Everything's changed & nothing's changed

Tommy: Wait a minute!

Josh: Crossface, the Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett. Daily Talk Show episode 174. Good morning, TJ.

Tommy: Friday fun one. You just venture in. You're just venturing into the Friday. I'm ending it. I even had a— it's so sunny here in Melbourne. What's the weather in Amsterdam?

Josh: It's actually been a little bit chilly.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, just a little bit cold. Well, yeah, tomorrow's going to be freezing here, but I've been enjoying a few beers in the sun for lunch. So, you know, ooh la la.

Josh: I've been enjoying the cooler weather. It's like the perfect weather to walk around.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: The biggest risk at the moment isn't sunburn, but getting hit by a cyclist because there's so many fucking bikes.

Tommy: Really? Is there Obike over in Amsterdam?

Josh: Is there nothing? I'm sure Obike would never even try because there's just so many there's just so many like personal bikes, they're just everywhere, just like you wouldn't believe. Like, it's, yeah, it's, it's insane, you know. Everything's designed for it.

Tommy: Each year they do, or maybe every 6 months or something, they do, um, go down the river and fish out heaps of bikes that have been thrown into the river. And they've got this machine, this like, it's basically a, um, a big excavator that is on a boat and it just like reaches down and picks out— almost looks like a skill tester machine and they're just pulling out bikes. People must still throw them. Yeah, I did hear that like, um, you get fined for riding electric skateboards over in, uh, Amsterdam.

Josh: Yeah, I'd believe it because there's so— this— there's such a culture around, uh, like as a pedestrian you're a second-class citizen as well. Like, you have to watch out, like, when you're, um, when you get to sort of pedestrian crossings and stuff like that, it's not like a given that they'll just, uh, like, stop for you. Like, if they're on a bike, pedestrians, like, I'm sure they probably are meant to stop because some of them do, but a lot of cyclists just— but there's like hundreds of them, like, at a traffic light. It will go green and there's just like big bike footpaths and none of them wear helmets.

Tommy: Yeah, because they're all stoned riding bikes. It doesn't really make quite much sense. Hey, I want you to pull out your phone right now.

Josh: Have you got your phone with you? I do, I do. It's just on the other side of the room. Breezy, is my phone just there? Is that, is that, uh, Let's, uh, standby. Uh, can you just grab my phone? I've just woken up. Oh, it's just behind my laptop. I feel bad now.

Tommy: You had your eyes closed as you were looking around?

Josh: No.

Tommy: So open up, open up your Instagram. We're going to do a little trick that's called editing after the podcast, which means that you've got more work under your belt. But I'll, I've got the audio clip from something that I just posted on the Daily Talk Show. And we'll play that, but I want you to watch it right now and then come back after and give me your feedback.

Josh: Okay, perfect. Stand by.

Tommy: Is that around the right way?

Josh: No, do it the other way.

Tommy: Happy birthday, Josh. I don't know if this is quite your age. He's 28. Well, we stuffed it. Where'd you find that?

Josh: On Twitter.

Tommy: We had to go back to a tweet from 2014 to find out your age. That's better. Happy 28th birthday. Not off to the greatest of starts, this video, but I wanted to make it for you to celebrate some of the weird things that you do.

Josh: Toe thumb.

Tommy: You have an entire Instagram account dedicated to your thumb. Year 11, you had your own radio show. I'm Josh, I'm a geek, I'm a blogger, I like Apple, iPhone lover. And you used to sing to people.

Josh: To the left, to the left, to the left, to the left.

Tommy: You always have to ruin a good moment. Like when I first got my drone and I flew it up above me and you came in from behind, started to hump me. But even with all that said, Josh, keep being you. We love you. That's it.

Josh: Oh, thanks, mate. So, but the, the radio, the me presenting, did you actually go through it? Did you listen to the whole episode of the 2007 one?

Tommy: Yeah, I listened to that 2007 one.

Josh: Jesus.

Tommy: I mean, when I heard it was— I thought it was more recent.

Josh: Well, the Get Cereal one was the one.

Tommy: Oh, that was.

Josh: I'm a geek, I'm a blogger. That was, that would have been two— that was like very recent or not very recent, but that would have been maybe 4 or 5 years ago. It was about 5 years ago. That was for SYN FM, which is like a what is it, like a community radio station? Yeah. And Jack Post, who we've had on the show, and Leon Shergren, who we've also had on the show, they got asked as sort of like ex-alumni of SYN to go do a breakfast show. And they, they gave me a segment and I ended up— a tech segment, and I ended up using my whole time for the intro. So it just like plays it out.

Tommy: You can thank Mason for sourcing that audio. He came across that absolute gem. So, happy birthday, mate. I was going to try and see how long we could do the episode before you mention it's your birthday.

Josh: I know. The funny thing is I'm not a— Bree was talking about this yesterday. I'm not much of a birthday guy. Like I always just feel like I like celebrating other people's birthdays.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But I always just feel like I haven't really done anything to deserve like birthday sort of celebrations. Because like, yeah, like everyone, like I literally all I've been doing is just living. That's it.

Tommy: Well, the 30th, maybe you can. It's a milestone. It doesn't matter about what you've done. It's just like. You've survived 30 years of life. So yeah, it's, yeah, and you've lived it. So, and you've been really annoying and weird. So keep, please continue that.

Josh: To be clear though, the singing one of me singing Irreplaceable was a long time ago. That one was 2007. I was just starting VCE. I thought you were gonna say puberty. Puberty, that's only coming, I think, probably today. I think that's all starting.

Tommy: Well, no, to be honest, I couldn't find your birth date. Like, I kind of knew that you were a couple of years younger than me. I wasn't sure if it was 3 or 2. And we looked everywhere. It took us a good, like, 2 people on the case finding out.

Josh: But not Facebook.

Tommy: No, no, no. All it says on your Facebook is your birthday. You've taken away— you're one of those assholes that doesn't want people to know how old you are. Because I know that you don't care.

Josh: Maybe when I set it up, I, um— it's funny that Mason found out on Twitter because I had a thought the other day where I was like, um, maybe I would get rid of— like, I— there was an article of this celebrity who had written all these tweets years and years and years ago, and someone had gone through and collected these individual ones and created a storey around it. And I started thinking, I'm like, I'm sure I have like said some dumb shit. Um, and like people that maybe even like, you know, talking about, um, local Australians or whatever who like, um, personalities when I was a kid that I probably am like connected with now or something like that. It could be anything. So, I was like, I feel like I almost want to go through and just delete all my tweets.

Tommy: We did find one tweet that said, Pauline Hanson really has a point.

Josh: No, I'm joking.

Tommy: No, no, it was 2016 by the time Mason found a tweet that referenced your age at that point. So, we just did the math. He did the math.

Josh: I didn't tweet much.

Tommy: But yeah, yeah, definitely. It was the second last tweet. No, but if you wanna see that video, it's at The Daily Talk Show Instagram.

Josh: Instagram.

Tommy: It would be at the Facebook page, but you still haven't yet made me a fucking admin of the page.

Josh: Are you fucking kidding me?

Tommy: I just tried to get on to post it. And I tried to post and it was saying that it was posting as me, not as The Daily Talk Show. So it will be up there by the end of this episode.

Josh: 'Cause I'm fixing that now, I'm sure. You also can't access our email on your computer, can you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, also the password.

Tommy: Hey, quickly, interesting storey today. Amy and I were reading, it was on LinkedIn. Sometimes LinkedIn do these updates of like, it's like a news storey whip. So it's like the best articles from the week, and so it comes up with, you know, what's been happening. And this one, fuck, um, TripAdvisor has welcomed a landmark ruling after an Italian court has jailed a man for 9 months for writing fake reviews. So this guy, this unnamed man, tried to sell more than 1,000 positive reviews to hundreds of businesses across Italy. And, um, so he's been locked up. He got 9 months jail.

Josh: That's full-on, isn't it?

Tommy: It's crazy. And the businesses that were paying for the fake reviews also got reprimanded. They didn't say what happened, but this dude got a criminal conviction.

Josh: I guess they're trying to maybe set a, um, precedent around this sort of thing. Like, maybe it's the same equivalent to, um, you know, like, at pirating. Like, how many people— like, when we were kids, we all pirated. Like, the way that you learned how to use Photoshop and shit, well, at least when I was a kid, was you couldn't afford— you know, when you're, you know, 13 years old, there's no way that you can actually afford the software. So you go and you, like, get a crack and you pirate it. But how many people were actually like getting, um, like going to jail or being sued for that?

Tommy: Yeah, it's like, it's even like the people who downloaded, um, what's that, uh, Dallas Buyers Club. I actually heard a few people. I do know a chick who used to be a lawyer at the law firm that was sending out the letters for the production company or for the distribution company, Warner or whoever it was. So she was working for them. And then I spoke to somebody who actually got a letter, but it was never like, you've been—

Josh: Is that a movie?

Tommy: Dallas Buyers Club, a great film. Um, uh, Matthew McConaughey plays this like, um, this dude who, you know, is a womaniser and gets AIDS. He gets AIDS and then sort of goes on this sort of mission to get treatment for it and he gets really skinny and it's like an amazing performance. He's so, so good.

Josh: And so I think that the storey you're describing also happened to that Jared from Subway, wasn't it? Or didn't he get accused? No, mate, allegedly. No, but allegedly, what, didn't he lose all of his weight like from actually being sick? Like it had nothing to do with Subway.

Tommy: Oh no, I didn't hear that.

Josh: Had AIDS, but I don't know, that could— like, I shouldn't— like, that is 100%— I don't even know if I should say allegedly.

Tommy: Well, I think— well, I heard that it was a, um, he got in trouble for pornography of a minor. That's bizarre.

Josh: It feels like there's, um, yeah, for whatever reason he's got— there's a lot of storeys on him. Like, there's a lot—

Tommy: like, I mean, it's a gamble for a company. Like, I was thinking about, um, uh, I think this is funny, I was thinking about The Wiggles. And I watch a lot of Wiggles and I know a lot of Wiggles songs. Bodhi loves them. He loves Emma and doesn't say the other, the other, the people, the blokes' names. He doesn't give a shit about them, but he just says Emma, Emma. But I was thinking—

Josh: lead singer, so they would have to just like the interview process.

Tommy: I mean, to be fair, there actually hasn't been that many new Wiggles over the generations, but there's been enough to potentially have a fuck-up in judgment. Like, imagine if they got a wiggle that did the wrong thing, and you know what I mean by the wrong thing, how it would just destroy that brand. And so there is like, um, getting, you know, people on reality shows, businesses, um, you know, the, the front and centre media personalities like that Jared dude. Like, oh my God, imagine the panic meeting at Subway headquarters. At least they would have catering.

Josh: It's not like they can vet it. Like, it's, it's, it's not like it's, uh, something that's going to be publicly available. It's not like the ESTA form where it's like, you know, tick the box if you're a terrorist or a pedophile. Like, paedophiles tend to sort of do it in secret, I guess.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so it's a, um, yeah, man, I reckon it'd be hard being um, a teacher in general, just for all the— like, I just even remember when I was, uh, in school, the sensitivity around, uh, teachers and students and sort of, you know, just like, you know, little things. Like if a teacher, um, if you're meeting with a teacher, it's sort of got to be, you know, they would always talk about, you know, being in a room with windows and stuff like that, just like That sort of pressure that teachers must be under, especially male teachers. I think it's, there's probably extra layers of complexity that we probably don't completely understand.

Tommy: Yeah. It's, I mean, you're the guy that was texting his teachers and catching up with them on Tuesdays.

Josh: Yeah, I was like the best mate of the teacher. Yeah, but I don't know whether that would exist anymore. Do you think that that still goes on?

Tommy: Oh, 100% it wouldn't. And you know, when you told me those stories, it's all I could think about. And I know you and nothing ever happened, but you know, it's where your mind goes.

Josh: But I think it was maybe because I was like this little fat awkward kid that acted like an adult where Because it wasn't like I just had a friendship with one teacher. You were the big Nick. I was like, yeah, the big Nick.

Tommy: Blowout seemed really, really, you know, just cutesy and unsuspecting. And then you were dating your 6th grade teacher.

Josh: No, but the, like, I was friends with so many teachers. It was literally like I was a staff member. But the, um, but that happened even at like multiple schools, from primary school to high school to when I was doing VCE. Yeah, that didn't change. Even when I finished VCE, the, uh, the second year I think that I was out, or maybe I think it was the second year I was out of school, I actually, um, my teacher had left, uh, teaching because his wife had a sort of a big exec job and had to move to Adelaide. And he was freelancing. And so I hired him as a freelancer and he did filming. I flew him to Melbourne and we did filming and all that sort of thing.

Tommy: Geez, you would have felt like a top dog. I look up to you now, don't I?

Josh: Yeah, exactly. You got an A+ for that one. So yeah, good job. But I think that the—

Tommy: It's just a massive power game your whole life.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. Trying to get one above the teachers. Yeah, I just— he arrives at the airport and I just say, okay guys, pop quiz. Josh, we've never done a fucking pop quiz. What does the pop quiz even mean? You're like trying to be American.

Tommy: Yeah, roll call, present, say present.

Josh: Well, I met the roll call. I was big into that when I was a kid. I had the, um, on Excel would go through and, um, create the borders for all the cells. So you would get like the, um, the little squares, and then I would use that. And I, I was really meticulous with how I actually did— like, it wasn't just a tick. Like, if you're an amateur, you just tick if they were present. If you're a legit teacher's pet and you wanted to do things properly, you would do a, um, a line. It'd just be line, line, line. And then if someone wasn't here, you'd do a cross. The whole tick thing is very— you shouldn't have a little, uh, swoosh. There should be no actual tick on a present tick, if you know what I mean.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: That was a good story, wasn't it?

Tommy: I can't say that I was into roll calls. I was trying to avoid roll calls.

Josh: Um, did you, you, did you wag a lot? Have you— what sort of—

Tommy: no, no, I wagged, I think, with, um, Campton's brother, who we talk about Charlie? We took— no, um, so Campton's brother was in my year. His name's Roland.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And we— our first ever day, I think it's the only time I ever wagged, because the other days I just told mum, sorry babe, not going today. She was like, uh, all right, this is it. Oh, come on, battle. This battle cannot be won with this little fuckhead. Um, she didn't say that, but that was how it went down. And I didn't go anyway. One day, actually, this is a good link back to Jared from Subway. We caught, I wagged and I went over to Roland's place and then we went to the train station, got on the train, went to Prahran and had a 6-inch Subway.

Josh: And only a 6-inch, mate, this is where you and I are different. If I had—

Tommy: Jared took the other fucking 6.

Josh: Okay, fuck you. I don't care what situation it was. I was a veggie delight guy. Oh yeah, you could get a Veggie Delight wrap. This is why I lost a lot of my weight as well, um, the first time. It's always when you've— there's something a little bit, um, not embarrassing, but, um, the fact that I've— because what, uh, for people who don't know, I was, uh, when I was a kid, I was about, um, like 110 kilos. And then what was it? I got down—

Tommy: what was the heaviest?

Josh: 120.

Tommy: 120. What age? Reflecting on your birthday?

Josh: Kilos at 20, 21, I was 120 kilos.

Tommy: Okay, 67 years ago. Wow.

Josh: Yeah. And so because I remember— no, because I remember I, um—

Tommy: but you're 6 foot 2, just to, just to note. He's not 4 foot.

Josh: Yeah. So he's like tall.

Tommy: So you kind of— you did, you you're just a big solid unit.

Josh: Nah, but it wasn't so— no, I was like, oh, like definitely overweight and uncomfortable and all that sort of thing. But did you—

Tommy: Bodhi actually can't see his dick. My son, his belly is so protruding outwards, he just, he looks down, he literally had to like fall forward to see his dick because he was trying to look at it and he can't.

Josh: It's— what was he trying to look at it for?

Tommy: Just because He's just a boy, mate.

Josh: He's just a fucking—

Tommy: He just likes to look. He wants to have a look. What have we got down there?

Josh: How do you know that he wanted to look?

Tommy: Was he looking stressed? Because he was looking and he was grabbing and then he sounded like he almost fell over looking forward and so he sort of squatted down.

Josh: I think I could still— I'm sure I could still see my dick. That will be the name of the episode. But I can't believe you made me work that out. But the, um, you know, but there is something weird about— because yeah, when I was, um, I lost a lot of weight. So when I was, um, in year 10, so I would have been about, uh, 15 going on 16, and I went from like the 110 kilos to like, uh, 83 kilos. And the way that I did that was I actually, we had a Central Australia camp and I really wanted to climb Uluru, which nowadays is like, well, it was then, it was super culturally insensitive. I don't really know, like, I wouldn't do it. I would love to do it because of the challenge and because it's like, it is a really fun experience. But I don't know, with what I know now and sort of, you know, being a bit more culturally aware, there was, you know, people saying, you know, the indigenous people don't like you climbing on the rock. And our whole, you know, school group did. So that's basically how I lost the weight initially.

Tommy: But then— And you climbed? Did you climb it?

Josh: Yeah, I climbed Uluru to the top.

Tommy: Yeah, see, I would like to get one in before we got full PC. I mean, now it's understandable, I understand it, but at that age I wouldn't have had any grasp of cultural insensitivity. I was probably stoned.

Josh: But now it's not even PC, right? It's literally just like, it's the— it's PC, I think, probably has negative connotations where it's like we've gone full— well, we're becoming more aware maybe as a As a culture, I reckon.

Tommy: I also think there's a lot of people who aren't aware that would have a— that would get riled up because it's what you need to get riled up about. I think like I saw a friend who was there recently and he made a video saying something like, you know, we opted for a different activity than climbing the rock because it's insensitive now. And they were on segways going through the— on the dirt.

Josh: Up the Uluru. As long as you're not walking it, it's okay.

Tommy: No, they were, they were, yeah, they're on the red dust and they were the dirt and they were just cruising along. Looked actually really fun. I'd like to do it. But I get a vibe that there would be people that are looking out for that kind of stuff. Like, but I, yeah, I get it.

Josh: There's a good Netflix series by Vox called Explained and they've actually got an episode called I think political correctness, which is really interesting. They've got like a lot of topics and you just, they go for about 20 minutes and they just go through it like real montagey.

Tommy: But I don't think it's politically, when I say politically correct or PC, not from the, you know, original owners of our land. They're not the ones that I'm worried about being PC. I'm talking about the dude who's never fucking left Melbourne who just is looking for an opportunity to jump on the bandwagon because it is now the rule, right? And they're the people that I have the issue with. It's like, don't argue with the fucking locals, it's their shit.

Josh: Yeah, no, it's interesting, the, um, talking about the Explain thing, they use a lot of montage stuff. I've been thinking like, uh, the European— I think it's the European Union— they've— I don't know if you've, you've seen this, I clicked on to one, um, post about it yesterday, but in Europe there's been all these laws around copyright that have just been sort of, I don't know what level they've been passed. I'm just Googling it now so I can actually be semi-accurate.

Tommy: I opted to not use the happy birthday song in our video because I'm pretty sure that's copyright.

Josh: Oh yeah, well, you were, yeah, I think the other one might be fine because it's a parody, me singing Irreplaceable.

Tommy: But Mason actually said to me when he found that, he's like, did Josh do that because it wouldn't be copyright?

Josh: It's just— there was probably like 10% and the rest was just me being a weird unit. But funnily enough, that— so 2007 when I did that, I would have been 16 turning 17 that year, but it was in February. I didn't turn 17 till September. But that actually would have been the same, about within a month to 2 months that I was on radio doing the Sam Mack thing, like with Sam Mack, with the Jesse McCartney thing, because that was the big song at the time.

Tommy: But did you find this thing about—

Josh: Yeah. So, the copyright thing. So, no, basically like the— what they're proposing is going to change things in a huge way. So, um, uh, EU Copyright Directive vote, Article 11 and 13 approved. And so what these, what these things mean— I, I should have— this is— we'd never do fucking research, but basically, uh, they're calling it, I think, the link tax. And the upload filter by critics. And what it's doing is— I want to find the exact details, but just going off the top of my head, one of the specific things is that this copyright directive would mean that the— if you post an article online from a news site on Twitter, if you are quoting more than one word of the article, you need permission from the publisher before you tweet it. And not only that, they can charge you for the, for the right to do it. And so what people are saying is it's like, this is fucked for free speech, but also like to be able to debate, because what it means is that if we can't be critical because the publisher will say, no, we're not allowing you to post it. Yeah. So there's all these discussions. If you just type in Europe copyright, it's— I feel like I should know a bunch more about this, but it is gone off at the moment in regards to a talking point.

Tommy: It's— there will be a tipping point. It's the Wild Wild West on the internet. In terms of copyright at the moment. People stealing songs, um, yeah, photos, using your image for, um, selling latest squeegees, um, from your Flickr account. I was looking over that. I was just— I did a bit of a deep dive into JJ today, and, um, it's such an interesting thing because I, I get this sense that— and I, and I look at your life and how it's played out up into your 28th birthday today. And it's, um, it's like there's, there's been— not even it's a lack of awareness, but it's just been you having no real concept of how you're coming across, which is the, the actual way you need to live for a period of time to work out who you are. Because it's— you can totally tell you've been on this mission to work out just who you are and who you're comfortable with being, because I can hear it in your voice on— not the one in 2007, like even later in the piece, some of your podcasts. It's almost like you're just more okay with being who you are and you've worked out who that is. And that's the beauty of age, right? Like, I sound more natural than I ever have, but in 10 years' time I'll probably think I was sounding like a bit of a, you know, weird unit. And, um, and for you, I think it's huge. Like, there is such a massive shift.

Josh: Where do you hear it?

Tommy: Well, what—

Josh: how do you— were there any specifics that you sort of noticed?

Tommy: Um, I think it's— I think you were— you had a mask on, and it's not a bad—

Josh: are you talking about the Batman mask, that photo? No, no, no, because that was a— that was the photo that I showed that 70-something-year-old editor who's told me, no one gives a fuck, Josh.

Tommy: That's right, that was a storey on this podcast. No, I think you had it. It's almost that sense of fake it till you make it, like you were doing what you thought was required in that moment. So you're not, you know, trying to fake it, but it's like the person you go, that's not really who they are. But yeah, but it was at a point where most 17-year-old kids, most 16-year-old kids, most 20-year-old kids don't know who they are yet. And it's not a bad thing. It is the beauty of life.

Josh: Well, they're just experimenting, right? They're experimenting on— I think the weird thing about my experience is, um, I can't— being in it, you don't feel that like much has changed. You feel like the same person. And also, I think the weirder part is too, like, I was on Twitter, you know, in 2007. If you go to my account, it says it's like 2009 because I actually was honoured in 2007 and then sort of a year and a half in decided to get rid of all social media. And then I, uh, I had to reset my whole account and all that sort of thing. But, um, the people that I'm connected to with on Twitter, they're people who um, you know, that they might be right now in their sort of mid-30s or, you know, late 30s or 40s, or— and so they were a little bit more developed and established in who they were. And so I think there's, there's something interesting there too, which is that, um, yeah, people would have— who have followed me along throughout all that sort of stuff, like doing even, even how different I was doing Melbourne Geek Like when I was doing— I look at these times as sort of like I'm proud in the sense of like people talking about Amazon affiliate stuff, like it's a new thing now. And I was like, when I was 21 years old, like getting cheques in the mail from Amazon for selling stuff, like, yeah, I'm really pumped about that. But at the same time, it's like I really, like, I was, I was living at home and, um, you know, didn't have to, like, just a completely different world, you know.

Tommy: Yeah, it's, you're beyond your years. And it's like when I, I made the video about when I was in Barcelona making a vlog almost, that was like 2010 or 11, and I I remember the feeling. I was feeling kind of confident. I thought I was nailing it. But when I look back on it, it's like, God, I just wasn't. And I feel that I wasn't who I am today, but I wouldn't have got to where I am today if it's not for what I did in my past. And that's for you. It's like this is this massive journey. And I think people like when you've been showing up having cracks, as much as it can annoy people. Over years and years and years, because that's where you can actually win sometimes, is just being that person that shows up and stands for something or likes, you know, is passionate about something. And then just like, that's how, how you win, because you've been practising for a long time doing, doing you, and you're getting good at doing you.

Josh: And it's funny because I even, um, it was just yesterday I think that I was sort of reflecting on, uh, our friendship and thinking about how like I tried to get into that. I'm sure other people have done this too, where you try and get into the headspace of what was my perception? What would I think of Tommy, you know, like 3 years ago? Like when it was all just sort of when we're all feeling each other out. Not in that way. We really feel each other out now. Woof, woof. It's not woof, woof, mate.

Tommy: It's meow, meow.

Josh: Don't be homophobic. We feel each other out. Um, the—

Tommy: see, you got me. I can't even, I can't even rebut that.

Josh: It's just, yeah, you can't. I've got to go with it. Isn't it funny that you can't— you, um, I was just remembering, I saw someone, um, who I'm connected with, like, who I'm mates with, who is just, um, completely in completely different worlds. And on Instagram, he did a post of, like, is it like the the loveliest guy. And it's like this photo of him and his mate and they're like hugging or whatever. He's like, hashtag, you know, no homo. I was like, fucking hell, where have you been? You can't say.

Tommy: He's stuck at a university in 2012 in America.

Josh: Yeah, but actually, so the, um, uh, we're in Amsterdam at the moment and we, um, caught up with a relative that, uh, when he was about 18 or 19, he came to Australia and we— He stayed at my parents' place and we looked after him and we, you know, did the Great Ocean Road and a bunch of other stuff and just lived with each other for a while. And he was saying, oh, he said something about "that's what she said." He's like, I learnt that from you. I use it all the time. I was like, mate. And his girlfriend is studying philosophy. And she, to sort of paint the picture of what she's like, she doesn't fly on planes because of the environment.

Tommy: Oh, wow.

Josh: Which is pretty, I just started thinking about like, fuck, like my use of reusable bags. I'm just like, fuck, if she finds out I'm fucked. So I, but Bray and I afterwards were like, man, That's one thing like being in Europe, like we want to get better with all the environment stuff. But it was funny hearing him say that, "Oh yeah, that's what she said." I was like, "Oh yeah, that's very," I sort of like played it down. I was like, "Oh yeah, that's very sort of 2009." It's not really sort of a thing anymore.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. There's a massive shift in our lifetime of what is okay, what isn't okay, or not even what is okay, what isn't okay, what you just feel isn't okay when it's said. Like, it doesn't even need to be talked about, but you just know that it's like, uh, that doesn't sit well.

Josh: You can't do it. Yeah, it's like Australia Day. The, um, yeah, the thing with, um, that I've also been noticing though, looking when I do have those glimpses of looking back I do get worried because I had this perception of who I thought I was and what I was doing as some, this like this sort of grandiose thing, which in hindsight, it was so small. And I even think about that with this podcast. I'm constantly like, I think I've gotten better over the years of just being like, actually, like thinking about, okay, the amount of people who are listening to this, like Yes, it's sort of a decent-sized room of people, you know, it's like a decent-sized event, but it's like not getting, um, too caught up in my own shit, which I think when I was younger, I think to be able to move stuff forward, I thought shit was going to be like massive.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Do you think, like, have you, um, do you think you've, uh, you've— your perception of that sort of stuff has changed over the years?

Tommy: Yeah, but I think it's probably mostly due to understanding the reality of the things after you start trying, you know. Yeah, and you start trying some new venture or launching some new creative endeavor, you, you realize, like, before I had no nothing to pull on as far as nothing.

Josh: That's what she said.

Tommy: From the top of Uluru.

Josh: No. Exactly, on the top of Uluru. That's what she said on the top of Uluru. Do you think that's too controversial for the title of today's episode? Yeah, most likely. Maybe not. Fuck it. People listen, they'll know that we're like, they'll hear the full story. They'll understand that we're not fuckwits, or maybe they'll understand we are fuckwits and then they can turn off. Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah, I think it's just information. You just gather information because you've tried a certain way and then you have an understanding. And you're right, but I think there is some level that you need of a lack of awareness on how you're coming across to a certain degree. Like I say, that there's a massive caveat around that because self-awareness is a gift and it's something that you you should explore if you don't have it, or you should at least try and exercise some self-awareness, thinking about your thinking, and, and just see how you're coming across. But there's also like, to get through a level, or to level up, or to just push through the pain barrier that a lot of people would feel if they were to critique how they're coming across, because it serves you. Like, if you're not realising that you're not actually that great to start with, like every single person is. Some people have a higher level of, you know, natural ability, but everyone starts shit. And so if you were to worry about your shitness level from the get-go, and that was the thing that saturated your thinking, you're done. And so that's where I look at you and I look at me, and we're good examples of not actually thinking that we're that bad in the moment. Yeah, but in hindsight we were. But it allows us to get to that next level. And this will, I think, be another one of those moments. With this show, even just the topics that we're talking about. I listened back to radio, the radio that I did in Shepparton, and it was also— and as much as how I was as a performer wasn't great, I also think about what I was even interested in discussing, what I was interested in sharing from my life. And I think that will be something that you and I will look back on.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely.

Tommy: As you know, like, why do we even choose to talk about that? Why do we go there? Why do we talk about Uluru? You know, all that shit. I don't know, maybe, but maybe and maybe not.

Josh: But I also think that it's going to happen less and less. I think you were looking at a time that was quite formative for you at the radio station. Yeah. And I think that we're hitting this next part of our life where maybe things change less. And I think that that can be for the worst too. I think that you can get overly conservative as you get older. Um, you know, but we do, we do tackle topics that we're not completely clear on, and, um, I think that's where it comes up. I think to close a loop on the copyright stuff, I reckon I'm just curious as where it's going to go in regards to YouTube content. Like, I don't understand at the moment how people are using the content that they're using, you know, Bits from movies and stuff like that. I think like in the US they have a fair use part of their Copyright Act, which basically I think says, you know, if you're a— if it's for non-commercial use, you can—

Tommy: Material radio.

