EP 994
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:00] Very low barrier to get into the growing squad.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:07] We've committed to do the daily talk show for 10 years. I had guys
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:11] put it in the calendar.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:13] Just like to check the temperature in the room. I told you my squeegee
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:16] story.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:20] It's the daily talk shop. So 994.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:25] Yeah, 94. I mean, today was meant to be our. Uh, 1000 tomorrow, 1000 episode? No, no, because we can't do maths. Have you had
Josh Janssen: [00:00:36] any other maths disasters in your life where you've
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:39] miscalculated? Um, not, that's not that's cost me. I mean, there was one, uh, the other day when I was driving back, which, okay, this is not, this is not math.
But it's relating to numbers. So I'll give you a fucking story. Also
Josh Janssen: [00:00:55] check out the numbers game podcast. Right? Great
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:59] podcast. Great podcast. Um, so the public holidays for Easter fell on Friday, Monday, I schedule our wages to go out on the day on the Monday. That's a public holiday. Yes. So they were scheduled.
They went out, but for some reason, Uh, T banks where it's, it's fucking over the internet. Are you saying there's someone that the bank has to be open for the transaction to go through? I don't get it. I do not get out. Did
Josh Janssen: [00:01:32] it not go through when it was meant to?
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:34] Well, it it's sent from our bank. Yeah. Throw to yours and everyone else in the business on the Monday, which it was scheduled to do that.
And so it should be instated. I automated that, which it should go out. We had some money in a different account that we transferred over. Because we will, I will need this money. So we transferred it over. That was on Saturday. Yeah. We're in a country town with a dollar 70 in the, in our accessible bank
Josh Janssen: [00:02:04] account.
Your personal, so you transferred. Okay. So we had
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:06] money coming from multiple places and it hadn't hit what'd you do? And it didn't hit and it was Tuesday and we're waiting. Oh, sorry. This was Tuesday when we're driving back on that long road trip. And w we're waiting and we're just thinking well, because it, so the way you can get money, if we had money in a nine G chance of error to an IgG, but we just didn't have the money, we just hadn't had the foresight.
And I was like, Oh, I get paid, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. So we're waiting in this country to have the thinking, fuck, I hope this money hits. Cause we'll be here for awhile. That is
Josh Janssen: [00:02:38] stressful. It's so annoying. And so what ended up happening,
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:42] Amy asked her sister, can, can you spot us? Uh, 60 bucks or 80 bucks, we put the petrol in, we drive an hour down the road, churching, it hit the fan.
We bet we call the ING. We're like, dude, what is going on? This is not normal. I'm thinking there's some fucking blockage in the system. But then I started getting real dark on the banking system of like, If it's automated and it's online banking, why stick to like open hours of a business? When it's on the internet, someone please send us through.
You're only doing crypto now. I only do crypto 24 seven access. You pay dot the AA I'll pay. I mean, that's all, I've got ADA dot with a bison mom. Uh, theater, I think it's called. Um, anyway, is that different to a theorem? No, there's another one theater theater theater. T H ETA.
Josh Janssen: [00:03:31] Are you comfortable if you lose it all?
Tommy Jackett: [00:03:34] Yeah, I'm okay with losing 450 bucks. That's what I, but yeah, I'll be at a thousand bucks. I've got an investment happening next week. The door's open. Okay. It's a three-day sale. Um, can't tell you much more, cause I don't want anyone else to get it. It's going to blow up.
Josh Janssen: [00:03:50] So the numbers are getting podcasts, which I mentioned, we produce that.
Yeah. And
Tommy Jackett: [00:03:55] do you want to see it on our Instagram stories? Yes.
Josh Janssen: [00:03:57] Uh, Jay smarty, Nick it's, it's, they're talking all things, investing and like buying homes and all that sort of thing. And they, um, in the next couple of weeks they have a segment around. Um, on my mates getting rich, this, this idea, or my is my neighbor getting rich, this idea around everyone's buying shit at the moment.
Things are happening. And, um, it does, it does sort of make you a little bit nervous in regards to if I, no, no. If Pete, like, if people are sort of, uh, over leveraged or if they're sort of, uh, getting into that thing, which is like, Oh, you know what? The house price is like, I just need to get him now. Like if I don't get in, I'm gonna be fucked.
Yeah. It feels like it's a risky. Position to be in. I mean,
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:47] people have been risking money in those, those are there's there's risk levels. And so buying a house, if you have a good deposit and a solid job and some money maybe to pay a few months of your mortgage, which is probably not the reality for most people, people are probably living like rent to rent or mortgage payment to mortgage payment, which most of the time it's fine until you hit something like COVID.
