- July 9, 2019
It’s Tuesday and we’re joined by our mate Craig Harper! We talk about what success means to us, how we work around a balanced lifestyle, and why having years of experience helps you in the long term.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show we discuss:
– What success means
– Insecurities and the human condition
– A balanced lifestyle
– Mindfulness and working on yourself
– Being in the right space & non-negotiable’s
– Earning it through struggles
– Why years of experience helps you long term
– Being a life long learner
Craig’s Podcast, The You Project: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-you-project/id1342430567
Craig on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/whiteboardlessons/
Craig’s website: https://www.craigharper.net/
Drunk Tank Pink: http://adamalterauthor.com/drunk-tank-pink
Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/550188/range-by-david-epstein/9780735214484/
Email us: email@example.com
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
A conversation sometimes worth recording with mates Tommy Jackett & Josh Janssen. Each weekday, Tommy & Josh chat about life, creativity, business and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and friends of the show! This is The Daily Talk Show.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/ #TheDailyTalkShow #Podcast
It's a daily Talk Show Episode 300. And it is 10 for the six, seventh, sixth sixth time we've got Craig hapa. Back on the show, wow, three day deals all over nice. He's Hey, going buddy, say the keeper of record. I'm good. I'm good. I just want to first launch into, you know how, I mean, I was gonna say, You know how I but then it was like, you're not there when I'm introducing or trying to give context to you as a person when I talk about you to other people. So you're not there. The way I the way. So why I tell people
is I say, Craig hapa he started the first personal training studio in Australia. And that's what I lead with. Because I like I think it has, it has real cut through. I think we've got that which I want you to use when you're talking about myself or Josh when you're telling other people about us. We fit what are you pioneers with what
Well, this is the difference. I think that you will you're in a lucky position that you fuckin I mean not lucky position. You started a while ago, right? I'm old and potentially look at it like that and honest. Carry on so you you you did shit ages ago which you can now talk about and say hey I did this shit ages ago. Yes more cutlery correct. Whereas like a year and a half into the podcast we're thinking
of those headlines that we can use. And so what we were settling on was the first daily podcast and video talk show. I'm in Australia. Oh yeah, that is true. That is true. So we've just gone seven days we're into our second week happens on the weekends. What do you actually do stuff live on the weekend now we divorced and it
doesn't really. We we pre record for the weekend. That's seven days a week but the weekend gave us a chance to we started to feel like we
We had the pressure of delivering a certain type of show Monday to Friday whereas weekends we can be loose there's there's no expectation so we can try different things we can talk about shit that's maybe feels a little bit more in a little bit sort of like we bring we brought in our partners the other day shit like that you know things beautiful about this
whole format and process and evolution of communication and connexion and media is that there's no rules. It's like well what do you want to do? Let's do that I love I love playing in spaces where there's no rules or height rules to be on the way you normally have a rule that you wear headphones, you decide to go against it because I talk your headphones.
Normally when someone says I don't need headphones I don't want headphones if normally back it up with the shit and Mike technique but I've got to say you sound no you can't hear it but you sound amazing. Right? Thank you. I do my very often I've been in front of the mic a few times. But you know it is
It is true that you can you know, try weekends or try this or longer or shorter or you are asking me when we went and got and coffee while you're doing three a week because I was doing one and and then I've started doing to two episodes of the project.
See how did that but it's you got what's going to resonate with people and what will for me I needed to be all in or not in Yeah, you know and so especially doing a
a format which is largely around personal growth and you know, behavioural psychology and doing thinking and producing better people need to know what to expect and because we're doing three days a week it's you know, it's it seems to be having greater impact audience is growing recognition is growing brand awareness is growing, and we're doing good shit. Most importantly, how do you fit into people's lives that's a you know, your programming is along with someone's gym routine. It's along with someone's drive to work routine, when you were when you
I mean retrospectively you can look at I started the first person trying to get you thinking that when you did it where you actually leading with that or whatever, we jumped the gun with how we want to market ourselves. Should we be doing this like Josh said in 10 years? No, I look I think that what you are doing is you are pioneers but what I you know, you you wanna you were saying to me when when we went and got a coffee that you don't have the same talent on board as some people doing that doesn't mean talent, what normal people think of talent, but as in profile, but what you're doing is, and you both got your own profile and your own following in your own way, but what you're doing is building criminal record. You're building this protocol in this operating system in this community at a really maintainable, nice linear progression. And I I honestly think that this is the most underrated thing in media, because your conversations are great. You guys are talented. I'm not pissing in your pocket because I would just say nothing. You guys are talented.
These guys fuck wins. But you guys are
a team because then you can sort of punch around. I mean, here's the thing. So obviously people can't say throw a deal with a nice seven Mr. 97.
But there is a team and there is a culture and this is kind of for me, this is better than a lot of studios, radio studios, commercial studios that have been in you know, and so you're building something which is great so that it's solid. So that once you do get to that tipping point where it goes crazy, you're already got the infrastructure, the experience the miles on the board, where you're going to be able to manage that well and optimised that you know, and that's, you know, it's it's all nothing's, it's never like we've never been in a time or a culture or an environment where things are
progressing at the right they are now and a big part of that is technology but you know, in everything from medicine to make
Yeah, you know, everything's expanding. Everything's evolving. Everything's dynamic. And if you're a fucking dinosaur, you're going to get left behind. Do you think that that's why people don't like the linear path? Because they're saying all these things popping, like the technologies and stuff like that? Do you think that maybe that feeds into everyone wanting to have a successful podcast after you? Maybe, but as you and I also, we probably should have had the coffee conversation on air, but I'll bring it to air now is that what episode is is for you three, you know, 398 and you would have done at least 100 of those where there was fucking four people in a canary watching, right? But relatively, generally was Yes, yeah, yeah. But uh, but it just so you are now hitting towards 400 shows. And just now you're starting to get real momentum. Yeah. And you've got this beautiful facility with amazing high end equipment and this great team.
But that's what you have to do. Like, everyone loves the idea of having a successful podcast because it's fucking sexy. And as I said to you, when I started doing whiteboard lessons that kind of in a small way, but it blew up. And everyone's like, wow, I'm going to do my own. I can all do that. So a bunch of people started doing whiteboard lessons and putting their name in the corner like I did. Well, they lasted the longest anyone lasted was a couple of months, because it's just a grind than its work. And they didn't get the response I got and then they went, fuck it. And I've done four years, three and a half thousand whiteboards. And I kept doing new whiteboards every day. Because there's an element of success and growth and fulfilling one's potential and exploring possibilities and creating your thing which is really not sexy. It's just about you know, I hate the term grinding but it is about doing the work when it's not always instant or fun. You've been talking to people about success and creating success.
In the last, you know, last hundred years, Jesus was around Yeah, What was he like? anyway? Look, he was good.
Loving Yeah. Hey, long was that? Yeah, yeah, I was the 13th apostle, miss the cat Do you think people's where they looking to as success has changed from social media? So I think, you know, information, the accessibility the information being so accessible now is a blessing but it's also bringing up all these other ways and metrics of success. Yes you think it's shifted from 20 years ago when you talking to people about success yes to now when there's all these things that are new and uncharted waters like what will media and what were the success metrics if you were just if you're a business owner?
What were the things that people were flexing back then what would they how would you show off as you
Social media wasn't a conversation.
