0:03
It's the daily Talk Show Episode 563. And it's New Year's Eve when you're listening to this.

0:10
Yeah. Happy New Year's Eve.

0:12
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't have the same buzz to news as like it did when I was 15 1617 1819 2020 went to actually all just all the time that I was drinking. Well,

0:23
tonight, news Eve evening, I'm going to be on the moderators.

0:28
Right? You go hard place.

0:32
Your baby's gonna drink. Yeah, good boy. All right. Well, let's bring on our guest for this new show. It's

0:38
very magical. Dr. Jason, wizard Fox.

Was that can you break? Oh, good.

0:57
Yes, I was just in another realm. But I heard the call. So here I am. How are you?

1:03
Yeah, good. Good. Yeah. Can you are you can put your hat back on if you if you're not if you're listening to this, Jason has just appeared he's got a wizard hat on, and it looks perfect on top of your head.

1:16
Okay, good, good. What's your relationship with wizardry? When did this all start?

1:21
Oh, well, that's a good question because people aren't born wizards necessarily. That would be a sorcerer. Right? Is that Jay knows Yeah.

1:28
So what is what is TJ not

1:32
knowing look about him, but I'm confused.

1:37
Is someone who dedicates their life to studying the mysteries of the cosmos and try to unearth the kind of the underlying fractals of the magic that lies between them between all of the complexities of life and so that's, you know, that's why I'm technically I'm an arch wizard. Was this one who's mastered all the schools of magic

1:57
except

1:59
me You've got the

2:00
headphones. So it's hard. But yeah, yeah. I suppose I got into a deep conversation where I was just listening to somebody who'd researched it quite a bit. He listened to a bunch of podcasts. And he knew a lot about wizardry on witchcraft. Which I was like is this, this is a thing like people are actually practising witchcraft, wizardry, witchcraft, any correlation? And does it ever exist when wizards like a thing? Many, many, six in the before before the thousands?

2:32
Okay, cool. This is a great question. Because if you if we go really back, the tribes would have different shamans and shamans would have rituals that would connect folks to different types of meaning. And if we look at the power of placebo effect, it's 30 to 50% sometimes it's quite powerful that the the how beliefs can be channelled to good effect and so how people can be healed and then make the association Oh, how's the shamans magic and so From that notion, you can then have a lot of different stems like there's Yeah, there's witches, there's Druids, there's wizards, there's, you know, priests and shamans and all these other types of magic users. From my perspective and perspective of wizard, it's kind of magic is, there's different ways to think of magic, right? So what we're doing right here can be a type of magic, it exists that an order of complexity that I can't even begin to describe without, you know, taking heaps of time, the fact that folks are watching us listening to us, right now across the other side of the planet, it's like magic. So magic becomes a placeholder for something that is of an order of complexity to to beyond our ability to succinctly explain. And then there's a kind of magical thinking where people believe that their thoughts and feelings and emotions can directly influence the wider universe. And that's where things get a little bit more fuzzy. And I think that, you know, a pinch of scepticism and rationalism useful in that regard, but not not to the point where it blinds you, but just as a thread to hold on to so you don't get lost in that world. You work with a bunch of corporates. You rocking up to like booper to do a presentation with a wizard hat.

4:15
This is great. So, Have you guys heard of idiosyncratic at credit? No.

4:23
So, there's a, there's a study that says that the more you play by convention, the more you can get away with idiosyncrasies and so therefore, the fact that you know, got a PhD written a few books have lots of clients and stuff like that allows me to kind of rock out and be in a different mode a little bit and kind of get away with it. Whereas if I had

4:47
if you ask

4:50
it to me

4:54
So yeah, you don't want to push it too far. But um, but in terms of archetypes to show up in An event and an event is like an orchestrated ritual and experience and showing up as some sort of gentleman Explorer, pirate wizard or whatever, does evoke different feeling tones and different ways that people will relate to. what's what's emerging. I'm finding my hat has just precariously balanced right now.

5:19
There's a lot of course at Why don't you put it over your headphones overall. So we're just doing acquisitive? Because it almost adds is a bit of a holder. Oh, yeah. And so then if you just put the headphones over the top, I reckon I like you, Andrea. Oh, yeah. Yeah, DJ wizard.

Dungeons and Dragons. I never played Dungeons and Dragons ever in my life. I feel like potentially I could be a candidate for this. Oh my gosh, yes.

5:53
Yes.

5:57
So Dungeons and Dragons. This is this is this is like This is impro right? Is Dungeons and Dragons, you have someone who's the dungeon master who sits behind a screen and rolls dice to determine the outcome of things. And then you have different players in a group kind of just playing with what emerges with reality and that the beautiful thing about Dungeons and Dragons is it's an infinite game. It's not played for the purpose of winning, it's paid for the purpose of continuing the play. And there's a kind of a mirrored reality to life itself. Because in life, you don't have a win that life you might win in some of the minor games of life. But you know, you didn't play left to win or to kind of beat everyone that you play it to kind of continue the pain. And so Dungeons and Dragons is a really, really fun reflection of the richer complexity of real world life. That if you have a good mix of folks that you know, that you can have some fun with in random situations. You know, you guys should get a dungeon master on Sunday.

6:50
Well, we had um, yeah, you're my Michael bungay stanier is going to be with his family and he tried to the year a year ago and he's like, it could have gone either way, but I introduced the kids to Dungeons and Dragons. And so he was saying he was going to go play a heap of it up there because they love it. I still didn't at that point understand what he was talking about. The sort of the board game was

7:12
also the infinite game like when do you go home? If it's the infinite guys,

7:16
they're they're kind of narrative arcs that you can come to a certain conclusion. So it's imagine it's mostly adults that play this and there's a bit of a resurgence now because of Stranger Things and other popular shows that are making d&d cool again, just like nerds are cool again. And somehow Well, I see myself. But yeah, you just sit around you talk and you have one person that's creating these challenging scenarios that are threaded into a narrative. And people are playing with the meaning making of like, what would happen if this and that and you know, living in

7:49
that story, tell him add improv storytelling?

7:54
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Imagine imagine you guys imagine those someone here providing the provocations in scenarios and stuff like that. And enough of the subtext and the tension with certain characters that are appearing as non player characters, and seeing how the dynamics of different players interact. And then there's also impossibly secret motives of different players that they live out and act out in terms of how their characters work. How

8:17
much more fun is that when you drink red wine and do it?

8:21
Yeah, does it? Yeah, there's like a balance though. Right? Because you don't want to get too You don't want to get too reflective at this. Yeah, this business is this notion that's just emerging at the moment. Have you guys heard of lopping? not

8:33
laugh? laugh? Laugh laughing, laughing. hopping on wall off.

8:40
laughing It's live action roleplay

8:45
laughing all the time.

8:47
So the notion of laughing reality has become a thing where people are talking about podcasting. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, you guys are in class gym. You're showing up. You're doing

8:58
so much, Jason.

8:59
laughing so how do we integrate like, and so the dungeons into the dungeons and dragons thing? Could we do it as a podcast? Would it be interesting like to do once a month at Dungeons and Dragons episode?

9:14
thing would that work?

9:16
If you have a really good Dungeon Master

9:21
become a dungeon master like it seems like there's some power. I

9:27
don't know. I have a friend who has done a lot of improv. He's done stuff in the different comedy festivals, written screen shows and stuff like that has an understanding of narrative arcs and tensions and stuff like that. So that there's a whole bunch of

9:41
actors that haven't yet

9:44
found a niche

9:47
to flex in between

9:49
the book, so is it improv? Is there a book or improv is

9:54
there is room for improv improv? Yeah.

9:57
So Johnston and you It's all about like status and stuff like that was

10:02
a component. Yeah. Yeah. So, in any interaction there are people kind of vying for highest status or low status. And this can be a fun dynamic like when you have situations, you know, that kind of like the improv game where someone said something bad about, you know, the barista stepped up my coffee order this morning and the next person that says, Yeah, you can afford coffee, you know, I had to have, you know, recycle tea bag and stuff. It's like recycling, I don't live in a society that has recycling. You know, you can just kind of gets progressively worse as people are trying to lowest status each other. It's kind of makes for fun improv and but it also shines an interesting black mirror on the actual games that happen in everyday life where we inadvertently create verticality between how we relate to each other. We put people up on pedestals or we kind of see people below us and The the notion here is we need to remember, ideally, we try to cultivate only horizontal relationships with everyone that we work with. People are neither better than you nor worse than you, and either higher or lower. And then and then if there are any kind of tensions that we play with it is done in the spirit of play. And so just like mates can kind of play and or a lot of mammals kind of play by it and stuff. That's how we relate to each other in society. But the trouble is, when people start to internalise this, they literally think that they're better than other folks that they literally think they're not as good as other folks. And that's where all sorts of all creativity and they're just the horizontal relationship thing. Does that. Could that also

11:42
create classism in regard if it's not done correctly? So if you only do horizontal relationships, not by bringing people up, but only by connecting with those that it equal to is that

11:56
that's kind of like

11:57
yes, I underlying then that's like the notion of equal as an if you expand that to encompass all beings, then you're probably fine. But like if you like, meaning I really connect with people that are of this particular thing, then you kind of a little bit screwed because you're going to be cultivating a bit of a filter bubble. And then even then you might notice there's tensions within that group where you're like on that person's an idiot and data, all natural and fine, but it just how we relate and connect with each other just if we can. improv allows us to play with variations and status and stuff but reality that game is still going on. And if we can kind of if we can not get swept up and identify so much with that and approach it with the spirit of infinite play, we may be able to navigate with more fluidity and grace.

