#869 – Andy Lee on Audience, Niches & Iterating/
- October 1, 2020
Andy Lee is back! We chat about how podcasting has impacted Hamish and Andy’s relationship, Andy’s love for golf, growing audiences, and the need to iterate to find something that works.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
- The impact of podcasting on Hamish & Andy’s relationship
- Instagram & adopting TikTok
- Andy’s love of golf
- Trump, cheating & meditation in golf
- S-Bends & a dead rat
- Escapism & reflecting serious topics in content
- Audience, broadcast & niches
- Old content & in-jokes
- Growing audiences
- Iterating & finding something that works
- Radio in 2020
Email us: firstname.lastname@example.org
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business, and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:00] It's The Daily Talk Show episode 869.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:08] Andy Tom Lee, back to The Daily Talk Show.
Andy Lee: [00:00:12] Wow, 869. Ham and I will try to work out how many shows we've done in our life the other day, and you guys are really tearing it down. I'm worried.
Well, we think, and look at sketchy because we, we don't have all our university radio shows, but were just trying to roughly do it. It was, but we think around the bat 2,550.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:41] Oh, Oh, a lot. isn't it. But that's over,
Andy Lee: [00:00:46] that's over 20 years. You guys are already in the eight hundreds.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:51] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're actually 16.
We just have aged a shitload in two years attempting to do this many. No, no, no. So we're trying to do 10 years, Andy. We're trying to, when I say try to, we are going to, but that should lead us to a couple of thousand, so it should only land us it, but I'm happy to continue Josh, if it means we're going to beat Haymitch and Andy's, and now
Josh Janssen: [00:01:13] before the in, I think it would be nice
Andy Lee: [00:01:17] doing, uh, we made a pledge of 40 episodes for 40 years.
Was was the podcast. Um, so you will incrementally get us. Um, but because we're only doing 40 a year, but that's the promise the 1600 over 40 years.
Josh Janssen: [00:01:34] Is that actually, how is this something you've spoke to? This is definitely, this is not true. This is obviously on the podcast.
Andy Lee: [00:01:40] Say yeah, 40, 40 for 40 years.
That's so we're in year three of the 40 for 40. Yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:01:49] I mean, the great thing about these grandiose promises is you can sort of just make him like it's so far away.
Andy Lee: [00:01:56] Yeah, exactly. But then with our listeners, um, we constantly get reminded of things that we've promised and not delivered on. And so, um, and people send in the audio from like 2006 going, Hey, You said, if this hadn't happened by this date, you would do this.
And sure. We ignore most of those, but at times the other one personal we'll bring it up. Particularly if it was a claim that Hamish made, I'm always very keen to bring it up to him and go, Hey, I'll remind you of this moment and play it for him. And then generally that. That storyline starts again.
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:29] Well, the, the guy that you banned from the show for years, and then you had him back on, like, you see how, if you just make enough promises, you will come through on a few of them.
Andy Lee: [00:02:40] That was a great segue. That was amazing.
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:42] Yeah. Andy, the F the, the difference between the every day radio show versus the podcast, what's been the shift in you and Hamish and your friendship. Because it's, it's a unique working relationship being around someone doing the radio show
Andy Lee: [00:02:57] versus
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:58] once a week.
What does that shift been like?
Andy Lee: [00:03:02] Um, I'll look, I think it was, it was timely because, um, with all, everything else going on, you know, Hamish got Lego masters and other shows and he's a family and he used to just kind of feed my attention. Now he's got sunny and Rudy, and these should spend some time with his wife.
So I think. As far as lifestyle goes, it means that, um, it's a great, it's a great balance. Uh, and also we probably chat more as pals now because it's not the daily. What are we doing today? What are we doing? The show itself? It's a weekly thing. So yeah, we trade, we trade more text messages, more phone calls, just bring it up, which is a, which is probably pretty nice to be honest after.
You know, we had a 10, probably a 10 year spout of, um, of, you know, it started out as this uni mites and it was this and then it got quite serious even though series in its silliness, but there was certainly, you know, the daily radio to be doing. Um, so it's kinda nice to circle back to that.
Josh Janssen: [00:04:04] I was looking at you, you would light to Instagram.
You only got on Instagram like
Andy Lee: [00:04:07] three years ago. Very,
Josh Janssen: [00:04:10] very quick on tick talk. Like I feel like for your demographic, you've gotta be almost like patient one in that, in some regard
Andy Lee: [00:04:20] I do for that exact reason. It's like, I was so late on Instagram. Yeah, that cause cause early anyone that's on some AP to social media earlier gets more followers. Like it's just the way it happens. Cause everyone's picking things up and they're not discerning when the, when, when stumping starts, it was the same Hamish.
Now we're very light on Twitter, um, individually, but, and you see people take it up really quickly and they're not discerning things of new form of media. Yeah. Do I really want to follow this guy or not? So basically as a safeguard, I started a tick tock just to get and number in case ticktock ruled the world.
I'm not very good at it. I actually haven't been on it for like six weeks, I don't think. But, but yes, that was the reason why
Josh Janssen: [00:05:06] it makes sense.
Tommy Jackett: [00:05:07] We love a sort of a re brand domain names handles. Josh informed me that you've just shifted your Twitter handle. Yeah. Big move,
Andy Lee: [00:05:19] big, huge move. Well, the thing was, I had a different Instagram handle to Twitter, which a lot of people do, but
Josh Janssen: [00:05:28] fast and loose, Amy's Blake doing some of the worst Hybris, like shots is still available on Twitter.
If you want to pick it up.
Andy Lee: [00:05:37] Exactly. So what happened was someone took my Twitter handle and made a fake Instagram. Handle and, and vice versa. Someone took my Instagram handle and made a fake Twitter page, trying to, trying to be me, which is quite easy. It's just playing golf and drinking beer. So it's pretty easy to pretend to be me.
Um, and so that was a strange thing to kind of look at. And I was like, Oh, well, I've tried. I should try to. And when people are tagging in, you. On the opposite one, they often get it wrong. So I thought I should try and, uh, and sync them up. And I noticed the other day that the Twitter had gone on and disabled.
Um, the person impersonating me, so people must have reported him or something or him or her. And I thought, well, this is an opportunity to, to see if I can get that handle. Um, and I quit. So
Josh Janssen: [00:06:32] I did talk, talking about a golf. The school that I went to, um, in high school was called Glen Eagles and I got the, I got the Twitter handle, Glen Eagles, and I found an old email of me contacting the Glen Eagles golf course saying if I could do some sort of contract where I gave them the Twitter handle in exchange for it.
