Bodhi Has Been Exposed To Offensive Song Lyrics

Tommy: It's a very low barrier to get into the Gronk Squad.

Josh: That's crazy. We've committed to do the Daily Talk Show for 10 years.

Tommy: Hi guys. Hi guys.

Josh: Put it in the calendar. I'd just like to cheque the temperature in the room. I told you my squeegee story.

Tommy: It is outrageous.

Josh: Come on, let's go. It's the Daily Talk Show episode 976.

Tommy: Happy Weird Wednesday, everyone.

Josh: Also known as Hump Day.

Tommy: It is.

Josh: It is.

Tommy: Tell you something weird. Yeah, not weird. What's your vibe on— I mean, you don't have a kid. This is actually the best because I can ask you and then you can give me a real answer. Do you think parents don't give real answers?

Josh: No, no, no, no. As in, uh, I don't have that experience, so maybe I can give something that's slightly different than the average.

Tommy: Yeah, Bodhi is a sponge. Kids are sponges. I mean, they're as dirty as a sponge.

Josh: And we know you hate sponges.

Tommy: Is this why you're not having kids?

Josh: Because you hate sponges. Yeah.

Tommy: That is the funniest little bit where I threw you a sponge.

Josh: Eh, that's really gross.

Tommy: Have you actually not touched a sponge?

Josh: No, no, I just use the, um, the, the ones with the handles on them. That's really pathetic, isn't it?

Tommy: You know why we— we know why you love handles.

Josh: It's a Squeaky reference.

Tommy: No, so, um, Saturday night, having a little fun time with Bodie's friend who was over. I mentioned yesterday the pizzas in the backyard, but Amy had a playlist. She's got a playlist going on Spotify. It's her pregnancy. It's her like go-time playlist. So, when the baby's coming. A push playlist. Well, it's kind of like when you get to the hospital and you got to, you know, set it all up, you get the playlist going. There's in your mind and then there's reality. In reality, it could go out the window, but at least you have a playlist.

Josh: What sort of songs are we talking? Dude.

Tommy: I had a go at her this morning about her playlist because I'm thinking—

Josh: So she's playing it before, like, surely there's something in holding on to them and only, you know, if you're going to play Eye of the Tiger, play it as you're coming out onto the court rather than every single day.

Tommy: Yeah, because then it doesn't fire you up. So she's put in her favourite songs, some really great stuff in there. It goes from, you know, almost like the, the, what's his name, Ben Harper? No, just some like sort of melodic stuff, but into then some hip-hop, some like sick tunes, one being N Word in Paris. And if you know this song, Jay-Z, Kanye West, it's off their Watch the Throne album. One of the best albums. I think it's sort of a thing. One of the best albums collaboration between the two. One of the best albums between them, I reckon. And this one, N-Word, you know what that is, in Paris is one of their songs. And so, on the artwork of it is N and then it's like, you know what it means, but they don't spell it out. In the song, they say it out loud.

Josh: Quite an aggressive lyric to be. Yeah.

Tommy: It's a sick song, and as a white guy, I get around it, but you obviously can't be screaming the lyrics. Um, and it's now Bodhi's favourite song.

Josh: Oh, really? And so, so is it Amy— is it on Amy's playlist?

Tommy: Yeah, which she was pumping at the— at our, um, Saturday night pizza night in the backyard. And so N in Paris was playing, and There's always a time where you're like, oh, it's a great tune. I hope they don't sort of catch on to it.

Josh: And he has. Yeah. I mean, he's caught on to it. Yeah.

Tommy: And he thinks the song's called Knickers in Paris.

Josh: Yeah, sure. Which still, still. It's too close to Knickers in Paris. It's problematic.

Tommy: Yeah, it's way too close. And so I've really, like, he says, can you play that song? I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, Knickers in Paris. And at this point I've stopped. I'm like the fumbling parent who's like, oh, you're like, like knickers, like underwear, like your knickers you've got on now. Yeah, knickers.

Josh: Yeah. You're like, we can't play that song anymore.

Tommy: But I found the radio edit, which drops it in Paris. Like it's just, you know, it's like grabs the back end of something.

Josh: But dude, I remember as a kid there was a song, On Your Venus, your desire. Yeah.

Tommy: That's pretty tame, isn't it?

Josh: But I would always sing it, "On your penis." And I knew what the words were, but it would always get a reaction. Yeah. The song that I, that my mum gave birth to me playing. Oh, she knew this? I know this. Yes. Yes.

Tommy: Wow.

Josh: I mean, what was it?

Tommy: A record player back then?

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Was a—

Tommy: How would have they been playing that? Like through a—

Josh: On the radio.

Tommy: Oh, okay. So that's like her birth song was whatever played on Gold FM.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Wow.

Josh: It was Wild Thing. You make my heart sing.

Tommy: Are you serious?

Josh: Yeah. Do you know who we've lost?

Tommy: Who?

Josh: Stella. Lost her weeks ago. Yeah. Picked my nose yesterday.

Tommy: No, Stella. Stella couldn't handle the The lyrics. On the nose content.