But I was thinking about. It's all just a trade-off. What are you willing to trade for that privilege or the option of, of purchasing something or living a certain life? Because it's like thinking about a lot of our pants, a lot of people, our age, a lot of people owned homes, houses were cheaper. W um, the wages weren't.
As high as they are now, but it seemed doable for people to purchase a home for 150 K 250 K when two parents are on 40 grand, that's 80 grand a year, couple of years of their salary would pay off the whole entire house we're in now it's 10, it's our salary times by 20. It's crazy. Like their
Josh Janssen: [00:06:02] interest rates were way higher to what we're
Tommy Jackett: [00:06:06] experiencing.
What also happened was as you held the asset, it fucking skyrocketed. So there's all these people that bought this home. They might be still paying the mortgage. The house is worth four or five times the cost of what, what they purchase it for. But then I was thinking about like, Think about the generations of shit parents.
What does that mean? Generations of parents that didn't communicate with their children that worked a lot. I feel like, think about the woke generation or us knowing now how to talk to kids or what you should be doing as a parent.
What
Josh Janssen: [00:06:39] are you trying to say? Bodhi? We're not going to have a house, but I'm going to give you a lot of cuddles.
So what you say.
Tommy Jackett: [00:06:45] I mean, that's an option. I love cotton who needs it, but I do like a half bedroom
Josh Janssen: [00:06:51] when dad's here. I mean, there is something in that, like there is,
Tommy Jackett: [00:06:54] I think about for us to get a house, to, to work our Dick off. Yes. And do long hours potentially sacrifice of time. Like, I feel it after spending a weekend away with my family and being with Bodhi and so.
I'm so impressed with the little man he's becoming, I'm just like, fuck, I don't want to lose that. Like I love seeing him. What is he doing? He's just a little guy. It makes me emotional, but just seeing him as a little man, and then thinking about the time like I have to spend away from him, it seems fucking ridiculous to do it, but then it's like, what's the other fucking option.
If you had all the money, had all the monies in the world, but if you had a whole bunch of money right now, I wouldn't choose to spend time with him and build up his character and do everything with him. But like, I think that's his Mo that's a dream for most, because then it's like working also teaches him resilience and teaches him.
It's a role model. I think about my dad who's loving and had had a father probably didn't communicate like my dad does with me. And I'm like, fuck, that's a jump in generation of someone who is. Doing what they probably didn't have. My dad, my grandfather went to the war, you know, it had a lot of that baggage PR proper wearing trousers every day.
Anyone who wears trousers, isn't telling you that love you. It was too much time spent on putting the trousers on or making sure they're right. No, I'm joking, but it definitely a different upbringing, but I see how hard my dad worked. But even when the time was, he was home in the afternoon, cause he left at six.
Five 30, how connected he was with me in the time that he was home. And so it is it's annoying cause you go, fuck. I just want all that
Josh Janssen: [00:08:40] time. What's the difference between being a loving parent and being a helicopter parent. Um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:08:48] how many toys you get? No loving parent helicopter
Josh Janssen: [00:08:51] parents, I guess, because if the helicopter parents sort of
Tommy Jackett: [00:08:56] climb up that cause you might fall
Josh Janssen: [00:08:57] or even, even just like being, yeah, I guess there's that element, but I'm even thinking.
Uh, there is something in giving a child space to grow winter. So to your point around going to work mean like there's a bunch of development that happens, Wayne. He's out interacting in the real world.
Tommy Jackett: [00:09:17] Well, so then it'd be cup, like a Molly, Molly mollycoddle coddled. Is that the right term of like your, your doing everything for them so that, yeah, it's.
A human needs to fail a human needs to learn through failing or through hurt. But then also, yeah. So the part of the equation you can control is how much love you give to your kid, um, which is a conscious decision. And how present are you when you are with them? But it's, it's tough. Like you think about the time two parents working, having a kid it's the equation.
Isn't nice. When you work it out in terms of how, how many hours you actually spend with them,
Josh Janssen: [00:10:02] is this a new observation? Like, so say you think about before Bodhi was born and you thought what it means to be an adult, what it means to be a dad what's changed for you.
Tommy Jackett: [00:10:13] Um, you just don't know what you don't know.
So before having. The kid think about yourself and your partner or your family, like the people that you do at your friends. But then you see the impacts that think about the people in the world and the impact of their parents on them. You are the sum of the five people you surround yourself with, and your parents are close for the first, you know, many formative years of a human's existence.
And so. It. Um, yeah, that's when it, I think you just see, I think I just see Bodie in the kind of kid he is and you know, how brave years and, and, um, how, how kind and loving he is, all these things. And you're just like, fuck, this is such formative years for them. I think it's just the dilemma that a lot of parents face.
