- August 10, 2019
Tommy’s mum, Joanne, joins us on Weekend Banter! Joanne is the most loving and caring mum, and a meditation and yoga guru. We chat about how Joanne got into meditation and yoga, and disciplining behaviour.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show we discuss:
– How Joanne got into yoga
– The Eight Limbs of Yoga
– Tommy’s outer shell as a child
– Managing behaviour, discipline and schooling
– Teaching and parenting responsibility
– Joanne’s new book, Peaceful Living with Prayer and Meditation
Joanne on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shraddhayoga/
Email us: email@example.com
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
A conversation sometimes worth recording with mates Tommy Jackett & Josh Janssen. Each weekday, Tommy & Josh chat about life, creativity, business and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and friends of the show! This is The Daily Talk Show.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
It's the dialling Talk Show Episode 428 is weekend batch and I got my mama in the studio. Joanne
thank you for being here. My pleasure.
Yeah go easier and a Josh and I you like to rip up my family. She's a bit nervous
or she you've brought in a gift for us.
Josh thought it was a blank because it's for 20.
Yeah. And it looks it looks a little bit like that. But what did you describe it it had the word marijuana and it was
it was Shroff cannabis, ARPA cannabis sarpa he was the maker of this particular incense in India. So I tell you, Josh, growing up in the jacket household.
This was a plenty. I just remember is this. Have you had this since I was about to this this exact bag?
Yeah. No, I've got hundreds of
what did you get a good deal when I was four,
and I bought to buy 100 or 200. And you're
speaking to me with it. It's like my steal like an artist books. No end up with them for a long time you end up gifting America. So
you're saying this is probably 10 1520 years old?
Oh, mo OV 40.
So you were like one up?
Wait. So how did this?
How did this come about? Joanne, How'd you end up with these incense?
Well, they they were used at the Gita School of yoga, where I attended and was trained and spent many, many years. And it was always wafting through the room. And when I left and started my own yoga school, I thought I want that wafting through my face. So I ordered it from India. Yeah, and good deal. Good deal.
The money you had to send the cash and
No, no, it was some sort of wire transfer. Yeah, it was like that. You had to go the bank and they very old school. Yeah. And anyway, you sent that off and then you wait, wait and wait. waited two years?
You think it's a scam?
I thought you know, I'm not gonna ever get this. How much cash Did you dry account? Remember was dead furious.
What did you do in the meantime? I mean, you didn't have any incense? Did you get some locally or
she went and bought a local budget. That's why this is only just come out because you bought another 200 bags of another shop? Yes, ma'am. You've been doing yoga. Well, before it was cool.
Well, cool in maybe, Melbourne, Australia, but Yoga has been around a long time.
Yeah, I guess what I mean, is it being hip? I mean, it's never been cool. And now to meditate to do yoga, and much of other stuff, but tho those two in particular, you've been doing for ever. You met dad at a yoga centre. Everyone thought he was gay? Because I thought who could be? Who's this guy going to yoga
when he was it? No, I will. I was.
Yes, Tim and Colin were avid students at the school. And I you know, Tim and I sort of connected and my, one of my beautiful teachers. She said to me, Oh, no, then I said, we had a very short engagement. It wasn't even engagement but a sort of friendship before I suddenly announced that we were getting married.
I got met they met and married within three months.
Yep. That's crazy quick. I mean, that's quicker than the incense.
Well, anyway, Eva, she said she's an Hungarian lady. And she said to me, have you tried it?
Listen, only seven. What man's talking about is six. Just
doing it like Bikram yoga.
Don't insult my mother. What does that make? We can get to that bullshit. So Batman's finishing his storey
storey. So she said have you tried and ethics stage? Hold on? I had to say no. This
is too much in
Holland, who was can't finish the storey.
Collins Bessemer. You've
heard this is one of those times where you've heard the show.
It's got nothing to do with our colons. The guy who we're going to get on the show is my dad's best dad, my dad.
I'm filling in the gaps with other colonies.
So anyway, that's really the end of the storey.
Calling was definitely there masturbate. Was there anything else with the storey? Oh, no, I'm just saying.
We proceeded with our relationship and we got married and 40 years we had a 40th anniversary. Well,
well survived in timber.
Yeah. And so dad, actually, so he started yoga school. And is do you think he and yourself? What do you think he's said? It was unusual? Like, obviously she's thinking, you know, as many men in that storey that
Eva in her wisdom, she said, Well, most of the men that do yoga again, which is lovely. I mean, the guys are always on to good shit. Yoga, sensitive, you say the greatest majority of people at that school and there were hundreds, mainly women, but there were men. And they were lovely men sensitive and progressive and just looking for something deeper than maybe what one can
and so how did you actually end up getting into Jaeger in the first place?
Well, that's another storey involved call it
will do a full half hour call and
I was a travel industry sales representative. What budget radical budget and this is back in the 70s. And I was calling on a on a hotel chain. And the woman there that was the representative at the Parmelee are actually in Perth. And she said to me, Joanne, you have a permanent frown on your face. You must do yoga. So do you think he did?
Probably what I mean there is about Mark Wahlberg has one but he's made millions of dollars out of it. Yeah, he's constantly like you know
don't tell someone to fuck off.
really wasn't you know my intention to you know, have a frown on the face.
Its resting bitch face almost do you know that? resting bitch face You know, people that just look a bit pissed and pissed off. There was something wrong with you.
Were you were you unhappy at that point?
No. Oh, probably a bit. You know.
It was some life was challenging in some ways, but I was ok. Anyway, she said you really must do yoga. She was a part time yoga teacher herself. And she rang up the key to school she's found out when the classes began. She said There you go. That a DA and I went along and I bought I bought in and I went along and from that day to this never look back.
So Gita they were there was a school here is that it was crossroad from our office. He says Gita yoga school.
