Outback Living With Rupert

Tommy: Wait a minute! Frostface! The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett.

Josh: It's a Daily Talk Show episode 238, sipping lattes in the BMC HQ.

Tommy: We've got a guest Rupert Ballinger.

Josh: Thank you. Good, how are you going, Rupert?

Rupert: Good, good. Thanks for having me.

Josh: People might recognise your name. You got a lot of mentions on what episode was it?

Tommy: Episode 87.

Josh: 87.

Tommy: Live from the Outback. That's when you had me up at your family property.

Rupert: That's right, yep.

Tommy: In the middle of Australia. It's close to the centre of Australia.

Josh: Is it really?

Rupert: It's actually no.

Tommy: Sorry, sorry, sorry. I'll crack myself before you do. Queensland? Centre of Queensland.

Rupert: That's right.

Josh: Is what I was saying.

Rupert: Centre of Queensland, yep. It's, um, my hometown is Muttaburra, which, and about 30 kilometres northwest of Muttaburra is the geographical centre of Queensland. Yeah, home of the Muttaburrasaurus.

Tommy: The Muttaburrasaurus. There's a lot of, um, when I, so just to recap, I flew up to your property, we made a video, but you came and got me from Longreach, which first of all, I had no idea that Longreach was where Qantas was founded. Little did I know that Qantas actually stood for something. It's an acronym.

Rupert: Yep, yeah, that's right. So, um, the acronym is Queensland and Northern Territory Aerial Service. Yeah, um, founded by Hudson Fish, uh, who was a World War I pilot and, um, a sheep grazier Fergus McMaster, and a mechanic, an engineer called Paul McGuinness.

Josh: Yeah.

Rupert: So very humble beginnings, but a great story.

Tommy: What I love seeing when we went to the— when you picked me up and we went to the Qantas Museum, your grandma was the first— what was it?

Rupert: She was the first baby to fly with Qantas.

Josh: That's cool.

Tommy: There's a photo of her like little baby being held. Is that by your great Grandfather-in-law.

Rupert: So, Nelda Ballinger was my grandmother and she's being held by my great-grandmother. And next to them is Sir Hudson Fish, the founder of Qantas. And they're standing next to the Avro, which was the first Qantas plane. And they were flying from Charleville to Longreach.

Josh: I love that name, Sir Hudson Fish. Yeah. It just sounds so legit.

Tommy: Why did he get Sir?

Josh: I think he started fucking Qantas. That's why he got Sir. Is that why?

Tommy: Was it post-Confederation?

Rupert: I'm not exactly sure, but I assume. Either his service in the war or starting Qantas.

Josh: Yeah, that's a big achievement. Do you actually, do you have a fond connection with Qantas? Like, will you, if you're flying domestically, will you try and fly Qantas?

Rupert: Oh, definitely. Like, I mean, if I can. I think, yeah, I'm really proud of it, having grown up out near Longreach and my grandmother's association. My dad was also a pilot. He flew a Cessna 182. So, you know, I grew up with aviation and I'm really proud that Qantas was started out there. And it's, yeah, I love it.

Tommy: I'm just showing Josh the photo you posted on Insta. Look, if Josh is, he's off Instagram, but if you had it, you would've seen it's a photo of the Qantas little kangaroo. So the wing, the red tip with the little white kangaroo looking down at Sydney Harbour. And you've said, name a more iconic duo, Sydney Harbour and the flying kangaroo.

Rupert: That's it.

Tommy: It's very true.

Josh: Rupert, when you and Tommy were in the Outback, you were actually just visiting where you grew up, right? So you actually spend most of your time in Sydney?

Rupert: That's right, yeah. So I live in Sydney now, but I grew up on a sheep and cattle farm in Outback Queensland, about 150 kilometres north of Longreach. So yeah, we went up there to do a bit of work, Tommy and I, and yeah, it's 20,000 acres. We've sold it now actually, we sold it this year, but I grew up there my whole life.

Tommy: You've got a bunch of mates who still have properties up there.

Rupert: Yeah, heaps of mates still up there. My sister and brother-in-law still live out there. So yeah, it's a great place.

Tommy: I love that we talked about it, like how big your property was before and we were trying to work it out and you're like, oh, it's basically dumbed down version, 15 kilometres from one side of the property to drive to get to the other, which sounds small, But it's actually so far. You came and picked me up. I thought, oh, he's just, you had a massive party the night before for your mom, was it? And then a bit dusty, Rupert rocks up. He's driven 2 hours to the airport to get me. It's like, there's no more, like the classic saying, a country mile. It's like, you don't even think about how long, like 2 hours is not that long for you?

Rupert: No, not at all. Absolutely.

Josh: Well, you were talking to Nikki downstairs at the cafe and she said, where she grew up and you said, "Oh, that was nice and close." And it turns out it was 6 hours away. So you've got a bit of a different sort of view on geography.

Rupert: Perspective on distance, yeah. Yeah, you just forget about it up there. Yeah. And I mean, I went to school in Brisbane, so we used to get the bus every holidays from Brisbane to Longreach, which took 16 hours. So, you know, I've done my lifetime of buses.

Tommy: Yeah, so you grew up on the property and then you left to go, so you did your primary school from the property I went to?

Rupert: Yeah, yeah, so me and my sisters did primary school there on the radio. So it was School of the Air by correspondence.

Josh: Is it still a thing?

Rupert: It is, it is, but they no longer use a VHF radio. They use the internet.

Tommy: You would've loved it, Josh, geeking out. Like it literally like the truck from, you know, you see a trucker, yep, calling on the radio.

Josh: CB radio.

Tommy: Yeah, the full CB radio in a little area.

Josh: Can I get a radio cheque please? Radio check. What did you used to say?

Rupert: Rupert with a question.

Josh: Can you do that every time you have a question now on the podcast?

Tommy: If you have a question, please ask.

Josh: Wait, so what sort of— how much can you learn over the radio?

Rupert: Yeah, well, that's the jury's still out on that, isn't it? But, um, um, yeah, it was, it was, it was good, you know. Like, we had a half an hour session every day, and then I'd do my own work in the, in a booklet my mum taught me. Poor mum. So yeah, when I went to high school, I was probably, you know, there was a few things I didn't, I needed to sort of get up to speed with, but it did the job. Yeah, it was great. And it's an amazing sort of experience. It's, you learn a bit of independence. Yeah.

