Maybe It's Greg Behrendt and Amiira Ruotola

Greg: Wait a minute!

Josh: Crossface, the Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett. It's a daily talk show, everyone, from LA. We're in— what part are we in, guys?

Amiira: We are in Studio City, within the City of Angels.

Josh: Okay, great.

Amiira: It's named after all the movie studios that are here in Sweet, sweet Studio City.

Josh: And the voice is yours.

Greg: I thought it was because of studio apartments, just a lot of sad people in singles trying to—

Amiira: No, it's because we have like the, we have the different lots around. We've got the Universal Studios and the DreamWorks Studios.

Greg: Yeah, you're right.

Josh: You might recognise the voices, Amira and Greg from Maybe It's You podcast.

Greg: Maybe It's You podcast. Yeah, that's right.

Tommy: And you might not even recognise my voice because it's going—

Amiira: It does seem a little, a little, a little raspy.

Tommy: Yeah. We've been doing a lot of podcasts and it was much worse than this. And I'm—

Greg: I was right about whose voice belonged to who because I listened to the podcast and then I was like, man, I wonder which one. And I was right. Really? Did it come to you? I just had the one photo and the—

Josh: What was the telltale sign? Yeah, without being too hurtful.

Tommy: Be really hurtful.

Greg: You seem sweeter and you seem cooler. I don't know if that's true. Oh, you see? No, no, no.

Amiira: I mean, like, like, is that accurate?

Josh: I mean, I was trying to show my new fancy New Balance shoes as you were doing to put you off with my coolness.

Amiira: I do like your New Balance shoes, they're pretty cool.

Josh: The only reason I get them is because they fit a wide foot, which is probably less of a cool story.

Greg: And here's the thing, that doesn't mean that you can't have both things, but what people would notice about you first is like, oh, that guy seems pretty sweet, and you're like, that guy might be a little bit cool for me. And then you meet him, you're not, you don't, you know, I don't feel intimidated. But at first I'm like, that's the guy that's going to be an asshole.

Josh: Yeah, no, maybe you're just like, you know, he's read the game or whatever, maybe a pickup artist. He's more likely to peacock potentially, right, than I am.

Tommy: I like to come across more gentle now that I'm married and I've got a 19-month-old baby.

Amiira: Congratulations, that's exciting.

Tommy: So I think that hopefully brings me down to a sweeter level.

Amiira: I feel like you both have very sweet energy and demeanors.

Josh: Oh, thank you.

Tommy: We're Australian, I guess.

Amiira: It could be that.

Tommy: Could be, yeah.

Amiira: I do enjoy Australians.

Tommy: I was going to say, what's cool is it could be actually creepy Gregg for you, for when you were in Australia doing your comedy. You've now got someone from the audience in your house.

Josh: It's true.

Tommy: That could end up really badly.

Josh: That is me.

Greg: Really great.

Tommy: And that's Josh.

Greg: Well, what was it?

Josh: 2012, I was actually going through my Facebook messages. So in 2012, we, Bree and I went to the Headliners and we saw you there.

Greg: Did we talk?

Josh: I Facebook messaged you. I was like, you were our favourite part of the show because you were talking.

Greg: Maybe you talk a lot about this is how we connect.

Josh: You talk about food, tick.

Greg: Fucking love food. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: Uh, you, you have the, you know, you talk about me being sort of the softer one. I feel like we both have potential female qualities.

Greg: Oh yeah, absolutely. I don't need potential, they're actual female qualities.

Amiira: Sure, an extra cup of girl in the mix.

Greg: Yeah, exactly.

Josh: Yeah, very femme. And, um, so no, there was a lot of relatability in what you were talking about. And, and so we did— so Bri and I, uh, not only saw you on in 2012, but we then saw you again when you the show with the clown pants? I feel like you wore clown pants.

Greg: Oh yes, you like in there? Yeah, the clown from the neck down, which is when I came out with Dave, my podcast partner, and we did the podcast out there as well, the walk in the room thing. And I— yeah, that was part of the— yeah.

Amiira: Do you miss being able to shamelessly wear clown pants?

Greg: I do a little bit. There are days where they fit better than other pants, you know, they've got enough elasticity and a little bit more room for—

Tommy: Greg, don't let anyone tell you you can't wear clown pants.

Greg: Well, it's not that I can't, it's that I won't get the things I need if I wear them.

Amiira: They don't help me, they don't take me far. Forward in the world, they regress me in a certain way, especially with teen daughters. Yeah, yeah. If they come home and he's wearing clown pants, they're like, nope.

Greg: But they're, they're just about to hear, because I wanted to explain. Do you remember— I don't know who you're— who, when you saw the triple headline, or who you saw, but just if my daughter's listening to this for any reason, John Mulaney was on the show. So he liked me more than John Mulaney. I'm just saying, that's possible because they love Mulaney. They watch all the specials 3 times. I know it's Todd Barry.

Amiira: One of the biggest energy shifts in the house is when the kids want to talk about John Mulaney.

Josh: Is it like having kids? Is it sort of like having trolls at home all the time? Like, do you feel like you get trolled?

Greg: No, it's just by virtue of the way they live, I find it— like, I— they're lovely to me, but just what they like makes me go, oh, oh really? Because I don't— what he's doing, it doesn't— you know, like, you— it's just, you know, it's a little— if you feel time, yeah, you know, you see time. And also you see what's like for a young person to like something that's new, and you're like, oh right.

Tommy: How old are the kids now?

Greg: 16 and 13.

Amiira: Yeah, we have 2 girls.

Greg: 16, woof.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm, uh, dreading those days for my young son. And you might hear—

Greg: yeah, hey, yeah, that's—

Tommy: I've got a 5th person on the podcast.

Amiira: We have so many dogs here and they're so noisy. We apologise to the listener that have to listen to them drink water or pants near the microphone.

Josh: It's not me making that sound. And do any of the dogs have anxiety?

Amiira: Yeah, no, not these ones.

Greg: No fear, not these ones.

Amiira: I've had dogs with anxiety and it is not Not a lot of fun.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, I'm dealing with my own anxiety. I don't need to worry about another dog as well.

Greg: Topper, come here. Enough, man. What are you doing?

Amiira: Topper is named after the drummer of The Clash.

Greg: Sit down.

Josh: Okay, great.

Tommy: So if people have engaged, you guys are married.

Amiira: We've been married for 18 years.

Greg: Yes.

Amiira: Yeah. Yes, together for about 20.

Tommy: Okay, and you've got your book that's just come out.

Greg: Yes, How to Keep Your Marriage from Sucking.

Amiira: Yes, we wrote a book. We've written other books in the past, but this is part 1 of our marriage series, and it's for like Engagement Through the First 5 Years of Marriage. And then the follow-up is coming out next year, and that's called We Used to Be in Love and Now We Work Here. And that's for all of like the different four-ourses and when kids come along and fuck up your coupledom and that kind of stuff.

Tommy: Well, I'm in the thick of it. I'm 2 years into marriage.

Amiira: Yes.

Tommy: And 19 months into fatherhood.

Amiira: Fatherhood, that's so exciting.

Tommy: Is there a question that you could ask me that would pull out some details to tell you whether my marriage is—

Greg: this is something we'd rather you ask the question. Like, we don't— like, you watch other couples and go, man, they aren't asking, we're not saying, you know.

Amiira: Right.

Greg: The one thing I've learned about self-help is it, it only comes when somebody puts a question at the end. Like, if people tell you stuff in life and you start going, you know what you ought to do— if you start with, you know what you ought to do, no one asked and they don't want to know. Yeah, most of the time I realise like that people really don't want to know until they really do. Um, um, and sometimes it's a shame because you're like, man, you could have learned. I could have told you that.

Amiira: I know we made all that. We made all the mistakes. We figured out, we figured out so much later into our marriage that we had planted all these fantastic landmines for each other to step on, or didn't pay attention, or didn't pay attention, or didn't set boundaries, or respect boundaries, or made accommodations that you don't, you don't think of in the early days, especially when things are relatively new, where you have an infant, and all of a sudden, if it works once, that's what happens. No one's discussed it. It might not be okay 5 years from now, but it's already set in stone because there's no conversations and it worked the one time with the baby, and so that's what happens, or you're the guy that does that. And you find that, you know, you get years into a marriage and you feel invisible, or you're not being heard, you're not being considered, or you didn't agree to this situation that you're in, you're always conceding or you're getting the short end of the stick. And it's because we make these accommodations and agreements without actually conversing and agreeing upon them. It just happens.

Josh: So should, should you be trying to put your worst self forward then in some regards?

Greg: Well, you, you were always—

Amiira: you're a bonus of being in a long-term relationship.

Greg: I also think most people really are themselves. There really isn't that— I mean, you know, you think you've got like, I've got different sides and people don't know, and they're like, no, I could see it, I could, I can tell, you know. And sometimes Sometimes people see things that you don't even, but, um, uh, it's, it's about accepting, A, that, um, uh, the person you picked, you know, there's no person that's not— you're— this is a very common thing with every married couple. It's like everybody gets to this point. You also, you get old and one day you go, fuck, I'm gonna leave at some point, you know. You have this mortality thing, you go, am I having the life I really want? And how come I'm not getting the things I should have gotten? And so there's also that perspective of suddenly you start going back and trying to figure out how you're gonna get happy again or be different or whatever. And, and the person who is going to get all the blame for that will be your spouse because they're the closest and they're the ones that limited you by possibilities, or they didn't encourage me when I should have. Um, and so that's— there's sort of an imaginary thing that you do too. So you have to kind of look at all of that going forward, knowing that that's out there. It just makes it easier. Just go, look, here's a bridge I might cross. Here's another bridge you might cross, you know. Um, uh, some people, uh, when bad things happen, pull back. Some people, when bad things happen, get too close, you know. You have to look at your person and realize, look, what they're doing the best with what they, you know, with what they have, you know.

