- October 18, 2018
The Daily Talk Show — Thursday October 18 (Ep 198) – Josh Janssen & Tommy Jackett
Robert ‘Bobby’ Cappuccio has been working in the health and fitness industry for two decades. Having grown up In Brooklyn, New York, Bobby now lives in LA, helping companies and individuals create positive change through mindset shifts. He’s a coach, a keynote speaker and a unique thinker who’s had a fascinating life.
On today’s high energy episode of The Daily Talk Show, Bobby talks about trends vs fads, why switching to sweet potato fries might help weight loss, originating intentions, understanding motivations and what makes a good coach.
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conversation, sometimes worth recording with Josh Janssen and Tommy jacket to daily talk show from Los Angeles. Tommy jacket. Thank you, Josh. We're joined by a special guest Bobby Kampuchea. Thank you. Yes. I have said cappuccino once or twice that's what I was thanking me for not being on the show but thanks for finally getting my
I think I gotta ride because I saw you and we met on Craig hapa. He's camp that he did in the peninsula. You flew out from America to somewhere Yeah, to be one of the speakers. Oh, God. Yeah, that was that was a great weekend. Amazing. We got bunk beds and everything. It's kind of weird. It was full Cool School campus.
Yeah, it's like a self help compound. Yeah. Joe vibes slightly, but I was encapsulated with hearing you speak in your storey, Bobby, because you've had an interesting ride. If we look at our lives like a roller coaster or you know a ride a theme park, yours is been fairly interesting. You couldn't tell that just because I was on the list of speakers that have sort of like if I like anybody knows hops like seriously. They've had to have had an interesting ride. So Craig Craig hapa we've had on the show how did you first meet her? I don't remember hops is one of those guys there's just always seems to have been that Yeah. And I think if I trace it back we have a mutual friends won't really close to Richard Boyd, and hops in how he got started originally, is he was selling more personal training, per location out of like his his gyms that he owned than almost anybody else in the world.
This is like back in the 1990s, before anybody had really structured personal training and figured this out, and SkyDrive hapa, who's doing really, really well. So Richard Boyd, going to another storey, he had up his studio in Nusa. And it was all these questions that people would have. And he didn't know how to answer them. And I'm kind of like ad libbing on behalf of him. So is this this isn't the exact thought he had? Yeah, but this is the thought I think he should have had and it sounds better the way I tell his storey. And he said, I wish there was almost like a hologram next to me, not like Princess Leia, although that would be really cool, but a hologram that every time I had a question, I could turn to this hologram. And I can converse with this hologram that possesses all of the knowledge in the world related to personal training and all the relevant Applied Sciences. And so this way I can give my clients not only valid information
But tools and resources to be at their most resourceful, and getting to where they want to be. So he's sharing this thought with john and Rose, his clients. And you know, they were retired and they had done really well. You know what, why don't we invest in an online business, this is back in the 1990s that you can get all of the world's experts to give the very best information that they've learned through years of trial and error. So back at the time, you know, some of these guys were pretty old, she can have thousands of years collective, not not chronological, obviously, not vampires, thousands of years of expertise, where if you can type in the right search words, a trainer can get information and articles, audios, eventually videos, and he's like, I'm going to go around the world and build this. So the problem is like, he didn't have any authors, so he was writing all the articles himself, but he didn't know anything like massive grammatical errors. like shit was spelt wrong. Usually that was his name.
Other people other than me. Yeah. So his journey led him to crack hapa Yeah. And then eventually he connected with a company I was working with at the time, the National Academy of Sports Medicine. So I was working with an ASM and we were an up and coming certification education company. So we got aligned, he connected me to hopper through some series of events that you know, I don't know, it's probably too intoxicated at the time to properly remember. So yeah, that's it. And so, having done that, in such the early days in the in the 90s, when you see these trends coming back, a sceptical, do you have a different mind when you look at these things? Like, we're going to create this content hub and do all this sort of stuff? What do you think about? Well, depends on the trend, right? Yeah, cuz trends are cyclical, and some of them are actually quite useful. I don't think there's any such thing as an original fault. I know I've never had one. But some trends are their marketing fads. Really, they're not actual trends. When I look at a trend, I think about something that is going to permanently
shift the way we think the way we live. So Uber, I didn't drive my own car here, which is probably good for everybody on the road in Los Angeles, I took an Uber that should try and match not going away. Even if Uber folds tomorrow, unlikely. You know what, rideshare is something that's here to stay. Yeah, Facebook changed the way we communicate. That's not a fad. That's a trend. Right. So Netflix change the way we consume entertainment. In our crushed blockbuster. That's a trend. So we're talking about trends. My question, well, what trends exactly are we talking about? And so do you, I guess, within the fitness and health space, there's a huge amount, like I guess, the difference between a fad and a trend, like it's interesting, making sure there is that distinction. How do you identify this is a fad. So you have say, the ketogenic diet, right. Is that is that a fad? Or is that a trend? Well, I mean, for
What goal? Yeah, whenever somebody asked me something that's kind of like, well, that's like a disclaimer, you're like, a like an attorney. Yeah, that's because if you've been around for a while and you've been around people who base their decisions empirically, not based on emotional anecdotal evidence, well, you know what? My auntie Jane, she lost weight on it. So it must work. You start to realise there's no black and white, there's a grey area. And if you're honest, it's a matter of it depends. So keto keto is great for who for what goal? I mean, it The thing with with nutrition that's interesting, is you can read some research and you have two people who are equally credentialed. It's not like you know, they were raised by a keto family. My dad was keto. His granddad was keto. So I have this keto based bias. And it's like so they go into research, and they have good intentions, and they're both actively vigorous and they're researching their subject matter really well, but they come to two totally
different conclusions. So like you read one book one of these guys writes or an article says will do this then you read article based says Look, I know you read article a that guy's a lunatic you do that you're probably gonna die you did you go there you guess you gotta go vegan, you know, otherwise you're gonna die animals will die and you know, then you're going to have to tell everyone you're vegan like every five minutes. So you got to be committed to this. But you so how do you discern? So I think you got to look at what's the commonality, like what is the same theme that all of these people seem to be talking about? And then had a conversation with a friend of mine, Monica, who has her her degree in nutritional sciences and well, why is this? Why is it that you get success storeys with one person who's on a ketogenic diet, but then somebody who's following a completely different dietary strategy also gets great results because they always talk about their testimonies, right. They don't talk about the people got on it couldn't stick to it failed. Which by the way, is most people National Institute of Health in this country.