Josh: So do you count yourself as a farmer or like an ex-farmer? Were you ever a farmer?

Rupert: I guess so. I count myself as a bushie. I grew up in the country for sure.

Tommy: We looked up something before and there came a photo, came up of a guy in a, you know, a Cobra wearing that same blue shirt you had and we're like, shit, it's you.

Josh: So you were quintessential farmer.

Rupert: So I was.

Josh: So what is the difference?

Tommy: He's got thongs on now.

Josh: No, he's got loafers and he's drinking a soy latte.

Rupert: Yeah, I know, things have changed.

Josh: I've evolved. What is the, what do you think the biggest misconception biggest misconception for people in the city versus, you know, being a bushie? Is that what you called it, a bushie?

Rupert: Bushie, yeah.

Josh: What is it? What's the biggest bullshit misconception that you constantly get asked or that people think?

Rupert: I think, you know, that it's just an extremism of stereotypes. Like, you know, although it's great entertainment, we don't ride kangaroos to school and we don't— we're not crocodile hunting.

Josh: It was pretty funny. We did—

Tommy: when we did that.

Rupert: When we did it, it was fun.

Tommy: It was fun when we rode that big crocodile.

Rupert: I think that's probably the biggest misconception. Like, we are not all McDundees. Yeah, you know, they're, um, it's quite similar to living in the city.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, but I will say, without being offensive—

Josh: here we go, I'm so sorry—

Tommy: I think I even said it after I got back from going up there. I see how the misconceptions happened based on the the people I did meet in the Outback. So they're like halfway to that person that they portray in the Hollywood movies, but they're not. So it's like, but there is definitely, it's so fascinating the type. Like when we went to the pub, it blew me away. I should put a photo up. Those two dudes, those young guys, jackaroos or whatever they were, they were sitting at the bar in Muttaburra eating their burgers. You literally think you're watching a movie of the Australian outback and it was them.

Rupert: Yeah, yeah, definitely. You're right, it is a lot different to someone living in the city. I guess for me it just doesn't seem as extreme.

Tommy: No, 'cause it's you.

Rupert: I guess so, but I mean, now that I, when I sit in a cafe in Sydney, it's not me.

Tommy: Yeah.

Rupert: Like that, yeah, it's, yeah.

Tommy: Is it even a thought process that you had when you're there? I mean, you don't, you're probably young, you don't really know much.

Rupert: Really, like, I just, it doesn't just come up on my radar. I'm just sort of like, I see this city country life fairly, fairly well merged, you know.

Josh: What about like, when do you feel, because say when I go to the US, there's certain things of like going to Starbucks or having certain experiences that I feel like a foreigner in. Like, I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm I'm seeing, I'm an alien in this scenario. Do you feel like when you go back that some of those thoughts creep in or is it the other way? Are you more comfortable in a pub in the outback or a cafe in Surry Hills?

Rupert: Yeah, that's an interesting question. Yeah, I don't know how to answer that one. I think there's a little bit of both, yeah.

Tommy: I think you can be both. I don't think I would have the, well, I definitely don't have the feelings going I felt like an alien in the outback. It probably feels more like home for you because of—

Rupert: I mean, I feel I don't pretend to be anyone else. Like, I— in Sydney, people say, oh, you're definitely from the country, you know. And I'm very— I'm just me, which is very country. But I don't sort of feel like I'm just an alien in a foreign place.

Josh: It's—

Rupert: I feel comfortable.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I've got the The issues. No, but do you— so when you go back, are there certain things that you thought to be true when you're in the country that when you see it in a new context and new light, you're like, oh, this is a bit outdated, or I wouldn't say that, or— and how does that friction work with your mates? Where do you think that you ever get the perception of our city Rupert's back in town?

Rupert: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like, yeah, of sure, sure, you know, you get plenty of banter. Going on, you know, how's Sydney and how are the lattes and all that.

Tommy: Well, it's some gags we've got going, the soy latte thing, and Rupert plays into it very well. We've had a lot of banter around just having a soy latte in Surrey. But it is great, I think it's slipping into the stereotype of the outback, but there's a clear difference. I think it's like state by state. Sydney people are slightly distinguishable amongst Melbourne. Queensland into the centre of Queensland, the out— but like, you know, Darwin.

Rupert: For sure, there's a, there's a real difference. It's clear. Absolutely.

Tommy: How weird is it? Like, you think about America, all the different accents. It's a similar vibe, we just don't have it to the extent they do. The southern twang and the New Yorker and the Boston. It's so weird how we're from the same country, but we just— it's, it's all just slightly different.

Rupert: Yep, yep. Amazing. I can, uh, yeah, I was pretty, um, I had no idea about the city until I was sort of a bit older when I went to high school, you know. It was, I just had no idea. And, you know, I remember using Google for the first time, and like, that wasn't that long ago, last week or the week before. So it was, you know, there was big, some big eye-openers early on in the day. Probably if you asked me this, yeah, 15 years ago, it was a different story.

Josh: Do you remember a specific moment of— I'm lost? Yeah, we're just being in the city, being in the city and saying, oh, this isn't the same.

Rupert: I guess so. Like, just not probably a distinctive vivid memory, but just, you know, seeing the skyscrapers and the traffic lights and yeah, all of that stuff that sounds every day to you guys was just like wow to me, you know, and the cars and yeah, it was, it was full on. I, um, when I went to high school, my mum put me down to learn Japanese, which I thought was a bit odd because, you know, I was still getting my head around English. But anyway, so I was in a class with heaps of Japanese boys when I was little, so when I was at high school, so that was a real eye-opener. Yeah, yeah, that was sort of going from one extreme to the next.

Josh: And so the difference between a bushie and a farmer is, would city people consider you, what you were doing as farming or like what's the distinction?

Rupert: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, a farmer. Yep. We call ourselves bushies. I think it's maybe more of a Queensland thing. You know, you're a bushie. Bushies are in town, got the RMs on.

Josh: RMs, everyone in Collingwood wears RMs now.

Rupert: Yeah, yeah, they've done well. RM's done well.

Josh: You're wearing them before they were cool.

Rupert: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Josh: And so the bushy thing, so the difference between do it like produce, like, you know, potato, growing potatoes and having cattle, what's the distinction there?