So success is really interesting. I mean, we could do two hours on success, but success is there's the idea of success. There's the science of success. There's the metrics of success. So, obviously on a podcast, you would go, Well, we've gone from 5000 listeners to 10,000 listeners. It's hundred percent growth. That's amazing. That's, you know, yeah. Or it might be I've only got 200 listeners, but fuck, I love it. Yeah, it's successful. Yeah. You know, so there's the, there's the kind of the personal interpretation.
And I won't bore you with my storeys, but you know, that, you know, I got to the point where I had five businesses and I was making some money and from the outside looking in, my life was shiny and I was successful. But in the middle of that life, the internal reality was not that I loved it. And it wasn't that anything was bad or, and I was very fortunate to be in the position that I was in. But there's a difference between the external reality or appearance of the car, the house, the money that we're
And the the representation of success and one's experience in the middle of that. So I think back in the day success was very much
a metric of stuff or stuff was the metric. What do you have? What do you own? What do you earn? What do you look like? What are you doing? What do you think of you? For me, it was very much about living up to my parents expectation, and the expectations of others. Because you grow up in a well, I grew up in a mindset that said, that success is this stuff. And you believe that because it's like I grew up in the Catholic Church, or we're going to heaven no one else is, like, these are not suggestions. This is subconscious and conscious programming of a certain way of thinking. And so whether or not you're talking about getting to heaven, or whether or not you're talking about how to connect with humans, or whether or not you're talking about what is success, it's ultimately all about how we think, you know, and so for me,
success is contentment and
And leaving without trying to sound too cheesy, living in alignment with my values. what's the what's the craziest thing that you ever did? purely out of a way of demonstrating success?
Oh, you know, I was never really a show off, but I bought lots of expensive cars that I didn't need. Yeah.
But that was more because I like I would buy cars and then not tell people. I wouldn't drive them around. Because I didn't want people to think I was it was a decade, but I didn't want you like as though I love cars. Yeah, he liked motorbikes. It's just wasted lots of money, but I was never really
because I always had even when I was successful in inverted commas, or when I'd reached a level that we might call successful. I still felt insecure and fraudulent. I still felt like funny what was the pacify them? When did you could you actually fix that temporarily through external things
Like two people stand in front of a sold sign. Yeah. That sometimes they can afford the show. Yeah. I'm living the dream Yeah. What what in 1995 one is I'm just curious as to what that actually was all for me I guess going from you know going from the fat kid in Latrobe Valley literally, the fat kid literally pick last for every sporting team who they've shipped self esteem who all that right to
owning a company with employees. Even when it was three, I'm like, Fuck, I own a company. I can I own a gun, but they will go boss. I'm like back, you know, so that things like that way. I owned a company I built I ended up employing 500 people. I had multiple businesses, multiple venues. I had a personal assistant. I'm like, Who ever thought I'd have a you know, things like that, which there's a bit of ego in that but more than that, it was just for me a sense of accomplished
And doing something that I never thought I could do. And this seems, you know, because things only had the meaning that you give them. So I always thought I was not that clever. I always thought I was
not particularly gifted or talented, not particularly attractive, not particularly anything, you know, average, I didn't hate myself, but I thought I'm not in any way on any level special. And so when I went to university at 36, right, that was my first time going to university. And I went and did a degree in exercise science.
And I thought that I was academically stupid. So for me to go there in that space where for the first semester, I was literally double everyone's age everyone's I attain, I'm 36. I don't know how to use a computer. I don't know how to write academically. I don't even know how to use that language that they use at university slackers in Germany. Then I didn't everyone we're all humans, but everyone except me speaks back in German. And I should just say German, not fucking German.
But it for me, that that sense of facing my fear and being putting myself in an uncomfortable situation that I didn't need to be in, but I chose to be in. And for me that was a real KPI of success. I love Tony Doherty
saying on your podcast prove you're not trying to prove others wrong. You trying to prove it? You gotta prove yourself. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, I love that. And so in terms of you starting these businesses, was that to prove others wrong? Did you think that others looked at you? Like you couldn't do that hundred percent? No, I am inherently lazy a doing shit. I don't like like, I do not like working for people.
You know, the last time you did 2626 my last job? What was it?
It was working in a gym as an employee, and my boss was a good dude. And it was a good gym. But I wanted to happen. Yeah, yeah, truck sod mock. Can I mark shout out. He was a good dude. But
you know, not everyone is destined to have their own business or do their own thing. And some people are and there are there. There are benefits to being an employee too. So I'm not saying being an employee is bad or good or owning your own businesses bad or good I'm saying we need to figure out what works for us. And so for me, I love the freedom and the flexibility and the possibility that came with going I'm going to do my own thing. So if I go no good, it's my fault. If I go great, it's my fault. And I can always go back and I can count reps and work on the gym floor if I really have to. That's what I think when I go to the gym, I look at the PTS in there I think back I'm glad I didn't do that but maybe I could go back to it if I if all goes to shit. Yeah, if everything fell apart, definitely go back to Yeah, but I think that you know, it's like another thing Tony, speaking of Tony daddy shout out to Tony like when he set up Australia's first 24 hour gym, dodi's I mean that's why I will have him on the show because we want people
Yeah, but but he was, he tells his storey bit where he.
So he went and opened the gym.
On the first day that it was becoming like 24 hours, 365 days D and that night he went home and out of habit. He went to
LA lock out anyway, now I don't lock up, right? And then he had this cane. He goes, What do I, what do I do with this case? Well, we never need to lock the door again. So there was a panic across the road or a vacant block. He just tossed the key into the block then went hide, because it's like, he's, he's one of his philosophies and my philosophy to is fact Plan B. Because if you give yourself a get out of jail card, you're not fully committed. Like I believe that, too. If you want to excel at something you need to fully fucking commit. If you change your mind that's different, right? And of course you need to be strategic and intelligent and it's
be possible but you know for you guys to not succeed at what you're doing here will only happen if you just decide not to do it because every ingredient that you need which is resources, tech, few dollars behind you and talent and all the prerequisite skills you already have. So the only reason it won't work because if you just stopped doing it because you've everything since you started to now is better. And it's it's, it's not that but it's definitely a nice linear progression. Did you feel like you were trying to prove yourself? Right in regards to going back to uni. As a oldest student, I just wanted to prove to myself that I could do something and I know to other people that'd be like, that's such an underwhelming fact. And I get it, I get it. For me making a million dollars was far easier than going to uni.
I was relatively wealthy before I went to university. I found making money much easier.
Then being academic What did you get from the other side of the university experience to deliver what you were hoping
I didn't know really what to expect but I did learn some stuff a lot of university as you know, depending on what you do is not particularly enlightening but it the academic process is interesting and having to
me going from being this guy in charge of all these people being a leader being
a pioneer and being the captain of the ship to being one of
3000 students or whatever I was, who's a shit kicker walking around with a backpack on just turning up to lectures.
was really good for me. was really good for my end.
Yeah, I loved it. I loved it. How do you think we determine what those things that we have pushed back to in our lives?
How do we determine whether we should do those things because schools one right I that makes me feel sick.