Tommy: I think I've grown in empathy for couples that have, uh, I guess called it quits years later after the kids have left home, because having the kid and like, it's survival mode, right?

Amiira: Absolutely.

Tommy: I mean, Amy, my wife, and I, we've had to, you know, we talk a lot, and so we are very open in the dialogue of our marriage and what's going on. But if we weren't, you could see how it's just like you're zoned in on this kid. Here's the kid, I'm going to do this work, money, and—

Amiira: Exactly. And you stop being the first consideration in the relationship. You're no longer her number one first thought of the day. Or first lot at any time and vice versa. But there also is, here's the thing that you don't realise is your son is 19 months old. So he probably goes to bed at 7 or 8 o'clock at night.

Tommy: 7 on the dot.

Amiira: Right? So you still have nighttime together where you can actually be a couple and finish conversations and what have you. When your kids get older and they're not going to bed till 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock, 2 AM with ACT testing or whatever, like there, you absolutely get so disconnected, and the time for the relationship, or the couple, the marriage relationship, that's the first thing that goes, because the other things can't wait. You can't change that their schedule is the important one, and their needs are the important things. And so, the first thing to go is each other, or— 'cause then you throw in your obligations of your job, and then your family, before you got married. Like, your parents need things from you, your siblings need things from you, and the— the thing that you're really selling it, we're really making it. You assume, well, my person knows I love them, so they're cool if I don't deal with them today. Yeah, right. They're the first one to be, um, you know, to be disregarded because you assume that your love is strong enough, it's elastic enough that we can stretch it and it's going to bounce back because we both know we love each other. So it's fine if I fuck you over in favour of the child, my parents, my job, what have you. Don't put them outside. Sorry guys, our dogs literally are—

Tommy: Greg's not heckling a mirror.

Amiira: They want all of the attention right now. Oh, oh, oh, oh, wait, wait, wait, Greg. Oh yes, we'll have to timestamp this part for editing.

Josh: This is perfect.

Amiira: You want to take Buddha too? Buddha's over here.

Tommy: Buddha out. And don't throw 3 dogs into the mix of what we've been talking about. The kids, the marriage.

Amiira: Not even kidding. It is.

Tommy: And then career on top of all of that.

Amiira: Yes.

Tommy: I mean, what have you found with having kids, dogs, and then having those responsibilities where you are in survival mode, plus a marriage, and then also wanting to have a career?

Amiira: It's, you know, it can be really challenging. And for a long time, for, you know, the first, I would say, the first few years of having kids, Greg travelled a lot for stand-up. After that, we started writing the books and we started having shows and work in town and we worked together a lot. And so there was sort of that thing where we were forced together for work during that period and then he went back on the road again. So there was a lot of times where he was travelling for work and I was sort of single parenting. And there were times when we were working together and the kids were, you know, when we could see them and my parents helped out. But there's also been times when it's just not— if he's travelling for work, I don't have time to work. I have to be like full-time mom and pick up writing jobs here and there. But you have to raise your children. You can't just expect them to be raised by the internet or other people.

Greg: They cannot be raised by the internet.

Amiira: No, you want them to be good people and feel worthy and secure. They have to be important to their parents. It just is that thing. So it is, there have been times where I've gone years without working because having kids really is, especially young kids, is full-time.

Josh: How do you balance that, especially with say having one spouse who might do a job that's quite individualistic by design? If it's something entertainment, they're travelling a lot, is there actually a conversation where it's like, Greg gets 2 years to do the thing that he wants to do, and then you'll, you know, come back and be at home a lot? Or like, do you feel that there needs to be that constant balance?

Amiira: I do think there needs to— it needs to be agreed upon, you know.

Greg: We didn't have a big— I mean, we, we, um, I mean, look, for us, the being able to go on the road was a nice— I mean, most people don't get that sort of gap in the relationship. So there's a downside that you're not there with your kids, but there's also that you're also not in the way. There's certain points in time where you're just not needed. In a house full of women, people are happy. Sometimes they don't even know you've left. Uh, I did— this is a true answer— in my stand-up act, that my— there was a day where my daughter called me and said, Daddy, are you upstairs? And I'm like, I'm in Denver. 3 days. So how are you? And then she just— she texted me and just sent a bunch of emojis. But yeah, they— but so you do sort of like You know, it's— we've both been sort of, as far as work goes, open to the idea. And look, both of us are like, like, if she got a show or something, quit stand-up in a second and come home. Yeah, I, you know, I love it, but I, I'd be happy to do, you know, the stuff around here. Wouldn't, you know, be okay with me. Um, it's a— the road is—

Amiira: but I definitely think, you know, like, our kids are old enough now that they're pretty self-sufficient at 13 and 16. Our 16-year-old, you know, bringing home the bacon. No, she does have a job. Yeah, she does have a job, but she's also a student and she's a dancer. But, you know, she could drive them to school. They can make a meal. Like, you can leave them at home alone. But, you know, there are times when it just was not possible for me to work.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: They can drive at 16 by themselves?

Amiira: Yes.

Tommy: Crazy.

Greg: Yeah.

Amiira: What is it where you live?

Josh: 18. 18.

Amiira: That's probably good.

Josh: Yeah. And you can start drinking at 18.

Amiira: At 18 also.

Josh: Yeah. So, good mix. Get your license. Those really shouldn't go together. No, not ideal.

Tommy: I shouldn't have had my licence at 16 though. Definitely not.

Greg: No, no, you're wrong, you're wrong. Let me say something. The— I find that best drive because I went all over Australia, that's the best driving I've ever seen. I was like, when I was like, what, are we going 50? And then I look at something like, everyone's going the same speed. Like, that's not how it is here, man. You go 150 if you can, and then, and then, and then just stay with traffic as fast as traffic goes. Nobody signals, everybody just cruise around, and then, and then someone gets in an accident. That's why our roads are all screwed up, because nobody down here knows how to drive in that very sort of insane way where I thought, like, people obey the rules here in Australia. So it's very— that extra 2 years makes people either really respectful of it or cautious. But I found it to be like wildly different. I don't know if you've done some driving around here.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. Well, so I had driven— I've driven here a few times. Uh, when we arrived into LA yesterday It was what we could probably only describe as a fucking nightmare. Fucking nightmare. I was gonna say clusterfuck, but no, because we went to pick up the rental car, booked it through rentalcars.com, went to Alamo.

Tommy: That's not a plug.

Josh: This is the opposite. No, we're bringing it around for, what's the opposite of a plug? An unplug?

Amiira: Yes.

Josh: No, so we rock up. I mean, it's my fuck up too, but no, we've gone to the counter or to the self-check-in. It turns out my driver's licence expired the 4th of October 2018, the day that we arrived in LA. And so we couldn't even— we couldn't actually change the, the main booking driver to someone else. So we lost the, the booking. And so we're UberXing around the joint, which is okay. Look, we don't have to worry about parking, right?

Amiira: Right.

Greg: Which, which is what I would have said, recommended in the first place, because you don't want to drive, park, find a place, get the valet everywhere you have to go. Your valet, which is I mean, it's nice to have somebody valet, but it's, you know, $10, $20, you know, like here, there, tipping, all that kind of stuff. It's a lot. And, and, uh, and we're either stopped in traffic, or once people are finally able to go, they gun it. People gun it. I mean, it's just the Wild West out here.

Tommy: When you're in Australia, what was the difference in the audience? Uh, now, I mean, you've got one in your house, but compared to the American stand-up audience, it's—

Greg: there's a weird, like, um, anytime you travel, there's just a weird sort of immersion period where you don't know why something doesn't translate, and you're like, is it because— and I think sometimes it's just finding a sort of a— there's a rhythm. You pick up a few words here and there, there's just a little bit of ease so that people get you a little bit. Because you, you think, well, I mean, we all speak English, so yeah, they should get it. But I think sometimes you come at it a different way, or your, your persona may be a little bit rough, or there's just a way of like— I would like but the thing I always tell you is like, find something to talk about. From there, don't just talk about you. They're not that interested. Yeah, you're not that interesting. So, you know, I had this long bit about the Tim Tams because they were on my fucking bed when I got there, and I thought they were stupid and I was gonna throw them away. And then I got— I couldn't stop eating them. It was problematic. And so that seemed to people, you know, that— and then there was, um, there you always had a shooting. It was rare. It was in a— it was in a, um, it was in a vegetable place, uh, like you guys have like a supermarket.

Josh: No, but it was just, it was just a store, just a veggie shop or whatever, like a fruit shop.

Greg: Yeah, like I was like, that would never happen in America because we don't have a veggie shop. There's no place.

Josh: Yeah, ours are in school.

Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and so like just sort of finding something like that, and then all of a sudden people are okay with you. And it's a weird thing, but it does make a difference if you acknowledge I'm not from here. I'm also trying to take the typical tact of the things that I know are different. I'm going to try and see if I have an experience that makes it. And then you're usually pretty good. Some words, some ways of going about the what's important to you and what's important to us kind of thing. Sometimes what a target means here and a target means there are different things or something like that.

Amiira: Did you find the Australian crowds less cynical than the American crowds?

Greg: Sometimes, yeah, yeah, they were warmer. I like the comics. I like the Australian comics a lot. That I— it felt like that when I was there. Like, I was out with Hannah and, um, Hannah Gadsby. Yeah, yeah, Hannah was on— we did the tour. The, uh, I did the— I was— I did a month in Melbourne and then did the tour. And, um, Adam Rosenbach and Amos Gill and, um, Ernie the Two. There's a— anyway, double act, but there was a bunch of really great comics. Um, and they were— I like them a lot. I'm so good.

