#967 – Authenticity & Integrity With Pete Shepherd/
- February 25, 2021
Pete Shepherd joins us! We chat about problem solving, ambition and experiment, Pete’s goals, feeling melancholy, and mental health from COVID.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
- Telling yourself a story
- Problem solving
- Working with artists in New York
- Ambition and experiment
- Pete’s goals
- Communicating negative feelings
- Recklessness in entrepreneurship
- Sick days working for yourself
- What’s Pete’s consumption
- Blind spots revealed from the pandemic
- COVID generation and mental health
- The Long And The Short Of It podcast
Email us: firstname.lastname@example.org
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:00] Very low barrier to get into the growing squad. We've committed to do the daily talk show for 10 years. I had guys put it in the calendar. Just like to check the temperature in the room. I told you my squeegee story.
It's the daily talk shop. So I've done 167 and we got paid Shepard back in the building. This is great. None of this fake internet stuff. I'm just checking framing. Yeah. You
Peter Shepherd: [00:00:35] were appropriately questions too.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:37] I think this is, so this is, um, first guest back in the studio. You're not even a guest.
Peter Shepherd: [00:00:43] Yeah. I don't know if that's a couple of it or you're staying.
Why are you here?
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:54] Great to have you in the building, man. I always love your energy. Uh, and I feel like it's at a time where if you've listened to the last couple of days, Josh's energy has been a little bit flat and a bit negative, which Europe I've never been around you
Peter Shepherd: [00:01:11] and being negative. We expended a bit of emotional labor earlier in the week.
Explaining what's happening in the business and sharing pretty vulnerably for what an hour and a half or so.
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:19] It was a long, we weren't even planning on doing it on that. Like we literally said, Oh, maybe we should mention it. And then we just do 20. Yeah. Yeah. It just happened. 90 minutes later. What have you been up to?
What's going on? Just, you know,
Peter Shepherd: [00:01:31] working still from home contemplating the coworking space. We were just talking yeah. About this before, where the zoom zooming a lot. It's still lots of zoom. Yeah. There's still lots of podcasting, still lots of conferences and workshops and speaking, and coaching and all that.
So much the same really. I realized the other day that has been basically 12 months of us doing this from home. Well, for me from home, yeah. And previously I'd told myself a story. There was not way I could work from home. I tried it for a week. About three years ago. I was like, I could just work from home, try it for a week.
That was an absolutely not, there's no way I could ever do that. And I went to a coworking space that was almost four years ago. And so it's wild to think that we've been doing it. I've been doing it for a year. My partner Tracy has been working for a giant company at home for a year. And I mean, everyone's doing this, so it's, it's, it's crazy.
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:17] It can be done. Yeah, it can be. Yeah. I mean, there's. It's all about the story, right? Because there's probably some big business that are telling the story of if we can't. This is fact. Yeah. And how much, how much are you listening to your own stories? Peter Shepherd. Ooh.
Peter Shepherd: [00:02:33] Uh, quite a lot. I think. But I'm always trying to like
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:37] probably, I mean, we all listen to it.
We all tell if you're telling yourself a story. Yeah. You you've actually you're embodying it, but how much are you stopping and identifying? Ah, this is just the storyteller. Oh, all the
Peter Shepherd: [00:02:49] time. Yeah. I think that's why you practice mindfulness with the Sam Harris app. I do the same thing, but like often you find, I don't know if you find this, but you'll catch yourself saying something or coming up with an excuse for something like, I just did like, Oh, I couldn't possibly have worked from home.
And then you go, wait a minute. Is that true? Or is it just the story I'm telling myself? And in that case, clearly a story I'm telling myself. And so the latest one that I'm trying to figure out and trying to unpack for myself is tofu is better than tuna. What's better. That was some pre-show. Was it quicker to just quickly fry tofu, four minutes, each time or tuna?
The problem with tuner, I find firstly, the smell. Secondly, you need a couple of teens and then you've got the tins and it's a whole situation.
Tommy Jackett: [00:03:29] Why do you need a couple of tins? Because I eat
Peter Shepherd: [00:03:31] quite a bit. I'm quite a large
Tommy Jackett: [00:03:33] pin, sorry, two tins. Yeah. Session
Peter Shepherd: [00:03:36] to get enough protein TJ, you would know to get enough protein.
so I would need, I would need to, yeah, it was accurate. And
Tommy Jackett: [00:03:47] so, um, do you have to watch how much, uh, metals or whatever, you know how they say that that's got some thing in it? Yeah, I've heard that about Gina, but
Peter Shepherd: [00:03:54] I
Tommy Jackett: [00:03:54] usually people to eat you and aren't thinking like that it's usually the guys that never eat tuna.
What were you contemplating or was that really what you were going to say? No, the contemplation
Peter Shepherd: [00:04:03] was the coworking space. It's been the, the story I now can tell myself is, Oh, I can work from home. Full-time I think everyone is sort of proven that over the last 12 months, But it's just because you can, does, does that mean you should.
And so now I'm looking at, well, what's the benefit of going into an office twice a week or three times a week, or back to full time. And I think everyone's going through this, like questioning of what's working and what's not, and what benefit is there to all in or half in or so I'm just trying to get some clarity
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:33] on that for myself yet.
Hi, to call out someone else's story that you're obviously seeing is. You know, it's not working for them. Like if I was to call that Josh or you to call them, Hey, Josh, you mean you're a coach. So it's like a coach is usually asking questions versus telling advice. But as if you don't want to, I think he just don't want to say it.
Peter Shepherd: [00:04:58] Yeah. Is that a story you're telling yourself? Which with the right client, I think you can just ask her that. Do you think that's the story you're telling yourself or is that a story you're telling yourself? But I think with coaching in particular, it's can I get them to realize that without telling them that.
Because it's more powerful, more memorable if they realize, Oh, I'm telling myself a story then versus if I tell them, I think that the example I always draw on just for my own sanity and mental model is I used to really like math or maths spend too much time with Americans, math or maths, or
Tommy Jackett: [00:05:30] it's not maths.
Peter Shepherd: [00:05:34] No, no. The subject is cool.
Tommy Jackett: [00:05:37] It's clear. Our maps is good though. I'm
Peter Shepherd: [00:05:40] like tuna and maths tutor. I'm really revealing all my quirks here, tuner and mass and tofu yet. And so I used to enjoy like a really solid algebra equation where you spend all this time trying to figure out next step, next step, next step.
And sometimes you spend half a page trying to figure out the answer to this problem. And then you get the answer and you flip to the back of the textbook and you look at the answer and you go, Oh yes, I've got it. Right. And it's like quite satisfying. Versus if someone next to you just said, Oh TJ, the answer is 12.
We like, Oh, I mean, thanks. But I didn't learn anything. Nothing's memorable. I didn't practice the process of figuring that out. And I think coaching is the same. I think the conversation we're having at the moment is the same way. It's more empowering to the individual. It's more memorable. It's more helpful if they figure that out themselves that, Oh, I'm telling myself a story.
Tommy Jackett: [00:06:27] Yeah. Are you using it at all now?
Peter Shepherd: [00:06:31] Aren't you in this metaphor? It's been super useful for this metaphor, because I would
Tommy Jackett: [00:06:35] love to, like, I did well with algebra, like you're right. Oh, you're right. That's the only time, like, I think that's when no Jabra skills. Yeah. I think that was when they maybe introduced him.