Well, they're not there anymore. But that's not where I went. I was the principal of the Gator school. Retired in the 80s that was Margaret's again. She was my teacher. And the school then was in Alfred place of colon straight hundred colon straight. really unique and beautiful place it was it was a an oasis in the city. You know, and as a student I used to rush there from my corporate job. Breathe, you know, because it was all very Japanese minimalist, and stones on the floor and the studios were just so beautiful. Just
big spaces. There's definitely something in the incense that will burn in some kind
of Asana. So whatever it's called. And, and the funny thing is, you know, we had tradesmen sometimes coming into the school because I eventually worked. And they'd come in and they say, where all the chase Where are the sweeties down? Well, there was only the window check is successful in the office and in Margaret's office, but not in the studios were no chairs so everyone sat on the floor.
What were you doing at budget were you like behind? Were you booking out cars?
In the very beginning I was Yes, I was a rental representative and or hostess as we were called in. And I progressed from there to be a travel industry rep and then a corporate industry Rep. And then I was the the national training officer. So I had a wonderful job and Thank you Bob and set for
and Josie wonderful bosses. Bob has been an enormous influence in my life along with Margaret Sigismondi, my other wonderful yoga teachers but bob bob on the cat Botha Bob own budget. And so Bob answered his father, it was the founder of asset a wise, which is a man's best friend was Josie who is Bob's wife. And they work together. I've seen some old photos of them in the paper. My budget outfit.
Yeah. Was it a big deal when you left budget and was the first thing that you did? Did you go and do yoga full time? Well,
yeah, I Lyft budget to go to the work full time at the yoga school. And that's another funny little thing. One of the girls there she said to me, yoga. What sort of do you wear a habit? Now? Do you know what a habit is?
Like? a bad habit? He's got a couple
on your head. Like what
is a habit?
Well, the habits like it nuns were.
Swamis were habits. Yeah.
Holly Krishna is how is it a habit? Well, that's a good colour version. Yeah, they call
it a habit. So I mean, that was the sort of perception of going to work in a yoga school that you might wear the robes, you know? But my answer with today was no, I'll be wearing a sexy black,
which we all did we all wore
was faith involved faith. Religion was it like
it's not a religion, yoga is open to all religions. Religion, in its true sense is means a pathway toward liberation, you could say also a pathway to God, you want to and so religious, it does kind of follow the Hindu, some of the Hindu traditions and teachings most definitely the Bhagavad Gita, which is a renowned Hindu texts, it's actually the Hindu Bible. And that's a well known text to study and potentially is Yoga Sutras is another these are the classic texts takes around the teachings of yoga,
and then you go Buddhism,
well, just let me say, this
classic thing around you, which really teach you how to live, how to live a good and happy and, and fruitful life. And that that, of course, then is just encompasses so much
was that what drew you to yoga? Like was? Was it the the physical actions? Or was it more? Turning the friend
upside down? Yeah.
Well, I've always been drawn to some sort of physical action, because I did many years of ballet. But it wasn't just that no, it wasn't just that it what yoga encompassed, was actually the, the way to understand how to relax, how to relax deeply within yourself. And and of course, that's prerequisite for taking your studies and your practices further towards meditation.
This is something that people who aren't relaxed, gravitate towards is it like for you when you're not relaxed? I mean, you got told you had a frown.
But I don't think I was relaxed. I really don't think I was I was probably the biggest stress ball out.
I think I probably stuffed it up as well. When I came into this world, it's probably hard to relax. When I met. Yeah, when I was around. I mean, I'm still around what I'm saying. But growing up, but you know,
it was any childhood. Growing up, and parents, parental relationships, and, and boys, you know, experimenting and risk taking and rebelling and all those kind of things that that's natural. And of course, it impacts on you on your nervous system as a mother. But we're through yoga, I'm sure I was able to open up better,
and meditation. I mean, it was this. Was it a huge component of yoga when yoga was around 50 years ago.
Yeah, it was. Because I mean, a lot of places now and you can do mindfulness through yoga. So you kind of getting a taste of what meditation or mindfulness is, was. I know, meditates every single day hasn't missed a day. I always say, we should take a day off. Never. How many times? meditate?
Well, super straight, usually. Formerly, twice. But
what's the longest meditation? You've done? This flexing for mom? Yeah.
Well, I did an all day,
all day. Well, that's, that's with a group. And that was that's what you can do. But look,
why can you do it in a group versus on your right now?
Well, because you've had the setup, you go to a place you know, that's your intention to admit to do a meditation all day. But you do have breaks, you know, you you don't talk or anything. But purpose is to to go quite deep. And so you need to meditate.
So was was meditation hand in hand with yoga. 4050 years ago, it
was where I went to the yoga school. It definitely was that there was always an enormous emphasis placed around relaxing, because Margaret Sigismondi wrote a fantastic book called wings of power. And she tells her life storey in that book, and how she used relaxation when she was when she had terrible will. She had TB,
Yeah. And she lost one lung and half another lung. And breathing was really very tough. And she had to learn not to panic. Oh, God breathing with all
these incense going.
Surprised. It hasn't had a smell.
I'm, yeah, no one's had one yet. I just did a little.
Richard. Richard Janssen.
Miss Mr. 97, his heart of organised August has started to meditate. Oh, good. Now, one question. You're getting worried that you're falling asleep?
Yeah. Well, he lying down, you idiot. No, I still get no.
No, I will.
I remember, I remember, like the first five to 10 minutes of so I do like a 20 minute meditation, that's one that I do. And I remember the first five to 10 minutes, but then after that, it's just a blank. Until, until he mentions that, like, wake up and become aware of your surroundings. And that's when I come to say, all that's just blank, like,
maybe, but it's it's weird. Because I every time I've done it, I wake up at the exact or come to at the exact time when he says become where you started. So it's like, it's just a blank thing in my mouth, mind, for no idea what happens? You.
So use your mind never stop is meditation is a great tool to to train your mind, to come back to come back to come back. And because the thoughts are just, you know, I mean, after 40 years of meditating, I'm still coming back coming back, coming back to the, to the object of your meditation to to prayer, talking with God in the language of your heart, you know you mind requires it actually demands something to do. Because if it doesn't, what are you going to do, you're ruminating, you're going off into storeys, you're going off into thinking about a worry, which is worse about the past regrets, you know that the mind is amazing how it can bring up so much that you really don't want it to. So meditation and and I'll emphasise that before you, you meditate before you actually even embark on medication better to
take medication, medication, make
sure you take that medication, know,
learn to relax, learn to be familiar with your physical body. And
that's probably mindfulness. So I think because we've talked about the different between meditation and mindfulness, and mindfulness practices, a lot of these apps Sam Harris, it's, it's exactly that it's like, being able to remove the sense of having a body in the shape of it by channelling and focusing deeply on sensations tingling, and, and sounds and vision. So you're, it's like becoming aware, and mindful of the feeling of being in contact in, in consciousness? And is that what you're saying? Is that what you're saying about? So? Relax, you know, because people might not understand that and being in tune with your body? Is that what that is?