Tommy: Do you, as a comic, are you expecting the crowd is there and they want to laugh?

Josh: Like, do you go in going, yeah, they're here to laugh, so what is that filter?

Tommy: I've got them a little bit.

Greg: Or you— they're never— you're— the idea that they're there to laugh— they're there to find out if they want to laugh. They're not there— nobody comes like, oh, I am in the mood to laugh, and then they laugh.

Tommy: They come out, they go, I don't know, unless they've been smoking a bit of—

Greg: yeah, I'm hoping to laugh, I'm really— but I'm not like— it's not like I'm do the fucking work without you doing the work first. I'm not in a— like, a lot of times people are very suspect, so especially if they don't know you, you know. Once you have fans, then it's a whole different thing. But when they're, you know, I've heard this guy's okay, but I'm gonna see for myself.

Amiira: Yeah, I'll be the judge of that.

Greg: Yeah. And I always think, why would you go see an American if you don't like them? Just to know that I don't care for them. And I was correct.

Josh: Yeah. What's the, um, what's it like working together? Do you find that— and what was the the first dabbling in doing that, say, with through the podcast, through the books?

Amiira: We first started working together and we were still dating before we got married. We took a stab at writing together.

Greg: Well, here's what— I was in a development deal with HBO and I had these two guys from Third Rock writing a script for me and I brought it over to her place one day and she read it and she was like, what? What is— what is this meant to be funny? And I was like, that's okay already. Uh, and she goes, no, it just doesn't make any sense. And so she sort of went through the script with— and I'm like, you're a record executive, like, you know, how— she just really great instincts and she's funny. And so eventually we said, let's, let's write a script together, right?

Amiira: We, we kind of rewrote the script and like, this is, you know, what if we approach it this way? We wrote it just as an exercise and Somebody read it and— or I think we gave it back to the writers and they liked the direction we came at and they rewrote. Anyway, it didn't move forward, but we decided to pitch a show together and we sold the pitch to Fox when I was still working in the music business. And so we started writing together when we were still just dating, and we went— we did sort of like in fits and starts, like we would, you know, work on a project. And also, I, I mean, I don't know what it's, what it's like where you live, but here it's you're in development forever and barely anything moves forward. You know, it's like a very long process and with very little money for the amount of time you're putting into it. And generally, it's not gonna go anywhere.

Josh: So it's like a joint hobby to start with.

Amiira: It's almost like a joint hobby.

Greg: Yeah.

Amiira: Yeah, it's like you can sell a pitch and then for 7 months you get to go through the exercise of writing a script and trying to appease people who've decided now they want a monkey in it or that what if, you know, they want their ideas in your thing too. And you keep changing it to fit their notes, and then they're like, well, thanks for coming, but no thank you.

Greg: But also the time when I, you know, this is in the late '90s, there was only the, there were the 3 big networks and a couple of fledgling networks and HBO. And then there was the beginning of the Comedy Centrals and all that. So there weren't that many places doing scripted comedy. Yeah, and also, but it was also the days where like, if you were a comic and you were white, and you were moderately funny, it was possible to get development deal after development deal after development deal if you had a solid point of view, just a simple point of view. And I had made a record called Uncool, which was just about being too— feeling too old at concerts at 40. And it just got developed and developed and developed, you know.

Josh: And, um, are you seeing cash through those stages?

Greg: Those were— those were unreal. Yeah, those would be like half— yeah, it'd be like a quarter of a million dollars for— and then they put you in another one, and then they'd put you in another one, and you were And it was really like you were very, very lucky. And no one even said, can he act? I don't know if you know. Just give him a quarter of a million dollars.

Amiira: But it doesn't matter. But it would literally just be like this one time, and then it would go away. And then a new project would come in, and it would go away. But so we started writing books after Greg was consulting on Sex and the City. But we had developed scripts together, sold pitches together that never turned into pilots. And then we started writing when Greg uttered the magical phrase at the writing room at Sex and the City. And he came home one day and said, oh my God, Liz thinks he just said that and she should be a book. And I was like, it totally should be a book. Are you kidding me? And I was like, I don't want to write it. I'm like, I'll write it.

Greg: Let's do it. I got a fan base, you know, making, I'm selling records out of my, I'm selling CDs out of my basement. So it's got to be a book.

Amiira: Yeah.

Josh: What does the collaboration actually look like? Like, do you have, does one of you have a crack at a first go and then and the other tears it to shreds. What does that look like?

Amiira: You know, for— it's interesting because when we did He Just Saw That Into You, like, I would write— like, Liz would send something and then I would write something and he would write on top of me, or I would write something and he would write on top of me and send it to Liz. Like, we'd go back and forth like that. And then for the second book that was just us and not Liz, we literally just email each other. We'd sit next to each other and email each other. We'd write our things and be like, what do you think of this? Can you make this funnier or better or write something about this? And we would just email back and forth. And with the different scripts that we've done, there's a lot of— Greg paces and talks, and we talk, and I write it in, or sometimes he'll be in a different place and we'll FaceTime and both be like in a shared document in Google Docs or Final Draft shared or whatever.

Greg: And it's just as fun as it sounds.

Amiira: And it just is.

Josh: It sounds romantic. It sounds like a process that could bring you closer together. Did you find that it did?

Amiira: For a while it did, and then it divided us like crazy. Greg shaking his head.

Greg: Yeah, yeah, I think, um, I, you know, I hadn't— I had no intention of being around— I mean, uh, uh, or writing, really. I came here to do stand-up, and then I didn't have a plan. I'm sort of like that. And, um, and then I ended up getting this consultant work, which was you'd go in and just be, you know, pitch on ideas, but you never had to write a script. You just, you know— so I was at Sex and the City for 5 years, just coming in saying that that guy shouldn't have a purse, or whatever, anything, you know, anything that like it was just meant to be from my point of view. And we talked about a lot of stuff. And then, um, so when this opportunity came up, um, and also, or when I wrote stuff, it had nothing to do with romantic comedy or whatever. I would— I mean, I wrote a thing about a band of trolls that came to the surface of the earth. Like, that was where my head was at. So when we started writing together, we didn't really have a thing. But for me, I need someone to think I'm hilarious, and then I say funny things, and then it works. And so if we don't have that dynamic, I don't know what we're writing I find it very hard. Um, and so after a while, you can only find your partner so funny, right? Like, you're only— as you're—

Amiira: especially if you live together, you're married, you work together, you parent together, like, you're around each other a lot.

Greg: And when you realise some of the jokes are real— oh, he really is incapable of— they said it in his act. Yeah, I thought he was kidding. No, he can't do anything, and he's gonna leave.

Tommy: Yeah, well, you get to know your partner so well. I even know, like, when I'm in a social situation with my wife and she— I can— I know the joke she's setting up, and she's like— I just like sit back. You have heard this one before, this story.

Josh: It's—

Tommy: I could imagine there's a similar vibe of that where you kind of, you know each other so well.

Amiira: Yeah.

Tommy: And so definitely.

Amiira: But also, you know, coming back to what we were talking about relationships earlier, like, you know, we got into this habit of, of, of, um, for a while, like, he was, he was just like walking around spitballing and I was typing but a lot of times I would be typing my thoughts or my things, and he's talking, and I'm not even listening to him. And then I'm not giving him— I'm not giving him the laughter that he deserves from what he's saying because I'm not listening to him. And then his things get lost because he didn't write them down and I wasn't writing them down. And then all of a sudden you find the thing that worked a month ago or on the last project is now in a different place, and you have to make adjustments, but it's already like, well, it worked so great, why can't we keep doing that? And I'm like, well, because I need to do it a different way now because I can't do both of us. You need to do you and I need to do me. And he's like, but no, I like working that way. And I'm like, but I can't. So, you know, it is that thing where like the first thing to be thrown under the bus is—

Greg: But all my best ideas come out of conversation.

Amiira: Yeah.

Greg: And she doesn't want to have a conversation. I'm like, I don't understand how to do that.

Amiira: A lot of times I'm like, I just have to get this out of my brain. I gotta— and he's like, but I want to talk about it. I'm like, no, no, Shh, shh, shh, shh, shh.

Greg: Right, but that's— Yeah, yeah.

Amiira: So it has— So there's been times when it's worked really well, and there's been times when it's been a bummer and created conflict because neither of us are getting what we need out of it, and then it makes the project struggle or not feel harmonious. Yeah.

Josh: Have you worked out a way to sort of hack it, as they say, sort of in the tech world? So coming up with a mechanism so that you can almost fake that sort of vibe?

Greg: Yeah, podcasting.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Greg: No, truly. So we started this. So I was— I felt like with this last book, I'm like, I don't know how to talk. I don't know how to do this without conversation. Like, most of the time, even with buddies, you know, you have an idea, somebody goes, let's do this. You're like, oh wait, here's what we should do. And that part goes, fuck right! And then we can write. And we never have that.

Amiira: You keep improving upon each other, right?

Greg: And we were not generating ideas or having conversation. And, uh, I was like, I don't really know what to write, and I don't feel that excited about marriage, so I'm really not interested in talking about it. So I said we should do a podcast, blah blah blah. She resisted, and I don't know about that, and I was like, let's just do it. And then we started talking, and then the conversation got really real, and some of them were hard and some of them were intense. And there were times, I'm sure, where the people who produce the podcast like, yeah, they're not coming back, they're not going to come back after that one. How does Greg Godley come back after that? And, and I found that that really started to like get that part of it loosened up. So we remember stuff where you can go back and listen to the podcast, and they're all captured there. And, and I think for us it also just you start to hear what the other person is saying because you forget what they're actually like when you're with them, and you get a little bit—

Amiira: well, you forget what they're actually like when you both are being on your best behaviour and listening.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Amiira: And then being thoughtful before you respond, as opposed to going, well, I already know what you're gonna think because we have this history where you do that and I'm still mad about this. But, but also, when you're forced to be in a position where you know people are listening and, and you have to But also you reveal things about yourself that you wouldn't—

Greg: A, there's questions you wouldn't ask if you were just at home because, you know, you think you know the answer. And B, suddenly when people are talking in this way, they reveal things about themselves. You're like, I didn't— I don't even think I've ever been asked you that. Yeah. Wow. And then you start to realize, like, maybe I'm— maybe the things I think are wrong. You know, one of— that's what we call maybe it's you, meaning where you think to yourself, oh, maybe it's me.

