- February 5, 2019
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show we’re joined by our mate Peter Shepherd. Peter aka Human Periscope is a coach, presenter and collaborator who is currently a head coach at AltMBA.
Being Josh’s walking partner
What is coaching?
Josh’s future profession
The pursuit of hobbies
The convergence of work and passion
Announcements and promises
Pete’s experience with social media
The balance between overthinking and improving
Creating an environment for relatability and authenticity
The learnings from Pete’s podcast, The Long and The Short Of It
Peter’s podcast, The Long and The Short Of It:
Watch today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show podcast at
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A conversation sometimes worth recording with mates Tommy Jackett & Josh Janssen. Each weekday, Tommy & Josh chat about life, creativity, business and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and friends of the show! This is The Daily Talk Show.
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It's a daily Talk Show Episode 276 he got periscope paid in the building.
I say, thanks for having me pay to
shepherd. What's going on? How much?
I'm just happy to be here. Yeah, he's a neighborhood. I mentioned on a few episodes recently, so I'm happy to come in and
I'm gonna say hopefully,
well, you've been my walking partners, like, because I wanted Tommy to be my walking partner, but I feel like he's my partner and everything else.
I don't want to be walking.
Right? Yeah, some point. Yeah, exactly. What because what you've turned into a disease counselor. It feels like
yeah, who needs a
psychologist? That's why I don't need a psychologist. The conversation goes to Josh his friends Josh says, I'm going walking with my friend Pete. And then Pete says he's made I'm going walking with my eccentric my,
my client, I'm going
I'm going listening with a friend of mine.
It's pretty cool. Because the like, the conversations that you enjoy, have a we have we have on this podcast? It's like, people like converting that into money, which is unbelievable. Yeah, it's such a new thing. I guess people have been charging for fucking psychology sessions for years. But now we're just like this people who just have something amazing within them. And they're making money out of that, because they bringing value to someone else. So essentially what you're doing, but you're not getting paid for the Josh stuff. Yeah.
The YouTubers. I've noticed, like people putting up what are they called, like a schedule where you can book in time for them to talk, but they keep it really low level where it's like are, you know, it can be a coaching session? Or do you just want to chat?
which is sort of you pay the YouTube and have a really Yeah.
Which I think is maybe a bit much, it probably it feels a little bit like, I get that they need to make income. Yeah. And people definitely begin the way they frame it is like it's a great self development opportunity. And it's also great way to become friends.
Anything that's a bit we I think the friends thing is we I think if you're adding value as a UTM, like this is my experience. Yes. What's helped me get to how many subscribers? Yeah, you adding value? Yeah. But like, if you want to hang out and be my friend, and I'm going to charge you for it? Yeah.
You basically an escort without the
man, you don't? I mean, what I mean, Coach it, how do you define coaching? I'm going to move your mic up just a tad to
make it even more
coaching, how do you define it? It's good question I,
I actually struggled a little bit with the terminology coaching, because I think it can conjure up a lot of images of bad experiences that people have. But for me, I define coaching is like someone, a coach is someone who is curious, someone who asks questions, and what's different to me between a coach and say a mentor, is a mentor is usually relying on having an answer. Having experienced that will help someone lucky in that example of a YouTuber, if it's like I've developed $100,000, this is how you could do it. For me, a coach is someone who doesn't necessarily have to have had the expense. And and know how to do the thing that this person is doing. But they are curious, and I can help someone through that and help them by asking questions, and by supporting them and having accountability to help them get to where they need to go without an attachment to what that thing is what if that makes sense? Yeah.
I think I could get behind like having a coach, what's the first? Like, what should you be looking for when you're trying to find the right coach?
I think like anything, it's Look, it's
pick your client.
It's a good looks first, and it's basically just, to me, it's like a connection with a human you do you feel like you want to have a conversation with this person? Do you feel like they are someone who's trying to charge you to be their friend? If so maybe that's not the best fit. If it's more I see I could get value from this person, because they seem to be interested in curious enough in what I'm doing. And that is someone who I might want to work with. I think it's it's like anything Josh
has had some pushback on psychologists. I think about like you as a coach, do you think there needs to be sort of stars aligning with an individual, so it's a right time for them in their career, right time for you in your career? Right experience levels on either side, where it's kind of just hits together? Because I think, you know, you can find a coach who's like you're questioning their experience, you don't want any of that stuff on the table. So do you think there needs to be this like synergy or it just won't work? Yeah,
I think so. I think it's something I think about is and while I'm definitely not a psychologist, I imagine the logic is similar in that not everyone needs a coach. In fact, no one really needs a coach. But people need a coach in the right moment with the right opportunity in the right frame of mind. It's not that it's like a must have success. But a lot of people get a lot of value out of having someone at the right point in their life, with the right context and the right conversations that they can have. They get a lot of value out of that. So it's not that it's mandatory. So I would definitely not push it on everyone. Yeah. But if someone out there thinks that they need need a coach, and they have an idea of what success looks like for that relationship, and they can define that to a coach, then a good coach, I think would say, Okay, I can help you get there, or I can't, but I know a guy called Josh and he could probably help you get there
is your being in the world of coaching? Do hang out with a lot of coaches.
noticed that all of a sudden, once you started this professional side? Or Hang on, like all these other people are doing as well? Yeah,
I think so I have a group of friends, I guess and coaches that I hang out with through the MBA that we work with sort of four months of the year. So every quarter, we run that and we all hang out essentially online and talk a lot. But I think the other thing that I've noticed is I'm not necessarily hanging out with people who I would define as coaches. But what I noticed is that this posture of coaching exists in almost any role. I would say a lot of the work that you guys do is part of coaching coaches, you're asking questions of your clients, you're trying to get them to define success so that you can help them solve a problem. Yeah, that's very true. that's a that's a coaching posture. Yeah, serious posture. So I think it's less about a surround myself with people who call themselves coaches. But more about I'm noticing people like you too, and other friends of mine, they might be in corporate roles, who helped clients solve problems, but they're starting to do it with more of a coaching
philosophy. 97 can you set up that thing for me for the YouTube thing? If people can take either a friend chat or a casual chat?
good? Actually, I think there's a book that Michael been gay stina what a name. Yeah.
make that up, guys. Yeah,
no. I think it's called the coaching habit. Yeah. Which is all about this sort of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. The coaching habit. I think he's, he's in Australia. He's an Australian dude, who has a business in Toronto. But he's done like, I think maybe TED or something similar, like Google talks and stuff. But I filmed him like last year, he was doing something with Dr. Jason Fox. Remember TJ I feel has like the best shirts this guy it's got a group super It reminds me of like, like the library librarians always have like, seek Australia on style. Like, if I can look at it, you're like, Oh, shit, there's a koala and there's a bit of Gumtree he had that, that sort of,
that's still an occupation
library like it's good question.