Yes. So you're not distracted by your body before you made it taste? If that's the all those other things you were talking about. They're like technique. Yeah.
So is that a technique to relax them?
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Because that's preparation for it for metal to let your body relax, but stay conscious See, in in relaxation, you go from a thinking and do it to feeling and be I like that those words around that because it it really is you're in when you're not relaxed. You're thinking and you doing when you when you go into relaxation, you just feeling and being
present, being very present.
Right? How can you? How can you do that? And try not for what four or five? Well practice?
Yeah, practice because if you practice it enough, and keep coming back, reminding yourself to wake up, coming back to that conscious state, but still feeling that relaxation in your body. Then you go beyond sleeping.
I definitely felt so you're sitting up. Yeah. Yes, it's it's so weird, because it doesn't feel like I've woken up afterwards. It's just like, one minute I can't remember anything. And then I come to me feel calm and you feel relaxed. Is it silent? Are they easy? prompting it with a little bit of prompting. So no, it's there are prompts and then he goes silent. And there's there's a bit of music playing in the background as well.
What sort of music or
not It sounds like flutes and some calming music sort of thing.
What's your favourite music to listen to?
I could listen to music for meditation.
What about your music of silence?
And so when you when you join the the Yo, like, the meditation versus the yoga, he doing it simultaneously? Or there's a there's a meditation and then a yoga? How does it work? Well,
if you practice Arsenal, Arsenal is the physical aspect of yoga. I mean, everyone calls yoga that calls us into yoga, but really in the truth in the true sense of the word yoga encompass and encompasses and the Eightfold Path. Starting I call it the spiritual pyramid. And starting at the bottom, you want to hear it Yeah, starting at the bottom, you have what we call the armas and these are Sanskrit words. The armas behaviours that like non violence non stealing their their
truths, like the 10 commandments, you just have to deal about stealing my chips. Please tell him to fix up his yes deal. Yeah. They were good. As he said he's been stealing my chips at work.
Oh, yeah. Okay, no, no stealing.
yummy, which, which disciplines that involve your own personal hygiene, and you your self study and that kind of thing. So really, they form the basis of the triangle of the spiritual triangle before you even start to go up to meditation.
So that's two when there's eight. The next one
is Arsenal, after Yama, Yama, Asana, you put your arms in the Amazon, you you never really have them in the bag, so to speak, because it's an ongoing life. maturation progression, you know, observing your behaviour, observing or you know, all that kind of thing, which is far too deep to go into now. But after those two, you go to our centre, which is that's the physical side of yoga where you do the all the postures that actually train your body and have a remarkable effect. When you do classical yoga, classes yoga, you have postures that work on the endocrine gland system, and in turn subtly on the chakras.
And my son's actually got them tattooed up his back. Mm hmm. Right.
And you could
honour in a lot of ways. arsenic can be a very effective meditative practice. Because you you're in the present, you are mindful, you're thinking about your body, you're thinking of releasing tension when when it's appropriate, and so forth. Anyway, after arsenic comes Pranay, Yama, which is the Sanskrit word for life force energy, or breathing breath, you can say that you, you learn to control the life force within your body. And then another the after that is practice Hara, which is the withdrawal of the senses. Now in the in our everyday world, we are so stimulated by our senses, sight, smell, taste, etc. We are just so keyed into that. And we have we form an attachment to those senses. So fundamentally, we have an attachment to our senses, and the material world and the physical body. And that's one of the things in the, in the real teachings of yoga, that we need to go beyond
with that at attachment Was that something that even all those years ago was a focus, because if you look at now and how much like sensory overload we had, what was the equivalent? Back then what was that? Like? Obviously, now, it's about scrolling on Instagram. And look,
it was no different. Actually no different. There's always there's always been something it may not have been as fast moving as we are now. But there's always been something we've always had a mind. We've always had worries, we've always had concerns. We've always had competition. And and so it's never been any different. Really,
were there certain things. Like don't spend too much time reading the newspaper, like was that like, what's that? Oh,
well, when TV came in, that was, that was the words, cinemas were going to close down the film industry wasn't ever going to, you know, have another, make another film. And then children watching TV, that was the end of children, you know, they know having being able to watch TV. So it was it's never been any different. There's always something so but we as as humankind with this amazing gift of the physical body, which it is a gift. And it's mechanisms. If you spend time to just think about how your body works. It's miraculous
about making a human like it's crazy to me right now. Yeah, it's amazing. It's it's phenomenal. I mean, it's almost every human being that he's alive is super, I mean, lucky, or it's a miracle for it to have happened. Oh,
absolutely. And you think that those cells that divide to make the eyes, the eyelashes, the fingernails, if those cells don't divide in the right way,
something goes wrong. I mean, it's it. That is probably something Josh, having a kid, you admiring your handiwork, like looking at yourself, like looking at the sun sniffing him and, you know, just looking at the little nails. Like, I think that's probably one thing. Because if you did that to my son, but when you can do it to your own kid, it's pretty fascinating. That's when you that's a feeling that hits you.
Yes, children are just so beautiful. JB
was Tommy like, so we've heard that he got some several storeys, I
don't want to stop, we've got seven said to her, is the withdrawal of the senses, learning to turn off the sense stimulation from the outer world and turn inward. So that's the beginning of meditation to, and then you have concentration. So concentration is then taking an object and being able to focus your mind completely upon that object. And then you have piano out, which is the next layer. And that's meditation. But that's bringing concentration to the point where you then turn your focus of concentration toward God, or towards the absolute towards whatever you perceive something greater than you. And then the very pinnacle of the triangle is what they call somebody. And that is police, the police state, but look, never be told that anyone really experiences that. I mean, you may, we may have a glimpse of it, we may have. And I do take that back, because some people still don't want to have a glimpse of that totally blissful state
was fleeting, though, because I've asked you before because I think the the modern, yo, the modern meditation movement, is people talking about I've experienced moments of psychedelic feelings in moments. And I asked you that I say, Have you ever experienced like a, you know, that kind of thing. And you kind of push back on that a little bit.
