Hug, Kiss, Handshake

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show. It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 353.

Josh: The shop is open. What is happening?

Tommy: Uh, it is, uh, what time is it? It's 5 minutes to, uh, 10. I'm still getting used to my analogue clock.

Josh: Yeah, I'm, um, I'm feeling the pump because I'm going to be on, uh, Scooter Derek's podcast.

Tommy: Oh, that's true.

Josh: He would— I know he does it every time I say Scooter Derek. I know he doesn't like it.

Tommy: That's okay, it's not his choice.

Unknown: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah, well, he doesn't. I think that a little bit of pushback from someone's nickname is fine.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you who doesn't give pushback to the nickname—

Tommy: Big T. Big T loves his nickname.

Josh: Big T, you're just owning it, mate.

Tommy: I'm waiting for Big T to change his Instagram handle to Big T. That's when we know it's full cut-through.

Josh: Well, we've got 3D Dill, who before he moved to Australia had 3D Dill, the daily talk show. Yeah, we really appreciate that.

Tommy: Did you ever think about putting it as your Instagram handle?

Unknown: I would, but then I would lose all the other pictures that I was tagged in as my old username.

Josh: Good point.

Unknown: So that's, that's why I haven't changed it yet.

Tommy: Oh, that's a good consideration. Yeah, I mean, is it more likely to happen than you getting a The Daily Talk Show tattoo?

Unknown: Yeah, for sure.

Tommy: Yeah. Is 3D Deal even available on Instagram?

Josh: He, um, probably, uh, 3D Deal got some, um, got a message from his mate over in Canada.

Unknown: So I got a message from one of my friends Hayley that said, Dylan, please don't get a Daily Talk Show tattoo, with the crying laughing emoji face and a heart emoji. She said get a kangaroo or a palm tree or a little sun or something.

Tommy: No, they're fucking— they're terrible ideas. Do we agree they're terrible ideas?

Josh: One, you just flat out look like a tryhard. The other, they don't know what it means. Yeah, TDS, The Daily Talk Show. I don't know, it could be a homage to your grandfather or something. I don't know.

Tommy: Uh, send us an email, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. Do you have a hashtag as a tattoo, or do you know anyone that has a hashtag?

Josh: Like just the hash?

Tommy: No, like a hashtag, and then it's actually written something. Okay, are we gonna look back and think that hashtags were something that we used to do, but it's not really.

Josh: Oh, they were so irrelevant before Twitter. Was that the first case for them, hashtags, or Instagram?

Tommy: Yeah, I reckon Twitter. I reckon Twitter made them.

Josh: They pioneered it, I think.

Mason: Um, well, Bernard wrote in and he, um, he reckons that Dyl should get an Aussie tribal tattoo.

Josh: What is that?

Unknown: Yeah, I've seen something.

Josh: What is that, a beer can?

Tommy: I would consider that.

Josh: What is Aussie tribal?

Tommy: But it's just tribal. Maybe it's Aboriginal or whatever, which is a lot of cultural misappropriation or whatever.

Josh: Isn't that then— I mean, Australia is the country. I don't know if it's— maybe it's just because he's from overseas, so maybe that's what he's meaning. Okay, okay, I get you.

Unknown: It's like, it's a style, it's a style of tattoo.

Josh: Or he thinks that people that just got tribal tattoos were mostly bogan Australians.

Tommy: Yeah, well, we don't really have— the interesting thing is like in New Zealand there's like a big sort of tribal Māori. Yeah. And so would it be— is it frowned upon? I mean, Mr. 97, you moved from New Zealand to Australia when you were what, 7 or something? Yeah, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, basically 7. Um, like, I wonder, is it, um, there's something a little bit naff, just a little bit of someone getting a Japanese written tattoo if you're— if you don't speak Japanese or if you can't understand.

Josh: I mean, that was big. So we're talking about, um, the types of tattoos. So there's been the Japanese stamp at the bottom of the back, then you've got the tribal tattoos, which are— I don't know where they come from. Some of the wrestlers had them back in the day.

Tommy: But yeah, you're right, like, as it goes on, but there is a, there is a thing where it's, it's not, um, it's only bogan if you don't know the cultural— like, it feels like if you're going to get something, you need to understand it. It's a little bit like me wearing a New York Yankees hat No, I think you're talking about cultural appropriation, um, as opposed to just being— What is that word? Cultural—

Josh: No, I fucked it up and said cultural inappropriation last time.

