- August 14, 2018
The Daily Talk Show — Tuesday August 14 (Ep 151) – Josh Janssen & Tommy Jackett
Mirte Van Der Lugt has built a life being paid to be creative. Born in the Netherlands — now living in Australia — she’s the Creative Director at Hey Tiger, a chocolate company and social enterprise who are known for their bold branding and unique flavour combos. Being Dutch in Australia, having ADHD, long term relationships, modelling and more! Mirte is super honest and we cover a lot!
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conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janssen Tommy Hello,
it's the daily talk show. We've got Musa Musa How do you say last name again?
I just learned something your part Dutch Josh
yeah my my pa was Dutch he still is Dutch be dead but yeah no I dedicate this up to you yeah tipa to the Dutch words
yeah well I haven't got no idea what heritage I have but I didn't look Australian do I
know the beads
Matter of fact that term here near term m i RT a mere to me
what stuff up to be had people say when they reading that one
The best way is very Australian made me
so English second language for you. Yes. Yeah. So can we just Can we just do this in, in Dutch?
And I know nothing. Wow, I know nothing. Man. I would love to learn another language. Yeah, I
Australian say and nobody
would love to learn French. Nobody says I would love
to learn a language. Yeah, I had I am a girlfriend years ago and a father was Dutch. And I remember he had a bit of an attitude and
But anyway, it was.
I spoke to my dad. He said Oh, yeah, you know they have a reputation the Dutchman Is this a thing? Did you know about that? In what way to be to be a bit. standoffish arrogance probably not the best word but it's like arrogant,
I think that the Dutch tend to be quite inclusive. But I do think that there is an arrogance.
And, and with men. Yes, I think so. And so.
I don't think it's meant to be arrogant. But I think it comes across as
Yeah, but that's the How do you think the men got that? How did you think that's come about from you know, you're on the ground research.
You're like, oh, oh, you guys like Yeah,
true. Yeah, there is a real in our culture. There's a real thing about like, you know, how sport is a real big thing here. Blood? Yeah, yeah, it's it's so
it's such a like also school, it seems like, you know, the cool kids do sports or 40. And all that kind of Yeah, the cool. I feel that a lot of it's very cool in Holland to be smart. So if you do good, you get good grades. If you become like, you know, an academic. That's seen as very cool. So I think that comes with a little bit of arrogance is in need to be learned. Yeah, I know what I'm talking about. Like that. That kind of attitude.
No, I remember having
no, I remember, we had some touch relatives and we would constantly get into fights. Like I remember mom got into a big fight with one of them about
It's a heated discussion that you not use. You're not used to though, right? Like, yeah, you won't, especially when someone's coming and staying at your house. And then all of a sudden, like, Mom is having this big show with the guy about fluoride in the water. Really? Yeah. He was saying he was saying that how bad it is, right? Mom's a dental nurse. And she was saying like, teeth have never been better. Awesome.
You know, like what I one of the things I found difficult when I came over here is that the data love the discussion, right? And it's almost you know, you sitting around the table with everybody. Australians have this real matchup if you don't agree with me. You know, I we made. This is like a bit awkward like this is confronting that you don't agree with my point of view. But in Holland, it's almost if you straight away agree with everybody. It's like, you're holding back something this is not ride like you're so it's encouraged to have a different opinion. So you often will see in conversation that somebody would just take the CounterPoint just to have that discussion. That's so interesting,
because I'm I miss Yeah, because I feel like I definitely have been in taxis or stuff like that. And they'll say something racist. And in that moment, like they're like, you know, the fact and LeBron, isn't it? Yeah.
Yeah, you you aligned with it just to not have the confrontation? Yeah. So I'll lean into it.
Yeah. Tell me what, why is that so? nickname push back. Push back on.
