Craig Harper On Psyllium Husk & Human Stuff

Craig: Wait a minute!

Tommy: Frostface!

Craig: The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett.

Josh: It's a Daily Talk Show episode 259.

Tommy: I'm feeling pretty comfortable.

Josh: Yeah, we're in Craig Harper's Zen Den. Zen Den, I like that.

Tommy: This isn't the Zen Den, is it, Craig?

Craig: This is my creative space. This is the engine room of me.com. This is where it all happens, Tom.

Tommy: If you follow Craig, this is where the whiteboard that he writes on and photos and posts is. This is where it's— we're looking at it right now.

Craig: This is it. This is the creative space from which I give birth to things.

Tommy: There's a quote up on the board. Have you posted that yet?

Craig: Oh yeah, a while ago.

Tommy: Can you read it for us?

Craig: A fucking up is inevitable, but how you respond is optional. Which is true. It's part of the, uh, part of the human process, isn't it? Doing dumb shit and good shit and, and figuring out, you know, how we react and respond and navigate things after that.

Josh: Whiteboard lessons— when— how did they actually become a thing? Do you remember the first time that someone said, hey, you could, you could make it something?

Craig: It's funny, you know, like you and I You guys and I, and a lot of people who listen to this, I guess part of what we do in the context of our job or our business or whatever it is we sell or offer or want to give to the world is creating connection with people, building an audience, getting people's attention, so to speak. As Gary Vee's always, I day trade attention.

Tommy: And I wish he sounded as manly as that.

Josh: That's right.

Tommy: A lot more weaselly than—

Craig: He's a little bit, he's very this and he's very that and very busy. Um, anyway, I remember, I remember one day I had written something on my whiteboard for someone that I was coaching. It was just a single idea or concept or line, I can't remember what it was. Um, and then they went home and they sent me a message and said, oh, could you just take a screenshot of— could you take a picture of that message, that, that idea or that line or whatever and send it to me? And I sent it to them. Then I thought, I might just put that on Facebook. And it was— I can't even remember what it was, but it was an idea or a concept that I'd shared many times through the old-fashioned keyboard. And, uh, so I posted it and it literally got about 5 times as much, uh, feedback and comments and likes and attention as the exact same thing that I'd written in some shape or form many times before. And I thought Okay, so I thought I might do another one. I'll do another one tomorrow, write something else and take a picture of it. So I wrote an idea or a concept or a bit of advice or a strategy or a construct on the board and took a photo of it and posted that, and that got lots of traction as well. And I remember early days, I wrote something like— I think I started doing whiteboard posts in 2016 in January, and I wrote something like it's nice to have abs, or it's great to be in— yeah, it's great to be in shape, but a fuckwit with abs is still a fuckwit, right? Which is just a quirky little silly thing, because the point being, yes, it is good to be physically fit and in shape, but that's not the totality of who we are and how we are. And that came out of me, my personal journey, of course, being an obsessive weird bodybuilder and also working with lots of insecure, overthinking people who look for their identity and their sense of self through what they look like. There's nothing wrong with looking great, it's a good achievement, nothing wrong with being in shape. But when we get our entire sense of self and self-worth and self-esteem and value from our identity, we're probably one, going to be pretty vulnerable and insecure because that stuff disappears. And two, it's not a healthy paradigm for living life.

Tommy: Aside from the person who invented whiteboards, you're probably the second most beneficial person, a person who's benefited most out of whiteboards. You've built the audience around it, the Whiteboard Lessons. That's when I bullied you into getting an Instagram account. And then I said, Craig, we need a bloody name. And he came up with Whiteboard Lessons. Is that stuck? Do people say Whiteboard Lessons? Oh, it's your actual name. Your middle name's now Whiteboard Lessons.

Craig: Yeah, well, people don't know my name's Craig. They just call me LBW and, um, no, WBL. Dyslexic momentarily. Um, yeah, it's, it's funny because when you do a few things, like there are some people who only know me through Whiteboard Lessons, which is Insta, and other people who only know me through working in radio. Oh, you're the guy from SEN. Or some people who have only read my books, or some people who go, you're Craig Harper, the fitness bloke, you know. And so I'm known through a few um, through, through a few different kind of areas. But yeah, a lot of people just know me for that, and it's grown very organically and slowly. I think we're sitting on about 13,000 followers, but it's a very highly interactive audience, so there's a lot of feedback and a lot of, a lot of participation, for want of a better word.

Josh: Do you get influenced when people come up to you and say, oh Craig, I know you from this or that? Do you ever get into personal brand mode where it's like, I don't want that to be the first way someone knows me? Do you ever want to control that?

Craig: That's a really interesting question because as an educator and a coach, like where I started out, which is, you know, bums and legs and micros and macros and fucking calories and carbs and stuff, which is I'm still passionate about fitness and health and wellness, but Then you get to a point where you kind of almost get to the end of that road personally, developmentally, philosophically, and you go, so I wanna know more about humans now, not just the biological space suit that they inhabit. And so sometimes when people go, oh, you're the fitness guy, you're the exercise science guy, it almost bothers me, but maybe that's my ego. You know, where I go, no, I'm more than that. I used to be that, now I'm this guy. But it's all— it opens the door anyway. And I go, yeah, that's, that's my background. I don't work in the fitness industry anymore. And, and then they often go, oh, what do you do now? And I'll just talk to them about whatever, you know, the, the corporate stuff that I do, all the kind of coaching and the human stuff that I do beyond the purely just physical stuff.

Josh: Yeah, Tommy and I were watching, uh, Austin Kleon. He's got a new book coming out. He wrote Steal Like an Artist. And he's, uh, what's it called? A Steel Like an Artist is the book. I had a moment where I bought a lot of copies of it. Long story, tried to create a bookshop.

Tommy: Um, Amazon had a breakdown and spent 2 grand on books.

Josh: This was a few years ago. Well, what happened was I was buying them retail. Was it?

Craig: Yeah, worst idea ever.

Tommy: I bet you he heard Tim Ferriss saying, GIF, you should Gift books. Well, and so he bought a shitload.

Josh: So, this would, yeah, it would have been 4 years ago and I was wanting to buy a book for a friend and I go into the bookshop and I realise that none of the books that I like were actually in the bookshop. They always had to be like, "Oh, yeah, we can order it and it will take 2 weeks." And so, I thought, fuck it, why don't I get my favourite books And Amazon— I got this email from Amazon saying American Express is doing a promotion where if you buy from Amazon, you get free shipping. I was like, free shipping? What about if I ordered like 200 books? Would still be free? Like, because that's a fucking— that's like a freight, like that's a huge amount. That's a commercial quantity nearly. So I didn't— I was like, yeah, sure enough, it was free shipping. So I ordered Yeah, it was like 100 copies of Steal Like an Artist, 100 copies of Show Your Work, which is another one of his books, uh, 50 copies of Vagabonding, which was a travel book, um, 50 copies of Stephen King's On Writing. And then I bought, I think it was like 100 copies of Humans of New York. There was a few, right? So anyway, this is before I found minimalism.