Which, right, because it's a very private thing. But when you say that psychedelic, that's, that's not, that's something else, it's, it's more ego,
it's a bit I'm not talking about taking substance to achieve that on stage, I'm talking about meditation,
well, that's why would take substances when you can do it naturally.
And if you experience something like that, and beliefs
we did, so as a person,
it is a personal thing, but I can't say that, look, I have beautiful moments of stillness and communion with God and, and a guru too. So I think that's all you can ask in this in your life, to just have those moments and to keep going, and to keep deepening that because, you know, you're not gonna really do you do it in a lifetime. We have many lifetimes and if you're lucky enough, or blessed enough, is a better word, to actually be born in into a situation where you're able to study where you're able to go to yoga, where you're able to go and, and have a teacher who's going to inspire you. All those things just come together. Because it's the right time for you. I think it's probably
the people who market or share their experience of beliefs in these moments. It's probably yes. Mr. It's a marketing tool. I
think it's ego as well. It's probably similar to having a Rolex, you can say, Look, I'm getting blessed every weekend.
Well, yeah. Because then it's like, if you're someone who's done meditation for, you know, a very long time, and you're not out here saying, Yeah, you get it like, you could probably I see the appeal that some people would have, like, I want to go to you because you were talking about this, you know, it's
it's the spiritual path is not an easy one. And the path towards meditation with your life Macedon, calling it that or not, it's
a spiritual path. Do you think people who call themselves spiritual are probably not as spiritual? I've heard, I've heard that before. But
that's, that's the thing, you know, I just don't think you need to make that judgement and look after your own backyard. Get your own sort of heart and mind in order. You don't have to worry about what other people are doing because it's enough work to do on yourself. And, you know, I'm not saying that. I know, I categorise myself as a beginner. You know, it's, you never stop learning to be a beginner is a wonderful, wonderful thing. Because you always learn you're always learning something new to be open, and receptive to new things. And on this path, there's always something new because you're learning about yourself and and more and more, and having children. Well, now we can get on to Tommy.
Good. I have no bad things to say about Tommy. Bullshit.
Say that he has been one of my teachers, as all my mates, all my children. I'm learning daily, from my children, and from students and from friends. And it's from the podcast I
learned from Josh at all. Yes, she learned she learned was what you could do. Good. What did you mom tell us? What did you think it costs the moment? She said don't say
that God. Has that got anything to do with a gang?
It's true origins. So what was the what was some of the times that you had to practice? Patience? When bringing up Tommy Keaton later on?
Thanks. Yeah, I can't attend the is called babies calling?
I it doesn't occur to me to bring up these things.
Because shout out a lot from my child shouting
it out. Tommy is a beautiful man. And a beautiful soul. As we all know, everyone as a beautiful soul. And you have to see the soul in see the soul is so perfect. whole and complete. And and it's just this outer personality come ego that plays up a bit, you know, now all that's in the past. And you just look forward, and
she hasn't given you the answer you want. You're gonna be more specific with the question. What
do you really want? And I don't know nothing particular. No, I'm just
he's always been a gorgeous person and a gorgeous guide, you know, outside
of me. So I think it's interesting, because, I mean, TJ shares a lot of storeys about him being
a little shit.
Yeah, I think it nobody was very hard for you, ma'am. I think growing up like it was there was a lot of pain and you knew stuck by during that and helped me and I, you know, it's why I'm who I am today, but it's as I get it, when it's hard to just recall. I think that's, you know, there's many storeys the time I had to get my stuffy put down with the daughter at the back. Yeah, the time, you know, just silly. I mean, there's lots of storeys from when I was young, but I think this stuff around the teach it like it's very, it's, um, it's, I'm pretty sensitive to a lot of the things from my past. Yeah,
well, you are kind of rebellious. And always, you know, it's such a spirit, really, but even growing up, that spirit is really, sometimes misdirected. And you can, you know, that's where the ego and comes full force, you know, into, into a
child, what is it armour, like, the child so then you
get defensive and that defensiveness causes you a whole lot of other stuff. So, you know, Pete, teachers, were a little bit
wary of you always spoke about sue the other day, the one that you had the confrontation in the book,
so I think it's time to
get you to do it.
She's not, she
listens. She probably seen someone else. Yeah,
Some teachers just don't get it. Yeah.
Look at the teachers at Clunes. Now, when he was at Clunes Indian, year nine is traditionally a really difficult time.
And so a lot of schools in the boys ship them off, ship the kids off for a month or a term. It's like you know, the years you're going to rebel, let's get them into something.
And that that environment took you out of the traditional school behaviour into an environment which said, Okay, you've got autonomy here, you've got to do this, you've got to do that. And that's what you thrived on. And the principal at cloned said to me Tommy wasn't just good he was.
But they also thought I was going to be the worst. They
think that there's I feel like growing up there were there was kids who were naughty. And sometimes there was those cases where it's the parents who are laissez faire or a little bit sort of relaxed about the whole thing. You see the teachers getting frustrated? Do you think there was a bit of that where you could see the song, you could see the spirit, you could say that part of Tommy, and who the other people were judging him on that ego or the outer shell?
Well, they had to it is their job to keep pace in a classroom and to make sure that the rules are followed, and all that kind of stuff. So look, they've got a hard job, teachers have a hard job. And, you know, I don't really blame them, I suppose I can say for how they are because they're dealing with a whole classroom of different personalities and trying to make the best of it. But look, that's all
What does discipline mean? Like, if you think about how you actually work through all those sort of things, what what does discipline mean to you?
Well, disability, I refer to discipline as a best friend. Because through discipline, you, you come out of suffering. And, and it teaches you to live well in the world, not discipline, like mommy discipline, or anything but self discipline. And that it's very good to have self discipline.
