Gawndy On The Less World Famous Rooftop

Tommy: Wait a minute. Crossface.

Daniel: The Daily Talk Show. A conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, everyone. Back in Melbourne.

Tommy: Yeah, from the rooftop.

Josh: Yeah, with Gondi, mate. Yeah. What's going on?

Daniel: You guys have had some great guests in the last few weeks, so you better shine, mate. I know. And I'm thinking, geez, they're going up and up and up and then they get back from overseas and they got me.

Tommy: Yeah. Now, well, you've, you've got us the rooftop. Describe where we are, Gondi.

Daniel: So we are at SCA in Melbourne. I've done my show out of here because we had the radio awards on the weekend and I'm based on the Central Coast just out of Sydney. So an hour from Sydney, a lot of people think it's a long way from Sydney, but it's literally an hour with the coast lifestyle. But this company, so we're here today off the back of the Radio Awards and I head home today.

Tommy: What's the deal? Do you have to be like, you know, can we please do the show? Are they okay with it? Well, I know for me when I was in Shepparton, it was nonexistent. You couldn't just, hey, we're just going to go down to Melbourne and do a show. Well, I don't know.

Daniel: I think they've, with all these digital studios and stuff set up now, I think they're kind of— it's become easier. Yeah. Although this— you had access to this at that point in time as well, right?

Tommy: Yeah. Well, maybe. I don't know. We felt like we were very much shit kickers of the business.

Daniel: See, but I think that's changed.

Tommy: You reckon?

Daniel: Yeah, I really do. I think because I've worked in this very building, I think Tommy, you and I worked here around about the same time. And I think the perception of stations outside of the metros has changed a lot. And yeah, I mean, we just don't even ask any questions. We just send the email, the techs confirm it, and we walk through the door. So yeah, I'm not sure.

Tommy: So the real— the job for the techs has just become much harder because they're getting all these people going, yeah, can we do the show? Remote from Melbourne now.

Josh: So for people who aren't familiar with the radio industry, there's how many regional stations do you reckon Southern Cross has?

Daniel: There is something like 68 regional stations and they do vary in size. I think it kind of starts at the Gold Coast, Newcastle, Canberra, and I'd say us are probably the bigger markets. Our breakfast shows, one of which I'm on with Ash Pollard from MKR, we have producers on our breakfast show and a lot of— Shepparton wouldn't have had that when you were there. So no producers and Yeah. So there's a lot of regional stations for sure. But yeah, I mean, I guess some of the bigger ones get access and maybe some don't. I'm not sure. But I advise anyone that's listening, I mean, just give it a crack because this is a great building. I love coming here.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. Well, you see Eddie McGuire just walk in the halls. Saw a bunch of Ed Kavalee.

Daniel: Yeah.

Tommy: Who's doing breakfast up in Sydney but is in Melbourne.

Daniel: Well, yeah, half the show's here, half the show's in Sydney for that show. And the studio we're out of is right next door to them. So They've got talent absolutely everywhere in this building.

Josh: It's actually a good vibe today, like off the back of the Radio Awards. It sort of reminds me, Tommy and I went to Sirius Radio.

Daniel: I went there too when I was in New York. Yeah, did the tour.

Josh: Did you go with Ben Harlem? Is that who you are?

Daniel: Ben Harlem was my connection.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: Did he give you the tour?

Daniel: Yeah, he did.

Tommy: He's bloody good, isn't he?

Daniel: Through Brad Blanks, actually.

Tommy: Yeah, same.

Daniel: Yeah, right. I was out with Brad Blanks and he was like, I need to hook you up with the guy from from Sirius and we're in this bar having a beer and he goes, you wouldn't believe it, the guy's just walked in the door out of any bar in the whole of New York City.

Tommy: I reckon there's some racket going on because when we got to New York, Josh saw Ben Harlan walking down the street and then we were out with Brad Blakes and then Brad said, you got to go to Sirius and you're going to meet Ben. Yeah, I reckon there's something going on. It's all staged.

Josh: Did you have to pay cash? Cash? We paid $2.50. You know, having been to Sirius, they're sort of— they've got studios and studios with all different shows going on. And I guess normally we've got, you know, Metro will have their main breakfast show or whatever. But this is like a different vibe today where there's lots of different breakfast shows all doing their thing.

Daniel: Did you guys get to go into Howard Stern's side of the building or is that just a no-go zone? I'd love to go in there.

Tommy: I like that Gordie was testing us to see if we got something better than he did.

Josh: Did you go in?

Daniel: We didn't. We should have said yes.

Josh: No one's going to. Do you, do you listen to Howard Stern?

Daniel: I— well, I don't pay for— is it— they have to pay for some sort of subscription or.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Daniel: I don't pay for it. I just get it all on YouTube whenever they upload things or his Instagram is quite good for a lot of their content as well. So I just kind of get it through there. But I would like to listen to it daily. I mean, one of the greatest, if not the greatest broadcasters of all time.

Tommy: Yeah.

Daniel: In Howard Stern.

Tommy: So isn't it funny, Howard's voice coming from that guy? Like, yeah, seeing him as sort of a scrawny kind of long-haired eccentric looking dude but has this really deep voice.

Daniel: I watched a video of him talking about it and I reckon I can relate, is that he gets his headphones set to a certain, uh, volume— well, not volume, it's like a base of his voice that he gets changed, which makes him talk in that lower tone based on what he hears through his headphones.

Josh: It's funny, our mate Derek, who has a scooter repair business, but also turned his dyno into a podcasting studio. He talks about that very theory, which is he thinks I talk differently because I'm always wearing the headphones.

Tommy: Yeah, I reckon if you didn't have your headphones on, you'd be talking louder right now because we're out outside.

Daniel: Yeah.

Tommy: And I've noticed you are talking quite softly. Okay. Sorry about that. But you can hear yourself.

Josh: No, I appreciate it.

Daniel: Josh is just sitting there enjoying the sound of his own voice as he speaks.

Josh: He's like, "It's really great." I've actually turned you guys right down. I can barely hear you. I can hear you through my chest. But we're not— there's the phrase, the world famous rooftop, which Southern Cross Austereo sort of pumped up.

Daniel: This isn't that.

Josh: No, this is the, the not so famous one.

Tommy: This is the ugly parking area of the world famous rooftop.

Daniel: The world famous rooftop is just up there. I think we can see it there. They've had some great parties up there. This is kind of attached to the digital side where I think people just come out and have darts and beers.

Tommy: Yeah, there's, there's— and we saw Sandra Sully earlier. Yeah, there's many remaining darts and beers that have been discarded on the ground. That's probably from the weekend. So Gondi, you've worked here, you've worked everywhere. Yeah.

Josh: You're—

Tommy: how long have you been in the radio industry for?

Daniel: I got into the—

Josh: I think Ash's helicopter's arriving. Should we let her know?

Daniel: She's getting picked up now, which is great. That's how she's getting back to the coast. I'm going to get on a Jetstar flight. And that's not a plug, by the way. I'm actually flying Virgin. Don't even know why I rolled out Jetstar.

Josh: Get all the credit lines you can.

