Josh Is Writing A Book

Josh: The Daily Talk Show. It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 599.

Tommy: Happy Wednesday, my freaks. What's going on? That's not my new one. That's not my new opening.

Josh: No, I don't mind it. I've, for some reason, I've got a notepad and pen.

Tommy: Yeah, what, are you taking minutes of this? Can you take minutes of this episode? Yeah, I could do show notes for Mr. 97. Definitely. He's—

Josh: I don't know what he does behind the desk, but he's a lot of typing.

Tommy: A lot of times.

Josh: Anyway, we've got George here today. Hi George.

George: Hello.

Tommy: Uh, how you been, mate?

George: Pretty good, yeah, just, um, no, no real news.

Tommy: That's about it. That's about what I expect from George. Thanks for coming on the show, mate.

Josh: Last time about, um, 97 had some dreams last night.

Tommy: Oh, I'm so glad I get left out of these conversations. I'm so glad that you two just Just talk about your dreams and exclude me.

Mason: Yeah, well, I mean, George, Josh, and I had great dreams chat.

Josh: I don't think George had a dream. No, you don't dream.

Mason: It was—

Josh: I didn't— Narcissists don't dream.

Tommy: George was dreaming of another fucking conversation he could be in, not that one.

Josh: Did you dream? Did you last night?

George: Did I dream? No, I don't think so.

Tommy: It is—

George: A few nights ago I had a pretty vivid dream.

Josh: What was it?

George: I'd broken out of jail. Oh yeah. And Billie Eilish was The security guard.

Josh: It sounds like a good music video. Yeah, I actually like that.

Tommy: Oh wow.

Josh: '97's involved Steph Claire Smith at a Coles. Yeah, so I can't—

Tommy: no, no, we're in the middle of DreamCon.

Josh: I don't know. Well, you can— it's quite a long one.

Mason: No, I'll just give you the top level. We're in Coles and Steph Claire Smith had Hey Tiger in her basket. And she switched it out for Cadbury. But I was there and I think Josh and Bri were there and it was just seeing her switch it out for the Cadbury.

Tommy: It was as boring as I thought.

Mason: Yeah.

Josh: Anyway, I went on a train with Seth Godin in my dream last night.

Tommy: That's a dream I can get on.

George: Yeah.

Josh: And it was like—

Tommy: Train rides with Seth.

Josh: And the thing was, I was trying to impress him. He was like, I want to catch a train everywhere in Melbourne. And so I just had to like, I just remember having to sort out like, how does the train system work in Melbourne before he got there. That's very stressful.

Tommy: I mean, most, most of these dreams are driven around anxieties. Mr. 97, what are you worried about?

Josh: Yeah, what could you possibly have to worry about?

Mason: What do you mean? No, it's because I was on, um, Steph Claire Smith's Instagram stories.

Tommy: And of course you were.

Mason: She was, um, she got a message from— she got sent stuff from Hey Tiger. And so, okay, that's right.

Tommy: All right, uh, now I just don't know what's reality and what's not because it's all potential, like Well, yeah, they're letting it through. Um, but you won't find Hey Tiger at a Coles.

Josh: No, no, that was one of the biggest issues with the drink. Yeah, and then she also walked up the wrong way of the escalator.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, you've got your notepad and pen out. Uh, I saw some guys at— they were obviously having a meeting with some bloke, and you know I love eavesdropping on conversation. And I mean, you could have just plonked you and I into this conversation because it was two guys that are banter that own a video production company and speaking with somebody about video production. He was like an agency guy, but one had a notepad and pen. Do you think it's a requirement? Like, and then today I went to a meeting this morning, didn't take anything. Like I had my bag, but I didn't get out notepad and pen. Do you think, what do you think it signals when you're getting out a notepad and pen and when Do you not have to get out your notepad and pen?

Josh: I think if it's a client meeting where potentially there will be actions, notepad and pen. The other day we're in a meeting and the person used my notepad and pen.

Tommy: Did they?

Josh: They had their own notepad and pen, but I think because mine didn't have any lines, they were drawing diagrams. They're like, here, let me use your notepad.