Craig: Total bill for this?

Josh: So initially it was $4,500. And then, but the great thing was it was fucking bought through Amex. So I had 55 days interest-free, guys.

Tommy: Oh, so you had to get a credit card as well?

Josh: No, so I had the credit card already, which was why I got the free shipping. Anyway, I told Bri, I said like, this is what, like I had the giddy feeling of a fucking just bought something really dumb. But it's like at the time you can confuse it for a good feeling. Like I've just invested in my future. This is gonna be big. And so I told Bri, That's a story, isn't it? So I told Bree and she flipped out, like, you spent how much on books? She said, no, that's right. I said, I bought about this many books.

Craig: She said, about 400? Yeah.

Josh: She said, is that nearly $1,000 in books? And I was thinking to myself, oh fuck, no, it's $4,500. Anyway, so I went to work that morning. I told my manager at the time, I said, oh, do you think Bree's being unreasonable or whatever? I've done something dumb. She's like, no, I think I think it's probably a bit silly. And so my manager, like, during my one-on-one actually helped me go through, and she said, oh well, through Amazon you should be able to cancel some of them. So we cancelled. There was a few— Humans of New York we cancelled.

Tommy: I was gonna say, I don't have that, so yeah.

Josh: So there was only about $2,500 worth of books that ended up coming. But the thing is, they ended up— they sent me, um, these huge boxes of the books. And the first time around, the box was so big that it got destroyed. Like, Amazon sent me a message where it was like it basically being destroyed in the post because it was— And when it arrived, it was like I just got sent to my work where I was working at the time. It was ridiculous. It was actually a triggering point for reception saying, we're not taking anyone's deliveries now. So, anyway, my point is that Austin Kleon who has wrote Still Like an Artist, a New York Times bestselling author, really like he does these things called newspaper blackouts, which you would really love, which what he does is he gets a Sharpie, he gets a newspaper article, blacks out all the words and just keeps individual words to make up a poem or a sentence.

Craig: Hilarious.

Josh: Which is really great. Anyway, his new book, Keep Going, he's done as like a presentation at Bond university in the States. And one of the points that he talks about is we don't have hobbies anymore, we just have side hustles. And Tommy and I could really relate to it because it seems like everything that we could be good at, our next thing is, well, like, fuck, how can we make money out of it?

Tommy: It's so true. It's like, find something and you won't feel like you work a day in your life.

Josh: Find something you love. Yeah, pay for what you love.

Tommy: It's like people have taken that so literally to go I like this, so I'm gonna— I want to make money now doing this thing and nothing else.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Is there a bit of like, um, expectation people have built? Are you seeing this?

Craig: Yeah, I think that's actually a really interesting idea that we don't have hobbies anymore because everything's got to become productive and financially viable. It's, it's kind of a little bit sad, isn't it? Um, I guess You know, if the original kind of thinking around if when your passion becomes your career, then you don't work, or when you're doing what you love—

Tommy: It's actually written on the whiteboard.

Craig: Yeah, but then I completely get that, and you guys get that too, because you're doing something that you're passionate about, and you're both creatives, and you're both ideas people, and you both, you know, love creating your own kind of model for work rather than putting on a suit. Sitting in a cubicle and answering to somebody. So you've kind of done that in a way. But I think that I also don't think that everybody who has a hobby can necessarily commercialise that. And sometimes it's just okay being— it's like, I love playing guitar. I've been playing since I was 7. I'm never making money from it because I'm shit at it, right? And that's okay.

Tommy: You probably could put on a concert, mate. I've seen you get 700 people to an auditorium. Why don't you just pull out the guitar and do a song?

Craig: They're not coming for my guitar.

Josh: No, but you don't— you bury the lead.

Tommy: Get him in for self-help. Yeah, give him a concert.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Craig: I tell you what, if Adam Sandler can do a tribute to Chris Farley, which is getting millions of views—

Tommy: have you seen that?

Craig: It's fucking great.

Tommy: You watch the Netflix?

Craig: I've watched the special.

Josh: It's fucking great.

Tommy: Adam Sandler's Netflix special, I could not believe I was into it as much as I was.

Josh: Yeah, because he's done a few Netflix films and they've just been it looks like they're money grabs because they're done a little bit cheaper than say his, like I used to love—

Tommy: This is a Netflix special, comedy special.

Josh: Oh, great. So it's not like a stand-up.

Craig: It's stand-up, but it's not. It's stand-up, it's a show, it's music, it's, and it's shot, it's a hodgepodge. The actual doco is, or the special is a kind of a montage of different events that he's doing. So it's gone from this event in this city to that event in that city. And he's wearing different clothes to different audiences and doing different bits. And but it kind of works. And the thing is, he is, you know, like, I watch a lot of stand-up, probably like, I don't know if you two do, but I watch a lot of stand-up. It's a very walk out, tell some funny stories, be funny, walk off. Whereas this is more creative expression. Yeah, it's, it's like there's a whole bunch of shit and it's not him standing up there telling jokes. Yeah, but at the same time, it's It's, you know, and there would be some people who would hate it, but yeah, I really enjoyed it.

Tommy: I think you'll be surprised if you don't think you'll like it, but you like Adam Sandler. Yeah, which can be the vibe with him is like, I like him, but his movies haven't been that great. I was really fucking surprised, just kept me going. It was something about the songs going in between, just talk, talking and songs. Yeah, that just kept me— what kept my eyes glued to the thing. And the pace is very quirky, changing up He's the weirdest dude who embraces his quirkiness. Like, it's, it's fucking great.

Craig: Have you seen him interviewed? Like, I've seen him on a couple of, um, talk shows. He looks incredibly uncomfortable.

Tommy: Yes, Howard Stern, he's on that.

Craig: He looks weird, looking at his feet, shuffling. He looks nervous. You would not think this guy is a worldwide name.

Josh: And he's also— he heads up— like, I feel like Adam Sandler is one of those names where He's actually got a bunch of people around him that like character actors that all go with him on his films. Like, he is—

Tommy: there is, mate, the star. He's got Happy Gilmore Productions. Yeah, he's made so many— like, he's probably made his best mates so much money. Just like, he's— it's cool. Like, you see there's a whole bunch of these people online now. There's like the kingpin of the mateship, and then they just sort of all gravitate around and just you use each other in the best possible way.

