah,
I'm wearing a hoodie. Yeah.
And so to add to make a hoodie, do you just take a crew neck and add the hood?
Well, so what we'd actually it's kind of sketchy in a way but what we have is it's kind of sketchy, like you know, figuring shit out. Yeah, at the start. We'd actually just straight so a hoodie into the crew out look like you were cudnn Yeah,
that's what I would do. Yeah, I know.
It was sick. But like, you know, putting it through the overlook it you know, like there's so much fucking fabric. Yeah, like, you know, two layers of the hood. Then you got the crew ribbon. And you got the same that's already there. Man. We broke so many needles.
I think so so many next.
Just try and get it. Shane would you shoot some split made it and then you gotta get the little allen key at you gotta kind of undo it quick. You gotta get that tweezers. You get me into it. Oh, man, and then putting it back in, then you go to thread the thing through the correct way. And like over lock is a pretty I don't know how many people know over lockers. No idea. It's really complicates not like a sewing machine. We just kind of run it from here, run it down to get the tension, right. Because of the way it hammers down. It goes through all the series of holes, and you don't get in the right holes to make the sequence. It doesn't make the right stitch. So the metaphor for life really
I remember one day I fucking broke bananas and spending hours trying to I had to learn how to race read the whole thing because it didn't come on done. Yeah. What's the crafts right?
Now we got connected through our nights at Nando's Yes. And some the person who works at Nando's their son was saying that you guys were sort of posting with Nanos, that's a separate story. But basically, basically, it's one of the head of PR as sun saw that this cool brand HP posting about Nando's? Yeah, and that's how we've ended up here today. What I love about that is you've created this something that's cool, which is super hard to do, right? Like this pretty hard. Yeah, I think, you know, young kids identifying with this brand as being something cool, which, you know, people don't understand these, you know, things like the hard work of the thread and the teaching and all this hard work. And so they see the final product, what's that for you, when you see where it's come from, as far as the hard work to also this cool, hip, you know, trendy thing that's now happening, it's, it's a, it's,
it's almost unfathomable, like, like, when you tell that story, about, you know, me sitting there trying to thread shit, and like learning how to sew to now it's like, I don't even know how many lifetimes that is. It's like, it's like, I'm a completely different person. When I was doing that, at that point in my life to what I am now. It's not like, I was saying it was funny, because I was saying it to speaking to one of our, our staff, members, parents, so we've just got this new, new new kid, it's working for us. And you know, I'm kind of teaching him some of the skills that I'd become pretty good at. Anyway, I hadn't quite spoken to his mom. And you know, it's kind of like, I felt like I kind of owed it to him. Because, you know, I want this kid to be part of the company forever. And so, I was saying to her how like, yeah, I always like, to kind of,
you just don't get that kind of experience and that kind of knowledge from university. They just, they just can't create it. It's like real world shit. You know? Like, I was saying to hell, you know, because I used to do industrial design. So that's like product design, right? Yeah. So when we first started HP way, way back then I remember ice caught these fucking crazy ideas. Like there was this one idea. Instead of, and I was real big on sustainability and recycling sheet. You know, it's a bit of a tree hugger or whatever. Yeah, I came up this idea, instead of buying new t shirts, you just buy the one t shirt office, and then you change the graphics out. Because you know, really, everyone just wears a white tea or black tea, especially if you're talking to us.
So then I came up with this idea, this design was like this Peter thing. So you had two tips that came like this. And you basically just changed over the graphics, and you slotted it out in an hour, right? Yeah, but it wasn't economical at all. Didn't work. Yes. to manufacture it, who's going to pay our hundred bucks for a T shirt or whatever? Yeah, that's what it would have had to sell. And that's the thing that in university, just one of the lessons you don't learn is that like, an idea is only good if you can actually sell it. Yeah.
Did you go into I guess I baked my question. But it's like, now I realized what I wanted to ask you. Did you go in thinking that you wanted to create something cool that kids would be into? Or did you go in thinking I'm actually into making this shit and actually enjoy the craft.
It was more about when we started, there was nothing that fitted us the way we wanted it to fit. And we thought the quality out there was pretty ratchet. And to be honest, I think that's still the case. I think the quality out there is
well, you know, like all companies and they just trying to get the fob down. And what I mean by that is the cost of goods that he's trying to get it down as low as they can. When we're talking about this on yesterday's episode that fast fashion. Yeah, yeah. Like, everyone wants a cheaper and they want it good. Yes. It's funny that I always I say this a lot. And it's like, you know, you can imagine we cop it from time to time, you know, you like, or you're charging $180 $200
for jumper and you're like, is that? How much is it? Yeah, those ones 160. In that one, we
have Hey, take him off.
So now we have to walk down Smith straight not worry about cash, but someone's gonna take us for what
you're gonna get. Yeah,
so it's one of those things where it's like, like, those people that complain about the price, they're often the first people also to complain when they lose their job. Yeah, because the job is going offshore. So you can't have it both ways. You can't complain about getting paid, you know, 15 bucks an hour and wanting to get 25 bucks an hour. But then that item, that artifact that you're producing or doing then costs, you know what it needs, because a lot of the time people don't realize that, you know, like to survive in this world. You have to time something by three at least, like the really special guys that I'm sure you guys get on here. They wouldn't be working at three times to be working at 578 10
times. That's what some of the big guys do. Right? What do you mean by that? So you know, if you produce something for 10 bucks you myself 100 bucks. Yeah, that's what the mega stars. Yeah. Like, like someone like,
I don't know, like, I don't want to call companies out. But you know, I mean, you know, the company I'm talking about, like, you can go to any shop on Smith Street and like, the prices that they're charging new, versus what they land the stuff at. country is just in. Like, Da Vinci Da Vinci. Yeah,
they hoodies that are like that. Team legit. $900 Yes, this brand there. But how much like that from a quality perspective? Yeah. How? How is it worth 900 bucks, the item is landed for them probably 200.
Hundred? Who knows? It's like, it's Yeah, it's it's crazy. It's like, you know, like, that's the that's the problem with like, and that's why a lot of the industry is dying is because they built the whole business model of getting 10 times. Yeah, but once people get smarter and more clued in and realize they getting basically rained. They're not going to Fulford anymore. But you know, it's like, they'll drop the process and this still making seven times well, there's also that's why everyone's always on sale.
They have to be well, the other thing too, is like, I think that 2019 it's like the the death of the middleman in some regards, or
hundred percent, because you guys are doing it yourself. Like you're talking direct to your audience. Fuck the middleman. Yeah,
we're a big media company. Yeah. Bye, bye. And yes, I think that's part of it too. Right. Which is like, the, the pricing structure has had to allow for all of that as well. All of the fat that is going through all of these different people before it gets to the customer. Yeah, yeah.
It's crazy. It's crazy. Like, if people realized what a pair of shoes start off at and versus what they end up at once you actually bought them? Yeah, it's insane. How many people have just gotten a little hundred percent out there? That little hundred percent, a little hundred percent? And suddenly, you know, something that lands at $5? Yeah, it's now $200. Do you think that the the idea of manufacturing in Melbourne you have made in Melbourne? Is that something that you think that you will be able to do long term? I'm hoping so. But it's fucking challenging. Yeah. Like, it's really challenging. Like, in terms of what we're doing now, on the scale we're at now, that's fine. But if we want to go massive, like not massive if we want to go global, or international, or whatever, you know, like people already saying to us, like, you guys might have to compromise, you might have to seriously think about it. And like, it's like one of those things. It's like, Fuck, like, it's such a
I don't know how to describe it. It's such a like, a conflicting idea. You built this thing on, you know, doing it the right way and and not saying Fuck you. And I want to do it myself. And I want to do it the right way. And we're going to prove that you can do it the right way. But like, like, I'm hustling. Literally. Like, from the moment I wake up at 6am to half an hour before I go to bed at 10 3011 o'clock, or whatever I like. Like, like,
how I still have a partner that will put up with my bullshit and is amazing. Like, she is awesome that she puts up with my crap because no one fucking else. Yeah, no, like, everyone thinks it's fun and games, and I've been skating all day, and I'm living the life and I'm killing it. But like when I did, I did a podcast the other week. The guy the gods was sitting there behind the mic. Like, like,
Mr. Nice, funny. yesterday.
