"0:03
It's a daily Talk Show Episode

0:04
300 with a tank we've got one of the podcasters

0:10
in the in the house.

0:11
That's this

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is

0:15
Charlie Colson. Hello.

0:17
I think I think that's cool. I think being Tommy so rattled having the oj that's the first time you've ever interrupted halfway a good three.

0:25
Would you say

0:25
I'm a godfather? A pod father?

0:28
Yeah. Original godfather original gangster? Yeah. Let's see,

0:31
I did say that there was howard stern was talking about you know, Howard Stern is like a radio DJ good.

0:38
If you're the oj and you don't know how to stand. You're no longer the oj s.

0:42
But hey, he talked about how he started calling himself the king of all media. Because you heard that Rolling Stones just said that though the biggest band in the world. And he called a press conference and said, Hey, I want you to start calling you this. And they said, Absolutely not. Then after like a few years, people just just started speaking people started to colon the king of omega, what

1:02
we're saying is this moment you can address Yeah,

1:04
what do you want? So do you want to be the god

1:06
the king of podcast?

1:10
After that qualify, because I'm not Joe Rogan? Yeah. Evan Smith. Yes. I'm the king of Australian podcasting, Charlie cotton. The Godfather?

1:18
Oh, you've got a few.

1:19
A few pseudonyms to stick to this one.

1:22
You're, you've got How long you been doing TOEFL for?

1:26
We started in 2010. It's funny. I was talking to someone about this. At the airport the other day, they're asking about podcasting. And was

1:34
that a fan at the airport? Just

1:36
Yeah, it was someone who I knew not through podcasting was a fan but not a podcasting. But he's asking was coming to Melbourne and said, I'm doing a podcast and which always leads that question once upon a lot to talk about in 2019. But he was asking what it's about and will and I, I do type up with will Addison and people always ask, you know, what's the show about? And that's when I always cringe because better in 2010 to do a podcast, the only reason or hooky made it was up, we're doing a podcast because no one knew what it was. But now there's all these great podcasts that have great hooks, like, hey, let's watch these same three films, you know, again and again and analyze them or whatever it is. But as is literally just willing to get together and we just talk and it's such a lame premise. To tell someone I've got a friend, we get together we have a conversation. That's actually

2:26
something we've kind of struggled with in terms of like, you know, I think everyone's sort of gone down the path of come up with the tagline and no know exactly why you're doing. What's your angle? What's your elevator pitch, if someone asks you, which can freak the freaking the fuck out and actually be counted to you working it out? Because you so freaked out? Yeah, but we're slowly getting there. Well, our producer,

2:47
American guy, he said to us, we were having a discussion on the show, like, what does that show about, you know, and then he sent in the description, which is so perfect, but it's also so like, what he said this show was a comedy conversation between two old Bates that's like, Oh, no, I don't want to listen.

3:06
By the old geezer podcast?

3:08
Did you ever try and apply an angle to it? Like, did you feel the pressure of like, I know when we were doing the daily talk show, if you listen to it, first 10 podcasts, there were times where like, we're going to focus on a theme. And today we're talking about things that happened to us in the pool.

3:23
I think what we tried to do will huge fans of Kevin Smith's mud cast. And like when we had the idea to start to fall, it's because I was when I was doing stand up to all trawling a stand up here. And I was falling around making like a behind the scenes documentary. And so we had these long drives, we would listen to podcast and it was just so brilliant. It was just two guys, Kevin Smith, Scott Mosier, old friends. And they would just go off on tangents and hypotheticals, and it was so funny, and they're just and he's such a great talker. And so that's what we wanted to do. And I think in the first like, 80 episodes, we were just trying to do our version of smart cast. But you know, as you know, you can't someone else's show, the reason you like someone else's show is you would never have the idea to do it, you've got to do your own thing. So I think initially, we would, you know, try and you know, will, you know, we're doing a lot more kind of like, what would you say working blue, swearing a lot more going to edgier topics and stuff. And then I think we just sort of found our rhythm. And what I like about this show is that we do just go all over the place, I think what we what the feeling we try and create without show. And even without a football show, the two guys want copies. It's, it's you just feel like you've just plugged in with two nights, you know, and you can pick up the conversation at any point. And even if you don't know exactly what they're talking about, you get an idea of what they've done. Yeah, I think

4:41
if you went in as a Joe, off the bat going, we're going to try and go all over the shop, it would probably not work. Yeah, I think if you can, if you just are like most friendships, the conversations at the pub is just fucking everywhere. Yeah. You know, I said, that's what Josh and I have done. We just like, we can't help but go everywhere.

5:00
Yeah. And it's interesting, too, because I think you notice that when you do live shows, because suddenly there becomes this this pressure to perform. Yeah. And it's actually the opposite of why we're doing the podcast in the first place, or why we like doing the podcast because you know, will and I have been made for years, but we don't see each other that much. So it is genuinely a catch up where the conversation goes all over the place. But then you do a live show. And all of a sudden you're like, this is nothing we need to give these people something we have to come up with something to make this interesting.

5:30
Have you worked out times where you've had to perform so Tommy and I've had situations where it's like, after doing 319 episodes, and being business partners now. We have days where it's like you pissing me off. And so we end up like, our approach has always been just sort of bringing it in on the show hundred percent. There was one time where it's like, yeah, like, we have a big fucking blow up. He's like, it's bringing on the show. I'm like, let's actually just wide a couple of hours. Have you found found that with the men of episodes you've done?

6:01
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely affected our friendship because if we get together to record a show, and we hook into something interesting all of a sudden we will pause and go this way.

6:12
That's not been any of our material. But I think it's also that thing of

6:18
what we love what I love about podcast is that it's not commercial radio. Like I don't want to hear slick two minute conversations with a you know, Sting at the end and then you into a song. I like saying you

6:29
don't listen to will Anderson's with this radio show the hot breakfast,

6:32
to be honest, I actually don't listen to a lot of commercial radio anymore. Like I'm almost exclusively like digital. It's like with the way I consume TV now it's all on demand. If I do listen to commercial radio will be like a podcast catch up. Yeah, cuz I just cannot stand the advertising.

6:48
Did you ever go into the pipeline of trialing doing radio and things like that? Was that ever

6:55
know? I mean, look, you see that the head really like coming? Alrighty, I'm ready. Like, that's what I mean is what I enjoy listening to with podcaster. There's a show that, that I love called the weekly planet, we're actually on their on their network. And I remember when those guys started getting sponsors, and the way they explained it to the audience was so transparent, and brought you into the kind of process where they said, Look, you know, we've got to pay for this, we've got to pay for that, you know, here's the kind of products will will endorse his products we won't endorse, and because they sort of brought you into the process I that became content one day business meeting. Yeah. But secondly, it engendered loyalty in May, with the products that they endorsed, because they explained their reasoning for it was like, Oh, this is great, because literally anything if if you identify with the show, or like the personalities on it, then you can listen to them talk about anything, whether or not it's a personal anecdote or something that they're prepared or whatever. Like that's, that's the beauty of, you know, will always have a taste for it. Like it's like the punk rocker broadcasting. Because you know, back in the day, you only need to know three chords. You were in a punk band. Yeah. Well, you need some microphone, and maybe a camera and you can do a podcast. Did you

8:07
ever get any offers to do radio, especially off the back of doing home and away? Because you were on how long? Five years? Five years?

8:14
Yeah. No offers to direct me though. I was at Triple J years ago, years and years and years ago. I used to do like little segments there. And there was a sort of opportunity to go further into that. But then the acting took me in a different direction. But I haven't really had that much experience in radio apart from going into promote something.