So if there's, if there's a parent listening to the show, that has a son or daughter who is in the school system, or they're out and about in the hearing, the things that you heard with Tommy growing up with some of those friction points of you know, him not fitting in being different to other people. How, how do you think they should? cope? Or how did how did they communicate? How did they get your point of view across? How do I reconcile?
Okay, well, you've got to realise from the start that time passes. And that's got a big thing to do with it, but you've just love just, you know, Show the love, Show the love to your children. Don't put them on, don't put them on a spot in so many ways that they have to conform and everything but show the love and and be that be that the example to your children as to how they should be, they will catch on.
It's a I mean, I think about me being into meditation now. I'm not into your I don't do yoga, but I've done it many times across my life. But it's definitely think about. I don't think I was highly disciplined or anything as a kid. But you're saying work on your own backyard. And that's you providing an environment for me and loving environment. And so like I mean, all those things, right? So what's the thing to do for discipline kibosh, you fucking have a marriage that is falling apart, and you are fighting and hating on each other, and not showing a loving environment which is in it's all it's got its own challenges. And so I you know, I can understand, but if that's the example that a kid has, you could imagine how it's not it's going to rattle the child. And so that's where I think, as much as I was a little shit and had my own challenges. My environment was
amazing, you know, but do you think people think that kids acting out are reflecting on something that's happening at home? Do you think that that's like a mainstream point of view? So
kids that act out have a bad home? Yeah, I don't think I don't think it's I don't think it's I don't think it can be the go to thought maybe maybe it does, maybe people do think that I've been I don't think it's correct, because kids can be kids, like I look at my son, and how much of a little spirit he has, and, you know, Mr. First, and naughty and fun and happy and loving, like all these things. So I think he's got all of those elements of what I've had. So if he starts misbehaving, and they look to us,
what are you saying that such situation? If it turns out babies having trouble in school, or is fighting or things like that? How do you? I
mean, I, one woman said something about Bodie. And I said, so what? How are you going to handle this?
Because it's the parents responsibility
for what I mean, how can I hand like this thing? How can I like so if I'm not there? And I say, this is an environment of school system? How have you handled this in the past? Surely this is not an educator, like there's no edge case in school systems anymore, is the kids are being naughty. And
it is a shame that the things that happen at home, or the the respect and all those sort of things that then translate into other environments. So isn't the idea that if it starts at home, if the like, I feel like when I was younger, when if there was people playing up, it was normally the conversation always led to, he doesn't have XY,
just looking to blame someone?
Josh blaming nothing. We do have this responsibilities and parents to do as best as possible, but we can't talk about it at a mass scale that if kids misbehaving blame the parents at home because they fucking Is there
a response to it like you defaulted to? It's a teacher's responsibility.
moment, if someone said that, and I've said, Okay, so how are you going to handle this in a school environment? What are the steps you're going to take here?
But that's not a reflective, self reflective approach
now, but I'm also trying to gauge what the understanding, is it justice? Is this a moment where someone is just passing blame, in their way of communicating?
Trying is how can I understand not What are you doing?
Well, yeah, I think with a teacher, for instance, is to say, Well, how can we work together with this, to help overcome this problem, that this behavioural problem? I don't know whether teachers would be open to that. But it is very important that there's communication, loving communication. And another thing is with with children, that may be a little bit challenging. You must have parental agreements, you know, like, you can't just this happened with you wasn't just me, handing out discipline. It had to be well, we're all doing this together, you, me and dad. And that's what happens. That's when, you know, there's unity there. And there's that agreement and strengthen unity. They know when you're coming from the same place. Hmm, that makes sense. Yeah.
Yeah. And I don't think what I'm saying is, that's the end of the conversation. It's understanding how a daycare a school, implement discipline, and then understanding how it's done at home, because they're going to be different. You know, a parent implementing discipline is different to how school doesn't obey the shit out of my son. Now, I'm JY. That's what I'm saying. It's not as easy as just having me telling you that, what do you do? And then that's the end of that conversation is OK, this is kids, the kids there there is be naughty kids and every kid in between going to any school across the world or dictate daycare or whatever. And so there is like, educators learn this stuff. They taught. Yeah. elements, the psychology the elements. And so how do we Kenya and this is why things like the naughty corner and detention these things are actually created, right? Because it's not fucking a normal
that they were that they were the system. They're the systems are put in place to try and manage discipline, though. Yeah,
it is disciplined systematised discipline,
but then it needs to translate to home as well, of
course. I mean, if a kid is just left to their own devices, and is out all night, when the you know, just a young young child, like I remember, the kids are in some kids ran down. Some of the kids you know, roaming the streets, though they were and now we're naughty. And so you could easily say that. Okay, that's a that's a destructive path for a parent to go down. And so, but I don't think it's as easy as just handing out blind,
right. So I got to be very careful with blind. I don't like the blame game. What
about personal responsibility? What about like, so if I had a kid, I think if I had a kid I was in, they were misbehaving at school? My instinct would be, what am I doing? What do I need to do to help this? What am what am I doing? What am I not fostering? So there's love, but is that is there hard love, which is like, you know what you're tough love, which is, you know, I can be loving, but you have to get up at this time, and you need to be ready, and you actually need to wear the correct shoes to school? Because that's what we've set out.
Yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, let's just let's
be parenting. Yeah, yeah.
Because parents have to be not only a parent, but a teacher, to come to the children, not only a parent, but a teacher to their children. And it involves law. It does involve a lot. And you have to have restraint, of course, as a parent as well, because times can get very, very, very difficult. We're all human. You know?
I was meditating. Sorry.
No, it's interesting. I think that. Yeah, the, I think growing up, I think about like the bullies in school. And it was always leave. Yeah. I think like, the interesting. I think a lot of people I think, like, for me, my frustration was always that it felt like there was there'd be a dynamic where the kid would go and come into school, and the parents would defend him in like, you know, he's so good at home or this is hot like this is. And it was, and it felt like he that the parents had fostered a relationship with their child. Bit there was the lack of self reflection, it felt in those moments of being like, Look, this is coming into school and this x, y and Zed happening, maybe we should be actually doing something I I just know the conversations, having them with teachers, which is like, yeah, unfortunately, like, we bring this, you know, Josh, it so sorry, that you have to go through, you know, this bullying, unfortunately, the, you know, there's, there's, the changes aren't happening. So, yeah, I think it's, um, it's an it's an interesting one.
