Schools and Prison

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's a Daily Talk Show episode 280.

Tommy: It's Monday, it's the start of the week. How are you?

Josh: Very good. Yeah, uh, you were having a go at me a few weeks ago about—

Tommy: which one?

Josh: Oh, there's many times I'm having a go at you in regards to what, uh, the official day, first day of the week is.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm happy to clear this up right now. I don't know what world you're fucking living in, but Monday, the start of the week, bro.

Josh: Well, we're talking about the gym going 3 days a week, and I'd said to you, even if I go on Saturday, yes, it would only make it 2 days that I'd been. You said, well, you still got Sunday.

Tommy: Yeah, exactly, another day.

Josh: Sunday is a new week.

Tommy: No, it's not.

Josh: I don't know, there's nothing, nowhere else we can really go with that.

Tommy: I don't know what primary school, what, what school you went to out in the suburbs where they're just spinning fake news.

Josh: Sunday, Sunday is actually the start. Like, your method of Monday is the start of the week, yeah, to Sunday, uh, is sort of a little bit, um, immature.

Tommy: Are you also running on the Israeli financial system of doing your tax return at Jan 1? Is it end of the financial year? So they do— their financial year is Jan 1 to December 31st, and so Are you doing that too, bro? Because my week starts on Monday like everyone else's here. You can say that you're like, oh, it's the restart, I sort of get it jigged, but it doesn't, bro.

Josh: But I think that if you look at a calendar, I have a feeling that it would be Sunday is the first day.

Tommy: Uh, what does that matter? It doesn't mean— like, I know what you mean, but when you run a week, it's like Monday to Sunday is 7 days.

Josh: Mr. 97, this is actually— this actually makes a lot of sense to get you in. Um, what, what do you think?

Mason: I've literally just Googled it. Yeah, according to the international standard ISO, Monday is the first day of the week.

Tommy: Fuck, that feels good.

Josh: The international—

Tommy: it feels good. ISO, ISO, ISO. What does ISO stand for?

Mason: 8601. It's like international, international certification.

Tommy: Mate, I'm happy with that. I'm always happy for a win on a Monday.

Josh: It sounds good. Mr. 97, what did you actually Google to, to get that? Because if you didn't look at Monday—

Mason: official start of the week.

Josh: Okay. Oh, all right. Well, that could be fun. Like, what's the official start of the week?

Tommy: I'm happy to say that.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Awesome, you're back on board with everyone else.

Josh: To be clear, like, who taught you that?

Tommy: Who taught you that propaganda?

Josh: The thing is that in this moment I want to bring you down. You asked me how to spell friend the other day.

Tommy: Yeah, because when I was writing it— fair, this is fair— you know when you write a word out, you're like, fuck, that doesn't look— it was like when I wrote quote on the board and we were like, that's not how you spell it. And we're looking at it, that's what we try and do.

Josh: We're trying to work out, you know, getting all the business structure working out, how we're doing quoting.

Tommy: Spend 40 minutes Mate, to be fair, to be fair, I was writing on a whiteboard. And when you write shit on a whiteboard—

Josh: writing on the whiteboard—

Tommy: I was looking for the little squeal underneath the word.

Josh: Because remember, no, you were typing. Because remember, I think what, uh, threw us was you had caps lock on.

Tommy: Uh, yes.

Josh: And so it was all capitals.

Tommy: And then anyway, I was writing friend on the whiteboard.

Josh: I remembered how to spell friend.

Tommy: Visualization, guys. Looking for some friends.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. Put it out there, the secret. Yeah, um, I actually knew how to spell friend. That was one of the few words when I was younger.

Tommy: Yeah, uh, because I mean, they teach you hippopotamus. They'd give you a song for that.

Josh: I wouldn't know how to—

Tommy: H-I-double-P-O-P-O-T-A-M-U-S. Hippopotamus. Yeah, something like that. Anyway, is that— but there was a song. Hey, was it— do you remember that, Mr. 97? No, no, he was— he's from a cooler generation where there's cooler shit going on rather than trying to learn hippopotamus.

Josh: Cyberbullying when he grew up. You didn't have to worry about that. The, um, no, fry your friend to the end, which has some holes because fry is spelled F-R-Y, but, um, that was how, how I would remember how to spell friend. Fry your friend to the end. I like that.

Mason: Yeah.

Josh: Any, uh, any sort of favourite skills when you were a kid?

Tommy: Uh, not as a kid.

Josh: Six times tables were really strong for me.

Tommy: I mean, this is any of that academic stuff.

Josh: Ask me your sixes.

Tommy: I know 6, 6, 36. That was— that's Brett. Like, I know my timetables. And there was always the kids that were just fucking spruiking that they knew, and I know 1 to 12. It's like, well, fuck you, you don't know anything. What does it really matter? Yeah, this is it. But how much anxiety was there around that shit? Like, for kids, it's like, yeah, I guess it's— maybe it's like cool to know this stuff.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But it's not really— like, I reckon I learned more in terms of— maybe because I was just applying myself more post-school. So yeah, post-school, like when I was working in a canteen counting money, is like, I reckon when I started to really go— I was connecting the dots from what I learned in school, but then I'm just like doing the, doing the close-up of the till, and it felt really good. And then I was like, started to learn it all.

Josh: Well, I— Bree and I had an argument, uh, on Saturday because I felt that she was, uh, acting dumb when she's not dumb. So I'll give you an example. Uh, we were looking— we found this rental place, it's awesome, it's way cheaper than what we thought. We spoke to the lady downstairs who's like the property manager, or she was like on behalf of the property manager. And we said we really love it. She said what I'd recommend is putting in a slightly higher offer, which seems crazy for rental places doing offers. Do you think that's crazy?