So metre, and I like to explain for people how me Sure and I know each other. Misha is the creative director of high Tango, which is such a big deal. Because if you look at any of this stuff, this everyone's always talking about the branding, the Instagram, all that sort of thing metres behind that. And it's crazy. And so Bry was working at a tiger, and now we're travelling
and she didn't get fired. She's left to go on.
This is gonna be her first week would
be fun. But yeah, so the funny thing is that that was me Teresa, crab director. We worked out out of coincidence, I was looking at some old, I was looking at, you know, I love a bit of nostalgia. I was looking at like old lists, and it has a photo like of a course that I didn't see a film TV. And there's like a photo of me. And I saw like the last name. I'm like, Oh, that's a Dutch last night. Josh, what's
the funny thing is Bry you tried to teach me before we got here and it was nothing like
and so you go.
That would have been 2017 like
1110 years ago. You called me or you messaged He's like, we need to
tell you I was like on the Tour de m. So I was like, Man, this is crazy.
You guys didn't do you remember? We working together? Did you? I was I was I was I
don't I don't really remember.
That sounds real bad. Now, but we it was it was a foundation causes PCA. And we all kind of had our own groups and stuff that we did films with. We probably did something together. Yeah, we did them that and he spoke about this storey
was it. Todd Winkler storey?
Yeah. Yes. We've talked on the podcast. Call me I have a big storey. We're in the middle is cloud. Oh,
yeah. And I did a film with him and everything. Like it was crazy.
Yeah. So just to summarise some of that I went to school with killed he.
Yeah, he was
my own YouTube and watch that
there's a whole documentary about Yeah. Just turned on. By the way. If you go back to VC, it
could be your next film.
He's really just bought, I found some. And then
I just like, I just found the list that he added me on Facebook, which is like, only Facebook saw that I searched for him after you the storey and then Mike suggested Oh, remember that he asked you to become friends. I'm like Facebook. Oh,
I wonder. I wonder what the deal is when someone goes into jail. Like cuz there's, there's literally you go into his facebook profile. And the last status is seriously Todd is in jail. It's had zero likes, obviously. But for someone
Yeah. Do you remember? Yeah, they did a bunch of like, Facebook posts. I won't bore you with them. But they literally went through and was was saying no, Todd has been arrested or something like that. But I wonder what happened. It's like when someone dies like I thought about that, like when we die.
Use them. I've seen that happen. And some people use it as a like a
moron type Oriole
type thing. So people go there and sometimes post or family
or friends. Their pages is still up and every year. It's just like people are piling on to it for and you can request to have them removed the family. Tight downpipe. Does it sound a bit dark here is not.
We also Misha. And I also have something in common which we started like video stuff. Young, you were like directing the similarities. Both started like editing and stuff. I'm all 12 years old. And you were actually you diagnosed with ADHD? Yeah, I was. I was never diagnosed, but it was a threat. It was literally a threat. My mom, my mom would threaten to medicate me all the time. If you don't behave, we're going to the doctors and we're getting getting you sorted. Really?
Well. Yeah, my teachers threaten me.
Nobody threatened me with it. It was more that eventually, like I was kicked out, not kicked out. But I was fucking difficult students. Like, I always was having arguments with the teachers. And in the end, it came out that I actually was quite smart. But they thought it was dumb.
Yeah. And I was bored, you know, but I'm just sounds like Holland. Yeah, just push back. Whenever they say,
get into the school system, but it just like, my, my blood is boiling.
But eventually, I was going to get kicked out of my school. He said, She's not even gonna finish this school and like four years, like, she's never gonna be able to do this. This is my
is my second high school. And then I said, You know what, I want to try Ritalin. And I never had tried it before. And that was an instant change. And I finished it in like, two years after that.
finish school or finish
school like that, and then went to the next level and stuff. So readdle indefinitely. So for me, I stopped taking it now only this year actually
really have a meeting the other week, and about some video work that we're doing and you just dropped in there. So we're talking about the health care of Holland. Oh, yes. Australia.
