Tommy's ex co-host & ThinkerGirl Stacey June

Tommy: Wait a minute! Crossface! The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 153. Tommy Jackett and Stacey June, what's going on?

Tommy: It's, uh, the band's back together.

Stacey: Semi.

Tommy: Plus the, um, the tech guy, the annoying roadie, the remote anchor. Oh, this is nice. So, um, this is— this wasn't planned. I mean, how did this even happen?

Josh: Because it was planned.

Stacey: Well, it wasn't planned with you.

Tommy: It wasn't planned with me. I just messaged Stacy, said, are you coming into the studio today? Yeah, I'll be there at 3:30. Is that still cool? All right.

Stacey: Well, Josh and I are quite, we're in fairly regular communication on the Gram, aren't we?

Josh: Yeah, that's where all my hours go. I just randomly DMing people. I'm that dude who will just, it doesn't matter who you are, I'll just fucking DM you and respond back to your stories. That's where all my time goes.

Stacey: That's pretty quickly offended me 'cause that's just meant that the conversations we were having weren't of any meaning to you whatsoever.

Josh: No, no, I'm happy to. I see every storey that I see as an opportunity to have a conversation. So it's not like I'm not voyeuristic in that regard. In on the actual posts, I am, but I feel like when I'm viewing someone's stories, it feels like I'm sort of entering into their world. So I feel more comfortable just to comment and have a discussion.

Tommy: Well, I find out— I did get a, um, a response to one of my storeys from Stacy. So I felt like she was trying to communicate to me in some way, sending out a bit of a beacon.

Stacey: What did I say?

Tommy: I can't remember. It was like laugh, you laugh.

Josh: Just a cry face.

Tommy: She said you love a line and that can be taken out of context.

Stacey: Well, depends what era, I guess. But the dad era, not so much. But what line? Oh yeah, you're obsessed with storying people lining up for things and you've done it for years. Are you gonna give your new listeners any context as to why we know each other?

Tommy: Correct, because we have actually been pulled up about this.

Josh: Yeah, we literally got an email about it. Apparently we don't.

Stacey: I think the whole thing with podcasting, which I love—

Josh: Sorry. Is that, yeah, no, I like it. We like air cheques live. That's how we like to do them.

Tommy: Yeah, we're real sickos, the worst they are, the better we love them.

Stacey: I was gonna say, this is some weird radio girl still trying to get her podcast up. Yeah, she's the person to air cheque everybody.

Josh: No, but you know, it's a good point. I mean, the thing is that with, podcasting, we see it as an opportunity just to like not give context to everything. And just like our idea is that if people want to know shit, they have to listen to every single episode to actually understand. So if they listen to maybe, you know, episode 30, they may have heard a mention of you, or in when Tommy was in Shepparton, we did a live show from Shepparton. But basically, yeah, Tommy, do the Stacey, do the official radio style.

Stacey: It's a new age. Podcast hook. Like it's literally keep people guessing.

Tommy: It's more the kids that do shit to spite their parents and the parents were the radio executives or people that told us what to do. So we just stick it up there.

Stacey: I'm liking this show already.

Tommy: But I wanna, I will introduce Stace. So we, Stacey and I had a radio show together in Shepparton and we talked a lot about what the time was like in Shepparton on episode 50 when we did it live from the Deck, which was a bar that wasn't there when we were there together.

Stacey: Is it nice? Would we have gone there? Definitely. Decent coffee? Yeah, it's top-notch. And now they've got boutique beers. Is that what's going on there, right?

Tommy: Yeah, there's booth service there, so you can buy a bottle. It's, yeah, they do it really well. So did you ever meet B-Mac?

Stacey: Yes.

Tommy: Yes, so B-Mac, yes, you know B-Mac.

Stacey: And also at your wedding.

Tommy: Yeah, he was at my wedding.

Stacey: He's a very big networker, isn't he? 'Cause he connected to me on Facebook after the wedding, which I don't think I took him up on that, but kudos to him. Nice guy, nice guy.

Tommy: So we worked together for about a year in Shepparton, was it?

Stacey: Yeah, it was. And I remember actually thinking, I will get out of here in exactly a year. And I think I resigned almost a year to the day.

Tommy: So if we were to break up the percentage of work effort between the radio show that Stacy and I had and her, what she's gone on to have success in, The Thinker Girls, it was probably 90% Thinker Girls 10% our show, even though we had a full-time show to run, which was 5 days a week, 3 hours a day. So, um, I mean, you got out of it what you needed, which was a job and a segue into potentially doing your own thing, and it worked for you. So, uh, no, you can't be lazy. Definitely for our show, not for your own.

Josh: Yeah, focused.

Stacey: Yeah, I guess it's interesting because at that time, and I loved our show, like I had a good time doing it, but I suppose I was very ambitious and strategic in that I just knew there was, I loved our chemistry, but there was nothing unique about another guy and a girl coming up, you know? So I knew that there was something different about Mers and I, or Christie and I. And so I think it was like, where are you gonna put your eggs in at that point? So yeah, for sure I was focused on that. But it is probably, it is quite naughty. But at the same time, we were both with that network. So we were also kind of subtly encouraged in a way, like we were able to get away with a lot because I think they may have thought they may have ended up giving us the show. In the end, it was another network.

Tommy: Well, the reality is you get put with people that weren't your friends before, and you're meant to become friends. And out of the two that I got, you're the good egg.

Stacey: Yeah, thank you. It was the lazy shit, but I made it more fun, and I told everyone to stick it. You guys were just actual teacher's pets. And then I got there and I was like, no, no, get effed. No, no, I'm leaving at 12. No, And that allowed you to start doing your stuff too.

Tommy: And don't ever, I don't care what you say, Stacey's not a princess. The way you just delivered that.

Stacey: Oh yeah, okay. Are you being sarcastic?

Tommy: I'm being sarcastic.

Stacey: Oh, so I am a princess, you think? No, you're not.

Tommy: No, no, no.

Josh: There was just— No, you're not, listen, I know what you're, you're not being sarcastic.

Tommy: The way you said it.

Josh: With the way that, yeah, the way that some people can be like, can paint the industry. It's this idea of, pain in the ass talent who will do the bare minimum and stuff like that. But I think that where you're coming from, it makes complete, you're literally using, it's probably not a bad way to finance a podcast, you know, just like go out and like, I reckon that's probably a better strategy than actually doing a regional show in itself.

