The Art Of Being Dirty With Matt D'Avella

Matt: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's a Daily Talk Show episode 287.

Tommy: Something a bit different today. It's not just the two of us, even though the two of us are right here.

Josh: It's Matt Diavalla live.

Tommy: If I clap my hands, he'll appear.

Josh: Or I can even make a bit of sound effects.

Matt: Oh, I was supposed to clap too. Oh cool, you got the whole crowd there.

Tommy: Yeah, the whole crowd's here, mate. Live shows every day. What's cracking, bro?

Matt: Yeah, this is great, man. We just— we did this last second. You were like 15 minutes ago, hey, do you want to come on the podcast? And I was like, yeah, sure, let me just set up all this gear.

Tommy: It's— what's great is that at the time that we record our show every day, it's like the middle of the day for you. So right now you're in your apartment in LA. What are you up to?

Matt: Yeah, yeah, I'm already drunk. Should be a happy hour now. It's 2:30. It's like midday right now.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: Um, and I was just slacking off and looking for a better way to procrastinate, and you guys gave me the perfect excuse.

Josh: This is, this is perfect. Yeah, this is still a procrastination for us from doing actually any actual work.

Tommy: Yeah, we've got— I've got edits to do after this. But no, it's great. You released a new video 7 hours ago, which won't make any sense to anyone watching this now. The video's out.

Josh: They understand time.

Tommy: Well, 7 hours ago, if you're watching this in 2022, the 7 hours doesn't matter. Search Matt D'Avella, look at his YouTube channel. What's your latest video? It's called?

Matt: It's called "The Other Side of Burnout." Mm. And it is all about burnout. I mean, it's kind of— was a little bit of an exploration and playing around with the idea of hustle. And as you guys know, hustle has been a popular term and it's been a part of culture for a long time. But there's recently been a wave of, like, anti-hustle. And I think if I made this video and even explored this topic 3 months ago, it would have been completely different. But I feel like now that everybody's doing it, everybody's talking about hustle and how it's so shitty, I'm like, I want to kind of come at it from a different angle, and I want to see how can we work hard, but how can we work hard with intention, and how can we prevent burning out?

Tommy: I'll tell you what, the, the local fish and chip owner, Jim, I guess his name is, has been hustling well before it was cool. Hustle is just like the work, the working hard, but now— it's almost like a phrase. I think I've used the term hustle as a way to push through some pain, which I don't think is great.

Josh: Or I'm joking. I'm sort of being a little bit facetious when I say it. Do you find, you know, hustle's now become a thing that everyone's talking about. Minimalism, it's crazy to see how minimalism has spread on YouTube. How's that been for you, Saint? Because you've been doing it for so long, do you get a little bit of a sense of, now I've got to find something new, or does it make you want to produce more content? What's your view on it?

Matt: Well, when I started making videos on YouTube, I didn't exactly— I didn't start really with minimalism. It was more so about creativity and filmmaking and really just an exploration of like, how do I create original content on YouTube? What kind of stuff am I making? And I was talking from experience of being a filmmaker. And then obviously Minimalism: The Documentary was something I had created, and it was something that had connected with people, but I never really thought about telling storeys about it.

Josh: Yeah.

Matt: At the very beginning. And then I just made one video called My Minimalist Apartment that really started to pick up some momentum and people started to— I saw, you know, I think a lot of times when you're creating online, you're waiting for that reaction to see what resonates. And it's not to say that you're gonna bend your ideas to fit within that, But it's when you have an idea of your own or you share something about yourself that seems to connect and resonate and people are watching, it's like, oh, okay, maybe I can do some more with this. And I think, yeah, I think that maybe that's one of the reasons why my channel did well in the beginning was because there weren't a lot of men talking about minimalism on YouTube and they're like, not at least within the high production value, the kind of stuff that I was creating. There's very few. There was Anthony Ongaro with Break the Twitch, but like apart from him, you didn't see a lot of people, a lot of men talking about it. So, I think like there was a combination of a few things that brought a different angle. But now, obviously, with Marie Kondo and the discussion growing to be much bigger, I think it's harder for people to kind of stand out and do something different.

Josh: Yeah. Do you feel that minimalism is the antidote? Is it antidote? Is that how you say it? Antidote? The thing that helps fix burnout? Like, do you— I feel like when I went to— did some filming with the minimalists here in Australia, when people would get up and speak about their minimalism story, it normally starts off with the fact that like shit was like going a bit pear-shaped before they find it.

Matt: Yeah, and I think that, you know, minimalism and intentionality can help you focus on what's important and maybe figuring out when you take things too far and burn out. But it's also— it can be difficult to kind of separate the noise between what's real. And Nat and I were just talking about this, where intention is now a buzzword, like, and trying— being intentional with your decisions. And it's, it's true, like, we should be thoughtful about the things that we're doing, but sometimes it's hard.

Tommy: Matt, I just want to interrupt. It's actually Josh's word for this year: intentional consumption.

Josh: Intentional consumption, which probably you could argue that me eating chocolate. We had to put the show on hold for an extra 2 minutes while I slammed a piece of chocolate. So I may be not nailing it, but yeah, it does feel like if you add intentional to everything, yeah, it's okay.

Tommy: Intentional.

Matt: Yeah, it's not wrong, it's not wrong, it's good to be intentional. But sometimes it's— I mean, I find my— I do some— I did like 3, 4 interviews last week and I just found myself just spitting platitudes, and I'm like, what am I doing? I'm like, I'm like doing such cliché responses. I'm like no better than talking about corporate synergy in the workplace.

Josh: So what was the— what's the edit process like for this latest one on burnout? Jason Zook is a great story. Did you start with having Jason as like the key point, or do you sort of film him and then be like, oh, that was actually a fucking great interview?

Matt: Yeah, so specifically this video and the interview, it's interesting how it all came about because I initially intended to do a video around the hustle bro, like the hustle mentality. And it stemmed from my first podcast I ever did with Jason, who I had since become friends with. He mentioned hustle bro and he mentioned having the hustle shirt and the hustle mug and just being all about the hustle. And then it led to his burnout. Like the fact that he made 800+ videos day after day after day, it just became too much for him. So I was like, well, that's— it's an amazing story. The perspective he had from a really creative and unique company that he built, which was he wore a new shirt every day with a brand on it, and those brands paid him to wear it. Every day he increased the price by a dollar, eventually expanded the business from one t-shirt wearer himself to 5 t-shirt wearers. It's just like a really Silly idea.

Josh: Mini North Korea.

Tommy: It's actually— Josh has actually done the opposite, wears the same t-shirt every day and doesn't get paid.

Josh: It doesn't get paid. It costs me a lot in the t-shirts. It's a bit of a nightmare.

