Therapy

Tommy: Wait a minute! Crossface, The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett.

Josh: The Daily Talk Show, episode 201, on the ground in our HQ in Collingwood.

Tommy: This is great.

Josh: H or H?

Tommy: Hey, what did I— I said H.

Josh: HQ.

Tommy: I think, uh, H—

Josh: one of them is a bogan way of saying it.

Tommy: I thought one was just American, potentially.

Josh: Each—

Tommy: H. I haven't thought about how I say those. I don't think about many things I say.

Josh: No. Well, I got, uh— I remember when I was in a film once, I would have been like 16 years old, and I said, um, uh, advertisements in in the film and my mum picked up on it 'cause apparently you say advertisements here. Yeah.

Tommy: Thanks for that pickup, Lynn. And now congratulate me on that I was in a film 'cause I was 16. Versus the pickup. No, hey, I—

Josh: To be clear, it wasn't a very good film. It was more a, it was really weird. It was one of those when you do the film school, like kids programmes and they interview you and ask you questions.

Tommy: Yeah, um, we're back. This is our first episode back in Australia. It's— I definitely am feeling the momentum. We've been working on some good stuff today.

Josh: Yeah, um, bloody fucking, uh, what do we call them? Company values.

Tommy: Yeah, company values, uh, and just looking for our first acquisition. No, we haven't, but, um, it's good. I like, I like the momentum. It was an epic trip.

Josh: Yeah, you're, um, you're talking very loud, which is creating a little bit of a reverb. Oh God, so if you just talk a little bit quieter, you get less of the reverb.

Tommy: You know, the problem is I'm standing up. Yeah, so I'm getting a bit antsy.

Josh: You're a bit like it, like about to charge you. Noise, make some noise, as Ash Williams would say. Um, yeah, no, so this will eventually— where we are right now in Collingwood, we'll, uh, we'll turn this into a studio soon.

Tommy: Yeah, this is The big media company HQ.

Josh: Yeah, H or H, I can't fucking remember. HQ. On the flight, before I got the flight, I went through TSA. Oh yeah? A couple of things with TSA. First of all, they pointed out a, they went through my books, my Seth Godin books and pointed at one of the photos of Seth, you know, about the author. Yeah.

Tommy: Which book is it?

Josh: Which one is it from? It was the, it was the, um, it's the blue, the big blue one, the portal. Yeah, I can't remember. Anyway, uh, she was flicking through it all, pointed at Seth, said he's a scientist, I think.

Tommy: And well, Seth is a bald man.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And you, and you could definitely, I mean, he wears like a lot of suit and ties, so you could think he's a scientist.

Josh: And so I just went with it. Of course you did. But then she said, I think he died in March.

Tommy: Oh God.

Josh: Yeah, so, and so it went from a yes to just a like a, like a half nod because you just don't want to disagree. But it wasn't going too well because before even that, the other TSA officer on the side as I was going through, as I lifted my top, I said, is my belt going to be okay going through? And she said, yeah, it's small enough. And then as I started walking off, I'm like, I don't really have a small belt. And I looked down, wasn't even wearing a belt. So she was— it was clearly she thought was so small that she couldn't even see it.

Tommy: Do you think in these moments where there is like lots of rules in place, you have to— do you think you get a bit awkward in those moments? Like there's a lot of structure. Yeah, going through airport security.

Josh: Well, I'm just— I try and lead with the fact that I know that it's normally a little bit difficult with all my camera gear. So I start telling him how it is. I'm like, we need to take, I need to be able to lay it all flat.

Tommy: Yeah, well, on any of those flights that I took to the US, they'd say in your carry-on luggage, if there's any electrical goods or like, you know, anything, what do they say? Bigger than an iPhone. So bigger than a phone.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Need to take them out. And they would always say, is there anything in there? I said, nah. My camera was in there with all my other technical gear.

Josh: And did they pick up on it?

