#241 – Dan Debuf’s Retirement Plan/

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Wait a minute, cross face.

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conversation, sometimes worth recording with Josh Janssen and Tommy jacket

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with the daily Talk Show Episode 241. We're in

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the big media company HQ. But Dan to birth

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you guys say that like someone floating in the ocean just like it's just them in a volleyball and they're doing their Captain's log and day 241 alone on this wretched ship

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it actually it's been a good sort of Energizer because it makes you realize fact, we've actually done a few days now and it's kept us going. It's been Yeah, good. sort of been a staple for the show.

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I've done 19 of my podcast and every podcast when I record my little intro, and I go, Wow, 19 it's like how many radio so is it a lot hundred

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19 of these things.

1:00
Many radio shows you've done in your are gone over the years, or for wouldn't thousands? Yeah.

1:05
I mean, I would have done my 10,000 hours. Definitely. You know, that's the that's the main thing, I think.

1:11
I think so you're doing five days a week. I was doing brickie in Shepperton, you were in the city at that time doing the drug shot. And we worked at it was about 200 shows he

1:21
sorry, what you were tracking me?

1:25
tracking myself. 200 shows a year. Roughly actually, you probably got more holidays than us. We got fuck Oh. And it was a great holiday. It was just it spoiled me for life. Like I honestly think the day I get to work get a job in a real get a work. When I find myself working way. Yeah.

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Here for work, please.

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If I were to get a job in a profit company, I just be like, Oh, I'm sorry. No, that's not how things work. Here's your task tonight. No, no, I don't want to do that. Well, that's the job. Oh, no, I that's not for me. How do you explain to overseas people? The Australian context of radio like how the compared to other parts of the world? How do you mean like, well, I find that Australian not like an ambassador. Oh, no, I feel like Australian right. Like when when you were working in radio, and you said to me why? Yeah, work, whether it is a funny one, actually, when I was on holiday in Vietnam, and I was on this tour. And I got to talking with just you know, yeah. You talked to people in your group, just randomly from different countries and you like, what do you do? What do you do now? Like, all you do is it is the Ozzy and and I like what he does, I work in radio. And of course, they go to see that story about that nurse in the UK, because it it just happened. And I said, Yeah, I just signed a contract to work for that company about a week before it happens. What do you remember? What was the vibe? What was the vibe, like in the office? I was working? I wasn't in the office. But there was a sort of collateral damage after that. Like I remember being at Fox at the time in hours and hours and hours at NOVA. Yeah. And then I was, yeah, and then I left Nova. And then I was on, sort of when you have a contract, it'll say you can't work for another company. For three months, you sort of like toxic for three months after that. And then you're allowed to work for another company. So when I'll stereo, when I got like, I guess you'd say headhunted or whatever from all stereotypes from Nova to stereo. I couldn't start work until the end of March. So I had to spend they had they'd sign me from the first January but I couldn't work until the end of March. So I spent three months not being able to do anything but getting paid. Yeah, that's it's fantastic. I recommend it.

3:50
Be a good friend shark toxic for three months could be the title.

3:55
Radioactive man.

3:57
When you came in

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more, by then it was it had been sort of months and it was just such a completely different like no one on our show, heading into it that and we just sort of we were like fresh I guess everyone was like, no prank calls. I right. No, yeah, that was such a relief. Because I hated doing prank calls. Yeah, first of all, I hated the pressure because it was like, I've got a call up someone and trick them to doing it. I'd rather just talk to someone. And secondly, just I don't know if people know this, but at least this was my experience is it wouldn't always work the first time you try a prank idea and it wouldn't work and I have to try it again and again and just be doing the same routine over and over again to try and see if it could eventually trick someone. What sort

4:52
of pranks Do you remember doing?

4:56
We had some pretty good ones when it was main, Matt Serra Saini are doing a show called the action battle team and we had this late night

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show anything. flies like that. Yeah.

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And again, this was in Perth. It was a bit off Broadway, and it was pre royal prank. So it was just like, anything goes. And we did this one where

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we got nominated for an accurate for so don't feel too bad about it. But it was.

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There was we had a word that the person on the other line, they didn't know obviously, but they had to say it.

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I mean, they said it, you would orgasm.

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And you obviously had try and get them to say this word, and then you would just break out into orgasm. But up until then, what you would do is if they said are more Are you just had to do a sexual mine. So like we the one that worked really well was we ran a cinema and we had to get them to say the word words five stars show. If I said that full orgasm until then any um, you just got Oh.

6:12
And it just quiet. So they couldn't quite hear it. And they'd be like, dude, Hey, no. And then they're in work mode. So they're trying to sort of

6:21
Yeah, they're trying to get on with it seemed like, have you gotten any good movies on tonight?

6:27
Just let me have a look like, and what would you say? How would you write that movie? Oh, it's pretty good. And you'd like but you can't say five stars.

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What were you writing a review? What would you say in that sort of stuff? That was quite fun. Actually.

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I like that because it's not too nasty. It's not.

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But I still felt a bit bad about it. Because you know, mountains on the other line is, you know, just doing it and I don't know that they're going to be lampoon lampooned on hurts third highest writing, not

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shy. Yeah.

7:00
You never would have known that. Something like that, like that.

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How many prank calls went down in the world? And then that the Royal prank, just getting through to a room in a hospital getting transferred through would cause what it did? Well, it started off as a celebration. I remember when, when it first happened. As in when the prank call happened, there was a gap between when the prank call happened. And when the nurse committed. Yeah.

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And I and I mean, obviously, it's just,

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again, no one would have ever predicted it. And it was also like the first kind of

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was made referring to nice throughout the whole time. So what do you write this?

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guy get it done.

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But it's,

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it was the first.

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You know, the sort of internet outrage culture that we all live in where everything is that that's 100% wrong. I don't mean obviously it an awful thing. No one's going to go, Oh, that was a fun thing. Like it was one of the most awful things that could ever, ever happened to anyone in the course of their day to day work. You know, for that to happen. Because of you just trying to do a good job is absolutely just unfathomable. And I can't even I can't even imagine how I would have felt going through that. But it was the first, at least for me, the first moment where I realized that things can just get really horrible really quickly on the internet. I think of that Jon Ronson book. So you've been publicly shamed when, and the woman who wrote that, again, that awful tweet about, you know, going Africa, I hope I don't get AIDS or whatever. And then got off the plane to find out she was the biggest villain in the world.

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No one died from that. Yeah, you know, I say, it's, it is just this thing where because people forget right there until

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the revelation that she taken her own life. Prince Charles was making jokes about it. Do you remember there was like someone came up to interview and he goes, Oh, you're not a bit of an Australian radio host. I do like that. And it's like, you know, the Conan and staff are doing bits about it. It was just saying as a funny thing. Now, we could also say like, Oh, dear, like we're all having a good laugh about someone prank calling someone in hospital with a slightly so quite serious condition like. And obviously, the palace sort of played it down like, Oh, it's just a bit of she's a bit under the weather, stiff upper lip. But apparently, I don't know much about pregnancy or stuff, that sort of stuff, but apparently was quite a serious condition in hindsight. But even

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then, like,

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at the time, everyone was sort of like, Yeah, whatever. And then yeah, the second that went horribly wrong. It was

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oh, well, I would never,

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I wouldn't never do that. Anyway, does it is awful. And it's like, you know, as with most things a little bit, nuance kind of helps. And the truth probably lost somewhere in the middle. And yeah, I think it's kind of a good thing that since then, I never really had to take advantage of someone over a fine line in that way. But I mean, he listened back to, you know, Matt, till these gotcha calls, or I actually tell you what, this is one thing, right is it's very easy in this modern day and age to forget, yeah, I'm what things were like 1020 years ago, and I have this little thing that always says I'm like, Well, every comedian over the age of 40 as a blackface sketch somewhere in their history. Yeah. Well, Sarah Silverman talks about that, like that. And the idea that these things get brought up from the past. Yeah, in a new context. Yeah, we hold everyone to the standard that woke city dwelling, you know, millennial, Drake,

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black guy, who did black fight yet

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familiar with Dragon. Josh.

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Did you say Jake?

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Drake, also Francis Drake, yes.

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Yes, he did ad blackface years ago. And he wasn't He's an actor. And he did it to highlight the, you know, the issues that were there. But he's a black guy, and he got crucified for it. People used it as sort of sort of bait to go, me and my friend were thinking of writing a

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parody of 90s sketch comedy.

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So just super racist.

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Well, so what we did was we thought for research, we'll go back and watch the best of full frontal. Yeah, on YouTube. And watch it for 10 minutes, and then I was like, oh, yep, there's Sean McAuliffe doing his blackface sketch. Now Sean McAuliffe, right. Like, workers to death.

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Pit go back. 20 years. And there he is. Yeah, he's pretend to be Eddie Murphy or something. Yeah. Well, should we lock him up?

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Geez, do you actually get comfort from from that?