So Holland is specific area of the Netherlands. Is that right? Or what's the what's the difference?
Yeah, so there's a bit of confusion between the Netherlands and Holland. It's the same thing. Holland is part of the Netherlands. So you got North Holland and, and South Hall. An Amsterdam is basically its provinces. And Amsterdam is in one of those. But it also used to be
Holland. Was that where you? Are you from to say you're from Holland.
You say you're from the Netherlands, sadly, because of English people having taken on the word Holland, I make the mistake sometimes as well. And some people when you say I'm from the Netherlands, they look at you wait, and you say hello. And they're like,
Oh, yes. Yeah. So
it's just a
weird. Yeah. So healthcare, we're discussing much better in the Netherlands than Australia. But you said something like, Oh, yeah, I was taking my ADHD tablets were cheaper
is kind of cut. So you in the Holland, it's required, how do you say, like, it's obligated, you're obligated to have healthcare. And so the standard standard things, you have to pay for it. And you So here, you get Medicare, like for free, right? In Hawaii, you have to have health care, you have to pay for it. But even if you like let's say you guys moved to Netherlands, that you've lived there for five years, and then you're like, Oh, I should probably get healthcare, you get fined for those five years that you haven't had it. So it's like it's obligated, right? However, then everything is kind of taken care of. Like if I would go to the I would never pick up my car. Now here. I go to the doctors and I wanted to walk out and I'm like, Hey, excuse me, come back. You need to pay. I'm like, No, I got private. Yeah, no, like,
you have to pay like
10%. Is that what some mad number?
Yeah, it's a bit ridiculous here. And so when you start when you started taking the tablets, because I'm sure I probably could have taken them to it. What did you do once you
instal? Look, there's
psychology wise, you can almost look at it two ways, right? I made a decision that I wanted to make a change that probably helped me as well, in fact that I actually was like, I'm going to now it's no longer the fault of my teachers. If I fucked this up. It's my fault. So I need to make decision to commit but at the same time, I also went on Ritalin and Ritalin definitely does. If you have ADHD, not if you don't, because otherwise just to go let's go by like its speed, right? And speed. But for somebody with ADHD, it does baseline you so you are finally able to concentrate and when the way ADHD works, is not only your hyperactive, which is I think, a little bit of a misconception that ADHD is just hyperactive news. It's also the inability to make decisions. So your brain sends like, okay, I want to do this or have a list of things to do. But the receivers are mottled because I can't really compare says, but it's also decision making. So a lot of people with ADHD they know that they have to do this to do and they can literally sit on the couch like still and they can't move because the decision making process is impaired by I don't know,
Josh is where that's procrastination. I reckon I've got 100% got it. By God,
The the idea of medication like what was the what was the waning of process? Like what what made you decide to not to not to the main gives
me It gives me anxiety. Yeah, so I already I think I am already like a person that is has a lot of anxiety and then in doubt, and goes into my own head a little bit too much. And, and Ritalin does it speed right? It's like coffee, it doesn't add to your stress hormones and everything. So I do feel that since I've been offered, I've been a lot more like a happy person I feel. But look at it, how I I struggled a little bit with making it sound but because it did help me as a child for very, very long. It helped me in early stage of my career as well.
So now I'm done. So you are you less focused now happy, but let's focus
I think I need to work harder on my habit. So I create like a habit processes in like, okay, in the morning, I wake up at five and like I have the things that I do in the morning. And then I have like a coffee. Coffee.
in a bag. That's fancy.
Yeah. padded crap. Well, I think it's, I think it's the same sort of shit, right? They just put it in a bag now. So you
know about health. And when this is like so like the opposite of what I love it always, you know, it's just about creating habits, beliefs, presentation is a hard thing. But it's just at one point you need to do it without right you need to come up with ways that work for you. And we all have that shit.
Is there anything that you that you did, like a physical activity or something that stimulates the mind? is sort of helped?