A few rounds of golf, but they never wrote back. So if, if you think that you could potentially do something with it, I'm happy to give you Gleneagles on Twitter.
Andy Lee: [00:07:02] I will eventually play at clinicals. Yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:07:06] Can you tag us? I think we should
Andy Lee: [00:07:08] stay there, which is really weird that it doesn't play golf. He's just looking for a nice place to stay.
After we did a trip through, um, England and Scotland and Zoe was traveling across and knowing him, he probably would have just topped him. Something very quickly and booked it because he'd promised Zoe that he'd done it four weeks ago or something like he loved it, but he's like, I'm like, I really want to play that golf course.
And you were just having walks and having Epic lunches. So, um, yeah, I will, I will definitely get there to play. Cause I've got this, you know, that is the retirement plan is to pick off golf courses around the world and I'd love to play. I don't think Glen Eagles is in the top hundred, but my goal is to.
Spend a year or two and play the top hundred golf courses in the world if I can get on. Yeah. And that to me would be an amazing year boring for a lot of people. Don't get me wrong. That would be
Tommy Jackett: [00:08:01] what actually makes a top level golf course, other than green grass. And it really, you know, it mowed properly.
Josh Janssen: [00:08:08] good is the clubhouse? I believe.
Andy Lee: [00:08:10] Oh yeah. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, I'm about to delve into something that's super interesting to me, but you guys can edit this guy.
Josh Janssen: [00:08:20] This is great.
Andy Lee: [00:08:21] Okay. Um, how would I describe it to people, but okay. Most people might like food more than, than, than golf. So let me try and use food analogies, right?
Right. Yes. You are right about the way it's moaned. Yeah. How green the grass is, even how fast the actual greens run and how pure they are, the ball doesn't bubble around. It's just pure. It's like on carpet. That makes a good golf course. So I suppose that's like the food itself, the ingredients to be good.
Right. So fresh, good ingredients. Then you're talking about the ambiance. The, you go into a beautiful restaurant, obviously Denley. They might have lovely fixtures, fittings, et cetera. The golf course design is just as yeah. Important a hole and it's designed the way it uses its Hills and the way it puts bonkers and trees, et cetera, is just as exciting.
You can get there and go. That's a good heart. That's a terrible hall. No, that makes no sense to a lot of people. But yeah, there is a golf course public one next to my house down the coast called st. Andrew's beach, which is so highly ranked. And it's a public course just because of the design. The holes are really clever.
Josh Janssen: [00:09:32] What about weather? Like I can imagine
Andy Lee: [00:09:37] never comes into it. I don't think when they judge golf courses. Yes. There's some of the, like for instance, in the top of Tasmania place called Barnbougle, uh, ranked number one and two or two and three, um, in the country, rural Melbourne, still not one, but two and three in the country. But it gets super windy and super rainy down there.
So you've got to pick your time to go, but the courses are incredible.
Josh Janssen: [00:10:03] Surely that's a consideration. You think.
Andy Lee: [00:10:07] Cause you mentioned you went to brave at all. It's meant to be for all conditions. Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:10:12] Have you had, have you experienced one that was at the top of that, you know, according to, you know, at Andy, Tom, Les, that you haven't rated it?
Andy Lee: [00:10:21] Well, I mean, you guys having played tiger woods golf on PS four or something back in the day or pastry pebble beach is a very, very famous course. Yeah. Um, and it golfers, even if you're not a golfer, pebble beach might be the one that. I didn't think pebble was as good as I'd hoped. It would be. Hopefully they allow me back on.
Josh Janssen: [00:10:44] Okay. But
Andy Lee: [00:10:46] also when you play really shit, you can think that the course is really bad. I didn't have a good day. So maybe that Lizzie, it's just my own little David's coming out.
Josh Janssen: [00:10:53] You see, you hear that? Like Donald Trump apparently cheats a little bit. When he plays golf,
Andy Lee: [00:11:00] I'm reading a book. I'm reading a book called commander in cheat.
Isn't about a guy that played golf, a lot of golf with Donald Trump and realizes realized the way he cheated in golf is very close to the way he cheats as a president and the way he lives and the way he goes about his whole life actually is this is the way he treats golf as well. It's quite fascinating.
Josh Janssen: [00:11:23] He says that he's got a handicap of four,
Andy Lee: [00:11:26] a huge lie. Yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:11:29] What's your handicap
Andy Lee: [00:11:31] six. Um, but. I'm probably worse than that at the moment, I got lucky on a bit of a run, which can bring it down, but four is extremely good. Um, and I've seen here the way he swings it and all right, good. What is the
Tommy Jackett: [00:11:48] what's this, what's the similarities of, I'm not trying to compare you to Donald Trump, but just golfers in general.
What are the traits of people who like golf and how does it sort of, how does it translate to, you know, normal life
Andy Lee: [00:12:01] for most. I've I feel like I'm on an uphill battle with golf, because it seems like this current spokespeople for golf for Donald Trump and Sam Newman. Yeah. And so anytime like I'm like, you know, enthusiastic about it.
I think most people are more excited about knocking them down and hoping that golf does very slowly. Um, I'm not putting, um, Trump and Newman entirely in the same basket, although Newman is a Trump supporter, but, um, Yeah, it's, it's a shame that, uh, those guys are the face of it all, but I look there's a lot what I found, but I didn't realize until I started playing, was that a lot of my favorite creatives by it.
So, um, which has been really fun to start playing with them and get invited out with them. So, Rob sitch, um, who is, uh, from working dog, you know, he wrote the castle, um, and, um, and directed the dish and, you know, like he loves his golf and we play a lot. And Sam Pang. Glenn Robbins loves these golf. Um, and we, and we play a lot.
And so there's this group of people that you can go out and make them a lawyer loves it. Um, and it's the thing, love it. Back off I realized, um, is it's actually the chatting far more than the goal. I don't, I've never go and play by myself.
Josh Janssen: [00:13:24] Are you all walk out or do you go away? Always walk,
Andy Lee: [00:13:27] always walk.
And it's the only time in life, really for me, cause I liked being busy and like being connected, but I turn my phone off for the golf team takes five, about four and a half hours, five hours. And no one seems to look at their phones. Surely there's a great app.
Josh Janssen: [00:13:43] Like I feel like, cause I used to play golf a lot as a kid.
Like I would be on the course, like seven days a week type of thing. Terrible. I think I was at the max, which is a 32 handicap for juniors and spent like a lot of time, but I feel like there were contraptions. Like, do you have like a, do you still use a scorecard with a pencil? Does that help you with your cheating?