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Anytime you do something wrong. It's like yeah, at least I wasn't showing McCallum doing it like

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I never said the phrase at least.

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I've said the opposite.

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So what is the you know, with everything that's happening say with the even the the moaning sketch sort of that you know, that the calling out the prank call? Do you think I feel like it's a very common phrase now? It's like, Oh, I couldn't do that. Now. Do you push back on that? couldn't do it. Now. Do you think that we should embrace be embracing all of it is there What does that middle ground? I mean, I'm not some sort of edge Lord saying like PCs gone to far and why can I do x or whatever.

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But we will be. I think if you judging the past on future standards, you're setting yourself up for real horrible future.

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Because we will be judged in 1020 years time. And who knows what we do now? I mean, I could like there's so many things like in 15 years time 20 years time, my kids could be listening to this going oh my god, I can't believe I can't believe dad that you just did a podcast and it was just three want to

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go to private school with that accent?

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Damn straight.

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Well, you can't say you have faith in a system and you're sending your kids to private school. Now it's a sidebar. Stein up many things like there's so many things right now. We're talking earlier while we're having coffee about eating meat and the sort of ethics around that in 20 years time are our kids going to look at us and be like, I can't

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believe I can't believe or like you know if you're a parent now and you've got a kid and you're fading them made in 30 years time Are they going to go Why did you put that in my body? Why did you put that awful substance that was I mean God ruining the planet

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yeah

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another one is like

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even think further like Are these the next generation gonna look at us and go oh my god, you thought there was such a thing as privacy That's so lame. Yeah, privacy. Oh yes. It

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looks like yeah

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well I mean all the government can see my entire medical record but that's just not cold life

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not conspiracy Jimmy's though. Yeah.

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This is well trodden ground.

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Now we did meet conspiracy, Jimmy. He's opted out of that hills. Why is that one of you in a funny hat?

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He actually he's in there.

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Bloody conspiracy Jimmy's here.

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Freemasons control the way I

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did a episode about and some. Yeah, you,

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you a conspiracy guy.

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I I'm one of those people who this is so bad for breakfast radio, but I get really nervous about having strong opinions on things because I'm always open to change. And I'm always really interested in alternative arguments. And I would love to just get to the end of my life and go

15:48
Can't wait to you know.

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Find out what the answers were right. Yeah. Yeah,

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you feel like you would push into a breakfast radio. You kind of you have the yin and yang of the duo and you kind of need to come with

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that time as an hour. Really good at that. And and because I remember people are always like, remember when we first started doing Sydney breakfast, and people would do these interviews with man mares and they like to mass or do you have to try and shut him up sometimes as he follows like Carl Sandilands, or something. Yeah, well, that are all you can't say that, Dan. Oh, that kind of thing. And I was like, mesmerized by be like, what are you asking that for? Yeah, like, we just get on air and beat us. And there were so many times when we genuinely were 100% opposite on things which are gray. Right? Because you can just just fascinate and bewilder the other person with your incredibly strongly held opinion. But there are other times where you could just sense that there was a ball, sir, produce a bang, like, couldn't you just have have the opposite opinion? Couldn't you just and that's like, I mean, I remember way back way back. I'm talking the first year I started broadcasting and there was a Halloween.

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So 2022

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and are we doing this nightclub event? And this kid is a kid how to keep being a night he was also 22. Now it was a listener event, then maybe wasn't it? Maybe was just at a nightclub was a listener event? Because I remember, maybe it's guys like 1718 I can't remember a good anecdote, Dan.

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It's got to be able to fact check it so

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true. All right. So I'm talking to Charles Barkley. And he says, Dan, you're the coolest guy. So he comes up to me goes on to your mom like the CD. That's what was it like an OB?

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CD? Sorry, what? Did your mom like the say day?

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I know I have no idea. Return on man. You guys. You played this song by like Michael Boulay and then afterwards you were like, I'm gonna get my mom that CD for Christmas. Did you like the CD? And of course what I've done is you know, he want to try and back selling music with a bit of a fun sort of jacobin like, go get that one as a stocking stuffer? Have a mama? Yup. Yup. News. Like, obviously, this wonderful fan of the show had latched on to any bit of information I could find about the you know, this radio host that they love listening to. I remember the same thing watching Channel vape and saying like, Jimmy Stein's Andrew J. James Matheson, they always never radio sort of I love radio kind of person. But those were my equivalent, right?

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Did you watch band in the bubble to remember that? Yeah. That was great. Jabba

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just went off the deep end because he was locked in Federation Square for tighter or something. Sorry about that. But um, yeah, it's just like, from that moment. I just went. I can't I can't lie. Because I can't handle people going out there. And what if Hades said to his friends Oh, yeah damn damn bodies Mama. Boo place a day and that's not true. That's not true. So did

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you tell the CJ tell him Do you remember your response was I brushed it off?

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I couldn't I couldn't write the guy's heart You know? I mean, this guy's built his life around the fact that Dan bought his mama boo boo I said I can't I can't tear down the castle that he's built in his mind to make 2018 and summer Gods is the year of the personal brand everyone has a personal goal in

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2010 was the year the first Oh Brad was living in Sydney 2010 it was lot the center of the media marketing will but

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and now it's like pink dry like my mom has a personal brand out like she would say she would tell my dad hi when you go to the Qantas lounge make sure you check in that sort of shit

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yeah. Wine time. What is the iPhone?

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What's your view on personal brand? How did you navigate it within radio land? What do you think about like how did you approach this is who I am this kind of lucky right? Um I had a good string of bosses who was super Dan fans though a lot the more you are you the better the show a bit and I say the same thing that matters as well The more you are you the better the show will be and you understood who you were Did you ever question like is this something I do like if there's always a gripe or a nectarine now

20:39
if I put into to enjoy the conversation we had off

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gas we can do

20:46
idiots you would never know how cool conversations I just this lame one that we different broadcast

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you are in the situations where it's like you have to go and interview the celebrities or people that you might actually not be that connected with and I guess it's a good moment someone out there is

21:08
yeah there's always the most interesting part is Yeah, you might hide an honest but at least one person out there that's their favorite artist

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and so what is then the filters are you looking at? Did you have this is what did you ever write on a piece of paper? This is who I am this is I do

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that every goddamn day just to just to get through life?

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What did that look like? What is it actually what I didn't learn for that

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it's very scary

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when you come from more of a sort of comedy kind of world and you're sort of staring down the barrel of a company like an overall stereo owning your soul in a way because you are trading on your personality right you're basically saying me as a human being is worth your time. So if then like you then you a bad person and all that sort of stuff kind of and especially when you do grow up more in a sort of channel the Triple J big day out kind of vibe and then it's like how good is a pink concert you go really and you know you're 21 and that sort of stuff is still super important to you can't distance yourself from work and everything super important. And I remember that whole vibe I used to have like I was still kind of do have long hair but I just have like proper like no fielding Mighty Boosh. Like long hair slight spiky on the top. It was it was 2006 dear listener like

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yeah, I

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don't know if people were still doing that. And it was that it's 2016 boosh. Yeah. Okay, yeah, money versus 2000

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but um, yeah, like I'm talking about like Tommy Lee from Motley Crue like law I don't know any references by the way green one put it in your mouth.

22:56
What about I saw quite the Queen film the other day wasn't

23:00
it wasn't like Brian my okay. You don't know that. Now I don't watch it. What's that? Yeah,

23:05
what's the line from there on the boat? And it's it's wacky comedy.

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The only thing when I think of Mighty Boosh, I think of his little Britain in any way connected. It's all super tangential at around about the same time making British comedy pretty happy with that then British comedy so they're both British comedy. That's amazing. When is that a pass my

23:25
good luck. I actually know one Little Britain scene which is going to get a glass of water a little break everyone. Forever. Oh, shit. Someone must be doing well.

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So I had this head.

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Essentially, I remember someone said to me, never will make you cut your hair. Never will make you cut your hair. And I remember being like, well, I'll never cut my hair. That's my Sampson like hair. I will never cut my hair. Just stuff like that.

23:56
Did you get you? Did I make UK

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event Chile? I ended up with far shorter hair. Yeah. And now look back on those photos. And I'm like, this is Dr. Breakfast kind of thing. I go and want to get my hair cut. Sorry short. But you know, Stockholm syndrome that do you just sort of a sudden start like, by the end of it you like pink more at the end than you did at the start?

24:23
Hard to tell where you'd met her probably interviewed her bunch of times. Oh, yeah. Bloody hell, she wouldn't stop calling us. Yeah,

24:31
she was in the country.

24:34
Get up Get your pace.

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I think it's really easy to be like, are you become such a sellout? When you do commercial media, that sort of stuff. I'm like, come on, man. Like what does every office in the country, at least before Spotify? I don't know what it's like now. But like, every office, they just turn the radio on and just have that playing in the background and on work sites. And, you know, like, also I turned 30 like you could be different 21 and 30 like sometimes you just grow up? Yeah. And you've just become a bit more normal because you don't want to you know, live in a share house your whole life. So it's very easy to be like, Oh, you sell that when you do commercial radio, but also like, people change Yeah, hairstyles change. So how does that attach the personal brand stuff do you think like how does? I think

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I think I was as I said, I was really lucky to have a hope you reading this?

