Ryan Jon & what's best for your child

Ryan: Wait a minute! Crossface, the daily talk show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett.

Josh: It's a daily talk show, episode 175. TJ, yo, it's, uh, mate Ryan John here.

Tommy: Yeah, a bit of a flashback from episode 65. That's when we had you on last.

Ryan: Yeah, right. Okay, am I the first Returning champion, carryover champion.

Tommy: Oh no, Derek actually beat— no, Derek beat him too. Um, second, second returning champion. And hey, they're giving out awards, they should, for everything these days.

Ryan: So I'll take it.

Tommy: You, you will give you one for when you come back for the 10th time as well, because there's no last place here, mate.

Ryan: I appreciate that, I really do.

Tommy: What do you actually think about that? You know how kids these days are getting just awards. It's a participation award. Um, what do you think about that, Ryan?

Ryan: I don't like it. And actually, on the show this morning, we had this like fight during the song because we had like Taylor Swift tickets to give away, and we realised we only had enough time for one competitor. And I was like, all right, if you win the quiz, you get the Taylor Swift tickets. And we're like, oh, what if they don't win? Should we just give them to them anyway? And I was like, no, 100% not, because it makes the whole quiz redundant and it's just a waste of time if they don't win. They tell them bad luck, you don't win, and we keep the tickets.

Josh: Yeah, it, um, and did they win?

Ryan: They did, yeah. So you lost, you lost that. I lost.

Josh: But I just—

Ryan: could you imagine investing a minute of your life listening to a quiz, hearing someone lose, and then they just get gifted the prize? Yeah, why did I just listen for a minute?

Tommy: Yeah, it's classic radio.

Ryan: And that's my grunt from this morning's show. Hello to my bosses.

Tommy: Josh, uh, we should follow Trevor's instructions and actually tell people who Ryan is. If you haven't, if you've just come to this show after episode 65, Josh, you can, you can handle this intro all the way from Barcelona, Spain.

Josh: I was going to say bad luck for the people who are just listening now because it's, it's about in-jokes and just fucking understanding the podcast and getting on board now. But no, Ryan, he—

Ryan: This will be a good test if Josh knows much about me.

Josh: Mate, I fucking know everything. Life of Ryan is his podcast, but you probably have heard him on Perth's— is it 92.9?

Ryan: It is, yeah. The Breakfast Show.

Josh: 92.9 in Perth is on The Breakfast Show. I feel like you've had— have you had a slightly revolving door in, uh, like hosts, or has it been quite consistent?

Ryan: I haven't, but I think I am the new entrant in the revolving door. So Will and Woody finished at the end of last year, so I and Xavier replaced those two guys. With Heidi, who's been there for a while. But it's one of those ones, I think over the last 10 years they've gone through a couple of brekkie shows, but hopefully this is the one that stays for a while. And I think it's interesting, I feel like on your show there's a lot of when I used to work in commercial radio chat and a lot of guests, like I listened to the Jules Zep and it was like, oh, back in the commercial radio days. And I've been listening like, I'm still in the commercial radio days.

Tommy: Yeah, you're in that bubble.

Ryan: Yeah, I'm in the bubble.

Josh: But hey, I like the bubble. So you've, but people might recognise you from being the guy on the project, opening up about the fact, the journey of trying to find your biological mum. When we had you on last time, you were doing the rounds on, you were on what, Studio Daily, was it? What's the name of the show?

Ryan: The Daily Edition. I'd come straight from Channel 7 last time. And ironically, I've just come straight from Channel 7 today.

Tommy: Yeah.

Ryan: So, don't feel like every time I come to Melbourne, you're second choice.

Tommy: No, it was our idea to get him on the podcast today, so.

Josh: It's fine, it's fine. And so the, um, the reason you're here is because you've made a video with TJ a few months ago, um, with a mate who's just done 300Ks. Do you want to give everyone a rundown of what actually happened?

Ryan: Yeah, so my best mate Dave, he— his mother passed away to MND, motor neuron disease, which if you remember the ice bucket challenge and ALS, it's the same disease that— because it's a horrific disease and it's really expensive. If you have it, hence why the ice bucket challenge. And Dave said, I wanted to raise some money, so he said, I'm going to run 300 kilometres in 5 days. We all said, you're an idiot, but good on you. So we—

Tommy: an idiot.

Ryan: Uh, Tommy and I were like, we're not going to run, but we can help make a video and get the message out there. Yeah, so we did that, and they aimed for $20,000. And I can come in here today and say, aim for 20 grand, and we're on 23 or 24,000. And I just— yeah, Dave and I both just did Channel 7 before I came here, so hopefully The kind of audience that watches an afternoon newsy magazine show are the types that might wanna kick in 10 or 20 bucks.

Josh: 100%. Maybe podcast listeners.

Ryan: Yeah, podcast listeners.

Josh: Daily Talk Show listeners.

Tommy: If it's 2020, the run's over.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: He's successfully completed it and you can't donate anymore, but I'm sure there's a fund out there.

Ryan: Actually, here's a challenge. I'll put a link up somewhere that we can find it. We'll figure that out later. But if in the comments, 'cause it's, you can know, good luck Dave, well done mate. Say I heard about this on the Daily Talk Show. Right. Just so we can attribute the money that we raised on this podcast episode to the thing.

Josh: I would really want to make sure that we attribute that, we're that type of team. We're all gonna make sure we attribute every dollar.

Ryan: Even if one person puts in $2 just for the joke of the podcast, that would make my day.

Tommy: We wanna know when we're moving the needle and it could come through this, but no, hang on, you spoke to someone from MND, the charity.

Josh: Yep.

Tommy: And what did they say about the video that you made that I helped you with?

Ryan: That, um, no, no, they said a lot of fundraisers they're really proud of make a couple hundred, couple thousand dollars for a trivia night or some things that guys want to put on. But they said, uh, we've never had more views and engagement on our page in the week after we posted that video. And the guy actually came down yesterday and said, this fundraiser's, you know, exceeded everyone's expectations. We've never had more clicks to our website to find out what deal is and stuff like that. And I think, you know, as much as it was a bit of a joke that I can't run that far— well, it's not a joke, I can't— but I thought, you know, if we can tell a really good storey and do it justice, you know, we can get a good result. So we are, as much as we're proud of Dave doing the run, I think Tommy, with your help, we can be pretty proud of us sort of getting the message out there. So, um, no, it's a good result all around.

Tommy: It's, um, what I like about you, Ryan, is you, you are one of the people who sees When you say Uriane like that, it sounds like you're saying urine.

Josh: Has anyone else picked up on that? Sorry to sort of butt in.

Tommy: Uriane, yeah. You, you Ryan, Uriane. Anyway, now I'm just thinking about a glass of urine. Anyway, no, but you, we talked about this. You paid me money to make the video for you. And I don't want to seem like I'm a tight ass when it comes to charity. I did give him a discount.

Ryan: Big discount, I do appreciate that.

Tommy: Heavy discount. But in saying that, it's like you made such great sense when you go, I invested X amount of dollars, which essentially is going to raise shitload of dollars through your 200,000+ people on Facebook.

Ryan: Yeah.

Tommy: And it did.

Ryan: Well, I think that they're up to 3,000 or 4,000 before we posted the video. And 2 days after we posted, they're up to 15,000, 16,000.

Tommy: Amazing.

Ryan: And yeah, I think, I can't remember what I said, but it was more like, we can get more value, me putting a bit of money and time into a video than the actual money I have on me to give to the cause. So I thought if I can give $200 to the cause, I'd rather give it to you to make a bit of a video or however much I paid. I'm pretty sure it was more than that.

Tommy: It was actually $15 grand, so they made $1 grand.

Ryan: But no, it was a very good return on investment. So I don't know, it is actually a good, even though this is charity and not business, investing in making quality stuff does have a return.