I mean, make sense, about how you approach this kind of stuff? And that's totally fine. I think. It's, it's an experience you've had, but it's not the written in stone experience. You know, like, I think about I think about my situation, I had teachers lying about shit. Remember, when Ken Burns hit me on the head, like, Okay, thank you, Fox probably did hobbies, man, sorry. But hit me on the head and see how emotionally triggering his childhood memories right? So you I, I see the physiological change in you when you talk about being bullied. Right? And it's like, it's, it's, it's at a time where we're so sensitive. And so that's where I have empathy, not for the bully, but for the, the, the time that we're all going through that time, because I went through a tough time, right? I don't think I was bullying the kids. I the teachers definitely were struggling to have me in their, in their environment, their what they wanted, as far as that, that environment.
Well, they couldn't cope.
They couldn't cope. And there was a bunch of kids that can't cope. And maybe it's the school system. That's not right for them. But I remember, teach some teachers flat out denying sheet. And then like what that does? And he said, No, no, of course he did. But he smashed me in the back on the top of the head like that. He's someone he was the vice principal. It was fun. And so it's okay.
Yeah, that's it. See, I always believed I always believed him. He never told lies. Did you know
he wasn't I wasn't getting I wasn't going to the principal's office for you know, teasing some Quito punching some of the fights. It was always just had a lot of friends pushing the boundaries. In fact, it just been all the
off that one. So you know, other kids liked you. Huh?
Yeah, it's the financial
system gallon cash, cash,
man. It's engine. It is interesting. I think like the the teacher stuff is interesting. Because Isn't that like, what is the responsibility of a teacher as well? Like they are
the big undertaking? And that's, that's why they have they have a lot of responsibility. And just just, it's an undertaking of responsibility, whether they like it or not, but if
you got 24 kids, I guess the hard part is that it's the what, if you've got 24 kids that you're looking after, then becomes a prioritisation based on everyone needing to be sort of similar or sort of acting? Certainly way to be out. Yeah,
you want kids to conform? Because if you were to go, I could imagine if I was a teacher, what how would you want your day to go, I'd want my day to go smoothly. I'd want my day to not have too many hiccups and little sheets, throwing sheet around the room. So I can be at peace. And that's a personal, like, you want your day to go nicely. As as any job you do, I don't want to me he got and so there's not much difference. When you're a teacher. Yeah. And so when someone is throwing a spanner in the works, like me, and I was physically throwing Spanish now, but if you were, it's going to throw off what you want it to be a nice day. So then that requires a level of problem problem solving.
And they're probably not being their best self.
Yeah, somebody lies and they have their issue. Yeah, yeah, it's human beings, teachers have their own personal issues Exactly. That is triggered by the behaviour of a child or come up against something, a kid who has been bullied, who then becomes a teacher than then sees kids being bullied, what are they going to do? How would you feel you wouldn't really have empathy for the bully? Because you You understand? And maybe you would, but I think the initial reaction wouldn't be to have empathy, because you've seen. And so this is we're complex creatures. And it's like looking, I
think there was a lot like, for me, I remember like some of the book, like, there was always a store, I found that every bully that I had had a storey one, his mom passed away when he was young. And I felt like there was and so I end up empathising with all of these people. But in reflection, I wonder about the empathy that's coming the other way as well. Like what's hear from her? Well, I guess from that bullies that like so I'm, I'm having to in that moment, be empathising with them based on behaviour. That's not great. And so I wonder, when, when I'm taking that approach as a as a kid, then it feels like there is more of an opportunity, rather than saying, This is, I'd be asking the teacher what they're doing. It would be, they seems like they can be more work on the other child as well to work out what what it is. And it may be it means a different style of schooling, maybe it means that the conformity doesn't work. I think a lot of there's probably a lot of kids that are on ADHD medication based on not conforming or fitting in.
Because I mean, that that was something that teachers said I had. Yeah. And it's and it's probably record, and I probably think it's there's some sensitivity to be sensitivities now, because it's like, you just can't call someone you can't call someone and add, you know, like, if a teacher said, Oh, he's probably got a day, you know, that. We're pretty progressive. Now. It'd be, there's probably a way to direct it without being rude. But I but I get it. It's, I think, Josh, you're a different creature. It's why you hung out with teachers, its most kids aren't being empathetic to a kid situation. like for you to even consider this kid in his mom's storey. It's like, That's fucking adult thinking. It's amazing. It and that's why I think you are so unique. And, and you've had a different pathway the most,
it's, I think it's like, interesting to think of everyone, like we all have different versions of childhood and not so I think, I guess that's why it's like, it's, I think it's also it's almost like a religion, it's like, that's why people are so funny about how they bring up their kids. Because it is such a unique experience. And I just know that growing up, it was a wish show. And so it would just discipline their kid.
You know that? Yeah. What does it even mean? Like, I mean, it's that you, you, you want your kid to conform. And it's, it's so
like, for the parents of the kids are being bullied? It's like,
trying everything under the sun? What if they were actually, if you just gave them the benefit of doubt that they were actually disciplining their child? And it just wasn't?
Yeah, that's what I wonder. I mean, that's what the interesting thing is, isn't it? It's like, what's the what's the answer? I don't know what the Yes, I think personal responsibility, what is personal responsibility? There's the child, but are they old enough or mature enough to have a level of thinking about I think
this is the problem, right? And then it all ends, your friend kills himself. You know, that was my one of my best friends did that. And he was a key to misbehave. He had his hardships is growing up as a kid and family stuff. But at what point does it and what how do you were trying to fix kids, right, by disciplining them? Or what point is it just, I think I grew out of a lot of shit. And I
was it about fixing or is that like, so say for instance, if it's the if it's about if it's the spirit and where and Joanne, you mentioned like Tommy sort of a spirit sometimes was misguided, not misguided, but sort of, you know, if it was misdirected, yeah, then it feels like misdirection implies that there's potentially some form of external force that is moving that across whether it's PS or things like that, so then it feels like there is something that we can do to guide our kids spirits.