Josh: Yes. And also singing.

Tommy: Well, that's interesting because— And so my thing with the— It's all about Amy and what she wants in that moment.

Josh: Yeah. I'm surprised, like, she doesn't seem like a real heavy rap kind of person. I would have thought Missy Higgins over Missy Elliott, you know, in regards to genre. No? No.

Tommy: I mean, she— Yeah, she loves all of that stuff too, but like, What else is on the playlist? Oh God, I'm just, I'm not, I can't, I could probably look.

Josh: Well, yeah, because you are logged into our account.

Tommy: We only have one Spotify account. How do you find artists, albums, playlists? Um, Go Time. Yeah, great. Here we go. Here we go. Um, Leon Bridges. Oh, he's beautiful. Alabama Shakes. Frank Ocean. Great. Uh, see, this is all the stuff I don't know. Agnes Obel. Sufjan Stevens, Fleetwood Mac. Yep. Neil Young. Yeah. Kanye West. More Kanye West. ASAP Rocky.

Josh: Do you think you're a music—

Tommy: Kendrick Lamar.

Josh: Oh my God. Humble.

Tommy: Sit down. Be humble.

Josh: That's nice.

Tommy: Well, it's a hard rap song.

Josh: Do you think you're a music guy?

Tommy: Like, I'm not like Amy.

Josh: Like, Amy's more of a music guy than you are.

Tommy: Well, she studied music at uni. Sure.

Josh: And so she's into it as well. Like, because I think of her as like someone who sings or whatever, but not like necessarily getting into artists. So she loves artists.

Tommy: Well, yeah, she knows a lot more than I do.

Josh: When was the last concert you two went to together?

Tommy: God, it was probably one for me. 360, the rapper.

Josh: Oh yeah.

Tommy: He's doing well now. He had a pretty severe drug addiction and then sort of—

Josh: It's like Panadol, wasn't it?

Tommy: Oh dude, he was smashing. Nurofen pluses, things that had codeine in it. But he was real bad. Like, he's come from a real dark place. He's just been starting to post a bunch on his Instagram and he started rapping again. But man, depression's a deep fucking hole. It's very hard to get your way back. He's just said that he went to Southland, which, uh, last couple of weeks ago.

Josh: I mean, what's that going to do to your mental health?

Tommy: I know, but for a guy that hadn't been out in 6 months, why go to Southland?

Josh: He's like, I randomly could go anywhere. Could go to the Dandenongs to go to see nature.

Tommy: Maybe it's like a—

Josh: Extreme. Yeah.

Tommy: And so, like, he went there and he said that someone came up to him and was like, mate, I fucking have gone through what you have, drug addiction. Like, and he said it was the sweetest thing.

Josh: Oh, that's nice.

Tommy: He's just got the courage to do it.

Josh: So, he's on social media or is that—

Tommy: He's on Instagram, but he disappeared for a long time. 360 Aussie rapper. I saw him when I was like 13 years old. Probably 12.

Josh: Has he been around that long?

Tommy: Well, he was, he was doing like freestyle rap battles as a young dude. And I remember seeing him at one in Melbourne, this thing called Run Amok. My mate Conspiracy Jimmy and I used to go to rap battles and I'd see people like, you know, it was like a real— it was the lad esche scene of today was back then graffiti artists dressed in TNs and—

Josh: Well, I did film something for Conspiracy Jimmy. When they were on set, it was at Revolver and there was a new clothing line. And I just remember filming and zooming in. And they'd say, when I say B-Town, you say clothing. B-Town clothing.

Tommy: I like it.

Josh: Yeah, it was. And there was a lot of sort of like bopping going on. I wonder if Jimmy remembers B-Town clothing.

Tommy: No, he does. He does.

Josh: Do you remember B-Town clothing?

Tommy: I remember the talk of it, but I never was at that event.

Josh: So I filmed. There's a New York Times video series. It's called Diary of a Song.

Tommy: Diary of a Song.

Josh: Yeah. So, it's like Taylor Swift talking about like deconstructing a song. And so, they get bits from like the producer, the artist who made the song Driver's Licence. It starts off like that.

Tommy: No. Out of— From Taylor Swift?

Josh: No, it's not a Taylor Swift. It's someone else. It's a—

Tommy: You call me home.

Josh: People are like—

Tommy: Oh, yesterday, me trying to sing to Amy, like, do exactly what you just did. And she's like, I don't get it. No.

Josh: So, the— I'm sure—

Tommy: Tone deaf.

Josh: I mean, this is— We're going to be absolutely trolled for doing this based on reading out lyrics. But I got my driver's licence last week, just like we always talked about because you were so excited for me to finally drive up to your house. Who's song? Her name's Olivia Rodrigo.

Tommy: Okay.

Josh: Ex-Disney.

Tommy: Oh, yeah. You've talked about this. This is the song you were reading out. That still lifts the episode.

Josh: You've just lost 2 more people. Who? Bella. But we probably gained some people. But yeah, so there was a great video of Olivia describing going through how it was all created, and she actually swears in the the song, which she thought that was cool. Like, you know, just trying to get rid of her sort of younger image. Oh yeah.