Tommy: Never once. Yeah, never once did they take me off. Fair enough, I was only on 3 flights over the last 3 months, 4 months. You've been on many flights, so yeah, there's a bit of a difference. Yeah, but I didn't get picked up, so, so it's all good.

Josh: So you've been back a few more days than me. What's the, uh, what's the word on the street? What have I missed out on?

Tommy: Um, you've missed out on the shitty weather, which is lovely. So you've come back to nice weather. Uh, no, I've just been waiting for you to get back so we can get cracking on what we're doing and getting over the jet lag. But I was thinking, as some thoughts on the trip that we took, and I was talking to Amy about this, and I was thinking the type of content we were creating was very different. And I can only go on what I did last time that I went to the States. And we talked— I talked about this, it was like the suck on that Jules Lund. Um, two different types of content. One was almost like shock jock-esque, or like high, um, it was almost like instant response, you know, a bit shocking style of content.

Josh: It's a little bit more like the prank videos or something like that.

Tommy: Close to it.

Josh: And there was even one prank in these. I mean, you did the, the ones that I remember is you kicking a footy. Yeah, in your undies.

Tommy: Yeah, in Times Square.

Josh: And the other one was you asking where a dunny was.

Tommy: Yeah, which they had no clue. Americans thought I was saying Denny's because they don't use the term dunny for a toilet. And many people think Australians don't, but I do. Yeah, where's the dunny?

Josh: So what was the, what was the learning?

Tommy: The learning was the reward on creating that style of content, the shock or the instant reward content or the prank style content, is really high in what you get out of it in the moment.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And it— and for me, it like stimulates that kid in me that was like being a little shit and doing something where, you know, you're sort of in trouble. But think about like the kid in the schoolyard just putting his finger up the teacher and going, I'm out of here. It's like, feels really good. People are giving you like a bit of an adrenaline A bit of adrenaline, but it's, um, it's very— it's, it's not rewarding in an actual, uh, like a life sense or like—

Josh: well, I mean, wanking in the middle of the road would probably give you an adrenaline. Could you imagine the adrenaline rush? Do you reckon it would be good or bad?

Tommy: Well, if you committed to it, it would be heightened. I'll just say it would be a different feeling.

Josh: It probably would be, mate.

Tommy: This is why people do that kind of shit, because it's it's extreme.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so there's, there is a, there is a response within you that is quite extreme. And so you, it's very drug addict-esque that you were trying to get this super high from something.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But what I found from what we were doing, and in the comparison I only have what I can go based on what I'd done before, is super high reward instantly, um, like a hit of drug when I did it in 2012. But our trip was like so much more in alignment with what I value now and what I want to be doing and has this sort of more like it's wholesome value of what you're doing. It's more thoughtful content.

Josh: We're turning into a Christian podcast. It's got that vibe.

Tommy: No, but I was thinking in the moment of like, I'm enjoying this, I love what we're doing, I'm only here because I believe in what we're doing.

Josh: Why am I wearing clothes?

Tommy: No, but seriously, I was like I definitely noticed the difference in comparing the two trips about what, what this type of stuff we were doing. And we, like, my content that I created years ago isn't really serving anyone now. The stuff we did over there, the chats we had, could live on and help people, whereas there was no real helping someone.

Josh: You're proud enough putting it on your LinkedIn, which is—

Tommy: which one?

Josh: Like, no, like as in the stuff that we're doing. Yeah, it feels like it maybe it would be worthwhile in our professional network.

Tommy: Yeah, definitely, definitely. It's interesting the phases you go through in life and what you're putting out there. I get— yeah, I think it's that, and that's I think why what we do is like a bit of an art form because it's like, it's representative, representative of a time in your life, and we'll look back on that trip we did as like a certain time of our life. And what— and it was— I don't know, maybe we'll look at it and go, ah, I don't know, maybe we'll go back to being these wankers in the street.

Josh: Not that I was—

Tommy: fuck, I'm saying I went back to it, I never was there.

Josh: Pretty close.

Tommy: But I was a dude nude in Times Square.

