EmmyLou Loves Her Tribe

Emmylou: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 429.

Tommy: Emmylou is in the building. Woo!

Emmylou: What a killer number.

Josh: I know.

Tommy: You gotta fucking clap it in, mate. Emmylou, we've got you on to talk extensively about skydiving for the next hour.

Emmylou: Oh God, it's been a while since I've done that, so—

Tommy: I was just telling the boys that you used to skydive.

Emmylou: Yes, yes, I used to skydive a lot.

Tommy: I mean, when I first met you, that's what I found out. And I was like, oh, she's crazy. Like, I mean, I skydive strapped to some poor bastard, but you were doing it solo back in the day, weren't you?

Emmylou: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It takes a little while to get to that solo point. But yeah, my first skydive was on my own. I had two instructors holding onto my own rig though. So you do a course and you get your A license.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Emmylou: It's all awesome.

Tommy: Well, you got to have— I was going to say balls. You don't have balls. You got to have some bollocks to do something like that. And we're not going to talk about skydiving for the next hour. That was a joke. If you actually thought that we did—

Emmylou: It's your show, mate. You're wearing the hoodie. You can talk about whatever the hell you want.

Josh: So people might— well, people would know you. Emmy Lou Loves, like, that's, that's your brand. That's, that's where you're pushing video content. You sell your— like, the clothing that you sell is outrageous in regards to like the, the cut through in like you being on the street and actually seeing people wearing it and stuff.

Emmylou: It's absolutely incredible. It's such a thrill. But do you know, I love seeing women on the street with the clothes. I actually fangirl over it. But I think what I love the most is when I get those messages saying, hey, I wore your dress or I wore your jacket to a party. Someone else actually was wearing it too. She came up. We were so excited. We got photos, we got chatting. And, you know, not often you hear about women being excited about twinning, you know, in the same outfit, whereas it is just a phenomenon. They absolutely love it. Or the other thing is someone will recognise them. Is that an Emmylou Loves hoodie? Yep. And then they start chatting at checkout, chicks, the whole lot. It's just amazing. And it's creating this community and starting conversations and connections that would never have happened.

Tommy: What about if you're with your bestie and they've— you rock up and you're wearing the same thing? Is that still annoying? Or is that— I mean, is it just your clothing that it's actually a win? So then you've turned something that was once annoying into a win.

Emmylou: Well, I've never found it annoying at all. And I know some people might, but I think that's just that maybe, you know, they're feeling a little a little bit insecure or whatever at the time, but it's definitely a win when it comes to my clothes.

Tommy: I mean, I've been trying to get him out of that.

Emmylou: You guys are twinning, you tell me.

Josh: Are you annoyed?

Tommy: I'm pissed.

Josh: Who had the backwards hat on first?

Tommy: Today, you did today.

Josh: No, no, no, you can have it.

Tommy: That's fine.

Emmylou: No, it looks good. Don't you mess up the hair and shit. Just leave it.

Josh: On your website, you talk about your tribe. How important has that been as part of the everything that you're doing.

Emmylou: The community and the tribe are the key to everything. And that doesn't just mean the cut through and maybe the success that you see or you measure with what I'm doing. The tribe is everything to them.

Josh: Yeah.

Emmylou: You know what I mean? They are feeling a part of something. And that's, you know, I'm obsessed with my phone. I've got two phones. You know, I've got a burner phone and normal phone. I'm obsessed with it. I'm on my phone all the time. I love it.

Josh: Are they different phones? You have Android and iPhone or are they two iPhones?

Tommy: Two iPhones?

Emmylou: No, they're iPhones. Jesus.

Tommy: Are you running the same Apple account on both or two Apple accounts?

Emmylou: No, I've got two different numbers. I try and do the same apps on both.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: That's a model.

Josh: I mean, because I like this idea.

Emmylou: Yeah.

Tommy: Like, you don't need two phones.

Emmylou: I know I sound gangster right now, but the reality is one's just so my kids can watch YouTube.

Tommy: I mean, you had two phones at once because you got into a plan.

Josh: I went into like an Optus plan or whatever. And then I was the service was annoying me and I wanted the new phone. I ended up— so before you know it, I had two phones.

Tommy: You got upsold.

Josh: But the thing was that I wasn't using it. I was never— I never had them at the same time and was like, bang, bang.

Emmylou: Well, what's happened is I should have probably said, okay, this is my personal phone and then this is my business phone. But I didn't. I just started calling people from all these different— now everyone's got both phones. I can't live without both of them. There's no rhyme or reason. There's literally no logic behind them. But what I was getting at was that I love my phone. I'm addicted to my phone. Love it. But the more we sort of delve into our phones, the more we use it, the more we use social media, we actually miss and yearn human connection, right? And that's the thing. We're going back to the community and the tribe. That's been the amazing thing. Do you know what I mean? Is that we are all feeling connected and we're coming out to these events and I'm encouraging them to get out, or I'm encouraging them to say, hey, oh my God, is that Emmylou Loves Hoodie? You know, that takes a lot of balls for some people to say that.

Josh: Yeah, definitely.

Emmylou: It doesn't always happen. I had a guy, he was at a DFO and he was serving coffee to somebody and had said, you're wearing the Emmylou— now a male, like saying, you know, you're wearing the Emmylou Loves jumpsuit, you look amazing in it. But just that lady was so wrapped.

Josh: Yeah.

Emmylou: And so was the guy, do you know what I mean? And they both messaged me the separate stories. They didn't realize. And they were just wanting to say, hey, you know, this happened to me today. And I felt amazing.

Josh: Yeah. I think if Tommy and if this happened to Tommy and I, we're a couple of narcissists already. I don't know if we'd cope. I think it'd be too much. I think my ears would be ringing and I'd have tears in my eyes.

Emmylou: What's wrong with being a narcissist?

Josh: We all need a little bit of that.

Tommy: When I first met you, Emmy Lou, through a mutual friend, Charlotte, I remember her telling me, she's like, you've got to look at Emmy Lou's Insta. It's, I can't stop looking at the stories. And she's like, I'm addicted. She's going to be the next big thing.

Emmylou: Oh my God, did you really say that?

Tommy: She really said that to me. And so then I got on the Emmylou Insta storey bandwagon. I mean, you've been doing the Gary Vee 100 pieces of content a day for the last year and a half, I reckon. How many pieces?

Emmylou: 3.

Tommy: How many pieces of content are you putting out a day? Like if you were to cut up the story, I know you probably film a long storey and then whack it in.

Emmylou: Yeah, no, you know, I don't actually measure in terms of how much content. It's actually just what's going on in my life. So, you know, if I'm cooking for a party and there are 4 or 5 recipes recipes that I'm gonna do, or I'm actually cooking for my kids' birthday party, they're all gonna land on there if I've filmed it, you know, if my kid wants to film me doing it, you know, or whatever. So it really, it's not about how much I'm doing a day, it's just what's going on in my life. And if we can get that up on there, because it's very important to me, it's kind of real life. We don't go, oh, this would make some great content, let's film that, let's get you over there. You know, it's very much like, hey, let's go. Hey, I'm about to walk out the door, can you press record? Thanks.

Tommy: I mean, cooking for your kids, you make it look like it's a full-blown dinner party. I wish I had you cooking for my kids and me being on the reception.

Emmylou: I'm over any time because, you know, they don't eat it. So, um, classic kids, they're the best. Have you not heard Vita? She'll watch me on a live. She'll be on the other side of the phone and all you'll hear is my little 4-year-old's voice. That's disgusting. It's fucking Portuguese chicken. Gone absolutely nuts. You know, there's hundreds of people in the live. Oh my God, this is amazing. Are you going to post the recipe? And then you've got, that's disgusting.

Josh: What do your kids like? What do they like to eat? Rice balls. Yeah. Like every kid.

Tommy: Chicken nuggets.

Emmylou: No, I don't even think they'll eat chicken. Yeah. I mean, but they do eat it.

Josh: Yeah.

Emmylou: But they do that weird thing where they'll eat it once. I remember I made the mac and cheese. They loved it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Emmylou: So then I made a double batch the next week. Y'all, nah, I got you. Didn't touch it. It was exactly the same.

Tommy: They're onto you.

Josh: Mac and cheese. That's very upsetting because it is, isn't it?

Emmylou: It's like a fucking mac and cheese. Eat it.

Josh: They don't know what's good, do they?

Tommy: Starting anywhere, like Josh and I were talking about lives and doing a live and you've—

Josh: A live event, is that what you're talking about?