Like I've got to have, there was one test. I got a hundred percent with math. That's it? Right? Yeah. Well done. Thank you. Never forget, but I can't imagine. So the idea being, how would you explain algebra to someone if a kid asks, Hey, Pete, what's
Peter Shepherd: [00:07:01] algebra, I guess it's, I mean, it's a mathematical way to solve a problem.
It would be. And so you'd have to
Tommy Jackett: [00:07:09] have letters and stuff. Yeah. They
Peter Shepherd: [00:07:11] represent X was often what it was.
Tommy Jackett: [00:07:13] Yeah. And so it would be like if X plus Y. And so then all you'd have to do right. Am I getting this right? You would just have to work what X was worth.
Peter Shepherd: [00:07:23] Exactly. So it was often the, there was an equation, but one of the numbers was represented by the letter X.
And you had to figure out what that X was and the way you did that was by following the method and putting this here and dividing hearing times and brackets involved were involved. For sure. So you
Tommy Jackett: [00:07:39] were genuinely stimulated by
Peter Shepherd: [00:07:41] that. I love problem solving. Yeah. I really like problem solving. I mean,
Tommy Jackett: [00:07:45] Working out how many pubs you can get to in one night is also very helpful.
Problem-solving yeah, but it it's interesting. Cause I, I didn't even know what that was, what algebra was. I didn't do year. Right. But it's, I'm cheated. You're right. I did. You're right. I didn't really hear I did you didn't do you, were I, did it present? Present love presents? Um, no, but the you understanding that you liked that or connecting that to coaching.
Hm. Is it, what are some other examples of life where you're problem solving that you don't like? Because Providence can be fucking annoying? Or is that a story? Do you just see it as like, like why is a kid stimulated by algebra? Yeah.
Peter Shepherd: [00:08:31] Then I think there's something in figuring it out. I don't know if you see this with Bodhi, but like figuring out how to walk for the first time or figuring out how to open the fridge for the first time.
There's something in like. I'm curious about how things work and I want to figure out how they work. And there's a, like a reward mechanism in our brain that rewards us when we figure that thing out. So I think it's probably as simple as that it's algebra is one example of it, but really it's being curious enough to try and understand how things work and then the dopamine hit.
We get rewarded for that and see like, Oh, I want to do, yeah. Got it.
Tommy Jackett: [00:09:05] How many adults and not seeking that because it's painful, right? Problem-solving is painful. Yeah. But then they're just avoiding problems. Doesn't mean you don't experience problems. It just means that you aren't willing to stimulate your mind in a way that's
Peter Shepherd: [00:09:22] going to solve well, and I wonder too, like if the way to get better at solving problems is to practice solving problems.
I wonder if you avoid them for so long when they come up, that it just becomes harder and harder for you to even be able to cope with that because you've not practiced because you've. Avoided it's like you
Tommy Jackett: [00:09:38] buy a set being stronger than you try set your bicep on this problem. The procrastination too. No, I don't, but my triceps are stronger because I can do heavy bench, but I can't like don't kill too much chins.
Like it's all, you know, but what about finding problems? Like one thing that TJ and I have spoken about is that. I have found that I'll go from problem to problem the problem guy for that. He's like, so the thing is you get something sorted and then you're like, okay, I've sorted that out now. I'm TJ sipping out of the straw.
Peter Shepherd: [00:10:19] That's fine. So thank you for 1.2 lady cup.
Tommy Jackett: [00:10:21] Yeah. It's the Wendy's cup. Thank you. All right. Uh, yeah, so. Yeah, I guess problem solving, like that's a criticism of men a lot, which is like, we want to solve every single problem, our own others, Everett. Yeah, definitely others,
Peter Shepherd: [00:10:38] mainly others.
Tommy Jackett: [00:10:40] It's more fun. You can actually just go home necessarily, but it's not the best thing like trying to solve every problem isn't necessarily your job.
Peter Shepherd: [00:10:51] at all. And in fact, it's, I think back to that example, it's not helpful to solve other people's problems. I mean, it can be, if, if someone comes to you and says, Hey, JJ, could you help me solve this problem? Or whiteboard some solutions to this problem? That's like a creative brainstorming exercise.
That's helpful. But if someone's just sharing something they're working on or something they're struggling with, and we just default to problem solving mode, they might just be like, I'm not, I don't want you problems. I'm just here. I just want to share. Yeah. So there's a, there's definitely a danger in it.
Tommy Jackett: [00:11:18] muscle in. Act it's constantly being activated in trying to solve problems because there is a version of dropping it in Sam Harris's app, waking up there is a moment where he often says, and I've done this outside of the practice. Um, drop everything right now. Yeah. So you dropped your big cup now that you just, there's nothing to solve in the next 10 minutes.
Yeah. And when you're fucking in a Headspace of solving and problem, you know, It's liberating. How good is it when he says that? Because it is, it's just a moment where you can, you're like, Oh my God. Yeah. I even find in bed when mind's racing. When I just like, imagine it nothing things and the issue. Yeah.
And then you're like, wow, there it is. There it's there for us to access, but we just, the muscle is so an ad biceps are so big in the problem solving
Peter Shepherd: [00:12:10] space, but, and then he often follows it up by saying, what if this is enough? Yeah. Just this. And you sort of like. Oh, yeah. I mean, everything's okay for that.
Like for that moment, at least until we start thinking of the next thing that you learned about Hmm. You're
Tommy Jackett: [00:12:23] working with a bunch of artists that are in New York. What, what is it like at the moment? Pretty
Peter Shepherd: [00:12:29] brutal. Yeah. I mean, still even 12 months later. So they don't so theater artists in particular, they don't have stages to perform on.
So they've been innovating and figuring things out for the last 12 months. Many of them have. Quite geniously figured out how to leverage their skills or creativity and empathy and storytelling to transition into full-time work or into freelancing. So a lot of them are, you know, making lemonade, but underneath all of that is this like anxiety and kind of existential.
Tension that you can feel, which is like, when are we going to be able to do the thing that we actually want to do?
Tommy Jackett: [00:13:03] So if they're an actor that's, you know, gotten paid to do a musical or something. Yeah. Are they getting paid anything at the moment
Peter Shepherd: [00:13:13] overnight, they got taken back to nothing except for their equivalent of job keeper.
Which, what is that comparison? Ours was terrible. And then. Prior to the election. There was a period of time where it had ended and Trump decided not to reinstate it until after the election. And so there was a period of time where they were literally getting nothing for, for, yeah. And then they'd lost their entire Korea.
Tommy Jackett: [00:13:40] moved back to family? Like, are they, yeah. Like, what is it? What does it look like? I can imagine a lot of people losing their like leases because like they can't
Peter Shepherd: [00:13:48] afford it. Most of the friends that I have in New York in this industry have left New York, which is weird, and many of them are living back with their parents, which they'll gladly admit is like weird and uncomfortable and not where they want to be.
And, you know, that'd be kind of our age and. Yeah. I just often think, wow. Imagine if that happened to us, what happened to you? You just couldn't do the thing that you wanted to do. And so you went and lived with your parents, hopped on zoom with a bunch of other artists and tried to figure it out together, which they're doing and they're innovating.
