Moving To The Beach

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's a Daily Talk Show, episode 448.

Tommy: Weekend banter. We got Pete Shepherd and Michael Jackett in the building. Hey, mate. Uh, Pete, fresh off the, um, uh, the gravy train of, uh, Craig Harper. Mate, great episode.

Peter: Thanks, mate.

Tommy: Yeah, Michael, have you listened to it?

Michael: No.

Tommy: You're the only one in the room. That's fucking disappointing. Craig Harper, Whiteboard Lessons, and Pete. Good. Yeah, great job. You know what I love about— it was different, Pete, because sometimes we just get real loose and we talk about bullshit, but you've actually got something great to say, and sometimes we bring you down.

Peter: I'm sorry about that.

Josh: We do apologize, but there is a lot of podcast opportunities in the world outside of—

Tommy: exactly, it's about your 40th time back on the podcast. Um, how was, how was the experience with Craig? The first time you met?

Peter: Yeah, old mate Harper was great. He's a ripping bloke. Yeah, and it was cool, I think, from, from both of our perspectives of here's someone who's been doing coaching and speaking and thought leadership for quite a while, and here's someone who's, you know, some young whippersnapper essentially. And sort of that dynamic and the fact that we both essentially thought and believed and chatted about very similar topics, I thought was pretty cool.

Tommy: What's interesting about the coaching landscape, Mikey, you've had some coaching.

Michael: Yeah, a bit of life coaching.

Tommy: You didn't even tell me that. Someone else told me that.

Michael: I was keeping it secret.

Josh: Was it the life coach? 'Cause that's a client company.

Tommy: Is it? Yeah, but no, someone said, oh, Mikey's gonna need some executive coaching or something like that.

Michael: Yeah, so it was, yeah, so executive coaching, but very quickly moved into more of a life coaching area when I realised that I was a bit more fucked than I realized.

Tommy: That's how it always happens.

Josh: Was I doing like cleaning your pantry or was that a bit KonMari on you or what happened?

Michael: Yeah, no, look, it was amazing. Like, I cannot recommend it highly enough. Like, it's an amazing process to go through. It's somewhat daunting, but I went into it going I've got some stuff going at work and there's some opportunities and just in general I want to sort of position myself to take on more leadership within my roles that I'm doing in the future. And so part of that was going, all right, well, I want to kind of have some executive coaching and sort of get to the bottom of it. Really, it started around understanding a bit more around personality types and I was sort of like, all right, I really need to dig deep on my blind spots and what am I not seeing that other people are seeing? What have I colleagues and people that work for me seeing that I don't see. And fortunately, somewhere where we work, Pete, there was Brooke Nolli who runs a life coaching and executive coaching service. I'd met her and got talking with her and she was like, well, why don't we jump in? And I was like, yeah, fuck it, let's do it.

Tommy: Fuck, great sales. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Peter: Why don't we do it?

Josh: So what did you learn?

Michael: Oh mate, like, so it's a 12-week program, um, and it's pretty— it's like officially you meet with, um, your coach every couple of weeks, um, and but, you know, because I was at the Commons and so was Brooke, I was sort of seeing her on, you know, much more regularly and could sort of download and sort of bounce stuff off her. But a lot of it is just to do with, um, understanding, uh, what, what your drivers are and, and You know, as I said before, like blind spots are a big one for me because I know that in life we bring things to the table that we're not necessarily conscious of, but it really filters the way that we behave and react and how we push through conversations and relationships and all that sort of stuff. So awareness is the biggest takeaway that I can probably leave, or just give you in a very quick answer to that. But, um, you know, and it's awareness of all your behavior.

Josh: And, and, and 7 pumps of a SodaStream, you're telling us, which is pretty Yeah, that's a personality type.

Tommy: Out of context sounds a bit unusual.

Josh: That's, I mean, as a personality type, I don't know what type that is.

Tommy: Can you just bring Marky's volume up slightly?

Josh: Yeah, sure. Um, yeah, I mean, it's pretty outrageous.

Tommy: But you, so you are made aware, or you become aware of things that you didn't know were happening, or you approach situations a certain way that you didn't know. How do you then sit with the things that you didn't know? Because they're kind of negative traits if you're trying to go which one's more positive or—

Josh: And you have to ask people, do you have to say, how am I making you feel?

Michael: No, uh, not necessarily. I mean, that could be something that you do. Like, I did something which I tried to remember the other day, I can't remember the name of, but essentially it's, um, you, you put it out to a network that you know, both relationships like friendships but, um, colleagues and just other, you influential people in your life, and you ask them to pick out of a big long list of sort of attributes, like 5 or 6 things that would summarise you. And that's kind of identifying what you know about yourself, but also the blind spots that you don't know about yourself. And that's like a positive one. But then the more where I started to go, that's helpful, but it's very like fluffy and like, oh, that's nice that you think I'm a kind person or whatever. I'm like, let's cut the shit. Like, what am I not good at? Like, what do I don't— what don't I— what am I not seeing that I want to know and become more aware of so that I can improve or just be more aware of it? Like, there's certain traits about and things that we carry that you, you know, my personality type is too. And this is what became very apparent very early. I went into it going I want to learn what's wrong with me so I can fix it and then be the best person at the other end of it. And it's like, well, that's not really the point of it. The point of it is knowing what's— it's not even what's wrong with you, it's knowing your behaviour and what you're inclined to do within any given scenario and then making the most out of that or leaning into your good things rather than trying to resist the bad things or whatever it might be.

Tommy: What you aren't good at isn't necessarily— you could look at it and say that's negative, or you could just go, I just scrap that because I can focus on the shit that I'm amazing at. It's like you and I, Josh, business partnership, too different. We're very different.

Peter: Yeah.

Tommy: And so it's— and I've heard you say a few things a few times this week, I'm really shit at that. And so then it becomes this leaning into that, I'm really shit at that, that would take me so much effort to get good at that and it would be a waste of my time. And so it's like, how do you split? And so is it reframing what you think of the things that you're not good at.

Josh: Well, the other thing is it's just convenient. The things I'm shit at are the things I also don't want to do.

Michael: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. Which works out like if you just frame it like that, I'm shit at that, then all of a sudden it's like, well, we can't have Josh doing it. So, but I think that's the other thing too, right? Like we are, we think we're good at the things that we like and vice versa.

Michael: One funny thing that came up right, right towards the end, As Brooke was challenging me on lots of stuff and just kind of re— you know, I'd sort of go, no, you know, like, I don't think I'm kind of this person or that, well, that sort of thing. And then, you know, she'd be like, we'll come back to that, and just fucking wipe it away, you know, like with a couple of, couple of things. But what came out of it, well, I was sort of sitting there one session and I was just like, fuck, you know, that this is it, this has brought up way more questions than it's answered. And she's like, that's the point. You know, like, that is the point. Like, like, having the— and going back to what you said before, like, having the awareness of the questions and the continual investigation and seeking out the questions is really the point. Like, it's not really about having the answers. Well, answers come and go and, you know, shift, but it's— that's the— and, and once you get into that process and you actually— like, that's a scary thing. Like, when you, when you're constantly And I sat there and I'm someone that I can probably consider being reasonably level. And I sat there going, oh shit, now I'm starting to question lots of stuff. And not real fundamental, like not relationships and not life and not like work and stuff, but just like lots of incidental stuff that you would normally just pull out of your sight. And you start to bring it back in and go, hang on, why do I move that stuff away? To give me that path. Like, why don't I just bring that thing in from over there that I was, that I kind of pushed away, but I, you know, because I'm shit at it, so I pushed it out. Why don't I just come in, bring that in as in my, into focus again and start to question that? Or, you know, like, well, it feels like self-awareness is a personal journey.