Who are they? And I can
be the sickest. Joe, I would love to be a librarian
at 910 other jobs that would be epic. Not saying librarians bad if you're a librarian be
sick. No, but just think that like, you've got all of this knowledge and a whole lot of quietness. Yeah,
no. downtime. Yeah.
I don't reckon they would be downtime. Because imagine every single day, you'd come in with a different obsession, like I would be saved that whole knots thing, like I was, I was wanting to buy a book on knots. And I looked at the reviews and they're like, this is not for beginners. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, there was this book it's called the Amanda something I'll not book anyway, though, because I went down this rabbit hole of someone said, I just typed in knots onto Amazon. And I said, reading the reviews, and then someone had said in an acronym, this is definitely not at the standard of the AMD not spoken. I was like, What the fuck is it? I need the AMD not.
You've come across a subculture. Yeah.
And so but if I was a librarian on 100% be in the corner, just with a book and a piece of rope stuck in trying different trying different knots until someone needed to know the whole I can
Julie system or whether I think it's I haven't been to a library recently. But a friend of mine went in. I think it might have been in Christchurch, they opened a new library after the earthquake as a number of years ago. And apparently it was like, amazing. Yeah, yeah. old technology driven. Now there's no all I have in my head, this old school system where you go and like type a little book code into a computer and they don't find you have to like scan,
which is sounds fun. Also,
I actually, maybe my love of it comes from when I was in primary school. I would if that if my teachers weren't on Dr. Judy, so I couldn't hang out with them. I would do the book stuff. So I would. I've always been a bit of a photo reader where it's I collect but I love books, collected all the goosebumps books that were my brother's never read them to read. But also being in the library and thing and back in the day to the library and thing. That's not what I meant. But do you remember the old barcode readers were like a stick? And you had to like doing that? Yeah, that's like
old school. And you'd be able to look at on the back. When the last time it was booked out based on the stand.
I did like that. Looking at a book title say it's like a movie store to it all used to be sort of hands on you'd have to be searching through one was even like a paper you folded open it up, find where it leaves I always see you is the level cap to the counter and saying, Have you got this in? Yeah, and then I just type it in? Yeah, we do
here or no, come back next week. Yeah. And you walk around the store aimlessly like Yeah, what could I watch? How many like the movie store? How
many books he allowed to take down to the library at once? Do we know you?
haven't been to a library
there. But I was just wondering like, is it?
And why did why do I buy? Yeah.
Why? Why are we have a problem
with the library has all the books that you want? Yeah. Why is it that we don't?
It's like $20 on dude, this free libraries. Now you can rock up your libraries a friend. Yeah, but ones that you don't have to give a card that you can put your book there and take a book hard, but they probably don't have your books that you're looking for. Yeah, yeah,
that's more like that's like one of those community things. But I think the idea is that you you once you finished it, I guess you
put one take one maybe that's what I can do with all my Have I
given you a copy of some of the books that I have. pain? Can I just go and grab?
Whatever comes to catch up, Pete, I was looking at your website. Yeah. Sounds like a stage piece of banter.
What's a noodle? noodle? Yeah, on your side? It's like noodles. I like New Order black bean here.
What do you got? What's up? I think of noodles is like a thoughts Academy. I've used the phrase, I don't even know where it came from. Like I'm noodling on something I'm thinking about something I get trying to unpack something. Okay. land on noodle. I've landed on noodle. And I've doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on it because of conversations like these people, or is that what is that?
I mean, it's similar to my drunk. Yeah, I've seen that being used. fairly frequent. And it's now into the lot was taking off. Yeah. All right, we're just getting a whole bunch of books getting dumped. So I had the idea a while ago on a bookshop
with my favorite books. I have all of these books that are all the Do you like Austin? Klay on I do, actually, I really liked you like an artist.
So you've almost blocked out Pete's face with
still saving one incredible girl. So
anyway, so I had this idea. And we've spoken about it on the Craig hopper episode. I think we spoke about it on one of our many walks to
Yeah, so I as you're coaching through the hoarding habit, he said, this is what happened. I ordered 1000
books, and I don't know what to do. What should I do?
So I should bet, please take one of each night sort of thing. Yeah. conspiracy. Jimmy's just looking in the corner over there. That's actually probably looks nice on the desk. Yeah,
she uses decoration.
There is something that's gonna be coming about books on writing by Stephen King bad. Something interesting. I actually, I've listened to the this is the dumb bit about it.
If it wasn't already dump it.
The dump it is that I am. I've only listened to the audiobook, haven't read this actual
majority of my books, books over there. Yes, it probably needs to be kept. I mean, we've spoken about this many times, my solution was, you know, a T on the whiteboard, one side is bought one side is red. And so you've got to just if there's more on the board section between the rather than the red, as in, you've read them, yes. You can't buy anymore. So you know, let it bother them. Yeah.
Because you're always going to
be one in one out. Why would you need to actually know point? Your co host, I was listening to your latest episode, the the tool and the short of it, the long and the short of it. Just be hot.
You've totally done that based on your height. Right?
So you're Jen is how tall she's five foot one,
and you're six, seven and obviously accept
that. But there's also the long and the short of it is like a phrase for when you like explore an idea. Yeah, look at all sides of it.