They said out of everyone who sets a goal for weight loss, get this 97% of the people either fail to lose the weight or fail to keep it off for a span of five years. So you can either say, Okay, well 97% of the people in the world are fuck with and they're hopeless. And these 3% they're hustling, they're grinding their discipline, they're getting it done. Or you could say, maybe this fundamentally something wrong with the strategy of diet. But original question, what's the commonality? And do we factor in bio individuality? I mean, we're all basically human. It's not like a surgeon cuts open a buys like holy shit. I never saw this before. But within that human structure and human biological systems, there's variants and that variance is important. So I think when you're looking at something couple of questions to ask us, what exactly do I want to get out of this number one, number two, is why
Is this information valid? What research has been done? Has this research been duplicated? So when they say, well, there's a study, what was the methodology of the study? How many people were in this study? Is it even statistically relevant? And, you know, was it ever duplicated? Was there another study? And how do I know if this works for me? What works for me what sustainable? what fits into my lifestyle? Because you know what? I think we all behave when it comes to diets. I think we all behave completely congruent with our core values. Can I share a storey with you? Since we're here right
So I was I was on the beach one day, and that has nothing to do with the actual storey. But I was on the phone. And it was it was a conference call. And I was discussing fitness space matters because that's just what I do. And there's this guy and he you can tell when someone's eavesdropping
doesn't want to appear to be eavesdropping. Oh, that's me on Mac on the page listening in dishonour to the server. So it was this weird guy like Tommy right?
He kept moving closer and closer is kind of like looking at me. And he's really fit and he had just completed a raw completely Tommy
a couple of years back when I was in shy, Jason, so I hang up. And he's looking at me, like kinda like he wants to say something. But he's a bit hesitant and it goes up. So what do you do? I'm like, what my holy shit. I think I'm getting picked up. It's like, I'm really excited. Because I get to go home and tell my wife, baby, I think I still got it. But that's not what it was. So, yeah, anyway, um, because what are you doing? So what do you mean? Well, I wasn't I wasn't trying to listen in on your kind of walk. And it was but you know, I knew I heard you in fitness was like, yeah, I'm in the fitness industry and he launches right into his storey was, you know, my whole life.
I was overweight, and I used to be 400 pounds. I was like, interesting is this Jared from subway?
Not Jared himself was about to say, so
let's get this guy seemed All right. He's normal, right? So we had this non keto type conversation. And he sits down on the bench next to me. And he's like, yeah, you know, I got really sick. And he's just like, you know, it's people that just feel comfortable telling you their whole lives for it is like, and my doctor finally told me that, you know, if I didn't lose weight, I was gonna die. So So what happened? You know, now I'm into this. I'm like, clearly you lost the weight. I mean, you're in great shape, because No, I didn't. I couldn't. I was like, What do you mean, you couldn't lose the weight? Like you kept trying different things and didn't work is no I, I couldn't bring myself to change. My lifestyle is I can't lose weight. I'm Italian. And his name was Paul. He introduced himself sounds like, you know, Paul, I don't think that's a valid genetic thing. Really. Sorry.
I don't know if I gotta call bullshit. He said I grew up in the restaurant business. And he said my most beautiful experiences with my family were around food. The business was around food. You know the holidays around food every day, the family to come together no matter how busy you are, we'd have one meal is around food around the types of food I shouldn't be having. Haha, that's interesting. So well, so what happened? how this happened? He said, Well, I made one small change and that inspired me. So what did you do? Because while I love burgers and fries, and then I heard that it was really healthy to switch from regular fries to sweet potato fries. And in my head, I'm going Paul, when your fries that's a change in flavour. Maybe that's not a healthy habit and also, calorically more dense. But in his mind, yeah, it was
Significant Yeah. And it didn't matter whether or not he was making a healthful choice, in his mind is that one small step. They said, I knew if I could do that, yes, damn, that was like a major accomplishment. Like he nearly dislocated both of his shoulders patting himself on the back doing that, but I could do something else. And and then I said, Well, what if I didn't have any fries whatsoever? What if I had a salad? And that led to these micro changes and micro commitments, which kind of changes self concept. So what he had working in his favour and behaviour change was cognitive dissonance to where he had that inner drive to be consistent. And after a while he'd made so many micro commitments to break those micro commitments would cause a conflict that would cause emotional duress. So it was easier for him to keep going and stop. And he just kept snowballing. I think when it comes to diet fads, the bigger question is, what can you do today? What's one small micro commitment you can make today because
Lot of times when you see people who are always striving and never arriving, the bullshit you hear from self help gurus are well just make better decisions. Banks. That's like somebody is really worried about something going on at work and you go, don't worry. Yeah. Holy shit. Where did you come from? I never thought of that. You lose your wallet. And then my girlfriend says, Where did you leave it last?
Then we wouldn't be in this position is technically good advice. Yeah, but not useful. Yeah. And these are like the same people just just eat less move more. Yeah, that's like telling a drowning person. Hey, why don't you just drown less swim boy? Okay, fine. You basically need strategies that can resolve ambivalence. You know, I mean, I mean, my basic philosophy on why people fail to keep their commitments. It's not because they're lazy, not because they're unmotivated. Because if you take a look at people, most people in other areas of their life
They're really competent. So they might struggle with weight loss, but they've got three businesses, and they're a multimillionaire, and they're surrounded by people who are struggling financially. But they've been able to get that done and overcome a series of hurdles. So where's the incomparable I listen, Oprah I'm like, fuck if Oprah can keep her weight off, what if I can chance to? I have? I mean, let's take a look at Oprah. Because if you would ask most quote unquote, gurus and coaches, why is someone who publicly had an interest in losing weight, made public declarations, and then you saw how go through that struggle of losing weight? Okay, what would you say? And if you didn't say this person was Oprah they go, Well, they just need to make better decisions. They're lazy. They're not disciplined. Yeah. Oprah is one of the most powerful successful people on the planet, and she came from less than nothing. So you're telling me that type of person got there through laziness, lack of motivation.
lack of discipline. Nope. Sorry. So many of us would be billionaires just like Oprah, if that's what it took. Yeah. So there's an incongruent there. And what I think is the biggest reason why we struggle is because of ambivalence. And I define that simply as we want two things that are in opposition. Like when I was five years old, I've wanted a pet kitten, but I also really wanted a pet Hawk. Those two things don't go together. You should put not ever put those two gifts in the same household. Which one is yet? I got neither. Neither is there a bit of analysis paralysis. Do you think in this type of thing where we are trying to make a positive change, but we don't know which one? So is the idea that what you're saying is make the change even if it's the sweet potato fries with the idea that will eventually work out what is right. You got to start somewhere. I think sometimes doing supersedes thinking and I'm the big thinking fat. You know, I think every day I'm thinking right now, as a matter of fact, however, you can overthink, there's gotta be something
Ella element of that where you're perpetually getting ready to get ready because of so much conflicting advice, direction information. And you know what if we have found the perfect human diet that works for everyone, someone is doing a very good job keeping it a secret, because everybody would be on it. So understand, you're never going to have perfect information conditions are never going to be perfect. But at least when you get started, if you can remove the storey and the narratives from the situation, and if you could get past the emotion and just take a look at one or two things are always going to happen. You can you have an anticipated desired result that's going to happen, or something you did not want and did not expect is going to happen. And that's also a very good thing. And if you could prepare yourself for both of those and look at it more analytically, less emotionally. I know that sounds idiotic, because you have a lot of emotional investment. So when this
When disappointing things happen, people become disappointed. Which is how it got a reputation. Yeah, right. You've been in the fitness world for a few decades now where How did you sort of enter into this with with this your? What do you see your storey starting that you share with people?
