Collaboration With Peter Shepherd & Scooter Derek

Derek: The Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 616. This weekend in banter, we got the Gronks back in the building. Scooter, Derek, and Peter Shepherd. Big Pete.

Josh: Did you forget his name?

Tommy: Absolutely not. There was a moment there. No, no, no, no, no. I was trying to go to which nickname we call you. Yeah, Peter Shepherd's just your name.

Josh: Yeah, Tall Gronk.

Derek: Tall Gronk.

Peter: Tall Gronk.

Tommy: Um, holy shit, it's Bigfoot. All of the above.

Josh: Um, this morning, 8 AM, I was on a Zoom call First ever? Yeah, first ever Zoom call where there was more than one person.

Peter: It was great. I saw JJ in the morning.

Josh: Yeah, different context.

Tommy: I mean, I wasn't there, but I saw the— who posted? Was that you, Pete? Did you post a photo of all the little faces?

Josh: Are you part of The Long and the Short of It?

Tommy: Ah yeah, that's right.

Peter: Yeah, shared it in our Facebook group.

Tommy: Yes, I saw that.

Josh: How many people were in there and what was it?

Peter: We had a what we're calling a learning lab. So once a month we're going to do this learning lab where we take one of the episodes and turn it into a 1-hour workshop, essentially in the interest of turning listening into learning. That's kind of the tagline. And so we beta tested it today with the closed Facebook group that we have. We had 50-odd sign up, 35-ish showed up, and about 3 or 4 had tech difficulties, which is always to be expected. So we ended up with about 30.

Josh: And so like a bright— it's like the Brady Bunch. You would love it, Scooter, because you've got like a screen and you see everyone It's like you've got security cameras for like 30 people's houses.

Peter: It's pretty cool. And they've got people from all corners of the world. So we had Scotland, we had England, we had obviously the States.

Derek: Who are the people?

Peter: Listeners of The Long and the Short of It podcast.

Derek: Do they have to have some particular tech?

Josh: They have to have a camera.

Peter: Yeah, basically a URL.

Derek: That's software.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah.

Derek: And you can have a webcam.

Peter: Yeah, it's like Skype, but it works.

Josh: Yeah.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: I see it works very well.

Tommy: Didn't we hear a radio ad for Zoom?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Far out.

Josh: They're really, they're pushing hard at the moment. Have they got an Australian team, do you know?

Peter: Not sure, but the origin storey is pretty cool. It's this Chinese guy was in a long-distance relationship and he got sick of the fact that Skype never worked properly, so he just built his own tech.

Josh: Why not?

Tommy: If you can. It's a lot of work. Since the relationship has gone to shit, he's now a millionaire and a playboy.

Peter: Well, yeah, yeah.

Josh: Well, he was FaceTiming another chick. Slightly better. Zooming.

Tommy: Zooming. Jeez. And how, what was the experience like for you the person running the workshop.

Peter: It was really cool. So we're like, this is the sort of thing that Jen and I both do in separate contexts quite a lot of, and as individuals. So it was the first, well, the second time we have done it together. And so we've both known that it works as that structure in that format as individuals, but it was the first time we took our listeners and worked with each other to build this thing. So it was like, is it going to work? And I think it did. It's really cool. So we're going to try and do one a month.

Josh: That's great. Scooter, you've been—

Derek: I want to do it so bad.

Peter: Come along to the next one. Yeah, yeah.

Josh: How's the studio stuff going?

Derek: It's going great. I've been thinking about hearing about these Zoom rooms.

Peter: Oh, mate, I'll show you all about it.

Derek: Are you in a Zoom room? Like your end?

Josh: Yeah. Yeah.

Tommy: And what's a Zoom room?

Josh: Well, I don't know.

Derek: Well, no, that's—

Tommy: well, so this is—

Josh: you're not in a Zoom room. Like a Zoom room's like the hard— are you getting excited about the hardware? Like you get like the camera and the compatibility.

Derek: They're installing them in a corporate facility.

Tommy: Yeah.

Derek: Like this room, you might make it a Zoom room.

Peter: Right.

Derek: I don't know exactly what it means.

Peter: It's like saying a Skype room.

Tommy: Yeah, I guess so.

Peter: Yeah.

Tommy: I was filming at SEEK yesterday. Someone was giving a keynote there, Lisa Stevenson, and we had a couple of cameras on her, but they actually broadcast it out through Zoom for the whole of the business around Australia. And I was like, where's the camera? And then all of a sudden, up in the corner, one of the cameras that you have, like those things, and then it's broadcast down, the audio goes in. I think that's like a Zoom room.

Josh: Well, this is why we want the big Hisense TV upstairs.

Tommy: Yeah, we need it because we need it to be our Zoom room.

Josh: Well, yeah, like we could— the Zoom room is essentially just the TV and the camera and stuff.

Peter: Yeah. So for me, my Zoom room was like my study. Yeah. My apartment.

Tommy: What'd you wear? Did you think about what you were going to wear or you just wore what you wear?

Peter: Pretty standard for Pete Shepherd, like a black tee because you can't really see from beyond the waist down.

Tommy: So was it a thought?

Peter: No, just black tee.

Josh: Did you get nervous?

Peter: Consistent. No, it was all good. Like I said, this is the sort of thing we do all the time. It was just different. Context, different people. So it was fun.

Josh: Anyone doing dating on Zoom?

Tommy: Speed dating through Zoom?

Josh: Yeah, so what happens?

Tommy: Surely Mr. Sev's— look it up, mate. So definitely would happen.

Josh: So the great thing about it is, is that just random the way that creates a room?

Peter: So there's a couple ways you can do it. You can— so you create these breakout rooms where you split people into like groups of 3, and so you can click and drag people around and like sort of select it.

Josh: Did you do that?

Peter: Click randomize. I clicked randomize.

Josh: And so I— so basically, Pete, what were some of the questions you asked?

Peter: We asked a question like, what's something you love about the project you're working on at the moment?

Josh: And then you press— you press the button and we go out into breakout rooms. And so everyone else disappears. They go into theirs and then you're with two other people.

Tommy: Oh, it's chat roulette with guidance and less dick.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No dicks.

Peter: No dicks. So we send you into like 12 separate breakout rooms and then you can broadcast a message to everyone. And then after 6 minutes, we'd pull everyone back.

Tommy: Do you know, did you— So, did you realise, Josh, that you were about to be sucked out of that room at 6 minutes?

