- July 8, 2019
It’s Fat Fridays, and we’re joined by Jules Lund! We talk about his biggest learning, the stress of a startup, and what makes new media different.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show we discuss:
– The Space Series festival
– Raising capital for TRIBE
– Purpose and stress
– Jules’ biggest learning
– Our Fat Fridays order
– The fragmentation of media
– What makes new media different
– Proving your value and its ROI
Email us: email@example.com
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
A conversation sometimes worth recording with mates Tommy Jackett & Josh Janssen. Each weekday, Tommy & Josh chat about life, creativity, business and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and friends of the show! This is The Daily Talk Show.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
It's a daily Talk Show Episode 384 Welcome back. It is fat Fridays this time with Jules Lund.
That's so offensive. What? I've been jogging. I've been working.
Cut out carbs. Josie told me yesterday, Josh, that he's training for a marathon, which should mean that you're good for fat Friday. You're putting calories ago. Yeah.
Yeah, to worry that run that fast. All that far. How is
the training going? Because you're training for a marathon, the New York
Marathon if you're going to do a marathon, do the New York Marathon, so I'm excited by that. I think there's about 50,000 people running 2 million spectators 19 parties, and it doesn't have all shuffles here trying to film
when you say old shuffles, you're referring to me and there was a time where rickshaw up
with you. Oh, God, I couldn't keep up.
Well, because I was 110 kilos. And there was a heel. Yeah. And we paid a rickshaw driver who, in all fairness for them. They're just like, they're not like a No, it's okay. Film and TV rich. It's just some some do trying to make some cash Spanish, so Yeah, exactly. And so I had the camera and I was trying to get the tracking shot. And, and and we couldn't get up the hill.
Have you? Have you run a marathon before?
That was the days when you had fat Friday? before? Well, that was I mean, Josh and I, we worked on faith angels radio show, and he was faithfully and know. And that was a stunt where they lifted a blindfold and said You gotta run a marathon because you're at the start of the London Marathon circuit and a week later be the the Olympic marathon. This is the path admittedly, today it's just full of traffic and commuters. But see how far you can run you know, trying to one side. Emphasis on the other and so we tried to ever run didn't wait. Yes. And so I did run the marathon that day. We didn't feel much of it. Because I was flying. There was what I what I remember from that trip is discovering him. Cadbury did popcorn can
What did you discover from that trip?
If you're going to our cameraman
that was a lot on candid photos.
I think we should type of back ass swearing on this episode. No, no, no, no, no, I haven't. It's funny that we're in the presence of Jesus daughter Billy.
So Billy. Billy,
I know you don't want to you wouldn't want us to say that paint is that I've been told off by Jules a lot for swearing around kids to be honest. On the way over here.
Billy was the DJ. And we had to have a quite a discussion because Molly was dropping some f bomb. Yeah. And I see Billy like, he can't choose this music and she goes put on the radio. It's different. It says mess up. And so we we put on explicit the explicit content toggle.
And so then that actually
look to be honest. Billy's nine she understands that the swear words really she uses them you don't get to listen to that music full stop.
Yeah, I feel like Tommy doesn't care at all when it comes to swearing and
he's he said the F word quite a few times now.
Not feeling has been even
know the thing is he still doesn't get it right. And he said you know who was saying it? Jemima? I haven't even told Mikey this. My brother's little girl. She was
three and a half but he's two and a half
she's the bed is
Seriously, I I have removed my swearing from the takes a bit.
It actually is radio dies. I was you eventually get good at just cleaning yourself up because it's just too risky. Because you'll forget the casual and then you'll drop one. But outside of it. Yeah, I swear too much and especially when I'm nervous. So on stage or if I'm emceeing.
You remember my wedding?
memory? I think you told me I was wearing
a you your did I Heckle you?
Yeah, call me. I told you that. Oh,
I said stop sweating. He was swearing. Because you obviously
It was sweat. It was a fancy loving sentiment what he was saying, but it was a filthy mouth.
I mean, Amy. Amy, Tommy's wife has a background in like she's she went to Bible school wasn't in my Christian audience. Yeah, actually, that
store you drop was pretty good, too. Because when I say I can't remember. Well, you I feet. You did it because of the way you and Amy met. That's right.
So yeah, I met Amy in Bali and potato head. And if it wasn't for George's class at the time, we wouldn't be together essentially. That's pretty it's pretty good. You're welcome. It was good.
The thing was, I I these girls that said, like they were chatting, and then I just said can I just hold you there for a second? And I said, I was thinking myself Tommy single. And so I quickly brought Tommy over. And then once Tommy was there, I might have sort of got a bit pissed. And then when we were in the pool around the cocktail bar with the girls, I ripped his
Boxes show because not sexy shows. What are those calls jokes, jokes. I ripped them off to now he's bought naked stuck in the in the pool. And then I threw them. And then the next few days later, we were jogging past and there was over seven Yak beach. Yeah, but it worked. And so you're welcome.
Sitting in nude next to Amy.
And then I thought there's no towel and she was stuck with this. Man. She just met end just quite religious. Yeah.
Well, at the time she I mean, she. She had been to Bible College. How many of you are pretty religious if you've ever gone to Bible college, but she was on the back end of doing that? So she was like three or four years out of Bible college? Not so
great. Never seen a naked body? Yeah, yeah. countable because Tommy used to be a stripper.
Yeah. So you're in your element. It came here. I mean, Bodie did what my body said that you had a
gym I had some stuff to say.
But on the show I saw on your website Did you cause bond over stripping? I know he
was actually didn't even think to ask him because he
lives in a lie and he was a topless wiser to a gay bar.
I think he stripped it at one of our friends his party. Really? Yeah. And he just mentioned it to he wants and he completely denied it. Okay, so he sounds like he's not he doesn't want to tell people no one looks like ash Really?
looking dude is an interesting ease of begin grogginess looking fella.
Nice. I like it. Georgina. Seems a nice payment. And he's a good looking long haired,
black with a high androgynous.
Wherever you were, was the last place you travelled. Were you just in London? Or did I make
no last one was it bar and by actually a spice series, which was a conference up there, which was quite mind blowing, actually. And I think you should get a lot of the guests on the show because a lot of them were genuine disruptors, innovators, people that live outside of the the Confirm conformed nature of life.
So how did you get a spot? How does one get a spot? How does one go and talk at that at that?
Well, you pay for it. So you go. And then everyone that goes basically is no schedule for so for three days, they literally just put up blank schedules, and people turn up with a contribution, a session that they think would add something and so someone could be talking about, you know, education is broken, the other ones could be talking about their, you know, the adventure like the Joneses. This couple that walked across the outback for 1500 kilometres with a one year old. And so they screen there, there is sort of documentary that they filmed on their iPhones, and was incredible. Paul and Tammy rose. So Paul rose, you know, they do amazing stuff around leadership. And so they did a big session. And so everyone just contributing their superpower, really, because events
can go either way, like events can like it. There's a lot of events that I saw. Well, not even that but just like in general conferences are hard to nail on. You've been to a bunch what what do you think, are the key takeaways? If you're running an event, what are the things that matter that people yet normally don't think about?
Well, I actually what was fascinating, the guest list was curated. So he would have picked the top 50 people that he felt deserved a place and then he invited us and said you can come and then he had a sort of you had to apply to come to it. And so and there were people that just didn't didn't get a spot I got knocked back. So there was a couple of hundred there elements in bar and it was standing big teepees and and so having people that were curated and that were a certain calibre or at least really wanted to contribute meant that even though you had all these sessions during the day, the most enriched experiences with just casually walking somewhere and chatting to someone but you know, everyone from media and entertainment, you know, like Magnus Urbanski was there and she was talking about, you know, the book that she wrote about the Holocaust and what her role her father played in it, who was an assassin you know, under this Oh, my god and so you know, you having dinner having drinks and then she's just up sharing storeys, and it was just so authentic. But
were they capturing it audio video?