Thinking about having to go back to school? I know that it would bet in me to some degree the the the commitment to it seeing it through Yeah. But then how do you how do you work out? What what how did you do it for yourself looking at uni and going the fact that
it's not something I absolutely needed to do, but it was something that it so full transparency. It gave me more confidence in some domains. So if you go and do something with a team or like a works and California club, I work with nice and motorsport. Work with Melbourne Dixon's Melbourne Phoenix work with a bunch of Olympic athletes, being an exercise scientist helps as well as having all the other skills and so on. It helps me introduce you to because I use that one as well. Also, like it's a it
It shows where like, I guess because if you think you know, you're a
strong looking dude, you're a bit of it like you've got like meathead vibes and it's probably cable. Thank you. It's probably people who would say they associate
That and then they make assumptions on intelligence. But then you've got the beauty of saying, Okay, you've got the meathead, and you've got the university. So you move abroad. Was that part of the part of the thing where it's like people expect this from me a little bit, a little bit? That it that would I mean, look, I'm inherently insecure. So I think most people are inherently insecure, but they won't talk about it. But that was that was part of it, that it would give me some confidence. And it would give me it would maybe open a few doors, and it will give me a sense of, I guess, more worthiness a guys felt even even when I could do something well, and I'd already proven myself and I already had a level of success. I still felt not good enough. Where does that come from? Like within the podcast stuff. What what's the internal monologue for you at the moment? Well, all of that stuff always comes out of fear. So it's trying to figure out what the fear is so insecurity, overthinking procrastination.
self doubt avoidance is a manifestation of fear. And so for me, it was always the fear that I'd be found out that you're actually shit. You I'll be found out that you know, you're, you're not intelligent or you're a fraud or you're, you know, so and I think that's an ongoing, you know, the human condition is overthinking that's nearly everyone is insecurity is self doubt is all of those things and it's understanding that this is not weak or bad. This is human. And so
even before we started, I said to Mr. 97 I go make sure you get me so I look fucking big. And I was only half joking.
The other half Yeah.
Well, I was I was the funny thing is you say that and I think make sure I don't look fat. So it's funny. Everyone's got their in their own storey. Yeah, everyone, you know, and it's funny like I work with what we would call high performers, elite athletes, successful people, actors.
personalities, blokes in prison addicts general population blokes who cut their thumb off.
You know, and and everyone, everyone at the core is the same. You know, we all none of us want to be anxious. None of us want to be lonely. None of us want to be disconnected. We all want to focus on a purpose. We all want to be secure and safe. So if the insecurities are part of the human condition, we just have to accept that they're going to be there.
I guess I guess there's a scale isn't there? It's like, if you live in where we live, which is very privileged. There's not a whole lot to be insecure about. Well, there's not a whole lot, you know, which is not to say that we don't have problems but when you think that, you know, you know, in a population of 7.6 billion on the planet, 3 billion people live on $2 50 a day or less. Well, shut the fuck up. Cuz your life's awesome. Yeah, you know
I always have that I was listening to really interesting podcast yesterday on that talking about light and shade and good and bad and and being able to
appreciate things and sometimes it's like there's a famous saying and that is
the happy person wants 1000 the healthy person wants 1000 things the sick person wants one thing Yeah, right. And so sadly sometimes it takes for us to be ill will have a tragedy or whatever some kind of
event to happen for us to get perspective about how fucking great at life is when your backs feeling fact how does that change your perspective on things like going to the gym and
look, I'd see my back for what it is which is huge.
Love backs not so functional. But in the context of you know, my mom who just dealt with cancer for two years on my dad who heads
heart surgery two weeks ago or, you know, john that I work with that got blown up in a car x in a, an industrial. It's it's I still I'm fortunate that I have that awareness and perspective and gratitude. And I go Yeah, my back's fact it's soul. But it's all I don't have cancer. You know, what do you think the antidote is for? Looking at your situation now and thinking I'm not where I want to be, and so that you you're in this place of restlessness around happiness. Now, it's a part of the journey. Yeah. Is it something you've experienced? I would ask another question. First, I would say is it really about the situation, circumstance, environment, external reality? Is it really about that stuff? Or is my frustration more about my storey?
Right. Is it really about what's going on out here? Or is it really about what's going on in here? like where is the frustration and anxiety and
Lack of happiness or joy? Is it? Is it because about what is it because of what's happening or not happening in my external physical three dimensional world business, marriage bank balance? Or is it really about what's going on in May this the inner dialogue because once again, if you get that person that slack on my life sis and that they're not that happy. Then they find out they're on Monday find out they've got cancer, they don't give a fuck about anything except their health. Well, then Wednesday they find out they got wrongly diagnosed. You actually don't have it, you're healthy for two days. They're the happiest person on the planet. And then they come back to Saturday they're like, are you but so and that's not to say that our external reality doesn't matter of course it does. But again, this comes back to how do I manage my mind and my emotions and me in the middle of all this stuff. That's why I feel like the my
relationship with food is so annoying because in the grand scheme of things that's like, so stupid, right? The idea that the stuff that we eat like if we like, break it apart, it's like what am I? What? Like what? What is the main fee? What is like if because I think for a lot of people, food, weight, all of that sort of stuff is their number one concern in life. Like I think that then how sad is that? sad is that that in the context of global problems Yeah, that their number one problem is fucking Tim Tams. Yeah, it's all their ass. I'm not being rude. Yeah, but it was assignment. I mean, I had food issues for and it's I was pathetic. I'm not even saying anyone else. I'm just, I was so fucking self centred and ridiculous and egotistical and insecure. What are you doing? If you don't worry about it, though? So I wonder like if I was today, take it off the table and say it's a non issue. Yes.
without taking any other action outside of saying it's no longer an issue.
Am I putting my head in the sand? Or am I finally allowing myself to live? Well, that depends. If you believe the storey, if the storey is it's no longer an issue, and that's just words, then you continue on. But when you when that when that thought becomes an emotion that when the emotion of belief or when the emotion, the appropriate emotion is attached to that, and that becomes ingrained, then that has a physiological consequence, then, you know, it's like when you believe that that dude over there is terrifying, then you're terrified. And even if he's not terrifying, it's not about him. It's about the thinking but, but there's a lot of space between I'm obsessed with food and I'll just let it go. And then many people that have success in that idea of think about it less.
No habit, there's habits, yes, bad wine, but it's also it's like when I go you know, like
if I say to you
roomful of people, or if I said to you, okay, Josh, for the next minute, we might have even said this on a podcast before. Don't think about the number seven. Did we say that before? Yeah. Yeah. And so whatever you do, don't think about the number seven. So fact waggon time think about what I'm thinking about it. So how you not think about the number seven issue, shift your focus to that coffee cup, and you go, fuck, that's an amazing coffee cup. And I wonder if that's seven recycled, or, you know, seven. He's thinking and so we're shifting our focus, but you can't,
you can't will yourself there needs to be behavioural change, as well. So it's like, just saying, I'm not going to be scared of that. That doesn't make you feel this way about that. But by doing the thing that scares you, and surviving. Now instead of the fear being a nine out of 10, it's a seven doing it again and surviving again. It becomes a five and then maybe eventually it'll be one out of 10 response more zero.
What are the consistencies in the people you've dealt with? Over the years that have changed their storey around food?