Tommy: No, doing an Insta Live, sorry. I think you started doing, I mean, I saw more Insta Lives from you than anyone I'd ever followed, right? And so it's like you jumped onto that. But the thing about an Insta Live when you've got one person, Josh called it, it's just a FaceTime call.

Josh: There was a moment where I was watching a live the other day and I just popped in and it said one and hold. I was like, fuck, I can't leave now because I feel too guilty.

Tommy: You're on a FaceTime. But what was that like starting? Because everyone starts with one person alive at the time.

Emmylou: Yeah, I think I started, I think I had maybe 1,000 followers at the time. And you know, for me it was really about practicing. And I remember saying that, hey, I'm going live tonight. We've got 6 weeks to go before I'm going to host my first event. So I'm going live every single Wednesday, late night lives. We're going to talk about shit. We're just going to get it done. And it was really about showing up. And then from there you start to practise this sort of act of selflessness. It really doesn't matter how many people are there. It really doesn't.

Josh: Yeah.

Emmylou: Because what you're saying is gold. If you truly believe in what you're saying, it doesn't matter if you're talking about a Portuguese chicken or if you're talking about life or relationships or whatever, you know, those two people, that one person, they mean just as much as 500 people, 600 people. And so the passion has never left and the passion was always there. And I think that's why became— it's become such an important part of who I am. And also it's so important to the fans as well and to the community. Hey, when are you going to jump on and do a live? They love that. Yeah, it's real life.

Josh: Does having a bigger audience change the type of content, do you think, that you make?

Emmylou: No, not for me, it doesn't. I understand how that can change. For me, it's, you know, because I've sort of tried to sit as much as I can in that driver's seat with regards to being the executive producer on the TV show, like, you know, making sure that I'm creating merchandise so that I don't have to dilute, you know, my socials with, you know, stuff that doesn't align. So for me, the growth, it hasn't changed at all. The only thing is that my thumb gets really sore because the DMs go crazy. I've always had a lot of DMs. I've always had a lot of engagement and I've always been quite available to that. And right now, you know, I'm trying to work out how can we sustain that because literally replying— so say I get around 300 to 400 DMs a day, I'll reply to around 150 to 200 a day.

Tommy: Boys, take note.

Josh: Yeah, we were crumbling at 6 the other day.

Emmylou: It's full on, you know, and then, and they're very short and sharp answers. We're not talking long-winded stuff here. And then, and I'll be quite brutal and go, hey mate, I can't, you know, I can't give you that recipe right now. It's, I literally just cooked it. It's up on stories. Press rewind, go watch it. Or, you know, because there's a lot of that as well. Can you let me know the recipe? Can you let me know the shoes? You're actually replying to the storey where the shoes are tagged. But, you know, and you just let them know. And people are really understanding about that as as well.

Tommy: Behind the scenes, I remember you telling me when we first met just around you wanted to do TV presenting. And I remember we've spoken a couple of times. We spoke on the phone about it. What do you have? Like, I think that's like a destination to land, right? Which gives you the inspiration to start. What about for people that feel like they've got nothing to say? You know, that I don't— I want to do what Emmylou does, but I don't feel like I have anything to say.

Emmylou: Okay, so take a step back. They want to do what I do in terms of presenting or just in terms of showing up on the Insta or?

Tommy: Yeah, Insta, connecting with people, creating a tribe, but then they're sort of feeling that crippled because I'm in a bit of a similar situation to you. I started wanting to be a presenter, which I wasn't end up, it wasn't where I ended up landing. I ended up doing radio and stuff like that, but it gave me a reason to start. And even though I felt like sometimes I don't have anything to say, I had this mechanism, which is like, try and be a TV presenter, you know, do some scripts and create little stories. So it actually got me to finding that creative thing that I love.

Emmylou: Almost finding that purpose.

Tommy: Exactly. But I think a lot of people get crippled by, I've got nothing to say, but I kind of want to be, you know, putting myself out there.

Emmylou: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think it's kind of similar to— fucking hard question actually, Tommy. Jesus. I mean, just Friday afternoon, mate.

Tommy: Well, did you maybe just make it, make it for yourself? Did you?

Emmylou: Yeah, I think with goal setting, work backwards. Okay, so, so realistically, you've got nothing to say, you know, but you want to be out there saying it. Work backwards from that. Why do you want to be out there saying it? What's that first? What does that mean to you? Why is that? And then, you know, maybe there's something that's driven you. Maybe it's just a childhood dream. Maybe there's something that you're trying to prove to someone in particular. And that takes brutal honesty, right? But you got to kind of work backwards from there and go, okay, why am I doing that first? And why does it mean so much to me? So really, um, teasing out those particular whys first, then maybe somewhere in there you're going to start to land on a particular purpose or a particular reason. And then again, you tease out that reason. Well, why did I want to prove myself to my mum, my dad, my ex-boyfriend? Why, why does that mean so much to me? Again, tease it out again, work backwards from that. You know, you're talking about starting from scratch there. So that's going to take a little bit of unpacking. And the thing with that is I just don't think you need to be afraid of that. Don't be afraid to unpack that shit. And don't be afraid if you don't come up with the answer straight away. No one fucking knows this shit. We're not the Dalai Lama.

Josh: Does the why change? Does the why change?

Emmylou: The why fucking changes every day. Like I'm a woman. I change my shit every single day.

Josh: What was the why at the beginning and what is it now?

Emmylou: Yeah. For me? Yeah. The why was definitely because I felt I could entertain. I felt I could communicate, I could tell storeys and I could do it in an entertaining way that people would digest. That was definitely always the why. Like, I can do this. I don't know. I don't know particularly why. I don't know if that's what everyone else is going to think. But I know that when I do it, it makes me really happy, you know? So that was that, that particular why. Now, that did change because all of a sudden I started to see something. Thing, you know, inspiration in people and, and the connection with people and the fact that there was that related relatability, I guess. But then it changed again because, uh, and I think that this is really important, you could go one way and you could go, fuck, I'm inspirational, man. Yeah, you know, like, people are inspired by me. No, they're actually not. Yeah, they're inspired by themselves. They're inspired by what they see in you that reflects back to them. Now that shit is the cool stuff. Yeah. And that's the stuff that now I feel more driven to remind people, hey, I'm not the inspiring one here.

Tommy: You are.

Emmylou: Yeah, you can see it. Inspired people get inspired.

Tommy: Well, people—

Emmylou: does that make sense?

Tommy: People don't change people. People change themselves.

Emmylou: Yeah. And that's what I want to remind people. I'm just here like a little beacon, like, you know, a little cheerleader for you. But, but it's actually you that is going to do the work.

Josh: And it's so sustainable looking at it that way, right? Because otherwise, if you do it the other way, if it's you, It's too much fucking pressure.

Tommy: Yeah.

Emmylou: Yeah. And I'm, you know, and I don't want that for them.

Josh: Yeah.

Emmylou: You know, because at any time Instagram could be gone. If I'm, if I'm gone, what have you got left? You've got to really see in yourself what ignites you to get going and get motivated. Might be only one little thing and that's okay. Just build on that.

Josh: Yeah. I mean, so your Emmy Lou Loves is on Community TV as well as on YouTube. Is that right?

Emmylou: Yeah. So it's on Community TV and it's on YouTube and Facebook, but as of the last couple weeks, it's on Channel 10 Peach.

Josh: Oh, amazing.

Emmylou: Wicked.

Josh: That's so good.

Tommy: Peach.

Emmylou: Peach is fucking cool, man. Like, that's where all the cool shows are.

Tommy: I'm getting a TV soon, guys.

Josh: He literally doesn't have a TV.

Tommy: I haven't had a TV for 3 years, 4 years.

Emmylou: Oh my God.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But I mean, that's, I guess the interesting thing is about your approach is I remember working on community TV years and years and years ago. And what I love about what you've done is you're not necessarily a school of the community TV industry. That's just a platform for you to do what you do great, but you'll put it anywhere. And I think that that's the key is some people watch it on YouTube, other people are consuming on Facebook, and I even find I'm interchanging between wherever I am. I'm like, oh, like on a Sunday night I'll see on like an Insta story. Yep. Emmy Lou Loves is, you know, on YouTube or whatever. I switch on to that.

Emmylou: Yeah, it's that dual viewing behaviour and we all have it. I mean, like, I nowadays, I put on a movie just to purely scroll on my phone. It's like, oh, what do I feel like watching today? Oh, you know, I'll put on like Town with Ben Affleck. I love Heat. I love Michael Mann movies. Like really dark machika. And I love it blaring while I'm just quietly scrolling Pinterest.

Tommy: So true.