Josh: So, it gives a timer. And interestingly, we had one person that was on the phone and she was having a little bit of technical difficulty. I wouldn't recommend the phone. I think it's good having the— Your face so you can be talking properly. It's good for the dynamics. But because there was only me and I had a lady named Abby from the UK, we finished up quicker and so we exited the room and we hit eject. And apparently Jen and people laughing because we're the first ones to sort of enter into the common area, which sort of implied that we weren't having great banter. And so then I waited. Can we confirm or do we not? It was great. And Abby and I decided that the next time around we'll just wait it out until we're forced into the room just so that people thought we're having really good banter. But we just sat there at the end, just awkwardly, just counting it down.

Derek: So thanks for coming.

E: No, it was really good.

Josh: Good fun. Yeah, I loved it. Yeah, but I think, Scooter, you should definitely—

Peter: yeah, I'm all over this. This is the future, Scooter. We talked about, I think it might have been one of the episodes I've been on, around like creating virtual conferences essentially. When at the moment you think about running a conference, the time, the cost, the energy to get thousands of people from around the world into the one place. Well, you can just have a URL and just click a button and like everyone's there.

Josh: Is there a marketplace for workshops? I could imagine Zoom having a website where you can go through and find different Zoom rooms and sign up.

Peter: That'd be cool.

Josh: Like, Sebbs, have you found any dating?

E: Yeah, I found two of them. One's on meetup.com. It gives you a little link. And then the other one is, it looks like it's expired, but it's a virtual online speed dating meetup group.

Josh: Would you do the first one that's still around, Sebbs, as a bit of a test? To lean in?

Tommy: You can't say no.

Derek: He always says yes, doesn't he?

Peter: I don't know what's happened when you add lean into the—

Tommy: Is your mic on?

E: Yeah, it's definitely on. It's in Minneapolis.

Derek: Did you freeze?

Josh: Oh, wait, so you can't hear?

Derek: Safe.

Josh: Are you on Zoom? Um, no, but is it not on Zoom?

E: No, it is on Zoom. It just says location Minneapolis.

Josh: That's okay. Yeah, because that's the whole point. I think it could be interesting. Like, there is something confronting though about having, you know, 30-odd people that you don't know and everyone's muting and Bree's trying to have a shower at the same time and use the hair dryer. And so she was sort of timing that around when I was unmuting.

Peter: So funny.

Tommy: It was—

Josh: I'm sorry.

Tommy: Yeah, you're actually talking at a real conference, like a real life conference this weekend, aren't you?

Peter: Yeah, on Sunday.

Tommy: Yeah, it's a Sunday. I was going to say that is tomorrow. Well, it is.

Peter: Yeah, the YouProject conference.

Tommy: And so, I mean, that's where you've got real people in front of you. Is there any, like, are we going to lose the— do you think that doing more digital stuff means that when you walk into a room of people you shit yourself even more based on, or is it the similar muscle?

Peter: Yeah, I don't know.

Derek: It's a good question.

Peter: Not me personally. But I wonder if people might— I mean, it's sort of the same concept, I guess, as people talk about the way we interact through social media and stuff now, or the younger generation, and then they can't have a conversation face to face. So maybe. But I think it's a similar muscle. And in fact, I actually think that Zoom requires more of a flex in the sense that you have to listen because, like, it's so obvious when someone is disengaged and it's so obvious when they're on their phone because you're just like this tiny square. Or this fairly large square. And so, like you would have seen this morning, if someone's completely disengaged, it's really obvious and really rude, as opposed to if you're having coffee with someone there on their phone, you're just kind of like, oh, that's what people do.

Josh: Definitely.

Tommy: You see anyone on their phones?

Josh: No, but the thing is, you aren't really looking around. I didn't realise there's like a grid mode. So initially I was in the speaker mode where you see Pete or whoever's talking, and then you just see a few people at the bottom, almost like a Google Hangout. And then there's the grid mode where is where it looks like The Brady Bunch.

Peter: But, um, and everyone's like looking at each other and so present trying to listen to what's happening.

Josh: And the— but I think one of the hard things as a speaker, like, I'm listening for laughs. Like, I'm always trying to get a laugh, but everyone's mic's on mute.

Derek: Yeah.

Josh: And so you don't hear the laugh, you don't hear anything.

Peter: So you get no feedback, you don't get no like auditory feedback.

Josh: People are laughing.

Peter: Well, that's why I'm very animated on Zoom, because like I feel like people look for body language. So if someone says something funny, I'll like throw my head back and laugh, which is sort of how I laugh anyway. But I think people appreciate it because they get the visual cues.

Tommy: What's wrong with Pete? Yeah, that's the breakout groups.

Josh: He actually got us to dance at the start. Is that guy—

Peter: oh, he ran across the Zoom room 5 times.

Josh: But you also said let's do a happy dance.

Peter: That was Jen. Okay, let's be clear about that.

Josh: Okay, so you do the walk— you're comfortable with asking people to walk around the room?

Peter: Yeah, just jump across the room 5 times.

Josh: You gotta get up and breathe. Like, what the fuck is Josh doing? He's trying to get ready.

Peter: I was curious whether you were going to do it. I thought you'd be the guy I just sat there like, I'm not doing this.

Josh: I lent in, I lent in. There was something that I— Oh yeah, everything I was doing for you. Like when I was doing the robot at the end.

Tommy: Yeah, he did the robot. That's his go-to though.

Josh: He does it a lot.

Peter: It looks so awkward.

Josh: It's great for the framing because you're in there the whole time you're in the box.

Tommy: Can you do a Mexican wave in the Zoom room?

Peter: I don't know.

Tommy: Want to try that next time?

Peter: I could, yeah, I like that.

Tommy: Everyone put it into grid mode. Person at the top left, you start.

Peter: The only thing is everyone's grid's different.

Josh: I didn't realise that.

Derek: That was my question. Did they see the same grid?

Peter: No, so it's like, I think it's based on who appears in the room first, and then it's based on when people start talking, they get like bumped up the grid. Really? So it's slightly different for everyone.

Josh: Because for me, I was like near the top of the grid, for me anyway, and it does create this weird sort of, um, power dynamic that I had to readjust where I'm like, I'm just a big top dog now. So there was Jen, me, then Pete.

Peter: Nice.

Josh: In my visual thing, I'm like, this isn't real, like this is being spun to me, but I bet you on everyone else's, I'm at the bottom.

Peter: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. So everyone's at the top similar on their own.

Peter: Usually you're in the top.

Tommy: Oh, that's great. Yeah, that's great. Gives you a bit of a ego boost.

Peter: On the power dynamic thing, there's an interesting concept. I think that when everyone's the same size based on the Brady Bunch view, it actually takes away the power dynamic of like, I'm the big dog in the boardroom sitting at the top end of the table.

