#470 – Athan Didaskalou On Redesigning Luggage/
- September 29, 2019
Athan Didaskalou – Chief Strategy Officer for July, Founder and Managing Director of Three Thousand Thieves.
Athan is a business strategist turned entrepreneur. He’s worked with some of the biggest businesses in Australia, including Google, Telstra, NAB, and Coles, to assist them with commercial growth strategies, and becoming more human-centric.
Athan is the founder and managing director of Three Thousand Thieves, a service that curates Melbourne’s best artisan coffee and delivers them to the masses via a membership.
Athan is also taking on luggage giants with July, a direct to consumer business that focuses on design and customer service. July is disrupting the legacy luggage industry with their considered travel products and redesigned way of purchasing.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show we discuss:
– Legacy industries and high barrier to entry products
– SMS marketing strategies
– Customer service
– Audio, sleep and switching off
– The luggage industry
– Investment & business partners
– Knowing your weaknesses
– Being the underdog
– Coaching employees
– Being distracted by other ventures
Athan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/athand/
July on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/july/
Three Thousand Thieves on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/3000thieves/
Email us: firstname.lastname@example.org
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show, or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
It's a daily Talk Show Episode 470 weekend bad too Happy Sunday. Yeah, I did ask. Got out.
Halfway through. I then panicked because, you know, the you basically sent me up. Yeah, I smashed it.
I was watching a video recently of us, Josh. And we've been doing this all the time. I looked over, I looked at my mouth when someone else was saying something and I was mining what Josh was saying.
it's such a bizarre thing where where comfort is for each other, but at times, we can be the trolls but we want to make the coffee. Welcome to the
show. Very comfortable. Thanks for having me.
You just rocked up on your scooter.
living your life. actually heard the scooter at Santa
Fe braids? No. We've heard your house. That is this
epic side hustle. But I am had a moment when I was like, maybe that is man. And then you rocked in. And you're Indian leathers? You looking cool.
Have you always been a screwed a guy
always been a scooter guy where the weather's so that other people think I ride motorbikes. This guy's rough. Yeah, but then I see the bright red scooter outside. They're like, Oh, that's lovely. Very euro Vesper Vespa always this way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All all the top of a new VISTA actually looks exactly the same that haven't changed the shape over the last 10 years or so. I actually bought the vest but when I was at uni, because it was a great, great little run around. So I had it. I've had it since
I was six. We're about Did you go to Best Buy a house on Johnson? I did. Yeah.
Right. Frank there is fantastic. They're great people. Actually, he he rocked up in my car had a job at the time. And he's like, what's that piece of shit? Get out of that thing. And let me give you a case to this. set our Franklin and I only want to 50 say say I just want to walk around in the in the suburbs. And he's like, Listen, the most dangerous first thing you can do is get a low powered bike. Take the big one. Get me to 50 miles. I mean, if you ever need it repaid,
we have a guy not sure you go back to that is bad. MH good to Derek.
He's like he's a Vesper. Like, there's not many people who can service Vespers.
Well, the the older the more knowledge Yes,
yeah. But anyway, he's screwed. Derek is actually pivoting from repairing scooters to having a podcast he turned his dyno right? You know, dinos to like test cars, or I'm, like, in this case screwed up.
It was a scooter specific diet. And
so he had a dyno. So he could basically, you know, run it at full revs and test it out. He's turned that space indoor space into a podcast studio. Because like sounds like because it's like really good. Really good. Anyway. He's on easy straight away easy. Yeah, it's super, super easy. But anyway, he, we constantly see him looking at his phone. And he's got all these clientele of because people have been coming to him for years and years and years. But now he's in these podcast booth and all these people and trying to get their vegetables fixed.
It's a weird pivot. I mean, you've had quite a few businesses in your time. What's been the biggest shift in terms of industry or just even yet lifestyle? What a segue, by the way, that was a
nice segue. segue.
This is the daily punch.
Josh, Tommy and I was that was?
What was the question? What's the best?
The best Yo, yo, where's the strangest industry switch or switch over that you've done? I think
I think categories, people seem to think that category switching is a is a big deal. So if you say you do well, I used to, you know, I used to work in advertising. But now we're in luggage. It was like luggage. Really? How did you? How did you get into that? And that kind of category change, people start to think Well, that's a big jump. But you you know, a lot of the time it's a business model behind it. That's, that's quite similar. You know, Vesper fixing to to podcast is actually quite a big job, by the way. But I would imagine that, for him, it's actually like, well, this I've got all the equipment. And it's actually not that much learning, you know, audio people tend to go in between podcasting to filming things, too, is a lot of synergies between now and then they'll find themselves doing documentaries, and then you find themselves doing they find themselves doing tours, you know, because they're already doing those and how did you get there, you know, you just an audio not and, and, you know, the progression is easy. So I guess when you see the little steps to get there, it's actually not that big of a big of a job.
So as an entrepreneur, you're not worrying too much about what it is. It's about the business model that's backing it.
I think so. Yeah. I mean, you you, you tend to sort of see things as problems that you want to try and solve. And you see that opportunity in the problem itself. So you say things like, Well, you know, talk to talk luggage? Well, you know, these guys are making ridiculous margin Samsonite. 90% the market share. They make ridiculous margins and they're ripping people off. Once you know how that's made. Can we do something better? And and that's how that starts. And you're like, well, maybe it's like a sort of reference. That is like a wobbly table at a cafe. You kind of just it annoys you enough to like, icon eight. That's it, man. It's definitely some blow ups. Yeah.
I need some bloody paper over here.
Yeah, you know, your partner sitting in the other English Don't worry about like, hang on a second, I need to give me something you know, that braid heartbreak.
It's exactly like that, you know, just sits there. And you're like, I've got to do something to try and fix this. The funny thing is that it's always the case where it's like, it's a little wobble. How fucking hard can it be to fix turns out, that's normally harder than what you think. And so if you've created July, luggage is July on Instagram. Someone who loves a good Instagram handle Good day, right? It's extremely, extremely good. What was the what was the moment where you were like, hang on, this is the wobbly table. I need to fix it.
Well, we there's a cafe around the corner, called a coffee down on Second Street. Right, right near right near EZ Stretton for investor friends out there. And, and basically, you know, self employed, you're hanging out in cafes quite a bit. My my business partner, Richard also was running broza furniture at the time. So that was that was his baby. And we'd always find ourselves in this cafe. We'd always spend the longest amount of time in this cafe and you know, you sort of get to know the guys and you live.
You give them a heads nice pure white, you feel like you're in a gallery a little bit.