Rupert: Yeah, there's a few differences in that, there's a few different stereotypes in the farming game. You know, there's your graziers who run sheep and cattle for grazing livestock. And then there's your farming for cropping, you know, you're growing crops. It's a different ball game. And then you've got like small intensive growing vegetables and that's even different stereotype, a different group of people.

Josh: You smile when you said the vegetables, is in your world of being in sort of the cattle game, is vegetables a bit of a joke?

Rupert: Well, I think probably from an economic standpoint, Not at all. It's probably the other way around. But I think cattle traditionally, you know, Northern Australia and Queensland, there's a lot of broadacre cattle stations and it's quite rough and tumble. And that's your real, you know, big hat, heaps, heaps of cattle, helicopters, you know, ringers, you know, Mick Dundee stuff.

Josh: So ringer, TJ, we mentioned that.

Tommy: Yeah, ringer.

Rupert: So yeah, that's like a jackaroo. So it's sort of the term you give to a young jackaroo on a cattle station, yeah, a ringer.

Josh: And then you've got a dogger.

Rupert: There's a dogger there who traps the wild dingoes, yeah.

Tommy: Fascinating. We visited your mate's property.

Rupert: Yeah, yeah, Hughie.

Tommy: Hughie, absolute legend. Like both Hughie's house and your house, the hospitality beyond belief. You rock up, there was a cheese platter going at Hughie's joint, beers are flowing. You guys want something? Just And then we got to your place, there's a full spread going. There's something about that in the outback. I think just people from the country where it's, is that a thing? Do you think like—

Rupert: Oh, absolutely. A huge thing. It's awesome. Like the hospitality. Country people love having visitors and guests 'cause they don't get many. And they love putting on a bit of entertainment, you know, just being a host and have a big, have a barbecue outside or have a big lunch or dinner and have a few beers and sit around the fire and it's awesome.

Josh: Yeah.

Rupert: And it's something that more city folks should experience. And I think there's a big opportunity there in the future for tourism and campers.

Tommy: To what state? Stay at Hughie's house?

Rupert: Oh yeah. Yeah. You there, Hughie? We're coming. Yeah.

Tommy: Maybe one day. I'll happily, I would love to take Josh up to Hughie. Hughie gave the perspective on that. So what, he's classified as a grazier?

Rupert: Yeah, cattle grazier.

Tommy: So he's got a cattle station. Yep. That, how many cows would they have at one time?

Rupert: I mean, they've got a big station. It's about 90,000 acres, I think. They've probably, you know, in a good season, they're running like 7,000 or 8,000 head of cattle, I think.

Tommy: So many. And he said to me that he's a grass scientist.

Rupert: He is, that's right. He's actually a grass merchant. He deals in grass, not cattle. Cows are just the marketing vehicle.

Tommy: Isn't it crazy? 'Cause he has to feed the cattle, he needs to be able to grow the grass and feed the grass and then the cattle eat the grass and then they sell the cattle. It's a tough life though. I got a sense, like he's someone you grew up with, you went to school with, right?

Rupert: Yeah, yeah, grew up, yep.

Tommy: What's the, 'cause even on a small scale living in Shepparton, a couple of hours away. There was a vibe of people would not escape, they would leave their town and move to the city. And it's like some of them saw it as like this liberation, I've got out of that. Is there a sense, you know, Hughie's still on the farm, that's his business, he's, you know, successful in what he does. Is there a sense of like, do you look back and go, mates I grew up with who haven't actually left but wanna leave, or, you know, is there conversations with mates? It's like, you can do it or?

Rupert: A bit of that. I think generally, I'm not sure if it's the same everywhere, but generally in Queensland, like a lot of country people or bushies are able to get away, you know, go and experience a bit of city life, whether they work, go to uni there or work there or travel a bit overseas. So there's pretty good exposure there. And then the ones that are really keen go back to the land, which is great. So it's pretty good. It's come a long way, I think, yeah.

Josh: We had an email from one of our listeners, BK, who we've, Tommy and I have started a sort of a ham promotion where we were saying that we're gonna give away a ham for Christmas, which is obviously a very exciting promotion.

Tommy: Should I read BK's email?

Josh: Yeah, you can read BK's email.

Tommy: He said, I love you both, but all this talk of ham and excessive meat consumption has to stop. Haven't missed a neb. "but I may need to boycott the show until the new year, or at least until all this ham talk ends. Maybe you can put something in the show notes each day to warn me of any ham talk, #HamGate." So BK's a veggo. Vegan. He's gone vegan.

Josh: Is he vegan?

Tommy: Yeah, he's gone vegan.

Josh: Wow.

Tommy: It's even harder.

Josh: That's really hard. But I could empathise in the sense I tried to, I framed it in, okay, I talk about it as ham, If every single time I replaced ham with a slaughtered pig, I said, ah, we're giving away a slaughtered pig for Christmas, it does change the tone. I feel like you're a good one to maybe talk about animals, having them, you know, on your property, dealing with them every day. What's your take on meat, animals, the relationship with animals?

Rupert: Yeah, interesting, isn't it? Obviously I grew up with it all, so it was our livelihood, you know. We are sheep and cattle farmers, so that we raise sheep and cattle and sell them to make money to put to feed us. So it was our bread and butter. So I grew up with— we killed our own animals, we ate our own meat, beef, lamb, mutton, sheep.

Tommy: You'd love it, they've got a— like all of the houses have like industrial-sized fridges.

Josh: So to store it all.

Tommy: I walked in your fridge. Can you get me this?

Josh: I think this should be a trigger warning for PK right now.

Tommy: No, no, like even just like a walk-in fridge is bloody cool.

Josh: Yeah, but the, so is there a difference do you see between the meat that we're eating, the industrialised sort of meat consumption versus what you guys were doing? You know, what's your take?

Rupert: Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm not an expert in it, so I don't know much. About it, but I think obviously if you do the research is showing that, you know, grass-fed meat is, you know, the ultimate. It's better than more processed, you know, grain-fed stuff. But, you know, it's more of an output thing, I guess. Yeah, I mean, we used to get people out from the city, friends and family, and they'd be a bit, you know, put off by killing the animals to butcher. But it's sort of like, well, you know, if you— what happens when you go down to Sizzler and get a rump steak? Like, where do you think that came from?

Tommy: Yeah, I think it's like compartmentalising a conversation around this because you have the context of it being your livelihood. I went there and there was thousands and thousands of kangaroos, and the thought of hunting kangaroos for a lot of people would be like, you can't do that. The thought for hundreds, thousands of kangaroos on your property, eating your crops is a different mindset.