Well, I had a strong conflict. You know, I was born physically deformed, right? So I have facial deformity. And I know people can't see me right now, but most of the times I say this on a live audience, people like facial deformity. You mean it was worse than this?
And that's surprising for a lot of people. So my legs were a little bit disfigured, my face was deformed. And so that was horrible. And then I went through a lot of violence in the household. I'm not even gonna get into that but but a lot of sexual violence, physical emotional violence, and I got to a point where, you know, I had Tourette's as well. So I was this like, not only physically deformed kid, but I was twitching and you know, then I had like,
These outbursts, and like this, this vulgar, uncontrollable vulgarity and just people just assume that was Australian.
So I needed to do something constructive. team sports were not for me. Because part of Tourette's a lot of my motor skills were a little bit off. Like one day I remember my step father took me out and in front of her advice I was going to teach you how to play baseball right baseball stay here in America. And his instruction consisted of throwing a ball at me hit me right in the face. They had that both very and it rather than gone Okay, let's see what happened. Maybe there's some skill development required. He yelled at me. Do better. Catch it. Catch it. I don't know how to catch screaming at me catch it again. Not very good coaching. Yeah, wait you lastly via wallet.
socialist. All these other kids are watching. He picks up the ball, throws it at me hits me in the face again. So yells at me again, picks up the ball again hits me in the
For the third time, I'm like this game socks. Yeah, I don't know, the point is, but I don't like it. So I wanted to get into something that I could do autonomously. And a lot of other people starting to work out so they could perform better in sport, or they could get noticed. Me, I was trying to work out. So I could be almost invisible. I can just almost disappear and do my own thing. But then something weird started happening. One, I started getting better results than anybody else my age around me anyway. And then I can speculate the reasons as to why that happened. You know, maybe some of its genetic, some of it, you know, had nothing else. So I put a lot of effort into it. And people started to ask like, well, let's ask this freaky looking kid, what he's doing. So when I started giving advice, I became significant for the first time in my life. And in my neighbourhood. There were three strategies that started to emerge one, if I wanted to stop intense bullying, there was violence.
Probably not the best strategy to take with you, you know, solve problems into adulthood, then there was comedy, if I could say something funny, okay, that would stave off an altercation, but it really wouldn't gave me an acceptance, then this strategy started to emerge. I can offer value to people, I have something for the first time my people want. And if I give to other people, as well as realised the only way out of suffering is through contribution. Yeah, I started reading a lot. And it was like magazines like muscle and fiction. You know, it wasn't like real scientific data, but it's all I had, I didn't know the difference. And I was reading it not just for my own purposes, but I had the intention now of sharing everything that I acquired. So that kind of led me to get into the gyms. And this conflict I was going through is I didn't really think that even though I got great results, I didn't consider myself very intelligent. And mostly because my teachers and peers like you're not very intelligent. So I thought
They can't all be wrong. So I thought I'm just going to work harder than everybody else. And I wanted to be a cop. Because I wanted to get into special victims. This is even before it was a TV show. I just thought if I can become police officer, maybe I can help people who are struggling with domestic violence. So I can maybe help a few people that are going through what I went through as a kid. But you know what, there was something else I wanted even more. And I didn't know exactly what that was. And I knew it kind of lived inside the four walls of the gym. And it took me finding a guy, Mitchell Pacifica who was my first real valuable mentor to see more me than I saw myself. And he was the owner of the gym. And how we first got introduced as a member complained about me, because I said, like, I was outwork everybody. So I said, you know, I'm just going to clean equipment, and I was spraying down equipment, but I didn't realise this. There was a guy using equipment behind that piece. So he was doing like a leg extension. I was I was sitting
Brain, his face down with wd 40. So yeah, that kind of runs are you stand up says it's like, there's this mental case. Who's that right downstairs, I want them gone. He's always doing this crazy stuff. He's cleaning the machines. He's, I want to use stuff. He's cleaning it. So the owners like let me see who this is. And he looks over the railing and he sees this weirdo running full speed from one piece of equipment, cleaning it like Armageddon was about to hit. If I don't finish cleaning this machine running today. I want to talk to that kid. He's like, you work really hard. It's like, what do you about why are you here, you know, who hired you? And we became friends. And from there, he's kind of fought that I knew my stuff. He kind of liked my mentality. And he loved my passion for being in the gym. And it was kind of me wanting to live up to his expectations. And he convinced me to not pursue law enforcement and stay in the fitness field.
Then he promoted me against my will. I just want to say, in my defence to management, and that started my fitness career journey. And this was in New York. It was in New York. Yeah. Yeah, I first met him in Brooklyn. Yeah, probably good didn't become a cop. They're pretty full on and what would have a more full on back, back when you were there? Yeah. I mean, the people who, like people who became police officers were back then, were people in our group who either had an extremely strong righting reflex and psychological they had a strong sense of justice, right? They were always the nicest people in the world, until you try to take advantage of someone else. And then the other group where people who, like what kind of would have been criminals themselves, have they not gone into law enforcement? So I never figured that out. It was like either the very best people you're going to meet or the scariest people went that path.
So I don't know. I don't know what kind of police officer I
would have been, it sounded like you were finding your identity through the gym and through these sort of interactions. Were you ever worried that your identity would be attached to that solely? And is there any risk in that and going all in on one thing, and feeling like, everybody isn't there? Because if you ask, you know, this is something I've spent a lot of time thinking about. If you ask anybody, like, Who are you? Who are you really? What are they going to say? What are most people going to tell you? You said a job? Yeah, I'm a doctor. Yeah, you're a doctor. So when you were born, they held up yet another physician here. It's like you weren't a doctor. You weren't born in a lab coat, right? Yeah. Or they say, Well, I'm a mother.