Josh: Pete, how do you create or help someone find self-awareness being on the other end?

Peter: Yeah, I think it's, I think it's, to Mark's point, it's questions, really great questions. It's, I I heard a friend of mine who was also a coach say recently that part of what he thinks good coaching is asking questions you don't know the answer to. And I think there's a lot actually in that, which is the quality of your life is almost determined by the quality of the questions you ask, knowing that you don't necessarily know the answer, but being willing to sit in the discomfort of trying to figure out the answer or the potential answer to a question. So I think it's all about the questions you ask. Based on the context you have of that person.

Josh: Yeah, the, um, some of the guests we've had on recently, one of the most powerful questions they can ask is, um, what do you mean? Because it's, it's, it's an interesting place to be because as someone who's asking the question, if we're asking a question, someone says, what do you mean? Straight away it's like there's a reflection there that we have to like, oh, we need to dig deep. We're not explaining ourselves, we're not communicating. But it's also it's that like, um, what is it, like, communicate or clear? Clear is kind. And it's that ultimate, um, I want to answer this question right for you.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: So I just need to completely understand it.

Peter: I love that. I've heard the people that have asked the question of, oh, what is it that you do? And my friend Jen Waldman, she would always respond with, what do you mean by that?

Josh: Yeah.

Peter: She's like, is it, do you want to talk about what I do to earn money, or do you want to talk about the fact that I have a family, or do you want to talk about the fact that I have a podcast? Like, what do you mean by that?

Josh: Yeah.

Peter: And it's not It's not to attack the other person, but it's generous. It's like, I want to answer the question that you're asking me. So, what do you mean? Which question are you asking me?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. Like the anxiety developed by coming up with a question on the spot, it can be similar to having to answer the question for itself. You know, so that's when the anxiety kicks in when you're like, what did you mean? Because you like have to reframe and go again. Yeah. Which I like it because it's sometimes like, obviously not being clear. But then the feeling of not being able to answer something in a coaching session is when you feel it, you get a bit hot.

Michael: Yeah, you know, you're just like, I really enjoyed that. Like, I really sat in, like, because I went into it with no expectation. I legitimately didn't know what I was in for, and I legitimately didn't know what I was going to come out the other end with. Um, and so I kind of really enjoyed just being completely like present to the process and just not having a filter of, you know, what do I— what, what am I trying to get by answering this? Or by like, what's— you know, not— because that's what I do. Like, I, I, I plan, um, sometimes to a fault because, um, I'm very process-driven. So I'm like, a process will get me in, it'll get me through, and it'll get me out the other side. Um, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. Um, and so, but, but, but a, like, a negative that can come from that is that I'm too focused on the outcome sometimes. And so I need to just go with it. But when I'm in the, when I'm in the moment, I'm like, this is where I, this is what I love. Like, this is where I love to be.

Peter: Yeah.

Michael: I just, going into it, I can get a bit over-analytical about it and try and sort of plan my way through it before it's actually happened.

Tommy: What are the warning signs, Pete, of someone who you are coaching that you know that they're just trying to answer the question right, you know, they're trying to say the thing that you think or that sounds great. Yeah, but as a kind coach, you can't be— I mean, maybe you do, maybe do call bullshit. It's like, that's the answer you want me to know.

Peter: Yeah, I think sometimes there's a time and a place to say what's the real— like, if someone says to you, if you ask the question, what's the hard part, and they give you what you feel like is a surface level answer or something that they just think thinking that you want them to hear. Sometimes I'll say, try again. What is the hard part? What's the, like, what's really the hard part?

Tommy: Yeah, that's a great one. Multiple answers.

Josh: Because it's like what Craig Bruce talks about where it's like the third thought, third thought or whatever.

Peter: There's that, yeah, there's that 5 Whys framework I think someone has talked about where you ask why 5 times essentially, and by the time you've answered it the 5th time, you get knocked out.

Michael: Probably, mate, that's like my 3 and a half-year-old, probably getting pretty close.

Peter: I haven't used that, but people use it for their company vision and purpose is like, why does your company exist? Oh, we want to make money. Why does it really exist? Oh, well, we actually want to create this change. Why do you want to create that change? It's a framework. I also think the other thing I would say is, and just hearing you talk about this, Mikey, is tension and creating tension is actually really generous. And a lot of people really struggle with that reframe of tension and discomfort and silence can be super generous if you hold it in the right way so that someone like you can sit there and just sit with their thoughts and figure it out and actually try and think of not the right answer, but a answer in order to move forward rather than wanting to jump on them and say, oh, I think what you want to do is this. I think what you want to say is this. It's like, no, no, no, that's not my role. My role is to ask a question and then shut up and create that tension.

Josh: It seems hard when the negative thing or the thing that's stopping you to move forward might have been just the thing that helped you get to where you are. So the planning, for instance, the over-analytical side might have been extremely beneficial and the reason why it succeeded. I think that that's always a hard challenge is working out what's like, yeah, well, me getting anxious about this thing actually gets us moving and makes the thing happen.

Michael: But that goes back to you saying I'm shit at that. And really you have to sit with that and go, hang on, you can't— very quickly you cast something that you're not good at and you put it away to the side and you go, well, I'm not going to focus on that stuff. But really you know, there's potentially an opportunity to bring that into what you do and get the best out of it, but also allow it to be kind of fluid and other people to involve themselves within whatever that is. And, you know, like, there's good parts about it.

Josh: Yeah. I wonder about, like, um, what are you counting for?

Peter: I'm just thinking of a question in my head.

Josh: Sorry, I was just—

Tommy: you know, you're doing that in real life.

Josh: It was actually— I thought that was in my head. No, there's a—

Peter: I was trying to recount. There's an amazing question by this guy called Jerry Colonna, who is a very famous executive coach.

Josh: You look like the Rain Man when you're doing that.

Peter: I just had my Rain Man moment. So this famous executive coach who's been recently on Tim Ferriss, and he's written a book called Reboot. Anyway, he asks this amazing question, and that was— I was trying to recount it in my head, and I think it is by doing a rain dance. Yeah, by doing a rain dance. How are you complicit in creating the conditions you say you don't want?

Tommy: Um, say it again.

Peter: How are you complicit in creating the conditions you say you don't want?

Josh: Yeah, I mean, I can completely relate to that with, uh, our business and thinking about, okay, the constraints that we create. We say, okay, we want to be able to monetize the podcast, we want to do that. However, when it comes to making money, the calls we make is to do the work that we don't necessarily think is going to be our future. And so it's like I feel like there's also a conversation in defensive versus offensive type stuff, and I feel like it's so easy to go into the defensive mode, but actually saying, you know what, we're going to keep doing whatever we're doing, but let's do some offensive work. Let's actually like, what is the ideal plan? Rather than being like, let's squash the thing to create space for the other thing that you want to do, actually make the thing that you want to do so big and so powerful and actually ticking all of those boxes that there's no other choice.