I think so. Yeah. And you know, one of the other ones that I hope you can get on the show is Diane McGraw who isn't in the on the shortlist to go one way to Mars, to create the first colony. So how long would you think it takes to get to my
I sort of high board I think, I think a low board maybe I'm What? I was gonna say 15 years
to obviously Can I could take like, they get halfway, then I have kids and those kids go. Why can't
you get Also, we're not swearing? Why co I'll become? Why can't make it back?
Yeah. Cuz it's like, Yeah, well, they're going off on 20 2031 is when they're launching, and I think they're down to about 100. And then it gets down to 12. And then I think that first one gets down to four, Rob. And what's fascinating about it is that the atmosphere, the gravity, so you cannot launch from up there. So to launch from here, the amount of equipment fuel and actually the thousands of people that contribute to being able to launch rocket at the other end, you don't have that. And what's more is if you were to jump out of if you were just having flashbacks to Martian so because you know Martian what he had to do was
film Josh man diamond
at that time and had to get back up to the shuttle ride, because they weren't able to take off. So if you were to jump out of a vessel with a parachute, it would do nothing, you just hit the ground and die. So the you just can't get any launch. So the only way to land there is to do reverse jet thrusters. Janata mean otherwise, you know, the
the things that mask has they like Yeah, it looks like it's in reverse. But then what are the hair follicle? Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, what it
not is just red dirt and what they have to then extremely hot. I don't know if it's extremely hot. It's just because it's weird. It's it's cold in here.
So I told him in Melbourne.
You just thought that the Dustin Dutch was red blue.
Yeah, I mean, that makes
the places and blue.
I interviewed a guy and Sharon who was going for that he wouldn't have made it past the stage. So it's been years it would be would have been three years ago.
If we find anything about your contacts in shepherd and they're all
they wouldn't have passed the drug test.
He had a link to shepherd and he didn't leave there and he wasn't the barista wasn't definitely not the barista from yesterday's episode that said he was his ankle on two times you and her jet. It turned out to be bullshit. Some guys found me a bullshit storey, which I said
we had the previous
is failing ours. Have you done that? I mean, you've had done a lot of interviews Have you stuffed
how you would have
just said some
never never had never had a mistake in my life. Especially not only.
Actually, that's what I was. That's what I was just thinking about. You told me on radio, while you were on here you taught taught me what shelving was? Yeah, you said this way. Yes. I think this is fine. Because it's you made a shelving joke. And then the analogue was all weekend. Oh, I was like, Wow, what's what's all that about? And then it wasn't until
you got pulled in. Basically, it's usually about chapter three in the IKEA catalogue.
Exactly. But it was it was pretty. I remember that being an eye opener.
Well, I'm glad that I contributed to your vast knowledge. But the thing is exciting. The reason why. What I think is a lot of people didn't get through and this is what was really fascinating is they're taking ordinary people. So they're not even though Diane, who I begin to chat to is a cyborg. Like, she's just so amazing. Like she I think she's in her 50s or 50. And body, it would be 25. And she sleeps and she's very regimented. And she's incredible. And you can you just she looks like she should be an astronaut. But the other people that they've got, they've got like, you know, average people do you think pop stars and you know, like it's not they they want real normal people to go up there. They still have to pass psychological tests because you're basically it's a one way ticket. You're not coming back. She said to her Mom, look, I I've got a new job. You know, it looks like in a mom's I congratulations. Tell me more about she goes I can't Yeah. Because her mom, you know, like you basically all your loved ones you're saying goodbye to them for never do you need like
special skills? Surely they'll draw the line? Oh, yeah.
Yeah, you gotta be able to do poo. Because that's what you grow in all your food out. Oh,
really? What? Wow, course
he hasn't seen it.
I haven't seen any Titanic. I have actually
give you a spoiler alert. But instead
if they've rebuilt the is that what Clive Palmer was doing was Hey, Ray, rebuilding the
history. That's not my history.
The Titanic restaurant in Williamstown, where you walk in and the moves like the entrance sort of does a bit of I think a
bit of Celine Dion in the background.
The last time that we spoke, you just raised 10 odd million. Yep, spend it all. But what's what is the deal? Like? What's once that goes through? Does it literally appear in tribes bank account?
Well, for people that aren't in business or in startup would just see the numbers out there? You've got all that cash?
Yeah. Well, the I mean, for the people that didn't listen to the other 14 hours of interview. So I've got a startup called tried our launch about four years ago. And the idea of a startup is because you building technology costs a lot, and you see an opportunity go, let's go for that. But if you white around to just become profitable for the profit to come in above your expenses, to reinvest, you know, like a business, we go, look, we've got enough profit. Now let's reinvest it to grow this business, you basically get outside investments, you get other people that go, hi, if I give you 10 million, I hope it turns into 100 million, you know, in five years time. And so what you do is at different points, you raise that money, and basically what they're doing is they're buying parts of the business. And
where do those business? Where do those bits sit before they buy it to people? like you who own bits? Yeah, give it up?
Yeah, exactly. So, you know, like it started, I started with 100%. And then I slowly get down, because, you know, you get it, you give it to staff, you know, people in a startup world, you don't have a lot of money. So you're sort of saying to people, hey, I want you to work for this, but also his, his a bit of the company so that you because the reality is you're gonna work so hard, and it doesn't work in a nine to five realm. So people need to get paid for their wage, they got to enjoy that they're building something that can be massive. It's incredibly high risk. So the idea is that that money comes in, and you get that money by saying to people, right, that money is going to last 18 months. And in those 18 months, we're going to do this with the business, if you give us that money will do this for the business. So they give you the money. If whenever reason you don't do that with a business and you don't increase and grow at the right. always going to grow, grow with the right. You should, then then and obviously, you're running out of money, because you're spending all that money to get there. The next time you go out and say right, we need another 10 million. So what are you going to do with these 10 million? You say, we're going to grow like this? And I said, why would we believe you when you said that last time and you didn't. And so you can really it? there's enormous amount of pressure on the timing, because your business can be absolutely perfect, but the category can go badly. So we're in influencer marketing, and I reckon it's just about to finally open up. But at the moment, you would say that well done. I
know that's the sceptic that most investors pay yo yo yos you would say that? Well, of course,
yeah. And so you find yourself maybe you do, like I said, I I'm optimistic about it, like I see how the play is going to happen. But if it doesn't, then you lose credibility. And you said, when you said that loss didn't happen. So you really got to predict the future, you've got a, you can't just predict it, you actually didn't have to try to make it happen. And if there's market forces that don't allow you to your bubble keeps getting bigger, and you know, it feels you're growing. But if you if you can't deliver on it, it's it's a really frightening thing. And there's not a lot of margin for error, which is why so many. So many just fall into April, they just stopped
those at 12 months. So how long you those, each of those sort of milestones?
Well, funnily enough, it takes you 12 months to convince someone to give you money at times. And so even when you've got money, you're already out there telling the storey for the next
and does it almost change. So when you started getting that 10 million, by the time you got it had the market change to the point where you actually had to say, Okay, now that we're all across that he's x y&z that's actually changed in the market.