I'm a dad. I'm a brother. No, these are roles. quintessentially, it's not the essence of who you are. And when you say identity. To me, semantics are everything. My first question is define identity and my definition
Identity is the degree to which human beings have an affinity to someone, something, or belonging to a group of people. And if you think about now, Maslow's hierarchy, as a psychological model is quite flawed. And it's flawed for a lot of reasons. But it's also very useful. And let's get past the first one physiological needs. And I mean, most people you talk to, are not starving, they're not going to die if they don't like I don't know, get like the popcorn that's in the middle of the table. So when you go to the other remaining four, or in some interpretations of the model five needs, you've got safety, belonging, then you've got esteem, then you've got self actualization and self transcendence. So all human beings in my mind are walking around preoccupied with four major questions. Am I safe?
do I belong? Am I significant? Right. Am I enough? Do I matter? Am I important and the final question is
Am I inspired? Right? So when you identify so strongly with a position or career, you're getting a few basic human needs met one safety, right? As long as I'm attached to this, I'm safe. Not really. But that's the perception. And I get a sense of belonging, right? You know, I do what? I use corporate jargon. I dress like people in my cooperation dress, whether that's jeans and a T shirt or a certain colour suit. You know, if I do well, and I obey the rules, I get esteem. Am I inspired? Hopefully, not necessary, but I'm getting a few basic human needs met, as long as I identify with what it is I do, but that's not the essence of who I am. I mean, if you strip the essence of who you are down till there's nothing left, that's who you are, who you are is nothing. And let me just explain that because people misinterpret that and they get very upset. I'm not saying
You're worth nothing, you're insignificant. I'm saying you are nothing. And the best example I can use this I dated this woman for a while, who was an extremely talented art artist and South London. And I went to her studio a few times. And she would literally start work by walking into this studio. I was kind of like shared space, and there'd be this empty canvas on her wall. Now, let's say the night before, a really cheeky unscrupulous artist, look to her canvas. I said, I'm going to use this and put all their stuff all of her canvas. She comes in the next morning. What is she able to create?
Not much, and anything she creates, has to be within the confines of what's already been created for her. So she can augment but she can't create a fresh and a new
What if she comes in the next morning? And nobody touched her Canvas? And it's blank? So in other words, what's on it? Nothing? What can she do?
anything she can imagine? And that's the essence of who we are. We confusing things with social media. You know, I see social like the the questions you outline for each one of those core needs.
The straightforward, but I think this, there's so much confusion in the world about because we're getting stimulate stimulation from a bunch of these kids. They're not be Yeah, I mean, we get more sensory input, like within a weekend that I don't know, our grandparents got May, arguably in the course of their entire lifetime, like how could there not be confusion when so many people are competing for mindshare? I mean, it used to be I thought, Facebook
Book was a place you went to to connect with people you haven't seen in a long time and watch some really cool cat videos whilst you're there. Now it's all these like these political people and these political arguments and you know the diets. Oh my god, the keto diet, the Paleo diet, the cabbage diet. It's like holy shit, the pure sashimi diet. I went on that weekend. That was pretty nice. So yeah, I mean, I just made that shit up. But there's all these different diets and I like the vegans versus the Paleo is and nobody really agrees on anything. We're so polarised that you're either you either think like me or entirely wrong. I mean, it's gotten so serious. If you leave like a paleo alone with a vegan, the Paleo might actually eat the vegan. So it's like people can't even communicate or get on with one another. And that's really sad, because we identify so strongly with our opinion on something and people who seem to share that opinion. And Facebook's an easy place to social media in general is an easy place to go. Like find these people and connect with these
These groups, and it's not all bad. You know, I mean, social media. It's a tool, right? I mean, it's like saying, well, microphones microphones are really bad. Or the telephone, you know, it interrupted face to face conversation. Yeah, it also facilitated conversations, you know, we can never really have now if that stops you from going out into the real world and you're a hermit and you don't have socialisation. And you're, I believe that interaction and play and socialisation is essential for brain development and emotional health. But if you're not doing that kind of stuff will not hurt you. But it's not the phone it's it's how much of the tool in what way do you use the tool and to what end? And I think it's too new. So we don't really know how to use this tool yet. Until we know how to answer the question. Am I significant? Once we because when when I asked the question, am I significant? It can be very easy to say okay, well, what are the people around me saying about me? What a you know, and so
How do we actually answer that question? Well, if we use other people was going to be depressed. I mean, if you were if you were standing on a corner handing out gold bricks to everyone who walked by, somebody would videotape that and criticise you on Facebook. Like, what about Platinum? What about people who invest in silver? You're ruining those people's lives. You know, how come I didn't get a break? How come that corner? It's like, everyone's gonna have an opinion you, you could try to live your life as quote unquote, properly good as well, and someone's going to hate you for it. So if I'm basing my self worth, on other people's opinions, it's going to be a hard ride. I mean, at the camp, I talked about originating intention. And that because I mean, I don't have the answer to like any of these questions. Who does? Okay, listen, here's the answer to significance. I've got it figured out. You're either a bullshit artist or you're a lunatic. But here's what's worked for me. And here's what I've used to help.
All other people kind of navigate through quite a turbulent terrain and ocean of information and confusion before I was working with probably one of the favourite my favourite CEOs I've ever worked with, you know, he's he's from he's from n Zed. kind of a weird guy, not because of that, you know,
I love that said it's my favourite third world country. And he's just a beautiful type of dude. And he thinks on a little bit of a, a typical plane, to put it mildly. And when he got into this company, and we were part of his core team, one of the first things he did was get rid of the mission statements. And you know, people freak out. He didn't get rid of the mission statement. Like, what the fuck are we gonna laminate? Here we got a hand out cards, we got up, and he got rid of it, because in his mind, most mission statements, they're running a game. They're just playing a game, because one nobody really knows what the mission means.
Right, like employees, like, what's the mission? And they got to memorise it because some CEO went away read a book, or God forbid, went to a retreat, and then came back and now we got a laminate and memorise stuff, but we don't know what the hell it means is the business I worked at and in the toilet on the wall was like the values had like the, the breakdown of the values and the mission of the business on in the toilet, is I gotta load a ship.
It was bizarre, but yeah, I always read them as I, you haven't, like just putting them up on the wall isn't having cut through and I don't feel them all believe them. Well, because they're, they're usually about a certain group of people and they masquerade as being about something else. And I guess what this guy would call it, it's a racket, right? So when I was growing up in Brooklyn, there was there was candy store, candy shop across the street from me and what was interesting about this shop is when you went into the shop, there wasn't much candy being sold.