Well, she's a hoarder as she as she she will she buys books. Oh, yeah. And has bookshelves in her apartment. And she lives in New York. I could imagine a houses or apartments quite small for New York, because they're all very small, small wall. They're just books, but she keeps them and takes him out years later and read them. Yeah,
well, this is the thing is that there's no going back with mine because I'm underlining every book that I read. So once I've it's sort of like putting a mark on it, which is like, you know what, like, I'm taking ownership of this book. Now this don't this. No longer is the author's book. This is something else this is it. This is a hybrid. But the one of the hard things if I decide to one day, go down the whole con Mary thing. No one's gonna probably want my books,
right? Have you written in all of it? No, no,
no, no, I haven't signed him that would be visit. I know that there are people who will give out books, but they saw which they sign up, but they're not their books. I got given a book for my birthday. You
want to Seth Godin is actually and I wrote in it, yeah. And then it was like, oh, maybe I take this to Seth Godin. And get him to sign it sign it when we're in New York. Yeah, that was like that someone else's
used to do that and write a nice message inside the color.
I actually have a book that I was given in 2004 called screenwriting of my what's called screenplay by my teacher and I still have it. It's like I love that because it's like, it's one of the few things I have is like proof and actually cared about that shit.
What what it's obviously this excites Josh and you can sit like if you watch this podcast and listen, this podcast, you see the sort of ebb and flow of Joshua's excitement levels in life. I mean, we probably won't be talking about books this hard in 100 episodes time, or maybe I don't know. We've seen it come in and out of what he's talking about. What What excites you like this does for Josh in terms of his life? What like a double down on the books?
Very impressive. Yeah,
I enjoy Is there anything that gets you going like this? Yeah,
I think honestly, like conversations like this. Yeah. and meeting people like you too. And others all like all around the world. I think what's really cool at the moment, and a lot of people talk about this is like, outside of all the bad people look at what the internet is it also opens all of the doors to all the people and you can surround yourself with the smartest people in the room by putting in a podcast Yeah, or watching a YouTube video Yeah, all their content is free and
you can go and read it. wallow in the shadow
that the fat guy yeah, now we still post that we still post
the episode Mr. 97 set up man you know people actually up voting. I didn't have the heart to tell him that that was a
there's already one out vote every time which I think is him posting it and then the second
time also where you review the podcast on the podcast. Yeah, demonstrate and it's the one that
Great dancer guys.
can we fix that? If you if you're enjoying the show? Please give us a review on iTunes. We never asked Pete do you have?
Because I think like that answer. I get it. I enjoy the conversations too. And I've got lots of friends that I think is similar to you where it's like that is what fuels them. But what about like, legit hobbies? Getting old? No, seriously? Think about this. My life is pretty much making this podcast doing your business with Josh having a wife and a baby. No time for yo yos doing this year, so it's like there's a lot of time spent on just fucking keeping alive and keeping signs that I should probably factor in some fun shit. Yeah, he doing fun shit. Yeah, I think so. I think like I would
reframe that for you in terms of I think the work is the fun part. Yeah, not to say that I have a life without any other fun parts. But
I definitely think I've created that. Yeah, then I also go What about a break? Yeah, yeah.
What's my break? What's your break is that every time the delivery man comes with another book? Yeah.
What's the you guys higher?
I think for me exercise, going to the gym. Have a community of nights that we all sort of work out together most of
what came first the night like we mates with them and then join that gym or did you actually turn gym people into mates? Which I've never heard or seen people into mates? Actually, I've done that. Yeah.
pretty amazing. Bry like we went to buntings the other day and she's said hi to someone. I said, Who's that? She said that someone from 45? Yeah, yeah.
And we nearly stopped. What's the conversation with someone that you because the Collingwood one so small, so it's not like they're having real Yeah, deep conversation. It's funny
that happens to me too in Richmond. So I trained at the one of the CrossFit gyms in Richmond, and you say someone walking down the street in a suit? And you're like, I don't know that person. I
look usually usually there and you know, actively.
And so did you hang out with them outside of lifting shit? Yeah,
like we would grab a coffee on the weekend, we would go out for a beer on a Saturday night. And yeah, I've sort of got a small group of mates through that. And so that I guess that would one of the things I would
outlet. I think travel as well. Like, I'd love to go on holidays and travel and you know, hang out with my girlfriend and watch Netflix every now and then I'll go for a walk watch a movie. I don't know. I'm trying to like, I feel like I'm living a boring life.
No, I mean, but, like, from the industrial era where people weren't in love with working on the factory floor, the line. And so there was, you know, this pursuit of things outside of work, whereas now, a lot of people have converted this sort of work into their life and, and all of that, so it's escapism is a side
hustle, raise match. Yeah. I mean, Seth Godin, who obviously took comes up a lot in this podcast, he do dead. Someone asked me
he said Mo. Mo. Yeah. Yeah,
really nice cut, and very smart. Yeah.
But yeah, he tells this great story be shattered if you didn't have a smartphone.
And as the sun you'd also be pretty
intelligent What's going on? So he tells a great story of him being on a laptop in a in the Bahamas at a hotel or something. And a couple walk past and he heard them snigger like, Oh, look at this low life. He can't even relax when he's on a holiday. Was that to said, I think she might have it too. But he thought to himself, better to create a life that you don't feel the need to escape? Yeah, right. Like they live a life where they have to escape work, and switch off where he's like, I enjoy the work I do. So I can come to the Bahamas surround myself with a different environment. But I still enjoy doing my work. I love that
because I've got like Bray would go crazy at how much like, especially early on. I've gotten better over the years. But just being on my laptop. Yeah.
Even like when you travel,
you recording the podcast? Yeah, exactly.
But that will aid something like I even find filming at family events like Christmas is actually my wife getting through it and enjoying it. Because otherwise when I'm just sitting there and just thought I can be a bit flapping. Like, get up. I'm creative. Yeah. And so you Yeah, you were kind of we were really in this time of meshing together. Yeah, these like these, you know, these parts of life? Yeah. To make life more enjoyable. Yeah.
And I like the idea of doing it in a different environment. So I guess the travel would be one of the things that I would say, just to try to go to new places, and
how do you? How do you merge, like with the whole friendship thing? Have you introduced your friends, to your girlfriend? And how does that happen in regards to you start hanging out with people at the gym?
brain? I've done it maybe half a dozen times where it's like you've been able you've made a friend with one person and then all there's a couple you've ended up like going and hanging out? Yeah.
