#788 – Ryan Shelton On Feedback & Creating Short Film LOOPHOLE/
- July 12, 2020
Ryan Shelton is back with a new ryyyyyyyyyyyan.com video, LOOPHOLE. We chat about creative endeavours, building something for yourself, creating an enjoyable life for yourself, meditation and mindfulness, and taking on feedback.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
– Ryan’s new short film, LOOPHOLE
– Ad lib and scripting
– Ryan’s apology video
– Enjoying the process of performing
– COVID-19 and an excuse to create
– Funding, money and creative endeavours
– Creating outside of TV
– The future of Ryan’s videos
– Bettering yourself and bettering your outcome
– Being playful with your art and creativity
– The good life
– Midlife awakening
– Meditation and mindfulness
– You aren’t your work
Watch LOOPHOLE: https://ryyyyyyyyyyyan.com/
Ryan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryansheltonography/
Email us: firstname.lastname@example.org
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business, and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
It's the daily Talk Show Episode 798 Ryan Shelton.
Welcome back to The Star buddy.
I mean, I'm bit disappointed with this give me
Yes. Give me the skivvies off
if you're watching the visuals Ryan's got no top on your chest looks great. Yeah.
Yeah. I've always said skinny on nothing. And tonight
so we just watched your latest rye in.com I love when I go.
I go to the website I literally go are and then I say then I get the Y canes and 1-234-567-8910 11am confit. But I have to I have to say that lie otherwise I won't get there.
I think that was the point wasn't it? Is that what no
it's great. It's just gonna come through. It's like a fun little game. If you're a dummy like me, I'm like, This is fun.
Anyway, love it loophole. loophole. Yeah. loopholes. Yes, I came out yesterday and and it's it's probably meant for those who don't know what what I'm talking about at the start of the year I set up a website which is, like you said, just tell me like Ryan with 11, wise calm. And I sort of set this goal for myself to release something on the 11th of every month. And just for the purpose of giving myself a goal or some sort of self discipline so I could actually make things because I'm just happiest when I'm making things and I often just find stupid excuses like Coronavirus or some like in line thing like that. And so, anyway, but so this year, it's just been the best thing because it's meant that it's forced me to make a bunch of stuff and the slightest thing loophole is is probably the biggest thing of I've done on the website. So,
so this was actually 2018 you did the filming, was it?
Yeah, end of 2018. So when when you watch it and you say it's like hugging and you know, talking at 1.4 metres apart, just know that it was well before COVID. But yeah, it's just it's been one because it's longer, it's like 35 minutes long. And we shot it on like proper cameras and sort of did the proper process even though there was only five of us, and we didn't have any money or anything, no funding or anything. So, it just meant that over sort of over the year, like a year last year, myself and Ben Timoney, who is the director, he and I just kind of edited wherever we could just in between our normal jobs. And, and then yeah, then just decided that I'd put it out on July 11. And sort of sped up the process is it was it excruciating holding on to something that he's doing Write for so long.
I mean, do you start telling yourself a story about what will actually end up being like?
It's a it's Well, it's interesting acts well, interesting to me. Might not be interesting. But for a long time because I filmed it so long ago, and I only had the idea for Ryan come at this at sort of the end of last year. For a long time. I wasn't really sure.
Pronunciation just pronunciation sorry.
Yeah, my, my pronunciation is a little bit off. But yeah, in that year before, like, between filming and having the idea for the website, I wasn't sure how I would actually put it out and I had like a bunch of like, weed ideas. Like I wanted to like one idea, which I was really excited about was putting it on like a private Vimeo link and sending it to like 10 people who I think would appreciate it, and then asking them if they like it to email it to then 10 people essentially like a chain letter or whatever those things used to be on email. And because because I kind of missed that I missed that. That personalised curation that we used to have on email before we had social media where you could kind of blast 1000 people with a thing, where you would get an email from a friend. And I tell her Hi, I thought of you specifically, when I saw this, and I want you to say it. I thought I was gonna do that. But I haven't done that. I've done the blast.
I remember. Yeah, there was there was like a you wanted to get on the email chain and it was a football sort of football commentary that would go out weekly. Do you remember this? I could imagine you would have been on something that was easy go but it was that viral email chain that like, just got momentum, but it's the most clunky way of building a tribe. But if it works, you know, it's legit viral because people have had to work so hard to opt in. Yeah, but I feel like that isn't what you've gone for. I mean, the how do you go about like I what I love about loophole is That it's almost behind the scenes, but also filming. It's all written. But it seems like it goes from behind the scenes to action where we're doing a skit here. How much ad lib goes into the bits where it looks like it's behind the scenes versus how much is it? verbatim it's written and it's exactly what you've written.