And I think it can come out as guilt because he can't spend as much time or you trying to do things. I mean, it's a good thing to just question what it all means. Have you thought about
Josh Janssen: [00:11:20] when Bodhi goes to school, are you going to be the parent that picks him up at three 30 or whatever? Is it like what like is thinking too
Tommy Jackett: [00:11:29] hard?
I mean, this is things I don't have an answer for just yet, because it's still a little while off and it's like, you got to.
Josh Janssen: [00:11:37] You almost have to plan those, that shit though, too. Right? Because otherwise it's
Tommy Jackett: [00:11:40] like closer to see the scene. Like you can, you can make decisions quite quickly months out or before.
It's like, I'm just sort of a woman down the street today. And she, um, had two little kids, very cute ones. Reminds me a lot of Bodhi. He's older, he's in prep or grade one or something. And she has a daughter as well. And the coffee shop and I was like, Oh, school, holidays. I just thought, yeah. And then I was like, sorry, what are you?
Are you working? What's going on? And she's like, yeah, I worked from home or she's a lecturer or something, but it's like a real struggle. She couldn't get the kid into the kids into after school care, like a holiday program. Yeah. And so she has to have the kids. And so it had, because if you don't probably design your life, which I'm speaking from someone who hasn't probably designed their life.
In the way that would support that. Like my parents, which I don't think they probably designed their life. Like, I think it's so modern to be like, optimize design your life. But my parents, my dad had a business and mom had her own business that she was flexible with. And so she could look after the kids and my dad worked.
Yeah. And so that worked and we lived near the school. You know, there was many things that were probably in our favor, but I like Mike, did I go to after school care? I think I can't even really remember.
Josh Janssen: [00:13:06] I, I never did. I think that when I was really young, so from sort of prep to grade six, so all of primary school, I think mum was focused on us and then went back into dental nursing.
Sort of year seven, which I think is sort of the perfect thing, because like, once you get old enough that you can walk home from school, you can unload, you know, like you don't need to be driven around and things like that. I
Tommy Jackett: [00:13:33] mean, there's new life, new lives, new lives. So like Amy's mom comes away with us.
It comes with us. She paid for the house. We went away with her. Um, and she's. Mid fifties, late fifties, but she, you know, doesn't have kids living with her. So she had three kids of her own and her new partner had, you know, husband has his own kid, but they've got a new life. Yeah. And so it's, it's weird because he go, once the kids leave the nest, you CA there's a new law thinking about all the CRI nomads that are like in a new adventure of their life.
And so it's. If you make it through, it's like there are new versions along the way.
Josh Janssen: [00:14:17] And so, cause I, I always, I think that I'm a visual, like a visualizer. I'm always visualizing what I want to be happening in the future. Like that idea of like, Oh, you know, a few months out, I'll see how it is. I feel like that's so it's so hard to execute on what you want based on.
That idea. So there's an element of fear, which is you don't know where things will be or what it is, but if you don't have the, this is actually what I want. This is how long, like this is, you know, Bodhi is going to school in X, X amount of months or years or whatever it is. How long has it now? Is it a year and
Tommy Jackett: [00:14:56] half?
Is it another whole year? Starts at school? Yes.
Josh Janssen: [00:14:59] But saying, okay, like this is in the ideal scenario. This is what I want to do. Hmm. Because it is hard to, like, I think most people ourselves included you are the, your previous decisions. So the things that you did, the decisions that you made one, two, three years ago is a reason why you're doing what you're doing, but he's in full.
Yeah. And so if you think about like, you know, business wise, the decision of like staying in the business and all that sort of thing. So based on that, There is a lot to be said with like, so for me, like I think about the golf stuff,
Tommy Jackett: [00:15:42] I tried to be relatable to one of your loves golf is strong. Love. Don't you dare tear up over golf. I'll fucking, it's beautiful.
Josh Janssen: [00:15:53] Yeah. What the swings become no bit the, um, so that's obviously. That, that that's me saying, okay. Like I want to change my lifestyle. I want to be more active. I want to be more social.
I want to be doing these sorts of things. And so that was like taking a step in that direction. It's is this unrelated, but it's classic. It's a, it's a, it's an it's. If someone, without a kid talking about the
Tommy Jackett: [00:16:19] funniness of it is like a bad analogy, but don't you think, like,
Josh Janssen: [00:16:23] I think, um, like it's always, I mean, it's a, that's what parents will do, right?
Like one of the most
Tommy Jackett: [00:16:30] time Ridge. Um, things that someone like, if someone has time on their hands, if they're rich, they've got a lot of time golfers. Yeah. But
Josh Janssen: [00:16:39] I think like, it's, it's funny because there's, but I also think from a, like an observation when I was a kid, because when you're a kid, like everyone has some version of family dynamic or that, you know, they, you know, everyone's grown up in some form of situation, whatever that is, whether parents, whatever.
