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It's a daily Talk Show Episode 509 and we're in Los Angeles and we got our buddy Matt D Avella. Back on the show. So happy to be back here. Why do some people say Los Angeles?

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If you're Australia, and you might say,

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Australia, Los Angeles, what? I think it's a less you said Los Angeles. He's not sure. Okay. So Los Angeles, los Yeah. Los Angeles. Well, thanks for having us. Yeah, yeah. Well, thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. Well, taking it away. I mean, there's a lot of people from your page now on our live feed. We're climbing yet and welcome Brad, your social media.

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Brad, I've got a whole network of people who helped me build my whole brand. And everybody's name is Brett Brad. And I've stuffed up twice today. I watched you get a large coffee. And so I got a large coffee. Yeah. And the only problem was, you didn't. You didn't drink it. Oh, I smell

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It within five minutes. Yeah. And then I was buzzing and then you offered to make a coffee. And I've now had a strong one. You go through the coffee quick. I like to pace it out. Yeah, I mean, I think maybe I actually just drink coffee slower. Yeah. And I don't mind if it gets cold. So I'll kind of sip on coffee from literally the morning until like 2pm and one coffee. That one. So it's called so so that's fine, though. But like, yeah, cold brew is a thing. What about just room temperature? This is something different between those two things. Eating room tap it or like the transition? It's because it has made a change. Yeah, well, yeah, there's something gross about that. I mean, you a cold pizza eating guy a cold pizza, local pizza more than hot pizza. I will tell you though, if pizza goes from hot to room temperature, not as enjoyable.

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Do you do Uber rates or Postmates or any of those things?

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Not really. We used to do it a lot more in New York. used to do it a lot more when we lived in West Hollywood. But lately not as much. We bet we do like the boxes that will get it like a box of

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Food and then we like to cook it ourselves.

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I don't feel like I have been not revealing any secrets, but I'm surprised today. You had a burger with us. It's a donut. You breaking your diet for us is ruining my brand.

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We're doing right now. I made you sign an NDA for a reason. No, I mean, I'm pretty lacks with my diet, especially when I'm hanging out with friends when we go out to eat, and just just you know, the late lows. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, these guys clearly don't care about their health.

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No, but I usually like if we're going out to eat for lunch or dinner. I don't eat out a lot. And most of the time I would say 80% of my diet. It's pretty consistent. I eat from home 80% of the time, so it's pretty healthy. But then if I'm going out to eat like two to three times a week, I will let myself go completely. So yeah, last time we had you I think was officially on the show what hundreds and hundreds of episodes

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Got It's been a while and what I like to always say the pillar of way we've got you at your subscriber count because when we first met you, it was a couple of hundred thousand. We had met you you had fucking no one. That's true and then you had that was 1000 I met you a month before I started my YouTube channel one yeah, I didn't have one I think I actually made a video while I was in Sydney that I actually uploaded you could see it's probably one of the third or fourth videos on my channel and that was like I've probably recorded that around the time that I met Have you made any private any of your videos that you had made that a to cringe? I haven't made any videos private. Like I've thought about going back and deleting some that are like that are just not helpful at all. Because like there's for my channel there's a lot of excerpts, but like I I would just say if it was crazy, like the I find them mostly to be cringing early on. I find stuff to be cringing even looking back like two years ago or even a year ago. But I told you about our episode that we do now.

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No, no.

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What makes you cringe? Well like the previous stuff, there's certain things that you like. I think in the beginning I thought that I could just like riff and just freestyle and just be like I got this I you know, I'm super I'm wicked smart. And I turned the camera on not even having an idea of the topic I was going to talk about.

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This is a plan for failure for me at least. There's some people that can do that. And they're really good at describing I show.

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Different riffing is different than one person talking. And so the biggest change other than the millions of subscribers you rot every video yeah, so you do you rip it all up area, the stuff we watching you ad libbing, yeah, I riff quite a bit. But I would say like there is a solid structure. And I like basically how I write I write in my own voice. So like everything that I'm writing, I'm kind of imagining as I would say, and then I'll kind of split it up between I think disappeared, probably BB roll. This is something I might say on camera but

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Then I leave room there to improvise in the moment and be like, okay, I want to talk about this. Like that's how you get a cohesive story structure that I didn't have before. And I think that probably led most to my success is just being really thoughtful and kind of thinking visually How do I want to put this thing together? You told us today we're talking about you. We were making a video and you were talking about a compliment you got about your style. Tell us tell us more about the slow the Jesse driftwood. He's a great YouTuber, and I just watched I was watching one of his videos and then he happened to mention me which was super weird. Like just caught me off. Where were you when you're watching it just on the toilet? No.

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No, I was actually just right here in my office and I just know it wasn't but it is like just like it is kind of like somebody watching me right now. Like, it was a super weird experience to kind of see that and but he basically was talking about how a lot of my shots are

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Steady, like it's just on a tripod completely, still no movement at all. And he said that he just really liked that about my style. And the truth is I want I do I tend to like that I like still shots. But a major reason why they came to be was because I shoot and film all my videos by myself actually don't have a team that does all this stuff and makes all my videos. So I needed to, you know, like I can't obviously move the camera while I'm in the shot and the frame. And I think a lot of times people might see my style video and think that like it was intentionally done a lot of times it's done because of the constraints that I had while driving through the streets on the way here and I just had this vision of you because there's some walking shots which I'm sure you've done by yourself. And I and I just had this vision of you sitting up a camera and then walking back and forth and

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it looks amazing, but I just always understand the realities of it. But in terms of the style, so someone's I didn't Jesse's going on. I love that.