Yeah, they've done a good job. Yeah, you know, and so whenever on ladies, when the rush is gone, you definitely notice the other people who hang around the longest. And we just got chatting. So my business partners very much supply chain, sort of guy, very business. He very, like knows, knows these numbers, knows how to manufacture things. And I'm kind of the opposite. I'm like this brand guy. I'm like the the guy who cosy and things you know, like the fun guy, right? He's the business guy, the fun guy. Anyway, so we talk about things, we just get chatting, we chat about his business, I'd give my my advice into chat about mine. And he gave me his advice. And then we just start hauling business models and like the rise of direct to consumer and how easy it's been to get things manufactured and start to retail them yourself. That's that's a relatively new thing. Even though ecommerce has been around for a long time, it's been very, very difficult to source things. So what we found is it you know, there's a big rise, especially sort of Europe and US. And and what would the industries in Australia that weren't really being touched on, and didn't really have that, that sort of, there's a bit of a barrier, there's, there's a whole heap of, you know, there's a whole heap of teeth whitening stuff and things like that, you know, because they quite easy to source. But
all of Australia have
white teeth. That's right, that's, you know, that's that Instagram as they just get Yeah. But, but things that are a lot harder to manufacture a lot of luggage and furniture end up, you know, they end up sort of off the table. They're quite people to access. And then you have these legacy industries that just maintain their dominance. So, you know, with Richards, with Richard biocide, he's like, I reckon we can manufacture some amazing things. But we need to be able to position them right and make sure that we do everything else, right. And we need to, you know, we need people to trust the name and, and that's where we came up with July. And that was the the idea behind it. You know, July being the best time of year to travel.
Yeah, I feel like the last six years, every July I go away to the US or like it's summer somewhere else. Well, if you if you don't go away, just look at Instagram, you feel like you're in bloody Mickey Mouse with everybody.
Grace seems to the Greek island seem to be very popular at the moment. Yeah,
you got an authorised version of your July login, just get through those bloody rubbery areas in making up know they'll they'll survive,
What it weight is easy feat in the decision making process you mentioned, you know, you got these hard things to manufacture or things that are more difficult or there might not be as much in demand, which could seem That's hard. Are you looking for an easy product,
a no brainer. You don't want to easy if if it's easy to do, then everybody will do it. And and most people end up doing it anyway. And if you have any success, you know, if it's easy, you'll find a lot more people competing with you as well. I feel like you want the difficult, you want it to be a bit tough, so that you can go in committed to making him launching being proud of what you do. And and then knowing great were gung ho we're all in everything seems to be working. Nobody's going to be following us for at least a few years. Because it is tough. You know, at the very least you buy yourself some buffer if you do a good job. And that's, that's just from product manufacturing, you know, from a brand perspective as well, you want to back yourself into into a really good position. So that it's very hard for people to follow on in. You know, you talked about the Instagram handle, you know, at very cape hot to the brand element was securing July. Yeah. Because it's a brand builder, and it's a trust element, you sort of see it and go, Wow, that's, that's interesting. That's kind of cool. And, and there's an instant element of like, I kind of trust these guys. They seem legit. They don't seem like they're just always off the shelf and with it with a new badge on it.
So we currently What is it? What do you think it is, if you were to nutshell, they all
little things that that build on trust. So like the the colour scheme, the way that the websites bill, the way the transitions happen, the type of photography and investing in photography, they're all you know, if you hadn't put it to a metric, it's a it's an emotional, emotional buildup of trust thing. That is you couldn't quantify it in one little thing, but as a collective you go, these kind of feel like they're part of a family of things that I've associated with trust or trustworthiness in the past.
I mean, a lot of people who aren't in the product development or internet landscape in, in a business sense, probably, this is also subconscious for them. Like they're not going our July, but they're going I see all those crummy domains and crummy underscore 653. You know, don't don't don't it's like, but I know it's Yeah, it's a weird thing. I just haven't thought about like why I trust it. I know that I trust those things because I'm in a great, but I don't really know why. Yeah,
it's like a dodgy email right? You can taste it. You're like something's going on here. You know you sir. Madam.
The prince is not
you know, why may? Yeah. It's a weird thing. And yeah, I really hot I don't know what it is and what that measurable point is, but it's a collective of things. And I would say it's like looking at somebody and being able to trust them just by looking at their face. Yeah, Mr. 97 What do you think of his face? I definitely trustworthy.
Dental? I think you were before July, you had another business 3000 thieves. There was a section which was on demand, which I find interesting based on. Everyone seems to be talking about SMS like Gary Vee was just in Melbourne. And every Tom Dick and Harry is getting on the SMS bandwagon. We were part we were pumped and excited. Well, I'm back, we need to set up a number. Okay, so SMS strategy here, what's our SMS strategy? It you were doing it a few years ago and thinking about it, what? what's getting missed based on the movement and the trend? And where do you think it's all at the moment?
SMS is a funny one, right? Because anyone will tell you the first thing that most people say is 100% rate, right? Everybody raised their SMS is and and so everyone gets quite excited. They're like, Well, my emails only have 10%. Open, right? And SMS is good. But it's it's it's quite manual. It's a super manual process. I remember doing that like that SMS thing that you're referencing for 3000 thieves. I was working full time while doing that. And the volume would just come in. And so I'm like, I'm basically doing work replying to SMS is trying to organise stuff. And it was chaos.
How much automation is there in it?
Now there's a lot more but there's more bot services that that would do it. But the whole point of SMS is that inter personal you know, feeling. So you can only get away with bots for a certain amount of time. Yeah, until you know until you want to talk to somebody.
Do you remember that service? Was it banjo bingo, you SMS it? Bongo? Yeah. How do you? 33 Yes, I would have been like, I'm 31. I remember, when I was probably 14, it was bigger. I went ran to the skills place. And she's on a laptop says okay, I'm just studying and doing Bango. What do you mean? She's like, I reply to the people that was founded
San Antonio, who does movie standing desk.
Yeah, I know, the other guy bought a Ferrari. Back in the day,
it was everyone was hundred. The bomb guy. What did they say? Basically, just Google searching and the flying back? Yeah. Which was quite cool. It was magic back then.
It was and so is the magic there. Now do you think in the tech stuff,
I reckon the bots have kind of eroded a bit of it. Which is where you need that human element.