Tommy: Oh, it's pretty common. Yeah, it's pretty common, especially in like the high demand areas. Bondi, people are always like, chuck you $20 extra a week.

Josh: So we did $10 extra a week, and so Bri got the fucking calculator out to work out $10 a week, how much that is in a year. 520. She's like, wow, how did you work it out so quickly? I said, it's times 10, you add the 0 at the end. And so I was just like, what's—

Tommy: if it was 12, I'd be a bit rattled. 10, even 5 is easy.

Josh: Yeah, don't you think? Yeah, because it's half of 10. Anyway, what I got upset with was because she's like, no, I'm just not good at maths. I'm like, no, that's just— it feels at that point like you're just not thinking. Yeah, don't you think?

Tommy: I mean, that one you're pretty safe. It's an even number.

Josh: Percentages, I'm good.

Tommy: Add an extra zero on. Like, I couldn't remember any, like algebra. What the fudge is that?

Josh: I actually got— why did you just not swear and say fudge?

Tommy: I felt like saying fudge. Now I want fudge.

Josh: But is that— was there an active effort there to swear less?

Tommy: Yeah, I swear quite a bit, you know, just lower it down a bit. We're talking about how people are being dumb. Maybe I'll come across Less dumb if I, if I say fudge.

Josh: Uh, the algebra was actually the best, the best math score I ever got was in algebra.

Tommy: I couldn't tell you what it is.

Josh: Algebra, it's like, it's—

Tommy: give me, give me a, a use case of algebra in your adult life. Um, like when in a moment have you needed that?

Josh: So if it's like x times y equals Yeah, so X.

Tommy: I mean, you don't have to give me one. I've given you that to ask because if there's not one there, it proves my point. No, but if you're actually knowing—

Josh: I think it's probably like abstract sort of stuff. Yeah, maybe.

Tommy: Well, there's a lot of, a lot of dumb stuff being taught.

Josh: Bree told me that I couldn't— when I said that, she said, well, you can't spell. I didn't realise it was a tit-for-tat sort of thing.

Tommy: Well, it is because you just did it a moment ago when I celebrated my win and then you said, well, if you're talking about that, you can't bloody spell friend.

Josh: Well, I actually—

Tommy: Did she get you though? What was the one she got you with?

Josh: She could do anything, but my point was I'm like, yeah, but they're difficult words. You could have— I would be okay with her having a go if it's like an easy word that I get wrong. And my point was the 10 times table, yes, you should be able to do to affinity.

Tommy: Oh, of course, 1,000 times 10.

Josh: 10,000. Yeah, okay, 1,000 times 400.

Tommy: 400,000. Is that right?

Josh: I don't know, 400 times 10.

Tommy: I don't know, I'm— look, here's the thing, we need it, we need to lift our, um, compliments game. All right, so these are all criticism, right? If you're sort of pointing out someone's fuck-up. Well, it is 100% a criticism, and I'm not saying for you, right? You do it all the time with me, but it's, it's fine. But I was thinking, Mason, Mr. 97 gave me a compliment the other day.

Josh: The answer is 4,000, by the way.

Mason: Add a zero.

Josh: You just add a zero at the end.

Tommy: I couldn't see it, wasn't written.

Josh: Can we just do it just quickly before the compliment? Yes. 600 times 10.

Tommy: 6,000.

Josh: Thank you. All right, it's very easy, everyone. Yeah, 1 times 10.

Tommy: 1 times 10 is 10.

Josh: You know that someone's panicking when they're saying retelling.

Tommy: Well, because I'm trying— I'm not a maths guy, so I'm saying, resaying it to, to see what, what you're saying.

Josh: But it was a constant tactic I used to use doing the timetable thing. I was the first, uh, white kid in my class to be number 1 in times tables. Really? Yeah, which is big because the— specifically my Asian and Indian friends, their parents would get them working so hard.

Tommy: Really?

Josh: They they would do, what was that, what was the school called outside of school?

Tommy: Kumon.

Josh: Kumon.

Tommy: So it's like after— Kumon's in New York as well. I saw it there when we were there. Mr. 97 gave me a compliment and I was thinking, I hadn't thought, I think it's probably a good thing if you started to try and implement a compliment a day for somebody else in your life. And I haven't, I mean, I've criticised your neckbeard today. Well, I wasn't off to a good start.

Josh: That's literally what I was going to say. But can we talk about how the neckbeard came about? I said to Tommy, mate, you're looking sharp, your beard looks great.

Tommy: I didn't, I didn't—

Josh: Tommy's response is, yeah, it's annoying though because now yours is going to look shit next to mine. Like, how you're talking about compliments and that's how it's framed. Can you understand how I literally had written down, do you know, like that was in Asana to talk about today. I'd fucked up the word beard and wrote beers comp because beers comp—

Tommy: well, something you've never been—

Josh: sorry, bears comp.

Tommy: I was gonna say beers comp, something you've never been involved in.

Mason: I know.

Josh: So, but I just I just thought that it was a little bit rich asking for compliments.

Tommy: No, I mean, you've— you're off to a good one. I'm saying I think it's something I should probably do more of. It's like, give a compliment.

Josh: Do it.

Tommy: What? No, I don't need to give it. I'll think about one. But Mr. 97's was really lovely.

Josh: Is it to you?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So you're using this opportunity— you don't have one for me? Hang on.