8:34
I think that's what makes TOEFL unique as well, because it's not coming in with all of the like the the baggage that radio can provide as well. Like there's certain things that like you're not going to hear you teasing on your show. You get it. We might mention this cup, the butt plugs. I know you've got something funny about that. That will do you think was that? That's not a random?

9:06
Has it been conversations with will around specifically not being right here because Tommy and I always talking about that. It's like Josh that sounding like, I might do better gear.

9:17
I don't think we've ever had like a specific conversation about what the parameters of this show, I think we're quite comfortable that it just will fall into whatever rhythm it needs to be like, I don't know, we don't i don't really listen back. Since we, I missed I used to cut all the episodes and upload them and everything like that. And now we have someone who does that for us. And I think it's actually freed me up creatively. Because I think if I did listen back, I would probably get more self conscious and be like, God, that was 15 minutes and nothing and maybe we should bring something in and I I do find the very few times I have attempted to kind of create a bit more steer in a certain way. Like the way will works. It does, like he will resist like he doesn't, you know, he's not gonna he will, he will respond spontaneously and in the moment. But, you know, I can sort of feel that when I try and construct something that doesn't doesn't match the style of the show when we're trying to do. I also think it's like, sometimes with how often we do it, trying that stuff. Like it's, I think if you don't listen back, I think Josh and I both and you're probably this, I'm just like, you're so self analyzing in the moment, if that didn't feel good, you probably won't go back there. Again.

10:27
It's also like, it feels like there's diminishing returns, eventually of listening to yourself back. If I say something that's really bad, someone will email. Yeah. What's your relationship like with the audience?

10:39
Pretty good. Like we've, I used to really enjoy going to let the apple you know, go into iTunes writings and describe the bad reviews just like, you know, just pressing that kind of ulcer on the

10:52
people saying, and I even did an episode where I brought in all the

10:58
wasn't really

11:00
generally pretty good. Like, I think that when we've done, you know, little bits of market research here and there, you know, we have a pretty good split in terms of male, female, you know, a fairly broad range of ages as well. I'm always really surprised when someone's like, Oh, you know, you got me through high school and like, You are too young. To be listening. I've actually worked out

11:20
how you become classified as the oj when someone gets a tattoo of your podcast on them. That's what happened.

11:27
Yeah. So far. Yeah, we've got people have got tattoos as a guy. He's got a gun Wisconsin, Wisconsin. I believe he's got personalized telephone number plates. That's it. Yeah, the guy he got the top up tattoo I advised him against. Yes, definitely. I would advise

11:41
against getting out.

11:42
There was a weird thing too, because he basically got tattooed within that symbol. And I'm like, confusing.

11:49
gives him option. Yeah. Maybe you you a podcast fan nowadays, like da spending much time listening.

11:57
Yeah, I mean, I tend to I've got my old fat, it's this, the some podcasts, I feel like, you know, in the same in the same way that type up is just, you know, a bunch of guys talking and you know, you really have to sort of get in on that ground level. There's some shows I listen to which I can't recommend to anyone. And because it is lacking, and I've been listening to them for so long, and I know the relationships and the dynamic, but I imagine if anyone else was to jump on that be like what

12:25
a common thing that people say about our show, but also just this specific ones that have cult followings where it's like, you almost feel like you've missed the boat. Have you got people that are finding out about tofu up today, where you get the emails or like, hey, I've just gone Yeah, back catalogue,

12:42
because we what we started with, we do a lead is section now like,

12:48
a couple weeks ago, we didn't tarp said that was just emails. And I'm terrible at that. That's my job is to monitor the emails. Like I think we're still got like a three month backlog.

12:56
You need to miss the 97, after all of it went through and saw that we had because we still we mentioned them on the show. But we're just not good at the like responding.

13:05
Yeah, I

13:06
mean, initially, I made this promise to our listeners, that's like, Look, if we don't read it out, you'll get a response. And then I was like, Oh, this is

13:13
too many emails, like, responding to all of them.

13:16
We've made a lot of promises that that have fallen through the cracks. Is that something you guys know? Yeah, yeah,

13:21
yeah, we're constantly promising we come up with stupid ideas every week, we generally get every couple of weeks, we'll come up with some idea that is guaranteed to lose this money, some promotional performance or merchandise or something, we, for a while, we really got into the idea of being as completely anachronistic as possible with this show. So

13:42
I don't even know that would accurately stick

13:45
a counter counter to what works.

13:49
Contrasting.

13:51
It's like, well, it's like recording a podcast on a wax cylinder, you know, you don't really, you don't really need that outdated. And so

13:58
we were talking once about like, we forget what we talked about in the podcast, so much we need someone to keep notes for us, we need to get like a stenographer. And so for a live show, we got a courtroom stone on stage with this. And so she like transcribed the show as we're talking, then we could go back and check with it. And then at the end of that, we took the transcription and turned it into a book that we gave to people, but the whole thing cost us a fortune is like 200 bucks an hour and then to get it transcribed and then turned into a book. But we loved it. Like that's the kind of it's the kind of any, any money we make from advertising or Patreon generally goes back into the show, like we're not drawing an income from it. At this stage, which we're quite comfortable with, we have other careers.

14:42
But what we do want to do is just kind of keep exploring these dumb ideas, like at the moment we have the lettuce promotion is we got a sticker book made up where people can take these stickers and insert us into the fuck if I want to be the banks used to get up around town, so we had a listener rod into say that her grandparents still have not moved on from her ex boyfriend and all their photos. And so she's going to go around and stick like us into all those photos that,

15:11
again, cost me more money to send it because when we have international listeners it's like to send to the States, for instance, it's like boxing posted? Yeah,

15:20
a couple of things, it does get pricey, is it? I mean, a lot of people now probably thinking are going to podcasting make money. It's like what's what's your thoughts for people that have that as the the goal, you definitely

15:33
can do it. But you need a massive like, I would say you need to you need video support, you need a YouTube channel and a podcast. And you need significant audience numbers from both because no one's really, it's the same old story in Australia with such a small population, like, the way the sponsors often work is on a CPM, you know, per thousand listeners or per thousand audience downloads. So unless you have a significant number, you're not going to be getting that much for those, you know, for those thousand listeners. So where I think maybe this will go or what I'm hoping is that brand associations or branded content seems to be the most like logical alignment like that, then that there will be brands will like, Look, the numbers are well and good. But we actually like what your shows about. We think it fits in with, you know, the image we're trying to push for our brand. Because I think it two years ago, everything I read was like podcasting is exploding like this is going to be the new thing. I mean, you know, Jules Lund, who's on the show, a couple was a couple weeks ago.

16:41
But he will remember him signed me to go everything that he'd read was like podcasting, you know, you're in the box seats and like, right, it's not raining money. But I think that no one's quite figured it out. Like we had a sponsor for I FL podcast a couple years ago, that went really well. Like they jumped on board halfway through the season, we made some video content for them while I made some video content for them. You know, we did a live show all this kind of stuff. And the market research they did was brilliant. Like all the responses were fantastic luck and a positive opinion of the product. And I would you recommend, would you take a product recommended by will and Charlie like all this stuff that was really positive. But then the following year, so you know, we thought we were going to get like, you know, Jules was right, where there's, there's right, yeah, we're gonna get Qantas Alexis or someone that bankrolling is next year, but then the next year, the response was, look, we're just worried. We're redistributing the marketing budgets, we're sticking with traditional media, TV and radio. And you know, my wife works in advertising. I understand that like marketing budgets. And that's not that they're getting smaller, although they are. It's more that there's so many areas in which you can spend your marketing budget and dilute. So by the time people get to podcasting, and especially if you're a podcast, who has a small audience, there's not going to be a lot of money

17:58
to give to you users. Right? There was a part of it now it's a tiny little porcelain.