Josh: Unless you're on page 2.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: Unless you have the biggest— If you can't fit, you're on page 2.

Derek: But then if you speak It must be the page one.

Peter: Okay, great.

Derek: But yeah, do you actually hold though?

Peter: Like, do you use that statement?

Derek: Oh, great power one. Do you, do you control who talks? You were saying they're on mute, so do you unmute them when you want them to talk?

Peter: Now people can unmute themselves, so you invite people to say, okay, we've got 5 minutes, if you want to hop off mute and ask a question, please do so now. And/or we can take people on and off mute as an admin because sometimes there's like a dog barking in the background and you're meet that.

Derek: And it's not always going to be a respectful audience like the Pete Shepherd gang.

Peter: Yeah, I mean, my audience is pretty respectful.

Derek: Yeah, but it could be—

Josh: if we've got the—

Peter: imagine a Zoom. Can you imagine? We should do it.

Josh: We should do it. Yeah, we could do that, uh, Sunday night or something for the book club. I thought it was a good one for that.

Derek: You could do it as an episode.

Peter: Yeah, put them all there.

Josh: Oh, that's a great idea.

Tommy: Oh yeah, we could get this feed audio into— could you somehow get that into Zoom?

Josh: Yep. Yeah, that wouldn't be terrible.

E: We can't hear anyone.

Tommy: That's all right.

Josh: What do you mean can't hear?

E: I'm sorry, they can't.

Josh: Oh yeah, sure, just over the mix minus.

Tommy: Um, let's put a little headphone in, put in the AirPod. AirPod?

Josh: How would we do it?

Tommy: Um, can we get a live coaching session with you and Scooter Derek? Scooter Derek being the client, Pete Shepherd doing some coaching.

Josh: Because you want that, you've been saying that you want— he wants to have— yeah, Harper.

Derek: I'm up for milking all the talent you have on your show to sort my life out. Yeah.

Josh: And so you want to—

Derek: I just want the historical facts.

Josh: Okay, great. Do we do one for one?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: All right, great. Just be on mute. Yeah.

Tommy: So one coaching question for one historical fact about Alex and Collingwood.

Josh: Yeah, great.

Tommy: Richmond area.

Josh: Yeah. So you've just, you've just, you've, would this be, you do most of your coaching through Zoom or would it be?

Peter: 95%. Even with clients I have in Australia, I prefer Zoom because they, don't have to leave their office or room, and neither do I. It just makes it easier. Less friction.

Josh: No, I get that. Okay, so feel free to—

Derek: friction here between our legs.

Peter: So Scooty D, what are you working on?

Derek: Current project is, apart from putting air conditioner in Studio One, is building a new studio.

Peter: Okay.

Derek: Essentially a Zoom room.

Peter: Yeah.

Derek: Yeah.

Peter: What does it look like?

Derek: Well, it's— at the moment it looks like an empty warehouse, right? And it's going to be awesome. Big table that'll be like a panel type, like elliptical. I think I haven't told Josh yet, but I'm thinking of going like an American football shape.

Josh: We get obsessed with desk shapes, don't we? Look what we ended up with.

Derek: You know what, the word plectrum actually entered my mind yesterday.

Josh: Yeah, we didn't—

Derek: I could go plectrum. Too hard, too hard, too hard. But American football so that you can use it as a 5 minimum 5-person with an audience.

Josh: The American football, just a rectangle, or is it got a rectangle? No, the field is a rectangle. I thought you meant the field. Okay, go on. Yeah, because the AFL football, like, field is an oval, but American football is a rectangle. But you're talking about the actual ball. Continue.

Derek: The ball itself. So, so you can have a live audience, a controlled live audience of 30 to 40 people.

Josh: What's an uncontrolled live audience, by the way?

Derek: Is when you say, yeah, come on in, anybody. Controlling it is, you were saying, like, let's say you're a comedian and you just want to do a podcast, but you need some audience reaction. You contact your people on your list and go get the big gigglers in.

Josh: Yeah, cool.

Peter: So you're building a new studio.

Derek: Building a new studio and Still going through ideas.

Peter: All right. And what is—

Derek: got the keys yesterday.

Peter: Okay, that's exciting. So what does success look like for the studio? What's the idea behind it?

Derek: I reckon the way I, the way I always work, I don't know if it's clever or not, is, is have a, have a dream goal, but work out the steps to try and get there within my bad management style.

Peter: Self-righteous.

Derek: Right, that's how I got the current studio up and running. You know, the steps. Would be to make it a multi-use room and rent it out to people, same as I did with my, with my podcast studio. And eventually I'd like to have it as a— yeah, to operate as a, like, as a Zoom room, right?

Josh: So the Zoom room is that big corporate Zoom room before today, because if your whole strategy has become the Zoom room, I think a Zoom room is their brand, so I don't So what I mean is it's gotten serious. A live, deadly, a lot like Skype room, Skype, Zoom, Google Hangout, a live streaming room.

Derek: That's, that's how I'd like to—

Peter: that's the big goal.

Derek: That's the big goal.

Peter: And you mentioned the small first step was the just get some people to bloody rent it out for like shooting videos.

Derek: And so it's going to have, you know, multi-rolls that you can roll down for different backgrounds and green screen and all that. We'll see how it goes. I've been pushing everyone, including Josh. Everyone that comes near in any kind of entertainment gets pushed in there.

Josh: And what do you think?

Tommy: You said 40 people. Can it fit 40 people in there?

Derek: I just did some math.

Josh: Fire hazard.

Derek: But you get a— that's a later goal, making it legal. But you could definitely—

Josh: that's true. Like most things, like What about like the bar that you had? Was that ever legal?

Tommy: It was also 20 years ago.

Derek: It was also the same room.

Tommy: 20 or 30 years ago.

Derek: That was illegal, yeah. Yeah.

Peter: So what, where are you stuck?

Derek: But it wasn't illegal because no one bought any drinks.

Peter: Cool. So I mean, it all sounds good, but where are you stuck?

Derek: I'm not.

Peter: What's the hard part?

Derek: I'm cruising. I'm on top of the world.

Peter: Cool. So what's the hard part?

Derek: I'm 53, no super, still got to pay the mortgage and come home with some money every week. It's pretty normal.

Josh: Ask your wife. Is this why we're on the same show so you can give me That Apple Watch?

Peter: Because I heard that's mine.

Derek: You know, this is the one you gave to me. I don't know what happened to your original.

Josh: Well, he's got a Whoop now.

Peter: It's my gift to you.

Derek: Thank you. Appreciate it.