Matt: That's what somebody said in the comments. They said, imagine, uh, how much do you think Matt would have to get paid to wear a branded t-shirt? I'll just do it once and I'll make the same amount of money that Jason did in 5 years. I don't think that would actually happen, but, um, so yeah, he ended up making like a lot of money, but he ended up in $100,000 in in debt, 50 pounds overweight, completely burnt out, tapped out, and he decided to quit. So I was like, oh, this would be cool to kind of tell that storey and then interview Gary Vee and then make really a documentary about it, 20 minutes, maybe a little bit longer, trying to like expand upon what I'm creating on YouTube and maybe not what you might expect from a YouTube video. But it was, you know, the scheduling of my Gary Vee interview got cancelled and then—

Josh: Fucking hustling.

Matt: Yeah, I hustled as hard as I could.

Tommy: Matt, I was thinking about humans. We all want— we all thrive off some struggle to push us beyond our sort of capabilities now to where we want to go. And it's like the— I listen to Jason's story, and if you just take some of the pieces, his is unique for himself, but the, the sort of hustling or the, the working really, really hard and not knowing what you're in it for, to then realising that there's this moment where everything's falling around you and you make this shift to find this great passionate project that you're working on. Some of my friends who are successful, they've got a similar storey where they had that moment. Is it like, do we actually need it though? Like, do we need to sort of be so off to then be overcorrected? It's like what's going on in politics. It's like, or, you know, PC culture. It's like we are being overcorrected in some ways and it should come back. Do we need that with— like, is burnout a necessity?

Josh: Did you have to be in $97,400 worth of debt to be able to then be— yeah.

Matt: No, I don't think so. I think like just 9,000 would have been fine. Like, hey, like 9,700 would be great. But, you know, I think that it's just everybody's circumstance is different, and I think that, uh, everybody's experience with burnout is different. I, I do think that for people who are ambitious and who really love what they do, I don't think it's a question. I think that you're probably going to come up against some kind of burnout. You're going to be swayed towards this, to be being a workaholic, just because you love it so much. It's hard to really define those those boundaries. And that's kind of one of the takeaways in the video was that you should actually set up rules for yourself. And Natalie, when we first started dating, like, she thought I was very Type A, which I kind of am. And she was like, oh, like, you have to have rules for everything, like no screens in bed or, you know, email once, once a day for an hour. And I just found I'm not very disciplined. Like, I will— if there's snacks on the counter, I will eat them. So I need to set up rules and I need to make sure that I get them completely out of the house so then I don't eat them. And the same thing with my, my work life. I have to be pretty regimented to make sure that things don't fall out of balance. And I'm not working when Natalie comes home. I'm not working really late at night or on weekends. It's very easy for just this one time, just this one Saturday or Sunday to turn into every single weekend. And then that's when burnout happens. It creeps up on you. And oftentimes it happens because you are passionate about something.

Josh: I felt slightly responsible possible when you started doing the no sugar video? Because I specifically remember us shovelling Krispy Kreme doughnuts into your mouth before my flight and when we're in Sydney.

Tommy: Yeah, and then you were going into doing the no sugar.

Josh: Yeah, and then you're straight into that. Was the— do you find that the travel— do you just— how much do you have to keep in regards to no screen time in bed versus, ah, well, I'm in a new bed, it's not this bed, the rule is my normal bed?

Matt: No, yeah, you know, I break rules all the time and that's why sometimes I find it hard and I try to give like a preface in all my videos that like these are like rules that I try to follow. But I mean, it doesn't mean I follow every single one and when I cheque email for an hour a day or I make sure it's all scheduled in, sometimes I'll fall back and even I planned on doing just one cheat meal with sugar in it or like high levels of sugar in it per week versus just consuming it a lot and then I actually For the video, my "I Quit Sugar for 30 Days" video, I bought cookies and I bought all this stuff for the video to shoot, right? Like I had to shoot B-roll of me like eating cookies and, you know, grabbing cereal. And so then I shot that actually towards the end of it, like probably like a day or two after the 30-day challenge. And they were still in my house and I was like, "I guess I'll just eat them." So then for the next couple days, I'm just like chowing down on cookies because of the video I made about quitting sugar. But yeah, with travel, I mean, it's very difficult when you're at somebody's house and there's snacks displayed out for the guests. How do you say no to that? It's rude. It's rude not to, I think.

Tommy: So burnout for someone who's actually having a level of success— so for Jason, you know, I guess let's move it away from Jason. Maybe someone who has a big business that's making heaps of money but they're burnt out. It's like, so the success equation is there they're burnt out. What about for the person that isn't successful, hasn't made all the money or built the audience, but they're burnt out? It's a hard one to go, do I actually quit now, or do I just pull my foot off the gas because it's not working? Maybe it's the dip.

Josh: Maybe it's like, as Seth Godin says, the dip, right? Like, this is the final— which I guess can enable bad habits, which is like, I'm in so much pain right now, but but I think that this is the pain that's going to get me the success.

Tommy: So how do you work out when it is the time that you should actually pull the pin on something, and when it's— or you're just in burnout? Or when do you have to— when should you stay in burnout? Maybe that's a bit—

Matt: yeah, yeah, actually. So I mean, I think that there are moments where we're hugging that line and we're sprinting towards something. Like, I see it as just a mindset, a sprint mindset. So if I have a deadline for a documentary, I'm going to be working 10, 12 hours a day. I'm going to be working working more weekends than I would. I'm gonna be skipping the gym more often than I would, which will lead to the feeling of burnout or, you know, even burnout if I push it for too long. But the idea is knowing when to slow down. So for the film, when the film's complete. And it's not to like just grab the next film and just start again and put yourself back into that same position, which is unsustainable. Because during those times, your priorities have shifted and your main priority is finishing this project, or getting your business off the ground, making it sustainable. It may be a specific salary that you're aiming for where you're actually making a full-time living as a creative, but you need to actually understand when to pump the brakes, when to take your foot off the gas. And you— I think that you do that by clearly defining it. And sometimes, yeah, you're right. Like there's an intuition to it and you could actually be in a project or a pursuit that isn't going to turn into or materialise into something, and you need to shift your focus.

Josh: Yeah, talking shifting focus, you're shifting what you're doing with The Ground Up Show. What's— what was your thought process on that? So we were on, uh, late last year on The Ground Up Show, and you were filming every single episode, and that was a big sort of— I remember early days, that was a big part of it, a differentiating factor for you, which was, I'm doing this primo video, what sort of, what was the learning through all of that?

Matt: Yeah, and I like convinced you guys to do video and then I was like, all right guys, I'm done with video.

Josh: It's like, hey guys, you really shouldn't be eating meat, you gotta go vegan, and then you fucking opened a barbecue shop.

Tommy: All you can eat.