12:44
Do you see life like a game? This is

12:48
this good. I see. Like, there's a phenomenal book that shaped my life immensely as a book code. Find it name from the games division of life is playing possibility. There are at least two types of games One could be considered finite finite game is a game that's played for the purpose of winning an infinite game is played for the purpose of continuing the plane. So finite players play within boundaries infinite players play with boundaries, I'm quoting the book here are any that which can change can continue is one of the first principles of infinite play. And so I don't like the word game because it has so much baggage to it. Like my first book was called the game changer. And some people were like, Oh, so you're into gaming? And when I said gaming that like casino gambling? Not right, not really. And then they went to like sports games and competitive things where you play to win. And it's a deeper philosophy than that. So yes, I guess I consider life to be an infinite game. And there's there's a lot more richness and complexity to that notion. And then some people there's there is a board game called the game of life, where the idea of the board game is you go through you accumulate resources, you buy houses, you invest in shares and whatever and whoever dies with the most money wins.

14:08
Do barefoot

14:11
does it have buckets little bucket? To do a board game? Yeah. Yeah. Put in the splurge.

14:20
You know, you've got all the different probably legitimately. Yeah.

14:26
Yeah,

14:27
yeah. Next next Christmas.

14:31
So that this is the stuff and this is kind of all of this stuff. For me. One of the biggest things that has emerged for me is this notion of fluidity of character of not getting too caught up in who we think we are to the point that it prevents us from becoming who we need to be with, with whatever context is emerging. And I've become recently fascinated by notions of existential crises and I because I think that I've kind of been mildly not necessary. Mowgli, but I've been enjoying one for the last couple of years. And the crisis. Yeah, like an existential crisis kind of as this is the situation is usually triggered by a death, divorce, disaster displacement or other kinds of calamities. Did you buy a sports car? That's typically what would happen right? So people would go through back in the day and people would have a career path. Remember that language career path where there's like one single path and work really hard and that earned the promotions and that eventually in the mid 40s, or whatever that have achieved everything and that'd be kind of thinking is that it and then be like, hang on shit. Well, who am I outside of the context of work here and what does any of this What does this all mean? And that's kind of the the kind of the scaffolding of their worldview starts to fall apart. I like shit what I used to be cool man I used to like do and then that goes by motorbike can kind of do these things and I tried to kind of form a new version of identity posts that achievement and for Some folks that would be regressing back to an earlier form.

16:03
And

16:04
minimalism is right, in a lot of ways. If you think about like, if you hear the people who find minimalism it's normally they've gone the other way. First, they've had heaps of shit. Yeah. And then sort of brought it back down. Well, that's,

16:16
that's the other thing too is this kind of post material phase of life where you realise that meaning is not by the accumulation of material stuff. And I find that, you know, hipsters and hippies are very good at realising this. It's kind of like there's, there's, there's a kind of meaning meaningless, that can be cultivated through simple things through, you know, patching up your clothes through old records and stuff. And the thing is, like nowadays, we don't have a career path. It's not a linear path. And these midlife crises are happening much more early and much more often for more folks than ever before. And the thing that's different nowadays, we have streaming and playing, you know, gaming and all sorts of distractions so that people actually don't spend time in addressing these deeper niggling questions around, hang on, am I actually happy here? Who am I? What is actually meaningful? What am I doing with my life? And and so for years potentially these questions that go unanswered whilst we kind of, you know subsumed algorithmically fed content that inevitably informs and shapes who we are. So become fascinated by those that are feeling the angst and thinking, Okay, hacklin be more productive. How can we more be more generative with this kind of dark patch? And, yeah, and so one of the practices that I end up doing is every year particularly around this year, and lucky my abbreviation, my stage name abbreviation is dgf. Dr. Jason Fox, December, January, February is my time to kind of do this reflective been and that sets me up for July August, September, October, November, which is Jason so so the calendar is rigged for my favour. But yeah, that I've had this process of going deep into choosing one word To cast forth 12 months into the future, so

18:03
we just need to give that Jason Thea bit more. July August, September, October November. Jason. That is

18:12
when you said at first I thought that you skipped the work it was like okay, July September.

18:22
That should be a holiday. I should just type that

18:27
in primary school when I'm sorry. How does

18:30
that come about? How do you work that out?

18:39
My which is I thought was good with it. I'm born in 1988. Yeah, I was born. I was born on the first of the ninth. Id. Which one nine is if you were to just do one, nine, and then I died for the idea. 1988 first, no, that's good. I quite like that. But fuck yeah, I'm gonna speak is that again because I just heard yours. I love it. I

19:05
love it when those those moments that are that emerge, like we've had that a few times where this is the last time it would be the 11th of the 11th 2011, you know, and but now we're going to go into a new millennium and that'll screw with all of those.

19:18
What does it all mean though deed? Do you find a way placing meaning in it? What does it actually mean?

19:26
What does it all mean? And

19:29
I think that the world generally speaking has has possibly some how do we say this?

19:39
And meaning it's best to relate to meaning in terms of meaning this and one of the most profound sources of insight for me personally has been a site called meaningless.com, which was started by someone who was originally doing a lot of research in artificial intelligence back in the early days and naive days without trying to create a kind of consciousness realised that this path isn't going to work and then took him deeper into I think he's a monk now but also a researcher and writer into exploring the nature of consciousness and how we make meaning. So meaningless calm is a blog it's a it's a kind of like a hyper book like a like a book but with what's a hyperlink that's kind of living and

20:23
kill doesn't look like old school was it like like 90 like HTML

20:26
sort of, sort of almost almost and it's got a nice cream background and a lovely, you know, Sarah font. And, and so the idea is like meaningless refers to boast both meaning and meaning listeners, so meaningfulness and meaninglessness, and meaningless the way that we talk about meaning it's neither objective nor objective. It's kind of this nebulous, yet patent into subjective thing. So some people go through a dark patch of life where they're like, nothing seems meaningful and they have these superficial forms of nihilism. Which means that I believe that nothing is meaningful and I can't find any meaning in life and, and that's very relatable because of all the bullshit in society at the moment. And also

21:09
those people just not grateful. Because I mean, if you were to stop and think what Yeah, cuz I mean, can you be nihilistic Is that the right word and grateful at the same time?

21:21
This is this is that's that's an interesting question like the notions of juxtaposition are really really important. This is what would call both ending. So you can't kind of taking a hybridised or you oscillate between the different poles or you juxtapose those two views, and that's quite mature and healthy. But this notion of gratitudes is one of the ways of really bringing meaning back into life. And it's it's one of the things that yet people get people lose sight of. So they become nihilistic because people are fixating on hustling on a global stage where we're kind of so distracted all the time. we're pursuing Hello achievement metrics, but when Bring it back to simple things that were grateful for little things like the coffee you brought me this morning. This has changed my this has changed the I don't know the outlook of the whole year ahead right?

22:12
It was it was phenomenal. I was I was angsting What about climate?

22:17
Like the issue with this right like you can be grateful for the smaller things. But then there's all I feel like the nihilism comes from the world's fact where fact I don't know how to get out of it. I don't know what to do. I keep buying the reusable the disposable medicine. Oh, yeah, no, I'm not doing that. That's a thing. But there's always there's only this stuff. Yeah. And it's like yeah, I just remembered my doesn't matter now. But my fridge meal is in my fridge. That's fun. Anyway, so big small,

22:52
I say the people who are in that nihilistic state thinking nothing matters haven't