Have you have you actually system? You've got a system process? Has it happened many times? Well, it's actually it's funny, because I actually met my girlfriend at the gym. Oh, wow. Yeah.
So she was one of the friends that I met and started hanging out with. And he's now my girlfriend. So we have a similar group of friends. Oh, so
that's like, so that so you're all friends like so you've got a great friends. Yeah.
But having said that, I mean, like anyone This is often I have a friend that she doesn't really know, well maybe necessarily want to hang out with him and vice versa, or I think yes, I think that's human nature. Yeah, yeah.
Well, I've got I've found that some couples I like one of them more so than the other only because I don't vibe with the other. But on the weekend we caught up with Bodie, my son's first time catching up with one of his mates from daycare. It's how
they best he's a cat all they like always talking about each other. It is so bizarre. And so the dude who is this kid saw a dad he said, he said fuck man, like I can't even remember him being a baby. Now he's but he got his mates coming over. But I was like that statement of like having this transition between you know, zero and two, and he's already hanging out with these meds. But this couple we don't know them. But we just really gel with both of them. And so and but I've had other couples that we've caught up words like, I just don't, it's just not there. Yeah. Which isn't bad. It's just what the
reality of it when I mentioned the reality is it gets even more common in terms of like, if somebody becomes friends with somebody and you don't necessarily like the parents.
Yes, like, and I don't like you, but we're not there yet. Because I still have to say, whereas when he's you know, four or five, please, can I go to Calvin's?
obsessed with money.
You just imagine
more money than
I can actually imagine. Calvin's dad might be like,
a pretty clear he driving Maserati. Yeah,
you have a Maserati and tell me How's business? How's the rave game? I
always just talking profit. And
one thing on this
one of the thing on the book that I
only realized when flicking through is this, which you wouldn't be able to say if you listen to the audio only bits of black dot type of thing. Yeah,
so it's page 213 13.
In the book, Stephen King on riding there's a black Yeah, it's it's my sauce that no, I've got it as well.
So this is what I'm confused about. Ridiculous. This, this? Is this an issue with the printing? Yeah,
that's hundred percent. I think you should get 43 refunds.
Good. I mean, it's four years like,
Stephen. If you're watching. Yeah, what's the deal? If this is the case, I want a full refund. I've underlined in all the books already.
Got the book? Have a look. Yeah.
If you've got maybe that's a way of knowing whether you've been gifted a book from the is based on if you have if you do have Stephen King's on writing. If you can work because Seth Godin had an issue. Did you did you say that I saw it on his blog talking about it. The printing, he had a printing issue where it's like 100 of the first hundred. We're all back the front or so.
This is marketing. Yeah. Yeah.
Which I would have like, I would be super happy.
Well, that's what he said. He said it's either you want a new one or this is a special
edition. Yeah. I'd be all for the Collector's Edition. Are
we talking about that book in this room? Why? Oh, yeah.
Now well, it's I don't know if you saw the the gym or episode. I've decided to Okay, so I've decided to donate the money myself. I just felt bad.
Coaching throw paid plays. Did you know yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Ground woeful. Yeah. Yeah, he's got this. Yeah.
Thank you. The reverse coaches, said, this is probably the one thing that
you have. I reckon a good deadline would be
50 days after I moved into a new place.
Okay, okay. Is that a cop? Yeah.
probably I've been more hype. So I'm over 50 pages.
Over 50 pages How long? He's definitely not coaching at this point.
How long it takes
for people who don't know I've I decided in December to rewrite Seth Golden's book word for word. Yeah, this is marketing. The anxiety. The thing is that it's impressive. Yeah.
it. And that's not the this is the problem. Yep. You're hyping me up again. I might, you know what, it's just impressive. committing to it. I don't need to do shit to prove to anyone. To be honest. It was just you fuckers watching and listening. I'd be fine. It's the problem. The problem is that I emailed said, yeah. And so Seth is going to get it because I said end of December. It's gonna happen. Yes. He's like, looking forward to saying it, which was I saw is like a little bit slide trial as well, which is like, yeah,
I'll believe it when I say lucky. And so it doesn't as long as I get it done. I feel like we can have Seth on the podcast. I tell ya. I can't even send him a name. I had a great idea for something. Like I was like, Oh, I wonder how Seth feels about this. I was going to email him. I actually can't email anything. I need to go silent until this book's done
big promise. I made the promise last year vegan hundred videos made 25 and I and it was the public it like it's when it's on a platform. We were talking this morning about people making announcements or announcement videos about them about to do something. Yeah, there's I think there's a real problem here because I watched about to last night trend and people on guys you know, had a month off guys I'm back. Yeah, this year big changes. And he was just going into a basically said nothing. He just said he's gonna try and make videos, which is what he did last year. And so I was like, this is an announcement video about nothing. Yeah,
I reckon if you searched on YouTube, I'm back for like, the amount of in quotation marks the amount of fucking bloggers would say, guys. Yeah, I'm back from a
break and feeling good. I've had six years off. I've got a few ideas. I'm feeling good about this one.
Are you tempted to make announcements about things? Not at all? No, you know, I tend to not do it kicked into myself. I mean, I I guess
announce things to myself in my head is in make promises and ideas and sometimes set goals. But I'm not one to publicly announced them. I think I wonder if I wonder if people have read a book that says making an announcement will help you know accountable to that I reckon up decided that that's the way to hold themselves accountable. But clearly, it doesn't work. However you your video that you created as a result of it was hilarious.
Thanks. Well, I think that Yeah, you gotta say make kicking.
It didn't look like look legit. Yeah. Then
you said he wasn't. Now I went back and watched about thoughts.
I mean, we video guys we know how to
video real secrets. If you
want to tell. I want to know, but we did it a few times. So we first tried doing it slow motion. And actually no, sorry. We started off with my leg being at Tommy's crotch. Yes. Yes. Reversing then actually worked out better of me just having the self control to stop us before he's
Yeah. And I did a little Jerry. Yeah, yes, I speed ramp that at the very moment that we went out of slow motion. It's not made it look like it went really fast.
Now I'm gonna look that up.
Just noodle on that for a minute. Yeah.