Um, and I think the interesting thing is if you like it. So most kids, I don't know if you can relate to this, but I remember my parents sort of, eye-rolling a bit at the, the friends who don't have kids or whatever the don't get it. Oh. You know, I like the people that are around, it's just like, Oh, they fucking, you know, like, Oh, of course I can do that because they don't have to worry about X, Y, and Z.
No,
Tommy Jackett: [00:17:15] I've never heard that. I think it's because I was probably hanging around kids and their parents. So they are people
Josh Janssen: [00:17:20] that I feel like it's, yeah, it's more that sort of, um, the, the family, you know, the, the, you know, dad's siblings or mum, siblings, or whatever it is, where it's like, I, you know, you've got the fun.
Yeah. Uh, auntie or whatever it is, it's got a bit of a different lifestyle.
Tommy Jackett: [00:17:38] It looks fun from the outside. Very fucking sore head. But do you think like the, I guess the thing with, I you're spot on with it, I think there is many things that are general advice that connect to parity, which is how do you want that to look in the year?
Like, W I think the, their, their thing of having a kid in daycare where you've got you. So you form a routine where you know that you can execute on the routine for many years. And so that's like a learning curve until you are in it. And then there's a new routine now that I know, or a daycare routine, or having the ability to, you know, send a kid off in the morning and get them in the afternoon, like much longer hours.
You just riding that out, but then there will be a new one that will be a challenge and different. But thinking about like, um, as parents, you know, a parent who, uh, um, a couple that has one person working, you see how it makes a lot of sense. You see how the friction they see out is a full-time job. Or it's, you know, it's traditionally the, the male, but there's a lot of men now being stay at home parents because you know, their product can make a lot more money than they can and they see the benefit of it.
So you do see how all those things make a lot more sense. And why there is a parent at home or from a cost cutting perspective, running the numbers on it. I mean, school's much cheaper. Well, don't you think like,
Josh Janssen: [00:19:07] So my thought is around like parenting. When you ever people talk about it, there's a lot of people who talk about the out of control, nature of it.
Like I've got cute. Like it's not that there's a, there's a version of it, which is, um, I can't like control my life because I've got these things external to me, which I, I understand it's always a hard. Topic of conversation because I don't have
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:35] probably why do articulate it and I see where it can, the out of control thing can be.
He comes from two people working and then both having two people that have, uh, wanting to do, you know, or exceeding their career or do something beyond what the, you know, what they, what their life is currently and a child on top of that. Because there is like, because you can, it would make sense to you.
If I said there's a couple, one person works and is excelling in their career, the other person is up for looking after the kid. And there's a teamwork there. It's like when one snowed under. This person can really, this person can really take the brunt of the child rearing it's like, and you see how the teamwork can, but it's hard when society that, uh, you know, like living is expensive.
Different parts of the world. Um, and two parents needing to work, but then also, so they're swimming in that together and both also wanting to do other things know I want to fucking go and exercise, or I want to go this class, or I want to go out with my friends. And so you've got two people that are butting heads in that respect.
And so you see how it's like a kid on top of that with, uh, you've got, you've got, you know, like a no schedule or structure, um, and support on the backend. So you can, you can structure it. I mean, people have survived this shit, but it is challenging. Or what about
Josh Janssen: [00:21:05] like, I guess part of it is just wanting to have everything want him to have, and also, so I, and I think that potentially that's where mental health issues are at at the moment.
It's because like, We, uh, we're told that we can do anything. We can be in a thing. We can, we can have our cake and eat it so you can have the awesome house. You can go on the holidays, you can do all of this. Um, and that's where, I guess, minimalism, like if you actually just draw back expectations around those elements of like, Oh no, I can't like, it doesn't make sense for me to do X, Y, and Z.
I just feel like there's.
Tommy Jackett: [00:21:46] Well thinking about this. So if Amy stops working and we live off one salary, if you were in the mindset of a two salary existence and the spending that comes with the spending ability that comes with having two incomes, that's a hard existence, but you're saying that the pulling back of like, you can do a lot with one salary.
We just can't be as, or, you know, uh, out there with the money you're spending time rich. Well, exactly. And so that's where the, there is huge reward in accepting a way of existing. And then growing that version,
Josh Janssen: [00:22:23] it might mean, you know, for some people it's like, I want to be within X amount of kilometers from the city or this or that, but maybe the thing is that like, to make it work.
It is like, yeah, that completely different
Tommy Jackett: [00:22:37] existence. I mean, this is, and the comparison that creeps in of like, Oh, I want that fucking boat. Cause Kevin and his wife had that, you know? Yeah. The jet ski, but, but this is where this is the pain. Cause then you're feeling like you're you're without you, without time you without money.