Andy Lee: [00:14:05] Well, no, because the. The F if you're painting in a handicapped card, you actually hand the card to your playing partner. You can not allowed to record your score
Josh Janssen: [00:14:15] or they Malay itself or how they
Andy Lee: [00:14:17] know your hand, that in their little Raven at the end, you just give it to it. So at the end, in the clubhouse, you hand them in, but you, so if, if, if I was playing with you, Josh, I would give you my card at the start of the round.
And you Mark in my score for the whole round, then you sign it and give it back to me. And I do the same for you. So that's how you meant to stop cheating in it. And it does, it really does like you, even if people miscount, you know, sometimes you might walk up and go, I got a five, cause you missed a part that was tiny, like, you know, a 10 centimeter apart, but you in your head already thought you'd made it and you've got a five and the guy's like, Oh,
Tommy Jackett: [00:14:55] Wasn't it.
Josh Janssen: [00:14:56] I wasn't a singer.
Andy Lee: [00:14:57] She, I miss that sometimes unwillingly, you might, might think that you might accidentally cheat, but so it's good to have someone that, um, that keeps close on you, but not
Tommy Jackett: [00:15:07] necessarily for us, but, um, golf would be a great place to take someone on a date. Like if you're just doing bantering yet, you're focused on the chat.
It's a great idea. I mean, I guess
Josh Janssen: [00:15:19] it's that he slipped to the golf buggy. Remember in Fiji, I've got a GoPro footage of her saying is, wait, we actually, we got.
Andy Lee: [00:15:29] It's. I mean, people talk about different meditations, you know, but this, I don't know, I don't meditate as such, but then realized when I've read a bit about meditation is like, Oh, this is exactly what I'm doing.
When I go at Bay, like concentrating on something that's completely different to your life. I don't tend to get, think about work at all because I'm so focused on what am I going to do for the next shot, et cetera. And if we go back again, this might be so boring for her, but if we go back to what we talked about with design, um, my neighbor, um, down, down the coast, he's one of the best golfers sun is in the world.
Um, he used to be a pro. He, he, um, he he's one, uh, a bunch of titles, an older fellow lovely guy called my Clayton. And when I, I often play with him. And he tells you why a course is good or holes good or not. And
Josh Janssen: [00:16:18] is it depending on how his playing is loud? This one isn't
Andy Lee: [00:16:24] but, and I like this for life. A good hole gives you choices.
When you stand up on the tee, which is like, I can get there in many different ways. I don't know. That sounds really bizarre, but like, that's why shorter holes are often better because you could be conservative first and then have a longer shot in, or you can have the risk reward of going, trying to go longer with a shorter shutter, which makes easier.
But that's, that's what a good hole does. And, and so I love getting up on to a, a tee box and trying to go, what is the designer wanting me to do? And where's the risk reward. And am I feel like I'm gonna take that on and I love making those calculations. It's so far from what I've got to do for work. Gee, I've got to sign those documents.
Oh my gosh. Someone's suing me for liable.
Josh Janssen: [00:17:20] Can I do one, one final golf question?
Andy Lee: [00:17:23] Yeah, of course. I mean, I'm loving this, but I don't worry
Josh Janssen: [00:17:26] that
Andy Lee: [00:17:27] you guys, you guys are data data, guys. You'll be able to track how deeply this fell off.
Josh Janssen: [00:17:34] No, wait, we're going to put it on all the golf forums to try and put my case together, but the.
Andy Lee: [00:17:41] what's your favorite?
Tommy Jackett: [00:17:42] We'll also get it. Sorry. Pimple will
Josh Janssen: [00:17:44] receive, but I will be going there. So the, uh, your favorite golf club as a, you know, like, not as in the course, but actually like swinging, uh, and are you a Potter guy? Cause you see people who have like fucking 30 different potters and every week there they've got the new one.
That's got some ridiculous
Andy Lee: [00:18:05] head on notes. I get sucked in a little bit to technology, but, but not really. I kind of. Just get my clubs and kind of stick with them. I mean, fortunate in recent years that because of my love for golf, one of the brands reached out and said, Hey, we really love what you guys do and what you do and how much you love it.
And they send me things. So I feel a bit cheeky in that regard, but, um, as far as the clubhouse there is, I am a member of peninsula Kingsburg. He's just beautiful club. And I was like, that's your traditional golf kind of thing. But I would say my favorite is this one, it's an Andrews beach. They ran out of money.
It's a shipping container. Um, it's a shipping container with a deck out the front that they built the deck and they were hoping to build it. I passed many, many years ago over a decade ago and it's never gotten, got done. And so that's my that's. My favorite is having a, they only sell cans of beer.
Normally the local brewery and sitting out there. Having the can, um, outside the shipping container is a, is my favorite.
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:05] Well, I mean, if you, if, if you still wore your clothes from when you were 15, you couldn't afford clothes, they would come back into fashion. That's what they've got. Put a shipping
Andy Lee: [00:19:13] container.
It looked Paul and it's actually become hipster. Cool.
Josh Janssen: [00:19:18] Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:20] I mean, in London, I went to a place called cargo bar that was literally just made out of cargo ship containers and yeah, I call this thing.
Andy Lee: [00:19:28] What is it? Yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:19:30] These container things end up, like I've watched a bunch of YouTube videos to actually get the containers working.
It ends up costing more than just building. An actual house.
Andy Lee: [00:19:42] Yeah. Yeah, I agree. But there was, there was, I mean, I saw a grand designs where a patient was using shipping containers, but the amount of welding and cranes required all there could be containers going, going in, in sync. I mean, the house looked amazing, but yeah, I'm not sure if it was a huge cost side before.
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:58] Are you, are you handy around the house? Are you a DIY guy?
Andy Lee: [00:20:03] Not too bad. Um, I am a bit particular as, as any listener of high machinery show would know I'm particular about things being done right. And finishes. So I will have a go at things, but I will want to make sure that it looks as good as it could.
I suppose. So, yeah. Yeah. Harder things. I won't, I probably won't won't have a go at, but I can, I tend to be able to fix things more than build things. I would say.
Josh Janssen: [00:20:30] Have you had any projects like DIY projects since, since lockdown? Um,
Andy Lee: [00:20:36] a few mainly plumbing related ones.
Josh Janssen: [00:20:41] They're like emergency sort of things.