Tommy: Not yet. I haven't—

Josh: you don't have one for me, but you've got one that Mr. 97 gave to you?

Tommy: I've got a compliment.

Josh: And you want to repeat I've got a compliment. Okay, here we go.

Tommy: It's really impressive that you've prepped a whole bunch of food today, man. That's great. It's really great.

Josh: It's good.

Tommy: You're happy with that?

Josh: It was all right. But also, when I was having— trying to be good and eating more sort of snacks and protein.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Um, I started getting the egg, and the first thing you said is, ah, couldn't be a better time to have an egg. What?

Tommy: Well, we were about to start the show. It's, uh, It was like just about to hit 9:30 when we— it's actually 9:34, I think, when it's go time. So we're already running late then, and you decide to open an egg. But I was impressed because the egg— here's another compliment, mate. I saw how you handle that egg. You handled it with grace and you got that thing out of its shell very quickly.

Josh: It doesn't actually— it doesn't bother me shelling eggs. Are you shelling eggs? Yeah.

Tommy: Or you haven't shelled— have you shelled a bad egg?

Josh: No. Then have you shelved a bag? Yeah, the, um, I never knew what shelving— uh, Mr. 97 on the mic for a sec, do you know what we're at?

Tommy: What, what Josh is about to do is ask a 19-year-old kid who does tax returns with his mates at fucking 2 AM instead of out in the club.

Josh: So when I was 23, I was working on the Fee Fan Jules show, and Jules made a joke about— someone said something about shelving, and he had a big laugh. And I had no idea what he was laughing about. Do you know what shelving is?

Mason: No idea.

Josh: So shelving is putting—

Tommy: he's not even a little Christian boy—

Josh: uh, is putting things in your ass like drugs. So you shelve, you put— and is it a way of making it get you quicker or something?

Tommy: Oh yeah, it can, it can get— I, I think the purpose is that it gets into your bloodstream quicker.

Josh: So shelving. Yeah, so there you go.

Tommy: I mean, yeah, I actually had some surgery and then they told me that they'd put something up my bum.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Yeah, well, they put like, what was the painkillers, medication? So I had, I think I had my elbow and my, um, my wrist cracked back in because it was like bent, fell off my skateboard, and I didn't, it didn't break my arm, it bowed my arm because like young kids, their bones are still sort of malleable.

Josh: That's what I was thinking.

Tommy: And so yeah, it bent and, and But I just remember waking up and I think they said something like, yeah, you've had some painkillers. I was like, how? Anyway, when Amy had given birth, they just shoved after the birth, after the birth. They don't even tell you, just put a little something up there.

Josh: Not because I've had an epidural before, I had two herniated discs. I worry about all these things we mentioned that it's going to be very hard for me to get health coverage and stuff in the future. Do you think this is gonna be transcribed and they'll be like, that's interesting, that is a thought.

Tommy: People who have podcasts, we could take everything and just, you could put it into a system and, and just run it for keywords and come back with like, yep, this guy has not got much time to live.

Josh: The Genius Bar. I'm going to return a MacBook Pro, I'm trying to get it fixed. Like, look, we just ran through some transcriptions, it turns out that you actually dropped your laptop.

Tommy: Yeah, we— yeah, that is, that is for life.

Josh: What were you just talking— you were— so it wasn't about compliments. What was the thing that you were just talking about before I interrupted? It was something interesting.

Tommy: Was it? I can't remember.

Josh: Do you know what's awkward though? When you say, I had something really interesting that I wanted to tell you, and you work out that it's really self-absorbed.

Tommy: Was I saying— was it the compliment that Mason had given me?

Josh: Yeah, what was the compliment?

Tommy: Oh, he just said— he just gave me a nice compliment about my hair. He's like, oh yeah, that your hair— because I'm growing my hair. And he's like, yeah, that really suits you. I didn't have a hat on, so I had it sort of pulled back, and he's like, that's right, yeah, mate, that really suits you, and the beard is really great. I was like, it's a nice thing to say, Mason. I just thought about it over the weekend. I was like, nice guy. And I was thinking, like, more compliments. As much like, I think we, we fall into the trap of giving each other shit constantly.

Josh: We're just like the, uh, like brothers.

Tommy: Yeah, you're always just finding a little, little fucker.

Josh: Can you bring me my book? An impromptu— yeah, that one. Thank you. The 20— what's, what's my segment called? 20 Pages In. Yeah, well, I just wanted just to quote something about brothers which made me think of not only, yeah, my relationships with my brothers, but also, uh, you and I.

Tommy: I, I see you more than my own brother and vice versa.

Josh: And so this is— this was, um, this resonated with me. Resonated?

Tommy: Well, do you know we spend more time— probably we spend more waking hours with each other than we do our girlfriends and wives?

Josh: Girlfriends and wives. And you see more time of your girlfriend than your wife at the moment, isn't it?

Tommy: I'm not wearing my rings actually. I haven't been wearing them for a week.

Josh: How does that feel?

Tommy: I took them off for a purpose.

Josh: What was it?

Tommy: Which was, um, going to the gym, and then I just forgot to put them back on.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: Yeah, but I'm not being sus or anything, I just haven't got them.

Josh: Could you get a tattoo or something? Yeah, I could like a finger tattoo.

Tommy: I did that. Anyway, what's this about? Brothers, tell us.

Josh: Brothers Fight. Yeah. And so this is, this is from, uh, The Late Shift: Letterman, Leno, and the Network Battle for the Night. This is the reason I love this one, is the smell. We've spoken about the smell.

Tommy: It's— yeah, it smells very dusty.