I don't know what. You're going to my good. Yeah. What was I? Was it something about the
being? I'm back stuff on YouTube? Yeah. I mean, the rabbit, the rabbit hole stuff of clicking through and creating the stories on people I'm constantly doing, which is
even without social media. Yeah.
Even without social media. I'm just finding others platforms. So the daily talk shows I was up 7% on Sunday on social media. But no, I
mean, here's the problem, right with announcing anything announcing that you're off social media, people do hold you accountable for stuff. So there is some there was some sort of like flowing effect from the announcement? Where's like, if you read really didn't want to touch it? Which you haven't touched your own? So I'm actually proud of that. Yeah. You haven't done your own social media. You're on the day talk show. Yeah.
But I think that is probably part of it to your point people forum about people writing up and then doing it. I reckon it's just natural intuition that makes you think that I'm going to announce it if I announce it. And I reckon there's a bunch of people and it's been including myself previously, which is using the content filter constantly, which is like how does this look through the fucking theme? What do they call it? What's up Jay? Jay Z attic? No, not aesthetic, like the your Instagram has a certain? Yeah, no, not static, but it's like a layer. People use a certain term, which is like a theme. But it's like it has a certain mood.
And it needs a bit anyway, look and feel. Yeah, yeah.
No, actually, I think that, like, I'm sure you guys feel the same way is like, you can announce it. Sure. But when you just do it, yeah, you know, I mean, just just show up and do the word. You know, need to announce anything. People will will hear about it and find it and see it and go. Oh, that's interesting. It seems to be that he's doing this every week. And what we can figure that out. So yeah, I need to go. I'm going to commit to a weekly video. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, there it is all a part of story, because I've felt like I need to do that to then do the next thing. And if that is the story, I'm telling myself, and it's true, then I might as well just to the first thing, I mean, that I battle with, like, I thought that video I put out with shit. But it's like, the more I do the more my fucking brain is just like not not good enough. Not good enough.
It's not I mean, that's true of anything creative. Basically, I go through that. I feel like almost every day, everything I put out there, I'm like all that shit. Yeah,
you know, but there's also the other thing I realized is my identity, the things I attached to my identity. There's people who are doing those things at a much bigger scale, and they don't talk about it. So like me, like the thinking about like, I went to the gym three three times or I'm going to start doing the morning pages that speak to you and say, Yeah, like you just quietly mentioned you have to do in the morning pages. Um, I forget how long you been doing it boys are consistently for like four years. I think it's been about four years. I'm like, motherfucker. It's like here I am trying to like I like that's meant to be my fucking identity now and page just being low. What did I say low? Loki, Loki. Loki doing it for Silent
Well, I think that's the danger to me of comparison. Yeah, we will always compare ourselves to usually
we compare ourselves to people who are like on different trajectories or journeys will tell himself a different story. And sometimes it can cripple us and sometimes it can't like the classic one is. When we started our podcast, Jen and I listened to we all listen to it. We both listened to a bunch of gimlet media work.
Have you heard that Spotify might be acquiring them? Mr. 97 was slurring gimlet? Yes. didn't know that. Mr. Nice seven, just on the mic.
How much was it? That hundred mil
You know who Chris Sacca will be happy about that?
Damn, I know they can just download the podcasts for free.
There was always the
guy that was the gag that when Facebook acquired WhatsApp, the type guys the free download.
But how is that? Yeah, the stories we tell. But yeah, I was saying the comparisons to give it is like, we could be crippled by that and go well, the game of podcast is so crisp and so good. And so well done. And then listen to our one ago, it's nothing like it. So let's just not bother or let's tweak it. Let's think about it more. But it's like, it's not a fair comparison, because gimlet media have a different story. I've got a team of people, this is that thing that they do. And we I just, you know, a couple of freelancers that are doing this on the side of the other work that we do gronk
smack and some podcast.
It's true that this money company couple of gronk. And we've been talking about being the exception, because I think we we look to people in our field that at the top, yeah, they probably just the exception as well. You know, they might not. What what's the talent level? I don't know how much greater someone's talent level is then the next bloke who hasn't succeeded? Yeah. Yesterday, we're talking about celebrity chefs and celebrity psychologists. Are they the best in that? Probably not. They just have a different flavor. What do you think about being the exception, I think I think I would agree is like, there's there's probably a bunch of vets out there who are better than the Bon Iver. I think that was the example you use, but that aren't necessarily very defamatory if
they probably don't feel the need to or want to go down the path of being the vet that's on in the media. And I think that the same is true of a really good musician, or a really good writer or a really good podcast is there's a consistency in the way they show up and they do the work that you content on. But I think there's probably a little bit of luck. There's a little bit of timing is a little bit of the right conditions that all of a sudden makes them the person that people look to as the actual but there's probably people that will be I imagine people that are equally as qualified, skillful, talented, that are in the shadows and still still trying to show up and so I think I don't know if that
but what is the work do you think because I guess part of it. So for podcasting,
I had the idea of just double downing doubling down fighting, how
can we just start Gemma? Just right on the wall? The words you fuck up? That you need to now find the new word for the right word for
what? What's another way of saying doubling down?
focusing? Putting all my chips on this one thing? That
was pretty long as long it's too long. Now I'm hungry chips. Anyway.
It's also referring to poker, you know, the chips? No, say anything? No, the, what I what I was thinking is like, focusing on the podcast stuff. And then my initial thought was it means I don't need to be on social media don't need to be here don't need to be there. But is that part of the job? How do you define when approach when you're working on a project? Which is the the things that I need to do versus the stuff that you don't need to do? Yeah,
I come back to the question of what's it for, like, what is what is this for? And obviously, you have a fair idea of what the podcast is for and what the MTG surprised,
But if you have an idea of I know, you guys have an idea of what your podcast is for and what this work is for. And so then it to me, it's like all the superfluous stuff like social media doesn't serve that mission give so awesome, then yeah, maybe that is the work. If it's not, which I think is the general, the general rule is social media doesn't tend to serve us in the work that we do. As a general rule, we get distracted by it, we go on deep ramp, our rabbit holes that we go down. But if it's serving the purpose of the thing that you want to do, I think it's fine. And I actually think the social media work you've done recently on the daily talk show has been great. is
the one concern I have with it is that we're trying to appeal and connect with freelances, with people who are doing their own thing that want to connect in a bigger way. And if our hypothesis is that social media doesn't provide an authentic connection, and is it the equivalent of me giving, feeding my kids bad food, because I like it. That makes sense. So it's like, Emma, we're being on the platform. But if we actually don't think it's good for us, personally, I just I worry that maybe we should be looking at other other options. Yeah, that what's
the trade off? It's I think the it's a fair point because it's it's almost like saying yes to social media means you're saying no to something else. Yeah. So is this is the Have you got clarity on what you're saying no to?