25:28
We make one podcast a day. We cannot it's

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only 70 hours.

25:34
I was really lucky to have bosses and I'm talking about people like Iran him. Sam Cavanagh Craig Bruce, who are just like, whatever you do is great. Just do what ever you do. And to man's do what ever you do. If anything, be more like you. That's what I'm trying to uncover, I guess is to me, that feels like a lot of pressure. someone saying to me be more like you. I think I would have a bit of a crisis moment where it's like, well, what am I like it because it's when you just you and you just like day to day it's like, I'm

26:05
just saying compare yourself lyst. So don't look to don't try and be who you think we

26:11
were starts out creatively by copying like my first say 20 radio demos or like midnight to Dawn's or whatever. I probably sounded like 50% Hamish Blake 50%. No fielding or Russell Brand, bro. Yeah, I'd say hi, Miss Blake, Russell Brand artist. They're both their podcasts every day and just be like, That, to me is good broadcasting. It's similar to my vibe and art. I remember one of my mates who was living overseas. And he messaged me one day and he was like, Hey, I just randomly dipped into your podcast to see how you're going. He's like, you sound great. And you sound like you. Like any actually said to me as I used to sometimes think Oh, that sounds a little Russell Brand. Hi, Michelle, whatever. And he'd be like, you sound like you and I was like, made it we made it externally verified made it is that just like the constant doing it? Like I listened to our older episodes. And I think that there's definitely a comfortability or whatever the word is,

27:18
what start writing what have you given those

27:21
rights to us? But

27:27
I said I'm again. Yeah.

27:29
So I I do I do wonder about the because you're changing like you over a course of a career. You change a bunch of times. Yeah, that and that pressure, I'm not doing

27:39
those old black faces

27:40
anymore. And so is that much of an internal, like, what was the struggle with, especially being in a Joe and understanding like Tommy and I feel like we're having these conversations all the time where we had one in the last week, or it was like, we've been doing all this work on what video is we wanted to make it and we realized what we were trying to do is be more like each other. I was trying to get him up to speed with the stuff that I'm strong. And he was trying to get me up to speed what he's strong on. I mean, that's really important, though. Yeah, that is called Learning. Like that's like, I reckon. I mean, I have been when I started working in TV, with a bang, need last year got it feels longer than that. But anyway, when I first started doing stuff for Channel 10, and I just sent me a message and I was just like, Oh, my God, You taught me so much. Because Yeah, when I must have started out with Matt, as in 2010, I was so green and I was probably pretty arrogant. I mean, because you know, you are you massive been traveling the world with MTV, and it kind of, you know, felt that was wrapping up and becoming a bit less. Yeah, MTV became a little less about music and a bit more about jackass. So she was a bit like, kind of want to get out of there. And then she was like, well, I'll get back to radio. But of course, you can't just start at the top. And she got teamed up with me and Matt, who are just these 221 year olds from Perth. Not a bit on that, but still not young. And I reckon in hindsight, she would have put up with so much of just me being like, Nope, that's not how comedy works, or whatever. Right. You know, I was never rude to her. But I probably would have been a bit like, I've been doing improv and comedy for a decade, decade, but seven years. And I just, I think she really would have had to do a lot of artists let these two guys just sort of work themselves out. And she would help like, here's how, here's how the industry works and all this sort of stuff. But I feel like after however longer on air together for eight years, or whatever

30:04
she was so blisteringly funny, so unbelievably funny.

30:13
And I think we both sort of met in the middle. Because by the end of that 10 years, yeah, like, I knew how commercial media work. I knew how to talk to clients. I knew, like how to handle like, today, this is your producer today, this is your producer, all the ads took all my struggles. I mean, that's just how the business works. Whereas if that had happened 10 years ago, would have been like, was it my dream? 100% perfect. So we kind of you learn from each other, and you get those best things from each other? And yeah,

30:43
I mean, if she'd been paired up with,

30:47
you know, like a proper presenter, you know, like a shiny floor will see you out to the ads kind of person. I don't think she would have. I'm not going to say I taught us how to be funny cuz she's bloody hilarious since day. Yeah, but we just rubbed off on each other. And she has to that more. Yeah, that's

31:06
Yeah, well, I think the realization from these, Josh and I thinking maybe we should have be the same or sort of find this. So we come from my background, Josh background meet in the middle with both of ours and then do this thing together. The realization was that it makes you double down on both of your own strengths. And then it's like, I kind of know, my style and what I do, and then you start defining that for you. I think it's just like a, it's the journey of a Jew. Oh,

31:35
well, there's this thing of like, let's say, you know, like SWOT analysis, where it's like strengths and weaknesses, that if you look at your strengths and your weaknesses, right, your strengths in the next 10 years are going to go ballistic. So my strengths when I was you know, in my early 20s, were like, yeah, you know, my hair. Look at it now. Rob. Finally got Yeah.

32:03
Guys, things like

32:06
improvise ation, or, you know, quick thinking or whatever. That was kind of what I was really good at was I'm not so good at I don't know, let's say, event structure. Do you find that if someone who's good at improvise ation? Do you then have insecurities about being able to do the raids? Or have it make sure that you know, because improvisation is all about structure? Yeah, you just don't want it to look that way. That's fine. My hair, it looks messy, but I've messed it up just the perfect way. Um, but yeah, so like, your strengths are going to go ballistic. But the things that let's say you're at about 80%, you're at about 80% skill level, in 10 years, you'll be at like 190% more than double, right? Because you've just practiced it so much was so much better than the vast majority of people, your weaknesses, let's say, let's say organization or something like that. If I'm at like, 30% organization, like I'm forgetting to reply to emails and stuff, you'll get to 60% in 10 years. Yeah. So look at that disparity, right. It was like at 30. Now, it's like 260. But the thing is you better than half the population now at the stuff you want, even if you aren't even good at Yeah, right. So that's the kind of thing is like, yeah, sure, you'll never be like, let's say, to really simplify it. One he's funny, when he's business, show the business gonna be as funny as the funny guy in the business guy. Never be the funny guy whose business is the business guy, right. But if you keep rubbing off on each other, and you keep like, locate polishing your weaknesses, you will be better than most people at the things you're bad at. Just because that's how it works is you find it, I find that being in a partnership can sometimes uncover the insecurities and me in that the my partner being really good at one thing, or being able to do one and me feeling like well, I should be able well, as well. I'm because you say someone based so good at something, you and you're not. You're like, well, there's, there's there's my problem, that'll be my undoing. Yeah, that's what will get me in the end. Yeah, I can't post by on my skills, wherever, because my weakness will drag me down. That whole thing of like, it's like a bias towards the negative. You can get 1000 comments saying this is such a funny video and the one going, he is why this is bad and be focused on that's the one comment you read. And you remember for SEO life. Yeah. And that sucks, Bob. I mean, at the end of the day, you could flip it and say, isn't it great that I managed to find someone to work with? who fills that gap? So you kind of fit together? Like the two L shaped Tetris pieces? Yeah,

34:46
do you do you find? Do you naturally lean towards positive or negative?

34:52
Or I try to, especially as I grow older? Yeah, probably when I was, you know, in my early 20s, I was a lot like, I suffer for my art. Whereas now I kind of go, it's pretty good. Things are pretty good. Like that. Like, the things aren't perfect. And yeah, I can see where things will improve. But it's not bad. My you know, I get to have a podcast and I own a Lego pirate ship. You know,

35:22
it's pretty cool. Do you compare yourself

35:24
to other people? Um,

35:28
again, I probably try not to, because I think if

35:33
you've got

35:33
to have a sense of where you are. Like, I don't know, if I compare myself so much to other people. But I compare myself to what I like my potential, like, what I wish I was doing, or where I wish I was, or you play that game of like, if everything from now on for the next five years goes absolutely perfect. Where could I be? If every opportunity goes up exponentially? You know, if I if I put a podcast out, and it becomes the best podcast in Australia, or I might have a meeting with that person, and they give you a job. Like, if all that if everything goes 100% perfect. What could I be capable of? So I sort of that's kind of what I compare myself. And then sometimes you'll say someone else already doing it. Yeah. And you'll go you kind of have that. So again, positivity and negativity. Half of me will go dammit, they stole my dream. Yeah. And the other half will go. My dream was on the right track. Yeah. Like, I had a weird thought that maybe someone like me could do something like that. And they that person proves that I'm not delusional. Yeah.