Well, you have to but it's not just, and this is harking back to, to the philosophy of yoga, and it's not just all happened in this life, you know, you reincarnation teaches us that every life we have, every incarnation we have, we bring with us certain issues that we've had to deal with, in other lives now. And it's not us. It's not my body. That's reincarnated. It is the soul. But it's terribly complex. But it it is, it's all in that memory in in this in the memory, there, the cellular memory that comes across from past lives. And this line, look you can talk for
imagine, because imagine teaches the being a lot of teachers not resonating with like talking like a carnation or something.
I said Bodhi and I see his spirit, whatever you want to call it. He's had it from day one. He's little cheeky, like nice. If you can see that in him, right. And there's this fire and I look at my friends are troublemakers. And there is something unique about all of them. And it's a restlessness. And I think like careem, my best friend, he, we went through a lot of tough times together just those restless years of being a teen and doing bad shit and coming out the other side of it. And we look at each other like fuck, man, we so nice that we survived that. Because there's a lot of people around me that killed themselves growing up. And it's like, I just know, they were all unique. I can, every person that is that has done that to themselves. They were unique individual. And they were bigger than what they thought that was the spirit about them was unbelievable. And they were misbehaved and treat people badly. But it's like, it's like they couldn't they couldn't deal with it. So what is the answer? Do?
No. And so look, as coming back to being a parent, you have to remind yourself over and over again, that it's their journey. You can guide them, you can teach them. But in the end, it's their journey in this lifetime that they're on. Or we that I mean, that's the thing is, and things have to play out. And there's a lot in there.
There's culture and community. Yeah. And so the the fact that there was so many sort of those negative things to happen in that time, what do you think? What in reflection? What do you think it was? Why were people killing themselves? Why what? What What do you think it was?
I mean, I yeah, I mean, mental health is one thing. But I think I mean, it it's that I mean, I was there right? Being restless and and just the unknown of just you know, it's it's a difficult journey to get through those teen years. You know, if you don't find something if you don't,
I found something. Remember what the first thing you found? No, it was a kickboxing. kickboxing. Really?
Yeah. And I mean, I did a lot of pray.
A lot of prayer ages of all changed at this point as well.
Yeah. And when you pray, you don't pray, Please, God make Tommy a good boy. You pray, you open your heart to receive that. That prayer that goes out the divine grace guides him that he wakes up that whoever you're praying for, it's not our will. It's God's will. And vain, that person that you crying for needs grace to wake up? And, you know, it worked.
Yeah, it didn't work for a bunch of your friends, I guess somewhat like,
been prayed. Yeah. I mean,
it doesn't it's, it's irrelevant. Like I think it regardless of whether you believe praying for someone helps or not, there is a thoughtfulness in it. It's like you're putting it out into the universe, or whatever you want to however you want to look at.
Because if you continue to worry about that person and be concerned with you see where they go thought, there goes energy, where your thoughts are, that is where your consciousness is. So if you choose to just go along and worry, worry, worry, worry, you could, in a way, attract the negativity that you're trying to not attract. So so with what I say about prayer is that you put in a positive energy into the healing of the situation, no matter what it is,
is it is that as much about the the action or things that you bring into the physical world, after the prayer as it is.
Everything, everything is integrated. Everything in everything is interwoven in life. And you don't pray rote prayers, either you pray in the language of your heart.
It is in people to bring in, like even conspiracy, Jimmy, like, I've got friends that I've been friends with forever. Race, Mitchell, like these are all people that when these hard stuff happened, we were together. We talked a lot. And you know, we were young, smoking weed, talking about our thoughts. And like, it was bizarre. And I actually look at those times, probably as much as you hated those times. I think about what I'm into now. And those conversations I still have with those people. We're talking about our thinking and what's happening and what like it's, it was we're all very philosophical was hyper thought what we were into back then, which was, I think, lucky, because if you're alone with people around you, that aren't ever going to be chatting about these things. But you thinking them, you need to get it out somehow. Yeah.
Well see, that's great. Michael, yeah, rice that you were with people that cared about you and that, just willing to listen, and so on. So you can see your life
a journey of opening to grace in your life, just open to the grace, because everyone is worthy of that. Everyone is where the
is that part of maybe even Tommy's pushback before on people to certain people not being prayed for or whatever is that part of it, which is like, it is something that should be that universal thing that, you know, like it things bad things happen to really great people. And so how does, how does that fit within your faith or the thoughts on prayer?
You just have to accept that acceptance is another wonderful tool of survival. No matter what situation you're in, you don't want some things to happen, of course, but things happen. You know, people die, people have all sorts of things happen. And to survive all that you need to have an attitude of acceptance. But where do you go with that acceptance? You know, that's where faith comes into it really enormously, that you have some way to go with that. You have a place of refuge to go to. And it's that in that place of refuge, that
healing can happen and grace comes to you.
What do you think of personal responsibility and personal discipline? How do you what do you think about
Oh, I didn't say city. absolute necessity. It's part of its their the armas. And you can't expect if you're, if you want to meditate, achieve some sort of experience of meditation and communion with with the divine. You can't do that if you're going out and hurting people are physically mentally or emotionally. You can't, it just doesn't go with it. You know, you can't just change from being harmful in some way or, and then thinking you go sit there and, and experience God in meditation, it just doesn't go. That's why that's why the Eightfold Path is very important to know about
how do you uncover those blind spots that we have?
Mike, if I guess, you know, I was at a cafe today. And this guy was it was Jerry's cafe. Now what are the ice to PT really is a bit of a wine car. And I actually, I read the reviews, they're coming thick and fast. We literally went down the straight to someone's house who will filming and they said, Are you a lot of problems.
I used to try and train him and once he rocked up, he's wearing jeans shirt. He just can't tell me it wasn't trying. But he's still patting myself on. Anyway, I literally
I went to get a cut. The reason why I called the length is because I got up and he walked in, and he straightaway says, How would you like it? And I was like, it was I just sort of walked in. So it was all a bit like okay, and so I said on my son, what do you want? Am I got one hot chocolate, and I was thinking of my almond flat wine. And I my almond milk wonderfully gonna have almond milk, I say, and almond, flat white. And then I want to say thanks. And then he's like, how about a place? And I was like, Okay, here we go. And anyway, so like we said, I said, and it was, as I was saying thanks that he said, How about place to be so sad to have, but then I just saw the interactions of everyone else who had gone into the shelter. I mean, it was literally saying that. Yeah, there was two people waiting. He said I was just on the phone to the accountant. So So yeah, so he was set off. But my point is that you've got people like that Andrew probably doesn't know that he's a bit of a deacon.