I couldn't believe how much my fucking phone went off. Yeah, my phone just didn't stop. Yeah, for two hours straight. It was just going Ding, ding, ding. And that's like, it was like what you said to me the other day about how
Jules gave someone some advice that just hit the likes up. We've been doing that for nine years.
And so what he's referring to is George Lund, who was on this podcast, gave a mutual friend some advice
about his clothing label to get into the games and actually start talking to the people who are your customers, which significantly increased their monthly revenue, just from that tactic. And I was mentioning it tonight. And he said, that's what we've been doing. Like, so he explained to us what, that there's some in this sort of like hands on marketing.
So I mean, to me, it's like, the thing that makes us different is you're talking to real people, you're talking to people that give a shit, they know the product inside out, they live and breathe it, you're not talking to some Well, not that there's anything wrong with it, you're not talking to a 23 year old that's working the retail job trying to get through uni and their minds elsewhere. And they're probably hangover from the weekend run. That's not who you're talking to, you're talking to the guy or one of the guys. And it makes it for a very different experience. Because, you know, what, we know the product inside out, we design. I mean, most of the time when we're designing stuff, we actually are designing stuff that we need for our wardrobes that's like our the HP customer, whatever, they love us so much. I want to wear us as much as possible because you know the stuff really good quality and it's great.
So then is it as something comes along that we think Oh shit, we need this, then it's like, well, you just go and say that to all these other people that have bought from us, because they're the same, but they don't have the thing either
you make undies today? Yeah, yeah. Well, how did how? How to tell you how different who's making underwear versus making hoodies in regards to you know, the process and what you actually need to do.
Um, and these are just a little bit simpler in terms of like, it's different, different it's not as many different materials it's, you know, you got these cotton spandex and you got your band
in terms of a nice or a tricky one for us, actually, because that's one where you know, big companies they make them for 50 cents maybe not even like an hour and he's actually cost us quite a lot to make and that's actually one of our governments where we don't make the greatest margin but we just do it because they're they're fucking sick and yeah, they're really good. They're really comfy actually swear by. I don't want anything else anymore. Yeah, they, we kind of changed.
The band looks really cool. So I'm online. Yes, the band
sick. And also one of the things you don't notice is if you look on the back of them, the same doesn't go all the way down kind of around the Gooch.
But not what we did was is it kind of around the shocker. shocker.
Absolutely. Think Tank is another one. It's a different thing as well. I heard that on the weekend. There's many ways to describe that middle bit. Yeah,
I think it's the same. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, off topic, as always. So yeah, what we did was we brought this that same line, it doesn't go all the way down, it kind of stops at your tailbone. And then there's actually an arch that comes over kind of a budget. And what that means is, you don't get wedges, there's no scene they get hot fold in. So
I made that for, like, I see people who sort of love brands, and you were describing those people that want to be wearing your HP clothing, and they end up being head to toe. Yeah, it becomes a thing for them. I've never had that thing for a brand. Maybe it's just maybe I've been dag in my life, but I've always just kind of thrown together close. But there is what who is that kind of person? What what's the, what's the vibe, the person that wants to be head to toe in a certain brand? Like, what are they thinking?
Well, I guess they just really buy into what the brands about, you know, like, I mean, with us, if you if you if you care about making things ethically you think we're good guys, you know, you know, this, there's not many, there's not many brands in the world where you can have the kind of access that you have with us, and how open we are. And we're very democratic. You know, like, we talked to our customers a lot, we try and get feedback, we try and be inclusive, you know, the company is built on that it's built on.
We're not kind of standing up here saying this is fashion, fucking ate it up. I mean, like, we're not about that. It's it's kind of like, it's ebbs and flows. We know we try and take feedback, we try and have people included we try and have people a part of it. We're really gracious, you know, like everybody you get fuck me, like, thank God. Like, you got to appreciate that, you know, like, you're convincing people to come to part with their hard earned, and they're choosing to spend on you. There's a mean things in this world that could spend it on and I chose you. So I
see the appeal when it's at that level. I haven't never sort of, I guess, sort of had that tipping point of like, being interested in a brand where I then realized, like, I couldn't imagine the brands I'm probably you know, grab gravitate towards I couldn't speak to anyone from the
continent on isn't
Shelley from the pair's department
Now, I know, I feel like I'm probably more on the boat of like, going on what like that was one of the decisions I made, like, probably a year ago, where it's like, I'm just going to have this one brand t shirt that I wear. And I know it works and I you know, buy a new one every year. Have you sort of factored that in from a business point of view where it's like, people seem to want to be holding on to shit for longer. And that when you're building something that's have such high quality, I can imagine this lasting may feel like five winters. Yeah, well, how does that work from a business standpoint?
Um, it works in the sense that, you know, it's kind of like, it's like Subarus. Subarus, you buy them and they hold the value. Out garments are the same. So, you know, he buy into us and you, you know, say there's something that comes along and you want to refresh it taste up, and you like it more? Well, you can sell the item you have and it holds its value pretty well. Yeah, like, I sell my secondhand stuff for the price. I bought that process work. Yeah.
You just don't tell you brother. Yeah. Yeah,
he knows. He knows cuz I'm the one that's in the in the public live a little bit more than him. So I kind of have to be in the newest stuff a little bit more. But you know, I'd like there's heaps of customers that that miss out on shit all the time, like, and they fucking spew. And like, one guy hit me up a couple weeks ago, and he's like, Fuck, you guys gonna do any more orange hoods? And I was like, No, but I know, I've got one in my closet. And I'm sitting there and I haven't worn it in six months. Yeah. Fuck it. You know? He is like, short. I don't want to do with my second hand jumping. Yeah, fucking sweet. It's a rather, it's going to make more money and make you happier. Yeah. And me happier being in your closet than being
in mind? Are you trying to do this from a brand perspective? I guess that's the question around, you know, are you intentionally trying to create this cool thing intentionally trying to create this real desire for people who want your range and whether it goes out, you know, you've finished the release? And then people like, I want that. And you kind of do and you don't?