Tommy: Oh, 100%.

Josh: Doing a podcast and making a bit of coin.

Stacey: I was, yeah, yeah, yeah. And upskilling. I was very aware of what I was getting from it and very aware of what I was able to deliver on it. I think probably off air, but I still feel like, and I might sound arrogant, but I still feel like I delivered some of, like, as good as anybody else in terms of an on air thing, and that was what I was paid to do. And then it was often the station around us just didn't invest in the show either. So it's very easy to, I mean, would you agree with that? Like, you're kinda treated pretty roughly out there. They should give you a budget to go and have fun after the show. Or just a budget to do anything. Yeah, you too. I mean, like, you know, like to actually, 'cause we actually build content. So you kind of, you know, and you're right, it does sound a bit deavory, but I also thought, well, I'm gonna put in as much as you're gonna invest.

Tommy: Well, the way you said it was leaving at 12, it does sound it, but it was exactly what we should have been doing and I wasn't doing it.

Stacey: Granted, we got there at 5, you know, so it's not a going home at lunch situation.

Tommy: So that's how Stacey and I know each other. We kind of knew each other before, Mutual friends and stuff. Mutual friends, and then we got thrown together. And what else do we need? How else do you do a radio intro?

Josh: I'm liking the banter already. I'm liking the slight pushback that Stace gives to you, TJ. He didn't know what hit him. I even felt it. I remember even working on a national show as a digital content producer and having to buy my own GoPros. I remember I'd bought it digital camera probably a month before I started at the radio station. And when I started at the radio station, I said, ah, can we get some GoPros? Because I need to be able to— I want to do more than a one camera.

Stacey: You want to do—

Josh: yeah, fucking—

Stacey: you want to do your job. You want to do your job.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I literally ended up returning my camera that I bought personally and bought 4 new GoPros. And then I had to beg to be able to go to London for the Olympics to do digital content. 'Cause I'm like, I just don't think I can do much from Melbourne. And so, and the whole thing was me using the GoPros. And so I think that maybe that's changed. Maybe culturally they're now double downing on that sort of stuff. Do you get that vibe?

Stacey: Well, digital became a thing, right? I mean, before I was on air, I was doing your job, Josh, not the national part, but I was on a national show up against Hamish Nandy was a show called Raimondi and Wippa. And I was their online producer. So I was doing what a lot of digital producers do now, but very different because the expectation, you didn't have to know how to edit. If you could take a photo and figure out some form of, well, there was no filters then, but if you could form, you could maybe press, like there was like light, medium, dark or something. There was like different versions of filters. You didn't have to do as much, but digital was becoming, I don't know, they were looking at it as a priority, but very much like podcasting now or things that are up and coming, they know that it's important, but they're not yet ready to invest the money. So you're kind of doing this dance in between. I think it is different now.

Josh: It was the Christian Hull era in some regards. Christian Hull talked about the fact that he knew fuck all about this stuff and just learned. I think that I was probably, in a slightly different position where we had Jules Lund, who's pedantic and into video and was working on Getaway. And so we— I had my job interview with him, and so the number one skill was video and all that sort of thing. And now, um, you wouldn't be able to get a digital job within radio.

Stacey: I think—

Josh: work your camera.

Stacey: I do think radio have pulled back from the video focus though. I know when we were hired I had a show, it's called The Thinker Girls, and it did end up, the podcast did end up getting on a radio station, and we were very much hired to offer a video component. Contractually, we had to give a sketch video or a Thinker Girls video once a week. That's how video-focused radio was a few years ago. I think now, so they've realized, not necessarily don't do it, but stay in your lane a bit, because I think they over— overtried and it ended up affecting the focus, I think. And I certainly saw it affect the focus in our show. We were doing everything too much.

Tommy: I wanna just sort of, we can move away from the Shepparton stuff, but there is something, and I don't know if you remember me talking about this to you at all, Josh.

Stacey: Oh no.

Tommy: The time that we got almost a stalker charge put on us.

Stacey: Well, no, what's the official thing called? What is it?

Tommy: No, stalking. It's, I mean, when you—

Stacey: Where do they say then you can't, when you can't come and meet someone, you have to stay away from them.

Josh: Oh yeah.

Tommy: Intervention order? No.

Josh: Why can't we do intervention orders?

Tommy: RVO?

Stacey: What is it?

Tommy: Like a restraining order?

Stacey: Restraining order. We almost got a restraining order.

Josh: I'm interested in the documents. Did you get any letters?

Stacey: Well, no, we were close though. I was starting to ask for paperwork 'cause I was starting to get that scared. Scared.

Tommy: It was ridiculous. So just to paint the picture, we would leave the show every day at 9 AM, go out the door and go to this coffee place. Do you remember that joint?

Stacey: A tradition that I was very, very keen on starting.

Tommy: It was great.

Stacey: It was good.

Tommy: I just didn't do it with the last person because we weren't really mates.

Stacey: You didn't really get along. Yeah, we loved— I loved that time that we had from 9 till 10 was just our mate time. It was not about the show. It wasn't about the show we just did. It wasn't about the show we're about to do. It was just let's have a coffee and read the paper, have a bit of a chat.

Tommy: And so we walked into this coffee shop that we frequented, and in came—

Stacey: remember, um, what was the guy's name?

Tommy: Um, so we had two—

Stacey: not Chucky. Um, oh yeah, yeah, Chinni. Shout out to Chinni. I love that bloke. He's still following me on Instagram.

Tommy: Oh my God, what a legend.

Stacey: Love Chinni.

Tommy: Made great coffee. And, um, one day we were in there and in came two strapping men in uniform. And one of them—

Stacey: I was very single at that point.

Tommy: Yeah, and one of them caught Stace's eye. I mean, it caught my eye as well. He's a man in uniform.

Stacey: And I do love this about you. Like the greatest gift you can have in a straight man friend is that they are also willing to be confident enough in themselves to say, "Hey, well, that guy's also good looking," which Tommy was always very happy to entertain me.

Tommy: How embarrassing for Stace, she didn't hear the episode where I came out. No, I'm joking.

Josh: Exactly.

Stacey: As we all know, that's no issue either way, whichever way you float, doesn't matter.

Tommy: We decided the next day that we'd create a search for the hot cop in the GV.