Matt: Yeah, yeah. So, uh, you know, it was really thinking about my time, thinking about the pieces of content that I create, what was really resonating And the fact that I wanted to start to create more documentary-style pieces on my YouTube channel, and I didn't want it to always feel like, hey, it's Matt from my apartment. You know, I'm the minimalist talking about like I'm in my closet showing you my clothes, like kind of generic YouTube-type content. And I wanted to push it more and more into documentary style, which would be interviewing people. But then there was a dilemma, right, of do I get them on the podcast or do I ask them to come on my YouTube channel? And it's much more likely somebody would come on my YouTube channel specifically for an interview for a film that I'm making because it's going to get a lot more exposure than the YouTube channel. And I think that there's something to be said like, yeah, I could like interview with these mics and do this big thing. But I felt like there's a difference between setting up for an interview that would be in a film and obviously setting up a podcast. And I wanted to focus more and more on creating really great films.

Josh: Yeah.

Matt: And then on top of that, it's like I've done 100 interviews and met a lot of really great people. Not a big fan of meeting that many people. Like, there were probably a dozen or two that I really connected with, and I'm like, hey, these people could be friends with. The rest I found very interesting, and then I learned a lot from them. But I was like, I think with the next phase of the podcast, I'd rather deepen my connection with people that I've already met because It's oftentimes when you're doing a podcast and you're doing it in interview-based format, it's seeking the next big interview, the next interview, you know what I mean? That's what brings people in. And I was like, I just want to have fun with it. And I want it to be something that I'm doing for myself. So I said, I'm just going to make it more casual. I'm going to strip away the video. I'm going to be able to do remote podcasts. And that's the current thinking of when I come back after this next break.

Tommy: Do you think it would have been possible to build the audience you have by doing it the way you're now going to be doing it?

Matt: No, I wouldn't change what I did and how I went about doing it because I think that doing the podcast through video, landing a couple of big guests early on and having people share these videos that I made, I would basically create 3 to 4, sometimes up to 8 or 9 teasers for some of the podcasts that I did and send them to my guests so then they could share it with their audience. And when they did have a big audience, that's like, I think, how I got the, you know, my first few thousand subscribers, my first few thousand listeners to the podcast. So I think it was, was helpful to have the video aspect to it because it's such a great promotion and marketing tool.

Tommy: Is it stuff making sense for you now? Like, I'll give you— I'll preface that question. Josh and I look at what we're doing, there's so much ambiguity, and we don't know where we'll end up. We kind of have a destination we're going, goals we're setting, things we're sort of ticking off as we go, but it's— it doesn't quite make sense to us now. You've built the audience, is it making any more sense?

Josh: Are we ever going to make money from this, D'Vale, or are we fucked?

Matt: Um, yes and no. I mean I think that I'm filled with just as much doubt as when, like, I had maybe 50,000 subscribers. I think 50,000 for me was like a huge— I mean, even 15, it was just like a huge turning point and like, oh wow, people are listening. This is amazing. And then— but I think you're still filled with the same questions, the same kind of doubt, and you continually have to shape and evolve the stuff that you're making. And I think sometimes if it's not making— if it's not sticking or it's making an impact, it's either because you haven't been doing it long enough and your audience hasn't found you, or it's because you actually need to change something and you need to do something a little bit differently. And I think the figuring out which of those, if not both, uh, I think that's when you need to just kind of like follow your intuition and your gut with where you, you think it should go.

Tommy: Yeah, I think he's saying we should stop doing what we're doing. Yeah, final episode with Matt D.

Josh: Yeah, going out on a high. Um, what's been the, um, you know, like, you have, have done a feature-length doco, you know, sold it to Netflix, something that a lot of creators only dream of. Do you think that having moved towards YouTube and doing the smaller docos, are a lot of creators overly obsessed with the feature-length format? I know personally I'm like, fucking, I want to make a feature film and I'm not going to be happy until— and I see it happening a lot What's your take?

Tommy: He's nailing his Instagram stories, though.

Josh: So, yeah, exactly.

Tommy: You're on your way, right?

Matt: Yeah. I mean, I've been asking that question of myself a lot. I mean, what is it? What does it matter if you're making an impact? If like, what's the difference between a view on Joe Rogan's podcast and a view on a documentary or a special on Netflix? You know, if each get the same amount of viewership and make the same amount of impact. What are we— what are we worried about? Yeah, I see a good challenge in creating a feature-length documentary. I think you can, you know, I think that there's kind of a movement that was created around minimalism. It was already there, it was already happening, but I think that helped to facilitate some more conversation around it. It kind of feels more like a tangible thing, like, oh, have you seen that thing? Versus, oh, do you listen to this and this show? Which is more a little bit more fluid. So I see the value in it. I see as a creator why it's something that's— that you would want to do because it's very ambitious. It feels like a big accomplishment to do it. And I am— I am happy that I've done it and I'm going to be doing it again in the future. But I think it's like, you know, whether that has to be on Netflix or Hulu or if it's on YouTube and it's a series and it's like 4 20-minute episodes or whatever. I think that that should be thought out in advance. And I think if you're trying to make a feature-length documentary, it's way easier to do that and to sell it and to make it sustainable if you start with an audience, whether that's yours or somebody that you're partnering with.

Tommy: I mean, maybe if you've, you've got the goal of, I want a Netflix documentary, if you get it on Stan—

Josh: you've got— it's an Australian—

Tommy: it's an Australian one. Do you have Stan over there?

Josh: No, they don't have Stan. Hulu? They've got Hulu. Hulu's just— who loses?

Tommy: Amazon. So if you got it on one of these others, it's like, yeah, I guess it's having the goal. If you get sort of halfway there or quarter of the way there, three-quarters of the way there, you've, you've done something. Yeah.

Josh: So maybe it's also the point, right? Like, what is the— if the— if you're seeking to get a podcast or you're seeking to have a feature film or you're seeking to have a YouTube channel, a lot of kids, I guess, when they're young they all want to become YouTubers. But what does that actually mean? There's a difference between being a celebrity, um, and being an actor, right? And so it's like actually working out what the specifics are. If you want to be connecting with people, if you like entertaining, if you like talking, that could be a reason.

Matt: Yeah, yeah. I think that you need to find meaning like internally, like the act of creating something, the act of making something or participating in an organisation, like that needs to be greater than the need for external validation or reward. People, whether it's money or it's people who admire your work, the external stuff, I think, is far less important. It's necessary in order to make a living doing it, obviously, but it's not necessary if you want to keep something going and if you want to actually find happiness.

Josh: Is it harder to communicate to people you know, you're at a party, you're describing what you do. Do you say that you create content? What's sort of the elevator pitch for—

Matt: Yeah, you know what, Nat and I, we were watching The Bachelor the other night. I don't know if you guys watch The Bachelor.

Josh: Definitely not the American version.

Matt: It's very— Neither do I. Neither do I.

Josh: That's super lame. Fuck you.

Matt: No, she's got me into it, and now I've got to watch the Australian version and the American version. It's nonstop. They go back to back.

Josh: So that's your job now? "Is that what it is?