14 year old girl who's doing a study replying to
you know, it is actually quite a magic feeling. When you reply to one of these things, and you actually get like a little spelling mistake, you get something that just goes this is human rights. You know, let me let me reply back, if you feel it, and which makes it quite nice, I think that's it. That's a really good thing. Even even phone calls. We know like when we're talking with customers. And there's like an issue with delivery. If we call them straightaway that they're shocked. They'll email through and go, I've got a problem with delivery, we say it, we call them straight away within 30 seconds. And they freak out. You know, it's such a simple concept. It's old school a little bit, but people love it. People love the humour
of freaking out the funniest
words, that's me up
my phone is making a noise.
Yeah, yeah. So I think SMS is a great strategy to go back to what you talking about. I think SMS is a great strategy. You can use bots for a certain point, but I think you you should start the conversation with the human element. That's the trust builder. I think
probably a common word in your vocab is scale or scaling. Like as an entrepreneur, everyone's looking to scale their business. Yeah. How can you scale? This approach? that personal touch?
I think you can I think there's, there's, you know, how many SMS is you're going to get? You know, 1000? I might I said 1000 a day? You know, you just, it's, it's, you know, you can probably reply to like, 10 minutes to 10 people, 10 messages per person? Yeah, I think it's, it's definitely scalable, you know, to a degree, there's assistance, there's, there's pre written stuff, but I think the human element is very important. It depends on the objective. Yeah. If it's something like just sending through shipping details, and, and just, you know, automating a lot of the stuff that would have gone through email. Sure, you can definitely scale that up. But if things like customer service, like are, you know, you know, I'm, something's happened to my lining on my suitcase, what do I do? Well, how do I clean the case? You know, it's really frustrating to get a book back. Yeah, it's really frustrating. And, and, and I've been doing it with the quandary spot on messenger, you know, like, trying to find out I've got, you know, issues with, you know, I wanted to request a meal. And, and then I just kept getting the bot.
You know, you know, when you calling on the on those automated phones, you just, you know, the trick is just keep pressing zero until they're like, Okay, cool. Now we'll just send you somebody to talk to, that's all I want. I just want somebody to figure it out and have a chat to the Instagram handle July, obviously very powerful backing it up with having that sort of personal touch having people on there commenting, you pedantic on your strategy, when it comes to how you engage with your customers are your audience? No,
I think I think the key thing for us has always just been, well, we do a little bit of, you know, brand personality training. And but but the the guys replying like this, there's a team of us that all sort of have a hand in it. And it's important for everybody to have their own personalities come through as well. So the whole thing is, like, Whatever it takes, just make somebody happy.
So what are the like, what are the rules? For us, one of the things is, we don't even have that massive of a following when it comes to Instagram or social media. But when you have a group or team working on it, it can be a bit of the bystanders syndrome, where it's like, Who's gonna re gramme this thing? And who's going to write back to this thing? How do you work out that? Yeah, the
Grammys regarding separate customer service, that's a whole separate, that's a whole separate thing. But when, when replying to people looking at you, you know, especially from a from a customer service perspective, the rule is always acknowledge their concern. So things like, you know, I can't figure out lock, you know, I forgotten my, you know, the locks not working, you know, which is typically I forgotten the code. You know, so, like, Okay, well, I'm really sorry, you know, I'm really sorry, like that, sometimes locks can be a little a little tricky, you know, you have to acknowledge their concern, so that you're on the same team with them any kind of knowledge of their big fucking I would never say that. And, you know, sometimes people just need a little bit more assistance, and getting that over line, but you have to, you have to help them out, you gotta, you gotta share them, and you're on the same team. And, and I think a lot of people come to the table ready to fight, you know, they're like, Can I just speak to the manager, you know, I've got a, I've got an issue with with my thing, and you've, you've just gotta go, we're on the same team here. Let's get that resolution. And that's, that's definitely one of the rules. Yeah, get them on the same side. And then use your own personality to get them over the line.
So that's the customer service side. What about the general interactions? Like getting many people who are you know, just engaging on more like a personal a personal level?
Yeah, you know, we sort of have that brand personality and it sort of helps it writes itself you know, we say thank you enjoy your travels. It's never really about our before July, it's never really about our products. We're always engaging with like, Oh my god, you your photos look amazing, the triples grey, we want people to explore. So if it's like, if it's somebody from a design team, who who has a particular preference for beautiful photography, they'll end up engaging more with the photographers and just going wow, I really love where you is Museum in Tokyo. really lovely. If it's you know, if it's me, I'll sort of find some other guy like I love I love anyone who does like some creative video stuff. I know I reply more storeys than anything else. Yeah. And this and the storeys end up being a little more fun because people don't care as much yeah, so you end up just getting that sick that's really nice. You know, having that personality come through is like I think
what's your screen time like on your fine through the roof?
Yeah. What a token should we pull it out? Yeah. I mean, I've just I just formatted my phone just so that I could wipe that screen time
Klay Josh tell them what you've done was last year
I think it was it was on our Instagram 2025 hours on Instagram last week, which was I had annual leave as well. But you've got a document that you've got the doc doc mode
It saves battery you really need to reset your phone because that's that's lie Oh
no, I didn't reset it I really
got it out of the day for hours
four hours today almost to YouTube today. You know I actually I actually do it to to fall asleep it helps me fall asleep so I watch a really boring video and then you actually
have to have I mean this is very counter to no blue light just close your eyes to a YouTube video was at least a like a warm looking at each what do you what sort of
just really boring Talk Show Episode You guys
know it's well watch it's quite funny they'd like science videos there where they explained like certain things and just really boring topics. You know interesting interesting things to listen to but you know at night you just like
all right i need to do you actually watching Are you purely using premium Are you like turning off and just having the Yeah, it's a bit it's a bit of that.
Yeah, yeah, it's a bit of that. So I'm not actually looking at it. I just liked listening to this podcast, but you know, with with a bit of video attached if I
are using YouTube premium, I'm not okay.
Have you learned anything out of these boring video?
sticks? What am I learned? You know, I've learned a couple of things. But they're all it's all like useless information that you never really need. Until I know anyways. No, I'm just trying
to recall even some of it and I don't really think again.
Well, there's a on the car map. They have like Stephen Fry telling like boring storey while we driving now calm.
Oh, sorry. sec. calm. calm.
No, I heard calm app as well. GPS now.
app calm. calm. Yeah.
How do you say like if you're swimming? What's that called? The POL. How do you say? What? pool? Pull? Pull? Pull? Pull? What else? pool hill? Oh. No. So that Yeah, he's got like, like talking about lavender or whatever going into
voice voice It sounds like you can switch off. Maybe? Is that is would that be a?
Oh, no. It's just nice. It's just
it's just nice to fall asleep to order. It's a bit like white noise. And some people prefer this.