Josh: So in the '90s, was the, uh, what was the learning of being away from Bodhi for— I'm guessing that was the longest time— and Amy?

Tommy: Oh man, kids change so quickly. He's like, his word count upped, and even just—

Josh: Anything to do with you being away? Like, do you think you're slowing him down on the word count?

Tommy: In fact, he was away over the weekend and his word counts shot up again. No, I just actually, I hope that it's just a timing thing, but it was great. Like, it was the longest Amy and I've spent apart And I don't know, maybe it's— maybe— I mean, you've done the opposite. You've been in your—

Josh: in each other's pockets.

Tommy: Yeah, for so— like, it's— that's intense, dude. You— what have you felt from— so sorry, the learning for me, um, being away from my wife, it is good sometimes to have a break.

Josh: Um, any big conversations when you got back of like, hey, like, now that we've been apart for, you know, a couple of weeks, I was feeling this and I've actually now I've had that time apart, I understand this.

Tommy: There was something— oh, this is— we'll go, um, so I, I'm pretty, um, what do you say, I'm, uh, decisive. Is that the term? Uh, or I'm pretty directive in what I want. And, and I think you're a bit like this too. We kind of like, uh, lead the way and, you know, picking what movie we're going to or like what we're going to watch. Or— and, and Amy is a bit, uh, what's the word, agreeable.

Josh: Yeah. But not passive, but just happy to like maybe a bit of a people pleaser or a little bit. Yeah.

Tommy: And so I think for people who are agreeable come across, it actually isn't fazing them, right?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: She's not feeling like I'm, you know, she's like, oh, okay, I see there's some good bits in that, I'll watch that.

Josh: And there can be, I guess there can be a risk with that where it's like when I'm unfazed, like there's certain things that I'm unfazed with which means it defaults to Bree. So for instance, it's like, as we mentioned on the Central Park episode, washing and stuff like that, I'm less phased with those sort of, like her trigger point of when she's like, "We need to do something about this," is way lower than when I start caring.

Tommy: Yeah, exactly. And so I think it can go only so far. And so I had a thought where when I was away, I was like, It's more of a challenge for me to be okay with someone else picking something because I think it's probably I could be a bit of a control freak in some circumstances.

Josh: It was a less of a— because I thought the way that you were sort of talking about the beginning, I thought that might have been more of a learning for Amy that she has to make more decisions. But were you saying that it's actually, it was you being away and realising that I was— was I leading the way in some cases or me personally.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, I think so. My thinking was, which I said to her, and it's funny because she was on the same page with the thought on the other side, the receiving end thought. I mean, she's agreeable, so no, no, she was almost going, okay, maybe it gets to a point where someone is making too many decisions and you start— it's a tipping point where you're like, hang on a second. Yeah, it's like, I actually— like, maybe it's like you're agreeable to the point where you then work out that the agreeable isn't feeling that great. So it goes beyond being agreeable.

Josh: Or you're being agreeable to be a people pleaser rather than agreeable because you don't care. Yeah. So maybe the things that you care about, you start sacrificing or compromising.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Because it's that whole thing, it's like the sales technique, which is like, let's get them into a yes, you know, into a pattern of saying yes, and they're more likely to keep saying yes.

Tommy: Yeah. And then you go, maybe that's not what I actually wanted.

Josh: So it's like, you know, do you like sports? Yes. Do you want to watch the footy on the weekend? Yes. Do you want to sign up for this Foxtel package? Yes. Oh, fuck it, no, I didn't want it. Yeah, it's a bit like that. Yeah. And, um, and so what's— what's— was Amy's Foxtel?

Tommy: So my thought was it is more of a challenge for me to be cool with, um, whatever we're doing, or being, I guess, less agreeable But I see that challenge as something that is not a negative, but if anything, it's more rewarding for our relationship because I probably felt that she was being, there was a strain on there because of some of, because of the type of person I am. And I'm not fucking the most easy person to be around. But I honestly had that only, I don't even know how I had that thought. It just came to me from having a bit of time apart. From, I guess, being so close to each other where every decision you are making is affecting the other person, where you're on the other side of the world, you're just chatting on the phone, how's the baby, how are you, is everything all good? You're not saying let's leave at this time or let's go there.