Daniel: I got into— I'm 32 now and I got into radio when I was 15 or 16 doing movie reviews at my local radio station. So what was that?

Tommy: What was your local?

Daniel: It was Coast FM in Mandurah, 97.3, and I worked at the local cinema there and I was always interested in radio. And the general manager said, we actually are looking for someone to do movie reviews at the local cinema. Do you want to do that? And it was a great foot in the door. Yeah, but then it probably took another 2 or 3 years before I landed like a full-time gig. So I've clicked over the 10-year mark, but I've worked a lot of behind-the-scenes kind of stuff on big shows like Ryan Monte and Whipper when they were doing the Nova Drive Show into the Fitzie and Whipper days. I was there with the start of them. So I've done a lot of stuff kind of behind the scenes with them and probably the last 3 years I've been hosting my own show.

Tommy: Yeah.

Daniel: Which is why I found I had to kind of move out of the cities to get that gig. And I was working at Nova in Brisbane, which is a radio station here in Australia, doing a weekend show with Jonathan Brown, who's a footballer who's now on the Breakfast Show in Melbourne. Now on the Breakfast Show in Melbourne. So yeah, he ditched me and I thought, oh, I'm going to have a crack at this as well. And I haven't played 300 games of footy, so it's a bit of a longer road, but it's, it's one I'm willing to take. So Yeah, I've clocked over 10 years of full-time radio work.

Tommy: I think I said to Josh that there was one point in time, and this is when we were hanging out when you were in Melbourne living here and working on Nova, and we'd frequent Boutique together.

Daniel: That's right.

Josh: There we go.

Tommy: But so you're on that breakfast show and your name's Dan, or they use you— Gornie's your nickname. Gornie's your surname. Gorn.

Daniel: Gorn's my surname.

Tommy: So Gornie, but your real name's Dan. And they had you anchoring and there was Dan one week and then I, because I used to listen mainly because you're on there, I liked, and I liked your input. And then all of a sudden there's a Dan in there, but it's not fucking you. Yes. Gondi's gone.

Josh: Yeah, you can relate to this because this is how many Tommy, haven't we had multiple Tommy's?

Tommy: Tommy came in after me.

Daniel: That's right.

Tommy: After me and Shepparton. What happened? I didn't know what happened then.

Daniel: Yeah, so I was anchoring Hughesy and Kate, uh, that was 2012, and, uh, Hughesy wanted me to be Dan because Gondi and Hughesy, I don't know, just too similar. So he said, let's just go with Dan. Probably threatening. Yeah, like I'm going to take his role. No, so he— I get it. Well, no, they just said, we think Dan role's a bit easier than, than Gondi. So I went with that.

Josh: And then 10 months later, you didn't get Hughesy to change his name to Dave?

Daniel: I did suggest it, but as a 26-year-old coming into that role, they were like, you'll be called whatever we want. And I've had some crazy radio names.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: When I worked here, Little Bitch, which was your last name.

Daniel: That's what I was commonly known as off the air. But even when I was here at Triple M in Melbourne, when I was younger than that, I was the G-Tram because I was in Melbourne. I had to have a crazy name, so they called me the G-Tram.

Josh: It really rolls off the tongue.

Daniel: So I had to roll with that. But just back to the Nova thing, I went back to Nova in Sydney to rejoin the Fitzie and Wippa show, and Dan Anstey took over from me. So I left as Dan, he started at Dan, and then even a year later I was getting people messaging me going, oh, I love that bit you did on the radio. Yeah, I said, mate, I haven't been there in a year. People didn't even really know. It was just this easy transition.

Tommy: I had to double, double take. I was like, hang on. Yeah, that is not your voice. And I think it was like, I want— they must have at some point just done one announcement. It's like, I reckon we can probably get away with not doing any more than one announcement because of the same name.

Daniel: I didn't even know if it was announced. I think I was just kind of swept under the rug and replaced with a guy by the same name.

Josh: Yeah. What was it like Making the transition from being off air and having a role on air, what's the vibe like? What's the feeling?

Daniel: I went from behind the scenes with Fitzy and Wippa, so I was panelling their show kind of like a Jack Post with Hamish and Andy, and editing a lot of their sketches and prank calls and helping them come up with ideas for parody songs and whatnot. And then I went to anchor the Hughesy and Kate Show, and it's a silent anchor role. Even when Ed Kavali was doing it he wasn't named in the show, was always still Hughesy and Kate. And I've always found that silent third person anchor role really strange. You're kind of there, you're involved, you're in the conversation. It'd be like the three of us here having a chat, but only two people are named in the chat.

Josh: I think Tommy feels like that sometimes.

Daniel: Yeah, you've been left out, mate.

Tommy: Yeah, sometimes.

Daniel: So I always found that a bit weird. And then my goal was always to get my own show with my name in it where you have all the creative control, I guess, and you're kind of running your own thing. So there's a huge difference between, yeah, being that third person and not being— not, not credited because you are, but the ideas aren't yours. You're really just there to facilitate other people's ideas. And it's funny, you're so close to what you want to do as your dream job, which is that for me, but you're not really doing it, if that makes sense. You're not coming up with the ideas, you're just kind of helping someone else create theirs. So I always found that a bit strange, and I think guys like Byron Cook, who are— he's on the Fee Fee Feb and Byron Show in Melbourne. He's managed to change that and now he's named in the show. And I don't know, I think if I'm ever a content director in radio one day, way down the track, I just don't think I would hire anyone that's not maybe good enough to be that third person. I think I just keep looking until I found someone who is actually good enough to, to be that third party in the show. Otherwise, what's the point in being there, I guess? But Hughesy and Kate, such a strong brand. They they didn't want to change it to be Hughesy, Kate and Dan, you know what I mean? It's just a— that's the name of the show.

Tommy: So they make it known that, okay, you can't— don't overstep your mark here.

Daniel: No, not really. Hughesy was always like, get involved more, like, you know what I mean? Like, jump in there a whole lot more. But, you know, it's different because the guys in the studio— so Hughesy and Kate were always like, get into it. And then the programme directors are like, just shut the fuck up. Yeah, shut the fuck up. Yeah, let them talk. You know, they're the stars of the show and you're trying to You know, maybe Dan, I'll replace you with another Dan immediately. Which we did.

Tommy: Don't fuck around.

Josh: But that's really a thing. Like I remember when I was doing digital content for Fifi and Jules, I remember there was a, like you'd be having a certain type of banter with like say Jules or Fifi or whoever it is. And then you'd have people around being like, oh, like having sideline conversations of like, oh, we've got to keep their energy. You gotta, You know, that sort of protection mentality.

Tommy: Talent mentality, right? It's like, is all these conversations going on around the stars?

Josh: Although Fee was probably telling Kerry, hey, can you get Josh away from me because he's fucking pissing me off? And just not saying anything. Did you find being openly ambitious, so actively saying that you wanted to be on air, was that a bit of a turnoff for people, do you think, when you weren't in those positions?

Daniel: I think it's a fine line, isn't it? You know what I mean? You don't want to come across as too keen to push people out of the way, but at the same time you are kind of there to, to show what you've got and take it to that, to that next level. So it's definitely a fine line. It's the same for anyone trying to break into the industry. You got to try and be persistent without being annoying, and it's knowing the balance between, between the two. So it's just picking your moments, I guess.