Craig: And so, yeah, and isn't that good though? Isn't it good when you can kind of merge social stuff, working with mates, exploring the stuff that you're passionate about, paying some bills, developing, learning, growing? Like, that's what I love about the stuff that I do, because there's no— as a speaker or as a coach or someone who's, you know, like, I just released an online audio program. I've never done that. I don't know anyone personally who's done that, so I couldn't go and see how they did it. Right? So you figure stuff out as you go, and you figure out the actual recording stuff and what content should I put in and how should I present it. Should it be super formal and structured? Should there be, you know, 7 questions per section? Should there be a fucking workbook? And then how do we market it? How do we sell it? Should it be 3 hours long? Should it be 20? Like, you're just figuring stuff out. And next time I do another one, it'll be slightly different, and we'll learn You know, and when I do, like just before Christmas, I did a brand new workshop at the convention center, which was a one-day workshop, and it was a completely different format. It was like a great big classroom where everybody was sitting two to a table. So it was literally like school but with 100 people. So we limited it to 100, and we filled the 100 quite quickly. And I did it, you know me, I never use fucking slides or PowerPoint or videos. So I did the whole day with slides, which was only 15 slides, but we'd put up a slide, I would talk about the idea that was presented up there. So there'd be a whiteboard post with a message, we'd talk about that message, and then off the back of that message, there'd be a couple of questions for them to answer. And I'd say, all right, get up, go meet someone new. And before they would have a chance to go, oh fuck, I'm nervous, I don't do that. And before they had a chance to overthink, I'd kind of almost yell at them to hurry the fuck up. They'd go meet someone. And within about 30 minutes of starting the day, the energy in the room was fucking magic. And everybody's meeting people, they're talking, everyone's there for the same reason. They want to learn, they want to change, they want to build resilience, they want more purpose, more meaning, more clarity. I want a better life, I want a better body, I want a better marriage, I want to be happier, I want to be more fulfilled, I want to stop wasting my time, my talent, I don't want to be the overthinker. So everyone's there for something in that space, and then you just open the door for them to have great conversations, to come up with their own solutions. But there's no 3-step plan on how to create that experience. So I'm always going, well, let me try this, do that, and you go, fuck, that was awesome, that really worked. Or I'll do something else, I go, well, that was terrible, so we're not doing that again. So it's even with— because as a speaker or a coach, or as someone who writes books, or as someone who develops programs, or there is no, there is no set strategy. There is no blueprint that everyone follows. In fact, everyone does it different. Even with— if you explained that Adam Sandler thing to me and I hadn't seen it, I would be not very interested.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, I did a good job.

Josh: Well, it's, it's not too dissimilar. What you're describing is— it sounds a lot like doing a stand-up routine for, for a lot of people, 100%, which is, you know, testing material, iterating, just going up, seeing what works. Um, you're doing this, uh, 20 Questions for Humans book. Is there a universal question that you find? Because everyone's on a different path, everyone's going through different shit. Is there a universal question that we can ask no matter what the situation that will give us an answer?

Craig: There's probably a bunch, but one that springs to mind is, what's my life telling me?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Already say, what's my wife telling me? Yeah, sorry, I just misheard.

Craig: Well, that's relevant for you too, but, um, but, but also I guess a really obvious question is what's not working? And you can go, well, in relation to my health, what's not working? In relation to my career, my bank balance, my situation, my lifestyle, you know, what's not— or what are my results telling me? Yeah, what's my fitness, or what's my health telling me? What's my body telling me? What's my bank balance telling me? So it's all around, I think, paying attention to what's going on around you without overthinking it and without self-sabotaging and without self-loathing. And this is one of the challenges, is we, we put our head in the sand, you know, when it comes to like how many people buy shit they don't need with money they don't have.

Josh: Yeah, fucking everyone. 400 books. Yeah, a lot of books.

Craig: 400 books. How many people eat shit they don't need while already being in a body? A lot of That is— no, no nastiness here, but like, okay, so, you know, let's— and there's no judgement or opinion, there's just a fact, you know. So you might be overweight, you might go, I don't like being overweight, I'm, I'm, I'm heading towards morbidly obese, I'm not particularly healthy, I'm not particularly well, I would love to be fitter, leaner, lighter, healthier, right? I'm not talking about ego or vanity. I'm just talking about function and health and wellness. But at the same time, I constantly eat shit, right? So we are kind of on one level wanting to do something, but on another level sabotaging that very thing that we want. Because in the moment— and where we live is in the moment— in the moment, I can eat this shit and get instant gratification, or I can spend that money and get instant gratification, or I can tell that person to fuck off and feel— or I can blame that person. Because if I blame that person, then it can't be me. Then it can't, because if it's my fault, I have to do something.

Josh: What's the mechanism then? What can we use to go, go beyond that? How— like, if it's so natural and unconscious, if the, the eating the thing is just the what we've defaulted to, or reacting a certain way is there, is there even a question in that moment that we can ask, or how can we be present in that moment to make a change?

Craig: So you answered the question in the question, and that you said that we are so unconscious, and the answer is to become conscious.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: And this sounds bullshitty and kind of Dalai Lama-y, bless, but it is really about consciousness and awareness. Like, so I, I try to bring things back to me in, in the sense of these explanations, because then If I'm, if I'm describing myself and being self-deprecating, then people can't get offended so much. But I know that when I was morbidly obese when I was a kid, I know that when I got out of shape in my 20s— I owned a gym, I was working in gyms, and I let myself go and I went up to nearly 120 kilos— I was simultaneously telling people to do one thing and personally doing another because I had a food issue. I knew I had a food issue, but I kept delaying and avoiding and deluding and procrastinating and wearing bigger, baggier clothes and fucking faking it. And it wasn't until I got to the point where I went, okay, you're a fucking fraud, you're a big fatty, Craig, and you're, you're full of shit, and you're undisciplined, and you're lazy, and you're making bad choices, and you are fucking self-sabotaging. Now You can feel sorry for yourself and you can rationalise and justify and talk about genetics, and you can talk about how busy you are and how you fucked your back so you couldn't train, or you can just go, that's all fucking bullshit. I can get up today and go and walk 5 kilometres and eat fruit salad for breakfast, not bacon and eggs and white bread and butter.

Josh: How about the— because the food issue thing is interesting, because I think where what Tommy has identified with me is I can eat poorly, but then I can not eat poorly, or I can change my habit, I can go from eating the sweet food, but then the replacement, whilst it is moving me towards being lighter, losing weight, it's its own food issue, because I'm saying, okay, well, I actually would prefer just not to have to worry about what to fucking eat, so I'm just gonna have one, like, one meal and it would just be this type of thing. Like, I basically under-eat based on— I find that fucking easier than the challenge of working out whether I should have blueberries.

Tommy: So, it's going, I'm eating badly, I'm gonna remove food completely, which I see is just as bad as— What's making bad decisions there? Because it's like—

Josh: It's another food. It's inevitable. So, you don't actually fix the issue. You're just bringing that energy into it, into another one, which is like going from eating— say if I replaced every time I had chocolate with fucking protein bars, or if I was just eating one type of food, I mean, is that going to fuck it? Like, what's the answer?