Amiira: Yeah, yeah, maybe I'm the one creating this issue.

Greg: Maybe you're— yeah, like, I'm the— oh, maybe I have this all wrong. Because you're so— so you get really certain of yourself when in our marriage for a long time. And I, I know that when I'm certain, there's a maybe a 99% chance that I'm wrong about everything. Truly, if I state something emphatically, I, I am usually wrong. I come out, I go, let me tell you something, this is how it's going to go, and then it's not going to go that way at all.

Josh: Tommy and I always, uh, joke about all for content, which is just this idea that anything that you do in life is a content opportunity. Or like ABC, always be contenting.

Amiira: That's my new favourite thing. It's like always be closing.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Amiira: Right? Always be contenting.

Josh: That's great. I mean, but how do you—

Tommy: Dog breaks its leg, great content.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: Good story.

Josh: Literally the only way that we can get through some of the shit that happens when you travel or anything like that is it's like, at least like if I shit my pants right now, 'cause I need to go to the toilet, there could be a story.

Amiira: It's gonna be a great podcast. We just know that one. That's so funny.

Josh: But so do you have to be wary of, of turning your relationship into just a big content session? Every opportunity is that. The interactions that you're having or the moments where you might be having a fight, is there a little bit where it's like, actually, I'm enjoying this because this is something that could be used as content, or even within the context of recording the podcast, saying, getting off on, let's be fucking really honest, that it might actually—

Amiira: You know, it's so funny because I swear every time we finish a podcast and then we have to go and do the intro for it. I'm like, what do we talk about? I have no— it's literally like it leaves my brain. I wish, I wish I was as, as wired or connected to be always be contenting, because I feel like I would be able to, you know, expand my opportunities in life if I were. Because I, I am, um, I don't— I wish I did. Do you?

Greg: I, I've gone both ways with it, you know. Like, there's times where I feel like, God, I just put too much self out there about myself, and I've now made people worry. Or, you know, I maybe I don't— maybe I wish I was more private. And I also— there's days where I'm like, I want to walk away from the internet and everything altogether, you know. Um, uh, I go through big news boycotts of like, I just can't take it, my just my heart can't take it, you know. There's just too much that makes me— I'll get lured in and I'll start thinking about, oh, why is the president— and then I, you know, go down this path of some stuff I can't do anything about, you know, unless I go out. And the way that I do affect change is by creating content. But I think like with stand-up, you get these things, and by the time they get to the stage, they're sort of half-truths, and you know, they're things that you've sort of made specifically funny. On the other hand, the being— I think if you're listening to something and you listen to two people have a discussion where it's a little edgy or they don't agree, I think you, you have an opportunity to get somebody with that. Telling people shit they already know is no big deal. Everybody knows you're supposed to be a good person, not a shitty one. Everyone knows you're supposed to come from love and blah blah blah. Yeah, but to like, you know, last week Amir and I talked about, you know, I struggle with a bipolar diagnosis and I was like, I should— we just talk about that because I think people listen to the show and go, what the fuck, he was on a whole different thing last week. I thought, you know, it's an important thing to say. And sure enough, people start writing me and telling me, right? Um, uh, and that's a— I think that's a good thing because I think, um, people then feel like, oh, okay.

Amiira: All right, maybe that's what's happening.

Josh: Like, if you don't even understand it yourself, can it be hard to be communicating it?

Greg: Because it's like, you might just tell people that, you say, look, I don't understand what's going on. Look, we're not perfect. This is not a marriage we're telling you to have. This is what we've seen. These are the things I think, as an— as a person who's been around longer, this is what I have to offer. Because hard conversations are hard conversations, and— but you'll wish you'd said these things first. You wish you'd said, look, maybe every year we sit down and talk. Do we, do we want to renegotiate for another year? It's a silly thing to say, but what you're saying is let's look at the way we're going about stuff and are you happy. Let's not build up a bunch of shit, because what happens with her is I'll tell you in the minute as it's happening all the time what the fuck is happening, and she'll go, 4 months ago you— and I'll be like, what the fuck? Wait, wait, how are you— been holding on to this for 4 fucking months?

Amiira: Yeah.

Greg: A, how do you do that? Fantastic. But B, like, that's doing you no good because I'm— so I'm coming home not knowing this. Anyway, it's finding that stuff and saying, look, we can't— you can't do that to yourselves because you— my big thing is if one person in a relationship has resentment, the whole relationship is locked in that resentment. But how's that as the content of the— you know, if someone thinks something about you and it's bad and you come home to that, and you know, even if you created the resentment, even if you were— it did If you don't let go of it, that's the level of the room that you're in.

Tommy: Always. From being with my wife, she's learned that I love to talk things out straight away where she doesn't, and she's come towards me more so than— and I've sort of, you know, given her space. But it is that dance because you are two different people with two different approaches to things, right? Right.

Greg: Which is what you liked about them in the first place. The irony of it all is like, that's what I liked about you— the stability, your ability to not let stuff stuff freak you out in the moment, your ability to keep your head down, get things done. But at the same time, it's not super cozy. Yeah, that version. And I need a lot of stroking and a lot of attention, right? It's just the way I am. It's just the way— and I also think there's men are— I think you're finding genuinely, as men become less and less, uh, useful to the planet, truly, absolutely, truly, absolutely. One day we're all going to be on an island somewhere. What the fuck happened, man? They got rid of us. They did They couldn't kill us, but this is where we are. We're on our own Wonder Woman Island and we're all going to die here and it's going to be very messy, but you can pee wherever you want. Uh, uh, that we, um, where we get— men get especially older, get a little lost a little bit and need a little bit more like attention than, than women think that we do. I think a lot of times guys just need a little— I don't even think it's sex, it's just a little bit of like, look, I can't— I would fuck here. You're the guy I would fuck if I was fucking somebody right now and I think you're awesome. You're still handsome and you're still my favorite. Yeah, you can do that.

Amiira: That being said, can you figure it fucking out and leave me alone?

Greg: No, that part you don't say.

Amiira: Could you?

Greg: You don't. That's the part that makes them feel bad. That's why a sensitive person, you just tell them nice things and then they get it. They don't need as much from you.

Josh: But thoughts aren't facts. And I feel sometimes that I'm like, if I'm— if I've got an idea in my head, is I'm trying to work out, am I just triggered by something? And am I— if I say this I'm just gonna trigger everyone else? And so I feel like I hold off on things where I'm like, actually, you know what? I think that I'm just being unreasonable, but I still have it in the back of my head. So I'm like, I'm trying to like connect the dots and then something else.

Amiira: But that's so good 'cause you're actually, you're monitoring, you're monitoring and taking the temperature of what's real versus what you're feeling and thinking. And that's, I mean, most people are just impulsive and they just say the thing in their head.

Greg: I think most people, no, I think most people do the same thing. They say it anyway. The, the wave is already going. Yeah, no, they're not. They've had this. They've said, is this right? This may not be right. I'm probably wrong. I need to think about this. Let me stop and not talk about it. I'm not going to talk about it.

Amiira: Hey, yeah, by the way, but it's, it's, it's, uh, they can't control the impulse.

Josh: But, but it almost doesn't feel like, uh, because you're not being impulsive to start with, right? But it's all of these things that add up, and then you seem more psycho because you're saying and look, I've been monitoring this situation and I've got 6 examples. And I think that it's really great 'cause it's like, I'm coming to the table, it's like, I wanted you to know that I've done my research and this is why you're giving me the shits. And the thing is that then like, you're fucking crazy, why didn't you tell me on the first one? I'm like, well, I didn't know the first one was an issue, but then when all these other ones. I mean, so how do you approach the thing of like every time you have a thought, just saying it triggering everyone in the room.

Greg: Well, why— first off, you go, why am I having this thought right now? Like, what's happening with me? Because I wasn't having it 10 minutes ago. The other thing is, okay, what is the evidence that I have, right? Um, uh, what is the evidence I have? And then I go, okay, do I know that to be true? Do I know it to be a fact? Well, no, but I mean, okay, well, already nobody would take that to court. Like, the more you really break it down, unless you have real evidence and a real fact, you really probably just are in a snit about that. Your feelings are hurt. There's something— there's something— something's being taken from you. You feel fearful and you're gonna not get what you want, or you're not gonna— it's not— things aren't going to work out for you. Something about this is making you afraid. Um, and rather than going to the person saying, I'm super afraid and this is what I think's happening and I could be wrong, which would make anybody go, oh, you're afraid? Oh, okay, well, let's talk about that. But if you come in and like, look, here's what I know, you're an asshole.

Josh: Yeah.

Greg: And here's what you've done, and you're like, well, I actually do this because blank, blank, and blank. Like, I didn't know that, I apologize.

Josh: I was— I heard the, um, the latest episode where you talk about your bipolar and all that sort of thing, and I could actually relate to a lot of stuff. I think I've got like on the spectrum of fucking 100 different things. But the thing that— the thing that I was thinking about is when, uh, when you're diagnosed with something like bipolar, does it change the dynamic in the sense of How do we know when Amira is actually doing the wrong thing? Like you are in the wrong, Amira, versus Greg's having a moment? 'Cause I feel like potentially if someone's got a diagnosis in the household, there's mental health things, it could be really easy to be like, "Oh, fuck, Greg's having a moment," versus actually Amira's the one that's fucking up right now.