Rupert: Totally.

Tommy: To just killing an animal for the sake of it. It's like, it's actually affecting your ability to live. And if we looked at it in a pyramid, you guys are at the top of the pyramid in the sense of having the trickle down to the cities. So it's like, what I found fascinating was talking with Hughie, who is the guy who is, legitimately giving the beef to McDonald's and it goes down the chain to Woolworths and Coles. And hearing and empathising with him on what it means for him, it's such a different perspective I'd never experienced before.

Rupert: Yeah, absolutely. It is, isn't it? And it's sort of like, you know, it'd be like, it's our livelihood. So it'd be like if you grew up in Melbourne and your parents were property developers It'd be like someone saying, oh, you know, I think developing properties is sort of a bad thing. Yeah, stop doing it. But it's like, well, that's our livelihood, like, that's how we put food on the table and go to school.

Josh: Did you ever— do you remember when you were younger asking the questions of your parents about what it all means? Did you ever have a moment where it's like you have a cow that all of a sudden you sort of build a bond with and then you have to sort of shoot it in the head?

Rupert: Yeah, there was a lot of that that went on, you know. You know, I sort of learned how to do all that stuff at an early age just because it was part of our business, our livelihood. But I never really— I guess because I grew up with it, it was never sort of a big conversation. Sort of just— it sort of all happened.

Josh: Do you find now that you've— there is the more conversations about this stuff? I think that you bring an interesting perspective to this side of things, do you think it is in the, do you think there is a wrong way of doing it and a right way? Like I remember seeing that doco where it's like what happens when they go to Asia and how the animals are treated or what is there, is there an element of it that we can be sensible eaters of meat without the clusterfuckery?

Rupert: Yeah, for sure, absolutely, I totally agree. Like I think definitely, there needs to be, you know, you need to— there needs to be good animal welfare for sure. You need to look after them. I mean, no one loves and cares for animals more than farmers. You know, they will do anything for an animal to survive.

Josh: Yeah.

Rupert: So to see that footage on the television and that, it's, it's, it's not nice. It's upsetting for farmers more than anyone. Yeah. So sure, you know, there is a respectful way to to make the process happen. And farmers are 100% behind that. It's just that, you know, don't shoot, we can't shoot the messenger. The farmers are just trying to provide for society and feed their own family.

Tommy: Farming has been in your family how long?

Rupert: Oh, sort of, what, 3 or 4 generations?

Tommy: Yeah, it's amazing. Was the ethical conversation happening when you were young? Do you— because I think there's a lot of noise now with social media, rightfully so in some cases, of the fucking debauchery that's happening. But was it happening at all? Like, do you remember talking with Dad, Mum?

Rupert: Yeah, no, when I was growing up, I can't really remember too much of that talk going on. I think it's very much become, um, more commonplace now. Yeah, definitely.

Tommy: And I think when I said the compen— when I fucked up the word the first time, and I'll do it again Again, the different facets of the conversation, because talking to the farmers about animal cruelty is a different discussion to talking to the person that just eats a shitload of meat and has disregard for the process. It's a different conversation. And so I think that's where it can be diluted when a vegan or a vegetarian hasn't quite, they get it, they don't, you know, I think I look at someone who's a vegetarian, BK. Is he doing it for the factor of eating meat and the issues that it has with his body? Or is he doing it for the issue, the inhumane elements?

Josh: Environmental.

Tommy: Or the environment. So there's a bunch of these. And I think when the conversation's diluted between a bunch of them, they haven't quite worked it out. It can be hard because someone talking to you, like, have you had a conversation with someone who's a vegan that's been a bit, you've eye-rolled in terms of them just having no understanding of your situation?

Rupert: Yeah, I haven't had many, but I definitely have spoken to some. And yeah, like, it's, it's, it's this— there's, you know, just two different perspectives. And, and I think we're getting better at— there's more sort of respect and understanding amongst two parties or two different sides.

Josh: Yeah. What about mental health within the, the country in sort of outback Australia? I feel like we hear of high suicide rates within farmers. Is that, is there certain areas of farming where that is more sort of commonplace? And what is the, what does that actual conversation look like?

Rupert: Yeah, so obviously it's been a pretty topical thing now. It's coming into the spotlight, mental health, especially in rural areas. I think it's all, it's pretty widespread, you know, there's It happens everywhere, no matter where you live in the country. Yeah, I think, and obviously things like the recent droughts in New South Wales and Queensland have been taxing and yeah, it's a big thing. It's a big issue. And when you live remotely, you don't have the opportunity to communicate enough with the right people.

Josh: Is that part of the problem? Like we hear, like all the city folk or whatever, all the sort of cities are hearing about this stuff, but is it actually, do you get a sense that there's an active effort to go out to different properties or for that information to reach?

Rupert: Oh, definitely. Yeah, there's some great, you know, organisations and social impact organisations getting going now and they're making a massive difference. Yeah, it's being, you know, dealt with for sure. And it's getting better, I think. I think so.

Tommy: An interesting perspective. Heard from when I posted the video of you and I on the property, I saw a few people in the comments talking about finally some positive press about the Outback. And so when I posted that, there was the issues with the drought in New South Wales into the centre of Australia. And it was interesting 'cause it's like you hear this like, oh, they need help. There's no rain out there. But some of the people who live there were like, oh, this is great. A positive spin on something, on our environment.

Josh: What is that?

Tommy: What does that, how do you make, what do you make of that?

Rupert: Yeah, I mean, it's just like an endless conversation, isn't it? It's, I think, yeah, obviously, you know, the media loves drama. So the outback or rural Australia gets a lot of drama and there's real issues. But I think farmers generally, you know, we all know the value of a bit of positive, a positive attitude and progress and all of that. So I think people, farmers just get tired of negative press and sort of, you know, really sort of downtrodden stories. So it's just good to hear some positive stuff and moving forward.

Tommy: Maybe the press haven't got the bit right about who's it for. Or actually, so they think, let's highlight the issues in the Outback to draw attention to the problem. When they haven't, when what they're actually thinking about is what is our audience of people who consume our media? What are they, what's gonna get them interested in this? Because a negative storey over a positive story, the polarising storey is the negative one.

Rupert: Totally. You did right, yeah.

Tommy: But then you can't throw the negative storeys out and only highlight positive 'cause it's a hard one, right?