So you looked at like the stock and like the shells are kind of barren. Like Yeah, right. You had like a couple of like these jelly type candies, maybe some gummy bears and some melted like chocolate balls. And then in the fridge, there weren't much drinks and you think, how does this place damn business, right? And in the back, the old these video games and these kids would kind of congregate. So if you can imagine, right like this room, we're in that door. Yeah, that door you walk through and over there on that side, like where the TV's hanging on the wall. That's where all the candy was right. And maybe like right here, where this table is, that's where the fridge was. But when you went back out here into the alleyway, that was where all the video games were, and the back of the video games that was the door. And if you were hanging out for any period of time, and and you were there month after month, you were kind of noticed after a while somebody or a couple of kids would slip through that back door, and then they come out later and they would make purchases back there in that door. And that was the real business. So the
candy shop was just the front. Yeah, there was something that was really got. So it was pretending to be a candy shop. But behind that door, that's what the business truly was. So they were running rackets and we do that right? We pretend our intentions are one thing but behind it, there's there's something else going on and and mission statements is an answer to a question. Why do we exist as a company? or Why do I exist? What's my mission? But who's it about? It's about we, it's about I will Peter Drucker, probably one of the greatest business minds of the 20th. And who knows maybe, even though he died in the 20th century, maybe of the 21st century. And that's really impressive because we live in a world where business gurus, well, they seem to outnumber the workforce now, don't that. And he said that the purpose of the business is to create and keep a customer. So sure, a lot of our intention and effort and focus not be on us and I bet on you, that person who were looking to create and keep, so he got rid of the mission statement and he was
There's something called originating intention. And he defined originating intention as something that is so sacred to you, right? That maybe it was the birth of your firstborn. Or maybe it's when you had this realisation you found, like what you want to do, it's something that you are not just passionate about. It is sacred ground. And therefore, you want everybody in the world to have that experience with no conditions attached, not like, hey, if you look like me, or you have the same belief system or the same political agenda, know everybody without reservation without condition. And I think when you identify what that is, and you operate from that, you get a significance from something that is deep and visceral. You know, like if you cut it with a knife, it'll bleed, rather than from some extremely a source like what group accepts me or what
What opinions do I happen to have about this particular issue? Is it just re packaging? a mission statement like it? Is that in itself, like, what tricking us in the tech world, with constantly using new terminology to describe what we might be doing, but then you look back in history, and actually we've done all of this fucking before? Is it really almost as a placebo effect of what we're going to call it something new? as a way of energising and creating relevance to something it's old impact? There are a lot of similarities, but there were two very subtle yet very meaningful distinctions. And the first one is where is your focus? mission statements focus again, on us, we we want you Our purpose is, so it's talking about the core group, right. So if, if you read tribal leadership by David Logan, really good book and he talks about different levels of a tribe and a level three or level
For tribe is driven by level three is like, I'm great. You suck everyone else around me and my company, they suck. I do all the work, this company won't do well, if it wasn't for me. Those people are freaking insidious. Well, that's a whole different subject matter. And level four is kind of like where great where the whole company is aligned by something or nationalism. You know, this country is great, but everybody else they suck. They're the enemy. And it kind of operates off of those levels of tribe to where on the surface it appears to be really positive. But people are definitely excluded and people are definitely feeling iced, originating intention. You're looking 100% out at you. So in a conversation or in a business interaction, my focus is on your benefit. What are your goals and needs and wants and ability
teas. And I think that's powerful. It's not just powerful ideologically, it's powerful. pragmatically, one of the things I do is I work with a group. And we train speakers on how to basically not learn how to project your voice and how to stand. But how to eliminate the intrinsic barriers stop you from just being yourself in front of an audience. And a lot of it's like improv, you know, work. And a lot of its from the performing arts and a lot of its from the business world. And when you choke, You're overthinking your minds on you. Do they like me? Am I saying this correctly? am I explaining this the right way? Am I being accepted? Is this going to move my career forward? Am I going to lose the deal Am I going to make the day and when you're doing that, you get yourself into one to two states, you overthink to the point where you choke or you completely panic. So you're not overthinking now you're not thinking at all. So and you just freeze originating intention one of the practice
Matic things is if I'm focusing on you, what's your storey? What's your need? Not how well can I perform? But what do you require from me? Where do I have no mental focus or reserve to look any more inward? Where I look inward too much? That's where you get performance anxiety. That's where you screw up. So that's one distinction is where originating intention focuses. The other subtle distinction is it is without condition. So yes, intact we have a mission, but these off for our people remember the old This is kind of like antiquated. So I think it's starting to flip with a PC and Mac. Remember when like, like Mac was taken a serious run at PC, and PC was the old guy in a tweed suit. He was kind of bloated and wasn't with it. And Mac was this young savvy kid t shirts and jeans. And it that's kind of like yeah, if you're a Mac user, we want
This for you. But if you're a PC type, you're not one of us. See, that's the difference between mission and originating attention. We want it for everybody. I think size and scale is success to a lot of people now who's someone doing it? Well, what's who's a company that does it really well, that?
Well, you told me that somebody who's in the fitness industry and you're probably going to get me in a lot of trouble. I can tell you people who were on the right track to doing it well, people who I had high hopes for, but when I see companies who are really doing it, well, I see the little guys. Now CrossFit really had its peak, right and I'm not saying it's going away, but it really peaked and what it did is see CrossFit a trend or a fad. Okay, it started a trend. CrossFit is not a trend because in and of itself, CrossFit is not where exercise is going.
Live, but it did provoke a trend, which is community based, culturally oriented exercise. Why won't exercise live in CrossFit? Because there's going to be somebody else that's going to come out because and and you have all these different people with different preferences. So you've got people who go to boot camps now they're like doing the tough mutters or the Spartan races, or it's going to be so cycle or I spoke with the five. Yeah, I spoke to some guy who's doing nightclub based boxing gyms. So a stage comes up and there's smoke, which probably isn't a good idea, but it's kind of cool. And there's like laser shows. And then upstairs, there's a bar. So it's like, you know, it's really stupid to try to motivate people to do something they don't want to do. We keep trying to do that. And we keep struggling. You know, everybody wants to go to the hottest bar in town. Let's just build underneath in the basement, like a boxing class. It sounds very American to do that. Well, he's doing it all over the world, not just in America. So it because
Here's the thing, what is what is it that people don't have to be motivated to do? People always behave in congruence with their core values. So you don't have to motivate someone to go out for dinner with someone who they're attracted to. You don't have to motivate somebody to go out and play their favourite sport, as well like status like going to a dingy gym and lifting weights isn't necessarily great for status, but wearing the best clothes and being seen it applies status is aligned with significance. It will always be a major driver. And that's good. The question is how you go about elevating your status. Does that serve you? Does that make you happy? Or does that make you miserable? And I think when you talk about CrossFit, the best definition I ever got on CrossFit was from Kelly star at who was one of the all stars in the CrossFit community. He owns one of the most successful CrossFit studios in San Francisco and
You know, I was up at his facility doing an interview kind of video interview like this and before we were just having a cup of coffee it's really sad like because a lot of the greatest conversations you have is when the microphones off yeah and Jared subway bit at the beginning before we start recording was pretty good. Yeah, we should record it Yeah. Or maybe not
a piece of shit.
Not you I'm talking about
it Kelly Kelly said, you know, the secret to CrossFit. He was going through like at you know, like the in the Civil War Gettysburg and like the rifles they found scroll through this whole thing. Yeah. And where is going with this was the secret of CrossFit is people belong to each other. And for one another, we exist for one another, we belong to each other. And it's like with CrossFit, you walked into an environment of complete and total belief. And it could be your 400th day there, or it could be day four, and you don't know what the hell you're doing.