18:02
Yeah, there's like, there's like, there's like 17 different outlets, you can you know, relate to and yeah, you know, my wife directs commercials, and when they doing a shoot, now, the agency will say, Okay, well, this is the, you know, we're going to be shooting the tape as a pop. But we also need to do stills, we also need like the 62nd, Instagram videos, and all this kind of stuff out of the one budget, whereas 10 years ago, that was just your PPC budget. What

18:26
about when you're on home and away? Was that because I think I met you when you just started? Yeah, it was it just starting out in 2012? Yeah, so would have been a year or two into that, right? Was there that sensibility, then going we're filming a TV show, that is, you know, got the prestige. But we're now wanting to take chunks out of this was there any of that thinking as in the budget for the show, I said they were going to film the show, but we want to create micro content, so you end up doing

18:54
definitely like the you know, ever, they have a digital department. So there was a lot of kind of, I think actually humming away, at least when I was on it was the number one digital catch up show for CHANNEL SEVEN. So I think that sort of forecasts where it's all going, you know, like, if you look at sort of free to air, it seems like a weed thing now, like, how do you ever watch free to air anymore? And when you do, it seems so intrusive, having has commercials play, like every 12 minutes, or whatever it is, like sport for this can really make sense. But, you know, I think the way people want to consume the media is on demand. And it makes sense that you know, if your shows targeted towards teenagers, that they're going to watch it on their iPhone, or their iPad, or whatever. So, you know, you make those little bits of bonus content. I think neighbors did something really interesting A few years ago, where they made these like short films or short series in the cast where they did like a they did like a zombie version. Yeah,

19:52
they had a guy. Yeah, I remember full time. Do you had an Fs seven like a camera and would go in and produce? You know, all this different? secondary content, which sits on its own? Right?

20:04
Yeah. Tell you Who? Who could take I know he's king of content. Are Stewart. Was it? Was he on him anyway? When you there?

20:14
Is he still there?

20:15
Yeah.

20:16
Have you seen what he's been doing lately? He's a spokesman for GoDaddy.

20:21
Yeah, that's

20:21
unbelievable. He's using he's, you know, flaming things like releasing products. It's actually quite smart. I've talked about a couple of times here. Bizarre though, like that. It's like taking his character and then sort of spin it makes sense. But it seems seems like the stretch for a guy like him.

20:39
Well, yeah. I mean, I think it's obviously al Stewart as a character is like that crotchety old man and yeah, so I mean, they can Copyright The name of the characters.

20:51
But they can't Copyright The act of playing. Yeah. So he can take that and leverage it in whatever way you want. Yes, King a countdown.

20:57
How much did you

21:00
Yeah, official title? How much we looking at numbers at the beginning when you're doing tofu up?

21:06
Oh, probably little bit to begin with. Like, I think that I mean, back in again, this is the godfather of podcasting.

21:17
About the good old godfather. But is that what was sticking with oj? We need to work out the exact title.

21:24
The Godfather of podcasting was a guy named Adam curry, who invented it in 2004. Okay,

21:30
Australian golf.

21:34
Yeah, I like that regional spin always works really well. Ok. So the Ozzy Godfather, AJ,

21:42
AJ, JA, JA, JA,

21:43
JA, JA, JA, General.

21:46
So, it was the early days. Yeah.

21:48
So I think back in those days, you know, you put your podcast out and you go straight to number one on iTunes, because of whatever the algorithm is. And so which we still don't know, really know that it didn't really release the numbers. Apple did it. It's confusing.

22:04
Yeah. It's, it can be gamed, it's I don't think the charts are a good representation of

22:09
there's something about reviews as well, yeah,

22:10
it's moved a lot to subscriber numbers reflect that you can actually there's a, if you use the cast box app on iOS, you can actually see how many people subscribe to podcast. And so if you want to know if someone's in the charts, and you want to actually see if they're doing well, you can cross reference cast box and be like, oh, they've actually got no one. But yeah, there's a lot of ways of gaming it but I haven't,

22:36
I haven't checked the numbers in a long time. Because we have a we have a producer who sort of basically handles all the backend for us now. And so I mean, I've got an idea of where we kind of sit in terms of numbers, but it's never really, it's never really been a conscious effort of like, I can't work this number, we need to get to this number, like we want to do what we do and make it accessible for more people that part of the reason we joined planet broadcasting is that the weekly planet has a massive audience. In fact, you know, when we first talked to them, they thought that could be like a good exchange a quid pro quo in that they can interact because they're their audience is 90%. overseas. Yeah. And hardly anyone knows them in Australia, which is crazy, because it's such a brilliant podcast, and it's so well done. But they're not really known here. And so they thought, well as the godfathers of Australian podcasting, maybe you can bring some attention to us. And we can introduce you to our American audience or, you know, mostly American audience.

23:33
I don't know, I don't know how, I don't know how that relationship is worked out in terms of him that they send a significant spark or wasting insignificant Spark. But it does make me sort of think that, you know, you people stick to what they what they know, and they act like, I'm just because something works in one, you know, forum doesn't necessarily mean it's going to lead to numbers in another area, or, you know, if we decided to just go on an old out, assault and get like, as mainstream as possible and stuff, I don't know, necessarily, because this show is what it is, I think, for a time, we thought maybe we did have like something that was a bigger idea. And then, you know, with, for instance, with the AFL podcast, because that is a focused idea. It's literally you know, it's about football, I noticed that we sort of we tend to get more interaction, it seems to be more each episode gets more impressions, all this kind of stuff. And I think that is because it's it's topical, and its current, whereas I think, sort of sits in its own little universe. Like maybe, maybe type of isn't the flagship. It's just the kind of spiritual Yeah, it's a spiritual podcast

24:41
for the fans. Caught at Rogers. They're noisy. Yeah. And I can do a live show that. Yeah, there's definitely like an energy about, you know, sport and then connecting to the teams. Can we talk more about sport? Definitely not. got no idea.

24:58
Ray. Well, heard back late now, who was Lloyd, he's,

25:04
he's talking a lot about very well, he's a security fence.

25:08
In terms of you did a stint in LA.

25:11
Yeah. Yes. Better part of last couple of years.

25:13
I mean, we like most of the people. I ask what podcast he listened to. It's all they're all American podcast. Do you think Ozzy's have a good shot of breaking the American market? Like, is that what's going on

25:26
there? Because I believe the weekly planet has definitely done that.

25:29
Have the how the hell of that?

25:30
And I think it's Well, it's because it's a it's a movie geek podcast. And that's huge business. Like the geeks have inherited the flag that's, you talk about like comic books and comic book movies and TV and you know, Game of Thrones, all that kind of stuff. Like that is so huge right now. And you can go on YouTube right now. And there's like 50 video essays about the breaking down the latest Game of Thrones trailer. I mean, I came across the planet. that exact way is I just found one of the best YouTube videos thought was really good. And then they advertise their podcast and listen to the podcast. And it's kind of funny when we first met with them to have that discussion around. Well, maybe we can help you and maybe you can help us. And we exchanged like download components. We were like, holy shit. Really? I mean, I think he could go on YouTube, they get like 5 million downloads a month for the YouTube video.

26:20
Well, 1% of the American population is a lot more than ours.