It's I mean, it's always good to have more demand and supply. Look at some of the biggest companies in the world. Supreme is supreme or classic, you know, they know they can sell 1000 of something, they'll release 200. And they're a classic, but they're a different base. Now, you know, like, they're, they're actually being, I'm not sure if you guys know, they're being bought out by a big investment firm. And they got bought out. They got valued at a billion dollars. And the investment firm Carlisle's bought them for 5.5 million. Sorry, $550 million. Yeah, so 50% Oh, just have a 50 cent stake. So they're at a different stage now. But yes, that's what they were doing this was they were trying to be Uber cool. And the thing was supreme is the thing that a lot of people don't realize. And the reason why supreme is unique is because they were built and constructed by this guy called James to buyer. So James Jabbar was actually the creative director for sushi. So he got bought out by sushi for 14 million bucks. So then he goes and starts this small scale up in New York with Supreme, the guy doesn't give a fuck about making money. That's, that's inherently cool. Like, who in this world starts a business and says, you know, what, if we make money or not, I don't give a shit. Yeah, there's not many like, and that's why
we must be very cool. With the daily talk show. back all the way to the Supreme level, I was gonna say coming back to
us, that's why, you know, we're not inherently trying to be cool. Because, to me, I feel like, you know, going out there saying, fuck it, I'm going to do this. I don't give a shit what's in my way. And that's what he speaks about. Really, you know, it's that the name means a relentless progression fueled by hunger. So, you know, like, we wanted to start a company and evil and we just an absolute fucking joke. And we were, you know, always crocheting these myself and Alex and I was selling these hoodies out of mom's garage. We still talked about ourselves and, and believe we were a company even though we were so fucking it's delicious, which Tommy and I love, like we have built everything we do on a certain level of delusion that
it's for ourselves, because we almost believe it, right? Like, you feel like I believe that no one else will. Yeah,
you can't if you can't look someone in the eyes and convince them on what you are talking in and speeding. Yeah. juggling. Yeah, yeah, it's time for something else. Because that's what it takes. You know, people are so smart now. And I remember we always believed it was going to happen. And I remember Alex his friends used to laugh at us because one of the big things was when we first started it was all about the brand and not us. So we would wear Bella clauses flat out Yeah, every photo people come to the workshop to pick up this stuff
as in a bell curve is fully over Yeah, I whole Yeah. Full Face because just done an armed robbery. Yeah, pretty much because
it was it was about it was about the gamut selling themselves, not the models faces, not the bullshit marketing side. Now we kind of sold out and not don't do that anymore. But
you know what I mean? Like, it's probably timely to stop doing that. Yeah,
we kind of got started getting associated with things that we weren't really about. And people, it was kind of hard to get that message out to everyone. So you just kind of you know, sometimes it's one of the things you got to cut off
your hand as well. Yeah, I heard you mentioned that you grew up in the west side. Yeah. And I didn't really it was only probably three years ago that I actually started to understand the sort of fanatic nature that people from the west have about West Side. I grew up in New Danny long southeast. Yep. And then I was on the train once I and a friend said I, you know, west sides best side. And they're talking about Olympic donuts. And they're talking about all this these Westside fucking things I had no, it was a new world.
It's one of those things like people are just so like, sometimes people need a thing to kind of band around you. It's just another form of religion. But ya know, the west side is pretty. It's pretty famous for blue collar, you know, that's where all the manufacturing jobs are. is
where is this foot? Greg? Williams don't Where did you go? Yeah.
So I grew up like kind of Williamstown new port area. Yeah. And went to school that and were a bit West born or whatever. Yeah. So you know, like, I wasn't like, proper roughing. gronk by any means, like, I'm not pretending to be that but, you know, always friends with everyone cuz I skated I played basketball. You know, it's big into snowboarding. But yeah, like, kind of everyone in that area. I more or less knew because I was into so many different sports kind of shit like
that. you associate with that. That West Side thing? Do you identify with it? I do. Yeah.
it's funny, like a while back, like, we had this. We had this kid and he he basically ripped us off online or whatever. He put in a fraudulent order. And, you know, I was just so fucking fuming about it. A fucking turned up at his house. I just went there.
Oh, he's knocked out. He put his address. Yeah,
well, my nose is funny. He put his friends address I went to the friends address. You
see a bitch
was caught it. I remember his mom kind of answered the door and she's fucking shooting this. Hello, can I help you? I'm like, it's your son's name such and such. And she's like, yes, I'm like, all right. I've got a story for you. Yeah, it's like I told him what happened? she
happened to invite you in? Yeah,
no, she invited me in and stop. And I remember, I walked into the fucking house and the dad.
Because my son got up for my birthday. Is there a problem?
The funny thing was it was his card. Right? So I recognized him straightaway because I got them to send me the credit card and the ID because I had a sniff it was pretty fraudulent looking. And he's lying on the cash face down in these jocks just like this is like at 930 10 o'clock at night. Scanning all night.
I'm staying these guys house in like, somewhere nice. Where was it was like q or something? Yeah. And, and then the woman's like, honey, honey, this guy's he's gonna tell you this story about us.
Oh, my fucking god. Anyway, I tell them the story about what's happened and they just absolutely mortified. This kids apparently, you know, like, you know, he's kind of done some shit he should have done which is fair. Anyway, the kid comes home.
And then was it a reverse charge or something had you know, it was fraudulent? Like what was just
the way he could clientele with certain orders when, especially when people say someone orders three different orders in the one night and they pay for shipping every time.
you send out the product?
We did? Because we did. We did our checks. We did our stuff. And it came back and we had all the information. That's why I knew like it wasn't too bad. Like it looks. It looks sketchy. But at the same time, I got enough reassurances from the checks like Dude, that was okay. But it still turned out like almost fucked on it. Yeah, but anyway, these people really good about and they're awesome about who
you're in queue. It's one of the office, you know,
Melvin, sometimes you get people pretending to be but anyway, so
coming back to the story, I got a bit off topic. Anyway, this key book scene. And like,
I had to confront him about it. Like he's parents asked me to confront him and I was happy now.
We're gonna have to get you to confront Maury Povich there and
get one slap and we're okay with that. Yeah,
it was pretty well, I got I
got his hands off now. And,
and anyway, this kid was kind of telling me what he done. And I remember saying to him, my stink of being from the east side, man, like the people that you're hanging around with, and talking to you fucking eat you alive. Yeah, like, if you fuck these people. Now, just like, I'll just talk to you, just like fish bite. And that's, that's one thing you can always kind of bank on is like, you can always kind of tell where people are from, by the way, they dress the way they talk the way the things that they say. Like, for instance, if someone says eight, you know, they're from Sydney straightaway. In fact, it's like, like, see club good. It's, it's her. Yeah, but it's now it's 80 s, from from at all. Like, if people are wearing a heap of naughty current Tommy and they look pretty preppy, you know, they're from the east lecture is heaps of little thing. And I guess I've gotten pretty exposed that because, you know, I fucking talked to so many people. It's funny, right? So I get pretty, I get pretty clearly with picking up people.
So your website and brand them I do have the if, if someone's wearing it, each pig, what does that tell you about them? Do you think
probably told you that, like, you know, they give a fuck about what they wearing, they have a bit of a conscience, they like being a part of something.
And it doesn't necessarily mean that from the west east or north or south and whatever. Because one of the one of the things about us that we've kind of managed to get into a pretty unique spot here is that we have the ability to hit very different a very vast amount of styles. Whitney influenced by so many different things like, you know, like kind of tech culture or and when I make tech I don't mean fucking, you know, like, Silicon Valley. I mean, like, you know, kind of, like, you know, track pants with tapes of zip sauna and stuff or, and kind of odd skate culture. You know, I'd be pants collar pants. We like sport, lots of heaps of NBA color ways of kind of in there. You've also infiltrated the
skating culture, which, which, you know, doesn't judge its people from all walks of life.
So I mean, Scott is a funny where sometimes they'll judge and I'll be really cliquey but sometimes they're not the subculture
Yeah, of any sport. Like
it's kind of like it's funny like I was talking to someone when we're actually about to hopefully in the next month or so, we're gonna start doing Skype lessons out of out of the warehouse right
I'll get on that I've always wanted to be able to Skype
Tommy was tongue Yeah, try and get you to drop me
well night at night has built with your businesses built a house. Wareham
Off I play Tony Hawk on PlayStation, not the same way like my brother.
He was done. He would have put all the hacks in as well so he can grind.
Absolutely running today,
but I grew up my dad was building a mini pipes and it was the best so what you've got is like the dream. Yeah, it's
pretty sick. It's pretty epic. Like I I'd be I mean, I do take it for granted a little bit. But like, yeah, it's it's pretty fun. It's pretty sick. We've been we've been scanning it and coming now that daylight savings is just finished. I'm going to flog it every night. Yeah, like because I can't go anywhere else. Yeah, cuz I won't get out of work early enough.