But then yeah, looking, flipping this flipping the, which is minimalism is. Actually being okay with having less or doing less or,
Josh Janssen: [00:23:01] but it feels like it needs to be a conversation beforehand because it's very hard to, if you're not that type, if you don't see yourself being a full time, parent doing all of that, it is a hard like, then it means that someone is making a sacrifice of
Tommy Jackett: [00:23:21] sorts.
Yeah. Cause it does always swipe it's the strategy. Without setting strategy one will happen. And so that's a lot of people that it's just life happens. And so I just, I feel how hard it is to make the decision. If someone was deciding to stop working and actually being a full-time parent, that's a tough decision.
If you've been tuned process, you've been programmed to think. Life's about a career. Like I think about that,
Josh Janssen: [00:23:49] but, so what does that mean? So using that example say Amy was wasn't working, um, and was, you know, being a full-time parent, which is the job and it's
Tommy Jackett: [00:23:59] the hardest part. Those couldn't do
Josh Janssen: [00:24:02] it yet. And so if you using using that example, um, I'm just trying to think of the, I mean, I know, I just, wasn't thinking about the dude thing.
I think any, like, I don't think we can, uh, say men are this women are this, like, I just don't think, I don't think that that's a, that's a thing. Like
Tommy Jackett: [00:24:29] I think, I think, um,
Josh Janssen: [00:24:34] So early stages like a baby, obviously there's breastfeeding and all that. So I thing, but there's, if you're talking primary school years, it becomes a bit more of an even playing field in regards to, you know, which parent could be doing it.
Tommy Jackett: [00:24:49] Of course later, later in the life. Yeah. There's a lot that I couldn't do. That would be just tough. And. I mean, yeah, you could, you could, you could re you can bring up a child from day one as a man bottle-feeding and stuff. I mean, there's, that, that is a reality, but I think there is a, a general generalization.
There is. A difference there a slight difference, but I mean, it's just fucking getting into the weeds, but I think it's, there are a lot more men, which it's not like fucking her eye for men that they're becoming fathers or they're choosing to be the stay at home.
Josh Janssen: [00:25:25] So how do you make, make the decisions? So for instance, using that example, if Amy's like, Oh, I actually want to work and you want to work, like how does, how do we work it out?
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:35] Yeah. It's communication. I don't know.
Josh Janssen: [00:25:38] Like if you thought about being a full time. Parent, what would that look like? Yeah,
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:44] I think it would be too challenging from, for my head of like, um, wanting to do, you know, like driven in a bunch of ways. I haven't started businesses for no reason. I think it's like done a bunch of them over the years and it needs a drive.
It needs some kind of drive to it. So
Josh Janssen: [00:26:02] that's like the individual perspective of. This is what I need or whatever it is, but say
Tommy Jackett: [00:26:10] Amy's, that's what you're saying. That's what you're up against. Um,
Josh Janssen: [00:26:13] but you can't like, I think that the using the, like, I think that that's where we are in 2021 where it's not like the, I think that when we grew up, it was more gendered where it was like, Oh, you know what?
Like, uh, you know, mothers group, you would S that was a common thing, right. Where it's like, The, if you look at things like careers, if you look at all of these things that are tied in to, um, where women are in society, there's a bunch of it that is relating to this very issue, right? If you're, if you say, um, okay, you're going to take a year off two years off, whatever it is, big chunk of time that you're not doing the thing that you were planning on doing.
Hmm, from, from my career perspective. And so then
Tommy Jackett: [00:27:07] it's huge. I mean, but, uh, the, the mothers group thing is, um, usually women, very early stages of having the child coming together, support network. That's what mothers groups are local based, but it is at the time where you're heavily breastfeeding. It's like you're in the fucking fog of it all from just having a child.
Um, but then. Yeah. No.
Josh Janssen: [00:27:30] So I guess the thinking that thinking that you have around, you know,
Tommy Jackett: [00:27:36] get a kid into daycare at a few months. It's crazy. Like you can get back to work. And so this
Josh Janssen: [00:27:42] is, but this is the whole point that we're trying to work out. Right. Which is like, what is the point of being a parent?
And so this is my purse, my personal view on it for me is like, and less and less I can. If my fear would be being a distracted parent, being
Tommy Jackett: [00:28:03] a parent, the world is geared to distract parents or humans. I think about the thing
Josh Janssen: [00:28:09] in your pocket. Yeah. And so it's not about being perfect, but I think that I internally don't feel like I don't feel that sort of.
Uh, that's my focus or that's, that's something that I necessarily want to go down. And so like, I've worked that out, but I guess from a societal perspective, you know, there isn't that sort of, you know, you've got the, uh, the biological clock, you have all of these things, which is sort of, uh, putting pressure on people to have kids.
