Josh Janssen: [00:00:00] It's the daily talk show episode at 936.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:08] What is happening in Bronx? What is going on? Happy Monday,
Josh Janssen: [00:00:12] back in the office.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:13] Yeah. Second at back. Um, feeling as good as the other one, the same, the same now. Oh man. I'm just a bit hung over after that for Friday nights. Um, shenanigans for the Christmas party and.
Landed myself, a cold soul.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:32] You can see why people don't drink.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:34] My, I had forgotten. And now I remember
Josh Janssen: [00:00:38] what was the actual experience waking up Saturday after a Friday night of drinking. Um, first time in four months. Six six months. Yeah. But who's counting
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:49] hurt very much. It hurt and I'm silly boy. And I'm still feeling it days
Josh Janssen: [00:00:55] later.
Did you, when you're communicating to Amy, does she get it? She, like, I understand that you're like, you've fucked up. It's all
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:04] fucked up. And then I go to my parents' place. And just, they're just, just shaking heads
Josh Janssen: [00:01:09] at me in like a smile,
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:13] like yeah, you silly boy.
Josh Janssen: [00:01:16] She's silly boy.
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:17] And, um, I'm actually glad that I don't normally drink and that's going to be a thing moving forward, but I have a few occasions locked in.
Like I saw my brother out. When that night and I texted him the next day, because he'd been out for nine hours. Oh, wow. And he was in a world of pain the next day, too.
Josh Janssen: [00:01:36] So we did a cork and canvas.
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:37] Yeah. And canvas. And then, um,
Josh Janssen: [00:01:40] Jenny was lovely.
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:41] G Jenny from cork and canvas, shout out to you for putting up with us, the
Josh Janssen: [00:01:46] loosest group she's ever
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:47] had.
I think it was her last
Josh Janssen: [00:01:49] shift actually
Tommy Jackett: [00:01:50] put off it now, but, um, I mean, I'm here today, but this is what happens. Yeah. This is. I remember, um, I used to think it was, uh, like alcohol giving me cold sores, but this just like your body run down. So I've got a fucking cold sore on my lip. Which, um, you haven't pointed out, which is nice.
Josh Janssen: [00:02:08] I can't even notice it to be honest. Just looks like you've got
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:11] well, and a good thing is masks are done in Melbourne majority of the time, if you go to a supermarket mask, but everywhere else, no masks. So I had, I put the mask on for a little bit and it really annoyed me just because of the
Josh Janssen: [00:02:26] cold. Well, we've got an announcement, you know, 11 announcements last show for 2020.
Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:32] Last show. Put it in the calendar.
Josh Janssen: [00:02:35] You too late. It's too late now. It's really, it's quite easy. Once you say a highway going to finish up for the year, you start to think it's like, Why wait, why? Wait. I think the, um, we've had a massive year. Yeah. We've, we've gone from doing two shows a day and you feel, I think I can see in the team and especially if I speak for myself, I feel speak.
Tommy Jackett: [00:03:02] I'll speak
Josh Janssen: [00:03:02] to you. No, I feel the burnout. I feel like it's over in a burnout. It's like, okay, what is, if you listen to your, the daily talks about come, have you noticed the burnout? But I think that. I have seen it in myself where it's like, you know what, like it's, it's like when you're, you're, uh, you can see yourself, like it's almost an out of body experience.
I feel like I've spent more time out of my bubble. Maybe, maybe this is all that could, that it's actually explained to me. I th I think, um, no, I think there's so much at the moment. And I think that this happens maybe from stress and anxiety and all that sort of thing, you can see yourself do it saying and doing things.
And it's almost like, and you can, you just feel the tension. And so I was like, what is the, what is the benefit of potentially. Blowing up on the pond where we can wait until 20, 21 to have a blow up.
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:01] I mean, surprisingly,
Josh Janssen: [00:04:04] you don't have to play with it and put your face. You're probably just, he's picked up a lens cap.