And so what's this guiding culture like in 2019 it's getting
cultures, and he's rollerblading back
rollerblading is kind of still frowned upon unfortunately,
which is called a weed. I mean, I was a speed skater back so it wasn't as I always wanted to be you know when they would do the okay the speed skaters get on you go around
you don't remember
now I used to play
it was cool in like the late 90s
Yeah. Where juice did you have
to shoot Yeah, and then USA Yeah, and SMP that Skype Yes.
What is this guy is money power or snowboard more peaks of skate park was
always sec sec sec
thoughts that stood for but there was that skate shop on a on a CMC on a lot Lonsdale near the old skate park. Yeah, I saw Yeah, this is flashbacks. Yeah.
No, no integrate. Why? Like I spent so much time down the skate park Yeah, the Edward ball it was a crappy just to you know, to sort of pits
still go to that ball. It's still too pits, but it was still like a few my friends. I always try and drag me because I don't really like going there. Yeah,
they always drag me there. Well, I grew up the School of the old ball. It was sick. I mean, but now it's like a full fledged skate park is where they've added a few things to it. I always said I would have been set as so much better at skating if I had that skate park there because all you could do was go in the ball
Yeah, I mean that's what that's what the kids is so lucky man. I hate sound like one of the old guys but
football was played so now man
boxes sheet back in the day
Skype Skype what's a fucking epic man? every fucking suburb like, like I go out to Chelsea all the time because they got this monster escape pockets. So sick. It's the best like I love
the one in Sheridan's amazing. Yeah, when I was living there. I think there's something about like, that time spent at these places. It's cathartic for young kids. Yeah. And so your brand, you know, being associated with something like skating, it's tapping into a special time or a special place for them surfing, when you're out in the waves, it's like, it makes you feel great. And so packs, you know, and skating is that so your brands closely associated with definitely,
it's closely associated with that just almost fundamentally, because it's one of the things that I do most. But you know, come winter, I'm gonna be snowboarding a lot. So then it's kind of it shifts to snow. It's It's just that function now about and this is one of the one of the biggest challenges of the brand is describing what it is what what is it escape brands, snowboard brand basketball brand? What, what is it? And it's like, it's one of those things where it's like, my brother and I grew up doing everything, and we still do everything, like, you know, we can, we can go to the prank call. It's and we know most that most of the people that are the heads down, they know it's like, and we can prank courts paying basketball courts, not like the court says. Yeah,
so like, you know, like, we've played ball down there for ages. And we know most of the boys down there and we can get on the court. And you know, like we can play with them like that. Like we can hold our own a little bit. And then you know, you go skating and most can go to most skate parks and talk to anyone there or, you know, you go to the snow and and you know, we're pretty handy snowboarders because we've done a few seasons. And there's just so many different things that we're kind of into
that that kind of plugged into the brain and like describing that because people always want it they want things to find, you know, what is this? What is this? What is this about? What's this? What's the main and it wasn't until like three or four years ago that we realized the thing that ties it all in is that we're just relentless in what we do. Whenever we fixed that our eyes on with progression. whores, we just, we just crave getting better. Yeah, I'm not the best scalar going around, but I fucking love getting better at it. Yeah, it's so fun. Just like sitting there trying something 100 times and then you get it. Yeah. And then you like, okay, let's get it better. Let's get it better. It's getting better. It's like, it's priceless. I love it. Yeah, I get off on it. And then like, once you kind of you kind of get you get that feeling progression, then you start thinking about Okay, what's next? What's next? What's next? What's next. And that's what the brand's been, you know, like, it's the only way describe it's like you start in the garage. You know, you create something from nothing. And now it's, you know, like, got full, full, full, full full time employees. You know, my best friends are leaving office now working for us, you know, we've given the space back, right in the heart of Brunswick for people to Skype and awesome. It's free. If you're a customer, or if you're a person we know, just come and skate. You know, don't worry about it. Like, yeah,
I hope my kid gets into skating and Armand will add to a stuff like it I think there is like, like you're saying this lessons in skating. That applied to life. You know, shit. Yeah. dropping in breaking your arm. I'll try again. Yeah,
what it's like analyzing and I
was just, I was just outlining Josh is for skating. Yeah. breaks out
when you describe that to myself, man. I could just see what's gonna happen.
I had, how do
I? How do I enter into this hole? If I wanted if I was to start skating,
I think we'd start off by just getting you learning how to push and kind of stand on the board and be safe on the board. Yeah, and then there's kind of little progression things that you learn like you learn to try and turn around on this.
Have you known have a 28 year old to pick ups skating? Yeah,
it's funny i a bunch of a bunch of girls that are just starting to get into skateboarding have been skating it out place and then progressing like crazy like I feel like they
they probably exit gymnast so they've got some so
and when ages to start young guys don't know the center of gravity just getting that familiarity with your your balance your sense of balance. Yeah Josh
stayed inside more so than went outdoors as a career.
Well, I had a very, like, I had a bike but I had an alarm system.
Oh, yeah. So which he liked more than the actual
Yeah, so and the problem was that the kid the skateboard kids who live next door to me, like my bike never got stolen until I got that alarm system. Because it would say stolen bike. Doo doo doo doo doo doo. And I would be running a chasing them as I would ride. acquitted. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so, but I do like I always wanted to, like get into skateboarding. I remember mom and dad bought me one. It was just real. I can fat it was it
was like one key. Yeah, it was like a banana boat. Yeah,
how much is it Skype all these days?
So most people pay about you know hundred and 20 bucks for the deck. And I think power trucks probably 90 bucks
to get into this I could imagine by like kidding out my board.
That's pretty good. Then you have to side on it. Yeah,
I'll say yeah, I got a bike. I don't ride that.
Is it I feel like you've built something that allows you to do something you love hates which like that skateboarding thing. So yeah, it's just it's
an aspect of life that I love doing I love skating and it's fun as fuck you know? Whether I'm you know, the coolest best greatest skater gone round fuck I don't give a shit about this kid is like because it's fun because I like the progression of it. Yeah, that's what I'm addicted to. I'm addicted to the progression I'm addicted to getting better at something you know, refining my craft, whether I'm good or not gonna give a shit about
how much were you thinking about business as a kid?
business as a kid not Not really. I would say Alex was sharp of the me as your brother. Yeah, my brother he's so he's kind of like
everyone always describes us as union Yang you know, like, I'm kind of emotional aggressive at that and he's kind of analytical reserved, calm.
Always analyzing things and like, you know, like, if you kind of had to symbolizes you'd always say he's the brain of HP and on the Hot that's kind of how it works and we're very we bounce off each other very much so like that So
yeah, I guess I did he said the same.
It's who you want to be that
I don't think he wants to be the hot he doesn't want to he doesn't want it he doesn't have any interest in what I'm doing. I didn't think
twice No, he's
just gonna rag on it. No,
no, I think reconciling shouldn't zero
it's funny to on the one that fucking lives in zero real and I'm the one that I do a Pyro and it's been interesting to trance we were in we were on my up there for a while somehow we've managed to score a free version of mild Yeah, and then we've kind of transitioned over to the whole zero thing and you get to learn about how that all works Yeah, God anyway was there as
well in regards to the business stuff was there a big learning from the the guys who were making everything out of your mom's garage to paying for taxes and shit like that? I can trip. Yeah, you know, like,
I remember our men went into bed you want to, I think was he to we finally registered enough turnover for Jay state, which is you know, 75 grand a year awareness. And even just going through that because like, when we first started
we were rolling of my sole trader IBM that I had as a pizza delivery.
This guy is doing well for pizza.
I hope it went through his like, like on the actual transaction like pizza hut Newport.
from age 15 to about 1920 Yeah, yes, I did everything there was Adobe Edge. I was fucking making pizzas. I end up being a delivery driver. And all you can eat and I wasn't it was a small shitty one. Yeah, yeah.