So, so there's so when people watch it, there's like three scripted sort of sketches, or little mini films, I guess he called a few of them. And those are all fully scripted, but all the bits where we kind of playing ourselves in the interlude bits of us just hanging around the house that was all improvised, but we, you know, to her with an intention, so that's kind of like how I've heard they do Curb Your Enthusiasm, where, you know, Larry knows what the scenes about the scene is. So for us, it was like because it's me and Dave Lawson and Rick Davies. And so the same might be Rick has a question about the script. But before that, we're going to play this game where we try and sing our best. So that's pretty much all the planning that we did. And because I just I just thought I've never done that before. And I really, I'd always wanted to try it. And this felt like the right time to try it. And those bits were just the most fun like that, that felt so liberating. And kind of fraying in a weird way away, you didn't have a script, but you knew where you're going. So it's just sort of in this world where anything could happen, but you didn't feel too overwhelmed because, you know, you knew where the end point was. When you think about how long it took and then you see what has happened with Ryan the website. would you approach it differently now or do you feel like you've got even more confidence to be shipping more things? Well, I mean, this this like loophole was pretty much the first thing when my when the shift happened in in May, like I had this shift in me which I think I've spoken to you guys about before. Were I sort of thought I just want to start making stuff without waiting for someone to give me permission or someone to give me money to do it, which is sort of the traditional way of doing things. I mean, it's like, you know what you guys do. It's just like, I'm just gonna you just decide to do it. And loophole was kind of the first thing I did with that in mind. And so that was, and it was all about process over product. So all what for the whole, the whole experience of it, I always tried to prioritise the process of making it as opposed to what it will look like at the end. So when we were filming it, there was even a time when Ben and I talked about never releasing it, because there's, I sort of thought about it and because because we want to do it again. And after we finished it, we all had the best way and we just had so much fun. Because you know we there's no one telling you that you had to wrap up. So one night we filmed till 5am because we're just drinking And filming and and it was just didn't have to stop. So we didn't. And, and so after that week of filming, it was just so much fun. And I thought I want to do it again. And then I sort of stopped, I started thinking, Well, what would be the best environment? Like, is it better to film the next one before this one comes out. So you're not affected by a response. So we can just go back into it and truly enjoy the experience without being affected by a negative response or, you know, what, or even a positive response. So, I got to this point where I thought, maybe if I just never release it, then that's the purest form. form of process is never releasing the product. I heard this this story once about, and it's probably not true, but it's a really good story. I think I think it was a some director, like from the 70s, like Nick Cassavetes, or one of those sorts of things. Directors and he was filming some some massive film and he was at a point where he was like full auto. And he could do anything he wanted. And now it was at the end of the shoot day and you know, remembering that they used to film on film so the end of the shoot died are filming out in the desert somewhere and one and some there's been a stuff up and someone had said, Look this some it's bad news tomorrow we they weren't able to get the film stock. So we haven't got film stock for tomorrow, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna have to cancel the day. And apparently, he said, No, we filmed the day without the pills, because that's what
is a digital minimalist Ryan that deletes all these files, because he doesn't want to keep them doesn't want
none of the raw stuff, which seems like sort of outrageous budget
for at that point it becomes it's four years, like if you weren't to release it, and you'd be happy with that. Then I get That is the win. But it seems like you know Seth Godin is about shipping something, it's the last piece to the puzzle. It's the thing that sort of brings it into its full form is when you put it out into the world for people to see. which I love. Your, your, I think your third or fourth, Ryan was sorry. And it was a it was a one take video about how you didn't have a video for that week. And I saw people I saw you posted on social media. And I saw someone right on it saying, Oh, you know, it's alright might not we don't always get to finish things. And that's all good. And I actually to me, I was like, right, he scrambled. He hasn't released one and I watched it. And for me, what I took and I don't even know I wanted to ask you if this is where you were drawing inspiration for the sorry, video was this culture online of people making videos about how they're sorry they haven't done the creative promises was that You trying to make fun of that? Because I was like, That's fucking genius. That is so that is so genius.
Well, then yes.
It is so good.
No, no, no, I don't I don't know. I don't I've never seen that. But I, but there is definitely like it's a pretty. It's a pretty common thing where you know, like if someone has a column that at some point they'll usually rot but this week I haven't got an idea for a column. There's always a Yeah, I feel like everyone always does that in some way. Maybe that's all you talking about?
Yes, a YouTuber on that. It's always sigh Hi, sorry. He's why I haven't been posting on YouTube. It's like, there's a niche of those style videos. There should just be one channel where we're finding where they've been.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's definitely a lot of people who think that it just was an apology video for not doing anything. And I kind of like that I was sort of tempted at the time to tell people that just make sure you keep watching But then I thought then I kind of like the fact that there's gonna be a lot of people who will never say the whole thing. Yeah, because they just assume that it is what it is. I even went on. I was on fitzy and wipha around that time I think it was I did a show on eBay saying they had me on for that. But then with hot, who's you know, a good good friend of mine with us, you know, at the annual like now Ron, you know, we have to talk about the new Ryan calm you've you've let yourself down. You know, you've you've you haven't done a video. And I was like, yeah, we're heavy. Have you watched it? He's like, Oh, yeah, I've watched it and I wasn't happy. You know, he would have you watched the whole thing. And he's like, yeah, yeah. And it became very clear that he hadn't watched
which is like classic FM radio
But, but that's a sign with a lot of people I kind of love that I love and because there's no other place that I could ever do that. Like I could never get away with it If I was taking like Screen Australia money or something, I bet I say this you can never do that stuff. Yeah, but this is the only that's the only place you can try stuff and be experimental. It's become more of a of like a my own like little lab like just trying trying different things
playing. It's a bit like the artist that created the $5 note where there's a while eating and peanuts if you put it on its side and fold it up. Like that's an Easter egg. I mean, if someone didn't do that on purpose, that is
Yeah, I think that'd be on purpose for sure.
The script and an improv and enjoying the process of just having a prompter and then going for it. Does it make you reconsider the way that you write scripts?
it definitely not really actually the scripted stuff is it is what it is, but I definitely want to do more of that of that nonsense. scripted stuff because that was that was way more fun performing that than it was performing the scripted stuff because the scripted stuff is there there's a restriction there and I guess for for proper actor which you know I'm not but for a proper actor I guess the craft they would probably enjoy the craft of of studying the script and and getting that right and working on that. But for me I'm much preferred the the world of just performing and you can only do it with people that you really, I guess know, well I trust and between myself and David and Rick, that was that there was I didn't feel like there were never any egos there. There was never anyone trying to outdo anyone. It was a really great kind of level playing field
with Coronavirus, and you know, I guess people stuck in their house for a good reason. But a lot of people would be reflective of on GE geography playing a part to being able to be The most creative you know, it's like if I'm not in New York, I can't be doing vlogs or if I'm not CBD based, I can't be doing this. I mean, you've been on your farm for since since it'll happen back in March. How have you found being away from the city? You know, you and your partner How are you feeling about creativity and what geography means to your creative bone?