Josh: It's so complex.

Rupert: It is because you gotta be authentic and you gotta acknowledge the stuff that isn't working and the bad stuff for sure. You can't hide that.

Josh: And there's probably an empathy gap as well because it's like if people aren't spending time seeing these people, like there's a difference between archetypes and stereotypes and stereotypes seeing what we think it is versus actually shaking the hand of someone or actually going out and experiencing that thing.

Rupert: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, like having a solution-based mentality is a big thing now for farmers. You know, there's a lot of young farmers that are coming in that have been away living in the city and they're now coming back to the family farm and their approach is a solution-based approach. They're looking at, you know, new ways of farming and new strategies, and that's really, that's exciting stuff, you know.

Josh: Has farming changed much over the last 20-odd years?

Rupert: I'd say definitely, yeah, absolutely. I think the key fundamental principles will always be the same because you're dealing with Mother Nature and the land, so that's never going to change. Those principles are sort of timeless, but I think there's more education now. You sort of don't walk out the window and you put your hand in the air and make a decision. Farmers now are really informed and they're—

Josh: Scientists.

Rupert: They're scientists, they're soil scientists. They grow grass, they know how animals operate, they understand weather patterns. So it's, they're pretty advanced now.

Josh: So what was your career process? How did you go from being a young guy growing up at a farm to now living in Sydney?

Rupert: Yes, so spent most of my high school in Brisbane. And then spent a bit of time back out in the bush, worked up in the Kimberley and the Northern Territory on cattle stations for a bit.

Tommy: You think his farm was big. How big was that cattle station?

Rupert: Yeah, there was a few that were over 2 million acres.

Tommy: 2 million acres.

Josh: It's crazy.

Tommy: Some bloke owns 2 million acres.

Rupert: Yeah. And a few are owned by companies, but yeah, so.

Josh: And was that the appeal when you were younger? Was that what you aspired to do? What was sort of on your radar?

Rupert: Yeah, definitely. So my dad and my uncles and my grandfather all worked on big cattle stations up there. And they were sort of frontier days, you know, in the '70s when the Kimberley was just opening up, you know, the Ord River Scheme and all of that. My uncle was a helicopter pilot. And so I grew up hearing all these amazing, exciting stories. Like it was a bit of the Wild West, you know, it was adventurous. So I was definitely drawn to that. I wanted to, get, be part of that adventure. And I mean, the landscape's amazing up there, the big mountain ranges, and you're riding horses, and it's cool.

Tommy: The, um, who's your mate that flies the chopper? He's got that Insta account.

Rupert: Yeah, yeah, Sam Chisholm. Yeah, he's great, a good mate of mine from up there. He's a helicopter pilot, photographer as well, and a photographer.

Tommy: Oh dude, we have to go up there. We need to go in his chopper. It's like those, like the small ones, like the kit sort of deals.

Josh: Is that what they call them?

Tommy: Bought it off the internet.

Josh: Is it like a, like the real, like the ones that are like super lightweight?

Rupert: Oh no, this is like a proper Robinson R22 helicopter.

Josh: The old Robinson. Yeah, mate, the mod on those things are crazy. If you mod them right, you can fucking do some crazy shit with them. Rupert doesn't know whether I'm serious or not. He's like, I can't, I can't tell. And so could you actually fly fly a helicopter if you wanted to?

Rupert: Not me, no, not at all. Okay, you need to be flying a drone.

Tommy: Did Dad ever let you fly the plane?

Rupert: Yeah, I had a bit of a go at the wheel.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. So he made you think that you were having a go? Yeah, on Rupert's property there's a runway, there's legit just at the front door, just, oh yeah, a plane will come in.

Josh: Do you have many, like, people use the runway?

Rupert: Oh, we do actually, yeah, we have a lot of people really come in and out. Yeah.

Josh: What's the most exciting person that's ever used the runway?

Rupert: Oh, exciting person, um, like different types of planes, like, are there, um, yeah, I mean, we've had some big, bigger planes, some big twin-engine planes, helicopters. We had a Qantas pilot, ex-Qantas pilot, fly in one time in his twin-engine, and that was cool because he, he just loved He was telling us how excited he was about coming and flying into the dirt strip. Yeah, it was— they love the challenge. Yeah, that's not like a big tarmac at JFK or anything. It's like, gotta come in and, you know, he's came in on dark and he was really chuffed. So that was cool.

Josh: How do they know that it's— that you've got one? Is it on some sort of map and they're like, ah, we need to get to this place, it's only an hour's drive, so if I can just land Yeah, I think they've got it on their aeronautical maps.

Rupert: They're bringing them up on their maps. They can see where strips are in their GPS. And we obviously told him where we were, so he just put the coordinates in and it's straight in.

Tommy: It's so cool. Who visited out to like the Muttaburra area? There's been like the Queen, didn't she go out?

Rupert: Yeah, the Queen opened the Stockman's Hall of Fame in Longreach. Yeah, I think it was in '80. '88 or something.

Tommy: Crazy, when we were born.

Rupert: You were 8 years old. Yeah, absolutely, our drop.

Tommy: Isn't it great that the Queen, just like when you're there, you're like, fuck, the Queen came here? It's like so far out.

Rupert: Yeah.

Tommy: It's crazy.

Rupert: Prince Charles was there a couple of years ago. They've all been there. Yeah.

Josh: It'd be so fun to film. Just like the footage that you got while being there was amazing.

Tommy: It's just magical. Look at it, like you see, you can't, like you just look forever. It's like you're seeing, you just can't see the horizon, you can't see the end of the horizon.

Rupert: That's right, it's just so open and flat. It's amazing country.

Tommy: Quiet.

Josh: Oh my God, have you done many like road trips?

Rupert: Um, yeah, I mean, when I worked up in the Kimberleys, I drove up there and drove back. So yeah, that's like a couple of thousand kilometers.

Josh: What's it like as a, as a drive? Because I've heard people say, because I've done a bunch of driving in the US and I always feel like I need to do more exploring of my own country, Australia. Like, once you go into the outback, is it what people sort of— the cliché, which is like it all fucking looks the same?

Rupert: Yeah, I guess so.

Tommy: We got lost, mate.

Rupert: It does, it does, it does, does it not? Yeah, I think so. But it does change, the landscape definitely change when you get out into like western Queensland where Longreach is. You can just see the distinct it's just flat open, open land. You can see it on a satellite map. It's, it's quite unique.