Andy Lee: [00:20:44] Yeah. One was like a, a S a smell. I was like, Oh gosh, I'm going to have to do this. No matter how much baking soda, I throw down this thing and try to get rid of this. The stench turns out that the Aspen. Wasn't kind of, uh, wasn't kind of as, um, sealing up. Oh, hi bye. Yeah, exactly. But, um, and then like spins falls,
Tommy Jackett: [00:21:06] you know what the SPN like they got told.
Yeah. I only get told that.
Josh Janssen: [00:21:12] Well, what was sorry?
Andy Lee: [00:21:14] To stop smell.
Josh Janssen: [00:21:15] Ah, okay. Sure. And so the, that was why you
Tommy Jackett: [00:21:18] JJ, it's the w the water is there to prevent it sort of coming back up, which makes a lot of sense. But somehow I get it to smell even when the spends work.
Andy Lee: [00:21:29] So yeah, if the cost, cause it comes down and goes back up and then heads down, there would be an amount of water that sits.
Does that make sense? I'm not
Josh Janssen: [00:21:39] trying to, it's almost like the smell of like water or whatever, like, yeah, it was a big difference.
Andy Lee: [00:21:45] Yeah, so this, if you don't use your tap for a long time, it'll start smelling. Cause that particular bit of water that's in the SPN similar to a bath toilet will, will get stale, but a tap the, to use regularly or wash out that style water.
It stops the stuff from the sewerage or a septic tank wafting all the way out because it creates its own cap. The water creates its own seal. That gee, I can't believe that the assault was born. Yeah,
Josh Janssen: [00:22:12] the plumbing. Plumbing what's next? I mean the how, how hard
Andy Lee: [00:22:17] is it? Here's what I mean, terrible. Okay. I had a rat die in the, in the wall.
Josh Janssen: [00:22:23] Oh
Tommy Jackett: [00:22:23] no, no.
Andy Lee: [00:22:24] And so maggots have been coming out of the wall and there is a, not a lot you can do about it. You can, but you have to cut into the wall.
Josh Janssen: [00:22:35] You can have to do it though. Like surely at some point you're gonna have to do it. What's it like.
Andy Lee: [00:22:39] What do you hope to and how well, two and a half weeks, a magnet will, I've read about this as well.
A magnet will decompose the rat. The rat will become nothing in two and a half.
Josh Janssen: [00:22:49] So you're waiting from the maggots to like, do you not do your dishes too? Cause you just waiting for the maggots.
Andy Lee: [00:22:55] It's like, do I, I couldn't do this myself to cut through the wall. Um, if it was on a plaster wall, Maybe you could attempt it or get someone else to do it, but it's a Stonewall.
Oh no. So it's a
Josh Janssen: [00:23:11] pain in the castle.
Andy Lee: [00:23:20] so, um, and you know, and that's why I'm holding off maid Marian coming around. The other stuff I'd have to smell this.
So solution is either you can cut into the roof and drop these deodorizing bags down the cavity that capped try and capture the smell and still let the maggots do they think, or it's two and a half weeks, two and a half weeks of the smell. And yet the megas do their thing. So the maggots will slowly finding their way out of the wall.
I don't know how, but so I'm on Magnetrol and because Beck doesn't want anything to do with it
Josh Janssen: [00:24:01] room. Is it in
Andy Lee: [00:24:02] living room? Yeah. When the smell was at its worst. Beck was just not, we're not watching anything. There was no series that could get us a lot of golf, a lot of golf. So, um, which is kind of fine for me.
Cause I was like, Oh, the footie was, I was like, okay, well was happy to withstand the stench. Um, things are worse than I can watch football. But um, yeah, now it seems like the magazine had done their thing. It doesn't really smell anymore, but they just coming out. Fall's a good, they've had a huge, they've had a great lunch.
And they're coming out and, um, and so, yeah, I'm on mag watch every morning I wake up and Beck goes, you're going down to clean up that. And I'll
Josh Janssen: [00:24:48] what do you mean clean up that? What are you cleaning up?
Andy Lee: [00:24:50] Well, I'm clean, I'm cleaning up all the magnets that are coming out of the wall.
Josh Janssen: [00:24:53] How many maggots?
Andy Lee: [00:24:55] Oh, well, early on, I would say tens close to a hundred, but now it's like.
Yeah. Now it's more closer to a, I don't know, it's like 10 a day type thing
Josh Janssen: [00:25:13] next time. Cause like there was that like two and a half weeks that you've had to wait. Is that okay? Worth it or is this like waiting for Instagram next time it comes around. You're you can hit it. Like ticktock
Andy Lee: [00:25:22] not totally worth it.
I'm trying to find it. Cause I sent a photo. Um, Oh, here we go. I think I've got one here. Okay. So like this is what I'm I'm not sure if you can see
Josh Janssen: [00:25:38] yeah, yeah, they go, Oh. Oh, wow.
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:42] Oh,
Josh Janssen: [00:25:42] no, it looks like a
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:44] trail mix. It looks like gone
Andy Lee: [00:25:47] fishing.
I'll go down and clear that out before and then Beck thinks I've become, cause I like early on, I was like, Oh, this is so great. And now I just picked them up with my hands. I'm like, so used to them. And Beck thinks that's really gross, but I we're at the other end it's it's um, yeah, it's like COVID cases.
It was actually was tracking exactly. I was looking at modeling from the university of Melbourne, how many bags we were hoping to get under a daily average of
every morning, North face jacket
Josh Janssen: [00:26:21] on, you know, what's good news.
Andy Lee: [00:26:23] I'm pleased to announce that, um, we have a, uh, mega camp. Oh, 12 today bringing the rolling average down to 20.5. Um, sadly for those maggots, all of them have died. Uh,
Josh Janssen: [00:26:38] but,
Andy Lee: [00:26:38] um, yeah, so we're, we're getting close to a zero magic pant and it looks good and kind of grateful for them because they are the ones that got rid of the mass and the smell
Tommy Jackett: [00:26:49] is the circle of life.
It's the cycle of law
Josh Janssen: [00:26:52] Friday.
Andy Lee: [00:26:53] Well, it's, it's in John. I put, I put him on as I cleaned up the bag. So I put Elton John on,
Josh Janssen: [00:27:00] how do you like doing a podcast? That's about, uh, comedy and sort of, um, uh, entertainment during a time, like a pandemic. What's the conversations that you're having as a team around how you're going to tackle it.
Andy Lee: [00:27:15] We had one really short one, which was. Let's not mention it. Like, it, it, it it's all everyone was talking about, but our show doesn't really matter. Reflect topical things. It's more about our own adventures. We're starting up and interacting with people. I noticed a lot of people riding in, um, more than, than ever say banks.