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style

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a lot in the early days of anyone's filmmaking career, you're encouraged to find your style. What do you think that means now that someone has identified you having a style? What's your sort of take on style? Yeah. And like, it's interesting because like, I think that I don't, I didn't really think about creating a style Originally, I didn't know that I was developing something that was uniquely mine. I kind of like so there are a lot of lot of different ways in which my style was created. Like one like the static steady shots is just because I didn't have anybody moved the camera. Also, like the addition of a lot of voiceover, is because I I'm not amazing on camera, like people might think I'm good on camera, but that's just because they're seeing the best cuts. Did you take a script, try and do as much as you can, as a talking head and then clean it up with VR. I know it's generally kind of plant pre planning.

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ahead of time, and I know what the audio is going to be. It depends what kind of video it is, if it's a 30 day challenge, it's oftentimes me going throughout that 30 days filming different moments and different challenges that I have throughout it. You know, I always have a camera close by so I can pick it up and be like, you know, I just had a really tough time with this intermittent fasting, it was, uh, you know, I just had a really shitty day and blah, blah, blah, I can go on from that. But then you know, otherwise, and I'll kind of take a couple of days and that month to shoot a ton of beer or like really cinematic, beautiful stuff, and then write a lot about my experience, what I'm going through how it's going, and then I'll start to figure out and put together that story of like, you know, oftentimes, if it's a topic like intermittent fasting, I want to delve into the science and the history of intermittent fasting, what it is why people find it interesting, find certain clips to help complement that. And the story kind of starts to evolve from there. It evolves from the research of the books of my own experience. And then but I would say like, hands down, one of the biggest skills that I've learned

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That has helped me the most is definitely writing and planning. And I think that's one thing that people just underestimate. They don't put time into I didn't put time into originally. But then when I started to realize, like, I just want to make the best video possible, and a lot of times it takes planning. Did you think you were good, Radha, did you have any preconceived ideas of what your skill level was? I think I've always been pretty decent. I once had a creative writing teacher in college like, this is kind of creepy, but like, I submitted what I thought was a really good piece of writing. And then he wrote on the top, he said, Matt, this was fabulous. Meet me after class for a special project. special project was in quotes. And this guy was kind of like an older man. I don't know like, I got I got interesting vibes from him. I did not I did on special. I did I know I got skittish. Yeah, I was seeing somebody at the time. So

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on the on the writing thing, are you are you spending it

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Are you taking your morning pages or something? and using that? Or is it this is specifically writing for a video and I write for a video I sit down and write for a specific video. And I think that comes from like doing 110 minute video every week. And I think my particular style and this could be from like how I enjoy consuming content, but I generally there's a lot of movement, a lot of different shots. There's a lot of like, very rarely Will I be on camera for more than 30 seconds. And that requires, like lots of B roll to be shy, like really thoughtful planned out like it doesn't happen by accident. So what's the rule if you were to create a list of rules the Mandela filmmaking rules? What would they be specifically on your style? Okay, specifically on my style, I think rule number one, don't be lazy. And I think that's something that most filmmakers can relate to. It's what's something to be lazy. What How would that translate like if you got enough shots, I got it.

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You know what I mean? Like, where you might just grab a couple shots, two to three clips or four clips of the role, but if you're not being lazy, you're taking your time to set up like 20 shots 30 shots and be really thoughtful with each of them make sure the exposure is right you could do a quick you can do it hastily or you can take your time with it and like haha with guests like I guess if you're using other talent, the idea of being like, Hey, can you walk that same street again? People are fine with it. That's one thing I think that a lot of people don't realize about filmmaking in general is that you do have like, especially when you're shooting a documentary like when I shot minimalism I wasn't just run it I wouldn't like run really fast set up the camera hope that the framing was right and then like have them just happen to walk by the frame in a perfect way. Like you just big Alright guys, just wait right there. Hold on us out the camera rolling. Okay, go ahead, walk like they were actually walking and going somewhere, but I told them to stop and wait. I think that's partly the nature of being an independent filmmaker. Being somebody by yourself. Like

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You have to kind of, if you want the good shots and you want it to look really good, then I don't think that there's anything unrealistic. So don't be lazy. Don't be lazy. Don't be lazy. Plan ahead, plan ahead. So in basically taking your course we're going to wrap this

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up. Welcome to the

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plus.

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So don't plan ahead, ahead. So like so we did, we're doing a video for my channel and we did an interview today. And what I did was, I didn't totally know where the video is going to go. But I had an idea so I just started writing and kind of fleshing out and I an idea of where this thing could go. And then it's on the cutting room floor. Yeah, exactly. guarantees guys had a freak lighter and halfway

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through my computer in the garbage, but then like I planned out 1015 questions for the interview we'd have. I also thought of like some kind of clever ways to and I can only do that

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This one like it's people that I know and I'm friends with, it's much harder to bring strangers in. Like you can do it, but to have them do bits and sketches, like you guys know that we just filmed a couple of little bits that are supposed to be punches of humor. We're kind of breaking the law. You guys did great. You did really good. Yeah, I know. You don't do a lot of acting.

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make us look good. Yeah, that was Yeah, it was like yeah, the whole idea was like I'm talking shit on them from the voiceover and then they're on camera and they hear me talk shit on that I love when that get you because you get that doing a few of those things. And they're always right. Yes, that is like, again that's what's fun about like having her around. That's the only thing that's fun about having

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Yeah, well it's like if my videos are always just by myself it'd be a little bit boring but it's like she's legitimately all she does is like sketches usually happens in the moment and OZ that move to LA not to become an actor, but then axion hurt. Yeah, I was with lots of people, her friends over to their like

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man like you must love this because they think that she's like all about center of attention. And she, she's telling me like I gotta plan three weeks ahead of time. It's a it's a nightmare getting scripts two weeks out. Planning ahead. What's another one? So yeah, don't be lazy planning ahead.