Josh: Well, I was doing that the other night. Bri and I were watching The Bachelor. But the annoying thing is—

Tommy: We know, mate.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Horrible content.

Josh: Yeah, I'm sorry about that. But the thing is, where I was seeing that fall apart was Bri was actually consuming it and I've just got Instagram videos on full volume. It drives her absolutely mad.

Emmylou: Yeah, I use the AirPods. Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, left selfish.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Think about your partner, mate.

Josh: And so when it comes to product and content, Do you see content as something that we should be monetizing, or do we need to make money off content, or is that really just a mechanism to sell a product?

Emmylou: Oh goodness, uh, you know what, I think it really depends on who you are and what your brand is and who your audience is. That's what we need to really be listening to. What does your audience actually want? How do they digest you and your content, all the products that you're selling, or whatever it is? So, you know, you don't have to make any excuses about what you're doing out there to make a living at all. You just have to be really, again, coming back to that brutal honesty about are you doing it with your audience in mind? Because I know, you know, for the last 3 years I've held out on a lot of stuff because the first person that comes to my mind, like obviously there's my family, but it's my community. What do they need? So, you know, when someone offers me a heap of product and like, we're gonna deck you out, you know, with all of your stuff, and it's like, uh, How's that going to help my community? Yeah. How is me, you know, rocking around in the best kitchen, whatever, how's that going to help them?

Josh: Does it fuck with the brands? Are they like a bit floored by it?

Emmylou: Yeah, you know, it's been a lonely little time, but they're cottoning on now. Like, you know, and the thing is, that was okay. That I, you know, at no point do I take offence to that because they're just doing again what's best for them and what they think their audience wants.

Tommy: Yeah, of course.

Emmylou: So we're really, you know, you're making sure you're aligning with what what you're getting back in your community.

Tommy: Well, saying no, a lot of people have fear of saying no because they think that then they won't have another opportunity.

Emmylou: Yeah. And you got to be like, that's the thing. You got to throw it all away. You know, it's like skydiving, right? You exit that aircraft and you are all in. And for me, that's how it is with Emmy Lou Loves brand. It's like, well, you know what? And I had, you know, my parents questioned me, Jesus, when are you going to make money out of this, Lou? You know, like, and it was, it really got to that real sticky end. I remember last year, sort of mid-last year, around this time last year, I had that awkward phone call, you know, uh, from, from my parents. It's going well, but Jesus, Lou, like, come on. And it's like, no, you know, because I, I know what we're doing here.

Josh: How did you take it? I mean, yeah, how do you take it? Because I guess that, um, there's a lot of awesome, amazing things out there that don't make cash. Did you always know that there was going to be, uh, even not even, I guess like what people might miss with all of this is like it's not even a fuck tonne of money. I guess you probably just want to keep sustaining and being able to do what you do.

Emmylou: I wanted to sustain the TV show. So, so that's where my, um, I guess the way that I approached when, when I got approached for maybe sponsored content and stuff like that, you know, at first it's like, oh wow, someone, you know, values my my community and values my voice. You know, only took probably, I think, 2 posts to realize, no, they don't care at all. Like, do you know what I mean? And I really realised that I wanted to organise a meetup because I'd done this sponsored content. I thought this is what it was all about. Hey, you know, my community wants me. They didn't care about this. The post had gone out. We're done. I was like, oh, okay, is this how it works? And so that's where it literally only took 2. And then I was like, okay, you want to be a part of this? Then there's the TV show. There's my projects that need to be funded, and we need a full 360-degree view of how, you know, my audience works. So you want to come on board with Emily Loves in my community, then we need to have it all going all at once. And I won't charge, like, you know, I won't make a lot of money out of this. I don't care. It's what I want. And I really stuck to that. And I think that's where the merchandise started to come on board because I was like, okay, that can sustain me and that can be something that is sold but not sold with that obligation to my audience to buy. You know, you want a dress, you buy it. You won't buy it because it's like, oh, I feel bad, I better get it for her. She's, you know, like, she's— it's not like that. It's if you like the dress, you buy it. And, you know, as women, we're ruthless. We like it, we'll get it, and we'll sell our firstborn for it. Um, but, you know, and, and it felt like a nice way to be able to do it and sustain the other creative projects and all the content that I love to push out every single day.

Josh: And is that— is it about saying, okay, these are the things I'm drawing a circle around, this, this is what's going to free always?

Emmylou: Do you think about it that way, or, uh, no, no, no, actually, to be honest, no, I, I don't think about what's going to be free and what's going to be paid. I really just take every opportunity and go, okay, what does this look like entertainment-wise? What does it look like, um, community-wise? How does it sit, you know? And then most importantly, how does it align with me? Do I enjoy it? Do I love the product? You know, I think with, with, um, Vu, who is our one of our, you know, sponsors for this for the show, like it took me 12 weeks. Like I've used their product for 12 weeks, you know, and then, and looked around and, you know, made fun of it being on the bottom shelf and dusted it off. And, you know, they actually bring that up because, you know, and said, God, we saw that someone showed us that.

Josh: Yeah.

Emmylou: And we're like, we've got to get this girl. Totally bagging our product, but absolutely loving it. You know what I mean?

Tommy: That's great. It's, it's, it's real, I think. You put out so much content and I feel like you share a lot. Is there anything you don't share?

Emmylou: Uh, I think the one thing I don't share and people don't, I don't think they pick up on it, is, um, I don't actually share a lot of the kids. So the kids are there, you know, I've got kids screaming in the background, but when I am playing with them, hanging out with them, doing stuff, you don't actually see any of that. Uh, that's, you know, because I'm actually doing it. So that, that's my time. Uh, apart from that, I'll just share whenever the Whenever I feel like I want to and if I've got time.

Tommy: Have you pulled back on anything? Like you shared a little bit more and then you've pulled back. I know you've shared about your partner and the relationship.

Emmylou: Yeah. Yeah. The only time I'll pull back is if we're right in the middle, right amongst it. Do you know what I mean? Because no one can figure out their shit when they're right in the middle of it. You can't dig your way out of that. But once you're out of it, you can say, Jesus, I was standing in a pile of shit.

Tommy: That was fucking crazy. I mean, a breakup on Insta Live would be pretty— I'd watch it. Yeah. From the outside though.

Josh: I mean, the thing is that if we're feeling revved up about something, you don't go and have the conversation straight away, let alone creating fucking content for an audience.

Emmylou: And I think that's where it comes back to that selflessness as well. You don't get on and have a rant. You go and have a think about it. You know, you actually live through that experience first. And if there is something that you've learned about it, you can share that. You don't have to share the whole story. And the other thing that, you know, I try not to share any storeys that aren't about me as such. You know, you know, I make sure that they're real, like they're actually my storeys to share.

Josh: And the, um, the authenticity piece— is there a separation between you as a person and what you're sharing from a content point of view?

Emmylou: Like as in a personality type?

Josh: Well, yeah. So the reason I think about it is because if you're giving your all and yourself all the time, there's, um you're removing all barriers, which means it can be super awesome, but it means that things like external forces, like an audience disagreeing with something, could actually really hurt. Is there mechanism so that you make sure that that energy that you're putting in is to good use and it doesn't actually reflect on you negatively?

Emmylou: God, I'd like to say that, you know, that happens, and, and I think I'm only just getting to that point because it's just that Almost like balance doesn't really exist. And you know, and you don't realise that until you're out of balance. And then that's when you realize, hey, I am not reserving. I don't have any self-preservation right now. I've got nothing left in the tank. And then you start to look back and go, okay, how can I change this around a little bit? How can I make sure that my family are my priority and things like that? And hey, I've gone through that stage where I've been that asshole and they haven't been the priority. And I had to really take a look at myself. And I was scared too, like, shit, is it too late? You know, my oldest is 8 years old. I'm like, I fucked it, he's gone, you know. And, but it's never too late, right? And it was only, it was probably like a really intense 6-month period where there was a sort of a big growth, but then also that stress of like, there was a growth in the profile, maybe not a growth in finances and how that was working as a business. And I was really stretched and oh mate, did the family feel it.. And then when I came out of that again, when I was on the outside of that, I was like, Jesus, if I don't do something soon, these kids are going to think that they're not my number one priority when really ultimately I want to do everything for them. And so that had to really, really shift. And it had to— I mean, I don't think it changed on who I am on socials. I don't think it changes, you know, who I push out, like in terms of content, because that's just me. You're never going to change me. I'm just who I am, whether you've got a phone or a camera in my face. It's the same. I probably just swear a little less when there's a, like a—

Josh: When the camera's there.