23:00
I think there's probably a moment taking from mindfulness or meditation practice where you actually sit back from that, because that's in a state of judgement. If you're not thinking anything has meaning, it's actually a thought, or you wrap some thinking around what it all means. And if you pull back from that, there's another position, which is just it is and just to be fair, and I want to kind of go to the, you know, the deep existential angst that's afflicting many of us these days with regards to the multi dimensional crisis of ecological devastation and systemic inequality and the meaning crisis. But there's the other side of this you got nihilism. You've also got to what David Chapman describes as a journalist's where they see meaning in every single thing. And and this this is my may partly explain kind of the resurgence of astrology and other forms where everything is significant, meaningful. And so back to your juxtaposition thing. You've got nihilism, everything's meaningless, and it's kind of a judgmental thing. And you've got a journalism where everything is meaningful that has a fixed eternal meaning. And neither of those stances are necessarily true or apt. But there is something that exists in nebulosity, betwixt in between those spaces, where something like mindfulness, where you kind of you get a chance to observe and reflect on that that helps us to see a path. But it's understandable that people are feeling a bit of despair now, you know, in Australia with the bush fires and everything going on and the the kind of the existential angst of that. I can't help myself and you guys mentioned Islam, Michael bungay. stanier is the chat that you had with him earlier. Meta modernism has been something that I found really helpful in that it is a synthesis of deep scepticism and cynicism about our outlook for the future, coupled with like an optimism and a naive hopefulness. It's like a romantic response to crisis. It's kind of like, yeah, we're all fucked, but That's not necessarily a helpful stance to say let's let's actually act as though there is hope. And there's possibility that we can work our way out of this because hey, we might be wrong and there might actually be hope through this. And so that kind of juxtaposition of like showing up in a form that is positive and hopeful and optimistic, whilst also suspecting that maybe we're in over a heads here and that one, the pathway to mass extinction, and that if you can navigate that tension, you might be able to just save yourself from tipping over back into nihilism and the Abyss or thinking about death the other day, and specifically what if we view death as like, so like, I feel like something that faith or religion has on people who aren't is that they've got like a story for post little life or whatever or like when you die and I thought what about if I just went into like, life thinking that the experience of death is actually the most amazing thing ever? Like actually like whenever it happens, it is awesome. And then have Think about it, worry about it, but it allows you to be present. Is that? Is that a thing? I'm a bit it's a nice, it's actually very good. I mean, one of the things that has people accumulation hoard material possessions and act and more selfish and defensive wise is kind of deep seated fear of death, that kind of an inability to reconcile with our own mortality. And I think contemplating our own demise, sad death, the reminder that we're here fleetingly. Which then reminds us to be grateful and to kind of invest in the relationships and things around us. It it helps us to mature into a better, a more benevolent and abundant disposition that kind of allows us to, you know, this notion of a story, we can't help but make meaning of things we just, we look back, all of us right now have a story about who we are and where we are in life. And, and, and that's the kind of narrative fallacy we look back at moments in our life and we can't help They may not be connected, but we can't help but draw meaning and make a coherent thread of a story of who we are.

27:05
Is that safe?

27:07
for ourselves internally, it feels better to do that. I don't think that we I think I don't think we can do any other way. I mean,

27:14
because it doesn't always serve us the stories. The stories aren't always like the

27:17
console. Yeah. If we assess and fixate and polish and praying and stories, they can become tyrannical narratives. And this is worrying when people say, I've always had a dream, you know, when I was ever since I was four years old, I wanted to data and they kind of build this into their identity and then it becomes like a calcified, ossified, rigid, fixed, like suit of armour that they can't escape from, and they become prisoners and the story of their own making

27:45
is that extremism like if you look at like what puts people and to fighting wars will get like going overseas and doing that sort of stuff. Where do you think that actually comes from? And is there the concert like is media over communicating that worry, or with this sort of crisis mode that we're in, are we actually going to have more extremism across the board?

28:08
That's a really good question. And the answer is yes. I mean, all extremism is I would say is based upon a set of beliefs which are informed by narratives, which were informed by norms within society. And, you know, we think about, there's some internet forums that will radicalise folks. So folks that are kind of feeling dejected by mainstream society or don't actually have a natural community they can hang out with, they find this space and it kind of becomes a way of, you know, they get the feedback loops, they feel a sense of meaning and connection and stuff like that and become radicalised And particularly, I think that, therefore, it's very useful for us to have a healthy distance from our own beliefs, or at least an ironic disposition. So one of the other tenants of meta modernism is as ironic sincerity or sincere irony. Sincerity is where you work with a single point of truth where, you know, I've always known here's, let me tell What I know to be true irony is what you acknowledge actually, there's multiple perspectives here. There's multiple versions of truth. And the trouble is when people are in pure sincerity, it can seem like they're a bit of a simpleton like it seems it seems like they're a little bit too narrow to too much conviction and haven't really considered things beyond their own personal point of view. The troubled irony if you're in pure irony is that you Oh, look at you. You're so clever, you know, but no one really knows. What do you really think? What do you really feel? What do you really believe? Because you're older so look at me, I'm not the smart with the witty replies. And the beautiful thing is the juxtaposition of irony and sincerity, where you can show up with tentative beliefs, like a tentative stance that if it doesn't actually work, or Islam doesn't serve Well, you realise actually, there's a better way here. You can let go of fluidly to embrace a better form,

29:48
putting like, the like, I love Jesus or putting like the crucifix or whatever in your Instagram bio. Yeah. Or what do they said like Son of God. This is what people say what do people say? Like they put like a, like if they're religious, communicating that in an Instagram bio, what do you think that that's trying to communicate?

30:14
It's probably trying to communicate a certain set of values, sense of belonging to a particular community and a disposition way of looking things. I'm, there's probably a younger version of me that was more in, in kind of indoctrinated in the dogma of scientism, that would have scoffed and, you know, played the atheist card. Nowadays, I'm trying to be a little bit more curious and try not to presuppose what it might mean, because we realised that it could mean a whole bunch of things like

30:46
identity, I guess the if it's in your bio, there's a sense that you associate your identity to it. Here we go, which potentially I worry that I don't know how you can have a conversation potentially Or the critical nature of it seems to be potentially lost when identity is associated to something. So this is an example of laughing,

31:09
right? Like the the buyers that you create for your social media, you're presenting a certain aspect of your otherwise infinitely complex selfness to the world. So you thinking I want to show up and I'm just going to choose to shine a light on this facet of myself, like minimalism. Like if you said in your Instagram bio,

31:26
I'm a minimalist. Yeah, I'd be less likely to have it feel comfortable with having a critical conversation on minimalism because it would feel like a personal attack on that person's identity. Rather than I know.

31:40
It's It's It's hard. I don't know how you guys do this. You do it. So definitely when it comes to interviewing folks, because I've had folks on my, my poultry podcast have a mere I can't even remember how many episodes I've had it certainly

31:55
4749 49 There you go.

31:58
Yeah, no, it's no fun. 500 and whatever, you know, you guys have got, but I've had times where I've had people come over, you know, I've chatted with them, and they identify as an expert in something and I realised, oh, I've actually got quite a, you know, set of questions here that might undermine your expertise. I mean, I don't know what to do, because I care about you and your reputation. And you know, this has been recorded. At the same time, if you are an expert, expert, and I actually like the term expert, by the way, because that implies a finality. And most of us are all just learning as we go along. And some people have expertise in more time learning in that domain, but I think it's unhelpful to call ourselves expert or Master, you know, I've mastered this. And so yeah, I get trapped back. So someone said they call themselves a minimalist, and then you happen to know about some of the early philosophers of minimalism and you wanted to ask them about that. And you can see that kind of flinch in their eyes where you realise you just dropped a name that they have no idea what they're talking about you but you're talking about, and then they're kind of you didn't you know, and they know that you know that you're there. Don't try to bluff their way Through an answer fuck it gets better right and I say and then you've got a gently cradle them because they're so wrapped up in their identity around this and this is the thing any kind of arguments or disagreements like this becomes an ontological affront our ontology is our worldview everything that we've that's shaped us about how we see the world what we value what we how we make judgments, if you're suddenly undermining someone's identity yeah they show up in the world. That's that's a tricky territory to play in. And all of this stuff is look if we can if we can just be more curious and kind and loosen our grip on who we think we are. It may just allow us to become a more apt version of self that may allow us to grow into versions of self that is more congruent and coherent with the time and situation that we find ourselves in.

33:49
Well, I think the the master the guru or the the pert, the the person who not like what was the word you use? expert expert to say should paint paint yourself as an expert and being on LinkedIn, there's a million video experts. For a moment. I think you got Yeah. Have you actually made a video and it's got more than 200 views? I did not. And so I get that point, but I see where it serves. Yeah as sort of crafting it. So someone can make a instant judgement, which is the buyer thing, finite game

34:19
that's

34:22
part of the infinite game.

34:23
Yeah. And so how does that serve the infinite game? If it is? Yeah,

34:27
well, totally because we're all participating in our own mythmaking here. a myth is a story that is retold and retold for the sake of its retelling. And the for example, the more I show up as a wizard, and I hope that people get the kind of ironic notes here like, hopefully the viewers realise I didn't actually tell a podium today. It was under the desk.

34:52
haven't added any effects. No confusing TV.

35:01
The kind of the, for me, I've chosen visit persona because I have discomfort with the term thought leader. And that's another thing on LinkedIn, everyone's a thought leader nowadays. Everyone's also self publish their own books. Everyone's an author, and everyone's an expert or some description, and everyone's a speaker nowadays. And so if there was an archetype that kind of encapsulates kind of like a suggestion that there's some knowledge and wisdom, but doesn't necessarily subscribe to the same standard, you know, expert thought leader that it was it could be it for me, and I said, it's a role that I can play. So it comes back to the BIOS that we create the signals that we put out in the world shape, how others perceive us to be. And when we think about it,

35:47
you

35:48
only appear in other people's lives and certain moments like a lot of people around this time end of year, they're catching up with family friends back at home, that I haven't seen all year. And then these family friends will say something All Yeah, how'd you go with that theme that we're talking about 12 months ago, and you realise, oh shit, they got such an outdated version of who I am right now I have to kind of update them. And so their view of who you are is only seen in these snapshots. And so then it gets us thinking, but not thinking too hard not trying to craft or present or present or be fake versions, but just makes us realise how we show up in the world influences how, who people perceive us to be. And so your BIOS and all the other things then shapes this kind of interesting character. And if we think about it, if we think about life as though we're not the central protagonists here, life is not all about us. We actually show up as characters in the lives of others, and then gets us thinking, how do we want to show up in the world and hopefully we oriented towards showing up in a way that's more kind and encouraging and in a way that brightens and enlivens and enriches the lives of those around us.