Well, if I if I if I wrote a if I wrote I quit sugar. Yeah. And then I opened a lolly shop.
I didn't know it would feel like it would What do you think, TJ when we haven't spoke talking about this specific idea?
Well, I think social media affects your brain differently. To me, I think you're taking and the reason you've you're off is based on how it affects you.
Because everyone I follow it fucking dickhead.
The top debatable,
but I think it does, because Gemma didn't really phase last week talking about this didn't really faze her. I think some of the people who are probably some people are probably doing well, based on the fact that it doesn't faze them. Yeah. And they just next thing. Next thing. Next thing? Yeah. So then if that is a skill that you could develop, I don't know if you can, I don't know. You might be able to
Yeah, yes. knowing yourself and your interaction with it. Because I think you're right. If it if it serves you like really Gemma, I thought that was amazing that she was like, I'm not really fazed by that. Yeah, the other people want to feedback. And whereas most people I think, like I said the generalization is, it's not that healthy for us, because we have an obsession with it. But if you if you don't necessarily have that, I don't
think it's a good or could you had like I think even maybe to Gemma's point, maybe obsession is I can't maybe spending all the time on it is okay to write. What's been your relationship with social media? I,
I had a thought to retire. When I heard you announce. Speaking of announcements, when you announced your retirement on the podcast, I thought maybe that's something I should do. And so I've gradually, I think stepped away a little bit. Maybe stepped away as a long term. What I'm now looking at with social media is basically trying to use it a little bit like Seth uses it in that it's a place for me
to share the work that I'm doing your latest post on Instagram is that I put out the way we follow you. Is that your personal Instagram, or is that you work one, I think it's
smart, because you
got you got your really good, solid rig. But I've never seen Seth post a rig photo.
This is true. This is true. So I was going to say
Instagram is the one platform at the moment. I'm still using for that sort of thing. Yeah, Twitter, I almost deleted and then I thought a bit like you've been doing is like, what if I just posted the podcast and the blog there? Yeah, see what happens. nothing really happens. So I might delayed it. LinkedIn is a little bit the same Facebook. Honestly, the main reason I'm keeping it at the moment is Instagram and Facebook is we get people that listen to our podcast, reaching out saying I like this episode, and I share it. And I think that's really cool. So if I didn't have that, I would think about deleting it because it doesn't add a heap of value.
You're also in the thick of remote work. And doing that it feels like network tools are more important. Yeah. So if all the relationships that you're having people in New York or all over the world, there is an expectation where it's like, the only way that you're going to connect with those people is through these networks. Yeah. Yeah,
I think you're right. I think the like that frame that I can now tell myself, every time I jump on Instagram is like, Oh, it's just part of me that my work. How so you you've got slack for is. So old MBA has started again, how many people are doing MBA, I said, I started we've got three sessions, each session has about 115. Well, and so I'm head coaching one of the sessions, 115 students of which, so they split into cohorts of 20, basically five cohorts of 22. And two of those cohorts in the Australian time zone now, which is really cool. So we've got 44, I think Australian people in the Australian Thompson's Asia, Pacific, New Zealand, and
Australia. It's amazing. And so is Slack, the main tool that you guys use, so Slack,
and zoom is the sort of slack Skype but it works is sort of think of it. And then we have an open source, essentially blogging slash forum platform as well.
And how often is people sliding into your DMS in slack?
Quite often, like Slack, is the overwhelming slack is real at the moment for me, so, but it's where I do pretty much all of my communication and I don't really do much emailing in terms of my business, most of my businesses through client conversations with slack and we all tend to it's very central to slack.
Because TJ you've never had a job where you've really used slack
in a big way never ever it's it's a they're just succinct emails, which you see the effect from people coming from slack into businesses that don't use slack to then how they email interested is horrible. Really, so informal, or just
so many the training like instant messages, I send you a bunch
of email. Yeah.
Which is, which I think is
bit disrespectful in some ways, because it's like, I'm having to sort of sift through emails to find information. So I think yeah, I think emailing people in ages fucking chill out. If you're sending lots of emails, chill out, right? Yeah. Like, maybe don't send in compile it into one and then just cow. Yeah. Because then if it's a communication tool, how can you be the most specific or straightforward in the communication style? It's true that I
mean, having use like, a lot, a lot of people use it as like stream of consciousness. But that I think that's bad. So if you do that on email, that's, that's horrendous. I think,
what what does that do for people? I think, see that kind of stuff for me, builds anxiety, maybe the same way. Social media might just like going through it just thought, yeah, yeah. Having to sift through,
I think in the right context, it's actually quite helpful. So I think of because of the lot of the people that I coach, for example, are in like a remote they're based in America is I like, I encourage one of the channels I called whiteboard, usually, and I'm like, this is the virtual whiteboard. So literally stream of consciousness, go for it, just whatever. And I'll read it when I get time. And when I get access to slack, I'll look at it, but actually encouraged in the right context. Thinking Out Loud, on Slack, and I think a lot of people find it helpful to just just rise and get it out there.
How do you? Yeah, yeah.
How do you focus on tone when you're slacking people? Do you ever find that? When you're asking a question or giving thoughts it could be Miss read? Yeah,
I think it for me, it highlights the need to, to pause a little bit. So I try not to coach stream of consciousness. But I encourage creatives and people to think stream of consciousness. But if I'm going to ask them a question, I, I guess I sort of say it out loud to myself, would be probably one tactic that I would use. But yeah, there are times where it could be saying out of context, so I think coupling it with zoom. Yeah. And having an actual conversation with a person is really important. So it's not your only form of communication. Big emoji used to use emojis. Actually, I do.