Well, I mean, it's been bread and butter not painted.
Yet no. Yeah, I think it's were extremely, I was just extremely lucky to be able to not be in the city. And out here, there's just the difference for me is this. I've got space and I can kind of walk around and, and there's not like a lot of people in the vicinity. So it's, it's good from that point of view and when we would come out here before Coronavirus it this is just what it is. It's just not saying many people. So being here doesn't feel that different except for the fact that I'm not going back and forth from Melbourne, from the city all the time. But but from a creative point of view, it's hard to know really, because I feel like this year has been a particularly different year for me. So I haven't really got a lot to compare it to. Because Because of this website, I've thought about this a lot, actually. And I reckon if I didn't set up this website at the start of the year for myself, this sort of monthly discipline. Knowing myself, I reckon I would have definitely used the pandemic as an excuse not to make anything, I would have maybe written a lot of stuff, but I don't think I would have made stuff. So I think that I've been lucky that I did do it because it's meant that I've been forced to be creative. And that's just been it to make stuff and that's just been great. But I've spoken to people who have kind of gone either way, I'm sure you guys have as well, but people who've been insanely creative in this time, and then but then people who have just not been able to do anything, I don't know if that just comes down to kind of Neurology or if that comes down to people's individual situations, but
yeah, constraint seems to be a big one as well. But I think like having the constraints and having options taken away, I feel like that could be a big thing because you don't necessarily have to say no to heaps of things that being said for you and so then you can
have a level of focus but I think it is Ryan, as you mentioned, there are like I have read a few people few creative people that have been in really tough spots mentally, which is just the other side of the coin, which I guess there always is, but I always it's like a personal understanding we all need to sort of work out which is what are the excuses and what what will make us get off our bomb or stick to something and how what promise are we making that will actually Stick to it's a complex thing and so if you can work it out for yourself like it sounds like you have. It's well
yeah, this is working. Yeah, it's working for me so far. I don't know how long I'll do it for but certainly, every time I've done I've made something and put it out there like the last thing I did before low Paul was, was something that I really it really stressed me out because I was I was in the middle of making this these segments I was doing on an eBay show. And I was doing that every week and so I was already really busy and then I had to also do this website thing. So I've just I felt like stressed by it but then once I'd done it I was just so happy that I did it like you know stayed up late force myself to get it done. And I think whenever whenever I do that, I was feel way better about myself than I would have if I didn't push myself to do it.
So one of the learnings been so you did that. The it was that was it a four part series. What was the BBC like the funding that you? Can you explain that end of the spectrum where you get cash and do that versus something like loophole and how you approach it and how different it is?
Well, it's, it's kind of it really just comes down to, well, money is one thing. But money. Having money is just a parameter that you deal with. Like it's not a big deal. Like, you know, it's just a it's just an obstacle that kind of often creates new ideas or better ideas.
And so it's hard to like, was that what it was called? The the? Yeah. And so what was that? What was the funding? I'm just trying to remember because it felt like it was a unique thing. It was funding from the UK to create a series What did you have to supply?
So Channel Four, in the UK, they have a an online sort of thing that they do called flaps, their comedy flaps. And essentially they just like, give like little mini web series to comedians that they, you know, either want to develop or they think have a good idea. So in my, in my situation I'd written a full the full show of how to life like a proper six part series, pitched it to them and you know, got quite far down the line and then at the last moment, they said, Oh, we can't do the show, but we can give you money for the kind of the small version, the 3335 minute episodes, which, which I was really excited about. And so that money came from Channel Four. But the unique part about it, which I think maybe you're talking about, is because it was a because Channel Four partly said like SBS they're partly government funded. So part of their charter is they have to support local independent production companies in the UK. And I was we were producing it like with with a production company and then another The production company in Australia, so then they we had to find a third local UK production company to get on board. So there were three, it was like a three way, four way if you count Channel Four, so just means that there's just way more voices in the room. So the more obviously the more money that you have, the more opinions that are going to, again, get involved. Unless it's from what I hear from people who do shows on Netflix. Often I've heard that it's like they just kind of get money and just make it like there's no there's not a lot of interference. But usually the rule is the more money the more opinions so for for loophole, there's certainly no money so there were not many opinions, it was just me. And that was the the the joy of it, for me was to have to have something to fully did to be the to have something to mould myself and not have to run ideas past anyone. And of course, I was getting lots of advice. I was running things by people I trusted, that they were suggestions or ideas that I could take or leave, which is a really nice thing today.
Do you think you start your career thinking that making it will be you know, getting funded by a TV network or, or making something for a big Telly network is going to be that version that you're explaining that you end up doing by yourself? Is that what you felt going into TV?
No, no, like when I started TV, and this is sort of like what I talked about when we did that live show. Whatever episode that was, can you believe that was this year? Ron? That was like January.
It feels like
years ago. Wow.
Yeah, it is insane.
But I've been to the future.