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overshoot I think that goes along with Don't be lazy, but definitely and it's like not what you would think a minimalist would say. But I always add this might be a better one think like an editor. So if you if you've never done all aspects of it if you haven't done the filming and the editing and like maybe even the writing and the planning, you don't know. It's it's easy to get very frustrated and it's easy to not get everything you absolutely need. So being doing everything myself all these years, the only person I could get mad at when I was editing was myself. I'm like I did not hold that shot. I was zooming in and out and moving and I didn't have a damn moment to pause. And that's the

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I think the biggest mistake that filmmakers make early on is just not holding their shots not thinking through their shots enough not getting enough variety because especially if you're making a 10 minute video you need tons of variety to make a video and a film interesting. How do you add variety

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just different angles. I'd more so think of variety now in my videos from video to video, and it's

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actually different t shirts. wardrobe changes Yeah, definitely. They are they are very different. But yeah, like you know, I do think through like how my videos are pays. Does this video start out on camera? Does the next video start out with nothing but b roll? Is the music similar? Does it fit the tone? And I try to make some variety even between videos. But I think just getting a ton of different unique angles. Creativity, I think is looking at the same problem in a different way trying to like you could look at some of the best videos or the biggest videos I've done I should say like a day in the life of a minimalist or even any idea

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Talking about minimalism. These are ideas that have been done ad nauseum. Everybody's talked about it, but I'm like, Can I do it in a slightly different way. And a day in the life of a minimalist started out with like a parody. So it was me making fun of like, the stereotypical minimalist that doesn't have anything in his apartment at all. And it's like, super pretentious. And that was a way for me to kind of flip the script and and be creative with it versus just telling the story straight and straightforward. Ryan, Nicodemus, one, and I didn't realize it took me longer to realize that it was a joke, he never broke character.

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You're gonna have a lot of people that are gonna be like, What the?

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What about time constraints? time constraints are great. Yeah, I think that constraints and even like setting imposing deadlines on yourself, especially if you're an independent filmmaker is super important. Yeah, I think that for me the constraint of every week, it definitely makes me bust my ass to keep going.

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keep releasing, and not to kind of get too sentimental with each project. Have you worked at how many hours it takes to make a great video is a Have you worked at sort of a sweet spot, if I spend 15 hours, I just started kind of tracking my hours in my day and seeing how long it takes me to make each video. There's definitely not a sweet spot because some videos I can shoot an edit pretty quick, like within a couple of days. And some might take like a full week to edit this time equate to quality. So if you are spending a lot more time on what's interesting about that is that to a certain degree, I think yes, I think that there needs to be like, if you're only spending two hours on your video, there's only so good that it could possibly be. Especially if it's 10 minutes. I mean, like maybe you can make an interesting 32nd video in two hours. But still, I think it takes quite a bit of time, then I think you have the diminishing returns after maybe 40 hours, depending on how long the video is in terms of like film like I might spend 16 hours

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hours, or 12 to 16 hours shooting a video. And then two days editing like one day doing the main bulk edit the second day touching up and then polishing and finishing it all up. It feels like you don't rush. Like what I liked about the experience today was we got a bunch done, but it seemed like you were taking your time and setting things up properly. Is that a filter that you're constantly sort of using? How so like the Why does the setting up the game? There isn't the sort of frantic nature that I could come for doing that type of shoot running back and forth. Is that something that's being learned or something it's even deliberate? Yeah, I think having been a filmmaker for you know, 10 to 12 years it's like you you're just so confident in your abilities to deliver that I don't get too stressed or nervous. I mean, like say today, right? You guys help me set up but like still we have to associate Yeah, yeah.

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Well, talking about how hard it would be like back in the day when you were doing that on your own right lucky intent and like I still do it sometimes by myself, right? Where you're setting up three cameras, you have to set up main audio backup audio, you have to set up the light, you have to then monitor the audio monitor three cameras and and conduct the interview all at the same time. Like with say, you had Ryan Holiday here? Are you having help at that time that shoot I did. My friend Conrad came and help out for that shoot, which is great. I mean, he it kind of takes a bit of a weight off your minds and you have to worry about like is that audio coming through? Because obviously if you're not doing a podcast, you don't have headphones on you can't tell. And but like for many, many of the videos in the past, it's been just me setting it up. It takes a lot more tweaking takes up like a lot of patience, I think. Add that to the list like patience is so important because i mean i

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Love filmmaking and I love being a part of the process I love like going on a vacation and like shooting travel videos for fun. Like Natalie, no patience for it. And also like, if I'm like going out with her, then I feel bad. And I'm like, well, she just wants to go on a hike and I'm stopping every five minutes to shoot video. And I'm like, you have to have that patients to be able to get an amazing shot and to like, you know, know that it's going to I mean, I could be shooting all day. I think loving is super important to us. Absolutely. Is there anything from I think I asked you this last time at 500,000 subs. Now you're at 2 million something.

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How many two point? I think it's actually yeah, just checked it said 2,060,000. Yeah.

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Yeah, also I we had agreed that you guys would mention that right when we started the podcast. We're a little bit upset about

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he made me hang up the new 2 million

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whiteboard marker and he just updated with

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how many subs Am I got? What has anything changed from 500 to 2 million? Yeah, 1 million is when you finally find happiness. Yeah, no, I like I said then and as I've always said, and maybe this is a product of me having gone through this being a little bit older, but I think like there are a lot of people that would be mature about it when they were younger.

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There's no feeling of having that there's maybe a feeling like when you look at somebody who has a big following you almost like you project this sense of feeling you're like, this is probably how they feel somebody who has a million dollars, somebody who has a really nice house or car, they don't have to worry about anything. You make a whole lot of assumptions about that person. Yeah, and that's absolutely not true. Like it's literally just a number on a screen. It does like obviously, there's more to it. There's more to the story, like having a large audience.