Um, and particularly after that first lockdown, um, the first two weeks of the podcast going out. People writing in saying, thanks, I'm using my, this is a good escape and so on. And so that kind of affirmed that decision for us, which was really nice. Um, and, you know, realize that that's some people's escape, which is again with chuffed with that.
So, yeah, we w we didn't want to talk about it much. Um, they, and as soon as you kind of put that behind you, you have off you go. I remember when. It was a similar thing. He doesn't do serious, all that. Well, um, we find too, it just doesn't, it doesn't feel like the natural place we want to be. Um, because it's escapism and it's fun.
And I remember, have you ever had a moment
Josh Janssen: [00:28:21] where you have gone serious and it sort of it's felt rewarding and it's sort of
Andy Lee: [00:28:27] yeah. There's, there's moments where you, where you, we, if we're both super passionate about something there's moments that you feel compelled to and you want to, and you do. Um, but for instance, when Trump got elected, um, That was a strange day across the world, but particularly in America and yeah.
Remember how much? I think it probably could have been an hour of the show, a lot of us listeners, and we just put the call out to them and just said, um, this is what we're doing live radio. Does anyone wanna talk about it? And we just kinda got people calling in from the U S just saying how down there we are.
Not at all of people were, were up because they were Trump supporters, but there was, it was a strange feeling and reflecting that felt like the right thing to do. And war, I was just a bit confused as to what was about to happen. Um, And then that's a way that we did lean into it, but on the day he led to died again, we were live on the radio and our, or a call going, okay, well, it was really sad and, and, um, and we wanted to acknowledge that, but also.
Wanted cause we we're in the afternoon. It's PR it's all that everyone had heard all day. And Brad
Josh Janssen: [00:29:39] blanks was the first I think Ozzy to, to be there, I think from memory Daniel Lincoln, Brad blanks. Yeah.
Andy Lee: [00:29:49] Wow. So we just I'm again, if I recall correctly at the top of the show, we just said, Hey. Really sad day for Heath and his family.
Um, really sad day for Australia and for all movie lovers, we acknowledge that, but we're going to do our best to, um, talk about the things today and take them on it. You've got it all day. And, uh, and, and that was kind of, we said at the headline, and then the rest of the show, we just went on with it. And I think it, that, that to me felt like the right thing.
There's nothing more to add. And in that regard, um, You can do tributes and stuff, but we'd had, we'd heard that all day and we thought we'd be the opportunity for people to maybe hear something different. And we've taken that approach a number of times,
Tommy Jackett: [00:30:32] I feel like that's really putting your audience first and, and, and, you know, the brand of what your show stands for.
Is there been times where you've wanted to talk about something. But the show just isn't aligned with that. Like it's not that you want to defend.
Andy Lee: [00:30:50] Yeah. I know what you mean. I reckon, I think, um, there were times back in the day that we discussed are, should we be talking to this? Or it might be a serious topic that we're asking for calls on and we tried it and it was kind of like, It felt like a massive U-turn like, it just felt like, Hmm, it it's difficult to go from being so passionate about kids meals for adults.
Um, and, and having a huge campaign about that. Or, or trying to raise funds to buy a hoverboard to then turn around and go with something really serious because. A lot of our comedy was based on taking silly things, extra serious, and being really earnest about the stupidness of it. And suddenly to be earnest about something that is, you know, quite meaningful is, is a harder thing.
And I think your audience kind of goes, hang on, wait, where are we? You know, and you did say don't tear it territory. So we, we chose those moments. Um, Louis recent one, I suppose, was we discussed with marriage equality with that the postal, um, vote on, um, that was a really strange time. Um, and Jaime and I were passionate about, um, marriage equality.
And that was one where we went, okay, well, no, we want to say something here. We want to do something. We don't hide away from it. A lot of political things. We don't not to say we don't care about them, but don't feel like it's the forum for it. This is again, a place you can come and escape, but we did, um, again, we will conscious to say, you should vote this way.
Sorry, not to say you should vote this way, but we did want to recognize that everyone should vote. And I was an Hamish, but both countable is saying, this is an important thing. We are going to vote this way. We're not telling you what, which way to vote. But we think you should get your ballot in. Um, and it was a, a softer way of showing our position without telling people what to do.
And I, and I think that was not that anyone probably listened to us anyway, but I feel like commentators at times tell people what to do. And I find that particularly off putting a opposed to making a case as to why there. Going down this path and letting us make up for our own mind, what we might like to do.
And I certainly react better to the people that take that approach
Josh Janssen: [00:33:12] you described as the people's show. It feels like people are divided. Is it, does that make life easier? Oh, sorry. Harder. Do you think when you're coming, like if you think about the early two thousands creating content and then creating a show in 2020.
Andy Lee: [00:33:32] Uh, it would, if, again, if we decided to lean into. Those areas. I think I
Josh Janssen: [00:33:40] like it, but isn't it like, you can say anything nowadays and people will politicize it. Like, that seems like the crazy thing is like, yeah, like I say chat,
Andy Lee: [00:33:50] but like all political,
Josh Janssen: [00:33:54] like, even like you said, the Trump stuff, right? Like, there'd be so many people triggered by that and say you have lefty media, blah, blah, blah.
Like, is there,
Andy Lee: [00:34:02] I mean, Now you're saying Trump's not good at golf would probably incite some people. But I think that, I think you're right. I think our community, that was the big difference between a podcast and a broadcast. And I think people, you know, the term broadcast is true. It's broad, it's, that's what it's designed to do.
And you're designed to be as broad as possible. And I remember, um, it was Danny David , um, who was head of nine. Um, and an amazing brain for television. He really taught high mission a lot and became good mates. And he got us to cross the channel nine. He said that in one of our first meetings, because cause you as a creative, you want to be nation.
You want to be at some time and, and you feel that that's the cool spot to be, but he said, and how you just remember you broadcast is not narrowcast. And talking about the appeal of the show being widespread and that we should possibly lean into that. And, and that was really good advice because. It's it's, it's where we naturally play.
Anyway, we like being inclusive and everyone having fun and it being family orientated as, but hopefully there's enough cheekiness to comply older, but kids can still change and all that kind of stuff. It wasn't like, we're like, Oh, we need to make this as broad as possible. It's just when we naturally played and early on, I certainly felt like I was like, Oh, maybe I want to be edgier.