36:50
Extreme Ownership of your situation. If you're looking to somewhere else in there, somewhere where you think you want to be, but then you look at your own life and go, this is where I've got myself too. And so the only way forward, what's it like think you have everything you need to get to where you're

37:07
going to go? Yeah, right. So I always think, like, one thing I always say to my girlfriend is that one day, we're both going to be in our 60s, just sitting on a porch and I'm going to turn to you I'm gonna say told you say Joe Joe and she'll go Yay, All right, I'll go Yeah, I said it I said one day, it would all work out and we'd be fine. And look, how good is this? And that's like, I don't know what the journey is gonna be like in between there but I can't why I think I might just set a date for like set a reminder. Sonia told you saw and it's Look at her and it's a lot told you so

37:46
yeah, it is pretty good. But that's what I recommend.

37:48
The as the mindset of living now as if it's gonna work out really really well. The decisions you make the choices you make,

37:57
yes, I play football I indoor soccer and wherever

38:02
you still can be now my uncle owns indoor.

38:06
He's got the one that Albert Park Brunswick Sierra so you might play one of these

38:11
not right it's in school gyms. Ah, but yeah, in school gyms. Over there and over there. Calvin north and Fitzroy. Um, I remember I was watching Game because I slept to watch games after I play. Just because I like to watch games. And I remember the goalie from one of the really good teams said something and he was like one of these plans was like just assume I'm gonna make the Save because evasion from the football court Yeah, right so as in because the bullet come down Tony always playing

38:47
Yeah, playing it like cow.

38:51
But he's a big guy

38:54
to cover the whole field.

39:00
Huge he puts coals down so he's

39:05
try scoring now. So the obviously do the defender and come back to stand in the goal, because the goalie had gone out to make the Save. And then the goalie then had no one to

39:19
throw to

39:20
because the defendant was now further behind the plan. They had to run it I was like, Man, I'm gonna make this I just get out there and white for the goal opportunity. So that's something I've always Why suddenly happen a few weeks ago, but I've just been toying with my head his idea of just assume I'm gonna make the side. Yeah. Like, why plan? I'm you guys on the show. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

39:40
I've seen a couple of episodes. Yeah,

39:42
cool. So

39:44
Charlie, the guns and I was Charlie in real life as well. He I saw him say this thing where he's like, I've never wanted to have a plan Bay because it'll muddy out my plan. I'm an is that thing of like, Look, I i've, I'm 33 like I I've done all right. And I've got a worst case scenario, my head, right. Like, and I'm talking like, it's even better than moving in with mom. Like, it's not even that bad. You know what I mean? So it's like, like, why not? Why not just go out there and make that side? Like, why not just give it a go and make a really smart risk. I don't know what someone said to me, though. Like, I was at law school. And I was doing these demos for radio. And I was like, you know, want to think I'm gonna bloody do radio. I think I'm gonna, like, I've still got two years left of law, but I can do radio at night. I had a law during the day, I think I can do it. And someone's like, is a risky, is it? It's risky, isn't it? It's risky. And I was like, I'll be honest, I think looking at my life right now. I think sticking with law is a bigger risk. Like I look at how my brain works the same like I was lecture This is quite funny, actually. But I was literally being investigated at uni for academic collusion because one of my essays was really similar to my mates essay. And just so you know, I didn't get found guilty it was just

41:17
doesn't mean that actually guilty just didn't get found.

41:21
Well, can you tell that I was a last year

41:26
I feel like he didn't even do it. Yeah.

41:29
Thank you, you're on an

41:31
investigation. Exactly. Not guilty. never found guilty. But

41:40
at the exact same time, I was literally sitting in this like top story like a boardroom in front of like five academics from the University of Melbourne sort of staring at me across the table being like justify why there are these similarities in these papers.

41:53
Like the same

41:54
day I got a phone call from Nova saying we'd love to have you as the late night radio host on Thursdays from midnight till two I am

42:02
and I was just like, you know, you chase the

42:05
hate you don't you? And it was so obvious that there was just this some

42:12
message from the universe. I sound like mass now. But listen, otherwise has rubbed off on me. I'm just these messages of the universe going down. You're so much better suited to like sitting in a chair and saying what pops into your head? Then you are to sitting in an office like basically looking at documents all day. Like and

42:36
so what popped into your head What did you say to them?

42:39
Fuck you

42:40
know I started with I finished a degree I

42:42
did you Yeah. Law degree

42:44
full law degree full on fire.

42:46
That's more than that's more than a high school. So I love how he Yeah,

42:50
your degree and then I go to English Cultural Studies degree. Yeah. And let you show me a poem and I can analyze the shit out of that poem. Yeah,

42:58
actually, I've got that a poem a poem

43:03
that he's written now

43:03
that it is for delightful

43:07
in my in crime, I don't know if I've gotten rid of it. But there's I had for I think I may have but for weeks and weeks and weeks. Yeah, I literally I did. There was a any poems that I had written down a name of a poem that I wanted to read. Anyway, that's how it's

43:24
called Santa is coming for Christmas. If you want a good book on poetry, yeah,

43:30
can you please recommend one It's cold.

43:35
Something like how to read poems and four fold in love with poetry something like that. Okay. How to fallen Edward Hirsch in spots who it's by and just destroy Yeah, okay.

43:47
So how important was it to because at that point, I think I could speak for Josh and myself we would have gone fact you all I'm in here I'm not finishing this up pretend I'm

43:58
not that kind of person. Like I said before I'm not like a big opinions per so what did you say? Do you remember when they ladies please please don't expel me please, please, please, please. The only reason is so similar is because we both went to law DWI. And we're doing one year in Melbourne. So we were lying on the same case law. Like it was just hell suspicious. Because Yeah, we literally cited I don't know how much you know about law school essays. I know a lot of mine were mine were exceptional. But I'm the basically everything you say you've got an into a footnote saying what case or legislation backs it up, or which thing of the Mighty Boosh? That's right. Yeah, exactly. Your soup soup, super tasty soup. So we cannot accept this. Um, so me and Matt, who housemates and also doing radio together, had hand in these papers that we've written separately, and have the whole because we're from Perth, we've done four years at Perth and now we're doing one year at Melbourne law school. And out of the whole cohort who'd all submitted these papers are two were like completely different to what everyone else had written. They had all these Wi Fi cases. Yeah. Because that's what we've been taught and even the way that we structured it was like I different everyone else ma complete the same. Why is it a little bit like Texas, isn't it by people who are from wi wouldn't know, it's all up now be? So you have but there's like, there's that phrase? It's like why celebrities like these personalities? Yeah,

45:31
I've just I've just written a musical all about wi and personalities. Where is it good when

45:40
I saw him working on this year? Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so I was like, This is what I know, it looks similar. But I cannot stress you enough. We wrote them independently. But obviously, they're going to be the same like that. So um, did you ever have a conversation with this person on like, live with Him and do a radio show with him? No, you're on a Fatah? It was just like, had this massive moment where I was just like, yeah, at the time, I was like, I know exactly what I do. But I'm not gonna be like, Fuck you. I don't want a degree. I was just like, I think I can have both. And I did. That's cool. So say, what's the Tim Ferriss has this question that he asks. And he always adds a bunch of context to it like he normally does, but I'll just ask it straight. What's one thing that you believed a year ago to be true that you don't believe to be true tonight? that's a that's a good bamboos. La. I'm a year ago was quite convenient doing this in December, because like, it's really easy to think. January. I'm

46:56
I've got one. It's not about you. Got one for Dan. White. You know what I believed in January. Yeah. But well, don't tell him

47:03
to not go on.

47:07
It's from when we caught up. I kind of had that conversation with your girlfriend about the musical. And there was that time, the ages ago. I think it was around what you've written what you've now done. Yeah,

47:19
actually, well, if you just fucking take what Tommy said, that was actually

47:24
my mic was thinking, permit me permit me

47:27
question to stump someone with

47:30
literally like the I feel like I'm on the board of the University of Melbourne or whatever. I feel like

47:35
I'm watching mom and dad.

47:38
You guys, there was no,

47:40
there was no collusion. Here it was I came up with my own independent thought I was acting can't tell what was in my mind.

47:48
Isn't this convenient? That's exactly what I was thinking

47:51
that I have really learned this year. Is that the confidence? Yeah, yeah,

47:55
you can you can bullshit your way. Anything.

48:00
Barry's like, it's very easy to think of why things won't work. Right. And I do that a lot. That's a very law school thing. Because if you imagine that you go see a lawyer, what do you want to hear from them? Or you'll be fine or Okay, here's all the problems. So let's address them. That's why lawyers always want you to tease me they're gonna catch

48:21
you. Yeah, correct,

48:22
Mr. JOHN, so that the critical the critical thinking sort of, well, I worst case scenario, like what could go wrong?

48:29
Well, I spent a long time not putting out a podcast, right? I had the idea for my podcast in September last year. I didn't release into August this year. And I was thinking of every reason why shouldn't every reason. And again, like what we said before, or I said before about straight white dudes hosting podcasts. Like, that was one of my thoughts. I genuinely went, well. Why do we need another podcast with a straight white dude hosting it? And I was like, Oh, well, if that's the case, then I should just never do anything ever again. Right. And also, I make myself sad. I promised myself that the first 10 guests wouldn't be straight white dudes. But as the same it was the same with the musical, because I it was, it was my girlfriend's idea. And she's the producer. And she has always been obsessed with this guy, Tony Giladi, this personality guy who it's about right.