Amiira: Yeah, that's interesting. You know, it's funny 'cause when Greg was diagnosed, he's had, First it was high anxiety and then it was manic depression. And just, you know, when he finally saw the neuropsychiatrist that did the whole evaluation and diagnosis of bipolar, I was like, that makes everything make so much more sense. Because, you know, when you have a dynamic between two people where one person is very mercurial and one person is very, Um, I love that word.

Josh: We have a thing, word of the day. Can you tell us what mercurial means, please?

Greg: Mercury, like Mercury, so it rises and falls. Okay, so it's, um, mercurial is like it just sort of takes off and then it disappears, then it takes off.

Amiira: Yeah, beautiful.

Tommy: Got a real visual there.

Josh: Thank you. Yeah, that's right, painting the picture.

Amiira: And, and I tend to be, um, relatively detached and very reasonable and grounded, right? So he's, he's always been like the the dreamer, and I'm like steady. Yeah, right.

Greg: So whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, steady is like closed off maybe.

Amiira: Like, I think there's also those terms where you're like, well, what, what, that's why I made it like I'm, I'm more like, I, I'm not ruffled, I'm not easily ruffled. I'm not—

Greg: because I think that it makes you sound like a general standing at the fucking front of the lines when it's more of a thing of like, I receive it as you're not interested or you don't— like, I think there's that.

Amiira: Well, I was just trying to answer his question. No, but I'm saying I was building up to answering the question. So back to when I was getting to talk. Back to when I was getting to talk. I was going to address that type of thing where I think that because historically I'm less easily ruffled, he's more mercurial, that I probably am less giving and generous in our dynamic or situation. So I probably trigger more than I realise I trigger, or I'm being not as thoughtful, kind, and considerate, or soft and cuddly, as would benefit both of us in the situation, because I can get a little detached or disengaged.

Greg: So, and if you like that little exchange right there, you should listen to our podcast.

Josh: Maybe it's you.

Greg: Maybe it's you. Yeah.

Amiira: But I do think that my You know, to answer one of your earlier questions also, like, I am just not bothered by that many things. My system of what I go through of like, is this real, is it not real, is like, how am I going to feel about this 10 hours from now? Am I going to care? What about 10 weeks from now? 10 years from now? Will this have any impact?

Josh: But that's almost triggering in itself, right?

Amiira: Right, because I'm not engaging in things because I'm like, that's not a big deal.

Josh: Yeah. And I guess the other part too is it can be I always wonder about the thing of saying, I'm this, like, this is the type of person that I am. And I've always worried that if I say this is the type of person that I am, we're setting ourselves up to be that. So like, has that been— and I guess in regards to that dynamic of a, of an argument, if every argument is met with, I'm the cool, calm, collected, thoughtful one, and the other person is a little bit more sort of unhinged or a little bit more passionate, does it already sort of set the stage to make it hard to have that conversation?

Greg: Go ahead, Megan. Go ahead.

Amiira: No, I was gonna say, it's almost like, I don't know what you call them, like seesaws or teeter-totters, right?

Josh: Yeah, seesaw.

Amiira: Like I see it as like you need to have see and saw. You can't be both like, I'm sad, me too.

Tommy: I'm insane, me too.

Amiira: Like, like, I really feel like there's a level of— for a functional relationship, you kind of need to, to balance each other out. Otherwise it doesn't kind of get to live or work or go or have energy. But he might not feel the same way.

Greg: I do think there is a worry whenever you define yourself at all, you set yourself up for failure. Because, um, as you know, it's like you're like, I'm a person has good taste. You immediately just stopped having good taste because people who have good taste are open to the idea that things are constantly change, right? You know, that you're open to change. I heard this really smart guy, he's, um, uh, Robin Hanson is his name, and he's a bit of an intellectual and he's on the spectrum. And but he said, you know, uh, people, uh, feel the need to talk all the time about things because they want to seem smart. But in fact, we only really know a lot about— most of us— about 2 or 3 things, really understand. And he goes, so for most things, I just remain agnostic, and I find my life's much more enjoyable when I I don't know, I don't have an answer for that. I don't know, I don't know anything about that, or I don't know enough about it to be in the conversation. So if it's a politics thing and it's out of my— like, at a certain level, it's going to go beyond my scope. I have feelings about him. I mean, if you— I think when you're telling people your feelings, they might be like, okay, what are your feelings? But to really understand something— so it's, it's a hard thing to, to say. Look, I, I don't want to just be the mere serial one, and I don't want to just be the dreamy one. And I have moments of steadiness. I've held jobs, I've worked, I've done things, you know. Um, um, so that makes me feel like that is a quality that I possess in our dynamic. It falls that way. But I think I don't have any other person I've lived with for 18 years, so I think you get in these grooves yourself, and you also indulge in them a little bit. You're like, well, I don't know why she didn't expect me to get upset. I am the Mercurial one, you know. I mean, it says on my thing Mercurial. I feel like I gave her a little bit of what she expected from me, and she she gave me exactly that because I haven't talked to her in 4 days.

Josh: We just— we just— well, we fall into the roles, I guess, in some— in some regards.

Greg: Yeah.

Tommy: In Australia, there's, you know, a lot of talk around stigma of mental health. For you, Greg, when you got the diagnosis of bipolar, is that something that you— I know you talked about on your podcast, so it is very public, but is it something that you're apprehensive about because other people people will talk about it, or you're thinking other people are gonna—

Greg: I think it, it will explain some things for some people. But I've— in my head, it made it a lot easier because I was like, okay, so this has a name and it has qualities and it has something I can study and look at and understand. And it also, um, there's bipolar 1 and bipolar 2. I'm bipolar 2, which is a lesser version of it, and it's— it can be more environmental than chemical. Um, but then I have an understanding of it and how the different ways to be aware of it. Also, it For me, it's less about what the public knows and more about the people around me who are like, okay, because I thought, dude, okay, you know, that sort of thing. Or explains like, he didn't call me back for 3 days. I'm like, yeah, I didn't pick up the phone for 3 days, you know. I, you know, and then, and that— I think we get really— I was saying this to me the other day— I think as we go on, we start to, you know, that guy was kind of a dick to me. Yeah, well, dude, he's somewhere on the spectrum because he doesn't know how to make eye contact or say hi, you know. There's little versions of it throughout about all of people's— like, most people's chemistry has some— everybody has some little bit of OCD. And people have little rituals where rituals and superstitions and things come from. And so we have to remember sometimes, like, it isn't personal. That guy doesn't know how to talk to you. He's afraid, he's embarrassed, you know, whatever. But we really, we really like to make ourselves like, well, I, I don't know. Uh, so hopefully for me it'll explain sort of like, um, when things seem odd or off, you Yeah.

Amiira: And I think it helps for the children and I, because there are times when you can go, "Oh, he's not trying to be this difficult. He is trapped in a thing where he is not trying to suck all the air from the room and make everybody unhappy or weirded out. He can't stop it.

Greg: And it'll hopefully pass shortly." Yeah, and certain things pacify you, which is nothing— it's not like you're just super depressed and you're in the dark all the time. Yeah, you sometimes— if you're just like, I got a Netflix for like 4 hours, I'm just— or I'm just on YouTube looking at how to make movies or something, because I— it anaesthetizes you. It gives you— you've got a place to go. Yeah, it makes you feel better. You're not actually out engaging with people. You're not going to be all prickly, and you're not going to be weird. Sometimes you don't want to go out. Like, you feel like you know when it's not a good time to see people. And so— but it's not— again, you're not like, uh, it's not like you're you're in a continual state of suicidal, uh, ideation. You're just, man, I'm not right. And you know what really feels good is one more video about David Fincher's lighting. I just need to know. It's always moves the camera at the same time, but he stays away. The Coen Brothers coming real tight. Like, my brain is open to that. Your brain wants to like, let's digest something different, let's do something, let's write.

Amiira: Yeah, you withdraw and get very obsessive.

Josh: Is having a pacifier— like, does that mean that you can use technology in a positive way? Like, do you think there's too much stigma to technology at the moment where we're saying don't do that sort of shit and we're actually creating more, more issues? Because the thing that's going to make you feel better, we're sort of shunning, or—

Greg: I think they haven't discussed— I don't think— I think it's all such new days. But when I look at things, like, I also write fiction and I do that usually when I'm in some— usually when I wake up. But if I'm in a state where things aren't good but my brain's going If I just start a story, it'll just go. And some of them are kind of all over the place, but I get no place where I'm in here now and I'm creating characters and I'm doing this thing, and none of it has a goal. I'm not trying to make— I'm not trying to sell this. I'm not trying to— I'm just trying to outlet. I'm just trying to find a place where I can be and not bother anybody and maybe channel it into some sort of creativity. You know, I tried to— I shot a trailer on my phone trying to teach myself how to use a, a real camera because I thought, well, I I need something to do with my time when I go through those phases, and, and it's been very productive. So I think there's something about it that can be managed if it is treated that way. I think people look at that and go, he's watching a lot of television. That's usually— that's not what it is. There's something about, you know, that state. Yeah.

Josh: I mean, there's that, uh, quote which is, we judge others on their actions and us on our intentions.

Amiira: And yeah.

Josh: Do you think that if Greg is in a state where he's not feeling good, but his intentions aren't negative, what should partners be putting up with the negative actions? Even if the intentions weren't—

Amiira: Can I tell you that is something that still is something that we are working through because I know he's not a monster and he doesn't have bad intentions, but sometimes the actions or the words or the behaviours or the thing are very very difficult to—

Greg: Make peace with?