Tommy: And then you just said appropriation. Yeah, you didn't do that bit. I'm curious, what does it actually mean?

Josh: Cultural appropriation.

Tommy: Yeah, that's what you said.

Josh: Yeah, I said the A bit. Cultural appropriation. I'm just a bogan Australian that says drops like—

Tommy: I don't know either. I'm not saying that I know that.

Josh: So what you're saying, like, so for instance, there's like, uh, Mexican tattoos. So the Day of the Dead, I think it's called. Yeah, where there's—

Mason: yeah, so it's like, is that the big festival?

Josh: The festival? Yeah, Mexico.

Tommy: Okay, so here you go. Cultural appropriation. Not cultural appropriation.

Josh: Cultural appropriation. I, I'm a bogan Australian. That's— that—

Tommy: would you have spelled it with an A though?

Josh: Of course I fucking would have. What, what, how else do you spell it? Cultural and then procreation.

Tommy: I think you would have spelled it K-U-L-T-U-R-P-R-O One word. Yeah, that's what—

Josh: one word.

Tommy: Cultural appropriation. Anyway, cultural— the thing is, I am like, I'm— I don't know what it means, so we're learning. Cultural— this is where we need Ruth McGowan because she would be fucking schooling us on cultural appropriation. But here it is: the unacknowledged or inappropriate adoption of the customs, practices, ideas, etc. of one people or society by members of another and typically more dominant people or society.

Josh: Yeah, so it's like saying the privileged, uh, using the beautiful Indian headwear of the Native Americans—

Tommy: this is probably not a good area.

Josh: No, but hang on, you haven't fucking let me finish. Using it as some kind of a, you know, outfit for a fancy dress party. And so it's some taking something from a culture, like it's, it's It's going so far as to you can't dress up as a Mexican anymore. Like, you can't wear a sombrero anymore.

Tommy: You can wear— I think you can wear a sombrero.

Josh: No, then you're fucking way off because you haven't looked online and seen the Mexican cantina that they've—

Tommy: you get a sombrero when you wear—

Josh: you can't wear a Bruce Lee outfit from when he used to, you know, in his films where he's doing the one-inch punch, and it's like he's got this— it's like a yellow.

Tommy: But where are you getting this when you say you can't?

Josh: You can't, as in look online, there's a lot of noise being made by people who are, you know, getting very upset about this stuff. But I don't know exactly where it's coming from. If someone from that culture said directly to me that's offensive—

Tommy: It says an unacknowledged or inappropriate adoption. Like, yeah, I guess there is the— we can interpret things how we want to. I think there's a scale. I think that the idea of you can't do anything anymore and you can't do this and you can't do that. Like, I think there is— can you dress up as, uh, the Village People? I don't know.

Josh: I mean, that was, that was my costume when I was a stripper.

Tommy: Yeah, well, I don't know.

Josh: I don't think you could anymore. I don't think it would be seen as acceptable in most, most of culture right now.

Tommy: What do you think, 3D Dill?

Unknown: Uh, it's, it's tough just because if you're doing it in a respectful way, like, there was always taking my clothes off while wearing— yeah, that, that maybe not. But like, there was a big thing at Coachella a few years ago where some girl had on like a Native American headdress. Yeah, with the, the tribal flowers and everything. And it caused a whole bunch of backlash from that community saying It's like our culture and our religion is not your Coachella outfit. Yeah, kind of a thing.

Tommy: Well, I think that's my point with the tribal thing. I think anything that is— if you're doing anything tribal in the context that we're in, yeah, it's probably not appropriate.

Josh: Yeah, but then that's my point to the Mexican, um, the Day of the Dead.

Tommy: A lot of people have sombrero.

Josh: Uh, no, not that. The Day of the Dead. I'll show you. Do you know what it is?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: They have the face, so it's like the woman's face and it's like, yeah, there's like a stitching on one of the eyes. It looks fucking cool. It's amazing. Like, and so there's been— I know a bunch of guys have got those tattoos. And so at what point does it become like—

Tommy: that's why the Daily Talk Show tattoo is so safe. I think we're pretty open for— I'm happy for misappropriation of the Daily Talk Show.