Or, you know, you have to
bless him. Just Just bless it. Don't let things like that. disturb your peace.
Yeah, well, I think that's, that's my next is
no need to, you know, sort of be reactive.
Please, man, I have my whatever. Yeah,
I mean, it's hard, because that will set them back more than the last year.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it is hard. Like I know some stuff about him just what he told me. But it's been a even just non personal. Yeah, just what's happened and I got that vibe from him. And so how do you how does maybe he's not aware. Or maybe he's aware, maybe he maybe he hasn't taken the time to think about the person. He's with behaviour,
how he comes across introspection. This is another whole thing. introspection, self self, reflection, reflection. Very important. And people like that. They sort of probably never heard of their.
My point is, like, the blind spots. Yeah, he's living his life. And he's having such a risk. Yeah. And I guess that's part of it, which is just like, it's I guess it's disappointing when you like you see? Because you can see how that I guess the next step is getting to a point when that doesn't affect your day. Mr. nine, seven, you're affected by it. Right? Yeah. Yeah, it did trigger. I mean, it was more just like, everything that he was doing was outrageous. It's just, it was just triggering. But
I mean, like it's
real, if I didn't, suffering is soft.
He's been in his translate. But he's been translating that stuff. Right?
Pick it up. If you allow, if we're as reactive as the people that are around us, it's going to be a shift for us. Yeah. So if, if we were to be triggered by everybody else has done shit. Yeah. How to live in this world. And maybe that's what he he's right. He's thinking you looking back and being slow with his order? You know, he's ready. triggered. Right. And then he gotcha. Well, I think part of it.
Not expected, I guess that's part of it's like, oh, there's and, and I, I think in the world, we're interacting with people less and less. Like we there's less and less social interaction going on. And maybe that's because we don't Yeah, I think like in regards to personal face to face, we go on, we get our Uber rates we don't like and so I guess part of it is it's like it's easier to not have the interaction than it is to the self reflection of dealing with someone else's shit.
It's interesting. You create the one on one.
And you work on your own back. Yeah, because that's what he needs to do. Yeah, it's like what I've done. I've been working on me on that last thing, ma'am. Yes, fire. I spent a lot of time as a kid with one hand in the bucket. Yeah, you could say you could discipline me so nice. OD I can't really I just remember I love like I just like it. I mean, I just like playing in fire sheet. I've always loved fires building fires. Did it out in the backyard. I'm so lucky. I had that upbringing you know to be able to have a fire in a house in Brighton in the backyard that was big enough now kids are growing up in apartments but my point being What do you remember what what it was about why I loved fire? What? Like I was always burning myself always
Yeah, well that was that was a byproduct it I mean most kids enjoy fire Mikey was a fire. Yeah.
But Josh, you enjoy fire?
Yeah, fire. Yeah, Fire. Fire.
Fire is almost symbolic. You know, you have to have a fire in your belly, you do stuff and fires fended off big animals. years ago, and being around a fire is a sense of community. I love this enough this saying in in yoga, tap, pass you not Tap, tap pass you that's fire that burns all your all the impurities of your character and, and behaviour. That's, you know, another symbolic thing fire. Very important.
But he did to
me when the kid burned down the playground across the road
Who was Michael RIPO is not with us anymore. I mean, I've been doing this since I was about two.
I've currently got a lighter
gas in the air. And
before we go, you're an author.
Yeah, mom's got a book on the table.
Tell us tell us about the book. It's called peaceful living with prayer and meditation, Joe and jack?
Well, these prayers just just came out of my own meditation. And my, if you read it, you will know more about me. Because, you know, in times of challenge, I turned to, to talking to God
and Tommy minutes in the book.
I got my name and they don't know you. It's dedicated. There's no specific prayer to that little shield
of troubles in it. So
it's, it's the Oh, and along with the prayers. See, the main the main objective of the book was to use prayer as a stepping stone towards stealing the mind and body for meditation. So with every prayer, there, there's a an instruction as to how to breathe and just as calm and use the phrase use the word it's in the prayer to just calm down and just sit still and, and have a little bit of time. Now.
Do you have a favourite one that you could rate us on our team to in the shower?
Well, I think one that I can read in impersonal and universe.
We won't let miss the 97 right at that's for sure.
Would you like me to read it? Yes by
Yeah. This is an audible page. It's on page four. This is the daily talk show original spoken and written by Joanne
jacket. Do you want the instructions first?
Sure. I'll read the heading for you. Okay, a prayer for our planet Earth.
very trendy. Yeah.
Do you want to relax and be still be? Yeah, baby. Yeah, yeah. Okay, relax, and be still as you feel this pressure coming from the heart. So these words, not with a sense of worry, or anger or frustration. But rather with a sense of trust and belief. I feel that the love for our planet earth and all sentient beings is placed in God's care. And that we as humankind, will respond to what is required of us to make our world and the planet a better place.
And so the prayer,
My prayer is for our planet Earth. I pray that all humankind become aware of the need to appreciate what we have, and not to keep wanting what we do not need. I pray that we see the beauty in the world that is here for us. And to know that this world is precious world needs our love, care and just like us as individual human beings. Help us to open our eyes and see with compassion and love. What needs to be done. And guide our reason, will and action always towards the highest and the best. Or our planet and all sentient beings. Thank you, man.
Wake up my son. Nice. Beautiful. Thanks, Mama.
My pleasure. Thank you. Thank
you. Thank you for coming on the show. And thank you for the
seven and do for the sticks.
I have it. Can we keep this bag here? Yeah, man. She's trying to just be clever. She worked Marie Kondo.
Get rid of a few things around the house. Hi, the daily talk show.com his email address. Did you have any final words? Anything you want to say? No.
I might have somebody say I thought I'd just say that. Your new haircut looks great. Yeah.