Josh: Dusty, dusty. Yeah. Uh, so this was something I just underlined. Okay. Brothers fight, and brothers at times want to inflict a punch that hurts. Definitely. So I thought that was good.

Tommy: That's it.

Josh: Yeah, that was, that was the line. I think that's true though. Yeah, I can do another line that's not related.

Tommy: Sometimes you just want to Just, yeah, give it a really corky, like a dead arm. Did you used to, with your brothers, do like dead arms? Like, I remember corking was a real big thing in my household where you'd just really get that knuckle prime just out, just boom, and get into the arm, and just arm would hurt for days.

Josh: I just had no— I had no tactic, this strategy. So what would happen is I would do something, and then my brother Jake would sort of do this sort of crazy thing where he would even— it would go slowly. It's like, what do you mean? Like, he just sort of— he would look at me like, I'm about to fucking kill you.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And I would scream and just run, but I knew that he would catch me.

Tommy: Did you do something to him before?

Josh: Yeah, so I would do something and then he would be like, it's time to retaliate. Yeah. And because I wouldn't have inflicted enough, enough to really piss him off, but not enough to like knock him out or anything.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah, so it's, um, it's—

Tommy: yeah, I could imagine jail. I went to visit a friend in jail and I was like just thinking about— and I was sitting there looking around and seeing sort of all these dudes, and it didn't feel scary at that moment, but I was like thinking about what, what the mindset would be like to be in jail. And I was thinking, a lot of shelving, a lot of shelving in jail.

Josh: I could imagine that because you could— because Mr. 97, you could shelve not only for the feeling, but you could hide things. Yeah, would that be called shelving?

Tommy: You can hide— yeah, sure.

Josh: Is the idea because it's a shelf? Like, it's a sh—

Tommy: I don't know, mate. You want to call it a pocket?

Josh: Just— yeah, it's pocketed.

Tommy: Just hiding in your secret cavity.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Anyway, I could imagine jail is like you had older brothers or just a bunch of brothers around, and you're always on edge that they're gonna fucking come out and give you a corking. But in this case, it could be a knife, it could be just a lot more brutal. And I just, I hated that. I hate that feeling. Like, I remember being young and being around mates where we would all be sort of punching each other and just, just pulling gags and just fucking on each other. And I— and it makes you feel like you're on edge, which I'm glad that's gone as an adult.

Josh: I feel like I would prefer solitary confinement. You would? Yeah, I would fucking thrive. Don't you think? Like an excuse. Well, can you listen to podcasts?

Tommy: No.

Josh: In jail? Are you sure?

Tommy: Uh, they've got TV. So the one I went to was a like a low, low security prison. They had like a DVD player, and I was told that they had porn on DVDs, but they kept on having them confiscated. So there's no access to internet as such in your room by yourself. But maybe like audio tapes or CDs. They're still like— they can't just be like, I'm going to download, you know, Joe Rogan's latest app. You couldn't. They can't. Look, it is jail for a reason. Yeah, but are they free?

Josh: They have computers.

Tommy: Yeah, but they're not—

Josh: they would—

Tommy: there would be specific time to be on the computers. Like, you can't just like— think about message— you'd just be WhatsApping all this, running a, running a small startup out of it. Do they do that?

Josh: I think— isn't that— I think that it's not as like, uh, um, strict is what I think.

Tommy: Well, totally depends on the jail, the level of security. There was one in— I— we made this when I was living in Shepparton. There wasn't— there was a jail probably 40 minutes from where we lived. And so I was on the radio there, and always there would be like someone else from the jail. Um, I can't remember what it's called, but Someone else has left. I said, what do you mean they've left? They literally just walk out the front door. So these jails are like, they're like housing units, but they're, they're like working farms as well. So you could, if you wanted to, just walk out.

Josh: Not allowed. Would you have to report? Would you be like, hey, it's, it's, uh, Tommy and Stacy, uh, for your mornings, uh, we've got another one on the loose.

Tommy: Yeah, there was, there was a news reporter that would sort of do the top of hour and stuff.

Josh: Would Joel do that? Would that be a Joel job?

Tommy: No, no, he was on the nighttime show. A friend of mine, he was on the TV show there. But we would always be like, fuck, can you just close the gate already? Like, just lock, lock the gate.

Josh: Seems pretty simple.

Tommy: But then when I went there, because this is the same prison that I ended up visiting my friend at, I was like, ah, okay, yeah, it is real low-key. Is it real low-key? Like, tax fraud people are in there, like low-end people on the back of their sentence when they've, you know, reformed after doing 10 years, 15 years.

Josh: 10, 15 years is a long time though.

Tommy: Yeah, well, they get these long stints and then sort of you work through the prison system from like, say it's a really bad crime, then you sort of, you do your time there, then they move down into another one.

Josh: Would that have been a halfway house or no?

Tommy: Well, it's to try and rehabilitate you into the society so you, you're not going from this 24 hours a day or 22 hours a day locked up to now you're out. It's like now you've got more responsibility, you're working on these farms, and so you're— they're trying to get you back into the system.

Josh: I wonder if, um, school excursions ever do prison.

Tommy: They do, uh, to Pentridge.

Josh: Mr.

Tommy: 97, you're saying what they used to do, um, to the old Melbourne Gaol?

Mason: My brother, he's, uh, going into Year 12, but Year 11 they had a— had an excursion. A legal excursion to a, um, yeah, prison.

Tommy: Oh, I love that.

Josh: And what was the— what did they actually learn? What do you know what happened?