Josh: Any moment where you feel like you got it wrong, where you're a bit embarrassed of something that you did or said?

Daniel: On that particular show?

Josh: No, on anything. Because I feel like I've definitely had moments where it's like that energy can go one of two ways. It can be great or whatever, or it can be— that excitability can also be used to—

Daniel: uh, no, not, not really where I think I've, I've got it wrong. I actually think with that fine line that I speak of, I probably, I probably edge on the side of being more persistent than not. Like, rather than just playing it cool, I kind of push a little bit harder to— like, when I got the job on the Central Coast where I am now, which is Monday to Friday breakfast, I was sending Mickey Maher and the PD there emails every day to show that I was keen. And like, some people might take that as being annoying, but I guess you've got to show them that that's what you really want, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, wouldn't you rather sit on that side than on the side of playing it too cool? I mean, you guys are recording a show every day.

Josh: Yeah.

Daniel: Do you know what I mean? Like, that's, that's an extreme.

Tommy: Yeah, I definitely didn't utilise that more to my, um, it was probably to my detriment that I didn't actually email people more when I was in the actual network.

Daniel: Yeah.

Tommy: Because I found that people with who are less focused on actually getting their, upping their talent, were doing more of that. Not saying you did that, but the people around me who weren't focusing on actually doing great work were the ones actually shooting off heaps of emails trying to get air cheques from big PDs because they wanted to get in further or advance their career. So it was this funny thing of going, when do you know, when do you decide, okay, I'll go hard on this and then also work hard on my craft.

Daniel: When you went to Shepparton, what did you expect to get out of it when you went to that market? And it's not the biggest market, but what is it, 2 or 3 hours from Melbourne? So you still got access to home, 2 hours. What did you hope to get out of it?

Josh: I was absolutely fanging it.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, I actually did 1 hour and 50 minutes so I could get home. And that was crying as well at the same time. No, I didn't think too much at the time about what I was getting out of it. I had my head down trying to work it all out and actually create lots, which you have to. You got no choice but to do 5 days a week and make content around it. Yeah, I think where I, what I didn't do, and maybe 'cause I didn't actually want to move on into these other markets doing this type. Like I think about what I'm doing now is more in line with what I actually wanna be doing.

Daniel: So why'd you go there?

Tommy: I actually fell into it.

Josh: Oh, right.

Tommy: I literally got asked to do a talent day here, literally in this, in that room right there where I'm pointing to, 1 metre away from us. I did like a test day. Yeah. And there was like Marty Smiley, bunch of people from Big Brother. It was like they got all these people in and they said, this doesn't mean anything. You're not going to get a job from this, but you may in the future be acknowledged or whatever it was. And it was like I had to bring a whole bunch of ideas and he did a whole bunch of talk breaks. And then 3, 4 weeks later, Dave Cameron emailed me at 12 AM and was like, hey mate, would you be interested in a breakfast radio show in regional Victoria? Yeah. And so I literally did that. I wasn't— I was doing some stuff in this business, but I was always aiming for doing more video work.

Daniel: It's funny what the perception is then, because I remember when you got that, I thought, oh, Tommy's going there and you're thinking 2 years there and maybe work your way up. But yeah, I guess you're just kind of taking that role and stunting the growth of other people that actually want to do that.

Tommy: So good on you, mate. No, no, 100%. But I think, I think it took me getting that to realise that it's like, it's not actually like working with a co-host that I don't actually like. Not that I dislike, but they're not my friend. Yeah, I can't do that. And I've said to Ryan, John, you play the game really well. And he didn't really know what the game meant. But I mean, the game of actually working with somebody who you have to see every single day that isn't actually like for what the actual relationship is, where you're having to talk, you communicate, and it's like there's a heightened emotional level to it. I can't do that with somebody that isn't, you know, like I couldn't do it. I couldn't do what I've done with Josh if I actually didn't like him.

Daniel: Right.

Tommy: And have this, especially for no money. Fuck me. 50 grand is what I got paid in Shepparton, and that was just enough. But I saw so many more opportunity in that, which was learning and actually having a go at something, throwing myself into something that I was kind of interested in, but I didn't know if it was the thing.

Daniel: And so what's the point of the daily talk show then? Because again, off the back of you doing Shepparton and then you guys doing this every day, I thought maybe this is just a great stepping stone into hosting something maybe for the both of you. So again, it's not— hosting is not what you want out of it.

Josh: I think we see this as the final stone in some regards.

Daniel: Yeah, this got real sad all of a sudden. This is the end.

Josh: In a positive way, in a positive way where I think like with podcasting, you think about, say, you know, 10 years ago you might want a drive show, a national drive show or whatever it is. But if you look at it now, Hey Mish and Andy specifically on doing a podcast.

Daniel: Yeah.

Josh: And so in a lot of ways we're given the opportunity to have that drive slot now. And so for us I think that there's an empowerment in knowing that we can invest whatever we want into this and we don't have to worry about like, I know the feeling of being in a role where you feel like you're being stunted by what people think that you're capable of versus what you know that you're capable of.

Daniel: And so, and the pressures that come with that too, of trying to prove those people wrong and also the imposter syndrome within yourself where you I have days where I'm like, am I any good at this? And then, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's one of those constant things where you are trying to impress others and prove to yourself that it's something that you can do. So I guess you guys have the creative control to do as you please, and there's no one to answer to but yourself.

Josh: Well, I think about like different roles within radio, say a digital content producer. If I introduce you to a digital content producer, you can straight away sort of have a sense of who they are, where they sort of fit in with the company, what sort of clout they have, all those sorts of things. And that's what I fucking hated about working within radio. And so what we're, you know, Tommy and I have created Big Media Company. That's our new business. And it's the idea that we're pushing all of that away and confusing the fuck out of people because people did like it. We are playing in the same realm that the you know, we're interviewing people like Seth Godin, one of the biggest marketers in the world. We're able to actually do things that, could you imagine if you spoke to your content director and said, hey, I want, we wanna do 2 weeks in the US, we wanna go to New York, we wanna do LA, we wanna be doing, like how hard it would be to get that off the ground at a regional level.

Daniel: Oh, 100%, yeah. And you gotta go, you gotta go through a lot of channels to even make that idea even a possibility. But I guess if you do get it off the ground, they pay for it, so that's good.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel: You guys would've, covered that whole trip and get to do all that.

Josh: And that's a good thing. We're lucky that we have video production as a way, a means to make money. So we're able to fund it through a different area and then invest.

Tommy: I think the creative landscape has never made less sense.

Daniel: That's exciting though.

Tommy: Well, yeah, definitely. Because I think creativity doesn't always make sense. So it's like when we're talking about this podcasting thing and where it's moving to, I think you could look at the radio landscape and go, okay, move to a regional market, which was how it was spun to us. Move to regional market, a couple of years there, then you could maybe move into another spot and then move your way up. It's that classic climbing the ladder. And there's that saying, uh, I climbed the ladder and then realised it was on the wrong wall.