26:23
Yeah, so they definitely have a breakthrough and the audience is due. The fact that they're Australian doesn't seem to be like doesn't inhibit people's enjoyment of it, because they know their shit. And you know, that's the other thing about sort of like fan. If you if you if you are doing a show that is fan orientated, people will sniff out if you are not a real fan, but these guys know their shit. And so I think that that, that their credentials are on display. But yeah,

26:51
the episode ash Williams, who we had on this this week, yeah, this week, he gave la a bit of a crack. Do you think this as an Aussie going to a lie? Like now you got these tapes of all these? You think these still white in the Ozzy in LA? There's ash factor with the two great

27:12
topless

27:13
jelly shot by shot by Yeah.

27:17
I look, I think with the first time I went to LA was in 2007. And you will definitely much more exotic back then. Now that there's so many Australians in high profiles over there, I think it's a bit less of a of a, an attraction. But it works both ways. Because Australians have a great reputation over there as both being talented, but also hard working. And I think that's a product of coming from a tiny industry where, you know, you've got to fight and scrap for every opportunity you get. And so those two attributes hold you in good stead

27:51
right baristas as well. Great service. Yes.

27:53
Yeah. These are

27:54
Yeah, yeah. I think that when we're in LA, there was

27:58
all the good coffee joints in New York, right? miles east.

28:00
Yeah. Did you is consistency, an important part of this whole equation is

28:05
100%. I mean, I think that's the one thing that we've done better than anything else. Content is on the shows we put it out. Yeah. You know, and especially considering, you know, will and I have spent large periods of time I've assays, we've managed to just like Scott being and do it. So even when it's been really challenging. And it's much better, when we're in the same room easily, like, you know, but that's just is not possible. We live in different states. Now. Like I said, for the last four or five years, at least one of us was based in LA. So you know, we're trying to get the time zones lined up. And I remember doing a show, traveling between LA and London last year and getting to my hotel, and it was like, you know, one in the morning, and I'm getting up to do this show in the hotel into the can internet connection was shit. And like, he kept dropping out. And we just like struggled for this whole episode. And then I was like, what do we do it? Like, this is a fight, right? Yeah. Like, I mean, I'm know people love it. But it's like, what are we doing? But then what else would I be doing? Yeah, like I like it. And I think that it sort of keeps you got to keep the blade sharp. Like I think that I, I want to I want to be doing this and the financial opportunities or where it might lead to career wise is sort of you got to put that out of your mind a bit. And if we offer and we're often very honest, when we talk about it, like, Look, if this gets too hard, or deny the benefits and no longer there, or it's just like it's too much of a hassle, then we can let it go. Like that's the thing you have to sort of sort of way out but it hasn't, you know, I don't feel when close to that.

29:39
And what's the worst that can come from it? And what's the exact best that can come from it? I think you've been from what I can see. I looked on YouTube last night I found this film you wrote and directed fired all my night. I didn't write

29:51
it.

29:53
I did. Yes. So much fun stuff.

29:57
I think the editor I think the editor put that up YouTube without my permission. Yeah.

30:01
Well, I found it and it's on YouTube.

30:04
So that was 15 years ago. 10 years ago. Yeah. Which I think it was uploaded 15 years ago. Something like that by an

30:10
editor again, who did not have

30:13
the show Game of Thrones have that all the time as the editor what

30:16
what I love about it, though, is I see you and in that was Chris Lily, and

30:21
Roger course

30:22
yes Janssen. These are people who are, you know, up there in the Australian media land, I'm doing

30:28
a

30:32
you're doing it to, you know, all the things you've done. But it's like, I love saying that piece of history of Australian people who are still now working, that we're doing it then do free then. So it's like, you gotta have a passion. You gotta have a love for it. Because there's a whole bunch of stuff you get to do. Where you're not getting the

30:53
I think having a blue collar attitude towards a creative pursuit. Yeah, is the best combination. I think that's what Australians do do well in Li it's like, I mean, we don't have big trailers. Like even when, you know, I've worked on big TV shows and like, you're still getting changed in like a broom cupboard. With no prophecy, but like, it doesn't

31:13
romanticize. I remember filming something at Conan's set, and you have this idea of what you think it is. But it's essentially caravans with just like, it's not that aspirational once you actually get up close, and you knock on the word and

31:26
Yeah, and I think too, that if you have this idea that, you know, show bees has some kind of what's the word? Like?

31:35
Get some cachet? Oh, yeah. And where you're going to be really disappointed. Like, you know, you know,

31:40
as you're seeing off Stewart's trailer,

31:44
it's like that. How often have you heard about someone going, I met a comedian in real life while he was really serious. So he's really cool. And it's like, Yeah, because it's a fucking joke. Like, he's not going to be on all the time. And I think if you go into a job like this thinking art old is going to be like fun and that you're crazy. Because it's, it's still a job. And I think the people, you know, to your point, I guess the people who have gone on are the ones who, yeah, well front up to do a short film, they're made of they're just thrown together, you know, for no money and the same. They have the same attitude and level of professionalism, as if they were working with like, you know, Steven Spielberg. And that's kind of my philosophies. When I don't think I've ever turned down when someone's requested I do. Can you be in my podcasts? I don't, I don't think I've ever turned it down. someone's like, well, what's the worst that could happen? Yeah, you know,

32:29
it can be trained.

32:40
We normally do that at the 45 minute mode.

32:43
If you ever made any big life decisions based on the podcast,

32:49
eloping Didn't you alone? Yeah. But

32:55
I mean, like, you know, there were things that I traveled for three months, and Tommy and I still did the podcast, right. So every single morning, when I was in Europe, I had 4g, so I probably spent 1500 bucks on 4g SIM cards wherever I went,

33:12
No joke, but I,

33:14
I justified it. And so and you know, just being in all different parts and realizing that this is this is actually like, consumed my life. But then my girlfriend breaks like, I don't want you to stop because I even though I'm in pain in those moments, I know that it's like, it's actually what I want to do. And if I, the reason I'm in pain is because I just want to get it out. Yeah, it makes it so what is it there being things where it's like, you have actually made you've turned things down? Or you've said or maybe I will, have you ever thought maybe I'll I'll go here. So I'm in the same spot as well. So we can do the show.

33:50
Yeah, like I mean, I think we've both made sacrifices, like when la pod fest was still a thing. Will and I both flew out to LA for weekend to do the live show. I mean, not at the same time, there was one year when he was living in LA and I was doing home and away at literally finished work on Friday morning, jumped in plane flew to LA did this show. Saturday night, la time, went straight from the show to the airport back in the plane, flew back to Sydney went to work again on a Monday. So I did lie in 24 hours and will have done the same thing. And we were losing money on that. That was like a, you know, 1500 dollar airfare. But we just sort of felt like, let's do it. I mean, because this may never happen again. But this might be the only opportunity we have to do something like that. And if you're not making money from it, then why else? Are you doing it? If not for the experience? Yeah, you know, or to have the conversation. And now I also think that it's too light to be conservative now.

34:51
We're all in like, what are you going to? Do? You either shut it down? Or you just keep pursuing these things?

34:56
Did you have a break from TOEFL while you were doing him? Yes.

34:59
I when I started on home in Hawaii, there was sort of, I mean, I don't know what I'm allowed to say. Listen, so you know, there was just some, there was just some concerns about the fact that you know, it can be adult content. And yeah, I was on this very family friendly show. And so they asked that I stopped doing it, which, you know, I talked to will about and we weren't happy about it, but it was like, Okay, this is a new job. And I you know, I want to make a good impression. And so we did that. And then it's actually Jules Lund of all people who, when I told him about, it was like, they said, you couldn't do it. And I said, Well, you know, CHANNEL SEVEN. And he's like, seven, I was like, I don't know, he's like, Well, why don't you find out who and go talk to them? And it was the best bit of advice,

35:43
because that is social media coordinator, or

35:46
some fucking Well,

35:47
you just you just now Stewart.