What's your key? Like, you
know, totally, like, you know, when you listen to those meditation? Yeah, it actually frustrates me at the speed at which it goes, you know, slow. Yeah, take a deep breath. And he like, like, it's just way too much for me. So, this 10 minutes.
Exactly, exactly. I got some sleep to do here. So I know I just like to listen to stuff.
Yeah. Now I mean, I'm this I have to the reason I'm pushing you on it is because I have to listen to something going to bed like audio Are you as well, right? Like literally everything. So I've got like 180 order or audible books and are like switch between them. There's one daily rituals, which just talks about people's rituals, what they do in a day. And just listening to that,
you would have heard a lot of entrepreneurs storeys being this burnout journey where they've had a crucible moment where on the other side, they come out and like never again, too much stress. It was crazy. I'm good,
I think there's a good entrepreneur, I would think, is able to leave in and and process and deal with a bunch of stresses, right? So my friend who's got a business that does high volume of sending out like tickets, like just that. It's not my business, but I know the stresses that he has about all of those little things. And I'm always blown away about how he doesn't really get fast about them. Yeah, right. What fast as you though? What makes you not, okay, within a business,
it's cyclical, you know, it, things change, and things happen. You know, sometimes, you know, sometimes there's a delay in stock, sometimes the colour is not right. So you've got to go back to the factory sometimes. You know, like, I came back from Sydney at midnight last night, you know, and and I had gym at five in the morning and that kind of stuff. You know, you've got like every day is banked up with something because it's just giving away for three weeks. Do you listen to your boring thing when you go?
I can't remember what it was this you know, pretty sure I was doing research on the
podcast type in
it. I was listening to the the Danny chilli chilli
podcast on the plane last night. He was great. I do love him. Yeah, he was a good guest.
And so you've worked out how to kinda go with the flow on?
That's right. I think you've got a I think, especially when you're when you're starting things, you you don't know what the answer always is. And so you just you're comfortable figuring it out. And I think a lot of the a lot of the time, for a lot of people who start their own businesses start their own things, they comfortable figuring things out for a while, that's probably the one trait with people who start businesses a lot or or people you know, people even with the same business doing new things. They're quite comfortable going well, I don't know what the answer is going to be. But why don't we just do this for the next six months and see what happens?
Is that a learned behaviour? Do you think
I yeah, I think
for sure, it's a learned behaviour, whether it's self learned or went through through family or friends or people who are open to that kind of risk. Some people are like completely risk averse. And they just, you know, know, I need to know exactly what I'm going to be doing, and exactly the outcome. And some who were like, Well, you know, let's start a podcast or let's let's start a luggage business. Let's start designing. Let's start doing things. And I'm pretty sure we can do this. Like I'm sure like all the pieces matchup. Let's Let's go. You know, how long have you guys been in? In this game for two weeks? Two weeks? A
year in a year and a half?
Yeah, this pocket for the podcast. Yeah, you
don't production companies? Yeah.
So we've been doing that for like 12 plus years. So but you know, different iterations of it. One of the things that we don't necessarily get to experience being in that service business, versus what you're doing which there is a tangible product is saying it out in the real world. Have you had moments yet when you're at the end important? You've seen someone with July?
Definitely. Yeah, we look out for it. We love it. Yeah, we live off it. We say so if we see somebody with a July we go up to them we like a How is it where you're enjoying it will take a photo with them. It's great. It's
you can charge on Can't you live with us for a little bit juice?
phones flat? Just sit with you for
now we do we live offer and and you know for we're at a volume now we were almost going to say one every time. So we're pretty wrapped with that. And but for a long time, obviously we didn't say anything something like oh, you know, I wonder when that's going to happen?
something that happens? What is the competitive advantage of the bigger guys say the Samsonite says you've seen like the democratisation of this sort of stuff, it's becoming easier outside of market share and or the brand equity of being around for a long time. What do they still have being at the scale they are?
A lot of it has to do with the brand. So let me explain to you how how you would buy luggage day to day, you're going to go on your trip, you booked it, you booked the flights probably two to three months in advance. And around six weeks out, you're like well, I probably should probably should book the hotel and probably need some luggage as well, because I don't have any. And you're likely to go to like a retailer. So Maya David Jones RCV clubs tramp access typically way where you'd be going in Australia. And and you sort of get that you actually don't know what you want. So you rock up and you have no brand affinity yet you just like a kind of just made a big one and a small one. And then you're looking at the big ones and small ones. And you're like oh, you know, red, reds nice. Or what am I a big red one. And then you're looking at the price you're like, well, this one's 800 reduced to 400. that's a that's a good deal. And and then the salesperson will say well, you can either have the the Samsonite if for the 400 or I've got one that's exactly the same cold Samsonite. And you can have this one for 300. And then you make the brand quote you make a judgement call on gun. Well, you know, it's all about price. I'm just gonna throw this one out. Or I like Samsonite and other brands. I'm just going to make the jump and and get the Samsonite.
fine thank you
and, and so that's it. That's how you buy luggage. You walk out of there going well, you know, good enough. This is what was installed. This is this is kind of what I've walked out with. And it's that's the dominance they've come in and going well Samsonite owns American tourists today. And to me the NLC then practically all the brands that you that are in the shop
they all acquisition so they Jimmy was acquisition American
tourist, I think was but a long time ago.
It's a portfolio strategy. So you know, Samsonite sort of meant to represent this, this innovation and business he kind of odd, American tourist is more colourful, a little bit more playful, cheaper, to me is more of a luxury, luxury play
on the acquisition stuff. When starting July. You're already talking about Okay, this is a long term thing we could potentially be sold at some point.
Yeah, I mean, you know, if they come along and give us give us 500 million, just if you're at this.
But But no, we're not. That's not the active goal.
So when the when you get a bunch of cash from an angel investor, what's the conversation in regards to recouping that money?
Yeah, I've met a lot of it, we're open to investment. But but not acquisition, there's two different things from that perspective, because we need we need capital to grow. That's probably one of the biggest challenges with direct to consumer businesses is that you're not just this guy going to go into the factory buying paper stock, and then finding a buyer to buy contain a lot, you're actually doing the retailing yourself as well. So you're taking on the burden of risk with that stock, you need the capital to be able to carry it through. So investment is very much the barrier to a strong direct to consumer business. And, and investors get that you know that they sort of they get their their dividends at the end, once once the company has scaled up.
And so is it one of those things that once you because you've seen so many Kickstarter fail over the years of just completely underestimating what it takes to get to the market, almost selling too many, and then they can't fulfil, and all that type of thing, all the people waiting for their Kickstarter.
You know, I've only gotten like one out of 10. Kickstarter, like delivered.