So you're using that your IBM for that. So what were what were the big learnings through that whole process? One of
the hardest things is charging your friends is really hard when you're beginning and and. And I remember that was one of the things Alex is just I don't know. It's funny now because I'm I'm I'm pretty good at it. You know, like I'm pretty good at signed the price. This is it. And some would say I'm bit of a smartass. And I'm pretty aggressive with selling you know, that's kind of what I'm really good at. Yeah. Anyway. I remember when we started I sucked at it. I felt bad asking people for money at all. And but I don't know how Alex, Alex somehow brainwashed me. I don't know. He's, it's weird. But he's really good and really ruthless at it. I remember just thinking myself slowly. But surely I remember someone's told me, you know, if they're your friends, they'll want to see you do well. They're happy to give you the money. They want to see prospering succeed. Yeah, that's a sign of a true friend, the one that asks you for free shit and discounts. Fuck them. Right?
Have you had to have had conversations with people who were taking the piss?
Nah, man. I had to be honest. Because people I'm pretty honest. And I'm pretty straight up. And I'm pretty transparent. Yeah, like you.
As soon as you come into my presence, you know where I stand? Yeah, I feel like that. I've never really had someone take the piss out of me. To be honest. I've never had to have that conversation. But I'm sure I will someday. Yeah, I mean, that doesn't mean I haven't been fucked over. Like, I remember a while back, you know, like, I sent a bunch of stuff to this guy. This really good scattering and Canada. You know, I kind of got my year and you know, I thought you know, this guy's Good God, Allah, cos he just sold all the shit. We sent him a Really? Yes, another box where the shit and you sold it all. And that's the world and that's the lesson you learn. You know? That's, that's I'm saying it's like, from from Day Zero to now the the amount of lessons that I have learned. You couldn't count them. Yeah, because you learn something new every day. And if not two, or three, four or five times, you know, like, when you die zero, you think Well, shit, we've got to sell this for this price. It's going to mark up this because I pay for this, pay for this pay for that. And then you learn another lesson. You know, like, this is how you this is you know, say you you've kept all your receipts in a box and all the receipts of fuck now because it over time,
right? That's a problem with the text department even wanting people to keep receipts they fade, bro. It's ridiculous. How so? Because I feel like you're going to a tangible product, you can show somebody out here it is. Feel it, smell it, touch it. Yeah. You know, I've experienced that early in my career of being a filmmaker and selling my it's myself. which essentially, all products have something behind it. That is you'd feel like you're selling yourself. What was that? That you? What was that sort of Penny drop moment for you? Where you realize that you could? And we're okay with selling yourself? You said your brother Brian, mostly. But it's like, I think there is something a realization or
it's actually probably pretty late in the company, to be honest, like, we just kind of, I guess we chased this idea of just trying to make something out of nothing trying to, I guess, get it to the stage where we could start taking money out of the business, because, you know, like I said before, yeah, we hit the market 75% for GST, but that just meant we turned over that much. Yeah, we didn't make any fucking money. Pretty Empire. So so the first two years, I reckon, like, and then after that, it started doing okay, and we started pulling money out. And we started kind of, I guess, making making money. And then
it was still just even then, like, 345, where we started making good money and started actually leading, we didn't, I didn't see myself as this seller, or whatever, this this, this lightbulb moment, is probably actually recently, to be honest, in the last 12 months, I figured Holy shit, you know, I'm actually, you know, I'm okay at talking to people, I can I can tell a story I can convince people of, of a message that I'm pushing, I can connect with people, you know, like, I've ended up on this podcast. You know, like, whatever degrees of separation, yeah, I've ended up here. And that's the last 12 months is probably been a bit of a light bulb moment where it's like, these are the things that I need to do to get us to the next stage. And these are the assets that I have, that I'm good at, that I need to exploit and exaggerate, I guess,
there's a bunch of convincing for yourself, like, I feel that I don't think there's any amount of time that is the exact amount of time for someone to convince themselves that they are good, or they are doing or selling this thing that is great. It's like an evolution. Yeah,
it's an evolution, like, you know, like, I guess three years 345 I realized I was different now. And I could, I could, will forever since I could talk to girls way easier, Mike. I know that sounds really kind of shallow. But like, you know, in my early years, I was not a shy kid. But I wasn't amazing with with with talking to people. And, you know, once he kind of got to be, I noticed my skill set had changed so dramatic drastically and dramatically. Like, I was so able to extract information out of people without sound like a fucking robot. Like I could, I could try to get stuff out of people react to it interpreted assimilate with what that was saying. And then build on that. And then, you know, like, after a while, I got so much better at that, that, you know, you could kind of just start, I don't know, you just not get what you want out of this. But you could get things out of, I don't know it's hard to describe without saying like some kind of manipulative,
How to Win Friends.
But I think if your intentions are right, and I think social skills is what you destroy
social skills a weird way trying to describe on social
deep, are you friends with other Melbourne clothing brands? Is that a community?
I'm trying? I'm trying to actually that's one of the main the big focuses last six months is actually trying to give back a little bit more and not be so like, Fuck you, you know, like, I will have you been in the path? Yeah, we're pretty competitive me now. It's pretty ferocious people like it's dog a dog. And I guess in the beginnings will vary like, Fuck you. We don't need no one do this ourselves.
Is that a West Side thing? I feel like there's like a little bit like that. Maybe the blue
color theory is there is because you know, like, I mean, this is gonna sound bad. And I'm not hating on these people. Because good on him for growing up with I grew up but you know, like, I didn't go to college where, you know, my best friend's dad is the fucking CEO or whatever. You know, I mean, like, I didn't just get, you know, all this money in my pocket. I could go start some
teeth whitening business. Yeah, something like that. And, you know, I just title on someone that I should have said, Well, I
definitely. I definitely, I definitely relate because I, you know, went to a low socio economic school in the southeast. And it's interesting, where it's like, I think maybe you're experiencing the same thing, which is like, I had a lot of sort of FUCK YOU TO ALL OF to that system. self made, and I'll make it work and all that sort of thing. Tommy's on the other side, where he went to private schools, I didn't get his idea. It didn't go to say,
I went to Wesley but I
thought a lot about this stuff. It is just two sides of the coin. Because I grew up in middle class family. My parents weren't rich, I made some good choices and worked semi private school. But the kids I went to school with super rich, but I look back now observing what these kids are doing. Some of them are doing absolutely fuck all. And yeah, no
hiding life. And they've done drugs.
There is a bunch of kids that I went to school with that are killing it. And I've adopted some work ethic or just a belief. It could be a selfless, right. It's like, you want to be around good people. And I feel like I was going to kids houses mansions, you know, like, and observing this and saying, Why can I have this? This is not my reality. But I was thinking it was like, it's the proximity effect. So when you do grow up in those environments, as much as they is some sort of, you know, all the kids posting photos of the houses, they bought, no chance. they've saved up the money. They've got a million dollar, you know,
keys from Paris, you know, with the fucking small investment of $10 million. Yeah.
Kevin Hart and Joe Rogan yesterday, where he's come from nothing can you know, food stamps and hard times in America, with his upbringing, to a point where he's the most famous guy, one of the most famous guys in the world? Rich, but he's, he's looking at the struggles that his kids are going to now have, because they don't have a struggle.
No, they don't come out. It's like, it's like, you know, like, yeah,
like you think about cuz I you know, I'm a die hard NBA, NBA follower. And I think about some of those, some of those kids in like, well, I often always thought, you know, how can every NBA player will be fuckin like, you know, like, they still, for instance, is still players in the NBA that can't fucking shoot. How does How the fuck Can you be in the NBA and you can't fucking shoot? You know, I mean, what do you have to do in your day? That like gets in the way of? It's because like, not everyone, fundamentally, every some people treat it like a job. Some people are just start to get there. They just, you know, they've got their time elsewhere, then, you know, they're not, you know, ruthless and relentless in what they can and going for the just kind of happy to kind of get there and it's that whole thing about, you know, like, some people fucking want it, and they just keep going and going and going. And the gamblers like, like, not, not many people know, Jordans. Michael Jordan's a degenerate gamble.