35:51
Down, you see, now you're like, Oh, well, they've just said no, in your head. It's like this big, faceless, but then, you know, there was a person who made the decision, and I want to spoke to them, and expect my position, which was like, Look, you know, I don't think that there's going to be, you know, any kind of like, crossover, I don't think anyone's gonna be scarred from going from one show to the other. If anything, you may get more curious people when it was exactly.

36:16
And once that had that conversation, it was like, Yeah, go for it. And so we've got up and running. And to be honest, I think actually having that break probably helped the show a bit, because it sort of allowed us to go off what will win and often created fo fog, which is, you know, to fuck without Charlie, and enabled me just to focus on this new job, because my hours were all over the place, and, you know, maybe would have been a bit too stressful having the two things going at once. And it also gave us, like, added to the mythology of the show, like, that's what we, you know, we often talk about, you know, when something like that happens, again, it gives you like hours and hours of content to talk about, but it also is part of the story. And so when we decided, when when we got the green light to do the show, again, we able to sort of do this really cool build for a couple of months, like just dropping hints that you know, what's going to happen, this show is coming back in such a sort of, it's another way of bringing the audience back into it.

37:10
Did you feel like you had had framed them as the man with either like it? Yeah.

37:15
Well, I mean, I kind of

37:18
wasn't a case of like,

37:21
they were the villain that we when we did our last episode, before we took a break. You know, we sort of explained what had happened. And it's like, we completely understand that point of view, like, you know, they're protecting their product, just like you wouldn't detect your product. You know, we were disappointed that they, they, they thought the way they did, but it wasn't a case of like, I mean, I could say no. Like, no one had a gun to my head, it was a choice that I made,

37:45
was it a moment for you to reflect? Because maybe in those moments, I feel like we can dip between, say, old school media and new school media and the different sort of schools that they both had. Did you feel like it was a learning from you would be like, actually, if I believe in this, and this is going to be the thing. Someone shouldn't be able to tell me.

38:07
Yeah, but I also wanted to pay my rent,

38:10
to be working towards getting something like, you know, a full time acting role, like I'm going away, like, they want to have the show Hawaii, neighbors like me, for actors in Australia can work five

38:22
days a week, exactly my craft it

38:24
100% of what you were sort of aiming

38:26
for no, like I hadn't, I wasn't like I was aiming for, I'd had, I don't know, I'd come knocking a couple times before that not sort of 10 and down because it just was doing other stuff, or I just wasn't interested. But at the time they came back it was was settled in Sydney, you know, my wife was getting her advertising create going. So I just felt like the right fit. And I'm really glad to do like, I have nothing but good things to say about him. In a way it was one of the best jobs I've ever had, you know, still got lots of friends from that show. And in the internet to have a lot of flexibility to do what I wanted to do. But I think it's any new job is like, no one is going to hire you. If you say oh, by the way, I actually have this other thing, which is my real passion.

39:08
Like you've got a front top and justify your paycheck. Well, you can call it now as a side hustle. And everyone's cool with it. Yeah, everyone needs a side hustle. And it is kind of a weird thing, too. Because there are a lot of actors on the show who do have side hassles, who, you know, they'll either do endorsements, or they'll do hosting, or they'll do all kinds of other things like that. But again, it's more about showing that you're going to be professional, you're going to turn up on time focused, you know, know your shit back to front. So once you establish that, then I think any reasonable employer is like, Okay, well, yeah, you can stop, you know, diversify.

39:46
Yeah. What I what's open more doors, I'm going away or type up.

39:53
Question, I love that they think I completely different like Hemingway in terms of acting. Great visibility, you know, you go to the States, and you know, all the management agents know about it, because obviously people like, you know, Chris Emsworth and run quantum have been through that factory. So that's one benefit that top up in terms of unexpected opportunities has been really great. Because, you know, and not only through stuff with Masuda cells, but the people who approached us, like, we were approached by a publisher about making why I know, as a young, what young adult fiction is that, you know,

40:33
it could sound

40:34
Yeah.

40:36
I thought that I wanted us to write a children's book, I thought would be hilarious, but like, this publisher was like, I think you guys would appeal, you know, to young men. So you know, have you would love to have a conversation with you about like some book ideas, which we talked about on the show, and then never.

40:57
Yeah, it's good content. I mean, I love the idea. I love the idea that, you know, if TOEFL never grows beyond what type of bees, you know, the audience we have now and we're just constantly doing it down the line or in will spare room or whatever it is. That's what the show stays. I do like the idea that there can be some associated product that spins out of it. Yeah, that you know, you know, for instance, the guy, the guy, James Foster, is our resident artist. He does all episode artwork, he does wills tool posters is a brilliant artist. And he and I've been writing a comic book together. And you know, we've released kind of like six issues of this, like mini comic book. And that has all stemmed out of a conversation we had on the show. And so I went to visit him at his studio in in Adelaide. And that's just something that I would not have thought on four years ago. You know, being a comic book writer, and it's been really great. And now you look at that, it's like, Okay, well, can this comic book be turned into something? Yes. And you know, I love it when people say this black you know, the

42:02
art inspired by the show, or like fiction inspired by the show, all that kind of stuff, because, you know, I'm going to steal from

42:10
I love it. I love looking at podcast as the mechanism to do and then from the doing comes these opportunities, like say, so it's like that constantly showing up is something has to happen. It might not be that you know, the speed

42:28
bag

42:31
suddenly has to give at some point.

42:34
Yes, connection. Well, like we've got a guy he's not blue collar thing. Yeah, it is. It's just like that. But I also think to that point, TJ is it's like, it's also being handy.

42:44
TJ age.

42:48
Also.

42:50
W

42:53
What the fuck was I saying? Oh, yeah, it's also being okay, with nothing happening as well. Like, I think that the Yeah.

43:00
surrendering, we've talked about, like,

43:03
being detached from because otherwise, because we need to be I think like, Tommy and I have had conversations where it's like, we need to be like, you look at salaries of radio personalities and that sort of thing. And we think there is a market if I if we just we can make fucking hundred K a year, ah, doing the being able to pay Mr. 97. Well have an office. And that's that's it. Like, we would be so fucking happy happy with with that. And I think that maybe there is that expectation that you are going to blow up, it's going to be this massive thing rather than just fucking paying rent. Well,

43:42
I went on a little short course last weekend. Well, last week, about growing your creative business, just afters in Sydney. film, the radio school was like a two day course. And it was run by this guy. He used to work in publishing and now sort of each just works in an advisory capacity to industry, different businesses, but specifically sort of creative industries. And so you know, each person with there was this couple of content creators as a guys to work in advertising. Then there was me who said, Well, you know, like rotten act, and I've got this podcast and stuff. And he said, Okay, well, what you need to work out is the tipping point between hobby and business. Yeah. And he's gone. And that's a purely numbers game. If the money you're bringing in is equal to or less than,

44:32
then it's a hobby. But he said, if you are, if you You've also got to count in things like hours away from your family, you know, hardware up they all this kind of stuff. And so the more thought about it them, like should I think this might be a hobby. I mean, it's kind of weird because like I said, you know, the things that we love to suing let the sticker books and the stenographer and stuff is all stuff that loses us money, but by the same time that's why I do it.