You know, the interesting thing about food is that an end with all behavioural change, there is no three step plan that is universally effective. So Josh has a relationship with you. The two boys that are off camera, have a relationship with food, soda, soda, why? and different things will work for different people. But I know for me
what has worked. And I say this for me what works is clearly defined boundaries. Because even though I'm intelligent and educated, and knowledgeable around food and micro and macro nutrients and physiology and all that doesn't matter, because when I eat shit, I'm just being a human who loves eating shit because it changes my biochemistry and makes me feel fucking amazing. And that's why I'm doing it. There's no logic in it. So I know if
For me, you know you wouldn't say to an alcoholic just have one BMI, you know how alcoholism works, you know that one beer is not going to make your drunk. And you know, you know you've got a grip now, so just have a beer. And that seems melodramatic, but for some people and I am one may, opening the door on certain foods is analogous to opening the alcohol door for an addict. So I know that it's not about eating the cake. It's about for me, the subsequent impact, which is all then or I can unravel and make dumb decisions. And now I'm going to get all the cake so is there I guess the question is, is the is there more fulfilment in deciding that that's off limits and not doing it and using that discipline? Or is the discipline of you know, because the common advice is, just don't be silly about it. Just have a balanced diet like the the thing that annoys me the most
Most when I was, you know, in the middle of my white issue Yes. With the people who said, just have a balance. I think that's trite. And I think that's naive. Yeah. Because that's assuming that see people think that how they think and how they are, you should think Can you should be like that. I'm like, cool. Do that. But that doesn't work for me. Yeah. So it's like what I just described how I work. I'm not suggesting anyone else does that. That's not advice, but it's always hard coming. I always found the balance one a hard one to come up against because I feel the language implies that what you like you just need to be normal like you just like what you're doing isn't is what's normal. It's balance. Yeah, well, I think people would say, you know, you can you can have bread, you can have the piece of cake you can go you know, you can go out and eat that you can have dessert on the altercation.
And yeah, and I remember that being a big
Because I think I would try and then seek my Chi Chi this balance thing. How do I how do I do this? I guess it's not specific either, right? Yeah. And and look most people can and for for most people that's pretty good advice do you reckon the most but I reckon it's probably I don't know if it's shifting that feels like with what we have with our sedentary lifestyles probably leads to quicker decision made like the Uber Eats culture of just ordering and food we slowly seeing the shift away from what would be deemed a balanced lifestyle
you know, it's never been easier to make stupid choices than now. because everything's so fucking accessible. And and you can
you know, you can you can do that damn thing so quickly before you even really think and that's why you know, I think that
This kind of brings up this idea of without trying to sound too deep spiritual, but living consciously and going.
And I think all of us should do this at some stage which is what do I want my life to look like to get money and success and KPIs, but just my life as an experience? And then what kind of person do I want to be in the middle of that? And what works for me not works, what works for you or what works for you, but what works for me? And by the way, this works for me, so you should do it now. That's ridiculous. And this whole notion of there's only one way to work, or you should be married by this are like people say to me, it's so sad you're not married?
What is it? I feel fucking great. And by the way,
I know if if you married people who hate their life, not saying marriage is bad. I'm saying that that kind of conclusion that you are not married. That is sad. Oh, you don't eat cake that's know you're missing out or you don't. It doesn't it just doesn't work.
Black Hat and it's trying to figure out what what works for me, ideally. And you know, for me, like me getting up, I'm probably never more relaxed or calm or in my space than when I'm doing things like this where I'm having good conversations, or I'm in front of an audience, or I'm, but for a lot of people doing this would be very uncomfortable. was standing in front of 500 or 1000 people would be extremely uncomfortable, which is why not everyone should do what I do. Not everyone should do what you do. You know, it's just trying to figure out, where's your space? And where do you play best and where do you Where are you being you best Sam Harris's app wake waking up meditation app, something I love that he said was on the benefits of meditation. So it's all about being more conscious thinking about you thinking but from meditation, and I think it applies to things like food and I think it definitely for me
Doing in every single day is translated different areas of my life. But he says,
meditation sets up an alarm system for your consciousness. You could stop focusing on seven Eric and better than I could.
But so meditation basically, and that consciousness that mindfulness practice sets up an alarm system for suffering. So when you start to suffer this mental suffering, whether it be around anything set off that mindfulness practice, which I think it does, having that consistency and creating that habit is definitely made like when I'm fucking getting into a negative spiral. It's like, it's like it's you know, I feel like doing it every day has created some kind of loop
back because I was saying to miss a 97. I reckon that like you're using the happiest you've ever been. TJ like, what like this from one more on it easy straight, was like, it was hard. There's friction better
Like, there hasn't been a day in the past two months where the team hasn't felt great. I think that's based on
how you've shown up. What do you think that that is meditation is that were not drinking not. So not drinking is huge. Meditation has definitely contributed. But like, for instance, yesterday, I had been shooting those a lot on my mind. I chose I chose to get up at 530 I'm not trying to fucking say I'm a hero. But I was like, this is going to be a tough day for me mentally and I was like, I need to do some form of meditation in the morning to cuz it can only assist me throughout this day. And I think it helped. But what do you what do you thinking before you have a blow up before you get angry about something nice changed, I mean, still get angry in shape, but I think it's that alarm system that you've created. For that when you do. You can pull back slightly, and just any and Sam Harris says he's just like
In those moments throughout the day, try and, you know, remove yourself. A deep breath can be the difference in a moment where you're about to launch into some kind of emotional state. I think one of the things that you are doing better than you've ever done is you managing you
were 100% of your focus and effort used to be in all the external stuff. And that kind of
dictated the quality of your experience. Whereas now, and I think this is part of maturity and kind of moving into living without being lanky, more consciously and is trying to Yes, you still got to manage your life and your responsibilities and your kids and your bills and you know, all that stuff, but at the same time, working on you, so that you mentally emotionally and practically and physically, self manage better, which it sounds counterintuitive, because you would assume that
get the best out of a team. You need to be listening to everyone else. I think that that's proof of that by focusing on yourself and singularly focusing on how you're
working on yourself not for its and working on yourself so that when he turns up or when you turn on your fucking great to be around, yeah. Like when the more that you are working on you, the better mentor, coach, speaker, leader, boss, business partner, friend husband, the better you will be, because wherever you are, you're good. That's that idea of equanimity, the calm in the chaos. And so it's the so when you're around the boys, you're investing in the boys, you know, but yet it's the work that you do away from life. What's the single practice that's been most consistent for you over the last 10 years, do you think?
As contrary is this would say
To this hour talking this and you're hanging for me. My mind is busy, not not in an overthinking why, but just in I
like some things I'm not a like a lot of things I'm bad at, but I think my mind works at like 1.5. And so sometimes when people are talking, I think you're the same. I want to finish. I know where they're going. And I want to finish it, Sammy, Josh, I think we're the three of us and I have to go I got the point of what you're saying good. You can spend. But I think
we've gotten here, but I think podcasting has taught us to shut the fuck up. I know that I like I'm okay with the silence. And I think you've done a massive piece of work, Josh. Yeah, from when we started this. Yeah. And it's being able to be in the moment and be all about the person because I used to be coaching someone or sitting with someone. And I could actually be in the conversation and also be figuring out that thing over
There, and maybe planning that, and I've got multiple things going on. And I could get away with it the conversation, but I wasn't my best self and I wasn't serving them. So I've managed to block out all this and be totally present and also
for me, and you've heard me say this before, but and maybe it's because I'm old. And my time is not but
you know, for me to be consciously like, when I go What am I values I always come back to just being a good human which is, that's my is to operate from a platform of love. And whether that's kindness or service or generosity or time or emotional investment or practical help, or, and I know that when I come from that place, then one I'm, I'm better for me, I'm I enjoy who I am more. The Craig experience is better for me and it's also better for others, but also life is way better. You know, and that's a
Constant work because it's not a natural state, because my natural state is being very human. And so it's kind of, you know, when you go, this is my home plate, this is love. And this is the pendulum that is me. I'm swinging over it and back over it out to now I'm addicted. Now I'm back and I'm focused. Now I want to yell at somebody now I'm being selfish or, but the more that I kind of come back to that place where I'm genuinely investing in others and genuinely listening, and I'm not saying things because I'm a good talker, and I'm articulate not can make this you know, but it's real. It's real, and it's authentic. Then the better things work for me, Eric in the last three years, I definitely since having birdie, I've become a lot more emotional, whether that's accepting my emotions rather than shutting them out. But I definitely feel I've become more emotional. Is this anything for you? Like I struggled like you've had some heavy podcasts in the last year.