Josh: Oh, well, that's good that you're not stuck annoying from a client.

Tommy: No, no, no, no.

Peter: That's great.

Derek: Oh, look, I will be stuck.

Tommy: It's the first question.

Josh: Oh, so yeah.

Tommy: It's always bullshit what they answer, right?

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: Oh, that's toxic masculinity. Yeah, why are you trying to be so tough?

Derek: Mansplaining.

Tommy: Or the signal was that he said he's got no super. And cackled like it was almost a cry.

Josh: Yeah, it didn't look that much.

Peter: There's a lot of pain behind that answer, I think.

Tommy: Ask the second question.

Derek: Yeah. I think, yeah, I think these type sessions should end with you writing a cheque for the equivalent of what my super should be at this age. No, the big— where I'll be stuck, it's pure— where I'm stuck is I can't do that business thing. When I see young people just getting funding and doing stuff, I go, oh.

Tommy: Who are these people though?

Derek: You guys are pretty good. When it's a fun away game or something.

Tommy: Yeah, that's— I'm just—

Derek: You guys are admirable for different reasons. You're not in that, that getting fund. You work hard for your funding, right? But I just see, you see people get funding, they have an idea like the bike, the bicycle e-bike company that are in the back of my building. They sublet off me and they, they, you know, they're just young folk who went, here's our idea, let's get some money.

Josh: And so where's the money from?

Derek: I'm stuck because I can't collaborate, can I? I want to.

Peter: So is it collaborating or is it raising money?

Josh: Can I? And then before we could answer, no, I can't. Don't answer that.

Derek: Well, I, I realised Pete was here. I was like, better be honest. No, I can't collaborate.

Josh: Why can't you collaborate?

Derek: I don't know where the money is. Whose question?

Josh: Oh, sorry.

Peter: Yeah, that's just great. I think it's turning into group coaching.

Josh: It's a nightmare.

Derek: I reckon it'll be all right because I do have some other business going on and it, you know, with the advising with some schools and some technical work.

Peter: Right.

Derek: And there's a few quotes out there. So it could— I could be— I could self-fund the whole project.

Peter: Okay.

Derek: Maybe. But if I don't, then I'm stuck with this room. I'm going to have to rent it out as a yoga studio.

Josh: What do you like? What do you actually want? Like from a collaboration point of view? I think that part of the reason, like, we would collaborate more, but it's— you've— you're still trying to figure out what you want. Is that fair?

Derek: But so remember last time we were talking about how you said, but you have collaborated, you collaborate with Danny on your show. So we do a podcast. I started the podcast, I produce it, edit it, do the graphics and everything.

Josh: And Danny's on the show and does, you know, if you only just started calling him Danny.

Derek: I used to call him Danny in the '80s. Dan.

Josh: And then I went, oh yeah, we were still waiting for my historical fact.

Derek: Is that a— but I did tell, I did, I told you this. So I, when we decided to collab and I hadn't done this, I remember that feeling of ringing, ringing him up saying, Danny, I'm really sorry, I just made an arbitrary decision. And I'm unaccustomed to ever having to talk to anyone about that. Probably why I'm in trouble with my wife a lot of the time, because that is a collab, I guess. But just confirming it is.

Peter: Yeah.

Derek: But yeah, there was that moment when I realised I just decided to go and, you know, try out some advertising thing and put the money in. And he's like, oh, okay, don't worry about it. I'll give you half the money. I went, oh, that's the good side of collabing. Someone else is wearing the stress and stuff like that. So I learned from that that it is lovely to have someone else who cares involved in something. It's really nice.

Josh: And so why don't you do more of it?

Derek: Jealous of you too.

Josh: Well, you can do it. You're— we're collabing right now.

Derek: You start bickering and then—

Josh: yeah, it's a pain in the ass. But what's it like if you were to do more collabing? What would that look like?

Derek: Well, I don't know. It's not my natural thing.

Josh: So is it not natural because you can't rely on people? I don't know.

Derek: I guess if I look at the idea I've got for this, say, the Studio Two, and I go, all right, what do I need off someone else? Someone who's keen, who wants to get into it. Is it someone who's gonna muck in and build, or someone just forks out some cash? Like, what do I want out of someone?

Peter: Yeah, I think what's it like? What's collaboration?

Derek: Are they going to make it 3 times better? Yeah, what's— what—

Josh: so what's it for for you?

Peter: Why, why collaborate? How does that help?

Derek: Feels good. I just want to do something that is a collab, you know. I just like to work. I've been loving it. Yeah, but I don't know, I just—

Josh: and a Zoom room. Zoom room and a collab.

Derek: Oh, Zoom room. Yeah.

Josh: So I find the collab thing interesting because I get it, because it— but it's very hard to collaborate with someone. You need to do a lot of work internally in understanding what you want But also, like, you can't change your idea. I can't. When you're doing it on your own, you can just go from one area to the other. You can like be extremes and just do whatever you want. When you're collaborating with someone, everything, like the biggest amount of tension I have is the annoyance of like, I need to explain myself, which I normally don't have to explain myself, but that's a good thing to go through. Is that part of it? So if you ask for money, what are people going to ask you?

Derek: Well, then you— if someone, if someone says, all right, I'll be in that, I've got dough and no talent, then you'd kind of go, let's leave that to the last minute and see if I can get through, because you're not going to provide anything except taking half the, the profit, I guess. And then you think, well, is half the profit of something that's done properly and invested in properly it's going to be more— should be more than double, you know what I mean? So it should help. When I had the bar, that was the last time I was in— like, the only time I was in a business with someone. I was in business with two other guys and they couldn't get along because they had completely different dreams. So it was a complete disaster. Maybe that was it.

Josh: What were the different dreams?

Derek: Well, one of my business partners was, um, he wanted— he wanted the bar to be like St. Jude. He wanted to be a wine bar. He wanted to be the kind of bar that he would go to and just be really proud of. But that would have required us all to chuck in $150 grand each, and none of us had any money. So it was like, so number one, your dream, fuck it off, save it for another day. But then the other one, the other business partner, rest his soul, he's gone now, but he was, um, he liked the idea of just having a bar and serving Carlton Draught and being rude to people that wanted a coffee and, you know, that old school, because he came from that old vibe.

Tommy: And what did you want?

Derek: Well, I was kind of in the middle. I wanted personality. I wanted to, you know, to, to make the place where everyone was happy, in which case that favoured the Carlton Draft guy. And but they couldn't get along because it was like, well, we couldn't run this bar without them, without Andrew, right, being manager every day unpaid or whatever, you know, just as a shareholder.

Josh: Yeah.