Yeah, oh, I think meditation is a really good thing. I'm doing a little bit less now. But I do yoga every morning. And I do exercise obviously, like running
and stuff. And that helps that
I feel if all of those things help. So if you're going if you're if you're if you are on.
If you're on Ritalin and wanting to go, wanting to go off, I think exercise meditation, and creating like healthy habits is like how to do it. I feel. And I think that's for everyone. Really the problem
is taking your pills easier. But that's like
headaches and shit like
that. That's what I mean. So it's a hard thing to say it's just, I know that kids can also substitute Ritalin for meditation. I know there's courses to do that. Yeah, that's cool.
And was any of this stuff talked about when you were on a as a kid back? In the Netherlands?
No. And also not the I remember coming back after run No, still living with my parents that would have been probably around the age of 16, or something like that. And I just went for a run. And I came back and I was really angry. And I was like, I was so focused and concentrated. Now why did the doctors never tell me I could also go for a run instead of taking a pill. Right? And I was really pissed off about it. But my parents did say it back then I think they probably did say that you just weren't. Right. So you're right. It's easier to take a pic than it is to make those healthy choices. Yes.
How do you work with other people like it because obviously you can control your internal stuff. But I think that like what stresses me out is when my procrastination affects other people, or if I'm like, trying to compete, it's that whole thing that you talked about where it's like, you know, the things that you need to do. And so sometimes I'm like, Okay, I'm going to do the thing. But then I forget to communicate that I'm doing the thing, or I'm like, someone say Hi, it's all about communication. So I'll spend all my time in the email, like communicating them doing the thing rather than doing the thing. Like how have you have you dealt with in the context of like, working with others?
Good question. I don't I like working from home and having that balance. So I work from home at least two days a week. And then I'm in the office for like three or two and a half. And then it's all meetings, meetings, music communicate. I don't know the communication part. And don't think I have done I struggle with procrastination. I definitely have.
Yeah, communicating procrastination I like, because I feel
I'm just trying to fix the press. I know my presentation that it comes from a fear of failure. I know that it comes from that. So generally, I'm what I'm trying to do, and I'm getting a little bit better at it now is that if I'm procrastinating with something, I literally walk away from it. I'm like, what, what is worrying you here? So I always, like talking to myself, and I'm like, I'm going through this thing, and then I most often will find it I am afraid that something will happen that will make it bad, and therefore, people will judge me and therefore I'm not to be loved. Right. And generally when I come to that point, I walk back and it's fine. But I've found in the last probably this year really that it comes down to that I'm afraid of failing. What nation generally comes from a underlying Yeah, fear.
What about like small tasks? I struggle with? bucket, the creative stuff, the things that I'm like getting fulfilled on that's really easy, but the shit that's just like,
yeah, that doesn't feel that important. Yeah, yeah. I really struggle when I feel when that I'm doing something that really actually isn't that important. And I think I've tried to delegate delegate that. Yeah.
But then again, we have to do some stuff.
Yeah, exactly. Go through the boring stuff. So
I think we all have that as well. It's not really just
Well, I think that's part of the thing is like, because I reckon when you have been doing it for a while, like because I started so young. I think that I've got all this. It's almost like a bad golf. golf swing. Yeah. Like it's hard to like
golf. You know, you play golf. I know.
Just like a man sliding on the sport, Jai Jai?
Yeah, let's go for it. We'll play. You play God.
Josh loves metaphors, referring to the person that's played golf, and has got a fixed swing.
Swing is like yeah,
and so I
said, the exact
thing is that it's the Yeah, I reckon, the longer that you've been doing it for you sort of pick up all these little nuances and habit, bad things, bad habits, and then all of a sudden, you realise and like, one thing that I've noticed is the, the things that like you, I heard this great quote, which was, time is the fuel of fear. And for me, so many, like even just finishing up work tomorrow and I've been met with all of these things I've been putting off and I've realised that there's been stuff that I put off for a month that's taken me less than 20 minutes to do.