We you don't go into that much detail. I mean, I, I would prefer to because that's my bread and butter, where I can just say, Well, here the market forces the reasons. But often there's reason, you've got to identify with the reasons for growth. And sometimes it's your own platform. So we go right, we're really good at getting customers, but the customers aren't happy with it. Right? It with the influence of content then might not be enough. So they've been spent all their money, right. So maybe they say that or they go look, we had a really great experience. And it was a perfect campaign. We will love to use it again. But the reality is, it's it's an influencer campaign. And we only do those every eight months. And so they love you. But yet the category isn't always on so people aren't going right. I'm going to do influencer marketing, you know, always on a campaign that runs that the campaign can turn into Father's Day to Mother's Day to Christmas, which it should but but the the the maturity of the market and the why brands see it just hasn't arrived yet. And so all of the n plus thousands more, you know, whether it's the right staff member that's I would have found the strategy, whether it's the right strategy, like it just goes on and and your abilities to try and turn dials, tiny dials, because you can't do big dramatic things, because that's too risky. And everyone goes you should be doing this. And you know, the worst part is, you know what you have to do? Because you building tech, it takes so much money and tos to actually do it. I was actually going to point out one thing on the app gronk. I'm just
joking. But you've had that along
with shadow band you so basically, I can't access it for
some reason. It's probably cuz I don't have enough followers. When does it shift from being a startup? To a business to a scale?
Start up and then scale up? To be honest. Uber's still calls themselves a startup. So
because they're still in debt?
Yeah, now, isn't
it? Yeah, absolutely. They're not definition of businesses in
banks. The prior beanbags at the office.
Next to the ping pong table.
It's um, yeah, it's it's it's interesting that the different markets that you're playing in, because there's obviously the Australian market, and then there's the stuff that you're doing in New York at a site like in the US have a siloed? Are you saying a bit?
Yeah, this is different customers. So New York has a more mature digital market. And so they understand digital a lot better. And they will have got better infrastructure, they have better infrastructure? And that's, that's the reality of it. And they also have it, they just so much more enthusiastic about technology? What what like, why do you think it's, I just think they got in there earlier. And there's, it's a more competitive market and
money at stake, as well, I guess, is it easier to get brands or influences from your side of things?
brands? Yeah, I mean, we look, we get influences just common. And you know, we can always scale that up. But the brands, it's the, in America, they see a big problem. And they need a big solution. Whereas here, I mean, anti SEO disagrees with this in some respects, but for me, in Australia, so we're a tech solution, where you can aggregate 100 micro influencers for a campaign in like days, and it's really cheap, and the content all comes through before you've really pay this, and you're going to still pay for your budget and commit to the platform. But you still got a bit of flexibility, making sure that the content that appears in front of you is actually on brand before it gets published. So in Australia, it's not that big a market, there's not that bigger influences and the budgets aren't that massive. You could conceivably just do that yourself. Yeah, it's annoying, but I could pull together. Yeah, yeah, I could. And if I worked with an agency, they could do it pretty easily to run in America, you just can't
Yeah, well, if you if you're doing if you want to do a user generated thing, and you do whatever you might want to reach 100,000 people or something? Well,
it's just it's and so we've been building for scales. So it's a self serve platform that we want to do it on a really big scale. And so Americans need that scale, because they don't want to just do a campaign with 20 marker influences, well, we just reached 1.3 million people or something, you know, in America, it's not even worth spending your time and your money on that, like, you're going to be reaching 10s of millions. And so where I love it is that doesn't necessarily mean you have to aggregate 1000 micro influences. But what I like and what I'm excited about is that influencer generated content, and it goes to the next step, which is, you know, influences, you know, traditionally create the content that posted to their feed. But we've got the content that brands love so much, and they just use it in their own social advertising or on billboards. I love the idea that it just becomes customer generated content, which means any customer you go to Target, you bought a jacket, you will get you get an email that says hi, when the new jacket back, just email in a photo of you wearing it. And all of a sudden, the brand has this sort of stock image library of content shot by their own customers, its scale, and its speed, that that really excites me. So over there, what can brands do with all of our content, when they put it into social and put it into outdoor, which is billboards, etc?
Has has the idea of chasing the long tail, which I all of those smaller micro customers are? Is that a shift in tribes? Original business model, do you think? No, we started like that, but probably too early.
So in retrospect, a wonder whether like, we would just build for long tail self serve, jump on creative brief, get your content. But it's, you then need to be able any sort of hype, word spreads or word of mouth, but you need a pretty sophisticated digital marketing team. Because you're reaching the long tail. Your product is built for the long tail, you need to tell the long time ago, you need an enormous amount of money to be able to speak to all those customers. Where is the other end, which is non long tail, which is big companies, you can basically go in there as a salesperson, and get their team around a table and talk to them. And their budget might be 50 grand. Yeah. And so we're, we were very good at that. So even though we were building for a long time, we are sales infrastructure, and the white was, you know, sort of almost hand to hand combat.
It's almost like a loyalty programme and summer. I love that.
I absolutely. I think that target example absolutely is and fashion brands love that because I need you know, they, they can have something, it's six months old, that content needs to be, you know, get it in straight away, put it in the social ads, and then a month later, it's gone.
What's gamified stuff we've been talking about? Like, we've got the gronk squad, which are the people that listen to our show. And wow, that's main, kind of what we're all gronk you're a gronk you're actually you're a king fucking gronk.
But, and we put that as the Twilight. Jules lon, you're the king gronk the king in gronk.
Yeah, absolutely. But no, I think that it's interesting, the gamification of this stuff around creating community where it's like, rather than it being clean, always transactional as well, like just cash I find interesting. I think
you look at someone like Frank body, the user generated content is amazing was the snow storm that became business, right. And so that's like, perfect world, you can actually do that. Yeah. But how do you do that? That's the million dollar.
And also, what about the 98% of brands that don't have fanaticism? Yeah, from there. So it's very easy for brands that have put the hashtag in and everyone's celebrating Tesla, or Iran celebrating Nutella. But what about every other brand? all the brands are just starting off? And so it's about it's about activating everyday customers to make them think, Oh, yeah, I can actually get rewarded for genuinely expressing a brand that I already use and love having prideful. And as you say, it's like a loyalty because you know, you can win back vouchers that keep you in the keep you coming back to that same ecommerce platform.
Yes. That's really interesting. Should we do the fat friction, we
should say throughout the throw this whole journey? How many years for now?
Yeah. It's only been four years. Yeah. What feels like so much?
time? Yeah, I aged about 10 years in the first two
years. There's also a tipping point in age I feel when you get to a certain age. I don't know if it's a startup, but I don't you agree with that? You hit a point where
it's just we can't really tell there in the 25 to 35 Yeah, it's like a swim
that's like your
watch. And yours is agile. 7040 or something? I turned
40 a couple of months ago. So I don't like it. But I was actually thinking today
30 best, feeling the best. Feel good. What's wrong with 40? I mean, you're, you're more responsible than you've ever been. Now, I've gone into more responsibility than you ever have. I want to be more respect. I think you're a better person.
I know. But I'm more boring.
Now. But isn't it
but I have to stress less about getting in trouble for
different parts of life
my responsibility with great responsibility, you know, you are more responsible but that he therein lies the the burden
but doesn't feel like you have ownership over like you you've created the ship. You know you've got you can have really
doesn't allow ship.
Yeah, well, and
as a sell off partnership.
No, I but I'm igniting is you I person and I have autonomy, but you know, the autonomy that I get to make the decisions within a very
list of parameters. Like I reframe it, it gives you purpose.
So I've certainly got purpose,
then what more could you want? Freedom, freedom, but then I think that's a hard one. Because Where's your purpose? Once you've got the freedom? I think sometimes the struggle sometimes the the friction can create a Yeah.
But you know, like, God, imagine if, you know, I walk out of this with some money, this podcast
if you find it anywhere.