Tommy: Well, you see, I think the good thing about— I mean, the, the interesting thing from a— if you've got a content brain and you're into seeing what works, because you'll see stuff working a lot more when it has got a charity element to it. And so like when I did those Obike t-shirts, we sold like nearly 90 or something, which was crazy. If I tried to sell a t-shirt just with some weird looking thing on the front of it, it wouldn't sell any. Might sell one, it'll be my mum or Josh, because Josh always buys anything that I do.

Ryan: Guy, what a guy.

Tommy: He's a great guy.

Josh: I know, I try.

Tommy: But you do see people do really act on this, on, on the charity side of things.

Ryan: It's—

Josh: but I think that that's the risk as well, right? Is the, um, like, or the, the question, question is, is if, if a company is trying to add a charity element purely for the sake of leveraging the charity or getting more of an audience? Is that okay or not? I mean, the thing is that a lot of charities do spend a bit of money. Like, I remember, um, you know, charities have, you know, can spend $100,000, $200,000 on a film, a product, like a complete product. But the thing is that they know that they're going to get $2 million back. So it's that whole thing of like, it makes sense to have a bit of a business mind with this sort of thing, and because you're actually going to make more money than if you didn't do that.

Ryan: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And but do you think it'd be hard decision to make if you're, you know, the marketing director of a charity, you call you guys and say, I want to make a sweet video, um, it must be risky to go, yep, we're going to spend $200,000 and hope we get it back, and then a lot more like it that Could you imagine spending 200 grand on a film, not making it back and then going, "Oh, you've just cost the Council of Victoria this much money." That'd be terrifying. Yeah.

Josh: You'd feel a bit guilty. Well, there's even, there's a—

Ryan: Having said that, do it. It's a good investment.

Josh: No, I saw someone recently talk about it on like an online forum where they were saying how, they were talking about a specific, not even like a charity. There's like a real mix now of those sort of social enterprises or things that are a bit of a mix. And they were saying how this specific campaign, they bring in— it was something like $4.5 million, and they end up giving about $1.2 million raised. So they end up spending so much money on the actual thing that they're doing. But if you think about it, if it's like what you're talking about, Ryan, if it's about invest— if it's about actually building awareness, then The goal isn't always just to make coin. Sometimes the goal can be like, okay, if more people within government know about this disease or whatever it is, and then it can create sort of more opportunities to help people financially. It's got that whole follow-on effect.

Tommy: The internet's a weird place. I remember I did the ice bucket challenge in Shepparton on radio, but it was very much like you're thinking about what you should be doing. Whereas, you know, you've got a connection to Dave, who's, you know, you knew his mum who passed away from this, and so there is a real connection. I didn't really have a connection, as much as I could try and feel empathetic for people. I know more about it now from meeting Dave, making a video, and hearing about his mum, and it was heartbreaking hearing about this thing, right? And it's, and it's funny, I remember Ice Bucket Challenge— well, it's not funny, but it— there was people getting funny about it you know, go, you know, are you just kind of exploiting it all? There was some weird thing.

Ryan: Well, the thing was that if you poured them the water over your head, you didn't have to pay. And I was a bit like, oh, like, it obviously was a great challenge, but like, also still pay.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ryan: Hey, I've got a, I've got a question for you guys I just thought I'd throw into the mix. Do you often hear from people saying, because Dave's had this idea for a very long time and it took him a while to get around to actually doing the to run.

Tommy: Yeah, mate, I'm scared of running 300Ks as well. I wouldn't.

Ryan: But he's had the idea for a while. Do you guys in day-to-day come across a lot of people that have the idea and then don't do it? And then I guess the follow-up question is, someone else does it and they get real shitty and feel like they're a victim, and it's a bit like, no, like, it's not about having the ideas, about doing the idea. Do you guys hear a bit of this, man?

Josh: It's, it's constant. I even— but I even have to catch myself, which is like, if I have an idea and I don't act on it, I need to accept in that moment of non-action that I'm not going to, um, I can't get pissed off when someone else does it.

Ryan: Yeah, yeah, right.

Tommy: It's, uh, similar to last time we were— you were in Melbourne last time you did the show. Yeah, we were talking about the 7-Eleven stuff.

Ryan: Yep.

Tommy: And then you tagged me in, and the thing that we did on this show, we with Peter Shepherd where we gave him a blind taste test, which coffee's which, one from 7-Eleven or one from a fancy barista. And it was about which one he could, you know, my point was that I don't think you can tell the difference and he picked the 7-Eleven one coffee, spoiler alert. But you tagged me, Ryan, in a post from news.com.au of them doing like this high production taste test with baristas. Exactly the same thing. Mine came before theirs, but it's one of those things where it's like, oh, fuck, I could have done the high quality version, you know?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But I even said to you, mine was better.

Josh: So many of those ideas though are like going to get done because the thing is, I think a really good idea, it's got that zeitgeist element where like it's on people's mind and it's only a matter of time. Like I'll give you a, I'll give, I'll throw out an idea and we can quickly workshop it. The idea that I've got at the moment, I've got the domain name personalbrand.com. Oh, sorry, not personalbrand.com. No, personalrebrand.com. I don't even know the fucking name of my own concept.

Ryan: So what is it?

Josh: Personalrebrand.com. Can you guess what it is, Ryan?

Ryan: Well, I've listened to the show, so I've heard you joke about it, but I think there's a couple of different ways to look at it. Sometimes with you, you're like, I'm a hat guy now. Or I'm a health guy now. And I guess the bigger one, because for me I think I'm a bit of a rebrand because I used to be an accountant and consulting banking and stuff like that. And now I feel like as a, you know, a radio host and a podcaster, and the fact I'm wearing jeans on a Monday, I've done a rebrand from accountant and suit into casual clothes wearing media type person. Is that like the same thing, or?

Josh: Yeah, I reckon. And I think that there's so many people, I reckon 50% of people at least go through a massive rebrand in their life.

Ryan: How many have you done?

Josh: Oh, I've done— I would have done at least 4. I remember, you know, in like 6 or 7 years ago having a Pinterest— 6 years ago having a Pinterest board for one of them where I specifically was putting in different looks. But it goes like, as you were mentioning, it goes beyond the look because it, it turns into what your occupation's going to be. Like, there's going to be people who go from— well, look at people like Glenn Robbins. He was a school teacher. Yeah, he went from being a school teacher to being now Russell Coyote.

Tommy: Yeah, Kath and Kim for the International Olympiad.

Ryan: Sean McAleph was an insurance lawyer for 10 years before he did comedy full-time.

Tommy: Insurance lawyer.

Ryan: Yeah, how boring does that sound? So, um, have you— you said you've got the domain name. Have you got the Instagram for personal rebrand and that sort of thing?

Josh: No, I have— I haven't got the Instagram.

Ryan: Has someone claimed it?

Josh: Like, big I don't know. The thing is that the Daily Talk Show—

Tommy: I know that you don't like to pursue an idea unless you've had, unless you've got everything covered. Check now, 'cause if someone's listening, they'll definitely get it. Yeah.

Josh: Well, I think the thing is that the, maybe I've had a little bit of a pushback on some of that stuff. Like I think that our main brands, like our personal YouTube stuff, like the Daily Talk Show, it's amazing to have all of them. But I don't know if I want another. Looking at my Instagram, I've got that many accounts when I click like, like change accounts. Oh yeah, I can't even add another account anymore. So it's sort of, I don't know, um, but I'm typing it in. Personal Rebrand is actually take—

Ryan: you fuckers, tell us what you're saying.

Josh: This, this is your— this is required. Some level of—

Ryan: You have been intercepted.

Josh: Planning.

Ryan: All right, can you just read us through what just happened, Josh?

Tommy: Let's let this play out.

Josh: Yeah, so, well, so I've just typed in personal rebrand. I'm like, some fucker with some profile, but hang on a second, that hair. Wait, and it says an account owned by ryan.john purely so Josh Johnson can't own it.