49:23
And is he like on the news? Is he an anchor? What does he do what he's

49:27
made? He's a potato farmer, grocery entrepreneur. He's absolutely phenomenal. And he took on the corporate fat cats anyone? It's not the castle mates the dog boy mates Hamilton?

49:40
Is Frank Walker from national tiles. Is he a national hero, or just

49:45
because I'm in when I moved over here to do radio, and everyone was like how our national tiles I want to talk about Tony Gulati place. Yeah,

49:55
and I remember, I came up with 1000 reasons why would work thousand raises from all we don't have enough time to I've never I can't sing or do music. Even three, like no one's gonna want to work with a boyfriend, girlfriend, creative partnership, because they'll be too nervous to sign on. And, I mean, we all know how the story ends. I'm putting a show on the fringe next year. My first ever musical, right from go to war, right? The whole thing? And it's just like,

50:24
these thousands of reasons why could go?

50:29
He's his one spot. Yeah.

50:30
When he's a raising good enough.

50:33
I think you know, I always have this thing that I always tell myself. That is, if you're going to do it, and you're going to do it. So like I can, there are definitely things. My poor tax return is one of them where I haven't done it. Yeah. And it's, I don't beat myself up about it. Like the podcast. Like, as I said, it took me a year, but I did it. But for a while there. I didn't. And I think it's because it just wasn't the moment. It just wasn't right. Sometimes they need a shove

51:02
we're talking about. So I've done a few videos, there was one that did well, this year for me. And I had the idea a year ago. And I sat on it. And I feel like in hindsight, the waiting, and the sort of entering and Do I have enough was actually what got it to where it was. And then it was in a bit viral. And it was on the project. And as I see a coffee quest, yeah, yeah,

51:28
the coffee, you know, sort of good.

51:29
So it's like, if I actually held if I did it ages ago would have had the success that it actually did. And so you start fucking in the story, right? And no one knows the answer, because we didn't have a crystal ball. And but your point was, what was your point? Because we were discussing about when you actually listen to that

51:48
inner voice? Well, I was just I was thinking, when Tommy was saying I needed to sit on it. Yeah, I was saying like, it's just that's a convenient story. For the time that you did like it. You call it marinated? marinating. So it's like, you kinda you know what you've got? Yeah. And then you kind of go cool. I'm gonna work on three other things while that just stews away. And I think as long as you've always got something marinating to it, like I've got about maybe three to five ideas right now that are super loose, like some of them are sentence. Some of them are a text document. And I'd say that says five of them for them will never say a lot of day and one of them perhaps, I don't know which but they're all just sort of floating loosely around for when I have free time. Not post musical or whatever, right? Yeah, there's nothing wrong in just letting that old just funk around in your head. And maybe one day Yeah, you'll just go

52:47
all

52:48
Oh, yeah.

52:50
You say to someone else, right. Like you'll catch up with someone else. And you'll say it now go on. Here's how you could do that. And you go, Oh, really? Yes, I'm thinking alive. Like the daily talk show was a bunch of like me thinking about podcasting for like 12 years of cotton doing bits and pieces. And it didn't feel like this felt like the first proper attempt at giving it a go.

53:14
But what I do know is that it doesn't have to feel good. So that old like video I did. That was last year that went well. I did not want to make that on the day. I made it.

53:26
I felt a bit. I love that. I love that so much when you hate something. Yeah, felt a bit shit. I was like, yeah,

53:31
I'm tired.

53:34
myself by that is that. That's how everyone feels when they're doing their job every single day. You're not special. Yeah, sometimes you have bad days of the office, just

53:40
do it. I know. That's the thing. But then when it's a creative that totally relies on initiative, there's no one to go and do it. Oh, honey.

53:48
Oh, that's 100% true. That's why I do the podcast, everyone's that comes out. Because otherwise I just be like, yeah, I think there's the paradox to when you are not special at all, and you aren't really special. Like the thing that I've been thinking about lately is 100 reasons why I shouldn't do something. And it's always pointing to all these examples of people saying, look, this person did this, you know, like, there's all these advice, all advisor and you've got a nice, you got to do this, you got to do that if you're not doing these things, and it's not going to work. But then I've also been thinking about like, what if you are the exception, like if you want to create something that's awesome, and you believe in it, like, so that's what I'm trying to filter through now, which is that, which is almost the opposite of the you're not special, you can't do it. It's like, I am actually in the position to do this. I think I can do it. And the only thing that's going to stop me doing it is the bullshit story that I tell myself that I can't do it. And so if I think about it, like, I am the exception, and I'll make it work, but also like if you get away from that whole like, you know, Steve Jobs, what kind of dent Do you want to put into the universe, all that sort of stuff? And I mean, I just find it so reassuring this guy like damn, What's your goal? And I'm like to get to the age of 65 and guy that was awesome. And then relax from then on. That's my goal. I don't care destination focus like I do you think I don't know what I'm gonna do and where I'm going to be what imagine retire because I could never imagine retiring. Oh, I'm just so came to retire really desperate. I feel like that's a note of it I at the end of 2016. And it's not have had two years of just like freelance work. And I tell you what, man, like if someone said to me, like, his 10 million bucks, and

55:41
make it last? Yeah.

55:42
I'll buy a nice house. All invest the rest. And I'm just gonna sit and raid and hang out with my friends and a cube mates and just in just relax. I know. Right? So you love the relaxing thing? Because there is that I think especially America culture, it's like the, you know, working really hard and the Protestant work ethic. Yeah. And it's also changed in regards to like, it feels like people used to really promote, like the luxury lifestyle or like relaxing lifestyle now, but if you look at on Instagram, so many people are posted, you know, people who are super well off, they want to post about how they're working really hard. And like that has become almost a higher status than just and that's why I kind of like this idea of like, I think a lot of that Iran, a lot of people work hard just because that's what they think they should do. Yeah, like, I still want to create stuff I still want to you know, experience that sort of creative frenzy that you know, when you have an idea in a brainstorm and suddenly everyone just leaps on it is like oh my god and this and that and you're like, Oh my god, the pathways become clear. And you know, I like that feeling and all that sort of stuff. And even like what we're doing today, like this is work. Yeah. Doesn't feel like it. Which is also it's just us sitting around shooting the shit. We can do it for a few more hours if I didn't have to get a haircut in 45 minutes. Don't lie just what do you ask for when you get a haircut by the way? I got a guy. So you know, as you just said, I want to talk to Dan, Josh said like

57:19
why did I sound awkward when I said that?

57:21
Because you are asking for a coffee called a may?

57:25
I didn't I didn't call it a Tommy in the in the moment. I didn't feel

57:30
like my voice. Black. Like I just guy just fill a cop with hot brown coffee and I'll drink it. I just

57:42
but um, yeah, so it is that idea of like, he's your I'm, like you talked about you know, am I special? Or is no one special? All these sorts of things? Yeah, it's like, I don't know, man. Oh, you should want to do is get through good time doing it. You know, that's all I think all I do is get to the end. And go awesome. Because if you worried too much about like, Am I doing this right? Am I doing that right? Have I done never lived up to these two these two? Like, what do you do about like? The idea is that you have never done like, I've never done a stand up set. Never in my whole life. And I agonized through my whole 20s from the age of 20 the age of 30 every I'd say at least once a week. I would go Why have I not done stand up? Why am I so scared of the judgment? Why am I so nervous? You know, I could do improv, I could host a radio show. I could be on camera, everything the same about stand up just made my skin crawl just that vulnerability. The the high base of the jokes that I've written I really really really want you to line

58:51
them and so what was the conclusion the table I

58:54
don't know I just got to the age now. 33 and I go Oh, he said just I never got stand up. Yeah,

59:00
I don't care. What is that realization though is that in life? It's

59:04
not for me it doesn't it doesn't find my pleasures and

59:06
how do you get that like is it going to therapy is it actually do it? therapy?

59:13
But that's what I wonder is it because like you've had that like so what's her doing or not doing or you get into a moment where it's like I could either feel these feelings or I can just like

59:24
be fine with it will regret a bitch and I think it's probably just a mind shift mindset shift no no

59:33
regret Tommy saying bitch words was

59:40
so you get say this the shift of guy I'm okay with not doing that. Were you looking outside knocking everyone else but even

59:48
my dream job like when I was a kid. As I said in Melbourne, I listened to Hamish and Andy every day with a notebook open writing notes, trying to teach myself how to do a drive.

59:57
those notes look like By the way, what would you write

59:59
just like

1:00:01
driving your home?

1:00:03
Like two sentences on like recapping the news story, then a joke and the jokes take the following formats. And then like, then you ask the cold as on the show, man. Yeah, just like you can work out how to make jokes pretty easily. Like it's just stuff like I'm like my favorite one. This is such like such low hanging comedy for your drive to it. This is like the lowest hanging comedy for you could ever get. A feel bad even just a mic such good radio is a story about an animal. Any story about an animal? Yeah. Baby the animal.