I think you know, because often wonder like, what do you do if you did sell a business? And would you be lost without purpose? But I think you've got a then you've got a family. Yeah. And I also think, you know, purpose can be, you know, giving back and also I think, artistry, like I love photography, I would love to take photos, there's absolute purpose there of expressing an art form, but it doesn't come with shouldn't come with stress. I want to be busy. But stress and pressure is very different. When was
the last time that you worked when you weren't stressed?
Yeah, I live in a constant state. Yes, I don't need to, I think I just, it's like a blanket, I'll just pull over me.
Because maybe that's maybe that's the thing too, right. Which is, it's like, there's always sit like, as I do it all the time to where, like I, it would be so much better if x, y and Zed. But then that is so much part of your DNA. And I believe
I genuinely believe that that just takes management and you've got to be really I would hope absolutely dangerous. Imagine you didn't achieve those things and someone with my with that purpose get pretty depressed. So the opposite of stress is but I you would have to really manage it and restructure, but I pretty I'm pretty clean now and what is the most important thing in life with a tension sets is that I'm not able to live it. Whereas years ago, I thought the value was in the final the fortune or the business, whereas it is just with my family. And so it's funny, I mean a tunnel. I'm very aware that you know what, how much more like what am I actually need. And I actually not even proving myself there is but I've started this thing. I actually am very passionate about the overarching ability or opportunity did change the face of advertising in a really creative, disruptive way like that sites me like all all day long. But it comes at a sacrifice I I already realise is probably too costly.
Now, I think we have the fat fried.
tried a lot.
what's the what's the biggest thing you've learned about yourself over this journey?
Well, I've learned resilience.
What does that mean?
Well, it's really tough. And you really you don't have a choice, but to sort of pick yourself up. And in those moments where you think it's all this, you know, it just gets tough and you go God, we're in trouble here. We won't be able to rise up before the last rise.
What was it? What uh, what are the worst case scenarios actually went into your mind?
Oh, the embarrassment of a going Ah, there was this amazing thing and we just literally just yeah, we ran out of money. Like literally can Michael my standing mistake. If you run out of money, they take you out of the game, it's over, no matter how amazing and people would just say that as a file.
What would that what would life look like? What if that hadn't have happened? You know what what ended up happening is happened I guess that's the other interesting thing is we think of anxiety is worrying about things that are in the future startups by design anxiety inducing because it's always on this trajectory to looking at what it's going to
mainly the future always looks brought in my so I'm a I'm a long term optimist, but a short term pessimist
Yeah, but the only thing is we all we have is the present which is the short term and I yeah, but I think I'm the same in regards to like the thing that excites me about the show is actually not talking with you now it's talking to you in 10 years and it being biggest show and a different show that like the present for me has always felt like the step that I'm having to take eventually get to the point we
talked about yesterday it's the way we are now is not where we want to be radio is bringing a place
Come on in three days
and this is a thought about you Jules and I thought what do you love? It's Nando's? That was more when we got it for free.
Nando's last week we go between Guzman and then does
Yeah, but the other thing I thought was your freezer is filled with Ben and Jerry's ice cream.
And look at little bill she's and we've only got Four Tops Billy and there's only three of us. So bad news for you. I was your one at one bar but this is like three rear keras Should we
get balls as well?
Yeah. I don't know what your favourite flavour is. So we got for some What is your favourite flavour? fish food? fisherman See
I said that
it wasn't a Willie's
it wasn't a three day deal. Okay, yeah, I knew I saw fish food I just saw
because what I did was I yelled out fish food and they all like
fish and then Ben and Jerry's ice cream Do you know the best slogan of all time you'll love this is and this is Dr. Marketing and last few years I feel like there's been a lot more of a but they their slogan was the ice cream with less ice cream in it.
Oh yeah. That's genius because it means that there's more bits and as someone you could probably relate you
as a general rule you want the
you want you want violet like the crumble in the Hokey Pokey. Like
how much pressure do you put on the Oscar me God
had mental practice
standing there and you know they got the rocky road and they just go for vanilla Yeah, and you're they going if you don't get on that other side or they'd like the honeycomb and stuff you that you would just look at them gay if you don't hit that vine
is a place he I think in our pack and ice cream shop amazing but I've got a trick so you get to scoop but you want the one flavour that you want the most of yeah yeah of course you want that first one right yeah that's more it goes in Do you think yeah don't step out don't get it on the top because the second so you gotta
you don't give them to you just say
wow I'm thinking that one and then he knows exactly what you want I mean Josh is avocado
Mad Mad Max or because money any of those places
this is this is a good one because Manny
Guzman goes Matt Grossman a gun Good morning.
Goes man goes me
because money no Jim we look up that how do you say it just
goes Bonnie Gomez
No. Mr nice hasn't got a 97 into school.
I know Andy too much time I don't talk to the emailing the marketing today and I've been on stage with
Manny No. Wise is he does a soft
and a which is why okay.
Anyway if you guys watch a Mad Max any of those places we don't do it
welcome Oh, what I do is I even do this a AAA us never heard of us Brian or
not but I Guzman over there you know, but they
I think they launched one check it out. Really? Jj launched in America
and Japan they're owning that we're going fast the
what you do is you ask for me. And then once they put on the first amount of mates I actually can have double make
that's the first amount of make dishonour and then a double the rough. Yes, this is your coffee cup thing.
It's just a bunch of scumbags trying to look for loopholes. Exactly. No, I'll give you one more and this isn't a loophole my life hack.
And I don't know if you do this but every time every time you get out of a Uber What do I say?
Every I think I've mentioned on the show five years what
do you do you get there and he's got the confidence that you giving him five stars he gives you five stars every time my way riding through the roof and I get out and I give them one
with tribe what I'm curious about is do you you talk about you provide a cheap option for brands? Is there a risk in doing what Uber's done with drivers income monetizing so much that squeezes that end of the of the market
so it cheapens Jemaine well you just need more and more volume So the reality is like brands need so much volume of content
very quickly Should we just we use one spoon for each Fiverr we get all of their flavours and then we will pick one of the spoons yes
all right. When did you think that throws
Did you do that last night
thinking about it when you were answering this so what were you know i'm saying is
because we got three panels
in front of all planets for right dish out the one with all mine on here
they can't see that can I have
to do this I forgot
I would have played up to that camera so much better look cool
I got guys
you're listening at home get alive
so what I'm Do we have almost been on this one. So what I was saying is and I have to and George you can go first because you can get the mic because the middle it's
not it's not a call this so now the days of Ben and Jerry's call Ben and Jerry's a whole has literally had on
various What do you mean there's no call?
So there's Ben and Jerry's call which will have some of them will have just caramel like a middle? Yeah, right in the middle or they'll be paying up bought a rod in the middle. These are spread throughout so I wouldn't assume the best bits in the middle. Okay.
Yeah, geez, I got a good
one. Interesting. That one interesting theory that
Now what is out yourself to whichever one The great thing about Ben and Jerry's is they're actually very socially conscious. Did you notice a deed
you guys gonna then take this and send it to them and send it to them?
We should we've been having real issues about trying to get free stuff lately.
Well, I think there's probably a big enough.
Yeah, we're hoping with people like you we just like leverage. I'm happy to say
a free endorsement is when you love bread. This is the point of trying to be honest. We need to love a brand. You want to tell people you want to talk about Red Rock deli chips. My God.
Ben and Jerry's. Sounds good. Okay, Rona, Red Rock deli chips. A the Nando's or j wha G.
which I love.
Terrible. losing out of the middle of this one.
Triple caramel. What are your favourite brands of all time?
Favourite brands of all time? Ah,
not food related or just brand? Just
that's all your apple. I mean, I've become a bit disenfranchised with Apple. Because that friggin stupid. What you were. Yeah, well, just if there's a few there's a few issues. I went through. Yeah.