Matt: That sounds like a full-time job." Yeah, it's basically a full-time job, yeah. And it's all internal reward, too. Um, but I will— Yeah, so we were watching it, and then there was this chick on there, one of the girls, the contestants on the show, and she— Her job said "content creator." And then I'm like, "All right, what does this bitch do?" And then I look it up, and she doesn't do anything. She just takes photos of herself. She's like an influencer model. Yeah, I mean, you're not a content creator. That's like, doesn't count as content. Yeah, and I just, you know, that's the best thing about watching this show is this is shit on everybody. You say the meanest things that you would never say to somebody's face, and then just kind of talk about how the producers are just manipulating the entire show to make people say things. But, you know, yeah, I was kind of upset that they called her a content creator. So I, I mean, and I, yeah, I'm a content— she was not a content creator.

Tommy: No, but then, you know, Dan Bilzerian I don't. The dude every girlfriend hates their boyfriend following.

Josh: Oh really, why?

Tommy: He's that dude that lives in LA, one of the most expensive houses.

Josh: He's the poker player.

Tommy: He's a poker player, owns a weed business.

Matt: He's— oh, not that guy.

Tommy: Has a lot of money and he is a pig with women. Anyway, he put out a tweet. He's like, if one of these fucking Instagram models with over 200,000 followers refers to themselves as a brand again, I'm going to jump off the roof.

Josh: I mean, it's coming from him as well though, but he's—

Tommy: but he is, he's— he has a brand.

Josh: But that's what's interesting, like the content creator, like it's, it's, uh, that's why I guess we can't get stuck in the labels. Like we can't, we can't say them as much as, you know, because we identify the fact that anyone can be a content creator, anyone can be all these sorts of things. So, you need to then look a bit deeper and say, "Okay, well, what am I actually trying to do?" Just makes it hard to answer that question when people ask that.

Tommy: I'm doubling down on videography.

Josh: Videographer.

Matt: Yeah, I honestly think that if all you're doing is posting pretty photos of yourself, like apart from photographers, of course, but if it's just like selfies or you're always thinking about how to frame the next shot to see how many likes you're going to get. And you're essentially an influencer, I, I think that that has to come with a certain level of emptiness, and there you need to find some other meaning in it besides just promoting products.

Josh: Yeah, living sponsorships, living with Nat, she's obviously got a full-time job, an employee. When she sees what you're doing, do you, um, what's the conversations around that? I know that especially like early days with Bree and I, we had such different sort of work experiences. Is there stuff that you take from what Nat's doing? And does Nat take stuff that you're doing?

Matt: Yeah, I have way less drama in my life than she does. I mean, I don't have any employees. I, you know, have few collaborators. But for the most part, my work is up to myself. And there are things that could be stressful, like, oh, that interview got cancelled that I was supposed to do tomorrow, like, uh-oh. But like, Natalie, like, in my head when she's telling me about her day, I'm like, I don't know any of the faces, but I just know names. And I see like a chart of like lines and names and like this person did this thing. And then I have to like trace it back to 8 other storeys she's told me in the past about how there's like this corporate structure. And, uh, it's— dude, it is way more complicated. It sounds way more stressful and there's way more drama than my life. And then like, so she'll go on this rant for like 30, 40 minutes. And then she'll ask me how my day was and I was like, it was pretty good. I made a sandwich at lunch and then I went to the gym and that's about my day. Like nothing interesting happens, but I think that I'm happy, like I'm happy that my life is relatively boring. There are moments that are very interesting and exciting, but for the most part, the day-to-day is quite boring.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, this is the most exciting thing about your day today, right, Matt?

Matt: Yeah. I'm like, actually, you know what's crazy? I just, This is exciting. I don't want to downplay the rock.

Josh: It's just not my door.

Matt: But I got this guy, uh, uh, Johan Hari. He's gonna be on Joe Rogan's podcast tomorrow, and then I just lined him up for after Rogan. Can you believe that?

Josh: I think—

Tommy: and just—

Matt: is that insane?

Tommy: Rogan's in the Valley, then he's coming back to Hollywood to your joint.

Matt: Yeah.

Josh: What?

Matt: Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. I did, um, I was listening to Sam Harris podcast this morning, and it was about addiction and depression and connection and finding meaning. And then halfway through the podcast, I was like, oh, this guy sounds awesome. Like, he sounds like somebody who I'd love to interview for my YouTube channel. So I paused the podcast, I sent him an email, and then he's from the UK. So I was like, oh, maybe in like months we'll be able to put it together. And then I got an email back within 30 minutes. He's like, I'm in LA. Like, call me at this, call me my WhatsApp number. So I called him and then we ended up linking up. And then he's like, yeah, I'm doing Rogan tomorrow. I'm doing like all these like big famous people. And I'm like, why would you do—

Josh: that's amazing.

Tommy: And how much, how much easier has it got since nearly having the million subscribers? Like, are you— do you lead with it? Or I could imagine you're the dude that doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't.

Matt: You put that in the subject.

Tommy: You do.

Matt: Like, I mean, I— it helps a lot. Like, because I used to— if you look at some of my old emails, and I still have like templates of what I used to send people if I was trying to get them on the podcast. And I think my leading line was just about directing Minimalism because I think that helped if people had heard about it, having Netflix attached to me and one of my projects.

Josh: What was it before that? Before Minimalism? Was it like I filmed—

Tommy: I was once— They tried to sue me. They tried to sue me.

Josh: The suing weren't very good. Any famous bar mitzvahs?

Matt: You don't lead with, "I got sued for $7 million." What was it?

Josh: Do you remember the early days what you were sort of selling?

Matt: It was different projects. I mean, I was doing freelance projects for the most part, so I didn't have to like sell— I, you know, I had to sell in clients, but I wouldn't ever really do cold emails in the same way. But we did— when we did Minimalism, we had Josh and Ryan attached to the project, so obviously them having a large audience helped. But we also created a teaser for the film, which was just simply high quality, maybe a minute and a half voiceover with some B-roll explaining the concept of the film. And I think now that the quality of that probably wouldn't have sold many people at the time, I think the quality was pretty good. Now it's— there's, there's many more filmmakers and you could do more with stock footage than, than what we did. Uh, you could do more in like an hour than what we did in a week. But anyway, it was like having this high-quality teaser that we could send around that people, people would understand, oh, okay, this is like an actual production. They're not just going to show up with their Sony Handycam or their flip phone to record this thing.

Tommy: I used to copy and paste a radio person's signature and put in my name, the title of what I gave myself, Roving Reporter, and I'd send it from my personal tommy@tommyjacket.com.

Josh: Having your own .com has cut through.

Tommy: It does help. I just think it's a level of credibility, but I was very much scraping the barrel trying to get things across the line.