Stacey: But let's just also paint the picture. We have a radio show in the Valley. So as much as it was little and regional, it still spread far and wide across Victoria. So a lot of people could hear it. And particularly for those of you that I guess haven't lived in regional cities or live in regional country towns, You know, people listen to their local radio, like they listen to their local show. They don't give a shit what's in Melbourne or Sydney or Brisbane. So we were on air, and whilst it seemed little to us city kids at the time, people really heard what we were doing. Oh yeah, it was a big audience for them.

Tommy: In every shop that you walk into, you hear yourself in the supermarket. It is a cool experience.

Stacey: And I think sometimes we didn't take that very seriously though, which is one of these times I would have thought.

Tommy: It's also because of how early we were getting up and no one really gave a shit what we were saying until they had a problem with what we were saying.

Stacey: Exactly, that's it. It would be when there was an issue, we would find out that they were like, oh shit, I better look back and see what they actually did.

Tommy: Yeah, pull it up in the logger.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Fuck the logger.

Stacey: But we did, we went on air and we said, do you know this cop? We named him. I forget his name and I'm even too scared to say it now because of how much trouble we got in.

Tommy: And so we ended up getting people calling through. I think I've seen him. So like, it actually was working. It gained a bit of momentum.

Stacey: Well, we went off air and built an arc. Arc in radio terms is that you build different shows across the week to build momentum.

Tommy: Yeah, to capture the crowd.

Stacey: And let me just remind everyone and tell you, Josh, our boss was also involved in that build momentum discussion, who was also involved in the one telling us we might get fired. I'm like, hang on a minute, mate, weren't you also here?

Josh: You're not gonna be But you can confirm that the boss won't be on A Current Affair crying, apologising when it all, you know, the shit hits the fan.

Stacey: Love it.

Josh: And Rob will be like, whatever you do, don't mention, don't mention the boss.

Stacey: Yeah. Yeah, well, there mustn't be bosses according to the radio industry.

Tommy: I've still got all of the breaks from that arc because what happened was—

Stacey: Oh, you'll have to put them in here. Sorry to give you more editing.

Tommy: Yeah, no, we don't do that.

Josh: We literally don't fucking edit. There's no way that's happening.

Tommy: So this is sort of fast forwarding in the story. We got called into a meeting and it was like we were being— like I've been interviewed at a police station and it's confronting.

Stacey: Yeah, right.

Tommy: I had never done anything wrong, so, um, yeah, I saw a stabbing, but they thought it was something that I was involved in. Anyway, that feeling of like you're coming down to the cop shop, you're basically arrested. And they put you in a room and they just grill you on it.

Josh: And it felt—

Stacey: Yes, actually I have had my Miranda's read.

Tommy: Oh yes.

Stacey: That's terrifying. So I get where you're going with this.

Tommy: And it felt like that when we walked into this room, 'cause you and I were just happy, like, oh yeah.

Stacey: Yeah, when can we go?

Tommy: I felt the feeling inside of me was like I was a kid again and I was getting in trouble and it was really serious. And you know, you just like, you've gone white because you thought you were doing the right thing and everyone was sort of like, of saying you'd done the right thing, and then all of a sudden you're in heaps of trouble.

Stacey: I remember that feeling. You've just taken me back actually, 'cause I also mostly remember feeling like we weren't protected.

Josh: Yes.

Stacey: Because I really felt, oh my God, we may have potentially hurt this man, or we've done something that scared him. Because essentially over the next few days, more and more people started to ring, and we would, what some people would call ended up being a bit of a witch hunt to find this guy. But we didn't know at the time it was a witch hunt. We thought it was innocent way to set me up with this bloke, joke. Who is this guy? There were footy clubs that are like, yeah, I reckon he plays for that team. Like, it was at training, people talking about it, was at schools. Everyone's like, aren't you related to the guy that Tommy and Stace were talking about? It became this like, where, you know, basically where's Lynette? Like the teacher's pet. Like, it was like, let's find this, this woman's body. It was like, let's find this guy. But honestly, we really did mean for it to be just a let's get him on the show and you would have a joke and say go on a date with Stace, it would never happen, the end, you know?

Tommy: Exactly, and so I had to collate all of the breaks where we talked about anything to do with this song.

Stacey: Oh, see, this is the part where I don't, see, I mustn't have done work.

Tommy: Yeah, I got sent off to do all the work.

Stacey: I don't remember doing that.

Tommy: And I kept all of the audio. So I have a file and it was called Phil Bradley, who was the regional programme director.

Stacey: I wore a suit with cowboy boots. I actually wore cowboy boots.

Tommy: Shout out to Phil.

Josh: It's just not so wild. If you had to go to court and Phil Bradley was there, by the sounds of how you're describing it, you would be fine with the cowboy boots. You'd be protected.

Tommy: Yeah. So he, yeah, so I collated all this information and it all came to a head when the, like, the head constable of the police station called our radio station and said, "You got it, this has to stop." And then so potentially he was gonna file a, yeah.

Stacey: Harassment claim.

Tommy: Harassment claims, et cetera., and it was just this, the wind was taken out of our sails.

Stacey: Yeah, it was awful. We're both pretty sensitive souls though underneath the bravado, I would have thought. And we really didn't think, I'm just looking at you and it's taken me straight back to that moment actually, 'cause I was like, it was very scary. I think in the very early days of like not being on air for very long, you just forget that potentially there is a bit of power behind that, you know?

Tommy: So it was a scary time, but it was funny. And I just wanna fast forward now because I messaged you about this and we haven't spoken about it since. I met, and I can't for the life of me, I was wasted and I met somebody out. This was in Melbourne and it turned out this girl, her brother was the cop that we were looking for.

Stacey: And what did she say?

Tommy: She said he didn't even give a shit. He was like, yeah, it was just a bit embarrassed. His mates were all pulling, like saying, oh, you've, you know.

Stacey: You've just triggered all these emotions in me and now you're telling me that actually it's a good chance doesn't even care.

Tommy: It's why I'm a good broadcaster.

Stacey: You guys are all about the hooks around this joint. You guys are like just lethal for the hooks.

Josh: Yeah, we need all our guests to cry once.

Stacey: I feel like I'm on a roller coaster.

Tommy: So legit, like he didn't give a shit and the girl said it was pretty funny and there was nothing of it. And I told her we got to start a show.

Stacey: Still single or married?

Tommy: Yeah, that's right, you're married. So yeah, it, far out. The joke's on us pretty much.