I remember. You and I have Where? The problem with being an early adopter you deal with all the shit you an early adopter? Yeah, yeah. Hi, M is the earliest adopter. Yeah. With tech. You just double down on Tang. Yeah.
Well, you you did the VR stuff as well. Yeah. And I
Well, I bought Tommy. But once again the office
ever once again. It was awfully I bought the Apple Watch.
Because I wasn't gonna say you bought it.
It's a number one killer looking in the face. My show 350 bucks. just stare at me
till you can go get the ice cream and help yourselves as well and get some for building. I've already given
focus on building out a fortress.
You're not going to shit for a week.
I was trying to do it every single flavour. Yeah, but
You're allowed to do that. It's fan Fridays. When are we gonna do it? Have you do you think of your body image? issues?
Yeah. Have you been fat? Yeah, for Mike. Yeah, I could show you some photos. But yeah, my God, I look at bread and I get a god.
said there's a meaning in get away. You've been on TV. You're in TV for a
while. The problem is they stopped sending me to the beach. Because I used to go to the beach and black rush. Like these I like when they hide. Always.
Then can you look up on YouTube on Google? And
then I just and so they had to hire people that wouldn't wear big black rashes. But that were white one. Don't ever do that.
What have you done? What's the most extreme thing that you've done? In regards to trying to stay slim or lose weight or that you went on
getaway that would have opened up a whole tonne of great storeys. instead? I'm talking dashing
while eating Ben and Jerry's. Oh, this isn't Josh to
be Amanda hiding. darting I thought it was on the
travellers Why? I mean, cuz i thought was interesting. I was listening to him. Gandhi's got a podcast and he had small z on, he was talking about all of his
names. But they get him out. Right? Yeah. He said Graham. Is it? What is it going? smoothly? Oh, we Yeah, Big D, big z.
Did you have a name outside of jewels? No.
But they always just just, Oh, God. But
anyway, anyway, suppose he was talking about his. he reckons that people who are behind a microphone, or people who are on camera, that sort of thing. Basically, most of them are doing it based on some form of insecurity, which normally comes out in something in regards to whether it's white or food or
you just know having to be more conscious, because it's a part of your job, right?
No, I think what he's saying is, I wasn't listening, you get into the industry, because you want you want validation or attention.
And that's the thing that
Why can't you just be an entertainer? Why? Why does the medium change? Like he is ago, you could be a theatre goer or something? An actor? Why Why? Why kind of actually just be the art as opposed to the audience changes that I think the dirty nature of fame will. I mean, it may Italy always been an attention day. But I also do enjoy getting reactions out of people. And then if but I did, then as a young person, I want fame and fortune, dirty and filthy. Like I just want more attention at a greater scale.
I think these initial goals as much as your hands on their bit negative like, Eric, isn't there. Okay, for the meantime, to get you to that next step. It's when people get caught up in the ship?
And they don't know. They don't recalibrate. Yeah, because what you learn very quickly, when you do is you go, Oh, this is really annoying. By my side, and the money.
The fame bit, what was the what's the most outrageous thing that you've had to deal with based on or you just get your phone you? So
automatically, you need especially straight you need to be taken down a couple of pigs. And so and honestly, at pubs and stuff, often it's females. Right, buddy, guys? Yeah. And I would just, though just that would imagine walking up to somebody or you think you're so good. And I and it's my job to tell you you're not spread. But if you don't think you're so good. They're not taking you down a couple of pigs. They just actually made me feel horrible. Yeah. And so it's a bullying. So
what's interesting, what you did the medium Iran was TV, short, sharp pieces, where they're not getting. It's not like a podcast where they
personality. It's just a
present, which imagine how hard it is then being an actor. You don't even know who the person is.
from them. Yeah. Who the hell is Tom Cruise?
Well, yeah, because Kelly until he became him and got on Oprah's couch, and then he got sick. So you're absolutely right. But a lot of people shouldn't shouldn't be met. I remember what a lot of people in the entertainment industry are odd should just be. They should just, you should only experienced them through that one.
You had a good portion of time. Wherever you were hosting the red carpet allow us to get the call back this
year just happened last weekend. We there. You
know what, I'm curious because I haven't read any of the articles. But I saw the headlines which were something along the lines of the low yeas need to end now.
It was as I did what I didn't know it was on. But the next morning I saw and then I watch Tom Gleason's. It was Grady's speech. And it was and I set it off right now. Just it was just wasn't it fascinating, in our lifetime, to say something? just lose it shine. It was it's actually it feels Yeah, London, and how he talked about on stage and he's not lying. His view of it is pretty accurate to what it
is that truth. Like, what makes it funny is the level of truth. You
summarise what he said, because I didn't literally
he sort of said this whole thing's dumb. I won the award. And I was saying that it was dumb. Isn't this all a big joke, but
it's more than that. The bottom line is, when TV was such an was the main media in this country that it held so much power, because all the money was there, which means you bought all the all the Bibles were there than the money comes. And then you got to get the talent. And so the calibre of talent got better and better
with the money just quickly, I remember hearing a quote that was TV, TV, radio, you buy the house TV, you're buying the pole. Is that right? Like? My name, right? Do you do TV?
You do. But there's few, I suppose there was probably less people. In radio, you remember, there's only so much real estate, you know, whereas on TV, it could be a show like, Hey, hi. And there's 15 or 20 people that are getting that there's no radio show 15 or 20 people so, so the real estate collectively, yeah, so those people that are smaller, and also, that's through a lens of talent, which you got to imagine that TV and radio, say an hour commands the same amount of advertising dollars, right. And so because you've got you're reaching the same amount of people on radio, or on TV, the production costs, think about the price that it costs from lighting grips camera, you know, if you ever went into a TV studio, or researchers, one hour is so big. Now the talent is only one of 50 ride, Verizon radio, you literally have some microphones and it all comes down to one or two voices or three voices, and then a couple of people helping on funds and some people on the desk, but the production price. So it means if if those two individuals, the talent can hold all of that advertising dollar, they should get it on.
I'm sorry, I'm eating ice cream.
It's just the fact that drip someone your crotch?
Well, one thing I've noticed too, is radio. It seems like they're they're getting more producers. I noticed this with like, Jason PJ or Collin Collin jack, it feels like they've all always had a sort of ensemble cast or producers. Why do you think that is? Oh, do you think there are just a few breakfast shows, I think
possibly the talent know that there's only very few of them. They're not, they're not developing too many more. I mean, there's talent sort of coming through. Right. And but they're not, there's not this huge influx, like you think of all the talent that is rising up in other mediums, right? Not in television mind you been in others, it's just huge. Whereas in radio, it's a very specific skill set. And what happening is the old, the old God isn't being replaced by the new God, the old God is just going around to another, I should be on it is just like, musical chairs, right. So that's how it's so non competitive that those talent have like, I could go back to radio, and I would love to go back to radio. But if it was any other place, I'd be irrelevant. And they would have moved on 10 times over. But for some reason radio, it doesn't seem to be surfacing. or investing in those. And so what happens is brand, executives either go into go, let's do a really big name, and I bring that brand name in there. Or they go, let's go with an absolute nobody at the other end. And so they sort of can't win and looking at to dive in breakfast, which I worked on, you know, and they've had like five or six since Colin, jack Lyft. They've tried it all. They started with some big names like Mel Bay was in our show, you know, what does that look like? You know, like, now we're going to go down as the other end. And then we're like, you know what, it's going to take us five or 10 years in order for people to actually know who Dan and meds are, you know, in billboards, like to really give them a 360 personality. So they moved up and they went back to a big night, which was rove. And so they're trawling, all all of those things.