Ryan: So me and Tommy did— Tommy was around at my house yesterday and we were— I was talking about rebrands and how it could be a podcast and he was like, oh, Josh has that idea. So we did the same thing. We said, I wonder if anyone's got the Instagram handle and they didn't. So I was like, I'll claim it. And then out of nowhere you brought up Personal Rebrand. We're like, how can we bring it up casually so you won't know it's a stitch-up? And then you started talking about it. We're kicking each other under the desk. We're like, this couldn't have worked out better. That was a great—

Josh: I have limited things to say. To talk about. That's so funny. Well, no, because I think that there definitely is a, like what I'm thinking about, if you look at most shows, they're sort of reworks of old shows. And one of my favourite shows growing up was MTV's Made. Did you ever watch that, Ryan?

Ryan: Made as in like made it or?

Josh: Yeah, so it was called Made and it was what they did. It was exactly that, like, as if you'd made it. And they would take kids on their summer breaks and they would basically, there'd be like the fat kid who's like, oh, I want to get into, or like a girl which is like, I want to get into the cheerleading team, or a guy like, I want to lose a bunch of weight. And then they take the summer and they like give them PTs, or if it was a cheerleader, they would be like, okay, you can go to a college game and you're gonna be mentored by all these people. And by the end of it, when they get back to school, they're fucking like, if it's, you know, a fat kid, he's completely jacked and stuff like that. So that is an example of the personal rebrand. And if you think about what Catfish was, Catfish essentially in my mind was like the new age Cheaters. Do you remember the show Cheaters? Yeah.

Tommy: And they've had some good ones. They had that one where it was like getting predators online, and then they'd like set up some mock situation at a hotel room, and then they'd come in like, we got you, you dirty sicko.

Ryan: Really?

Tommy: You were talking to a 10-year-old girl, but it was them. Yeah, it was crazy how they got permission to actually use the dudes.

Ryan: By the way, we've just outed you. Can you just sign here to agree to— Yeah, yeah, no worries. It's good to be on TV.

Tommy: Back when TV had real clout.

Josh: So, so what are we going to do now, Ryan? I think like, hang on, Trump's Instagram.

Tommy: Yeah, definitely. Let's talk about, um, ownership of domains and things of such. I was telling Ryan after we spoke about, um, getting— after he just got your domain, he's like, I got it. Um, we could have—

Josh: Instagram, he got the Instagram.

Tommy: We actually could have a Dropbox situation on our hands. Josh, do you know the, the backstory of the Dropbox domain? I'll tell you if you don't. So Dropbox used to be getdropbox.com. When the guys started it, they couldn't get dropbox.com because someone had dropbox.com, and they started investigating into who had it, and they moved ahead with the funding and the name. They got, you know, they landed the funding, and they were thinking, you know, people just like, change the name if you can't get it. They're And they found the guy who had it. He was just outside of San Francisco and they called him and he was like, no, look, I'm not interested in selling it or giving it away. And so they ended up just going, fuck it, let's go rock up on his doorstep. 'Cause you can access and find people where people live based on domain information. Sometimes if you're not hiding it like me, which is why I get all those fucking SEO calls. Anyway, so they rocked up at his house with a bottle of wine And then they said, look, we wanna buy this from you. And he's like, okay, let me think about it. And came back and said no.

Josh: A wine bottle is really good because when he says no, you can smash it on the side of the door and say, listen here, fuckhead.

Tommy: And the red wine makes it really impactful visually. Anyway, so what they did was went back again the next week and they said, the guy said, nah, not doing it, don't want it, whatever. And then they launched getdropbox.com, the beta version, and they started getting shitloads of traffic. And what they noticed was that most of the traffic was going to dropbox.com, and this sneaky bastard set up an AdWords account that was basically selling ad space on dropbox.com to the competitor of Dropbox. And so at that point they're like, this is fucked. And so they sued him. And they found this breach of like some, some, there's something in there where you're not allowed to, if you don't intend on making money with the name for the name's sake and you're just doing something sneaky like profiting from someone else's business.

Ryan: Or being a smartass for a lame podcast joke.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. There's a, there's some way you can sue them. Anyway, the guy's like, look, I don't, I don't want to go through with the case, can you, um, can 'What can we do?' And long storey short, $300 grand, he sold the name to Dropbox.com. And the owner of Dropbox now said that they offered him a share option. And if he took that share option now, it'd be worth a couple hundred million dollars. So—

Josh: Are you sure it was a couple hundred million? As you said that number just then, you sort of like tripped up. Couple hundred million, you said.

Ryan: Or Dropbox, sorry, billions.

Tommy: Yeah, I almost said billions.

Josh: Which, how much is Dropbox worth?

Ryan: It'd be more than—

Josh: I mean, we don't know the answer.

Tommy: Shitload of money. Yeah, hang on, let me ask Siri.

Josh: I feel like Dropbox—

Tommy: is Dropbox worth— let's see if they know.

Josh: This is gonna be great.

Tommy: Oh yeah, here we go. 10th of August, um, they've filed for bankruptcy.

Josh: No, no, this is what annoys me about Siri. It doesn't actually— she's the mate who when you ask a question, she just says, oh, just Google it. Um, expected to bring a number of unicorn IPOs, blah blah blah.

Tommy: All right, Siri's really fucking me over. Revenue has nearly doubled from 2014.

Josh: Yeah, so this is the problem with all these companies.

Ryan: I don't know where I've got a Dropbox market cap right now is $10.49 billion.

Tommy: Yeah, right, they're worth a bit of money.

Josh: Yeah, sure, good on them. Yeah, they're worth a little bit. But I think, um, I wonder where all these platforms will go. I even think about, um, the different software that I install on my computer. And over the weekend I was at a, um, a big expo where it was like media technology, and you're looking at all the different, um, you know, software and hardware, and I just get overwhelmed because I'm like, we know what happened to MySpace. We know there are losers in any winning game.

Tommy: Yeah. And so I think about like, well, not if you're in primary school and you're in a running race because everyone wins.

Ryan: Or on Ryan Johns' radio show, Taylor Swift tickets for everyone. I I think Dropbox is okay 'cause they have paying customers that pay every month forever on ongoing kind of deals. And it's not like a platform and community, it's a real— that's how I send stuff, Dropbox. I use it all the time. Is that in that category or is everyone's gonna win or lose somewhere?

Josh: Yeah, I think when they do have that paying sort of market, it does change things a bit. But at the same time, I wonder, when I choose like, say, you know, a file management tool or whatever it is, I want to make sure that like I go way too deep in the sense of working out are they actually— how much are they innovating? Like, I— because TJ, you'll remember this when I was using a service called Whipster, which was like a tool to be able to, um, uh, give to client— like give a video to clients and they'd be able to annotate the, uh, The video on specific areas, right? They're a company out of New Zealand. Basically, they changed their business model from being something that was, uh, $50 a month unlimited videos to up to 5 videos, and then you had to pay an additional like $5 per video. So when you're talking about, say, I for one client did 100 small videos, it was just going to become so expensive, and they wouldn't budge on it. So I ended up having to move my whole platform that I was using over to Frame.io. But I saw in real time on Facebook all of these people saying how they were going to leave, and they were purely doing it because they wanted to, you know, bump up their, um, their cash flow for their, for their investors.

Tommy: Do you think— I've heard a few people say that they don't think they'll be worth any in the future. But domain names, I know you're the king of domain names in my world, Josh, but thinking about my son's domain name, um, you know, should you buy them? Do you think they'll be as what they're worth now in the future?

Josh: Yeah, it's— I reckon it's a hard one to tell. I think it's still a .com, I think is still the top type of domain you can get. I think what's changed is all the different domain name extensions. So we have— I haven't redirected it yet, but I mentioned it the other day— we have the dailytalk.show, which I, I think it can be a little bit confusing though too, because if we just add on all these other extensions, do we value more the .media extension or do we value the .com?