Tommy: Well, everything we do, whether you call it a plan or not, falls into a framework of a plan. So it's like the exercise routine that you end up having, going to the gym where you just like, I just go. But if you actually do articulate what you do consistently, you could look at it and go, Well, that's a plan or a project strategy.

Josh: Everyone's on a different year.

Tommy: And then shifting it. So for instance, in reference to what we've been doing, you could say, oh, so explain the plan and whether you've created one for the future or for the place we want to get to or not. The one that we're currently in isn't that because it's like, it's like straight people who are, um, strategic. I can't remember the word. I've got to do this. I've got to do his dance.

Josh: Is that really helping? Um, I feel like that's only distracting you more from working out what you want to say.

Tommy: Yes.

Peter: I feel like the summary there is everything is a choice, and, and being mindful of the fact that even if you don't think you're making a choice, you're making a choice. Or you're making a choice to not make a choice. Like, no decision is still a decision.

Tommy: Intuitive strategy— intuitively strategic. Some people find themselves on a path without putting too much thought into the strategy of it, but for some reason they're good at doing it on the fly and implementing where they want to get to in today. Does that make sense?

Josh: Yeah, I think it— yeah, it's whether you talk about it or not. Like, I remember used to being really being scared of strategy and being like, oh, what do strategists do? Yeah. And then I was like, do I was working out something like content within a business. And then someone said, oh, you're one of the best people I've ever met at strategy. And I was like, what the fuck is strategy? What is, what's the whole thing? Because I remember I went to like Avenue Bookstore and saw like the book on strategy. It's the biggest fucking book you've ever seen.

Michael: I'm like, But yeah, it is, it is, um, it's strategy not just defined by problem solving, which kind of reveals strategy in a way.

Josh: Well, I think there's what, tactics, and then there's strategy. And I think that people confuse the two, like thinking about it in the, um, you know, like I guess from a strategy point of view, being able to zoom all the way out and being able to work at a more global level rather than we're going to move this thing here, which I think probably asking why is a quick way of getting it.

Peter: What's it for?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: A to-do list is tactics to get through to the end of the day or to complete a day of tasks versus looking at the task, why are we doing that?

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: Well, I guess what a strategy, a strategy would be saying that, say, with the podcast, if we're saying we want to we've got a specific audience in mind. We want to reach people in Europe who are fashion conscious because if we do that, we have this product that we can sell. And then saying, okay, we're going to— and then you can look at the tactic. I can't be fucked with strategy and tactics for a weekend banter, to be honest. This is why I don't talk about strategy. Well, I want to talk about Burning Man with— we're, um, Tommy and I were discussing going to Burning Man next year for the Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: Well, it was the whole thing that we always do this, and Amy watches and then she says, you didn't tell me you're fucking going to Burning Man.

Josh: Is that strategy or tactic?

Tommy: I don't know.

Josh: Definitely no strategy.

Tommy: But I will preface, Amy always says, you're not telling me, you didn't tell me you're going to Burning Man. We're not fucking going to Burning Man at this point.

Josh: You actually said, you said we should go to Burning Man.

Tommy: There's a big difference between we should and I've booked it.

Michael: Yeah, but that's because you document all your good and shit conversations. Yeah.

Josh: Yeah, true, true.

Peter: Give it a go. What's that for? What's the intention behind going? What's the appeal?

Tommy: What's the why?

Josh: What do you mean?

Peter: What's the appeal of clubbing?

Tommy: So no, my thought was, my thought was Josh and I are so different. I've spent a lot of my life getting boozy at the club, you know, just like doing what a lot of young people do. I don't go this much anymore at all.

Josh: You said you don't even use the word clubbing.

Tommy: I know, I'm fucking just playing into it for the people at home that might not understand. I don't know, how do you explain it? I went to nightclubs, I got up to— used to go out, Mr. Shit, went to the pub, got pissed, went to where? Party, party, warehouse parties, parties down on the water, you know.

Josh: You sound like a promoter. Party, party, come to the party.

Tommy: Vegas, couple of days, you know, having a lot of fun.

Josh: I've been probably to Vegas more than you have if they have been within a convention center.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, I've only been to Vegas once if that's what you're asking. Um, The point being is there's also a whole bunch of stuff that Josh does that I don't really have much interest in doing, but I get it. And so I'm a fish out of water in that respect. So there's Josh fish out of water. So I thought it'd be amazing going to the States and doing like fish out of water for each other, right? So Burning Man is more something that I would probably go to in my lifetime.

Josh: And I figured the party, party, party. I don't know.

Tommy: But imagine I was thinking Josh We get him real fucking ripped and rock hard. He's got his leathers on like we get a bike. We just go full Burning Man colors.

Josh: Just feel like you have to go leathers to Burning Man.

Tommy: It's a bit hot. No, but when I say leathers, I mean chaps.

Josh: Yeah, chaps. I mean, not—

Tommy: I mean, a small amount of leather, more, more amount of skin, right? And so it's just about getting you there. We do podcasts every day. We go for 10 days or whatever. Like PK's just gone for 10 days.

Peter: That's outrageous.

Tommy: And so you get an RV, you line up, it's an experience.

Josh: I love that he said to Amy, we haven't thought about this at all, but we'll go, it's a 10-day plan. We've gone for it.

Tommy: I only said 10 days. PK's going for 10 days. That must be what people go for. But you could probably bring the family. Like, people do bring kids to Burning Man. So we could bring Bodhi, bring Bree, bring the son, Mr. 97. But imagine that RV. And then what we do is finish up there and then we go straight to Vegas. To one of the tech conferences.

Peter: Yeah, sure.

Tommy: More in Josh's element, you know.

Peter: It's probably a similar crowd though, isn't it? Where all the tech Silicon Valley types go now. It's true.

Tommy: Elon Musk goes to Burning Man. A bunch of—

Josh: So, what's the deal? So, Bernie, I'm still trying to— I'm looking at PK's storeys and trying to understand.

Tommy: What are you getting from just seeing little stories?

Josh: Well, what I was surprised at, it looked like they— everyone's setting up their own bars where they're doing like He had— there was a concoction, like a big bottle, and it had like black—

Michael: That was cold press. Oh, that was drip coffee or whatever.

Josh: Oh, was that all it was? Coffee station.

Michael: Okay.

Tommy: So, there's no exchange of money at a lot of these places, right?

Josh: And so, everyone's just setting up their own—

Peter: Yeah, because you go there and there's nothing. And so, everyone creates something, I think is the idea. And so, in order for it to work, you can give someone a coffee and they might give you a beer or I didn't know about the e-com.

Josh: Sorry, not the e-com, like the, the commerce.

Peter: Yeah, yeah, there's no money, no transfer of, I guess, finances.

Tommy: And yeah, I mean, there's probably people doing that. What do the Americans do? They do the, um, Venmo. They just like send cash to each other or whatever it is.

Peter: Isn't that funny? And you're just like, oh, we just have our banks that you can just transfer money.

Tommy: Oh really? But, um, so there's that It's, um, you just set up and there's like, you can do yoga, like you can do it healthy. It's not just a drug fest, like, I mean, some people treat it like that. Yeah, and an orgy fest, like there's, it gets pretty low.

Peter: It would be outrageous.