Amiira: They're very difficult to make peace with. They're very difficult. Like, you know, he can be really caught up in a really deep, dark down of bipolar, and it can all be channelled at me, and it's conspiracy theory, and there's paranoia, and there's delusion, and there's anger. And the next day he's like, "We're good, right?" And I'm like, "I hate your guts. I can't fucking stand you." Because I am still feeling the— I was a punching bag all day yesterday, and today you woke up and your brain felt good, but I am still trying to get rid of the yuck. So it's hard because I do know that it's not real.

Greg: Also, just so people don't think this is like the Mel Gibson movie, I'm not a tin hat conspiracy theory. No, no, no. Where you go, where you go. I haven't been, you know, I haven't been, uh, I haven't been asked to go to Largo for a while. And, uh, maybe Flanagan doesn't think that, uh, you know, I don't know what happened. I mean, maybe it's been me, you know, you just start trying to figure out what you're trying to figure out. What am I in this mess for?

Josh: Social media does that. Like, I can get to a point where I'm like, uh, that person hasn't liked my post lately. Maybe I'm gonna go through all my photos and see the last time Did they mute me?

Amiira: Did they mute me and I don't even know that they muted me?

Josh: Okay, maybe I'll go into the activities and see, like, are they liking other people's stuff? And like, so, so many dots. And what sort of stuff are they liking? Like, am I— are they liking stuff that would be— maybe they're just off holiday photos. Maybe they don't want any holiday photos. Maybe that's why they're not liking any of their stuff.

Greg: This is one of the funniest things I've ever heard.

Josh: And so, like, is social media— is it Has that happened with you, or am I—

Greg: well, no, in another league? No, no, no, no, no. But I understand that. I understand every thought you just said. That isn't where I go for that kind of stuff because I don't— most of my friends are, you know, because I'm older, so, uh, any of my friends are—

Amiira: there are—

Josh: if you don't get a letter, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Greg: But also, like, just, yeah, for me it's the things that I don't know anything about, you know. Like, I, I, you know, if a social media feed, I can sort of understand. It gives me Sometimes it gives me peace. Like, I'll be obsessing about somebody and then I'll see their post and go, they're fucking not even here. They don't— they moved. The fuck is wrong with me? Or they've been on the road, or they didn't like— are they— oh my God, that guy's sick. Yeah, right. So that, that— but I try not to— I don't try to get too involved there. Now that my kids are on social media, I try to keep my, my presence just sort of focused on work, you know. Um, um, and I— and the only reason I do it is because everyone's like, you gotta have you're supposed to have a— but I prefer less information. I'd be super happy with a landline and nothing else. Really, I really would. I really would.

Tommy: How do you go with kids being— your kids specifically— being able to, you know, consume this stuff that we're talking about?

Amiira: You know, they really— none of them have gotten into podcasting yet. They're not interested. But they also have very busy lives with, you know, school, cheer, dance, homework, work friends. Like, they, they, you know, their social media interests are mostly Instagram and Snapchat, and they communicate with their friends through Snapchat mostly. And that's a hard thing too.

Greg: We'll do her homework with a friend, and the friend will be doing homework, and they'll just be on each other's screens, and that person will just be there with her.

Amiira: And sometimes they don't talk, and sometimes they do homework together, but they both have headsets on, and there's a few people on the screen.

Josh: The funny thing is they're preparing themselves for the workforce of today because I used to work at a tech company and you remote work, that's literally the sort of shit that you would do. You'd have people, if they're working remotely, you could have your webcam set up and at the HQ, at the office, you could just see remote people working and that was the actual connection that they had.

Tommy: I'll be picking my nose too much. I'd definitely get caught doing something.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, Tommy, what does that mean to me? But Tommy does have have the, uh, the, the bit of sticker, like the, um, the gaffer tape over the webcam. Never know when they're watching. Never know when they're—

Amiira: I have the little— there's these things that you can buy where you can slide it to cover it and unslide it, and I keep it closed.

Tommy: I've seen in America quite a few screens in cafes.

Amiira: Oh yeah, you've got to keep that.

Greg: They're all listening.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Amiira: Oh, they are.

Greg: Yeah, I mean, it's just insane where you have a conversation, then you go to your Instagram, and then I was like, I didn't mention that movie. You mentioned that movie.

Tommy: That's—

Greg: yeah, you know, that kind of thing. But then you go, but then you So I'm like, you know what, okay, look, the, the everybody's watching thing sort of is that thing of like, and you know what, if everyone's watching, they'd be bored as fuck if we're who they picked. Yeah, you know, uh, even people having your information, you sort of like, there's a point where you go, it's all sliding downhill. It, once it becomes everybody, so people know, so like that we're just that we're not as titillated anymore. When was the last time a naked celebrity made anywhere near the front page of anything? Nobody cares. Yeah, like nobody cares anymore. I've seen— is that a vagina? That person's a vagina. It's exciting. I knew that before. I've saw vaginas a long time ago. Paris Hilton, anybody?

Tommy: Okay, I could have drawn one. It would have been pretty close to what that one is.

Greg: There is a little bit of like the shock factor starting to wear off. The Kardashians couldn't make a move today. They, they're lucky they got in when they did. You know, it's, um, um, uh, there's a little bit of, you know, um there's also a malaise about it. That's why I think the Russians are everywhere and we're in trouble. But, um, the— it does feel like we don't care as much about that stuff. And I don't think people are— I don't think your generation is as punishing on people. Like, when— if somebody— let's say somebody you worked with had a sex tape, I feel like people would be like, I don't care, they're, they're fun.

Josh: And I only work with Tommy, so we know whose sex tape it would be, right? I mean, mine would look like I remember watching a film with Seth Rogen doing like a sex scene and they had the behind shot. I'm like, that's what I look like, which is so— which is, which is quite confronting.

Greg: Oh yeah, no, no, I had a pretty good—

Josh: I—

Greg: the reason I've never made a sex tape is I didn't want to watch my wife suck a fucking bag of potatoes.

Tommy: Amira, did you— I heard an interview where you were talking about your parents worked for the CIA.

Amiira: My mother worked for the CIA and my father worked for the State Department. But yeah, they both, they both worked for the government.

Tommy: Yeah, how was listening back then?

Amiira: Yes, for sure.

Greg: I really do feel like they're— like, I— they're both so smart and they're both so funny and they're both a little quiet, and I feel like—

Amiira: and they're both so cautious too. But I feel like they know your mom.

Greg: Yeah, maybe your mom's killed somebody. I'm just saying, like, we wouldn't— she's exactly who we wouldn't think would do something like that for the government.

Amiira: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, there was, there was a lot of— I really— I— we really were not allowed to know a lot of what either of them did. And, and there was a lot of caution in the house. There was a lot of using code words and landlines and things had to be done.

Greg: Things had to be done.

Amiira: Yeah.

Greg: Who were listening to the podcast, and he, he wrote me and he said, my dad too. I can't talk about it over the— over, over this, but let's have lunch.

Amiira: Yeah.

Greg: He's like, I can't, I can't talk about it in text.

Amiira: Yeah. No, I know we used to always joke that if, you know, my— because my parents are still quite sure that we're all being surveilled, which we are because there's microphones all over this. You know, my— I have a smart TV. We're being listened to by my television, by my Alexa, and by all of our phones. We're being listened to constantly now.

Josh: And they know something we don't, so we should be trusting them in the sense that— that's what's the fucked up bit.

Amiira: Yeah.

Greg: If you're listening, let's just give Greg another job. Yeah, exactly. That's all we want.

Josh: If it means listeners to our podcast, we'll take it, right? We actually want people to listen. How many smart devices do you have in the house? Because we can count the amount of listeners.

Amiira: Yeah, it's— but it's true. Like, it's funny because I, I, um, I, I happened to spend the day with Jony Ive last year, who is like the chief design officer of Apple.

Josh: Yeah.

Amiira: And he invented all of our things. And he was saying, he was like, oh yeah, there's, there's— because I, because I was saying, tell me if this is true. I was talking about something, I didn't go on anything, and then next time I opened my computer, I was You're retargeted.

Josh: Yeah. Oh yeah, you had.

Amiira: And he was like, oh yeah. He was like, the whole reason Apple didn't, that whole thing where Apple wouldn't unlock the phone for the San Bernardino, he's like, they had all the information. They wanted the precedent of us giving it to them, but they were listened to constantly. They've solved crimes based on people's Alexas that have recorded murders and stuff like that. Like it just is all happening. But when I was growing up and none of that existed, existed. Yeah, we would always joke like, the people in the white van have hung themselves out of boredom from listening to our household already. There's no way. There's no way.

Josh: Talking about Melbourne before, it was in Melbourne that you had a health scare, wasn't it? Was it in Melbourne where you had the—

Greg: Yeah, the last time I was there.

Josh: Yeah. Can you, can you explain, like, can you tell us what— you know, we think about, you know, things like car rental shit not working when you're traveling.