Mason: Oh, they just spoke to a few inmates. They would have been selected before, and then yeah, they just had a chat to them. I don't know about what—

Josh: what did your bro say? What was the experience like?

Mason: Interesting. He said it— yeah, he didn't, he didn't mind it, but yeah, it was a bit weird just being in a prison and talking to inmates. Strange.

Tommy: Yeah, I feel like he learned about shelving that day.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's, he's now a smuggler for him.

Tommy: Yeah, it's Yeah.

Josh: What was your favourite excursion as a kid? Did you go anywhere exciting?

Tommy: Uh, we used to just go to like, uh, go to Visy. Yeah, so we did go to Visy. Visy is the cardboard or the recycling plant in Melbourne.

Josh: Before recycling was cool, dude.

Tommy: One of the kids, his uncle was either— it was either his grandfather was the dude or was like one of the head people at Visy. And so there was an in there for our primary school to go and, and see this plant. But I, I just, I have a slight memory of it. I can't really remember much. I got into like Old Melbourne Gaol was what I loved. I remember going there, which is the famous jail in, in Melbourne. You can still go there if you come to Melbourne. And that's where I think Ned Kelly was hung.

Josh: Hanged.

Tommy: Hanged. Sorry, that's where Ned Kelly hung. Would that be correct if I was to say he hung there for a little bit?

Josh: Potentially.

Tommy: But he was hanged. Yeah, he was hanged at, um, at this, at this prison. You can see like the, the trapdoor where it's like— I think that's the thing, you see these, these old places. Over the weekend I had— you would have loved it— my dad, um, his friend gave him one and then he bought one on the internet. And they're these books of St Kilda, the suburb that I live in, They're like these thick— they look like huge old Bibles.

Josh: Smell good?

Tommy: Yeah, they're super old, like much, much older than that. These are like— yeah, yeah, this is a piece of shit. This is a piece of shit.

Josh: No, no, what a joke!

Tommy: But compliment you, glad to see your reading.

Josh: It's great, it's great, I'm enjoying it. And so what was the book like?

Tommy: Yeah, these books are all photos and sort of the history of St Kilda, the suburb that we lived in, and it was only like 100 years ago, there was next to nothing in St Kilda. Now it's like one of the most thriving suburbs in Melbourne. But it's amazing, I was looking through these old photos and seeing like the old pub, the Espy, like the Village Bell. These are all like places I've gone to, to drink. And like, you see where, um, the Duchess of Cambridge sailed into the port.

Josh: Isn't that the What's her name?

Tommy: This is 100 and something years ago.

Josh: Who's the Duchess of Cambridge now? Isn't that old mate?

Tommy: Kate, is it? Yeah, yeah. Anyway, the, um, it's amazing just to see the history. And there is something about going to these places like the Old Melbourne Gaol that just gives you this like, wow, the old, olden days. I used to, I used to get my dad when, when I'd be going to bed.

Josh: It was a nice little touch, by the way. I liked that. If you're watching the video, tell me sort of You had another story, you just did like a really nice—

Tommy: it actually felt really creepy how I did it. You just did it there. I did back of the hand touch, I just did that. I don't even know why I did that.

Josh: You're describing it like TSA when they're doing the— because I got secondary screening because I went to Pakistan or whatever, it's on some list.

Tommy: What's TSA stand for? The security—

Josh: Mr. 007? Uh, Traffic Security Authority. That's— made that up.

Tommy: Terminal maybe?

Josh: Yeah, but anyway, so they're the people who do security and domestic in the US.

Tommy: They cheque if you're shelving anything.

Josh: Yeah, but they do, they basically, there was one time I went from secondary screening to third screening and the difference was, what was it? 97, do you know?

Tommy: Transport, Transportation Security Administration.

Josh: I'm not good at like saying things back when someone says that.

Tommy: That's why Mr. 97's not great at saying things on the mic either.

Josh: Exactly, that's fine.

Tommy: He's well off mic.

Josh: Just slightly off mic. The, um, yeah, so your third—

Tommy: you're into, you're into potential checking for shelving.

Josh: Yeah, so no, so they went from the first one is they sort of pat you down, and when they come to your crotch— crotch, crotch, crotch, crotch, crutches are like when you've broken a leg.

Tommy: Oh, thanks for that.

Josh: That's right though, isn't it? I used to say crutch, but it's crotch. Yeah.

Tommy: They're at your dick and what do they do?

Josh: So when it's second base or secondary screening, this is— these are your nuts. And so I'm just sort of like flicking the back of my hand. Yeah, like that. But then third, yeah, it's like direct contact.

Tommy: And actually, um, palm up, they actually—

Josh: for that, that's the only difference, but they take you behind a shield.

Tommy: Were you nude?

Josh: No, no, no.

Tommy: So they're, they're still Yeah, it's fully clothed, they're just fully clothed touching. Yeah, touching it. And so where are we going with that?

Josh: I don't know actually, we've got a good ball story. How did that actually— how did that come about?

Tommy: I don't know, Mr. 97's lost, he's just thinking of a hand.

Josh: Just, did you ever, did you ever get, uh, expelled or suspended from school?

Tommy: Um, I got— no, I never got expelled.

Josh: I got, uh, you definitely got suspended.

Tommy: I wasn't allowed to go on school camp, which was basically suspended.

Josh: And why weren't you allowed?

Tommy: It was—

Josh: is this like the train incident? You don't want to talk about it?

Tommy: No, no, no, it's not something— definitely not proud of it, but I was 11 years old and I thought it was a great idea to the people that were my friends, and I'm still like best friends with one of them today. I pulled her bra strap from behind and pulled it and slapped it onto her back. So I pulled it and it's a no-no. Don't fucking do that ever. Don't— I don't care how old you are.