Emmylou: I swear just a tad less.

Tommy: It's awareness, right? And sometimes you have to push those boundaries to even understand the awareness for something.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: You know, so that thing happening, what was the moment, say, if you know, the thing with kids and priority, what's the moment?

Emmylou: Is that like a, You know, oh God, I think, uh, you know, and people do have breakthrough moments. I can't say I've had— I don't get full breakthroughs. I get these mini ones, these mini little like pokes, and I'm like, uh, that's uncomfortable, but you kind of ignore it as well. And because you're still busy, you're still driven, and you're still in, you know, a bit of an asshole mood— or mode, should I say, not mood. So you're still kind of driven, you think, no, no, keep going, keep going. And then all of a sudden they start to stack up, and then you're like, fuck, that's not a poke, that's sore, you know. And you realize, okay, that's been been hitting at me for the last 6 months and I haven't seen it. And then I think there was, you know, one particular thing where I was kind of scared to come home. I was not scared to come home, but I felt flat coming home because I felt like that my family hadn't missed me while I was away and that I actually was better off out doing stuff. And that's when I realized, no, no, mate, no kid I know, you know, doesn't miss them. You know what I mean?

Josh: Like, they're following it on Instagram as well, so they say, yeah, they're seeing a lot of it.

Tommy: No, no, they know you're in the car front.

Emmylou: Eating the Hungry Jack's.

Tommy: They want some Hungry Jack's.

Emmylou: I would never do that. I don't litter.

Tommy: You went to Mecca Island? Necker. It is the Mecca at Necker. How did you get to go to Necker Island?

Josh: So that's Richard Branson's island?

Emmylou: It is Richard Branson's island. So it was part of a leadership programme for business chicks.

Josh: Amazing.

Emmylou: Yeah.

Tommy: What's it like there?

Emmylou: You know what? It took 2 days of full-on travel to get there. So for 4 days that I was there, I felt like I'd just come out of Revolver. I've been on a 2-day bender. So it was, it was fantastic. It was a tropical island. Obviously Richard Branson's there. It's quite surreal. I must admit it was one of those ones where I didn't feel 100% comfortable. You know, you're on a really rich man's island. He is awesome. And but it, it rocked me. It kind of rocked me. And I couldn't work out, okay, why am I here? What am I doing? I knew I was interviewing him, of course. But it—

Josh: yeah, it was an imposter syndrome or—

Emmylou: yeah, you know what, I'd never had that before. But I did wonder, is this what this imposter syndrome is all about? It's not that I didn't feel I didn't deserve to be there. And, you know, you pay money to be there and be part of the program. I did feel, however, that I had put a lot of high hopes on that interview with Richard. So I felt, you know, I've put a lot of high hopes on that. I'm going to interview Richard Branson. Boom, my profile is going to go crazy. And you know what happened afterwards? I was so angry at myself. The interview was amazing. He was fantastic. All went well. But then I thought, why the fuck would you put your own personal value and how well you can do in your life on the person that you're interviewing?

Josh: Yeah.

Emmylou: Do you know what I mean? Like, no, you're going, you're going great guns as it is. And that's, that's, that's where I did feel very uncomfortable and a little disappointed in myself. Like, why would you do that and set the standard for yourself that enabling someone else to dictate where you're going to go?

Josh: Do you think that your community cared about it as much as you cared?

Emmylou: Uh, about the interview as such?

Josh: Like, were you looking at from a community? I wonder, because I guess, um, you're someone who cares so much about their tribe and their community, it sounds like maybe part of the disconnect was it was a moment of the self and that rather than community.

Emmylou: And you know, oh, this is going to really ignite, like, what's it going to do? You know what I mean? I wasn't even allowed to have audio on it. I couldn't do nothing.

Josh: Did you say no audio? I wasn't allowed to take a fucking photo.

Emmylou: Yeah. So I'm like, it was, you know, but at the same time there was obvious amazing learnings and also that, that sort of self-confidence I can interview Richard Branson and do all right, you know. And it was a very intimate environment, which you guys know that's almost harder to do. Those, those types of interviews when you're just in front of like 25 people in his lounge room. Alyssa Milano's over there. You got Mark Manson. You know, it's, it's pretty crazy, right? And I did really well. And he came up even the next day and he was like, you did really well. I really enjoyed that. You know, I had him laughing and didn't take it all too seriously. I mean, he was talking about launching into space, for God's sake.

Tommy: Confidence is contagious. Did you bring that? I mean, was he feeling that? I mean, I think you've got an energy about you and that's what, and that's you, right? So you're just amplifying yourself. You be you and that's when you've got a chance to connect and you probably connected with him.

Emmylou: Exactly. Yeah. And also it didn't matter. It doesn't matter. Just like we were talking about the live, it doesn't matter if there's one person or 800 people, right? Everyone has that right to connect. So it doesn't matter if I'm interviewing Richard Branson or or, you know, someone that's just from down the street.

Josh: It doesn't matter, you know, you bring the same energy. Exactly.

Emmylou: Always, always.

Josh: So this time last year, you're on the phone to your parents. How did you, how did you take that call?

Tommy: Did you hang up?

Emmylou: No, no, no. You know, again, I think it's really important not to be driven by the ego, because if you were driven by the ego of it, you'd be like, oh God, you know, they're putting me down, they don't believe in me. And, you know, straight away, that's the first thing that people always say. Yeah, they don't believe believe in me. No, actually, you don't believe in yourself and you're just attaching to one thing that they've said. They just care about you. They just care about you. They care about your kids. They're wanting to know, are you stretching too much? Are you burning the candles at both ends? That's all that's happening. Again, it comes back to that going backwards, like starting from the backwards.

Josh: Is that the first thought though? Because that's pretty, that's a conscious mindset to be into.

Emmylou: Yeah, it's your parents. Like I'm 40 years old, I've been dealing with those guys for like forever, my whole life. So for me, I was just like, it's all right, Dad, I got this.

Tommy: Yeah.

Emmylou: Can I borrow 10 grand?

Josh: I need to use this meteorologist. When they're your investors as well, you've got to—

Emmylou: Yeah, it's like you've got to talk them off the ledge. It's all good. It's fine. Can we just beef that up a little?

Tommy: That's so great. Yeah. And so Josh, you're saying that that is— that takes a level of awareness in a moment to think like that. I mean, I'd be reactive. My mum said to me like, you got doing what you're doing. Anyway, because what she sees is this. She's probably watching now. Hi, Mum. But she— so you can't blame people around us, creatives that sort of have this outward thing that sort of entertains and informs and educates and makes someone feel happy or whatever, because that's the product of this. But they don't need to understand. And I mean, a lot of our parents probably wouldn't understand this space because A lot of it isn't understood by us just yet, right? Exactly.

Emmylou: It's a really weird, you know, like there's, what do you mean it's on Facebook? Is it on, can I do it with the remote? No. You know, and so, you know, they've got an iPad so they can see it and they know, and even my mum, you know, she went out and bought an iPad because she wouldn't be able to watch it. You know, she lives in Bunbury. So, and when I heard that she wanted that, I was like, oh, I'll buy you an iPad, you know?

Tommy: And so was that her 10 grand money?

Josh: The 10K loan, you get a Free iPad as part of it.

Emmylou: Branded hoodie.

Josh: From the Daily Talk Show, of course. I'll give you a good deal on it.

Emmylou: And you know, and it was really cool. So they don't need to necessarily understand it. You know, all they want to do is feel proud and know that you're okay no matter what you're doing. You could be bricklaying and they just want to know you're safe and you're okay and you're being fed.

Josh: So what about negativity? How do you, um, like you hear, like, I feel like I was just watching online. The other day, someone sort of doing coaching and saying you need to cut the negativity out. You need to be very across who you're surrounding yourself with.

Emmylou: Yeah. Oh, that's a hard one because negativity can creep in. Sorry.

Tommy: Don't touch me.

Emmylou: Don't you fucking touch me. I've been playing footsie under the fucking table since we started.

Tommy: I'm lifting my leg up. I was in an awkward position.

Emmylou: Oh my God.

Tommy: My fault. My fault. Sorry.

Emmylou: I'm sorry.

Tommy: Sorry.

Emmylou: We're back.

Josh: I'm back.

Emmylou: What's the question?

Josh: The negativity. The negativity.

Emmylou: I'm fucking with you. So yeah, I think that's a hard one because it comes up when you least expect it.

Tommy: From the people that you don't expect it.

Emmylou: From the people that are like sitting right there, you know, sometimes. And that one can muck with your head.

Tommy: It stings.