Tommy: That was great. It was our mate Rowan.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And he drew a picture.

Josh: He did a whole diagram.

Tommy: I tell you what, this cut through.

Josh: I was like, maybe I wanted to write something down. It's a real power move. But he had a notepad.

Tommy: Sorry, Matt, I'm just gonna—

Josh: Yeah, take your— Let me show you. I was like, what's wrong with your Moleskine? Am I not good enough for your Moleskine?

Tommy: Actually drew a photo.

Josh: Yeah, there you go.

Mason: Cloud.

Josh: Is that what you're doing? A tree.

Tommy: It's a nice tree. And yeah. So what do you think of that?

Josh: That was it. I mean, I think it is. I mean, this is— it's controversial that I've got no lines on this notepad.

Tommy: What's that matter though?

Josh: I think that from a client perspective, You have to wonder, is this guy serious?

Mason: Or a real creative? Yeah, that's a bit of illustration.

Josh: Because I find that sometimes, like, I'll be writing a list of things I need to do and I'm just putting it anywhere in the— on the page. Like, I'll write it down, right? And then I'll do stuff there and doing big arrows.

Tommy: I think it's a luxury having your lines, but then when you want to get a bit freaky with it, instead of just drawing on an angle or writing on an angle, Like you're kind of doing a brain dump.

Josh: Yeah. Mind maps. I was trying to look up a good app for mind maps.

George: Yeah.

Josh: Anyone using mind map apps here?

Tommy: What is a mind map app?

Josh: So, you just imagine like it just helps you build mind maps. So, you have a thought, how do you connect it to another thought?

Tommy: Can't you just do it on paper? Like, what is the app?

Josh: So, I mean, the app is just like just being able to do it anywhere.

Tommy: Far out. I think the, the, the hard bit is always trying to find something to assist the thing that we're doing, like an app. Like Paper, awesome.

Josh: But you've got it. I guess my, the thing is I want to make sure that I'm using it. I'm using Scrivener a lot, or Scrivener, Scrivener, Scrivener, Sebs. I think it's Scrivener. It's the, um, Scrivener, Scrivener, Scrivener. It's like a, um, an app for writers. And so I've, I've, I've got the nonfiction template. I'm starting to build out a memoir potentially coming 2025.

Mason: So, um, I see you have Notion, you have Drafts, and you've got Evernote.

Josh: I'm transitioning everything from Evernote to the other apps, but no, so I've sort of started with, um, what's Drafts versus Scrivener? So Drafts, I mean, Scrivener is specifically for like you start building out chapters and things like that.

Tommy: Oh, for actually writing.

Josh: Yeah, but Drafts is— why are you laughing? Why is this? I don't know.

Tommy: It's absurd, isn't it? Yeah, it's quite a thing.

Josh: But the thing is, all of a sudden we don't know where things are going to head in 5 years. It could go either way. So one of two things could happen. This could be very successful. Which?

Tommy: This. The podcast?

Josh: The podcast. No, the whole thing.

Tommy: What is that? What's the whole thing?

Josh: The show, the movement.

Tommy: Okay, great.

Josh: Yeah, the revolution. Or it could go really badly. Either way, there's probably an interesting story.

Tommy: But you've got to— Yeah, I mean, do you think people are writing them as they're going? I think that's a bit indulgent.

Josh: I think it's pretty— I think it's easier that way. Could you imagine if you created something successful and then had to go back and remember it all?

Tommy: Well, you just— I mean, it depends because you could easily just have a ghostwriter be interviewed, constantly talk about it, have it transcribed and have them sort of piece it all together. Depends if you want to be there.

Josh: Do you think that's like narcissistic, me doing this?

Tommy: I actually think it's a good exercise to do. It'd be like morning pages with a bit more of a focus on what happened yesterday.

Josh: Well, you're saying about saying that, but we also, um, Remember I had a pile of index cards and I was writing chapter ideas for a book.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So, every time, like, we were going to write a book about having a partnership.

Tommy: Which I still think is a good idea.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: If we can, you got to make it stick.

Josh: My Scrivener is sort of more sort of first person.