And it's incredible. Like the work that my, my good friend and cohost Jen Waldman is doing is amazing. And I also know it's, it's not necessarily what they want to be doing. They don't want to be living in this world where their industry doesn't exist. So it's. It's brutal. It's brutal. I imagine that travel hospitality, those kinds of industries, like.
It's been a brutal 12 months.
Tommy Jackett: [00:14:37] Well, New York, especially it's yeah. Thousands of thousands of dollars a month to live.
Peter Shepherd: [00:14:43] Well, this is the thing you start doing the math and you're like, why am I bothering some of the algebra doing some algebra, algebra comes into it. I said, the handshakes where's you solve X, which is how much I need to live an isolate in a tiny shoe box.
Why wouldn't you go home and save some money and live at your parents? Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:15:00] I mean, even travel, all of those sorts of things completely.
Peter Shepherd: [00:15:04] Out of the window. Well, that's the weird thing about America though, is. A lot of people were still traveling around. Yeah. Well, not a lot. I don't know that for sure. But domestically, like in order to get from New York, for example, to your family home, many of them had to get on a plane and the prospect of getting on a plane for us here in Australia, we just physically haven't been able to do it.
So it's, it's sort of this weird dichotomy or this weird other, other world almost where things are worse for them and domestically, they kind of had more free, have more freedoms than so it's
Tommy Jackett: [00:15:33] we don't even have so. You come from a small country town and you go to one of our big cities. It's doable. Maybe not for everybody, but you can go and earn an okay wage and get an okay rental.
Whereas those places, uh, okay. Rental is fucking expensive. A shitty rental is expensive and shit. Yeah. And then, so it's like the opportunity was all in the city where we don't have a place that there's a lot of opportunities in the big cities. Yeah.
Peter Shepherd: [00:16:03] Well, a lot of those people love going there because it's the place where no, one's there to just be stagnant.
Yeah, everyone goes there to progress their career or their project or the thing they're working on, which is awesome if that's what you're doing. But if you're just there and no one's doing that. You do come to that point, we were like, well, what's the point in this? Why are we paying for it?
Tommy Jackett: [00:16:21] And so then on that ambition, there's obviously a lot of ambition.
If you're going to go to New York city and give it a crack, you need to be really ambitious. Totally. What have you noticed about ambitious people during this time? Are there. People who do a bunch of things, but what's the opposite. Is there anyone that's like now I'm fucking done.
Peter Shepherd: [00:16:42] Totally. I think I've observed some take that ambition and just put it somewhere else.
So Jen tolerant turned her entire business into a virtual studio where she is now expanding her audience to be helping people, artists from right around the world, as opposed to just those in New York city. So her ambition just changed directions slightly, but then you get some that are like, well, I'm out, I'm tapping out.
I'm just going to wait 12 months. Some of them have. Either just going back home and living with their parents and it may be doing some freelancing on the side. Others are just going, I'll just take a 12 month pause and go and live in a different state and work a full-time job. And they're just, uh, you know, working in an office and have like entirely tapped out of that industry for now.
But I suspect even when it comes back, they'll start to re-engage with them. So who's,
Tommy Jackett: [00:17:25] who's the happiest out of those sort of, lots of you notice that any sort of. What he's fishing for is if Josh taps out, is he going to be real happy?
Peter Shepherd: [00:17:35] Yeah, I don't think there's a clear answer either way. I think I've, I've witnessed people that have flipped their ambition get so overwhelmed by the fact that they've had to flip their ambition and I'm like, why do I have to do this to just do the thing I want to do?
And like, get so overwhelmed and burnt out. And I've witnessed people who, uh, back in, they found, Oh, corporate economy, interesting for a few months. And now they're like, Oh my God. Like I'm a creative person. I did not want to be in corporate and then, you know, borderline miserable. So it's yeah. There's no, I don't think there's any real winner.
Tommy Jackett: [00:18:05] When the going gets tough, the tough get going. My mom used to say that as a mom, knowing gets tough, the tough gig. That's a story mum. Yeah. Yeah. It's a convenient story. If you've got something hard you're facing that's when you ramp up to action. Yeah. I don't think it's necessarily true because when the going gets tough.
It can also be horrible and you don't like that. , it's tough. They can get very, very horrible. And you just want to quit. Yeah. But that's, and so what are the stories of the people who have switched it up? Like, what are you identifying? What is the, what's the. Cause we do stories to make ourselves feel comfortable or get through tough stuff.
What is, um, the story that is getting people through? Do you think? I think
Peter Shepherd: [00:18:58] like short-term experiments story has been very common and very helpful. Okay. I'm going to try this on for 12 months or now maybe 18 months and frame that as an experiment for myself, learn a bit about the corporate world. Maybe save some money because I'm getting a full-time salary and, and kind of just frame it as an experiment.
That's been probably the most helpful and productive story I've seen. But even within that, you still have moments of course, where you're like, well, I'm sick of this experiment, this experiment. So
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:23] what is future thinking look like? So I can imagine with coaching, people are talking about their ambitions, what they're going to do next, where they're wanting to head, how do you goal set, uh, for a world where we don't know what the future necessarily it looks like?
Peter Shepherd: [00:19:39] a great question. Super tricky. I think the most important part of goal setting is to accept that given circumstances, except that reality and. Our reality at the moment is we don't know. So it's like this weird non-answer to your question, which is you have to set a goal or set goals with the acknowledgement that you can't necessarily be sure if they're even possible.
So it's like, I don't know if that's, what
Tommy Jackett: [00:20:01] are your goals? Because when we S you know, uh, a year or so ago, uh, you were talking about, you know, you had your TEDx
Peter Shepherd: [00:20:09] talk. Yeah. It was done in New York. Remember that
Tommy Jackett: [00:20:12] we had it booked in and everything. And so, yeah, because it's a huge amounts of change in that regard.
Even the idea of doing, you know, speaking events, what does a goal look like for you in this present moment? I think.
Peter Shepherd: [00:20:26] I try and frame goals more through the lens of something that is more of a process or a practice or unaffected by the environment. So my goal really at the moment is to do meaningful work with interesting people, which is vague enough and not reliant enough on an environmental circumstance or of coronavirus that I think I could be able to do that regardless of.
What happens and that I've, I've found personally quite helpful. So for me, meaningful work with interesting people at the moment that looks like coaching and teaching and speaking, and podcasting and talking to you guys. But in a year's time, if none of that's possible, then I have to be able to hopefully figure out what that means for me in that moment.
So it gives me a little bit of an out, which I actually think is a good thing. Cause I'm not my identity isn't caught up in. In coaching, my identity isn't caught up in podcasting or speaking or all. It's sort of like my identity is to try and do meaningful work with interesting people. And that at the moment it looks like these things.
Tommy Jackett: [00:21:22] What do you do when you wake up and you don't
Peter Shepherd: [00:21:24] feel good? I try and go for, I think when in doubt get fresh air has been something I've written down a few times in the last few, in the last few weeks, in the last few months. And is that
Tommy Jackett: [00:21:34] instinctive like, so when you're feeling that way, do you want to go outside?