Tommy: But I've seen like a lot of people take the, some YouTubers have taken their parents and like, yeah, they're on the bike. It'd be sick.

Michael: How do you get tickets?

Tommy: What's that?

Michael: I think when a PK, the crew that he's going with, I think he, um One of the guys' mums have come on.

Josh: Yeah, that's awesome.

Tommy: Maybe my mum, maybe JoJo, she can come.

Peter: I have a friend who's an architect and he was involved in building the, the temple dome that they burst. Yeah, like the— and it was apparently, it's, you know, people around the world would kill to be in this position. And he went there last year and built it, and then that's the thing they burned down at the end as well.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's cheap. Mr. 97, can you find out how much tickets to Burning Man are?

Peter: $390.

Tommy: And then you have to pay for a vehicle entry, which is $100.

Josh: It's only $390.

Tommy: No, no, but you have to bring a vehicle in as well. Yeah, $490. Yeah, a ticket. Say $500 per person. I mean, we'd have one, we'd get like a huge RV that we could all stay in. And so it'd be like a full Gronk Squad. Imagine that. We got to deal with Jaycar or whoever. They're a world global company, aren't they? Or are they just Australian? Like the RV specialists.

Michael: Jaycar's the electronics shop, but Jayco is the one.

Josh: No pain, no say.

Michael: JK will supply all of the power boards, like auxiliary cords, all the shit we can't use in the middle of the desert.

Josh: They will.

Tommy: That's so funny.

Josh: So how long do people go for? Because I saw 70,000 people or something.

Tommy: There's been a week already. Like, I saw a bunch of people there, and so there's a week before. I think it's like maybe like Coachella. I don't know, Mr. 97, can you get the dates? But you could probably just do stints at it.

Peter: Yeah, so PK's gone for the final 10 Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

Josh: What's everyone's— on everyone— what is on everyone's bucket list? Like, what if you see like Burning Man and South by Southwest and all those big events, do you guys have one on your list?

Michael: Burning Man's definitely on there for me, but it's got to— it like, unless you do it as a whatever that fucking thing is you're talking about with your kids and your everything.

Tommy: Like, that would be cool. Yeah, I mean, to get away, like, if you were wanting to leave the kids.

Michael: Yeah, that's That'd be cool. So it's got to come later in life.

Tommy: Yeah.

Michael: Um, I don't know, someone else?

Tommy: I've bungee jumped, skydived. I mean, those things early days. The funny thing about a bucket list, I don't really have one like I probably thought I wanted to tick things off when I was a younger person.

Peter: Yeah, like the countries I'd like to visit or like events. I mean, I'd like to go to the Super Bowl one year, maybe NFL. I think that would be cool. Yeah, sort of.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, it'd just be a great vibe. It's the biggest—

Peter: yeah, I went to a home and away game in San Fran at Candlestick Park when that existed, and it was amazing. But it's like 5 hours. I mean, the Super Bowl would be awesome.

Tommy: So what do you reckon, Josh? Will you do Burning Man and I'll do one of your conferences?

Josh: Yeah, I think that's good.

Peter: So what's the equivalent? You've got a 10-day tech conference you're going to take Tommy to?

Josh: Well, the thing is that it's— it would be pretty fun. Like, I think the ones ones that— what, what time of year is Burning Man? This is right now.

Peter: Right now.

Josh: So we're now 25th of August to the 3rd of September.

Tommy: Third?

Michael: Oh, so it's over?

Tommy: Nah, P.K. just went into it.

Peter: Well, this is 9 days.

Tommy: Is he posting old pictures?

Michael: Yeah, because remember, you've got no reception.

Peter: You've got nothing. Yeah.

Josh: Is he really playing that content strategy? Is that what he's doing?

Tommy: Did he sit with the strategist Josh Jansen and work out—

Peter: Bit of whiteboarding.

Tommy: That's true. So maybe it's my birthday too, so it'd be going out. That's awesome. So 3rd of September, say it's done. I mean, I'll think, yeah, PK's— I mean, what's he up to now? It's probably day 1. This is great. I'm looking forward. I'm gonna text him.

Josh: No reception's annoying.

Tommy: Oh, we can't do that. We could do— yeah, so you do a pre-week of podcast and then we get smashed into whatever and just punch them out.

Josh: I think all of my things though that would potentially go to you would love Uh, not as much as you though.

Tommy: Yeah, like I get bored very fucking quickly.

Josh: When we went to New York, there was a camera shop. Yeah. And then Tommy wasn't feeling well, so he didn't come.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, I just had a look around, saw the shit going.

Josh: Did you even see it?

Tommy: Yeah, I saw the thing going around the thing. I was impressed by it, and then I went for a quick walk and I was like, this is too busy, too many people here. And so it's that same vibe where it's like, I think, I think if you lent into that and we had to spend a week living in B&H. Yeah, there would be some funny shit out of it. So one of these conferences, what are they?

Josh: Um, uh, oh, there's NAB, there's CES.

Tommy: When are they, mate? Uh, CES is early in the year. CES is like Jan. Yeah, NAB then later in the year.

Josh: South By, the problem with South By is you would love South By.

Peter: Yeah, it'd be great.

Tommy: Have you been, Pete?

Peter: No, I'd like to.

Josh: Yeah, so good. Have you been, Mikey? No, I mean Barbecue.

Peter: I just love Austin. Austin is a really cool place.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: The good thing about Austin is it's like quite like it doesn't have like huge high rises. Like, and they have like in Melbourne, apparently there's a rule that you can't smoke foods at a certain distance from like the CBD, like you've got to be far enough out.

Michael: Really?

Josh: Yeah. Whereas like in Austin, like obviously all the barbecue places, you'd be walking along everywhere and it's all Yeah, but I mean, the rules are pretty loose in the States.

Tommy: That's why I really like it.

Josh: You've never been to the US?

Michael: He's never been to the US. I've been into Vegas. I went to Vegas for 2 days. I literally flew to the US, went to Vegas for 2 days, and then flew home.

Tommy: What was that for?

Peter: Oh my gosh.

Michael: Back at the bike company, just one of the— Intervike.

Josh: Are you allowed in the US?

Michael: Wow.

Josh: Yeah.

Michael: Yeah.

Tommy: Okay.

Peter: For 2 days at a time.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: I mean, I think that I'd love to. I've got the dream of living in Colorado one day or so.

Tommy: Oh, yeah. You know, our dad's got a piece of property in Colorado.

Peter: No way.

Michael: Does he?

Tommy: Yeah. He bought it back in the '80s or '90s for $4,500 or something just like that.

Josh: He's got—

Tommy: It's interesting, this millionaire or billionaire bought fuckloads of land and then was like selling it off in bits and talking about what it would become. And there was paper, like they've got newspaper clippings about like like what it will be. And I went and had a look at it and I found the location. I got it on Google Maps, mate, there's nothing there.

Josh: Is it like an acre or something?

Tommy: Or a couple acres or something? Yeah, he bought— and his mate Colin bought a bunch too.

Josh: Surely we should do—

Tommy: we still own it, like Dad still owns it.

Michael: Yeah, we—

Tommy: it'd be— you'd go there and it'd just like— there's probably bears, there's people, there's probably wild animals that will kill this shit.

Michael: Set up our own Burning Man on it.