Wake is one with a young girl who had a brain tumour. I struggled so hard, because all I can do is go to the place of my son. Yes. Is there something for you over the last, you know, 10 years or I guess vulnerability, yeah, vulnerability and being raw and real and I used to, because as I, as someone who their job is to talk to audiences, you can get up and you can talk because you've got knowledge and you're a bit funny, and you've got a sense of humour and you've got skill, and you've got lots of experience. And so you can come from that very skilled by cerebral place. Or you can get up there from a much deeper spiritual and emotional place and go, I'm just going to have an experience. I'm just going to go and like I did one a couple of weekends ago in which was a public, so not a corporate but a public three hour thing in Adelaide. And I just said, and I don't go in with
Even a bit of paper anymore I don't have I don't have any notes. No video. No PowerPoint presentation. You're not playing the video mode. Yeah,
we might play that in the intro. I've learned a new one but um but where I literally will have a 300 on one conversation and I go so why did you come?
Go put up your hand if you came here because you want to change something on all hands call but not go cool. What do you want to change? And we just thought there I go Why haven't you changed it? And I might go arm and overthink and I go cool. Who else is in overthinking every fucking hand? I go Alright, so right that on the whiteboard and we're alive I think is where does that come from fear. So what are you scared of? And then you just open this organic experience. But But that's also you have to be vulnerable and it's a risk. And you have to be plugged into people. Because there is no I don't have my 20 step process. You've got to be secure. You've got to be secure in that the answers are in
in there, within slide seven, and I can have a an authentic conversation with 300 people. And keep that gone three hours. Do you remember the first time that you did that when you sort of removed all of the bells and whistles? Yeah, yeah. And it's, I mean, it's still there's still obviously there's still a practical in a cognitive element to that because you still, you know, you still want to create connexion, you still want it to be a good experience. And you still want people to have takeaway information and strategies. There's some corporate push, that they still expect are like if you're going to charge, you know, 10 grand to come and talk and you need to have at least seven slides. I keep mentioning seven, seven.
Look it I'll be a slightly more strategic with a corporate because they don't know me, like I did one not last week, the week before for the AFL, at NFL house. So they're all pretty smart. Yeah. So
All the high level kind of players in that, you know, media and multimedia and marketing and business and and you can't go in there and tell three dick jokes and say thanks very much on Craig hopper and wonder I have to do seven, seven, Nick, Josh sorry. But it's it's also so there's an element of strategy and preparedness, but also an element of being in the moment. Because this is what I think if, if you are going to have a if you're going to connect with a group of people, and of course you've got a plan, but you can only plan so much because you don't know who you're talking to. So how do you know what they need? And so I make it interactive so I can see where they are. And sometimes, like I did one recently, and we're about halfway through this was a corporate group.
And now we're leaning much more towards that health, wellness, physical, you know, and I was I was where I was, had intended to go was more money.
behavioural psychology and now really interested in what's what's biological agent? How do I can what's wrong with sugar anyway and all this. Okay, we're at the halfway point. And so and that we're into it they're enjoying it I said so we can go down the more the head stuff the emotional and psychological beliefs and you know fear and all we can do more about the physical so I had to get in shape stay in shape and I'll put on my exercise science hat and I'll be more Craig the trainer rather than Craig the mentor or coach, what do you want? And they'll I sent him said, Can we do the body stuff? I went, No worries. So I put that on hold knowing and we just went down that route. And we spoke about food and micros and macros, and we spoke about progressive overload and how bodies adapt and all this cool stuff. But it was quite science. And they, you know, but they that's where we were and that's what they wanted. And I had a line of people after gone. That was ice because you were listening. Yeah. So I was in tune, you know?
So, and that is the thing like communication, great communication is based on having an understanding of your audience. And, you know, so being articulate or having a great vocabulary or being vocabulary or stringing 1000 words together effortlessly. That's not great communication that's just talking. Sometimes great communication is three words a minute. What are some of the signals that you give off? Like how much of the things that we wear and the things that we say like how much you thinking about that stuff when you go into especially in that presenting spice? Huh? What do you mean thinking about well, just like what you went, you know, for
what reason? Yeah. How you present what you actually but not not necessarily the talk. Yeah, like, yeah, you the kind of guy to be hidden behind stage before you go out or do you? Sure. Yeah, that's a good question. So for me if I'm doing public speaking
where, you know, like, in Melbourne, we have hundreds and hundreds, you know, like up to seven or 800 come to an event and
purely just to save my emotional energy. I don't want to really talk to anyone before the event, just because I don't want to start having, you know, I don't want to start answering questions. And so if I'm presenting it from say, nine to 12, I'll literally hide somewhere until two minutes to nine, come out, do my thing. And then if at the end of it, if people want to talk to me, I'll stay there forever.
But it's also there's the, for me being, you know, trying to be in the moment as well and trying to manage my energy so that I can be 110% for the three hours and not go through. Because one of the dangers is even when you do a lot of podcasts is that you go through them.
It's like you want to do it? podcasters you're excited and it's new. And so for me, literally every gig I do travelling, travelling isn't it before the show? Joe, you have got the the ice bath and the mini tramp and the mantras.
Like, what were there certain things that you actually didn't realise it would affect something like a presentation, but did for instance, and people talk about what they were like you're pretty casual. Dude. Did you ever go through a stage of rocking up in a in a blazer?