Josh: I'm just— yeah, it was hard. Remember the conversation that they had?

Tommy: Oh, they were looking for any reason and it was a good reason.

Josh: That was the fact you being a sex pest is a pretty good reason.

Tommy: They were looking for any reason. I'm an 11-year-old kid with other 11-year-old kids.

Josh: You're an 11-year-old inappropriate pervert.

Tommy: I think there's a difference between a fucking adult doing that shit to a bunch of people. A kid doesn't know what fucking his left and right are, can't even spell friend at that point.

Josh: It's good that they— or today, yeah, but it's probably— it's good that they— like, do you think that that changed the course of how you acted?

Tommy: Did you join the See, here's the thing, I was never the type— like, I didn't— you could say yes, but I don't know if it, if it did. I think I know what's right and wrong, and I knew that I'd been— I got in trouble for doing something that was wrong. And so it wasn't like I was like, you know, oh, I thought you could act this way with everybody. It's like, I probably knew it was fucking naughty then. I probably knew it was not okay then, and I'm and I'm pushing the boundaries as a kid, which—

Josh: but you do that nowadays and you'd be kicked out of the school, don't you think?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, probably.

Josh: I remember when I was in grade 3 and, um, someone had told me about pubic hair. And so I was on the playground and I said to a girl, um, have you got pubic hair? And I didn't realize, but well, so this girl had been, um, she'd had some bully bullying her, and the principal said, if anyone says anything to you, come to me straight away. So she went up to the principal, she went up to principal and said, Josh Jansen asked if I had pubic hair. And so I— they basically put me in a lineup, they took me out of class, yeah, took me into her class. She was in grade 4, I was in grade 3, and, um, she pointed me out. I just remember the— her teacher just saying how disgusting I was in front of everyone. Yeah. And then about— I mean Yeah, but it was very traumatic because then I then went into the principal's thing and he's like, we're not sure if we need to get the police involved, this is sexual harassment.

Tommy: Fuck off.

Josh: I was in grade 3 and I just remember thinking that it was going to be on my file. But ever since then I was like, oh, you can't—

Tommy: That's negligent of a fucking school. This is my problem. Like, I feel sick hearing that because I had so much shit like that. Not in that same vein. But I had moments where teachers would try and use their fucking power to scare the shit out of a child.

Josh: I had to write a letter.

Tommy: And it's, it's all right, I get that. Write the letter, get told it's wrong, or don't let the kid go on school camp because he fucking did the wrong thing. And you learn from that. Kids are young, like young children.

Josh: I had no idea what it was. I guess the context was I just had no idea what it was.

Tommy: Exactly, more to the point, to go have some fucking empathy for a child to understand, like Well, the whole set, like, the whole—

Josh: it was mind-blowing because they were talking about all this sexual harassment thing. I didn't even know what this was.

Tommy: Yeah, I'd be curious to know what the consequences these days would be for those kind of things.

Josh: And but you need to fucking protect the students as well. If you've got a sex pest grade 3 kid, you need to make sure—

Tommy: sex pest grade 3 kid? A fucking child who—

Josh: but you could look at the other side.

Tommy: Frontal cortex is not developed and he doesn't actually know anything about anything.

Josh: First time I've said frontal cortex.

Tommy: Yeah, but he's literally— he's just like— I look at my son and I go, fuck, I just think about what if it was your daughter?

Josh: What if you had a daughter?

Tommy: No, I'm not saying I'm not trying to protect my— me as a kid, but I'm also going, but what—

Josh: but what is the right way to approach it then? So if you had a daughter and someone's saying—

Tommy: I don't think— I think what I'm getting at here is the shame that they bring into it. I don't think the shame of bringing you in front of— like, I remember like teachers doing things on a public level. Like, I think it's a lack of understanding of the power that the teachers have. So it sort of worked.

Josh: It felt like then, like, if I was 11 and that bra thing happened, I would have known straight away. I'd be like, fuck, this is like really bad.

Tommy: Yeah, but I wasn't doing anything like that, so I'm not trying to make up for anything I did, but I also just look at the impact teachers have on kids. And if I was a parent of a girl who had that happen, I would be furious.

Josh: And so what is the teacher's meant to do?

Tommy: I think writing a note, not being allowed to go on school camp, but not publicly fucking shaming a child. That's my, that's my problem with it. And what's a 6-piece grade 3, like a kid that doesn't know what he's saying and he doesn't understand the consequences of his actions? Like I did. So maybe, maybe it was beneficial for all that shit to happen to me because I get what's right and wrong and I'd never do shit like that.

Josh: Yeah, I think it was, I think it was good. It was definitely traumatic.

Tommy: I had this one time that I, um, so I lived across the road from my primary school, like, yeah, small suburban street, and just, I used to stand at the fence, 'Mum!' Me and the boys would—

Josh: Did you ever get Maccas delivered? No, I had never kids at school that got that.

Tommy: What, Maccas delivered?

Josh: Yeah. Especially on their birthdays. It was sick.

Tommy: That's bizarre.

Josh: But then you realize, the thing is, it's not until you get older that you realise it's actually like the poorer, like, that's like a common thing because it's cheap.

Tommy: Yeah, well, we used to get Mum to bring over some biscuits and stuff, so she'd hear us and come out. And this one time I forgot—

Josh: Pretty fucking funny.

Tommy: Biscuits, food, sandwiches, whatever.

Josh: Biscuits is funny, like with a biscuit tin. Can you paint the picture of what that looked like?