Emmylou: Stings, it hurts, and it can make you angry. And honestly, like, you normally only get angry when you're hurt, you know. So when my parents say something like that, I do take it as they're caring because it's your family. Your family got your back even when they're being shits. They got your back, you know. But then when, when the negativity comes in from, you know, just unlikely sources, it starts to throw you a little bit. And that one can leave you a little bit wobbly. And then you get a couple of trolls, you know, throw a couple of people that you don't even know.

Tommy: Yeah, that's what kills me.

Emmylou: The ones that you don't know who are probably sitting there, you know, like I find that easier though.

Josh: I find the, the, uh, the face I don't know who's a troll a lot easier than the person who I feel should know me and doesn't get it because then it feels like, oh well, I'm a bit out of a— like there's an alignment piece that I'm not sure.

Emmylou: Yeah, sometimes it's been a bit of both. Sometimes I'll have that and, but I can talk that out with you know, with someone because you do know them. So I can talk it out with Aaron and go, God, I wonder why they did that. And you can obviously, you're assuming a lot of the time, but at least you can have that discussion. But sometimes with the faceless troll, I'm like, oh my God, I just want to firstly beat their head to the ground. I just want to lay into them. They're making fun of me and my kids or whatever. But at the same time, you want to you want to ask them what's the justification for that, you know? Whereas I can kind of work out, uh, when it's, when it's negativity coming from someone you may know, you know?

Josh: That's so interesting because I feel the absolute opposite. I feel like, you know what, Pete, like the trolls or people who like, that's projecting, they're detached, like I'm detached from that.

Emmylou: I feel like you, that's a much more sane way to look at it.

Josh: No, but I think that the thing is you can at least reconcile better closer relationships. I feel like I'm way more likely to cut people out.

Emmylou: But that's the thing though, I have had to do that a lot and just go, you know what, what you're saying and what you're doing, I can really see it and recognise it and I'm just going to back off. I don't fight with that sort of stuff because you know it's their shit. I just, I really just bow out. And I think that's something that you have to learn to do is bow out. Doesn't always feel like you've gotten closure, but at least you're not around it.

Josh: Yeah. What about like transforming yourself? So we're constantly changing. How do you deal with people who say, oh, I know the real Emmylou, I know you back here or then versus where you are today? How do you start that conversation?

Emmylou: Well, firstly, I'd say, when do you know me? Because I was stoned for most of my 20s. And if you knew me then, well, fuck, it's not so bad. I can see why you're pissed off. No, I am shit. I shouldn't say that. So it depends. And it does happen. It's funny, but it only happens now in the world of Instagram. I knew Emmylou when she had 5,000 followers. Okay, well, fuck, has that got any bearing on my personality whatsoever?

Josh: But Tommy's about to say, I knew Emmylou when she had 1,000.

Emmylou: Exactly, mate. Any different?

Josh: And then so he's like, no, no difference.

Tommy: Like, honestly, like meeting you at Charlotte's place, but seeing you like, it sounds like you're aligning yourself a bit to it.

Josh: It's a bit of part of your identity, which is okay. Yeah.

Tommy: I've been hanging on it for years.

Josh: The positive bit of that is it's like when people follow you, they're backing you. So there's something exciting that people see and it's like, fuck, I backed Emmylou in the early days.

Emmylou: And it doesn't matter if they're backing me at 1,000 followers, they're backing me at 70,000. It doesn't matter. They're a part of that journey and they're a part of that success. And I think that's really important to always push that back to them. You're a part of my success. You know, and then, and then they, they like, it's just, I don't know, it makes you feel good, you know. And they understand that I'm grateful as well. It's, there's nothing better than someone showing you gratitude.

Tommy: 100%. I think though, when someone has 1,000 close followers, right? And this is not an example on you. It's like maybe a musician where it's like, ah, they're indie at that point, right? And we love being able to go to a small gig. I think Ed Sheeran was the example. He's doing stadium shows from doing shitty old pubs. Pubs to doing stadium shows, there has to be a difference and you become something different for other people. And so people do fall off. And I think that can rattle you. You know, like you have someone who's really tapped in in the early days and then you're like, where'd they go? But then it's like, oh, well maybe you're just not for them at that point.

Emmylou: But yeah, you're not serving them anymore. And that's okay as well. You know, you're not for everyone all the time. You know, you, it's just like friends. Like Remember you had those hardcore friends when you were like 20, living at each other's house, borrowing their clothes, eating their food. You know, you're there every day, never gonna part. Mate, I don't even remember their name.

Tommy: You were stoned.

Emmylou: But you know, you have those friends, but man, that— what, you were tired.

Tommy: Yeah.

Emmylou: And, and you were both in each other's lives and you created amazing memories and then you just drift away.

Josh: Yeah.

Emmylou: And, and that— there's— I don't see that as negative as well. And I think that that can happen with your fan base as well. Yeah.

Josh: What do you like at your kids' school when you go in there? Who's Emmy Lou going into that environment?

Emmylou: Oh, I'm the worst. School drop-offs for me, I'm normally very much in work mode by then. So I'm up at 7 and I'm waiting to like get on the phone and especially at the moment, do you know what I mean? I've really scaled that back so that I can be there to drop them off. But I am, I'm on my phone doing some, especially school drop-offs. School pickup. That one I found really hard. I'm exhausted, but I've still got a good hour and a half of the working day. So, you know, people don't realise that I am actually on the phone from 8 until 5, 5:30. And back before I sort of had the team and had more of a schedule, I would, you know, scheduling calls for 8:30 when the kids were in bed. Whereas now, you know, that is for a different time that, you know, I need to do stuff, other stuff. Or I need to actually have some downtime. So now, you know, I kind of make those rules. Now it's work time between like a normal business day, but that can sometimes I can pull myself up and go, all right, get your head out of your phone, chuck it in your pocket, pick up your kids, show up, be interested. Do you know what I mean? Like I've had to pull myself up even this year. I've had to do that.

Tommy: I mean, the hard thing is it's what, 3:30 to pick up?

Emmylou: Oh, there's still an hour and a half of work. You're rushing.

Josh: And you've got two phones.

Emmylou: Yeah, so I've got one in here. It's like your snacks are in my pocket. Like get How the fuck does that work with Bluetooth connection on your AirPods attached to both of those phones? Yeah, you've got to put one away, otherwise they will like go all loose. Yeah, yeah, it's the worst.

Josh: Yeah, that's not ideal. You've even got, because whenever I imagine you driving, you've got like a full decked out decal, Emmylou Loves Car.

Emmylou: Certainly do.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, that's been a dream.

Tommy: Who drives that?

Josh: But that's been a dream of mine with the Daily Talk Show. I think First 100 episodes we were talking about that and I tried to convince Tommy to, um, you're not wrapping my Hyundai. Complete wrap of the car. I mean, what was the thinking? What was the thoughts behind that? How did you get that?

Emmylou: Well, for me, I, you know, I always try and think of ways to offer value to the brands that I partner up with. And, you know, wherever you meet Mitsubishi came in with, you know, a car when I had no following, like my, so my, my old Silver Bullet, 20-year-old Holden station wagon, carks it. I do some storeys on it.

Tommy: I think I watched that story. I think it went flat or something happened.

Emmylou: Oh, fucking whole thing blew up. That's what happened. I'm surprised you don't remember that.

Tommy: No, you left it somewhere.

Emmylou: Yeah, I had to leave it in the middle of Middle Park, like the richest suburbs. So my kids go to school. So if you ask about school pickup, that's the type of memories we're creating right now. So, and then my my shoe broke. And so I was walking them to school from the place where it had broken down. It was just crazy. Anyway, Warabi Mitsubishi came in and gifted me a car and it was amazing, you know, with no following, but they believed in the community. And mate, they have never to this day received so many emails and followers from that point on from any other car partnership that they've done. It was just nuts, you know. And then they came in, you know, with a car partnership after 6 months, you've got to swap it over to the next one. And that's just part of how it works. So when they went to swap it over for this one, I'm like, look, can I pay for the wrapping of it?

Josh: Yeah.

Emmylou: Look, I'll give you some guidelines. Here's my favourite photo of me, logo, high res.

Tommy: PNG.

Emmylou: Surprise me. And they wrapped it. I paid for it. Wanted to because I thought, let's offer these guys some value. You know, let's get your name on it, my name on it. Let's do some street team stuff. We're revving up the show. You know, let's, let's go for gold.

Josh: Do you have icy cold cans of Coke in the back?

Emmylou: No, I know, you know, I always wanted the choc milks.