Josh: Have you seen a big change with things like Facebook? Like, I've just come back from 4 months being away, and so I'm at my parents for the next month and seeing them on their iPads on Facebook scrolling. It's just like they're way more receptive of like technology just consuming their life because they just, just let it in, and now all of a sudden they're doing it. Is it a similar thing in sort of rural Australia, do you think?

Rupert: The adoption of technology?

Josh: Of technology and Facebook and what does it look— how do they— how do you—

Rupert: Yeah, totally. Like, we've just taken to it like a seagull on a chip. Like, it's awesome, you know. Like, country people love technology and it brings us closest together and it's another form of communication and I personally like it. Like, I'm working on a technology venture at the moment in Sydney, so it's— I love it, it's exciting.

Josh: Do they use it differently?

Rupert: Um, differently—

Tommy: What he's saying is people meeting on Tinder.

Josh: No, what, like, is it— well, I guess the thing is that, like, when I'm travelling or whatever, going to Western Australia and beautiful sunsets, get a lot— you guys have sunsets good sunsets all the time. Is it just a rule that if you're fucking, if you're out there, don't bother with the sunset because we're all seeing it?

Rupert: Oh, as in don't bother taking the photo?

Josh: Yeah.

Rupert: Yeah, you know, it's sort of like, it's not like icebergs at Bondi where every second person takes a photo. Yeah, it's better in real life.

Josh: What type of content? Like, is it snakes? Like if you see a good fucking snake on your property, is that straight away an Insta story?

Rupert: Oh yeah, for some. No, it's, Yeah, what you're doing during the days, it's good content. You know, if you're mustering cattle or mustering sheep, a lot of guys do that. My mate Sam Chisholm, the helicopter pilot, he's got some awesome content of in the helicopter. And, um, yeah, I mean, sunsets are great, you know, it's all good, it's exciting. There's plenty, plenty of things to, to snap up.

Tommy: Ringers from the Top End, I think that's the Facebook page.

Josh: You following that?

Rupert: I, I I think I am following it.

Tommy: Yeah, you should get on. Oh, you don't have Facebook. But I get a fix of outback lifestyle from people who live in the outback. So it's like all the ringers.

Rupert: Yep.

Tommy: They're catching wild buffalo and it's unbelievable just the shit that's going on. But there's a community of people who are from out there that obviously are sort of using it as their networking tool versus going down the pub.

Rupert: Yeah, that's right, absolutely. It's brought, yeah, it's taken the community online like most places, but it's probably actually stronger than the city because everyone, most people know each other and you're sort of, you're a small community. So when you bring it online to social media, it's great, it's powerful because you have that genuine authentic connection. You know who's on there and you know Tommy down the road.

Tommy: You're saying I don't have 1,800 friends in real life?

Josh: What's the relationship? Having not spent time in the outback, what is the relationship with indigenous people in the outback? Is it, are they working on the farms? Like, can you give us context of what that looks like?

Rupert: Yeah, so I guess—

Josh: Giving context that I've got no fucking idea.

Rupert: So it's a very low benchmark. Yeah, I didn't grow up with any indigenous, so It was all fairly new for me when I went up to the Northern Territory and the Kimberley. That's when I met some Indigenous, you know, I worked with a few on the stations and that was really interesting. It was fascinating working with them and I'm still friends with them on Facebook. And yeah, it's interesting, like, we probably, as a farmer growing up on the land, I didn't learn much about it unfortunately. I wasn't able to sort of get that from an early age. So I'm still learning, yeah.

Josh: Do you get the sense that there is the sort of interest has peaked in that sort of stuff? Like, is there, you know, like, is there, what is it called? It's like tribes? Like, what, like, are there certain sort of groups that are still sort of practising traditional methods? Are they going and finding out tucker? Like, was tucker, is tucker on the radar of a farmer?

Rupert: Maybe not so much the farmer, but I think the Indigenous are still right into that for sure, definitely.

Tommy: What's their way of life? I had the same line of questioning when I was there, 'cause I didn't notice a lot of Indigenous people there. I didn't see any. And your response was that not within this area, so that it's very specific to the region. Like if you went more to centre of Australia or up to Darwin, up that way, That's where they're more populating, those areas.

Rupert: I think, yeah, there is some more, it's probably more in Central Australia and Northern Australia. Yeah, definitely.

Tommy: We got amongst the, as kids, maybe it's our age, but I was surprised when I was a kid, I used to watch this show called Bush Tucker Man.

Rupert: Yeah.

Tommy: The dude, what's his name?

Rupert: Les Hiddens.

Tommy: Les Hiddens. So Les is family friends with Reece Mitchell.

Josh: Oh, really?

Tommy: A good mate of mine. He was— somehow we worked that out years later, but Bush Tucker Man.

Josh: He's also friends with Russell Coyte. Yeah, as well.

Tommy: So the real guy and the fake guy.

Josh: Yeah, the full spectrum.

Tommy: The full spectrum. But Bush Tucker Man was— it was a show that was set— where was it? Northern Territory.

Rupert: Yeah, Northern Territory. He went everywhere. He was a pioneer. He— well, he wasn't pioneering, but he was adventurous. He went to the Gulf of Carpentaria. Cape York Peninsula, Northern Territory, the Kimberley. He was amazing.

Tommy: But he'd work out, like, he'd be with Indigenous people working out and learning how to sort of strip bark off a tree that emitted a toxin that would pull the oxygen out of water. So in swamps, he'd break up this bark, and then the fish would float up, and then he'd catch the fish and cook it up. You would have loved the show.

Josh: It was so good. I could YouTube it.

Tommy: Definitely, I've watched it on YouTube. And so you would have had that on VHS?

Rupert: Absolutely, watched, I loved it. That was one of my favourite videos growing up. Him in his old Land Rover fueling up.

Tommy: That tune, it was like an opening song that's just like triggering memories.

Josh: Oh, the head van tune.

Tommy: No, similar, better. And it almost like when you watch it on YouTube, there's a warp because obviously someone's watching an old recording, an old VHS that had that. Warp in the sound.

Rupert: Yeah, he was, he was skilled, he was talented. I think he would really challenge Bear Grylls. Like, I put that— drop them in the, in the, in the outback, he'd be fine.