Tommy: We had the best biscuit tin. And I remember the different types. We had these nice big chocolate-chipped ones that weren't like your flatter, they were like higher, like thicker.

Josh: Yeah, that was good. Yeah, they almost had like a, at the top, like it had a specific shape. Yeah, they were using a mold. Yum, yum.

Tommy: So she used to bring over those, mate.

Josh: So she would bring the tin, she would walk over.

Tommy: I cannot remember, she'd just bring treats, but I don't remember.

Josh: I just, I want to be someone I can't remember though.

Tommy: All I remember anyway, this— the storey here is that I forgot to get something signed, and it was a form to go down to the beach to, um, do something down there with the— with my classmates. And I just remember I did the wrong thing, ran over— ran across the road. So I left the school premises to go and see Mum, and no one saw me do it. Then I came back and I had the form signed. And so I gave the form in on the day, and then the teacher who had it in for me— this is a teacher who, when Conspiracy Jimmy, he was the year above in primary school, when I was in grade 5, he was in grade 6— he's sitting in this classroom, and the teacher looks out the window, and I'm riding through the school on a school day because I didn't go to the school at that point.

Josh: And she points out and says, wait, why didn't you go to the school at that point?

Tommy: I'd left the school to go somewhere else. Okay, but then I ended up coming back. Anyway, she points out and says, see that boy? That's Tommy Jacket. He's no good. And like, I just think that is such a fucking weak, weak, weak thing for an adult. Like, imagine how I must have been rattling these adults, because no fucking child rattles me. I laugh it off and think you're like, you're Bart Simpson. 100%. I was, but I rattled these old people. I just think how fucking fragile these people are. Do you feel bad bullying a young child?

Josh: But did you feel like maybe you were bullying them?

Tommy: Yeah, but I'm a fucking child.

Josh: Yeah, sure, but how are they meant to— I mean, they've got feelings as well. They've got like emotions.

Tommy: Yeah, and they've got life experience. They've got perspective. They've got what they should have. Did you have any kind of emotional intelligence?

Josh: Did you have any teachers that really positively impacted you?

Tommy: 100%. But what did they do? What did they look like? They're not the ones that last. They were the ones that were just kind and understood me more for who I was, who I am, and just nurtured that versus pushed against it based on their insecurity or their personal shit. Like, I think it's a reflection of the teacher because they're an adult if they're treating kids that are misbehaving in this sort of way of bringing them down. And sort of like, you can tell that there's like the step of sort of going, acknowledging that this child is the this way it is, and then reacting based on that with no thought of acknowledgement of how this child is. So they're just reacting emotionally to the, to the way the kid is doing. Anyway, end of the storey is that this teacher, the one that looked out and said that shit about me, she made a point that I wasn't going that day even though I'd had the form signed, and I couldn't go on the excursion.

Josh: And what did you do?

Tommy: I can't remember. I think I just— I think I even went home. I think they did send me home or something like that. But the thing is, this is the hard thing. When kids do the wrong thing, there can be like a witch hunt for the child when they are misbehaving.

Josh: Do you reckon there's a level of, um, because of all this stuff that's happened, if Bodhi is naughty at school, do you think you're going to be a hard parent to deal with to get him to change?

Tommy: To help him change?

Josh: Well, just to be able to not feel triggered and be like, oh, this is a witch hunt.

Tommy: I think the— well, I think the biggest thing is finding a school that is supportive. Like, finding— there are schools, and I, and I know they're out there, there's schools and there's teachers that, that actually support kids like that. Because there are plenty of kids like that. And I know how fucking hard it is. Like, I think about the kids that were similar to me that then fucking went on to kill themselves. It's like they couldn't survive the time around. And I know one person, for instance, one of my best mates, he was— I saw how he was treated at school and I saw how he was at school and it fucking was not right.

Josh: Like, it's like they're out of control and they don't know what to do and feeling alienated.

Tommy: Yeah, it's, it's full-on. I took that pretty dark, but it's, um, I— yeah, I— this is— I Teachers have— it is such a privilege in some ways to be the person that is teaching these young kids that are going to be the, you know, the next generation.

Josh: But they're also people as well. They're people who get paid not that great to do a lot.

Tommy: There's no excuse to fucking treat kids like shit. There's no excuse to— just because you don't make— get a new job. If you— if that's why you treat— and you've got no— like, it's like if you're in a job that you're just giving it no effort because if you had that, if you you had people being little assholes to you. You can't deal with that. That is the job of a teacher.

Josh: Is it the job of the teacher? Is the job of the teacher to be doing all behavioural management stuff versus actually—

Tommy: But then what is the job of a teacher? Reciting information that they've read in a book? But that's not teaching.

Josh: I guess this is the thing, right? Teaching in a lot of ways is about influencing, being able to influence.

Tommy: Personal trainer— I was one— it is not textbook, and it's not just telling you about your fucking biceps, triceps. And you know, it's about your lats as well. It's definitely, it's all about your lats. There's more to it. There's someone who has a successful personal training business is also a people's person. They know how to relate, they know how to connect, they know that the person that's emotionally charged when it comes to, you know, their lifestyle and exercise needs to be nurtured a different way to the person that's fucking, I would just want to train as hard and almost vomit every session.

Josh: But imagine a class is like a boot camp and you've got 25 people with 25 different needs. Yeah, there's one person who's really quiet. Yeah, you've got someone who's really loud and out there. You've got someone who doesn't want to do any work. You've got someone who wants to go to uni, someone who doesn't. How do you serve?