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allows me to make videos and allows me to do some really cool things. But it's it. It's not that important them the number is not important to me at all. Like for me, personally, I just want to be able to make films and do that full time. And whether it's 50,000 or 100,000. Like I can tell you I would certainly be content if I had 50,000 subscribers right now, is there an illusion in terms of making money? Like I could imagine a bunch of creative thinking, I can't do x film until I start making money doing the thing I'm doing? Well, I have this rule

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called the three year old like we were talking about this today. And this is kind of largely what our video is going to be about is looking at the long term and not getting so caught up in the short term feedback. So like, Don't get caught up with like all I mean, first of all, like you have to pay your bills, you have to have a way to make money. I think if you were going to jump into doing YouTube

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You should at the very least have some runway to play with, or else you're probably going to fail. I like to take risks, but I want the risks to be super calculated. So yeah, like, for me, I wasn't personally worried about making money right away because I had some runway I knew I had time to explore and I knew it would take a really long time. So I was like, I'm going to dedicate myself to this thing for two years. And then if it doesn't work by then I'm not going to quit but I will at that moment step back and say Hey, is this really working? Talk with Natalie see if like she's okay with me doing it for longer and seeing if there's even a glimmer of hope right? Like if you do something for two to two to three years, you should see some progress. If you haven't seen some progress if you haven't seen like your skills improve significantly, some opportunities come your way. Maybe like a few subscribers whatever it is, then maybe it's you're in the wrong infield. Some metric has to change. Yeah.

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Yo fast or slow the progress that you've experienced when it wasn't growing for the first. You know, I forget I really gotta double check how long I was

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actual chart.

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So you were so when I first met you you were still in Brooklyn. I think the the time you must have you were you even started the podcast that you had to set up, right? Yeah, yeah. I had a podcast set up there. I think the first 20 episodes were done in Brooklyn. And when I did that, were you planning to go to Los Angeles? No, no, that that happened. And then we had like, maybe a month where I mean, we made the decision very flippantly

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about the specific time Yeah, cuz Matt said, she said, I was like, should we move to New Jersey? Like maybe we should just get like settle down and find a nice house in Jersey. And she said, I didn't move halfway around the world to live in New Jersey.

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Classic OZ. Yeah.

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I hope my mom isn't watching this. So she did want to live in New Jersey, which is fine. And obviously it gets super cold in the winters. And then we started talking about la my sister lives in LA, I've got to say like Sydney. So you were saying change your thinking change at the time. Why? Why was that? Why did you want to leave New York? It was more so like for our future we were talking about we were, we got what we wanted out of New York, and we were ready to move. We were both there. I mean, I was there for about five plus years. She was there for like maybe two or three years. And we just were looking to settle down and find a new place to call home and then potentially settle down with for the long term. And LA is in between Sydney and New York. So does New York. Does it force you to to only think short term like is there people in New York or creators that are thinking 10 years ahead, or is that harder today? I'm 10 years ahead is tough. I think you guys are unique in the

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Thinking that long term, because so much can change on that time could all be dead compliment. Oh,

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yeah. So did you find moving from New York to Los Angeles? What was the mind shift that happened when you when you moved? Um, I would say not a whole lot. I mean, it was it was nice being in LA. I mean, I, we certainly like the change of weather. But I think in terms of my mindset and what I was doing as a creator, nothing really changed all that much. I was still kind of dedicated to kind of executing on my long term vision, if we look at your graph of your subscriber is not real. But if you could imagine it going up, what's your mental health graph look like? into in reflection of your maybe in response to the growth of your channel? Yeah, I would say well, even like one thing that we had gotten started on talking about was that like, even leading up to the moment where

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Like I finally started to grow and like finally it was like probably a year and three months which was like amazing but during that time just so much doubt like year and a half a year and a half or a year and three months were just nobody is paying attention to what you're making. And I like remember talking to my sister and it may sound kind of like, like ego driven but it's it's not it's like I was confident I was like I'm making like I'm really good stuff and I'm like pretty sure this this is like valuable content and it's like very high quality, especially the podcast stuff I was a sound more angry when you

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at that point I was actually throwing dishes across

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and I was like, I feel like I'm making really really great stuff and it's just so frustrating that like nothing is working and I've been doing this for like a year and three months and I'm not seeing any kind of growth. Two weeks later is like when I had my first video just like take off what did your sister say when you talk talking? She laughed and she's a she's a at all right. Like she was like kind of as if I mean she she understood where I was coming from but she

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made a joke about me like having a huge ego. For sure. I think it like it is interesting. Because even when you're close to getting to what you want, it feels like that's the moment where stuff gets even the hardest even feels like the week before our 500th episode. It's those like walks home where you're like, What the fuck are we doing? Right, which is it seems like the craziest thing It feels like it's the moment of celebration, but it feels like the milestones can also force the reflection, which could go either way. Kinda like to like you hear about people who get lost in the woods, and then they end up giving up when they're like right at the edge of the forest. Like a city, right? Yeah, exactly.

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It's like you like you gave up because you didn't know that if you just went an extra 50 yards or what 10 meters.

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feel like you've got too far in Is there a point of getting too far in where you can't

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Oh, you just you might as well keep going. I think you might as well keep, you know, it's this the whole idea of like the dip, right? Where you have to know there's no guarantee and there's no guarantee that anybody would make it and I think like if I personally, like I could only go for so long, not making money making YouTube videos before Natalie's like, Hey, you know we got we gotta get how long was that?

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I don't know. She told me she like confided in me that because I always talk about like, she's the one that convinced me early on she like you got like, just do it. I was like, I really nervous. I should start a podcast I want to but I was just nervous about what people would say. You just got to do it. Just get started. What do you think? And then, I mean, what people were gonna say, you just I don't know. You're just having a whole lot of doubt. I think you're mostly thinking of like your close friends circles and it makes you say mass trying to make a fucking podcast and What a loser.