Tommy: Yeah, I think the .com has the prestige. Do you own ryanjohn.com?

Ryan: I own ryanjohn.com, although I don't think I ever I couldn't tell you the last time I've updated it and wouldn't post there that often, but I just had this—

Tommy: He's definitely lost it, Josh. He's definitely lost it.

Ryan: Buy it quickly, claim it. But I have this sort of— I keep renewing it every year because I have this deep fear of, oh, but it's my name, I can't let anyone— I'm having it so no one else can have it, really, because no one— the Facebook stuff people watch on Facebook, Instagram stuff they watch on Instagram. Very rarely would I ever go to a comedian's website just to see what they're talking about, sort of thing. So yeah, I don't really know why I've got it other than just so no one else can get it.

Tommy: Yeah, true.

Ryan: If that makes sense. But again, you don't want the trends to change and then I regret not— I mean, it's not expensive, are they? It's really cheap.

Tommy: Yeah, it's $20.

Josh: It's like, yeah, you're talking— the thing is when you buy it at the start, it's like $6. And the annoying thing is they up it the second, like especially GoDaddy ups the domain to be like $20. So I get reminded every few days of dumb shit that I've registered a year ago. 'Cause I'll get, I'll just get reminders.

Ryan: That's how they get you in, they get it cheap and then they suck you in.

Josh: And then they fuck you. Ryan, I want to ask, it's early in the morning here. When I say early, it's actually not early at all now, it's like quarter to 8. When I got up, it was 6:30 and I was waking up multiple times during the night. It's been happening a lot since going to the airport a bunch and like having to make sure I don't miss a flight. And then also with this podcast. I wanna get a sense, how much does a breakfast show just destroy your sleep?

Ryan: Yeah, it does destroy your sleep. And I think people go through phases of you're so tired you wanna nap, but then if you nap too long, then you can't get to sleep that night. And it's like a really bad cycle and you really gotta be, it sounds so lame, but just like disciplined, like just go, 'cause I've had stages where I've been going out 2 or 3 times a week Sometimes I did a bit of stand-up and I wouldn't get home till after midnight, and then you got to get up at 4:35, and it just, it's awful. It's horrific. I weigh significantly more than I did when I started, and I think because that's you trying to make up for going, I'm just so tired, I want a donut. Yeah, I do. Extra coffee and stuff like that. So it's, it's kind of hard, but you just— I don't know, when I'm disciplined of going to sleep, and it's a lot easier, I guess.

Josh: But you're looking, you're looking great because you've lost 5 kg. Congrats. Was that like super, super hard doing breakfast and trying to be on a diet at the same time?

Ryan: Yeah, because I don't know about you, Tommy, but because you're awake so early, you kind of end up just having another meal, 'cause you'll have breakfast at 5:00 AM and then by 9:00 AM you're sort of hungry. So, you kind of have like a second breakfast or an early lunch and then at midday you'll have a lunch and then dinner and suddenly, you know, it's one extra meal, but if it's one extra meal every day for a year, then that's an extra 300 meals you've had.

Tommy: I think the thing about breakfast radio is, it's very regimented that you're structured around time. So you're on from, you know, 6 till 9. And what I did, I reckon I lost weight because I stopped weight training. I definitely just got a bit, you know, a bit smudgy, a bit like, you know, a bit softer. But what I did was I got to work and I had this like, this routine of like a smoothie and I had it all good to go in this thing. It was almost like a, NutriBullet. So I had it all ready to go the day before and then straight after 9:00 AM, I'll do like a whatever bowl, sweet potato. I got this routine happening and then I'd go home and then that's where I'd start drinking heavily 'cause I didn't like being there.

Josh: No, I definitely left and I've managed to also get the food diary happening. If you've noticed, all the guys are talking about food.

Ryan: Far out.

Tommy: But no, I think, yeah, if you treat it like that. But I was also thinking at the same time of you speaking about your food of there should be a, this, as soon as you hit a certain amount of money that you're earning per year, you actually can't talk about the issues of the job being hard. You're probably not there yet, but the Melbourne—

Ryan: I shouldn't complain. The one thing that is tricky though is most—

Tommy: Don't sue him.

Josh: He's got Brad March on his side. I saw that Brad started following me on Instagram and I was like, Does that mean he manages me now?

Ryan: Yeah, it does.

Josh: Is that how it works?

Ryan: Yeah, he manages the Chaser, Jackie O, and Josh. That's his big 3. But I think that the hardest thing for Brekkie Radio people with the exercises, the classes are in the morning, like before work for the average Joe, and you can't go to those because you're at work in the morning. And then they have the after-work crowd, and that's like 6 PM and 7 PM, and by then you want to really wind down and And so at first I was doing like a 6 o'clock class, I'd finish at 7 and your body's, you're all juiced up, you're full of, well not juice juice, but like all the adrenaline stuff and then you can't sleep. So you're awake longer and it kind of messes with you that way. But I know you kind of just got to figure it out. And like Tommy was saying, even though you were sort of joking, like when it's the job that you choose to do and you get paid for, you can't really complain about the hours. 'Cause you can't go, I really want to do breakfast radio, it's my number one goal in life, but I'm not starting work till 10:00 AM each day, is that cool?

Josh: I mean, what about your actual performance? Performance though, I wonder about, like, I feel like it's almost the anxiety of being tired and saying the wrong shit or not being super connected in a conversation. Do you feel the first hour, do you feel like you sort of start off really low energy and then work yourself up?

Ryan: No, it sort of depends. This might sound lame, but I actually get energised by what's on the show. Like if there's a banging segment at 6:30, you're up, you're like, oh, I can't wait to do that segment, I'm ready to go. And so that usually gets you going. And you just know that that's your job. So you just, if you're not full of beans that day, just pretend like you are. And a lot of the times on The Opposite, it'll get to 9 o'clock and I'm just going, whoa, I've spent, I'm done. But I've got through the show 'cause I've used all my energy.

Tommy: This morning he actually fell asleep on the show because he realised that they're gonna give the tickets away regardless.

Ryan: Yeah, I was like, if they give the tickets to Taylor Swift, I will sleep. I will sleep. It was actually nice doing the show in Melbourne it starts at 8 in the morning. Oh yeah, so it goes, they're like, you get to sleep.

Josh: Maybe you could organize, maybe that could be something you could wheel and deal.

Ryan: No, I don't, I don't want to. I'm actually really against that. I'm like, if, if you can't commit to Perth, then how can you expect people of Perth to commit to you? True. Um, having said that, there was about 18 breakfast shows surrounding this morning in Melbourne. Really? Yeah, it's funny. Sydney breakfast, there's Brisbane, there's a guy doing Adelaide, there's the actual Melbourne show. Like, everyone just chatting and hanging out and, oh, what's going on today?

Josh: Oh yeah, I want to get a sense, like, what is it like having a manager? What— who should have a manager? What has having a manager changed for you?

Ryan: Uh, having a manager, it's a bit weird and it's hard to explain, although Tommy would understand because you know Brad quite well. Is that Brad and I were like mates way before we were like manager-client because he is just like a lovely guy, loves talking about radio. I'm an AFL man, so we catch up and talk about the footy because he goes for the Swans and Hawthorn Sydney have had a big rivalry over the years. So he was always like a friend first. And what I get from Brad is that it's just like having a coach and a mentor, where some managers don't do any of that, and they probably don't need to because they would argue that's not their job. And they would say, no, my job is to get you work and I take a cut, and then that's how I get paid. So I've said to Brad, I'm not interested in a, you know, you getting a 10% cut from a $500 Instagram post. It's like, it's for me, I'd get more value out of you just telling me your thoughts on the show and getting your insight.

Josh: So does he air cheque you?