Josh: And then maybe even you experiencing some of that, uh, general sort of decision-making with someone else like Mary as well.

Tommy: Well, I was on your time as well as you being mine, like I was being Maybe I was giving the pushback that Amy doesn't give, which maybe— interesting—

Josh: being like, uh, Amy's not that fucking bad. We've hung out with Josh. Do you think that could be— was it maybe—

Tommy: that makes sense, that makes sense. And so it's, um, so the week I got back, I had, you know, like, I don't think we actually had that conversation until a little bit— until later in the week. That I got back. And so, you know, give me a couple of days. And I said, because I took— maybe took me a little while to articulate that, what I'm saying now. And she said, I've noticed that, and I was feeling that. So it's like, it's, it's interesting. I think time apart can be, you know, a good thing for perspective. I definitely shifted.

Josh: What was the things that you were leading on that you think that you might have been out of place leading on?

Tommy: Oh, I think, I think for a person like me, it can be little things— what we're watching, what we're eating, where we're going— that don't even feel— because, because the person— it's not like you. I think you'd have an opinion. Nah, I don't feel like that, we're going this. But nah, fuck, then we'd butt heads and come up with something. But, you know, for Amy, it— I don't think it is like that. And that's—

Josh: well, people can see that assertiveness as you being very clear on your decision. Even— but even you and I have been working on that, which is like you have a level of assertiveness sometimes when you don't actually know. Like, it's realising that even though Tommy says, "Nah, go this way, this is the way to go," there's a 50% chance that we're still going the wrong way down the street. And so there's a willingness to, you have a willingness to just back it in when there's still maybe where I would maybe in some of those moments double-check. And Bri is like a triple-checker on things, right? Like if I say, and it can be, you know, and that can create tension where it's like, I'll say, oh, we go this way. And then I'll look at Bri, so I'm like, what are you doing? She's like, I'm just checking on Google Maps. I said, but I know where we're going. Like I've said.

Tommy: Yeah, relationships, you have to, it's being considerate of the other person.

Josh: So what's the actionable items then? When have you picked up on the fact that you've said— I mean, you had the, I guess, luxury of being able to, um, you know, have that time apart with Amy being away, you know, straight after you got back as well, so that she got to experience something a bit different. So you've both come back to the home with a little bit of a reset.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. And so I think it's I don't think there's any harm in trying to be a little bit more selfless in your approach.

Josh: But do you think— I think that you can be those assertive and be selfless at the same time, which can maybe lead to you falling in that, like— So the thing is that I can be a control freak, but it's under the guise— Did you say guise? Under the guise?

Tommy: Who are the two guys?

Josh: Yeah, if you're under the guise.

Tommy: I thought it was the guides.

Josh: Under the guides?

Tommy: Like you're being guided. Under the guides?

Josh: I'm gonna Google under the guise, but I will do two things at once. I'm just gonna Google it. Under the guise. Heard that before. So no, it can be wrapped up in this idea that I'm doing what's best for everyone else, but there's an arrogance in thinking that you know what's best for everyone else.

Tommy: Yeah, that's true.

Josh: So it's like, no, I'm doing this because this is what we, what we, uh, need to do, right?

Tommy: No, but if you question every, every sort of reactive response emotionally that goes on within you, and then say, like you said, do you really care about that?

Josh: Under the guise— G-U-I-S-E, guise.

Tommy: What the f—

Josh: Do you know what? This is going to turn into a word of the day.

Tommy: I don't even know.

Josh: Guess what guise means. If it's under the guise guise.

Tommy: I think it's something to do with guiding, like, um, a map, or like, under the guise. So it's like, watch, watch for live somebody who knows the direction.

Josh: An external form, appearance, or manner of presentation typically concealing the true nature of something. He visited in the guise of an inspector. So that's interesting. So it's like, under the guise, it's like, yeah, it's like, um, it's sort of cloaked in this bullshit, like it's a, it's a fake thing. I think, yeah, I've done a great job there.