Cause I am, I want to be cooler so to speak. Yeah. But it wasn't really where I wanted to naturally play. And you kind of quickly realized. You can probably have both, you know, in a certain way. Um, so yeah, for our community and the people listening to us, when we went to the podcast, I think we didn't have to be as broad.
Um, which is, which is a nice freedom, I suppose. But, um, what is the feeling
Tommy Jackett: [00:35:53] gone from the medium of radio, which is the broadcast to the medium of poker?
Andy Lee: [00:35:59] Not too different, but the deep in jokes, like, and the D like the way people interact with the show is so deep that if you're doing a radio show, you would have to constantly go, someone rings up and says a joke.
That is referencing, you know, something that's been a running joke for eight years, you'd have to go. Oh, of course. Referencing the
Josh Janssen: [00:36:22] C. So say B would say like, cause we've we sort of asked him to air check us. And one of the things that like, just for a bit of an interesting thing is like, you're serving your too much.
Like, no, one's going to know these references and all that. So I think, but do you think that like, things have changed? Like, do you think that like with podcasting. Like, is there an opportunity, like how do you grow, I guess, how do you, like you're in a position where you've got an audience? Do you find that you're getting new listeners?
Andy Lee: [00:36:52] Yeah. Yeah, we have it's um, we were surprised that, um, our podcast, as far as like the daily per show download, obviously we had five shows a week in the last week, but going to one, it actually five times the amount of people started listening. It's a podcast. So that was a surprise for us. So roughly, maybe four to five.
And we were like, Oh, wow. Okay. People want, we, I always surprised because I didn't expect people to care that we left the radio that much. And perhaps they will. Uh, yeah, I still locked guys a bit, so I'm going to find them, but they didn't have to do that when they could turn their radio on every day. So that was, that was a nice uptake.
Um, And then yeah, from there, we still want the show to be accessible for all. It's not about going mega fans. You will enjoy this. You'll have no idea where you're up to. If you just tune in. I don't think that's
Josh Janssen: [00:37:52] everything once then, like say, how do you get the in jokes while still being inclusive?
Andy Lee: [00:37:58] I think what we have decided these, there are in jokes that we're not going to try.
To, um, explain. Yeah. And they just roll past, but then moments. And so the deeper listener will laugh at those moments. But for those who don't know, hopefully they just fly on by. You didn't even know that you missed that. Yeah. Um, and so
Tommy Jackett: [00:38:22] being in a conversation with a group of someone makes a joke and you don't hear it, but cause everyone else is laughing.
So I feel like there's a version of listening to a podcast and you're like,
Josh Janssen: [00:38:33] I'm, this is 17. There's a stickiness to that as well. Right. Like I think that there's a sense, I think, especially with H and I it's like, you want to. When you listen to an episode, if you haven't listened to the other, other episodes, like there is that sense that you want to go back because like, hang on.
This is something that's being mentioned here. I get it. It's funny. But I think like I need to go back.
Andy Lee: [00:38:57] Yeah, I agree. I think that there's certainly, I have friends go, Hey, what's all this about, you know, and I'll go and I'll explain it to them. And I go, Oh my God, that's hilarious. And so, yes. The intro, hopefully intrigued takes over and that builds into people going back and listening to more.
And that's been fun about the PO what we did with the podcast. There were some jokes, so which we're in our third year coming up at the end of it, there was some jokes the, we carried across from the radio days, but very, very few, a few. We decided to try and create the whole new world and be a podcast dedicated.
And so it was nice. People can now go back to podcast one. And if they were to listen in order from there, they would have, they'd be completely up to date for the podcast. You didn't need to be following and understanding for 10, 20 years to get it. So that was something that we were conscious of.
Tommy Jackett: [00:39:49] So 40 shows a year, 40.
Years, you've got 37 years to go. How, how different? Cause it created a lot of the ones I see online. You see them, they shift what they create. They shift their interests based on probably their, you know, their age or what they're into. What do you think? You guys like blue sky thinking the Jaime Shandy shower.
If it goes more niche based on the, you know, the medium of podcasting, what would it be?
Andy Lee: [00:40:19] Um, I we've only got one trick. Um, and so I think we'll keep doing that, which is essentially trying to make each other laugh, um, and hang out and, and, uh, the good, the fun part about it is, you know, segments can come and go.
You can get used them, some can, um, uh, can fall away. Um, pizza lotto has probably seen it, uh, the end of days where, um, you. Basically, we rang a pizza shop and tried to guess what Peter was coming up next out of the pizza that's pizza lotto. Um, we have that. It's great fun. Um,
Josh Janssen: [00:41:01] so I think that's a yes,
Andy Lee: [00:41:02] Josh.
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, but I feel like, uh, what I love and particularly about working with Haim, he. Doesn't lock doing the same thing to very long or the same line of stuff. And we're both PR and I'm similar, but we're both pretty aware when we feel like the trade is being worn off the tires. And we should put that aside.
And even with the radio show, we only had one or two, maybe two or three regular segments. Um, the cause we liked having a bunch of segments that you can pull in any, on any given day. If you felt like playing it opposed to every Wednesday we're doing this every, you know? Um, and there was, to me, interesting discussions back in the day about that the, the program is, would go.
Yeah, but you need to give your audience something to hold onto. And I tend to agree with that. If Wednesday, we did a segment called blast from the past. And, um, where we rang up random numbers and pretended that we'll went to primary school with them and see if you could convince them that you did, um, by bluffing, uh, which was scary that you could on a lot of times, but, um, you know, the people would look forward to that.
It's something for them to hold onto a post to the show could be anything. And that's also good learning. I think for us was like, you need to give people enough things to hold on to, but then keep variety. So it feels fresh each time for them. And that's a balance. We try and pick
Josh Janssen: [00:42:35] whatever. Yeah. Uh, growing and like scaling an audience like, uh, what we've found in August.
We were, you know, strategizing and thinking of ways how we can, we can grow. And we realized that we need to focus on all these other business things that we were doing. And we couldn't focus on that specific thing. And we're like, what happens if we did
Andy Lee: [00:42:56] well, you and I talked to him about it at the time.
Hey, we're talking a lot about that stuff. Yeah,
Josh Janssen: [00:43:00] exactly. Hi, I'm a month ago out. So like all of September, we're like, what happens if we don't have a single guest on, and we'd told ourselves that. You know, guest spring numbers and all that sort of thing. September, we had our biggest month of downloads ever, which is just this weird thing because we'd been using this lever that we thought was what was going to bring people to the, to the show.