Yeah, I should have told everyone
I'm so forgetful. But yeah, when I when I was a kid or kid when I was 18, you know? 17 there was not internet was pretty, pretty early, so there wasn't YouTube or anything. So there still wasn't legitimate opportunities to release loophole. You know, you could either go to a TV channel, you got a channel 31 that was really the only options. So, if back then all I had in my mind was TV show on Channel 10, you know, that I'm the star, often I write and whatever. And that was, to me, that was the goal. And that was the thing that I had in my mind that if I get that TV show, then I will have proved to myself slash my parents that I've made it, you know, and, and I think now, I'm not sure I mean, probably ask 97 and George, but I think now when when people are coming up now, I think I suspect and I don't know for sure, but I suspect that the goals and The dreams are slightly different, because there's so many more like naturally so many more opportunities. And the idea of having a YouTube channel that you can get money for is probably just as exciting if not more exciting than getting a show at 830 on the ABC
clout having an only fans account versus being on channel 10.
Across only fat fans Ryan to know about that.
Oh, yeah, yeah, it was that Yeah. Someone was telling me about that the other night, but
it's like becoming an adult. Yeah. So how do you describe it? Well, I mean, how do we subscribe to
it says subscription porn site essentially, but the porn, what length that is goes to is is very to the person so it's influences or people who are influences creating only fans account to you know, release, racy content at a subscription monthly subscription or, you know, three months at a time. Is it Yeah, you meant I think you'd have to have a credit card to do it. So, Barrington back to
Yeah, there's people making $300,000 a month and they're posting nude selfies. It's
right are they famous people or Who are they?
Yeah, so it works for people who have big followings IE Ryan Shelton. If he wants to start doing racy content, you could already start marketing to the people. You know, you convert them from Mariah right? Anyway, it's it is a weird thing. What aspirations people in the industry how it shifts? Yeah. And it's shifting on technology. As a first you know, first thought for people.
Yeah, I'm a JB, you've been affair you we had JB interview you've on the 24 hour stream. You've been a massive fan. Yeah. What do you think when you say Ryan do these things outside of TV? Does it change the way that you look at them? From a career path point of view or where it's all going for you even
Yeah, definitely like the I mean what I noticed with the with loophole you've already talked about it but the joy in the behind the scenes stuff which was included in the sketches and stuff was so clear. And it just, yeah, I loved it. It makes you want to do that. But the the like, what we're doing here is the I'm loving it. The development what you got and what was
sorry to cut you off just what I was
what you guys are doing there i think is the ultimate like I reckon what you guys are doing is unbelievable. I'm so I just I just admire it so much. I think what what you're what you've managed to build and where it's at now I'm not and you can say where it can go. And it's all it's so autonomous and you it's your And it's uniquely yours. And if you have an ad it's growing organically in that great way which doesn't seem contrived or not forced. And it's, it's just great. I just, I just love it. And I just think I reckon A lot of people will probably watch and listen to what you guys are doing and, and be inspired but it's it's incredible.
Thanks for I think like the and it seems like a unique time as well where even though there's a lot of heartbreak happening and a lot of unfortunate events, it is the opportunity where people need entertainment, they need creativity. Have you thought about what the future looks like as you're seeing all of the success? successes of the different Ryan's where does it go? Do you just keep building momentum? Do you keep building the site?
Well, it's always the the the site is just an outlet, it's just some way to put the things that I make. And that's I don't really intend it to ever be something that grows an audience, I'm going to have thought about, at some point, just putting it all on a YouTube channel. But immediately that kind of, it kind of gives me a bit of anxiety because it's like, well, then there's going to be comments, and then I'm going to, I'm going to have that sort of feeling of odd, I have to then maintain communication with the commenters and it becomes something else than what it was. And there's nothing wrong with that. But that becomes something else than what it was designed to be. And I'm just really wary of remembering why I'm why I'm doing it. And the reason I'm doing it is to just give myself a reason to make something every month just to be creative, just to finish things really. It's not to build an audience necessarily. Of course, I want people to see it. And I want people to say loophole and whatever I make, but, but not just to build an audience like I never know I don't want to catch myself saying please subscribe. I love people who are doing YouTube channels. I love that. But I feel like it's a separate thing. I don't really want it want this to be that? So, yeah, it's it. I think I've just sort of see how it goes. And I'll do this for the year and I hope that I'll keep doing it. But it's, uh, it's, it's certainly it's certainly feeling good right now for me for what I want it to be. It feels really, really good.
So what's the what's the compass then? Because I feel like that's what you've gotten very clear on is it's like you know exactly where you want to go with it. It's a lot of instinct and feeling it out. How would you help someone who's a younger person who's earlier on in their journey to be able to have that self awareness of what they want?
Well, I actually don't know where I want it to go like and I think that's what is that when I realised that that doesn't have to end somewhere that was The thing that kind of set me free a little bit, and I and that is often what people that is the thing that that kind of cripples people sometimes is the thought of like, Oh, well, you know, it's that whole thing of like, when I get to 100,000 followers, it's that then you're always gonna want more, there's always going to be something else. So to have that, to have that end goal or something that you're building towards, I found that that it kind of gets in the way of the reason that I actually wanted to do it. So it's like, you got it's like what you guys are doing. It's just like this ever evolving thing. It's not like season one, season two, season three, there's never an opportunity to reconsider whether you'll keep going and I can that is kind of the sacred
Are you thinking you can ask question Hey, George, you've done a thinking each month to make the next thing better. Like is there pressure on on you to do that? Really? I mean, how do you tell yourself it doesn't have to be better?