But that's because it's already you've stopped you didn't do it because it's part of your habit of pushing anyway, but that's like how your brain works, right? Like you know, like a like a field of high brass or something right? And you have a little barrel in the middle of that field and you go from your your farm to that barrel the same way every time every time that grass goes flat, right and it creates a path right? Yes, your habit path and that's what you always do. And then you decide Actually, I'm going to go this way this time. So it's like you going left instead of right. So it takes a lot of time to create a new path to go over that grass again, right? So that's the first thing you need to spend a lot of time creating that new path but the hardest thing is that the other path now needs time to grow over with new grass right? Yeah, but that takes a little time so it's very easy for your mind to go back to your old habit because that's not grown over yet.
Just time and then you scared getting bitten by a snake going through the new grass. It's all scary. Writing Yeah. It's like there is it's Yeah, we're our own worst enemy to our to ourselves in our mind.
And it's also like I think it's a it's a common thing as well right? Like I think this is
I think every single person has it some people are just a little bit better at doing the new path thing
Yeah. Or even masking it
or to commitment to do that yeah, and to notice when it happens I think that's a big thing as well that you noticing a fuck I'm doing I'm doing that fucking habit that is not good for me you know? Snap out of it do the other thing Yeah, I think
you may be thinking you have to that's the first step to actually starting to create change is thinking about what the hell is going off in your head because it's going to happen
well and yeah, being able to identify it I wonder you're into branding stuff you know creative direction. Tommy and I've spoken a lot about personal re brands have you had love that photo that you
want the elephant
check it one the one that you
love the caption a few a few friends ago yeah.
Have you noticed specific times in your life where you've had active re brands where you've said you know I'm going from one career to another career I'm going to change the way I look I'm going to change the way that I communicate to people
just trying to find a single
Josh be very conscious around these things. I mean the closest thing I have to a rebrand is when my wife goes and buys me new clothes and that's what
happens when a sale
is ready brands go into a perfectly aligned to rebrand This was from
previous and this is from think about it I don't even know
it's just something that progressively happens like obviously I look totally
I was looking I was looking on your Facebook and that you had like a throwback
for short hair is shaved
cuz you So did you do so you were model or was it
so I did and I had at one point I had white blonde hair and bleached eyebrows because that was my look well so
that you couldn't see them I'm just showing you
you don't even look like you know
it's it's a memory look right?
That was long hair put up with it. They shaved it like it was shaved off and it was like that Pixie caught I think back then there was this one model Agnes Dean or something that was way back when and that Luke was to have a Jordan is look with that blonde white hair was rare but looks look after or Look, I was
That's like the funny this stuff is it's like you look back at me. Like that photo for me. That was only 2012 like, could you imagine just house hanging out with
you in Australia at that point. Now
that was in another was Fashion Week in the Netherlands? That one? Yeah.
What was the whole model thing? Like?
I don't think that I ever had the commitment to be like, I really want to do this. But what was good about is, is that I could do that and earn some money on the side of studying and I didn't have to work in a bar or something. Yeah, that was awesome. And, and also, I was studying fashion at it because I did fashion and branding. So I did branding focus on the fashion industry. So that was great as well, because it allowed me to go into places that I think, yeah, you know, you're in that school ready, you're in that round and gives you that extra extra. So that was all it all kind of merged together. But I started modelling as like a baby as a kid as well. Really? Yeah.
Your parents were
well now the best thing was underwear seeing was so this is gonna be interesting. My parents here it is but like so my parents at one point. It was
I believe they listened regular.
No, but my parents gave me eventually like they gave me I think the card of the money that I had earned being a model as a kid. They were like, Hey, you know, at a certain age, this is your money. So do what it is you wish right and I think I just bought Wade
I don't remember how much money was on the
man. But I think
it was in my mind. It was a lot.