Peter Shepherd: [00:21:37] no. No. I just know. I, I try and remember that I'll feel better as a result of it, which is sometimes true. But sometimes I just feel crap. Like I'm a human being, like the rest of us some days you just don't feel good. And I, my mom always used the word melancholy growing up. I clearly quite like that word where some days I just have a melancholy day and go back to problem solving.
Usually what I try and do is like, okay, I have to solve this problem. I feel myself being melancholy. I need to go for a walk. I need to go for a swim. I need to get fresh air. And then often it market to lunchtime or whatever, and I don't feel that much better. And I'm like, you know what, maybe today is just a melancholy day.
Maybe that's just, that's just what today is. And
Tommy Jackett: [00:22:15] so do you then communicate that to the people around you? So do you, are you aware that if you having, so I feel like sometimes I come at it with it, like I've got to sh I'm not feeling well, so I'm going, but I'm, so I need to add an extra 10% of positive energy to every interaction, just to.
Maybe have some sort of normal, but then there's the other one, which is like, has been the last couple of days, which is like, I'm not in a good mood. And so I'm going to fuck everyone.
Peter Shepherd: [00:22:47] What a monster monster now I think, sorry,
Tommy Jackett: [00:22:50] which one you you're doing that? I think that I try to do the 10%, but I, I see the, I see the appeal.
I see the appeal in. No. I say looking at the negative in everything. So just saying that, and so it's, it's maybe not even, it's not being, uh, like, yeah, I should clarify, because there are fuckwits that actually live their life, just doing that and not being aware and all that. So, yeah, but there's an element, which is like, I think, like talking to Bri, I'll go to the extreme end of like, Oh, I'm done.
I'm fuck it. Like, I just, like, I feel like I need to get out. Yeah. The dooms day. Like not even that there's truth to everything, but it's just like, Oh, what happened? They find got a really, really negative. Yeah. What is ever like, I need to be lifted up. So maybe if I go just say everything that's on my mind, then there can be a good solution.
Peter Shepherd: [00:23:52] I think personally, I would confide in certain people. I've done this with you and you and I walk, I might just say I'm feeling like shit today. I would happily have that conversation with you. I will happily talk to Tracy, my partner about how I'm feeling but melancholy today. And we might talk it out a little bit.
The line I draw it for me is in client work. They don't need to know is that's how I've approached. It is. I think that, you know, Seth Godin talks really interestingly about the distinction between authenticity and integrity and, and as a client, that's paying you good money asking you to be authentic in that moment to be like, I feel like shit.
I'm not really sure. I want to coach you today. Probably not. They want you to be consistent and act with an integrity with the relationship that you have. So for me, I'm, I'm pretty good at being able to park it for the client call and the client interaction. And the things that I have to do, or I might even try and move some of the meetings recognizing I'm not in a great head space, I'll try and push them back.
And then confide in the people that I'm close enough to where it doesn't necessarily impact the work or the relationship. So, and so we're often my punching bag, Josh as well. And I'm happy to bet.
Tommy Jackett: [00:24:54] Um, it's an honor, the, but so on that set that, you know, using that example talks about the authentic pilot, the a, you don't want a pilot to feel like, ah, I don't want to fly the plane today and that they fucking,
Peter Shepherd: [00:25:09] you like that, but he doesn't need to authentically share that.
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:12] Exactly. Yeah. So, uh, but then this is where I think it's a little bit different, like with the podcast. And this is, I think what I, this is what the struggle. I know that when we're on a client shoes, right, you can get showing a certain, like, you know, you're acting as if you're acting as if you are the director.
No, like that's one thing I've worked at is everyone has their own story around, you know, their own insecurities about that. You know, how they do things, but. You know, we are all acting as these different things in the context of the podcast. I don't think it is our job to not reveal that. So for instance, that chat that we had on Monday, yeah.
We wouldn't have had within the context of a client or the client. Yeah. And so this is the fucked up thing too. We have clients that listen to the podcast super. And so. I'm very confused. Coach him through it, please. So you give him a bit coach. I mean, it's a, it's a really cold TJ. You're fucking postures pissing me off.
And he's triceps. Look at him. I said that in another episode this week. Yeah. Posture. Isn't always a sign of, you might just enjoy myself. I actually am really comfy right now. Okay. Look at my arms crossed. It's nice. Okay. You look pretty content. Yeah. I've just got a good elbow lean and um, and I like listening to Pete's voice your problems.
Peter Shepherd: [00:26:41] Should we try to bring it down a bit on that? Well, no, I think that
Tommy Jackett: [00:26:46] I love this. I love a big cup,
Peter Shepherd: [00:26:49] Tommy. It touched someone on like that and he's like, you know, saying to someone. Can you be funny? I was like, Oh my gosh,
Tommy Jackett: [00:26:56] if you could, I would
Peter Shepherd: [00:26:56] ask, let me see if it comes out naturally. Why can't you be funny?
Tommy Jackett: [00:27:02] he's the algebra guy.
Peter Shepherd: [00:27:04] That's funny. Algebra.
Tommy Jackett: [00:27:06] That's funny. We could actually, yeah, the algebra guy. That could be in unique.
Peter Shepherd: [00:27:14] the sad thing is I'm sure there's people listen that a far better at algebra the may. I just had a pretty rudimentary understanding of it. Yeah. So I think your dilemma is a really real and interesting one, which is what happens when, who you are in the podcast requires a level of sharing the shit, sharing the hard part, sharing the melancholy, whereas in the client relationships that built into that agreement.
Is that you show up in a certain way as the director. And so it doesn't require you to share that necessarily. However, the commitment you've made to the audience and each other to do a podcast every single day and to replicate from what you've told me, and this is why I love it to replicate almost a friendship and the conversations you have as friends trying to figure stuff out built into that is the humanity of when you have a shit day.
So it's almost like, yeah, it's consistent for you. In this environment to share that, whereas in a client circumstance, it doesn't quite fit the context,
Tommy Jackett: [00:28:12] but maybe there's some of the confusion is, is it appropriate or some of the questions around why you even said that is, you know, well, like I guess reality stars had this issue, which is like, it seems like it's sort of changed now where I feel like.
In the early two thousands, it was reality stars feeling like they're showing everything. And then social media came around and said, Oh, you think that's showing everything here? Like, we'll just give everyone the ability to live, stream everything. But now reality shows have become so ridiculous in style.
Yeah. They're like it is together in such a way that. You not like it, the feedback from the stars or, you know, the talent within the reality show is, well, this isn't reality. So how is, how am I going to be represented from a character?
Peter Shepherd: [00:29:08] Yeah. I think there's like an interesting thing of the, it's almost like the Josh, the podcasts are, is probably different to Josh, the director who is, I still think probably different to Joshua walks with Pete.
I think there are probably things that we talk about that you wouldn't necessarily bring on the podcast, but that's not. You being inauthentic it's you just, it's almost like recognizing the context. What am I what's consistent for me to share. Yeah. And I think the business that the podcast you did the other day was amazing.
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:32] wince though? Did you have moments of like, I wouldn't have
Peter Shepherd: [00:29:35] said that. No. I actually had moments of. I respect and admire your ability to articulate that out loud, knowing it's going to be heard by many others. I've no doubt those conversations are being had between you. Nah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:51] Yeah. Now that you say it like that, I mean, I thought that when you listened to it, I thought the line was 10.