Tommy: So yeah, so if you were to question everything, I think, and then re— and maybe I, I quite enjoy questioning how, what my response is to something. And I think that takes perspective, and I a lot of the time don't have it when you're in the moment. And maybe that's what it took, being out of the situation to have some perspective on that. And it is nice to be able to question, okay, is that—

Josh: is there a specific example where you think in the last few nights or whatever where something's happened and you've said, ah, rather than being like, we're watching this or let's do this, it's— you've asked the question, what do you want to do?

Tommy: Uh, no, not, not recently. Not— no, no.

Josh: So the—

Tommy: only because she only got back yesterday from Sydney. And then I had— so 4 days she was up there, and that previous week was that time that I had that sort of realization. We had that conversation.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And, um, and so yeah, hit me up, keep me accountable.

Josh: I mean, working out what to have food-wise is a clusterfuck.

Tommy: I'll tell you what, HelloFresh has helped.

Josh: We had a delicious— this is— this sounds like an integration. I said it should be. I said we should get HelloFresh Fresh On as our first sponsor. But we had like a— you cooked up a carbonara for you and Amy. Amy left her lunchbox in the car, so I, I had the carbonara. Delicious. Little, little bacon bits. Oh, how many eggs? 4 eggs.

Tommy: 4 eggs. Cheddar cheese.

Josh: It was a cheddar—

Tommy: sorry, Parmesan cheese that you thread through carbonara. It's less of— it was less of a like super creamy, fatty, probably healthier for you, a healthier version. Didn't have all the cream and stuff.

Josh: But I loved it, it was so good.

Tommy: But I made that because I knew Amy would be tired and needed food. Like, I think, I think the thing of like having a family, it's like, fuck, you're looking— and it's not a life hack, but it's like you're looking for the moment. And I definitely think ahead more so now than ever to go at what point will that take time for me? It's like the cooking thing. It's like, I don't want to— I want to have food ready so when we get home we've done it. And it's like the amount of times I haven't done that in my life.

Josh: Well, it's so easy and enjoyable too. Like, I think that the biggest element of all of those things is whenever I get asked to do something I don't want to do it, and for whatever reason it sets in my brain if it's a bad thing. If I get asked, it's like it becomes a chore. But I love cooking.

Tommy: Yeah, see, the only time I've seen you cook, it probably takes 7 hours because you're doing a slow roast.

Josh: I'm doing like a slow lamb.

Tommy: Full day. So I can't believe you haven't fucking cooked that for me. Yeah, and Amy.

Josh: Are you sure we haven't had it? No. Okay, well, we'll definitely—

Tommy: You don't have a house.

Josh: We're homeless at the moment.

Tommy: You're homeless?

Josh: We're at the— with the homeless thing. I should— we shouldn't say homeless because we've Just been to the US where it's a real fucking problem. But living—

Tommy: You don't have a home that is—

Josh: It's true.

Tommy: I'm less at home.

Josh: Exactly. Yeah. And so, we're at my parents' place in Rowville for the next— We've only got 3 days until we're headed to— What day? Today's Tuesday. Yeah. We head on Saturday, we start house sitting in Richmond again.

Tommy: Genius. Well, we did a whole bunch of episodes from there.

Josh: Yeah, we had Hamish's episode from there. But yeah, so we're house sitting Bree's old boss again, her place, which is good. And then another friend has reached out who has a great place in Windsor and they're saying, hey, gonna be away December. Yeah. The thing is, do we— the question is, do we just house sit for the next couple of months? Like, because we haven't— We haven't committed to the second one yet. We said, oh yeah, we could do it, let us know, but we haven't sort of pushed on it.

Tommy: You've pulled a James Altucher who ended up Airbnb-ing. That guy, he's a podcast, a quirky dude from New York.

Josh: What did he do?

Tommy: He got rid of his apartment and he just Airbnb's places to live.