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Right? Because you think you're faking it right? You like it? Because I think in the beginning you are you've never done a podcast. You never made it.

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Cuz I bought a bunch of new mics and then I tried to make it like, bro. Yeah. But then Nat. NAT was like, she said that she's like, go ahead. No, she said, Go ahead, just do it. Right, just get started. And then I didn't know but she would go into work every day and be like, I have no idea what he's doing.

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podcasts I don't understand, like, how is he possibly going to make a living doing this? But to her credit, she lied to my face throughout that whole process. And just like said, you know, like she she did believe in me, like she knew that. I mean, I made a documentary. There was other stuff that I did that worked out that she she kind of knew like, it may not work out, but I know that he has to do this and he'll regret it if he doesn't. And so you moved here recently, only a few months ago, the week that you're moving in. You're struggling to breathe. You're having all these fucking weird issues. You think that you've got allergies in the house? What was it? What was that timeline? Yeah, that was Yeah, that was a fun time. It was a lot of anxiety.

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charcoal paint. Charcoal baby. Yeah, exactly. I shouldn't have painted it.

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That mean just, it's something I've never experienced before. Certainly, what I ended up finding out was a lot of anxiety. I was diagnosed by a doctor because like, she was suspicious when I came in, and I was like, I think I have anxiety, like generalized anxiety disorder. So what you want to meds or something like what's the ones that everyone goes? Xanax on it? Yes. It's the one that like, it really gets you real fucking focused on Ritalin? Ritalin or Adderall? Yeah, that's the opposite. That's it. That's it. That's right. People who don't have focus now are so anxious. But like, imagine how many videos you could do. Yeah, I've had taken Adderall before. And it's Yeah, it's crazy. And it's like, you get so dependent so quick. It's just not it's not for it. So you went to the doctor, what was I skeptical of? I she is just, I think a very inquisitive and like she's asked a lot of questions, especially when a patient comes in and says, I think I know what's wrong with me, right. Like, she just wants to make the right yeah, so she wants to just make sure and then she's just kind of checking me out and doing

32:00
The whole tests and everything going through. I think you have a sinus infection that could be coming from that. And then she's like checking my ankles. And she's like, She's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you definitely have anxiety. ankles are sweating. And like, she just noticed my socks, right? So I was in a room and like, I was feeling anxiety in that room. Like, it doesn't happen all the time. But in that moment, I just felt like also she had an assistant there. And the truth is that I was like, Am I gonna have to like pull my pants down? front of this lady, right? Because like, when you go to doctors, a lot of times they like, I've got anxiety. Let's see.

32:34
Let's see your day.

32:38
Yeah,

32:40
that's a long story.

32:46
She says you definitely got anxiety. Then what's the next step? Well, she said definitely I have anxiety. She said like if you want I can prescribe you some some medication for it, but like, I truly didn't think

33:00
It was that bad it had it was pretty bad at one point but this was a couple months after I'd been and maybe a month or so after I had had it. And so what sort of thing not panic

33:11
I wouldn't say panic attacks, maybe anxiety attacks like maybe like definitely like very intense

33:17
overwhelm like i'd legit have to just lie down on the ground when shopping for a moving house is fucking stressful as it is to a thing that's going on some change I think so because we had three weeks or travel I think two is that as well as that like I was very focused on work at the time and they just completely removed me from my work for three weeks for a lot of people that might seem like a great thing but especially when you're completely absorbed into your work it can be tough to take breaks for that long and then the longer you're away the more anxious you get a be like oh my god I got to come back to this and and like you don't really feel as motivated anymore. You get to restart everything. But then right when we came back two days after we got back we had to move apartments, and then I had to get the studio setups and I'm anxious about like getting

34:00
furniture and get everything set up in this place. And then I think it was also like, Did we make a mistake and moving into this apartment? Is this like the apartment had just been refurbished? So I thought that you could smell some kind of chemical in the apartment and I was like, Am I allergic to the apartment? Because right when I walked in, I felt dizzy. I felt like I was losing my footing, like very real physical symptoms and symptoms in a way that you're like, this is not anxiety. We've had my to have had that who haven't been able to fucking leave it bit like new apartment. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, like so I'm like, is this a real? Is this something that's all my head. And then when it kind of went away the next day, and like, back and forth, it was like a battle for the first couple weeks. Like you, you you the mind blowing thing was to think oh, my God, all this is just happening in my head. And then you're like, Am I losing my mind like this is all in my head. The fact that your mind can do that. So how do you deal with it from a relationship point of view? Like if you're sort of flipping out? Do you just do have the awareness to

35:00
Hi not like, I'm not feeling good. So I'm going to be like same stress to the moment or like how do you deal with it? Yeah, I think that there probably can be a tendency to feel a bit of shame around it and feel like you're it's a weakness and not want to bring it up to your partner and not want to talk about it. And like, and certainly, I personally don't want to talk about it every single time that I get it like one I don't think it helps all the time. And I think it would be annoying if literally every time I felt a little bit anxious, I told her identity like it becomes part of your identity right now you believe it more the story you tell yourself is that I'm this person with anxiety. But I will say that obviously early on having conversations with not talking about my anxiety just be like letting her know I this is how I feel, helped me out a lot. It helped me to relax. She helped to reassure me that she was there and that like, you know, she's like I you know, I truly don't think you're allergic to the apartment. I think that this is anxiety but you know, we can go to you should go to a doctor and then we'll get it

36:00
checked out. And so she was super supportive. And I think having this party partner is essential and so nice. Was this something that you think you had or you experienced earlier on?

36:11
Or just

36:13
it's funny. I mean, I really don't think like, it's related to my subscriber count, but what the whiteboard says.

36:22
Yeah. But I would say like, I never experienced anxiety like that. Yeah. So who knows? Maybe it did have something to do. But a version like you said, I don't bring it up every time I experience it.