Not 20. We had paid it back. If you wondering my parents.
Peter Shepherd: [00:30:01] Yeah. Yeah. And I think based
Tommy Jackett: [00:30:02] on you saying that to your parents, like when are we getting that? We transferred it on Monday. We did it,
Peter Shepherd: [00:30:09] but it takes a bit to admit that I think there are plenty listeners out there that have probably been through a version of that of, Oh, maybe I have to go back home and live with my parents.
Like the people we've been talking about, or maybe you have to take a loan off my parents. No, I wouldn't tell anyone. Yeah. Yeah,
Tommy Jackett: [00:30:22] no, I definitely wouldn't tell you when the bit for us, I think is like, People's stories around what it means to be reckless. And so for us, like you listened to Ilan mask. Well, he's made telling the story.
What's his name? Jason Calacanis Jason Calacanis best mates with Elon Musk have been for many, many years before he was the famous Ilan mass. They used to go out together and Jason recognize who's this guy he's this week in startups guy. Yeah. It's a real, amazing story about. Uh, Tesla are about to go under, like, and in, in he's like, man Ilan, I heard that it's like a couple of weeks of payroll you've got left.
It's like, nah, it's like a couple of days. Yeah. Like that's reckless for a publicly listed company of that scale. And so. That's where did you share
Peter Shepherd: [00:31:11] that publicly? Or just to public
Tommy Jackett: [00:31:14] story here? He has gone on to say, because it was right at the moment of releasing the type S I think it was, or, yeah, I think the stock, it was 2008.
Like it was, you know, the financial crisis, the stock was getting shorted. Yeah. Yeah. And they said five ways that that was saying, you know, five weeks runway. And he's like, it's actually two weeks. But where the story is really interesting is they're talking about the model S saw clay versions of it, size clay version of the top and, uh, on, on, uh, Elan's Blackberry and Jason Calacanis said, ah, Um, you know, do you need, do you need some money, like out, like, I can probably give you 2 million, but that's really like the max and it was only going to extend the runway for an extra couple of days.
And he said, no, it's all fine. Jason goes home, says to his wife, this is what's happening. And he had asked Ilan, how much do you think the mandalas will cost you set off? I think I can do it for 50 grand. He's like, if you can do it for 50 grand, you know, you'll change the game anyway. So Jason gets his checkbook writes out $50,000 check.
Does another one sends it to Tesla? Yeah, few weeks later it gets, um, cashed the check. And, uh, when the model S came out. He gets an email notification saying you are order number zero zero zero zero zero one. Wow. story than any of ours. So he's number one, he's galleries, but then Ilan is massively turned around, but I think that's the.
Top, that's talking about the richest, one of the reasons guys in the world, but then, so that is ultimately reckless company that side's getting so low. Well, I think the other thing too is we, uh, we put entrepreneurs on pedestals. We do all of this sort of stuff, but then yeah. Uh, for some reason we have different standards around the friends and family.
So we've, if a friend or family member did something, an entrepreneur, it would be, you know, you would be, uh, pushed down and said, you know, you're reckless an entrepreneur. Doesn't, it's exciting and innovative. And
Peter Shepherd: [00:33:17] all of those, I've had this conversation with so many people in the last few weeks of. I've been asked by some of these people that we've talked about that have lost their jobs and they're trying to freelance and they've asked me, how do you think about it?
How do you go about it? Things for you seem to like, you seem to have a really good balance of it. And I'm like, Oh, it's like, it's really hard. This is not, I'm not coasting at all. I've borrowed money before. Like this is not something that is super safe, super secure. Super easy. Yes. I do some work with Seth Goden and his team and yes, I have a bunch of clients in America.
But there are months and weeks and days where I'm like, what that, what am I doing? None of this works. None of this makes any
Tommy Jackett: [00:33:53] sense. And that's what I get into with the braid. Like that's the, I need to, in those moments, be able to say, and she's seen it enough times that she's like, ah, you don't mean that I can fucking do this
Peter Shepherd: [00:34:05] time.
Tommy Jackett: [00:34:07] It's just like, And you need to do it because if, like, for me, that's the coping mechanism. So for me, how I operate is break everything down and then rebuild it in my head with my own. So by breaking it down and rebuilding my head, I need to make the decision. Right then and there. So, so for instance, think about if you feel like feeling shit on a, on a day, right?
The reason I feel shit is because I don't feel like I'm in control of the situation. And the reason I don't feel like in control is not because other people are controlling me. It's because I've made decisions previous that I'm not happy about. And so. What I've worked out, I think is that what I need to do is make the opposite decision and insight, break it all down, say it out loud and then say, okay, I'm going to choose to do this.
I'm going to choose to do that. And, and so everyone's fine. Yeah. It's all good. But you build it back up to a point where I'm like doing it. The exact same thing, but I'm now doing it within my terms. Right?
Peter Shepherd: [00:35:10] Well, I mean, that's why people go to therapists. That's why people hire coaches. That's why people have support networks like you and I talk about this sort of stuff.
It's, it's so underrated to say this stuff out loud. Yeah. Even in a confined, like private setting. And again, what I admired about that podcast, you guys did was not only did you say it out loud to one another, but you set it so that other people could hear and learn and benefit from that, that. This is not, it's not, it's not easy at all.
It would be easier for us to all go and work in a corporate job and get a paycheck and superannuation and not have to worry about paying ourselves there, but that's not the path that we chose and you're right. I think we totally put entrepreneurs and freelancers on pedestals. Think. Wow. That's it such an easy lifestyle.
You can take a Friday afternoon off. I wish I could do that. Well, the sacrifice of that is I'm going to work all day Saturday because it's my business, or I'm not going to have annual leave for four years because I don't feel like I've earned it because it's my business. Like it's, it's hard. Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:04] During sick days.
Yeah. Do you really think like, like you just, the funny thing is when you have a business, you just, um, when you feel sick, you say I'm not sick. Like I'm not sick enough to get sick Friday night and recover by Monday morning. And that's the whole thing it's like, I haven't like, I don't think there's been times where TJ and I have been sick enough to say, Oh no, we can't come work because you can't just say I'm sick.
Therefore, I can forget about it all. It's still sitting at home.
Peter Shepherd: [00:36:35] In fact, you feel worse cause you're sitting at home feeling sick and you're just thinking about it. You're thinking about it. You're thinking about
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:39] that. Nothing's removed. I remember a time where it's like, if you're working for someone, I mean, there's even job, like certain jobs where you still like radio was always that for me, which they, you couldn't take a sick day because people were, you knew that you fucked everything for everyone, right?
Like it was a, it was a domino effect. It's just. Jules land effects. You just couldn't do it. But even, um, uh, uh, today Tony announced that she was stopping doing a show for, uh, for awhile. And that happened organically through a conversation that we had before recording it, where she's like fucking burnt out and working in radio.
It is that thing of like, it doesn't. Like the expectation is that you're working on the weekends and you're doing stuff and you're doing these big, like, um, I think we have a bit of balance here around that. Like, we're really good at like, not, um, if we were doing something on the weekend, there's time in low, there's all those sorts of things.