Tommy: Well, you got to shake it.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, how do you— I mean, this is not consideration for people that aren't famous, like shaking your younger image. Maybe there's something about shaking. Like, I've felt— Shaking off Greyson. Over the last 5 years. No, maybe. Yeah, 5 years. You shake the younger brother thing and you really start coming into yourself. You're coming into your own. You You're either doing something where you feel like you don't need to be treated as that younger brother needing to be lifted up. That's definitely a vibe.

Josh: I think that I always was pushing back on it. Like, I was— I've always acted like a 50-year-old. But I think that you, like, definitely, yeah, you've seen it with you over time, I think. Just like the expectations of, like, yeah, you're lifting up your brothers or the people around you.

Tommy: Well, it's a bit of an outclaws as a, as a younger sibling or as an individual to have other people looking after you, you know. Like, it's an outclaws to, to maybe not take the responsibility, or you can take more risks when you're younger. Yeah, because you've got more time, or you can see it that way. You can see how people would like, I'll have a crack at this, doesn't mean I'll make any money. But you and I having a conversation yesterday about How there's one part of your mind that wants to go and do the creative thing that makes no money, but then you're like, that's fucking going backwards at this point. And so how do you not get trapped into that?

Josh: Have you started listening to Derek Sivers audiobook?

Tommy: Listen to the first 4 minutes.

Josh: It's quite good. So Derek Sivers, he, I think he wrote a blog post initially called Hell Yeah or No, which is then turned into a book. He's turned it into a book. So he's got a bunch of He wrote a book called Everything You Want. He founded a business called CD Baby, which revolutionised the way that music artists would publish their music. So, it was always very hard to get, I think, I don't know if it's the same term, but, you know, like an ISBN number, which you get for like a book for authors.

Tommy: Didn't know that.

Josh: Yeah. So, there's like a, I think it's called an ISBN. Let's have a look what an ISBN number is.

Tommy: Um, not an ISDN.

Josh: No, no. So, yeah, an ISBN is, um, is like a database, uh, that has all books and stuff. And there's something like that for— if I type in music, like, there's a similar thing for music CDs. Yeah, ISBN, uh, for books, magazines, and CDs. Anyway, to get— to be able to get on to Amazon and to get onto iTunes and to sell, you would need to get an ISBN. And, um, CD Baby would make it easy so that indies could get access to that. And so Derek Sivers started this. He is a musician turned entrepreneur, sold it for, you know, $10 million or whatever, and then decided— he was living in the US— he's, um, completely moved to New Zealand and then moved to the UK and then has come back to New Zealand. But a very interesting—

Tommy: American dude.

Josh: Yes. Really interesting guy. Writes back to all of his emails.

Tommy: I mean, you've hit him up. Didn't you interview him or something?

Josh: So, when The Minimalists went to Auckland.

Tommy: That's right.

Josh: They interviewed Derek on stage. And so, I did an interview.

Tommy: Did you email him and say, hey, mate, it's a camera guy from the show.

Josh: He does. He writes back to— to everything. But he—

Tommy: So, his new book, Hell Yeah or No. Hell Yeah or No.

Josh: $15. You buy it on his website. You get a DRM-free copy, which is like digital rights management. So, you don't have to worry about it playing in Audible or whatever, which is actually, to be honest, sometimes the DRM-free thing is a little bit more confusing because it's like, oh, how do I actually play this? And so, it's like, oh, I've got to get VLC on my phone or— Is that what you do? I actually just played it directly off iCloud.

Tommy: Through the browser, the files thing.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Do you think it's a— Is he— So, he was asking himself that question, would you like to go with a publisher? And he said, hell no. Didn't say hell yes to that. So, he's doing it himself. Interesting. Interesting. Is there— What have you taken from— How long, how many minutes have you listened to it?

Josh: So, it goes for 2.5 hours or whatever.

Tommy: Which is digestible.

Josh: I like that. He wrote a book called Everything You Want, which was all about his journey with CD Baby. And he's just very aligned with thinking around things like social media or just all that sort of stuff. Yeah, I think I just like, like when, when I met him, he would have his computer and he would like use like DOS or some sort of old. He had no like a graphics, like graphical interface. He was coding to like open his computer and he would write his blog posts like coding.

Tommy: Does, um, is that before he made the money or, you know?

Josh: So, he made all the money and then when he moved to New Zealand, the only thing that he was really doing was he would journal for hours a day, just journaling, personal journals.

Tommy: Yeah. I mean, it's the— It's hard because a lot of people get trapped in the thought of what would I do if money wasn't the problem? It's like, and I think it's okay to say not what I'm doing right now.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Because you'd have resources to do something else. You'd have the means to focus on something else, which it won't fix.

Josh: It won't fix all your problems.

Tommy: Exactly. Exactly. But it's, it's, there is a plethora of books that are written by people who have had to go through this, the, the, that horrible moment of realizing, fuck, I'm not, I'm not the person I want to be. I'm so out of alignment. But these people who are writing these books have also, also managed to sell the business for a lot of money.