Yeah, I mean, I had one that was like a global SIM card thing that was meant to be meant to be able to use Wi Fi anywhere, and it would use, like a 4g, and it was great. But it was ended up being a bit of a limit, like it doesn't even work anyway. The the cash flow thing and having enough money to continue, once you've got the first amount, like how many iterations? Or how many sort of shipments Do you have before you can actually start? You know,
it depends a lot on the business model. So I want, you know, comment specifically on July because we're just at the beginning of the journey button. But generally speaking, it depends on the on the strategy, right? Depends how the latest is sort of running it, there's a trend in the US especially that is like growth at any cost. So they will keep bleeding money in order to maintain that growth, right. Which at some point, they'll they'll eventually have to go have to IPO in order to recoup any of that money back. And that's that's just how they run that ship. Yeah. Were there others, again, a little bit more of a Australian European conservative mindset where it's like, well, we need a little bit of investment up front. And then we can continue to grow and then be profitable very early on, and grow off our own revenue and profits. That's that seems that seems to be sort of a more euro Australian vibe.
Does that mean that the luxury of say having USB connectivity is a hard sell? When you start looking at the cost of a product? From a production standpoint?
Yeah, yeah, a lot of it a lot of its opportunity costs. So I'll give you a really good example with with what we do in July. So when we were first developing and designing we were we were late to the game, right, Samson, that's been around for a long time. There are a lot of other luggage brands out there. What we did was just read every single review record, and we found where the issues were in their bags. So all we did was aim to fix those issues. biggest one is that polycarbonate cases, a lot of people end up getting corners and edges pristine, because when a case lands flat, the impact is spread. But if it lands on the corners, the corner the unseen, that's where a lot of the issues were. So we needed to fix that. And our industrial designer was like, well, we make the corners, we make the edges rounder and we protect the corners with with Ella minium. Easy enough. But a lot of what what determines this the most interesting thing that I learned at the beginning of the journey, what determines the shape of the case, is actually the little black plastic things that hold the wheels, the shape of that wheel housing actually determines the shape of the suitcase. And those wheel housings because most factories are like just get a cheap because we've got three other people that we need to make money off of before they get to the retailer, just get them off the shelf. So they all end up having the same shape. In order to get the renderer edge, we needed to retool we needed to get a curvier will housing so we invested in that then that's where that investment comes into go well, you know, the luxury of just of just getting things off the shelf, you know, and you end up getting a sub subpar product you really want to direct to consumer right and really want to own your product and manufacturing process. You've got to start investing early in those things. So USB is one of those things but and the curvature of the cases like it was a big component for us.
So is there IP in that do you then try and like patent that type of thing? Or Yeah, we couldn't
do the code we couldn't we couldn't IP the radius of the corners of the case we did we did try though. But we've got the innovation Peyton for for the battery component
and so does the back because I know there was a bunch of issues with people couple of years ago now with the inbuilt batteries and then the laws are changing in regards to flying. Is it a removable battery that you guys have?
Yeah, so what ended up happening was a few years ago there's a there's a wave of of smart luggage where you know from a design perspective, it makes a lot of sense you integrate the battery you make it super simple for people and it looks quite clean. And and what ended up happening was the Samsung thing where the lithium ion batteries were flammable. And so airlines were like not no batteries, no batteries in the plane, especially in cargo.
So what they are they changed the rules and all those companies who had who had containers of product
went out of business overnight scooter ones the ones that like a electric moped
Looking at them going like, why don't you know these guys just have really good like video motion graphics people? Yeah, let's just have some fun.
Well, that's fine. I mean, that's the obvious one, that's good one, but they would they would be you could see it being a quick and easy business decision around Hey, let's value add, let's put a battery in it. That could be the end of the of a of a business
that well that's why I like a lot of our focus is not on the battery. It's a it's a nice feature. And it's a lifesaver. It's one of those things you don't think about until you are you're at the airport and you don't have any batteries like Hang on a second my suitcase has a battery back okay great. But we focused on the design so fix the things that people were unhappy with their current luggage make it beautiful make it pretty and people love it people have been
enjoying the bag making big changes because you know changing one little thing can be a huge cluster for you apprehensive to go in to re you know, overhaul something or pull out something
not at all like I mean what are you gonna lose right like that's the that's the thing it's just time and money which time you can't get back with money money you always can run now I mean that's that's the fun of it, right? You've got to have the you gotta have that personality to just go let's just do it and see what happens. And think with product with physical product things always evolve there's never a final there's never a final product much like with that much like with any with any art or you know anything you produce. There's always a little bit more you could do you have to you have to make a judgement call on where you stop for now. And then the next time you go What if we did this and will change a little bit of this a little bit of that
having business a business partner you said you're the colouring guy yeah, yeah, you've got the business
let's do it within the lines so
that's that's where the creativity comes in.
How do you identify and what is the strength of a colour God
I the biggest learning I've ever had is know what your weaknesses are and have an ego big enough to not worry about it that's that's probably for me the biggest lesson I've ever learned for myself I need to identify it right so you have the ego to move on from the the removing of the ego to know what that what it
what does it for you what do you what do you I'm really
bad at the the accounting finance side it
looks really bad at Tommy looks at apparently he told Bray my girlfriend that I don't give my receipts in
a wedding in a couple.
She put one in my bag for Old Spice. I'm still waiting. Today they go I do know they're there amongst all my food photo.
So the way I look at it, Ivan is that if he at least takes a photo when we get audited Yeah. So this guy, you just do that it will be the biggest cost of fact, honour.
Give you a pro tip. Yeah, you ready for this one? This is this is like hacker tip. Okay. gronk. You take a photo of it on the day. Yeah. And and when you have any to reference it if you use Google Photos, Google Photos. Yeah. You just search receipts and Google Photos.
I've done that before finding a burger. I didn't think about it for receipts. That's a good idea. Right? One. And so the so that's your the finance stuff. Did that fuck you in any businesses? Have you had to reconcile your own zero? And? Yeah,
yeah, definitely. I mean, anything, just anything to do with zero? Like, it's my last call to never log into zero ever again. They have to factor so I struggled because
it's like, what fucking car did I drive in? You know,
they'd question zero questions, a very deep and very emotional. It's like, what did your mom call you? When you were four years old.
But I probably say that what happened with Josh would have happened with you, I sent him the invitation as the admin to get into zero and he never saw
back to the numbers guy,
not even know if I quite enjoy zero. What I like about it is that it's this process. And it's like, it's taking a lot of the thinking out of it for me. So I can be this dummy that can just press a few buttons and get cash flow in and get understand.