45:00
Love it, like I it would be great if you know some mega producer just swept in some billionaire you know, producers said okay, great. Well, you know, we're going to fund you you're going to have like new equipment is 100 k year by the unit and an office but I don't know that that really exists in a in a such a saturated market.

45:19
We've talked a lot about how there's a pressure I think, for everybody to feel like they need to turn their hobby into the side hustle into this money making thing, which like, you know, think about everyone candles, you make them because you love them, I can sell these. Like, there is a huge difference between having it running as a serious operation

45:36
steel Saunders, who does the love green, green guide letters podcast that was his flagship. That's what you know, the show that he started doing. And then his side thing was he did like a Star Wars podcast like a fan thing. And quickly, the Star Wars thing just caught fire to the point where he moved to Los Angeles because he had so much the audience grew so quickly, and there was such a demand for it that he had to get closer to the soloist and so now that is his primary thing. So it is he still does I love green, green godless, I believe or at least you know, intermittently, hotter in the United States to get

46:16
to 97 Do you know what the green God is a 19 year old kid? Nobody. You know,

46:20
the newspaper is just

46:25
he got 97 on it. And he's into school. So he's, I can imagine. I can imagine Mr. Nice seven, actually, within newspaper doing all the like,

46:34
Really?

46:36
I thought you might have been one of those kids that I remember when I first like when I grew up, I was in the suburbs. And I was working on a short film in the city. And it was like one of the first times I saw the age where I can the Herald Sun was always like around my hood. I just thought like, these guys are so smart like

46:56
big that

46:59
we read the future review at a cafe.

47:02
You grew up with a large family Yeah,

47:05
youngest of nine kids youngest

47:06
of nine Josh his mom's one of the youngest youngest of 11. Oh, wow.

47:10
Yeah. So all my aunties and uncles. I can either super old or dead.

47:15
Yeah, right.

47:18
Update story.

47:22
But is it big? Do you think there's anything that shaped you of being one of nine are definitely

47:27
the being one of being wanting to be like an entertainer or communicate or whatever? Because when you're the youngest at the table, the dinner table? No one's listening to you. Yeah, your opinion doesn't count. Even now as a 41 year old man. When my family gets together, my opinion somehow still ranks as the least important. You know, because of the where I was born. Did

47:49
you ever have a conversation? Like I feel like I feel

47:52
like as I'm we're all youngest, by the way we're all the youngest key babies. Yeah, babies

47:56
but I think three babies a baby.

48:00
Three babies in a man

48:03
there are three big diabetes now there there is. I feel that there is the the feeling that you need to have a conversation with a bit of a reset being like, Hey, guys, we're all adults now. Have you ever felt like you need to have that with your family where it's like, try and shift things. Are you just it just,

48:22
I mean, I think podcasting, my love of podcasting stems from the big family thing because my family are all big talkers. And I love to explore issues and you know, really get into like meaty discussions. And so I grew up with the sound of like conversation to me, it's really comforting, like often, you know, I love music, but I'm not like a huge fan where I can, you know, nine every track off an album or whatever, but I love listening to podcasts. I love listening to people talking and I think that does stem from that. But I also think that my family don't really get what I do. Like I remember a couple years ago, it's hilarious, right, my sister's place in Melbourne for Easter. And it was the day before will and I were playing the comedy theater for the comedy festival. So you know, like 1000 seats. They had a pretty big show. And Miranda's said sorry, Gemma said Mr. Miranda. Like, are you guys gonna go see Charlie show? My sister was like a nun and now we have we haven't bought plans and Gemma thinking she was doing the right thing was like, Oh, well, you know, we can get you tickets in a month. And she's inside my family very reluctantly. Yeah, show

49:31
it so we got them like, you know, bunch of tickets and amended during the show. And it's that thing of like, even with 1000 people, you can still just like fixate on the people who aren't laughing and a bang. So there's my family.

49:44
And I just did they just know into it. And I you know, I love them and they love me but it's just not their thing. What I do for a living.

49:52
I think part of it is realizing that it's like it's okay for it to be their thing. Like I I'm always ass might like my mom said I listened to the your Episode The other day, or whatever. And what I've always do is I always make this mistake of saying or what do you think? And I caught myself in the moment I said, Oh, yeah, cool. And I was like so proud of myself. But the next day she followed up and said, I don't think you're very nice today.

50:20
You holding on she was working out waiting for me to ask

50:23
a friend a friend of mine said to me about their sibling. If they weren't family I wouldn't be friends. Which is it? kinda dark but there is a there's a bond that is beyond this is never

50:36
a couple of years before my mom passed away she said to me

50:42
she's gone. It wasn't embarrassing at all.

50:47
You should definitely print that as a review. What have you learned from being around comedians?

50:54
That they hate themselves tonight each other? Yeah, and the worst thing you can say? The West's me You can say about a Canadian because I've heard every Canadian like a legend spend on the Canadian side. He's like, Oh, you know, they still jokes. That's like one of the it's it's like the lawless thing but every Canadian is like accuse someone else's doing it. I don't know like, because I started off with Michael Shamblin Charlie Pickering. And a few other guys we were all at this production company in Melbourne in like 2001 Skype production company called exit films who now they're sort of exclusive and I love

51:28
when I was I remember being in BCI in like film and TV and just watch like exit because they were all shot on 35

51:36
year old brilliant direct. It was Yeah,

51:37
my night was a run of full. I mean, we got access to the building in South America. And we filmed on a rooftop and it was like

51:43
well, even before even before that they had this place in Richmond opposite Richmond station, which was this old creaky warehouse that that got it and hardwood floors and it was like classic kind of like creative space in the late 90s. You know what people were riding like razor scooters around like glass walls. So they the guy who ran the company Henrik was this brilliant kind of Danish photographer and moved to Australia and just decided to start a production company. And so they were they were quite a good films. And they'll sort of coming up that that a lot of great young directors like blendon and guy, Quentin Ivan's he did the that cracker

52:17
I think it was cracker bag.

52:19
Yeah. And so they had, they wanted to make a comedy pilot. And they'd seen these guys do a show the comedy festival like a unit review type show. And so that that was like Charlie Pickering and a few other guys. And so they had been working on this pilot that hadn't really gone anywhere. Then Michael Chamberlain was brought in, and he brought me in as a writer. And so we weren't getting paid, but what they gave us was an office and access to all their gear. And so we just go in every day, like a job and just write sketches and go out and film them. And it's really we didn't realize it at the time, because we're just all uni age. And we just assumed Oh yeah, this is like life is you just go someplace and people give you a camera to

52:58
make stupid sketches. Tension of union summer, guys, right? Yeah,

53:02
yeah. And then after about a year, because Hendrix dream was to head to dreams wondering was like you want to make this like pilot that he could sell to a network. But that never happened. And then in the other. The other dream he had was he had this crazy idea that one day, people would want to watch videos on their computers. And so he wanted to create, like exclusive video content for people's computers. And I remember we went around and met with all these different companies and like, no one is going to watch videos on their laptop, like, you know, the TV on nothing to say, for years before YouTube started. Like if he just sort of held his fire, he could have done it perfectly. But so we did that for a year. And then after you Hendrix said, Look, we have to shut this office down, we can't afford to just, you know, keep access to it. But that was great for us. So main, Michael and Charlie made it like a sketch comedy pilot just brought in some friends and sent that out. And then Michael and Charlie started doing stand up. And so I said I had to pause to go down. I was like, gonna do the stand up path or, you know, just keeps doing the acting. And then I got my first acting role. So I went in that direction, but I was tangentially associated with comedy The whole time. And I tried stand up a few times and just found it terrifying. Like I did, I did, I think two or three, I did roll comedy wants do the hate didn't get through. And then I did a couple shows in Melbourne. And all I remember is just sheer panic, like just sheer panic, like with such a overly rehearsed, you know, like, five, five minutes the most. We did it. We did a live type for the two years ago way we found the original.