36:54
I'm sure you've I mean, I'm sure there's people watching this listening, who have been told the advice So read that they should become a thought leader, an expert, a guru in their specific field. And if you look at it is a box inside of the box. Is that sort of magical thinking outside is the bold move of becoming a wizard that not everybody can do? And and if you believe like I don't think I'll be a wizard or put on some persona, I don't think I want to go an expert route. Where do you land? What is the alternative? Because I think it probably doesn't do a good job. I feel like I know quite a bit about this, you know, the columns of where does the where does it land if you don't feel right being the expert or trying? Yeah, because you'll get unstuck because that will happen if

37:42
I think about you guys with it when it comes to video production like this, this beautiful thing there. And this is the beautiful probably the message for everything, everyone. Like even though, you know, I'm a wizard, of course I try. I try not to I try not to bang on But is there anything to say about the videos that you guys you found, at least in my perspective night and I've shopped around a kind of a unique style deposition, a way of unearthing a realness that doesn't use the standard bag of tricks that many folks do. There's a kind of, I don't know, it's it's similar and how this manifests in the show here kind of an ability to get beneath the surface narratives, to kind of really honour the human beneath it all. I love that. And it's kind of like continue doing that great work and sharing that work. And you kind of don't need to talk up the work itself or who you are, because the work speaks for itself. And similarly in my world, it's less about what I say about myself and more about the the thoughts and the writing and the stuff that I share in the world. And my worry is with the whole thought leader thing is, and I love thought leadership in the early days, I think it was really, really good. And then And then it just became as all things do that just like even mindfulness now is becoming corrupted by consultants and capitalism. And I worry that now now what I thought leaders, it's much more obsessed around, you know, how what how you write your buyers, how you present in the world, what clothes you wear, your colours and logos, and it's all that superficial shit instead of actually. Well, what, you know, if we look at thought leadership, specifically, real thought leadership is suspect, like a real thought leadership is like, I don't really, I don't I don't know. What does that come from? it because it that's actually leadership because you're so out of the field from where most people are thinking what's not as polished? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's raw. It's real. It's emerging. It's still in draft. Most of the thought leadership that people experience in LinkedIn and stuff is just the conventional narratives that been has been polished again and maybe presented in a very, very slightly new light.

39:50
And you playing in the is it called the second simplicity is that

39:55
second simplicity refers to the fact that in complexity, one might find these factors Simplicity's, there's kind of reoccurring patterns. So if you look at a phone that's unfurling, you'll see patterns within the phone because the ferns like a fractal, same as broccoli and cauliflower and stuff. And so second simplicity refers to the fact that some people have spent enough time exploring the complexity that they've identified a pattern that's like, a Yeah, this this kind of this holds true. The trouble is, second simplicity is people can ape that and you'll have people saying the same thing as a first version of simplicity, without having to without having done that exploration. So is that the thought leadership stuff then people are coming up and saying, Jason's doing Jason's got the speaker's guide or whatever, you know, in like the booklet and it's got the the website, and he wears a wizard hat. And so they do all that sort of stuff, but they don't understand the strategy, the ironies, and here's the thing, right? So I've, I've launched this programme called choose one word and choose one word calm and annual ritual of becoming ways of practice fluidity in who we are and who we might become

41:00
Stop you're out there we need to give kudos to where kudos is due one word calm

41:05
what a demand choose one word. One word choose one word

41:14
yeah thank you thank you

41:15
yeah.com I think

41:18
he's always it

41:22
I also have the quibble

41:23
the crippled equivalent you but the the kind of like if you go to the end there it kind of not good. Identity there.

41:39
Tommy jacket.

41:41
I think there is a thing about Facebook. Oh yeah, right right. And so I but I think that potentially was the the know that is back. I think that it's almost I think what Facebook has become, as soon as I dropped the the, they became this capitalist capitalistic, sort of my opinion. You know, company that lost all of its soul?

42:04
Yeah, like I interrupted you, you got your website they are. So

42:08
this is the thing. Right so we're talking about second Simplicity's first and simplicities and choose one word, right? African artist, let's just choose one word. And so there's folks out there that will, you know, say, here's how you can pick your word. Pick is an interesting choice. And, and why what what, what do you think about the semantics and linguistics and the kind of the tone of pick, pick what runs it pick, you know, stick dick link, you know, it's just it doesn't have a bunch like it doesn't. It doesn't feel good it is. It's, it's a bit it's a bit like that an epic, you know, it's like, whereas like choose or find that kind of there's a softer, more. There's a different there's a different quality to that word. And so of course, though discover, yes, discover. Yeah, of course. I'm trying to

43:01
Well, you can return the domain discover your word.

43:06
Just one word.com.

43:07
So this kind of online programme that I put together has about 75 videos and more than, I think more than six hours of content to help people to choose that word for the involves deep exploration, self knowledge, self development, self actualization. And I also know that it could equally people could arrive at the first simplicity and just go out there and pick a word that sounds good at the moment. I did a presentation just a couple of days ago, and in my keynotes, I introduced the topic to them. And then afterwards, the CEO came and thanked me and you know, as I do, and I said, No, I reckon I've got my word. And my word is pride. I'm so proud of this group. And I think my word next year is going to be pride. And I thought,

43:53
Ah, that is a sheet where

43:57
just like can you just put a little bit more thought into This guy, my issue with the word pride rise is this is typically masculine approach of appropriating other people's achievements. So the team's done amazing ways. I'm so proud of you. I am so proud. And yeah, where's the

44:13
responsibility? I mean, you could it could be I want to act

in the way that I would be proud of. Yeah. spectively I don't know. But

44:22
I see where you said the one word thing. How long have you been doing this for because I feel like maybe 2015 I think I saw a presentation. I filmed one. I think that it was around the One World word stuff like one of the Agile conferences potentially.

44:36
That's right. You know, I've been speaking about this for good nine years.

44:41
And so the idea is rather than goals, news resolutions, it is that is it. Is this the second simplicity like coming up with one word or how would you

44:53
I would say it does have a fractal simplicity to it. One of the charms I love about choosing one word is that if you're young person and you still got a beautiful naivety about you. You're still believing in everything and the universe is wonderful and enchanted. It works for you. If you're a jaded, sceptical person who is kind of lost the sense of meaning and sees the life real as really complex, but can't actually find any solid ground to make meaning, the one word process still works for you. It works for busy folks it works for the part of the gift of choosing one word is if you choose a word that has has enough social stickiness that it's got like enough faqir quality to it like that's just like, Oh, that's a good word. Like your friends Remember that? And then through the year, they check in with you occasionally. Like I think your word was

45:45
an architect like so. This time. Last year, it was jam we bumped into you and I'd spoken about it was right. We chose in our words and then we show you mine was

45:57
deliberate consumption. Yeah, yeah. And yours is consistent. So this is what's fact that I remember

46:03
mine I'm trying to remember your

46:05
your session

46:06
nothing was conscious, conscious consumption effect.

46:12
thing is I think like in upon reflection speaking to you, it potentially falls into that sort of pride sort of being proud because it doesn't because what if

46:23
it's not as dangerous as a pride thing that you're not going to be evoking feelings of shame potentially is which is the shadow side of pride.

46:30
So what what have your words been previously? Oh, so this year, what's what's

46:36
the fool is about inverting paradigms and embracing philosophies that may have any be laughed at, which is kind of why I've ramped up meta modernism as a thing.

46:45
You and I are always sort of butting heads on because when I film you, I say, dance.