Derek: And turning up every single day because we can't afford to pay anyone. In the end, it kind of worked out like Andrew and I ended up, right, well, let's buy, let's buy Dave out, right? He, you know, it's not going to work, he's unhappy. So we bought him out for virtually nothing and released him, and then, and then sold the business.

Peter: I feel like we're getting closer to your definition of success. Scoot. So getting out of it, there's a question that I think JJ answered really well this morning in the workshop that we ran that I'd be curious for your thoughts on. So I just transferred you $10 million. Now you have no excuse around time and money. You're living in a world with no constraints. What are you going to do tomorrow or in the next few weeks? Or what are you going to do with your time once you buy your holiday house and do all that? Once you've got the material stuff, original— what are you going to do with your time?

Derek: Yeah. Yeah, I think I would. I probably— it feels like I would run with the same plan.

Peter: That's good.

Derek: But in a building that I owned, and obviously much better. But I don't know if I can own— even own a building. Can you make it 20 mil? It's Collingwood.

Josh: You're a greedy fuck, Ross.

Peter: Sorry. And so there was no mention of collaborators in that version of the future. So I wonder if there's something there around you being attached to this idea of a collaboration when you're not actually clear in that whether that's what you're seeking. It's just because we get to watch Tommy and Josh and go, that looks cool.

Derek: Yeah, well, they are— that is surely that would put me straight into another, um, mind-bending situation where you go, if someone wanted to collaborate with you after they knew you had $20 million.

Peter: Yeah, right.

Derek: Even though you'd already spent $6 million on a warehouse, then you'd start with that kind of gold digger feel and you go, oh, I don't know how my mind would go from there. We'll never know. Yeah, but I definitely would. There'd be people around. This is not my dream, would not be to be in a warehouse tinkering with all my millions and making it perfect. Then I would— I guess it ends up being staff, doesn't it?

Josh: Well, yeah, so there's a difference between when you've got— well, this is what we've been talking about, the difference between employees and part— having a partnership. They're very different employees. I can tell 97, hey, I think we should do this, and he can push back a little bit, but at the end of the day, he does what we think we should do. Yeah, Tommy and I, it's like, okay, no, like, we bring— we have to sell it into each other, we have to justify it. And so there's a big difference between having staff, having people come in and use your space, versus having a partner, I think. Do you think that you could— are you seeking a partner? Are you seeking, uh, that employee team that can execute on a dictatorship?

Derek: It just feels like a bit much to, to have to at this stage of life. To have to be, especially if I was rolling with a multimillion-dollar business, then it would be a bit much to then have to be an expert at accounting, an expert at cinematography, an expert at audio.

Josh: I—

Derek: you just have to load people in. You have a team, have a team and then learn off them. Love that, that idea, learning off your staff.

Peter: That's— I think that's—

Derek: I did that back in the, in the '90s. I had a manufacturing business and I'd learnt all my blacksmithing skills off my staff.

Peter: You raise a fair point, though. I guess the question is like, can you collaborate with an employee? I think you can. Yeah.

Josh: Well, I think that that's the whole co-creation thing, right? Like, that's the new— I joke about the dictatorship because it's very much like when we're working with 97, he is giving us the— he's telling us this is how I think we should do it.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: Um, but it is— there's definitely a difference in the, the different dynamics.

Peter: Totally.

Josh: And what did you find, Scooter, having staff? Are you a bit burnt by that? Like, do you think that all these sort of experiences play into where you are now?

Derek: I reckon one of the biggest mistakes you can make is making a vow. I'm vowing never to do this or never to do that.

Tommy: It's marriage. Yeah, I made my vows.

Derek: Do you know my marriage vows, on a side note, included the line, and I will pay the, the bill for this wedding at the, at the, at the office, right? Because we got married in a registry office in Paisley, Scotland.

Peter: Nice.

Derek: It was kind of a little bit—

Josh: there was like a contract as well.

Derek: And they just, they just, you just run through the vows and I got to the end and we're reading it and say, did that also say I'll, I'll pay my bill?

Josh: Yeah, did they have to— is it like a verbal contract they got you to read out?

Derek: I guess it was.

Tommy: I was part of it.

Peter: Wow, so you read it without realising that's what you were reading?

Josh: Just read it.

Tommy: Oh my goodness, ideal made for radio.

Josh: It was live reads.

Peter: Let's just read that, don't worry about it.

Derek: But I think it felt like he really meant it.

Peter: I feel like you had a good point back there before your vows, which was like you need to be able to give yourself permission to change your mind. Yeah, that's how I interpret what you're saying, which I think is really important.

Derek: Yeah, cool.

Josh: And so what's next?

Derek: Just roll on. We just roll on.

Josh: Because that's what I find interesting is like meetings or conversations. You can have a lot of conversations, but if there's no clear defined action, yeah, you end up having the same fucking conversation again in a week or two weeks. Is there, is there a stage within your coaching sessions where you define it?

Peter: Yeah, I think at the end of a coaching session or of a like a conversation like we had this morning in that group session. It's like, what are you going to commit to me if it's one-on-one? Or what are you going to commit to the group to doing in the next 24 hours? Or what are you going to commit to doing in the next week? What are you going to commit to doing next month? Like, you can pick a time frame and having them say that out loud or write it down and then holding them to that.

Tommy: What about for you, Scooter? Have you ever written down, like, for this new studio too, have you actually written down what this looks like, what it's going to be, where you want it to be? No, because you give us a version and incorporate things like Zoom room and shit that we've just said.

Josh: Like, that's why Josh is saying, you know, well, because I've never heard the term Zoom room.

Tommy: I think it's—

Derek: I know a friend of mine set up, set up all the Zoom, you know, big buildings. She told me all about Zoom. And yeah, start with—

Peter: I would start with a bit of paper, right? What's it for? Who's it for? What does success look like? And just answer those 3 questions.

Tommy: Because then it's out of your head. Because I think we do a great job of internally thinking we're across what we want to be doing. Yeah, for the future. But until you're having to tell a business partner or tell your wife or tell, you know, anybody— like, talk about on this, I, I mean, I'm, I, I'm not no good at it as much as the next person is.

Josh: I think it's like, what's the biggest amount of friction or tension within our businesses, which is like I said, it's all good. You can have this thought, but how do you commit to it? Like, the committing to it is putting it into the page because then it's like, then you can also externalise it from you and you can look at it in a different way. So, when it's in your head, you are connecting dots, you're synthesising and it's getting stronger every time you mention it. Every time you talk about it, it is getting stronger.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And it just, it works tenfold when you've written it down because then that's when you can start to edit and that's when you can start to also make it less about identity and anxiety and all the other things that drive us and makes it more about the plan.