Tommy: Yeah, he'd be waiting for catering, Bear Grylls. The thing I was— and the thought I had being on your property at night was sitting out on the porch, so quiet. You can, you know, like, you can look in the distance can't see anything. Then you might see a light flicker very far out. And basically, the drive from Longreach to your place, you're pretty much driving through different people's properties. So it's one main road that is going through different properties. So you go through these big cattle gates, now you're in Rupert's property, you go on. And what I was thinking is, fuck, have you ever just been at your house in, in bed and then there's someone in your property? 'Cause you're so far out, you're like, either they're here to fuck shit up or they're lost. You know, it's like a real eerie feeling.

Josh: Can you tell us a crazy storey about anyone that went to the property? Sure.

Tommy: If you don't have one, make it up.

Josh: Or alien stuff. I feel like aliens are more likely to be out in the outback.

Rupert: Aliens, yeah. We've had a few aliens drop in for some Great Northerns.

Josh: His name was Tommy Jack.

Rupert: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's from Melbourne.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: No, did you have anyone stay? Stumble into your property, like you found them living on your property?

Rupert: Yeah, no one living on there. Yeah, there's been heaps of visitors turn up. Yeah, so it's pretty interesting. It's not, no crazy stories.

Josh: What is the visitors? What does that even look like? So it's like you just, 'cause I guess that happened back in the day, like in the late '90s, early 2000s, you'd be at home and someone would just come around without like saying anything, right? They just like knock on the door. Hey, what's going on?

Rupert: Yeah. Just roll in.

Josh: You wouldn't really do that now, like with, you'd get on Facebook Messenger or make sure you're there.

Tommy: Snapchat.

Josh: Snapchat that you're going.

Tommy: I'd be offended personally if someone rocked up.

Josh: Yeah, what is, I mean, what is the, what are some of those cultural differences? Like, is that commonplace to, you hear the, we leave our doors open, that sort of thing.

Rupert: That's what I was just thinking, you know, like on your farm you can hardly lock up the place, like it's just so open and You know, it's quite a nice refreshing environment really. You don't lock up, you don't worry about that. People turn up, it's fine. They might be strangers, but you're friendly to them. You talk to have a conversation, get them in for a cup of tea, maybe have a few Great Northerns, whatever. You know, it's pretty nice. Like it's so different to the city in that respect.

Josh: Overseas travelers, would you ever get people?

Rupert: Oh yeah, absolutely. Foreigners, you know, cruising around, you know, backpacking around Australia or whatever, you know, like travellers rocking up to your front door.

Tommy: Yeah, your mum would have put on a spread for sure.

Rupert: Yeah, absolutely. A few lamb sandwiches.

Tommy: Did you ham it up? Did you, uh, ham it up? Not intent. Ham it up in terms of like, let's put on a show for these tourists.

Josh: Yeah, let's make it— Rupert, get out the whip.

Rupert: Well, mate, that's what we did for you.

Josh: Can you control a whip?

Rupert: I can control a whip, yes. Yep.

Josh: Do they actually have a practical purpose?

Rupert: I can do the Sydney Flash and the Queensland Crossover.

Josh: What does that look like?

Rupert: Sydney Flash is a 3— I think it's a 5-crack manoeuvre with 1 whip. And then the Queensland Crossover is 2 whips.

Josh: Yeah. Your visual, it's a real visual.

Rupert: It's hard to get a bit of space in Surry Hills.

Josh: Now to do the wave. I mean, what is the, for people who are listening who are super interested in the Outback, like what could you actually, is there a way nowadays to be like, rather than going to the Great Ocean Road for a weekend, is there an option to, I wanna go into the Outback? What would you suggest without dying halfway there?

Rupert: Yeah.

Tommy: Just give Hughie's number.

Rupert: Exactly. Anyone can go out there. But I think the great thing, and I think, I hope it happens more, more is city people getting to know country people and just—

Josh: How do you do it? It's hard making friends as adults as it is.

Rupert: Exactly, you're dead right. Good question, you've got to start somewhere. I don't know what it is, if you just got to think of, I don't know, someone you grew up with or someone you went to school with who may have a friend or a family member who lives on a farm, get in touch with them, talk to them.

Josh: Are country people doing that? Do you get— is it— does it happen the other way where it's like if you're in the country Do you have pen pals? Is that like a standard thing?

Rupert: Oh, for sure. You know, like we, I grew up having friends. We had family friends in the city. Yeah, definitely. And we'd go and stay with them. It was awesome. Yeah. And they came out to us. So it was great. Like, and I hope that happens more often.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It would be hard to have the experience that I had if you didn't know somebody.

Rupert: Exactly.

Tommy: And that's the experience you want. You want the rocking up. Campfire, like it's a legit, that's what your family does.

Rupert: You want the authentic, genuine, like, um, real life experience of what happens on a working cattle station.

Josh: That's why making films, that's what I love about making films. Like, I got to go to places like Pakistan and, uh, you know, regional parts of Indonesia, and you just got like, you're having these experiences that you would never get the opportunity to have if you were on a tour bus.

Rupert: Absolutely.

Josh: And so it's about like, I think it's about almost, I think for you and I, TJ, it's like creating that type of content, being like, oh, this dogger, is it a dogger? Like let's create a video on a dogger. Let's actually like, rather than it all being hipster cafes and lattes.

Tommy: Yeah. I wanna go out with the dogger. He probably wouldn't talk to us though, would he?

Rupert: Probably not.

Tommy: Do you know that dogger that we're thinking of?

Rupert: I don't, I've only heard of him. Yeah, he's pretty—

Tommy: What have you heard?

Rupert: Oh, I've just heard he's quite amazing. He's quite animal-like and has the instincts of an animal. And he goes out and tracks these wild dogs and yeah, pretty amazing stuff.

Tommy: So these dingoes live on properties, kill the livestock and just cause chaos for the farmers.

Rupert: Yep, they kill the sheep and the cows.

Tommy: And they're fucking little brutal little pricks. Nip on Achilles tendons, let them rot, and they're still alive, and they come in and eat.

Rupert: Yeah, they're pretty vicious.

Tommy: So it's full on. They're dogs.

Josh: That's right.

Rupert: So this guy—

Josh: dingoes or dogs?

Tommy: Uh, yeah, so this is— no, there's some education there. A dingo you can't kill because they're a native animal. There's a crossbreed. Yeah, fix that up for me.