Daniel: Yeah, right.

Tommy: Which is like people getting to the top and going, okay, maybe this isn't the right one. And I definitely felt that. I saw that ladder for me as not one that I wanted to continue climbing.

Daniel: Right.

Tommy: But maybe this one, maybe we'll be like, fuck, I am on the wrong wall.

Josh: I feel like I'm on the right wall climbing the right ladder. I also don't think that necessarily, like, within, say, a context of radio, you have a real clear structure on things. But what about if you wanted to be a mix between a Hamish Blake and a Dave Cameron?

Daniel: Yeah.

Josh: What if you wanted to be the content director and the person on air. And I don't think that in the current landscape, I think it's moving more into that entrepreneurial realm.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But I don't necessarily think that radio has been great at those hybrid roles. You've got to sort of stick into your lane.

Daniel: We'll do one and then the other.

Josh: Yeah.

Daniel: You know what I mean? So you've got to kind of finish your time on air and then become programming or whatever it might be. But with the, with the daily talk show, did you think about doing the weekly talk show? I mean, it's a lot to commit to, isn't it?

Josh: 100%.

Daniel: I think when you're not getting paid and it's, it's something you You got to do it every single day.

Tommy: We wouldn't do it if we didn't like it because it's, it's too much work. And doing it every day is like what you would have learned doing a show every day. You're actually having a chance to come back and try something rather than having a week to think about what you're going to try. You got to try it the next morning.

Daniel: Yeah.

Tommy: So you got to change something quickly. And so there is that rapid learning which you just don't get if you don't do it all the time. And so that's half the thing for us.

Josh: And it's a point of difference too. I think it's working out what is your point of difference. I think that for Tommy and I, it was that we were having conversations every single day. And then—

Daniel: That's a lot for—

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Daniel: I got best mates, but we don't talk every single day. You guys work together, you got the big media company.

Josh: But the thing is that it didn't start out like— So this is our audience, I think, is creatives or people who are in this new world of the future of work, which is that we won't necessarily have one boss, we won't work for one company. We might be, you know, you'll be, you have a little retainer here. And in some regards, like what you're even doing with doing the Tattslotto numbers, doing all that sort of stuff, that is that entrepreneurial way, which is like, I'll make $550 here, I'll make $600 here. Like that freelancing type of lifestyle. That is really conducive to, I think, the type of stuff that we're trying to create for people, which is like, we were having these conversations every day because when you're working from home or working in your own office, you don't— you're not exposed to people.

Daniel: Yeah.

Josh: And when you're dealing with clients who do have big offices and they do have lots of people, you just need to be able to have a sounding board. And so that's what I think we're trying to do is it's like there's— we have people who are, you know, train drivers, who are bloggers, you know, all different types of people.

Tommy: Mums.

Josh: Mums. Yeah. But I think as in your mum.

Daniel: How do you know?

Josh: Yeah, my mum. They reach out to us.

Daniel: Oh, they do? Yeah.

Tommy: We get a lovely message from a mother who is off work and just listens to our show a lot.

Josh: So yeah.

Daniel: Well, hello to her right now.

Josh: And so I think that there's, yeah, there's a lot of opportunity with all this sort of thing. Also the dailytalkshow.com I managed to get for us.

Daniel: Amazing.

Josh: I think it's a pretty killer domain name.

Daniel: So Isn't it funny how entrepreneurship has become cool now? Do you know what I mean? Like, I've watched enough Gary Vee videos to get excited about starting my own business or whatever it might be. But it's really this thing right now that everyone wants to be a part of. But taking that leap is probably the biggest and scariest thing. Like, my fiancée Jamie and I, we looked at starting an app. And we did a course here in Melbourne through— I won't even name him because I paid for the course and it was a bit of a stitch-up, to be honest.

Josh: Did you fly Virgin there?

Daniel: I flew Virgin.

Josh: Yeah, great.

Daniel: Shout out to the guys.

Josh: Are you a Velocity member?

Daniel: I am a Velocity member and also pay for my flights. But yeah, we did this course and there's just so much to it. And this idea of borrowing money off an investor when they're going to give you millions of dollars or whatever it might be, honestly was enough to scare me out of it. Just the thought of gambling and risking someone else's money. And you look at the stats on you know, how many of those succeed and fail. And I listened to your Jules Lund episode as well, and I've chatted to Jules myself. I actually called him with the idea and he didn't mind the idea. But you look at those numbers and so many more are failing than succeeding.

Tommy: So it's just, I think it's finding something within it that is enough to drive you to push through any of that pain. Like what you've done, chipping away for years, 10 years in radio. Would be someone's nightmare because it is hard and there is times when you're like, fuck it, you know, am I some fucking asshole? Dan's replaced me. Yeah, it's like, but then you keep going and so there has to be something within what you're doing that is enough to get you just past, you know, that all that crap.

Daniel: 10 years sounds like a long time, but it hasn't really felt that long to me, you know what I mean? Like you work a year or two here on a show and you do a year or two of this job and I probably only had 3 or 4 jobs and all of a sudden you've wrapped up 10 years.

Josh: Yeah.

Daniel: And it does feel like a long time. But also you go so far down one road, which I have with radio, which I've always loved. So I love doing it, which is probably what keeps you going is— and same with you guys doing this is your love of doing it. But I'm at it. I'm kind of getting to a point now where I don't know how to do anything else. Yeah, I don't have any other skills than, than, than radio, whether it be on the air or behind the scenes. So If I'm to lose my gig, I'm looking at other radio options. I'm not— I don't know what else to do.

Josh: Yeah, I think that it's about the being a hybrid of things as well. Like being able to, you know, that the being good at one thing was very good in the industrial age when you're a cog in a machine or on a conveyor belt and you just had to focus on one thing. Yeah, but I think that the— what I'm excited about is it's like you can The equipment is affordable enough. All of the, you know, there's YouTube videos that you can get to a point where you understand what audio engineers are doing and you can produce your own show.

Daniel: Yeah.

Tommy: The thing about creating what you're doing, there is so many transferable skills now into this modern day in terms of creating something, you know, commercial intelligence.

Josh: Yeah. Just being able to read a conversation and, and that sort of thing. Your, your podcast, what was the thought behind that? What, how did you get to starting that?

Daniel: Well, I always, I love this format of just being able to get on and have a chat, and I've always been thinking up ideas. I mean, I love AFL footy, but I thought, you know, is anyone going to listen to my AFL footy podcast when there's a whole heap out there? And, and it's something that I'm probably going to have to research a lot. Um, so my podcast is called the Radio Randomly Podcast, where I chat to other radio people. And I thought, why not just stick to what I know? It's the easiest thing. I don't really have to research anything because the people I chat to, I keep across anyway. And it's just an extension of the things that I see and hear in radio, which I'll read a lot of articles on Radio Today, which I know this podcast features on, which is great. But I'll read it and I'll go, oh, I want to know a bit more about that. Or Craig Bruce has a podcast called Game Changers where he talks to the people at the top. And I thought, well, What about the people still climbing the ladder who might not get an opportunity to speak on that podcast? And while we can all sit there and listen to Mick Malloy talk about how great it is working an hour a day, yeah, exactly. And at the very top and, and live that luxury, what about the other people that are climbing that ladder and how they go about it? So I've found since chatting to those kind of people, the amount of people that I get messaging me and most of which they're all in radio listening to the podcast, but they're getting a lot out of it because they can relate to those people. They go, that's me right now. And it's interesting to hear that someone might be struggling with a certain department of their role and then other people can relate to that.