Stacey: And that just tells you a little bit about that time. It was a real, you know, it just felt like a bit of a power play quite often. So goodness me, I'm, yeah, couldn't, you couldn't pay me enough money to go back to that place where you felt so tired, so impressionable, and so vulnerable, you know? Goodness me. I like running my own show.

Josh: Going back to the, the podcasting stuff. Do you get sort of, so you got Thinker Girls, how long have you been doing that for now? It's been like 6, 7 years?

Stacey: 6, 7 years, 6 and a half years coming up to 7, which is kind of crazy.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Josh had his first podcast when he was 15. But do you get a bit sort of disenfranchised by people when they start talking about podcasting and getting excited and you see new podcasts, especially think about our podcast, like we launched it this year. Is there a frustration that you get or an eye rolling that happens when you see people at that early stage?

Stacey: Not really, no, 'cause I think the more people understand, I've always been a really big advocate for having people just understand what podcasts are, full stop. So then there's this kind of opportunity and freedom for people to listen to what they want. That's where my driver is on that, I think. I like the idea that if potentially people, we could really see the numbers behind who was listening to radio and what they wanted to listen to, the programming and the on-air shows would be very, very different. So I think I like the idea that if you, it's a fair game a bit. If you get on a podcasting, a podcasting hoster and you put something up that people want, you'll see pretty quickly that people want it and you'll do well. And if people don't want it, they won't listen and you won't do so well. And I think that's, that's a good thing. And then if people listening to your podcast, then they at least know what a effing podcast is, and that helps all of us. Because for such a long time—

Josh: Slow burn for you guys.

Stacey: Yeah, and for such a long time, a lot of the messaging has been more about getting people to podcast, and then you have to think about selling your show. So for us, 'cause it's been going on for so long, we would be so excited about selling the show we had, not selling it, but just, you know, bragging and we love the show that we do, and especially our podcast show. But there was such a big amount of time that would happen after you would do one sentence about telling people how to download it, where you can listen to it, how you, you know, and you would end up just being tech support for Aunty Joanne, but not just Aunty Joanne, also for Sarah who's in your uni course, like it's like everyone for a long time. Yeah, no, I think it is awesome because I think that means that the industry is building.

Tommy: I remember a time in Shepparton, sorry, I just can't help but go back. It was some of the greatest years and some of the worst. I remember there was something that went on where you lost all of your episodes. And don't you worry, I heard a lot about this. It became my problem as well.

Stacey: Yeah, well, I needed your help, didn't I? I jumped up.

Tommy: It was full on.

Stacey: Yeah, we were on an FTP site.

Josh: Remember the—

Stacey: old FTP, how you would share files and there'd be like 3 different windows. This is if you've ever done any form of backend tech, but it was old school and you'd have to drag the folders over and one of the folders just randomly disappeared one day which had our archive in it.

Tommy: Can that actually happen, Josh, or did someone break in and delete it?

Josh: Yeah, so FTP is just like a file protocol. So it's just like a, imagine you've got a server which is a computer and FTP is the way that you access the computer and you can drag files and all that sort of thing. So essentially it's the equivalent— The cloud.— Popping up on your desktop. Yeah, sort of, but it's like the equivalent of you going onto your computer and all of a sudden the folder that was there in Finder is no longer there. It's sort of the same thing. Did you end up sorting it?

Stacey: I think we ended up having backend. We literally had one bloke that was the audio, he was in audio production doing, you know, you can come down and get your boots for 50% off on Saturday. He was doing those kinds of ads in Aubrey and he had bit of a side thing that he'd do, I don't know, just a few random little things for us for close to nothing, like good bloke.

Tommy: He seems to file a restraining order on Stace and Christie.

Stacey: Well, it was his F-up.

Tommy: Oh no.

Stacey: So we ended up, I think, backing some of it up. And I think when we changed podcast hosters the beginning of this year, we went over to Acast and they actually encouraged us to put all our oldie episodes up. And we're running an event series at the moment. And last night I spoke to a listener, and she said to me, I've just binged every single episode. And so people have loved the old ones, so I'm glad we put them back up. But yeah, we must have found them because they're all alive.

Tommy: Because you were doing it before, like, the platforms— all those platforms have now been released where it makes it so much easier and safer.

Stacey: It's ridiculous. It's kind of crazy to think we had a mission, you know. I mean, I'm not But I, like I said, I was doing producing roles and those kinds of things, so I've always had a bit of a, I'm open to tech. I'm certainly not the same now 'cause it's so much more advanced. But we had something to say 'cause we were going through the hurdles of having to get all that stuff done in a prehistoric game. And we did it because we really wanted to do the show, you know?

Tommy: So I had the radio show with Stace and then she left. And what did you do? Basically the next gig was your own radio show.

Stacey: I think it's important to also know that I moved into a garage, literally closed the door on radio because they weren't giving us, we couldn't get a show. So it wasn't, it certainly wasn't, yeah, as it was hard and a lot of risk. I moved into, my girlfriend's here with me now actually recording this, and I moved into her garage and was writing odd articles and, putting flights to Sydney on my credit card to try and sell the podcast. And that was what, 4 years ago? People laugh at me. You could barely sell a podcast now. And I'll be like, we've got this great idea, could we get a brand on board? Properly door knocking. And then we started to talk to a bit more telly, and I was kinda like, nah, I'm not gonna beg for a job. I believe in this, I'm not gonna beg radio. And so we closed the door a bit, almost got a telly show with Channel V. Channel V died. And that was, and then this one of the channels chicks that really liked the podcast idea happened to live across the road from one of the bosses at KISS and told him that we were about to negotiate with another network. And he knocked on my door and I started doing a segment on Carl and Jackie O.

Tommy: That's great.

Josh: In hindsight, Stace, do you think the energy that you're putting into trying to get that radio show do you think you would do anything different? Like now that you can look back and people, you know, you see people making the same mistakes or stuff like that, what has been the long-term learning of that journey?