Whereas you work in radio that doesn't exist, you know, you do. Yeah. Your weekend, like you work on the weekends when I'm in my head, what I say is if I'm not feeling well and I I'd say, fuck, if I was working for someone I'd take today off. Yeah. And then I'd just go and then I have to do the day, but it makes me feel a bit better thinking that I definitely find it in today.
Peter Shepherd: [00:38:01] Absolutely not, but it's a choice we chose. We chose exactly.
Tommy Jackett: [00:38:06] Ah, you feeling hydrated?
Peter Shepherd: [00:38:08] I am I've. I think I've feels like I've drank a liter, but I've looked like I've only drank about a hundred meals. It's great. It's a, it's a really get through one of these per episode. Like it's a lot of water. That's a good
Tommy Jackett: [00:38:19] idea now.
Well, I'm deaf, I'm probably having three to four a day. Uh, sorry. Yeah, that's at least three to four liters a day, which is very good. I, I don't know. Do you have reflux?
Peter Shepherd: [00:38:30] Oh, acid reflux. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I get into gestion. Is that the same thing? Yeah. Sometimes where I'll wake up in the middle of the night, the heartburn
Tommy Jackett: [00:38:38] you've got a bigger esophagus than the
Peter Shepherd: [00:38:39] average person.
I don't know. I have no idea. How do I find that out? I don't
Tommy Jackett: [00:38:43] know. I just feel like if you've got a big torso, I'm pretty tall. Yeah. But is it in the torso or the legs? I
Peter Shepherd: [00:38:49] think it might be an, a legs pretty long theme is I've been told, famous one of those being legs, PICA legs, a leg bone with ibogaine. Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:38:57] You're very poetic between the melancholy and the fucking famous, I mean the melancholy it's funny. Yeah. No, but the melancholy thing, if, um, if you said to me I'm feeling a bit more in Cali, I'll say
Peter Shepherd: [00:39:15] sort of like flat, sad.
Tommy Jackett: [00:39:17] That's what I know. I know.
Peter Shepherd: [00:39:19] I think of it. I think like black and white, you know, like black and white, a bit dull bit gray, sad bit flat, a bit low.
Tommy Jackett: [00:39:24] No, I, yeah, I get the meaning, but I'm still just the word it's
Peter Shepherd: [00:39:31] it feels more rigid. My mum was like very good with words. She's quite a, quite a group teach English language. She was an English teacher. So I grew up with these words in my head that I really like your dad's a math teacher. It was a message. So no wonder my dad had a maths
Tommy Jackett: [00:39:45] and English chubby over algebra.
He's in the James. Yeah, well, it's in
Peter Shepherd: [00:39:51] the GP. It is in the jail.
Tommy Jackett: [00:39:55] Um, and so like, what are you excited about at the moment? Like, what are you actually wake up and get
Peter Shepherd: [00:40:00] pumped about in this moment? I'm excited about this crazy notion that Tracy and I are going to be away for five days from Saturday, till Thursday. We're going camping at Mallacoota pending, changing in the next four, four days could have had some fires.
Mallacoota is right on the East coast of Victoria. Beautiful. Yeah. It's meant to be incredible. I've never been Tracy used to go there every year for a family holiday. So we've booked a campsite for five nights camping. I'm sure. There's toilets. Yeah. And swim camp. I'll take my laptop, but, um, th the plan is to not, not work.
Yeah. And it feels like such a novelty,
Tommy Jackett: [00:40:40] bringing a battery for phone charging or the has, has power.
Peter Shepherd: [00:40:43] I think this power, well Tracy's mom and stepdad have got a house like an Airbnb they're renting nearby. Okay, which is great. So we're in a capsule, but we can walk and use power and shower and all that sort of stuff.
Great. That was a good run power and shower. I get triple M special,
Tommy Jackett: [00:40:59] the power, power, and channel your news in under four minutes. Apparently. Yeah.
Peter Shepherd: [00:41:05] Jump in the shower. It's an hour of palette or something like
Tommy Jackett: [00:41:07] that. We believe in four minutes, showers
Peter Shepherd: [00:41:09] here. I'm
Tommy Jackett: [00:41:12] excited about that. One came to me. The radio stations are doing now is they're putting the podcasts up.
As the shows are going. So I I'm subscribed to Marty. Sheargold on triple M and by six 30 in the morning, they've already uploaded. Like they start the show at six, they've already uploaded their first segment. That's like the tone you use
Peter Shepherd: [00:41:33] also. So they're recording 20 minutes behind.
Tommy Jackett: [00:41:36] Yeah. They just like, I guess I don't have it.
I guess if it's a five minute bit, the very first talk break or whatever within the show, they're just cutting it up and bringing in. And I was just impressed. And I've noticed that a bunch of. Shows are doing that out, right? Yeah. What's your consumption? Like what are you listening to? Are you on the audio book or podcast
Peter Shepherd: [00:41:59] realm at the time?
Yeah, so I, you know, right. I also late between the two, depending on what mood I'm in. That's another good word for it. I, I am podcasts listening at the moment and doing a lot of reading. Tracy and I have replaced watching, well, we don't watch Netflix or TV instead. We'll read, which has been really
Tommy Jackett: [00:42:15] good.
Awesome. How long have you had that for
Peter Shepherd: [00:42:18] a little while now? I've been living at herbal her place since December, and we do it pretty much every night since then, which has been, that's been a great habit. Huge. How much are you? That's I'm reading so much more. Than I used to. Yeah. It's incredibly blown away by that.
TJ. I think I've read, I think I'm up to nine books for the
Tommy Jackett: [00:42:37] choice. You have the choice to Josh. I know, but just watch the city. Yeah. Now fucking Bree loves maps, but breeze wait, was that maths or
Peter Shepherd: [00:42:46] maths? Math doing math.
Tommy Jackett: [00:42:52] reading some stupid about turning, you know, Turning things into a little nickname. Yeah. Can I just say that Bri, she works. So her thing is like, she worked so hard during the day. Yeah. That she really antigens, um, that by the end of the day, she's like, let me just unwind. We don't need to watch this story.
Yeah. It is a great story. I also say, why not? But everyone works differently. Don't make, cause I feel like, you know, I use the time, watch something, but even sleeping. I said to, um, uh, when I was having my blow up, I said to Barry, I was like, ah, you know, like I don't even, like when I go to bed early, you get upset.
And so it's like, I can't even control bedtime control anything anymore.
Peter Shepherd: [00:43:52] I love reading. Yeah. So ratings good. And listening wise podcasts I've been getting right around armchair expert. Hi, thanks. I think I've lied to the party. I only discovered it this year. Yeah. And so I've been binging, all sorts of episodes of that podcast, which I think is it's such a good podcast and I've been dabbling here and there listening to some clubhouse rooms, which is, I find it's like either extreme.
Either. You're like, how awesome is this that you get to listen to like the person who wrote that book or start that business to a live Q and a, or you go into a room and go, this is so horrendous. I don't want to be these people. Yeah. So I've been dabbling a little bit in audio clubhouse, but mainly armchair expert is awesome.
Yeah, I'm right into it. And of course the
Tommy Jackett: [00:44:36] daily talk show. Thank you. Um, there's a, there's a podcast. Uh, have you had a fresh air? No. So it's an NPR it's been around for years and years and years, Terry. Uh, grouse, I think is a, is her name Terry Gross Terry grass. And can't remember, but, um, she has an episode with Sasha Baron Cohen.