36:35
Yeah, when you have $90,000 worth of debt, no student loan and now and not that I can remember not like that. That's just normal in America, isn't it? Yeah, that's normal. par for the course. But yeah, no, I definitely don't think that I felt to it. I didn't feel very anxious. early on. I think it's like something. It probably developed largely from like dating anxieties and I had a stint of five years where I didn't go on any dates. I didn't go out and meet

37:00
Anybody, and then that built up to be like, really intense social anxiety, which was I think the first time I really felt it where I'm like, holy shit, like I'm like shaking in the shower right now, about this day I'm gonna go on and like an hour and I'm like, there's no way you're going to go out and like have a coffee with somebody, you're not going to war.

37:19
remember you telling me that and then you went no good. Yep. And then it was fine. And I felt invincible after it sounds silly. But it was like, I was like, and I think that's something that everybody can learn from is that if you push yourself to do these things that are uncomfortable, it's not as scary as you think. And then if you just keep exposing yourself to it over and over again, eventually it becomes so small and insignificant. Do you have mechanisms when you're at a party to sort of alleviate social anxiety? I don't get too socially anxious in in like parties and groups and stuff.

37:50
But I think it was mostly just a dating thing. I think it was just pressures put it on myself from a dating perspective. Can you tell us about this message

38:00
Yeah, so all right, the the other day, man, I had just got back from a little bit of a trip. And then I told her like, I want to get a massage. And she said, Oh, yeah, I'll find a place for you. And then she found a place. And I want to say,

38:16
I don't want to say the name of the place, but let's just say it was happy massage. It wasn't called happy with I smiling, smiling.

38:27
smiling. Yeah. So then I just, she said that and then so then I googled it. And I wrote in happy massage. She said, it's really great, highly reviewed 130 ratings, all like four and a half star. I'm like, this is perfect. So then I google it. And then I copy and paste the address in my phone. I see that it's four minutes away. After hand job.

38:50
Now it was a I was just looking for, I think just more like a sports massage deep tissue, just trying to like work out the kinks and what's a sports hand job. I was

39:00
Yeah, you're wearing a bicycle. Yeah, it's right next to the ER to go to the hospital afterwards. Yeah. And I so I, I go to this place and then I'm like I'm looking at the outside like this is a story of how everything is adding up in the wrong way and you still continue forward

39:18
so then I get to the place and I'm like I thought it was actually in this other part of town but I'm like all right, I guess this is it. And then I get to the front I'm like, this doesn't look like the photos that they had online and I'm pretty sure the name was a little bit different but it's it's got the same part of the name in it right? It was still like happy massage one or something. And then I walk in and then there's a lady at the counter and I was like, I'm tired for one hour and then didn't recognize her voice was like that's not the voice that I spoke to on the phone when I booked in the massage or whatever. And then she said come in the back and then I go in the back and then it's very brightly lit. It's hard to get a read on like a lot of these like affordable time is eyes places. They're all kind of they're all kind of like cheap and dingy and a little bit weird. Like

40:00
They're not they're not like high end right? And I wasn't. I'm not comfortable at like shopping malls. Right? I know when you're fully clothed with your face in the

40:09
middle but ones that have paid the least to be in the mall. You got to think like your Westfield's and stuff. I heard in Australia, there's a lot of those that are like, laundering money. I can see that anyway, I bring my bad style. Yeah. So then, so then next thing was

40:26
she, this is the big big indicator, where after this happened, I was like, remember everything. It was like Liam Neeson and taken it was like, remember every detail of this room because you're gonna have to tell this story later. And she asked me to pay up front. So that's ever happened to me in a massage. Did you have an issue? Yes. But of course I had I mean, credit card. Yeah, yeah. So she asked me to pay credit card up for credit and like that, that only happens with like fast food and happy endings. And like prostitutes, right happy endings.

41:00
Today, like yeah, you know, like ever watch a movie with prostitutes always make you pay up front, because the movies

41:09
in fake movies that aren't real that I've never experienced in my life, but you would pay up front because then after like the guy is finished, there's no shame in having to go you wouldn't like maybe just one pay like you've already given them the services but I'm not gonna get out of here. So she made me pay up front and that's what I'm trying to get suspicious. And then like all the clothes off, by the way, not thought that this was so weird and my sister was like, making fun of me like I go all clothes off and massage every message. I mean, when I asked them I say like clothes offer on like, do me keep my trunks on and then like whatever you're comfortable with. And I'm comfortable, naked, naked. Yeah. And if you do that, I mean,

41:49
I'm finding that I'm the only one that does that with chains.

41:54
Under underway, it depends. Yeah, I don't think I've ever done full node. not why I went to

42:00
The last message I had I hated it was like a bamboo massage. And they

42:05
I was like staying at this place over the weekend. Heaps of bread the day before. And this bamboo message is like a rolling pin. I felt like a piece of fucking dough that

42:18
was horrendous. So anyway, so you look down you fully, fully naked because that's the way I get massage and facing up or down. Definitely facing down to start but yeah, that's the thing right where I'm like normally it's like, like if you go to a nice place, it's usually a really thick blanket over top of you and then you just pull it on top and it literally covers your entire body up to like your neck. And then they would just kind of move it around depending on where they're massaging. But then she was it was like a handkerchief.

42:48
I was like this is wants to cover my whole body. And I mean really realistically was like a medium sized Wow, like that was just covering my butt. And then when she came in, she did this move. She like lifted up the towel and then

43:00
Put it back down. She just saw my buddy. She just saw my butt. And I'm like she's just way too comfortable with this thing. And like she again super brightly lit in the place. And then she starts like massaging me does like a normal massage. Couple other things that I'd like our signs is like, why is the brightly lit thing assign? Generally like a massage place will have dim lights, you know, bright lights is like you're at the doctor's office or somebody giving you

43:27
a hand job thing you want it to be bright. I don't know. I really don't I just think that it's like they weren't worth I think the thing is, they don't care about the mood. Right? They're all about youtility

43:36
massage. Yeah. So then, I think the next thing that I noticed, by the way would have mad, beautiful, beautiful lighting.