54:37
So we rewrite it was just awful. But Canadians, it's, it's, I think it's gonna be one of the toughest jobs, not just like that musician, because you've got the tour, the grind of the tour of going around and gigging. But it's also just it's all on your back. Like, it's not like, you know, you can play the heat that everyone loves, you know, like, generally most committed. I mean, there are some comedians to do this 20 years, but you're going out and you're really just with a microphone, you completely naked on stage. Yeah, you know, not literally, but some comedians in the show. But just the idea of being up there and just trying to kind of make people laugh like it seems. We if you actually think about what you're trying to do, it seems insane. Because if someone says to you, I'm here to make you laugh, what's the first thing you do you got that going?

55:25
Try, especially in audience, and if you don't make them laugh, the the natural thing to do as an audience member is to judge? Yeah, I think that wasn't funny. Yeah. Which is then just a complete, you know, rip apart of what they've been trying to do, without really trying to be malicious about it. Even if you just say,

55:43
fuck that. It wasn't funny. I think generally, the best comedians I know, are the ones that are the ones. Obviously, you got to have something to say, but I think it's, it's, it's knowing it's knowing who you are, and embracing the differences, like no one wants to see someone get up and my observations that 90% of the skin See, you need that kind of left of center, that very personal types.

56:07
Working in a partnership with will, what's been the personal learnings for you, because I think like with Tommy and I, we have been two individuals doing our own thing. You know, coming together working on the daily talk show, and then trying to, you know, mold our jewel story, right, and letting go some of our independent stuff. What what's your take on your your, you know, joy, but also, like, you've had you had the that's awesome podcast and things like that was was there a desire sometimes to say, I want to try my own thing? Because, yeah,

56:47
yeah, I mean, I think

56:50
with podcasting, I often think of like doing my own thing, but I think I'm very lazy. It's just other stuff going on. But I find I with that sauce. And that was really, I just wanted to be, it was the most indulgent idea for podcast, I just wanted to create a diary of friends of mine, like, I just want to have long conversations with friends of mine, and just get their take on stuff. And the last interview I did, I did three interviews with my mom, who was had stage four breast cancer at the time. And so I did one with will untie five. And then I did two with her in her last six months of being alive. And the last one I did with it was two months before she passed away. And it was really, it was it's such an amazing, unguarded, honest conversation about death, you know, and, and, you know, it's funny, and it's sad, and she's so brilliant in it, that when I uploaded that episode, I was like, Who the fuck am I going to get on? That? Yeah, like, I think it's like, 37 episodes or something. But, you know, and it had such a huge response, like the people who heard it, were just, they were so moved by it. I kind of is, like, I think, have achieved what I wanted to do with that one. I mean, there's a couple of ideas and kicking around to do like, solo podcast, but I think I want to make it a bit more structured. Yeah.

58:07
What it What is that? Not even advice, but the learning that you've had in doing the job or the team stuff? Because I feel like the stuff that Tommy and I have gone? Sounds

58:19
like I'm doing some kind of lady I

58:24
think the real true really loudly.

58:27
I think there's definitely I think there's, I think what's probably I was even watching one of Rooster Teeth. brands, they have a show called mythical mornings. And they've got there was a episode where the guys basically deconstructed the fact that they're like, they'll receiving feedback from fans around how someone didn't like how Rhett was chatting, talking to link. And there's this whole deconstruction around, like, even though we're being authentic, we're also playing characters, and we're doing this and that. And I feel like whenever you do something on in the public eye, and there's two people there, they're all these things that come along with it, especially when it's with a friendship. Have you had discussions around? This is a bit of gear, this is content or, you know, what has been those those points of learnings about yourself? Because I think it's like, it's an, you have to remove your ego I feel when doing a July realizing that. So even remove your ego, it's realizing that like, your story's not always the funniest story, it's not the best story. And that also that thing of when someone says a great story, my first inclination used to be to be like, I've got a funny story. So how do you reconcile?

59:45
Well, I think, I mean, it helps when you've got one of Australia's best comedians, and then we'll

59:54
know I mean, the great thing about, you know, working with someone like Willie so fastly so quickly, has been doing so long that you don't really have to worry about something getting too slow or boring, or whatever, because he, you know, at any point, he can just pull something out. And I think without really, we don't really discuss stuff like, you know, we don't we we don't have to come with a plan or say, hey, should we talked about this, but instinctively, I feel like the show works best. When I come to the show with something with something I've read with a personal story, or whatever it is, and then we'll be able to pick that apart. And then when he picks it apart, I'm able to respond. That, to me, is the best episodes of TOEFL where you know, we did this in we call it the binge trilogy, we did this entire thing about three episodes in a row where I was getting so annoyed I had my wheelie bin went missing. And I was convinced that my that I was convinced that these these these kids, these teenagers, my streets, stolen it, like I created this entire paranoid and so bringing that in, and then we'll sort of like counseling me through that and then discovering that it wasn't these kids, it was actually you know, my neighbor, and then you know, all this other kind of stuff went on through it. But where was the been? Well, my neighbor just accidentally taken.

1:01:13
I was convinced today's life is teenagers these days, like 80s movie punks, like Philly. But it was just that that's kind of perfectly sums up when this show is cooking really well. It's like, well, you bring in a topic and then it can go into any any direction. I think, you know that. Not that, you know, every show is like your child, you're not going to pick favorites, but I definitely know that the show. For me the show feels like a drags when we are trying to force some thought trying to force humor into something or trying to force something out of it. Like it flows much better when it's just like this. Like I

1:01:54
will say the same thing do you think? I think so. I

1:01:57
mean, yeah, I mean, I feel like also you know, he's one of the hardest working guys in showbiz literally, like he has, you know, he's got to stand up, he's got grown, he's got radio, all this kind of stuff. So he doesn't really have time to prep a whole bunch of material for his fake radio show.

1:02:15
So it's easier if I can, you know, it's a it's probably a relief for him that he can just sit in a chair and then just like snipe know, something and just pick it apart.

1:02:25
what's what's

1:02:27
exciting for you with TOEFL specifically in the coming years, do you think

1:02:31
um, I just think it's the associated product like you know, we sort of felt a couple of years ago or maybe longer time ago that this you know, maybe with a new Hamish name, or something like that, but I think now we've sort of like really settled into know it is what it is like, I hate using the word cult, but I think we have a very niche audience I find it very hard to recommend my own show to people because I just don't know if they're the kind of people who get it yeah I think it

1:02:59
but having a nice you've created a niche

1:03:01
yeah it's yeah it's one of those things where it's like yeah your your niches you guys yeah,

1:03:06
yeah, I mean you're either yeah you're either into what we do or you're not yeah particular brand of whimsy.