Really like a he's punter.
He actually he's fucking ferocious. Like, like, because he's so hungry. I
saw him at the tip. The other guy
having a crack midday. bowling balls. Yeah, and it's like, there's just so many different personalities. And I guess I always say that, you know, money exaggerates the type of person you are. You're either a fucking prick. Or you're really generous. Or you know, you're it enhances your work ethic or makes you even lazier. No, I mean, it just kind of, I guess it amplifies what it is that makes you be, I guess, and and like, yeah, I understand where you're coming from, because
you were surrounded by all this, but you didn't buy into the bullshit, and you had to work harder to kind of keep up keep up with the Joneses. But, you know, like, you kind of saw what was possible. And that was one of the things that maybe I was a little bit started with was like, all that business crap, all those kind of types of people around me. And again, I didn't come from the most working class family like my parents, you know, pretty smart. And then I could pretty good living. But you know, like, there wasn't many handouts you know, like, that helps helped me along the way inside mom and, and whatnot, but you know, like, it's like daddy sucky. kind of always says, you know, sure. I can't give you some money to help you out. You don't want it? It's a band aid. It's, it's fake. It's not real. You know what I mean? You want to sponsor the daily talk show is
you got a business or it doesn't matter.
And that's the funny thing is neither he thinks he's always said, you know, he goes a fucking crazy on this. Yeah, he thinks we're nuts. Like, he can't fathom it. It just, it's just not well,
the straw that broke the camel's back was probably the skate park in
in your office. Was that a stretch? Was it like getting that was what's been those big stretches for you? Like Tommy and I have just taken out a lease on a new place. That's a little bit of a stretch. That was
our first one to show that second fact that first that first factory. So the story goes was we're in mom's garage who's starting to do Okay, and then so lame it's almost embarrassed about but adult died and our childhood dog died. I mean, Alex just kind of somehow banded together like Band of Brothers and what are we doing? Like let's let's just take this seriously. It wasn't like we were
like a movie but I think that the each big movie I can imagine
saying that would love I would love for someone
like john wick, so don't end up killing everybody because you don't kill
This is the third time you've mentioned
not to bring down your dog's death. Logan Paul's dog just got taken taken by Coyote. Really? That dog has 2.1 million followers on Facebook
Instagram shit. Anyway, sorry to be calling the market
2.1 million followers dogs passed away.
Yes a dog pass away and we're I remember will like bit literally digging the hole on a hot day in mom's backyard mean Alex you know trying to bury this fucking dog like because
that's all you have to do. Right? I could have never thought I've never had a dog die when I've been an adult. Yeah,
get rid of it. And this this dog was like, it wasn't like a small like it was 30 kilos 35 G's what was it was spring spaniel, but was pretty overweight. My mom's? I shouldn't say this. But my mom. She's multi. She's good at feeding the creatures around me.
the dog got fed a lot. But um, but that wasn't the cause of death. No, it wasn't the cause of death of
diabetes. Yeah. Yeah.
No, I didn't
fucking kill me. She will listen to me. She loves me. Yeah, so we buried the dog. And we just like, you know what, fuck it. Let's just let's get out of here. Let's do this properly. And let's give this real crack. And we took out. It's so funny. The place we found was looking back on it. It was it wasn't even a risk. But it was a massive risk for us. Because you know, it was like 1600 per month, which again, it's fuck all but to us, you know, like were 20 I think I was 23 and Alex is 21
Yeah, we took out this lease. We started looking we found this place. And the thing that was so funny, the place we ended up in right. So it was off sunshine road, the Tottenham station, which I'm sure you but you have no fucking I don't know. Yeah. Okay, so it's just the Tottenham station. So the first street is turned into a sour Grove. And that's my mother's first name, right. The Second Street turn into James court is my dad's first name, which is just like so fucking we have a line. Yeah, I said I remember. I remember I said it to Alex.
What was the moon doing that?
shining bright? Yes, definitely. Yeah,
it's pretty was pretty weird. So as soon as I said well, fucking well, you know classic me being superstitious and kind of fucking airy fairy like that. Alex is just didn't take any notice of it. I was like, you know, like,
that's the Brian. Yeah,
Brian the right hand right thing. And I was just like, you know, like, this is we're going to end up here. This is for sure. I mean, sure. One of the cross the that because there's like an industrial to say estate. You know, like there's kind of those use shapes and whatever. Yeah.
Literally across the car park was a manufacturer on grind that we still use today.
Oh, yeah. Well, I feel like how much of it is conjuring a story to make you okay with this
added pressure decision? Yeah,
cuz I look at what we've just gone into. And I was thinking, this I was thinking we need a multi level space, different rooms. And it's like, it is what I was thinking. And it went in a country it was on the market and then it got taken off and then Josh message is back on the market. And then we ended up with ended up signing sick. So how much is that may just going, this is how we're getting probably a bit of that delusion. Yeah, that's, that's how
it was like, literally three weeks ago, I said, I said to everyone at work, and I said, I started on this wall part. I said, I'm going to get myself on a fucking podcast, and I'm going to do it. Really? Yeah. This is the second one I've been
on because they say what's a fucking poker?
Otherwise, like, what's a podcast is like YouTube. I was like, Nah, man. It's like this is
she don't worry, man. We got you have it on YouTube. And that's it.
That's why I came on.
You can't miss it. Yeah.
Do you look at stories like American Apparel and stuff like that and deconstruct where things go wrong for those
businesses? It's hard with those kind of businesses because it's like what you're saying before there's so much fat Yeah. So much fat like you just like at some point, you know, you got that much fat on you get unhealthy and you die. It's that simple. It's like and the fat bang the bulk of the business, the bulk of the business too much. Too many employees too many stolen public and everything. Like it's a lot right. Many other heads, you know, you're going against faster, smarter businesses. Now, you know, like, you know, why someone going to buy an unbranded American Apparel thing versus a really cheap patient? Anything? No, you can't beat that all unique or whatever. Right. And yeah,
that's, that's, that's just kind of how the cookie crumbles. Like, if you're not dynamic, and ahead of everyone, we had did, yeah, it's, it's really ruthless like that. And it's kind of funny how, like, that's what we've kind of built us ourselves on is that we're just super dynamic, super, super fast. Like, I remember, about a year ago, we got a couple of consultants in to kind of help me with some ideas that I had had, I wanted to build this kind of custom messaging thing that we use to directly message people. It's kind of amplifies my brain and allows me to hit more people way more efficiently. Anyway,
you are a fucking robot.
just plugged into the but so one of the things he said was like, he was saying, because he's used to working with like, IBM and all these big corporates, and he was saying, and he was saying that, like, I need access to all this stuff, said, fuck, no worse. He go, yeah, go off, go, go do it. And he was just like, well, I wasn't actually. And he was like, he said to me, he got more work done with us in two weeks than he did at the other place in four months. Well, because he's
having to check with seven people to make anything happen.
He said to get the access to actually even start doing the work talking for fucking we're gonna have to go to the person above them, the person above them and the person and then like, someone didn't like it.
It's just that that those levels, there's mass organizational pyramids, that just slow shut down and they're like, you know, like, this world. And I think this world is going to become more like this. It's going to be a whole bunch of series of dynamic speedboats. You know, businesses being speedboats running these massive oil tankers that take for me to react to anything. Yeah.