1:00:44
And then it's funny.

1:00:45
So if there's a story about a giant cow, right you go I'm as you say the sound Nick is the giant cow giant cow. It's twice the size of every cow in the herd. Oh, hello there. Oh, I'm so tall. Lot. That's hilarious. Hilarious. The amount of times I've done a segment about a funny animal and acted it out. And it's my promo. And it's made the best of the end of the year. And people come to me

1:01:10
go Oh my God, when you were that spider,

1:01:12
Mike. Yeah. So it would be like the equivalent. So learning stuff like that. Yeah. Well, no, actually, there was a I saw a mouse trap the other day. And I was thinking to myself, I wonder if that mouse is like,

1:01:24
the mouse trap. Boom. How much better that story just get lost, man.

1:01:37
You drank the Kool Aid. So do you feel like there hasn't been I

1:01:40
got I got to that job. Right. So I got to sit in literally the exact same chair with the same producer in the same

1:01:48
company in the same time slot. Right. It was phenomenal. I did it for nine months.

1:01:55
Is it sort of phenomenal? Like a 10 month? Is it underwhelming and summer Gaza? Keep it?

1:02:02
You felt that?

1:02:06
Nine?

1:02:06
Very Yeah. And so when

1:02:09
was it a lot. So that destination that you had in your mind, along with when the reality of the destination was the reality in your mind? So it actually was great. Yeah, because I've set goals and got them. This is the fact that

1:02:22
shit I'm a different person now. Well, I mean, I can I can I'll probably never do that again. That's the thing for me is like I do my dream job for you. Like I my wildest dream, my wildest dream. If you'd asked me, Dan, think up the craziest possible dream he could that what you could one day for a job. Like I remember when I used to get calls, and I was a teenager, and the walk from my house to calls went past the 90.9 stamp heat input studios. And I would walk past and thank God on that one. What's going on? Yeah. Or maybe if I look cool as I will pass over, like, get that guy on the radio. You know, it works. It drains crazy dreams, does it do it? Do you think that the people who have a similar right like what's the equivalent dream nowadays for people? Do you think like, do you think that there has been a shift in how radio is perceived? Or do you think it is? I don't know. Um, it's still bloody grind, isn't it? I mean, you know, we're enjoying sitting here. Imagine if we were getting paid a million bucks to do it. Not that I was I should say, but I'm sure.

1:03:31
Since we have zero missing contract.

1:03:34
It's funny. I mean, hearing what I found underwhelming is meeting people who have had a lot of success. And it's nothing how they sort of track to that success was nothing how I thought it was going to be obsidian dolls that can achieve Yeah, knowing what you know, it's like, it's like you literally had this dream that I'm sure so many people have had behind me and you made it and you made it happen. But it wasn't some tactic. Like the way you sort of break it down wasn't like this real

1:04:03
nice. Just saying yes. And work. It's this this idea of like magic things happen when hard work meets opportunity. Right? And you can't control opportunity. Like Yeah, you know, you can hustle a bit or be in the right place at the right time. Like I was with working with my mate Matt. And we both knew that Noah was desperate for a high mission and he was already obvious, right? Like, I was Sarah had Hamish dandy Nova Didn't they needed him call male do I we thought let's pitch ourselves.

1:04:33
But yeah, like

1:04:35
when hard work meets opportunity when when opportunity comes knocking and someone says Oh, okay, cool. I will give you that radio show nine that man, you know what? I might be 21. But I've done years of improv and putting on show comedy shows and all the sort of stuff that I reckon I come into the my boss at the time, Todd Campbell was like, Oh, yeah, give us a demo. I'll write it from shit to really shit. And we'll go from there. And I said, What's the writing anyway? Five stars.

1:05:16
So glad I don't have sex. That was a

1:05:26
feel good for me.

1:05:31
It was shameful.

1:05:34
I could feel just Jesus standing in the corner with his arms crossed, just shaking his head so much. I'm so

1:05:41
sorry. Get right at it. Yeah.

1:05:43
What do you say any he said, You know what? It's pretty good. And all I could think was? website. Yeah. So. But yeah, I mean, you just keep doing hard work, and hoping for opportunity. And eventually, you get the idea. You're on that porch, the age of 65. And you go right, let's, let's, let's cash that check now.

1:06:06
So if the dream was big back then,

1:06:09
is there any sort of reverse engineering it? What do you mean, the kid that walked past the radio station that actually was on the drive show, replacing Hamish and Andy years later, to now? going? What's that for you now

1:06:24
as well when I tell that for you

1:06:26
show for you looking forward now. Now, but the next dream Are you trying to reverse engineer?

1:06:33
I I just have one of my friends. Has your house got a porch? You're gonna need to kind of add balcony. Okay, I've got a shitty bow,

1:06:41
because you could almost do a minimum viable balcony. Exactly, right. Yeah. I,

1:06:47
one of my friends said to me, and she said it a year or two ago when I was just finishing up in radio. But she said to me again the other day, and it is. The weird part is now is the job. That next job doesn't exist yet. Like, you know, the The world is changing so much now that I just don't think there's any point in looking at a specific thing. And going that's what I want to do. Because in the time it will take you to get there. That won't be what you want to do anymore. So what do you focus on skills? Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's something on Yeah. And also, I focus on variety now. Because I spent 10 years just working on radio, and nothing else. And I got to the end the radio, and like, literally are like, Oh, cool. Well replace you with a bachelorette. And I'm like, like, you know, Sam frost great chick good on her. Like, she's kicked so many goals. But like, you can get that job without the 10 years experience. Yeah. So I feel like I spent 10 years booting up all this experience in something that was like, you don't need that much experience to do it. I was like, hot cut down. And I should I should have spent that like learning how to color it. Yeah. What would I be said that even though that is the case is that like, you know, nine months or whatever it was where you were on air? Was the the time when you decide when you worked out? Or you know, found out that you didn't have a job? But did you? What was that actual reaction in your head? Was it I should have been doing the coding was the actual thought process? Yeah, again, we talked about regrets before. There's very little that I regret. It'd be hard to be a real sad person. If you got to do your dream job. And then we're pissed off about it. Yeah. And also, I mean, look, so how do you contract like, I'm a lawyer, I'm a law student by nature. I signed a two year contract. So you didn't owe me anything more than that. They can tell me all it's for 10 years, but they don't own me. Yeah. So I'm fine with it. Right. But I'm. So what does that actually look like then? So you were as soon as you found out you were no longer on air. Were you cool with it, then? Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. I mean, it sucks. Because you know, you want it to be for 10 years. That's the dream. You know, you say, hey, mission, Andy, and you say Kyle Sandilands, and you go, that's what I want.

1:09:19
But they're the exception to the rule. Yeah.

1:09:20
Right. That's also worth remembering. They are the exception to the rule. And that is the whole, I guess that's to my point around the exception. Like, if you want to do something massive, if you want to get somewhere really big that you're going to be in the middle path, do it it's going to be probably different 20 a path before? Because otherwise, you're going to like if I think about university, I think that like film school not so I think the amount of people who go through that process and then at the other end looking for jobs, yeah, but then you know, go watch a bad movie and stay for the whole credits. Yeah,

1:09:51
all those people got work. Yeah,

1:09:53
exactly. Well, I think that's the thing. It's like, the that goal isn't necessarily being the the Hollywood, there's only going to be a small portion. Yeah, that actually can be the director. Yeah, there's a lot of people who are going to be the gaffer's and the grips and

1:10:07
all that. So they'll still get some mythical porch. You know what I mean? Yeah. So they might have a really great time. Yeah.

1:10:12
What about the kid who's growing up now listening to radio and thinking, I want to be like, they've got that,

1:10:19
that that breaks my heart to be at high like that. Just that idea of? Yeah, someone right now. listening to the radio going? Oh, God, I want to be Yeah, let's say who's on the radio at the moment.

1:10:36
50 bucks. I don't know who's

1:10:39
who's on the Dr. Marty. She got they want to go? Yeah,

1:10:43
let's say they want to share gold. Right? I would say why not?