Craig: I don't know, it's complex. Look, the thing about food, what's trickier about food than other irrational behaviours and unhealthy habits and addictions is that, for example, you don't— there's no requirement for you to gamble, there's no requirement for you to drink alcohol, but there is a requirement for you to eat. You have to eat. Yeah. So all of us, good or bad, for better or worse, consciously or not, all of us have a relationship with food. So, and also, just like gambling, just like sex addiction, just like alcohol, just like cocaine, just like dope, just like any any substance or thing that we use, food creates a biochemical response in the brain. And if you love fucking cheesecake like I do, the biochemical response is dopamine. Just like with someone else snorting coke, it's dopamine, right? So it's not the coke or the cheesecake that we're addicted to, it's the biochemical response, it's the feeling, it's the physiological and emotional and euphoric state that we get in, right? So, so when people are very naive around food and addiction and they go, oh, we'll just fucking, uh, toughen up and just, you know, just willpower— it's ridiculous, it's ridiculous. And they don't understand it. So, and there is no— again, and this sounds evasive, but we have this— I think we have this flawed collective mindset, and that is there's a way to get in shape, there's a way to beat addiction, there's a way to make money, there's a way to run a business. No, there's fucking thousands, maybe millions. So the way that I eat is, for the most part, I eat no shit. I don't think everyone should do that, but I have food issues.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: And it doesn't matter how educated or intellectual or successful, in inverted commas, I might be, I'm still a human with human bullshit. And part of my human bullshit is once I open the fucking cheesecake door, that shit happens, right? So I need to— and people think, oh, but you're so this, you're— no, it's, it's, it's like saying to an alcoholic, well, you've been sober for 20 years, you're smarter, you've got a business, you've got a family, you've got kids. Like, one of my mates has been sober for— you've spoken with Mick Hall, haven't you?

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Craig: So, and he's successful, he's got kids, he's got his own company, he drives a beautiful car, he's got his shit together. I'm never saying to him, mate, just have one beer because you've got your shit together now. And nobody would think about it because— and it's the same with other people who have addictive tendencies around other things. And so you need to develop your own operating system. Um, and, and for me, for the most part, you know, Tommy knows this, like, I will— after you guys go I'll have breakfast and I'll have oats and almonds and psyllium husk and protein powder and almond milk, and it's pretty much the same amount of everything that I have every day. I enjoy it, and it's not like I eat it, I'm like, fuck, I hate this, but it works. I enjoy it.

Josh: What's it called? Psyllium?

Craig: What's the psyllium husk?

Josh: What actually is it?

Tommy: Fiber?

Craig: Yeah, it's fiber.

Josh: What the fuck is it?

Tommy: It's like powdered—

Craig: no, it's not even fi— it's not even powdered. It's quite, it's quite grainy and granular. It's like, yeah, it's just—

Josh: is it like a plant product?

Craig: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a plant product. So it's, it's a, it's a, it's almost like fucking chaff, you know?

Tommy: It's weird. It makes the—

Josh: does it make you shit or something?

Craig: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, so cut— so there's interesting—

Josh: you're off booze?

Tommy: So I'm not drinking for 2019.

Craig: It's pretty Really?

Josh: That's it, 2020. He's gonna fuck shit up in 2020. You should—

Tommy: but you know, like, I 100%— if I'm looking at other people who, uh, there's many more people, many more people, there's many people that are a lot worse with their habits around alcohol than I am, and they're still— what, I don't classify them as alcoholics. For me, I see it as like, I may as well just cut it off and try something and give it a go. I know I'll be a better person without it. And that's just for me. For something like Josh, he's cut off social media at the head for him and his personal use, whereas the— it's not as easy to just cut off the food thing at the head, like you said, because we're coming— you've got to eat at some point or you'll die.

Josh: Well, I think the other thing too is where I do see it being a problem is when it becomes unproductive of not being able to— like, I can, I can be really The thing is that I use food as almost like a medicine to medicate. And so my productivity when I'm not eating that much goes down significantly because normally I'm self-medicating or I'm eating and that gives me, whether it's sugar or what it, like it makes me feel good, it's not emptying the willpower bucket. Whereas at the moment, I'm fucking depleted. Because I'm like, I cannot— there's only so many things I can, um, you know, so much willpower I have, and I'm using at the moment on not having fucking cheesecake.

Tommy: Here's a question: how do you, when you're a friend or you're a person, you see a friend and you see the answers for them, but you know that it's not— it doesn't solve it by saying, here are the answers, mate, this is probably where you're missing, how do you approach that? 'Cause that's, I mean, that's, I see Josh in that way.

Josh: And given there's multiple, and given Craig's talked about like this fucking 1,000 ways of doing it, your answer isn't necessarily their answer.

Tommy: And so, and what I've identified, and this is, you know, looking at you with the fitness staff, it's looking at other people, it's, I think it's what everyone does for their partner. But you know that it's not okay to just go, mate, I reckon you should now try this, 'cause they're not gonna do it. They're gonna tell you to get fucked. What's a way to approach that when you do see something clearer from the outside than the person does from the inside, and someone who you love?

Craig: So one of the questions I get asked a lot at the end of workshops is, uh, often from ladies— I don't know why, guys as well, but more ladies— they'll come up to me and they go, thanks, that was great, whatever, loved it, fucking light bulb moments, blah blah blah, I wish my husband came. And then they go, how do I make him XYZ? How do I make him— how do I make my husband do this? How do I make my husband see that? How do I make my husband realise this? How do I make my husband or my wife change that? And the answer is you don't. So you can't change anyone and you can't make anyone do anything. All you can do is influence people. And the, the funny thing is Like, let's say Amy had a bit of an issue, right? And you went, hey Ames, I reckon you should XYZ. She might go on a level, fuck off, because you're you and she's her and you guys— but if I maybe said something very similar, right time, right way, she might go, hmm, that makes sense, Harps.

Tommy: Yeah, well, I think it's whenever you're super close, like, I feel like this could be the $400 she's paying you for the hour to Run you through it.

Josh: Well, there's— I think in like relationships, I think that constantly happens. I think it's probably even going to happen with you and I being in business together, is it's like it takes an— we're so close that we can't sort of— there's too much shit, other shit going on that we're sort of bringing in.

Craig: Also, you have to be aware. So the, the answer to your question, which I didn't really answer, is on your part is awareness and knowing whether or not that person actually wants to hear that. So I've written in, I can't remember, I think it was, I think it was Stop Fucking Around. I wrote a chapter about my mum who smoked for a long time when she was younger. And when I kind of realized, when I don't know how old I was when I realised how treacherous smoking was, well, that was it. I was like the anti-smoking fucking campaigner for Latrobe Valley, you know. And I was 8 and I'm like, Mum, look at these pictures. Mum, you gotta stop smoking. Mum. And I did that till I was about 30, right? So like decades. And all that it did was piss my mum off. It didn't help. She didn't want to hear. It didn't create connection. It created disconnection. And it didn't create enlightenment. It created resentment.