Josh: Yeah, because he's like a venture capitalist or something.

Tommy: He's got a bunch of cash, but his whole thing was just getting rid of everything, throwing out stuff and only having Airbnb, 'cause it's like you don't have your own place. So, for the next little while.

Josh: For the next 2 months or whatever. But the thing is that Bree and I were talking about, we've felt slightly anxious being back. Like there's been moments where it's like, you expect when you go away, like you go away for 3, 3 and a half months, there is.

Tommy: 112 days.

Josh: Yeah, there's a sense that you, you're going to— you're really seeking routine, right? So by the time it like— it starts off, you know, you have fun throughout the whole thing, but it definitely— I've, I felt anyway that you get to a point where it's like, I'm looking forward to work, I'm looking forward to this, to the day-to-day grind in some regards of doing stuff. And then you come back and it's not like you flick a switch back to the daily grind. You don't come back because what you're seeking is actually the life in some regards that you left behind, which is the apartment that you had, the, the way that you ordered the food because we didn't cook, but we will start cooking. But you, you have those— the way, yeah, Uber Eats, the way you Uber Eats. But you do have those sort of systems in place. And the thing is that us house sitting is almost just extending the travel.

Tommy: What's counter to that, and I think what you need to also keep in mind, is that the previous life you had took time to create. And so you're in this period of time where it's going to take, you know, a certain amount of time to find the furniture you want, to find the apartment you want, to create the life again that you then live in.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Are you missing being away? Like, are you missing being, um, not sort of— it's a different mindset. You're missing that holiday mindset that you've had for 112 days?

Josh: I think, um, no, I don't think I'm missing it. I think that I've probably— I think that I'm excited about smaller intentional trips. Where they're single-focused. So, I think that with being away for so long, I was still doing a bit of editing, which I enjoyed, and doing the podcast, doing all of these bits and pieces, which maybe diluted some of the experience. I think that Bri and I were expecting that we're going to go away and that you have this real enlightened moment and that you're going to come back super different. But it goes very quickly. I think maybe the trip I did with Envato with Naysan would have been a little bit more— Paul, who trolls us on Reddit, I think, was it Reddit? Yeah, the first Reddit thing we had was, are you going to mention Envato and Naysan again? So there you go, Paul. But no, the Yeah, I think that was maybe more transformational in some regards because it was Bree and I were away apart for 3 months, whereas this, yeah, you just get into it, you get into your own travelling habits.

Tommy: I think maybe when you'll notice it is, and this is what I've found for travel, is the next time you go. So the next time, like, it's like the first time you go away ever on a plane to another country and you'll experience the airport and all of that shit that goes with travel, the annoying stuff as well as the great stuff. But the next time you do it, you just cruise through it. And so then, so I don't know, maybe it's only until the hindsight will be when you feel that enlightenment. It's never the way that it's— there's no— it's not so like you could sell it like 3-month trip around the world and you'll be enlightened.

Josh: You pray love.

Tommy: Well, exactly. That's why you don't buy into the bullshit that ebooks sell about becoming a travel influencer. Yeah, because it's so unique. And so it's not bad that what you've just said, you had an amazing time.

Josh: Well, that's the thing. I think that it's, uh, it's all in the framing. I, I always like to try and give people a realistic view of things to maybe— but you have to have that experience. You have to—

Tommy: you squash their dreams.

Josh: You need to, you need to actually do even even though it's not the magical thing, it sort of, it is because what it does is it makes you appreciate everything else around you. It makes you appreciate your relationship. It makes you appreciate the, you know, it's in some regards, it's, I also love nostalgia. I'm obsessed with looking back.

Tommy: Yeah. So you think, how do you own the, how do you create nostalgia?

Josh: Yeah. Well, so the thing is, how do you have nostalgia? What's going to happen is because that was in the present, like I'm talking about it, if you think about it, all the best things that I think about are always further back. The further back you go, the more sort of I reminisce. Like, yeah. And so I think in some regards it will take a year, 2 years for Bree and I to look back and be like, man, what an experience that was.