Josh: I don't think it'll go there. It will, it will never, it will never get that far. Yeah, if we could get viral, unless we create some huge cult out of this, and then it's just like—

Tommy: yeah, talking about the cult, if you want to get, uh, the patch, the final, uh, opportunity is tomorrow. Is that, is that right, Mr. 97?

Mason: Yes.

Tommy: Yeah, the 24th is tomorrow, Friday.

Josh: So this is your second last chance. You're selling it like it's today's the cutoff.

Tommy: Sorry. Uh, so thank you, Ruth. Thank you, Helen. For your reviews as well.

Josh: So I'll tell you where the problem lies in this country.

Tommy: Uh, here we go.

Josh: Debt. I had an experience last night speaking with the lovely people from Latitude Finance.

Tommy: So we're trying to get some Apple computers.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so what's the deal?

Josh: I mean, it's never been easier. Like, I literally filled out a form online, next minute you've got $6,000 of credit card What if you've got a pay—

Tommy: if you've got payslips and all that sort of thing?

Josh: Oh yeah, and also I put in the wrong date of birth, so I was a 90-year-old guy and they still gave— that forgot to mention that I have a car that I make repayments on.

Tommy: But they're like, did you end up fixing that or no?

Josh: Here's the ridiculous— this is what I called, right? Because I'm like, the woman from Apple called me and said, uh, yep, it's all gone through, blah blah blah, let me just confirm a few details. It's like, ah, I thought you sounded younger. I thought you didn't sound old because I had 1928 instead of 1988 as my birth year. And she's like, oh, you can change that, blah blah blah. So I called up to change it. It is quicker for me to cancel that card and reapply—

Tommy: I wouldn't do that—

Josh: then change my, uh, my date of birth. So what you have to do is send in proof via fucking physical mail or a fax machine. Who?

Tommy: I mean, a 90-year-old would be able to do it. If you were 90, it would be perfect.

Josh: No problem. But then it takes 10 days for it to apply after that. I was like, this does not make sense.

Tommy: Well, the thing is, you'll then get like, from a credit score point of view, it will count as another hit. Why? Because every single time you apply for something that requires credit, yeah, it actually affects your—

Josh: yeah, but listen, it's not a payment default. They would be happy to give me it. Yeah, this is the thing. So did you do that? No, I didn't. I just, I actually had a conversation with the fourth person because I kept on getting sent around. I was like, can you please put me onto someone of, you know, similar nature? And they said no problem. And then I get sent back to the first department that had nothing to do. It was the worst customer service until this lovely guy I spoke to. And I was like, so you're telling me I can just, uh, continue with my birthday being 1928? And he's like, yeah, just do that.

Tommy: I think that's the easier thing. I think that's it.

Josh: Like, if I'm a 90-year-old bloke who works for Apple, I've had a job for 8 months with this company and they've given me a bunch of cash. Like, I wonder if they're looking at that and going, that's a 90-year-old guy, he's done pretty soon.

Tommy: Well, you would even think—

Josh: get his money somehow.

Tommy: I feel like they— my thought was that they would use the date of birth, they would use your driver's licence and the address, and they'd make sure it all matches up. Wouldn't you have thought that was the thing, the whole thing?

Josh: Because I'm like, they're like, oh, we'll just need to confirm your identity via your driver's license. I was like, shouldn't that fucking be done before you give me the 6 grand?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: So I got the 6 grand, there's nothing about that, but it was— I just had this feeling of like, fuck, you see why there's a problem with debt in this country. You see why so many people can easily just walk out and get a fucking card.

Tommy: Yeah, in the—

Josh: crazy. Have you got a credit card yourself, Dil? 3D Dil?

Unknown: Yeah, I do.

Josh: What's the process in Canada?

Unknown: Pretty, pretty similar to here.

Josh: Is there much noise being made about the issue that the country has with giving money to anybody, or is it not the same?

Unknown: It's, it's about the same. It's a little harder to get money in Canada, like if you're— if you want to get like I haven't had to do it a whole lot, but when I was applying for college and school, I got OSAP loans, which is basically the government gives you a loan to help pay for school.

Josh: Yeah.