Tommy: Dumb name. It's the dumbest name.

Josh: Scrivener.

Tommy: Scrivener.

Mason: Yeah. Not a good name. Grace wants to know, is Josh still writing the book? Or if I missed the conversation about it.

Josh: No, I mean, well, so Seth is coming to Melbourne in May.

Tommy: I mean, just lead in with the answer if you want.

Josh: I don't have one. I don't know the answer.

Tommy: Do you know where it is?

Josh: Yeah, it's in the cupboard at home. I'm more focused at the moment. Yes, it is.

Mason: What about those loose sheets?

Josh: That's there too, I think. I believe you had some rebuttal. But I can't bring it up. Basically, she was saying, what was it about? Something about the book.

Tommy: You put it. Yeah. On yesterday's episode. If you can't, I can't remember it.

Josh: I can't remember it because the phone is live streaming right now.

Tommy: Okay.

George: So you can't get it.

Tommy: What I, from, I think there is from listening to this conversation, this café, it just outlined how everyone has a similar version of the same problem. You know what I mean? Like, it's— you can so think you're unique to your own situation. Yeah, the business, the partner, the life, you know, but it's so easily transferable.

Josh: Well, how different— like, if we're all sort of playing a very similar game, there's only a certain set of problems that you could have, which—

Tommy: yeah, I mean, yesterday it was the internal— your irritable state that you were battling.

Josh: I'm still coming off.

Tommy: He's coming down.

Josh: I'm still coming down.

Tommy: Do we need to be sensitive around?

Josh: No, no, no, I can talk about anything today, but I don't want to talk about my annoyances because I know it's not productive.

Tommy: Yeah, but, um, yeah, I was just, I was just like, it was a carbon copy of the conversations that we've had at some point listening.

Josh: So does it make you look at it and say, oh, we're annoying?

Tommy: No, it makes me look at it and go, we're not very unique.

Josh: Maybe Josh shouldn't write a memoir.

Tommy: Well, I think when you're in the middle of thinking that this is the biggest issue, we don't know how to solve this problem, you could take a bit of weight off it by just getting some perspective of like, you know, this is something a lot of people are faced with.

Josh: Well, I think that's why biographies are good.

Tommy: Why?

Josh: If you read a biography, you're like, oh, these people have the exact same issues, right? Like Especially, I reckon, comedians reading biographies or autobiographies by comedians. It's like they start off at the lot, like at the bottom. If you think about it, it's like they start off super poor, just trying to work, like just doing all the clubs, trying to make that work, and then they end up getting somewhere.

Tommy: Yeah, I guess the only The hard bit about looking at someone else's life, you can be inspired by elements of it, but it's hard because you don't want to sort of think about that's your path, or looking at their version of success.

Josh: You could learn from it, couldn't you?

Tommy: You can learn, yeah, definitely. But I think the hard bit is people disseminating between it being something that they want to achieve personally, like internally really want to, or it just like is written well. You watch a doco and it's inspiring and fucking like, I'd love some of their action.

Josh: Well, that's, I guess, the documentary. That's like the Taylor Swift and the Katy Perry and the Justin Bieber and the Demi Lovato.

Tommy: Well, that you sort of, you start being like, I want that.

Josh: Yeah, you said that. She goes, I want to be a singer.

Tommy: Yeah. And then you get trapped in that sort of—

Josh: then you watch another, then you watch James Bond, and it's like, I want to I want to be James Bond.

Tommy: It's all distracting from thinking about what you really truly want.

Josh: What was the weirdest pivot that you made in your career in something that you thought you would do?

Tommy: Oh, I think, I mean, I was a stripper.

Josh: You actually did that though?

Tommy: But I had a business around it and the business, like the whole premise of the business, not the premise, but just the having a business and creating some kind of service was something I'm interested in. And so it shifted from that, but it is a weird fucking one to be a part of.

Josh: But did you get a— did you know that there was going to be an exit, or were you like, oh, this could be like, I'm gonna have a— I'm gonna have a nightclub, we're gonna do 6 shows a day?

Tommy: Oh, there was all— there was thoughts about the vision and the future and what it could look like.