Josh: So how could you influence?

Tommy: So you can't cut those ciggies in half, but you've gotta—

Craig: that's right. I mean, it's not your job. The But all you can do is say, like, recently one of my friends is going through some shit, a dude, and I can't expand, but I will just say he's got something going on that I think he needs to deal with. And I thought, I don't really want to have this conversation because I know he doesn't probably, or he's not waiting for me to. So I just said, um, we had lunch and I said, before we start, I want to say something. It's going to take 2 minutes. And then if you want to talk about it, we will. If not, let's just fucking, you know, eat our chicken salad and sing Kumbaya, right? So I told him what I thought I needed to tell him, and what I think, if he paid attention to what I told him and he did something about it, could be very valuable and helpful to him. However, it's up to him, and he needs to want to do it. And I said, you, you might hate me after this or resent me, but I'm coming from a place of love. And that is because I care about you. I don't actually want to tell you this, but I think I've got— I think I know what's going on, and I think I could help, or I think I've got a thought, an idea that could be valuable to you. And, uh, I told him, and he sat there for about a minute and just looked at the table, and then he looked up at me and he had tears in his eyes. And he goes, you're exactly fucking right.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: And I said, cool. So I go, mate, I love you, I think you're great, but I think you're fucking up with this one particular thing. If you want no judgment, no anything, I'm just saying this because I want you to be okay and I want this thing to be better on planet you. And you know, that just takes, not on my part, on his part, courage to go, yeah, You know, and the thing is, you think about everything that we do in the space of— like, most of the books that you read on some level, Josh, are, uh, personal development.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: And I guess you too, Tommy. Personal development, growth. How do I learn? How do I evolve? How do I do life better, my business better, make money better, build a brand better? It's all about personal and/or professional development. And then really what all of that is about, if we want to disseminate it, is about self-management. Yeah. How do I manage me? Because you think about this, if you can't manage your mind, if you can't manage your emotions, if you can't manage your body, you're fucked.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: Your life is fucked. Your relationships are fucked. Your business is fucked. Your bank account is fucked. Your happiness is fucked. You know, you can't— if you are a train wreck, forget— you know, you think about someone, all right, they're living in a mansion on Beach Road looking at the fucking bay and they're driving their Ferrari and they've got $50 million in the bank, so externally they're killing it, they're really good at business, but mentally, personally, emotionally, spiritually, physically, they're a train wreck. Life is no good. And so it's this ongoing, I guess, um a jigsaw puzzle of making this picture that is complete. Whereas, yeah, make money, build a brand, build a business, be a good human, look after your body, have a, have a, have a, an awareness of your internal health, your spiritual, mental, emotional health, whatever that means for you. Maybe it just means being a decent human. Maybe it means turning down the anxiety and the overthinking. Maybe it means, you know, serving others, not just serving yourself. Maybe it means having a purpose bigger than you and your ego. I don't know what— like, for me, I, as I've said, I think maybe even on this podcast, I tried selfishness for a long time. It didn't fucking work. Yeah, it doesn't make me a good person. I don't like me when I'm selfish. I don't like how I am around others. Now, that doesn't mean I've got to be the Dalai Lama, but what it means is is when I am working to help and impact and influence people genuinely, to do that with no agenda— I'm not talking about workshops where I'm being paid, but just the countless opportunities that I am presented with, yeah, to help and listen and talk and coach and care for, for no commercial gain. And I embrace those things because I think that's part of what I'm meant to do. Then you become a better person in the middle of your life and your life becomes better around you. Was that too deep and philosophical?

Tommy: It was good.

Josh: No, do you think working on— do you think there's people that use working on other people's shit as a way of avoiding their own shit?

Craig: Or maybe even, maybe, but also maybe even understanding their own shit.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: And getting perspective on their own.

Josh: Well, they say like psychologists are a little bit tweaked themselves.

Craig: Have you had I think so. And a lot of them are, and I don't think they'd be offended by that because I've worked with lots of personal trainers who've got body image issues and food issues, and I'm one.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: So like, I think we've got to be less precious about calling our own bullshit. It's like, of course I'm flawed. Yeah, of course I've got body image issues. Of course I'm insecure. Of course I want approval. Of course I want you two boys to like me because I'm fucking human. Yeah, this is the human experience. When people go, I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks about me, that's a lie. Yeah, that's a total lie. Yeah, everyone cares, everyone. And if you go, I don't care what anyone thinks about me, you're deluded or you're psychotic or you're just lying. So now there's a difference between that and being totally paranoid and insecure and wanting everyone to love you, that's a different thing. Yeah, but this is like, I just, I feel that especially men, we need to open the door on going, you know what, I'm a bit flawed, I'm a bit fucked up, and I'm a bit scared sometimes, and that's all okay. Yeah, I don't need to be this fucking alpha male chest-beating Neanderthal that fucking knows everything, because one, that's a show and that's bullshit, and two, it's not a good paradigm for life. Because it just doesn't work.

Josh: It can be appealing. I think that I've like seen, uh, like I feel like I've got a lot of sort of feminine qualities. I talk about stuff a lot. I sometimes— I see Tommy's ability to work through things, uh, at an external level where he's not reflecting it. I respect that, but I also think that Tommy's trying to come down— like he's trying to pull off the mask, and I also see the benefits of the mask because, say, being a passionate person, for instance, being a passionate person can be an awesome quality. A passionate person can also be the thing that leads to fucking meltdowns and blow-ups and, you know, being a pain in the ass to be with. How do you take your best quality, your best attributes, and manoeuvre them so that they also don't fucking hold you by the neck and control your life.

Craig: So the difference between, say, um, passion and focus, and on the other side obsession—

Josh: yeah—

Craig: is that passion and focus is in control. You have a level of control.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: Obsession, out of control. And so people go, it's like I've had a bunch of people say to me, oh, you know, alcoholics and addicts, you know, I think I'm just going to become a fitness junkie. That's actually bad as well.

Josh: Yeah, you don't need to be a junkie.

Craig: You don't need to be a junkie. You don't need to be an addict. Yeah, it's like people think I'm addicted because I train every day. I'm definitely not. Yeah, I'm happy to go and do 20 minutes at the gym and fuck off, or I'm happy to have a day off.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: But, but it's, it's about having that, that healthy relationship with whatever that thing is. And I think when you have— look, we were talking about Gary Vee before when we were having a coffee, and I think we all respect him and like him, but— and this is just from the outside looking in— one of my thoughts on it was that he is obsessed. And I think he'd probably say that And I think sometimes— and it— and again, this is just an external, uh, evaluation. Yeah. Is that, yeah, I don't know how much balance he has.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: You know, and he says some things sometimes like, you know, family is everything, and I look at that at his schedule and I think, well, family's everything, I don't know that your behaviour and your lifestyle and your choices is a reflection of that because because if family's everything, you would probably spend more time with them and less work and work less. But I could be wrong. Maybe that's me just being judgy. Yeah. So, you know, I think with all of it, you know, with business, with life, with family, with relationships, with love, with purpose, we go, well, what are my values? What are my core values? What are the things that mean the most to me in life? And then the challenge is to build a lifestyle and a situation and an environment and a career around those values. So I reckon I'm fortunate because I get to talk about my values and live my values and put them into practise and share thoughts and ideas. Because my— one of my values is helping people. One of my values is exploring potential and, and talent. One of my values is, is serving people, you know. And so I get to do all of that and at times get paid for it. So it's, it's a nice fit.