a blaze of glory? Um, no, I mean, I hide suits, but that's just me. Like I'm lazy. But if I could wear about certain things, yeah, I for my public gigs. I wear this. Yeah, I'm like, man, is that signalling something like it? Because I got a signalling. I'm just comfy. Yeah, there's a really good book, which you've probably heard me talk about called drunk tank pink. And it's written by a guy called Adam Alta and he talks about the why that you're in everything in your
environment impacts your nervous system and your emotional system. And so for example, like this environment is a really nice environment to do this. Well that's why I say I used to complain about our old office Dermot how much work did I get done in that old office that you complain about? But the funny thing is, is that this space Yeah, there's an energy about this. This where you you you want to sit and do this, like you could have all the same setup and resources in a fucking kitchen and you're like, this is the wrong room. Yeah. Right and why like you've got it's, it's just that and so there's something about that even down to there are certain clothes that you'll be more creative in there. There are certain clothes where you're more productive and have the exact right temperature and Tommy knows my office, you've been to my joint so I love my studio. I'm quite creative in my studio because it's nice. My office upstairs
Live on a main street. And all I used to do is look at cars and concrete. So I planted a million bamboo trees. Now all I can see from my house is garden and green. Yeah, but I work better when I'm in the middle of nature. Okay, so then if it's because I think I've heard you say, it's not a geographical issue, it's a you issue, which referring to, you know, I need to move to LA to do this thing, or I need to move to Sydney. And what point because I get it, I get what you're saying. But there's also there's a storey the other side of that coin of Yes. At what point is it not that you don't have a calling? If you could, if you could work if you could be effective with cars and concrete, and messy environment or whatever? Yes. There's, there's something in that. So when do you listen to the storey? When do you question and say call bullshit on your storey? Yeah. In which bit, I think for for Josh, when we're in the old
That you can of course you can work in. And part of success is being adaptable and being able to be fluid and in the moment, but also that doesn't discount the fact that there are some environments that are just more conducive to happiness and creativity. And, and so that's why like when I came in, I'm like, this is fucking great. And you can I think it's creating a spot that works that works for you as well. I think it's in like,
Austin, Austin Klay on talks, talks about it a lot, but having the, it doesn't have to be fancy, but just needs to be somewhere that you know that this is the area where you're going to show up and do the thing that that you want to do. Let's say that you guys worked. You had all the same resources, but you worked in a building next door. And you didn't have what you have here. You didn't have the upstairs, which you know, so you had the same space, but it was all on one level. And you didn't if everything else was the same except
The physical environment, you guys would not get on as well. Yeah, you would not be as happy you would not be as fulfilled because working in a really nice space
does have an impact on your psychology does have an impact on your nervous system
does have an impact on your performance and how you feel you think that's the under under right a bit because I guess there's people talk about are like, I'm not happy in my marriage or whatever, but they've got financial issues. They're not doing you know, in the right space they want to be in I mean, how do you how do you work out within life? Yeah, what are the actual contributing factors that I need to deal with right now? Well, I think you gotta prioritise and so obviously, if he if you start in a kitchen that doesn't, you know, all that, but But what I'm saying is you've just got to the point where you don't need to but you know, in terms of all the variables in your life, those external things will always play a role and always be an influence. So it's all well and good to say all this stuff, but if you can't pay
bills or Phaedra kids and then you know so there's of course as a practical element to happiness and success and contentment and calmness but I think in the middle of all of that is so you control you control levels. So what I can control is for the most part how I think and what I do and what choices I make what are your non negotiable is if you were to go from one side of the day not habits but things that
is not changing from for you day to day where the non non negotiable is a really boring like training like eating a certain way like trading people. Well.
What's the weirdest non negotiable that you have weighing my breakfast?
So why my breakfast?
Could have been pretty weird. But I think that you non negotiable have a top level can be the trigger for creating better habits in other habits. I also get offered to do things which don't align with my values which would pay me Could you endorse this not
But will give you that not I can't because I don't believe in that.
lucrative talking about the endorsement stuff I saw online yesterday, there was someone posting What was it called TJ, do you know what the technology was on my phone? Send him a bomb.
Got it. So I'll tell you this. I feel I think you pull it up. It's in our Slack, the daily talk show. I feel like this vein because TJ and I want to run it by you. It feels like there's always technologies that promoting fat blasting, but giving your muscles at the same time and all you have to do is do a 45 minute session where something punches you in the stomach.
Yeah, we found one yesterday that we saw someone endorsing which I thought was pretty fucking horrible that a person with such a following would endorse something like this. sculpt and mg. sq. what's the what's the product? Their website? 97. Yeah. So what are these, remember?
Back in the day, that was the chronic, that would be an electric current. So it's not like a temp system, the pregnant women, when you're giving birth have on their lower back to release some pressure release some muscle contraction. It's another form of technology that Tesla use. So it's magnetic, some bullshit. This is what a really high intensity focused electromagnetic field technology that induces super maximum muscle contraction. So for me the bullshit right bullshit right and goes off based on the language that they're using anything that I think that says something like 20,000 put its equivalent of 20,000 sit ups Jim like that. I mean, your hands good. I mean, you're, you've been across this industry, you're you're an expert. And things are changing though, because this is disgusting, right? They offer like, no interest finance to have this done. So this is a trap for you.
Young people yeah, I'm in someone makes me sad is that people?
It's like we want people to walk up the hill. We don't want them to take the escalator, you know, because it's in the walking up the hill that you become strong that you build resilience that you become mentally and emotionally tough that you develop skill that you develop understanding. Well, one that is I haven't looked at it, but it's almost definitely bullshit. But and and, you know, the thing is that when they
what we need with climbs is we need real science by independent researchers. And so what isn't it interesting that it's always the equivalent of 20,000? That's not 9900 if it was science, it wouldn't actually be 20,000 it wouldn't be such a fucking precise number, because the science is never precise. Right.
But it I think the biggest kind of issue is really that
Like we all know that how do you get strong? Well, you work against resistance, both metaphorically And literally, how do you become mentally and emotionally stronger by working against shit? How do you build muscle by going into the gym? How do you build strength by going to the gym and working guns resistance? And that even if that worked, the problem is that's analogous to somebody who gets given a million dollars who doesn't know how to make a million dollars, because they'll blow the million dollars, then they're poor again, and they can't get another million because they have no skill or wisdom or insight into making money. What's not giving you any discipline or any of the things that because I guess that the thing with exercise and all of these, a lot of the things even food, it's not even the food itself. It's the practice of being mindful, I guess. And so when you take that element out of it, so you don't have to think about it, you sit there and you do the thing.
That's the shortcut. It's the bit that's actually the important bit
It's not it's not earned. It's essentially the same as if we were given this studio a year and a half ago. Like all the all the points, all the whinging about now a corner, shitty setups, and it's all contributed to us feel to earning this Yeah. And then so the 10 years away from now, we will have gone through struggles. The good thing is now I don't feel like there's many of those things. We're enjoying the process now, but I'm sure we will work out what the pain point is and what we need to fix very, very soon. How old are you? 28 and you, I'm 30. So if it let's just say let's just fast forward. So now you're 40 and you're 38 right, and you've got another 10 years of experience and wisdom and insight and doing and learning and growing and evolving. Now let's say in some weed for whatever reason, he lost everything. And now you're 40 and you're 38 and you've got from a business sense, nothing. You've got to start again. You will get back to it. What took you to
You should get back there into. Right? Yeah. Because you now know what to do and what not to do. You've now got the hard wiring, the experience, the insight, the resilience, the understanding that connect, you've now got all of this stuff which lives in you, that will make the difference, right? But you can't get that without the 20 years, or the 10 years or whatever it takes the 15 years. Like I know that I could as I was talking to somebody the other day pursuant to your I know I could go and work in a gym Yeah, I know I could pretty much go to any country in the world and if I had to work on a gym floor and Micah grand awake in two weeks, do you know what I mean? If I because I know how to do that. Like I've got it. I've got a full back I've got a default setting I know and it's a different to a plan B though isn't know how to make money. I know how to connect with people. I know how to create relationships. I know how to change body so I know. So you know, I could make a couple of grand awake quite quickly just because not because of
Brilliant, but because I have that experience. Yeah. I think that's like
Tim Ferriss talks about identifying what the worst, you know what the worst thing that could happen be like an exercise and saying, Okay, what does it actually look like? And because for a lot of people, it isn't being homeless. You know, for a lot of us, it's like, going back to mom and dad's place or, you know, and I think that then, that starts to reveal the privilege that we have, which is sometimes the kick up the ass to be like, actually, we need to be doing the thing that we want to be doing. I heard him this 97 can you look up there's a book I think it's called range. Can you find who wrote that? I think it's called range. So you know how that that whole speaking of Tim Ferriss, you know that that
I talk about a lot of educational and high performance coaches that talk about the 10,000 hours of repetition. There's a guy who wrote a book cut out its new I've heard him speak couple of times.