Because I don't necessarily, I don't think I could be wrong, but I don't think that's what anyone's thinking when they watch it. I don't think that judging it based on whether it's as good or better than the last one, because I'm certainly not. It's just whatever feels right for that month. So, because you can also, the idea of better could be judged in so many different ways. Like, is it funnier? Is the production quality better? Did it get more comments? Did you know whatever, like there's so many different measurements of success. That, you know, like, even like right now, I've started playing with like GarageBand and like playing music, just trying to often never played music in my life, but just that's kind of like borrowed my girlfriend's old MIDI controller and just playing, trying to just make things and so that might lead to something. And I don't think I would restrict myself from doing it. If I didn't think was going to be as good as loophole. Because then it's like, well, you can't if you I mean, it's all well and good to try and keep bettering yourself. But I don't necessarily feel the need to try and better the product. It's more just trying to maintain the process.
It's, there's a fine line between being super outcome focused and being comfortable with where you are right now. So in meditation, it's like, This moment is all you have. And so it's letting go of all those feelings of later on or, you know, tomorrow and, and just accepting this moment. And so I'm just trying to bring it back to the creation part of things where I know where I've let go of wanting it to be this thing or going you know, to be this big success and just enjoyed it. It's worked a lot of the times, or when I've shifted my focus away from being so obsessed about getting on radio, I go and do another course that has nothing to do with radio, and then I got a radio job. Like, And to me, that's where I'm just like, isn't that annoying? Where I've dropped my obsession with my focus on it, and it's worked. Have you found a moment like that?
Well, I mean, like, I can I ask you a question. Tell me. Yeah. Um, so do you, are you now thinking that you, like, would you want to get back on radio like commercial radio? Or is this like, you know, domain like, what's the
what? No, I don't know. Definitely not. It was, that was a part of the journey I think I needed. But for that time, where I really wanted to, I was looking for any opportunity to get messaging everybody trying to get my foot in the door. And then I went and did a coaching course, where it was more around dealing with people and asking questions and, and then in that time, where I'd remove my focus from trying to get on to radio, that's when the thing happened. And it was because I put in a bunch of work. Don't get me wrong, but it was, it was almost the the results of past work. But then when my attention was on it, I got there I was like, ah, but then for now, it's definitely not about getting onto radio, if anything, it's more just like building something that we can stick out for a very long time. Because that's a superpower because most people will jump off the horse.
Did you feel a little bit like that right with the with the ABC show like you're doing all of this Ryan stuff that all of a sudden, you're taking your attention off, you know, pitching or trying to get in front of people and then all of a sudden people start knocking at your door.
Yeah, well, I mean, I I'm positive that the only reason that they wanted me on the show is because they'd been watching the stuff I was doing on the website. Like they referenced that directly. So I think it definitely it definitely put me on their right to want me to do to do stuff on the show. But I think That's such that I find that such maybe that's really interesting to me, like, tell me what you're saying about having that thing that's a forever job. But like that that is that's kind of, I guess what I was saying before, but that I think that's you hit the nail on the head because I'll probably always cape every now and again trying to pitch shows like TV shows like that I'll always have the idea of don't want to do that I'll always want to do if I get asked to do shows like on the base like at home alone together or whatever comes up. That's always a possibility. But I think the what the website allows me to do is to always have something to do that no one can take away and when you're when you're doing whether it's like FM radio or you're on a TV show, no matter how successful you are, that you still never fully comfortable like there's always the chance that you'll be sacked or Yeah, people will stop watching or listening. And then then what do you do like to put your creativity in someone else's hands like that. That was the thing that I that I wanted to try and avoid. So now if I did get a TV show up, that's great. But if it didn't go well or it didn't, you know, got cancelled or whatever, then that's okay as well, because I can still do what I like doing.
I feel like what you're doing is like giving a gift every every month, because I like that it doesn't have the, it doesn't necessarily have connections. Like when when I opened up the video, for loophole, I caught myself trying to connect the dots into some sort of series or a thing or like, you know, I think we're programmed to do it that way. And then by the end of it, I was like, how does it do it? Like how is it connected to my other videos, you know, it's not even it's just like, Oh, this is the stuff like my instant reaction is it's like our Ryan's taking another like this is a another direction all these are characters that are going to go on and then by the end it the way that I felt it had the feeling of watching a great short film or something where it's like, you gifted this thing, it's a bit of like, it's, um, it's more a focus on an artist who is experimenting, and it's like, I've gone into a exhibition. And I've seen I've gone into a room, I've experienced it, but then I'm going to walk into another room and you could give me an entirely different experience. And I feel like that is a very exciting thing as an audience member.
That's awesome. Yeah, I think I think the comparison to like an honest that's, I remember when I visited a friend of mine, he's a painter and visited his studio. And in he lives in New Castle and so I pointed up, um, and and so and when I remembered I went in there and got this.
Yeah, he's just, he's just like
Yeah, and I was walked into his studio, and He has all these massive canvases just like set up all around him. And you can kind of say that you could say the footprints covered in paints like walking from Canvas to Canvas. And just like going like, I'm going to paint a bit here today, and then walking over there paint a bit here today. And then at some point, all those paintings will be a show, and then we'll go into a room, and then he'll just start working on another show. No one has to give him permission, he can just paint. Yeah. And that was just that was so and it. his inspiration just come from whatever he's feeling at that moment of his life. And then after like 20 years, he's got a body of work, which is sort of a diary of sorts. And that really interested me and some of the stuff I do on this will be that on the website will be that and some of it will just be like completely just non sequitur, things like just ideas, you know, which is both both are exciting.
I think it's so it's such a new human quality to want to understand and be able to categorise or what's right what's wrong. And when in odd, you cannot say anything about it. I feel like Rossi stem.