Matt: Yeah, it's like you get way less responses. It's funny, now I've gotten a couple people who like maybe didn't respond to me who— oh, I'm just seeing this now. Yeah, yeah, the Twitter DMs, and it's like me being desperate 2 years ago trying to get them on my podcast. Um, so yeah, it has helped a lot. Like now I will lead with like usually like interview with audience of like 900,000 subscribers or whatever. And that's based on some templates of other people that I've seen do it. I— it makes me feel a little bit dirty, but you know, being dirty is okay every once in a while. Like if it works, it works. If it gets the person that you want to be interviewed, uh, then I think that makes sense. Obviously for people like Joe Rogan It just, you just say interview with Joe Rogan, like you don't need to actually boast the numbers because people already know.

Josh: It doesn't have to be dirty. I think that's a good life lesson, though. It's okay to be dirty sometimes if it gets the outcome you want.

Matt: Yeah, it's like the delicate art of being dirty. I like that. That's gonna be my next video.

Tommy: Yeah, that is. What is your next video coming out? What is it, every Tuesday?

Matt: Every Tuesday. Yeah, you know what? I actually, this is based on Natalie's feedback, but I woke up one Monday just like kind of stressed just because I'm like, man, I am doing— like, it sucks that I made my deadline for every week Monday. Like, every Monday I have to make a video, which means that oftentimes I'm running behind, and then that means I have to be doing work on Sundays, and then I'm working all through Monday to finish this video. And Nat was like, yeah, it's too bad you did that. You should have just did it— made the release date Tuesday. And you're like, yeah, yeah, maybe I should do that. I don't know why I just never thought of it. You know what I mean? Like, you get in this routine where you're like, I gotta do it. Monday is when I said I'm gonna do it. So then 2, 3 weeks ago I changed it to Tuesdays and then it's just one of those lessons that you have to teach yourself that you can change things and not to be so rigid with it. And that has helped me my peace of mind a lot. Like it's weird. It's not like I've gotten any more time in my week, but I feel like now that I have this extra day before I release it, an extra workday before I release it, it just gives me a little bit more room to create and it means that I'm not gonna be burning out working on weekends.

Josh: Do you schedule just fucking around and just being really unproductive?

Matt: What do you mean?

Josh: Like, do you give yourself every Wednesday, I'm gonna just do nothing?

Tommy: Is that today? It's Wednesday here.

Josh: No, it's Tuesday.

Tommy: Yeah, it's Tuesday where you are.

Matt: I try not to schedule a lot of stuff. I try not to do a lot of stuff. Most of my days, like, if people saw my calendar, it would just be largely empty. And like, like, it's— I mean, last week it was an exception. I did like 3 podcast interviews, and I did a couple other interviews, and, you know, worked on videos and a lot of stuff, and did brunch and whatever. But for the most part, I like to keep my days completely open, and it takes a lot of discipline. And also, it just really takes caring about what you're doing. Like, I really love making films, so I have like a short to-do list of projects I'm currently working on. So I'll just get started and I know what I need to do. But yeah, for the most part, I don't have like a whole lot of— I don't have scheduled don't-do-anything time. But I do sometimes, like this morning, it's just weird how I just decided to listen to a Sam Harris podcast episode from a couple of weeks ago, and then that just completely changed the rest of my week.

Josh: What's some creators that you're enjoying consuming at the moment?

Matt: I do like Sam Harris. I like— Joe Rogan. I've been listening to their podcast quite a bit. There's this like— I, I'm kind of interested in politics. It's like, it's like popcorn these days. It's just always there's something crazy happening and I get sucked into it a little bit too much, like going on CNN and checking out the news. And there's this journal, independent journalist called Tim Pool, who I found through Joe Rogan and through the whole Patreon kind of censorship controversy. And they— Joe Rogan and Sam Harris recently had Jack Dorsey on their podcast, who is the CEO and founder of Twitter. And there was this huge controversy. It was like just because of the censorship that Twitter has followed through with in the past. So I was just kind of like educating myself on censorship and everything that was going down. So I've been following Tim Pool a lot, but I don't like to get into politics publicly just because I'm like an idiot and I don't know what I'm talking about. I just find it interesting.

Tommy: There's plenty of idiots talking about politics.

Josh: Weeks.

Matt: Yeah.

Tommy: And it's like you're signing up for something, right? Like, you can tell the, the whirlwind of publicity around that, um, Jack Dorsey and Joe Rogan interview. And you can— it definitely filters in. He seems like a thick-skinned kind of dude. Joe Rogan pretty much is a silverback gorilla in my head. Yeah, you know, like big, stronger. But you can see, I reckon there was— it rattles.

Josh: Yeah, we're all babies.

Tommy: Yeah, we're all, we're all human.

Josh: We're all little babies.

Tommy: You can tell that you are rattled just from something like that. So imagine opening the mic every day talking about serious shit.

Josh: Could you imagine? So, Diavella, we're looking at, um, this year starting to do live streams for all the videos. Do you— how do you think you would have gone doing ground-up live, and how would that— how would it change the content, do you think?

Matt: I like live because then it, it pre-filters yourself, uh, in a way that's probably good like to not say something stupid that's going to get you in trouble. But then also knowing that, oh, okay, I'm done with this. Once we like that, for me, the best part about it is like you record it and then you upload it and then you're done, which is, I mean, close to what you guys do. You don't do any editing. So I, the problem with me shooting and editing and doing everything is that I'm a perfectionist and I would bring it in. And even though I didn't plan on making any edits, I'm like, oh, well, I'll take out that, um, And I'll take out that awkward pause and I'll take out this. And then you just end up working on it for way longer than you'd expect. Yeah, I do. And I think what's great about like Joe Rogan's too, like, or doing a live stream, is that even when you're doing interviews, everybody knows it. And it's like, even if somebody didn't sign a release form, it doesn't matter because the thing was released, it was made and it was put out there. And sometimes it's like, well, what if you have a weird or awkward interview? And then the person's like, I don't want it to go out anymore, which fair enough. I mean, if somebody did that, if I did an interview with somebody—

Josh: Did you lose any based on that? Had you had anyone say, hey, can we not publish this interview?

Matt: No, but there have been a couple, one specifically where I was like, I shouldn't post this. And I was like, nah, screw it, I'll post it. And I'm glad I did. I'm glad I put it out there. I think it was a learning lesson for me going into the episode, which I won't mention which one it was. But it was just like being in a conversation with somebody who you do not see eye to eye with. And I'm not confrontational, but I also— but I'm like, I have a service to my audience to not bullshit. And I think that's, that's in part actually why I wanted to change the podcast too, is because there's too much bullshit online. There's too much fake self-help gurus and people who are just being phoney influencers. And I just wanted to be my— to be myself. And sometimes I find myself in conversations with people where I'm just being polite or I'm being nice or it's just a little bit boring. And I'm like, I'd rather just be able to have conversations like the one we're having right now, where you can kind of drop your guard a little bit and you can go deeper into topics than you otherwise could if it's just somebody you're meeting for the first time.

Tommy: So you're going to be editing your new podcast? Or your new podcast format?