Yeah. A lot when you're a kid. What made you move to Australia? I fell in love. Yeah,
I was travelling and Thailand when I was 18. And I met Damon, which is now my husband's amazing. 12 years, I think 12 years or whatever amount of time but really bad.
I'm 3030 Thanks.
Josie. My man. Yeah.
How you see my man,
Michael icon. I'm not good at math.
Yes, it's a
felon, Damon. And then we were we travelled for three months or Thailand. And I met him like in the first month or something. And then we travelled together for one month. And then we basically said, How about I just come to Australia? Cool. And then I was like, I don't know if this is a Dutch thing of me if that's like that independence, but I was like, I want to do something here. That's mine. So I did CCA, which is why did you see at that time on cool, interesting.
You see the sort of movement in Australia with, you know, women in the workplace in the, you know, emphasis on, you know, making it very equal. What's the deal back in the Netherlands is we're having the same discussions.
I'm sorry, we're excited by this conversation that I have so many opinions here.
Just choose them wisely. Because we don't edit. I want to know, what is the conversation happening back in the network?
I'm sure it is, in a lot of ways. I think my husband is very equal. So I for example, had a man of honour not a maid of honour My my, my best friend is a dude right in the Netherlands and I have a guy friends and they all came over to the wedding as well. So when I first came over here, I noticed there was a real separation between men and women. Yeah, I remember the first time when I came here, so I was like, would have been 19. And I said to one of the guys I was working with so we have a beer, right? It's like, Don't you have a boyfriend? I'm like, dude, I don't want to fuck you. Like I want to be here. Are you serious? It was that was the first thing that I noticed there is a real and I still have that these days as well is that I have guy friends and that when they get a girlfriend there's difficulty or which in the Netherlands I haven't experienced. So there's a real thing about equal being equal and and that lends more so than it is here. I think there is the expectation little bit more that women they'll get pregnant and they stopped. We're out of here. I've noticed that a little bit more here than I've ever noticed at the Netherlands. However, I I'm obviously at a different age here than I was when I was living back in the Netherlands. I've lived here for more than four.
So what so what you're picking up on now is a lot different when you're when you're 18 I thought I think so. I think I'm back in stone.
Yeah. You know, like a few Yeah, I don't know. So. But I definitely notice a big difference between the relationships that women and men have here with each other. Okay, and what is men and what is woman there is a very clear separation. Like a lot of my European friends call it an Australian barbecue when you go to a party and all the men go stand together and all the women go stand together. That's not a European thing. That doesn't happen. But here it fucking almost always.
I think I've always struggled with that in the sense of Tommy and I always talk about the fact that I've never been like the Yeah, I haven't had that good boys. Like if Yeah, it's not like really a thing in the sense of like, Tommy's got his boy my like, if he was hanging out with the boys, that means something. birth, like,
don't even have it that, like, I know, other dudes do footy club stuff, like I've just got. I've got my close guy friends, but then I've got friends that have like, serious packs of main. Yeah. So
yes, you know, and I think that that's okay, what I meant before as well with getting irritated by I feel there is such an uproar about, like, feminine feminism in not in a positive way as in like, it's all the men's fault. It's like, let's, you know, we're all humans, like, let's try and solve if there is issues which are, there is let's try and solve them not making a point at a group and say it's Oh, yeah. Mike is becoming very, you know, Instagram. Aggressive,
it comes becomes a bit headlining and stuff like that. Because I just want to like, No, I think that's the that's the thing with all this stuff is it's the end of the day. I'm just like, what can we do to make things
open the conversation questions and allow also men to ask question, because some men, they've grown up with a certain there was there was a guy at work, and he put his hand not at this work would like another. Another situation. He put his hand on my shoulder when he was telling so and all of a sudden he pulled it off. He said, I'm so sorry. No, it's like, Fuck you. Sorry about that. I'm so sorry. Like, you know, that's your space. I'm like, Oh, this is always sad that we're now getting into this space that that was sexualized. No, that was just a human being friendly to another. I think it's becoming, it's a necessary conversation. I'm not saying we shouldn't just yeah, we shouldn't also blame. I don't know,