Tommy: Which is entrepreneurs creating a startup have the one line of their business, which like that kind of school of startups, that part of it I like, which is super clear on what your business is, the thing it solves, the problem it solves. And where are you going?

Peter: Yeah, I think that two of the most underrated things that we can do, which we're sort of talking about now, is one, write. And I've heard you talk about before, Josh, like thinking is writing or writing is thinking. You actually realise you're not writing down what's in your head, but when you're writing, you're actually starting to think about it more.

Derek: Yeah.

Peter: So I would say that's one. And the other is talking about things out loud, which I think is why so many people get value out of a coach, because it's talking about your thoughts out loud and actually saying things out loud that you've thought about but you haven't articulated.

Derek: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because what I do do, what I've been saying, pushing everyone into that room, sitting here going on about it. Yeah, it's sort of partly backing myself into a corner and going, making myself believe in it really that I can do it because it's pretty expensive paying the rent in there just while I make it up.

Peter: Yeah, this is great.

Derek: Definitely. The more I say, the more it evolves what it's going to be like today. Zoom room was added to the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. Because we talked about this, whereas I had intentions of doing it but not going on about it. But something funny happened before. I was doing a bit of a consult just about an hour ago. Um, funny day, Sunday, to do it.

Josh: But anyway, no, it's a good show. If you're gonna bullshit the day, just at least get it right. Sunday pizza, these fucking talk. Sunday we've got my mum and dad.

Derek: Anyway, I was— so I was doing a bit of a consult and it made me objectively look at Studio One. Which is eclectic and it's nuts. There's records, vinyls. Yeah, it's kind of— I like it. It's clean. It's got a brand new aircon.

Josh: And how's the aircon going, by the way?

Derek: It's so good.

Tommy: Split system?

Derek: Split system. Silent Mitsubishi, silent.

Josh: What was the cost that we got air moving in the studio?

Peter: That old studio, how hot that was.

Josh: I think it was like 3.5 grand.

Tommy: No, no, no, it didn't.

E: It was only 2-something.

Tommy: 2 grand. Installed.

Derek: What hurts when you rent is when they say the unit's $1,000, the installation's $2,000. Yeah, because the installation is—

Josh: it's the labour with the building.

Derek: Yeah, it's not your building sort of thing. It hurts. Anyway, I stood there and I was— I'd be telling the client about the next studio, and I stood there, mine, we're talking about mic stands and setups and stuff like that. And then I had that moment when I probably thought, right, I have to design that room because otherwise it's just going to be me putting things in here, leftover equipment. Yeah, it's just going to build up and I'm going to put everything in there before I've done the floor that I want and all that sort of thing. So that was a kind of epiphany.

Josh: I won't have that cohesion. The interesting thing, I reckon an idea is like a rock and the end of the day you want it to get to a pebble. And so by having the constant friction of speaking about it, writing it out, editing it, is starting to slowly smooth it out. And I think that you do one of it really well, which is the speaking. And it's the same with me. I'm constantly talking about it, which is doing that. But then it feels like that final polish is the, the written down.

Derek: You mean a pebble that's the same size as the original rock? Well, is that your metaphor?

Josh: I was imagining your idea was a rock, and by the end of the day it's this little tiny—

Derek: No, well, is it?

Tommy: Another one is a sharp— a broken piece of glass goes into the sand.

Josh: Pebbles are just rocks, aren't they?

Tommy: Not necessarily.

Josh: What is a pebble, Seb?

Derek: I thought—

Tommy: I thought it's a rock, isn't it?

Josh: You know, pebbles— I just assumed— this is my understanding of pebbles— a pebble is, is, uh, for, you know, hundreds of years have been hit by the water and all the different sort of things to get to a very smooth, almost like a dog, uh, Dagango.

E: Dorodango.

Josh: Dorodango.

E: I was actually thinking about that while you were speaking about your analogy.

Josh: Yeah, I didn't want to bring up the dorodango. It's very similar to a dorodango.

Peter: I have no idea what a dorodango is.

Tommy: Broken piece of glass that then starts to be in the water in the sea and starts to soften and form sort of like a nice rounded edges. Yeah, that's how when you find a piece of glass that's been in the ocean, it's exactly what you're saying. It's been washed and sort of eroded around the edges.

Josh: Sea glass. So, the dorodango is a Japanese— It's a— It's basically—

Tommy: It's a mud ball.

Josh: Yeah, it's a mud ball.

Tommy: It's just been smoothened.

Josh: Smoothened?

Tommy: Smoothed. Smoothed out and it looks just like a ball.

Josh: But there's a lot of— Yeah.

E: But it's shiny. Yeah.

Peter: Cool.

Josh: So, you use glass basically to polish it. And so, it starts off a bit rough and then over a long period of time, you end up with this really nice smooth ball and you can put it on like a stand or things like that.

Peter: It's very nice.

Josh: Anyway, how do you feel?

Tommy: It's good, isn't it?

Derek: Is it something that— is it just— does it self-destruct?

Josh: Like, does it—

Tommy: the dango is—

Derek: is that the art of it, making something that's like a mandala? You know, mandala?

Tommy: No, you just throw that thing against the wall.

Derek: They do that mandala thing that takes weeks and weeks and it looks beautiful, and then the whole point is just sand on the floor and it's not forever.

Josh: No, a dango you keep in your, you know, your Daylesford home or wherever you—

Tommy: but I think— so what about this?

Josh: Next to the wine.

Tommy: If you naturally, you go to talking about something.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: The harder thing is to write it down and actually— yeah, but there's people that get to the success, whatever it is for them, by doing the writing first and then talking, because the talking is informed by the writing. And so there is both versions, and I think we naturally gravitate to the one that's easy.

Peter: Totally.

Tommy: And easy is to talk about it, but it doesn't mean that you don't find success by just— it's like people who've not worked out their, their, the business but somehow they're making shitloads of cash and so they haven't got their, you know, fine marketing plan. It's like, doesn't mean you can't find success.

Josh: It's like Cliffy.

Tommy: Cliffy?

Josh: Cliffy was a farmer. You would know about Cliffy.

Derek: Cliff Young?

Tommy: Yep.

Derek: Who ran with the gumboots on?

Josh: Yeah. So Cliff Young, a runner, a country boy, a farmer, ran 97. Can you tell us how far?

Peter: I'm finally getting my historical fact. This is great.

Josh: So Cliff Young ran a huge distance in gumboots. Good on him.

E: Won the whole Sydney to Melbourne ultra marathon in 1983.