Josh: You know, like, you know, it used to be the choc milks or the Pepsi versus Coke. I loved that where they would be out the back and you would get like, I think it was like Mentos or something.

Emmylou: I remember once following, uh, it was back in WA, a radio Street Team car, following it for miles. And then they pulled up and I was like crazy. I think I was a P-later, so I was 18 or 19. And then they opened the boot and there was a pack of, a 6-pack of Tip Top hot dog rolls. No hot dog, just the rolls. And I was like, fuck, I've been following you for 20k. And all I got was this. And I was so gutted. I never did it again after that.

Tommy: I worked on the Street Team and I remember we were in Frankston Preston, and this guy was there. He'd come from Williamstown on the train, and he won a wheelbarrow, and he took it home on the train. He got more than you, I guess.

Emmylou: That's worth the trip to Preston.

Josh: With a few hot dog buns in there.

Emmylou: You're lucky to have come out alive, really.

Tommy: Would you do an upgrade of the wrap? I mean, say, yeah, I mean, through Werribee Mazda, get a nice Mitsubishi.

Josh: Mitsubishi, yes.

Tommy: They're not my sponsorship, to be honest.

Josh: Do you want a Mazda one?

Tommy: Mitsubishi.

Josh: Mitsubishi Mazda.

Tommy: Is there a Werribee Mazda? Christian Hull and you.

Emmylou: Oh, I'd love that. My dream is to get us two on a poster together. How cool would that be?

Tommy: How'd you become friends with Christian?

Emmylou: So Tanya Hennessy and I had been on stage on a panel probably a month earlier, and it was this— not even this time last year. So we haven't even been friends a year yet, and we're at VidCon. She invited me to drinks. We're all staying at the same hotel. She invited me downstairs for drinks, and I sat next to Christian, and we like just started chatting like instantly.

Josh: I can't imagine you guys getting along.

Emmylou: And we just, we were just wetting ourselves laughing and there was no pretentiousness. Yeah. I didn't actually know like anything about Christian at that point, but it was funny enough, I had been filming something for a brand and they had said, oh, we wanted to get Christian on this and it didn't happen, blah blah blah. I was like, oh yeah, cool. And all I knew was it was a guy that they wanted on the show that had a blonde wig. That was it. And then we just hit it off. And the next day I think, you know, he messaged. And now knowing Christian and how he's quite reserved in a lot of ways. And he messaged to say, hey, I'm going down for coffee if you'd like to come. And now knowing that, that's not something that he would sort of go out of his way to do. And we ended up spending the day together. I dragged him to every clothing store, tried on 1,000 outfits. He helped me spend a lot of money and went out for lunch. And that was kind of it.

Tommy: He's great. I love you two together on the show. It'd be so much fun.

Josh: That would be so much fun.

Emmylou: He is honestly, you know, Obviously on camera it's funny and we have fun and it's all natural, but off camera too, you know, being in this one— when you were saying about the negativity from people, you know, and stuff. When I met him too, I was at that point where I was feeling quite lonely, like, Jesus, you know, the profile's growing, yet I'm, you know, not being surrounded by a lot of professionals in the industry. And so his friendship came along right at a time where, you know, I'll be always so grateful for that as well, because that's, that's a true friend, a true mate.

Tommy: Yeah. And it's more fun doing it with somebody else, even if it's just consulting about what you're doing and what he's doing.

Emmylou: Yeah. And you know, he's busy, man. He sells out national tours. Him and Tanya got this killer show on the road. So we don't see each other a huge amount. So when we do, it's just bam, we're on. We don't have any time for any bullshit, any insecurities. We just go for it. And I love that. I mean, we travelled to New York for 2 weeks together.

Josh: That looked amazing. I love the, I love the fact that Christian walked away with the exact same coloured jumper as the sales guy.

Emmylou: Yeah, I know. I made him. So we were in Michael Kors, which I don't even say right. It's so fancy.

Josh: Michael Kors?

Emmylou: Apparently it's Michael Kors. I like Kors. I'm going with that. And I spend enough money in there to call it whatever the hell I want. So we were in there and I just turned into this absolute Soho. I don't know. You know, sometimes when you go into a store, I do it when I go into hippie stores, all of a sudden you think you're boho. You're buying like, you know, everything. You're buying all the dresses. You never wear them again.

Josh: You get in it like Seminyak in Bali. Just getting a bit of the few inches.

Emmylou: And then all of a sudden you're just, you're in it and you buy everything. Well, that was me. And he was just like, who is this person right now? And then I said, can you just try on like a couple of bits? Bits and pieces. Come on, they brought out the champagne and like, really? Oh yeah, no, they were.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Emmylou: And he was just sitting there on his phone. I said, try on the fucking jumper, I'll buy you the jumper. And then he tried on, he goes, oh, I like this. He goes, it's $200. I'm like, yeah, it's cheap.

Tommy: We're in New York.

Emmylou: I know. And then, but he looked fantastic.

Josh: Yeah, it looked great.

Emmylou: And he loves it. He wears it to death.

Josh: Yeah. I mean, what's the, what's your thoughts on faking it till you make it?

Emmylou: To a certain extent. Definitely. So going back to the question about what I'm like at the school pickup, you know, what, you know, that I remember really having that shift in my mentality around 3 years ago where I thought, right, every day I rock. And I'd just been rejected from a reality TV show. So I was down, real down at that point. And I thought, Jesus. And I hadn't even really been going for that long. And I had this real shift and I thought, nah, this is it. I'm showing up every single day. Every day I'm getting up, hair, makeup. I'm like, it's like I'm walking into an interview every single day. And that's what I started doing. And for me, that was that shift. And that is for me, like, faking it till you make it. I don't think you can fake it about your skill set. You have to be honest with that. If you aren't a TV presenter yet, that's okay. I'm, I'm working towards being a TV presenter. Or, you know what, it's like acting like Oprah is how I feel.

Josh: Like, I mean, even the energy that you bring in, like, you you, yeah, you do have an energy. You come into the room, you bring an energy, you, you know, you come through the door. I think that there's, there's something because that's real even though you might be faking it.

Emmylou: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, you can do little things like, you know, how are you going to present yourself to the world every day? How are you going to speak? How does your voicemail sound to people? What's your email like? You know, like all those kind of things. And I'm still working on my email.

Josh: What is your voicemail greeting, by the way? Can you do it for us live on it?

Emmylou: I had to change it because I sound I sounded like I was 12. Hi, you've called Emmylou. I can't come to the phone right now. That's how it used to be. It was now it's like, hi, you've reached Emmylou. Like, it's like full badass.

Tommy: You know, you can A/B test having two phones.

Emmylou: Yeah. Which one works better?

Josh: That's so true. I mean, what the phone thing I find very interesting because it's sort of the vision of someone on the phone wheeling and dealing, all that sort of thing. What the fuck are you doing on the phone? That's what I'm curious about.

Emmylou: Well, look, it's not actually as fancy as what you think. So I, I got the second phone because I was going to the Logies last year and I was filming everything on my phone and I thought my older phone was playing up and I was like, fuck, it's Logies. It's, you know, I'd hashtagged that dream for 3 years and I was like, there is no way that phone is going to be my end, you know what I mean? And so I got the second phone with that and then I found out that, you know, my kids love YouTube. And so now it's this amazing cafe tool that I use when I go out and they're going crazy. But what I didn't do well was separate the numbers. So now I just call anyone from any phone. They, you know, sometimes it's kind of good because I don't have my other phone. So they haven't picked up to my other phone. I'll call them. I'm going to fuck you up right now. And they pick it up. Who's this? It's Emmylou, the person who just called you from her other phone. What you doing, mate?

Josh: So good. Are you doing debt collecting? What's going on?

Emmylou: But now it is really good to film. So when I'm on an Insta Live, I'll have one particular phone and I can show them stuff. We can scroll together, which I really enjoy. You know, I can just show them something on the other phone straight away. And that's just kind of fun.

Tommy: It's an indulgence.

Josh: I want to be able to scroll together. I like that idea.

Tommy: You just be on the dual swipe.

Josh: It just makes things so like you could, because you can film your phone.