Have you ever had to cut the fat in each pig? sofa? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
we have. It was pretty. It's pretty awesome. That was one of the one of the many things you learn is like, and I swear by it now, it's that whole notion of you know, you know, like,
the analogy is, is, you know, when you're on the airplane, and you're about to take off and the doing the safety, ministrations or whatever. And they say, when the oxygen comes down, make sure you put yours on first. Because you can't help anyone if you're dead. Yeah, it's the same with us. It's the same with business. It's like, at some point, if I'm not fucking breathing, well, I can't help you guys. Anyway, yeah, so to save. I know, it sounds like fucking Captain America, whatever. But to save the majority, sometimes you have to sacrifice a few. And that's really hard to do, and really sucks. And we've had to do that. With the workforce with staff, we've had to deal with customers. Like, for instance, you know, like, as, as, like, we started on pole club, and we made our name on top clothing and holding long, long, long garments. And like, you know, that was our thing. We made a fuck load
of money off it? Is it designed specifically for tall people? Oh,
it's just, you know, like, when, when the first clothing companies were designed, and and, and build or whatever, you know, people will really wide and five foot five, but citizen, but humans are like that anymore. We walk in all of us or what? Around the six foot mark, right? But the human physiology has changed. So we kind of adapted to kind of be built around that and go for that small little nation. And we don't need to hit everyone or whatever. And one of the things was as tall clothing started going out of fashion, it's going to trend within our core audience. And, you know, we had a shitload of customers that were still creating it. And we decided to cut it heads ever, like was fucked. Like we chopped up a massive part portion of the business to save another portion. And that was the way we went. And that was really hard to do. And it fucking hurts really bad. Does it work though? Yeah, it's work now What now? Now we're, we're, yeah, we're in a great position. And we're in a great spot. And we're doing lots of different things. And we're able to hit different people are able to, you know, hit a bigger majority of us. Audience and segment,
how much clearer Are you guys now have one success looks like then when you first started? In terms of like, what, even just personally for you and your brother?
Where the ship's going? Yeah, we Yeah,
what direction you're heading.
we're in a good spot. Now. It's funny in the last again, like I was saying to you, when I first came here, you caught me at a pretty interesting time where we're changing a lot of things. We're doing a lot of things that would rip other businesses, absolutely in half. But because we're so dynamic, what are those things look like? So one of the things is, instead of being so at the moment, last, last sight, let's say 12 months arguments, like we've been dropping two releases a week. And that's fucking fast. Yeah, that's really fast, like, Alex is having to design and have things manufactured and run production, for two releases a week for 12 months. And then that means I have to then, you know, for instance, the logistics of it, just like the basic logistics is, the product comes you have the world before that, sorry. It's, it gets designed, it gets manufactured, he's got to manage it all. He's gonna make sure all the trends are right, he's going to make sure that all the grading throughout all the numbers that it comes in, then it's going to get photos, then I'm going to start pre ordering it then it's you know, it goes on the website. I'm gonna start telling the story. We're gonna start marketing it. We're doing that twice a week. Crazy. It's Fuck, yeah, it's insane pace. What's the planning that goes, do you know, every year sit down and map out the next 12 months? This is going on? Like, like, you guys, fucking day with fucking running at 110%. Like, I've been running at 110% for nine years. It's it's not it's like, the stamina involved? And like the just the sheer kind of? I don't know, like, it's amazing. We haven't snapped in half. But we're still going. But so anyways, one of the things we're we're focusing on now is, is we've realized that, you know, to get to the next level, because we've gotten to this ceiling, we've gotten to this place where we've kind of I feel like we've maximized what we can do with it always described us as we're like, a big fish in a really fucking small pond, kind of trapped in this pond. We have eaten all the food in the pond, like because, you know, like, we're just, we're just really good at that. So what we're trying to do is we're trying to find a new pond, which is a new audience. Yeah, that's the metaphor there. Yeah.
It's not a pond, like, at the moment. Do you think it is at the skating community? You want to Skype bowl at the moment? I think
so. I think it's like, it's just a, it's a niche within Australia, the Australian wide, you know, for whatever the parameters are that people hear of us. We've almost maximized all of them. We're getting new customers. But for us to get to the next big step, which is what we want to do in that start creating some noise and put us you know, Melbourne, Australia on the map, as a clothing brand and start really selling globally. We need to slow down the releases and rely more on our core items, which we haven't hadn't, like, we haven't traded school. So like for instance,
our best product is this hoodie, black. Yep. We have literally had this, this hood in black in stock. I think it's for 72 hours this year. Well, it's locked. Yeah. Like It's unheard of.
Is that where is it? Google trolling your
thing? We thought it was good, because we were basing our model off, you know, supreme supply and demand all this stuff, right? But the thing is, is like, we're not Supreme, we can't run like that. We can't, we've had to change our strategy. And you know, like, again, like, I probably shouldn't be on this podcast talking about our flaws, but fuck it. I'm an open honest garden shit. I mean, fuck, you know, like, the people out there that I'm not saying your audience would hate on me. But you know, the people out there that know what I'm going through, know what I'm going through. But the people that the naysayers, it's like, Well, fuck you, you're not doing it, you know, flip them off. But so one of the things we're trying to do is we're going to try and slow it down. So that, you know, it gives us time to think plan to put more time into things to do bigger collaborations to think about, you know, well, if we want to have a pop up store in Japan, how do you actually physically do that? If you want to build a relationship with a podcast or whatever? Or, you know, Stephen, start my own podcast? Where does the time for that go? Because right now, my time is so saturated with just stuff day in day out? It's like,
is this two types of employees in a business, right? And you guys will know this? Because you guys will both struggle both in this. There's operations, and then there's strategy, the more you guys can be strategy, the better your business will be. But it's harder to do, right? You guys often get stuck in the nitty gritty in the operations the days what actually doing shit. And that's the thing we're trying to transition from is not being so heavily operations based. It's it's tricky, because it costs you money, because, you know, no one makes more money than you right? Yeah,
that's a fucking good at your job. No one who doesn't know and does it better than us? Exactly. That's what you think for a long time. Yeah.
And then it's like, you gotta you gotta learn, relinquish control. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta learn to compromise, you got to be better as managerial people, then you kind of split your time between, you know, getting shit done making money and managing someone, and then strategy stuff. So that's kind of where we're at the moments like, we're really trying to focus on, you know, having Alex and I who are probably, you know, obviously, the best to people at the business to tackle? Or how do we get an international market? What one of the things that we need to do, who are the people that we need help with to go find because one of the things that we've always struggled with, is, we're really good at selling and, and, and making sales. And Alex makes it a fucking amazing product, which I'm sure you to now know what I'm talking about, right? But we haven't really had anyone in the middle meet us with marketing. Because a, we haven't need to because the product speaks for itself, it just sells itself. And be it's actually the hardest problem in the room, it's easier just to kind of say, fuck I gotta make I gotta make X amount of dollars today to keep the business running was really that's, that's, that's a scapegoat. not cheating, but it's just taking the easy way out. And so what we've tried to focus on doing is, you know, allocating portions of the day, you know, two hours a day on, we call it future future shit. what's what's tomorrow going to look like? What's, you know, two weeks away going to look like? And that's, that's one of the big things is that we're focusing on at the moment is trying to try to enhance, enhance that, and I'm sure you guys have, well, I'm not sure I know, you guys have had people on this podcast, that are fucking killing that
they're really good at it. We can get whiplash from like switching between Yeah, have you found that like, the residual sort of
mental strain of going from thinking about strategic and five years ahead, and how we're going to get into x market versus the reality of we actually need to fulfill this order today?
Um, I haven't, I haven't kind of gotten that. One of the things that I'm really good at, you know, everyone around me doesn't agree with me.