Tommy: So what I'm hearing is turn your hobbies into your side hustle.

Craig: Yeah, I look, I love Gary Vee, I think he's great, but, and it's just, and he probably would say the same about me in some way if he fucking knew who I was. Um, it is like, to me, sometimes some things seem a little bit lopsided. Yeah, like when I, you know, when, you know, it's like I had somebody, um, when a while ago, a year or so ago, dude approached me and go, um, essentially, are you interested in XYZ? And I said no. He goes— and, and his premise was, well, I just want to help you grow your XYZ. I'm like, no, you don't. I go, you want to sell me shit because you work on commission. Yeah. I go, that's the truth. And he looked— I go, let's— I go, you're going down the the wrong road with the wrong person. When you, when you who don't really know me, tell me that you're only about helping me, cool, help me and do it for nothing.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Do you reckon that's his truth, the way that he's spun it? Well, that in his mind, that's—

Craig: yeah, and that's a sales pitch and that's a tactic. And I just want to help you. Aren't you interested in growing this or doing that?

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: I'm like, do you— do people listen to this? Like, do people buy that from you?

Tommy: Many people have bought Isagenix.

Craig: It's when I get that, hey Craig, I want to talk to you about an opportunity, like, fuck your opportunity. Stick your multi-level marketing up your ass and don't fucking pretend that you want to have a coffee with me when what you want to do is sell me shit and manipulate and coerce and manage a situation. If you've got something to sell, that's cool. Ring me and go, I'm involved in this multi-level marketing 'Yeah, and I would like to get you on board because if I get you on board with your influence, that's real good for me.' Yeah, okay, I'm way more comfortable with that because you're being honest. Yeah, be honest. If you believe in your shit so much, why do you have to be fucking deceptive? And why do you have to stooge somebody into— under a false pretence to get them to a place to then unpack this thing?

Tommy: I mean, up the hierarchy of that those business chains is people preying on emotional people.

Josh: Well, someone's willing to buy in.

Tommy: They're willing to buy in. Like, think about it, it's almost manipulation at its finest from the top down, from multi-level marketing companies where they say, okay, who needs to— are you looking to work less, earn more money? It's like they're the people that go, fuck me, me, me, and then they get that, that are like conning, trying to con other people. It's not even They don't see it as conning.

Craig: It's all the same. It's all in the space of 2 Minute Abs. It's all in the space of Think and Grow Rich. It's all in the— it's, it's the—

Josh: will it go?

Tommy: Will it be done, do you think? Like, you've been in the industry.

Craig: Will what be done?

Tommy: All that shit. The multi-level marketing.

Josh: Human nature.

Craig: No, everyone will always be a version of that. Yeah, always be a version of that because, because the vast— do I say that? A lot of people want the reward without the work. Yeah, a lot of people want the destination without the journey, and you've heard me speak about it endlessly, and that is the dichotomy is that on the one hand we want to be successful, but on the other we don't want to do the shit that gets us there.

Josh: Yeah, and because if that was the reality, that would make sense. If you are— if the aim of the game is to do X, Y, and Z and there is an easier way, then I can understand the psychology behind it. I can see why it would seem inefficient if it was like this person's working their ass off, but there's actually this thing that you can take that's going to get you the results. I can, I can see the—

Tommy: well, if someone—

Craig: of course, I mean, if there is a more efficient way, I'm in.

Josh: That—

Craig: we're not talking about efficiency though, we're talking about fucking smoke and mirrors.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Craig: We're talking about bullshit. We're talking about, no, you don't have to do that, you can do this and hardly work and make you know, it doesn't, it doesn't work with resolutions.

Josh: We're in, uh, what, it's, uh, January, January 11th. What's the— you know, you've been on the earth a little bit longer than us. What's the, what's the deal with resolutions? There's, there's the one camp which is like, fuck them, they're a waste of time. I've just— I've tried to use resolutions, they never work. And then it's the people who who on New Year's Eve are putting together their notebook full of resolutions. Where do you sort of sit?

Craig: So I think what matters is what happens over the long term. So I think, and this is just educated, pretty educated guessing, but even that question, do New Year's resolutions work? What does that mean? What does that mean? Do you mean, do you work? Like, do you do the work? Because the New Year's resolution is just an idea about creating some kind of change, and we go, let's do it on that day. Like, put it this, this way: if New Year's resolutions as a thing were a drug, it, it would be banned because the vast majority of the time it doesn't do what we think it's going to do. Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't cure, change, fix anything.

Josh: It's like a placebo, right? If it can trick us into—

Craig: what's the storey we tell ourselves?

Josh: And if it tricks us into doing the thing, for sure. And also, this, like, the latest storey I have is it's like, okay, if I have— I started off with 5 resolutions, fucking 3 of them have sort of gone to shit. But my current storey is, hey, if every year I do 5 resolutions and I fuck off 3 of them, yeah, that's 2 resolutions every year that I'm incorporating.

Craig: And if you look, if somebody starts something on New Year's Day and that turns into long-term change, and then it's amazing, it's great. But the reality is we know that the day that someone starts, be that a Monday, a Friday, a Tuesday, or the date January 1st, December 23rd, fucking January 13th, it's like we somehow think that it's about the date.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: And clearly we think it's about the date because we all wait for the date.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: And you go, okay, the date's here. Today is the date.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: That I am changing. When you go, well, it's really about your belief and your expectation in that.

Josh: It's a placebo. Yeah.

Tommy: We're all in our own stories. And I was saying to Josh, and I've said on the podcast, it's a great— if you were to write a movie, there's a moment in the movie where you get to draw a line in the sand and there's a new beginning. So you almost get to reset. I think that's why it's so appealing to me, someone who loves stories, as someone who likes to sort of conjure up this great— I'm doing this, and now this year I'm going to be doing this.