But if you can't as a team, as a couple, trying to work out like. What that version is, that's like hard, right? Because it means, it means that someone is getting the sore end of the deal, which also means that they're not necessarily going to be the best parent because they're not, I think that like part of potentially parenting is that like the parents fulfilled as well.
And like that's part of the whole.
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:12] Um, well, I don't think it's, it's never as clear as that it's, it's, um, thinking about anything in life, the struggles actually help you figure shit out. And so many people that they would have been confused about their existence and the children have, you know, helped them sort of get some, um, pain into their, or some pressure under them to work shit out, to take a different path or to figure it out.
And so that's what I like. There is a lot of adapting, uh, learning and adapting. As you go as a parent, did you have a
Josh Janssen: [00:29:46] conversation before you had Bodhi around? These are the types of, this is the parents that we want to be. This is what we want to do. Nah,
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:53] nah, nah. Which I mean, fuck, it's a, um, I think most of it, probably, if it's not said in that respect is, is inside of you as a result of your upbringing.
Yeah. So for me, it's the kind of parents might be kind of people. My parents were to me. And so wanting to take that on, if you've got two
Josh Janssen: [00:30:16] individuals with two different stories, based on that,
Tommy Jackett: [00:30:20] to think about all the, so it's so easy to articulate for it to seem like there was some confusion, but there's probably a version of partners being aligned.
Amy and I are aligned having a child. Yeah. Is that synergy. We are loving. We are on the same page on many, many things. There is definitely worth it's like saying I have never written my goals down or they're just in my head or I don't really think about, you know, there's a lot of people that find success, writing them down, not writing down, keeping them ahead, never speaking it, you know, there's a million ways to achieve things.
And so parenting is a version of that.
Josh Janssen: [00:30:58] Do you think that in general, in the idea of parenting. There is a, um, a vibe that don't, um, don't overthink it. Don't over communicate it never a right time. Just do what you will figure it out like that. That's the
Tommy Jackett: [00:31:14] vibe that I think it's not that I don't think there's a few things in there.
Uh, don't communicate. It probably isn't necessary. Not don't communicate it. There is a lot of figuring out there's a lot of intellectualizing you're doing right now about something you have no idea about not saying that it's a
Josh Janssen: [00:31:28] negative. I do. So my experience is choosing not to write in a society where it's like everyone expects you to have a kid.
There's a lot of, and this is, I guess, what parents are probably listening, screaming at the speaker. It is a tree. I understand that this is a triggering topic, which is, you don't know what it's like, blah, blah, blah. But there is, there's the other side of it, which is not having a kid is a big choice and it's not.
Um, I think that the easy way to go is. It's a choice of selfishness surface. You know, it's a choice of which I, I can say the, um, the connection when you say like the golf thing, right. Which is like, it's someone who's wanting a life of leisure versus, you know, wanting to do something fulfilling or whatever.
Um, which I don't take on it. Like that's not how I feel about it. Um, but from a, from the perspective of, um, like surely, so say if you're looking at the friction point now, There's probably a planning or conversation around, you know, what, like let's look at what is, you know, say 18 years, 20 years, it's like a long time, but like, what does that even remotely look like?
And if you visualize that and you can both as a couple say, okay, well, that's what we're, that's sort of where we want to go because the conversations are gonna happen anyway. Right? Like they're gonna have to work it
Tommy Jackett: [00:32:55] out. I mean, I do have all these conversations. It's just, it's it, most people probably aren't having them as a sit down session every Thursday, which has benefit to doing that every Thursday, not Wednesday.
Don't
Josh Janssen: [00:33:09] even just think, I just think about like, The, and I, I wanted to, how many, I feel like your, the common version, right? I don't like, I think if you listen to parents, it's like, Oh yeah, like we had no idea. Like we're just, you know, sort of swimming and, you know, just trying to figure it out. Hmm. Um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:33:30] and you do figure it out.
I think that's how, that's how so many of us are here.
Josh Janssen: [00:33:36] Um, yeah, I think like, I wonder, I wonder what the, for like new parents. If you look at like, as part of it is like, um, uh, cognitive dissonance, which is like, you just keep like it once you've done something, it makes complete sense because you are, you don't want to change where you are and because you are where you are, it's very hard to look back and say, ah, I actually would do X, Y, and Z differently.
Like most, I think when you speak to most parents, They're less, there's only very few that I've spoken to where it's like, don't do it. Like fucking don't do it type of thing. Everyone's on board, um, at that stage. But it doesn't mean that there's not awesome lessons that people who are just on their journey of becoming parents, that they would get benefit from.