He's gone. He's got all these suitors. He started off by grabbing his neck. And now can you just take the lens cap and piss me off? To be honest, I'm looking at the lens cap blue was up. Um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:21] no, it's like, it's like when you see the end in sight. Oh, that's all you can then think of.
Josh Janssen: [00:04:27] You're busting to piss. And then we realized that we actually had a portal right next to us.
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:33] So that's where I was thinking yesterday about, um, how amazing is that there hasn't actually been a real blow up, like I think the year, which you, when you're in, uh, A situation like COVID and like not knowing what the business is going to be, or if the world's going to blow up or, you know, fucking turned to shit, which a lot of it has, uh, Melbourne seems to be all right.
But we went through that really hard point. It's interesting. Cause you look. When you're in it, you don't think about it, like after you've experienced it. And then looking back on it being like that's fucked most times to cope with anything you like, tell yourself a story that it's not that bad. And so even when you're pushing yourself to the edge, whether it be burnout, the story half the time is never actually how bad it is or how, you know, like it's, that's like the toxic fucking, um, Suppressing of your feelings is actually just the coping mechanism to get through it.
Josh Janssen: [00:05:37] Good job. They tell you that, like, I think that, like, I think that it was like, no, but I think that some people would say star Wars stoic or whatever, but it's like, okay, I'm going to, even if shit is, well, it's only stoic to a point because it's stoic to the point where you're not talking about the issue or how you're feeling, but then it ends up coming out in a.
Myriad of other ways. And so, um, yeah, I mean, this is the benefit part of it's like, um, uh, what, why are we doing this? Why are we finishing early? I think it's because it's like this, this podcast, everything that we're doing, I think like we've obviously spoken about the fact that the C's, you know, about the 10 years and about all of this stuff, and that is all still very much true and important.
And I think. But I think that the other thing is that. It like, it doesn't have to be easy all the time. It's not easy. We spent 80% of this year in the not easy bit of doing stuff, but then just because things aren't easy, there's different levels of pain. It's like, I mean, I've, I've, uh, I'm a cyclist now, so I can talk about this, but there's this pain that is actually like, Oh, I've just herniated a disc or I've broken a leg.
I should stop. Yeah. And then there's the growing pain. And I think that what we're just discovering is that through all of the work that we've done this year, we're at the point of, if we pull, pull too hard or push too hard, we end up actually hurting, hurting ourselves, which will then only affect the ability to turn up next year and have an awesome year.
Tommy Jackett: [00:07:23] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if, what, w what was this time last year? I mean, it was the same date. It was the seventh, 7th of December. Um, where were we then? That was like, we'd come back from Los Angeles. And we were still pushing through the shows and that was even tense and hard back then. And so it's interesting.
We've always like you can always shift your physiology by going into doing a show and then feeling good on the other side, but not necessarily. Everyone being in a great place. And so the tricky bit is it's not just you and I anymore. That's because then we can just manage our burnout or it's like, you push it and then you're done.
But then when there's more people involved,
Josh Janssen: [00:08:08] it's like collective triggering. It's going. So it's like what? You, you see how us being burnt out then affects other people. And so I think that there's. There's that element too. Um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:08:22] I'm just, yeah, I'm, I'm glad we're through this year and, and it'd be better out the other side than it was going in for us, like, honestly.
And so that's for the show that's for all our relationships with everybody involved in the show, the community it's, um, It is like, I've said to a bunch of papers, like we've managed to grow our business, but I don't feel like I've left my house. And so you can grow with it. It feels like you are confined to space or like new, lots of learning, new thinking, which can feel like you're not progressing because it's like, everything's, you're having to take on so much new information, which doesn't necessarily in the moment feel like you're progressing because you're feeling like you're like, Oh fuck.
What's going on. And that was COVID for most of us. I mean, fuck so grateful in this country. Think about looking at America, dude. This, yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:09:17] Yeah. I do. I do think about like the, the gratitude for just being the lottery around, like where you're born.
Tommy Jackett: [00:09:26] I didn't choose it. Yeah. I didn't choose it. And so, um, I was just the strongest Berman.