46:52
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

46:55
It's trying to get me to dance on a rock the other day

46:58
which is great. I have a more mythic

47:00
lens of the full. If you think about the tarot card or the full, you know the, you know the little sack on the end of a stick walking off in society being chased by a dog Jester Have you been to just take us through so I had rogue which is more about me finding my own way, I had kingly, which is more about me stepping up and stop elevating everyone around me. I had a year of the word prime and prime I think falls in the same trap that franchise

47:25
delivery

47:30
was more like prime numbers. It was far too abstract. People couldn't remember it. I couldn't remember it

47:34
was a trunk what we trying to do with

47:36
i was i was i felt like a, I think I was turning 31 as a prime number. I felt like it was I was in the prime of my life. I thought it was time to go primetime in terms of having more visibility and showing up in the world. There was a bunch of eloquent meaning wrapped up into it, but it didn't serve me as a word because it didn't have enough social stickability. Like it's just not didn't have that fuck yeah, quality to it. And I have to pry my hand pirate pirate had a little fucky Piniella drinking wilbraham exploring my uncharted territories looking after my mates being commercially savvy important. I didn't have the year of the gentlemen pirate or gentlemen, now gentlemen had the root word of invest I got to a point in life where I realised that I'm kind of squandering like opportunities here and stuff I want to invest invest in like quality and all things be a paragon of aplomb to actually care about stuff invest itself though is a pretty boring word but as something that is more lively and other people as well as I think I can invest invest well, who is this gentleman is kind of like a gentleman explorer gentleman part. And that's Yeah, over the year pirate people like oh, yeah, and I was like, No, no, it's more like your gentleman pirate and then I had the just just it was about telling truth to those in positions of power. I was doing a lot of more work with CEOs and stuff and then I had the or the wizard, which is all about going deep into my tower and writing my book and it's pouring the cosmos. Here I am the year of the fool.

49:02
And what's next year? Have you?

49:06
Yeah, I suspect and you know, I try not to leave two words. So this has been a process of percolating I was playing with the word supervillain for some time and

49:16
I like it. I was playing hyphenation, so Okay.

49:20
Yeah, you can also write that word without the hyphenation Okay, so no rules man. But so super villain because I kind of am pissed off by heroes sometimes that kind of hear the hero interventionists, the consultants or whatever they think they have all the answers and come in and end up causing more problems than they than that solving. But then the Joker came out and supervillain just kind of had a different different you know, quality. And, you know, with like, mass shootings and stuff like that going on in the world.

49:51
We don't need another super villain.

49:53
I do like super villains that are kind of clever and thinking about how can we solve the ecological crisis you know, the ends justifies the means but had too much darkness. So I've also related to the word bad. Like a bond is like an entertainer astronomer Brd they are the Yeah, it's Yeah, it's a character class and Dungeons and Dragons to minstrels skulled travel. What I've noticed, particularly for this word is the last two words that I've had wizard and fall have drawn me away from society have drawn me back into my own cave. And this is a year about coming, going back into having more visibility being more prominent. I set up a rhythm with you guys to get some filming done regularly so we can have more films going out in the world, which I love. And so so for me, it kind of guides me to see a bit more poetry and things to kind of have a little bit more and to bring a bit more enchantment rather than darkness and bitterness, which I've done in the past. So

50:50
and the word I chose, which, in the moment of telling you the cafe, you security, nailing it and it was consistency. And retrospectives I think that I chose a word that I knew was working. And I wanted to ramp that up. And so this year I've been more consistent in the things that I hope myself to than any other year of my life. And I feel like then moving into a new year, I've built the muscle around that to keep it going. is the idea that a new word New Year is not pushing that aside

51:26
all you know, you take on a new subsume the stuff you assimilate, because it's still part of who you are. That's why

51:32
you're wearing a wizard outfit.

51:34
Yeah, was it was 2018 That's right. Yeah, exactly. I'm still the pirate as well, all of the things and it's it's a kind of it's a it's a it's self growth and self development. You kind of I really liked that notion of consolidating, so it's not, you know, you might have had some good consistency, but you could just you could rush this thing I call I've got it sorted and not really bad that down. So I think that's that's marvellous, and you don't lose that. That's still part of what you're doing. But it might just be that another aspect of your own growth edge comes into focus. And so this is why I think that with the choosing word for a year, it's not helpful for for people to choose, like a lot of people choose things like, love, happiness balance. And these are kind of eternal things that we'd probably want in every single year. It's not like not not in one particular year, every single year. So it's worth and thinking, all right, well, given what I know about who I am, given what I know about the patterns that exist in life as I laid it, given what I know about the frictions and the tensions and the fulfilment factors and the hidden commitments and conflicting values that I experienced in the years beforehand, what might be a directionality to lean into what might be something that I, I could just Foster and cultivate and grow a little bit more knowing that I'll probably stumble. Because the thing about choosing one word is it's not a goal. You're not kind of trying to narrow your focus and try to win at that it's more like a for want of a better word and Northstar a guide and beacon to guide you in the complexities of life. So be curious to see what you know, after some reflection, what like what might be something you want to lean into. And then if you end up with a word, that's something like consistency or conscious consumption, playing with that for a little while and seeing what's a, you know, an archetype word or an aspect where that may show up, like when I say aspect, I mean, like, if I would say it's the year of the tiger, people might have a sense of Oh, like ferocity or, you know, if I say It's the Year of the lion,

53:30
what does that evoke for you? tigers and lions? I sort of they merged into one for me.

53:35
Okay, but as to say it was the year of the peacock.

53:40
Yeah, yeah. Yes, definitely. Standing,

53:43
resplendent, flourishing. You know, that's it. So yeah. So you can choose like a particular if you find your way, what's your intention? And then play with it and think, okay, what's the word that I can drop So, so hard? Potentially, I'm worried about the social stickiness of it. I've played with it. So yeah, it's one of the things I had a I was going to use the word faith one day No one knows what faith is no one knows about life okay, I've met faith before. If a bad and this is something I still like I've still got a softness to this it might be something that I still need to spin a little bit more so like the year just as really trying to tap into Fei Fei folk fairy folk, you know, the the folk that is bringing about magical realism in the world. Bad might, it's very strong for me, but I might just need to tilt a jilted a little bit to kind of work a little bit more. Like the most mundane version of that would be entertainer

54:40
or show person so where's the new wants it so bad? Because if you teach us bad, then we can make sure that we keep you accountable. So can you describe exactly if he changed? What he's about? So how do you describe it? So layering on to the entertainer thing, so it's an ocarina, right? So the nuance is,

54:56
OK, so I'm going to draw heavily from dungeon Dragons here. If you're going to play a bard class in dungeons dragons, they are like a master of all things. But especially not so much a specialist of any particular things. They pick up different skills. And I've I like that notion of being a generalist. I think that I mean, the stuff that you guys do the number of conversations, you building this kind of pool of knowledge. And that appeals to me. So, in terms of principles, though, the things that I personally need to lean into reflecting on previous years is bringing more enchantment and liveliness and brightness into the world. I kind of for the last two years, I've been cycling up talking about how

55:40
everybody's talking about how

55:44
you know how fuck the world is and stuff like that. That's not really that that's I don't think that's serving the world as well as it could be so trying to bring a bit more enchantment and liveliness. There's also an nimbleness and grace like so. I'm trying to cultivate more lightness and play in my own world. Instead of being heavy and serious, and so part of the art of a performer is you work with reality. So whatever related issues top two, you improvise, you respond fluidly. And I also, there's a kind of a way of embracing the notion of poetry. And I don't mean that in terms of like a bunch of words that rhyme. I mean that in terms of hacking, we smuggling kinds of truth that don't otherwise work in conventional ways. So for me, it's like how we show up in society and how all of my things I tend to try to play with a trickster thing like I speak to large corporate audiences that I know that there are many plants within the organisations that are just waiting to working their way into positions of influence so they can pull the labels on the right things. But I also know this is wonderful quote from a book called The Name of the Wind. It's a fancy book by Patrick Rothfuss. And one of the failures explaining to be one of the characters then we understand how dangerous masks can be. We all become more We pretend to be and this notion of we become what we pretend to be this notion of pretending as in if you tend to do a particular things, how can you pretend so that man pretending becomes the tending becomes who you are. And this is this is something dangerous for me because I know, I know folks that say to themselves, I'm just going to do this flying fly out work just for a couple of years just to get enough money to pay for the house. And then six, eight years later, they're still working the job because they become, they become what they pretended to be. And for me as a someone who speaks in corporate audiences and stuff like that, there are certain elements and like I need to kind of sidle into different forms of self, but also know how dangerous a mask can be, which is why we choose a word every single year. So there's a lot of myth, enchantment, liveliness, entertainment wonder that I'm bringing as a bad at least I hope to it still takes some time, like the first three months is still like awkward. And then you start to really learn the lessons and then there's something beautiful that happens around midwinter, if you're choosing this at this particular time. The Southern Hemisphere. midwinter reveals the dark a deeper lessons that you didn't want to learn. I didn't realise we needed to learn. And then as you come into spring, you start to contemplate the new word

58:09
the year ahead. I think it's exciting 2020 for you, because there's, you've been giving all of this information to top executive CEOs cooperates with whereas I feel like this, choose one word and all that sort of thing is moving into allowing just the regular gronk totally get this

58:28
Oh, yeah, I'm actually going a little bit tired of that whole world. And yeah, I think that it's all this is how do we orientate towards future relevance? And you know, if you think to think like, I imagined that, when I forgotten what was your, what's your kid's name,