Josh: What is the vision of a stripper?

Tommy: Well, it's building an agency. It depends on if you're just the stripper. Yeah, you don't give a shit about the business, you just want to get your clothes off. And make some cash and sleep with lots of women, or, you know, other way around. Um, or you own the business and you want to grow it into a stage show that travels around.

Josh: And did you— because our mate Ash Williams did a bit of that, he had his own company.

Tommy: Yeah, but that pivoted into like activations and being at events away from— they probably told him to put his clothes back on.

Josh: Yeah, sure. Okay, so you haven't had any— so you haven't had any huge moments of You mentioned about the cop thing, but I guess that's of— that's recent years.

Tommy: Oh, I think I, I don't— I, I quite like a, um, a career trans— transition. Like, there's something empowering about it. Like, I think you— when you get dark and you start, you know, you're in a bit of a rut or something, you start really thinking about what it would look like when you can't get your fucking calendars to stop sharing with everyone. Yesterday you might have been in a dark space thinking it'd be easier, you know, being a bricklayer. Actually, that wouldn't— not for you. Be easier being an IT guy or a video person within someone else's business. Yeah, but that's, that's it.

Josh: Like, and so what is it for you? Where do you go? Like, have you been thinking— like, do you have any transformational thoughts?

Tommy: I think the difference for our business— we have a production company, video production company— is just a different role within that business. Yeah, like, so you can grow. It's like I've been making the videos from start to finish for years, and then you slowly build out a team where you're actually doing less of the whole service, but you're just doing a portion of it.

Josh: If you wanted to contribute to the— though, if you wanted to be a baker, I would completely be a baker.

Tommy: You know, okay, here it is. You're, you're asking me what I would choose. I was thinking about this. There is like, there is something about like building a business and getting busier And making more money, which requires probably more input a lot of the time to start with, at least to build it up, require— it's— there's busy work, there's a lot going on, there's a lot of shit going on in your head.

Josh: Slower—

Tommy: the PT lifestyle, being in that sort of exercise environment, it means you train all the time. It's a slower life and you feel so fucking great.

Josh: You'd get back into it.

Tommy: Not necessarily PT. Maybe, I don't know.

Josh: What about you, George? You're an editor by day. What have you thought about pivoting?

George: Nah, not really. But like you were saying with the doco thing, watching like Justin Bieber and stuff, I had a similar thing the other day. I watched, um, The Queen. The Queen. That's it.

Tommy: No, Rhapsody. Bohemian Rhapsody.

George: Yeah. And I was like, I'm gonna be in a band.

Tommy: That's it. Do you play an instrument?

George: I used to play the drums when I was a kid, but, um, yeah, I just—

Josh: the reason, the reason I was laughing is because I watched a doco on Hitler last night.

Tommy: You had a lot of dictator vibes today when you walked in.

Josh: No, it was actually— the annoying thing about the Hitler thing, so when you were saying that I watched a documentary, I straight away went to Hitler, but, um, I couldn't work out what was, what was real and what wasn't, like what was sort of dramatisation type stuff. But so you would, you wanted to, you wanted to join a band?

George: Pivot? Nah, I like this industry.

Josh: Okay.

George: So I can't think of what.

Tommy: Well, if you, if you couldn't do it, if you just were banned somehow, you got some—

George: Probably a sports, probably, probably a footballer. Really? Soccer player?

Josh: Are you athletic?

Tommy: Oh, you play some?

George: I used to be. I used to play pretty high-ish level for a kid, but, um, got it all happening. When I was about 15, that was the deciding point of like Okay, well, I don't make it next year. I'm just not— I'm not going to make it.

Josh: And so you were— so that was, that was soccer?

George: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. So his life ended at 15 and started again.

George: Yeah, pretty much.

Josh: And so that was when you pivoted? Yeah, to editing. Uh, what did you do as a kid? What were you doing when you—

George: I was always in media, like doing movies in Year 7. From Year 7 onwards, we were sitting in the lunchroom, uh, in the, in the media room at lunch, like editing and stuff.

Josh: Oh, that's good.