Josh: Yeah. Have you heard of George Soros?

Tommy: George Soros? He's a bad character.

Josh: Why do you say that?

Tommy: I don't know. Sounds like a—

Josh: Do you know anything about him or no?

Tommy: Give me a hint. I'm thinking of—

Josh: You probably are. Like, I could imagine some of the stuff.

Tommy: The billionaire dude?

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, he's up to no good. He's connected to old mate.

Josh: Is he?

Tommy: Old mate Epstein?

Josh: I don't know. I don't know. The— We watched a doco. So, there's the Jewish International Film Festival. He's a billionaire. So, Jewish International Film Festival, Lido, a bunch of different cinemas. I think there's a few cinemas involved playing films. And so we saw Soros on the weekend. Very sort of the, um, right conservative hate him. So like, um, Fox News, he's a guy who, uh, grew up during sort of the Holocaust stuff and was, um, you know, hiding in Budapest, uh, and he ended up making a heap of money through banks— oh, sorry, through, um, like, he was a hedge fund guy, but he, over the last 20 or so years, has been investing all of it into, um, all these different types of causes. So it's all— the interesting thing is that the causes Most of the ones that I would see, it's like, you know, it's things that are really positive. But then you also, you also see that the money only goes so far, or it sort of creates a world of its own.

Tommy: I just looked, is he the guy that is an owner of Moderna? They're the people that are creating one of the Vaccines for the—

Josh: They didn't talk about it in the doco, but, um, but it was just interesting because, yeah, he's hated by a bunch of people. And even Bri and I were listening to a guy next to us who's just fucking grumpy. He's like, I don't fucking like him, I don't like him. And then, you know, his wife's like, oh, don't be like that. Like, even after they're showing all the philanthropic things that he's done. Like, he would go into, uh, countries like Myanmar and all these places that have had huge amounts of turmoil and would try and provide support. Talking about, um, open societies, which is sort of a, another take of democracy. So it's like, rather than being too rigid in the democracy thing, it's just like, because he's a Jewish guy that's, you know, went through everything that was happening with the Nazis, he's like, I want to, you know, look after people that are minorities, basically.

Tommy: Well, you see the link, people who sway towards, you know, the conspiracy or the view on rich people who are doing good stuff, that it's then connected back to money. So, Bill Gates.

Josh: Yes. It's like, well— So, he's more— So, Soros is more controversial than Bill Gates. So he— because Soros has really aligned with some of these political things like, you know, like Black Lives Matter, all of this sort of stuff. A lot of the right-wing media like Fox News were, you know, talking about this is all of his money that's, that's creating all of this violence. And, and he would also, um, give more money to things than governments would. So, he would go into these places and actually be providing more. And so, the question is, are individuals like, what happens when individuals have that much power, whether they're doing things for good or not?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Just the impact on one individual trying to say what's right and what's wrong and where they're putting the money.

Tommy: Which can be a slippery slope massively.

Josh: Well, but also you can— his whole thing was like trusting people and then until they break the trust. And there was a bunch of issues with Myanmar with, uh, uh, what's it called, like cleansing, like, um, like religion, ethnic cleansing and things like that, which he was obviously completely against. But that stuff started happening, and so he not only gave a bunch of money but then ended up having to go in and try and fix all the issues. I don't know anything about it.

Tommy: What's hard is that you don't know what to believe, because if you type in right now, just Jeff Soros, George Soros, um, like, uh, George Soros conspiracy, you'll find— like, if you look for shit about him, you'll find it. If you look for positive, you'll find it. How do you know? It's like the royals, mate.

Josh: Yeah, but which—

Tommy: whose side— whose side do you want? I think it's not as easy as that. That's what people want. They want one side, not the nuance of it, because it's easier to digest and understand the one side. He's a bad dude. Yeah, he's a good guy.

Josh: Yeah, I think the, um, and also stuff like QAnon probably hasn't helped all of the conspiracies because, yeah, the sense that you got is, uh, so what people are angry about seems to be around, you know, if you are super conservative and you've got someone who is left-leaning that's putting heaps of money into these things that's against what you want the world to be or what you think it should be, you perceive him as a bad guy. Whereas like there is nuance. And I don't know about the— they didn't go into any of that dark stuff, but there was the whole— the start of the documentary was all about showing the Fox News stuff, showing his critics. And then once you see that, you like, you open with the doco thinking, oh, this guy's not great. And then you actually hear him speak and you see what he's actually doing. And it's, it's definitely a different perspective than you can see how quickly a little bit of information around this person's a bit dodgy, or, you know, Jeffrey Epstein. Like, all you have to say is Jeffrey Epstein nowadays and it's like, uh, okay. Because it's so—

Tommy: how annoyed are all the people that were connected to that guy but like just wanted a free plane? Yeah, just something so innocent. It's like, oh no. Like, Chris Tucker's caught up in that, the actor.

Josh: Oh yeah, what's he done?