And so what you were saying before, when I before I interrupted, the Loki stuff, Tom Gleason.
So like Well, ladies say that the interesting thing about the logo is or what the sad reality is that it had so much power. But then because it's it just doesn't hold the crown anymore. And so what happens is, when you had the cream of the crop, nominated for the logo, the gold lagi was really competitive, it was really big. It was an amazing honour. Now, if you look at the gold login nominees, you know, you don't even realise I did, there was a few I didn't recognise and you would think that even may who doesn't watch a lot of TV, you would still know who they are. Right? And there were people within there that doesn't and then, you know, and I think it was probably call, but home is probably the last one that I thought, you know, and then it's sort of now it's just and not to say these people deserve
it. Is it because the media is fragmented, though
I mentioned? Yeah. And it doesn't mean that the grants and and only colleges and Tumblr licence don't deserve it. It's just that they themselves would agree that what it what you imagined it to be years ago was this, like, dominant force on TV, and it was an enormous amounts of success. But now you just can be a performer that's done some great stuff. And that is a popular, and then you get the gold logo. And so what his comment was, which everyone sort of feels, is it real and you go into the station's like, it's, you know, it's it's a different industry, they going through their own challenges.
So you notice the main because you've got the, you know, yeah, perspective of saying it before and after those shifts? Yeah. What does it actually, what does that what does that look like? Is that less less people involved? less people in cubicle?
I mean, the sad reality is just less viewers not so. You know, like, hymes show the master? Yeah. So, you know, like, we get away days, we were writing, you know, one point fives, you know, and now if you were to get a 1.5, huge, it's just monstrous. So it's just, there's less people watching. Yeah, because they're there. They've got Fox tail, and Netflix and Stan, and sister nitrogen. So which is all on demand most? Yeah. And what they've got to do is that, that it becomes Bell ended, right? So you either do lots of sheep, lots of content, you know, reality map stuff, or you go spend really big, and you go hot on event TV, which is the ninja warriors, etc. And the voice. And so that's been, which
has become huge.
Yeah. And that's been happening over the last five or 10 years slowly. But the stuff in the middle is the stuff that can struggle a little bit.
What Why? Because everything you described, there was an unscripted content. Australia, like,
it's expensive, dude on Stan, I got some big budgets, but you know, you're not getting the return. on our end. Look, I'm not the expert, to be honest.
sense it though, like in regards to what was the last time you were at the longest? Maybe 2013? Or when was last time you were here? Okay.
Currently, when I've been to 10 years, and I finished in like,
the last one I did was Did you sense it, though, that, that what Tom Gleason spoke about the other night? Was that something that was within the whispers nothing about it?
No, everyone's been cynical. No, I, to be honest, I didn't feel it then. And these things, like I said, semi was text. I said these things move fast. And radio. That's why right, he has to be really careful. Because they see it coming, I reckon, and they are disrupting themselves. And so it takes some real powerful innovators. So things like podcast one with I start to have, as you say, on demand. But I think I think variety of has to say, but when I moved out from TV and radio to do social or tech, it was absurd. Yeah. Now when I watch Tom Gleason I go, it's critical for talent to diversify. And think about it. Now. I think radio is pretty insulated. It seems really good. And there's great work in that, you know, when I started and Tommy will attest because Tommy wanted to naturally, you know, like you wanted to be a TV presenter, and I was helping you through that. What career is there in TV present? And nothing is nothing you You did what did you do the fox eight show? Yeah. And like, you can't just go I'm going to be a TV presenter in this country as much. It's just not a water
that came through Amy's made was producing that show and needed somebody
we've even think about like,
but I think you Sorry, just to interrupt us. You saw the writing on the wall for that. Because your suggestion to me you're in there, you're making money doing it. You're at the top of that guy. And you're saying don't watch got the camera, dude, yeah, pick up the camera. If I didn't pick up the camera, I wouldn't be here.
Like, think about when that started happening when the writing was sort of on the wall? And then how long like it does. It takes time and behind or something,
you know, the other thing? So there was not only that, which is I said, You can't just be on camera. You've got to be the they call it the predator? Producer editor. Yeah,
yeah, I took it
literally. So sorry about that Anyway, once you got out of job. So that which was diversify skills, because you got to be sort of everything, right? Because I saw that that was the value in YouTube, these people, right, anyone can present now, like, that's what it did. As soon as you could talk to a camera and uploaded, everyone's a TV presenter, and all white Latina, everyone was a better TV presenter, because they didn't have all the sheet in a way that actual real TV presenter had, which was the nerves and the camera and everyone controlling your voice and what you should say, and these guys were just opening it up and expressing authentically, I'd watch these guys and just go you already that whoever that was any you Tommy, you better presenter, more natural presenter than the professionals. So as soon as I saw that, I went right, you're going to have to, there's no such thing as a presenter, you're going to actually be a content Teller, a storyteller. But then the next piece was when you were working in radio. So you know, and you as well, we were creating content for brands for the network to sell. Right? Yeah. And so you guys came very skilled? And what would Tommy kept saying, right, I'm going to go back to this radio station, I'm going to try to, you know, work for that radio station. And through branded content, I just said, Why do you need a radio network, go direct to brands, the brands, for the first time take you seriously, just do your content for the brand. Don't leave it up to these awkward traditional thing in the Santa and just create what you would do. You don't need all the rest. And and you started to do that. And and now you you guys have gotten together.
The interesting thing is understanding how like where the money ends up going. That's what I'm curious about is like so we've seen what's happened with the low years, we're seeing what public perception is of all that sort of stuff.
How fucking Google Yeah, Facebook, and Google
has to go somewhere. So it's got
going within those platforms? Where do where does it sit for the actual content creators? I people like us?
Well, it's good news for the content creators. It's just bad news, I reckon for the tonnes of publishers. So the publishers, their power was at the head eyeballs. And so the publishers being it could be everyone from the networks like media company. So Channel Nine and channel 10, or the age, our media, new idea. These are all publishers, even the pedestrians Rob, what they sell, is their audience. They collect a community of audience and
how do you think that's different to what we do? I think I know the answer. But I'm curious to see your lens on what makes us different to publishers.
Brian phrase, I'm thinking you're creating branded like, You're, you're answering briefs for the brand's audio? Isn't that the a lot of the video content? Well,
yeah, I mean, that's the thing. So from a from a client point of view, like creating content for clients that don't have us in it, that's where it's at right now. And so the transition we're trying to discover is, over the next 10 years, how does it translate to if if we think about a radio show, and how many, how much it costs to run that thing, how much the radio licence costs, how many people are in sales and all that sort of stuff? If we're just a small agile team of five of us, surely, if we produce awesome content will be able to have enough eyeballs and enough of an audience something that
they they just the 10 years ago, you couldn't have got those eyeballs. I think that I licence it cost you a million dollars. Now you can get those eyeballs and the brand's just that's what influencer marketing is,
you know, I wouldn't the brands are go to, why aren't we in the same predicament that the publishers are in, in regards to brands, m&ms, just going to Facebook, and targeting our you know, our audience anyway, not through us, but through
engagement, right, and what you guys are perfecting is how to engage audience. So that engagement, that's the point of influencers, because, you know, and and content creators. The that's the whole point. It's like, you guys talking and offering value is more value than an ad. So that's that's the point. And so that that's the point of the influence of thing, if a influencer says how good's Ben and Jerry's, it carries a lot more weight than Ben and Jerry's saying how good away but away lose the cloud in that. So this the reason why this is so authentic, is because we paid for it. And it's not part of a brand integration, which is to your point with the tribe stuff, the stuff you buy, you can talk about that how do we how do we do that in a in an authentic way? Okay, well, you, you are human, and so you endorse 1000 brands is consumers. So just generally you already so you, you should collaborate with brands, you genuinely would be saying anyway,
and should I be giving us care? Because I guess where we're at at the moment is we've got some awesome brands, like see Seagate and cuna sending a ship, which is amazing, right? They're supporting us at the early stage where there's still like a long way for us to go. They give us stuff and we highlight why their product is great, and how we're using it. How do we then get to a point where we can say, hey, actually, this is worth some cash now.
So when you're offering more value than their products?
And when do you know that? I think it's the
only audience number? That's what I'm curious about is are we talking,
you have to believe that you can move the needle for them worth more than the product cost of their product? Yeah. So where they go, I'm giving them this. But if they take it away, right, I'm willing to pay because that audience, it's just adding value
is the shift on for what you do, the ROI is probably very important. But this is the mentality of ROI for brands shifting, based on Okay, sure, we can do something with you guys and see a number spike. But there's also a bunch of other stuff then buying into the brand that we're creating and the people we have on the show. Like I think that's where the value is rising for Team small team, half of
the battle is you proving your value?
You know, that's what we have to do. I think that that like that is it and that's
the sad reality podcast. Not this, but I'm just saying generally in the last few years of podcast, you think of how valuable like when someone's loving a podcast and listening to that for an hour. Yeah, the problem was no one was knowing if anyone was listening to it, though, just measuring it based on what was downloading, you know, subscription number, and which, you know, everyone goes into their Apple podcasts, and it's auto subscribing and auto downloading tonnes you are listening to Yeah. And so that was just that grey area, where it just would it and it's it's getting better now with IP and all that sort of thing.
Yeah, I'm adding stuff so that it's, and that's cleaner. And that's what we like, like there was, it's funny, a lot of the podcast hosts were giving out these inflated numbers on the download on downloads, and then became IRB compliant, and semi podcasters. But piece because like, Where did all their numbers go? Where is it? We were welcoming it because we're like, now we know. Now we know where we actually stand. Now we actually have strong data that we can say this is how many people you're listening. And so
so we have the same problem with influencer marketing is podcasting, which is half the battle is proving the ROI. And so technology and those bigger platforms, enabling you and and giving access to all those rich insights can turn on entire categories, because as soon as marketers go, there's a value there. And I feel comfortable about that. I just triple down. And so we're waiting for that. And it's coming with influencer marketing, as well as talking about, which is where Instagram is enabling a paid partnerships tag, which is every influencer that posts. So Ben and Jerry's, not only do they just ride hashtag ad will I don't need to anymore, they will actually just tag as a branded collaboration with at Ben and Jerry's. And then under their profile, it was a paid partnership. Now the benefit of that is not only disclosure, which is within Instagram, where they an Instagram. But once you tagged Ben and Jerry's, now Ben and Jerry's gets all of the rich insights from that post. And so go into their Facebook Ads Manager. And so they'll have 100 posts from site tribe influences. And now they can say see which ones are performing and they can finally for the first time ever see who have the rage males, females? What are the impressions, not just the vanity, metrics, likes and comments, but then they can benchmark it against their other branded social campaigns. So it's the first time soon where you'll be able to, and it might be scary, because we won't say marketing doesn't work?
Well, I think the thing is, it's amazing where cross posting like Facebook cross posting where you could do that it's allowing giving them access into the insights, which I think is a good thing because it means that we can, you can no longer rely on. So there's, there's people who are who are buying followers and then using that followers to do things like to be able to go on expensive trips and shit like
that. But here's here's the other, the best bit you can say are those hundred posts, the 10 that performed the best like the the piece of content that people that clip. And then what you can do is you can boost that or turn that into an ad. So if you turn that into an ad, right now, all of a sudden organic influencer marketing, you couldn't click through like Lincoln bio swipe ups. But now it says by now learn more. This is still living on their page. Yeah instal ad. So that's powerful. And then the next beauties they've just released when you tag products, so they let the creator tag a product, which is revolutionary in itself, like tag, Ben and Jerry's, you're holding it right. But then they've got Instagram Checkout, which means that you can press on that and purchase it because you've got your shipping address and your credit card details. And even your sizes, you can press it a couple of buttons without leaving Instagram, it's on its way to your house. Now that is got to be the reason why system, the founders, Kevin and Mark have left because that this now is not photo sharing community which it still is
it's a commerce
is over a bit there would be what I reckon they're going to say 1.2 billion 1.3 billion people at daily active users. And they're about to just this thing is going to turn into the biggest a con thing you've ever seen. So now, you know, you're actually getting influence opposed to getting sales within the app. So now, value is proven. So podcasting once again, is you that's the challenge within these we're going to find that
you've done a lot of Ambassador deals and things and endorsements and stuff like that over the years. How does this play into that? Because I guess you have this situation where it's, I post a piece of content about a brand. And I expect it within my realm within my community. As you know, contracts are pretty specific. It's like you can have access to digital but you don't get print you don't get it and all that sort of thing. Are we gonna have to read evaluate that whole thing? Or will these services actually playing with that? So it's opt in?
Yeah, the when you tag a brand, Ben and Jerry's, you have another toggle that says allow them to boost it? Don't? Yeah, so you control whether it gets it gets amplified or not. And so if they want you to change that toggle, give you an extra thousand bucks for the content rights to turn it into advertising.
Yeah, that's really important. I think. If you were to strip it back for people that aren't, that don't have an audience yet, right?
Because that's the message, though. The point is, this is affiliate link. So forever. Affiliate Marketing is literally just a blogger, that would get a specific URL. So web link that was only so it'd be like Ben and Jerry's forward slash Tommy jacket. And then you would post how you should buy Ben and Jerry's and you put it on your website, or you put it in Twitter. If If people buy it because of that link, you get a percentage of the profits.
So they just do that at scale across thousands.
In America affiliate marketing category is monstrous. It's not influencer marketing. And it's based not on celebrities and stuff. It's just based on everyday people. It's like Avon lady. It's like Tupperware parties. It's
eating That's dangerous. Do you think back to the average person, completely underestimate what this means? Do you think
we, it is not? There's nothing? If you type? I don't think it's a question of authenticity. Once again, everyone's going to go the path of least resistance and waggon of
its commodities. It's definitely saying like it's playing around, where it is going to, by default, lower the worth of all of these things based on when the worst for the Creator. Yeah, well, if you think about it, when kept when cameras became affordable,
it isn't that great. Everything gets cheaper.
Why think it's no, because, as creators, how do we like it? I guess there is that's going to almost sort of change in regards to what we're worth
the distinction between people who identify as creators, right?
I think everyone should be a creator, and when and so based on that the idea of everyone being a creator, just like if everyone was an artist, artistry or the art form is worth less if everyone if it's
TV presenters, YouTubers, and it was at scale podcasters I adults, it takes out film, but the good ones? Yes. Stay brilliant.
And then some of the I guess the question is a good ones main is the differentiating factor that the good ones in mainstream that is it that, like, I guess that's what TV was playing into. The good ones are the ones for the same
amount of pain. I just think the good ones rise to the top. You know, it was like podcasts, you know, like, good ones. Yeah, if you're engaging, it travels. And that's how it always should have been. You know, and that's how I suppose TV started and radio started. You know, people had opportunities. And and they they rise. I like a level playing field for that reason.
Do you think that you would ever have a YouTube channel that you would be updating regularly? I wouldn't, but I know that I wouldn't have a hope in hell.
What about your business insight, but I would imagine
No, but I wouldn't have if I give an example. TV there was just like, I was able to achieve a job in TV because I worked harder. And I made myself marketable. Right. But if it was a YouTube, if I was in a YouTube world, unless I hit the right timing early on, I wouldn't have cut through right, I wouldn't had success there. Hey, Miss Blake, on the other hand, is the guys that rise to the top. So it didn't matter where he would have gone if he was in YouTube just that week, right? That's what I mean. And so
it's an interesting thing seeing you come from TV and radio and like, that's where your audience's lives, right. And then you come you chose, of course, yeah. But I'm saying, you see the difference, because you haven't been someone who's been dedicated to your own personal social media, in terms of now hydrant like you did through the radio stations, and you dedicated yourself to it. But it's interesting seeing the hardware, the
hard work, you do cutthroat.
Also, the other thing too, is this, I don't think you can underestimate the strategic mind that you have. And so that's it like a Haim is extremely witty and talented. But there's also the other part of it, which is the YouTube game is just that, yeah, you got to be able to know what my title is going to be. And you can't just have
it, sir. I think you'd probably Yeah, you'd shine in that way. You want to start a YouTube? Yeah, I thought we did. Where? Where do you think it's it's going for, for creators that are coming into the scene now? They're fresh. They're just picking up the cameras. So it's
so easy to I still think even though there's volume, it's so easy to?
Is it easy to be rich
into it? Do you think I think it's so easy to be more creative at create other people still, like I look at influencer marketing, it's really pretty similar stuff like this, you know, they some real superstars have to stop motion, you did some stop motion for tribe, Tommy, you know, there's a really clever artistry. And I just think it's just a it's absolute opportunity for someone to make an enormous amount of money with no followers still, because what we're doing is we're opening up those content, like literally now opening up those content campaigns that anyone for certain ones, I'll we will vet them. But we will pull together clusters of everyday people that are just great at creating content. And we want to give them opportunities to make short form video, or photography content for brands.
And I think, Josh, I think it's like with the space where you play in. He's not there. But I want
the kid every and the kid, Kelly's fallen asleep, sorry, we led Cisco. So we're not the experiences work?
we, what does the marketplace playing to our strengths? renders on our work? You know, like the idea. And so
I think you look at if you were to put it in a famous artist, them doing no name paintings at Sky, at least not the model. That's what they driving for you guys have within tribe? Is that what you were talking about? Is there the ability to if we are a unique creator that has something unique?
Honestly, if I open up these campaigns, you guys,
so when you don't win What? So when you talk about that that's referring to show the long term stuff, and then there's more bespoke stuff?
Yes. So for instance, what's an example? So there's a lot of brands that use the just to content campaigns with us. The idea is that the influencer creates content but they never publish it. Right? It's just for the brand's channels. Right? But why if the influencer is in publishing to their audience, why do they need an audience? And so my belief is the best people for that are people with no followers that take good photos, right? Because they don't have an option on the influencer marketing side. And so they're appreciative of the non divas, and they'll be able to do incredible work. And there's no reason followers are not provided that you can prove to us that you've got, you know, some really good skills. Now, you can imagine with all your kid, you'd be able to do incredible stuff. And like, Tom,
would they consider because I guess we can do that. But what we're trying to work out is, how do we get them to care about them daily talk show, how do we show that there's actual brand equity in there. So rather than just two guys, you know, wear a tie?
Well, they just bind, they won't care about that. Yeah. And when I say it's got a, it's got to fit to their brief. So they're not going to say, Hey, we want you to celebrating Ben and Jerry's on your talk show. It's going to be can you have a shot of Ben and Jerry's and throw it in the air and slow mo? To turn in? Or a boomerang? Yeah, with Ben and Jerry's that we can use and
it's product. First content?
It's branded con. Yeah. That's the difference of marketplace pitches.
I think it's great. Because we know what mission we're here on. Yeah. And it's more of that, which is just a different business model.
That's a completely different business model. But yeah, I say that because you should be trying to do lots of little thing. Yeah,
know, I agree, I think
It is, you know, you're in a good household when there's Ben and Jerry's in the fridge. Want to say thank you, because that's,
you know, that's 60 bucks worth of Oscar. Yeah.
Really? You can really can have it. Josie thanks for coming in. No worries. Yeah, I enjoy it. If you've if you've listened this far, please take a screen grab to even a video or something that you can put on the storeys, I got George land. Yeah, tag the daily talk show. So we know that you've, you've been watching and listening,
I think, on that day villas video about his channel and how he's monetizing. It was amazing yesterday, because it's, there is an asset to your audience that is support that's not monetary, right, like So Matt developer is made of ours that directed the film, minimalism is all about the last time you
watch your watch. And so he
just channels blind 1.4 million YouTube followers and like going from 200,000 last year to that. But he he was monetizing his channel through Patreon, which was no ads would come up and easy. But it's like, how do you how do you do that? There's an element of it, where we were it's if if people are and i and i resonated with this, because I'm a consumer of lots of people's content. And that is supporting someone right consuming. Reaching out, sending a tweets, just interacting is so powerful. It's like they
do what they what is it? What is I guess the thing is, what is that currency? What is that trying to do? And at the end of the day, that engagement, if we actually think about it, so then we can then show a brand, and then we can get some money out. Like there's got to be a point where that, like comments, don't pay bills, you know, likes don't pay bills, followers don't pay bills. So it's like, it's even through that, that it all ends up coming through some you know what, so
I did went to Facebook. Last week, for the Mac know, they're launching Facebook for creators, which is, you know, creators in this country that do a lot of stuff on YouTube, and probably do it on Instagram or Facebook. But what they will try to do is longer form content that they can put on watch Facebook, watch interesting, and then they monetize that. And so, but there's three different ways you can do that. One is for these creators to create three minute plus long form content, and then they say, put ads in this, and basically a pre roll and mid roll and sort of and you get a I think you get 55% of the revenue of that advertising. The second one is branded collaborations which I said to you earlier, which is the pied partnerships tag. So you create some video stuff of Ben and Jerry's, you tag them, right, so you can monetize it that way. The third one is fans donations, which I don't think in Australia, I don't think there's anyone in Australia that a fan loves enough that I would pay the money in for exclusive content to be Bajaj, you know, I daily talk show gronk, you know, your gronk and you get a badge on your avatar. So all your comments on the gronk page, go up to the top and, and I just I feel uncomfortable about I don't think fans should ever be giving anyone money like that. What are your thoughts? And do you think?
The Patreon thing and I, the fact that that business model works still surprises me
to I mean, even for me who I love the subscription, I love a subscription by dumb shit all the time. And I've I've had to do it as a thing of I'm going to try this to support this business model. But the actual, it doesn't make a lot of sense. I can't imagine because it's so easy to do the math and say, Okay, if we just have 1000 listeners a day giving us $1 You know, we've got
Yeah, I just think it's just done.
So that's it's very hot. And so that's
Australia, I get it. Here you can,
but what about Bitcoin? What if it was
sort of like, co labour?
Yeah, one of those is Facebook's new. What am I thinking of? What's the not? Not crypto? What's the thing that's about blockchain? Right, like blockchain should you would think enable, rather than it being something that's obvious that the consumers doing it's happening based on their consumption naturally?
Yeah. I'm just looking at my PO child.
It's time to go I believe. We did. We did. We did wrap it up anyway about five minutes ago to daily talk show Hi, the daily talk show.com if you want to send us an email, please do do the videos that Instagram or sort of storeys, all that sort of stuff. Otherwise, have a great weekend. first weekend banter we go. We've gone seven days a week now. So tomorrow, see you tomorrow, you can
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No wonder I haven't seen you for last 12
years you've been overseas. And also check out the daily talk show calm because over the weekend, new stuffs coming. We'll see you on Monday, guys. I know. We'll see you tomorrow. That's right. So yeah,
thanks de shelving