Yeah, it's probably the perfect thing. Because I think that Tommy can say, Okay, this is where this is what it's looking like. And then I think that where I can come in is the creative way of like, how we can make it work. It's like, Oh, well, if you move that bill one other day, then cash flow is great, like moving it around and doing all that sort of thing.
Yeah, whatever it is, right. It's like just knowing that some things you like to do, yeah. And that you're good at doing those things. And then some things you just like, Look, in order to achieve any progress I need to give to somebody else. And, and I find that having having a business partner who's the exact opposite. But but still connected at a certain level really helps you you need to trust them. You need to trust that they're going to do whatever it is that they do well, without you ever having to need to know about those things at all. And I feel like especially with with Richard in July, we've definitely got that relationship where, you know, he's like, hey, I've got a call with a lawyer. You do it. Have fun, you enjoy that? I'm, you know, I'm just gonna I'm gonna go have I'm going to go party with some people get it out of the storey? What's on the best back?
end? Have a hands free investment.
jona do I've got a I've got a helmet that's loose enough. I pop it on speaker and then just Germans. Yeah,
hey, that's outrageous. They usually Uber drivers.
From what we heard, you're one of
you. So you've got it's a luxury right to have a business partner, that's the opposite, Josh, like, as well in the
relationship, you know, you've really gotta, you gotta be lucky, but you gotta work at it
as well. And so you could earn those luxuries by going through all the sheet. But if you're in the sheet, if someone's in the sheet right now, and they're like, got all these things, I'm a solo business owner, what, you know, songs, right or whatever? how did how did you weather that storm,
you've got a house horse, you know, it's as simple as that, you've got to find somebody who can do it. And you know, if you take on that burden, you definitely doesn't matter what YouTube app, or what YouTube video you're looking at, you're not going to sleep you are, you are awake all night, like, you know what I mean, there's a there's a threshold, you've, you've definitely got to cut, outsource it, you got to get some assistance on that, and focus on the things that you can do. There's, I mean, I used to, I used to be in advertising, I used to work with Honda quite a bit, and there was a, there's a great quote, that, that I used to, I still quite quite enjoy saying, which was pull this out with your with your stronger arm, you know, so in order to progress. So you know, in order to get going, you just gotta grab what you're good at, get your strongest time and just go forward with it. And the stuff that you're not that good at, I think the only way around this is to outsource as much as you can. So
focus on the strengths that can increase the business itself. Rather than spending that time in the weeds of the shitty stuff that you don't like doing.
Yeah, I mean, everyone's got a different strategy, right. But if you're never going to be good at everything, I don't think you know, unless you're a special person, then you're already good at it. So if you're not, if you're not that good at stuff, and you don't like doing it, outsource it to the things you're good at, you'll enjoy your work 10 times more, you'll feel more accomplished. You're feeling satisfied with what you do. And you've got you've got you know, you're still going to be on top of it. Right. So the mechanics of it, I'm still on top of it, but I don't have to do the day to day.
Are you an ideas guy? Yeah, like to think so? Do you have to time them because I can imagine? You know, you've just been travelling, being at a bunch of airports, hotels, you probably seeing a lot of luggage, a lot of friction, a lot of opportunities to come up with new products or, you know, update your current ones. What do you do with all the ideas
they're fun to have ideas of fun to have and they cheap ideas is super cheap. So you can have a million ideas and be and have a good time with them. chat about them. You can spend hours talking about them. And then you 75 and then you don't do anything about it. Actually one of the one of the ideas I used to love talking about this is this guy who said nothing to luggage By the way, but it might you never know. Is Is this guy in St Kilda on Ekelund straight. It was this Indian dude who set up Nexus 711 and opened up a vending machine store with no staff sold everything that 711 did at like 30% cheaper. What a genius idea what a brilliant guy, all he would do is come in like every couple of days restock the vending machines, and then leave
was a good business. I'm guessing it would have been I think
he's doing all right,
you know, I actually saw. So I watched a documentary on amazon prime of Coca Cola versus Pepsi. And there was such competition with even some of the high schools in the US where they'll give a bunch of cash to schools to be the exclusive drink. So that will like basically by the school Stadium, you know, or 50 grand a year over 10 years or whatever and build build the stadium. But there was a case where Coca Cola bought into one of the schools and Pepsi paid a house across the road to set up a Pepsi vending machine outside where all the kids hung hung out. That's that's pretty, pretty crazy. It's a creative
approach to something.
I mean, yeah, from a competition point of view. There's creativity and being able to compete in interesting ways. Have you done any of that where you've been able to be the underdog, done something creative?
You know, our most creative approach is to produce beautiful luggage in an affordable price that says that's as creative as we've got to begin with. We haven't really needed to go down that path. Yeah. Because I think the you know, the base, the main base being being Samsonite is it's just not looking at us here.
Something I find interesting, we should be with you, is you happy to talk about the competition, there was a strategy in competition doesn't exist. Has that been a strategy to we will talk about the competition? Or is that just naturally what you do?
It's interesting. Now we don't typically talk about we don't typically look at the competition in these scenarios. You know, we're obviously talking about it and and there needs to be an enemy there needs to be somebody that you're going after. And and there's a goal, right? The goal is like these guys have dominated for so long. Basically abusing the system of like mass production, mass distribution, there's, there's definitely a better way to do it. Do you know the
strategy So is that a strategy based on Australians love underdogs, we actually think we could sell more units if people know that they're being ripped off, based on and using the bigger using that brand name, rather than being a premium brand as a rip off because that's how, how you framed it when I say it now I'm like, this is all the same shit. It's like when my mom told me, you know, the T shirt and best unless the mango one it's made in the same store by a man but he's made elsewhere mango is feeling like a real boss. Is it? Is that a strategy? And you specifically speaking as a team about that?
Yeah, we we we actively don't look at our competitors. I think that's it. That's a strategy. Definitely. Because it's very easy to say, where square is you see where the man is? We always want to go with the bulls going. Yeah, sure. And so you want to pull the analogy? Yeah.
Sunday, they would have, they would have already won.
So So it's important to not constantly be looking what everyone else is doing. You want to be looking at? brands, people that inspire you and go, that's beautiful. I would really love to be part of that. Yeah, and start doing things like that
ethical business. Running one. It seems that when you look at someone like Samsonite, where they start mass producing, it's like they become about the bottom line, because they're so big, right? And it's their focus, how do you right now, where your businesses at looking at how you do things, and maybe where you want to go? Is ethics is on your mind, top of mind.