1:10:55
But just like, instead of committing yourself to a medium, yeah. Like I always say always broke my heart. When I meet people in radio, and I got I've just been a radio fan. Since I was a kid. It's always been my dream. And I love radio. And I'd be like, I don't know. I mean, I love like storytelling and creating and entertaining and writing and performing. Right? So for them, it's like, I need to work in radio. Whereas for me, I need to be, you know, doing these things. Yeah. So instead of it being like, Oh, I really want to be the next Marty, sheer gold or Hamish Blake or whatever. Just go? Why go one step further. Why do you want to do that? And I reckon you'll really learn a lot about yourself and what you you know, what you like to do, rather than who you want to work for? Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying go be an Instagram influencer, because radio is dead. Yeah, but I'm saying there are. And I'm only learning this now. Because like I said it right here for a decade. There Albertans of possibilities in the world. Actually, nowadays. We were raised in the 90s, where things were pretty, you know, straight and narrow. You did a job. You did it for your life. And there were categories of job. And I'd be like, I'm a lawyer. I'm a banker. I'm a bricklayer. I'm a radio host. And that was just what you did. And the company employs you, and you just did it. And that plays into the sitting at the porch at 65 as well, too, don't you think? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Like, yeah, Joe probably have a bit of a 1950s sort of mentality around that. But also, I don't want to be working at the age of 70. I don't want to get up when I'm 75. Already. I've got bad names. Like, I don't want to get up the age of 75. and go, Oh, my God, how am I gonna earn money this way? But what about if it was doing Could you imagine being 65 doing a podcast? Yeah, that's the kind of thing I like to do. Yeah. So it's almost reframe it because it do not see that you've got your podcast completely obsessed, totally anti.

1:13:02
Well, this is the problem. The only reason I did the shithole of a show

1:13:08
that we might get right. The funny thing was I said yesterday, I was like,

1:13:12
good to be on the daily shit show.

1:13:15
Sometimes it is the funny ones. I've actually had that in my head the whole time. Because I had, I had said yesterday, I'm like, we've got Dan to boot from these podcast obsessed. I just short. I'm like, I've gotta fucking remember the whole thing. And that was my version of rebellion. Radio, what we do is we write it down, right? Yeah, that's outrageous thoughts. But tight words from the wise. totally obsessed, the doing the podcast versus radio? Is it scratching a different each? Or is that one of the same thing? It's really different. I think comedians would be really good at podcasts. And I think actually not it's probably done. But I just don't know if commercial radio hosts are very good at podcasts. It's interesting, because we get trying to talk for three minutes at a time to be really concise. Just fucking hiding this experience, because we've just got like, we have very idea. I'd hate this if it was my podcast, because I'd be like, what the hell? Yeah, I'm diabetes. I'm kind of following your lead. When I host a podcast, all I can think is, how does this all connect? Is someone switching off? Right? So if you listen to the podcast, we were able to switch off and I don't care like oh, yeah, listen to half there was something good there. There's no rule saying you have to listen to every second of a podcast. Yeah, like three people who've made it is fun. We're cool with that. Exactly. Because they download stats. Yeah, whereas like, with radio, it's like time spent listening. I mean, for as long as possible. Don't never scare anyone off never scare anyone off.

1:14:44
And that's I guess paint like if you don't want to scare you go sort of like vanilla flavor in some regards. Right. Like you said, what you just

1:14:51
you just get really for me, like that's the radius super formulaic. And so when you decide to do the podcast, what actually met you know, you have the idea in September of last year, it was naked in August this year, what was the shift? It was just this idea of I need something that I do is what Sam cab said to me, I need something that I do every week, rain, hail or shine, that doesn't depend on anything else. Because at the time, I was like, Oh, you know, I do a podcast about Game of Thrones, and I do a web series about the bachelor and you know, it's all this stuff. And it's like cold so you rely on that and it's it's for for a few months. You know, you do that for a few months and then you go cool. I don't need to do that anymore. Cuz I'm a very much I hate doing anything. repetitively. I love new challenges. I love different things. I hate doing the same thing over and over again, if we do a good find out on the dynamite show. And all the time without fail. The boss would come in and I do that every way.

1:15:57
And we go No, because then it'll suck. Yeah, do something even better next way. So I'm like that.

1:16:04
That was the end. Yeah. Because Do you think it is a curse? Because I guess the there is something in repetition. It's like they say like within radio it's the stuff that people remember when they're doing qualitative research. They remember Fred Bassett. Remember the benchmark that you know that you're going to hear every single week? I mean, I I think differently to that. personally. I mean, that's that's one hypothesis. Now I think that is how people listen to radio shows that I think more like that kid with the Did you get him on the CD thing? Yeah, like I remember Hamish wants just telling a standalone just a quick story about when his partner was away. So he sat in front of the fireplace wearing a dressing gown eating a roast chicken from the bag. And for some reason, in my mind, I've never forgotten just that image

1:16:55
is you created and probably the key button? Yeah,

1:16:59
I think most people don't listen to radio the way that I used to I service into radio. Like it was a podcast. Yeah, I was I listened to every second of every show. So what are the rules of party if you were you're a formula guy you like that sort of formula?

1:17:13
There's a few things I've learned about podcast

1:17:16
a few things I've learned about podcast is is me human.

1:17:24
I think

1:17:26
Pete like I said, like people don't need to be hit with stuff straight up and then to get out as soon as possible that people this show people love like a 10 minute briefing kind of thing. I think there are other media like I've been doing a bit of stuff like Google Home and stuff like that. And for that people want to get in and get out as quickly as humanly possible if you keep them for five seconds longer

1:17:45
they'll hate you. Is it utilitarian? Is that yes, they're wanting news

1:17:49
on the spectrum. Yeah, podcast one in radio in the middle and Google Home at the other Yeah, right. Um, but I think we podcast people kind of they don't care and if you listen to half a podcast you might go back you might just go to the next episode doesn't really matter it's more just like you know if you catch up with your friend and you don't cover off everything that's going on in your life but instead you spend ages and I talking about

1:18:23
you know what fruit you would be if you were fruit all I'd be a great idea don't give away the good stuff.

1:18:31
It was a private conversation it was stuck with it because we really did close

1:18:39
that's exciting is a benchmark it's in joke open guys.

1:18:45
NET NET NET NET that sounds different moo

1:18:50
moo cow was also a go right back. So the but yet so

1:18:55
it's more like the listening and is listen to it whenever they want and whatever. It's a lot more relaxed. I used to edit my podcasts so much because I my first few podcasts, I would cut myself out so much because I was like, Oh, it's more about the

1:19:11
guest

1:19:12
who want to hear about the guests. Can you like if you got one direction on your radio show that I want to hear you talking about, you know, how awkward you get with barbers they want to hear one director then you get one direction fans as your listenership who might not necessarily connect with you as well as people who are sticking around for you. Yeah, whereas a podcast is like they Yeah, you've got a guest on each week. But they come to your podcast so yeah, it's a bit different that way and it's I think for us we don't frame our conversations like interviews we don't want it to feel like we're just asking questions

1:19:43
mines mines more interview Yeah, mine is like

1:19:48
I want to like I specifically say to someone I want you to do the talking which is great for me because again I can just react Yeah.

1:19:58
Have someone tell you then radio there's reactors and generators.

1:20:03
So there's two types right there's generators This is definitely going on radio today. I'm going to get that headline and put it in this going on radio today. I think we should be able to get across maybe speak to bread must be some

1:20:16
debrief ways in on the Royal prayer

1:20:19
will get a photo can we we've actually got a union jack flag.

1:20:24
Headlines Dan

1:20:26
ruins childhood dream of being on

1:20:29
radio. Yeah.

1:20:30
Shit cans body. She got

1:20:34
it. She got one. I'm sorry.

1:20:39
I want to clarify anything else?

1:20:42
Maybe radio info. On the plus side. Don't listen this long.

1:20:47
So what did you

1:20:50
Yeah, you were talking about the generators? Yeah.

1:20:53
So generators and reactive? Yes.

1:20:55
And generators, you know, come up with stuff and reactors sort of bounce off. And I think one of the biggest things to me was realizing I'm actually a react up. Like I get more excited about interacting with people and about discovery and moments than I do about, you know,

1:21:17
he likes the stand up thing. Hi, here's my jokes. I hope you like Yeah, I'd rather be like,

1:21:21
Oh, that's a great joke. And this and that. And yeah. Oh, cool. You know, that sort of thing.

1:21:26
And I think

1:21:28
it's Yeah, it's important to that sort of stuff. And so what is that format? Then? If you were to take the those loves of what you want to do? Is it in? Obviously, improv is a big one. And how do you get on the improv thing? I've always thought I would love to do improv. And because I like that there's, as you're talking about, like, the rules type of thing. I feel like I'd be the type of guy who thinks I'm good at improv. But then I go there and it's like, you're not fucking doing improv is

1:21:53
probably different. Why?

1:21:54
Everyone does improve it. How would How would it begin to get into improv? Is it literally like

1:21:58
are this I'm part of a group called The Big hoo ha, which is a sort of professional improv group in Melbourne. And they do classes called the hoo ha Academy like that to me if like, I know, the people who teach, they're all brilliant. And yes, it's like a weekend thing. nod sorts and off the school thing was just the fact that you say after school was doing that,

1:22:21
ironically, but yeah, I think

1:22:25
well, I did Helen O'Grady which was like a drama school when I was a kid and I just remember a program Yeah, but I was just spewing because I was like you're wearing it looks like you're wearing your theater out. Yeah, right now. black soldiers Yeah. Yeah, that vibe the casual down below with my shorts.