I heard a comedian last corner. So I do it all the time. I heard a comedian last night, female comedian, talking about the fear of going on radio, and she's been doing it for years. And that she started this new job. And she was like, basically scared that she would stop talking and blah, blah. And it was on a podcast called the the guilty feminist. And so you can imagine the without pushing, and so she said, the host said, Do you were you scared of them? Do you think men would feel the same way? And she said no. What about worried about being worried about coming on to a going on air? And I thought it was full on that. She said that she thinks that men die because I think men, I feel myself down. And so if you were stripping away trying to go, do you think the opposite or this other group is feeling like that? Yeah. I mean, and we're just like to humans feel me? I do. Like, yeah, and I've done a bit of righty, I'd say my best friend George land. You know, he's a successful presenter, and I see the data and fee he goes through before a buddy speech. And I say, yeah,
that question is also a little bit Wolf, because you can't judge the other gender based upon my you know, they don't get that fear. Of course they do. However, I do. Understand with talking and everything in there, there's been research on this if there is a meeting room with like five men and three women, or let's say one woman, right, and five men. If the woman speaks three times, and the men speak 10 times, they will still feel that the woman spoke the most. And that bad research is there. So I from that perspective, which I think is maybe where she was coming from, isn't it? Are you nervous that you're going to be judged?
Yeah, I think
that that is that is true. Is that judging somebody else's? Like don't men get fearful like?
Yeah, I mean, I think you have prefacing the Yeah, plant playing in that space. Like with that question, it sort of lead you to that, right, you
see where the answer is going to come. But
I think there's definitely I think the hardest thing is that some of these things divide and create doubt. And the stuff that I'm always keeping in mind is like not throwing the baby out with the bathwater in the sense of like, just because some people being pretty extreme with certain things like, my thought behind it is it's like, yes, there is unconscious bias out there. And like, we all have unconscious bias, and we don't recognise it. That's like the problem. That's, that's, that's the unconscious bit. And so I'm always like, trying to, especially working in some way, like, in rato, I was constantly and being around like, the HR team, and stuff like that you just are exposed to the things that you would never really think of. And I just think about what
kind of stuff do you mean, I think
like, it's because of the HR you're hearing about, not
just know what you just like more, what more aware of the things that people are bringing up is concerned, and you start thinking, Okay, like, maybe, you know, how I communicate or how how, like that unconscious stuff around, letting people speak and stuff like that within a meeting. And even that thing of, I'm always wondering with you know, if you hear someone on the radio, we did a, an episode, which was called Women in radio, and we're talking specifically, like one of the areas around the, you know, sometimes you'd be like, I don't like that person, because they have these qualities like they're, they're really loud and obnoxious and all that sort of thing. And sometimes I think that we think that because we think that women shouldn't have these types of traits. And so I think it's just about being aware of it.
So yeah, I agree with that. Like if a woman is very soon to become a bitch, yeah, but a man will become ambitious. Yeah. And I think that that is def and I've definitely noticed that
your teeth get over talking about this stuff like it.
I'm reading this book at the moment that says, I'm not a feminist, which is awesome to me. So I'm very interested in it, which I am a feminist. It's just not in the kind of hashtag feminist Instagram. Yeah, crap that you seeing these days, I don't feel that the majority of the women out there that are flagging, you're waving that flag are actually doing anything to make it better than just shouting noise making noise. And I don't agree with that. But I do find it interesting. I just found it very complicated. It's such a broad thing. Yeah. To talk about, you know, the whole hashtag me to move which I think is so needed and so worth it. But for example, things remember when Oprah did that talk, and everybody was raving about it, and she said, What does her beautiful like? I mean, Oprah fucking amazing, obviously. And she says, me that amazing voice says, and we will one one day we will live in a world where no girl has to say hat me to again and everybody was like, Yes. And people were talking about it the days after, and I was like, This is fucking bullshit. Like we live in a reality. Yeah, like, that is a dangerous world out there. Like Come on. There's bad people in the world. Yeah, shit will always happen. You can't just say one day we will live in a world where nobody will say me to again like that. That is not
really nice. And then it makes
me it makes me she's having a photo with Harvey Weinstein. me saying that. Oprah and Harvey just like in hands like face on each other. Our friends for you? It's like this. That's the Hollywood the Hollywood elite.