Greg: When your body starts to fucking shut down on I mean, I've been like, I've been fair, like, you know, for most of my life I've been— I haven't spent a lot— I spent a lot of time in hospitals. And, um, uh, and I had gone to my doctor before I went and I said, I've been having these stomachaches and they're, you know, they're pretty intense. Uh, they sort of come and go. I feel like sometimes I have when I lay down. But, um, uh, and so he took— he did everything you would do in an exam and said, uh, I don't know, everything looks okay, but maybe you got some acid reflux. So I was like, okay. So they gave me some Nexium and I went off to do 30 days of a show, which thankfully cut off by cancer. Uh, early reviews were broken, but anyway, so I, um, it just started to get kind of progressively worse. And weirdly enough, I was reading— the bass player from Guns N' Roses has a— Duff had a biography and I was reading it, autobiography. And we, uh, and I was laying in bed and I'm like, man, this is really just starting to really hurt. Uh, and what's kind of nice when you go to Melbourne, if you have a show somewhere, they assign you a person who's sort of your envoy and is the show sort— they sort of run the show and, and, uh, you can call them for anything. Um, and, uh, I called and they sent a doctor over and the guy gave me some Valium and I was like, okay. And then that didn't do anything. And then that night I was like, I'm gonna bug you again, man, but I think I'm— my pancreas might have exploded because in Duff McKagan's book his pancreas explodes. And he goes, when your pancreas explodes, you have an hour because all of the juice inside of there is burning up all your organs. And that's what it felt like. I was like, this is what's happening, because it is— it's insanely painful. I've never been through anything like that. A doctor told me once, he said, I had a woman who gave birth to triplets that also had that and said it was worse than childbirth. So I was like— I mean, I don't know that— that's pretty grand and totally different. But anyway, it was very painful, and they They picked me up and I went to the hospital and they took me right away and put me right in. They were like— I was like, I was in so much pain I didn't know whether to scream or cry or not. I couldn't do anything. They hit me up with some drugs and then I took a little heroin nap. And because they ate the morphine, nothing, morphine, nothing. They gave me a lot. And then when I woke up, they put me through the MRI and they found a cluster of tumours in my intestine, which my whole thing is, uh, I said, well, if you're going to hear cancer, uh, better from an Australian than an American because go up on your Rs.

Josh: It's the ultimate—

Greg: it's just the way you say it sounds better. Cancer.

Josh: Cancer. Yeah, cancer.

Greg: Cancer goes up. Yeah, we say cancer. Er, down. Yeah, more positive. Yeah, positive. And, uh, so I think I was young, super young, and, um, and, uh, chill about—

Josh: were they pretty chill, the Australians, in the way that they, they told— told you?

Greg: The guy was like, look, you have this, uh, cluster of, uh, tumours Uh, that we don't know if they're cancer, but they could be cancer.

Josh: And I was like, slightly South African.

Greg: Yeah, yeah, no, no, it's awful. We can't—

Tommy: it's—

Greg: no, it's awful. And, uh, and I— anyway, so I said, um, uh, well, uh, you know, I've had a nice life. And he goes, well, we're not picking out tombstones, mate. Just, uh, you need to go home. And I was so high at that point, and, you know, I was staying there, and I was like, back to my apartment? He goes, no, to America. Is where you're from? And I was like, oh, oh, I gotta go back to America. And so So, uh, they gave me a box of OxyContin and, uh, put me on the airplane.

Amiira: And some syringes. You had to inject yourself so you didn't have blood clots.

Greg: Yeah, they gave that information. You're like— they're like, here's a box of OxyContin. I'm like, a box? Like a, like a box full of sleeves of it? Yeah, yeah, a lot of it. It's like a street value.

Josh: You thought you like hit the lottery.

Greg: Plus I didn't sell this, but I probably shouldn't. And, um, and, uh, and the— then they said, oh, and you need to shoot yourself with these. Those are needles. And I was like, like in my— I mean, like, yeah, in your belly, uh, because, uh, that you might have a blood clot on the plane and die. And but I'm— you're so amenable, you're like, oh well, I mean, if it's going to be the plane, why not?

Josh: And Amira, what were you thinking? What's, what's your side of the story?

Amiira: He called me— it was actually, he called me on our daughter's— it was her 10th birthday. She's 13 now. It was her 10th birthday and he was in Australia. And we were actually like, for her birthday, we'd gone to Palm Springs for the weekend with another family who, you know, were close for the kids' birthdays. And he called me up and he was like, "So hey, I'm in the hospital and I'm really high and I think I might have cancer, so they're sending me home and I'm supposed to bring a disc and you're supposed to pick me up and take me to Cedars." And I was like, "Okay, got it. I'm on it." And I went straight into— 'cause I've been trained. I was raised by government operatives. I go straight into like—

Tommy: listening to his phone the whole time.

Greg: Exactly. Your feed.

Amiira: No, but it's that thing of like, I, I didn't, I didn't get— I like, I straight was like, all right, I got it. Yeah, send me the information and I'll be there. Like, I just went straight into like function mode.

Greg: And it was funny, I called my manager and I told him and he bawled. And I was like, dude, did you get the— give your script to Amira. She's supposed to cry and you're supposed to get me out of here.

Josh: Is there tension in that? Is it— do you find guilt in like, why am I— why don't I care? Or is it, or is it coming from a caring place?

Amiira: Well, I just— I am the person that holds it together in a crisis and keeps it together and makes it out. Like, I'm the person when shit goes down, you want me driving the vehicle.

Josh: Yeah.

Amiira: Like, I am very— I— it's literally like I completely just go into survival function brain. Like, I—

Josh: why do you think? From your childhood?

Amiira: I think it's from my childhood because I think that I was raised in in a manner so that I don't freak out. Like, I don't panic, I don't freak out, I remain very calm, I remain very composed, and I don't— I don't—

Greg: just if you're listening and you're, uh, it's not his favourite thing about me to have cancer, uh, your cancer— your, your, your— you as the person who does have cancer, you need to have an emotional response so the other person can go, no, I'm gonna be fine. Yeah, because you're— you want to be able to say, if you're okay, why are you okay with it? I have cancer.

Josh: Yeah.

Greg: So I— you want to be able to, uh, help other people through it, you know. You sort of want to be like, look, let's not have a lot of tears, we're going to get through this. If you don't get that, you feel like you're not taking this seriously, right? I mean, you know, I mean, people were like— to be fair, those guys were chill, but they're also like, get straight to a hospital, right? Go get off the airplane, go nowhere but to the thing because the tumours were growing very fast and while they were—

Amiira: They were cutting off the blood supply to his intestines and bowels, so they're like, "Yeah, it needs to be dealt with immediately." And it could spread.

Greg: But they're also— one shot of chemo will probably knock them all out.

Tommy: Yeah.

Greg: So, you know.

Amiira: Yeah, the doctors were very much like, "Oh, you've got the good kind. If you're gonna have it, this is one of the best ones to have." It responds to chemo really, really well. But anyway, so, and I also tend to be somebody that like, I take my cue from information rather than emotions. Like if you tell me it's the good kind and it responds and he's gonna be fine, I'm like, great. He's gonna be fine.

Greg: Here's the fun story. So I—

Amiira: That's not what he wanted.

Greg: So I had to, I had like 12 hours before my flight. I did a show with Will Anderson, and, um, you know, we did our thing called the Super Pod, which is our podcast, and Tofop.

Josh: Did you talk about it on there?

Greg: A little bit. And, uh, good Dave, and they were all like, they were all teary and stuff, and I was still Isaac. I was like, fellas, come on, knock it off, let's— it's all gonna be okay. I went to the airport, I'd packed, uh, color-coded all my clothes, and then I— but I brought a knife with me, uh, which that you're not allowed to take those through Like a Swiss Army knife or something? Yeah, yep, in my backpack. And then they were like— we— the lady said, uh, yeah, you're not supposed to bring a knife through security in an airplane. And, uh, so she goes, I'm gonna have to— and I said, oh, I, uh, I have cancer. And she went, ah, I don't know what to say. Um, I can give you a hug, but I still— I gotta take the knife.

Josh: Yeah. Was that your first use of the cancer as a way to like, yeah, free Starbucks coffee.

Amiira: The cancer card was—

Greg: I think I said I might have cancer, but I, I, but I, at that point I was like, would it help if I might have cancer? Because I thought the knife was gonna make me— they're gonna have to take me out of line and go put me— I was gonna be in trouble.

Josh: Yeah, that's right.

Greg: I just thought, well, I'll tell her right off the bat. Yeah. Um, and by the way, that does— you tell anybody you have cancer, no matter what you're doing, they might go, oh, people feel very badly for you. Um, anyway, I got on the aeroplane and my manager had meant to come with me, but they put me in first class and they put him in coach.. And I had said, because I am a drug addict and alcoholic, I'd said, hey, listen, you know, you— I want you to have the drugs and then you just give them to me when it's time. So I sat next to this fella on the plane. He was very nice. And, um, uh, and, uh, he was in the band, um, Switchfoot. And they had— do you know Switchfoot?

Josh: I don't know any—

Greg: like a big Christian rock and roll band, but they're also a bunch of surfers. And that's all they— that's switchfooting, is surfing. And that's all they do is surf. Turf. And I said to the guy, listen, uh, I might, uh, I'm very high, and I might touch your chest at some point or walk around without my— like, just would you just keep an eye on me? And then every 6 hours, if— would you just remind me to take the pill? And, uh, and he was very sweet. And then he told me he was in a band. I was like, oh, that's so great! How come it's not a band I know? And, um, you know, why isn't it Jack White? But Jack White probably would have been Nice. Yeah. Uh, anyway, he was very lovely and he walked me to the— he said, I'll help you get your bags. He took me to baggage claim and he helped me get my bags and I bent down to get them. I turn around, he fucking disappeared like he had never been there. I mean, there were still lots of people, like he was just— it was just me.

Josh: How high were you at that point?

Greg: Yeah, I mean, I was high the whole time and I was like, but why would I— if I'm gonna have a— if I'm gonna have like a waking fantasy, why the guy from Switchfoot? Like, even in my own dreams I disappoint myself just a little bit, just a little bit. Yeah, he was lovely. He said, I said a prayer for you, you're going to be fine. And then I bent down to pick up my bags and he was gone.

Amiira: He was gone.

Tommy: Wow. And so where are you at now?

Greg: I— it's been 2 years, so far so good. 3 years, right? It was 2015. 4 years. Well, something—

Amiira: it's 2015, right? So you're, you're actually right about— it's October, so about midway through this month is your 3-year cancer-free marker. Yeah, right.