Dave bore you made it past day three, oh my god, you're amazing. Like, I'm amazing. Like sit in a cubicle all day long you come here and this giant beast with a tremendous beard, like, and trust me, the men in CrossFit are even more intimidating. And you get these people in front of you. And they're like, you're amazing. You're one of us. It's like you belong to a tribe. You know, it's, it's, it's like a it's like a motorcycle gang with weights. It's a religion. Yeah, it really is. It's got a lot of the same elements of a mass movement. And when you think about the psychosocial dynamic of that, that was CrossFit in my mind's biggest contribution, so people who are doing that really well. It's the guys were opening up independently a 6000 foot personal training studio, and it's like, you know what, there's a big box gym across the street. And there is homogenous as that other big box gym across the industry. Screw that I want to be right here in between both of them, right. Let's use that.
They're marketing come in here because you know what, we're more expensive than those guys. And there's a very good reason, but come into our environment complete and total belief. Let let us ask questions, let us listen to you, let us see, not only if we're a good fit for you, let's see if you're a good fit for us, because we're different than those two guys. And those differences aren't for everyone. But if it's for you, you're absolutely going to love it here. This is going to be one of the most pivotal decisions you ever made in your life. And I'll guarantee you one thing, if you trust us for the first 30 days, because we're not in the business of letting you fail, within 90 days, going to the gym isn't something you're going to wake up and go. I have to do like the rest of these weirdos, we've got training here. You're going to get up and go, Wow, I get to do this today. And that's when you won the game. Let's have a conversation. Those are the people doing it. Well, you talk about CrossFit being a movement. What happens when it goes
from being a movement to the day to day grind, like when you go from beside with, you know, using the apple example, you're the one punching up and you're the cool one to the becoming mainstream. What What can you do? Well, you know, McKinsey, the consulting firm, they have an opinion on this. And they talk about the micro mission. Because I think, you know, your brain is always like, looking for three things. There's three things your brain is most responsive to. One is, you know, like, what's rewarding, like, I've been staring at that popcorn, like plain and, and and like tasteless and crunchy, everything. I love how to life. Right? And, you know, so what's rewarding? And the more important question maybe the most important is, what's the threat? What's threatening your environment? And the third thing is novelty. Right, what's new, what's exciting, our brain responds to what is new. And the second you habituate to something where something that was new is now actually commonplace.
Well, you know what you get into a little bit of a rut, unless you're so intrinsically motivated by it like Harper. Harper will be in the gym six days a week. Now I'm in the gym four or five days a week, he'll be in the gym six, maybe seven days a week for like, yeah, like, the gym could be like on fire, he's going to run in there, grab a barbell run out, he's going to train in the car park. It's pretty optimistic. I don't know, he might save a couple of front desk people, but he's still going to train right there. Other people that can't seem to get themselves to the gym. But there's this micro mission thing where if you're always on a mission together, and the main thing is to get like this is our goal. So we're training for this. I think a lot of times that nullifies or that decreases the chance of that habituation happening, and also really getting in touch what intrinsically motivates you? And luckily, we know what intrinsically motivates you, thanks to researchers like Ryan and DC, the pioneers of self determination theory. intrinsic motivation is based on an arc and arc is
acronym and that acronym stands for autonomy relatedness and challenge. Okay? So autonomy simply means that we do things for our reasons, not other people's reasons. So we might say, Oh, well, people always ask me for my advice, and then they never listen. assholes. Yeah, you know what, they're not looking for you to tell them what to do. They're using you as a sounding board. Yeah. And they're not obligated to take your opinion, as exalted as it might be. People have to make a decision for themselves. Otherwise, they start to feel like their freedoms to choose are being constricted, and that is a threat to survival. If you look at it from an evolutionary perspective, right, we're walking down a path. And I'm with my two other caveman mates, Jeff and George Jefferson. George was very popular caveman names back in the day, as many distinguished archaeologists have now pointed out, and all of a sudden we hear a growl, right and turn around.
Where's Jeff? Jeff has been eaten holy shit 10% of my group. So I've lost resources. I've lost a mate, catastrophic. If I don't have the freedom of choice and distinction to say, Hey, don't walk down that path. There's a Sabre toothed Tiger there, find another path. I'm not gonna survive, my tribe is not going to survive. So when you threaten someone's choice, you threaten their existence on a very small level, but it's significant. So people respond with reactants, which is, you know, pretty much piss off and they don't take your advice. You know, should I break up with him? Yes, you should write why you're so down on him. Well, I'm just saying that because for one, Jane, he's already married. But you know, so, but we run into that all the time. And that's they come to you for advice, and that starts a fight. The second element is relatedness and relatedness is twofold. 1am I in relation to you, do you trust me? Do you know that my interests are vest
in your best interest, and if we're related, it's that whole cliche that nobody cares about how much you know until they know how much you care. Well, that's true. But relatedness also means is what I'm doing related to my highest values. And that's where we get tripped up. Like remember at camp, we did that long confusing exercise. Yeah, why not do a deep immersion exercise at 12? midnight? What could possibly go wrong? But where we talked about conflicting values? Do you remember that that session and that's really important again, because when we say we want something but then we do the exact thing that prevents us from having it. It's usually not something we lack I mean, that happens but it's not a lack of motivation or willpower, passion. Usually it's, there's something else that if we get what we say we want, we sacrifice something else we really want. So what we do has to relate not just to a goal, but to what we value and then the last component and people don't understand this is challenge. You look at kids playing I am
element of challenge and struggle is exciting. Like if a kids playing video games, the last person they want to play is me. Because I'm old, and I'm out of touch and I suck, I'm going to bore this kid this, this kid's gonna smash me in the face with an Xbox, because I'm going to frustrate them. But they don't want to play against their mate who so much better than them, because they're not going to get bored, they're going to get frustrated. So you want to go on a thin line of excitement and frustration. And you want to play against your mate, who's just a little bit better than you because that causes you. So if you're always in an environment like CrossFit, where people struggling to get better, because there's friendly competition, you're feeling that challenge. Challenge within the right dose is an antidote for boredom, as long as they're relatedness and autonomy. I feel like these conversations are somewhat a feeling of enlightenment around the bullshit that is thrown at us in this world.
Like navigating the bullshit online of self development and exercise and all these things, what I think about is the people who are actually dishing up this advice or specific informational selling courses and thinking about them as people, and how are they doing this? Do they realise what they're doing? You know, I think they use a couple of strategies that are very effective. Whether they use them deliberately or unwittingly, because a lot of stuff like, like I was having a conversation about Gary Vee, on the way over here in the, in the Uber, and with the human driver or with Uber driver, the driver was hustling, hustling, and he was in the grind blogging.