Ryan: Uh, air cheque just seems like a real sort of formal word, but he'll just listen from time to time and go, 'Oh,' and just give his thoughts. But it's a tricky one because he's not the boss of the station, and he, he knows that, and the bosses know that. But you know, when you've got an experienced radio guy who's willing to, you know, tell you what he thinks, then like, you'd be silly not to listen. He was also the boss of The biggest radio station at the time in Australia. And I think Radio Today did another one of their lists and it was like the best PDs of all time and he was number 1. So he's got a very good ear. So when he says, oh Ryan, I think you're talking too much shit about this, or why haven't you mentioned that, you go, yeah, good point.

Tommy: The reason Josh and I can't have managers, because we'd tell them to get fucked.

Josh: Yeah, well, what I'm curious about is like not necessarily the manager thing, but definitely recently, not even mental, but the coaching sort of thing I'm starting. You know, we've heard it so many times, people like Craig Harper who we've had on the show talking about, and you know, Lisa Stevenson, like talking about the benefits of having a coach. Um, do you think, what is it that say, what I'm curious about at the moment is learning from people who are older and more experienced. What are some of the areas that you think that we can learn? Like, because you cross from into podcasting into sort of more newer media, what is it that podcasters do you think can learn from the older school, uh, successful radio dudes?

Ryan: And what can podcasts learn from old school radio dudes? Well, I think radio, and whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, I think radio is very good at the sizzle and to ham it up and to really showbiz it. It's not the quiz, it's the biggest $10,000 quiz ever. And they really, they know how to get a bit of sizzle, which sometimes can be over the top, but they know how to, you know, get a good headline and make it sing. And so I often listen to podcasts that— well, at the start of this podcast, you know, you said this is Ryan and blah blah blah, but I've tuned into some podcasts where you listen for 5 minutes and go, so who's that guy and what are they talking about? And so I think in most radio breaks you will hear pretty much from a song you know, this is the topic, this is what we're talking about, and it really just brings you up to speed real quick.

Tommy: Well, they also have to, because they're for everyone. Yeah, right. So they're on a platform that, you know, every Joe Blow in the car or at home— back in the day, no one has— most people don't have radios now in their house. Yeah, on their phone maybe. But, um, yeah, they are for everybody, so they need to be very, yeah, um, explanatory in there.

Ryan: Yeah, I think, but people can come in at any time as well.

Josh: Yeah. And I think with this show You know that like what I hope is that jokes that we make, you know, 3/4 in are related to the ones at the start. And we can do that because we know that, you know, those people who are listening later on started at the start.

Ryan: Yeah, I think it's like a really lame little technical thing, but when radio would talk about like resetting, you know, because new people are tuning in and tuning out and they'll quickly go, yep, so we're talking about this, blah, blah, blah. And I think with some podcasts, I always try to remind myself that this might be the first podcast someone's listened to of mine. So even instead of saying, so Bridget, I'll say, so my girlfriend Bridget, and just those little things. And you just— I think radio is good at just resetting and reminding everyone, whereas podcast, you are part of a community. It could be a real small— do you say niche or niche? Uh, we're saying so niche.

Tommy: Yeah, we're starting.

Ryan: Yeah, so even if you are really small in your niche, just spending an extra couple of seconds on a couple of explain words and pretending like this might be the first episode That's always a good thing, I reckon.

Josh: It's interesting because like I had that same thought, but I think that we've almost, and I would love for you to give us a bit of an air check, tell us what you think and give us some feedback. Because part of the things that I think about with the Daily Talk Show and Tommy and I have spoken about it, which is like once, like after episode 1 and we've mentioned Bri and Amy, we don't reset because we're like, people will eventually figure it out. Maybe it will create a bit of a jolting sensation where people are like, okay, who is this? Who is Bodhi? What are these connections? And creating those sort of unique pathways versus handing everything up. With your ears, when you're listening to what we do, what stands out in regards to, you know, if you were producing the daily talk show as a podcast, what would the feedback and be harsh?

Ryan: I think what we were just talking about, but I wouldn't say it's bad because you're not, it's not really, there's not too many in-jokes that even if, you know, when you hear an in-joke and you don't quite know what it means, but then you kind of think about it, it's pretty obvious, I guess. And like, so you catch up pretty quick with that sort of thing. I'm just trying to think of episodes I've listened to. No, it's all explained pretty well. Like you always mentioned that, you know, you guys do similar jobs and you might be teaming up in bits and pieces and it all makes sense. I think it's just these— if you have huge assumptions, and I can't think of any that you've had, but just huge assumptions like everyone obviously already knows this bit so I can skip to the next bit.

Josh: Because I always think of like who Jesse McCartney is on the Sam Mack episode.

Ryan: Yeah, well, I think even when you listen to a true crime podcast or watch a documentary, there's always that— not like previously on, but there's always that quick little 'Yeah, so Adnan's in jail for this reason,' and you— and, and all those little bits and pieces. And like, I don't know if you guys are bad at that, but I just— in podcasts in general, there's a lot of, uh, things. And I guess one thing to keep in mind is that serial and true crime are designed to listen from episode 1 till the finish in order, whereas your daily talk show, people won't discover you and be like, 'Oh, I can't start now at 100— episode 155, I have to go back to the start.' Like, they won't. They'll just say 'Oh, Jules Lundr's on an episode, I'll listen to that one.' And so they might—

Josh: What is your listening habit in regards to podcasting in general? And on ours, do you pick out guests?

Ryan: For yours, it's all the headline. For your one, I go, 'That's a topic I want to know about.' So I listened to, um, one of the headlines was the podcast charts, and you know how those people who have been manipulating— and I just saw, 'Got him, Josh, you got it, got him!' Podcast charts. And I went, 'I want to know about podcast charts.' I heard about For me personally, I'm a bit of a nerd for like creativity and creative process, and some other bloke's figured out 4 steps to come up with the great idea, and I'll— if it's your podcast or other ones, I get suckered into those ones. I'm like, oh, what are the 4 tips? I'd love a great new way to come up with ideas.

Tommy: And then you get there and there's actually not 4.

Ryan: Yeah, and I'm like, stop talking about fucking Josh's Hat rebrand and get back to the creative process ideas. Um, but yeah, no, and, and I guess that's the difference between even with like a Tim Ferriss, or I like James Altucher. It is the head— I just look through the, you know, the last 10 episodes and go, oh, that one looks good. I won't just listen to all of them.

Tommy: Yeah, it's weird what the platforms, um, in like the, the habits the platforms will have you creating in your life, you know, like even just with ads and skipping past stuff. Like for instance, the habit with podcasting, jump on Joe Rogan's podcast, I reckon there'll be 6 minutes of ads. I'll just skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, done. And so we're looking at things to make it easier for us, or just, you know, ad— I mean, ads is one thing, but then yeah, headlines. How do you, how do you see it? Are you looking for a guest? And there's so— yeah, I mean, so many of these things, and there's so many people, but there are similarities in people's habits that form out of these platforms.

Ryan: Yeah, I listened to this. Who's that guy? Is it Noah Kagan? Noah Kagan? He used to work, I think he got sacked from Facebook or something. And that's like his tagline. It's like, "I was employee 31 and I got sacked from Facebook." Yeah, he's got AppSumo and stuff like that. Yeah, so he's pretty good at those headlines of, "Here's 4 ways to be more productive in your morning," or something. And then at the start of every episode, he's like, and it's such clickbait and I hate that I get sucked into it, but he's like, "Yep, got 4 great tips. The third one is gonna be the game changer. But anyway, let's get started." and he's straight in. And so straight away, in 20 seconds, I'm like, fuck, I gotta listen to this. Whereas if he comes on and goes, hey guys, yeah, just, you know, another day in the office, thought I'd record a podcast, I'm like, fuck, I've gone. Like, I'm so— I've left already.

Josh: Do you think it's a good— do you feel good as a listener hearing that, that sort of tease?

Ryan: Um, well, it's more if I'm looking for it because I want to know what the answer is, then you want to know. Like, you never Google something and then not— you go, oh, what's the answer to this? Like before when we looked up the Dropbox market cap, you wouldn't Like, I wouldn't— I would just keep looking until I got the answer.