Josh: Actually, yeah. If Burning Man is just like nothing. Yeah.

Tommy: This is a hilly area, quite remote, lots of trees. And so it's random. And then in winter it'd snow like crazy.

Josh: I think it'd be amazing. The other day we were doing the Our Perfect Day. I described my perfect day. You described yours. Tommy was— Do you get in trouble or no?

Tommy: Well, I was actually just regurgitating a perfect day that I'd written years ago.

Josh: Pre-family.

Tommy: Yeah, it was, well, it was pre a lot of the commitments I have nowadays, so that's fair.

Josh: Yeah, it ended with me getting on a plane to LA, and then it was after you went surfing with Bodhi, was it?

Tommy: Or something?

Josh: No, it was actually by myself.

Peter: It was a real selfie, it was a fucking selfie.

Tommy: It was a selfish day, and in hindsight I would do it completely differently.

Josh: Hindsight, it was a week ago. Anyway, Mikey, what's your perfect day? Like, go into real detail. You wake up, what happens?

Tommy: And just be conscious that Claire might be listening.

Michael: Well, so I've just come back from holidays up to Noosa, so everything that I'm thinking about at the moment is sort of filtered with the Noosa lifestyle. Yeah.

Tommy: So perfect day, wake up in Noosa. Yeah.

Michael: No, well, I mean, that's like, you know, waking up and not being tired. So not having woken up for, you know, trying to settle a 5-month-old at 3 o'clock and, you know, spending half an hour doing that.

Tommy: Fuck, is he still doing that?

Josh: Yeah.

Michael: Um, uh, so not being tired, waking up at early, like 6:30, going for a walk along the beach or something like that. Um, great breakfast, coffee.

Josh: What's the weather like?

Michael: Yeah, the weather's just sort of like just below 20 degrees at this point, just starting to edge into that, you know, like still a bit crisp, but you know it's going to be a good day.

Tommy: It's Gold Coast weather.

Peter: That's great. I love this.

Michael: My favourite thing, uh, so yeah, just smashing a long black, good brekkie, you know, like good eggs, like solid poachies.

Tommy: Not solid, runny poachies, but just 60-degree eggs.

Michael: Yeah, a bit of avocado, a bit of maybe smoked salmon with some capers.

Josh: Just where are you eating? At a cafe?

Michael: Yeah, yeah, the cafe where I know some people. And it's like, hey, hey, hey, Lawrence, who's that? What's going on?

Peter: You look well.

Josh: Yeah, um, been for a run this Yeah, looking good. Yeah, then what would you do?

Michael: Then, um, I don't know, maybe like probably want to incorporate like doing some like some work. So like next few hours of the day.

Tommy: Yeah, I was gonna say family at this point. Mention, just mention them, just mention your kids and your hide and sight learning. Yeah, yeah, just mention Claire and Jemima and—

Josh: Were they at least at the breakfast? Exactly.

Tommy: Were you by yourself?

Michael: Are we talking about perfect day or?

Peter: I mean, they've got their own perfect day.

Tommy: So you get yours.

Josh: It's actually true. Yeah, it is very true. When you said people knew you, you meant your family. Yeah.

Michael: Hi, Dad.

Josh: Claire, been for a run?

Peter: Yeah, you have.

Michael: Jemima, what's going on?

Josh: Had your perfect day? Good on ya. Hope you're sleeping.

Michael: Um, no, like hanging around the family, absolutely. Like, but, but, but perfect, like, work for me, like, would be being at home, family there, like, interacting, you know, and but doing, working towards something that, you know, like, I don't know, whatever it is, you know.

Josh: What would it be?

Michael: Oh, fuck, mate, I don't know.

Tommy: Um, your own business?

Michael: Yeah, definitely own business, you know, just working towards— let's not fuckin' dig into that. That's a whole other conversation.

Josh: He's been through some coaching recently.

Tommy: God, is this how he acted in the coaching session? I would have sat down.

Michael: I'm starting to fidget. Yeah, so working, you know, doing a few hours work.

Josh: What software are you spending most of your time in? I'm just trying to understand.

Tommy: What his business is?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Reverse engineer this. Yeah. What kind of programmes are you using?

Josh: Yeah.

Michael: Slack.

Josh: Just Slack.

Peter: Just talking to people.

Josh: So you've got employees.

Tommy: Yeah, he's got employees. High comms.

Michael: No, I don't want employees.

Josh: Okay.

Michael: So maybe some people, you know, maybe some people that work with you. I had this thought last night, actually, like the ultimate scenario, not having employees that you're responsible for where it's like tying you into an offer.

Josh: Are you describing Upwork? Upwork is like a— Go on.

Michael: No, but like just people that contract to you or like they're invested in the course in what you're trying to achieve, but they bring ideas and fresh thinking and stuff, but you don't necessarily have to manage them or whatever.

Tommy: Pay super.

Michael: Pay super.

Josh: So maybe like partner, would they be business partners or no?

Michael: Like considered more like partners than employees. I think that's a good—

Peter: Collaborators.

Michael: Collaborators.

Josh: Yeah.

Michael: Because the reason why I thought about this is how important it is to have people around you that are bringing fresh thinking and ideas to the table. From their perspective. So it was— this had something to do with something specific. And Chris, who I work with, was like, oh yeah, I thought when you were talking about that, yeah, I sort of thought about like this. And I was like, fuck yeah, like that's amazing. And it kind of made me go like, it's so important to surround yourself with people that are— that have a different way of thinking. And because you might be working to the same outcome, like we might be trying to launch a product like that, but I want X from it and you want something completely different, or you might be thinking about it from a usage point of view rather than an aesthetic point of view or something like that. Anyway, that was a long way of describing how I just want to have partner with you.

Peter: So it's 11 AM on your timetable.

Michael: Yeah.

Tommy: And it all goes down inside.

Josh: Seriously, there's a lot of fun in this. So keep going.

Michael: In me? Yeah. So yeah, like get just in general, just getting some like fulfilling work, something done for the day. Um, then, uh, going for a surf or something. Like, surf's got to be good. Um, or, you know, going and playing some tennis before having lunch. Not a heavy lunch, but something just sort of light. Yeah, it kind of doesn't— you know, you don't want something to really bog you down.

Tommy: Yeah, fish and salad, because I've got a big afternoon coming.

Peter: Nice piece of barramundi.

Michael: Yeah, yeah, something fresh, some salad. Um, Greek salad.

Tommy: Yeah, maybe.

Michael: I mean, I like— no, no, no, um, more like, uh, just some fresh salad with some feta. Yeah, goat's cheese.

Josh: Isn't it like Greek salad?

Peter: Nah, the olives.

Josh: You just don't want olives?

Michael: Yeah, yeah, maybe.

Tommy: This really is your perfect life because aren't you lactose intolerant?

Josh: Yep. Okay, that is okay.

Michael: That is fine, mate.

Tommy: Isn't that the cow's teat?

Peter: Me too. Yeah, hey, yeah, just a couple of lactose intolerant guys.

Josh: Um, the feta crew.

Tommy: That was a soy milk high five.

Michael: I can't drink soy. Almond milk though, that's something I started drinking. Yeah, almond milk. And Noosa bringing the creaminess back into my coffee.

Peter: So is this the afternoon you're having an almond milk latte, do you think?