Unknown: And that was one of the longest processes. It was like a 3.5-hour process just on the computer, just going through, filling out a whole whack tonne of stuff. And but they were legitimate with matching your driver's license, matching any form of ID that you had. So it's—

Tommy: but that's what I thought. I'm sure there's just some sort of oversight. With this specific one, but the education debt is the interesting one because people spend— it's like, uh, Matt D'Avella talking about $90,000.

Josh: $97,000, mate.

Tommy: It was, well, $97,000, but he spent $10,000 on a car, so it was about $80-something thousand.

Josh: I thought it was more because he spent $10,000.

Mason: It was, it was like $10,000 below because he failed two subjects or something. Yeah, took them off or something like that.

Unknown: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: But I mean, D'Avella's— I mean, that's what I love about D'Avella. He shares all of the, the bits and pieces, which he can do now that he's sort of out of it and seen the the other side.

Josh: What is it, HECS debt? It's like Amy's got some HECS debt from years and years ago that's slowly being paid off, and it wasn't being paid off for ages for some reason. She had to chase it up and work it out, and it's about based around how much government payment she was getting for the baby and how much she was earning. It's complicated, but like, think about when you put your head in the sand about this shit and you're just like, whatever. I've got this. Yeah, I've ended up here. You see why Barefoot's banging on so much about this.

Tommy: Yeah, I've started waking up a different way.

Josh: What are the ways of— oh, okay, so there's— I mean, the only way is an alarm, so some kind of alarm, or naturally.

Tommy: Yeah, so what's—

Josh: what way are you waking up?

Tommy: Both.

Josh: What?

Tommy: Think about it.

Josh: There's a bit of both. There's an alarm, you turn it off, and then the sun wakes you up.

Tommy: So I have an alarm that has the sun built into it and it lights up our room, uh, for like 10 minutes before I wake up and it wakes me up before the alarm goes off.

Josh: Okay, and so what time is this? Because it's still fucking dark. What are you getting up at, 9?

Tommy: No, but that's what— the sun isn't in the fucking alarm, the sun is a light. I thought that was fairly obvious. It's at—

Josh: when I wake up at like 6:30, it's pitch black when I take Bodhi to daycare.

Tommy: It's like how lights work. You can put— that's the point of it. It's fucking dark outside, so I use an alarm clock that has a light.

Josh: What?

Tommy: Which I said was the sun.

Josh: Yeah, but did you think that he was talking about, well, the outside light?

Mason: I knew what he was talking about because I went with him to— Dylan and I went to JB Hi-Fi.

Tommy: I was trying to find them.

Mason: I've seen them before, but I just—

Josh: sorry, it sounded like you were just saying you had the window, like, the blinds up and the light came up, which woke you up a little bit, and then the alarm went off, which is exactly what you're saying, but you're using— what are you using, your phone?

Tommy: No, no, no, so it's a physical Philips Hue product that is, um, took out a loan for this one, definitely. It's $50.

Josh: Oh, that's pretty good.

Tommy: 50 bucks, really? It was cheap. But the thing is, I found out why it was cheap in some ways, because, uh, the, the way that it works is that, um, Pete Sheppard has one of these. He was telling me about it. He's like, "Oh, man, I got a cheap one. It just beeps. It doesn't like—" And so, it's an alarm or whatever. But friends who have one of these, what happens is the light brightens up over like the course of 10 minutes or whatever. And so, I woke up 2 minutes before my alarm went off, which is great. And which was 5:30. I'd set it for 5:30. I got up at 5:28. Which is amazing. Humble brag, early riser. And so the thing that was missing though was it was, as far as I was aware, it was meant to make a bird sound. It was meant to be birds. And I sold that into Bray where it's like, ah, it chirps. Anyway, so I like get it from Amazon and I set it all up. And then that turns out that was the $100 one. And so I got the $50 one, which just beeps. And so when I set it all up, I showed Bree how it all worked. I was just trying to like, I was burying the lead, didn't want to mention it. Oh, you knew at this point? Well, yeah, I knew. I was like, oh fuck, it doesn't do the— it's not the chirping. Anyway, it doesn't matter. And she's like, so I showed Bree, she's like, oh wow, the light's awesome. Can you just switch it to the bird sound though? Because I can't stand that beeping.

Josh: You're gonna have to send this back.