Derek: Sydney to Melbourne?

E: At 61 years old.

Derek: And he was like, oh, that's right.

Tommy: What a weapon.

Derek: And so, so Cliff shuffled along.

Josh: Yeah.

Peter: And so he did more than shuffle, I would have thought.

Josh: So he had some of the worst running technique that you could imagine in anyone. And he had the gumboots on.

Peter: So what's the message? The moral?

Josh: So the message is that you can still win. With horrendous technique. Yeah, win ugly.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: And so the question, the question becomes, do you, um, there is a balance. Some people will spend, there are people who are probably theorising around the perfect run, the perfect, you know, working out their cadence and all that sort of shit. Yeah, that's what you do with running, I don't know, pebbles. Um, or there's just getting out there and doing it. And so I think that that's a balance. I think you are like Cliff I'd rather be too young than Bradbury.

Derek: Yeah.

Josh: What did Bradbury do? You don't want everyone just to fall over.

Peter: He won by default, basically.

Derek: Yeah.

Peter: Well, he persisted.

Josh: Well, I don't think that's going to happen. I think the thing is, he was in the grand final of the Olympics.

Derek: The poor guy.

Peter: What would have been interesting is an example.

Derek: He got to the Olympics.

Tommy: He did all the training.

Derek: Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: He won fair and square.

Peter: Yeah.

Derek: Yeah.

Josh: Well, so you're just— you're thinking that every studio potentially fails and then yours is the only one left.

Derek: No, he won. He was going to go to reference that and he—

Tommy: I get that. But then you, you're saying you have to be the best in the field because Cliffy was the best. He actually was the best. He won the race.

Derek: Exactly. I'd rather be Cliffy than Stephen Bradbury.

Peter: Yeah, but where's Cliffy?

Tommy: Best in the business.

Josh: Which is—

Peter: yeah, I think this is an interesting— like, to continue the metaphor or the storey of Cliffy is like you can win ugly and so many businesses and people and individuals do. They focus on the short term of like, I'm going to win and make $1 million as quick as possible. And then they completely fry themselves and ruin the rest of their lives. So I'm not saying that's happened to Cliffy, but I dare say that not having any technique is probably not a great idea.

Derek: But if you came in, he became a superstar.

Peter: Okay, well, if he did, I'll just stand down.

Josh: Yeah, I've never heard of it. Yeah, can you look at who made that film? I think there was a document, uh, a film made. I think it was Dean Murphy, but the director.

Tommy: So then with that thinking, you want the best, you want to win the race and be the best at what you're doing, or—

Derek: Yeah, this one. Yeah. What I do next, I'm gonna be— I'm already the best at what I'm doing right now. So it's just about that field, but, but I've always made a field that is so narrow. Yeah.

Josh: Do you think the industry has changed?

Derek: Scooter mechanic in, in Victoria.

Josh: But do you think that I can say that the thing with podcasting and all this stuff is it's like it encompasses so much So it's like, you think about it, like mechanics— there's no corporates that are wanting to become mechanics. But if you look at it now, podcasting is this universal thing. And so all these subcultures are here. You've got coaching, you've got corporate stuff, you've got artists, you've got all the indies, you've got every different type. Um, and it's funny because you see people, you know, in their, in their suits rocking up to your eclectic studio, is that if you work out what your competitive advantage is, like, do you want to create the corporate Zoom room that's all white and that's corporately— corporate and safe, or do you want to do your— do you want to continue to be the random dude that you are?

Derek: No, I think the flaw of the corporate— the corporate Zoom room is the white clinical shit. That's the problem. Yeah, when I say Zoom room, I mean the technical stuff that's in the room.

Josh: And so you want to bring person— is it bringing personality?

Derek: More like a theater. But Studio Two will not be like Studio One. It won't have record collection and Mexican wrestling masks.

Josh: It won't be just your— because at the moment it's like your dead man.

Derek: Well, I call it acoustic treatment. More stuff on the shelf. Yeah, I think you'll agree. Or there's called the less the reflex.

Tommy: The hard bit is Cliffy won a race. The race is very defined here to here, people doing the same thing as you. The thing about business, it's so varied. Like, what we're doing is unique. What you're doing is— you—

Peter: so that's not a fine— okay, yeah, no one—

Tommy: like, no one's doing identically what you're doing. And so then it's like, if you are to be That's where I think the definition of I want to be the best— I don't know, it's not clear.

Derek: No, what you— there's another, there's another thing, and that's getting— if I'm not used to being in an industry that's contemporary, I'm unaccustomed. I was a blacksmith and I was a Vespa mechanic, right? So I'm not accustomed to being on the cutting edge of what, what's happening in society, right? But having said that, there is a kind of a race against time. To get to a point where you're the boss, you know, like where you're a senior in that, you know, like a, a legend in that field or whatever you want.

Josh: The 10,000-hour sort of thing.

Derek: 5 years ago, suddenly 6 people came from Italy and Germany everywhere and set up scooter workshops for vintage scooters. I would have been okay. If 8 years ago they did, I wouldn't have been okay. Because I got into that, you know, that respected position where they go, oh, he's the old man of the, of the industry, knows what he's doing. I'll go to him and ask him questions and stuff like that. I think that's going to help me.

Josh: Is that certain?

Derek: My age, I'm not a 30-year-old kind of gun entrepreneur.

Josh: So when you've decided to take the shift and you move, like, does, does that, uh, that status that you've built in that industry, what happens to it?

Derek: It just goes away. It's lost.

Josh: And what did it— what does it make you think about that status or that, that game of getting to that position?

Derek: It lets you know— reminds me of what I, you know, when I was 28, I went and lived in London. And you really going to a complete different city on your own and building friendships and work relationships and all this stuff was I think it was massive for my— for all kinds of things psychologically, because you're getting that— there's no historical friendships.

E: There's no—

Derek: you've, you've built up a whole life right there and then. There's no one that you went to school with and they're still being nice to you because you were friends, or there's no family. There's no one else. You could— yeah, 2 years later you're going, right, I really think that I'm okay. I'm not just carrying residual people being kind to me or whatever, you know. If you had any lack of confidence, it goes away. Yeah, if you do well, you know, some people just go home miserable because they had a rough time. But, but that kind of thing where I've, I've got that same feeling. I totally, it's really proud of what I've done in the scooter industry and where I got to, um, but I'm just walking away.

Josh: Is there a cleaner— like, do you have a sense that you want to close that chapter?