I
Josh Janssen: [00:09:31] still am, you know, between me and my brothers.
Tommy Jackett: [00:09:34] I'm much stronger than you guys now. It's um, it's good. Now the two weeks before we fit, actually finish up for the year and that's going to go in a second.
Josh Janssen: [00:09:44] Yeah, yeah. Two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's a, you know, the client, like, I guess part of it is that, uh, when things.
Like I don't, I guess people don't, uh, think about this necessarily all of the time, but it's just when you are successful in the thing that you're trying to do, that doesn't mean that problems go away. If anything, you get more problems, but the problems outweigh the thing that you're working towards. And so if you think about like, there's there's, um, Much simpler ways of living.
Like, that's what I think about, right? Like it's like, so, so much of the stress. So, so much of the stress that we have is self self-imposed. And so there is the other version, which is, Oh, you could like remove all of that, but that, but I feel like what we're we're dealing with is we have this really strong purpose.
And I think that that's, what's, what's good is when you have a strong purpose, it feels like you can work through all of that stuff. Um, and I think like everything's a story, like for us, the story has just changed the story of like the, the start all we had was you and I, and all we could say was way going to do this thing.
We're going to keep, you know, and we've, I think. I've surprised myself in how consistent we've been, how we've shown up. And we've, we've almost like arrived at that place where it's like that, that story. That's been one part of the journey, but now there's the next story of like, Oh, how can we support our team more?
How can we build something that's going to last, you know, the next 10 years? And so that's going to require something else it's not using. It's like, we've been just hammering away using the same hammer. And we haven't yet had the moment of stopping and saying, Oh, like we've actually built out a toolbox.
We have all these other tools and all that sort of thing. Maybe we should do something else or maybe there's other things, or how do we even, uh, how do we, how do we reset? How can we look at what we're doing and say, okay, like let's make some changes.
Tommy Jackett: [00:12:04] Well, I mean, what a stories, a lot of the time, it's just either a belief or a version that.
Gives clarity to what you're doing. So, you know, like, and that's the problem with fucking anyone giving advice about what to do. And so if we told someone to do what we've done it most likely won't work. And that's where it's someone like Gary V's hustle, hustle, hustle, work. It's like that's such toxic information for us group of people.
Some that might work for,
Josh Janssen: [00:12:34] so some people need to work harder. Yeah. Some people need to be reflective somewhat like the idea of a darn overthink. Some people need to overthink. And so this like the, this prescriptive sort of advice around this is what you need to do. Hmm. Um, is different. And so the other thing too, is it's like there was a time where we thought that what the business was going to be was the daily talk show.
We thought that we were going to have a crew and a team that was just supporting this show would be creating original content around the daily talk show stuff. And then there was a shift. We worked out that like, Oh, that's actually not the best way for us to get to the freedom that we want. To be able to get to the freedom that we want.
We need to bring in other people, we need to support them. We need to do all of these other things. And so I think that what can happen is we can create a story at the start. It gets very sticky things change, but the story is so sticky that we can't actually pivot, like, I mean, a fucking hate that word, but like you can't in the moment realize that like, Oh, Hang on.
If I'm not where I like, if we've got all of this new information, why, why not actually change your mind? Why not? Uh, like the cars out there. Like, can we one day fix the sound in there? I'm sure. No one else heard it. I'm sure you didn't.
Tommy Jackett: [00:14:03] Um, so there's still, so for instance, a story is. Uh, told by an individual that other people either listen or it's to yourself.
Right. And so if the story you can be okay with being a different path to the one that you were telling, then that's as good as it needs to be. And so, because people just listened to what you're saying or they, and that's where you don't being influenced by, you know, so for us, if we were influenced by what some people might think, even friends of like.
Oh, you got to keep going. That's not considering the situation or actually living the story. And so you can shift it. You can make it exactly how you want to, to work it out. But I mean, for us, we needed to not, not do a show for years on end because we're a couple of battlers with no town.
Josh Janssen: [00:14:57] It is, but it's also the, it's that saying of like, uh, if you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.