Oh, wow. On the latest episode. It's very good. It'd be Epic. Yeah. Just hearing about, um, in the, have you seen the bore at the latest Borat film? So you know about the Giuliani scene, who's
Peter Shepherd: [00:45:08] the lawyer?
Tommy Jackett: [00:45:10] Um, because Terry says to, um, Sasha it's like, I heard that. Your, um, your release forms are quite convoluted and all that.
So think that's how you do it. And I thought straight away thought it's like, from a legal perspective, I remember working at Invitae like a tech company. They spent so much time the lawyers about simplifying language, because if you want any contract to hold up in court, it needs to be easily understood.
Easily interpreted. Yeah. So you can't, you can't just fucking hide shit and make it hard. He's like, yeah, no, like it's not convoluted at all. Also with the Giuliani thing. So there's hidden cameras and stuff. He had to sign a release form that said that in the actual release form, it said that that would be used hidden cameras.
Wow. And you just did it. Didn't read it, read it a student, read it. I mean, uh, also Sasha Baron Cohen talks about there's a scene where he goes to an anti mask slash pro gun rally event. It was a combo. Uh, yeah. And he, um, It was hectic. Uh, but that, who was saying how they found out who he was, he was doing, he was sort of playing his bore out character.
And, uh, people started chasing him. And the, a guy actually pulled out was reached for his gun and sashes, a body guard grabbed the guy's hand and said, he's not worth it. And they, they didn't share that him or whatever, but he ended up Sasha ended up in an ambulance, like, uh, with his legs up against the door to hold it shut while as people were trying to fucking get it.
And I'm like, God, it's been very full on that's
Peter Shepherd: [00:46:50] nuts. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of contracts. Yeah. Force majeure. What's that force measure force majeure. I haven't heard of it. Well, it's this clause I used to do a bit of contracting when I was working in corporates and force majeure was this clause that you go for French food on Friday, basically false measure.
Basically you include pretty much included in most contracts is my understanding. It's a French and it's so it protects against it's like a literal definition, I think is it protects against acts of God. Oh, yeah. Essentially like catastrophes and pandemics. And so in the last 12 months it's been like the clause that everyone is now being like, Oh, this is actually super handy.
We are protected because of forced
Tommy Jackett: [00:47:33] muscle. Oh yeah. You could, you could imagine, um, insurance companies just trying to get out of a bunch of stuff they already do for everything isn't that their business model have claims put through it's that's that's upsetting. Yeah. You know, the hundredth year and one in a hundred years, every a hundred years is something like a pandemic.
Yeah. Is there, like, what's been the biggest thing that's changed in your mind during all this pandemic? Like, what's the thing that, like, I feel like this has revealed a bunch of blind spots for people. What was that though? Do you think they know? I think. So there's obviously like the gratitude piece on like, uh, how good things were.
Yeah. Like that's an obvious one is that blind living in New York can't actually afford it. And as soon as you can't make any money, you've done no blind blind spot. My interpretation would almost be like, um, not realizing how good it is, like being on stage and performing for people. And then just being like how much you rely on that stuff or rely on your cast mates or those types of things.
Peter Shepherd: [00:48:41] Yeah. I feel like it's almost like Mr. Gratitude for what we had. Yeah. I think there's a, the realization of how good things were and the realization of how good things are for us in Australia. I feel like we're just so lucky that we're in Australia in the last 12 months. And, and then just little things, like I.
Lived a life that was probably more chaotic than it needed to be and not like an crazy chaotic way. But in a, I did this exercise with Jen, where we went back and looked at our calendars from January last year. And it was like, you know, one day I was in Collingwood or then in the city and in South Melbourne and the back to Elwood.
And then the next day I had like 12 hours of meetings and then the next day, and it was, I looked at that calendar. I was like, that is so anxiety inducing. Now you're lucky if you, you know, well, for a while you weren't allowed to leave the 5k
Tommy Jackett: [00:49:28] radius. I mean, calendars are a tricky subject with us. Okay.
Peter Shepherd: [00:49:33] Well, just cause a scratch a wound.
Tommy Jackett: [00:49:35] What are we fed?
Peter Shepherd: [00:49:37] 2021. So go back to January 20, 20, 25th,
Tommy Jackett: [00:49:40] the 26th of Jan, just
Peter Shepherd: [00:49:42] wild, wild
Tommy Jackett: [00:49:43] exercise. So Jan, Oh my God. I've got all of Joshua's. I've got your calendar in my fucking, Oh really? Bre FFG Guzman and Gomez walk. Pete
Tommy Jackett: [00:49:56] Oh, here we go. This is mine. Got your calendar.
Turn it off. Here we go, January. So, uh, I've got masons in to turn off everything. Hang on. Sure. This is my probably should just do the big calendar view. Here you go. I can swipe back. Right. So Jen, the fuck. Do I have all your gen 2020? Is that lots in
Peter Shepherd: [00:50:14] there? Does it make you kind of anxious and overwhelmed hiking with Luke
Tommy Jackett: [00:50:19] the beach hats?
Shout out? Yeah, I think Luke, our nine, I look, we went hiking with my muscle. How are you? Rising stuff. Selects for country road. Edit. Are you going on? Um, production office to her where we did the video of the studio tour. That was on a January eight, um, arc with Periscope as me, um, seven 30. Yeah, we did an early morning on the night, Thursday, the ninth.
That was a good walk. That one. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. That day I, um, had we had Simon Taylor on the, on the show.
Peter Shepherd: [00:50:56] Yeah. So I think the realization I had was I was. Filling my calendar was so much stuff because I, I don't know. I, I thought I had to, or I didn't even, I was doing it unconsciously. I was telling myself a story I needed to, and I think the simplification that has happened over the last 12 months for everyone's life has been really hard.
And the opportunity I've seen is okay. So what, like, what does it look like to craft your calendar a bit more intentionally? Now you don't have to go all of these different places.
Tommy Jackett: [00:51:26] I mean, I was reading an article in the Philippines kids under 14 have not left their house for a year because of COVID.
Yeah. That basically so that they, because there's a lot of intergenerational living. So a huge amount of, um, kids live with grandparents who are in the high risk, in the high and the high. But imagine that imagine being imagined being under 14 and the actual law. So no malls, no anything. You actually, you have to stay at your home for the entire time.
If you are under the age. Yeah. It's so dangerous. Like the school send kids away at that age to, you know, like. It's private school in like, recognize these kids are going to be fucking wild and you're nice. Yeah. Like eight weeks. It's like nothing like in the Bush. Yeah. It's more just like life skills.
Like. I was at Rouse naughty at 14. That's outrageous. Yeah. Wonder about the, um, yeah, the COVID generation or whatever it is. What's all this going to look like. What's the, you see, like, I think that even the mental health thing, when he's talking about the mental health thing, I think that I almost like.
Didn't connect with it as much. Like you almost like. Yeah. Like as in, uh, the mental health ramifications, like it's a little, like for whatever reason, I didn't really connect with it, but you actually see now every, every, every person I speak to. Uh, having D even if you're doing better, like it, this is the common thing that everyone's saying.