Tommy: Well, he flew on the Lolita Express. And so, but like, this is just little bits of info that I'm gathering from my QAnon newsletter I get everywhere. No, I'm joking. You're on my Substack. No, but this is little bits that you see, and but then it forms an opinion about these people.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Imagine realizing, holy shit, fuck it. If you did get caught up, you're like, oh my God, they're on to— I'm now part of a conspiracy. Like some fucking full deep QAnon conspiracy. Like, that's next level shit. But maybe that, I mean, the one takeaway from Meg and Harry, the prince, the prince interview, they didn't look at the stuff. Like, she wasn't looking. So, maybe there's billionaires that just don't care. They're actually on a yacht.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And they're like, why would I care? Why would I bother?

Josh: He was saying, Soros was saying that he was pretty depressed at times with stuff.

Tommy: I thought money bought happiness.

Josh: Yeah, but there's also, I think that what people are funny about is any one individual thinking that they could have the amount of impact that he was having. So, it's like, oh, it requires, like most people don't think that they can change the world. And if you think that you can change the world, you are tweaked.

Tommy: Definitely.

Josh: And so, you look at people like Elon Musk and you're like, tweaked.

Tommy: Which is why he's got so far. Do you remember the— But there's probably more tweaked people that think something that they're totally not capable of. And you see someone like Elon Musk, he is a genius. Like, his brain works in a different way to the 99.99% of the population.

Josh: But he can also have flawed thinking. I think like the interesting thing about a bunch of these people is it's like you can be really on the money about certain things, but then other things being completely off. And that's like the hard thing is like if you are really good at maths, if you're a maths genius, it doesn't mean that you have a bunch of insights on all these other things. Whereas like, I think that we're so black and white that Uh, so say using the word genius, saying Elon Musk is a genius, it feels like it removes the nuance of Elon Musk is probably wrong a bunch of times, and there's probably a bunch of things where—

Tommy: If you're back to the gene, like, in its essence, because people like myself have referred to Kanye West as a genius, there's different levels of genius. You could maybe say he's like, he's his IQ is through the roof. Might not— I don't even know if it is, but it's, uh, Elon Musk, not Kanye West. But just in terms of classic level genius, someone who is book smart on many things and has embodied and experienced a lot of problems and solving of problems, which is how you get to something like SpaceX.

Josh: Have you heard of CRISPR?

Tommy: Yeah, the gene modifying. So you can modify your genes. Yeah, basically you can change the genetic makeup. You could go from a mesomorph to an endomorph, someone who puts on fat or takes away. But even like to cancer cells, and it's full fucking test tube science. Yeah, mate, that's like, it's, you know, I can imagine in my mind it's like a movie where they're fucking Modifying a little baby and it comes out and it's got blue eyes. That's what they're doing with it.

Josh: And so, Walter Isaacson, who— Is it Walter Isaacson? I think that's his name. He wrote the Steve Jobs biography. He— What else? He's written a bunch of like big biographies.

Tommy: I'm actually getting famous for writing other people's life stories.

Josh: Benjamin Franklin. He's done heaps. But Uh, he's got a new book out called Codebreaker, which is all about CRISPR. And apparently, um, you know, there's a, there's a bunch of legal, legal stuff in it. So who was the first person to, to come up with it? Who owns the patent?

Tommy: Um, and just also Bitcoin, no one knows, but there's an Aussie guy that was claiming it was him.

Josh: Yeah. And then if you think about it too, there's a, um, The— it's the moral stuff, right? Like, I—

Tommy: like, remember, should you be able to decide the colour of someone's eyes or the sex of your child?

Josh: Yeah. And then a bit like, it goes way deeper than that, right? Like, it can go, um, but even things like, rather than using vaccines, using things like genetic modification to be able to remove disease.

Tommy: Dude, the amount that you can already find out in 2021 about your unborn child, like chance of, chance of not being able to have children.

Josh: Oh, interesting.

Tommy: Like you can find that out.

Josh: Popularity on Instagram.

Tommy: Oh, yeah. No, I mean, I opted for a high YouTube subs over a Snapchat. Yeah.

Josh: Low on Pinterest, but who cares.

Tommy: If our next child comes out and she And YouTube's gone by then. She'll be fucking pissed.

Josh: The— but there was a docu— did you ever watch the documentary? There's a— there was a guy in San Francisco who was doing a bit of a backyard garage style job with the CRISPR stuff. He got in heaps of trouble. He was sort of saying that he was being sort of suppressed, but he was doing some experiments and the documentary had like people making animals change, like go glow. Like glow in the dark.

Tommy: What?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. I mean, I've heard some people talk about how they've probably got a human clone out there. Like, I mean, I don't even know how to fathom that they've managed to build, create a human in a test tube. Not to say it's out there in the world, but.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Didn't that happen in the cloning thing?

Josh: Do you remember, like, I feel like it was the '90s, we were kids. But it was the sheep or the lamb.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Do you remember that?

Tommy: If that was happening in the '90s, they're doing humans, dude.

Josh: Yeah. But the thing was that it was cloned lamb from stem cells.

Tommy: Jeez.

Josh: Dolly.

Tommy: Yeah. Dolly.