Don't you think that like for me, I feel like what you're doing right is the human bit I think it's like that's the child that you know, child like playing with toys and using things in different ways. And then over time we're like, okay, we need all of this structure. And so it's almost like trying to work out how do we go against what we've been told and actually do the more human thing maybe?
Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean, you can attempt to do that probably when the goal is to just either be famous or be rich, because that's so often the Gulf of PayPal and when that's you go, it's, you tend to base your decisions on what you think people want, not what is actually true.
And so how do you do it because obviously, there's a privileged position of having gotten to a point where you are now where it's like, you don't have To make every decision based on a financial outcome Do you have any thoughts on how someone who was getting started could find a balance between business and art?
Well I think if you really want to I mean like you get it you get a job
come get a
job seeker Yeah,
no but you can do both like you can I think because what I'm doing is both like I haven't I still have a job like I still we have our production company which is yes, not everyone can just start a production company and get paid for but that just happens to be my the way I get my money that is just my job. I love it Luckily, but it's it's there but then I also make sure I give myself time to do the other thing that kind of that I just want to do. Do you think that's hard
to be able to like because I feel like because there is so many. It's not like you're packing shelves at Woollies. Do you think that it actually can be a trap that when you do the work like the production company, there's so many similarities to the pure art that you can fall into actually not executing on the things that you want to do.
For sure, for sure. But I think if you really, if you really want to be creative and make stuff, you have to make time for it. And there is time everyone's got time to do it, because it doesn't have to be a big thing can be a small thing. So that I totally understand that, that it's difficult for people to self motivate. I always have trouble self motivating and that was sort of the reason behind doing the website because I knew that if I didn't do it, then people would be disappointed or I'd be disappointed in myself. So So I definitely think The key for me at least, is to have both if I didn't have a job, and I was just doing the website, I would I would find that difficult. But if and
vice versa. Why do you think that is?
Well, because I'd be stressed about money. And then if I'm stressed about money, then the anxiety goes up. And then when your anxieties up, it's sort of harder to be kind of creative and, and to actually, you know what I mean, like, it's, I think you have to have that you have to have that balance, and there is a way to do both. But you just have to, you just got to sort of really just think about how you can do both. Because there's just got to be a balance in the same way that you've also got to have a balance of, you got to be working, you got to get you got to get money. That's just the way it is. But then you've also got to do your passion, but then you've also got to spend time with family and friends, like you've got, you've got to have all those things. If you don't have one of them. You're gonna feel a bit off
while I do. It feels like GB. You've spoken A bit about the prioritisation lightly and how you prioritise
yeah like how are you managing your time then, for example with the at home alone together for weeks or whatever it was, how are you? Sorry, I
How did you manage your time with the, with the 11th and that sort of thing.
I just I just stayed up really late every night like it was I just, um, I was in. So I've been working in this studio, like in studio, it's a shed. So just working in the shed. And I've just got like this tiny little like heater, which I put like 30 centimetres from my body, because it's so cold and I just had to work really late. I just had to work. And I know that if I if I didn't have the website, I absolutely would just would have just done the IBC show and that would have been fine. Like that would have been great. But because I had this deadline every month that I had to do stuff then you just have to you I set my I set myself a system which said, which meant that I had to do the work. And sound when I say the work, it makes it sound like it was a chore, I love doing it. But it you sometimes you do have to make a bit of a sacrifice, and it's not always but you might awake here and there you have to do long nights and, and work really hard. But I feel like if you really if you if you believe in what you're doing, then the rewards are there. I think
and and the one thing for certain is that there will be a level of uncomfortability. And so the the hard bit about the fame or someone looking to somebody who is doing something that they want to be at, and they're looking potentially at the reward that someone's getting, based on the effort they're putting in. You know, if you wanted to be a movie star or an actor and you're looking to Tom Cruise, that guy would work his fucking ass off like that he's doing. He's looking at learning how to fly helicopter, as well as learning these lines as well as all these other stuff. You know, it's it's, I think that is the one bit that is overlooked at and that is knowing that it will be uncomfortable, whatever it is, the good life that you want will be an uncomfortable journey to get there. And you might not even get there. Yeah, it will just be an uncomfortable journey.
Yeah, and and I think the idea of the good life has been taken over by fame and money and people. Most people believe that the only way to have a good life is with you know, you need to be successful or rich or something like that. But I just I just, I'm just so confident that that's not the case. And what is the good
thing? Do you think?
It's, I think it's different for everyone. I think it I think it's just about figuring out what is what makes you happy. You know, whether it be if it's if you have kids, if it's like spending time with the kids, then that's that can be the good life lucky he can have a good life. Not heaps of money if you've got a good family, in the same way that if you love travelling, not these days, but if you love travelling, you can manage, you've got enough money to do that. That can be the good life as well. It's so subjective, that people catch themselves, like so many. That's why I think so many people have so much trouble finding a career. Or because because often there's there's bound to be someone in your life that's saying, what, what are you going to do for your career? What are you going to do at uni? What's your, what's your thing, and we're just constantly told these things which are true for some people, but not true for everyone. And everyone just gets sort of painted with the same brush that you've got to, you've got to make money or depending, you know, depending on where you've grown up or what your influences are, you've got to be famous or you've got to have a big house. So you've got to have a second house, whatever it might be. It's It's just none of it is true. But then also none of it is false. It just depends on what your thing is. And I think you just got to be truthful to yourself and listen to yourself and try and block out. What other people are telling you is, is the good life.
How do you how do you turn it into that?
a monologue snippet?
I mean, how do you? How do you turn it into a paintbrush that you can help people use? So talking about everyone sort of painted with the same brush, that we've got a system that is driven, as you said about money and fame? What What have you found to be true? That's not, you know, necessarily prescriptive, but could be a tool to get closer to what you think you should be doing?
Well, one thing that's been really helpful for me is like speaking to a psychologist Just speaking speaking to someone is I just think it's just been one of the greatest things I've done and most people think that you should only do it if you're unwell. But it's just not whether it's a psychologist or any sort of therapist, like even like some sort of career coach or or whatever, someone to talk to who can who can help you get to the bottom of who you actually are not the person that you think it should be necessarily. So, for me, it's been that and it's been like reading a bunch of books and just sort of having a
should be a completely different phrase there shouldn't it's like a midlife awakening for you. Hmm.
Yeah, it is. And it's pretty common, I think around my age. I'm 38. And I think it's a pretty common time to sort of start questioning everything. But yeah, and I, you know, 10 years ago, someone had said to me go see a psychology Just I would have said, there's no way I need to what a waste of money and time. And now I can sort of smugly say that it's a great thing. But I understand that people would think they don't need to go and maybe that maybe they don't. But after having seen someone for maybe a year, I think a year and a half or something, I kind of feel now that everyone would benefit a benefit from speaking to someone if they can, it's it's just the greatest thing to try and figure out what you should actually be spending your days doing. Because it's because if you don't really know, or if you don't have a good sense of that, which is it's really it is hard to find that to find what that is, but otherwise you just get sucked into the vortex of, you know, convince yourself that you should be doing this because that person is doing or you should be doing this because that person got a lot of money for doing that. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's why I'm just so excited about what you guys are doing as well because it just feels Feels so authentic and real and, and you know you're doing it because you just you can't not do it is what is the perception. That's what I feel like that's what it looks like at least. And that's
where if you could be if you can be. So if you could be happy in what you deem is unsuccessful, then you'll be very happy when you are in a place of somewhere you think is success, right? And so, and that's not to say that you need to look at your situation and go, this is all fact but I could still be happy. It's like, I think it just shifts the, the view on being unsuccessful away from that to something that it's like gives it less meaning gives it less care, and you can you know that that is meditation. That is it. That's the practice of now, the practice of you know, being more in control of that monkey mind.
Yep, yeah, I mean, it's meditation for some people, but like I can't do meditation like I've tried it so many times, and I wish I could, but I just, I just can't do it. And I probably haven't given it a bit a good enough go. But I guess everyone's you know, for even even sort of broadening it to like mindfulness. It can be so many things for people that can be playing sport, you know, if you just if you have that thing that puts you in the I only realised that actually a little a few months ago. I remember when I used to play, like team sports. I used to just have such a good time and afterwards, I used to just feel great. And I only realised recently it was because when you playing team sport, you're completely present you just saw in the now it's really hard to think about other things in your life when you're having to be so alert and aware. And it's, it's probably the same as like doing a radio show or doing a podcast. You're you can't help but be fully present. And for a lot of people like that would be a meditation of sorts like that's it. That's, like I remember when I said do not, you know, try it on Nova, there was a lot about the overall job that I didn't. That wasn't really for me. But the time on air like that two hours on air was just just electric because it's so much going on and you're, you're present, you're not really thinking about your worries or thinking about the bills or thinking about the car that you have to get fixed. You know, you can just be right in the moment. And that is almost a form of meditation, I guess. I don't know.
What do you think about the phrase, you want your work or you want your job? What do you think about that?
I think I think, I think I guess that's
100% true. But it depends on what you what you deem is your work or your job. Like some people would say that would happily say that they work but
Cuz you take a lot of pride from your work, but I guess there really is I guess there's a little bit of a difference isn't there like there's a there's a way that you've been able to somehow I'm just trying to identify how you've been able to reconcile the bit which is like I'm a level of detail you need detachment to be able to ship something because most people everything stuck to them. And so then putting something out is connected to them. So what is that?
Well, I mean, I'm, I'm absolutely I've only read like bits and pieces about this sort of stuff. I careful not to sound like an expert, that's probably too light so
you aren't expressing yourself.
Um, but uh, but I think with that, it's sort of like when you attach your the thing that you do to yourself and that becomes your identity. Then you expose yourself to being so for example, if you make a podcast And you put the first episode out, and you've had, and that's like, this is me, like, you know, this is the thing I need people to like this. Because if they don't, and if they do then you feel great. So if you attach yourself to these things, and this is like a ego, so if you if you attach yourself to the thing that you do, then you that the good is just as bad as the bad because if you buy into the good, so if you say for example, I put out low Paul, and if the responses is really good, and I've sort of attached myself to that, which is really hard not to do, but if you attach yourself to that, then I'm just like, yes, I'm brilliant. You know, I'm so smart and funny and people love me. If If I buy into that it's gonna be acquired just out of context.
Well, no, we'll make sure you put this one in as well. If If people fucking hate it, and like Why shouldn't go like you indulgent piece of shit? Who the fuck do you think you are making it spend 35 minutes watching your fucking love project then I'll also believe that and just think like people hate me. People think I'm shit I'm past my prime I was good one in the olden days but now I've lost it like that they're that they're the thoughts that I would that I would definitely have but if
that's what we're gonna say I was good in the eyes but I'm blocked
and so then do you just have to do so wait is feral then when we say backslash
quotes all those quotes a true depending on the day
sorry Joshua token yeah
so yeah where does the feedback sit then?
uh well i mean it if I'm doing what I wanted, how I would like it to be is is just if people are enjoying it great And if they're not fine, like, let's not take it personally, I think I think the term in likes in like psychology is, is I think it's called what my site calls it absorption. When you absorb something and you and you take you personalise it pretty much so if somebody doesn't like the thing that you did you take it as they don't like you, which is just not true. But we believe that is the case because we attach ourselves to the things that we do. And we believe that the things that we do are our identity, which they're not apparently so in an ideal world, I can enjoy the enjoy the good comment, the good feedback, and know that our goodwill people had a good time while they're watching it. But the bad feedback is like, that's fine too. Like that's okay for people not to like something I did it it's and the goal is to not take it personally and not to not to then think that people don't think it Finally, I don't think I'm worth or worthy of making stuff. Because then you just go get into a bit of a spiral and you can't keep making and that's that's a tragedy because then you can't do the thing that you love.