Tommy: I lack empathy based on the lack of empathy teachers had for me. And I get that, I get that they're like, you're already—

Josh: 25 needs, having 25 different kids.

Tommy: It is one of the challenges though. Like, you think— I think about the You think about an old teacher that you had, like an old woman or man that was short and shitty and sharp, like they were just doing it their way, and I don't think that's that productive. Yeah, I think it— there's something that has to change with the, the system.

Josh: But you're critical of that— what they did with you wasn't productive for you. Do you think that their style did work for some students? Did some students flourish in that environment?

Tommy: I don't know. Or they just got by because they towed the line. So that's the hard thing, towing the line, or, you know, because there is a system in place. I've always felt like I was never a good player. I didn't fit into the system of school— do what they say, here's the work, do that, you know. And so I always— and I think you did too, that we're similar in that way of like the way it was structured was not probably ideal for who we are.

Josh: Yeah, I guess so.

Tommy: The good thing is nowadays there are schools that are much more suited for kids that—

Josh: what are they?

Tommy: Uh, Steiner schools. They were around when I was young. More creative schools. Um, but even like some of my best experiences were at a public school, and I came from private where you're paying all this money. What do you think, that you get all this sort of You know, but then you go like, I had some teachers that were just nurturing, but then it's a human thing, right? So then it's, it's actually about individual needs. So maybe for teachers there could be sort of different schooling systems or different schools that offer, you know, say they specialise in more creative stuff or specialise in sporting stuff or specialise in academic stuff, that it sort of then caters to the type of person that will go to that school. So the person that goes to a creative school Are they the primary?

Josh: So yeah, that's why I wonder.

Tommy: And so teachers that will work there are more likely to be aligned with the child because I think it's important to make connection because if you're— all good teachers I think have a connection with the student because then we'll just— if, if that's not a part of the equation, you just get a robot to do it.

Josh: Do you think that there's maybe a lack of opportunity to build empathy if you are, or to be able to have real friction Like, I wonder, because I definitely don't— like, didn't— I liked school with the extracurricular stuff. I had great relationships with my teachers, but the academic stuff I didn't really get into. Is it—

Tommy: Buddy was the best in class at doing maths.

Josh: No, it was just one. It was— that was once that it happened. It blew everyone away.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: But the—

Tommy: find your calling and go after it.

Josh: But is there— do you think that that is sort of that cotton wooling that we're doing of kids where it's like, you know what, you know, this— we're going to create a system that works just for you versus the friction that comes from, you know what, you might not be the type of kid who does well with when time start, like when the school starts, and— but when you have commitments as a kid, when you— oh, sorry, as an adult, when you're growing up, you're going to have to arrive at a certain time. You can't just rock up when you want to.

Tommy: Yeah, so I think that those critical skills, you know, I think what we're talking about is a structure that best suits the child and the teacher that is best suited to that structure and style. Doesn't mean that you take things like responsibility and, you know, time, you know, handing in things on time, because I think they all play out. If you're with— so if you find someone that is sort of super suited to your style, there will still be friction points Yeah, there will still be, um, you know, you won't be able to agree on everything. So I think that it will all play out, but I'm just— I think it's like potentially giving the best chance for the student and for the teacher if they're in environments. And I know that, I get it, that it's an occupation being a teacher, and there's— and they're only a handful of schools, and they're people with their own shit. Yeah, but I just, I just know how I was treated, and it was not fucking right. And it— and it— whether it made me a good person today, I don't know. Maybe it did, maybe that— but I definitely— that's when it— like, you, you love talking about school shit. I'm just like, it's actually— I'm fucking glad that I'm further away from school than I've ever—

Josh: I love being out of it, but I love looking back.

Tommy: Yeah, I didn't— yeah, I didn't have a good time.

Josh: Hi@thedailytalkshow.com is in our email. We got an email from Wayne. We put this up on our Instagram. So good.

Tommy: I'll just show it now. This is fucking amazing.

Josh: This is, uh, Wayne went to the effort of turning our image of us two in front of our LOSCAM wood into a Lego, uh, sort of example. Here we go. So we'll also just go to, uh, the Daily Talk Show on Instagram. You probably can't see it there. Properly, but Wayne has nailed it. He's got the palette in the background.

Tommy: He's even got the blue one, which is just there. Like, he's—

Josh: it's amazing.

Tommy: This is so good, Wayne. Thank you so much, dude. That's so fucking cool.

Josh: It's amazing. Uh, if you want to send us an email, hi@thedailytalkshow.com.

Tommy: If you're a teacher and you think I've got it completely wrong, it's not that I think— I'm not judging every teacher, but I'm judging from my—

Josh: you're a bit triggered.

Tommy: Definitely triggered, as you can tell. But I'd love to hear your thoughts. Maybe it's like, maybe you agree with me and you think something needs to change, or you think I'm totally out of school here.

Josh: Out of school.

Tommy: Yeah, definitely.

Josh: Pun intended.

Tommy: Talking out of school.

Josh: Tomorrow, uh, Naysan Naraki, my old mate, is on. We're starting sort of our own, a new benchmark.

Tommy: I love it. Old mate.

Josh: Where we'll bring an old mate in. Yeah, we can get nostalgic and we can fucking His main claim to fame in regards to the show is that he's my mate. Yeah, that's the benchmark. So he's got a lot to offer, I think.

Tommy: I think he's a commendable guy for being your mate.

Josh: Yeah, he also once ate a whole chocolate cake and a full— and a whole pineapple, so we can talk about that as well. Today, talk show. We'll see you tomorrow, guys.

Tommy: See you guys.