Matt: No, the plan— so the plan is to actually link them pretty closely to my YouTube videos. So similar to what we did today, it's like talking about burnout and maybe exploring that further, but also just talking about random stuff. It would be, hey, the video— this is the video that we covered this week, or the topic. And then I would— people would also know at the end of the video on YouTube, I would say, you know, leave a comment and we'll talk. We'll like bring our favourite comments into the podcast. So then that way I can— we can maybe answer people's questions on the podcast, discuss the topic further. Understand that I make a video 8 minutes about something. Obviously you can't cover every single category. Obviously it's very edited and thought out, but maybe we can just have this be like an informal amendment or an additional— an add-on to the videos to talk about these ideas a little bit further.

Tommy: I was thinking doing a segment you could talk about the comments that come up in your videos, but you're like, yours are so good, like people are so nice about your videos. I was watching a YouTuber, Ben Brown, who had a bit of a breakdown, or maybe a breakthrough, depending.

Josh: I'm sure he says he's now woke.

Tommy: Yeah, he says he's woke, but he was like a daily vlogger before it was kind of cool. He— I was a big fan of his but then he broke his elbow and sort of has had this life-changing experience.

Josh: Isn't that the weird thing though, that it was breaking the elbow and then all of a sudden he's like wearing these quirky sunglasses and like changed his whole thing.

Tommy: But dude, his comment section, savage.

Josh: Well, people are just— I think part of it is because he's had a complete transformation in who he is. Yeah. And so people are sort of like, hey man, I loved you so much and you've really helped me. And I just wanted to say my piece before I unsubscribe.

Tommy: I actually read that. I read that exact comment. But he's a dude who's, who's openly said he's burnt out.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And he was posting a video every day and they were edited and filmed nicely. But it's interesting, like, the, the shift from being burnt out to— it's almost like you build this persona or you build a character that people are relying on and then you decide to change. Yeah, well, it breaks. Fucking elbow does it.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. It turns out the whole personality was sitting in his funny bone.

Matt: It was a kill his elbow.

Tommy: He's lost his funny bone. He's a lot more serious.

Josh: Yeah, he's very serious. What do you think?

Matt: Yeah, I mean, but who knows? Maybe like the guy, maybe it wasn't the elbow. Maybe it was just he wasn't being himself on camera. And I think sometimes people fall into that trap where they find something that works. I mean, people put on a personality all the time on camera. I think it's something that people have trouble overcoming. There's that difficulty even for me, like early videos you look at, it's a little bit more contrived. It's a little bit more like, hey everybody, what's going on? Welcome to my video.

Josh: What's up guys?

Matt: What's up guys? And then people do that. Stand-up comedians struggle with that. I mean, obviously stand-up, 99% of it's scripted, but the whole goal is to be yourself on stage. Stage, or at least give the impression that you're being yourself. And I think that's probably something that's, that's really difficult for people to do, especially if they're facing burnout. You're like, I can't even put on a fake face anymore.

Tommy: Yeah, your video where you took your dad to the steak restaurant, I mean, it's pretty generous for taking a mattress off your hands.

Josh: I've not seen it.

Tommy: I watched it recently, it's great. But you can tell that, like, now knowing you, you're you're you, but you have a level of confidence now that is complementary to your personality. Whereas I think maybe some people's confidence isn't complementary to the personality. So when you meet them, they're like, hey, but then they're like, hey bro.

Josh: Like, that's like comedians a lot of times that you would see, like, uh, especially working in radio, you'd see them in studio, you know, behind the microphone, and then you'll see them afterwards.

Tommy: I think maybe in the olden days maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago, before YouTube and before it was accessible to be just posting constantly in the streams, you know, we're coming through from everyone. Maybe it was more accepted then because now there's a transparency between like platforms, you know, you can cheque what you're doing. I think you get a real good sense of a human, so it's harder to be the confident and incongruent with that personality.

Josh: It's harder to be that person. Like show business, right?

Matt: It's like, are you in show You know, the one thing that I don't think a lot of people do is you need to shape the content the way you tell a storey to your personality and not the other way around. So a lot of people obviously see templates from Tony Robbins to Gary Vaynerchuk to Casey Neistat, and they say, I have to recreate what they're doing because maybe that's why they got successful, or maybe that's the only template that I've seen. Seen, uh, and I, I find it to be interesting. But then if you look at people like Mango Street, great YouTubers, they're introverted, they're more quiet, but then they tell storeys in a different way. They don't just like turn on the camera and just start talking. They're very thoughtful about how they tell a story. They do a lot of voiceovers and, and B-roll. Sometimes they don't even show themselves on camera. Uh, and like maybe you, you could even see that for a lot of gamers and other people who maybe don't show themselves on camera. Like If you're shy or your personality isn't as loud, there's ways that you can shape the content to make it make sense.

Josh: Do you have any tells that you're about to— you're heading towards either burnout or you're struggling? What is it for you? What do you do?

Tommy: It's when he's falling towards hitting his elbow.

Matt: He's like, "No!" Yeah, well, I could say that I was heading towards burnout at the end of last year. It was, I mean, because sometimes it's not as easy as I've got a documentary to make or I've got a book to write and this is the deadline. Because for me it was, I want to be an original content creator online. I want to make a living making original videos. And A, okay, what's the salary? When do you actually slow down? And then B, am I going to make it? Like, is this actually going to work? So it was you know, I worked at it for 2 years. It was about a year and a few months in, maybe like 15 months into when I started, that things started to build momentum. And then you— it's that, like, that's how long I was sprinting for it. And like, not all out, like, I wasn't— it wasn't working every single weekend, 20 hours a day, getting no sleep. I still had quite a bit of balance, but like, the edges started to blur and I was working more weekends. And even after I did start to make an income from it, I'm like, why am I still grinding? Why am I still, you know, I haven't, I'm making enough money now. Why am I still working on Sundays every single weekend, all these nights? Why am I maybe giving up the gym this month or, or going to the gym much less than I would have? So that was just a moment where I was like, and, and then heading into like a vacation where I had to take a couple weeks off to be in Australia. I'm like, how do I possibly take a break and take time off if I'm just nonstop working and I'm always feeling like I'm behind? So then it meant just taking a week off, which shouldn't be that crazy. But like, I mean, for people who are like creating content online, you'll oftentimes create 3 to 4 videos to last you when you're on a break, when you're taking like a vacation. So then you would have to work like 3, 4 times as hard. That's when you end up putting in all these crazy hours.

Josh: You're leaning into the burnout. You're heading to the sprint, if you didn't have a holiday in that week, it probably would have come completely to burnout territory, right?

Matt: Yeah. And I think it was— the video was just an excuse. I was like, oh, here's a simple video I can make. It's like about something I'm going through right now. And then I actually, for whatever crazy reason, I didn't think I was going to take a break after I made that video. And then people in the comments were like, oh, enjoy the break, Matt. We'll see you soon. And I'm like, what? I'm allowed to take a break?

Josh: This is amazing.

Matt: I took the next week off and then I came back and then everything was fine.