And it was, we, we spent so much time like having, like sometimes we'd have, uh, no, maybe 20 guests on a month. And it's quite exhausting doing that. Like, especially. You know when you're in a pandemic. And so that made me question everything in regards to how we scale up or how we find new listeners. What are the leavers that you guys have pulled on over the years to find new listeners?
Andy Lee: [00:43:54] yeah. Going back to that point about the guests and what you don't know, what, what, you know, you were throwing a lot of ingredients in a show and you don't rarely do you take one out and see if it tastes the same. Um, and so you, so you feel like, or every ingredient, is it and, or as important, but with gap?
Yeah. Yeah. The first one season we had celebrities, we did a tonight show slash travel show out in New York. And we had huge celebrities come on. Like Susan Sarandon was in studio, Coldplay played live. Taylor Swift was in that like. But what was strange was the feedback was we, we don't want these guys like the clinical pipeline, half our audience switched off and.
And people were going and there were, and we had, and it was the most kind of negative comments we've had because people have very, if they're tuning in for you, they know what you're getting. If they're, if they're tuning in for you, they, they're not generally, they're not going to be bagging you out, but.
I guess comes on and suddenly you're saying you've got to like these people, even the player. I think they're amazing. I know there actually I've since learned that they're quite divisive as far as their audience, people either think they're really lame or think they're really cool. And, um,
Josh Janssen: [00:45:13] Nickelback, I love Nickelback, by the way, you don't like
plan to go back to the same category, both great bands.
Andy Lee: [00:45:25] Yeah, well, that's the thing. You, you may, the people would have that opinion, but then again, it divided and we realized, wow, okay. We're in a situation where we're trying to bring in stars to, to up our show, but it's actually causing some people to turn off.
So do we, we need to have that discussion in the second. You do. We want to have any guests at all and we've dropped them. And second year rated much better than the first. Um, because we went back to the core of what we did, which was traveling, mucking around and seeing real people were like, we went on the search for more real, crazy people around the world, which was a better content.
Um, so yeah, as far as leave leavers, w we don't have guests on our podcast anymore, where we used to have a lot of them for the radio, like, um, we might make an exception, but now we go, if we're having someone on, we need to be in love with it. And we need to bring them into the world. Um, they're not just there to talk a bit as it's straight interview, there's too many of those.
Um, we need to bring them into our world and, and so the listeners go, Oh, great. They're playing along with, well with the thing, we're all building together. Um, a poster stop down and look at me. Um, so as far as the lasers are pulled up, I wouldn't say where we're pulling, holding any more layers. We've probably dropped some off.
As we went, we dropped off things. We don't think we need anymore. And we wanted to make it clear. About, um, you know, what, what the show is and yeah, it does. We've found it all. I personally found it hard with the pandemic. I love live guests when, and when we say live, live, listen, like listeners, we love having listeners.
I mean, and test them and do different things. And that interaction I think is really fun and important. Yeah. Proud of how we can get through without doing that, but it's all been on the phone, et cetera. I'm looking forward to more live interaction and also. Going out and getting up to some shenanigans would have been fun.
And it's been part of, so we look for bringing those things back in when we're allowed. Um, we also are aware that you can't, when you're trying to build the audience, the, if the goal is just to build the audience, it's I reckon it's, it's a, you're, it's a really hard task, but if your goal is, how can we make this show better?
How can we make it more interesting? Then your audience will build well, that's what
Josh Janssen: [00:47:49] TJ, I always talking about the fact that, uh, interview shows are so popular because it is that common lever, but the thing is you just end up with. Interview shows because, because it is a good strategy for a lot of, a lot of people from day one.
If you do that then like, so for instance, if Hamish and Andy, back when you started, would known as like, you know, the, um, a breakfast with the stars like
Andy Lee: [00:48:13] Kyle
Josh Janssen: [00:48:13] and Jackie O it'd be, it'd be, it'd be a different story. But I think so then there's a level of steadfastness that I feel that we have to do, which is like, Getting people to know us base smaller, but do it on using the leavers that we want to then have sort of more creative control in the future.
Andy Lee: [00:48:34] I agree. I totally agree. And if you find, if you, then you can bring someone, if you find what you guys want to do just between the two of you without having to bring someone in and in suddenly that starting to roll, then when you bring someone in. It gives it the boost, a post, the post that, you know, sitting at the level.
And so that's the way we're viewing the guests at the moment. And there's definite times on the podcast. You're like, Oh my God, it'd be funny to get that person off there because of this and this and this. Um, but opposed to, ah, he's available for an interview, what will we do with that? Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:49:10] Well, there's a lot of assumptions that are being made and half the time we're just.
Having a crack at something we don't know what's going to be the outcome. So your interview version, what we've done. It's like what? What's the risk of then of assuming the way it's
Andy Lee: [00:49:30] Oh yeah. So you mean like, is it once you've done something you
Tommy Jackett: [00:49:39] Yeah. And then, and then, cause then that is just sort of like where we're sort of taking feedback and then trying to say, or cause we all like to have certainty on a way something is working. And so for you guys, is it, you know, you come back and do the second gap year. That is a completely different style.
Do you guys really sort of strategize around, okay, this is why it worked and this is what we need to do.
Andy Lee: [00:50:05] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, You don't wanna get caught too hard, bashing yourself up. Um, and you'll also find that not everyone in your team, um, I'm not talking about Jaime's, but like the broader team, not everyone necessarily wants to, to be a part of that process and you shouldn't force people to, they have to be.
Um, so yeah, we did it for, well, all the creative and all the back of house, like we basically went through cause because we were traveling different countries, we had to, um, Employ like 40 new people, every, every show. So even the people that you relied on in New York, they're not coming to, we normally used to take about eight to 10 and then you've got another 40 to apply.
So going across beforehand to interview everybody to, um, to try and fill the positions. The problem you had in season one, because say if, you know, say if the graphics guy was terrible, isn't won and he wasn't, but I just, you know, so sorry, but I just, you know, say that as a hypothetical and that was a problem.
You might go, gee, we put too much workload on the graphics person. We need to bulk up that department. Let's have three people in there. You get across and then you realize one guy's awesome and you don't need the other two and you've wasted your money. So it's, it's hard to kind of balance those.
Josh Janssen: [00:51:24] You can only learn until you do, right.
Like, I think that that's what we're figuring it out. And that's why, whether it's 10 years or 40 years, the outcome that all you, all we know is that we're not going to work out whether something is right or wrong until we do it. Yep.
Andy Lee: [00:51:40] And then we liked going, I mean, I personally like going. What did we give up safe?