Derek: Closing the chapter is interesting, and I'm not quite sure what to do because there's— you can't find someone else to do it. So I've got clients that say, but where am I supposed to go? And you either feel responsibility, and I have said a couple of times, look, mate, the $100 an hour you paid me to fix your scooter, I used to fix your scooter. I didn't put it aside so that you'd own me for the next 10 years, you know, like you I'm not responsible.

Peter: What's this?

Josh: Yeah, mate, is this toxic masculinity?

Tommy: Are you drinking?

Derek: Come here, I'll shake it out of you. No, but you feel that way, and I did say it one time.

Tommy: Yeah, but the bloke's— my Vespa's still broken.

Derek: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: No, but I'm on the ladder, I can't talk right now.

Tommy: What you're saying is you're actually— it's— you're saying no to opportunity. It's like you're saying no to money, so it's all saying no to income.

Josh: But also that status thing, do you think that— so people felt that you owed them something potentially?

Derek: People think, well, you're— if you're the only one that's doing it and you stop doing it, people get upset. Whether rationally, whether they really are upset with you or whether they're just upset, that's another thing. I'm, I'm trying to find— I'm, I'm at the moment in the process of picking a few people that can do the work and discussing with them whether they'd be willing to do some scooter work and sort of busting it out. The brand is— I can't save the brand.

Josh: Well, because you always talk about the clear kind thing, you know, clear is kind. Do you think you've been clear with your clients and the industry?

Derek: Shit house. I really feel guilty. And so because I haven't put out an APB, I haven't put out a press release from Matlock Police, I think. But, but I haven't put out any— all points bulletin, I think, is a cop thing.

Peter: I've lost.

Derek: I haven't made any statements at all to anyone.

Josh: What's an ATP?

E: You put it out when a person is missing or whatever and you want to find them.

Josh: Strutha Derek has gone missing.

Peter: Wanted sign.

E: Yeah.

Peter: Dead or alive.

Josh: Are you sure you didn't grow up in Sovereign Hill? You're a blacksmith, you're doing ATPs.

Tommy: A video press release you could probably do.

Josh: Oh yeah, that'd be fun.

Derek: But yeah, it is on my list. It's on my list. You know, when I'm excited by something, it's very hard to do the old thing.

Josh: But I reckon probably knowing my own feeling with even like working out what to do with Full Stack and all that stuff like this shit, and even Melbourne Geek, like when I decided I'm just going to shut that down, it felt fucking great.

Derek: You're still getting hits on the, uh, cat versus grasshopper.

Josh: Yeah, I watched that yesterday.

Tommy: I mean, the habit, like, I went from owning a personal training studio to severing that and working in radio. Sure, I got a full-time wage though, so I was like— but it— you had to cut it off. There's no more training. Yeah, that's like people dabbling in it. If you're still doing anything, yeah, that's the problem.

Derek: I, I put out the— look, I've been putting out the, the information I've been putting out verbally has been, no, I'm still doing it. Now I'm still doing it. And that's just like politics, isn't it? Because they lie and lie and lie till the election. Is it because that's what I did?

Josh: Why?

Derek: Because I wasn't confident. I wasn't sure whether, whether the podcasting thing was gonna go bananas, and it has. So now, now there's a few clients that I'll remain, and then I'll clear it.

Tommy: For what reason?

Derek: They're my friends. Okay, you can do that.

Peter: This is why the question, what does success look like for Scoot, is so important. Because it sounds like you've got it in your head, but you just haven't put it anywhere. Because when you put it somewhere, then you can start communicating in a clear way so that less people come to you and say, can you just fix my scooter for $100?

Tommy: Yeah, you could literally read off a piece of paper. No, sorry, you get a success for me.

Josh: That would be—

Tommy: in coaching, do you actually— could you— would you write out a plan? Like, do you write this out? Is that something you've helped people with, Pete? Like, someone like Derek actually wanting to synthesise his thoughts and have you articulate it on paper?

Peter: Not through a— not through like a 12-step Pete's program, more just like fluid. My favourite 3 are the ones we talked about. If you can get clear on a bit of paper What's it for? Who's it for? What does success look like? I reckon that goes a long, long way because that becomes your filter for all of the decisions that you make.

Derek: Yeah.

Peter: Is this going to help me with that? No. In which case, too bad. If it is cool, let's do it.

Josh: And it's the common thing too, like Colisteade, who founded Envato, you know, he had a 100+ person business, you know, running Envato and was still dealing with old web hosting clients that he had. From like 10 years ago. And so he's dealing— like, he's dealing with a business that was, you know, doing tens of millions of dollars every year, and he was dealing with a few thousand dollars worth of annoying clients. And so, but there's so much value in being able to tie it up because then it gives so much freedom. I think that that's what I'm like— that simplifying process, there's a lot of power in it. All right, that's a Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: How do you feel, Derek?

Derek: Feel great.

Peter: Fired up.

Derek: A bit of paper. Ironically, do you know what the first thing in my series of, uh, you know, tech podcast tip videos that I haven't made yet— but do you know what the first one is on my Trello note? Is the most important podcast tool. Which one is that?

Josh: Zoom.

Derek: Piece of paper and a pencil.

Josh: Seriously, full circle. Yeah, get yourself a Zoom Do you even have pencils?

Derek: Buy more tech.

Josh: You have pencils?

Derek: Yeah, I use— I do it all the time.

Josh: What do you use them for?

Derek: When I'm recording, I write down what's going on.

Josh: Mind maps are fucking great. I want to get right back into— because mind maps— I think the other thing about writing is it gets very tricky in regards to like people think that it has to be this beautiful prose, whereas like a mind map of being like Scrappy Studio 2 microphones. Okay, microphone stands, you know, visual. Yeah. You know, like all that.

Peter: Because no one else has to see it but you.

Josh: Yeah, right.

Derek: I'll make a 3D. I'll, I'll get some very expensive software and I'll make a 3D rendering.

Josh: We used to be able to CAD. Scooter used to be able to use numbers, animals, and design CAD stuff. Is that correct? Like computer generated?

Derek: Yeah, used to design furniture.

Peter: Um, full of hidden talents.

Derek: And I'd build it into 3D because you'd nail a client. Like back in the day, if you go, oh yeah, here's what I want to do, and draw it in a sketch, they go, yeah, cool. Then you go, watch this. Spinning around. In the '90s, it was like, where do I sign?

Peter: That's awesome.

Derek: Get an extra couple of G's.

Josh: It's a daily talk show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com is the email address. The long and the short of it is Pete's podcast. Scooter's got Castaway Studios and Studio 2 is coming very soon.

Derek: Yep.

Josh: With the Zoom room, you can use it as a Zoom room. Otherwise, see you tomorrow, guys.

Derek: Have a good one.