Tommy: You know what it is? And Amy and I had a moment of it recently. We were just thinking about being the single parent— so single, sorry, childless. Yeah, marriage, like a childless partnership. And the difference, it's now— oh my God.

Josh: Well, the thing that I notice is it's like, it becomes like when you FaceTime, it's like your attention's on both because you've got this little kid. So then it becomes this like when I would FaceTime Bree when I was away, it was like her and I having this moment. Do you find it difficult because that FaceTime moment is— you've got two beings that you're sort of trying to communicate to?

Tommy: Yeah, 100%. I think the focus— Amy's fine. I like— I need to know more about Bodhi if he's not okay.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so that's the thing, the focus shifts from This is what I think why a lot of, you know, families that, you know, marriages that aren't stable can fall apart, because it is, it is a shift in what the attention is first and foremost for, and that's the child and then the partner.

Josh: Is it a mutually discussed thing where it's like—

Tommy: we talk about it a lot—

Josh: and so it's that thing of, okay, you like, we need to FaceTime, but it's actually not for you and I, it's for you and your son, and No, it's not really separated like that. No, it's a fan, more of a family unit.

Tommy: When I think about FaceTiming, I want to see Bodhi and Navy. Yeah, like I never thought— and of course it's like, show me what Bodhi's doing. You try— I want to get an update. And so it's— but I think it can seem outweighed when you're saying, oh, can I see Bodhi? Or like, um, FaceTime, because you're thinking it's just wanting to see the baby. But that's what you navigate. Someone said to me, what 'What happened when you got married?' I was like, 'Oh, what's the difference of being married?' And I thought, for me, it's, um, the— I never thought there would be much of a difference, but the difference is that it's not a thought anymore. So I don't think about, like, there's thoughts you think about— are people putting pressure on my auntie? Yeah, you know, or my mum saying, 'When are you getting married?' or 'Are you guys getting married?' Like, it just goes. So it shifts it into another gear where for me it felt like there was a whole bunch of stuff that I just wasn't thinking about. And it's not that I was focusing on them before, but I've just noticed that I— that it's not a part of any thinking now. No brain power is dedicated to that. And so it shifts this into another gear. And the same with babies. Yeah, it shifts it into another level of thinking because you, you're forced into, into it with a baby. It's just a different time, period of time that you are required to think differently.

Josh: Do you think that takes a bit of the romanticism out of the relationship?

Tommy: 100%. 100%.

Josh: But even that, like, potentially that marriage, doing the marriage bit, because in the sense of, you know, like that beginning when it's not like it's not all done and like you haven't done the wedding and all that sort of thing.

Tommy: Sex 4 times a day.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Tommy: No, I think it's a different time. And, and, you know, you've been with Bree so long, you're fucking basically married. That you feel like it is a— there's a content feeling being married, I feel, of just like, we're in this, we got this. So it turns into this whole other friendship of just trust, and it's your best friend. And so there is— which you could easily look at the previous, which I don't, and think, oh, it's not as good as it used to be, because I don't— I'm not wired, or I don't think like that, where it's like what's moved into is a better time than previous. Because I— that was a time, that was a period of time in my life. Yeah, be like the person looking back. Maybe this is you, looks back at your childhood, was you peaked? Well, this is useless. Well, big media company, shit house.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: I peaked in grade 4.

Josh: Josh Janson Productions, 2004.

Tommy: And so now is the best time, you're more evolved and you Well, I— it's a storey I'm telling myself that now is the best, and I honestly think, think that. Yeah, I love Amy and it's awesome.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, it's a, um, it's the romantic— keeping, keeping things romantic within the context of something that can be quite operational, you know, in the sense, and utilitarian, especially when you have a kid.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I think, and it can be as simple as even, as you said, it's flexing a different muscle, working as a team to be able to get from one part of, like when Bree, when we discovered that she didn't have her ESTA visa sorted and we had to get her visa in the, like out next to check-in before we got our flight and the, the pressure of doing all of that, all of that teamwork within travel. You know, it's not romantic, but in some regards it like, it brings you closer at the same time.