And it's like, Um, yes, there is the surety of approach, which is what we've been executing on, which is show up every single day and you'll build and that's happening. But then there's also like we are at the, the tip of something greater that's happening. And so it's just, I think part of it too, is patterns.
Like, I think that we can all say, okay, I think because I'm so obvious in my approach or I'm like, it's, I think that most people, most people who listen to the show, the Gronk know what I'm like. Okay. I think it's pretty, pretty clear. And I think that all of those patterns, all of that, my thinking and how like all of this at the cyclical nature of everything.
So it's whether it's like the social media conversation or relationships and not having big groups, like all of them, these different things, uh, things that. Uh, patterns, which you need to work out. Okay. These patterns. So like, what are the patterns telling us? Like, what are we actually like if these things keep on happening?
And I guess drinking is like a good example. It's like, what do we get out of drinking? What are the, like what, what's the, um, Every time you drink what happens or every time you do this, what happens or hang on, like, this is the third or fourth or fifth friendship or relationship or whatever it is, interaction that has gone a certain way.
And so part of it is me realizing, Oh, hang on, like. These patterns whilst they might involve external forces can only be changed with my willingness to adapt and recognize it and then say, okay. So if these things are going to happen, if the stress is going to get too much, or if this is going to happen, it's like, what's like the version, like what can I do?
What's in my control to, to change that. And I think that, um, There's even the pattern, I guess, of like making big changes. So I like big changes, the appeal of changing that like changing this and having that moment is appealing. And so then I have to ask the question, why am I just going into the pattern, which is just like too much, put it to the side, or is this all listening and doing the thing that's going to be right.
For all of our, you know, mental health,
Tommy Jackett: [00:17:35] what do you, which one do you think it is?
Josh Janssen: [00:17:37] Well, I think that you have to, um, you have to think about why, like why, why are you doing it? And so I think for, for me, it feels like it's a, there's a gut instinct element to it as well.
Tommy Jackett: [00:17:51] Friday night,
Josh Janssen: [00:17:55] instinct is like super powerful.
And if we don't listen to our gut on things, Like, I think that sometimes even if we think that this is the case, so for instance, it's like, if I think that I'm going to burn out or it's not going to end well, Even if that's not the case, me thinking about that, I feel like it's more likely to happen because you're projecting it.
Right? Like you, you feeling the energy, if you're feeling for something to happen, if you're fucking waiting for the thing, the thing is like, just like the fucking, the secret. If you think about negative shit. Like if you think about like, like, uh, you know, w w w put the woo woo shit aside. Whatever you think about is way more likely to happen.
Right? Like, and so part of it is, uh, if we're thinking a certain way, we need to address it and think about, okay, like what does this, what does this mean? What is, what's a sign? Like, I think that
Tommy Jackett: [00:18:54] it's a weird one because you can. You can think that you're going to be sick and you're not, and not get sick, you can be worried about something or you can be in a state where you're thinking a certain way and then exercise.
And you're thinking the complete opposite by the end of it. I'm actually. And so there's a fine balance of at what point do you listen? And then yeah, it has to all make sense.
Josh Janssen: [00:19:16] So when do you, like, what's an example of when you've listened to signals that you've gotten feedback from yourself? Um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:24] I think it's, I think it's.
Definitely now going to Christmas, it all makes sense to take time off. That's what I'm, I'm all for it. Um, I think the harder one is when did I think something? When, when was I acting without listening to me thinking that I shouldn't have been doing
Josh Janssen: [00:19:42] drinking coffee, all of these things that you've decided to stop, you got a signal that told you there was a, there was a point in which you decided, Hey, I'm like, I need to change.
Yeah, definitely. And so for some people it's a really big, so some, sometimes it's the, it's the really like, and this is the whole thing. This is why big things we can't control what's happened in the past. But what we can control is like, okay, are we responding? How we're reacting? What are we learning? And so I think there's, that's an element of it.