Was there anything that you heard or sorry, was there anything that you experienced that you wish you had known before the experience. No,
Tommy Jackett: [00:34:34] cause I don't think it would have connected. I legit don't think anyone saying anything would have, uh, had a penny drop moment for me until you fucking balls deep in it and actually impregnating.
No, if it's like, it just it's like me pointing out the second birth or, you know, the things we know going into the birthing class is like, I just, even if I did that class, I still don't think I would experience that the way. Um, I am now just based on never having the knowledge, like the actual lived experience.
And so it's so
Josh Janssen: [00:35:13] weird though, when you think about like, so if you're going to, uh, if you were taking on something that was going to cost you 30 grand a year or 40, 50 grand a year or whatever it is, The lifetime cost of a child's a million bucks or whatever this day and age, um, thinking about like the thought that goes into like the pragmatic
Tommy Jackett: [00:35:34] practical.
I actually don't think we would have a human existence if we looked at it like that, because you wouldn't want to have kids like you don't want to because fucking dude, the mass doesn't add up. But the, but there there's something
Josh Janssen: [00:35:46] more than that, which other
Tommy Jackett: [00:35:49] human population got down to something as low as 7,000 or something crazy like that on this earth.
I don't know about that, but it's fucking mind blowing that we got down that low and now, you know, Skyra, you're
Josh Janssen: [00:36:01] worrying that we're going to have more kids,
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:04] not at all. There's a lot. There'll be 10 billion.
Josh Janssen: [00:36:09] When you have a kid for you personally, what's the. If you, if someone said, why do you want to have a kid back then?
What would you have?
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:20] Uh, w I probably hadn't thought about it. I hadn't thought about it, but I hadn't never thought I'd never thought I don't want to have kids. And so, yeah. It's interesting. It's, it's, it's beautiful. It's amazing. It's, it's a fucking miracle. Like, I
Josh Janssen: [00:36:37] think that's what you were thinking before having
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:38] kids now never.
No, it's untapped. It's tapped into not untapped. It's tapped into a different
Josh Janssen: [00:36:46] part of your
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:47] existence. Yeah. Part of me that I hadn't felt before, it's like I heard a guy talking about how he doesn't look at anybody in the eyes. And a bit of an odd ball, just because the hates making eye contact. Doesn't like it.
Yeah. But he's approachable. He's had it. Yeah. He's had it. Wasn't the guy in the project, but he, since having a kid, he just can't stop looking into this kid's eyes is looking like in a, and I get that. It's like we, because I'd never think how weird, like I love getting close nose on nose. So personally, do
Josh Janssen: [00:37:17] you know what it reminds me of religion?
What does being a parent? So for instance, like, think about like a religion. If, uh, if you're a religious guy and I started saying like, what it like, and tried to put my thinking behind it, which is spreadsheets and the practical staff for projecting my version of what I think that I want from life or whatever.
When you have those conversations with people who are religious, it doesn't.
Tommy Jackett: [00:37:48] Yeah. It's like saying it was there actually a guy that turned water into wine was, did the C's really. Get separated by an individual. Cause if you, in your current form think that that is able to happen. Yeah. Have you ever seen in your lifetime?
I get it. You, you look into it. And so, but, so
Josh Janssen: [00:38:06] there's definitely like a, yeah. If you think about religion, I've had a bunch of conversations with mates. They're religious talking about this stuff. It's like, it's such a personal journey that it's like, Oh, like this is a mate. Like if, once it becomes so, so much of it is identity.
Um, and I think that interesting
Tommy Jackett: [00:38:26] thing, I think it makes you question identity. So it's like a part of your identity, but thinking about. What it all means and spending all the time you do at your job. So if you're a guy who's wrapped up in identity of, I'm the guy that does X at my business or at my job, but then it questions that and, and makes you.
Look at why are you, why, why do you think that will, is that really who you are? Or is that really bringing you fulfillment? So, but that's like anything, you pick up a golf club and you're like, Holy shit, what have I been? Why? Like, this is ticks all the boxes, you know, it's walking. Yeah. Um, it's, it's socializing, it's socializing being
Josh Janssen: [00:39:11] out in
Tommy Jackett: [00:39:12] nature, golf clubs.
There's four, only four are allowed on the. Yeah, of course at one time. Yeah, it's perfect. It's great. A little amount of pain, but you just start seeing all that. And so that's how everyone adapts to anything.
Josh Janssen: [00:39:24] Interesting thing on the identity stuff is I feel like if you were having a kid in the eighties or the nineties, uh, there was less options to parents, so it was just like, you just fucking sucked it up and did what you had to do, which is
Tommy Jackett: [00:39:38] why I'm thinking about the different generations.
Yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:39:41] But you think about now, but the problem is now it's like you have. You have options. So even friends of mine that have kids where it's like, Oh, you know what? Like I want to go in to study or I want to do this, or I want to completely change my career. How, where does that fit in with everything that's happening?
Right. It's people like, you know, mates that have multiple houses and that they're talking about this, it's like, Oh, it's going to mean. Yeah. Taking step backs, stepping side, like completely shifting their lines. Um, you can also
Tommy Jackett: [00:40:14] have a kid and totally not be into parenting and not be into it. It's like, but you don't understand really why?
Like it's, it's just inside of you is not, it's like women that say I'm not maternal. They don't have a maternal bone in their body. That's a legit thing. Like I just don't have the feeling for it. And so, yeah. It's um, It's all fascinating humans, humans are fascinating. And
Josh Janssen: [00:40:41] so if you'd go back to the earlier conversation around seeing Bodhi, spending time with Bodhi, where do you, where do you sit?
Where do you land with all of this stuff that we've just spoken about around identity and time and money and all of that, and then Bodhi the child that wants your attention?
Tommy Jackett: [00:41:02] Um, yeah, it's a, it's an ongoing. Uh, thing that I'm thinking about, like, um, well, cause that
Josh Janssen: [00:41:11] job thing, like, so using the example of your full time, Amy's, full-time looking after Bodhi that compared to what you're talking about of missing, like seeing that you need to spend time with Bodhi, you see how there's like a disconnect between what you're sort of describing is almost what we describe as like older generation, which is.
The dad might not be as present. They're always at work. You see that, you know,
Tommy Jackett: [00:41:39] but there is a trade off think about, uh, I guess it's really being clear on, um, what it is. That you're wanting, which it's, it's, it's a hard, a hard decision for a lot of people. So if there's money, like, or if you're chasing some dream, that means you're not present with your child a lot, because you're not there.
It's like, but the real result at the end is X. And so that's where it's, um, I mean, there's probably people that are quite happy not being around their kid because they're chasing something and they, and it's, and they've, but they've decided on that. So they've got someone at home working, so there's a
Josh Janssen: [00:42:17] bunch of, uh, rich families with kids that are fucked up because they, you know, the parents thought that everything that they needed was, you know, a credit card and, you know, whereas the reality is.
That's what a fucking hug.
Tommy Jackett: [00:42:34] Exactly.
Josh Janssen: [00:42:34] But so, and so isn't that like there's, um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:42:37] but that's someone out of alignment or that is probably missed the cues or, you know, but he's, most kids just want to be loved. So
Josh Janssen: [00:42:48] if that's the case, then it becomes this weird thing where it's like, um, if, if all they want is to be loved, Then, then the idea of work and stuff like you almost want to be like, how do you do the minimum amount of work that sustains a thing.
But the problem is that there's this fear that I need to be buying. I can't be renting on each, like buy a house. Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:43:13] Security. It is a conundrum of life. It is the, the, if you had the answer, you could fucking make a lot of money from an ebook. And, and, uh, make money while you're playing golf. Yeah. That's the dream.
It's not making money playing golf.
Josh Janssen: [00:43:28] Yeah. Just take passive income. Yeah. Passive parent income. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:43:34] any other thoughts? So let's workshop a few, um, golf, um, themed ebook titles about this. You say you made 10 million bucks while on the golf course. Um, swingers, how to make it big. And,
Josh Janssen: [00:43:52] uh, swingers having your cake and eating it too on the golf course.
Tommy Jackett: [00:43:58] You like that? The $10 million man?
Josh Janssen: [00:44:00] Yeah. Um, how's that related to golf? It's
Tommy Jackett: [00:44:04] not just you, you just because there's a swing and swing is a guy, but then it's like, it has to add the guy that made it rich while playing
Josh Janssen: [00:44:11] golf. I mean, you would, if, if you were running a golf book, it would be balls deep in parent
Tommy Jackett: [00:44:18] Holly in wine every time.
Um, we can do one more, uh, uh,
uh,
Did you see the green putting the hunting for parenting? Yeah. Yeah. Heading, cutting for, um, putting in parenting, putting
Josh Janssen: [00:44:48] parenting, uh, the, the, the sacred life of golf while being a great. Parents. It's another tool show a
Tommy Jackett: [00:44:58] hope. If you're, if you're a parent and experience and have experienced, maybe some of these, these thoughts, or if you're a person who doesn't want kids.
And this had some thoughts, throw some questions. Cause I think that's the thing. Questions can circulate. You might not have the answers, like how do I work and chase my career, but also be a great parent. Like, that's a question that's fucking hard to answer, but we'll give it a crack.
Josh Janssen: [00:45:23] Hybridoma talks with our com.
Have a good one guys
Tommy Jackett: [00:45:25] say guys.