I love Gary Vee. Gary Vee taught me a really important lesson because when I first started watching his videos, fuck is this white guy. Why are you yelling at me? It's like, holy shit. I'm just having a coffee. All right, I'm working. I'm working. What's it to you? anyway? How am I
hurting your life. And then somebody said something that was kind of interesting. So, you know, before you judge Gary Vee, why don't you buy one of his books and read it, then make a decision. I was like, holy shit. Yeah. All right, because my assumption is usually incorrect on a lot of things. So I'm reading the book, which one did the first one I bought was crush it. Okay. Yeah. And I got them instantly. And you know, I got it because I grew up with Gary Vee, not Gary Vee himself. But people like Gary Vee. You know, he comes from an immigrant family. He grew up really hard. family didn't have anything and they worked up to having something he lived in Queens, so he's got this fast Matic personality not too dissimilar from Brooklynites like myself. And I get the sense this guy really gives a shit about people. There's a sense of urgency like he really wants to give people tools. The problem is when people try to emulate him without having that intention behind it, and then you're just yelling at people like you're not working hard enough.
Like this, anybody read a meme? This is work for it and go, Oh, wow, yeah, I'm gonna get my shit together. Today is going to be a new day. No people who read that you reinforce and perpetuate the same patterns that gets them stuck in the first place. And the only people go Yeah, are the people who are already there. But what you get to actually do, and this is this is a great strategy when you want to create a mass movement is you tell people something like only 5% of the population is going to resonate with this. It's because they suck. They're not willing to work for it. They don't have what it takes. They're making bad decisions. They can afford to lose weight or join a gym, they have an iPhone, you know what type of person that is, but you're not like them. You're like us, and sounds like the political landscape. instantly. It's like, I'm a five percenter and the guy was writing this like the picture of a Lamborghini. Like I know one of these guys does the
Success talks and teach, ya know, tai lopez dude.
Literally the guy struggles keeping his lights on. Yeah, I'm like, come on, what are you doing? Like people are not. They're not the enemy. They're not what about this? What about trying to identify? What are the constraints? Like somebody really wants this over here, but they're over here. What's stopping them from having that? And what executable strategies can you give someone where they can utilise that? So if you're telling somebody what to do, first of all, you're not a coach. Because that is not like like get your shit together is not a coaching strategy. Show me one peer reviewed piece of research show me like one like school of thought, a motivational interviewing or appreciative inquiry or any type of, of evidence based coaching strategy that utilises that what is getting
TV then what area is he playing? And if he's not a he's not a coach, then he's an advisor. Right? Like, I know, I know what I'm doing right? I've done this. Here's what I've done because if you look through crush it, what do you have? You have, here's here's exact steps. Now crush it was written a long time ago. I've read a few of his books since but what I liked about is like I do this 12345 rinse, repeat. Now, here's the thing. That's critical. And when I take a look at doing anything really well, like he's a social media expert. I am by far not, but I look at it in terms of craft. Because, yeah, I have a friend of mine. He says, like the worst thing that can happen to you. You have those days, like as a presenter, you have them where for whatever reason, you wake up and you're just crushed. You know, no pun intended, right? Like you maybe you took a flight and it was delayed. So you don't wake up at 5am to speak at 7am at a breakfast, but you didn't get your hotel room until two and usually
Have the worst day. That's not the worst thing that can happen to you. Here's the worst thing that can happen to you in any domain of life, you get up and you for whatever reason, you have an amazing day. It's magical. You have a magical first date, right? You have a magical sales presentation, you have a magical meeting. And you have no idea why. And you have no tools to reproduce that. And you struggle, because you don't have a strategy. So in my mind, craft has three elements. It has training, development and tools, right training is, what exactly do I do? What's the strategy? What's the process? What are the steps? tools are? What do I have at my disposal to do that right 10 ways to create a successful podcast, but I need a microphone. I need technology. Otherwise, I can have a very good podcast, even though I know exactly how to do it. But then there's also this being asked
Fact, which is development, development is not the ongoing result of training, that, that that's why people like are so cynical sometimes because you go to a company meeting and they tell you what to do training don't give you any tools. So they tell you what, but they don't discuss the why or the how, knowing what to do without how to do it is relevant it would you agree, and they say it louder. So if you don't get it, well, let's sit you down again, go through the same 140 slides. And I'll just say it more emphatically. And if you still don't get it, I'm just gonna have to replace you. Where what's missing is the how which is tools and the why, knowing your why. So when you have someone who gives you process and who gives you tools, that's very valuable, but you need other elements. And a lot of the elements are coaching based, which is not a matter of what you pull in. But what you have the skill set to extract from another person through inquiry, rather than
advocacy. It's having the business model that a lot of these coaches and, you know, motivational people out there have created these. Here's what I did now try and do that because it's like the diet, get on keto. Why? Well works make it work for you. And it's, it's hard. I just wonder, these people who are at the top doing these coaching the coaches, if they're legitimately sitting back and in fact, they've all we've got them, we call them or it's like, well, it didn't work for me and they justify to themselves is like, it's okay, because it worked for me. Yeah, I'm optimistic. I think, you know, you do have these people who, you know, I had a conversation with one such lady where she she has a lot of followers on Instagram. I think it's like something like, I'm not gonna say who she is, obviously, she has like, hundred thousand followers. She wrote something and one of her posts about, you know, she's in Australia. And you know, I went through my level three, level four, and I'm like, Oh, cool.
Personal Training certification. I know a little bit about that. And okay. Yeah, sounds like Who did you choose? Because Because one of the companies, it's a company I co founded. So I was like, did you choose that? And if so, why? And as I started speaking to her, she was answering these route, like, what did you learn? What were you looking to learn when you first chose a certification? And what were the skill sets that you thought would be most real? And she's like, I don't learn from certs. I learned from what my clients Teach me. And she's answering. I was like, Oh, you've never gone through a single course life. You just have a lot of images on Instagram. Yeah. So you get that it's like, you know what, whether, you know, you're conning people or not, you're a con. Yeah. What do you think of fake it till you make it? Well, Paul, I just want to say that I think most people who are out there coaching have good intentions. And some of them are amazing, but there's a lot of white noise. And of course, there are some of those people who know what they're doing. And it's because I've worked with some of those people.
You go backstage, and they're horrible as like, Oh my god, I need to get out of here. Fake it till you make it.
I, you know, I think there's a level of inauthenticity there. And I think it's a matter of how you frame that, because it's one of those things that could be very good or very damaging. It's like, Okay, I'm going to pretend like I'm here. But what you're actually doing is you're drawing a very definitive distance between where you think you should be and where you actually are. And that can make that can cause you to compare yourself to other people that can cause you to be very discouraged and and feel like a complete and total failure. Because your identity is not based on what you do daily, but where you should be someday that you're clearly not. So that's the danger where there could be some benefits.
Getting back to what you were talking about with identity.