I think a lot of fun too. Yeah. Want an audit, auto, audio, visual, visual, visual communicator? Yeah.
We don't really use it. And we've actually just started, we've got a goofy account now. And where we've got an account is the daily talk show goofy account. Can I expect a gift from Yeah, absolutely. We could do something if we could think of something funny visually, to do.
Pete looked over at me. And
what was I saying? based on
something you said, I don't know who find that below the fine. I did
give you a little
forgetting the fact that it's actually a video. Yeah,
well, I analyze them after each episode. So they'll be body language.
I can do it. It's a lot. Yeah. Yeah,
I've got worse as well. I think with them being now film is like, I can't sit. Listen. I don't want to hear like, I don't know, which is I think that's why the pace at which we're doing them. I think if we do want to wake would you like can we can we improve
it as is wide awake? And I often listen back and thank God, I could improve on this. Yes, it is a way to enhance skills of communication and listening. But every day would be a lot.
I don't actually know how to
how to manage the because part of it is if you listen, you can improve, right. But if you listen, you can also overthink. So maybe I think that what ends up happening is say Mr. 97, will be finding snippets. And just through that snippet finding, yeah, whatever it lands on, I'll like slowly be like, Oh, that was fucking weird, or I interrupted than there are then. So slowly build up a database, rather than the analysis. Like I feel like that's maybe a more natural way of listening to it, which is just dropping on a point and listening,
versus maybe hearing it from start to finish a lot more penny dropped moments in the first 100 episodes. Hundred and 50 episodes. Yeah, there is at the moment. Yeah,
in that episode, just to say that out loud, though, like 50 episodes? To 70. Yeah,
the amount actually is the growth, right? So the consistency of the five days is the difference. Like we would be listening to these other these two other dudes who have a podcast. And sometimes it sounds like they just saw emo and just like reflective. And just the reality is that one every week when every two weeks, and we get like that, but then we followed up with nothing like that for otherwise, that's
the weird thing is that that's the promise of set. So I sort of like it. I like it being able to hear like okay, this is we know that we're going to get this honest format style. Yeah, well, I think that the tricky thing with us is whenever I think about an episode back and I think then someone will email us or reach out on social media whatever it is, I'm I want those people thinking about these separate like these different episodes. I'm like this completely, like an international audience has no idea about into schools. Yeah. Like, local sort of foods and shit like that body that Mr.
97 is like a 97 year old man.
guy in the corner,
tech guru at 97.
So I think that that is interesting what I did here from Scott Adams who wrote Dilbert, or like did the illustration idea quirky, quirky fucker. I started he got he does a daily video thing on YouTube. Just talks to the camera. Yeah,
I read a book recently that Yeah, explained why Donald Trump won the election.
Oh, really? And it's always
a trained persuasive suede. Yeah, just
really, really? Yeah. Yeah.
And so yeah, it's gonna happen. And I'm super quirky dude loves having theories on everything that's done a Joe Rogan episode. And yeah, but he, he was just he's always it's very political at the moment. So I don't watch it as much. Yeah, I just can't be fact. But he, he was talking to Joe about being inconsistent in your product will actually be better for you. So an example would be if you've got like a really great restaurant, and then wanting team isn't that good meals? One, one, wanting 10 meals, isn't that good? You actually end up becoming more addicted to that experience. So like, I think about my favorite Mexican restaurant, and mom and dad and mixing Cantina, probably one out of 10 times, I'd be like, Oh, geez, the beef was too salty. That was always like this fucking great or whatever. But I recommend but they kept going back. Yeah. And so plays into it. So Scott Adams point is that the shit bits actually make a way more addictive than being good all the time. So he was sort of saying that Trumps
sort of thing being all over the place. And unpredictable nature is actually more addictive than say, interesting. Hillary Clinton, who was because he was consistent, polished all the time. It's interesting. I wonder if it's got something to do with the fact that like, as humans we can relate more to, or we respond more to when we see that someone has a flaw? Yeah.
And he's a human being and you're like, Oh, I can connect with that. Because I like I'm flawed, too. Yeah. It's actually like, it's one of the things I love about your podcast is flawed. This is not nobody's like you to you live and breathe and embrace. Look down the back. I
know, you actually I think you both do this really well, you embrace who you are question all. Whereas a lot of other content producers present a certain image of themselves. And this is why I think a lot of people don't like Instagram or Instagram celebrities are models. Because we project a certain image of ourselves first. You guys are like, Yeah, we got a bunch of really good thoughts and a really articulate in certain areas. But there's also a bunch of stuff that we're just talking about, you know, squeegees and I think that I think I relate to that. Yeah,
your lighting is great.
But I'd like to like the
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that it's probably part of the creating a medium or a system that allows for authenticity, which for us is daily. I can't fucking hide my flaws every day. It was once a week. I could bring a certain sort of element to it. Right. I could feel like I can just talk show everyone to be pumping up music and all that sort of shit. Yeah, but what have I just done? 1212 I managed to I can I keep myself. Hello, one two.
on standby. Hang on. We're still definitely recording. We can definitely I can still see. I mean, I can hear that. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Well, you were in the room.
Oh, my God. That's what I did. I press the solo button on that track. That was a nightmare.
I was literally it's like, in the writing is why shouldn't fucking touch but this is why I tried to resign he I was like, You know what, this is an opportunity. I'm gonna fucking Just do it.
But what I pressed was the solo button. So it's used TJ Did you have that in radio like this? Where you can you can basically listen to a track through your headphones, but it's not going out. And he said they've all crashed because they wouldn't have even heard it. I what I did was I like played some fucking music. Anyway. Yeah, just like that.
Everyone's hearing that now.
You see him just flailing?