43:46
You have lights, you have somebody that comes in and gives a massage and then you have to finish her that comes

44:02
Yeah.

44:06
Okay, so then the next thing is that like, and this happens, right and sometimes in massages, but she's like massaging my back and her boobs keep like touching my head and like, like resting on my head. her thighs are touching my hands. What was she wearing? She was wearing like yoga pants. Okay, so that wasn't sus, because I know No, it wasn't. He wasn't wearing like sexy lingerie.

44:27
But then I suddenly she's kind of touching me in ways that like happens in massages, but it felt kind of intentional. She started then she, she massage my bare butt.

44:36
Like she would come down in the massage and then massage my butt a little bit, but that's not the first time that's happened. I've had like some Chinese massages in Brooklyn that would do the same thing and nobody ever offered.

44:48
Yeah,

44:50
that was another one too. She focused a lot of time on my butt, like rubbing my crotch into the ground and that was super bowl. And then it's like it's a meteor movement for sure. And then I was like,

45:00
This moment you like it, so it like, it's wrong, but it sort of feels like a

45:04
little bit. Yeah, yeah, I mean, cuz he's giving you a massage. And you're also like, this is like, it's getting kind of weird, but then I'm like, let's just see where it goes. And then then she ends up having me turn over and then when I turn over, she just lifts up the blanket. And she looks at the towel, and I'm like, okay, she just saw me I can, she just saw all of me. And then they put the towel back, she puts the towel back on me and she's just,

45:26
she doesn't move again. And I'm like, that's not appropriate. The move is like, you turn away, lift up and then they roll and then you put it down. And then she starts massaging like my legs and pretty much that that's it. They should just not as how's my legs. And then the one move that she did where this is when I was sure right? She grabbed my hand and she get completely stressful experience. You have no idea how I was feeling on the inside. I was so stressed out.

45:56
I was so stressed out like nervous, like legitimately nervous.

46:00
I'm like, What is going on? Like, my mouth is starting to sweat because I was just really excited about.

46:07
So then she grabs my hand and she throws it at her butt. And I'm like, wow, like she basically like, if like that she took and she went like that, like, threw it on my butt, or her butt. And then I just like to let gravity take over and I just let it drop down to the ground. I was like, What? And then to recommend to move Yeah, that's a move, right? It's to have me grab her butt. And then she did it twice. And so and the second time I said, No, thank you.

46:33
Thank you. And it's like, so like, you know, sign to life You touched about then she would know that it's all clear for the happy ending. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I think she was just trying to get a gauge. She didn't want to take that extra statue. She wanted to leave a tip. You pay up front, including tip I have no idea cuz I didn't. I didn't get a hand job.

46:52
Thank you. Is that going to be the name

46:58
of the session. Do you have

47:00
At that point when she's throwing hand how many minutes left here? Like is it supposed to be 30 minutes left to the massage ended early? But she ended early, early. Early.

47:13
Yeah, yeah. So that she she threw it and then I said No, thank you. And I just realized then that like, I when I'm being sexually assaulted, I'm incredibly polite.

47:23
No, thank you. No, thank you. I'm good. I'm okay. Because I felt bad right? I felt bad that I was like rejecting her in a weird way. All of a sudden it turns into that dating anxiety like yes comes out and what was the conversation with her when she wants it all she didn't speak very good English was a

47:39
mess has concluded like after the but things and I said No, thank you. Then she started talking about my muscles. And she's like, she's like all big and strong and big and strong and she's not wrong.

47:54
She's right, so

47:57
strong, and I'm like, that's weird, but like my doctor, actually

48:00
The same thing. We're saying, Wow, look at you while you're working up. And then I'm like, okay, I mean, it's I know you're in the same building.

48:08
Yeah, it's actually the same person.

48:11
So then yeah, so the love of the doctor was like, almost hitting on you with that was the same time I was anxious to and it was like with the other person in the room. It was like, touching my abs

48:23
out.

48:25
Los Angeles is nice. It only works women saying that to men for sure. Which any for obvious reasons. But there was someone watching there was the assistant. Yeah. And I was also thinking like, When is she gonna tell me to take off my pants? I'm just like, I'm super nervous as it is. Honestly, like this is my brother said it after I told him this whole experience. He's like every massage I've ever gotten. I've always thought they were gonna kill me.

48:48
I just went okay, when are they gonna do it? And of course, you gotta go for it. How does it actually happen to wonder about and how those things coming at it. I mean, I figured it out. firsthand and firsthand.

49:00
So they see, the next step is the final straw. She starts tickling me, which felt great.

49:08
It felt like really good, but then also equally uncomfortable and equally like okay, what did the fuck is happening right now she's tickling my stomach. And then I just and then she's like, she got within like a foot of my face today. Huh? Huh? And then I'm like, She's like, first time massage. And I'm like, Yeah, she's like, done. And I'm like, Yeah, and I think she thought at that moment that I already came.

49:32
Cuz she starts laughing and she's in the hallway.