Josh: July 5th, 1996 to February 14th, 2003 was a female domestic sheep and the first mammal cloned from from an adult somatic cell using the process of nuclear transfer, obviously. Um, wow.

Tommy: I mean, this is the thing we don't know.

Josh: Lived 9 years. Is, is that, uh, is that good for a sheep? Actually, no, less than that.

Tommy: I've eaten younger.

Josh: Wait, wait, wait, 4 plus 7 years? 7 years?

Tommy: I've eaten younger. Isn't that just like lamb? Good piece of lamb just comes out. It's horrible. Yeah, to think about. But I mean, for instance, Is that, so connecting it to humans eating these animals, is it more humane to eat a lamb that has been created in a lab than one that was naturally created in a field?

Josh: Well, they're even talking about turning pigs into organ holders. So, it's like using CRISPR and stuff to build out organs.

Tommy: Inside of—

Josh: Inside the pigs that we then use.

Tommy: But is it? Answer the question.

Josh: Ask it again.

Tommy: Is it, uh, so you can't even remember? Is it more ethical to eat?

Josh: Yeah, I mean, that's very hard.

Tommy: Lamb that is built in a lab, made in a lab, than one that's, um, conceived naturally in a field? Yeah, it's a fucking hard question because it's— yeah, so many elements. If almost immediately I think my mind goes to the, the lab one because it didn't go through the natural process. But then it's like, this is the moral dilemma.

Josh: At what point does it become like an animal that's got all of the properties that say a vegan wouldn't like? Like, so, do vegans—

Tommy: Or consciousness. You know, something that feels pain.

Josh: So, if we grow the meat, just the meat, then would vegans eat it?

Tommy: Mate.

Josh: Some would, some wouldn't, I guess.

Tommy: I think they— Yeah, I think some would, some wouldn't. And so, Yeah, detaching the consciousness that this little animal experiences, whereas you could grow a slab.

Josh: Yes. Of just steak.

Tommy: If you grow a lamb leg.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: That didn't, wasn't attached to a little brain and all of that.

Josh: Strange, isn't it?

Tommy: It's so strange. But this is where we're going. And so, yeah, man.

Josh: I went down a rabbit hole on the Internet Archive. You probably saw it over the weekend.

Tommy: Yeah. What is that? How does one get to that part? Place. And how would one get there? Who would they speak to if they wanted to do a version?

Josh: What do you mean?

Tommy: Like, if you're just—

Josh: So, you just go to the Internet Archive.

Tommy: Which is— You talk about it like it's fucking Google. Most people don't know about it. You can just look back on the internet.

Josh: Yeah. If you just type in Internet Archive.

Tommy: Didn't know about until you, Josh.

Josh: And then you type in your name or a website if you've got a specific website. And so, I went through. So, I'd always been looking at joshjansen.com. That would be like when I was feeling nostalgic. But then I did just a general search on me. And went through all my old websites.

Tommy: And you're connected with George Soros, aren't you?

Josh: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so, I— Do you remember Postress?

Tommy: Postress?

Josh: So, Postress.

Tommy: So, you get a mistress through the post?

Josh: What is Postress? Postress was a blogging platform in the mid-2000s. Their big selling point was you can email to blog. So the idea was you would get— and we see this now, like our Asana or things like that have this technology built in— but they worked out a way of creating, uh, a secure, like, a, an email address that was unique to you that couldn't be easily spoofed, where if you wanted to post on your Postgres, you could send an email to your blog and it would automatically post.

Tommy: I mean, it's, it's If This Then That. I like it. I screenshot one of your posts. Can I just, can I, can we go down memory lane for a moment? Yeah, we've probably lost Stella and her mates. This is a, a blog post by Josh Jansen, uh, from January 7th, 2008. What's it called? Have a guess.

Josh: Uh, I can't remember. I don't know which one is it.

Tommy: Addiction.

Josh: Oh yeah, sure.

Tommy: A box of orange chocolate sticks and 3 Tim Tams later, I feel that I may be addicted to chocolate. I feel shit now. I used to be addicted to soft drink. Fat was the result of that, and I'm determined for this addiction to come, go, and not gain weight from it. If you go back a few blog posts, you'll see my Getting Ripped Challenge. Let's be honest, it was silly. I mean, Christmas, New Year, cheese platters, dip, chocolate pav, and the occasional lemon lime and bitters. It's not too late to recover though. I'm recharging my iPod as I write this to recharge the drive that was there only a few weeks earlier.

Josh: I am—

Tommy: because you went— I like it because you're recharging your iPad. You want to recharge iPod. You want to recharge the drive that was there a few weeks earlier. You're trying to be clever. It's cute. I'm really scared that I'll get fat again. I'm not letting that happen. It's not hard. Let's think. I just need 45 minutes a day to run and exercise. I was a member of KC Arc for over a year and probably haven't used the membership in 6 months, so fuck that. I can do the exercise around the neighbourhood and save $50 or $60 a month. Casey Ark has also pissed me off, charging me more as they don't know that I'm still concession, and they have to do— all they have to do is ask, as I'm still a student. Fuckers. Anyway, I'm off for a run. I'm pumped. Seriously, if I have a bottle of water, a good pair of running shoes, and an iPod, I can do it. Bye-bye. Stop being fat and doing— and do something. Kidding, but seriously. Do something, you fat shit. So this is almost like a note to self, but on a public platform.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And did anyone read them? Did you have anyone?