The thing most people fall back on is, that's just not who I am. I would try that. But I don't do that thing. You know, I just don't dance at weddings. And you know, meanwhile, you're the groom. Okay. Well, that's, that's fair. And you tell yourself this storey limiting belief until it becomes it becomes like, what is the belief that when you say, what's a belief, it's something it's a thought that you have had so emphatically and so frequently, you no longer realise that that's just a thought. It's just the way the world occurs to you. It's just what is in reality. Meanwhile, there's so many variables to that. So you tell yourself this storey based on identity, and I think fake it till you make it. What one version of that is pretend you're being tested for a role in a film where you're the person you want to be. So it's like, I'm going to pretend them there and don't don't go rent a Lamborghini for a day or licencing
That shit on Facebook. When you're driving like a mini First of all, nothing wrong with a mini alright? Second, it's you're telling a lie to yourself that's damaging and you're misrepresenting yourself, but rather focus more on the day to day behaviours. And what gets in the way of the behaviours again is that identity based storey This is who I am. This is who I'm not. Well what if you got cast in a role in a film to play the exact type of person who you most want to be? And there was a certain way this character interacted with people. There's a certain way this character thought, at least what that does, is it dissociate you from that identity storey Well, that's not me. No kidding. Like, like, you know, like Johnny Depp didn't walk around thinking he was freaking Willy Wonka Did he? know he knew he was playing a role is pretty weird. Johnny Depp.
Johnny Depp is almost scary.
But I would love to go out drinking with Johnny Depp and Tim Burton one night. Just putting that out there. And, but what it does is when you take a look at different schools of acting, right like Stanford Meisner was a famous acting coach and I loved his philosophy on what acting was, because he didn't really believe that acting was acting at all. Like when you see a list actor, what they're really good at doing is living truthfully, in an imaginary circumstance. So it's like, okay, so I'm on a spaceship, and there's this alien, like, what the hell is that? But if there really was that situation where I was on a spaceship, and like, I don't know, like something exploded out of Sigourney Weaver. This is exactly how I would respond, which is probably like, pinch myself and pass out conscious, hence why I'm never cast in that role. And that would be me. So I'm not pretending I'm really responding to the situations that
be changing the context. Yeah, exactly. But I'm bringing me to that. Yeah, not not this made up character. So if you could disassociate from the limiting storey long enough to engage in the behaviours, what starts to happen? You start to evaluate those behaviours. We talked about cognitive dissonance. Let me define that. It's the emotional duress that ensues, when you're trying to hold two different worldviews in mind of eventually, you're you want to,
you want to move towards some progressive level of consistency. So when you're engaging in those behaviours, guess what? your beliefs start to shift around the behaviours you're engaging in. So if you're using fake it till you make it in the context of, I was just casting a film. Six months from now I'm going to play this role. So every day I'm going to get up and be that character. I don't know it was that method acting. The status Lawsky crew can tell me more about that. You'll start to interact with people and engage with people
People and and behave in certain ways that are congruent with what you want. I think there's an immediate reward. Because it's not like the person you want to be. It's like this real negative, cynical asshole who insults people all the time. I mean, although that might be fun to play for a while, but it would probably be someone who is a not a different version, but the best version of yourself, you're probably going to get responsiveness to that instantly, that's very rewarding. So it's this ongoing, immediate reward that facilitates the behaviours that helps to shift those beliefs. And that's when I've used faculty market and I don't use it anymore. Don't feel like I think I mean more alignment with the person who I wanted to be and where I wanted to get to. And at the time, I wasn't there, but I think when you are using it in a genuine approach, and it actually aligns with the person that you then become from it, any of the faking it or I want to be this and then I start to live in a
alignment with ass and then you get past it. I think people take five D make it to another level. Yeah. And you know, like I think you create who you are. It's just like people will be like, well be yourself. Well jeez how many layers of storeys it's like the film inception. How many yourself? Do I go through trying to get to that? It's like don't don't go out and find yourself. Create yourself. Yeah, be yourself or a person that's been, you know, beaten as a kid and is, is maybe not who they want to be or that like what that has shaped of them isn't what they want now and you get that conflict, right. Like when I met Mitchell, it was the scariest situation in my life is about in the gym. Yeah, this was my first mentor, because there was this kid who really wanted to be a trainer who wants to stay there because I felt safe.
And I felt like I finally belonged in a role and I didn't want to grow because that was the only time in my life I ever
felt safe. And this guy's telling me, now you got to move into management. So he actually he actually fired me
one time, because he asked me if I wanted to move into management. I said, No, it's like, well, you know, in this company, there's two directions up or out is like, sorry, Bob used to call me Bob. Like 19 called me Bob was like, all right. He's like, sorry, Bob. You're done. So he sacks me. And then I'm just I'm leaving the gym. I don't know what to do. It's a total state of shock. Like, that's my whole world. That comes up to me. He was a bob and he really sounds just like that to this day. He goes, I heard a rumour that
you're recently unemployed. Sorry about that. Bad break, Said. I'll tell you what, though.
I've got a lead for you. Tomorrow. we're interviewing for a head trainer position. Being that you probably aren't doing much. Why don't you come in if you got nothing to lose?
Has the mind games on bob
Mitchell, he was not gonna let me sit back and opt out of life. I mean, Mitt Mitchell if he tries harder at light, so he's he's a guy that by age 30, he was like arrested like 26 times. That's not why I chose him as a mentor. But he's someone who went through because a lot of people was like giving me advice. It's like, you don't understand my world. You know, like, at five years old, you go to a paediatrician. So what do you want to be when you grow up? Like for me, alive made a life that's all I wanted to be. So a lot of people I couldn't relate to them. So Mitchell, I felt like okay, he can kind of get where I'm caught. He didn't have the same experiences. But shit did he have a series of intense experiences of his own. But after coming through all of that, I never met anyone who tried so hard at life. And that inspired me because he wasn't this perfect model.
He was this guy that really wanted something. He strive to be better every day. But along the way, he had these colossal found ups that made him human and relatable. And you could trust this guy and affection his life, right? We are all perfectly imperfect. And if your imperfections all you don't respect people, or you're oppressive on people, because you feel like if they don't live the way you live, they shouldn't have what you have. Well fuck those people. I have no patience for those people. But if your imperfections are, you know what it's been, it's been a journey and it's been complicated. And you've like stared into the abyss, like young said, long enough for the Abyss to stare back and you're really striving yet, you know, sometimes you just don't get shit, right? Because you're a complicated person. I trust and I resonate with those type of people more and I've seen those type of people never announced their virtues or attributes and
Really behave altruistically so much more than the people I'm scared of all the people every five minutes tell you the virtues they possess. Like they tell you how important integrity is in this company. All right, I'm quitting before they tell me about how honest they are. I'm terrified. Yeah, you know, it's usually the, like dysfunctional and the perfectly imperfect individuals that I resonate with and I've seen some inspiring behaviours from Yeah, Bobby capacity I can say why you're friends with Hobbs because one thing you've got in common is there's no bullshit going on and what you're saying my thanks for being on the daily talk show. Hyper daily talk show.com if anyone wants to send us an email where you off to for the rest of the day, what do you what are you doing now? I will be writing and working in coffee shops. Okay Starbucks is Starbucks like the place to go in LA are we scum if we go
out you you know to support local businesses.
The American experience. Oh yeah. Thanks, Bobby.