Tommy: Yeah. Amy and I have done counselling before and we're gonna do it again 'cause it's a different time and it helped heaps. And so it's like—

Josh: Did you do the churchy type of one? 'Cause Amy was, I guess she sort of still is religious to a certain degree. And they offer that as like a service, I think. Do they?

Tommy: I didn't know this.

Josh: I don't know if it's like the Hill— was Amy Hillsong?

Tommy: Yeah, she went to Hillsong.

Josh: Went to Hillsong. I don't know if they— maybe they— I could imagine that the counsellor also plays acoustic guitar.

Tommy: Fuck, I was gonna say, if it's free.

Josh: Yeah, well, I'm pretty sure I remember a friend of mine who— they do sort of like premarital counselling that's provided by the church.

Tommy: Yeah, it's, um, it's so interesting counselling for couples. It's, uh, but, but from what I've— from doing it, it's like you don't feel like it actually— in the moment I didn't feel like it was amazing because you've got to leave with the person.

Josh: That's the thing.

Tommy: Yeah, you go into this thing and talk about—

Josh: so you say all these fucked up things. Yeah, no, but was there resentment in the sense of like you'd say these things? Did it feel like it was a safe space where you'd walk away and feel good, or were there Was that picking at wounds that took time?

Tommy: See, the thing is that we're lucky I don't—

Josh: the— I—

Tommy: we haven't gone to each other with a hacksaw and there's an open wound. So it's like we are in a place— there's things that shitty— shit each other about each other, shit ourselves about each other. You know, there's things that annoy each other about the other person. And so, no, but I— what I do remember is just go walking out. And then, because you, you then have a retrospective conversation with the person that you're at counselling to try and help. Yeah. Or, you know, that you're trying to sort of grow with.

Josh: And so it's a brave type of thing.

Tommy: It was interesting.

Josh: Yeah. What'd you talk about her? Yeah, it's a woman.

Tommy: And then you talk about, oh yeah, I think she was projecting. I think, I think then you get like, I don't know if this is ego speaking, but you're like, I reckon if, you know, she would think that we're quite progressive as a couple, you know, really sort of you know, we're talking about these things already. And so you start going, getting a bit of a win under your belt about like, oh, I don't reckon all the other couples would be talking about this stuff and, you know, taking charge of their marriage.

Josh: That's so funny.

Tommy: But, um, it does, it helps, it helps. Um, oh yeah, what did you write on your— you wrote on your— the photo that we posted from, uh, uh, where were we? In-N-Out in LA. I just thought this, I just want to have a look at this. There's a cute little photo and some nice— a special thanks to the love of my life, Bree, for supporting the podcast, from being cool with me doing close to 100 episodes from our European— Europe holiday to helping Tommy and I run a New York City and LA recording episodes. I fucked that up, but either way, I thought I hadn't said thank you, so thank you to Bree and thank you to you.

Josh: Yeah, and thank you for Amy for like allowing you to do it as well.

Tommy: Well, um, we're getting relationship counseling, wasn't it?

Josh: No. Yeah, sponsored by The Daily Talk Show. Maybe we could get a counsellor to sponsor the show. Yeah, uh, The Daily Talk Show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email tomorrow. Gondi, uh, Dan Gond, Dan Gond from Gondi. Yeah, the, uh, the radio superstar who is in Central Coast, New South Wales, makes a sound like our voices are pieces of shit.

Tommy: Yeah, he's got a plastic bag with shit in it rustling, making noise that sounds like a human talking.

Josh: Yeah, Gondi is the, uh, the— got the classic radio voice. He's a classic broadcaster, and tomorrow we're chatting to him from, uh, Fox FM.

Tommy: Yeah, the world-famous Rooftops, um, ugly cousin, which is the floor down that has all the beer cans and smoking cigarettes.

Josh: Triple M. It's a daily talk show, everyone. We'll see you tomorrow. See you guys.