Josh: I don't know. It's pretty dark. It's very diary entry. Like, I think that, yeah, I would go very, very much a bit posthumous. Yeah. So what do you take from that? What is— I mean, I haven't changed much at all, have I? I'm very consistent. It's always obsessed about water, how much water I'm drinking. All I need is fucking— I'm dehydrated. Literally your whole Flashback was fighting with the gym.

Tommy: You lit— you could have come out and said that those were from today.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: That you could have legit said, I wrote these.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: On my weekend off.

Josh: But then there was around the same time, so that was on my blog. So it was like a WordPress blog. But then on Postgres around the same time, I think it would have been '09. Yeah. I said, why you need a blog. It seems that as Facebook becomes more ubiquitous, people are relying on it more and more. More as their only host for content. In this short audio post— so I had put an audio post, I wish I could hear the audio, but I didn't say—

Tommy: get it anymore.

Josh: No. Um, I give some of my concerns with relying solely on Facebook and some of the advantages of starting your own blog. Facebook has recently introduced an export function allowing users to export all their content from the website, but is it enough to keep you from creating your own unique identity online? So yeah, I mean, I've been very consistent in that regard, critical of social media. I did this audio thing. There used to be a thing, um, which I would use, a service called TweetMike, and it was like imagine Twitter, but it was all audio. And so it would go, it'd be, it would connect up to Do you remember? Did you ever use Twitter? Like back in the day, early days?

Tommy: I've still got it. Okay. It's about as much.

Josh: So, you remember Twitpic? So, you never used to be able to actually host photos, videos, anything like that on Twitter. You'd have to use a third-party.

Tommy: And it have the link to it. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Twitpic. Yeah, yeah.

Josh: I remember that. Twitpic or whatever. But yeah, there was one called TweetMike, which you would record a tweet. So, I would just do a 5-minute rambling, basically like a podcast. And then you would click send. And would go to Twitter and people would listen to the audio.

Tommy: Interesting.

Josh: But yeah, I mean, this— After you reading the social media thing, the Facebook, the need a blog, you and I were talking. And I think the thing is that you see the patterns, you see that I've been pretty consistent on the problem throughout the whole, like, for the last 15 years.

Tommy: Oh, 100%. Which you always like to point out, the consistency thing. It's like, well, because you can't say I'm fucking crazy but I've been consistent. I've always said you're a fuckhead. No, you just don't listen to your own advice because you—

Josh: that's literally— well, I think it's the, it's the constant struggle, it's the tension. Um, and so for some people they'll figure it out really quickly and others they won't. I think, um, Yeah, I'm getting closer and closer to a version— like, I am— think about how many times I've gotten off social media. Think about— and so even, you know, versions of that, of just back and forth, it's like, it's highly addictive. Like, I'll watch— like, I probably watched maybe, um, 5 hours over the weekend on people quitting social media.

Tommy: So just YouTube videos, um, Surely you have to take action after that, otherwise you don't get the 5 hours back.

Josh: No, well, the thing is, it's all building, it's building the hypothesis. So it's like building the thinking, um, and it's— but the same thing happens every— like, these, these, um, uh, these people, they all have the same thing. It's like, oh yeah, I went back on and then I got off again. Like, it's a highly addictive thing.

Tommy: It's crack. Yeah, but, uh, social media is crack.

Josh: Yeah, but deleted it off my, um, phone.

Tommy: That's good.

Josh: And, uh, definitely it's a— I had one of those weekends where it's like my perfect weekend, and I just— I obviously call bullshit. Like, you know, it's a perfect weekend. I've charged my Kindle, my Kindles, or, you know, my working. I, um, sharpened my pencils. So, when I'm reading, I'm like, when I'm— As I read, like, how to read water, I can underline bits. I've got my— Nearly bought a new journal to do daily writing.

Tommy: You got one upstairs. It's great. The one that I complimented the paper.

Josh: Well, yeah. So, Bri got me a really nice one in a brown leather holder thing. And I nearly said, I was like, I started in that one in December. I wrote in it once. I used to do this as a kid. I need it to be fresh. I used to do this. I would go get an exercise. At least exercise books are like $0.99. And so as a kid, if I would have an idea, I would say, Mum, can I have an exercise book? And she would get me one. I would write one idea. It's like I've got a whole Moleskine at home, which is me analysing The Simpsons.

Tommy: Oh, that's right. But it's— you've got like 4 pages used or something.

Josh: Yes, but I can't switch it from an analysis of all The Simpsons episodes.