1:22:44
I'm so sorry. So I'm not I'm not used to it. It's like Alan Partridge Oh, popped out again. Sorry. Another reference. Yeah,

1:22:53
but now with the Helen O'Grady thing I remember I was spewing because I was expecting that we're going to be doing drama and we're going to be doing all this stuff. It was a lot games and I just thought it was a little bit but

1:23:03
we do a lot of guys stuff as

1:23:05
well. But that's mainly because it's like saying are I want to play I want to be out there playing footy and you've got me in the gym. You know, you play footy. You need to spend the majority of time in the gym and doing drills for skills. Yeah,

1:23:21
strength conditioning. totally obsessed. What is he just gonna keep doing it every single week? Yeah,

1:23:27
the last I mean, it's the same guys always podcast. Yeah, so the last episode for the year comes out on Wednesday with Ryan Shelton. What's Ryan's obsession Back to the Future?

1:23:38
He actually Yeah, he went to LA or whatever. Yeah.

1:23:41
The jacket? Does he

1:23:43
hold the gold? This is this is gronk.

1:23:48
Slightly and utterly obsessed is the podcast fundamentally and Paramount? Yeah,

1:23:53
um, and then I'm going away over the silly season. And then when I get back, I'll kick it back into gear again. What's it like? Are you part of a network or somebody we possibly a cast or something? Like you know,

1:24:06
independent? I just may I can great.

1:24:09
It's

1:24:10
so so stressful.

1:24:13
Just being guests. Yeah,

1:24:15
it's just it's so draining. How do you reach out to most people? Yeah,

1:24:23
that's good. Yeah, it's a good way of doing Yeah, I

1:24:26
I kind of part of me is like, I don't want to rely too much on my mates because I want to keep them up my slave. But when it gets really grim, yeah, um, but that'll be enough momentum. Like it's almost like pretty good. Yeah, it's generally you rely on the kindness of strangers. What was the deal? I How did you find out about you got onto the top podcasts? What do you network now?

1:24:51
You know, that was a pleasant surprise. That's great. Yeah,

1:24:53
I just

1:24:56
saw my mates just texted me that morning. iTunes. Yeah, there's like iTunes had their top podcasts of 2018. And like, it was like, Teacher's pet lays out about crab. me. Did you see a big spike? Like I'm curious whether Yeah, yeah. That's really interesting. That the show didn't make it on. Yeah, we didn't were to we've got I like to think the reason is because I've marked out show was explicit. But I've got that. That level factors hypothesis. Yeah. No, I think it's to do with the content. No, I don't to do a content generator reactor. No, I was just dumb. I released my podcast sort of in that second half of the year. That's around about the time when people start going all we're probably going to have to put a best stuff out at the end of the year. And I was just gaining a bit of momentum there. Then around about September, October, I got onto the new and noteworthy. Yeah. And that was because of a few friends that I know and, like, just sort of persistent a miles in Apple. Yeah.

1:26:01
Well, I don't know anyone at Apple, but I'm friends and friends and that sort of stuff.

1:26:07
And you know, it's things like giving them the artwork in the right format as quickly as possible and stuff like that. And then yeah, I was like, oh, wow, that's so good. And yeah, I got a little spot from that as being in the new and noteworthy and I was like, Well done, Dan. You've really done a good job. And yeah, about six weeks later. Yeah, yeah.

1:26:28
That's cool. That's very cool. So what's the what's the moral of the story there?

1:26:35
was a it was a good one. Yeah,

1:26:37
not sure.

1:26:39
I call that my Korea Christmas present getting on my Korea Christmas present. Delivering may a nice little career boost in December. That's a good radio today headline. Yeah. Hi, the daily talk show.com if you want to send us an email, we just very quickly my email address

1:26:56
your email address

1:26:58
my phone number on it.

1:27:01
I'll get your hand up and I'll come on I know the people want to hear

1:27:09
the know we got a we got an email from someone from last year we do a shit job of when we have guests on. We don't we struggle to bring in any of the stuff that we doing on a regular basis. So they feel a little bit compartmentalised. Okay, so I just wanted to bring up the mailbag segment. Yeah, this is in my

1:27:28
bag. Is this the South while I

1:27:30
said I grow

1:27:33
Channel Nine, I think channel videos. Well, I mean, when I get the excitement when I first went to Channel Nine in in 2010, when I first was working in Sydney, and the address a crow's nest, and I was like,

1:27:44
Oh, the crow's nest.

1:27:54
It's funny, right,

1:27:55
isn't it? Yeah, you did it. That was seamless.

1:27:59
We got an email from Gemma. The subject line is Bumble nary. We're talking Yes. Yeah, yeah, binaries and she just said she was concerned about my spelling. She said that she was at the 22 minute mark when she wrote this email. She was saying that I read it out with an 18 instead of an M, which was giving her hives and she tells this very good copywriter Yeah, she tells us very quick story she said went to a wedding of one of my girlfriends last year and her fiance now husband is this big form of rugby playing investment banker as alpha as alpha as they get she said he'd been taking secret candle making classes as a form of stress relief. So we all were given a handmade candle from the groom as our bump and airy. That was 18 months ago and he's still making candles for shits and gigs. That was from gentlemen. Have you have you received a bomba Neri? I reckon

1:28:57
my granddad

1:29:00
rest his soul was just happy as in say he's Italian Joe bison to his teammate. And I reckon Yeah, as a kid I would have been to a few Italian weddings because

1:29:16
I was really frustrated with the BonBon Yeah, right? Because I was like damn, I thought that little easter eggs well I think I'm a little easter egg

1:29:23
that was turned

1:29:24
we've turned almond coated in chocolate into fucking candles. I think it's taking the

1:29:28
poor I was furious because I am encoding sugar disgusting that actually tastes quite good now I think maybe

1:29:35
I really hate almond dinner on pizza would

1:29:40
you get a Chinese restaurant all young chickens?

1:29:44
This is a great fit. Yeah,

1:29:48
so drive

1:29:52
drive 645 more next week

1:29:57
do you think we could do a benchmark on knots

1:30:00
dance most hated night

1:30:02
loved let's see. Yeah,

1:30:06
every single

1:30:08
every single way. Exactly. This is what I'd be like in meetings

1:30:13
just get through it

1:30:15
through it

1:30:17
once the mocks Come on, you can say whatever you want. That's what I always do. You be in meetings and everyone say these things he got I don't want to do any of that and you just let them put it all on the sheet. And the second the marks going you

1:30:29
don't want to do any of it. It all sucks. I hide it I don't want to do it in this city. I want you going haha

1:30:35
yeah, you're stuck with this now.

1:30:39
All the time. And the

1:30:42
other correct. What is our first real apology for the show? We don't do as much Here you

1:30:47
are. Thank you so much. I was wondering you were

1:30:52
telling Janssen my mom will make your fact. Yeah, I was making I was laughing at her because she was saying bye bunny airy, which is the correct way of saying it. I was saying bump and airy. And

1:31:07
it was the twain she had at the end.

1:31:10
And so screw to Derek we saw him downstairs at the cafe and he was saying you should apologize

1:31:17
to your shout outs right at the end well that's

1:31:19
the you know what we can actually also bury we've we haven't asked for this in about six months. We don't ask for an ID

1:31:25
number. Hey, what's up is Dan and you

1:31:28
are listening to the shit show.

1:31:33
Get it? Thanks guys. Bye.

1:31:35
No Do you know what we

1:31:37
know why

1:31:39
random kid you

1:31:44
know the one thing that we haven't done at all I reckon it's probably six months we made an effort where we're like asking people for ratings it's just bullshit we don't need to do it and we since I said that allow us yeah we will allow us to the thing is that since we stop saying it Yeah, we stopped getting them no one fucking rights Didn't you shall receive I say get on iTunes and give this one a five stars.

1:32:11
Today, the daily talk show.com if you wanna send us an email, but yeah, we've got 61 ratings So Father all five stars The good thing about asking it

1:32:20
we all stand up just

1:32:24
do it. But the good thing is that the it's it's because we're really it's like a fucking NLP someone stood up. If you notice when

1:32:34
you hang out the radio people I always make a joke and they just walk away. Yeah,

1:32:37
that's

1:32:41
my funny joke about five stars. And this is what I used to do is I would have wheels and I'll just push back.

1:32:50
Get going I'll just be like no,

1:32:53
we paneling or

1:32:56
who was pedaling. We always had different people in and say we had a g7 what point at them when you would want them to like what you that control? Like if you did a good job with your fucking ass. Yeah, man. That was guy. Hell.

1:33:09
Did you ever have a time where you

1:33:10
like managing that this thing? Like, say no to that?

1:33:14
Fucking bam, but it might draw. But the good thing about going in the end is you rarely get negative reviews because if they've stayed this far, unless they're a height follower, which we don't know how many have come from that space. Anyway,

1:33:27
hide the daily talk. show.com

1:33:29
got you guys have a good one. Thanks, Dan.

1:33:31
That's all right.
"