Service services, definitely. I mean, ethics is always is always top of mind. But how you represent that is typically through the level of customer service, you give people so you want to make sure one the product is as phenomenal as you saying it is. And then to when they get it or on the process of getting it, you are like constantly on top of it. And you over commit to it like this, I'll give you a really good example. early on. So we got away a house in Sydney as well. Somebody was leaving Australia Post delayed the shipment, just because they can't deal with big boxes.
it's a love hate relationship. And if you have to listen to suppose please just put us on the priority list. You know, sometimes they just delay things. And it was Friday afternoon. This lady was was going away on Saturday. So you know, she's like, you know, where's my luggage, like, I'm really worried about it was never going to get there, you know, Friday afternoon from Australia Post. So, you know, we sent an Uber over from from where we were in home Busch to Bondi. And I did it as a premium to guarantee that it would get there. So we either the champions we spent $150 on Uber and paid our friend
premium was it was it was the learning curve.
You gotta do it sometimes, you know, because the drivers are more open to
to grey area delivery hope you went into the car took some in some water. This is all
you know, this is this is all outsource, right? So, you know, we caught up the warehouse and we're like, Hey, listen, there's going to be a car that rocks up, don't freak out, just put the box in, you know, and was sort of like SMS in with with the customer who was following the journey along the way and couldn't believe that what had happened, you know, the carry ons to 95 retail, we spent 130 on the ability to get there. So like, you know, it was one of those situations where you like just whatever it takes, you know, and that you could consider that as an ethics thing. But it's like well call our ethics are you know be as customer centric as possible. There's something in the system that's not our fault that delayed the customers case but he's leaving tomorrow. What can we do you know, and and we've been known like I'll send somebody a case the other day who's just a random Bessemer who's like oh, you know, I'm you know, I want this colour but it's out of stock so, but I'm going away tomorrow is like of course I'll give you one just to take this travel with it. Beta dub if you want Yeah, bring it back and when you cases really will give you that one
right I just sent my mattress back 99 days yesterday call does anyone do the ship? Because you've got the hundred day return? Yeah, yes. Anyone actually send a case? Back 99 days? The
Yeah, this there's two types of people that return cases one is for colour, because computer screen and how some people say it on the screen versus how I would arrive. Okay, it's a little bit different. Some people are very particular about that.
I mean to white 99 days. I mean I think that's okay. I'm joking about the
know they buy it they check it out. They'll return mine. We
know everyone knows but yeah, you know, we just we just take it I've got an idea.
is a good one.
Well, I want to find out let's let's test out
to jacket. Yeah, the jacket.
jacket. jacket. He
goes now ticket right. So
you've July luggage? What about the idea of Okay, when people buy? Do you know where they're potentially travelling to? Do you ask any questions around that sort of stuff
in the in the store? We do. So if you come to the store, the the retail table? where's where's the store? important in Melbourne? Awesome, guys. Well, let's go right spot.
Yeah. So because what I was thinking is, so many times I've been to the US less so now. But especially maybe six or seven years ago, when I go to the US, you get you two bags, you buy you bring one bag, and then on the way back, you end up buying another bag for all the shit that you bought. Right? Yeah. So what about the idea of if someone picks the US you have a service? So you get an email? When you're in the US saying, hey, it's July, you can pick up like you can pick up the second July case for X PRIZE at these hotels. Accurate idea? What do you think I like it, well as appetisers bad. SMS you the contract? I mean, so I mean, there's millions and millions and millions of those ideas, right? You can just sort of, you know, connect dots. How do you know when to when to do something like that? And we're not to
you know, in that scenario, you've got to know how much convenience you're you're really offering? If, okay, so if we're going to workshop that's your job is Yeah, I love it. So the idea is that you go away, and you're travelling and you've got extra stuff you want to bring back with you. So you need a convenient method to bring that stuff back. Sometimes that's boring and you cut sometimes it might be what if you had a foldable duffel bag that sat within the case? So every case came with a with an extra with an additional soft carry on that would you know so you can add that in pretty high as like a add $10 to the to this thing. Yeah, fact that
you know, do you know what you could call it? August? I think it's I think it's that he does have such a routine and your your birthday July 33rd. Third, you done your research I clearly not 31 days, maybe it's called the July 31 on the final fucking day you're heading home for the July 31 Yeah, where you put everything in. So I like that idea. So keep going. So the duffel bag, yes,
you do duffel or run or you do things like I mean the the cases all next within each other. So you could easily do it as a bit of a cons approach and say well, you can buy two right now as opposed to later you at the airport you're doing cubes. Do you guys sell cube? We just yeah, we just launched ourselves not because it's you know square shop corners. Yeah, well, cubes, cubes a particularly even sides on the final things yet, whereas you can't call them. They're all different shapes.
Yeah. See through luggage? Is that just a joke?
That that is a thing that every luggage company does. And nobody buys them?
fun at the airport. Really? Yeah. Um, I
know. I haven't seen them on person. I've seen them. It was like a gimmick.
Yeah, I'm not sure if I can. Going to the US with a million m&ms. It's gonna look like shit. Yeah,
I mean, I yeah, I'm not I'm not the best. I'm not the best package. You know, my never looked at but never looks pretty enough to show people anyway. Just a lot of underwear. He knows like 40 pairs of underwear one t shirt? Like it's not.
What about the
with hard I love the look, the aesthetic of a hard case. The one thing I travelled for three months, and staying in heaps of small hotels, the hard cases open up. So you sort of almost have to have them completely open to access stuff. Because otherwise, the hinge starts to break. Is there a reason why hard luggage companies aren't doing the like a just sort of a top where it will just open up and flip up? That's not a whole section?
Yeah, definitely it is everything in luggage. Park with most things I would imagine is an opportunity costs. So as soon as you start adding soft things is actually makes that's the weak point for the luggage, then that that that is the bit that either breaks or rips. First. So either side, we want to have a case that's super strong. That is very, very tough to break and and, and damage whatever's on the inside. So which means you have no weak points on the outside. If you say things like well, we want a case where you can cram as much as possible for the lightest weight, then you do like a fully soft, fully soft bag, because the fabric weighs nothing. You can it's stretchable. So you can really jam it all in. It really depends on on what what the opportunity cost is. So you know, the hybrid one's always the weakest point ends up being that that soft? Yeah.
The I guess the industry having smaller, smaller operations within Australia. Was there any anyone or any business that was really supportive of you guys? Is there anyone that actually says, Hey, we're doing something that's not what you guys are doing that you actually talk to about this stuff?