49:37
And then she started she's in the hallway laughing

49:40
and then I'm like, I got up and I got my god dressed like, you know, just felt violated and then I legitimately had to like walk around the block. I had to walk it off. I was worried that someone was filming or like this was a setup or Yeah, me like

49:57
was it well lit is this

50:00
There's a cameras doing here and then so I walked around the block and then I got on the phone and I called Nat and she was just dying laughing as I told the whole story and then we ended up finding out that when I googled the name like Google automatically pops up the the basic they think you're talking about and it was the wrong place and I didn't know it so I copied and pasted the wrong spot because that's why in my head I'm like, they have 130 good reviews like did they just take all these reviews? Turns out it was

50:27
Yeah, that was my first time Yeah, massage place last I hope so. Yeah. So stressful. Yeah, I wonder if it's if from the outside how you can tell. You can tell Was there any troubles with it? Yeah, like not Yeah, I guess like there were some red lights but like you could tell it was super hole in the wall like I've been to some like Thai places and they like they don't look that suspicious. You think shitty ones. But it was

50:54
happy endings? I think so the reviews point to Happy Endings at the actual place. It did. Yeah. Like a bloody

51:00
When I because I didn't look at the actual place I was looking at the wrong place was viewed favorably or not so so people like mixed reviews, somebody because some people said like, this is not a massage place they do things that I can't even speak.

51:12
But I'm like, but I went with it but I'm like, What if that and I went in together with like, what would they do is it is so cool my god the one of the funniest parts about it was like that I heard at least from my it's probably not as funny to retell it, but my experience of being in it, some, like the bell rings and somebody walks in, like 30 minutes in right. And then she lets him into a room and she's like, it's a bro like, Hey, what's up, Tina? How's it going?

51:37
See you again. And then like she takes him into another room where he's gonna wait. And I'm like, I've got 30 minutes left. He's waiting for 30 minutes. Oh my god, she's gonna give me a hand.

51:47
So it was a whole time in your head. You're like, there's no way this is a real. Actually, Malcolm Gladwell has a new book called talking with strangers. That's kind about this whole thing where like, how you just when you started? Yeah, we misinterpret each other and how you really understand

52:00
whether somebody's lying or telling the truth and what somebody's true intentions are, and like, people get very far along in those predicaments where they like, give the other person the benefit of the doubt, because you don't want to make them look silly or we hope people are doing the right thing. Is it? What's the lower in LA?

52:16
No, you're not allowed to do. It's illegal in LA to do that. Yeah. And to receive it.

52:22
So you would have gotten done Imagine if

52:29
you laid with it like you posted it on your Instagram. Is there something like sharing what

52:37
if someone's on a long way

52:39
does an Instagram post?

52:44
new client?

52:47
easiest client so far?

52:50
Yeah, no, it was. It was a whole mess. It was a mess. Can we have the dress

52:57
is close by. We've been live streaming. I thought

53:00
For the last few minutes, we could write out some of the things people are asking. We've we've hit the 60 minute limit so it's turned off screen. I've got a few

53:10
cases where my favorite podcast is all in one place. That's biceps looks smallest sitting in between the OZ boys. That's all right.

53:23
The enemy anyway. It's Joseph ITGLF. Guelph, maybe, Matt, when do you take a shower before bed or in the morning? It's a great question. It's usually it's always after a workout. So and I'll usually work out probably about five days a week or so. Lately, since I've got an office now I've got an editor that just started we will go for I'll probably go for a workout in the morning around six o'clock and then shower right afterwards, but I definitely I usually don't shower at night, unless I've had like a really long day and it's almost like a therapeutic

53:56
massage.

54:00
He's super dirty. Actually, I do remember that shower to go to certain smell the massage. Oh,

54:06
now, it's gonna taste though.

54:11
Showers twice a day. Yeah, really? Yeah.

54:15
He's an evening one goes for like 30 minutes. Yeah. Just thinking they

54:21
just use it as a thinking place. Yeah, I think. Yeah, no, I mean, I like it. I think that and I've definitely had two showers in a day before sometimes if I'm like

54:31
very minimalist, but like sometimes in the morning if I'm going to be filming that day I'll take a shower because I need to clean up and like have like my hair not looking like I have bed head. Yeah. And then I'll work out in the shower after that. So sometimes I will get jostle. So how has stand up impacted your YouTube career? Oh, let's say I did a little stand up comedy. Um, I think one that's like just that thing of embracing discomfort and putting yourself in a place where you're just absolutely terrified.

55:00
Like getting up on stage and trying to make strangers laugh is I think one of the most vulnerable things that you can do. And one of the most like, gut wrenching reality checks, like right away, like if you bomb on stage, which I have many times

55:16
you kind of like your ego just disappears because you're like, Oh, I suck, and I have a long way to go. And so starting a YouTube channel, compared to getting on stage and telling jokes is so fucking easy. You know what I mean? I think when you do something like that, it kind of puts it in perspective. You should do 30 days of stand up No way.

55:35
For 30 days. Oh, good. No way. I don't think I have it anymore. I would make it fun.

55:43
Right maybe I think super fucking funny. But

55:47
yeah, no, I know. But 30 days, dude is the days of open mics. Yeah. 30 days. I don't like the you might see a little bit of progress for sure. But like it's over the long run. Yeah, it's over the long run.

56:00
Like, I know people that had to stand up they go like, sometimes they do multiple shows a night like in New York, like three shows a night, there'll be five to seven days a week just doing stand up, and they've been doing it for years. And it just takes a very long time to develop that skill. Yeah, it's, it's a full commitment. And it's like 24 seven, you're always thinking about jokes. You have that filter on everything in life, and it's kinda like you guys probably lose your filter with it. Yeah, but with your podcast, right? It's like, well, that's an interesting bet. That's something that I could talk about. And you know, when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel, we end up talking about food. Yeah, man. I ordered sweet potato. Did you know they've got more calories?

56:39
Is that true? Yeah. Gee, it's interesting.

56:45
Thank you. We're gonna be on your YouTube channel, the 19th of November. The actual should be fun. Yeah, it's gonna be amazing.

56:56
Hope sorry. If you've enjoyed the show. Feel free to Instagram.

57:00
Please share on Insta stories tag up Dave LR tag up ass. Also Apple podcast reviews are appreciated high fidelity talk show.com is the email address if you want to send us an email. Otherwise we said Mr. Guys Hey guys, guys