Michael: Yeah, probably after lunch, after my fresh sort of fish kind of light meal. Yeah, almond milk latte. Um, fuck, I don't know. What do I want to do in my afternoon?

Tommy: Uh, play with your kids.

Michael: Yeah, yeah, family time. That's kind of family time. And friends. Catching up with friends is something that's really a big part of my life, but kind of it's become harder and harder, like, to really spend quality time, like, with Julesy and Sammy and, you know, and even PK.

Josh: And now you're gonna live in Noosa, so it's gonna be a bit harder.

Tommy: We've seen those guys more more than you just because we've had them on our podcast.

Michael: Well, that's a good avenue to actually see your mates.

Tommy: Yeah, um, it becomes weird, older friendships, you know. Pete, you— have you got mates from back in, you know, back from when you're growing up that you still stay in contact with?

Peter: Yeah, there's a core group of probably 5 or 6. Yeah, I caught up with a few of them last weekend at a mate's 30th, but I mean, it gets— as you would all know, it gets harder as you each grow up and go in your different directions, and someone goes and lives in Geelong and someone goes and lives in Ballarat and I go and live in Melbourne, and you just find it harder to create space to even catch up. I think that's a real challenge.

Josh: I just want to get the rest of Mikey's and then we'll go to Pete's because I actually think that this weekend banter, we can do what we want. But I think it is interesting because also it gets you to reflect of like my perfect day was like walking along next to a red bricked wall.

Peter: You did it.

Josh: And had blue skies. Yeah. And then having an iced latte and I was like, oh, fuck. I was walking to work, I was like, it's blue skies, and I found a red brick wall. I just walked along it, I was like, tick.

Tommy: All for the gram.

Josh: Had an iced latte, nearly got accidentally ordered an iced coffee with ice cream at the cafe, which would have been a nightmare. Lucky Tommy saved me with that one.

Michael: So I've probably gone on more of a, like, a perfect day that's like a consistent perfect day rather than like a specific thing that I would do on my perfect day if I had the chance.

Josh: No, my— I want to walk next to it every day. Every day?

Michael: Yeah, every day.

Josh: Red brick wall.

Tommy: Yeah, that lifestyle. You could be in the stock market, like you could just— you would actually just checking your stocks and talking with your stockbroker mates around the globe, just chatting stocks.

Michael: Yeah, I'm doing a bit of that.

Tommy: Get a few investments. Yeah, you do that now? Yeah, I mean, because that's— remember when we went up and stayed in, um, do you remember we stayed at Jan's place on the Gold Coast, Coolangatta? And I just remember waking up smelling fresh coffee and that dog was jumping on our bed. Yeah, we were young. We would have been like, I would have been 12, no younger, 11. You would have been a couple years older. We'd go down, we'd get a Whopper. Remember we'd get Whopper?

Josh: It was a, from Hungry Jack's.

Tommy: Yeah, we'd walk down because it was like, I was with big brother and then we were allowed out and so we'd walk down to the Whopper on the corner, the Hungry Jack's, and then get a Whopper, then we'd go to the beach. Anyway, um He was into the stock market and that was it. Literally, he'd get up and then have a coffee and then just be checking when the market opens.

Michael: Yeah. And then he was into poker in a big way.

Tommy: Really?

Josh: Professional gambling is an interesting one, isn't it?

Peter: Surely it'd be stressful.

Michael: Yeah, but just the game. Like, he was into all sorts of, like, 500 and bridge and, like, loved the gameplay.

Peter: I do love 500.

Michael: Yeah, I don't play it, but it's unique.

Tommy: But I mean, you need money to fund these, like, lives. Yeah, these lives.

Josh: And so, yeah, and so then your evening, what's, what's your evening? Perfect evening?

Michael: Um, like dinner, dinner, like early, early-ish dinner. Like really liking the early dinners.

Josh: Um, before 5 is nice. Wow, that's like, yeah, I like lunch. Yeah, no, but no, there's something, uh, having breakfast at 10 and then having lunch at 4:30— oh sorry, dinner at 4:30 and having only 2 meals a day Perfect. No, I did that for a decent period of time.

Tommy: How'd it go for you?

Josh: It was great. The thing, the only reason I wake up at night is if I've fucking eaten Uber Eats too late.

Tommy: Like, it's funny what you're eating at night, mate. Yeah, because majority of the world eat dinner, but not late.

Michael: Anyway, yeah, so early dinner, you know, between 5 and 7, kind of early dinner, watching sunset somewhere nice.

Josh: 7's not an early dinner.

Michael: Uh, 7's not an early dinner, but between 5 and—

Josh: yeah, yeah, it sounds like 6 though, which is the normal dinner time.

Tommy: It sounds like it's not bogged down. Early dinner, leave it at that.

Josh: Early dinner, 5 to 7, whatever your early dinner is.

Peter: It's all relative, it's all relative. Uh, Mikey's perfect day, right?

Michael: Um, you know, saying putting the kids to bed, um, I mean, it depends what age they are at this point.

Josh: Um, perfect day. How old are they?

Michael: Oh, I don't fucking know because I only know them now.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, it's a tough question.

Tommy: Yeah, it's a dumb question. Reframe it. What do you mean?

Peter: What do you mean by that?

Josh: I guess like 16.

Tommy: What do you mean by that? Every day they get older.

Michael: So yeah, no, I can't answer that because I don't— like, there's going to be sweet spots where they're little shits.

Josh: That's what I mean.

Michael: Yeah, but, but I can't I don't know what they're going to be. Yeah. So anyway, let's say they go to bed or I put them to bed, then reading a book, like a real good book, like getting deep into, like getting balls deep into a JP or something.

Josh: Who? Who's JT?

Tommy: Jessica Parker.

Michael: Jordan Peterson. Like something that's like balls deep, you know, like real pushing you on your, you know, like on your, like, you know, those books I'm reading.

Tommy: Yeah. You, aren't you reading, um, Yohar Ramami? I can't. Is that how you say it?

Josh: Yuval?

Michael: Yeah.

Josh: Power of Now or something.

Tommy: No, that's Eckhart Tolle.

Michael: No, no, the Sapiens.

Tommy: Oh, Sapiens. Yeah. Sapiens. And that's a pretty deep book, isn't it?

Michael: Homo Deus, I've been saying, but I heard it on a podcast the other day that they said Homo Deus.

Tommy: Anyway, we say a lot of stuff on this. So, if you're taking what we say.

Michael: Anyway.

Josh: Yeah.

Michael: So, getting like real, getting into a good book that I have to read slow because if I read too fast, I just forget it. Um, and then, you know, turning off the light at 9:30. Nice. Going to sleep, do it all again.

Peter: It's a good day.

Josh: It's not too dissimilar to everyone's day so far.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: What's yours, Pete?

Peter: I actually was going to say mine feels pretty similar to everyone so far. So I feel like I'm waking up early as well and I'm somewhere warm and my bedroom overlooks the ocean, like I'm across the road from the ocean so that I can wake up Open the curtain, bang, sun's rising, ocean's there, straight in for a swim.

Josh: Would you ever consider being on the side of the ocean or do you always want the road?

Peter: No, not necessarily a road, but like maybe like a footpath with some grass and then the sand. Quick swim in the morning and then, you know, you do your morning pages, meditation. Meanwhile, Cadbury, my assistant who we've established, he's in the kitchen cooking up my breakfast.