Craig: There is it. You know what I think is a much better idea which just occurred to me, which you're doing, is rather than going, I'm going to change my life on January 1st, and you know, so now I'm 33 and let's say I live till 80. So the next 50— what is that, 47 years? The next 47 years I'm going to behave differently and do— this is me now forever.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: Which is unlikely for most people. But I think to go, I'm going to not drink for one year because there's a start and a stop, and you might get to the end of this year and go, nah, this is my new normal, this is my operating system now, I don't need alcohol., or you might go, yep, that was cool, now I'm going to step back into it and I'll have a beer a week, or whatever I'm going to have. But I think the idea of working— even when I'm talking to people generally about creating change, I don't talk about the foreverness of it.

Josh: Absolutely.

Craig: I talk about, let's work in 4-week blocks. And the reason we work in 4-week blocks sometimes is because it's long enough to get results but short enough to stay a little bit excited. Right, wow, 4 weeks down, 28 days down. Now I'm going to do some kind of assessment. I'm going to do my body composition, or I'm going to go for a run and see what my time is, or I'm going to tick off how many books I've read, or whatever the, the KPI is, whatever the measurement, the metric is, to get some sense of, wow, I've really made progress. Now what's the next 28 days about? Well, the next 28 days I'm gonna— I've cut out this and that, now I'm going to include that and remove I'm going to move that, and instead of running 3Ks a day, I'm going to run 4. So we're— the more methodical and structured and strategic and timelined we are, and the less emotional, the more likely we are to maintain that. Because when it's purely emotional, um, it's going to be temporary because emotion is temporary. Motivation is an emotion, excitement is an emotion, depression is an emotion. Sadness, happiness. And all of these things are part of the tapestry of us, but they come and go. And when my ability to execute a behaviour or do a thing consistently is dependent on motivation, I'm fucked. But when it's dependent on, uh, some clearly defined structure, purpose, process, accountability system— and by the way, and I'm training with Josh 5 days a week, so I don't want to let him down as well, then I'm way more likely to keep doing what works. And then over time, incidentally, I turned that shit into a hardwired habit. And now this, without even trying, this has become my new normal. So I don't need to get motivated now because this is me on autopilot.

Tommy: With, uh, next week, our one year of doing shows 5 days a week for a full year, it's, it's interesting because we've ridden every emotion. We couldn't have relied on one emotion to keep us going for the year.

Josh: Do you remember, I was even thinking when Craig was just talking about when, before we'd hit our 100th episode, I remember in around episode 40s we were talking about, you know what, we might get to 100 episodes and that might be it for us. We were talking about that, and then you just build that momentum where it's like, fuck, well, we've done this many, it's crazy not to. Like, so we've just sort of incrementally increased it, increased it, increased it to a point where it's like the buy-in is so great now, there's no fucking way we're missing a day. Like, I just, I feel like I've crossed off too many days in a row. My OCD isn't very, I don't have OCD, but even, Well, it's maybe slight, but I can't fucking break that chain now. What's the, Craig, just to finish up, what is the small change that you've made in your life that you at the time seemed insignificant, but that has actually completely changed the course of your life, changed your day-to-day, changed Craig Harper as you are today?

Craig: I could tell you lots of things. But on a— this is boring, this is boring, but it's true— on a very practical—

Josh: it's not the husk, is it?

Craig: It's not, it's not William Husk, because I've got to say, my poo's world class. Uh, thanks.

Josh: Every, every day.

Craig: Thanks everyone, it's been great. No, um, I, I would say my, um, and Tommy's, uh, partly responsible for this, my willingness to embrace social media. Where I just opened a door. And I'm not a, uh, you know, I'm not passionate about it, but I just realised what a valuable, uh— and not just social media, but the internet in general. You know, it's like my, um, like Tommy said, my, my last Melbourne workshop, we had 700 human beings there. I'm like, fuck, even, even I think— and I'm, I've got a bit of a brand and I'm pretty ambitious— and I go, it's so amazing that 700 people people go, here's my money, I'm coming to listen to you, you fucker, for 3 hours. And we've got a gig coming up in April, I think, and we've got a 1,250-seat room at the convention center. And I know that that is, um, the, the fact that the internet and social media more specifically gives me a platform to share stuff like this. Yeah, your podcast, it's a platform. My podcast, The You Project.

Josh: Uh, it's a new intro.

Craig: It's a platform. Yeah, you know, and, and I just think that, um, I think people my age who don't get it are fucking living in the dark. Yeah, because it's, it's just the world's just gone from, in a way, micro to macro macro, where I can just access the greatest minds in the world. I can listen to, I can I can drive to see my folks on the weekend and listen to 4 episodes of You Fucking Maniacs on the way up and back and laugh, and it's easy and it's good listening and it's not complicated, but it's interesting. I can jump on my computer or my phone right now and watch a TED Talk.

Tommy: Can that be our new intro? It's not complicated, it's interesting.

Craig: Yeah, well, and I just—

Josh: you should get a t-shirt.

Craig: I just think I think that for me, stepping into, you know, this age of, um, you know, everything we have available to us now through the internet and social media more specifically is fucking amazing. And I think people don't— I think young people, of course young people get it, but I think older people, like people who don't even— I'm blown away. I get it, but I'm blown away that people don't listen to podcasts. I go, you can listen to some of the best minds in the world.

Tommy: Yeah.

Craig: Like, even when I did my audio program, I probably shouldn't say this, but I was saying to Melissa, and it's 11 and a half hours of content, so it's—

Josh: how can people get— can they still get it now?

Craig: Yeah, yeah, it's— please get it. Yeah, um, it's just go to my website, which is craigharper.net, and it's, it's actually still on, it's still available for $97. It's $197, but it's $97 at the moment. But, and it's as objective as I can be, and I'm I think you and your listeners probably know I'm not full of shit. I don't— like, if I do something that's bad, I go, I fucked up. Yeah, I'm really proud of this. I really think it's 30 different sections. It's— we cover a fucking massive cross-section of human stuff, and I really like it. But even doing that, I finished and I went to Melissa, who runs my life, um, what if— like, why would people buy this? Because you can jump on the internet and listen to a million hours of of conversations. You can listen to Gary Vaynerchuk and Tony Robbins and Russell Brand and Joe Rogan and, you know, Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson, and you can listen to all of these people share their thoughts and ideas. And sure enough, we launched it and it started selling.

Josh: Same reason people go to university. Like, there is something in the structure, in the bringing it all together, connecting those dots, because otherwise it can be a clusterfuck because you can watch Gary Vee saying one thing and then you can go and watch Tony Robbins say the complete opposite. So there is, it's the same reason I guess people go to fucking church every Sunday. It's like there's a million different ways of doing it.

Craig: Can you say fuck and church back to back or?

Josh: I think it's okay. On the Daily Talk Show you can anyway.

Tommy: You can just do what you want.

Josh: Yeah, I think that that's part of it too. It's you're providing curriculum or a structure, an introduction into this information. And I think that there's a lot of power in that because sometimes on its own, these isolated bits, it's very hard to actually connect.