Stacey: It's a good question. It's good that we're chatting today and not 3 months ago, 'cause it seems a little bit clearer now. But you know, the interesting thing is even when we got the show, so we thought we would never get a show with the type of content we did on the podcast. And then we got a show with the boss saying, we want your exact podcast, we want this show to be different, and we want it to just go out with a bang, like we wanna shock people. And we were never there to be shocking, we just liked the content. But if that worked for them, then great. But I do remember saying to Christie at the time, do we actually really want this? You know, we walked away, and yes, the money's there, yes, we wanna move to Sydney, yes, this is a big national show, yes, it's all the glitz and glamour and it looks very shiny,, but we are able to sit back and say, do we actually want it? And I think for some reason, yeah, we did. We were in regional radio and it was a great move for our brand, but when I look back, there was also elements that I think weren't gonna be the best for us. Radio takes up an incredible amount of your time. We had started to pitch really strong television show pitches and we loved our video content. I loved the performing and the acting part of that I didn't really realise that was happening. I was just doing it to do content. And then when it was taken away, particularly this year, I realised I missed that stuff more than I missed the radio because the podcasting was actually the way I like to broadcast. So I think what I learned was, is yeah, you do things for different reasons, but if it was a complete creative decision and not the ego and not the money, I don't know if we would have done it, believe it or not. Maybe there's a way that could have taken you somewhere else. So I don't have regrets, but when I look back, I think the next, if that came through the next time, I would try, I'm in a position where hopefully I can make the decision on a lot of fronts, not on a front where you're like, I need a bit of cash and I need the profile boost.

Tommy: Josh, I got asked last night, at by somebody. She said, would you, do you want a radio show? And I got asked by Gondi this week. He's like, are you guys doing this because you want a radio show? And it's so good to be able to go, not one bit.

Stacey: Isn't it?

Tommy: No way. And I think it's, in terms of the way we had our show in Shepparton, like the format of this is so much better. And now I'll probably get.

Stacey: And you used to get very frustrated by time, I remember. 'Cause you liked layers.

Tommy: Yeah, I like also—

Stacey: You hit your stride when there was layers uncovered. And I was trying to get a radio show and prove to them we could get in 3 minutes 30. But I also liked that hardcore conversation, but I was so ambitious, you know? But I look back now and I think that's why we got along. But at the same time, I wanted that radio show and I think, It's just 'cause you are, that's the next step. You know, like you just kind of follow what the patterns are. But—

Tommy: It's the next logical move. And it's what everyone thinks you need to do.

Stacey: And when you're in the bubble, it's very hard to look outside the box.

Tommy: I said on one of our episodes, it's titled Women in Radio, I think. And I said that I hadn't asked you this question, but I'd like to ask you this question. That's okay.

Stacey: Yeah. The episode's in show notes if you wanna, if you've missed it.

Josh: Yeah, it's definitely not in show notes. We don't do show notes.

Tommy: But, um, just look, I don't have time for show notes. No one's got time for show notes.

Stacey: Go to my Instagram and I'll send you the link just to give you a helping hand.

Tommy: She's hungry for likes.

Josh: DM steaks.

Stacey: No, I'm just trying to help some people out, just get the content to them a bit easier.

Tommy: But it's, um, with the sort of rise of podcasting and Josh— I mean, me jumping on the bandwagon as such, like starting podcast pretty late I said, do you— I said, I wonder if Stace regrets going, moving from this growth in your podcast. I remember you guys were getting like 50,000 a month. This was in podcasting, was a fossil.

Stacey: It's so like— it wasn't a fossil, it was brand new. We had no profile. Yeah, we weren't on any reality show. Like, we were on little towns and breakfast radio shows.

Tommy: And so I was like, I wonder if she regret— they regret sort of moving out, because you did. I don't know what happened to your podcast. You did— it wasn't the same format. You had that 'cause you had a real job to be doing every single day.

Stacey: And it took up a lot of time, and we loved the job, we did. But yeah, it is an interesting question. I don't know if I have the answer yet, but we haven't lost those listeners. So I guess in high, and they're only growing more and more month by month this year as people, people are very, I don't wanna use the word dumb, but you know, we did obviously an article about, we did an article about, you know, how shit went down for us. So we did the radio show and then we got fired last year, if anyone's trying to keep up. But we did an article about, not about that actually, about something else, but it did come up. And people started to message us. This was, I think our last show was in October, and the article went out in April. People are like, "Oh God, I thought you guys were just on holidays." You know, so.

Josh: My favourite banter on your Insta storeys is explaining to people that Spotify's a bit fucked in the feed and to start using, like I saw a comment the other day where it's like, hey, you haven't uploaded since May. Is that just like super frustrating for you?

Stacey: Again, it's just going back to, we wanna be able to, I want you guys to have a show. If people want your show, I want you to be able to make money from doing a show. I want us to be able to make money to do a show. If it means that we're early to the game and we're helping educate the industry, I'm proud of that. So it does frustrate the shit out of me, but I really am. I think it's important that we are able to gain a bit more control over what people are consuming in media. And I don't think that means everybody should do it. Like everyone needs to get paid. Not everybody is putting a quality product, but you're a broadcaster, you've been in the radio industry. There you go, there's experience, you know. And the same with us, we're both broadcasters. And so if that means that Bit helps, we just bite our tongue tell them again that just download a podcast app.

Josh: Do you remember the Skype conversation that we had 4 and a half years ago?

Stacey: I was just, that was what I was gonna say to Tommy, I'm gonna talk about on the show because I actually think I've known Josh longer than you, which is crazy 'cause I feel like I've been married to you, but in a weird work way. But yeah, I, what were we, what, why were we doing?

Josh: I literally just pulled up the, I pulled up the email. I remember the call, but I just—

Stacey: Oh my God, don't even tell me anything about that email.

Tommy: Read it, Josh.

Josh: Oh. So you were basically, the short version is that you got my details from Kerry Jones, who you worked with at Nova. Basically, you were just wanting to talk about an online project But you were in Cairns at the time, so we Skyped. And I remember I get really excited about stuff. And I remember I'd listened to Thinker Girls. And I think I was just adamant that you just should keep going with the podcast. I remember it was sort of—

Stacey: I remember you saying it to me.

Josh: At that time, SCA was sort of showing interest. And my vibe was that, anything that your benefit, the thing that you bring, um, is only going to benefit the radio state. Like, adding radio, I thought, was only going to fuck what you had, because what you had was intimacy, connection with audience, you had a tribe, all of these things that at the end of the day— and it's the same reason why Emre Cano has a show, is because the the radio stations see this amazing tribe she has and they're like, okay, well, we can leverage that. Rather than— I think like at the end of the day, Emre Cano is going to thrive, I think, being her own media company, just the same way that you guys are going to thrive as your own media company. I just remember almost— it was probably looking back, I cringe a little bit because I get into this advice mansplainy style mode where I start just smashing this sort of thing.

Stacey: I think—

Tommy: Mate, there's no mansplainy coming on from you because you don't even know how to be a man, so.