It's like, you know, there's two camps, people who did remarkably worse, you know, and that's lower socioeconomic. Unfortunately, that's, what's happening. It's like, if you're poor, you become poorer. And if you are well off, you become richer. Um, but the thing is that even that aside, it feels like there's a huge amount of people who.
Uh, struggling. Um, and so, and this is just the beginning. I don't think that it's us opening up. It's like, you can have a great weekend. You can be all open up and get to do whatever you want on the weekend. Yeah. But you can fucking guarantee that the Monday, Monday is going to be a big shock to the system.
If you haven't fucking been social. Yeah. For months. Yeah. And then yeah. Having all these social interactions.
Peter Shepherd: [00:53:58] Yeah. Yeah. I was talking, I actually was talking to my therapist about this, where I, I was sharing with her that I was surprised how tired and anxious I became when we got out of lockdown, because I was like, This is the thing we all wanted.
Wasn't it? Like, I don't understand. We've gone back to what we're used to and, you know, she sort of helped me unpack a little bit of like, it's not even, it's not that you've gone back. It's actually, it's all new again. So it's like going, it's like that first couple of weeks where we went into lockdown, when it was like, anxieties are high, what is going on?
Uncertainty? You just went through that again, to come out of lockdown and then you go into a snap snap, five day lockdown and you kind of go through a mini version of again, and then we come out of the snap fight and you're into it again. So it's like it's. Yeah. I think that the cost of mental, the cost on our mental health, even though those of us who are privileged enough to be doing okay, is still
Tommy Jackett: [00:54:51] huge.
Yeah. Yeah. There's rich people that have got serious fucking mental health problems. Yeah. There's happy people that experienced severe mental health, you know, like yeah. Doesn't discriminate. No
Peter Shepherd: [00:55:04] melancholy. It's real. It's fat and melancholy.
Tommy Jackett: [00:55:07] Yeah. All the episode melancholy, but it's, uh, it's a
Peter Shepherd: [00:55:10] bit melancholy.
It's been a pretty upbeat episode. So it's good
Tommy Jackett: [00:55:14] to have you back in. Thank you for coming in. And, um, how's the podcast
Peter Shepherd: [00:55:17] going, going? Well, we're up to, I think one 26, one 27. That's great. We had our first interview ever with Seth, which was fun. It was great. Yeah. And other than that, we're just chipping away.
One a week. Still
Tommy Jackett: [00:55:28] has to stop. No, none. Any plans to. Keep it going
Peter Shepherd: [00:55:32] now. We love it. Yeah. I mean, the, we love doing it even if no one was listening. And I feel like that's a really important part of a process or a practice or a creative endeavor is we decided to do it once a week, regardless of what would happen.
I'd be like you guys once a day. And, and so the decision has already been made. You just keep showing up and doing it each week.
Tommy Jackett: [00:55:55] And we're still here. We're still here. Yep. 967 episodes later. What's the plan for a thousand. I haven't worked it out. My put that pressure on us or, sorry. So what do you think we should do?
That's a good point. I'm not sure. Married to anything, right. Sheldon's gotta be involved in some way. Be part of it. Okay. You should be a part of it. That'd be nice. We've got Ryan by the sound of it now, but I think that we could do one idea that I had. Can we draw it in? Yeah, go, go. Sorry. A thousand minutes.
Peter Shepherd: [00:56:25] How long has that divide
Tommy Jackett: [00:56:26] it by 61 hour. Can you work it around? Yeah. Use some
Peter Shepherd: [00:56:30] algebra. Is it 10 hours and 400 minutes, but one hour 40 would be 60 minutes. So you just add a zero to that. So if you do
Tommy Jackett: [00:56:38] 400, then 400 minutes, it was like 12 hours. Yeah, it's probably long, but if we're in thousand divided by 60.
16.6, six, 16 hours, six that day. So it's an, I mean it's, but it's nowhere near 24 hours. And so it could be a nicer. Yeah, I did think about like $20. You can do a thousand seconds. We had to take annual leave after the
Peter Shepherd: [00:57:02] thousand seconds.
Tommy Jackett: [00:57:04] What is a thousand seconds? So that would be
Peter Shepherd: [00:57:06] 61.6 hours. Wouldn't it.
Tommy Jackett: [00:57:08] Oh, yeah.
That's Oh, that's nice. This is a long app. No, but I think the, um, so the appeal, I think that part of it is with all of the, I don't know if I'm mentally ready to go on stage and do some bad performance. I
Peter Shepherd: [00:57:22] dunno. I dunno. We want you to be allowed to, when is it it's gonna be in a month or so
Tommy Jackett: [00:57:25] April. Okay. I just
it'd be nice to do something, but if we could do it, like I'd love to still have grumps watching live or whatever. So if there was like a live stream, this setup's comfy, this is a crazy, if, you know, we could have every hour just having guests on, we could do a bunch of remote stuff and just fun with it. I feel like this good one to choose day, I think.
Yeah. Um, Good day Tuesday, we'll knock out the weight and should we choose to choose one every hour until we should ourselves
Peter Shepherd: [00:57:59] a thousand pieces of chewy?
Tommy Jackett: [00:58:02] What about, yeah. Yeah. There's something in the number 1000 calories. Every hour
you get 8,000
Peter Shepherd: [00:58:12] thousand steps. A thousand guests. If you spoke to a thousand people on the show,
Tommy Jackett: [00:58:18] that's a lot, that's a lot of people thousand. You can only do. You can only get food from a thousand meters away, a thousand dollars worth of food and a thousand bucks here. We thought we
Peter Shepherd: [00:58:29] were
Tommy Jackett: [00:58:30] going to do that for episode 500 he's then the challenge, uh, it's grandiose, it's a big number.
Most people will never do a thousand podcasts. Um, I'll probably do what hardly anything that other people do in my life. It's a weird one that why we've even done that, to be honest, probably lots of people will do a thousand podcasts now. Like not, everyone's going to have a podcast. That is the point where it stopped.
They had a few little breaks, but. I never
Peter Shepherd: [00:59:00] thought, no, it wasn't that there was some research. It was a few years ago. Now it was like the average number of episodes per podcast in the library. It was something like eight. Yeah. So you've got all these podcasts that start and don't get past episodes.
Tommy Jackett: [00:59:13] Josh speaking got to 11.
Yeah. 10 at 10 break at ten seven. But there's also like in the last little while this Monday's episode, even what, what, you know, the transition from. Uh, a month or so of just us talking shit, because we were going through some stuff and we didn't really want to go there, but it's also like, you see how it's you just can't like not stopping is the thing that you need to do.
And so if it's at night, but then you want to celebrate it, it's like, uh, Like the bloke that doesn't want to fucking celebrate his birthday would be kind of lost it. I think we
Peter Shepherd: [00:59:53] could definitely do deal, but seriously,
Tommy Jackett: [00:59:56] there's something fun in the studio live strained. Mm. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, pretty sure.
But thank you
Peter Shepherd: [01:00:03] for coming on the show. So having me good
Tommy Jackett: [01:00:04] to be here. You can go. Thanks. Hi, the daily talk, show.com. If you want to send us an email, otherwise we'll see you tomorrow. Have a good one guys.