Tommy: So let's be honest, it's promotions and it's to promote myself. No, no, no, no. They're struggling with the promotions department. Yes, we all struggle with the promotions department.

Josh: 'Look, we need to get this activation going.' 'Got no budget.' Well, is the, doing the podcast, has it given you a new perspective on radio? And is it a good perspective or is it a negative one?

Daniel: I don't think the perspective has changed. It's, I've always, I don't know what it is I love about it. I guess it's just an exciting industry that I love and I'm excited that I'm alive in a time where it's still relevant. And I do worry about this podcasting and where it might take it, but Are you worried or excited?

Josh: Are they one of the same thing?

Daniel: What's funny, when internet came along and TV, everything's been destined to kill off radio and it's done nothing but make it stronger. So yeah, probably more excited than anything, but it's just been great to be— look, I'll be honest, I'm a creature of convenience and it's just convenient and easy for me to talk to people I don't have to do a lot of research for. So it's literally just turn the mics on and Let's Chat Radio. I already know what it is. And I chatted to a couple of people at the ACRA Radio Awards and they were coming up saying how much they loved it. And one guy even said, it's like I've become the big brother. Like if Craig Bruce is the godfather of the radio podcasting, I'm like the big brother. Yeah. Who gets these people on our level under my wing and gives them a bit of promotion and gives them a leg up in what they're trying to do. So I'm happy to take on that role.

Tommy: What's the— when you start a podcast and you work in the radio industry, what do they— do they say anything to you? Because it is a— I mean, I don't know, is your podcast with the network or is it a separate— you're just doing a side project?

Daniel: I did it as separate. I, um, I just kind of started it up. I ran it by a few people at work and they said, yeah, no worries. And I just sort of started it up. And, um, I then realised how seriously the network and the company take— because they've got Podcast One.

Tommy: Yeah.

Daniel: Uh, how seriously they take that. So I need to now chat to those people now that it's out there. And there's a few episodes out there I do need to chat to them, and I think I'm going to have to change over who I publish the podcast with, given the fact that I use the network facilities and talk to a lot of the talent. So yeah, I mean, it's not something they take lightly, the network, the podcast, especially where you record it through and promote it through.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: What about the having different, because in Australia, if you're listening, you're overseas, there's always been like, you know, different radio shows, they're different companies essentially. So you, it's like a bit of competing. So having someone from another network on your radio show was a bit of a no-no. And what about podcasting, having someone outside of the company, SCA? Is there any—

Daniel: Well, I did, that's what I flagged. So I did, I flagged it with the guys at SCA, and the guy I chatted to said as long as I'm not revealing any secrets of the, of SEA or anything like that. It's, it's more a chat to the person about where they're at and what they're doing. So yeah, they've been fine with it. As it goes though, it's been more SEA people just because it's easier to tee up those chats. Um, and that's probably been the hardest thing of this podcast, and you guys might know what it's like, is teeing up a time where you're available, they're available, you know, when can you make that happen. So that's been the probably the hardest part of of recording the episodes. And like yourself doing the daily talk show where you've committed to daily, I guess it shows a side of me. The reason I called it The Radio Randomly is because I can record it randomly and upload it randomly. That's, that's the reason it's called The Radio Randomly, because I was going to do the radio weekly and do it once a week, and I just found it was too hard to, to produce something up every single week when I don't know whether I'm going to be on the coast or in Melbourne or wherever it might be. So I just thought, fuck it, I'm going to go Radio Randomly and you'll get the episodes when they're out. Yeah, when they're recorded and out.

Josh: You mentioned the ACRES. I feel like I have a love-hate relationship with the ACRES.

Tommy: Have you been, Josh?

Josh: Yeah, I have.

Daniel: I saw a picture of you actually. I was flicking through some of the old photos. I was trying to show my fiancée Jamie what they wear to the ACRES and I'm flicking through and I saw a young you.

Josh: Yeah, you're like, don't wear what Josh was wearing. No, but the, um, yeah, I went to the ACRES. It was actually, I'd finished up at the radio station that I was when I was doing the digital content producer role, we did, I think it might have been Suzuki car swap or some sort of activation type thing. Anyway, we won an award, but the, the idea of awards shows, I just don't know how I feel. I like the, the everyone getting together and being able to see people and getting to sort of talk to people who are outside your normal sort of circle, but the The idea of like the competition behind it, the idea that this show is doing better than the other and that we're gonna have a big sort of circle jerk about it. Like, I don't know.

Daniel: Isn't that with any industry though? There's always these business awards and—

Josh: I feel like some are more sort of like the advertising industry is big on it. But I think even with the Podcast Award, I don't know whether we'll enter.

Daniel: You gotta enter.

Josh: It's good recognition. Yeah. So what, like, that's why I wonder, what is the, what's the gain? What do you see as the gain for, say, within an ACRA quality?

Daniel: Well, for me, like I said, I haven't played 300 games of footy. I'm not a big name comedian. I'm just a radio guy. You know, it's kind of my background. And so for me, it is good promotion if I win, even just getting nominated. So I was up for Best Entertainment Presenter outside of the metro. So it goes country, provincial, where I'm at and on air and, and, uh, and Metro. So even just being named in the top 3 in the country for that, it kind of puts my name up there and they go, oh well, who are we looking at to fill that next kind of Tim Blackwell style role in a Metro? Yeah, um, Gondi's worked at Metro stations, he's been nominated for an Acura for Best Entertainment Presenter, maybe he's a good candidate. So I guess it's just a little bit of good promotion for me. And had I won the award, Tanya Hennessy won on the night. Yeah, I guess it's just, it's something that I can, I can claim, I guess, not having the AFL football career or being on a reality TV show or something like that. It's something I can go, look, I won that based on my on-air work.

Josh: I reckon there'd be more people who would pull you up afterwards and say, hey mate, love the podcast. Yeah. Then remember that you won the award.

Daniel: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, but I'll take both if I can get it.

Tommy: Yeah, award shows are funny. I think it would be good for the radio industry. It makes sense if you can win one to help climb that ladder.

Daniel: Yeah, I just—

Tommy: yeah, for the podcasting stuff, I mean, there is millions of podcasts out there and you're not— you have to enter yourself or you have to enter. So whatever you— so for the, the Podcast Awards It's like, unless you are— it's weird because it isn't like— I know what you're saying, Josh. It's this constructed award ceremony for people that actually submit an entry. For everyone else—

Josh: Well, I just feel the issue I have with it is I think I just, I hate bureaucracy. I hate having to be picked. And so for me, the awards type of stuff plays into that. It gives people power. Yeah. Let's be honest, who actually votes?

Tommy: How does that shit work? Who's actually— who's the people saying one vote for them?