Josh: What else?

Amiira: You had like 6 months of treatment, you had surgery and then 6 rounds of chemo every 3 weeks.

Josh: When I listened to Maybe It's You the first time, it was sort of the first thing I'd consumed after you sort of had the diagnosis and gone through it all. And what I was surprised at is even if when you go through cancer and all that sort of thing, I would have thought that all the trivial shit it goes away in the sense of like you just like become a bit fucking Buddha. But I'm like, oh my God, they're fighting this, they're still fighting that really dumb shit, and Greg potentially could have died.

Greg: I'm with you on that one, man. Somebody else said to me— you're not the only person said that— guy goes, oh, but she had cancer and it fixed everything. No sir, it did not.

Amiira: It did.

Greg: And I thought that would too. I really leaned into the cancer when I got it because I thought, well, this'll me help.

Josh: Was there any moment— it's like when you're nearly in a car crash and then for the next little bit you drive safely. Did you have a period of like everything was good, I'm gonna be all good in life, and then—

Tommy: Heightened gratitude.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: Was there— did you have a sense of heightened gratitude?

Josh: Amira, did you appreciate Greg more after that?

Greg: It's interesting, I'm very compartmentalized, so I have gratitude most of the time. I had gratitude like like, you know, when I said that to that doctor, I felt like I've had a nice life. I have a nice life. I'm like, look, if I had to go now— hey, it was 50, right? I got, I got 50-some-odd years out of this. I have two beautiful kids. Their, their best parent is alive, so they'll be fine. They—

Josh: and you were still alive.

Greg: Yeah, I've done a bunch of really cool— I've done a bunch of really cool stuff that I am proud of. I did not try— I mean, I definitely tried. I definitely went for it, and I achieved things, you know. I did some probably, you know, a lot of people would love to be able to do. So in that respect, I, I don't feel cheated at all. Uh, I wish my— you know, we've gone through some tough times and we hadn't quite solved our problems, and so I felt like, I wish that would have gotten better. Um, but maybe she'll meet somebody nice. I was very high. And, uh, no, I really did. So I had gratitude, and I have it for, um, uh, I've had it for, um, certain areas of my life. That's about the best I can do on that one.

Amiira: I would say, of course, I definitely have gratitude, you know, that he came through it and was healthy. But the thing that's so interesting, and I think you saw it here today, is there still is those habits that you have when you're in a long-term relationship. Like, he still is annoyed at me at the way I dealt with him having cancer or received the information. And I still am like annoyed with him, like, why can't I receive it the way I received it? Like, it's that thing of like—

Josh: Do you have to shut that off though for a bit?

Amiira: But it is that thing, like, it's just— just as a habit of being a long-term couple, like, well, you could have gotten a little bit more upset.

Greg: Well, we're telling it as a storey in real time. That was my, that was my response to it. I mean, obviously, you know, if I was that annoyed with it, we would be together. I mean, we're not being forced to do this.

Amiira: Yeah, you know, but you still have, you still have this, you know, little peccadillos that you have just from being a long-term relationship where you still, you know, something can be fine, you're still going to pick at it a little bit and be like, you know, yeah.

Josh: Yeah. It'd be weird the other way.

Amiira: It'd be nice if you would, you know?

Josh: No, it's true. I think it would almost be weird. Like, did you find that people, some people go weird? Like when you, like talking about cancer, talking about all that sort of shit, like, you know, what advice do you have for people who have someone in their life that has cancer? What's the wrong approach?

Greg: Well, usually look to see what they, you can tell what they want out of it. It. A lot of people get real private about it, is it's a real private thing. And also they don't want people to see them. It's— there's an element of it that, you know, speaks to your vanity and how you're going to be. But what they don't want is for you to be like— you want to show that you are concerned and that they matter a lot, and you want to tell them that they matter a lot on that. But they don't need you to be in more of a state than they are. Some people go, oh, I'm going to be in this play and I'm the person whose partner has cancer. And then you're like, that play doesn't really work. You want them to be able to say, hey, we're going to be okay, we're going to get through this.

Amiira: Well, I think a lot of people also want to— they don't want to be seen as somebody who's sick. Like, they don't want to be— it to define them suddenly. Like, no, I'm still the same cool person with—

Greg: I was just happy to have the work. I knew what I was doing. I had the thing. I'm the guy with the dance room upstairs. I got this room for at least 6 months. I know nobody's expecting anything from me. If I do anything, everyone's going to be thrilled. My manager will be thrilled if I write something.

Josh: And yeah, it'll be like, oh my God, he came downstairs!

Greg: Yeah, I'm available downstairs.

Josh: Yeah, people cheer when you walk.

Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got all kinds of pajamas. Yeah, you really sort of handled that eating thing that you had.

Josh: First class? Like, when else are you gonna fly first class?

Greg: That's right. Oh man, they were— God, I wish those people were lovely.

Tommy: Greg, did it take you anywhere in your head that you hadn't been before?

Greg: Well, yeah, unless I'm not afraid to die. I know that sounds ridiculous. I mean, I, I don't, I don't think of death as of a particularly, um, it, it is not, um, I don't know, it doesn't scare me. It scared me before it happened. I was like, I'd wake up and go, it's going too well for me, I don't want to die, I don't want to die, I don't want to— I mean, my life is going really good and I would really not like to die. And then after this, I was like, man, I, I need to be grateful for what I have, and it is not that big a deal, you know, uh, because all you have is— it's really hard when you— you have the moment, that's it. So you don't really know what happened before, gone, and people will miss you, but you won't know it. I always go like, you know, when you go to sleep, that's exactly what it's like. There's a lot of stuff happens when you're asleep and you don't know it, and you don't worry about it. I never am sleeping going, but do they like me? Are they saying good things about me? I'm just out. How did my service go? Was I— what they put on my— are they thinking about me now? I bet she's not thinking about me me now, you know? Like, I don't— I, I think it, uh, you know, and there may be some other thing that happens on the other side, but whatever it is, um, so that makes me, um, feel also like I have a thing with the mirror sometimes where I feel like, look, I don't— I've had a few health scares, so I don't know how long this goes. And I'd like to solve our problems and get through it, or, or not, and move on, because I don't feel like like, uh, we have the time to be unhappy or make each other feel shitty, you know. In any relationship, you never do. You don't have the— if you know you're the problem, or if you know that it could be better, you know, fix it or do the person a favor, you know. So I think that— I don't think I thought that before. I thought I was owed a lot, I think, before, a little bit.

Josh: Yeah. Amira and Greg, thanks so much for your openness.

Greg: Bring death to the party.

Amiira: I know, it was really cool.

Josh: Well, I think it's cool that, like, that's what I love about about Maybe It's You is that you can sit back and listen, and it's almost like it's therapeutic. And I think that probably the next best thing from having the conversation is listening to the conversation and being able to connect dots and see where, hang on, like that thing that Greg does, I can actually really relate to that. And maybe— and also that feeling of not being alone, right? That everyone is experiencing all the different colours and shades of life.

Greg: The one thing I realised in every situation, which is— and there's a million you'd go back and do— and it was the best thing I've ever heard. It was an interview with Josh Brolin, and it was on another podcast, but they said to him, uh, you know, he was talking about working in a movie with Denzel Washington, and he said, he said, I didn't know Denzel. It was our first time working together, and it was, you know, it's his movie, I'm just a part of it. And I was waiting there for him to show up, and he finally came. And when I went to go to the thing and I blew my line, and I went to say, oh, what was my line? I put my hand on his shoulder and 'Get your fucking hand off my shoulder.' And he goes, 'Now that could have ruined everything.' You know, here's this guy telling me that. He goes, 'Part of me is, you know, just being a young guy, I want to fucking slug him.' Yeah. 'And well, that's going to ruin my career. And then part of me is like, I could, you know, if I, if I take this personally, I'm not gonna be able to finish this movie or I'll get cut out of it.' And so he really thought about it. And then when they got back together, they had to shoot a thing when they were sort of far apart and weren't supposed to talk, we're just looking at each other. And about right before they started to shoot, he looked up and I think I'm falling in love with you. And it changed the whole— his whole way of approaching the solution to the problem, which is, I'm not less than you, but I'm not going to match you. I'm going to be funny about it. I'm going to take it to another place. And also, you remember, you're meant to love people. So he made Denzel laugh, and they've been great friends ever since. And I think sometimes you just have to take a minute and go, what are the possibilities for what I'm about to say? And I don't do that enough, maybe, but I do think that is the real— our reactions, that's all we have.

Josh: It's choose your own adventure, essentially.

Greg: It really is, 100% of the time, in anything. You can change your life if you have the ability to be able to go, I'm gonna do it different. I got the thing I do all the time seems to never get the right response, you know. And sometimes somebody else is not going to change their way, and then you go, oh, they're going to always give me that response. So my— I may just not need to show up to be there.

Josh: Yeah, it's like the fact that we have that choice, right? The only thing that we can control is our response to all those things.

Greg: That's it.

Amiira: Oh, you don't have to show up to every fight you're invited to.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Sometimes a response is like not responding at all, right?

Greg: Yeah, yeah, that's right. If you choose not to show up to a fight, yeah, you're right, that is— that is actually, uh, um, yeah, that's good.

Josh: Maybe it's you. Is the podcast— it's weekly, every week, every Tuesday. Every Tuesday. That's perfect. This is what's good about having, you've got like a professional operation is just, I love podcasts that are consistent. And I love that on my phone, like I haven't even realised what day you do it, but I just pull out my phone and it seems every single time I've got the episode done. It's perfect. It's The Daily Talk Show, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. If you want to send us an email. Thank you, Amira and Greg.

Amiira: Thanks for coming to our home and talking to us. It's been a delight.

Josh: The Daily Talk Show. Have a good one.