Like complementary industries? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, anyone in the design world has been super responsive to what we've been doing. We've had such great feedback, that seems to be one of our core audiences. And they love it. They love what we're doing. And they appreciate the effort that we're going to from a, from a content marketing perspective, in terms of like, even as simple as, who's doing the photos, who's doing the styling, the colour, the colour, the photos that we're doing. It's actually one of it's been a key thing, we were like, we're just going to invest a lot into getting amazing, creative people helping us create great moments on camera. Yeah. And and it's, it's been brilliant, you know, it comes off and every person has something new and unique to bring to the table, and they apply their creativity to what you're doing. And that's that's the kind of dialogue we end up having with with other people in the industry, but mainly creative industries.
And so hiring people, what's, what's the key that you're looking for? When you're hiring people in all different whether it's a creative director wrong, or a customer service?
What they've got it, they've got to be the right cultural fit, they've got to be all hands on, all hands on deck, everything goes?
What does that mean? Because I always want it because that's always the dream. That's it's almost code for your work as hard as we need to work to get it done. Which is almost like what we all want as business owners, right? So like, you just need to fucking show up and do it.
Yeah, well, you got to lead by example, you know, so we're all in there doing everything, you know, I'm, I've got, I put a couple of suitcases on the vest, but I drive down and deliver to customers, when we need to
A couple of you to pick up back is on the way that as well, that we you know, we do what it takes, we do at the end, it's not so much about constantly working, it is about just getting the result if we're saying that we're customer centric, and we're saying we'll do anything it takes to keep people happy, then that's what we we commit to. And we you know, you're going to enjoy yourself as well, you know, you have you gotta have some fun, too. But it really is about culturally going. I'm okay with a title that says this. But by the way, somebody needs to go and pick up the booze for the event tonight. Who's going to go and do that? Yeah, cool. I'll go into it. And you got to make people feel comfortable that
there's a lot of people that aren't. And these are an onboarding process. So obviously, like it takes a while for people to completely understand culture, at their feet that you do, or meetings that you have, say, if you weren't happy with an interaction or on on a customer service thing, or you would have done something differently. You're doing retrospectives on that stuff? Look,
to be honest with you, once you're if you're in the team, you're in the time, you know, we're still part we're still pretty young. Yeah, we're not, you know, we're not that that aggressive on the hiring, on the hiring front, that once you're in, you know, up front, we try and make a good judgement call. Like anybody, you know, like, you just want to make sure you you hire for culture. And the skill set is important. But you can always learn things. Do you correct, though? I guess is the question like realise they encourage you to coaching process? Yeah, so I mean, there's many different types of leadership, we, we definitely have a strong element of coaching, and, and vision. So we sort of set the bar guide, this is what we're trying to achieve. This is what we're all about. By the way, these are the steps that we need to get there. If you don't know how to do three of these things, that's okay, we'll coach you through it. And we'll show you how to get that
you've had multiple businesses and how entrepreneurs can tend to be, you know, quite looking everywhere. For the next thing. And I know that you with July, it's it's been the thing that you've gone all in on, you know, there hasn't been a side hustle, or you know, you've had a bunch of stuff going on how distracted you get as an entrepreneur, by the other sort of potential, you know, beams of light out there.
Yeah, I mean, I've spent a lifetime being distracted by those things. But you once you find yourself in the right, the right kind of business with the right kind of people, those sorts of those sorts of creative opportunities come within the business. So you say I'm really excited about doing this foldable duffel bag thing that's actually a little add on that, that slips in the thing. What would it take to get that done? So you end up being more of an interpreter than anything else, and you start coming up with with great ideas, and the team supports it and you go ahead and do that. reckon the duffel thing will happen?
Yeah. I mean, I didn't come out yet. But that's why I love you come up with different ideas. And it's like the what if and then like, adding and you know,
is that it? Just back to sort of the not looking everywhere? And then saying it's almost a reframing? Look, in my business to be the entrepreneur within the business for the business, the shop? Is it? Um, do you think it's a trap, then for a lot of entrepreneurs out there that are just looking everywhere? Like, I'm not complaining, I'm a bit complacent with it. I'm not sold on this, but it's okay. Over here now.
Is each of their own depending on the on the life stage they're at? I think it's an important thing if you're doing something and you're not satisfied in it to it to keep looking. And that's it. That's that's a fundamental, you know, you never tell anybody, no, no, you, you say port, you just keep doing that thing. If they're not satisfied, then they need to keep logging. I think a lot of it is how you build how you build your home. And if you can build a home where you comfortable in you get your your creative output. What are those things that they say that build happiness? So it's like autonomy, mastery. And something else? I agree with that. Third one is, right, but let's let's stick with autonomy and mastery, right? Yeah. So you know, you need to be autonomous with what you do and make your own decisions. You need to be the master of it, you need to be pretty good at what it is and feel like you're getting you know, you're you're dominating in that and, and you know, everything about it, and whatever that third one is, you're going to do that that purpose. Thanks for the Google. And you're gonna have purpose with it, too. So if you if you feel like those three things, what you're doing in your day to day, I feel like you can start to get creative with it. You know, you just like you enjoy every little workshop moment like this. Like, right, that's still job. Let's just let's try it a duffel bag. Well, let's, let's see if we can if there's a bit of creative way we can solve maybe these the airport thing? I think I think looking around is is more around. How far out is within the business? Is it? Is it? Are you looking for different people? It's actually more about it's more about you searching for yourself? I guess.
Yeah, I think it's anything else. It's an interesting thing, because you could feel restless as a person, but then it's like, acknowledging the restlessness. And then do I even though I'm feeling this do I commit to the thing and stick at it? Because maybe maybe it's on the other side?
Maybe you're not looking for another thing? Maybe you're looking for another year? And sometimes you've got to look within yourself to speak Am I happy with this me? And how many more means are there before? I'm happy with with where I am?
I'm not looking that could be doing not looking good, but
I like it. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Awesome message. Thanks so much for coming on the show. July on Instagram. That's the easiest way. Do you find that most people are people clicking through in regards to traffic? Instagram, Google, all the different things where people coming to you from
where that was the main Yeah, Instagram. Yeah. Instagram's the biggest and search Yeah, people still searching caves.
I saw I was on the Instagram account. And within 30 seconds, I was getting re targeted on Insta storeys. Is that a big part of the you know, your marketing is quick.
Yeah, yeah, we we we do social a lot. Yeah. Especially to be part of what we do social search.
So just go on to their Instagram and then never forget.
And I got a text message.
From and actually it was a personal message. I can deliver food to suitcase if you need that. It's a data talk show. Hi, the daily talk show.com his email address. You want to send us an email. also appreciate any reviews on Apple podcast. Otherwise, we're cinema guys. Hey guys.