Emmylou: Yeah. And so I also do, I love doing this and it's so stupid, but that's I guess it's how connected I feel with the lives as well. I'll do a storey and go, hey guys, we're on the live, everyone wave. And like, oh, oh, look, we'll do the wavy emoji. Like, it's cause you're actually really in it. You know what I mean? We did the, the photo shoot from the hotel room the other day and we went live for that and it was crazy. You know, there was so many hundreds of people on it and we were actually shooting live and people just felt so like they were just loving it. I felt really rude. So I kept coming back to the phone going, I'm so sorry, guys. You know, I'm in the middle of a shoot. I've got a shoot. I'm like, I'll just go do this and I'll come back. And what do you think? And, you know, the live eventually went for the hour and ran out. But so many of the gorgeous community members were saying, don't worry about us, we're fine. We're happy to watch you. Just go, go do your work. We'll watch you. And you could hear me say in the background, I'm really like, I feel a bit rude. Hang on, let's just talk to them for, you know, I can't. And, you know, Reality probably says that I should have just turned off the live and worked. But you know what? It's my clothes, it's my shoot, whatever the hell I want.

Tommy: So you're replying to 150 DMs, you know, sometimes. And these are people, right? And maybe you know them or you don't know them. How do you, how do you work out who's your friend at that point when you're replying to? Because a lot of people, I think a lot of people that don't have a following is replying to mum. Their auntie, you know, Jeff.

Emmylou: Well, none of them. I mean, I'll know if I'm replying to someone who's actually a personal friend of mine. So those 150, 200 a day are all community members. Yeah.

Josh: Yeah.

Emmylou: So they're not—

Tommy: Does it blur the line? Does it confuse you about friendship? Because I know I think it would confuse you, Josh.

Josh: Yeah, I couldn't.

Tommy: I mean, I think you're clear about your— like, because some people just can't handle having a whole heap of friends.

Emmylou: Yeah.

Tommy: Like, I think for me, I've got a lot of acquaintances that I've, you know, been friends with for years, and I just, I assume the friendship when I see them. It's not like we might not hang out all the time, but then I feel like Josh is more like Christian.

Josh: How Christian and I are friends, and I feel like that him and I, the way that we talk is very similar, which is like there's like a reserved part of it, which is like just not needing that many friends.

Emmylou: Yeah. So I don't have a lot of close friends, you know. You know, I have my core people and friends that I've been been, you know, friends with for over a decade or since I was a kid. I don't have a huge amount around me. I don't need that. I love, you know, being alone. That's something that, you know, in times when you're maybe mentally not, not all, um, not at your best, at your peak, sometimes being alone can be, you know, not nice and it can feel really lonely. But for majority of my life, being alone is, is quite okay with me. So that doesn't worry me too much. And, you know, they are part of the community. So I do really see them as that as well, and I will always care about them, and they'll always come first in these decisions that I make, you know, around the Emmylou Loves brand. But then when we get home and I'm sitting there alone, you know, that's my time, and I really value it as well. And, and no one will ever infiltrate that.

Tommy: Do you think people blur the lines? You think about— yeah, Tom Cruise, these huge celebrities, you think you know them. You rock up. And so they've built a career out of having rapport with the person watching. And so then sometimes if you did bump into them, you know, oh yeah, it happens all the time.

Emmylou: And, um, and, and that is hard because people will come up and, and want to give you a hug straight away. And, but they'll not— most of the time will stop you and stop themselves and go, oh my God, I just realised you don't know who I am. And I'm like, that's cool, that's cool, it happens all the time. And, uh, you know, my— I think my goal in those situations, always to make them feel comfortable. Because a lot of, a lot of the time they're kind of shaking a little bit or a little bit nervy, or they're, they're just a little— it's, I wouldn't say they're starstruck. I think it's more that it's surreal. You know what it's like when you see someone on TV, you think, God, I know them from somewhere. You know, you don't always think, oh my God, that's that person. You think, ah, Jesus, I know him. Did I go home with him?

Josh: Well, you've built it.

Emmylou: When I was 20.

Josh: I mean, yeah, because you've built a rapport through your content. And so they're in the moment trying to understand what it all fucking means because you've emulated a friendship.

Emmylou: Yeah. And so you can't just go throwing that back in their face. Well, you have to understand that, that if that's you and your brand and who you are and who you show up to, well then fucking show up to it every day. So if someone comes up to you and, oh my God, you know, like, how you going? How's the kids? Hi, Sage. You know, the kids don't always understand it.

Tommy: That's fine.

Emmylou: And they don't need to. But with me, I can understand. And that's fine. I just, and I always make the rule and all of the, all of the tribe know that I have one rule. If I'm yelling at my kids or in the middle of a barney with Aaron, do not come up and introduce yourself because you will get in the way and you will get injured. You know, I'm someone who, you know, if my kids are fucking running amok, I'm going to tell them. Or if, you know, have we all had barneys in public? Well, I don't know.

Tommy: I have.

Emmylou: And so if It's one of those real personal situations. Don't come up and not right now. You know what I mean? Like maybe screenshot it and send it to me later.

Josh: Do you get a bit of that? Do you get people do it like the weird, like taking a photo of you and then sending it?

Emmylou: No, they'll come up and I'm super proud that that's how they feel. I'm super, super proud that I give off the impression that you can come up and say, that's what I want, mate. I want you to have that because I've I've felt it when I've had to either introduce myself to someone, especially back in the early years, and say, hey, you know, or just love to interview you or something. And you get the shakes and you feel all nervous and you don't get the real nice, friendly, and you're like, Jesus, you're nothing like your Instagram, you know? And that, oh, that can feel really soul destroying. And I'm so proud that, you know, these people don't feel like that with me. They can come up and say hi and, and I feel comfortable enough to go, hey, how you going? Oh my God, I am running late for, you know, school pickup. I got to go. But it's so lovely to meet you. Do you want to grab a photo quickly? I got to go. Like, you know, and it's, that's fine.

Tommy: Is it, is it what you sign up for when you start an account and you build a community? Like, is it because I had this, we were speaking to someone, an author once, and I asked him a question about his book and he kind of was like a bit annoyed that I'd asked him. It's like, how would I know? I was like, 'You wrote the fucking book and I want to know what happened at the end, like after the fact.' And he was like a bit annoyed that I'd asked about like, you know, what had happened since you wrote it and the thing. I was like, that's what you kind of, as a creative, you put that out into the world. Like, how can we, why wouldn't I have this conversation?

Josh: It becomes a shared storey in some regards, doesn't it?

Emmylou: I think it depends. I think it depends. I don't think necessarily if you start a community, well, a profile online that you are necessarily necessarily signing up for, for that.

Josh: Yeah.

Emmylou: Um, and that's okay. I, you know, if you're a personal person but you're sharing, I don't know, um, organising tips but you don't really want to be out there, I think there's ways that you can still generate that content, still share it, still show up, uh, and, and not have to have that big public profile if you don't want to. It is all in the way that you act, and, and so I guess it is all in the way of people's perceptions of you as well. Um, but yeah, it. I have signed up for that because that's what I want, and I make it very clear.

Tommy: Yeah, which is conducive to your personality, I think. Like, who's— I mean, some sort of US UFC fighter that would punch your head in, you probably don't want to approach him as much as you like who he is, you know.

Emmylou: You take a selfie from far away with them in the background.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: I mean, where do you get your inspiration from? How do you sort of have the thoughts that you do around what you want to do?

Emmylou: Oh, that's, that's a good one. It really depends on where I'm at. So like we were saying right at the beginning, it starts with maybe like a purpose, what I think I can do, what I think I'm good at, what will make me happy. It definitely is always that will be inspiring. Nowadays it does stem around what I, what I feel from the community as well, and what I feel is right for where I'm headed as well. And I make that really clear so that we're never under under the impression like, oh, she's doing it for us. No, no, it's— I'm still, you know, I'm still following my dreams. I'm just sharing it with you. So maybe you're going to pluck that out and use that for yourself and grab that little piece of, you know, golden nugget and do it. So I think it's always about, um, being inspired by, by what you want. And then from there, that's where it becomes that contagious, you know, because you're not pointing the finger going, you should be inspired, you should do it like this. I'm just Just showing up every day.

Josh: Yeah. Do you feel happy?

Emmylou: Yeah. Yeah. I'm stoked.

Josh: Has that been always the case or is that something that you've had to learn?