Rupert: Yeah, like there's, um, there's what you call a wild dog, which is a cross between, uh, a dingo and a domestic dog.

Josh: So, do they look weird? Like, have you ever seen like real mix, like a French bulldog versus a dingo?

Rupert: Like just poodle?

Josh: Yeah, poodle dingo.

Rupert: I haven't seen that extreme. No, there's, there's some crosses. Yeah, you know, it's—

Josh: but no sort of like—

Rupert: no odd—

Josh: no, like 101 Dalmatian, like a Dalmatian mix bounding across the, across the Downs.

Rupert: Yeah, no, I haven't seen that.

Tommy: Yeah, so the way they can, so they have a license, the doggers, don't they? Or they have—

Rupert: Yeah, they're like sort of contracted by the local council or they operate as a sole trader where they basically get paid a bounty to track these dogs down. And yeah, apparently some of them like this guy we're talking about, you know, clears a pretty decent decent income every year, probably he'd outdo some investment bankers in the city.

Tommy: Like hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: We did the numbers, I can't remember what it was, but—

Josh: Yeah.

Rupert: I don't know what it was.

Josh: It was significant.

Rupert: It was either $20 mil or $400,000.

Josh: Somewhere between. Is there, because it's sort of, I'm guessing it's quite a tight-knit community or like it's one of those things where it's like, there's the hospitality and all the stuff you, talk about, uh, I used to work in the media department at the fire brigade. It was one of those things where if you were a firey and you would go overseas, you could rock up to a fire station and there'd be great hospitality. Is there overlap between, you know, bushies or farmers in different parts of the world?

Rupert: In different parts of the world, as in, uh, are you talking about—

Josh: so if you go to the— so if, if you're a an Australian going to the States, would you go and say, say for instance, I remember I did a film on agriculture or whatever it was about the Murray-Darling Basin and stuff like that. People were talking about they go to different parts of the world to find out like irrigate, they go to Israel for irrigation and stuff like that.

Rupert: For sure, a lot of, I've had a lot of mates who have gone over to America and they've worked on ranches over there, big cattle ranches in Texas. You know, Angus Studs and all that. Yeah, definitely, there's a real crossover for sure. Um, you're right, irrigators going to Israel or wherever the cutting edge, you know, farming technology is, uh, South Africa, Argentina. There's, there's trips to— I did a trip when I was at uni to China, an agricultural trip that was awesome. Um, saw their farming. Yeah, there's, there's plenty of that for sure.

Josh: Is there certain— when you're buying meat, is there certain things that you look for? Do you say, okay, I want it to be grass-fed, I want to do this, I'm not gonna buy from Coles, I only buy from here?

Rupert: Yeah, I personally like to buy grass-fed meat if I can. That's the only real probably thing I like, yeah.

Josh: And so in where you were and the farm that you, so what is it called, Grazia?

Rupert: Grazia.

Josh: Yeah. Were you, was it grass-fed?

Rupert: Yeah, so it was all grass-fed broadacre grazing. So they only ate grass, we didn't feed them grain.

Tommy: I will just say it's not grass as you know it. It's not your local golf course.

Rupert: It's not green, Sir Walter. No.

Josh: I saw a lot of red, right? A lot of red dust and stuff in the video. So then when you said they were grass-fed, I just imagined this big green patch that you were watering, but it's not like that at all.

Rupert: No, no, it's just like the native, native grass, which is like a— looks a bit like just a yellow stubble, like weeds. Well, yeah, big stalky, sort of, um, tussock.

Josh: And do you actually grow that? Is the idea that you've got to maintain it?

Rupert: No, so it's, it's, um, it's, it's an annual, um, plant, so it's sort of native to the, to the land, so it grows there every year. But there's also improved pastures where you seed the, seed the soil with, uh, with an improved pasture. That is good, you know, more nutritious or whatever, yeah.

Josh: How do you know if the cows have enough?

Rupert: Well, yeah, there's, you can go into this in great depth. I'm not an expert in it, but some very good, you know, successful farmers, they operate like basically scientists or economists where they understand, they can do a grass budget, so they can go into a paddock and chop away a metre square and go home and weigh that and work out how much grass or dead matter they have in that paddock. So they then calculate how many days they can have the cattle in there for.

Josh: Wow.

Rupert: It's very specific. And that's where you get ahead, I think, in the farming game.

Josh: You'll start hearing the rain. It's raining here in Melbourne. Yeah. Does it rain?

Rupert: Did it rain last? I'd send some bullocks down to Collingwood. Yeah.

Josh: So does it rain at all where you're from?

Rupert: It does, sometimes it forgets to. Yeah.

Josh: Like how many days? Could you go a whole year without rain?

Rupert: Oh, absolutely. I mean, up in Western Queensland, there's been a sort of dry period for sort of 4 or 5 years. Not to say there hasn't been rain. It's just, let's say the annual rainfall was 18 inches. You know, we might've only had 6 in the last 3 years. 3 years or something.

Josh: It's crazy.

Rupert: Below average.

Tommy: Yeah, so crazy. Yeah, I think there's a perspective that is great for people to, to gain from talking to someone at your level. Like, the person that eats meat and doesn't think about it in terms of the person out there pulling out a cubic metre of soil to weigh it— like, so much thought. There is so many, there's so many steps to what we take for granted.

Rupert: Absolutely, yep.

Tommy: So much thought, yeah.

Josh: And I think that the other thing too is you just need to go. This is like, for me, this is like a trigger point, this conversation, to then actually you got to go out and see it, right? I think that's like the key. I'm already like so over it.

Tommy: What we are saying is, Huey, we're coming, we're coming.

Rupert: Get the Great Northerns on ice.

Tommy: Yeah, cheese board, cheese board, we'll be there soon.

Josh: Probably a while Rupert, thanks mate for coming on the podcast. No worries. And so nowadays you're just doing tech stuff?

Rupert: Yeah, just working on an exciting new mentoring tech venture in Sydney. So hope to get that up and running very soon.

Tommy: And then we'll have you back on.

Rupert: Absolutely, next year 2019, be back.

Josh: What's like the classic rural goodbye? Is it just like, see you later, champ? Hooroo. Hooroo. That's what I say already. You're a bushie.

Rupert: Yeah, a grazier, mate.

Josh: I'll take it. It's The Daily Talk Show, everyone. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. Rupert, thanks, mate.

Rupert: Thanks, guys.