58:43
buddy,

58:44
buddy? Yeah, when Brody came into your world, there are probably this whole thing of like, Jesus, there's probably some things that need to kind of shift and change. There's a new context you're living into now. You're not your father. And that's another archetype for you to step in and live into. And then for many folks as they get To this point in the year, they're thinking what's going to be different about the year ahead? If you think about your life as though or an autobiography where every single moment has been written down in this book, its narrative fallacy, but still helpful. And then if you look back in the last few years, and you see those same patterns repeating, and you know that they trigger the same anks, and disappointment, suffering, and then you look at the blank chapters of the year ahead, you think, what might be different about the year ahead? I think this is a question that all of us can tap into. And I think that the work required to choose and find a word, you can't it's not something you can do every week or every month that would lose its efficacy, but once a year to actually just reflect introspect, and then potentially project kind of words to serve as a beacon, I think could be really helpful for all of us. I'm super curious. You always have some time. I'll give you access to this programme. I also want to point out by the way, I know I mentioned that choose one word thing. There's I've made a special link because I love daily talk show I've made a special link that if you guys are hearing this and if you're curious and you'd like to kind of go into this don't use the link on my actual website find the link underneath the podcasting or in the YouTube video for this episode

1:00:10
I set up

1:00:11
this is the first time China show

1:00:16
is the first time I've done this but as I apparently this auto magic thing where anyone who signs up then you guys will get like a portion of the thing so I might be able to keep the lights on

1:00:26
it's a good it's gonna be a good year how do you deal with within the infinite game finite game? business so making cash How does it how does that play in because I can see how a bunch of pushback that after reading the infinite you know finite infinite games thinking initially mentioned Simon cynics

1:00:48
game.

1:00:53
Yeah, the trying to sort of live a life and be a responsible adult. While still following Yeah, man, the infinite guy.

1:01:03
Yeah, it's fucked. It's so hard. I come back to the both ending. And it's, it's kind of the irony and sincerity they, I don't know, because we're still operating within the current, you know, dominant system of capitalism. And I don't know how to, you know that there's glimmers of how we can kind of get beyond this, but I suspect it's going to require some sort of big system collapse, which is not going to be a fun time for anyone. So in the meantime, though, I got super inspired by Sam Harris's waking up course he has his line, and I borrowed the inspiration for me. And if you're in a situation, you truly can't afford it, send us an email and we'll give you it for free. And then we've got that stance as well. It's like if there are people that would really love this but genuinely can't afford it, send us an email and we'll get them lifetime access for free. And I think this is kind of way of just softening things. You're talking about minimalism before. I think when the nerveless things that we can do In this world that we're in right now is not just consume less, not just buy more material stuff and not not not not simply be conscious about our consumption, which I think is very noble. It's also like, do we need to hustle and and as much doing really need to get in that ramp and capitalistic growth pathway that we're so often encouraged because you end up working more to earn more to then buy more stuff that you then need to work harder to pay for. And if we can get to this point where we realise Okay, coming back to gratitudes, some of the best things in life going and grabbing a coffee, sit in the sun chatting with some friends for the morning, or simpler things that like that, but just don't require us to obsess. There's a beautiful book called How to do nothing by Jenny Odell

1:02:50
nothing in blank.

1:02:52
Oh, it's beautiful. She's a bird watcher. And, you know, just it just, there's some sensibilities that I think we're kind of reawakening to that require us to walk that don't require us to get onto that hyper growth pathway that many folks that

1:03:07
love to learn but I'd love to go birdwatching. Would that be something you'd be interested in doing with me? Have you got to open up binoculars? never done it before that I will know what you're talking about birds that fly. Yeah.

Yeah, that'd be lovely. Yeah, so let's do that. I want one of these like in Melbourne, like in Victoria, I guess we can find out.

1:03:31
I feel like there's a here's, here's something interesting. I'm someone who identifies as a hiker and the camp but I love the outdoors. But if I look back at the number of times that I actually never done it. Which is interesting identity in evidence right? So I haven't been anywhere near as much more time in nature next year is definitely something as not as the enchantment of the year of the Bard, or whatever I word I choose that people understand

1:03:56
that thing I think is very interesting. The identity like what we think that we are And then yes, Ali without actions.

1:04:02
Yeah, because we are our actions. Yeah, they speak true, more true to who we are then what we just say we

1:04:08
I guess that pretending plays well into that. Hmm. So rather than trying to sculpt and say I'm a writer and all that, so then what about the actual act of writing? Like Actually, that's the hard way

1:04:23
to say it, I think it's also like understanding what the successes are what what success looks like for you. So for for instance, around the, the the master the guru thing, and there's people making money doing that stuff. They might not know the most, but they're not like I find the conversations with you. I feel proud of myself based on feeling like I can keep up with the intellectual nature of the conversation versus when you're on several hundred of these episodes. And that's like, for me the the growth I feel inside. Your brand is very intelligent, thoughtful. It's It's, it's thought out, you know, like, you've been pondering these things for a long time It feels like and you have knowledge to back it up. Whereas I think I have empathy for the person that gets into the I'm a coach. I'm a, you know, like a I'm a video, you know, expert, because I know how tough it is to even get started. Yeah, and when you don't have the intelligence to back it up. I don't in the way that you you know, present. There's this like, I've got to just fucking give something a crack. And and that's not even at the moment of taking into consideration what success looks like. So for some of these people, I see that have success probably have come from the line I actually don't know much. But I'm just I have to assume this and then it works. Then I money and then you shift and so there is so much nuance to these brand, and what we're doing presenting to the world, oh,

1:05:56
hundred percent and let's come back to this the curiosity and kindness And we're all kind of living a complex world with many battles on many fronts, and we're trying to make the best of it with the resources that we have. And certainly I look back on like, one of the funniest things is to look at use wayback machine to kind of like look at where people have come from. And yeah, I used to claim to be a thought leader and expert. My first business card had ethicacy experts. And because people didn't know what efficacy was, I put the definition of advocacy on the it's, it's the Allen vise, quote, I'm constantly surprised by how stupid I was two weeks ago.

1:06:39
Yeah, I've heard you said,

1:06:41
I'll give us permission. So we'll have permission to grow. And, you know, as this young person is thinking, I'd love to get into video. It seems like the whole thing. You know, there's a certain way of like, like, the swagger of how you show up in the world, that you know if we can make it it's tricky, right? nuanced and authentic swagger or at least a kind of, there's an if there's a knowingness or

1:07:06
luggage, no baggage as well, like when you when someone starts filming, they don't realise that you can fuck the white balance and do that. So think so it's a non issue. I really want to do these cards. Do the first thing I've never done on the show before. I'm going to pick the I needed to

1:07:22
so the naive

1:07:24
I can do a reading for

1:07:26
for Tom.

1:07:28
I'll just I'll just read the Navy that someone enters a Korea with you could say the the quiet around the person I was two weeks but you know, three

1:07:38
days before us is three minutes

1:07:40
ringette. And so if you lose that night evenly and you're still playing in a similar realm, it can be crippling based on having too much context, not willing to be as confident or not willing to step up like you used to when you had no understanding of Yeah,

1:07:56
the app Qatar Italy and this is the fragility of success right? So when people do well, and they start to develop systems, and it's working really well for them, and it success is fragile. Once you are successful, you have more to lose. And then people start to protect the systems and the way that they do things and it becomes all defensive and rigid. And they've lost that. naivety and can do and let's just say and let's explore and I don't know what I'm doing, but let's, let's say yes to this, and it becomes heavy and serious. And so part of the part of the process here is there is it that you right, there's a beautiful, brilliant charm to the naivety of the early stage. And this is something that we can subsume into naive knowingness because if we go from Neva teach and knowing to then thinking, I've got it all figured out, I know what all then you kind of you lose curiosity and wonder. Whereas if there's a way that you can bring a rekindle naivety back into the mix, you still know stuff, but you're trying to be naive as well. You may just open up new pathways is it maybe like the the shift so from when you had those business cards to the person You are now entering into like a new persona or, I mean the word thing associating to a way of outwardly, projecting who you are or who you want people to see you, as gives you the ability to step into this. actually haven't done this before I can be a bit naive actually don't know how people are going to perceive it. And it's an advantage to it's like, sometimes you can say, Look, I know there's like, I know, there's a standard way to do things. And then there's plenty other folks that will give you this, this, this and this. I'm not so sure. And it's going to be pretty fun to explore what we can do together, but I got some suspicions. We can do this, this and this or at least play in these areas. And so it's like a fresh offering compared to all the other professionals that are doing it the right way.

1:09:42
What about the identity I'm back guys know, the identity of the devil's advocate.

1:09:51
I'd say it's like a role that we can play. I wouldn't identify as I am. I am a devil's advocate. It's a role we can play. And this this notion of roles right? It's a it's like its orientation towards relevance. How can we contribute in a meaningful way. And you're talking about, like, where people are at, if we zoom out even beyond a year, there are phases within life. Like there's the schooling and the education and stuff like that. And then there's learning the ropes of your particular industry and stuff like that, and maybe switching roles and stuff. And then there's this building and trying to establish some foundations and you know, entertaining on what life phase you're in. Maybe it does make sense that someone's in hustle mode, I'm personally incredibly fatigued by the hustle culture that that exists in the world. But I also understand that it's an incredibly competitive world now and people have to compete on a global world stage nowadays instead of just within the local community. And so it's it's bloody tough and so I can understand empathise if you're in that particular phase of life. Yeah, there's a different shift in ordering of priorities.