Tommy: Hey dude, uh, I just wanted to— I haven't spoken to you. I wanted to get an update, uh, on how your sunburn was from the Australian sun when we were sitting at the office.

Matt: I still have it. I mean, I don't know, you guys can't— can you see my video? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's still kind of there.

Josh: No, it's looking great. It's gone to ridiculous.

Matt: But, uh, you know, it's still there. I think my sister saw it the other day and she's like, what the hell? Like How are you still, uh, how do you still have a farmer's tan from that? But yeah, you guys screwed me. I didn't know we were going to the beach.

Josh: I nearly lost my nose from that.

Matt: Yeah, and we were— you were like, oh, let's do another one outside.

Josh: So yeah, I have no— yeah.

Tommy: Oh yeah, earlier this week in Melbourne, it was that same sun. You could just feel it was like UV, bad UV level. Yeah, it's, uh, well, great to hear that you survived that.

Matt: Um, yeah, we feel better.

Josh: When you were making the leap to doing the YouTube thing full-time and doing original content, what did you actually change from a personal finance point of view? Did you all of a sudden start feeling guilty buying certain things or getting coffee or doing any of that, or did everything stay the same for you?

Matt: Because of Patreon?

Josh: No, as in before even Patreon, when you're like, hey, Nat, I know I'm not making really any money yet. And I'm like spending money. Did you feel the need to make sacrifices?

Matt: No, I think I had already done that when I was paying off my debt.

Josh: Yeah.

Matt: And for me, like, I don't have that many expenses. I don't spend a lot of money. Like, the— I mean, the biggest things that really led me to pause were obviously camera gear, and it was easy for me to get coffee and lunch and all those things. Especially, especially as I started to move and gain momentum. But buying new cameras and new audio mics, all this other stuff, it was harder for me to justify. And I waited longer in between those purchases. When I did start to make an income, then it was like, okay, great. Now I can actually invest in some new gear and then get the things that I need as my content was changing. But yeah, I try not to be too guilty about purchases. And I had built up a lot of runway. So, I do not take huge risks. Like, I had plenty of money that I felt confident. I knew Nat, you know, was making an income and she's not the best saver in the world, but I knew between the two of us we would be okay.

Josh: I feel like in Australia, or maybe it's just me, but we spend way more money on eating out food-wise.

Tommy: Melbourne especially, there's a real eating— I don't know if Sydney too.

Josh: Cafe culture. Like, is that—

Tommy: Well, smashed avo, we're spending $19 on a piece of bread with some avocado. It's fucking ridiculous.

Matt: Outrageous.

Josh: So is that not something like— when I was working from home, Uber Eats had just sort of come to town, and so I found this Paleo Waffles, which they weren't fucking really healthy at all. They had heaps of maple syrup, but that was sort of became my lunch. And so I'd get them delivered. Are you— do you do this, or are you—

Matt: yeah, I think my biggest expense is lunch and A lot of times I'll get Chipotle for lunch, like on my way to the gym or on my way home from the gym. That's just like a good source of sustenance and helps to fuel my workouts. And that's like, you know, $12, maybe 3 to 4 days a week. And I started doing that when I started to like make pretty good money as a freelancer. And it would just— I'd be like, well, listen, I'm like busting my ass right now. I don't have time to like go shopping or, you know, go out and get a lunch or make lunch. So I obviously had time to go out and get lunch, but I just didn't have time to, like, make it myself. So I would just do that. I would just grab something and then I would be like, it's honestly with the kind of money I was making as a freelancer. And once you make like a good income, it's just you're just trading your time.

Josh: Yeah.

Matt: Instead of taking the time to do it, I have the money for it. I might as well. And it's one of those things I'm willing to invest in.

Tommy: I think it's ad generation. I think our parents would look at us.

Matt: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: My dad was telling me that back in the day, to get Chinese takeaway, you had to take a, like, a pan, a pot down to the Chinese shop, Chinese restaurant, and they'd fill it up with your food and you take it home. How good is that?

Matt: Imagine if that was great.

Tommy: LA, everyone's actually probably doing that at Whole Foods, taking their own bloody, you know, vegan.

Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a to-go container.

Tommy: Yeah. How much are you eating at Whole Foods? 'Cause that, Josh and I have talked about it a bit. I think there's some novelty in it for Australians going over there 'cause it's next level. We don't have the population to have something like that survive. We've got one place in Sydney that's similar, but just that prepped quality food. Is it actually any good?

Matt: Yeah, and I, so oftentimes I will get breakfast at Whole Foods, which like just the buffet. I used to try to avoid it and just because I think that it's— there's a potential high chance for germs to be spread that way. And like, some people are just animals.

Tommy: You're not a risk taker, Matt Diavella. You said it yourself, it's me. Not gonna eat at Whole Foods, too risky. Um, hey, I thought, uh, you haven't met Mr. 97.

Josh: Yeah, we'll get him on there.

Tommy: I'm sure he'd love this. Come in, come in. Have you got a question, Mr. 97? No, actually, what is— I feel like, what has your experience been like just growing, growing YouTube and your podcast and stuff?

Matt: It has been really great. It's been awesome. It's been, uh, you know, it's one of those things that I didn't think I do. I wasn't sure if it was possible. I knew what all the advice people were giving me, like, just keep doing it, keep putting in the work, change it up when things aren't working. And then when things started to stick, It was like a little bit scary, a little bit terrifying. But at the same time, at the same time, I felt like I saw the potential and I saw where it could go and where I could take it. So I just— and, and, but at the end of the day, like, I'm not doing anything different than when I originally started. It's just making films and making them as good as they possibly can be. And I think that when you grow to a certain level, it's, it's a little bit easier to get guests on. It's It's easier to get interviews with people who you may find interesting that you wouldn't have been able to get to before. But at the end of the day, you're doing the same thing. You're making videos, you're making films.

Josh: So, you just met Mr. 97. He does all of our uploading, does all the show notes, all that sort of thing. Did you ever get to a point of using anyone externally to do the editing? I feel like you gave it a crack from the ground up.

Matt: Yeah, I hired Caleb Wojcik, who actually just came out. Did you see Switchpod?

Josh: Yes, it's like the, the, the, the better GorillaPod. It's like the new age fucking thing.

Matt: Yeah, it's like, it's a, you know, the one thing it doesn't have is it doesn't have this like flexibility option to wrap it around poles, but it's very sturdy. It's magnetic. It isn't going to break or bend and you can use it very easily for vlogging. It's a lot thinner and a lot lighter. But, um, so I met Caleb, he was on my podcast. He actually just released that Kickstarter campaign for the SwitchPod, which is awesome. It was really successful, and Peter McKinnon did a review of it that said like, like, is this gonna kill— this is gonna kill the GorillaPod or something, which is crazy. And they end up getting, I think, $300,000 on their Kickstarter, which was awesome. But, um, I actually hired him to help me do my podcast editing, and I had him do like 4 or 5 episodes, and then I was like, I don't think I want to do video anymore. I think it was like part of that, having the step back, not doing it anymore, more and just thinking about like all the effort that I was putting into it. And there's something that I get out of like the editing and I really like creating something from beginning to end. And, but at the end of the day, I was like, I don't think I wanna, I don't, I don't know if I want to keep up with this video thing or at the very least I want to explore my options a bit. And, you know, I don't want to quit the podcast, but then what if I just Made it as fun as possible and as easy as possible to make.