Stacey: Oh, is that true? Nah, well, I mean, I wouldn't know.

Josh: I'm a bit femme.

Tommy: But he loves to explain things.

Stacey: I always try.

Tommy: But you know things, that's the thing.

Stacey: Well, I think also you are curious, and what comes with curiosity is a level of of intelligence that I think people often put as a bit of naivety. Does that make sense? And I rate curiosity-formed intelligence rather than know-it-alls or bossy. And you're curious, so that means that you've looked in plenty of different boxes or you've looked down different roads. So yeah, I never took it as you trying to give me advice as such, but more I remember that we were having an open conversation about ways that media was gonna go. I mean, this would have been 6 years ago, 5 years ago, and so much has changed already.

Josh: And I remember, I think that part of the context that I have, I think that people still don't necessarily get it, but it's like the experience that I've had, like I remember in 2005 sitting in my room listening to podcasts becoming fans of different shows and recording my own stuff. And I think that it's, um, yeah, it's, it's an inter— once you have that context, I think that if you start with podcasting, I never understood the desire to— I never had a desire to have a radio show. Like, I think that, that was one of the interesting things with, um, even working within the radio industry there's always— Tommy and I have spoken about it a lot, where it's that stigma of anyone that's around radio wants to be on air. And for me, it wasn't necessarily that I wanted to be on air. I saw it as like I wanted to be creating something. I wanted to create an audience.

Stacey: I totally get that because I remember the first piece of advice I had when I was off air, and somebody said to me, you don't get to do both. You can only do one or the other. And I was like, Well, that's ridiculous because I feel like I've got interest in both. I like helping build other people's ideas and I actually think I'm a good extender. Like I feel like, oh yeah, this, this, this, and I can creatively kind of collaborate. But I also knew that I had strong ideas of my own that I'd like to communicate in the way that I like to broadcast them and express them. At that point, I couldn't have at all articulated that that's what it was and I was just very impressionable and very new to the industry. But I remember being sent to South Africa because I could do both. And it was back in online days where you weren't sending just random online people to go, but I was like, I can present and I can film and edit. And I remember someone telling me that piece of advice, you have to choose, just after I'd gotten back from that trip. And I thought, well, hang on a second, I just went to the World Cup in South Africa. I think I'm gonna leave your advice to the side. But it was very, very the radio industry of life. It is one way, you know? And I think that's where I fell a bit uneasy in that it was one way and that was it. 'Cause I liked parts of radio, but I also liked to explore different avenues. And I think that's the thing that, yeah, sometimes is a little bit hard is that it's, there's that kind of opening to different ways is it doesn't feel like it's an easy thing there.

Josh: I mean, I laugh so much when I hear hear some radio personalities doing podcasts and they do their big thank yous at the end to all of the producers that they help produce their fucking podcasts. And I think like, mate, you literally, you need a microphone. You need to like learn how to press the upload button. You didn't need 6 people to produce this. So I think there is that level where it's like—

Stacey: We were gonna start saying thank you to our producer because she does edit the show. So will you think we're wankers now?

Tommy: Do you pay her?

Stacey: Yeah, Georgia. She's been, well, no, she was an intern for 12 months and we've just started, we're just about to hire her part-time paid.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And this is the announcement show. Fuck yeah, you're hired.

Josh: This is good. I've got an exclusive. I mean, this is the thing. I reckon that the stuff that we need to be really careful of, like I personally think, I'm speaking to myself here, is it's like, not to listen to podcasts and think, and then all of a sudden start merging that shit in to like the extra— the thing that's making podcasting great is the nimble nature of podcasting. That when— and so I think that there is that even how people speak within a podcast. Like I listened to a podcast yesterday where the person was doing an intro and and they've had a huge amount of radio experience. And I was like, oh, it almost seems like you're parodying what a podcast should be. And so I think that that's a, um, that's, that's a big one for me. I just feel like I, um, where my energy goes is I don't want— as soon as I feel like we're sounding like how everyone else is sounding, for me that is alarm bells. Because whilst that might work work when you're transitioning one big show on a national drive slot. It's not gonna work if you've got thousands of shows to pick from.

Stacey: It's interesting. Well, it's interesting 'cause we went from podcasting to radio, back to podcasting, and now drop different shows with different kind of vibes most of the days of the week. And we went very early, at the beginning of launching the pod channel this year, we went back to just that podcasting vibe, and it, I don't know, we were getting a lot of radio listeners and we were introducing them to podcasts, so we had to actually find a bit of a balance where we still had the banter that just went on for however long, and if you went off topic, it was fine. You just circle, you don't go back, you keep going. And we have that at the same time we're trying to build an online brand, And so we'd like people to know that rating and reviews allow us to get more list, you know, those types of, I suppose, messagings were very, very minimal on our podcast show before. And I actually think that's helped a little bit. So whilst I get that, I think that there's room for a bit of a balance, especially as well when they become more commercial, which ours has become. It was interesting because we swear a lot on our show, but we've had sponsors the last couple of months. And there was, we had a Lola Berry podcast, an interview, and she was, people loved it, but she said the C word, which I don't know how you guys feel about, so I'm not gonna drop it. And we didn't edit it out, and we had a very big sponsor, and we had to go back. I made the decision, no one asked us, but I went, I wouldn't want them to this to be the one reason that they wouldn't come back, you know. So it is, it's going to be interesting once things do become commercial too, because isn't that sometimes the beginning of the end for creativity? Like, it's tricky, it's very tricky.

Josh: Instagram. Yeah, go on, Tommy.

Tommy: Sorry, the biggest podcasts in the world have— they do what they want. Like, the ones that I aspire to, uh, the ones that that don't have that. And I don't know, maybe—

Stacey: What would you have done? Would you have beeped the C, the C word?

Tommy: Maybe run it past them. I don't know, maybe even that filter. So the thing is Josh and I are not—

Josh: I mean, we've used the word and we've definitely, we've stopped swearing as much just because we realised that we were replacing our ums with fucks. So we've stopped doing that. But I think, At the same time, for me, looking at the problem, like all of these things are small problems. So one of them is, okay, people are only going to leave us reviews when we actually tell them to leave reviews. So the way that I'm trying to tackle that problem is say, okay, well, how do we actually turn that into content rather than it just being— that was my annoyance in regards to radio's approach to social media is it was always pushing to their website. They wouldn't put the content natively on the platform.