Really, really fucking fascinating around this.
So he talks about the value if you found it yet, David Epstein, that's him. And he talks about the value of being a generalist. So let's say for example,
you've got a kid who
plays basketball from five, and it's kind of casual, they're not bad, they're pretty good at they play. They play basketball from five to 10. And by the time that 10 they go, this is what I want to do. I want to be a W NBA or an NBA player. And so then that starts where they start now to try and properly instal on so it might take from that point 10,000 hours to become what you would call a late or world class or, but the people who come from a background of doing tennis, soccer, football, running, blah, blah, because they they've developed all of these other relevant and relative skills.
properly reception balance paid in a range of situations and forums. It takes them about a third depends, but about a third of that. So maybe 3000 hours. So it's just something to be said. So, you might go.
Like you've never worked in radio, right? I do digital content, but not on air. Yeah. So but because you've done so much stuff, which is in the space, you've already got so many skills that to plunk you in a not that you'd want to be but let's say an FM station, and you're now doing morning breakfast, it would take somebody with no radio experience with similar potential, let's say five x, it might take you one x, because you've already done so much similar stuff. It's a really interesting thing. I think it's served me to be a generalist over specific over specificity what to the specialist so video right?
I, you know, I learned how to film I learned how to edit, I learned how to produce, I learned how to present across those across all of them. Now, I don't think you can make it as just a video guy. Well, I think part of it. I think part of it too is that we, the thing with generalists is you detached to the role. And so, I think that when you are a specialist, sometimes you can be naive or actually blocking out certain experiences based on an editor or someone who works in post production doesn't deal with x, y, and Zed where when you're a generalist, you are. I think, like a generalist. Another way of saying it is just like a lifelong learner. And I think like it being a student of everything and being like, me understanding it, and that's why I love about one of my favourite departments in film production is the grip department that's looking after everything from
crying for the cameras to to mounting lights and doing all that sort of stuff because it feels like it's combining these different things they understand frame rates and ISO and aperture and everything that within the camera but they also know how to fucking tie and not. I think that that's super interesting when you think about, like your background and my background. So I started having deep and meaningful conversations with humans for money when I was 18 because I was gym instructor. I'm talking to people about their bomb and their legs and their emotions and their beliefs and their job and their energy levels and their soul back and their goals and they plan and they Tom title and so you having these meaningful conversations and then even though you're 18 you're helping them create a structure and a process and, and then 19 and then 20 and then eventually doing that as a boss and as a personal trainer and as an educator and and then by the
time you step on the stage where you're doing the same thing, you're just talking. And so by the time I I did my first paid speaking gig at 26 I'd been having a version of that conversation for eight years, multiple times a day. It just was with our person rather than 50. You know, and so that translates it's like I, I love comedy, right? And maybe in another life, that would be something I would do and I'm never going to do it but that would be fun though. You just have to go to one of these sessions. Exactly. It's they basically fucking stand up show.
Renee, Renee brown or there is a huge if you look at how Netflix specials getting done in that arena. It's literally like comedy specials like that. People say to Craig after after these talks, they say great show. Yeah. Let us show you switch off say we should do a dinner in a shot.
So the thing for me to go and do stand up not that I'm going to but
wouldn't be a big stretch because I tell storeys I try and create, well we do create connexion, I use humour. And I use humour and storeys to create an emotional relationship that you can't create with just data. Here's me giving you a whole lot of information. It doesn't work. But my point is to come from the background I've come from it would be a relatively
I wouldn't say painless, but it'd be a much easier transition to do stand up. Versus I've just spent the last 35 years playing a plumber.
Shout out to the Bahamas and he was the funniest on site.
Three day deal was devouring your book the other day? I know that he's a fan. Yeah. And so I thought a good opportunity. You can ask hops a question as a young as a young person who is novelists to novelist Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right. I don't know. Yeah, he's, he's just written oak. Really? What's a cold, I'm still figuring it out.
I should say this fact it's really cold that Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's awesome. You should just show him everything after after we
have you got a question for harps?
Yeah, I mean,
how do you when when you have something in your head that you know you want to do?
And it feels right to you?
How do you then take that? And like going through the process of getting there, like taking Tommy and Josh, for an example. They wanted to do this podcast, but there's all this resistance around it. Like there's a monetary cost involved. There's the motivation involved. logistics, how do you try and like, push that out of the way. Just focus on what you want to do and basically like not letting not letting anything get in the way of what you want know without being a dick about it.
That's good question. So I always say start with the end in mind.
So what is it that like if I would say to the boys, if everything goes fucking amazing for the next two years for the podcast? What's happening? Like if everything goes with your book, if I said, What's the plan? Like, what would you love the out? What's the ultimate outcome for you with that book? You might go, it's in bookstores selling all over the world. And I've sold a million copies and you go, and I'd go great. Well, that's the that's the ultimate few perhaps, perhaps not but right, then I'd say then reverse engineer it. So what needs to happen now for that to become a likely reality? So everything comes at a cost, as you intimated, and there's resistance. So the cost of creating this podcast is time, effort, money, skill, discipline, sacrifice, whatever all of the things that go into this, the truth is, a lot of people want the destination without the journey. A lot of people want the best seller but I don't want to do the work. A lot of people want the ABS but they don't want to sacrifice the dot. A lot of people
So everything, whether or not it's a pair of shoes or a PhD, whether or not it's a great marriage, or it's a highly writing podcast, there's a cost. It might be time, it might be money, it might be emotional, but it's whether or not you are just ready to do that thing. And then you almost need to be obsessive, not obsessive, because that's unhealthy, but you need to be as committed and invested in that thing as you can be while remaining sign. So, you know, and that's, that really comes down to, I would say, what do you want to do be create, whether it's with your book or something else? what is success for you? That's my first question. Then my next question would be alright, well around that what needs to be completely fucking non negotiable for you? So not so you do it when you're pumped or excited or motivated? Or you got the wind behind your back or people are talking cheering you on? All your amazing, none of that. What matters is what you do and no one's looking
What matters is what you do when you can't be fact. What matters is what you do when most people would throw in the towel. So your ability to work through inconvenience and discomfort, and adversity, and unfamiliarity and to embrace that shit is what makes the difference because what's not in your control or your genetics, hours in a day potential, all that stuff is set. So what matters is what you do with it.
I mean, what's that if you were to if you worked out what the destination was, and you identifies that in your primary listener, I think will have to be a TV
If what about if you if you love the best destination, you've got a pretty clear in your mind. I want to be in books. I want to be doing all this sort of stuff. But the process the bit of actually writing the book. I'm not so excited about
Do you think that have you seen anyone that has been successful in around that hasn't enjoyed the process?
Uh, yeah. I think a lot of like for me about to start a PhD. I know that a lot of that won't be fun.
I know that I won't enjoy some of that just because it's laborious and it's repetitive. But that's okay. So it can be Dr. Hobbs. You're going to call me Dr. hops. And can I talk to? You sure. Can't. You can call me whatever you want. Is that what is that? What a PhD? Yeah, you'd be I'll be, you know, let's just say the chances may actually getting their sleep. I want to take
If I go great, three years, okay. We'll prepare the so yes. So you would i would be a doctor of neuroscience. Really? Yeah. Sam Harris. He's a neuroscientist. He's he's got a degree in philosophy and he's got a PhD in New York.