George: It's always been the plan.

Josh: Yeah, that's consistent.

Tommy: Well, the shift for me from personal training into radio, I had to get rid of one business to get into to work for another business.

Josh: That was huge.

Tommy: Did your ABN stay open like, yeah, oh dude, I was trading on that until about 2 years ago. Like, it was, I think it was Tom Jackett's, Tom Jackett franchise, franchise personal trainer. And the only reason I got That was because the first job I went for was at Fitness First, and I got the position of being a trainer, which is basically like, you can work, you're just gonna pay us fucking shitloads of rent to use the space.

Josh: Oh really?

Tommy: You can build your clientele off the back. Um, but I pulled the pin on that just before. It was within the cooling-off period of the contract. But, but for some reason they made you— they asked— I had no idea. What do you set up?

Josh: A certain—

Tommy: yeah, they said, can you set it up with Tom Jackett franchised personal trainer?. And so I did that and I had it active for many years. I think I was even running video projects through it at some point.

Josh: It's always like, why didn't you do the cool— like, why did you run away during the cooling off period?

Tommy: Who says I ran away?

Josh: Oh, you walked away. I don't know how you ran away.

Tommy: It was pretty dramatic.

Josh: Yeah, you're a PT.

Tommy: It was a moment I sprinted out. No, no, I did like the induction. I didn't feel good about it. I was young, I was 17, 18, no, 17. I felt funny about it, and I— it was probably just anxious. I don't know, you know, at that point you don't know if it's just because it's such a new thing that you're feeling funny or that you're actually not feeling— you're not vibing it.

Josh: What were you doing? What was at the time before you took on that Sweet FA? So you weren't— were you doing any PT?

Tommy: No, no. So you just had the course and I was moving into it, and so it was a huge leap It was probably getting thrown in the deep end, probably too far, and that's why it felt that way. But there was just something off about it anyway.

Josh: How many people in the induction?

Tommy: Oh, there was maybe 4 or 5. Like, there was a bunch of trainers already there, and so you then start integrating and you get to learn their systems. That's all it was. But I left that and I still didn't have my licence then. Mum picked me up and I said, Mum, can you drop me past Body World, which was a gym I'd trained at. I loved— I'd been going there since I was 15, you know, with friends. And it was a real bodybuilding gym. And I walked in there, I said, can I speak to the owner? Bruce, lovely guy, so sweet. And he came out, I said— I had my resume and I said, Bruce, um, here's my resume.

Josh: Is this straight out of the induction or was there a—

Tommy: No, it was— I'm pretty sure it was on the way back from the induction.

Josh: So you still had your resume? You had like, you had a copy? Always.

Tommy: Okay, you just always had it ready. And so when you, you obviously print 3 out or 5 out and you're doing the rounds, and so I think I had leftovers.

Josh: Yeah, sure.

Tommy: Anyway, um, I went in and I spoke to him and we had a good chat and he said, yeah, great, like you can work behind the counter, you can, you know, be a gym instructor, which isn't a personal trainer, but it's a gym instructor where you're helping run people through programmes when they first sign up to the gym, and you're working behind the counter selling protein shakes and checking people in, memberships. And, and so that's where I then canned the Fitness First thing, and it was the best move.

Josh: Were they annoyed?

Tommy: I don't know.

Josh: I think I just said stop coming.

Tommy: I would have had to formally sign something and state that it was within cooling-off period. Like, I think I had my dad read over the contract, but it was huge. Like, that's the only reason I trained John Safran.

Josh: That's—

Tommy: I've got a bunch of mates that I had from that gym. I started getting my first clients given to me there. Like, I— it's the perfect way because you've got no idea, and so you start training with all these people and start learning. And so it was do your 8-week course but actually learn on the ground on the tools and then start training people. And so that's the only— it's so funny, these small decisions that you make that, that shift the trajectory of your future, and that was one of them, of just going in and asking. Imagine if I didn't go in and ask, if I was just feeling like— I felt nervous. Yeah, like, if I didn't—

Josh: I mean, I wonder what it was about the, um, the other version where you were being a PT. Do you think you were getting too much responsibility too quickly?

Tommy: It was like $300 a week rent. I wasn't paying fucking rent to live. And so it was, you know, so the, the fitness-first model is even more expensive now. You can only train people that are members, you have to pay them regardless. It's like $400 a week rent.

Josh: A lot.

Tommy: But you can make a shitload of money. There's trainers making $3,000 a week and they're paying, or, you know, it's a small fee at that point, but it's very much probably suited to people who have established and know how to generate leads or walk up and talk to people, like, you know. And so anyway, It's, um, that was a shift.

Josh: How long were you at Body World?

Tommy: I worked there from 17 till 23, 24, like on and off.

George: Really?

Tommy: Yeah, my whole PT career. I then had my studio, but I still went back and trained a few people there because people didn't want to come over to Albert Park. It was just convenient. John Saffron didn't come to my studio. I'd just come back and train a few. And I trained there myself and I had all my mates there. And so yeah, that was that, that was that.

Josh: I mean, uh, Sev's transition, what would you do, uh, after the 10 years?

Mason: Yeah, I would say something, something similar to PT, like sports science, wellness, health, cooking. I wouldn't be a complete chef, but it'd be all that integrated stuff.

Tommy: There is the— so the attaching some kind of big huge business to something is where the busyness starts. There is a great life to be had working as a PT that's clearing $2,000 a week and happy and just like doing the sessions, helping people. Like, I was always so busy in my head thinking about what the bigger picture is for myself, and that's— that can be the trap because do you even want the busier?

Josh: Well, that's the whole bigger picture. I reckon that's been the friction in my career or life. It's, it's like you want to— I love idleness in some ways. Like, I love weekends doing nothing. I love like the idea of living on the nut in Tasmania, in Stanley, and just going for walks. Like, that sounds great.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Or even just like I was, um, I was saying this to Jason Fox yesterday, it's like there's something about the idea of like being at the bottom of a mountain in a cottage and just doing stuff, just, but not too much stuff.

Tommy: Well, you're going to be okay with— I think it's, you know, the, the, the interesting one is it's the thought now when you're in the more chance of building the bigger business.

Josh: And well, that's the thing, I think that that's like part of it is it's like it's hard to do. I think it's hard to do both. You have to pick one or you have to have like a moment. You have to have the crazy busyness to get to the idleness, I think. Yeah. So for us, it's like going the other way of like, no, like more responsibilities, more people, more things, bigger space, which is obviously a scarier thing because you have more to lose, but it also has way more rewards.

Tommy: Yeah, I think I've, um, reconciled the thought of not having that slow life and having a busier, bigger thing with the things like meditation, like, that help you throughout that exercise, you know, eating right. Like, it's these— all these things help you be more optimal.

George: Yeah.

Tommy: In your mental state and, you know, physical state.

Josh: I think also it's like, if you work hard, the idleness feels better. Idleness gets boring if that's all you're doing.

Tommy: You don't want to be in idleness thinking about how you should have fucking given it a crack and How you don't know, because if you don't try, you failed.

Josh: But then you also need to, I guess, be okay with the fact that, uh, like a destination— there is a destination. Like, so for instance, I think that part of my thinking that I want to shift is that you somehow arrive, and then once you've arrived, you can then do the idle— like, you can sort of chill a little bit more. But there is never an arrival. Of anything. It's a bit annoying.

Tommy: And yeah, and there's so many mixed messages in approaches, self-help books. Like, we're looking at revenue targets and then are saying that's one book that sort of has you sort of prompting to set goals like that. Another one that's written by some successful people that say that was the worst decision for our business. That's like, fuck, which one is it? And so then you're confused and going You know, do I— is it, you know, do I need to do more or do less or stop focusing on a few things that I was doing and then just do that? Like, I think it's the opposite.