Stacey: That was full-on for a while there, wasn't it?

Tommy: It's gross.

Josh: Yeah. They were pixelating shit. They were pixelating a fucking photo so you click through. I mean, yeah, morons. And so the thing is like, I've been, I think that I probably sound a little bit jaded when I talk about radio because I've been in those meetings where I'm like, guys, this isn't good for the platforms, this isn't good for the audiences. But I think that my point around the, um, review stuff is we definitely try and make it content. So rather than it just being a, uh, hey, do the review, just being like, this was actually a funny thing that we found and we're going to do a whole bit of content. And maybe this arc will go for 7 episodes where we're talking about this review, or there's a joke around the view, like Tommy tested out the review function. So if you go to the last 3 reviews on the podcast app, it says, great banter, you know, keep it up boys. And the name says Tommy Fucking Jacket on it. Like, how about—

Stacey: can you change the name? I've always wondered that. So if you put— can you go back and put a different name?

Tommy: No, it's your iPhone's name or your Apple account's name.

Josh: Yeah, it's the first one that you ever did. So some people would And I think it translates across to app reviews too. So some people will have names like Angry Birds is Shit because the first thing they ever reviewed was Angry Birds and they couldn't come up with a name.

Stacey: Those poor buggers.

Tommy: Yeah, there's something liberating in doing what you want. It's the pushback on having to explain who our guest is. You kind of like, it's this, I don't know, it's weird. It's very like performer to go, introduce a guest in that style. So it's what's, we don't know that, I don't know what the new way of doing it is. I don't know, I like just talking about our connection 'cause it's real, it doesn't look into your achievements, it's you as a person, how the fuck do we know each other?

Stacey: You're right.

Tommy: Are we mates?

Stacey: Because I think as well, well, the energy, I'm a big believer in that, well, it's a fact that everything's energy-driven, right? As soon as you start getting anything synthetic, stick on top of that connection, the energy shifts. And I've always said this, whether it's a radio or a podcast listener, you can sniff it. You can sniff it a mile away. So without the mechanics, which is kind of your intro, your traditional intro of an episode, I suppose, yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure what everybody, all of the best creatives say that content is king, connection is king, right? The rest speaks for itself.

Tommy: It takes you— I think it takes time too, because you're trying to— how can I be authentic in a situation that isn't the most natural? Like, you get headphones on, you're holding a microphone, you know, it's this— it's like when you— when I started first talking to a camera, I remember my, um, my forehead looked like a dirt jump track.

Josh: Like, I was—

Tommy: it was so tight. And if you look at people that are trying to talk to a camera now, like, you'll see they keep their eyebrows raised and their forehead just looks, you know.

Stacey: And they're on edge.

Tommy: Yeah, they're on edge. Hey guys, it's, I'm here. And so it takes time for you to just actually relax into yourself. Hamish Blake said it took him years. He said he, what did he say? He had an English accent at one point. It sounded like this nasally, and he's like, I don't even know who that was. He said something around, it was weird. I just hadn't settled into myself.

Stacey: Yeah, and that as a person too, I think we're all settling into ourselves as we get older. Mold and then putting on top of that this kind of fake, weird, I suppose, I've used the word bravado a lot this year 'cause I think one of the biggest things that I've learned since I've stopped being in that environment is that of who I am without the bravado, without this kind of mask of a personality. And I don't think it's just people in entertainment. I think a lot of people at dinner parties or at work or the way they are at families have this kind of bravado mask that we're all kind of living under. It's just so much more extreme when you do this kind of work. So I myself have very much tried to figure out the kind of content I wanna do, the things that the next projects I wanna do without the bravado, very much so, more connection-driven. And it sounds so ridiculous 'cause everybody keeps saying authentic, authentic, authentic. If I hear that word, I'm gonna hit myself in the face. But at the same time, yeah, I think it's less talk about authentic and more talking about getting to know who you actually are. Do you know what I mean? 'Cause you can kind of give an idea of what your version of authenticity is, but if you haven't actually looked yourself in the mirror, you don't actually know who the hell you are to be what your authentic, what authenticity is.

Tommy: I saw a woman on LinkedIn talking about authenticity and how important it is, and it couldn't have been more—

Stacey: Non-authentic?

Tommy: Yeah. Oh my, it was so embarrassing. It was like awkward, and the poor thing is probably new to doing it. So I wasn't really criticising her, but it was It was just out of alignment with what she was talking about in the biggest way possible. And yeah, you're right, it is authentic is a buzzword. I've been saying, I've been using that term for a long time with my stuff I create. 'Cause it's like, and for me authentic content to me means what connects with me the most. And so it's authentic to me first and then other people will relate to it if they do. And so it's just truly what I think or what I'm truly interested in. In and where my curiosity lies and the storey that actually appeals to me. And for that, for me, that's authentic content. So I don't know.

Josh: Yeah, I think vulnerability, vulnerability is facing the same thing where I think that like, I, since doing the Daily Talk Show, I've just consumed so much, like especially being away. So for people who don't know, I'm currently remote, I'm in France and I've just been spending heaps of time listening to stuff. And the amount of people who are talking about vulnerability rather than being vulnerable, like people are confusing the talking of vulnerability and let's get vulnerable and I'm being vulnerable right now rather than actually like when would you in a moment that a vulnerability actually point out the fact that you're being vulnerable?

Stacey: I think the interesting part on that is that everybody has different vulnerability levels too. Like often when we did our radio show, everyone was saying, "Oh my God, you're so vulnerable, you're so vulnerable." And so I would hear that, hear that, and hear that. And then I realised in my personal life, I would think to myself, "Oh, I'm being vulnerable." But that might be vulnerable for the person telling me, 'cause that person going on air and sharing these personal storeys is, that's terrifying for them. That's showing this vulnerability. But then when I met my partner, that was when I had to learn about vulnerability. That was when I had to get out of this independent, and being single for 5 years and actually pulled the walls down. And I was like, shit, I thought I was already vulnerable. And I went, oh no, actually vulnerability is very different for everybody. Your version of vulnerability is going to be very unique to the next person. So there isn't one version of that.

Tommy: As you can hear, Stace took a real hit after that cop incident. She really had her heart set on that bloke. And no, but here's a question for you. Here's a question for you. Um, you know, so I think about things I would do on camera, like, you know, I would probably do some pretty crazy shit because it's on camera, and I feel like I can summon a level of courage to do something if it's being recorded because I know the value is, ah, this is, you know, but if it wasn't recorded and it wasn't in that environment, maybe I wouldn't do some certain things. The same with being vulnerable. I think, do you think there's a mask that goes on for people that get this courage to be what they think is vulnerable, but do you think that's still being vulnerable in those moments?