Makes a lot of sense. Very quickly on the editing, I want to ask you about editing because when you do something that has a bunch of improv in it. Editing can change things a bunch. What's your deal when it comes to editing? Are you involved? Do you have great editors that you work with?
Well, this year I've kind of done a lot of the editing myself, like I've for the website. I'm, I'm reluctant to ask people to do too many favours for me, so I sort of just figured out, I already kind of basically knew well, I sort of learned how to basically edit on Final Cut seven. When we first started out, and then and I never actually edited but I'd always sit with Tim, who I was with them, I just always watch people edit. So I kind of figured out the basics. And then and then I tried premiere this year and realised that it's like basically the same as Final Cut seven. So I kind of intuitively knew how to do it. So I just, you know, did a lot of YouTubing and figured out things when I got stuck. But for Lupo, most of the editing was done by Ben Timoney who, who directed it and shot him. I did little things, but he did the bulk of it. But with the import stuff, it was that was tricky. And also we didn't have a proper sound person there like there was no one recording sound. We just had the
sound and grind. That was one thing that I picked up on was how good it sounded.
Well, that is because the sound mixer did an amazing job. Yeah, because a lot of is obviously a lot of screaming and a lot of yelling and there was no one monitoring the levels and also the raw audio was a mess. Like it was horrible. A
magician right there. If that was the case, it sounds amazing.
it's an ISO trait 35 minutes it's not long enough after you watch it. I could have watched another 35 no longer than that.
I'd be like 35 people say like, Don't make your videos longer than 35 minutes I feel like that. So, yes, but not it is it really is. I'm just so like, I'm excited that people can see it now because it's just it's sort of represents this great week in my life where I feel like it a represents that a moment in my life where things shifted quite significantly. So just from that point of view, like, you know, some people will not but just as a time capsule, it feels really nice to have it out there. Even the five of us who made it. It's sort of a really cool time capsule of this week that we had together and and from that point of view, it's It feels really exciting.
Well if you're watching it, if you go and watch it, take a photo of you watching it and or screen grab it and tag Ron on Instagram.
knows that people listen to the show. Great. I just saw does your cycle watch your videos?
Yeah, she did actually. She She watched? Yeah, the first couple of Well, the first couple of videos I did on on rom com was they were very, probably the most self reflective stuff I've ever done. And so I sent her those ones and I sent it to her. And she her reply in capital letters was just interesting voice
06 Yeah, yeah. Interesting.
But she's, she's, I think, because she's not I sort of based on what I was saying before because she's not one for heavy praise or heavy criticism. She didn't really say that was brilliant, but that's probably Because she's a psychologist,
but you didn't absorb me.
So it's Ryan with 11 wise laws, which is basically all I'm doing, you know, you guys so the idea behind the 11 why's
Yeah, well the it's just because there's 11 it's on something released on the 11th of every month and there'll be 11 things in the that I that I put out because I miss January
there's not long to go
Yeah, there's only she's only five left. Yeah.
Thank you, Ron Shelton for coming on the podcast. I always feel inspired and fired up.
So I love Like I said, I love coming on this and, and just so we all remember. And now on the record, I am the 1,000th show. So when you come out yeah, definitely 1000 I've booked I'm booked on
that. Yeah, perfect. Definitely
we should do around a fire with Give me on.
Well, that's no that's actually not a thousands. Yeah, it's gonna come. Yeah, definitely. I could get ski ready. Yeah, I mean, George has skivvies now.
Yeah I got a turtleneck, buddy love it. It's great. I'm gonna get more actually got it from Uniqlo and I'm gonna get to Yeah, from Uniqlo must be saying what you
did you know that George Madden and so and so and so right would you also do us a favour? JB you can do the ask about
Oh yeah. You want to call my buddy john Come on my podcast Hump Day replay at some stage I would bloody love today. Oh, no, no. No, I want to say like I only did because you kept it. Yeah, so I was doing a recap video each way come to a replay. So good. That's the Thank you so much. But um, I missed one. And it was like I felt so bad about it was the worst feeling. One of the ways I missed one of the weeks, so then we turned it into a podcast. So the week after we started a podcast called humped every play on the first episode, jack post was my co host, which was great. Awesome. And it's just like flexing a new muscle not flexing.
It's flexing, you're flexing? Yeah, I'm just,
yeah, I'm learning so, but I've resonated with everything you've said in this in this podcast, and I'm feeling super inspired to at least one of us has.
That feeling it
now I might I fuckin love I love. I feel like you're a new Ryan. Like you've said you had the awakening like I 100% I've known you for quite a few years. Not on the sort of relationship we've got now it's you know, we're best mates, aren't we right now? From the content you even put out like from afar and even knowing you I think you're a new right I Love, love You're so open and honest and which is motivating on the other side of that which without you trying to say, Hey, here's me motivating you. Yeah,
it's awesome. Thanks, Tony.
Yeah, thanks for it. It's a daily talk show. So tomorrow guys have a good one say guys.