Josh: It's being able to like go into the different versions or the different truths. Like, if you— the idea of saying, oh, you know, don't worry about— like, worry about building something that gives value And just on that, without considering revenue, I'm just drawing on my notepad right now. Uh, you're basically like, I think that that is, that is the blind spot. I think that people that spend too much time saying it's either one or the other, which one am I going to pick? Whereas I think that it's about oscillating between the two. But within that oscillate, like, um, oscillation, I think what can sometimes happen is you end up giving up on one strategy before going on to the, to the next one. So it's like you don't have enough years or months or whatever it is in the cadence of revenue before you're like, oh no, we just need to be adding more value, giving more, doing all of that sort of thing.

Tommy: Yeah, it's noisy because you hear people say value first, or like telling you where to put your focus. But if your personal situation is you haven't even been able to build a business model that's sustainable, it's— the information might not be specific for you. And so it's all individual. And that's even like thinking about— but if you're in the busy state and idleness is the goal, and you've realised only from getting to the busyness that it's like, I fucking hate every minute of this, I need different, I need to change. And then that's the challenge, to get out of the busyness to even shift it to the thing you think you want, even though it might— in your head you've decided that it's the better option.

Josh: Or even think, when I went away for like 4 months, like I was itching to get back to work by the, by the end of it. And so I think there's something nice if you could build in like a, okay, I'm gonna do 2, uh, every 2 years I'm gonna do 3 months away.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And being able to build that, I think there's something cool in that.

Tommy: That'd be great. I mean, this becomes lifestyle design, which was a sort of buzzword for a while, but it's just in— it's short for what, what life do you actually want and how, how does that look and how can you— everything you do is kind of specific to creating that.

Josh: Well, look at 4-Hour Workweek and what that was like. I think that that created a fair bit of confusion for people because people thought they could Dropship?

Tommy: No, but just thinking that work remotely, have some product that's selling, making money while you're sleeping. Like, it's all buzzwordy, sounds good, is good. But if you're not into that shit, it's hard to deal with. It's hard to have a business like that. Yeah, but I mean, I think he wrote— I think the word— it's just a catchy title, which it's really stuck for him.

Josh: But I guess it resonates with a certain group of people.

Tommy: Did with me 10 years ago when I was reading it.

Josh: But it's also very confusing, I reckon, for, uh, if you're 18 at the start of your career, if you're trying to work out at 18, how do I not— I guess we— there needs to be a distinction between work, employment, like work slash employment, and adding value to the world. And so if you're not— if you're only working 4 hours a week, you got to do something else for the rest. And so I think that maybe what was missing in that book was identifying what you're actually going to do. Yeah, you're not going to like— do you want to just lie on a beach?

Tommy: Yeah, it's so like visually makes so much sense.

Josh: Also, imagine using it on the beach, just like, for our work, we're going. But also like Seth is like, from what we've seen and what we've heard, he's like a super hard-working dude. He's always shipping, always doing stuff. I'd prefer to do that with just a little bit of holiday stuff.

Tommy: Um, just some feedback for you, mate, on that notepad. You drew absolutely nothing. I did.

Josh: You drew—

Tommy: you pulled my eyes down to it like you were looking down to it. An arrow, two squares, two squares. No sense. It's nonsensical.

Josh: But it's more of a, um, It's a power move because you looked.

Tommy: Yeah, I know, but I was looking at absolutely nothing. I'm annoyed.

Josh: George, to be honest. Do we have any more details about your mum's bookshop? What the actual—

George: I don't know.

Josh: No, you can say no. What's the bookshop called again?

George: The bookshop's called The Bookroom.

Josh: The Bookroom.

George: It was her idea, actually. She's like, oh yeah, when we get the— when we start doing the book club stuff, we'll have a code that you put in.

Mason: Would make it gronk.

Josh: Oh, that's good.

George: I like that. Well done, Mum. You've only listened to like one episode.

Tommy: Your mum's written a review.

Josh: Yeah. She wrote a review on Apple Podcasts. Did you know that?

George: Yeah, I know. It was a pretty niche reference, to be honest.

Josh: It all is. That's what we love. So if you're in Byron Bay, go to the Book Room, go see Kaz. Is it Kaz?

George: She mainly works in Lennox, so you might not see her in Byron, but—

Josh: Oh, really?

George: You might.

Josh: It's fine.

George: She might be in there.

Josh: But just say—

George: My stepdad John will be in there. Okay.