Emmylou: No. You know, I personally feel, and this might be right or wrong, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, but for me, happiness is definitely a discipline, you know, and that's coming from, you know, I'm a suicide survivor and, you know, I've been to that basement of hell and that doesn't, you don't just try, you know, you don't just come to a point where you think, okay, my life isn't worth living. You don't come from that and then bounce straight back up. People, a lot of people think that, and that's where we— I think it can get dangerous. Oh, you've hit rock bottom, you'll be fine now. No, fucking no, you got 3 more rock bottoms to go. Yeah, you know, so I, I— happiness takes a long time sometimes, you know, and sometimes you're really lucky in it and it doesn't. But if you're one of those people that you are going up and down, the, the real key to that is to not be afraid of the downs. Do you know what I mean? Like, that— I think that's where a lot of that can come from, a lot of the darkness and the thoughts can come from, because you get scared. You're down, you're like, I'm scared, I'm down, that's it, that's the end for me. But if we can start to understand, actually, this is when you're at your most bravest, because you're going to work through this. And if we can start to look back and go, shit, I was out of place, you know, that it was, it was so down and I was so dark, yet I just managed to I just managed to get up and have a shower that day, or I just managed to get out that day. Rather than seeing that as a bad thing, can we see it as, wow, that was a real act of courage. I am one brave motherfucker, you know? And then all of a sudden we start to see all of these little acts of courage and bravery that we do, whether it's trying a new hairstyle, whether it's sitting in the shower and crying, reaching out for some help, saying, hey, you know what, I'm not super happy in this relationship, I wanna, I want a career in TV presenting. All of these things are tiny little acts of courage. And I always say this, and that's what builds that foundation for, for your confidence on who you are.

Josh: Can you identify when a high becomes so high that it goes into that sort of manic state? Or like, cause I know that I sometimes feel so happy and then I sort of start checking myself of like, oh, I've identified that when I normally have these big highs, it's then going to have that crash.

Emmylou: Yeah. I, you know, I think it— I think you do. That's a really good word, identify it. And it takes practise though, you know, like, like anything, right? It just takes practice. It's a muscle. Your personality, your courage, your confidence, who you are— that's a bloody muscle. And, you know, I'm 40 years old, I just turned 40 years old, so, you know, I spent years identifying what that is. And sometimes it can be an event, it can be a trauma, it can be substance abuse. Like, there's so many things that will either create that high or create crash. And, and as you get older and you get a clearer head— and, you know, obviously I joke about substance abuse, but it's such a far gone thing for me, right? So with a clear head, you start to realise that for me it's events, and it's, it's those big highs that, yeah, can lead to those lows. Now, are those lows a bad thing? No. You know what, it's just your body and your mind saying you need to rest now. You've just had a killer week. That was amazing. You're on stage in front of 2,000 people. You need to have a little, a little rest. Now, you know, 10 years ago, that little rest for me was the definition of, oh, I'm low, I'm not doing too good, you know. Whereas now it's like, no, no, you just need to recoup and rejuvenate.

Josh: How does that fit within the context of a content strategy? How do you— how do we strategize so that when we're in a low, that we can actually give ourselves that time while still giving our community what they need?

Emmylou: Well, you, you got to take care of yourself first. You know, you're no good to your community if you are pouring from empty cup, or if you are sharing out stuff that again is, is slightly getting more onto the selfish side. Do you know what I mean? So you need to just take stock for a second, and your community will be there waiting for you. No one is going anywhere. Like, you know, we need to remember that no one's going anywhere. We're all there. So I think for me, it really depends on the type of content you're used to pushing out. But for me, obviously my stuff is all real, every everyday stuff. I don't pre-record something and post it up later unless it's actually a produced video that we know has been done. Uh, so for me, I just won't do stories. Do you mean, or I'll get on there and go, Jesus, I am feeling low today. I'm out. I'm taking a nap. Gonna eat a block of chocolate. I'm out. You know, I'm happy to say that I feel good. I feel better already. Yeah. But other people, it might be that they do have that strategy and they've got a bit of content up their sleeve. Pop that on. Do you know what I mean? Like, put something on that you, you know, I don't know, a little IG tutorial that you made that you didn't think that was that good. If you're feeling the pressure and you need to post, chuck it up. Might not be your best work, but you never know. Yeah, might go crazy.

Tommy: I feel like it's hard to hide in these positions. We do a podcast every day. You're on IGTV, Insta Story, all over the place. It's like, but what I found is I would think that not being able to hide because doing something like this would mean you'd be showing it. I think it's actually increased a consistency in you, Josh, and me. And so, but yeah, because we're forced to go, we're gonna show up today, we're gonna do this thing. Yeah, we're not gonna be assholes.

Josh: What's putting the makeup on? Is it like, that's our version of that, right? Which is like getting out the front door and doing it.

Emmylou: Yeah.

Josh: And, um, yeah, it's sometimes because you can then through that momentum actually get out so that low isn't as big because you're actually—

Emmylou: Exactly.

Josh: And consistency. I love that.

Emmylou: That, you know, I talk about that a lot because, you know, we're not always inspired and we're certainly not always motivated or happy. Exactly. But the consistency— you don't have to be inspired or motivated to get out there and go for your daily walk or do the daily talk show. You just got to get out there and do it daily, you know. And sometimes when you push yourself at that point, go, hey, it's not going to be the best, but I'm going to do it anyway. Those are those real moments of growth.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely.

Tommy: I love it.

Josh: Yeah, I think it's, uh, Seth Godin talks about, uh, authenticity being overrated in regards to a pilot isn't authentic. He or she are going to fly the plane whether they're feeling happy or sad. And I guess what we're doing is it's, it's the exact same way. Like We can be authentic, but we can also show up, you know, each and every day and find something in that cup as well.

Emmylou: Yeah, exactly. And you know, that is authentic in itself as well, right?

Josh: Yeah.

Emmylou: We're not— yeah, I just, I love that you brought that up because it really— I talk a lot about, um, I used to talk a lot about it when I first started, was that really finding the joy of the 90% of living. So, you know, you got your 100%, you did 10% is the glossy magazine cover, the TV show. This part, this part is the 10%. The 90% is you making all of this cladding behind us, you know, like getting the shirts made, you know, having to save up the money to get the merch, all of those kinds of things, having the awkward conversations with your parents.

Tommy: We borrowed it off your mum.

Emmylou: Yeah.

Tommy: We got a 10 grand loan too.

Emmylou: You know, that's the 90%. And for a while there, that 90% really sucked for me because I was like, God, but then something hit me. And it was when I was auditioning. I, again, it was straight after I'd had that sort of knockback from the reality TV and I was going, for the first audition since that knockback. Now, something hit me just before I went in. I was like, fuck, I'm auditioning, which means I'm actually living my dream right now because 90% of what you do is audition, you know? And so then it switched for me right then and there. It completely switched. And that's when the showing up every day, right? I'm in every day is an audition. I'm just there. And this 90% is joyous and I'm grateful to be living it.

Josh: Well, it's part of the show. It's part of the the whole thing, right?

Emmylou: Can't get the 10% without the 90%. Yeah, doesn't happen.

Josh: Yeah, I remember the joy of, um, I always push back on doing my washing and shit like that, and I just had a moment of like doing my washing and being present in that moment and being like, actually, this is like the bit that makes me like a huge— like, we can have all the big dreams in the world, but if we, we're not fucking washing our socks, then we're not, we're not serving that 90% as well.

Emmylou: Exactly. And it comes back to, you know, that gratitude, you know, and sometimes we all get swept up and we're like, oh my God, life is so hard. And we've had a few knocks and things have happened. The bills have come in or whatever. And you're sitting there going, woe is me. But if you can scale it back for a second and just be grateful for something simple, mine's always clean water and hot running water, warm home like those. And that makes me smile instantly, smile like straight away. And I've always had that one for some reason. And I remember thinking it when I was like 21. Oh my God, I've got clean water. I think my dad's from Kenya and my mum's from Vietnam. So I've always heard those storeys of, you know, not having those things so accessible. And so something like that will just snowball into you thinking about other things that you're grateful for, big or small, and they kind of get bigger and you realize, wow, shit, it's all right. We're okay.

Josh: Emilu, you are inspiring. I know that Tommy and I are constantly referencing you when we, when we see, you know, what could be possible.

Tommy: I think you're the poster girl of picking yourself. You've created everything by picking up the phone. Now you've got two of them. Yeah, but you've decided I'm going to do this and it's going to be me deciding to do it and making it happen. Yeah, it's cool.

Emmylou: That's so cool. Thank you so much.

Josh: Thanks so much for being on The Daily Talk Show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com is the email address if you want to send us an email. If you enjoyed the show, take a screen grab, share it on Instagram. Also tag up Emmylou as well. Emmylouloves.com is the website. Yeah, right. And you can get all the dresses. I know, like that photo shoot that you were doing. Is that a whole new range?

Emmylou: Yeah.

Josh: Amazing.

Emmylou: Whole new collection. Collection. It's, it's insane. It's, it's so beautiful.

Josh: Amazing. Well, yeah, definitely cheque that out too. Uh, otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow, guys.

Tommy: See you guys.

Emmylou: Thank you.