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: And so if I want to know the answer— Made for a great episode, episode 175, Ryan Googles Things.

Josh: But how much do you think— because I think maybe one of the tactics that we've had, and I say maybe because everything's very fucking loose here. Yeah. But do you think that there's— I've tried to attach— because I, I just really quickly write out the Like my strategy for when it comes to getting these live is I'll, you know, just basically process the audio or that sort of thing, export, and then I'll play random sections on QuickTime Player, and then I'll just like write 3 words for each one. I'm like, ah, there we're talking about money and charities, all right, money and charities. And then I take the best sort of headline and put it there.

Ryan: It depends what you listen, because some, some podcasts I would listen to, and when I listen to a Tim Ferriss or those ones, you kind of like, you want to learn something or hear something new or be interested, um, and so you'll pick that, that little bit. But having said that, I listen to Kate, Tim, and Marty most days on their podcast for 20 minutes while I'm driving, and for me it doesn't matter what the topic is, where I start the episode, where I finish. I just like— that's like an entertainment podcast. So I guess I don't know if that's a chat you guys need to have. Are we entertaining? Are we teaching? Are we informing? Are we doing all of it? Like, 'cause I guess the reason you listen will depend, so it will affect how you promote it.

Tommy: And the one, the business podcast, like how we built this.

Ryan: Sorry, what category are you guys in?

Tommy: Yeah, what are we in?

Josh: We're in society and culture or culture and society.

Ryan: Sometimes I feel like it could be a business one even if you're talking about marketing and how you guys go about your work.

Josh: I just don't want, I wanna set the lowest expectations that we possibly can in the sense of like, if we can if we can do that, like, I just don't want anyone to feel like when they listen to the show that we— they can hate us, they cannot like our personalities or like our content, but I'd like to think that when people listen to us, they're getting sort of what they expected in the sense of we're not trying to sell anything too grandiose in the sense— even like me writing about digital content producer advice, like, I got sucked in by that.

Ryan: Yeah, I listened to that on the plane on the way over.

Josh: I mean, and how do you feel listening listening to it, do you think like, did you, did the reward sensors actually go off? Are you like, uh, this is sort of like half-baked, this is just them answering some questions?

Ryan: Well, I think when you guys do it, it's like, here's kind of the topic we're discussing, and I just find like that nice chat and interesting. It's not like you've said this is the number one thing, yeah, digital podcast producers should not do or whatever. So I think, I think like I said, that's the reason I listened, and I listened to the whole episode, and I've, you know, it was, it was easy to listen to you guys. I feel weird saying this now, but you know, it sounds It sounds nice. You guys have a nice flow.

Tommy: It's a long flight from Perth.

Ryan: Yeah, you got a lot of podcasts to get through between Melbourne and Perth. No doubt about it at all.

Josh: Where's video at with what you guys are doing in radio world?

Ryan: I mean, I sort of have this— I won't say fight, but it's like an ongoing conversation about where it fits because there's a lot of measurement of we've got this many views this week or this much engagement. So they're measuring it and you wouldn't measure it if you didn't care. Um, but then they're very much like, well, you know, radio ratings are important. And I would argue that if you're spending however many thousand dollars on a billboard that some people might drive past, why wouldn't you spend that much thousand promoting a video that's on people's phones that you can target people in Perth between the ages of 18 and 39? Um, that's a good advertisement. And if it's content, even better, because then they'll— oh, these guys are great. I think that might be a better investment than just putting a billboard up. But, um, Yeah, when it comes to ratings, you don't see the Facebook and YouTube views. However, if you see a funny video on Facebook and that's what makes you fall in love with the guys, it counts towards the radio rating. So it's, for me, it should be counted as like almost content marketing for a radio show.

Tommy: I wonder if they spent dollars, like I'm sure it's a hell of a lot of money they've spent, you know, punching into TV ads and billboards. If they spent that on like highly specific targeted ads. Like, they treat it like a, you know, a product that, you know, is trying to get click-throughs to a website to purchase something. But they, they did it for each personal brand on the show to, to target and build this, like, within Perth.

Ryan: Yep.

Tommy: And I wonder what— if there would be a reward. It just probably wouldn't make sense to the people at the top.

Ryan: It might just be hard to measure. So I did this video a few weeks ago.

Tommy: No, but that's the thing, that maybe they're not They don't want to measure it, but they see them. But you have to commit to see if you can measure something because it might work.

Ryan: Well, like I said, I spend more time looking at my phone than I do looking at billboards.

Tommy: Yeah, fact.

Josh: But are you the—

Tommy: I'm a billboard hunter.

Josh: I wonder if you're the classic different listener of radio in the sense of like, I guess billboards make sense with the idea that people listen to radio in cars.

Ryan: Yep.

Josh: And so I guess, you know, part of the question is, is there a sense that you're building a radio brand, a media brand? How do you describe what the show product is?

Ryan: Good question. The answer would be, I— if there's a conversation about that, I probably wasn't involved in it. But yeah, I think the difference is— and I agree with the billboards and bus stops in that you listen in the car, and so they're putting advertising where you can listen. So you can see the sign and go, oh, those guys, and tune on. However, I'm pretty sure radio ratings aren't based on what you actually listen to, they're based on what you can remember that you listen to. And I reckon, yeah, I reckon you would remember a great piece of content 10 times more than you would remember a great billboard. And when I say great billboard, most of them just like, here's their names and they're smiling. Like, well, having said that, there's a new billboard campaign coming out in Perth early next year and I'm very excited about it and it has music lyrics involved. And I'm actually— it's a bit different because they're using music lyrics instead of just being like, here's Hardy Xavier and Ryan. Like, oh yeah, it's sort of like a karaoke kind of vibe of like, yeah, we're singing like your favourite bangers and that sort of thing. So yeah, yeah, I covered myself there.

Tommy: Yeah, jumping on the Baby Shark bandwagon, that song, baby shark, it's just replaced.

Ryan: Yeah, I've got a question for you about video, for both of you, that I've written down here because I wanted to get your thoughts. So yeah, I've got like, you know, we've all got limited time and resources and whatever, that's a fact of life. And so I do the breakfast show every morning and I've got a limited amount of time to do other stuff. And so my conundrum is, if you had to choose one or advise me on one or the other, the difference between me making 3 or 4 little fun, quick, easy videos, you know, me holding my phone going, hey guys, it's Ryan, quick story, or doing one video a month that has vox pops and includes an expert and it has this big epic thing and it's like an undercover prank and it's just this one big epic story. Would I rather do one of trying to connect with—

Tommy: and what platform are you using?

Ryan: Um, I think for the— let's say Facebook, just because that's where like a majority of the people are in general. But then for me in particular, it's probably like my biggest audience on Facebook. And then secondary, it's like people on Facebook in Perth, because you know, if you— people in Perth watching your videos, they're probably more likely to listen listen to your show and stuff like that. And so I'm always like, oh, if I can put the time in, do I put it into making this one big epic thing every couple of weeks? I'm hoping people will really enjoy it and you can actually tell an interesting story, um, that's, you know, that you might remember and it might stick around for a year. People might go, I remember that one, versus, you know, a very disposable quick 40-second, what do you guys think of this, comment below with a GIF.

Josh: So is the conversion going— you're wanting it to be the them listening to the radio show? Like, what do you— what are you wanting the result to be?

Ryan: Well, I think what I get my pride in is at the end of this year I'll look back and go, Tommy and I made an awesome video for Dave and we raised $20,000. And that's a big memorable moment that for the whole year we can look back and go, that was an incredible thing Dave did and we did a great job supporting it. And for me it's like those big ones you remember, um, which is why I kind of think maybe I should just go big or nothing because no one ever gets the end of the year and go, oh, remember that meme that was like, tag a friend who said this? I mean, what a great 2018 we had on the back of that. However, when you think of Facebook and even what you guys are doing, it becomes a habit if you do it every day. I just know there's going to be a new episode and, and, you know, you get to know the host, you get to know the people because it's so consistent and it's daily and you can depend on the daily talk show being out there. You can depend on Unilad having something funny, you can depend on news.com having something there every day. And so, and I think that is important, same as, you know, radio's on every day, become a habit.