I feel I can, I can manage a lot of things at any one time. And that even when I'm talking to people, on Facebook, or wherever trying to try to make sales or whatever, I can easily manage 10 conversations at once flat out, you know, whilst doing something else,
until you call Peter Dave? back, you
always send someone the wrong link with someone else's details. Well,
something Josh and I do is we try and dedicate time that we know we're going to spend on talking about the future stuff. Yeah, then, like anything. There's a moment where we get into conversation. next minute, we've spent an hour but yeah,
we don't want to leave you on the tangent. Yeah, I think that we always do. And, well, sorry, one thing that we've kind of implemented lightly, and it works really well. And it just seems like such a no brainer. You know, it's kind of embarrassing saying it. But right now the actual. So if you're going to have an hour conversation, sure. That's way that's fine. But what are the actual what are the actual things that's going to start you on that journey to getting you to the path that you want to get to? Whether that's, you know,
what, one thing one thing you know, three weeks ago, I said, I'm going to get myself on a podcast. Now. That's all very well and good. Kumbaya. Let's hold hands, right. But we can't do it.
Well, you sort of did motion it. Yeah. You guys kind of
color. Okay with that, you know, we do that. Yeah.
I'm just trying to I just got triggered to a moment the other day, where someone put their hand out, and I thought they were going to shake my hand, but we were getting our tires changed. And it was the guy from Kmart Tire and Auto. And he was wanting the he goes up, we're gonna need this beforehand. It was the case, but he put his hand out. And Bry knocks my head.
I went to shake it. Anyway, I just got triggered in that moment of that.
telling you, I'm absolutely.
So saved because it was so it was subtle enough that I think that he he saw he saw what happened. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Anyway, so we're always talking about the hand holding.
So, you know, I'm saying, you know, I'm going to get myself on these podcasts. Right. So one of the actual set I did from, I mean, that was kind of like a self meeting. But one of the actual things that I've done and I've implemented in the past is when someone asks you, how you how's your day going? What are you working on at work? actually say it? I don't say, Oh, yeah, I'm good things. Great.
Busy, busy. Everyone says that right? Now say
you say so. How's it going, man? Yeah, good. How are you? Yeah, I'm good. I actually make a conscious effort to actually talk about what I'm doing. Yeah. And then then you get people actually going well, well, I know someone that did it, or this is interesting. And then you actually starting to get information and ideas from someone. almost for free. Yeah.
I've had like a time where I've consciously put that in place for a couple of days. Yeah, I didn't go at all time in and out. But it's interesting. So I mean, if everyone did it, you'd probably have a whole bunch of conversations. lines. You might might on bad. Let me tell you about it. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, there is that, obviously, but I mean, it comes down to that thing about as what what you were saying about before that lightbulb moment, once I started actually doing that and talking about what I'm talking about, always get this reaction? Jesus fuck. Who doesn't want to shit? Yeah, that's fucking interesting. Wow, that's excited. And like, and then at that point, I realized
without saying, like a geek again, like I'm like, I'm an interesting, engaging person that people some most of the time genuinely want to help they want to talk to. And I'm aware of that now.
Well, if people's intentions like if I'd be up for helping someone if they asked like, yeah, maybe it's, we've started the matters in marketing approach, which Josh and I have never gone down, which is essentially asking people if they need our help. Yeah. Which can in Australia, I feel like, you know, the sales route is, you know, a bit stinky for a lot of people. Yeah,
marketing. Marketing is hard. Because it's, it's such an intangible. It's black magic kind of stuff. Like people just,
it makes sense. If you're just saying, Hey, guys, is what we do. If you need a hand, let us know. It's like, yeah,
sure, they'll get well because you can push back on it and saying us sales, stinky or whatever. But it's, in some regards. It's just clear communications, we've got this that we think that we can add value for this is the actual thing. Sometimes, Tommy and I can fall in the trap of being like, are, we should try and do a video for them. Let's reach out to them about x, y, and Zed and maybe get involved like, rather than just fucking going directly to the thing and saying this is it? Yeah.
Like Like if you if you think you can help me just fucking Show me. Yeah, show me show you what I'm weak at put a put together an example and say, Hey, man, I'm from such and such and such, I noticed you did this. This is this is what I reckon will help. He's the thing. Yeah, just you know, like, it's almost like a quote, it's like,
if it's a only if it's the only weapon in your arsenal, it's probably the wrong approach. Because I think that's when we do say to stinky businesses that just a, they've built a business around direct sales. Like
it's never one thing, right? I think that's the thing we're looking at is anything any piece of advice, the opposite is normally true as well. It's like this. I can, it's tuning in flowing between everything. And that's the balance.
Definitely. I mean, that's how these these these guys that have helped me, you know, they're helping us design this app that helped me
get product onto certain influences that helped me build this custom up thing that maybe we could fucking sell later on. Like, that came from literally me at the start of this year saying about three things that I need to sort. I need to build a skate park, I need to find a sororities priorities. I need to build a skatepark I need to build an app and need to find out how to design a system. Anytime someone asked me What are you working on at work or house things? Whatever. I would make sure the conversation got to those three points. Good idea. Make sure like yeah, like I just talked about it. They actually talk about what's in my world and it fucking I got these guys. These guys came along. They fucking helped me out and then they got my ear about you know, building Skype, I condone it and then, you know, sure enough, I'm doing Skype talk with all my friends and talking about and then one dumb night. I'm fucking I take a stupid selfie of myself a Nana's with all the boys. You know, it just so happens that the head of chaos Yeah, you know, tells tells his mom Yeah, each picture do they read most? Yeah. And then of course, they repost him. Bang a moment. Yeah, I'm talking to him. Yeah. And you know, you know, those two girls they fucking amazing.
I think better. I think we're getting better and better at that. Like with the daily talk show and what sort of thing it's like at the beginning. It seems like it's you don't know where it's going to go. And they say there's something Yeah. Scary about communicating the direction because if you don't make it, you're fucking idiot. Yeah. But what's the other option? Yeah.
don't your hands. You sit on your hands. And you know,
man, it'd be great to have you back on when we're in the new office. Yeah.
And I want to skate your park and I think Josh does to
got a pair to my car. My house I can I can bring in everyone asked your son's when
they reach pads elbow on everything. Yeah, we need to take out a veterans policy before we
Yeah. If you had too many skaters have herniated discs and shit. Yeah,
you think right. That's what I felt like I see like he marathon runner has two herniated discs that's like well, so the why of mine just happened because I sat for too long and lifted some shit but same time. It's big night
What just quickly what you said most things have a bit of a story this it's big that I'm getting this is a my jumper. What is this about? What is
that like? escape pod feature? So actually, this is designed by one about long, long, long time customers who's now working for us as the graphic designer, meta Swinburne. And he's we're trying to teach him how to kind of help Alex a little bit. Thanks, Christian. He's, he's it's funny. All three of these brothers have worked for us as well. It's sick. And so the the roses are built a little skatepark pace. is a rant there's a rail is another down right.
That's where Josh breaks. EOB Yeah, yeah.
You fucking talk about it. It's gonna happen. We actually need to be like Josh is gonna be great at Skype.
I think you're going to be Yeah, yeah, it seems like you can really yeah, I
can see my top three now anytime. Hey, yeah, yeah, good, man. I'm real pumped for Josh is gonna be one of the best skaters in Melbourne. So I reckon there is.
Think about it
mentioned the moment Josh drops in. It's a big moment for us. Yeah.
It's crazy. Like we've had, we've had that moment of, like, you know, a couple of girls that came three weeks ago. I watched them learn tricks for the first time it's like to spark the joy on their faces like oh my god. Yeah. Epic. It's like it's crack.
It's in. It's in the woman's footy. Yeah, women's footy. It's pretty scary. I want to get my side of that. Like,
But that doesn't mean I'm going to be like, if we use women's footy as an example. This doesn't mean that I can do it still. Because they're, they're all athletes. This is the problem
anyway. Absolutely. It's a perception some Yeah, absolutely.
No, I think I'll be able to be out doing so. I agree. I agree. Hi, the daily talk show.com if you want to send us an email, otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow guys say guys like this.