Josh: 'Cause—

Stacey: I think it might be masked as vulnerability. I think it's something else. I think it's an adrenaline hit or it's a, it's like a risk or a challenge. Like I think there's something else driving it. I think maybe the result is people feel vulnerability from it, but maybe it's not that you're being vulnerable. 'Cause I know that for a while there, I would be doing these types of topics in front of a national audience international audience, and it was almost like I was told I couldn't do this. You know, there was something else driving me, yet everybody else was taking it as vulnerable. But I don't know when I look back now knowing levels of my true vulnerability if that was actually vulnerable at all. I think Lena Dunham said it where people were really perplexed by all of her nudity in Girls, the season that she directed and starred in. The series, but she would look back at them and go, that's your vulnerability. I actually don't have an issue with being naked. And that was when I kind of went, ah, interesting.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Behind closed doors, vulnerability is a lot different. Having a hard conversation that you just don't want to have is being more vulnerable than standing on a street corner yelling that you're, you know, whatever.

Stacey: For a performer it is because that's your job. You know, for somebody else standing on the corner doing whatever example you're going to say might be very vulnerable for them. For them. It's true.

Josh: Well, I even feel that I'm more like, I'll say things on the podcast that I won't even talk about with my family. So like, that's been an interesting reflective thing of me. I'm like, well, shit, I haven't even said this to my family or close friends, and yet I'm having this conversation on the podcast. Do you ever fall into that?

Stacey: I would never have had those conversations with any of my other girlfriends before I met Kristi and started doing that show. I swear it was insane. And she says the same thing. I think she said, "It wasn't like I was this friend and the one in the group that was always the one to talk about sex or always the one to share all of these stories. We just had a chemistry that got a bit of a buzz from having those conversations." So there was a buzz, but I also felt like, yeah, it became about a performance a bit too, which was quite thrilling and had that kind of adrenaline buzz. And also, I don't know what it is. You kind of feel like it's starting a conversation. I think that was a little bit of the drive too. It's creating something into the sphere. And it might not be creative like a painting, but you feel like you are starting something or creating something new.

Tommy: Josh, just quickly.

Josh: Tommy and I talk about all for content. I just wanted to ask you, because just a little insight, when Tommy did his engagement video, he actually recorded the proposal next to water and you couldn't properly hear him doing the proposal. So he actually, I suggested and he went ahead and it's on YouTube. He recorded him saying his lines, what's known as ADR in the industry in film. And he got Amy to do the response. So if you listen to the video, it's actually a recording after the fact.

Stacey: It's a VO. It's a bloody VO.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. Did you ever, Were you ever worried? Congratulations, you got married in New York recently. Were you conscious of it being hashtag all for content?

Stacey: No, it wasn't at all. We didn't tell anybody about it. We honestly, it was kept pretty on the DL for that exact reason. And I kept it like a private time for almost close to a month. And then I, like put everything on Instagram and then it almost kind of disconnected to my personal time and became about sharing. But there are still photos, like the photos in City Hall when we say our vows, just before we say them, there's particular parts of that day that I didn't consciously decide, but that felt like my favourite part of the day. No one will ever see those photos. So I didn't make this decision beforehand, I'm gonna separate it, but I knew that that to me felt like, something I wanted to keep, and so I kept it, and then the rest everybody got, and Jesus, everybody loved it. Oh my God, I could not, yeah, it was a crazy response considering it's 2018, and just getmarriedhowyouwant.com.

Josh: What are you excited about for the rest of the year? What, like in general, in life?

Tommy: This is a good way to finish up 'cause we're just getting a wrap-up signal.

Stacey: I am about to launch my own blog, which I feel like you guys talk about being late to podcasting. Yeah, but I don't give a shit 'cause that's a way I think that I'm going to start having a bit of an idea of this, I don't know, I feel like it's a bit of a new chapter for me with I suppose a bit of a narrative of a lot of stuff that I've done behind the scenes for many years and it's making me a bit nervous 'cause it's stepping, it's dancing around the self-helpy, I suppose, element. But I'm just gonna do exactly as we were talking before and do the things that interest me and share the things that I wanna share today and not share because it comes under a Thinker Girls banner or comes under a radio banner or comes under a this will be great to get another job. I just wanna be able to have a creative outlet to push things out that are current and what I'm into. Yeah, I'm gonna start that in the next month and start populating that. And just continuing to do the pod channel. It's nice to have gotten to a place where we realized, there's been a few times this year where we're like, will we keep doing it? And it's become my part-time job in that I was thinking, shit, I'm gonna have to go get a telly job or I'm gonna have to get something behind the scenes again. And The Thinker Girls has just kept coming through. So it ended up being my other job. So it'll be interesting to see how that pans out and also very new for me to be doing any kind of project on my own. 'Cause for a very long time working with Tommy, working with Christie, working with other different co-hosts, I've very rarely stepped out and shared content solo. So I'm very nervous about that, but I'm very excited.

Tommy: It's the opposite journey to what Josh and I are doing.

Stacey: Yeah.

Tommy: We're joining together 'cause we've been doing shit on our own.

Stacey: Yeah, so I'll have to call you guys. And say, I'm lonely. Can I please come back on the show?

Josh: That's what I think is great about, especially what you're doing with Thinker Girls, is it's like you are scaling friendship. You're allowing people who might work on their own to be able to have a friend and to listen. So yeah, we've been really inspired with, I know I've been really inspired with what you were doing with Thinker Girls, and that was really what got me thinking more and more about doing this type of podcast and providing and seeing the vulnerability that you and Chrissy have in your show and saying, well, why can't a couple of dudes actually do something that's not so fucking cliché and so obvious and so, you know, and try and be a bit more vulnerable, maybe a bit thinker boys, #thinkerboys.

Tommy: Yeah, we'll talk about it.

Stacey: Tommy is not interested in going under that wing. He doesn't wanna be in the shadows. He's got his own thing.

Tommy: Finish this. Um, it's 96 Nine star FM, Tommy and Stace.

Stacey: Ah guys, this is the best. Very lovely.

Josh: The Daily Talk Show. Thanks, Stace.

Stacey: Thanks, guys.