Tommy: I said, no, I'm not sending it back. It's from fucking Amazon US. No, it's good. The thing is my point was the idea is the light— It's really cool how it works. And so if you can't— If you're not awake by the time the light is bright then probably the beep is okay.

Josh: Yeah, I like the sound of this. I've been thinking about because our fucking alarm wakes up Bodhi. Beep-beep-beep-beep. Just our phone does that.

Tommy: Oh, the light would be perfect then. It's very good. Like a really nice warm light. The other cool feature guys which you didn't know about you can press a button and it turns the light on as a lamp.

Josh: Wow. I mean, the only feature—

Tommy: so I was reading a book and I just used that as a lamp.

Josh: The only feature it's missing is its ability to write Seth Godin's book by hand. No, that's all happening.

Tommy: I'll actually do, um, I'll do an hour today live stream.

Josh: Yesterday, that's right, Dylan, he said, oh, there's the book, I just forgot to take it home. Oh yeah, you had it on the table. I actually thought, yes, driving to work today I was like, this could possibly just be this running joke that Josh has had promised for 10 years. It's 10 years into the Daily Talk Show and he still hasn't fucking done it. It gets a bit silly. We have no relationship with Seth Godin anymore. It's too embarrassing. But I thought I'd actually probably be okay if you never did it and it was just this joke about how you made a promise and never fulfilled it.

Tommy: No, I actually want to do it.

Josh: I hope that gives you an info— I hope me succumbing to the, the thought that it's never getting done is the motivation for you to be like, well, fuck you, Tommy. Fuck you, Tommy. I don't know if that wouldn't motivate you.

Tommy: I don't know, maybe. The, um, we've got a 12:30, uh, meeting and it's with people that you are friends with, right? And it's a professional, uh, meeting and I've got anxiety of how we're greeting. Oh, it's just the— I know what you're gonna do. What, going for it? Yeah, you'll give them a kiss hello.

Josh: I always just go in for a bit of a kiss. I've been embracing the awkwardness. I had the most awkward hold with a woman the other day because I'm not kissing— I mean, most of the time, unless it's my mate Karim, I always give him a kiss on the cheek when I see him. But, um, it's usually a woman that I'm giving a peck on the cheek to, or an Italian man if he's up for it. But I just had this moment where I kind of went in and she didn't kiss me, and then it just became this hold, and I was like, how long do I get this? I think the hug is a safer bet.

Tommy: I think the thing is, especially with, say, us doing the podcast and stuff, yeah, we're dealing with faces of makeup and all that sort of thing. And so it's like, you don't want to have to worry about like— you're fine, dude, you got fucking black.

Josh: I'm the one that has to worry about, like, getting makeup on my shirt.

Tommy: No, but the thing is, like, ruining their makeup or whatever.

Josh: It'd have to be a Kardashian with a 7-centimeter thick layer of makeup to ruin someone's makeup with just a little.

Tommy: But what do you reckon? A good— like, have you guys—

Josh: not a handshake. You can't ask Mr. 97, he's got no idea. He avoided the gym this morning because he didn't want to speak to Big T.

Tommy: Wait, what's today? No, it's today's Thursday.

Josh: He told me that, nah, it's Monday, Tuesday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday they go to the gym. I said It's a great story. Like, imagine if he just was like—

Tommy: it's a good story, but he has been consistent, so it's been a long story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, what's, uh, 3D Deal? Yeah, what— how would you— how do you approach greeting people?

Unknown: Uh, depends on if I've met them before. Okay, so like when I met you guys and Bri for the first time at the airport, everyone was like going in for a hug, so I was like, all right, I'm just gonna go in for the hug.

Tommy: So easy. Airport, the thing is that that was like it's very low level. Yeah, because it's, uh, airport, high vibes, very easy. You're about to stay at my place for a week. Yeah, it's, you know, it's a, it's a warm welcome. Professional lunch meeting, handshake.

Mason: I reckon, I reckon you follow Tom. Did you go for a hug?

Josh: Just fuck them, whatever I do, bro.

Mason: Hey, because then you have to worry about like Tommy's gone in for the hug and then you've just gone for the handshake. That's my biggest concern. Just follow Tommy.

Josh: Oh, you know, I do that one. You know how I get— I mean, this is where it goes bad. I saw, I saw Andy Lee, uh, and Hamish. Yeah. And this is before Hamish was, you know, with his wife Zoe. So there's his previous girlfriend that he was with for years.