Tommy: How do you go to— Yeah, yeah, I know. To ripping out— I've tried. I've literally ripped out pages of a Moleskine and it fucked up the back end.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I lost pages out the back. Yeah, it was a nightmare. I get you. But how do you call your bullshit? Because that's exactly what you're just stating right now is the bullshit is I know that what's easier is going to the shop to buy the Moleskine to feel like it's the new year. That's the trap of New Year. January 1st. Fuck, I'm fired up for January 1st. But then 2 weeks later. And so I wonder if there's a— it's not like rejection therapy, it's like leaning in, like going, like I go towards the pain in everything where it's like the reason I don't want to write in this book is because it's not clear. Can I start writing in this book to prove myself wrong?

Josh: Like the other thing is what is the other option? So I think there's definitely I think a lot of people can relate to this, and I think that potentially why I trigger people is because I talk. There's a part of me which is just like, shut the fuck up, right? Like heaps. Like, that's, that's my default is, Josh, you've said this all before. Um, but if you like, there's a, there's a— so for instance, if someone tries to quit smoking 20 times and they do it on the 20th time, that's the process that they had to go through.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so the, the thing is that you could— if you tried to stop smoking 19 times and then called it on your bullshit, the calling of the bullshit would be like, oh, this quitting doesn't work. And so you would stop. And so if you get like closer and closer every single time to getting to the point of clarity with it That's cool.

Tommy: It's a good analogy. The tricky bit is that you don't even know if it's true or not. You know, maybe there, maybe there is more, more in the quitting smoking thing. So they're calling bullshit on why I don't actually stick at it. There's more reasons there. Yeah, they need addressing, which isn't to say cut out the quitting smoking. Yeah, isn't to say I'll keep smoking. So it's, I won't keep using social media. There's there's some other stuff in there. There's something in the way. And I—

Josh: and yeah, smoking, I guess, doesn't have the— the thing with this, the social media thing, is that the people that I was watching, it's like, oh, I'm a photographer, and people say that the, uh, Instagram is your CV, and now I don't have it anymore. Um, and so it's a little bit more complex. One of the things I liked about Derek Sivers, um, in Hell Yeah or No is he talks about, um, criticism and how he wrote this, um, blog post about switching, I think, from like PHP to Ruby on Rails, like the types of, type of coding he was doing. He did a blog post, didn't have that many followers at the time, just writes his opinions on what he was thinking, goes to bed, wakes up, and it's on every tech blog and people are saying he's a fucking idiot and that he's, he has no idea about coding And what he realised was he was like having a reaction to it, just like, oh my God, like, look at what these people are saying about me. Yeah. And then what he realised was it's like, no, what people are talking about and to a paper cutout version of me, it's not me. And so there is something with all of these things that we share with the social media stuff or the like, any sort of criticism is not actually about us. It's about the character that we've performed online. And so I think that doing stuff in— even though this is like a very small version of a public eye— knowing that any comment, any feedback is not about us personally, but a version that we've done, which is part of the the reason why we do it. It's like we do a version so it provokes— like maybe from someone from the conversation, from this conversation says, oh, you know what, like they can relate to it about the social media thing and be like, no, I don't need to do this, or, oh, maybe I'll cheque out Derek Sivers and go on their own journey. Um, but I think that that's been something that I've been battling with, is it's like, uh, shut— like shutting up is an interesting option. Mm.

Tommy: Which is one strategy.

Josh: Yeah. But then, yeah, but it doesn't necessarily look like what's on the other. Shutting up is the same idea of I'm not going to do this thing because it's hard or I'm not going to do this thing.

Tommy: No, I mean, you've said it before. Shutting up could be I'm not going to talk to people about it because I want to have a win for myself, which is no one knows that I'm doing it. Therefore, there's no accolades, there's no praise. It's like there's— it's not reliant on anyone other than me. Yeah, not even my partner.

Josh: And I think that that's a hard thing. I was like writing out, like doing some daily journaling, and then realised of like, I can't help but think, who's going to read this? And like, what do they care about? And, or maybe this could be used for some other thing, or maybe I could create this into a, into a website or a video series.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: Oh, this could be a podcast. And so, like, that is— you can see how that just becomes a thing. If you're a creator, that can become a thing of like, oh, well, like, every— looking at every nook and cranny is an opportunity to create content rather than actually using it as the thing that's going to help you quietly.

Tommy: Is it a writer who is spell checking and doing their grammar as they go versus the writer who just goes? And comes back to it. So, it's like the per— you getting, you know, the allure of an idea that makes you fall down that hole mentally is pulling your focus away somewhat. It could be productive, otherwise it could be completely counterproductive to the thing you want to do. And so, it's like, what's the outcome?

Josh: I think that we're like hooked on outcomes. Like, I think that and trying to avoid being hooked on outcomes and just enjoying the process is a lot.

Tommy: It's harder than you think. Yeah, it's fucking tricky.

Josh: Anyway, uh, hi@thedailytalkshow.com is the email. Thank you to Yass. She sent through, um, a documentary recommendation that I'm gonna cheque out. I will report back.

Tommy: Watch the Biggie documentary too on Netflix. Did you listen to Biggie growing up?

Josh: No.

Tommy: No, don't listen. Don't watch it. Bad idea.

Josh: Okay, it's The Daily Talk Show. Have a good one, guys.

Tommy: See you guys.