1:03:13
So those associated products what do you what do you actually what do you thinking like what do you dream of

1:03:19
your dreams? Haha, I look I mean, probably none that have been explored enough to to articulate here but I think that there there are there we have generated so much content over 200 and whatever episodes and then that seems laughable because

1:03:36
300 and MIMO we're doing it for a year and a bit

1:03:40
10 years episodes, but we recently had an intern just go through and log every episode and episode one just time code everything we've talked about and when I read through it unlike there is a shit ton of stuff here that could be Monde you know if you wanted to like tended to TV show or web series do like a podcast just exploring that. Did you guys hear funding Drago the you know

1:04:07
it's a podcast to Sydney comedians did which is about fanfiction that one of them found a bit of fanfiction about Ivan Drago, you know from rocky for. And it's such an innocuous beginning to a podcast but then exploring who wrote the fan fiction and where it's come from. It was so fantastic. And it's To me that is like, that's the type has hundred of those ideas in its back catalogue. It's now just about, you know, going through it with Giovanni just started to do and reading through all the old kind of time cards man like, okay, is this something in that? You know, maybe we can expand that in some direction? I mean, the great thing is, we have an audience that is very loyal, and and really like everything we do. You know, when we, when we put something out there for them, they step it up really quickly. How do

1:04:55
you pitch things into well?

1:04:58
Just the conversation, like, nothing special?

1:05:01
Or is it do you feel? Because I feel like you were mentioning that these is the hardest working guy in show biz. I guess there's a prioritization game that you probably play where it's like, Okay, what if we've got the show? That's like, the number one thing and sometimes it probably feels like just treading water just

1:05:21
may will has never made himself unavailable. Yeah, like, that's the thing, that's the crazy thing with his schedule is that he'll always find time to do it. Which is, you know, so it hasn't really been a case of like, having to pitch something into him. Like, it's just if he can, if he's got time, then they'll do it. And there's been times where, you know, a lot of the kind of more administrative stuff is down to me now produces, you know, I'll just go off and work things out and then you just present I'll present it to him and say, Okay, well, this is what we're doing. Yay or nay. And yes, the easiest way to get across

1:05:55
Yeah,

1:05:56
I think but the semi like there's so many differences in your partnership. Enjoy. Should I yeah. In terms of the level of sort of breaking down everything we do? I don't know if it would have gained from speaking with the heaps of people is like, there's no really one formula you

1:06:12
know, but that's your fault. So it's not that we need to take someone

1:06:17
exactly bagging.

1:06:22
Tomorrow, you gotta live live show. Yeah. How many live shows? Do you reckon you do a year? Not many. Um, we used to do like one you did

1:06:31
the opera house in which the Opera

1:06:33
House was crazy. How did that happen? Did the Opera House but weren't allowed to mention engine it in any way? Relative? It's part of the Opera House? Do you have to give them $10,000 if you put the Opera House in any of your like, really?

1:06:47
We've actually been the Opera House five times for the show, but we've just never had the 10 grand.

1:06:51
We do want to opera

1:06:55
was definitely not a surprise.

1:06:57
We got Sunday

1:06:58
out to a poster for that show. Opera House show is like a drawing of like will and I hanging from a helicopter above Sydney Harbour with a big sinkhole?

1:07:12
Yeah, we don't need to Sonic the Hedgehog

1:07:15
probably get sued for using we don't think we

1:07:17
did the comedy festival for a few years. And it was always a great fun show. And it's great to bring it other comedians and stuff. But

1:07:23
I think now that podcast is so widespread, there's so many competing for attention. And we just sort of felt like, well, it's not. It's not as special as it used to be. And also I think that, you know, we I think we sit more comfortably with us in a smaller, it's like hip hop. I like seeing hip hop in smaller venues. I've been a guy to be exciting show Music Festival hip hop never translates quite as well. And I feel like, you know, as show is two guys talking and so do you really need thousand people? And that seems like a small audience. Yes, it that much better.

1:07:54
We've thought about doing live shows and stuff. But I mean, we've done mini ones. Do you? What's your going into that? Do you prepare more?

1:08:02
Yeah, well, when we do the live shows, that's 100% May. And I love that, like I will prepare you know, we'll do like a game show and the Opera House was that that has been my favorite so far. Because

1:08:16
at my cow is our producers is a guy whose lives in Portland, Oregon. And the way he came into our shows, he just approached us and said, Hey, you know, I got my own Sound Studio for me to do all your post. And so the joke became that hang on this guy just contacts online. How do we know this is not just like super sophisticated AI, instead of jack became that he was a robot. And so that's been you know, the running joke. So when we did the live show, he's the computer on the website. Yeah,

1:08:41
that little computer icon for

1:08:42
his face. So no one's really saying what he looks like. So when we did the live shot the Opera House, I thought it'd be hilarious too. Because he was he was going to fly out for it. And so I was going to him in the audience of the be hilarious to say to him that have found an Australian girl for him. And then roll out these robot and I want to get Dexter from

1:09:05
but couldn't get Dexter but found these guys in Western Sydney who run like a robot workshop where they're just hobbyists to build robots. And so I got them to build a robot. Turns out my cow couldn't make it out there. So I got Justin Hamilton to voice the robot. So like, you know, we're in the Sydney Opera House and I get them to lower the lights and place and like it sci fi

1:09:30
this robot being remote controlled by some guy off stage and then being voiced by Justin and it was so dumb, it was side down, but it worked really well. And it's kind of like that's my favorite stuff is that it's not so much about what you're doing. It's the spirit in which you're doing it and you're playing to an audience of people who love your stuff. Like it's very hard to have a bad show. It's not like that. gonna stand up audience is going to get arms folded, waiting for you to convince them to laugh like yeah, they're there because they want to they want to be there.

1:10:00
Yeah, your normal location where you live the weed website at Sydney. How often the

1:10:07
location home robot residents. It's coming on stuck in Sydney, how often are you in Melbourne?

1:10:16
Quite a bit this year. I've been doing quite a bit of stuff down here but like Melbourne time that's where I grew up. And I always love coming back here so I try and get down in Melbourne at least half a dozen times

1:10:28
you come back to watch the footy because I know you're

1:10:30
mad thank you yes I will I will come down to what's a football is and kilda football club Ambassador this Yeah, yes, I have some official ambassadorial.

1:10:38
What does that actually mean?

1:10:41
Talk Talk about the club, I guess go to a presidents lunch. Generally, generally just use my influence of status. To promote the club

1:10:52
three Instagram posts a year or

1:10:54
so. Two guys want caps back to

1:10:57
guys come on cups back worse than ever. I mean, completely. Every year we seem to talk about a player has been retired that

1:11:07
he mentioned a while before.

1:11:10
Yeah, that's who I meant.

1:11:16
St. Kilda.

1:11:17
Yes, he did. They did. Of course he didn't know. Nick deed is our longest serving.

1:11:21
And then you had jack

1:11:24
who's a Piper?

1:11:27
I think it was Richmond. Richmond

1:11:31
is really good. Well, it'd be great to have you back on the show because we're going to be doing this for like 10 years is the plan.

1:11:36
Yeah, right. So unless we go to that workshop you didn't they tell us that this is a fucking hobby is a hobby. And what

1:11:43
you guys do you guys do your own accounting? Are you good? Yeah, we do. You got zero. Yeah. Jay, man, since I started getting there. I'm like,

1:11:52
wow, there's a lot of that going.

1:11:54
On. That's a good brand integration. It's just like zero looking after podcast.

1:11:59
You naturally called the books when they're on paper, but there's no cooking the books when you've got nothing.

1:12:03
And also when you've got nothing coming in this way.

1:12:07
Zero really looks like a fact sheet.

1:12:10
Thanks for coming on Charlie's daily talk show. Send us an email at the daily talk. show.com tomorrow's Friday. What are we doing for fat Fridays? Fridays

1:12:18
every every Friday Charlie we a shit food because it's that Friday,

1:12:22
right? What do you have no fucking idea. We're filming you guys too. So really go check out that.

1:12:27
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do that. Right.

1:12:29
So you guys
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