Tommy: They're also paying for you to be thinking and internalising going into 11 hours of content. So there is like the bits that we're getting from other shit, you know, yeah, yeah, at events little bits from a podcast. So then it's like, we're actually paying for Craig to have thought about 11 hours of content for me, which is, yeah. I mean, it's interesting because I don't think it changes. You're very successful in my eyes. There's other people who are well beyond you that would look down, you know? I think we all experience the same thing where we're like, is this any good? Is this, are they, why would anyone want this?

Craig: And it's tumbling. I like the fact that I'm still insecure. Because it means I don't have a big ego.

Josh: Yeah.

Craig: And it means I'm not arrogant because I'm insecure. I don't lie awake at night, but I do something, and even if intellectually I know this is pretty good, I can— I'm that objective, but emotionally I'm like, uh, maybe it's shit though, you know. Maybe it's shit. Maybe, maybe I think it's good, but other, you know. And I think that's good good because it keeps you hungry and it keeps you, it keeps you kind of aware and grounded. And because I want to keep— even though I'm 55 and even though I've spoken, spoken to thousands of audiences in all over the world, I've spoken, right? And it's great, but I still go, yeah, I've got to be better than I am. I've got to be— doesn't mean I'm discon— or I'm not content. It just means that I still want to learn and grow and evolve.

Tommy: Just quickly, because we could go on forever, getting complacent in saying, or objectively looking at what your situation's saying, you know, yes, we could be doing more, but we've done really well. And so what, Josh, your pushback was, I think it's not— I think we can't be patting our backs, patting ourselves on the back for our accomplishments. We actually need to move move forward?

Josh: I think what I try and do is create situations. I've worked out in my life the way that I've moved forward with things is to— it can sometimes be like, I think, you know, 9 times out of 10, most days saying, yeah, we're doing great and all that sort of things, really positive. But then definitely I like to show up some days and saying, we're doing— we're at 40% capacity of what we could be doing and try and go the other way, which will then bring us up. Do you, do you have, do you have those moments?

Craig: Yeah, look, I think it's, it's, um, you can't live in that moment. No, there's a lot of pressure on. It's almost, it's almost a contradiction because like people think if you are content, and I'm very content, but that means you have no ambition. Yeah, well, no, I disagree. I I'm very content in the moment. Like, I have a nice house, I have a nice life, I have a nice lifestyle, I have a nice career, I have nice friends. So in the moment, I'm content. Now, that doesn't mean I don't want to do, be, create bigger and better.

Josh: Yeah, right. So where does that come from then? How do you create? Because I guess that's part of it. It's like, well, look, we've got an office, we're doing— we've got clients coming in and all that.

Tommy: Like, so is it great? Is that being grateful?

Josh: Well, so there's been situations, but you can't use that.

Craig: I don't think there's gratitude and awareness. It's like, I think you both know I work with this guy called John who got blown up in an industrial accident, and, you know, he was going to die and be a paraplegic and a quadriplegic and went through different, you know. And I've been training him 3 days a week. He's the only person I trained for the last year, and every day I spend with him, I'm grateful, right? And so there's that level of gratitude. Oh, I can walk. Oh, I have a bed. I have— I can turn on a tap and there's cold water. I have a light switch. With light and heating and air conditioning. There's just, you know, you have to— like, when you contextualise you in, in, in contrast to the world, yeah, you go, well, there's 7.6 billion people on the planet. Not many of them as a percentage live like me. So one, thank you, this is awesome. But then it's beyond that, and, and, and it's like, do I have a body that's healthy? Can I move? Is my wife healthy? Is my kid healthy? So there's— but we take a lot of things for granted. So I think, and that's more a spiritual sense of who we are, is to come back and go, by the way, higher power, God, whatever, whoever, whatever we believe in, thanks. I'm genuinely grateful because really— and we're getting very— I'm getting very philosophical— but like, really, what matters more, how much money you make or your girl? Yeah, well, my girl.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Craig: What matters, the bottom line this year or that fucking gorgeous kid of yours. Well, my gorgeous kid, cool. So it's understanding what role everything plays. And for me, building brand and getting bums on seats and talking to people and impacting lives, it's almost like an exciting hobby that it's also a calling. Yeah, you know, um, but also away from that thing that I do and that gift that I have and that, that goal that I have is the, the person that I am, you know. And I think it's trying to manage— it's trying to, in the middle of whatever you do and wherever you do it, to be a, a conscious being that you like. I think I like me.

Josh: That the gratitude piece, when you bring it up, I feel like it's external. So I think it's looking at these things that we haven't necessarily played a part in I think that maybe that's part of it is it's easier. I think gratitude maybe is easy to look at from, I'm in a privileged position that I didn't necessarily do anything to deserve this thing, and it's just, and I'm so lucky that like I haven't been, uh, you know, had these hard knocks or these things happen. Whereas maybe what I try and do is say, yes, those I'm really grateful for those things, but many of those have happened just because life worked out that way and nothing to do with what I've actually done, as a way of putting pressure on myself to like, so this is, I'm so grateful for all this sort of stuff, so I better fucking do my bit. I better be showing up every day. I better be pushing the envelope to be able to honour that gratitude.

Craig: Yeah, I like that. That's beautiful. That's beautiful.

Tommy: Yeah, you've got the opportunity, take it. You're taking it.

Craig: And, and don't wait for the fucking catastrophe.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Craig: Don't wait till you get hit by a car. Don't wait till someone gets cancer. Don't wait. Don't wait to be grateful. Be grateful now because there's much to be grateful for. If you're listening to this, the chances are you're in the top 1% of the world in terms of wealth, because if you earn I think it's $36,000 US or more, you're in the top 1% of wealthy people on the planet.

Tommy: Crazy.

Josh: If you've got something that can listen to a podcast and you can connect with people, yeah, it's something to be grateful for.

Craig: Definitely.

Josh: Harper, mate, thanks for being on the podcast again.

Tommy: I feel like at the end of our episodes we're just like just hitting the stride that you could keep— we could keep going. But that's why—

Craig: let's one day, let's do a Joe Rogan style fucking 3-hour manifesto and we'll just solve all the problems of the world. We get about 17 coffees or just maybe get a vape pen, whatever the fuck that is. Maybe do some hash cookies like Joe, whatever they are. Get Elon Musk a few edibles, whatever they are.

Josh: One thing I want to get, but I was telling, I was saying this to TJ earlier, we've got so many listeners who are now sending in emails. And so if you've listened to this conversation and you want to send us an email, hi@thedailytalkshow.com, I'll forward it on to Craig if it's for Craig. Yeah, well, we don't know. I think we'll fucking have Harps on, more of an excuse to get in a room again and have a chat. But please send it through because we talk about a lot of fucking stuff and I feel like these types of conversations inspire so many thoughts and even more questions.

Tommy: hi@thedailytalkshow.com.

Josh: Craig, thanks for coming on.

Craig: Love you guts, boys.

Josh: Love you too, mate. Catch ya.