The whole thing was that I would love to do the like, The Daily Show to everyone and I Happy Saturday. But that is an authentic I think, everybody I do it nearly every morning and 97 and TJ, I just like fucking I rolling as I'm like Testing, testing out the audio fits the quirkiness of the rest of you. Yeah, exactly. Like we all know, it's funny. Do you? Have you changed your tone or how you do the show what's been the learnings with the long and the short of it? I think
the probably the biggest learning is the value that you get from having those conversations and articulating thoughts that are unplanned and unscripted. Like it's a sort of thing that I think is valuable, even if no one was listening, is like having space and time to have a conversation with someone where you don't know what they're going to say. So you have to practice active listening, you have to listen. And then you have to to challenge yourself to come up with a question or an assertion or an idea to present back. So the learning for me is how transferable podcasting is into every other aspect of certainly my work is all a lot of my work is about listening is about asking questions is about thinking creatively. And that's literally what we do for 30 to 20 or 20 to 30 minutes, once a week. So I like that it's very transferable.
I find it a bit more powerful than writing in combination with writing really powerful, but just the, when I write I'm thinking and then thinking about what I've written, but it's all still just this dialogue in my head. Yeah, here's what I've said it. Yeah, like, yeah, I,
I told a story recently to a friend who and are saying, We don't really prepare, like we don't do, we don't have notes. We don't know what we're going to say. So I'm very much off the cuff. And he's like, Yeah, but also, you've both already done the work like you actually it's almost improvisation based on the things that you already know and think. And I was like, that's quite a cool way of thinking about it. It's like improv. Yeah.
Now I think the the thing that I struggle with is working out how much within a conversation delivering something like the reason that I deliver something and I feel like is to then create conversation to get the other people to think and to have thoughts. Not that you want to cover off this this Yes, but you're like, this could be a cool concept. Yeah. But what I worry about is that then, I guess the differences, like when people think about an interview, it's very much like, he's a question and deliver it. Were some most of my questions come in, like a random thought, which I think listening back can sometimes sound like, super fuckin self absorbed. Yeah,
but no, but I like it. Because I think the opposite of you know, those podcasts or interviews he listened to. And the person has a list of questions and won't deviate from that questions, even when the the person they're interviewing just had this great story to tell. And they like, got this jarring transition over here. Yeah,
it was more amazing. Some of those podcasts are in the Browse function.
podcast was like five.
I think that i think that that's, it's an appealing
to some people. And so like it has, it serves a purpose. I think if we think about like, the joint having a conversation and all that sort of stuff. I think it's slightly slightly different. It's a different form of podcast, right? Yeah. But part of it two ways. I feel like maybe sometimes I need to elevate myself like energy. Do you find that like in social situations do like I almost like Donna, not a persona or whatever. But I feel like I'm like, Hey, I have to go like a little bit like wacky and sometimes, like, I feel like TJ you pick up on it sometimes. Like why the fuck you being like that? Yeah.
You just surviving bro. See crying in the toilet? Yeah,
I definitely think so. But I definitely feel that there is something there not an act, but it's just like an energy that you meet. Yes. Other energy with? Yeah, it's required parties and stuff. So again, like I get in moments where I'm like, I don't want to talk. I don't want to have to be that guy. Just, I just want to be by myself with my family. You know, it's like, so I do feel that I think I've got more like that as I've got older.
I was thinking the same thing is as I get older, I find I have more of those moments where like, Oh, I could I could happily just stay at home tonight.
And booze helps and you haven't been a boozer? Josh, you literally just gives you that
you would much of a drinker pain. I would say I maybe similar to Tommy in that an alcoholic? I definitely know. I'm probably somewhere in between both of you. Yeah. And I'm finding less and less that I drink and yeah, more and more. I would rather sit at home and read a book or watch a documentary or something to be
quiet. What are you writing at the moment? At the moment? Yeah,
Stephen King. Yeah, no, I'm I'm reading a book by Dan pink. Which Seth actually recommended and it's cold. I've completely forgotten. It's cold.
He wrote Dr. He wrote draw, as in the movie Dr.
Now it was a there's a book called gronk. Yeah, it's something like
something to do with everybody is a salesperson or to sell is human. That's what it's called. Okay. Yeah, yes. And it's the premise is very much as you can imagine, is like, Pete, the salesman have a bad rep. The idea of being a salesperson, and he has a bunch of research that basically proves that we're all salespeople. It is one of those books that once you get you get the joke. Yeah. I feel like I don't even finish the book. So I'm I get it. We're all salespeople. What's the biggest
technique, though, that you can take out of it
from the book? Yeah, I think. I mean, it emphasizes things that I'd already thought which is to be a genuine, curious, empathetic human. That's the best sales technique is don't have an agenda. Don't force sales on people. Just be curious and ask questions and empathize with other people. And if you can, if they think you can help them solve a problem, I will buy from you
if I don't think you can help solve the problem. I will not buy from if you're into network marketing, not the book for you. Yeah.
Growth Hacking? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
White boarding sales and
why you're the tech sky. So you'll have whiteboards done that have you noticed that they're always in front of the whiteboard? Would you like something but it's white boarding has has got a brand problem because of all these marketers and now like if I see a video on LinkedIn and they've got a whiteboard like these fact I
really love white boarding so now I'm starting to question whether
it is a lot of white borders. It looks the action of it looks at you doing something Yeah, exactly. Getting shit done. finals drawing fun. Yeah, that's
why I like it. So
maybe you are actually doing something and getting stuff done. Like there's a lot of people that are
Thanks for coming on the show. What do you think of the video experience?
It was fun. It was it was different. I actually had to check myself this morning. Make sure you know I didn't have something my teeth. Yeah, just the fact I should have told you you
know, I enjoyed it. I don't know whether I'll watch myself back. You'll get a bit nervous but
I'm just looking forward to my fuck up because that was whenever I get like a genuine panic. Any genuine panic. I get hot. I wasn't actually sweating. Sweat out. No, no,
no sweat. I'm looking forward to actually I'm gonna watch it back because I want to say when I gave you the window when Josh said something I
didn't he walked off. I don't know.
Google human periscope if you want to see what Pete's up to,
she said he's noodle. I mean.
He's noodles. All of these noodles noodles. Because Polish shipping every time we I google it. I am a the fuck up the spelling for won the shoe store. Yeah, that's what TJ was saying. It's Melvin. We can work on. We can work on SEO with you. Absolutely. So daily talk show. Hi, the daily talk show.com if you want to send us an email, otherwise, we'll say tomorrow. Hey guys, I got thanks.