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: So I'm like, do I want to focus on the habit or do I want to focus on just those one or two big dogs?

Tommy: Yeah, well, you're already, you're already creating 3 hours of radio a day, 5 days a week, and getting paid for it. We do the same, mate, but, um, we're just, we're not getting paid for it.

Ryan: But do you reckon I earn more from my daily show than you earn from your daily show?

Josh: You definitely do. Absolutely, there's two of us, we have to split $0 two ways, which is hard.

Ryan: Negative, what's literally half of nothing?

Josh: Well, I think like you look at say Jason PJ or whatever in Melbourne, and one thing that they've always done pretty well is incorporated their show content So like, for instance, I think that if the, if the goal is to get people to listen to the show, I think having integrated content around the show is important. So actually using things like the studio as a character or using, you know, benchmarks that are within the show and extending them beyond it. And it's not just saying, hey, what do you think? It's actually saying, okay, here is a mini benchmark that is in the style of the show that we're doing in, you know, in the studio, but it's a video versus saying, okay, you want to build a general brand and you want to create some buzz, which might mean actually not doing things that are like— it actually is the reverse. It's saying you're going to produce content that you can talk about on the show versus creating content that gets people to listen to the show. So, like, and I think that Tommy and I talk about that too, which is like, it's that common advice, which is like, if you want to be, you know, your role as a breakfast show host is to have an interesting life and have something to talk about. And so, I think that if you just make your interesting life, your next full-time job is just creating content. And all of that stuff then becomes what you talk about on air, using Tommy as an example. O-Bike, talking about doing the O-Bike videos and then being able to go on in on the breakfast show and say, yeah, I did this thing, yeah, I've got coverage here, and blah blah blah. I mean, does that make— does, does that sound like the direction that you're going in?

Tommy: Before you answer that, I think one of the hard things and the— that I empathise with about being in a team that is on a radio show is getting the others on board with your idea or trying to integrate something, a benchmark, like it needs to then fit in with what they are wanting for the direction. So there's just a challenge, right?

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. Because I think number one would be definitely the show and you want it to be good and you want it to involve one of or all of the whole team. And because, you know, it adds that kind of chemistry of, you know, when Hamish is getting stitched up by Andy, it's not just Andy going out and doing a thing. That, you know, you can associate that with the show. But I guess, and to come full circle to what we talked about before, the thought of having an idea and not being able to do it, like, really kills me. And sometimes I go, oh, it's not really up their alley, the show's not really interested, the station doesn't like it, but I've just got this itch I need to scratch, so I'm just going to go make it on my own. And that's, um, it's probably not— I don't know if that's a bad attitude, but I think I'd always want to be leaning towards, if it's 50/50 of make it or don't make it, just find a way to make it.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think the big pieces you've had some wins with, and I think it's, you know, because if it came back to what are you doing it for, it's, it sounds, it's more for you than the numbers because you get a lot of, you get a lot of joy, I see, out of creating stuff. Um, but you've also had the byproduct of that, which is gaining those numbers.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so it's a hard game. Are you feeling it all now with some numbers that are high? Do you feel that that's kind of creeping into the thoughts and the feelings around just the joy that comes from creating? You wanting to do it because you need to get those numbers up because they're fucking high now?

Ryan: Well, the numbers feel nice. It is a nice ego boost. And I can say I've spoken to a lot of, especially Facebook people, who always said, I just love making the content, it's just about the content, the numbers don't matter. But then Facebook changes their algorithm and instantly those same people are like, no, I don't really know if Facebook's for me anymore, I'm not getting the numbers. And you're like, well, I mean, again, you've got to come back to like, why are you doing it? Um, is it for the number? And by all means, like, numbers get you paid, and if that's what you want, then don't be ashamed of it. Um, but I don't know, sometimes just—

Josh: not even numbers get you paid. I can be testament to that, says big numbers, the Daily Talk Show Josh. Yeah, well, even Even just the, I mean, YouTube, the thing is with YouTube, you know, you can have, I had one video, not to like, you know, that crazy, but I had one doco that got 150,000 views and I'll still make $0 on that video. And if you were to monetize, you'd be making like a few bucks. So, I think that the other thing too is it's less about the numbers and more the influence that you're gaining. And so, I just, I reckon part of the thing with what you're doing, which I guess is a slight challenge, is trying to work out how to align what you're doing with radio to online so that then you're doubling down. Because I even think about that with the podcast and things like that. Like if I'm doing two things and I'm putting in heaps of energy, but they're not completely going on the same path, it feels less like hedging my bets and more just stretching myself too thin and not doing one thing. Yeah, the best I can.

Ryan: Well, my sweet spot is when I do like an on-the-road, you know, Vox Pop type interview thing. Uh, that can be a part or all of a great video, but then it also edits up really nice to be a great radio segment. And then if the topic's right, you'll probably get a decent web article, and it's like '6 out of 10 people from Canberra reckon this about this topic,' and suddenly the same activity, that same— I went out once, radio, great segment, we'll play that twice. Video, bang, that'll get shared a bunch. Article goes great and everyone's a winner. So that's like the crème de la crème, but they sometimes work on some and not others.

Tommy: Yeah, well, what's hard about the two platforms is one lives on, one doesn't. Yeah, as much as you put it into a podcast on your radio show you've said it and it goes over people's head. Yeah. And then that online piece of content just will hang around. You could repost it again. You're not allowed to replay it.

Ryan: Well, that's the one thing I hate about— I'm actually jealous of filmmakers and even musicians who make those banging songs that last for decades and decades, because a film lasts forever. You make The Castle, and surely you go to bed every night being happy, being like, I've made something great that's lasted the test of time. But no one ever goes, oh, Ryan, that radio show you did on April 26th in 2014, I mean, that was one of the great shows, bud. Yeah, let's go have a listen to that again.

Josh: Episode 170, that's the one I go to bed to every night. My first kiss was to episode 170. It was our wedding podcast, which was great.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, there's less prestige in some of these forms of media, but I think everything, like the one thing about what you get to do every day, it is your training. You're not at the gym, you're training creatively at the radio station. And so that it does, you might do it. Like think about the video you and I made of that first one looking for your, or not even looking for your birth mom saying, happy Mother's Day to all the mothers out there. And I didn't get to meet mine and you should watch it. It's at 11 million views, do it.

Ryan: On my page, 300 or total, just saying.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. And so, but if you didn't do that and that's like one of the pieces along the journey, from doing all this other stuff. Some stuff sticks, some stuff doesn't.

Ryan: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: What are you up to at the moment, Ryan? Like what's creatively, what's the stuff you've got in the pipeline?

Ryan: I like stuff that's real, that sort of, so at the moment I wanted to do a thing about how expensive it is to have a baby. 'Cause I'm thinking that Bridget and I are trying for a child and my friend's just had a kid and he's like, the baby sheets are like $300. And like the cot is, and pram are thousands of dollars and it's just outrageous. It's outrageous.

Josh: Just fucking get a big sheet, cut it up 4 ways and then sell the other 3.

Ryan: Yeah, so a few years ago I would have been like, oh, let's do a skit about baby prices or something. And I was like, oh, I'm sort of, I don't know if I'm past that, but just, it doesn't excite me as much as doing something real. So what we've done, was I telling you about this yesterday? We started a brand called The Best for Your Child. We've printed t-shirts, we've got the domain, oh, do we have, I don't think we've got the domain name, but we've got it.

Josh: Josh, get it, get it. I've got it.

Ryan: Damn it, damn it, I shouldn't have said, as soon as I could feel it coming out of my mouth, I was like, you can't drop a domain question in front of Josh and expect him not to claim it.