Yeah, I mean, the the annoying.
real reality when you get a billion dollars needed
but I just think that that's just sensation shit. Like, how do I politics is right now like that, that kind of saying that shit is so unrealistic. And it's blaming also, like saying that the cops are not doing their job. I mean, there's obviously that's a whole nother conversation. But you can't just there's bad people with Yeah, shit will fucking happen. Yeah, there's also going to be men beaten up. And it's also going to be men that are going to be raped and all that kind of stuff does. Now we're really
talking about how finding someone to blame for something outside of your control is like, it adds a level of power.
Well, and there's also I think, a little bit of a revenge mentality with women, which rightfully they, that's understandable. Yeah.
Like, do you think this power imbalance and I'm of course,
yeah, you know, so I think Finally, there is a time that women are able to speak up and there is a little bit of a will fuck you right now. Yeah, you know, listen to our problems, and you better fucking listen. Like that kind of mentality, I think is there which this is also the course that we need to go through. So as much as it's your it takes me a little bit. It is also understandable. I understand as well. Yeah. And also, listen, I fucking love that kind of, because, you know, with the three women speaking and I know that I speak a lot. So that is not because
I'm a woman, I just
talk a lot. And there is a point that now women are saying, Well, no, you need to listen to me. And yes, that's
how did you have husband? Now husband? How do you see when he was your boyfriend? Deal with the bloke, you know, your mates being guys and
so so? Okay, he's Australian. Yeah, yeah. It's I think Damon. Damon, I are like, honestly, in that way. So perfect for each other. Because he, he's always been so understanding, I remember. And he never had any problems with it to begin with. I think there was like, at one point, there was some friends that said to him, she has all the photos with dude on their social media. And I think then he was a little bit more for the outside world. He was like, oh, maybe people are seeing it in the wrong way. So that I remember having that conversation once with him. But he and I've had this conversation with him a lot. I remember that he always said, Every time that you become very close with a guy, you bring them home and introduce them. They're always good guys. Like he becomes friends with them. So most of my guy friends, like he got so close with all of them. So that whole group that I grew up grew up with. And they all came to wedding and united main. And they're so such mates with Damon. And
yeah, I see I had a bunch of girlfriends close girlfriends, and the learning from me from my wife. She was some of them were probably emotionally inappropriate. Right. So there might have been a reliance from the girl, not me, you know, I'm thinking, yeah, it's just my made, you know, because I can have my thinking, and it'd be clear as day to me, but maybe not to somebody else. Yeah. And so that's where I had to emotionally cut off from some relationships that then ended up saving them.
Well, you talk about, like, emotional sustenance, or whatever. It's like, Where are you getting that? From?
Yeah, I do think I can. I do think that if you've been in a relationship for as long as we have, like, I I do think you have to watch out for, like, becoming too close with friends with somebody and getting that emotional support from your friend as opposed to your partner. I think that can happen. And I think it has happened with us. And then you need to realise that that's happening, like oh, no, when something happens, I should be calling my husband, you know, like that is?
How do you course correct? Like, have you have you worked out mechanisms where or like boundaries? How do you? How do you
think it naturally happens? I think it has to do with your own relationship and where you're at in your relationship that allows that can happen. Like I'm, I'm the most monogamous person that you'll ever meet. Probably it's very Trump statement. