A lot of scams

Tommy: Wait a minute!

Josh: Crossface, the Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett. Daily Talk Show episode 176. Good morning, Tommy Jackett.

Tommy: Good evening. I know it's towards the afternoon. I know, I've just cooked dinner, so I think it's nighttime.

Josh: I'm confused. I probably should say Good afternoon to you because it's afternoon where you are. It is morning where I am in Barcelona.

Tommy: Just say what's up, homie. Did you—

Josh: what's up, homie?

Tommy: Did you see me— did you— not much. Um, did you see me moving my jaw just then, like, like I've got a sore jaw?

Josh: What's been happening? What have you done?

Tommy: I've, um, I, uh, yeah, um, no, I noticed like one of my one of the sides of my jaw right at the back. I could feel it, it was— it felt like it'd been worked out, and I could not for the life of me work it out. But then I realised that the last time I went to the dentist, which was like a week ago, said to me that I've been grinding my teeth. And I, I kind of just thought it was an upsell to give me a mouthguard to wear to bed because it was about $350. But then I, then I I was thinking about it, my jaw feels like it's tired. And I think the pain is from me grinding my teeth at night. That's bad, yeah.

Josh: Grinding is like, grinding teeth is the grossest thing. Like if you've ever woken up, like, there's been once where like I've woken up and Bree was grinding her teeth. It's just like, it's such a full-on, something very primal about it, isn't it? It was like a skeleton, like just like laying in bed, just fucking crunching its teeth together.

Tommy: Well, it's like, it can be clenching. So you're just squeezing and the result is sort of that wearing away. Bodhi does it. He doesn't have, he doesn't gauge the annoyance of what he's doing, but he's in the car just like fully getting his teeth together.

Josh: Like, krrr, krrr, krrr. He can actually make noise.

Tommy: He can, yeah. But I think he's just, curious by the noise that comes from his mouth when he does it. 'Cause the sweetheart isn't meaning to be annoying, be a little pest. Yeah, yet. Actually, I take that back. The one thing he did this morning, we're about to walk out the fucking house and he opens the fridge, the fridge was open, I was chucking stuff in there and I looked away for one second and the little son of a gun grabbed the only thing that I didn't want him to in the whole entire fridge and that was an egg. And threw it onto the ground.

Josh: What an asshole.

Tommy: I know, it's what I thought. And he's just, he just knew. I reckon he just knew in his heart that if I get this to the ground, it will crack.

Josh: That's upsetting. Yeah, I think, I wonder if I was an extra annoying, I feel like I was an extra annoying kid, but I wonder if that came later or whether, Even we'll have to ask my mum, even at the age of, you know, 2 or 3, whether I was doing really annoying shit like I do now.

Tommy: You've been annoying since day dot, mate, so nothing's changed. I did send you that message from mum who's been listening, and she said, was listening to episode 170 today, and you won't believe it, but we got the same scam email that Josh got. They quoted an old password and all. And I wrote back, "Dad's been wanking again, hasn't he?" Did you—

Josh: You sent me that. Did your mum write back to that message?

Tommy: She said, "Tommy, that's not very nice. We have a webcam." Oh, because I said, "You don't even have a webcam." What'd she say? That's the funny thing. She said, "We have a webcam, but not sure if it works." Anyway, nothing happened.

Josh: I wonder if that— Do you think that your mum and dad actually were worried about it? Do you think they're calling their lawyer to work out what to do? Full crisis mode at the Jacket household.

Tommy: Dad's got the sweats.

Josh: Absolutely.

Tommy: No, just to recap, Josh got an email basically saying that, um, we've got your password, um, you— we've caught you wanking on camera.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, and we've recorded it.

Josh: And, uh, we've got a screen recording of your screen as well as footage of you.

Tommy: Oh yeah, yeah. And, um, it's, it's a, it's a good hack because they somehow get your password.

Josh: Yeah, they get the way they're getting their part— the password is because there's databases now with all the different, you know, there's been big hacks like Adobe, like I mentioned, where, um, yes, hackers get in and they basically get your email address and your password, and then that's then on a big database. And then hackers can see, okay, josh@joshjansen, if I type in, they can see the password's 1990, and then they can go on to get a bot and basically go to all of the different websites online and, yeah, try that password and see if I hadn't changed it on something.

Tommy: The latest scam I saw was Charlie Goldsmith, who I've spoken about. He is a Melbourne dude who is also known as The Healer. He's got a TV show and he's an energy healer doing some pretty amazing stuff. And he deals with a lot of people who are in pain and, you know, I guess desperate. So it makes sense that someone would try and take advantage of his name and his connection to all these people who are desperate, because they'd probably do anything to get time with him to see if he could heal them. Whether you think it's bullshit or not, um, is not relevant for this story, but he just put this Facebook, uh, Insta storey out saying, please report this fake profile, they use it to scam money out of people. And I looked at the username that they fully— like, they fully mirrored his profile, same photos, photos of his little baby girl.

Josh: Um, that's gross.

Tommy: Yeah, horrible handles, like identical. And they've only got like, yeah, they've got 108 posts. So, they've gone through and taken a— they've mirrored his account. That's gross. Anyway, his username for his personal account is Charlie Goldsmith, and they've used Charlie with a C-H-A-R-L-E. So, they're getting people who are gonna, you know, accidentally write Charlie instead of I-E.

Josh: And so, people are thinking that like, oh, Charlie Goldsmith's just asking for $500 cash and and he'll come to my place. Is that what's going on?

Tommy: That's what— no, that's what happens with these, you know, healer types, or, you know, psychics, or I don't know. There's a bunch of sort of people in this space that I've seen before, people taking advantage and trying to set up an account where you kind of could stumble to that one. And then, I mean, man, I couldn't imagine what it'd be like living just non-stop pain 24 hours a day. You'd pay whatever price it is. Like if you could legitimately have your back fixed, you'd pay whatever price. So, I could imagine that's what people are doing and then just sending cash.

Josh: It's not ideal.

Tommy: It's full on.

Josh: I do wonder about the digital profiles and stuff like that. What sort of extra cheques are going to be put in place to make sure that, you know, if we're signing up to something that's legit, Now on Airbnb, when I was booking accommodation in real time, they needed my passport or other ID, and they basically in real time cheque it. So, they're like, please wait, you can't confirm the— And then obviously someone at Airbnb looks at the ID before accepting it.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. It's such early days. This is— this blew my mind. A friend of mine, I needed to view a site that had like a payment wall, and it was for a subscription to a newspaper. And it was just annoying because it was like, you know how some of those sites, they like show you some articles from the newspaper, but then others you need to sign up and subscribe to actually get access to that content. And so It's the Herald Sun in Melbourne, which are desperate for money.

Josh: Herald Sun don't give you anything, do they? I feel like every article I've ever clicked on online through Twitter or something like that, I've never been able to actually access if it's the Herald Sun.

Tommy: Yeah, maybe I just only remember going there as they were sort of phasing into it. Now I've— like, it just pisses me off. I close the browser straight away and I think, fuckers. And I try and find the news somewhere else. But I couldn't find this specific piece of news that I wanted to find, which is about 7-Eleven, which I'll get to soon, Josh. Um, but what I did was I said to my friend, uh, mate, do you know how you could access this? No, what I said was, can you try and find if this is somewhere else?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: He said, no worries, I'll download a plugin and it'll get me past the payment wall. Did you know this is legit? Like, um, uh, what is it, Firefox? Really? You know how Chrome have plugins that you can, you know, add on to help you download videos that are in Flash players and shit like that. Um, he downloaded this plugin that just took you past the payment wall.

Josh: Interesting.

Tommy: On the Herald Sun website.

Josh: Well, a lot of people are using ad blockers now, and I like, I've never really bothered because I sort of want to see how my data is being used. I want to say like, okay, if I visit this site, this appears here. I feel like given what our jobs are it like we want to have that advertising experience, seeing what, you know, people are advertising to us. Yeah, but no, I didn't know that you could, um, you know, uh, use a plugin. Do you know what it's actually doing? Is it like creating like a VPN, or is it like— what's it— what's the actual process?

Tommy: Yeah, I have no idea, and nor does he. I think it's just, hang on, if you, if you actually install this— it's free, everyone— Because I said, is that— I said, is it illegal?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Which, I mean, I don't know if you— where are the terms and conditions? What are the— what's the thing? And, and if you can get it through the Mozilla App Store, then they haven't barred it. And then what he did find was that it was banned through the Google Chrome Store.

Josh: Interesting.

Tommy: Um, or they, they'd removed it. So, um, Firefox— Mozilla Firefox haven't removed this specific plugin. But then it's like, where did— it's bizarre world.

Josh: Like, these people use any other plugins?

Tommy: Yeah, I've got ad blocker on Google Chrome because, um, camping.

Josh: So what does it actually do? What does it look like? Um, this is one area that I've just never bothered to sort of enter into from the tech world. What does an ad blocker actually look like?

Tommy: Well, I don't know. I think you just— I don't think you're meant to feel that You're not meant to feel it, you're meant to just browse it.

Josh: But what I can look—

Tommy: Yeah, I'm sure.

Josh: Does it remove— like, what I wonder is it just, um, taking banner ads and, um—

Tommy: Well, I'm less angry, Josh, so it probably is. Like, I don't get a great deal of banner ads at all. I get maybe like the pop-up subscription stuff on websites, but, um, yeah, I don't actually get— yeah, I'm— I guess it's working. It says that it's blocked 180,000 ads in total. Since I've had it. That's a fact.

Josh: I think that the reason that I maybe turned off ad blockers, because I remember my old— when I had a different media company when I was like 18, Mediaflex, I remember I had this big—

Tommy: Yeah, don't be shy to give it a plug.

Josh: Bloody Mediaflex. I had a big section with sort of headlines, so it was like, you know, we do media or some bullshit, whatever it was. But anyway, that heading was like a big PNG, a big image. And I remember getting emails from people saying, hey, just so you know, it's been picked up by the ad blocker. And I think ever since then I'm like, I don't like the idea of the user experience or the UI being changed by a different sort of, um, you know, plugin.

Tommy: Yeah, interesting. The other one I've got is, um Click to download. So it's like you can download videos from like Flash players and stuff, stuff that you can't just drop the link into some website that will download it for you. But also lets you— it's interesting, in Facebook, when I go on next to any video that's in Facebook, there's like— it gives you this little arrow key at the bottom left of someone's post. And what can you literally just press that? I press that and it downloads the video that's on.

Josh: Is it like a flash? What sort of file format does it give it to you in?

Tommy: Um, this one I just did this on some bloke. It says, when you finally get to vacation, got to download that. Some bullshit business. MP4, HD MP4. This, I mean, it's compressed through Facebook, but Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: You know how—

Tommy: So, the reason we got— Hang on. Sorry, go on.

Josh: I was just going to say the talking about the passport stuff reminded me my friend is doing an internship at a hotel in Barcelona, and she was saying, you know how they, when you go to a hotel, they collect your passport information? You know, like when you get there, they ask for your passports. For both guests most times.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Do you know what they actually do with that information?

Tommy: No clue.

Josh: I've never even thought. So, like, I just assumed they were doing it just to, you know, double cheque identity or whatever. But what she was saying is, because she was talking about the difference between working on the evening shift and working during the day, and what she was saying is the evening shift, one of your jobs is you've got to go to the police station with all of the passport details and and they run cheques on all of the, um, guests at the hotel. Wow. I had no idea that this was happening.

Tommy: I wonder if that's in Australia. I couldn't imagine the Crown Casino. I'm sure they've got access to—

Josh: There should be— There would be some sort of automated system, you'd think, right? Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, they're plotting, you know, um, just pottering down the street with a folder full of scanned documents.

Josh: They're saying that they can't even, like, legally they weren't able to scan or something. So, they have to— the only time they ever scan is if they've got heaps of people and they just do it out of speed, but then they go through and enter it into a system. But I found it interesting that that was like, there's something real creepy with the idea of being asleep in your hotel while someone's at a cop shop looking you up, making sure that you're um, all good.

Tommy: It has the poor copper that has to enter all that shit. Like, half the time they're probably not getting anyone.

Josh: I was saying, like, uh, she's having to learn things about picking up signs of human trafficking, stuff like that. So, oh, it's like full-on, like, working out, um, yeah, all these, um, yeah, all these rules around stuff that you just never thought of. Like, one of the things she was saying is When you're at a hotel, they won't actually, the good hotels, they won't actually tell you what your room number is. Have you noticed that? Think about what they do.

Tommy: They give you the card.

Josh: What do they say?

Tommy: They print it onto the card.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And then they hand you the card and say, have a nice day.

Josh: And so, what they say is they normally say, this is your room number and they point to the number. You don't say, "Your room 602." What they might say is, "You're on floor 6," but they'll never, or they're not meant to say your room number for privacy.

Tommy: Oh, for people around you.

Josh: Ah. So, there's all these little tricks I'd never even thought of. And I was asking her also, I was like, "What are some of the weird shit that people do?" And she was saying, and she's only been in the job for a month, but she was saying that—

Tommy: Has she got an accent?

Josh: Yeah, she's from Venezuela and she's been learning words. We've been teaching her words and stuff, like, because she said she's had— She was on the phones over in the last sort of few weeks and she just gets requests for all these different types of things and she has no no idea what they're saying. She was saying that one, an Indian man got really angry at her because he's saying he wanted mayonnaise, mayonnaise, and he wanted mayonnaise, and she couldn't understand. But yeah, there's just so many things like Band-Aid, and it's so funny now because she's got an Australian accent when she says Band-Aid. So I was like, okay, say it back, and she's like, Band-Aid. Which is great.

Tommy: But, um, oh, you got to adapt. Yeah, you gotta—

Josh: But it's so amazing how quickly she just like learns words. She's like, yeah, but just things like shower cap, um, uh, you know, like for— I'm trying to remember, there was a really good one that she, um, she couldn't work out what they were trying to say, but she was saying that like over the phone, when you're doing it over the phone, it's like next level. Difficult. Um, like I was teaching her like crispy bacon, like, do you know what crispy bacon is? You know, someone orders crispy bacon, what does it mean? So, um, I feel like she's gonna be really set now if anyone orders, uh, crispy bacon on the side. Um, yeah.

Tommy: And, and you're in Spain at the moment, you're in Barcelona. Um, any— I know that when I was there, I felt It's probably— I felt a little bit unsafe in some areas. I mean, I was— to be fair, I was staying like, um, on the other side of the red light district, so I had to legit walk past just some pretty sinister looking characters. Um, and I got pickpocketed there, 20 bucks, didn't even feel it.

Josh: Hashtag didn't even feel it. Well, how about this? Didn't feel it on our, um, on our train trip. Back from the airport to our friend's place. We were staying in an area called Terrassa, which is just outside of Barcelona, and we were on the train, and my friend Ibrahim got really annoyed all of a sudden, and it was because a girl was trying to pickpocket his— in his back pocket, tried to take his wallet, and he felt it and grabbed it, and It was interesting because then you would— He was pointing at her and saying, you know, she was the one type of thing. Like, interestingly, he said later on that he didn't want to make a big scene because we were there. But he pointed her out and said, yeah, she was the one pickpocketing. And he was saying it was very common, like a lot of Romanians come to Barcelona and do it. But, um, the— you actually— it was interesting watching her because she was still continuing to try and pickpocket while we were watching him. Still trying to get him.

Tommy: Come on, mate, just let me play. She was like, please, you look that way, I'll just quickly move down the carriage.

Josh: And, um, it was— yeah, the big telltale sign from— for her anyway was her eye movement because she's just constantly looking at bags, looking at pockets. And, um, yeah, so he— Yeah, Ibi wasn't happy. But when we got off the train, they were— They got off the train and then just went to jump on another train to do it all over again.

Tommy: Yeah, it's their job. It's— It's— You feel the desperation from that person. Like, you think about what you think about on a daily basis. It's some— It's pretty, you know, reserved. It's like, you know, basic thoughts about, you know, life that involve— they're probably good feelings and good thoughts.

Josh: Imagine that you—

Tommy: I'm about to do this thing. Like, there's an energy that you put out there. It's like if you deal weed or, you know, a sort of low, you know, a drug that's not, um, crazy dangerous, and you think it's super cool. Nah, it's fine. Like, I don't care if you do it, you're listening, you actually deal weed. But I, I know that there's an energy that comes.

Josh: You didn't feel good when you were doing it?

Tommy: Nah, you feel, you feel a little bit— there is a sense of you doing something negative, and you can justify it to yourself. But I think it's like, you know, if you lie and no one else knows, you still know you've lied, and that's, that's putting out an energy to the world.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And, um, that's why I sort of I, I feel for these people that are in this world of pain, and that is when they're living this life of desperation. It's, um, it's sad. I felt that, but I felt that a lot in you.

Josh: If they've got a, um, a certain sort of ethics, um, you know, sort of personal standard, they might not feel it as well. I don't think— like, that was one of the things Ibrahim was saying. It's like the, um, he When he first moved to Barcelona, he caught a guy in his sort of complex stealing stuff. And he went, as he saw it happening, he quickly went to like the front desk and sort of said, hey, there's a guy in this room. Like, does he, you know, do we have anyone new? And he's like, no. Anyway, Ibi sees the guy jump over the fence and run away, and Ibi saw him a few days later at a supermarket. Yeah. And the guy was drunk and Ibi was sort of saying, he was like— He pickpocketed him. He was— He said, it was like, "Not only are you a drunk, but you're also a thief." And then it sounded very poetic because the drunk guy responded, "Yes, you are right. I am a drunk, but I am no thief," which sounds like some sort of Shakespeare.

Tommy: Yeah, but the translation in Australia was like, 'Oi, cunt, you're the fucking idiot who's robbed my shit.

Josh: Nah, get fucked, idiot.' But when you say it in Spanish, it's, uh, yeah, it does sound a little bit, uh, a little bit sexier.

Tommy: Yeah. No, I think you can definitely be in that world and be shutting those feelings aside, but I think it's, it's on a different level. It's on an energy level. So you like you're putting off a vibration. If you want to get a bit, you know, a bit—

Josh: Charlie Goldsmith on you.

Tommy: Yeah, but I, I think there's energy. I think there's— you're putting it off. You— when you're doing things, and, and I think if you're doing naughty shit or even stuff that you don't identify as naughty, it's—

Josh: I think in general, I think that it's, um, it's amazing how much we, um— what I'm trying, like, definitely on this trip trying to get better at is, um realising, you know, the— not destructive, that's probably too strong a word, but just like the negative side effect of trying to make everything a storey or thinking about it in a storey or trying to deconstruct that person's intentions. When we were in the Netherlands, when we arrived, basically before we arrived, I got a We booked through Booking.com and we, like, you know, we've used Booking.com over like 50 times. We, you know, we have our credit card on there and if, say, if it's a non-refundable hotel stay, they'll just charge the card, whatever. It was all fine. Anyway, this Dutch hotel, I booked it, it was like 5 days before we were going to be there. And, uh, I booked the hotel, and then I got a separate email a few hours later from the hotel saying that to secure the hotel, you needed to make full payment through this link through their email.

Tommy: Sounds dodgy.

Josh: My thought— yeah, well, my thought was, I was like, look, we have Booking.com, they have a payment system. You can either charge through that or you can just charge us when we get there. Anyway, so, I just let it go and it said something like, yeah, if it's not paid by Monday at this time, like it's not reserved. I'm just like, fuck that. Like this hasn't even come on through the Booking.com app. Like really, that's the thing that we need to be judging. It's like what details have we got from them, like through the communication, you know, system.

Tommy: Are you sure it wasn't Dick Smith messaging you?

Josh: It did have that vibe. So I ended up, um, I ended up not paying, mainly just because I was, um, couldn't be fucked. And so we arrived though at 9:30 PM, and the lady, uh, you know, I give my passport and credit card and she looks and she says, um, Uh, this is non-refundable. I was like, yes. And she's like, uh, but you did not pay in time. And they were gonna not give us the fucking room. I was just like, the other thing too is they had put an amount already on the credit card for a couple of bucks, like checking to make sure that the credit card was valid. So I was like, what's the point in using a system like Booking.com if then you have to go through some weird unsecure system to be able to pay.

Tommy: Do you think they're actually going outside of the Booking.com's terms and conditions? Like they're— they've taken it one extra step?

Josh: I don't know. I reckon that they probably can get away with it because of, like, sort of anti-competitive rules. Like, I'm sure, like, they're probably allowed to do it. But, um, what it got me thinking about was you can get so uptight about shit, or you can sort of be like, fuck that person, or sort of thinking about like, oh, they're trying to fuck with us or rip us off. Or I'm just like, I'm trying to, um, give people the benefit of the doubt and just be like, you know, the reality is like maybe she has to pay an extra 5% doing it in person than doing it on this method. And so her pushback was because she was thinking, I've just lost, you know, $100. Yeah, um, she's understandable, trying to default, trying to default to that rather than this person's trying to fuck me.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. I've met people who have a firm belief, and this one guy, he's just said to me, I just have felt like my whole life people have been trying to fuck me. And, um, yeah, he, you know, I could see what it did to him. I could see the way he approached, you know, opportunities and other people. And I think it even shifted his behaviour in, in terms of how he treated people, um, you know, around the same thing. So he, he fucked over a few people I'm sure it was driven by this, this thinking of, I want to fuck him over before he gets me, or it's, you know, I better act first, or it's, um, it's desperate.

Josh: It's not a good way to live, I think. And I also think that when you think that way, you project that. And I think that you're actually— you don't build the empathy or trust to actually have sort of meaningful interactions with people.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, it's energy. You're projecting energy if you're not saying something. Um, I mean, it's, you know, people feel it in their guts. Do you think you're a guy that— do you have gut feelings on things? Do you ever use that terminology? I don't think I've heard you other than I need to shit myself.

Josh: Exactly. No, I think, I think, um, no, probably not at like the, um that level. I think that probably mine is like a lot more internal and a lot deeper, which I think can be just as destructive, which is the sort of overthinking or sort of trying to analyse and trying to— I think sometimes we can give ourselves, I know I can give myself too much credit of sort of sussing out a situation or saying, oh, you know what, this person was trying to do this, or I see what's happening here, and, um, I think that that's probably destructive because it sort of leads to, you know, drawing conclusions that aren't necessarily there. And, um, also feeling negative about people too, right? Which is, um, I think where probably I see it the most is people who, for whatever reason There's something in me that when I see someone change or sort of, say if someone has said one thing and then, or like patterns, right? Like if I see someone who, for instance, I've got one mate who talks about, you know, I remember a few years ago he went on a trip and he came back and he sort of goes high and low with energy, right? And he was sort of on this massive high, and he's like, basically he had this enlightenment, so this huge experience. He's sort of saying, you can't explain it, but I just feel connected to everything and all that sort of thing. And then I saw that shift over time to going back to being materialistic and all that sort of thing. And then it's been interesting, my internal monologue where I've seen him go through a similar experience and I want to meet it with empathy. But there's a part of me too, and this is like the part that I'm fighting, which is the massive eye rolling, which is like, I've seen all of this before and it's just, this is going to end.

Tommy: Yeah. You're looking for incongruencies in people. I've done it when I've been dating in the past. I find like I have a good memory in conversation. I know you do too. Like I can see you sort of ticking away when I talk to you about stuff. And when I observe you speaking with people, because I do the same, and it's like, you know, you're almost looking what they're saying and then you're registering it and putting in the bank, and then they say something else. And I did it when I was, um, dating, and I remember a girl that specifically I just was like, oh, you're just a bit off with what you're saying and what, and what you've said in the past. And it, and I was just like so put off. Um, yeah, but then there is the thought of, uh, they're not—

Josh: like, how can people change? How can people rebrand if we as friends and family members don't give them that opportunity?

Tommy: Yeah, I think there is a transition point, and if it's not Maybe, yeah, there's this side of being too critical on little things that don't equate to actual sort of anything really that matters. And then there's, you know, like, I mean, if you're lying, you're saying that you're doing one thing, but yeah, I've, I've, yeah, I find myself doing that. It's probably something that should be a bit kinder on.

Josh: Well, it's just you see patterns. I think that, um, but I think that probably the other thing too is me looking back at myself and being like, man, I can't believe I was like this, or I did that. I feel like, okay, I need to be able to give myself empathy for that and also give empathy to other people. Just being like, you know what, like, why is that person feeling the need to communicate this higher being and that they're sort of, you know, that they found this? It's like, okay, well, like, they're missing something or they're trying to find their way. Um, it's— and there's like, I can relate to that. There's that desire to dream big and have big dream, like big dreams. I think that maybe it's even, um, I think another quality that I sort of struggle with is the, um, people dreaming really big or saying, you know, big sort of goals, but it feels like they don't have the basics sorted.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So it's like saying, yeah, I'm going to do this massive thing. Like, yeah, I've like taking a generic example, I'm going to make a film for Netflix or whatever. It's like, oh, well, you still probably like, you haven't made a film yet.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so I don't know, but I think that's—

Tommy: Mate, I told you, I'm still, I'm going to make it. I did say that a few years ago, but we'll get there and I'll probably get you to make it for me.

Josh: Yeah, I think that the other thing too is like, is social media, Instagram and stuff, I think doesn't lend itself well to, um, to these sorts of thoughts because literally like it's almost like, um, it's a— it has that same sort of feeling as watching a TV show, is it's like you're trying to connect the dots before they even happen.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And then we create these assumptions around people, and then as soon as they do that thing, we're like, yeah, of course. They're doing the exact thing that I thought that they were going to do, so I must be right, which I think is like a really, um, which I just don't actually think is right.

Tommy: I think there's safety in that for people that to know or to be right on how someone's going to behave. Um, yeah, yeah, because it's unknown.

Josh: It's that projecting as well, right? Yeah, like it's, it's, it's that constant, um Oh yeah, of course they're going to do that. But yeah, I think that from the opposite side, it's like, at what point do you, um, just, uh, allow that to be the case versus giving people chances or trying to, um, trying to fix people? I think that's another thing, which is like, uh, um, oh, this person, like, they just need to know X, Y, and Z, or they just need to do X, Y, and Z, and I think that they would understand. Versus we all think differently and that's okay.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, it's good.

Josh: Yeah, it's interesting. A bit fucking, uh, bit deep for the, for the final 3 minutes of the show.

Tommy: Well, if you laughed at this, this far, uh, thanks for being with us.

Josh: It's a daily talk show. We'll see you, uh, tomorrow. I'm about to, uh, I think enter a storm. There's thunder and lightning here in Barcelona.

Tommy: Yes, it's a bit shit here too.

Josh: Yeah, bit of weather chat. It's been a while. Early episodes, we used to do it every single day. Tommy quickly, uh, finished that up.

Tommy: No, it sounded like a terrorist attack earlier before we started recording this.

Josh: Yeah, it was fucking crazy.

Tommy: So loud. And I'm picturing it being some tropical, like, war— like, really warm where you are, and it just thunderstormed. I love it.

Josh: Anyway, it's got that vibe. Catch you guys.