1:10:49
Something healing about sovereign Hill. Like when you wear your outfits and I think about like, you've got like a young lady sort of mentality Sometimes

1:11:00
talking about the time that that

1:11:02
was 1800s not specifically the Adventure Park that

1:11:06
is, the costumes there was no toilets. It was, well, I just think of like the plague.

1:11:12
Think about this. But just think about like, working in a shop like it, I guess when you talked about more like the hyper local stuff or like, it got me just thinking about the beauty of working on the main street, and the main street, actually meaning something and it's where everyone has to walk through. And it's, you can work at the lolly shop, or you could be like a blacksmith.

1:11:35
So this is I mean, there's a lot of pining for the nostalgia of times past and, you know, like that point like when people are saying, Why can't you just return to or growing your own food, you know, like people used to do and they have this romantic view. And they forget that actually, when you're living on subsistence farming, and then your crops die out, you run the risk of starvation, your family could die like is like, it's like cool, that's this beautiful charm there but you know, that the thing is different nowadays is back then We would have these communal areas where we had moments of interaction. And people would read the newspaper and there'd be a shared narrative so people could talk about the same issues together. Nowadays, we're living in fragmented atomized society people are getting the information world using connection community via their devices, and kind of bumbling about and we're in many size places were losing that sense of community via collision and shared space. But we're also seeing the rekindling of this and this is where i hat tip and thank the the the hipsters and hippies of the world who are bringing a little bit more meaning and enchantment like you know a lot about the bullshit as well but but the sense of Yeah, let's like let's do some slow food stuff like it's actually like spend some time let's like, go hang out in the fire and you know, under the stars and stuff because we were kind of otherwise losing that togetherness and community and

1:12:54
I look I think I've it's probably a judgemental thought though. When I've met someone who I believe is living a simple life you, you know, you're out in the bush or whatever, you driving through a small town, you made somebody like, you're happy with this, because they seem happy. And it's like, less worry. But then I actually think about, we're all humans having our own experience. And so they would be battling with their own stuff. Yeah. And then I think about taking on more and building a business and having more responsibility and family, I was like, it's just a level of playing at that. So you have to change. You can't be as simplistic in thinking or you can't act as yeah as that and so I feel like I always look to people who have less responsibility and I don't even have that much in comparison to the you know, fortune 500 CEO that has so much responsibility. And so then I think, I think I looked at the simplicity as like, that would be easier. Oh, yeah.

1:13:55
Our time to

1:13:56
save money, right. But if we had heaps of money, then it's fine. Even though they say money doesn't buy happiness or whatever you like, I reckon it would help. Yeah.

1:14:07
Yeah. And there's I mean, there's that there's a notion. I mean, I do the same night that probably on every three or four days, I say to Kim, like, oh, it wouldn't be nice just to kind of work nine to five and then at five o'clock, you just switch off and you don't think about work at all. But you know, we're all playing different roles here. And life is kind of deltas, different hands and we've we're kind of we're doing the best we can with the resources that we have. What was that you just had

1:14:34
said about the money thing.

1:14:36
So the notion of Hellenistic adaptation is an important thing for us to keep in mind. Like it's lifestyle crepe,

1:14:41
right.

1:14:42
Yeah, exactly. So we get more money cool, but then our expectations increase, and that's why I kind of back when I did do hiking and camping. I love how there's like a reset button to your hedonistic adaptation. You know, like you get back home and just so grateful for water that comes out of a tap or, you know, the notion of a mattress that you can lay down on And I think that without us disrupting the the otherwise lifestyle creep bullheadedness together, we just end up kind of wanting more and more and so maybe there are some Yeah, and then maybe there is a kind of a wisdom to those that have found some sort of groove. And yet possibly the possibly the in their world. They're like thinking I should do more and I'm not sure what my other friends think of me or you, who knows what's going on in the inner worlds of others, but comes back to curiosity and kindness and doing the best we can with the resources we got. So you brought this

1:15:29
Okay, this is great. So you've got a cards that kind of describe it, it's in a shot. It's in a black box. It's got some silver foiling. First Edition, it is 506 of 5000 of these have been made.

1:15:48
It's how you pronounce it Supra Supra. It's a super article and it's got someone doing something with the hand. Oh yeah, it's got beautiful gold foil. What I love about this so this is a Kickstarter project. I backed out I really liked the artwork of it. And a lot of people carry Oracle cards with them. It's kind of like, you know, have you heard of tarot cards and tarot cards has a has quite a formula to it. And, you know, there are certain cards that have certain meanings attached to it. I didn't necessarily know enough about that world. And all I know is there's a bunch of cards in here that have different words or concepts on them that serve as useful provocations to help me to think about some of the things that are vexing me or are from new perspectives and new angles. This is fun. So I would like lay a magical realism here. So for anyone who's playing along at home, if you can find an Oracle deck, it is entirely possible for you to maintain your rational intellectual scepticism and still have fun during this. And at the same time if you want to allow yourself to indulge and so I did this just spontaneously the other day was someone there's a tarot deck on the bookshelf and I'll say here, let me let me read your omen. And then I picked out a card for them. And it said the tower. And then later we walked to go find some lunch and they didn't know what they wanted to eat for lunch. We looked at the menu and there was a burger called the tower.

1:17:17
This is perfect that I would always have done. The tower again, that's the fifth diner.

1:17:26
If the article said so.

1:17:28
So what I'm going to get a

1:17:30
card that says, muscle chef, what's important, what do I want my muscle shape my muscle chef,

1:17:35
I'm going to get you to shuffle this deck, I can't grant and then we're going to choose three cards. And let's set the context for this. This might be three cards that might help to influence or guide the theme of your year ahead. I like that my terrible is here

1:17:53
the softening of my language. Like this is it Sorry, I'm going to get three cans. Yeah, he turned them over. I don't necessarily have to pick

1:18:03
them all from the top by the way I show just like hanging out if it helps if it helps just like maybe hum a little bit and you know sends out the cards. Does anyone done like, scratchy or something and you want

1:18:19
them all complex in the States. It was like, get another one you

1:18:25
asked when they're announcing the winner. He didn't realise it's on the scratch

1:18:30
$1 he will you just say that, you know?

1:18:35
Sorry. All right.

1:18:37
Okay. Okay, that's that's great. That's

1:18:41
this one.

1:18:43
Okay, one at a time. One at a time.

1:18:44
Okay. Turn it over. Yeah, yeah, okay. Okay. Whatever we can sorry. I was really feeling something here. It is. Does that say a name is animus animus anonymous. What's animus

1:18:57
animus is at tax. into the male aspect of a more masculine energies within your psyche. So there's Anima and animus Anima, I think refers to the feminine side, anonymous isn't a more masculine side, I may have got this mixed up, which could screw things dramatically.

1:19:18
In a masculine part of the female personality in the analytic psychology. Oh, there you go. It's big squat. Really?

1:19:25
Yeah. So this may so this is trying to find and tap the masculine beat.

1:19:30
Okay, yeah, that's good. I'm thinking about or if you also think about it from the yin yang perspective, like within any of us, there's like feminine aspects within blokes. And there's also potentially masculine elements within lady folk as well. So so it might just be I don't know what don't rush to make meaning of us right now. And then it could it could, you know, be tapping into the masculine side

1:19:54
of things. I maybe we should do another testosterone test. Should we oscillate Jonah? Yeah,

1:20:01
I just need to shuffle it so that

1:20:04
you don't

1:20:06
accidentally get Joshua's you know, Ira fortune.

1:20:11
Fortune is an interesting word Ryan because it comes from the Greek god for tuna. And there was this wheel of fortune, you know, the old TV show that will unfortunate but a methodology The Wheel of Fortune was the fact that you might be having a good time in life. But at any moment, Fortuna might turn the wheel and what is good may turn you into like despair and stone and lows that are having a bad time might actually have a good time. So it's this whole if we can be kind of have a grace or stoicism where we're not so swept up in the whims of fortune and just kind of stoically go about life. That could be great.

1:20:44
To get an ej

1:20:50
Okay, myth myth. Oh, hey guy, was it man. Myth,

1:20:56
my interpretation is and and your Your interpretation. So seeing this, this is provocation for you. What's the illustration? Jason? How is that I would say that it's like a glass balloon being blown. And I would say that, you know, for a myth I'd be encouraging you to think about this story is that you live in the world, we all live in a world of stories, we swim in the sea of stories and meaning. And there are stories that you haven't heard about yourself that have become myths. And there are stories that others haven't heard about you that have kind of like that, who the myth of TJ and you might want to be thinking, Okay, how might what like what types of stories do I want to tell of myself and others to tell me,

1:21:36
how good is this? I feel like I'm really connecting with this cow.

1:21:41
This is good for the listeners that

1:21:44
you've done. You've done your humming and stuff, too. So that's out of the way.