Josh: If you see John, just say, oh, I listen to the Daily Talk Show. Yeah. And then like buy a book and then they'll be like, wow, those guys really have some pull. That's all we want.

George: That's what we want.

Josh: And then maybe they'll, if I can't get a publisher for this memoir, maybe I could self-direct.

George: Well, you can do your book launch there.

Josh: I'd love that.

Tommy: That'd be awesome.

Josh: Ask the author.

George: Yeah.

Tommy: What an awesome place to go and do a book launch.

George: Yeah.

Tommy: Look at him. You've just given him tingles and the guy hasn't written the book. Yeah. Like you should have seen the You haven't written any book.

Josh: I've written— I'll just give you like, uh, 10 seconds on 2 concepts that I've got. One of them is thought leadership, right? Let's think about thought leadership. 8, 7, no, don't count. Don't you think thought leadership is silly?

George: 4.

Josh: Yes, because the thing is— no, I can't talk. I can't talk if something else is happening. One.

Tommy: That's all you had, mate. 10 seconds. Here's the thought.

Mason: Is that per book or what? Anyway, so thought leadership is silly.

Josh: Yeah. And then so like I had— I, I'm building out all of these like thought starters and then I'm gonna like explore them. And so the, the thought around thought leadership being silly is it's leadership is about action. Leadership is actually like being in the race and doing something. It's a bit of an oxymoron to say thought leadership because you're not actually being a leader until you've done it. So that's, that was one sort of riff that I've just, I've put as a, as a potential chapter.

Tommy: You should just write a blog a week and then you've got a book by the end of the year.

Josh: Basically, the other one was Free to Dream. I think that I don't want it to be too—

Tommy: These are just blog posts, dude.

Josh: Now they're chapters. They're the start of chapters. Free to Dream. It's like, I think that for most people, there's all that we've got these limiting beliefs around what we can do. And so it's about how do you, how do you create freedom to actually dream of what you want to do? Obviously it's only going to be relevant when we're extremely successful.

Tommy: Nah, set it up, son. Just quickly before we go, one little piece of information about the Adventure Club on the 29th of Feb. We have a sponsor.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Who? I can't tell you.

George: What?

Josh: That's just the first bit. But this is the first day.

Tommy: I've got to go over finer details with the the sponsor.

Mason: Do we know the sponsor? Yeah.

George: Okay, great.

Tommy: So we'll get there. There's no guessing game at the moment. More information will come. I gotta get on this phone call because I'm 5 minutes late. Sorry, Mick.

Josh: Nando's? Is it Nando's?

Tommy: We'll get there. All right.

Josh: Okay. Right, it's a daily talk show.

Tommy: We'll, uh, see you tomorrow for 600.

Josh: Geez. Yeah, tomorrow. What should we do, by the way?

Tommy: We'll work that out. I gotta go.

Josh: Do you know the—

Tommy: love you guys.

Josh: While he goes, can I just say to you guys was so annoying. I said to myself, I'm gonna write this memoir. I'm not gonna tell anyone. I'm gonna finish it and then surprise you all. I'm fucking half a chapter in. I've already blown the load.

Tommy: I'm so glad I stuck around for that. We'll see you tomorrow for episode 600. If you haven't followed the Facebook group, just search it in facebook.com/groups/thedailytalkshow.

Josh: Join.

Tommy: And also tell a mate Yeah, the answer to the question is Queen Gronkh is Gemma Watts. And then just tell us how long you've been listening for.

Josh: No, it's a good—

Tommy: make up a date, make it easy, guys. Yeah, yeah, I'm happy with that. We'll see you tomorrow, guys.

Josh: See ya, have a good one.

Tommy: Bye.

Josh: Please subscribe if you haven't on YouTube and Apple Podcasts and also CastBox and Pocket Casts. Anything else?

Tommy: No, man, I finished. I wrapped it up. You can't handle me wrapping it up. You have to then do it.

Josh: But also So we're trying to build our, um, YouTube stuff.

Tommy: Dude, I actually have to go.

Josh: All right, see ya.

Tommy: See you guys.