Tommy: He's bought every domain from every word you've said in the last minute.

Ryan: So basically we're going to literally sell jars of air. We're gonna set up a little trestle table out the front of like Baby Bunting or something and sell jars of air to parents. And it's called The Best For Your Child because A, just think of that marketing. Excuse me, sir, you're a new dad? Yeah. Do you want the best for your child? Well, yeah, of course I do. Oh, cool, great. 3 jars for $20. Perfect. And then the thing is when someone— because everyone's got that kind of, say, a little bit of fear of you don't want to be a bad dad. Like, you could never live with yourself if you weren't the best dad you could be. And if you say, no, I don't want to buy it, and then the person goes, so you're saying you don't want the best for your child? And so it's a bit of a test on—

Josh: you're like those fuckers from Oxfam who hang out like, do you, uh, do you, uh—

Ryan: oh, I wrote for news.com.au. I wrote an article about this. This one lady was like, you have some money, have some money. I was like, no. And she's like, what, so you want the kids in Africa to die? And I was like, fuck you, I know you're getting commission on this, mate. Don't think you care about Africa, you're just trying to pay your hostel bill for tonight.

Tommy: You know what your, um, your idea needs? Charity connection. If I've ever— if I have any experience, it's link it up.

Ryan: Well, I think I just want to, hey, just make a statement piece about how much people are charging for baby stuff. Yeah, I wanted to also just really out the corporations for like, we know you use scare tactics, you're not trying to serve your customer, you're trying to scare them. And the best way to prove how easy it is is by doing it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Ryan: So I'm still figuring out how to capture the video and how to play it out on air maybe, but I just know that that would be quite funny to see some guys in t-shirts that says The Best for Your Child selling jars of air that say The Best for Your Child, asking new parents, do you want the best for your child?

Tommy: Yeah.

Ryan: So look out for that in a few weeks.

Josh: Interesting things too. Ryan, I think what's interesting about what you're— what you do commonly as well is you're not necessarily having the conversation within the content. You're using the content as a way of sparking the conversation. I think that that's like an interesting distinction and something to focus on is the sense of like, okay, this is— this is sparking a conversation to then have that conversation on mainstream platforms through news and things like that. And I think that that's a That seems like a strength of yours to be able to expand something to go beyond just the current platform, which I think is interesting.

Ryan: Yeah, I find that interesting. And it's especially interesting when like you can kind of plan for it, but you also don't know what's gonna happen. And this is a really boomtish sort of example. But once I did a late night Vox Pop asking about dick pics, 'cause you always hear storeys about guys sending dick pics, but you never ever, ever hear a girl say that they actually want one or like it. You always just see girls in the office being like, oh, this gross dude sent me a picture of his dick.

Josh: Gross.

Ryan: So I was like, I'm gonna ask girls honestly after they've had a few beers. It's 2 AM. Do you actually like getting them? So I asked people and a few yeses, a few nos. Then I started asking the guys, who do you send them to? And they were like, girls? Nah, you send dick pics to your mates. Like, that's really funny. And I was like, what? That's ridiculous. And they're like, yeah. And then I was like, all right, let's go and do the whole thing again, but we're going to ask blokes 'Who do you send them to?' And probably spoke to 20 people and 17 were like, 'Gotta send them to you boys.' And one actually, guy said, 'If you don't send dick pics to your lads, they're not your lads.' And another guy said, 'If you don't send a picture of your dick to your boys, you're gay.' So is this—

Josh: and so obviously really a trend? Is this something—

Ryan: well, because that's the thing, we didn't know, but we just got on the street and asked the question and we stumbled on it, and then we— it was a trend. And so We sent the head— and that's the headline— boys actually send more dick pics to their mates than girls. So news.com's like, yep, that's a juicy headline, we'll take a slice of that. And then on the news.com.au Facebook page, all the comments are from blokes being like, did you not know this? Like, they were like shocked that we were shocked.

Tommy: I actually didn't know.

Josh: Yeah, Tommy, I feel completely normal about our friendship now.

Ryan: You guys have been validated.

Tommy: I've been getting from a random number, dick pics.

Josh: Was that you, Josh? Oh yeah, sorry, that was, yeah, that was my Spanish number. From the dick phones.

Ryan: Yeah, and it's funny 'cause you see it go on news.com and then I get run sheets from the other breakfast shows in the company and then everyone was doing that phoner the next morning.

Tommy: That's great.

Ryan: And I think like you were just saying before, I hadn't actually thought of it in that context, Josh, but it was the starting point for the, you know, to become a topic of conversation rather than the conclusion, I guess.

Josh: Yeah, Collective Noun from Queensland did that in a massive way with their recent Uber Eats delivery drivers eating some of the food, which I saw go everywhere. It was amazing hearing the start of that and seeing that on social media and then seeing it develop over time. I think it's a really powerful way of doing things.

Ryan: Has someone done a video where the Uber Eats driver just can't find your house and you're like halfway down the street in your pyjamas going, oi!

Tommy: Over here.

Ryan: And they're like, oh, what? But the map says this. And I'm like, no, it fucking doesn't, mate. I said number 14 and here I am.

Josh: That was my— Not only was that my life, but I was a beta tester of Uber Eats. And basically at the beginning, they said that the Uber Eats driver had to come to your door.

Ryan: Yep.

Josh: And every time they didn't come to your door, they would actually credit you. So, I ended up like, my apartment was really hard to get to. So, about every single order never got to my door and I like, I started on like $200 of credit and just ended up like— I took— like, if you look— if you were to look at the back end of my account on Uber Eats, I'm sure there's like a big red flag.

Ryan: So let me put this to you, because I've had a similar fight with Domino's because they've got this thing like you pay an extra $2 for a 20-minute guarantee. I saw this, that was a good video. Yeah, and if they don't make it in 20 minutes, you get a free pizza.

Tommy: The poor bastards are on bikes Yeah, but here's the thing.

Ryan: For me, it wasn't paying for to get it faster. For me, it was me paying $2 for my next pizza. I didn't want them to make it on time because as soon as I was like, oh, there's a free pizza at stake. And so my question to you, Josh, is did you prefer them to get lost and you get credits? Or did you just want the food?

Tommy: Yeah, of course he did.

Josh: I know, I definitely, uh, I was all about that credit. I remember like we had one case where, um, our food like we ended up like splurging on this place. It cost us like $80 for delivered food and it came cold. Oh, and but it was credit fucking wrapped because I was like, mate, Bree, enjoy the fucking pulled beef because it's fucking on me. It's on Uber Eats. We're not paying for shit. You know, we got fancy cold shit food, but we didn't have to pay for it. That's right. The real Daily Talk Show, everyone.

Tommy: I was just going to say The reality is that if you are starting a business or you have a brand, this is what you're up against. People looking for content opportunities in your business model.

Ryan: And Tommy and I and Josh will be those content opportunities. Exactly. So look out.

Tommy: So the warning's out there.

Josh: I'm not even creating, I'm not fucking creating shit with mine. I'm literally just the troll that's trying to get his free beef. I'm not even filming it. So I'm the lowest of the scums. But, uh, Ryan, mate, thanks for, uh, popping in. How often are you coming into Melbourne? Are you going to be back here again soon?

Ryan: Yeah, I'll be back soon. And footy finals is my Christmas, so being in Melbourne in September, I love it. So I've got a survey break in 2 weeks, I'll be back for a bit doing that.

Josh: Uh, so do you think Collingwood's going to win? I saw our mate B-Max been posting since probably April or something, Collingwood's gonna win the Premiership.

Ryan: I'll tell BMAC he's got 6 more days to go until they get eliminated in the prelim by Richmond. You heard it here first on the Daily Talk Show, episode 170.

Tommy: 175. 175.

Josh: 175. You say you fucked it? I told you it's hard work. It's a daily talk show. Have a good one.