Josh: Exactly. If you could, you can basically use bits of content or whatever.. And if it's counted as fair use, you should be right. Australia, I remember watching a, I think it might have been Hungry Beast. There was an awesome ABC show called Hungry Beast where they did all this. Yeah, it was like way ahead of its time. Danny Leake, I think, was one of the producers. Mark Fennell was on it as well.

Tommy: We should get Danny Leake on the show. He's awesome.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah, he'd be ace. And so he's had a massive weight loss journey himself. I saw he posted a before picture. He was like, ah, fucking disgusting. I was like, I don't look that far off that, so I don't know how I feel. But he, um, yeah, but they were Hungry Beast. I was thinking about it. You look at what Vox is doing or stuff like that, like that type of media which is very sort of infographic based. Hungry Beast was doing it in Australia years and years and years ago. And if you, if you just Google Hungry Beast, I think they did an episode or they did a segment specifically on fair use. Or if they didn't, uh, if you just type in, I think like Australian Copyright Explained or whatever into, um, Explained is also that Vox series title, don't get confused. I'm just using it in the generic sense. Um, you should find, I remember seeing an animation that was similar to the Hungry Beast one where they actually talk about the fact that we don't have fair use in Australia. So the laws that actually allow Americans to do what they do in regards to using bits of content, Australia doesn't have that same leeway. Yeah, so it's worth keeping in mind as well.

Tommy: Yeah, so don't— so don't— if you're listening to this show, do not steal any of this audio. We'll sue you. Actually, no, do help. Help get this out. We need all the help we can. So rip it off. Create a parody. I don't know.

Josh: I think a parrot, like doing something sort of turning it into a parody. There was a guy I saw that runs a music competition where he gets people to do covers or whatever. He had to change it to parrot. Was that just Bri? I thought that from the video that you just saw, Bri walked behind me. I thought she was naked, but she was just wearing a What's that called? Shorts. That's what I was thinking.

Tommy: I was going to bring it up, Josh, but you haven't realised you're actually naked. You've been naked this whole time.

Josh: Oh, fuck. Whoops. It's my fucking birthday. I'll do what I want. But, um, uh, I can't fucking remember what I was saying now, but, uh, I'm off to, uh, IBC today looking at all things, uh, technology and media and streaming, and I'm going to be creating a massive list and talking to companies in regards to podcasting, streaming, video stuff, all for big media company.

Tommy: So nothing's actually changed in like 15 years for you. You were doing— it's true, you're just a slim, a bit more mature, older version of you, that kid who was at events schmoozing for your company.

Josh: That was literally— that is the That's the funniest part about it is that everything's changed and nothing's changed.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And when I was—

Tommy: I like that title, "To the Potty." Yeah, I do.

Josh: That's probably better than "That's What She Said" from Uluru. Yeah. But yeah, I remember when I was a student representative council president and going to the state SRC, where, you know, you fucking talking about all these big topics and shit. And that's where, like, I learnt about, you know, refugees and asylum seekers. And, you know, it was in those things that you learn that, like, oh, seeking asylum isn't illegal. Like, with the way that people talk about asylum seekers, you would assume that this, like, that it's illegal. No, it's like, it is a right to seek asylum. But we've gone completely off topic. But it's just amazing how all of these things, like, inform your world.

Tommy: Yeah. Well, mate, happy birthday. 28.

Josh: Thank you.

Tommy: You made it.

Josh: I know. Got 2 years to catch up to you. But the fucked up thing is you're getting older too, so I don't never actually catch up. So, that's okay. That's how birthdays work, guys. The Daily Talk Show. hi@thedailytalkshow.com. Have you climbed Uluru? Do you regret it? Have you not climbed Uluru? Have you actually had the sort of sensitivities and awareness to not do it.

Tommy: Or have you booked it in and we've fucked it for you? Now just going, I'm not going to do it.

Josh: You know, you know too much. Yeah, you know too much. Thanks to Michelle for the email too. She sent an email about— we talked with Trevor Long yesterday about the dual SIM cards, and Michelle was sort of pointing out the fact that at the end of the day, we're going to move away from having phone numbers attached at all. And she was giving a great example of, um, you know, uh, when she worked for a company and would just be, you know, she would basically port, uh, phone numbers to different things for different uses. So you'd say you're in one location, similar to like, uh, the, you know, what Skype does when it comes to, you know, having a phone number and being able to direct it different ways. But, um, we do enjoy, uh, reading your emails and getting them and trying to include that content on the show as well.

Tommy: So, alright guys.

Josh: The Daily Talk Show. Have a good weekend. We'll see you Monday. Bye.