Tommy: Yeah. One last question. I'm busting it to go to the toilet.

Josh: I've got one other one too, it's very quick.

Tommy: Well, do you want to go first? Because then I can go last.

Josh: Mine's about Chipotle. If Chipotle came to you and said, yeah, I know you don't do advertising, but they're like, look, Matt, if once a month in a video you can just include a single shot of you sort of eating Chipotle, don't even have to have the branding, don't have to mention it, and we're going to give you a $500 gift card a month to be used at your local Chipotle. Do you think you would—

Matt: That is not enough money.

Tommy: That's cheap, bro.

Matt: You have to change the stakes to make it actually interesting.

Tommy: What about unlimited, like, food? Just get an unlimited card.

Josh: Yeah, would that—

Matt: No, because I don't, you know, um, I don't— it doesn't hurt me to buy Chipotle, you know what I mean? I'm never desperate for $12. So even over the course of a year, it doesn't actually make a difference.

Josh: Yeah, it's basically for the money.

Matt: We'll give you a million dollars for the year to just do that. Then you're like, but you kind of think about it because you're like, well, shit, you could do a lot of good with money.

Josh: Yeah.

Matt: And technically you could take that money and you could give it to a charity.

Josh: If there's no— what about there's no expectation? If Chipotle said, hey, Matt, we just love your content, we just want to give you this $500. I felt like, $500, how much fucking Chipotle are you eating?

Tommy: He hasn't got fuck you money, he's got Chipotle.

Matt: I apparently don't have fuck you money because I'm like, a million dollars maybe. But, um, Josh actually used to get a Chipotle— they just sent him a card. They have this like influencer card or something where you just— it's a free burrito every day. Oh yeah, a free burrito every day. And he got it and then, um, That was when we were like shooting the documentary and like they didn't even— they didn't ask him to do anything. They just said, hey, here, we saw that you like mentioned Chipotle in some tweets. I think they gave it to you.

Tommy: It's exactly what you were saying. That's amazing. My question, do we have to put the famous Matt D'Avella LUT on the footage of you for our podcast?

Matt: Oh my God, that's a great question. I didn't shoot it with the same lighting. This is all naturally lit.

Josh: Oh no, he's a motherfucker gone rogue on our show. Outrageous.

Matt: Yeah, yeah. Is this gonna be weird though? The fact that we're all, we're like, for the majority of it, we're looking underneath the camera.

Josh: Nah, I think it's, well, it's all, this is a minimum viable product. We're testing this out. Another Chipotle tip would be if you ever get double meat.

Tommy: He loves Chipotle.

Josh: If you ever get double meat.

Matt: Yeah, all the time.

Josh: What you do is don't tell them double meat upfront. Say I want barbacoa or whatever. They put it in and then say, actually, can I make that double meat? Because what they've done is you've anchored, you've anchored the amount. They have to fucking double that shit. Because I swear when I've asked for double previously, you're getting about half extra. So, that's a little tip at home.

Matt: Yeah, you know what? It is very much dependent on the server. I've had good servers and I've had bad servers. I had once, there was, you know, Rebel Wilson? I think she's Australian, right?

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Matt: Yeah, she came into Chipotle once.

Josh: I thought you were going to say she's working there. It's all gone bad. She was working behind the bar. In Hollywood, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, whatever media company that was.

Matt: Yeah, she was, uh, yeah, she was like getting into a mindset for a gig. No, but she was like 2 people in front of me. The place shut down, and people are just weird around celebrities. Like everybody starts like bumping into each other. Like guacamole was forgotten. People were just like throwing mild when it was supposed to be hot. And I was just like, guys, can you get it together? And then when she leaves at the door, Everyone's like, oh my God, oh my God, was that Rebel Wilson? Did you guys just see that? Was that Rebel? It's like, come on, can you relax?

Josh: Can you?

Matt: And I was just offended because they didn't know who I was. Nobody has ever noticed me.

Tommy: If you took the Chipotle deal, bro, I'm sure they'd know who you are.

Josh: Absolutely.

Matt: You know what? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll see, we'll see.

Tommy: Mate, thank you for coming on. This is spur of the moment, hour-long podcast. Yeah, it's great.

Josh: Do you get, uh, with the Chipotle order, do you get rice? Do you get rice? Do you get rice? What's, what's, what is your Just to go through the line, what is— if you're doing a Chipotle order.

Matt: Yeah, okay, I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. So before the sugar, I would do the actual burritos. I mean, and not that there's a lot of sugar in a wrap, but it was— I kind of started to cut out carbs as well. So, or at least kind of processed carbs. So what I will do is I'll get a bowl, usually it's a Stay, and then I'll get white rice. No beans.

Josh: Okay.

Matt: Double steak or just steak. And I actually, I usually vary between medium, usually medium salsa. Sometimes I go with the hot or just a little bit of hot, just give me a little bit of extra. And then I will do guacamole, sometimes lettuce. I kind of mix it up a little bit, but that's the gist. Sometimes a little bit of cheese if I'm feeling okay.

Tommy: I'm so glad he snuck in another food dorian that wasn't even his own. He's got Matt D'Avella's Food Diary.

Josh: I appreciate it. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. This is on you— if you're listening to this, we record every episode as a video. It's on our YouTube channel, and that's where D'Vella spends his time on his YouTube channel.

Tommy: But go and watch his latest video about burning out.

Josh: I'm sure if you turn— if we typed in burnout into YouTube, I reckon your video would be up there.

Matt: Let's do it.

Josh: If not, it'll be someone in a Holden Commodore doing a burnout. Well, I'll do the Australian one.

Tommy: Because it's probably—

Matt: yeah, I'm gonna do incognito mode too.

Tommy: So there we go.

Josh: Burnout. Burnout. Yeah, uh, it is number 1 for, uh, Mr. 97.

Matt: Burnout. Yeah, I got number 2.

Tommy: Number 1 in Australia. Number 1.

Matt: I got number 2 in Australia. Pretty good.

Josh: That's a great result.

Matt: Yeah, all the other ones are like race car drivers doing legit burnouts, as Josh said.

Josh: I want to say, yeah, the motor community, motor industry just being like Man, I was looking for something else and this popped into my recommendation and I'm realising that I'm actually—

Matt: Changing their life.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. It's a daily talk show. Dear Bella, have a good one. Thanks for chatting.

Matt: Thanks guys, later.

Josh: See ya, see you later.