Lights, right? Yeah, Doctor have whatever.
And so the process but yes, you can hate it. You can you can still do it
if there are identified like, Is there any way of identifying and saying okay this is because I, the thing that I can't fathom is when people say, I'm doing a podcast I fucking hate it. And I just think how much we love it and how much energy it gives us. I think overall there's there's the there's this stuff about any journey that you don't love, but it's like sometimes the things that you need to do and not the things you want to do. Why do you think you need to do the PhD? I don't need to do it. Hundred percent i need to do it. I want to do it. Yeah.
And it will. You know, for me, it's like,
every day of my life, I would study for an hour to two hours. And so I'm constantly studying, I'm reading I'm listening on downloading stuff.
was listening to Sam Harris and Tom Bell you on Impact Theory on the way here.
You know, I'm because
for me, I love learning. I love evolving. I love growing and I feel like I can help others grow if I'm stagnant. So I feel one I'm passionate Anyway, I'm excited.
But But I also, you know, the academic process is is sometimes just fucking boring. That's all right. I guess it's the ultimate deep work. I think that's what I find interesting about academia is the idea of shutting the door. Yes, and being focused and doing the thing that you have to do and you killed your 10 anyway, so, you
and not didn't go
where the cowboy election election was nearly now what do I used to say the cowboy, creative capital Korea, you know, that whatever it
Was RMB saying there? It's a business, Docklands. I think the people who didn't go to uni who are hugely successful is a pretty big group.
Yeah, well, I think you're in good company. I think that it's been I've definitely had moments where I'm like, I want to study journalism as a way of being liked and and I thought that that's what I needed. only do that if you just want you definitely donate to it. Yeah. And I didn't need to do what I did. And I don't need to go into a pair. I want it though. Yeah. But it's it's not not a career thing. Yeah. I think that the education system is interesting. I think that the one thing that may be is
discredited at the moment or people aren't considering is like freelance lifestyles great and all that sort of thing. But I think that spending time at that gym as an employee, you learn some invaluable things that when you become your own boss, having those experiences of working underneath someone is super beneficial. And I know that
is going to be a bunch of people who future of work. And they're going to go out tonight and have their IBM number of and go and not have that experience. Yeah, that's completely true. And even when you're working in lucky worked in some gyms that, I don't know, but I'm assuming they weren't all fabulous and all the staff and trainers went fabulous. I worked in good gyms and not so good gyms when I was younger. But, you know, even if you're an environment where there's some shit that's going on, that you don't like or approve of, or it's not professional, or it's not ethical or it's not.
You can still learn from all of that because it gives you an awareness around what you don't want to be and how you don't want to operate. You know, and so, but I think one of the challenges now is because because we've got so much availability and accessibility to everything. And you can get qualified, for example, to become a trainer in eight minutes. And then we've got 12 year olds coming out going, I'm going to help you change your life. I don't mean that disrespectfully, but it's almost that
I feel like going know what you've done as you've said the exam and passed the test. And that's really good and well done. But go and get some experience and get some context and go and have 1000 conversations with people. Was it always that like in the 80s and 90s? Was it just as easy becoming a Peter? Yeah, it was actually a little harder.
And look, it's not that's not a slight on any individual. That's the system. And so that's that's the process, you know, but if I if you know what, I'm boss of the world that will change you think? Why is it is it because of government incentives was not it's not a government regulated industry. You don't even need legally. You don't even need to be it's not illegal to call yourself a personal trainer, you just won't get insurance. Sure. But and I'm not suggesting anyone does that. And, and again, that and at the other end the sky there are PhDs who are terrible trainers and there are three and four trainers who are fucking amazing, but it's about
You know, there's an element of,
I guess, skill and experience and knowledge of course that comes with the training. Then on top of that, like why Hey was a good trainer, it's got nothing to do with these fucking course. And everything to do with who he is and how he is and he's likeable. And he's got good self awareness and he can communicate and he gave a shit and that's why he was a good trainer not because he did that course at that place. And so if you're coming off the back of doing a six week course someone's listening to this podcast now and they've just done that. How can they remove the stigma from from themselves or how can they feel good in themselves as a personal trainer How could they reframe it? Yeah, I can talk to my experience because I I was mean nothing in comparison to you going back and becoming an exercise scientist but me coming out of school as a kid that fucking misbehaved and didn't want to do school and thought, oh shit around learning and all that stuff. me doing that eight week course.
was huge in terms of my confidence I passed it. And then I called this book and I said, Matt, do you reckon I could come and do some work experience at the gym? Because I knew that it's like, I've got what Who am I got? I've got this thing that I felt good about passing. But then I wanted to get some real experience. And then I called him. He said, fucking No chance. You can't work at my gym. But you can do some experience. Yeah, I asked for a job first. That was the thing. But I then was amusing. And then I got it. I mean, it's probably one of the thousand phone calls he got, he probably can't remember it. But then I got a job in a gym, on the gym floor, and knew I had to earn my stripes. And so if you actually have that mentality of guy, I've got this thing, which is the tick of the box that you need. It's great. It's the key to the door. Yeah, that's it, and then start working. And it's well, it you know, well done on doing that. And to everyone who does so three and four well done. It's a really good achievement, but understand the totality of what it is even people who and you know this even someone who's got a PhD in exercise science, someone who's a doctor
anatomy physiology, biomechanics, energy systems movement, physiological adaptation, progressive overload all of that scientists shit, you rapping then I was afraid. But if they can't communicate and connect and coach and be in the moment and be likeable and reliable all that PhD doesn't matter. Well that knowledge doesn't it's not effective. And so I would rather for example, if I went his my ideal it year old Mom, I've got a PhD over here who's socially inept. And I've got Tommy over here. I'm picking you, because my mom will enjoy the experience with you. She will Yeah, she'll go. It's not rocket science. Marin jump on the bike. How'd you go on the weekend? Or do you do how's Ron? Has you hear what Jacob Ricky? What's going on to just say the royal wedding or whatever. It's the only reason I had a business. Like is it mean you talked about times where you actually didn't try. I try
Brighton's maybe you're a hard basket but I had some some others from Albert Park that when I when
I went they came in as it Tommy are I had a big night last night I don't want to try and we go for coffee. And so we have a coffee they pay me their 80 bucks. They wouldn't actually try and I get paid to have coffee. I was a gigolo with that the other bit I never did that Tom
stay right pop up. Night. Thanks for coming on. People can go to our new website the daily talk show.com you actually click guests. You'll say Craig copper up the top because you've been on some of the like the most amount of episodes and Amanda Absolutely. It actually does I repeat offender No, no, no joke because
our web gronk set up labels so depending on how many times he wrote, it said repeat offender next up tonight. No joking. I said can we just cancel the labels pause before I tell
gotta throw them all that's it that's it that's funny bit Craig hapa.net you've got all your stuff stuff and shed your love when you're doing stuff around it. Sure. And the project obviously on the apple podcast and you can actually click through it's like in our like people who listen to the daily talk show listen to a
lot of people have migrated over from your podcast not not migrate not know nothing. wrong wrong wrong with
me. I don't have a I don't have a PhD or vocab.
Thanks. Thanks, Craig. If you've listened this far, please do a screen grab do an Instagram storey. Yeah, even tag up whiteboard lessons on Instagram so that Craig knows that you're listening. Otherwise, we will see you tomorrow where it's just TJ and I see you then Bye, guys.