Tommy: This is a long time ago.

Josh: Yeah, it was a very long time ago. I was at Nobu, fancy restaurant in Melbourne, and I, um, had no place being there. And I come down, I see Hamish, Andy Zoe and Anna, um, and I'd known Anna and, and Haym more than I knew Andy, but I knew him and I'd never met Megan Gale, which was his girlfriend at the time.

Tommy: You said Zoe then.

Josh: Oh, sorry, did I? Sorry. Anna was Hamish's girlfriend at the time. Megan was Andy's girlfriend at the time. Megan Gale, big famous supermodel. Anyway, I reckon you could have kept names out of this story, but go on. This is, it's, it's appropriate for the storey anyway.

Tommy: So I'm waiting for the no boo bit, where the no boo bit comes in.

Josh: It was just at a fancy restaurant and they were in this booth and I was like, oh hey, went up, shook Andy Hamish's hand, gave Anna a kiss because I knew her. Yeah. And then I just fucking went in for a kiss with Megan. But I was like, and what happened? It was the probably the only time that I've ever felt like it probably wasn't okay to go in for a kiss because I hadn't— I'd never met her, you know. So I was like, but what I'm saying is I think that's an extreme example where it's like I had no business giving her a kiss on the cheek.

Tommy: So yeah, what I guess— what is the, uh, if we were to do a bit of analysis on the, the possible reward versus the negativity. So what we're trying to balance here is rapport. We all want rapport, but we also want to be respectful.

Josh: What's disrespectful about giving someone a kiss? I think, I think there is.

Tommy: What if you got—

Mason: what if you're going for a hug without a peck on the cheek?

Tommy: That's exactly what I'm thinking. Yeah. Yeah, do that.

Mason: They're not going to notice a difference, you know what I mean? Are they going to be thinking? No, they're going to be thinking about themselves.

Josh: Yeah, you know what, I'm just, I'm not giving anything, just going hi, I'm just going to stay my distance.

Tommy: What's up? I've literally worn my EasyRig to shoots arriving, which is a big contraption. It's this big sort of rig where I'm like in a full brace.

Josh: Mason, you laugh like he's lost cause, but mate, you look at yourself, you've actually got an EasyRig on. Yeah, all the time.

Tommy: I've actually got, I've actually gotten Very, I've gotten very good over the years because when I was travelling with Naysan, Naysan would always go for a hug, um, and it was definitely risky and certain. You go to Pakistan, you gotta be fucking careful.

Josh: I think what we're talking about is a varied situation requires a different level of thought, uh, work environments. So this, this relationship that we're talking about, we know them, we've known them for a while, like you, yeah, through whatever, through me, but you've known them for a while. So I think it's probably okay to give a kiss. A new corporate client where you're in at their office, handshake is the way to go. That is, it's just, there's— you wouldn't go outside of that.

Tommy: Yeah, a date, it's a hello, of course. Yeah, a kiss hello makes complete sense on a date.

Josh: If you put your hand out, fucking take that hand and slap your face.

Tommy: I was literally watching this morning the, um, On my feed there was like an ex-agent who specialised in like body language and greeting and all that sort of thing. I saw that. Yeah, what do you mean?

Mason: Where do you see it? On YouTube. Yeah, the Wired one. Yes.

Josh: Yeah, where are you guys getting pushed this? Is this the Daily Talk Show YouTube channel? It was just—

Mason: I think it's trending on YouTube at the moment, so it just pops up.

Josh: Yeah, well, I'm feeling out of the loop.

Tommy: Yeah, it's very good. But I think that the— what I've come to realize, I think that the pressure is in having an extra person. So having Tommy complicates it because it means that there is— they are in real time having to context switch between, say, if it was a kiss versus a handshake. I think I'm comfortable just hugging both of them out. The— because one time where I did go for a kiss with someone where I wasn't sure recently, I kissed them on the ear. And so I've since completely stopped doing that.

Josh: How was it?

Tommy: But no, it was just like, they were super nice to me afterwards, but I didn't feel good about it. I was like, there's a, there's a, there's a—

Josh: everyone is accepting of interacting, you know, that sort of—

Tommy: you said the Meek and Gayle thing didn't go too well.