Tommy: Amazing.

Peter: It's some eggs, it's a nice omelette, some avocado.

Tommy: Cadbury's been with you.

Peter: Yeah, yeah, I want to put that in.

Josh: Yeah, okay, chef, I can share Cadbury.

Peter: Yeah, he's a good guy. And a long black for sure, a nice long black.

Tommy: Really?

Josh: If you had a chef, you'd still get a fucking long black? That shows commitment to the long black.

Peter: No, he would make it like he'd have it.

Josh: No, but if you had someone that could make anything and they could do a perfect latte— nah, it's amazing. Lactose intolerant, we just discussed almond milk. Yeah, anyway, that's the afternoon.

Peter: Yeah, that's later. So the long black, the nice breakfast, I'm feeling fresh, the salt water, you know, the wind's kind of coming through, the kitchen sort of overlooks the beach. It's nice. And then I would, you know, have a shower and do all that jazz. And then I, I think the idea of going to an office for me is something I would like. I don't want to work from where I live. So maybe it's a short bike ride, maybe it's a short walk, a little coworking space where I'm dialled in doing some, some sort of work, meaningful work with interesting people, is kind of the thing that I would talk to Craig Harper about. So whatever that looks like for me at that time, my applications would be Slack and Zoom, probably because they're the way that I keep connected with everyone that I work with at the moment., and I have plenty of interest in continuing to work with these people. And then maybe duck home. Cadbury's made me a nice lunch. I like that idea. You know, the fish, not too heavy, not too light. Maybe Chels comes in, we have some lunch together. She's having her perfect day, I'm having my perfect day. It's happy days all around.

Josh: Yeah.

Peter: And then afternoon, back to the office, bit more work. And then probably like 4 or 5 PM, I'm going to the gym, doing a workout, you know, maybe an hour, an hour and a half.

Josh: I've got a group of mates. Mikey, you scumbag, didn't go to the gym.

Peter: He played tennis.

Tommy: Oh yeah, yeah.

Josh: Yeah, you need to live.

Peter: You could tell us.

Michael: I went for a surf.

Josh: Is it legal back home?

Peter: Yeah, to surf. So I've got a group of mates, like all my mates, we all go to the gym together. I'm thinking, and there's 20 of us, we do a workout.

Josh: When any of your mates at the gym?

Peter: Yeah, a bit of fun, bit of banter.

Josh: Okay, lots of, you know, that's just a group training that you just so happen to like the people.

Peter: Yeah, exactly.

Josh: Yeah, that's absurd. Exactly.

Peter: And then straight after the gym's next to the beach as well, so I'm thinking as soon as you finish the workout Second swim, like straight in the ocean afternoon, which freshens you up to head back to the house. Bit of dinner. Cadbury's made something nice again. What a legend. Sun setting, you know, maybe a little glass of red or a beer. And then I like the idea of a book as well. Something, you know, making you think, something expand your mind. Exactly. Expanding.

Josh: So why can't we do this now?

Tommy: Well, you're gonna live in on the Sunshine Coast. The missing part at the moment is that we don't live on a nice The thing is, so Sunshine Beach, where mum and dad's friends Josie and Bob live.

Josh: Is that called Sunshine Beach?

Tommy: It's called Sunshine Beach, and it's on the other side. So Noosa, it's on the other side. So it's Noosa's, you know, got one sort of area, and then on the other side across the national park.

Michael: Were you talking about Josie and Bob before?

Tommy: Yes. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, I was talking about Jan and Malcolm, but Yeah, so our parents' friends live up in this spot, but it's beautiful. It's literally Bob's life. Bob gets up, runs through, swims in Noosa.

Michael: No, they drive their car the night before to the other side of the national park, and then they run through, they run through, do a swim, and then come back to the car and then drive to the cafe. Same cafe.

Tommy: Oh, that's fucking great.

Peter: So they've pre-parked the car for the next morning.

Tommy: It's so good. But this place is there's a bunch of houses along the beach.

Peter: Nice.

Tommy: And so it's just perfect weather for that. You could literally winter, you can swim, surf.

Peter: Here's what I'd add to that though. Cadbury would take the car for me. I would get so annoyed every night going, oh, I'm going to take the car again. Cadbury, come on.

Josh: I mean, so yeah, what is stopping us though? So it's the money.

Tommy: It's, I mean, commitments. It's how do you—

Josh: Can we move closer to it though? Can we, how do we actively get closer to that vision.

Tommy: I mean, what if anything, if any of us— Pete's got the business model to be doing it from anywhere in the world.

Peter: Yeah, I can work anywhere there's Wi-Fi to still make money.

Tommy: And so that's where you put these roadblocks. I mean, anyone who has a job where they have to rock up to an office, it's a huge roadblock.

Josh: We've got the office anyway.

Tommy: Yeah, I guess.

Michael: But that's if you own the business.

Tommy: If we own the business, then it's—

Josh: yeah.

Tommy: Or you work for Envato and you can just have good internet.

Michael: Work remotely.

Tommy: Yeah, work remotely. So there are new companies that are jumping on board.

Josh: So is it me being unrealistic to be like, why aren't we doing it?

Peter: I don't think so. I think it's a good exercise in order to help people see that their ideal life is probably not that far from what they have today. And also, to the point that we talked about earlier, full circle, that everything is a decision. So if you're saying that's your ideal life and the only way you'll be happy is you have that, it's like, well, you're choosing not to have that. So you're—

Josh: Yeah, like, how do we make these decisions Why are we making decisions that aren't getting us to a perfect life? Is it because the life isn't about having the perfect life?

Michael: No.

Josh: Is that a narrative?

Michael: We live unconsciously like that. And again, going back to life coaching and, or just any of that sort of stuff, it's like, it's asking those questions.

Peter: Yeah.

Michael: Is about becoming conscious of the decision-making and, you know, being con— and then trying to take control of your outcomes.

Josh: So then what happens if you're, um if you work it out in your 30s and you're like, okay, this is my perfect— like, I've worked out that this is what I want my perfect life to be, or this is what I want it to be all along, but I've made 15 choices that are essentially a fence and I'm stuck within this field.

Tommy: It's called they've bought a house.

Josh: Yeah, they put it— you got a mortgage.

Tommy: But I mean, think about the, the big life investments. If you have a property, it's like these things do tie you down to a life. And I think—

Josh: But then there's people who won't even do that. They'll never take the job or they'll do the thing because they need to be fluid and be ready at any moment.

Tommy: That's a version of, you know, it's like you're not willing to make a commitment. Yes, it's a commitment for just the opposite version. So not so— Yeah, I've always seen those people that kind of, I've got my options open. It's like there's power in actually taking commitment. And so the opposite to what you're saying, Josh, is working out that perfect day. But what about reframing your life that you have now? Because then why can't that be perfect? Why does it— like, so you kind of said it, you walk past a brick wall. Yeah, exactly.

Josh: I worked out the within constraints, how can I get the perfect day with the version of the life that I have?

Tommy: Which is a greater tactic than flipping your life upside down and get moving, actually moving to the Sunshine Coast.

Josh: But what are the excuses then? Is it the people around us? Do we say, okay, well, we've got like— where we have other responsibilities and people?

Michael: And I think it's just all of the above. Like, I think there's just an element of all of that. And, you know, it's not a bad thing to strive for, you know, a scenario like we've just explained that we don't have right now, but it would be something that we could strive for. But it doesn't mean that I don't enjoy what I do now and I don't value family and friends. And, you know, because with that, so with moving to— let's just say with moving to Noosa, I move away from something that's really important to me, which is friends and family. And you then, you know, crave that as like, when are my friends going to come up here? Because I've made this commitment. And then fucking just does, you know, that then that's been flips on its head.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: So was that then not your perfect day? Like, is that the thing? If they don't work in isolation, then does it not exist? Is it that thing of like— yeah, it's confusing.

Peter: It is.

Josh: I think I just want my perfect day.

Peter: I don't think there is a, like, a thing such a, such a thing as perfect in anything.

Michael: Yeah.

Peter: Perfect is so subjective.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Peter: And so relative and changes. So like, there can't be one crystal, like, clear version of perfect, I don't think. Because you go— we go up to Noosa and we live this life, but we take all our fears and our doubts and insecurities, and one day we wake up and we feel miserable, and it's like, huh, this isn't perfect. I'm still like scared, I'm still alone, I'm still— you know, all those things come with us.

Josh: Well, how many people like, um, actually I was going to say, I'm always sus on people who've moved cities. Oh yeah, which is probably a little bit like getting away from you. Yeah, it's just like, oh yeah, I used to— and it's like which I know was slightly judgmental.

Tommy: I've got a few people in my mind right now.

Josh: But there is a little bit of that, which is like people who have like completely uprooted or whatever. It's like, oh, what? Like, why are you in Melbourne? It's like, oh, you know, I just want to change. Like, you fuck something up. What are you running from?

Tommy: Craig Harper says it's not a geographical problem, it's a you problem. Meaning if you think you're going to move cities and you're going to be happy, maybe some people do become happy. I don't know, because they fall in love and it's about Well, they find a new job and it's passion. You know, sometimes it can work.

Peter: Yeah. I mean, I moved from Ocean Grove growing up to Melbourne to go to uni and to create a career and all of that. And that's been great. Like, that wasn't running away from anything. That was a progression of growing up. So, I think there are versions of it that work.

Michael: But I think it's also just don't get fixated on the act being the solution. Like, it's just part of— like, it's cliché, but it's just part of the journey. So, if you're making a commitment to move city because you've got this plan that's going to— you're going to learn more at a new company or you're going to— experience different cultures or whatever it might be, like, that's just one part of the journey. And if you get fixated on this is going to be the outcome, like, this is going to— it's going to be what makes me happy, then you're going to be fucking wrong.

Josh: Yeah, I even think about like Seth Godin, uh, you know, where he lives just outside of New York. It's not necessarily— like, in some ways it could be far away, like, it could be, you know, he's got a— he's a train ride away, I guess, from you know, being in Manhattan or sort of thing. But if you can do— if your work is writing or your work is doing a podcast, or like, how many times does geography actually play a factor in what we do? I wonder.

Michael: I reckon, I reckon it's big. I reckon it's big because environment is such a— is so— it's such an impact on mental health and I think you can make it, make it the shittest cough I'd ever heard.

Josh: Either cough or don't.

Michael: I think you can make it a bigger deal than it needs to be or than it is. Yeah, I think it's, you know, like you can, you can hack where you live being influential on how you feel about your day and what you're doing.

Josh: And, you know, there's the internet now. Like, if it's people, if it's the connection of people and you can, like, I remember when I started my business and I was in the suburbs I would have like Skype up and I had, I like at the end of the day I'd look and I'd like say bye to my mate who was also freelancing and it was like a 7-hour Skype call and we'll just have—

Tommy: How much money were you making?

Josh: Fuck all.

Tommy: So the, but the thing is you could do all of this, but I think the benefit of being in a room with a bunch of people shaking hands, exchanging, working on projects together.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And then, like, I mean, you've put in the hard— yeah, you've been to New York, you've spent time with these people. And so there is an element, you have to have some connection. And so we're talking about, you know, the, the grey head, the, you know, the grey nomad, the grey tanned bloke, woman in Noosa who runs every morning but has built some fucking huge business, now lives their perfect life. Like, I don't know, these lives that we're talking— because I've seen a heap of them, right? They're just these tanned, rich people who have worked really hard and now they just chill.

Peter: And so do you think you want that? Like, I actually think I like the idea of working on stuff that's still interesting to me.

Tommy: Oh yeah.

Peter: I don't think retirement is really a thing that I strive for.

Tommy: Nah. Yeah, I just do more of what I like doing, which is this. And so then it's the how do you sort of reverse engineer and do it?

Michael: I just constantly seek to be learning. Like, just, you know, it's not work. I call it work if you want, but it's just constantly like learning about a new topic. Like, I know I would get obsessed with going, all right, what the fuck's like agriculture about?

Tommy: You know, how do I actually use a SodaStream?

Michael: How many, how many pumps?

Tommy: Do I hold it or do I press it?

Josh: How many pumps do you reckon you can actually do before it explodes?

Michael: Oh, why would it explode?

Peter: Oh, sounds like a video worth making.

Josh: It would go everywhere though.

Peter: Downstairs in the garage.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, we're talking about a SodaStream exploding. It's not— we don't want it to go there. That's very, very dangerous.

Josh: Well, there was the— what I'm gonna watch after this, the, the kid who took the red wine and carbonated that.

Tommy: So funny. You're not meant to put anything other than water, but he tried to carbonate. Is that true?

Josh: No.

Tommy: What do you mean to put in there? What, are you gonna carbonate milk, bro?

Josh: No, you get the whole— there's packs, you, you can get different liquids.

Tommy: No, no, but aren't they just water, like, they're flavoring? Flavoring for— yeah, it's cordial. I'm saying So the texture of wine is not water, you know? Jesus turned it from water into wine.

Josh: Like, you don't know what you're talking about. Whenever you mention Jesus, I know the viscosity is higher.

Tommy: Well, I'm just saying it's a difference.

Josh: Can you find out? 97.

Tommy: Write this: what other liquids outside of water can I put into a SodaStream?

Josh: That's a long Google search.

Tommy: Let's refine it. Can I put other liquids in my SodaStream?

Josh: Acceptable liquids SodaStream.

Michael: Yeah.

Peter: What would you like to experiment?

Tommy: No, that's what I don't want.

Peter: Anything that was a good—

Michael: you knew it too.

Tommy: No, orange juice. You can soda stream some water and put it in and dilute your orange juice. Yeah, that'd be nice.

Peter: You're only allowed to put water in, otherwise it voids your warranty.

Tommy: Oh, we're not afraid of avoiding warranties.

Josh: Perfect life. I've got to go.

Tommy: Same here.

Josh: Uh, it's a daily talk show, guys. Thanks for coming on the podcast. When are you going to start your podcast, Mikey? Is it happening soon?

Michael: Yeah, it's, uh, it's one of the bucket list things.

Peter: Yes, the perfect life.

Josh: We got 50 episodes coming up. Is it next week?

Peter: Next week, episode 50.

Josh: The Long and the Short. Oh yes, uh, cheque it out on Apple Podcasts. Otherwise, we'll see tomorrow, guys.

Michael: See ya.

Josh: See ya.