1:21:49
It's fine. It's fine. All right, great. Okay, so I'm just the card.

1:21:57
Second card.

1:21:59
What have we got here? What is what is it?

1:22:01
So it doesn't say anything. It looks like they're holding a big biscuit. That's great. Or like a cheese board.

Have you saved me your place? There's a sign for a cheese subscription. No, I haven't. No, that makes sense. You know?

1:22:24
Does this have any meaning what's of this nature?

1:22:27
And then there's cheeseboard, so I think I need to go more picnics. That

1:22:32
Yes, I say meaning and so this is what medication evokes

1:22:35
the meaning with it so funny because that's what I've been thinking about. Like, what? Just going outside? Yeah, but just like, brain I had a great time. Like a couple of years ago, we went to Dallas for like house or whatever. And the best I hated the restaurant. No offence, but the the picnic bit where we had my wine and we're chilling out and excited, like was awesome.

1:22:57
Yeah. So that's great.

1:23:00
I'll pick my one second card, self. And that's a hand holding rings that are holding another. Oh, it's like a serpent. It's a is an eye in the middle of this snake, that's a ring.

1:23:14
So that's the snake represents that's an rubbers, which is the snake eating its own tail, which talks about the infinite nature of time. So I would, I would suggest this notion of selfness. And given all the loops and cycles, and that you might be thinking about, it might be an opportunity for you to think not just about the stories of who you are, and what others to say of you, but also think of yourself from a more eternal or infinite perspective, because you're, we all experience ourselves in this particular moment of time. But if we were to imagine what our future selves would think of us, or if we think about ourselves, as viewing the entirety of our lives, what's that all about? And I mean, these are the questions that we don't normally get time to consider but once a year, we might just kind of use that as a provocation.

1:23:59
It could be a Really good photos of the site. Yeah, remember them? Put them in Evernote 2021 again to back into Evernote, and I shuffling Thank you. Okay, Okay, here we go ahead and find our application

1:24:16
threshold threshold and what's the picture?

1:24:23
lions or Tigers kings, no king, Lion King lions, the lions. And it sort of looks like the lion from Wizard of Oz. And there's cool. And what does it sounds

1:24:38
lovely? And what does threshold mean for you?

1:24:42
thresholding is about finding the perfect balance. So it's like yeah, and I was mentioning like a slider. And like I'm thinking about the slider of contrast the contrast threshold, and so I'm trying to get just your video Ah, so it's like a threshold is about like finding like for me, if I'm using like an audio compressor or whatever, you're trying to find the exact balance to make a threshold. What's the definition of threshold? 97? Can I jump in? Yeah.

1:25:19
This is this is good. I love this. And you're actually, I think you're correct with that finding the right threshold, which is like a balance. But I also say it's like a, like a moment that we cross over what what is the technical magnitude or intensity that must be exceeded for a certain

1:25:34
reaction phenomenon or result?

1:25:37
So in

1:25:40
the, what's his name?

1:25:43
Here of 1000 faces the book that explores the monomyth I forget the author's name,

1:25:48
Joseph Campbell.

1:25:50
Talk about the hero's journey of being one that crosses certain thresholds. Where you you start you resist the call to adventure, but some sort of catalysing thing gets you on the Adventure that's crossing the first threshold. There's some sort of like conquering the dret slaying the dragon, which is the next gen threat, cross another threshold, but then there's an inner threat or an inner world thing to threat. I don't know what threshold you might be out. But it seems like a pretty powerful year for you tapping into you in your animals and having more cheese and picnics. And there's some sort of threshold that you will know that it may be time for you to cross. I like it.

1:26:27
Good. Is it?

1:26:29
Just a quick look, it says provocations right. So you know, this is it. It's a

1:26:35
framework. It's like if people draw a card that says death, right? It's not like, I'm gonna die. No, it's not like okay, what does that concept represent?

1:26:43
All right. improbability is the card of chosen and this is a duck. That's something that someone shooting a bow towards the sky. This is silhouette of the moon.

1:26:58
When you hear the word improbability, what does that Few

1:27:01
improbability.

1:27:03
I don't even know what it means to be honest. What does it What does it evoke? probability? Yeah, probability, the likelihood of something happening in in probability

1:27:14
possible in, in probability I've now, what I would suggest

1:27:18
for you is that this could be lovely provocations, like, okay, so you're contemplating these future possibilities, right? One way to look at this as like, there is a, there's that there's a possibility in the future that you think now that's very unlikely to occur. That's very improbable, you know, like the probability of that very slim. And it might be like, maybe maybe in terms of the stories that you say, and that kind of the way that you relate to the stories that are around you. Maybe that's something to lean into. If there was something that you thought were not ready yet or a few years time maybe maybe that could be something that could be part of the radar for the year end. Or maybe not, maybe this is all just bullshit right. So this is kind of like,

1:27:57
this is part of

1:27:58
the kind of oscillation if it helps If it's

1:28:01
hot right? Now they're convinced.

1:28:05
Which actually does that, you know that there is a predatory form of like self development capitalism that I don't like where, where people who own vulnerable stages of life can get sold these mythical magical programmes that are bullshit that don't necessarily help. And of course, there are some things where this this process itself is quite helpful and therapeutic. So we'll always things keep your wits about you. And if any of this helps you, maybe might evoke some, some thoughtfulness.

1:28:30
I think what I'm trying to do is connected to the thing I think so I think I have like, I don't know the word but I have the, the sort of understanding of where I want to focus on and then I'm trying to connect it to that. So I think that's what happens right? If you're feeling internally like you're onto something, but you don't haven't verbalised it and then you stop all this meat like you're connecting mainly

1:28:50
on the unconscious as well I guess, right? And so then it's like, it forces us to say okay, within the bag of stories that we have Yeah, what are these provoking? Yeah And so then it turns out that the cheese thing in deals with that happened over a year ago I'm able to pull upon that and totally think back that

1:29:10
into your consciousness and like if you if you happen to draw a card in your life that no way it kind of doubles your conviction or your sense of like yeah no I think I feel like I've got this you know that provocation? Yeah, that I think and either way like there's no right and wrong with this but it just just helps us to think about who we are and who we might become think about what's important from you know, that's so yeah,

1:29:32
well done. Guys. Love it. Thank you Jason. Choose one word.com But yeah, use the link in the Yeah, easily

1:29:38
in Canada under this in the show notes so that under the video. That way you get to support the daily talk show too.

1:29:43
And how many videos are there and title you didn't like? 75

1:29:45
current counting. I'm hoping to keep this as a dynamic thing. That may seem intimidating to some folks, but I've categorised them as like essential, extended and esoteric you know, I like to get into this territory is but you can do this as a pick a path adventure, you can just choose which ones you want to watch? And as you get a lifetime access, it's always there for you. And I hope to update it year on year. Yeah.

1:30:05
And I also love just hanging out with you because I think that you bring such an interesting sort of thought processes and experience. I feel like potentially I don't have to read as many books because I can just ask you doing in life Really? Yeah. Just roll just someone's gonna raise this deal. You're doing the reading,

1:30:25
but you're reading body language. You're reading the the tone and language that happens like this. If like, books are just one form of capturing knowledge, like the conversations, the living knowledge is another form to so it's all good. Everything is everything.

1:30:38
Thank you, Dr. Jason Fox, the wizard. It's a daily talk show. Thank you, everyone for a great year. Should we just quickly reflect? Yeah, that's

1:30:49
it's been a great year.

1:30:52
What have you been thinking about 97 coming to the to the end of 2019.

1:30:58
What I mean, so just based off that chatta I've been thinking about, I guess the term of leaning into stuff. There's always like a barrier or thought before I do something, thinking about the consequences or like ramifications of what I say or the actions that I take. So I think stepping into it and really leaning into the stuff that makes me

1:31:21
uncomfortable is Yeah, something that I want to focus on. I don't know the word for it yet. But that's the sort of idea. I think it's also like the doing this every day. I think it's shown us the power of the smaller action, if anything, right, which is like a compound and I think that doing it every day, we haven't actually been able to give things much thought, but we've been pretending for the entire year. And through that these things actually emerge. And then it's almost like what you were talking about where you go to Christmas, you know, with your family and people are saying things that are actually quite I find that quite connected with what we're doing because we are called Yeah, exactly out there. Yeah. And so I think there's definitely something in that where it's like are these actions are actually adding up to something and so maybe there's an opportunity, you know, at the end of this year now to say, Okay, let's we can actually steer it a little bit now, what's the casting it offers? You're sort of saying Yeah, yeah,

1:32:19
got some intentionality directionality in this like, uh, yeah.

1:32:23
Yeah. I love it.

1:32:24
Thanks for coming on. And thank you to all the gronk for the past year for all the emails for the reviews for the fun on Instagram. It's always great. And I think it's like, the reason why we love doing it is actually having people that we can chat to and listen to and think about all the friends we've made in the last year. It's pretty crazy. And although good First Nations tick down, it's a Happy New Year, everyone and we'll see you in 2020, which is tomorrow. See you guys bye.