Daniel: And you only submit a minute of audio too, and they sit in a room apparently. I haven't been a part of it, but it's one minute of audio and a cover letter, and they're basing it on that.

Josh: And it's like, what was your one minute?

Daniel: What did you do? My one minute of audio featured Keith Urban. Yeah, because I listened to some previous winners from other years, and they had Keith. Keith is the key to winning. But no, they all had like kind of a big name interview or something attached to it where whoever's judging it obviously goes, oh, this is kind of cool. Like it gets them from the start.

Josh: Maybe we get a Seth Godin. Maybe we could try and get into the app.

Tommy: I got nominated for an award. It was for the breakfast show that I was on. Yeah, like, but I think we had— maybe we had Gerry Halliwell.

Daniel: So you had a celebrity in yours as well?

Tommy: Yeah, I think so.

Daniel: I asked Keith Urban about the middle part in his hair and how he's held on to it for so long. Like, I had that middle part in my hair when I was in high school.

Tommy: What is it, like a different color? No, no, so the middle part, like, you know, the line straight down the middle part.

Daniel: Yeah, so you know, you have that straight down the middle. I think we all have.

Josh: You've got him, Gondi. He's interested.

Daniel: He's like, yeah, he's hooked in. I had that in high school in year 10, so middle part and, uh, straight down the middle. But you know, as you get older, you change hairstyles. If you look at Keith Urban He's had the same hairstyle for, I reckon, 30 years, and that's almost impossible.

Josh: It's a long hair game, isn't it?

Daniel: It's a long hair game.

Josh: Yeah.

Daniel: So I asked him about that.

Tommy: It's still daggy as fuck.

Daniel: Exactly. It's more like, why have you kept it that long? Not how.

Josh: It's a good bit of shade to throw.

Tommy: I remember, yeah, Keith Urban. All I think about is like straightening some sort of fringe that hangs down. He challenges a guy.

Daniel: There's a lot of hair straightener work going on there.

Tommy: There is.

Daniel: Way too much for me.

Josh: And so the, the, um, the podcast, like, I'm super interested in this stuff because the— you see it as a side— like, could you ever imagine doing a podcast as your main thing?

Daniel: I'd love to. I would love to. I don't think radio is probably the right— me chatting to radio people, my audience will be other radio people, so it's pretty niche. I don't know what kind of downloads you guys get for this podcast.

Josh: Get about 12,000 this month.

Daniel: Per episode?

Josh: No, no, no, that's per month. So we only, we get about probably 400 or so listens, but we're being incrementally, we get about 2 extra new listeners every single day. So we think about it like if we do this for, you think about some of the big shows, you think about doing an episode every single day for 5 years. Well, I'm sure would be it sort of.

Daniel: That's a long game, but you'll get 2 per day.

Josh: The thing is you've been doing it for 10 years. So I think it's not like, it's not a crazy long game if it is is the thing that you're doing.

Daniel: Yeah, for sure.

Tommy: What about audience? So your podcast is specifically, you could understand who would listen to your podcast based on the type of content you're creating. For a radio show, you can think about audiences, the people who live in the surrounding areas of Gosford, Central Coast. It's like, but you are having to cast the net so much more broad when it comes to coming up with the style of stuff that you're talking about, the type of content you're talking about. How do you see that as, you know, the difference now that you've got a podcast that speaks to a specific audience and a radio show that speaks to a heap of different demographic?

Daniel: Well, I'd love to eventually get to a point where I am doing a podcast which is a bit more broad than the radio thing, but the reason I started that was to again kind of create a bit of a name for myself within the, the industry. And I'm happy to specifically talk radio, and I get about 500 downloads per episode. Yeah, that's 500 unique radio people listening. I mean, that's a fair number. Yeah, so I'm more than happy with that. I don't really do that for anything other than out of pure interest and love of doing it and just chatting to other people who are in the industry. And then with the radio show each day, that's my outlet to, to cover a lot of topics and do various things, which That brings a whole nother stress in itself because a lot of the time when you're going to fill 3 hours a day, you're talking about things you have no fucking idea about.

Josh: Yeah.

Daniel: And you're literally reading some article on the fly and you've got to sound knowledgeable and know exactly what's going on. So that's something for me that, you know, each day that when I get on the air and host that radio show, a whole lot more thought goes into that. And I guess a lot more pressure I put on myself.

Josh: Yeah.

Daniel: Than the ease of recording a podcast. Like even with this now, with you guys, like, how relaxed is it? You know what I mean? Because you know that we can sit here and just have a chat and talk about being an entrepreneur or the radio industry, which we've all worked in. So the thought is there, but it comes naturally, and that comes with ease. And I think that's what comes with enjoyment of the job and making it easy for you guys to do every single day.

Josh: Yeah. What do you like listening to, you personally, podcast-wise? Just across the board, because you mentioned, you know, that sort of of feeling around talking about stuff that you're not sure on. Do you want to be listening to people who are like that?

Daniel: I listen to a lot of other radio show replay podcasts just to hear what they're talking about and hear what they've covered that we might have and how they've done it differently and maybe compare it and go, is what we're doing good? Oh yeah, we talked about that today, or oh, we covered that this way. So it's kind of like, oh yeah, we're ticking all the boxes. And so I listen to a lot of replay shows. Other than that, I'm a big sports fan, so I'll listen to a lot of NBA basketball podcasts. And, uh, yeah, mainly NBA podcast. But it's funny what you can take out of any— anyone's podcast, you know. You can take a certain style or a topic or, or anything. So it's— you can find gold absolutely anywhere these days. And it's perfect for just driving around, chucking it on, or when you're you know, flying somewhere or driving somewhere. I just love it. The content is endless. And the great thing about listening to other people's radio shows the next day is that you don't get all the— probably not best for me to say because I work in commercial radio, but you just get the content. No ads, no music. You just get them.

Tommy: So you're there for a specific reason of hearing the content.

Daniel: Yeah, exactly. I'd happily listen to someone's show the next day just to get 100% podcast.

Josh: I wonder what the money—

Daniel: people like the live element of radio. I think that's what keeps it alive.

Josh: Well, so Tommy and I are going to— the Daily Talk Show is going live next year.

Daniel: Oh, wow.

Josh: We're going to have video.

Daniel: Every day?

Josh: Yeah, it's not going to start off every day. We'll start off once a week and then we're going to be doing video streaming and all that sort of thing.

Tommy: That's awesome.

Josh: So the definitely there's going to be less and less like especially walking the corridors of Sirius.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: You start to think, okay, like they're borrowing from like there's a bit of podcast sort of element to this. There's the streaming through the satellite sort of like this, all of these elements. Like I'm finding a lot of— I got a SiriusXM subscription and I've got it all set up so I can listen to Howard each day now. And that sort of style, I think terrestrial radio could really borrow from that idea of streaming.

Daniel: I'd love to see that here in Australia. And it's, you know, as exciting as that, you guys are at the forefront of it. Especially here in Australia, to be doing this every single day and racking up those listeners. I mean, it's going to be something that's, you know, you can see it becoming common ground.

Josh: Yeah.

Daniel: So while people might see you doing a show every single day and think that's crazy, it's not really.