Josh: No, but I think it still fits within, uh, okay, as much as it might have felt awkward for me, she might have been like, oh, it's a bit weird.

Tommy: Why did you get the sense that it felt awkward?

Josh: I just— because I, I literally— what, she said one word and then I've kissed her? And I wasn't directing my conversation towards her, it was like to, to the, to the guys. And so I was like, I don't know, I just probably could have stood back and not gone in for it. I panicked. I think I did panic. But what my point being is, I think there is a general consensus that there is, there's a general understanding across humans that interaction at greeting time can go a bit weird. But then it's like, it's not thought of after. People aren't going, that guy's fucked. It's like, we've all— everybody who has ever done a greeting has at some point felt awkward. Or what about first impression?

Tommy: What about the fact that like first impressions matter?

Josh: Yeah, but a first impression for what? I think a confident person that isn't overthinking it is leaving a better impact No, but I think that's the first impression. But I think that then the fumbly—

Tommy: I don't agree because I think that part of it is it's like you going confident with a kiss on the cheek could be seen as presumptuous or unprofessional.

Josh: Are you talking sexual now? Presumptuous for what? Presumptuous in what respect?

Tommy: But isn't there like, why? Why would you ever need to— why would you ever need to kiss someone?

Josh: Nothing sexual about a greeting kiss. I don't know where— I think you're blending the line between it being a sexual move and it being agreed.

Tommy: No, but I think it's not. So if sexual's, uh, you know, high on the spectrum, yeah, of rapport, but then you go like, rapport is a spectrum. And I guess that what I'm saying is it's like you are saying that, uh, you've misread the situation in regards to how much rapport you have, or, um, a mis—

Josh: disrespect of boundaries. I don't know if it's— I definitely haven't disrespected boundaries. I think there's a level of feeling that you can have to what it felt, what, what went on inside you in terms of how it made you feel. You feel. But I think somebody who is like confident, a confident person might put someone at ease.

Tommy: Or I don't think so. I think that that's like an awkward person.

Josh: I feel more awkward about someone who is super, super awkward.

Tommy: But you're saying it's either, it's either you kiss them on the cheek or you be awkward. No. And so what I'm saying, what I'm saying is like, I— once I've reconciled and worked out what I'm going to do, I'm going to commit to it and I'm going to be the most confident hugger that they've ever seen. However, what I'm saying is I don't think that— I think that it's misaligning the, uh, the confidence as something that is positive rather than looking at it of a line of respect. So if you're dealing with a But also, we also have this whole thing which is like, if you've got, uh, a CEO, uh, within a, a company or whatever, or someone who's senior and they're a woman, and you would normally, if it was a man, you would shake their hand, what you should you be doing in that scenario? The—

Josh: your idea— corporate environment, if you don't know, like, it's— I think it's— but the workplace is more— you have to have a level of respect because it's in a work environment.

Tommy: Yeah, I guess my point is that we're like, everything starts to merge, right? You start being like, oh, I know this person from here or there, or we're connected in this way. And so I think that there's— I don't necessarily think, because I have done like, I've trialled that for like a few months, which is your approach, which is just like, just confident and just do it or whatever. Yeah, but then you can read situations afterwards, and the fact that you look back and remember an experience from 15 years ago says that it has rattled you in some way.

Josh: I'm just pulling on a memory. I don't think about it at all. Like, literally, I might— one second and then it's done. I think that's— that is the difference. It's like, but should we?

Tommy: But the thing is, so why am I— why am I thinking about it?

Josh: Because that's your way your brain's wired.

Tommy: But what— but you like— but what are my intentions of thinking that way?

Josh: You're overthinking what the person's experience is being in that moment where it's like rattling the moment, right? Because then you—

Tommy: No, because you're putting a judgement on saying I'm rattling the moment.

Josh: You're rattling the moment for yourself, not for them. It's like you're seeing what they're doing.

Tommy: But can't you also just be in the moment and think like part of it is—

Josh: To be honest, this is the most I've ever thought ever about anything.

Tommy: But do you guys know what I mean? Like, the thing is, like, if, like, isn't listening to, like, feeling out the moment and understanding it and being respectful of those people, isn't that—

Josh: I think making a decision before you go in, maybe that's— maybe you need to do your way. So don't, don't make a decision about how you're going to do it, execute it before you get there, because then it's lack of thought. But then don't overthink.

Tommy: But we also have— but the other thing is we also already have a already have a sense, like if you've got a sense of, okay, here's the status, this is the relationship, you can make a decision within the moment, like before even getting in, of based on all of this sort of stuff, this is how I'm gonna—

Josh: Yeah, I think there's some people just verbalise it, others that don't. The process is still probably happening, happening. It's whether you're actually consciously choosing to think about it.

Tommy: Okay, what do you guys think?

Mason: Yeah, it's, it's a hard one. I, I think, uh, yeah, when it's anything corporate or real, uh, yeah, pretty much anything corporate, you go in for the handshake. I mean, I sort of do it, uh, on a case-by-case basis, but it's literally— if it's, if it's outside of like work or something, then it's definitely a hug. But I would just follow Tommy. Good boy. I would just follow Tommy.

Josh: Good boy. You know, I got you.

Tommy: Yeah. Anyway, what do you think? Yeah, I—

Unknown: it, it— like, like Mason said, it depends on the environment. But like, I've always been— I've been in situations before where I've tried to plan out what I'm going to do when I go up and meet this person. And by the time I actually get there, any thought that was in my head has just gone out the window and I'm just going to go with what—

Josh: Yeah, sure. Yeah, exactly. So you're saying think about it and then throw it out? Yeah, I think it's Yeah, Matt D'Avella is very much like you, Josh. He overthinks it. He did the dating thing, overthought it. I know he's talked about the interacting and, you know, handshakes, and I've experienced it, but it is just total— once you can throw it, because I bet you you've been in situations where you've thrown it out of your mind and it's really great and it's just, you vibed it. That's actually—

Tommy: it's hard because I think that probably the difference is, uh, positioning it as vibing it and respect and all that sort of thing versus like, I'm confident, I'm just going to go in and and do what I want.

Josh: Okay then, but this is all, um, we're talking about something that happens so fast and we're trying to then unpack it and talk out the steps to get to the success, whatever that looks like, which it's not like that, right? I don't think it's like trying to tell— stop fucking looking over to Mr. 97, you've done it all episode. Watch this back, watch this back. You've literally— Bri, you're right. I don't know what you're trying to get at, that I'm fumbling my words or something.

Tommy: No, I was actually looking at the camera then.

Josh: But you know when we try and unpack something and then work out a step-by-step process to get to the success, but when you do that, it seems too mechanical. And so what, um, Dyl said was like, yeah, just— well, it is—

Tommy: just go for it. Well, I think it's the— I think it's the spectrum is what, what I'm talking about, is it's like— you're on the spectrum.

Josh: Well, I think that you're on the spectrum.

Tommy: Well, I think that you're saying that you've got to be in the confidence, right?

Josh: I think I'm being I'm asked about what I think about it and I'm just thinking about myself and I don't think about this shit when I'm going to meet somebody. It's not even in my head.

Tommy: And he said, yeah, I wonder what that means.

Josh: I mean, it's working pretty good.

Mason: I reckon if you just feel uncomfortable, skip the kiss.

Tommy: Skip the meeting. Skip the meeting. Yeah, skip the meeting. No, just go for that.

Mason: I think the hug is quite safe.

Tommy: I think— yeah, I think a hug is pretty safe.

Josh: What's even safer is hi!

Tommy: No, no, that's like how close do I come? Yeah, say hi and just saying hi without any sort of interaction.

Mason: Yeah, what if they just like—

Tommy: That's fucking horrendous advice because I've seen like right now Derek's blowing up my phone. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email tomorrow can we can we sort out what's happening with the AirPods?

Josh: Uh, who's sucking what? Who's sucking what? Yeah. Oh, um, feedback. Amy watched the podcast and she said— remember how I said, oh, hang on, what happens if it's— what happens if I never said that? She said that you really somehow just avoided even talking or accepting that you would do anything as a result of it— us not finding it, which I was like, I fucking didn't say that. He never said yes, so we don't have evidence of him saying, 'I— yeah, I will.

Tommy: If you don't find anything, I will do that.' And the problem is that everything's a spectrum, isn't it? If we've learned anything— and even if I think something's one way, Tommy, we think it's the other. It's a daily talk show. We'll see tomorrow.

Josh: See you guys.