When you get the signal, when you get the big thing, there's a version, which is like, Are you going to accept that as your reality, are you going to say, Oh, this is, this is my life. This is how I do it. There's a thing called it's called the crucible moment, which I remember my friend's side telling me about it, but it's like the big thing that happens in people's lives that radically changes everything.
And she was talking about like, uh, many protagonists that we love. That sort of hero's journey has like, they have an example of that crucible moment where it's like rock bottom. Things have to get worse before you can have the lens and the focus and the perspective to make the change
Tommy Jackett: [00:21:01] our relationships.
For sure. I think early days for me being in relationships or. Being with people. I'm like, I just know it shouldn't be, and then it's. And so, but you're not listening to it. And that's like thinking about all the things in life, where there is some not reward, but there's some benefit of being in the thing, even though you're thinking another thing, business relationship.
Um,
Josh Janssen: [00:21:28] and you like on the scale on this, on the scale, like I think that I'm pretty in tune. Like I think that part of it is like, I think that. My internal voice, whether a serves me or not is very loud. And I struggle to once these things are happening, like, or if I'm thinking something, I find it hard to, to shift out of that mindset.
If that makes sense as well.
Tommy Jackett: [00:21:54] I guess then there's the version of, like, you're saying the pattern thing. If the pattern is that you're shifting things based on it's a hard run. Cause it's like, you can also be wrong. You got, also can be wrong.
Josh Janssen: [00:22:06] Think about someone who's like been in a bunch of relationships and then you hear the same story from the like, Oh, I've met this person.
Like, she's actually the one, like, fuck the last bit. Like there's all these things where it's like, we do a really good job of tricking ourselves. Um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:22:23] But yeah, I think it it's, it's the advice that a lot of people give of like listen to your body. That's one way of it, like in relation to your health, or I guess, I guess it's a fuck.
How weird is the human existence? Like how you can feel like you think about anxiety is an emotion and the feeling that it can give you like visceral feeling. And what it means. And some people actually have anxiety and it not actually be real about the thing that they're going into. It might be a situation, their body's responding.
They probably really don't need to be responding like that. But there's something going on internally. Like even sometimes I feel funny. I'm just like, what the fuck? What am I like? It's like nerves.
Josh Janssen: [00:23:10] Well, I think that part of it, like one thing that I've recognized is like, The speed in which I go to any issue is very quick.
Like I don't. And I think that that's been the shift for me is like trying to give time, like, so if I feel something a certain way, like I think that most of the time, if it's a big issue, like you'll know about it straight away, I guess part of it is, but then I don't know if that's true, because I think that like part of the feedback you've given me previously is that I will.
Leia things. And so I'll, so then the heart,
Tommy Jackett: [00:23:46] because Amy and I, it's probably Amy and I, where I want to sort it out ASAP. Like if something's happening in the moment. Yeah. But she's needed time to think about it. Or, and so then it's like, everything's dialed back or all
Josh Janssen: [00:23:59] emotions. Yeah. It's trying to work out.
So like everyone's processing everything completely different. Like I think that the. The most fucked up most basic thing that I'm only at 30, really getting my head around is everyone is living in their own reality with their own story. And so you can see, like everyone's saying something different, even though you can have the exact same experience.
Everyone is experiencing it. That is experiencing it differently. And so I think that's been the learning for me where it's like, when I'd come to someone and talk to them, I'm coming from the place of like, well, we all know what's going on here because we've all been around. Like, of course, like we're feeling this way because of this.
Or like, and people are like shocked or they're like, Oh no, what really. And so part of it is like that communications side of things, or just like when providing feedback or thinking or whatever it is is it's like, you have to come to the con, like you have to come to that communication with the idea here that.
Everyone else has no idea what's on in your mind, which is a fair thing to do, but it's very easy that when you're in a moment to be like, we are having a collective collective experience and that experience is it's like, we're all seeing everything the same way where it's like, so not the case.
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:28] Yeah.