Josh: When you look at the scheme of things, you're just building, you know, building on stuff.

Daniel: What's the ultimate dream for you guys? Where do you— I know you've got your big media company. You're going to go live with all this stuff. So what is it, getting paid to do this? What is it?

Tommy: Yeah, I don't see— I mean, we do this because we love it, and I think you become highly rewarded if you do something that you love and it gets good enough. I think the people who are the, you know, famous rich people are probably just doing something that they've been able to be great at. Yeah. And especially the people who have lasted across time. So I think that's the first and foremost goal, and we're just With what we're doing with Big Media Company, it's more about doing the— creating the type of stuff that allows us to bring the most value in an exchange. Yeah, the exchange is obviously money, but it is what we do best, telling storeys through video content. And then this is just the cream on top.

Josh: Yeah, so video for us— like, I was doing video 15 years ago when I was a kid I started freelancing when I was 14. The— when I was doing that, it wasn't— video hadn't popped. It was still— you were burning to DVD and all that sort of thing. So we've seen what happens when there's platforms like Facebook, YouTube making video an option for brands. I reckon if you look at— you just have to look at how many breakfast shows there are around Australia, or you think about the drive shows and then you think about the salaries of what people are on. There's no doubt that there's going to be some sort of transition in the way that the financial system goes within media consumption.

Daniel: And we'll move more towards the video guys?

Josh: Well, no, I think it's not specifically video guys, but I think that there's going to be— essentially what brands are paying for is attention and brand alignment as well. Because if it was just attention, they could literally just pay Facebook a bunch of money for advertising and put their exact messaging. But they see that having Hamish and Andy talk about their product has an additional benefit. Yeah, I think that the future of all of this sort of stuff is we'll create, we'll create a brand and an audience that will then go and watch our live shows. They'll be subscribers and we'll be able to build on there.

Daniel: So I think so brands will come on board. Is that—

Josh: Yeah, so definitely. I think that there's, there's a part of it which is a subscriber model.

Daniel: So that's a scary one though, when you go from this free thing every day to asking people to subscribe.

Josh: Well, I think that it's the, the core of the show I don't think you could charge for. I don't think that— so it would be about what are the additional things that we would be providing. So for instance, saying, okay, well, uh, we could do a, you know, like Stern have their wrap-up shows or stuff like that. You just have additional content which you would then be able to eventually monetize.

Daniel: Wouldn't it be great to get to a point— I remember reading a storey about Ricky Gervais where they had, I think, as a bare minimum, I think it was like 2 million subscribers, and I think they charged a dollar per episode, which is nothing per person. I'll pay a dollar to listen to Ricky Gervais, but going into the studio, recording it, and putting it out there, and knowing that once people download it, it's 2 million bucks.

Josh: Yeah, and you don't—

Daniel: you know what I mean? That's crazy.

Josh: Think about it. If you like, if the benchmark is making a quarter of a mil a year, then you're not— it's not that much, uh, like you're not asking much in regards to the media landscape. There's like, like everyone in a metro, uh, job within a drive time is making a fuck tonne more than that.

Daniel: Yeah.

Josh: So if you think about it like that, I think that it's about being realistic too. I think that the media landscape is going to be way more spread out, and there's probably people who are bringing home 150 grand a year, 200 grand a year, doing pretty well. And less of the, you know, $2 million, $3 million, $4 million.

Tommy: I think for Josh and I, it's an interesting place to be at where you were saying we're trying to build this as big as we can with no thought that it's going to make us money. And we've actually got the interest like it is making us money. Or I think when I, I think when you get paid money, you end up just doing the thing because you're getting paid to do it, if that makes sense. Like when I was in Shepparton showing up, it was a reason to show up. The money thing was a part of the contract, and so it felt like it was sealing the deal. But we've been— we've managed to have that thought and the investment in it like we are, so as if we are, with actually no money coming through the doors. And so we're just planning to build this up. I think people that start— people are starting to realise that it's not as easy as it once was, and it was never that easy. But for instance, maybe Gondi, at the peak of your career, you might have to be doing a podcast full-time, a radio show full-time, you know, and, and spots on a TV show that was equivalent to what someone was getting paid years ago.

Daniel: Yeah.

Tommy: So the work is actually more now than it's ever been because it's spread out. Yeah. And so you have to find that thing that you do love, you know. So for us, we're going to be making documentaries, and, and the podcast will only assist in that. And we get more out of that, and our documentaries will get more out of us doing podcasts, speaking to people like you, than we would if we didn't do any of that. So it is about making an investment with no clear return on it. Yeah. And that's especially in the creative industry. There's a lot of investments that you need to make with no clear return, and that's probably where the success lies.

Josh: Yeah.

Daniel: So if anyone would like to make a donation, just go to the Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: Yeah, we'll take a dollar.

Daniel: Yeah, take a dollar.

Josh: I think it's definitely— I think that people take way too soon as well, right? Like, people are starting their Patreon account episode 1. Yeah. And I, I probably spend $100 a month in supporting different individuals and their podcasts just through believing in this idea. He's pulled out a dollar.

Daniel: I've got a dollar in my pocket.

Josh: First bit of revenue for the Daily Chooks.

Daniel: I'm going to attribute to this episode right here. That's my dollar to you.

Tommy: Turns out it's chocolate.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. Real shit chocolate too, by the way.

Daniel: You should frame that dollar. That's the first dollar for this very episode.

Josh: Mate, that is very true. The, you know, do you—

Daniel: Can I get that back?

Josh: If you were air checking what we're doing, you've listened to some of the shows. With your radio background, what would you change? What do you like?

Daniel: I don't think you can air cheque a podcast with a radio background because radio's chat for 3 minutes, get in, get out, keep it tight, get the songs on.

Josh: But that's what I wonder, because I've been thinking about reaching out to some radio people, you know, people who have had very successful wins on the board. But are there universal qualities that you can take from radio and apply to podcasting and say, obviously it's It's not, you know, did they mention the credit line, the credit line and all that sort of shit. But what are some of those? How would you approach it with the instinct that you have of beyond a radio person but a content person?

Daniel: For this very daily talk show?

Josh: Yeah.

Daniel: Well, the Jules Lund one was fucking long, wasn't it? I got through that though.

Josh: Oh great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got him.

Tommy: We got him.

Daniel: Yeah, I got through that. I got through the end bit where Jules said, if you're still listening, hit me up on Twitter, which I did. I was like, mate, I heard the whole thing. I was still there. But I think if you're interested in the people who are hosting, which are you guys, and I look at it the same with my podcast, with the radio stuff, radio people, if they're taking the time to listen, if anyone's going, the thing with podcasts is that they— the thing with radio is that you're in the car, it's on, it's easy, you take what you can get. But a podcast, I've thought about who I want to listen to. I've gone out of my way to put it on. I've found time out of my day to listen. To it. So, you know, I'm invested in that. So the way I look at it is I never even put a time limit on my podcast because I think, hey, if you're into the radio, you want more.

Josh: It's right.

Daniel: Is that right?

Josh: Yeah, it's randomly as well. You got to keep, keep it random.

Daniel: I need, I need to extend the episodes because who knows when the next one's coming.

Josh: Yeah.

Daniel: So I don't know, I just, I just think as far as time goes, even when you guys said with the Jules Lum one that you felt like it was long, it was over an hour, I didn't think so because I was, I was interested in the conversation. So Yeah, I don't think— and that's what I like about podcasts is that there is no time restraints on it. But I don't know, I guess if the conversation is still flowing and, and that's all good, then you just keep the, keep the thing going.

Josh: What about the challenge of— there's a lot.

Daniel: I think that I do have a midday flight though.

Josh: Okay. So I do have the natural—

Tommy: the checked in.

Daniel: I haven't checked in.

Josh: No. Okay.

Tommy: Check-in baggage?

Daniel: No, I don't.

Tommy: So you're just going straight on.

Daniel: I got my fiancée on the flight. She's actually just pulled up at the radio station now.

Tommy: And I think we're getting a wrap-up.

Josh: Well, no, no, official wrap-up by Gondi. We're fucking made. I'm in the air jet.

Daniel: Well, you did say this was the bottom of the barrel. No, no, this is it. I'd stay and talk all day if I could. Honestly, I love this stuff.

Josh: Yeah. What are you going to listen to on the flight back?

Daniel: This episode. I actually do listen back to a lot of my— people find this weird and I don't know if you guys do this, but I can't listen back to myself. You can't? I listen back to almost everything that I do and not in a way that's like, oh, don't I sound great? It's in a way that, like, my best mate Farron, he played footy for St Kilda.

Josh: Yeah.

Daniel: And North Melbourne. And every week they'd watch their game back.

Tommy: Farron Ray.

Daniel: Farron Ray. Yeah. So every week they'd watch their game back. And it's the reason they watch it back is to pick up on things that they could get better on next time. So that's what I'll do that a lot with our radio show or the podcast that I record. I'll listen back and go and just listen to it from a listener's perspective and go, oh, I could have tightened that up or I could have said that differently. I don't know, I listen to a lot of the work that I do and I don't know if that's weird or— Do you think it helps you? Yeah, definitely.

Tommy: Then that's good. If it wasn't helping you and just listening, the thing is when I listen back to what I'm talking about, I literally can remember the thought that I was having at the moment of saying those words. And I can, it's crazy. Like I can remember my thought process around what I was saying.

Josh: What you, the anxiety that you had.

Tommy: Probably, yeah, especially in those moments, you're like, fuck, I remember saying that. Stressing in my head about that when I was saying this.

Josh: It's always interesting too, because it doesn't translate always to the audio. So I'll have a moment where, like, we did an episode in Los Angeles where they had 4 dogs all going at once, jumping on us. And I just had a cold brew coffee, which I found out after the fact had like 3 times the amount of caffeine as a normal coffee. Yeah, I'm fucking jittery. And I listened to the episode. I was like, actually, I listened to bits just to make sure levels are okay. And I'm like, it didn't sound nearly as bad as the clusterfuck that it was.

Daniel: And a lot of the guests that I have on my podcast as well, they go, oh man, it's so weird talking about myself for 40 minutes. And I say, yeah, you feel weird, but if you go back and listen back, no one can tell, no one can pick up that vibe.

Tommy: So I think there's a performer element in that. I know doing radio, I won't speak for you, but when I had to talk about shit I didn't want to talk about there's a something, there's a level of a performer that has to come out. Yeah. To talk about, you know, your local hardware sponsoring a segment. It's like, oh bro, yeah, you think I really want to talk about that? And so there, there is something that kicks in where for me what I grapple with is it being genuine. And that's what I can't stand about some radio shows is like, you can clearly tell they don't want to talk about X.

Daniel: It is a struggle.

Tommy: Yeah.

Daniel: So yeah, it's, it's also trying to give maybe the audience what they want too. Sometimes you're going to cover off a whole bunch of topics, but yeah, that's probably, that's, that's probably one of the biggest things that I struggle with is talking about things that I might not be all that interested in.

Josh: I think that's a fair, I think that's probably across the board, right? Which is why this wouldn't necessarily translate to a radio show. I don't think that like if Tommy and I were all of a sudden getting sat down as said you need to cover this and that. There's your helicopter coming in. You better go.

Daniel: Take me to my Virgin flight.

Josh: I think that there's an opportunity within this platform of being able to do whatever you want. So we'll wrap it up here. It's the Daily Talk Show. Gondi, mate, you've got to—

Daniel: We got wrapped up by the chopper. Josh is the only one that can hear because he's got the headphones on. All I hear is Josh doing this.

Josh: You know what?

Tommy: The surprise—

Josh: The thing is, people probably won't hear it as loud as what we are, but it's crazy.

Daniel: Honestly, thanks for having me on. I've wanted to come on since you guys kicked this thing off.

Tommy: It's good to know someone has.

Daniel: Seriously, I honestly love it. I don't get a chance to listen to it every day, but when I see episodes that I go, oh, I know that person, I'll have a listen. How'd you go with Sandra Sully?

Josh: So Sandra Sully, episode 200, we didn't end up getting her. But what's happening is we actually are getting her in the coming weeks. So we were still in the US. We reached out to her. We were going to literally do the show. We were going to get back and fly to Sydney to do it and couldn't get a hold of her. And then after we've recorded, she said, hey, slid into my DMs, ready for the podcast.

Tommy: That's Sandra.

Josh: Sandra Sully will be on. Maybe before the end of the year.

Daniel: That's when you know you've made it is when Sandra Sully slides into your DMs. For an update. The day you can actually say Sandra Sully slid into my DMs, that's it. You know you're on to a winner. You got to keep it up.

Tommy: Hey mate, good luck with your wedding.

Daniel: Oh, thank you.

Tommy: Next weekend?

Daniel: Not this weekend. Next weekend.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Lovely.

Daniel: And I'm excited. I'm equally shitting myself at the same time because I get emotional at other people's weddings. And I wrote my vows the other day and I tried to read them at home by myself and I welled up doing that.

Tommy: So, you know what? I thought I was going to be a wreck. And it was the complete opposite. My wife's so emotional and she was the complete opposite. It's weird. I think it's either like the buildup and on the day is like, makes it less emotional. I don't know.

Josh: Or you're a sociopath.

Daniel: Yeah. Cold-hearted.

Tommy: I reckon I'm more emotional now than I've ever been since, you know, being in a relationship with a highly emotional person and being around emotional people like Josh. But I reckon, I don't know, maybe you might surprise yourself. That's all I'll say, because I surprised myself massively.

Daniel: A lot of people say that, and I'm hoping that happens because the last thing I want to do is be— I will cry regardless. There'll be tears and I'll be emotional.

Josh: You're very planned. You've got a full schedule.

Tommy: No, it's about how much money it costs him.

Josh: That's why he's crying.

Daniel: Yes, I've seen the bill. I'll be in tears, don't worry.

Josh: Oh, awesome, mate. Gondi, enjoy your flight back.

Daniel: Thanks, guys.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com. Now that we're in Australia, it's easier. For us to actually get emails onto the show.

Daniel: And donate some cash, guys. They need it.

Josh: Yeah, a dollar.

Daniel: Thanks.