I did. I didn't exercise at the end with Tim first. One's like with regards to who we employed and they're all the departments and how we work logistically and the exercise. And I started this sounds quite down, but it's like, let's review every cause you review everybody, every employee and their work.
Let's review it to the prison though, of what it is. It was our fault. What if we didn't give them the best chance for success?
Josh Janssen: [00:52:10] Because it's so easy to go,
Andy Lee: [00:52:11] Oh, that person's stuck. That will work. That were terrible. But if you turn around and go, okay, that person did sock, what could we have done better to give them a better chance of success?
And we kind of found a lot of the time. I'm like, Oh yes, that person kind of sucked because we didn't brief them well enough, or we actually didn't give them enough time or. Actually their office was over there where they should have been sitting next to this person and all these things. Sometimes it came back to no, they just sucked.
bye that. If we took the responsibility, that was a way we could ensure that the next time round, we weren't gonna make the same mistake. Um, and so we did that from the logistic backs of back of house thing. And then creatively, we all sat together and him and I sat down and we listed every element, the show like graphic, voiceover person, everything you could think of that.
And Ryan and Tim had put all that up and we basically had three columns keep ditch maybe. And one in a singular day, we went through every single thing, put a take alongside all of them. And then when, okay there, the elements we want to keep. Here are the maybes, what would we change about the maybes to potentially get them in this new look, show?
And once basically
Tommy Jackett: [00:53:30] the printers,
Andy Lee: [00:53:37] I feel like I'm more of a mock
Josh Janssen: [00:53:38] board. Definitely. Boris does a lot of weight there.
Andy Lee: [00:53:45] Um, no. So it was, it was an interesting thing to go do that. And then once you've got that set, you don't have to keep. Coming back to it, like, like, you know, we did that because it was wrong. And then as soon as it feels right, just enjoy it, I suppose.
Josh Janssen: [00:54:00] Yeah. You've got a really good business mind. And I think that, so you combine your business mind with your creativity and your, how you think about audience and content. Like, I think like that's the, that's the super power like that combo for you? Uh, radio I've, uh, I feel like there's definitely. Yeah,
Andy Lee: [00:54:23] that's actually very nice.
I didn't know what to say cause it, thank you.
Josh Janssen: [00:54:27] No, that's true. Um, and so like within the radio industry, I catch myself. I think that Tommy and I are in a bit of a moment where we realize that, like we used to reference it a lot or like would be things like looking at what the radio industry was doing.
And like, that was like a bit of energy for me where it's like, they're doing it all wrong and we're going to do it another way. And then you sort of build your own thing and your own industry. And then it's like, it becomes less and less of a thing. But if, because you do have such an understanding of the radio industry, if you were a CEO of a radio network in 2020, thinking about that, what you just described even then, just from a business perspective, what would you be doing if you were CEO
Andy Lee: [00:55:14] sell it?
No. I actually think that radios absolutely still got place. Um, I would, I would probably, it's a tough one because it requires more resources, but I think locally it's an area and local communities and area where you can really lean on radio still. I'm not sure if you saw the ratings this week for three IDW, but, um, in, during a pandemic, people are gonna turn to talk one, talk back one to in particularly when they're stuck in their homes, like a Ross and Russ in the morning, right.
At a 26 year. Um, which is again the different between the commuting person. Um,
Josh Janssen: [00:55:58] like a demographic that like it. So could you talk about like, um, Radio was a broad car, this broad cast, medium. I almost feel that radio is actually just becoming what podcasting is, which has its own niches. And it just so happens that an am band has a larger demographic or niche, which is older Australians.
Um, and so,
Andy Lee: [00:56:25] yeah, it's got gold FKA gold FM is number one, breakfast show FM in plays, old music. Like we it's all getting older. No one is no kid is going. I want to find out what the number one song is. I better listen to the hot hits, like if they go online. So I think I would skew everything older. If I was trying to hang on the radio.
If the CEO,
Josh Janssen: [00:56:47] like if you had, if you weren't married to the license and you weren't married to even. Uh, radio was the thing. Cause there's a lot of great talent in radio stations, just from a storytelling, creativity, content, yes. Effective. Where do you think their place? Places? Not just like a bandaid fix where it's like, Oh look, we probably can squeeze a little bit out of this market for another five years before we're going to have to really.
Deal with this issue? What, like, what do you actually think for like, if it was a, if it was a strategy that was because a lot of these have podcasts, like SCA has podcasts assets, like podcasts when they're playing in this space. What what's the doubling down or what's the stripping back? Like, what's the specific advice that you would give as a CEO?
Andy Lee: [00:57:34] Um, I think you've got to find the shows which have a strong connection with their audience as, and they're building a community cause people like being a part of something. Um, and so that that'd be the, if, if you, you can look at your shows and go, Oh yeah, people love the feel and look and being a part of this odd, hang on to those.
Um, with regards to that, look, it's really hard to tell that there's a lot of shows you wonder with a lot of shows, like what type of listeners are jumping on and why? And I think that's. I think there was set and forget for a long time because everyone was just tuning into rider cause you drive alone.
But now you can with all the podcasts and Spotify and all those things in your car, Apple car play, you just got so many more of. So the, what is the reason to, to be, to be tuning into these people now a opposed to others. And I think that's a really hard question. I think again, it's about creating communities that you can get on board and be a part of.
Josh Janssen: [00:58:38] Makes sense. Thank you. Like, not only for, uh, being on the podcast twice, but you've, you've helped us a bunch off air as well, just from a. You know, uh, you're giving your perspective. Cause yeah, as I said, you've got that three pronged approach, which is super, super handy.
Tommy Jackett: [00:58:54] If we let go of anyone in our business, it's because Andy's been using the white board
Josh Janssen: [00:58:58] movies,
Andy Lee: [00:59:00] like the apprentice.
Yeah. I'm going to say yes. To a yes. Tick to Josh. It's amazing.
exactly what can we do with,
Josh Janssen: [00:59:14] tell me to put him into the yes.
Andy Lee: [00:59:16] Pile, but I'd definitely put a cross again after this episode. Yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:59:21] Uh,
Andy Lee: [00:59:22] guys love it. You gotta have you guys do it's. Um, it's fascinating. And, uh, yeah, you're ahead of the curve.
Josh Janssen: [00:59:27] Thanks, Andy. Uh, Andy has got a podcast called at Hamish and Andy. Uh, you should download it if you like otherwise.
We'll see you tomorrow. Guys. Have a good one.
See you guys.