Yeah. Well, um, the year has been, um, all sorts. It's been, I mean, We've done more shows in a year than we've ever done hundreds and hundreds. At the tour day, we did a couple of months, three months or
Josh Janssen: [00:25:46] something of
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:48] 12 shows a week. So five, twice a day, five days a week. And then the two weekend shows and we did all of those shows live.
Josh Janssen: [00:25:56] Yeah,
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:57] cause that's the, when we were in the room. And so there was a period of time where we didn't stop, which I think, I mean, how many people got around that? Like people were watching and it was like a part of that little mission that we were on, that they were part of.
Josh Janssen: [00:26:11] I think the other thing too is it's like, so during that time, I think that there's been a shift too.
So when we started, it was about serving. The grumps, which is still is about serving the grounds. But the other thing too was it's like, as we've built a business, all of a sudden you have like that element too. So it's not, you're not just thinking about the listeners, but you're also thinking about like, how's everyone else going.
And I feel like that's a, um, that's a challenge for me going. For what I think. And that's a bit of like, sort of reconciling I need to do, which is how do you, how can you have a big team and like, how do you bring empathy whilst it not sort of taking an emotional toll? And I think that that's like a challenge.
When you have a team, you want to make sure that everyone's doing okay. You want to make sure that like, you're listening to everyone and just like. Like, I can't have too many, but I've got enough fucking in my head that like those other voices I find taxing. And so I think that's why over the years it was like, like I'm excited to not fucking say anyone over Christmas.
Tommy Jackett: [00:27:29] Well, I'll be out of state so
Josh Janssen: [00:27:31] I could. Yeah. But like, I think there's a, um, yeah, there's an element of like the signal to noise thing where it's like, some people like, just like multitasking or whatever, if you're hearing all of these different voices. Yeah. It can get a lot.
Tommy Jackett: [00:27:46] Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's been a weird year.
It's been great in so many ways and I'm very, very thankful for everyone who's listened.
Josh Janssen: [00:27:56] Yeah. Yeah. And grateful. We've got this platform because I think that this platform allows us to do the thing that we want to do, which is create to serve people. So like, I think that that's been a hard thing, which is like, okay, We wanted to, obviously the story that we told is that we need to be there for groks over Christmas and new year's and all that sort of thing.
I mean, we've done a lot of shows. Hopefully you can go back into the back catalog. You can't line one Christmas last year, but a throwback stuff. But I think that it doesn't have to, like, I think that that story. Is, it's like it's a little bit not to be too wonky, but it's like a little bit, like you've got to put on your mask before you help the other people.
And I think that sorting out other people can be really enticing and sorting out. Other people can mean that you don't deal with you. I think that that's like for us or for me anyway, I'm like, Ugh. Everyone else aside. I think like, maybe I'm just projecting. I think everyone's burnt out, but I'm just going to say, like, this is me, like I'm feeling it.
Maybe other people are feeling it, so yeah, January 16. Yep.
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:09] Yeah, you can put that one in the calendar cause it's in the future. Uh, and that is our third year anniversary starting to shop birthday, birthday. Um, yeah, it'll all happening. Oh, thanks to a GB. Grace saves that team, Jess, who has it, wasn't involved at the start of the year
Josh Janssen: [00:29:30] is involved in that.
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:32] And then GB wasn't involved. And then, you know, look at all the names. It's five by the end of the year. And then, um, everyone who's been listening, watching on YouTube
Josh Janssen: [00:29:44] and Amy, obviously
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:46] Amy
Josh Janssen: [00:29:46] putting up with our shit,
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:47] holding down the Fort beat, shout out to Bodie. Uh, he's been, you know,
Josh Janssen: [00:29:51] she King. Yay. Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:54] Bringing the stories, bringing the content and the time that you don't have much, you know, she'll get one,
Josh Janssen: [00:30:00] a kid or that's all good
Tommy Jackett: [00:30:03] content there, but, um, we love you.
Josh Janssen: [00:30:06] We love everyone. Love you, cranks. All right. It's the daily talk show. We'll see you in 2021. Have a great Christmas new year's and uh, we'll see you next year.
See you guys
Tommy Jackett: [00:30:16] love you.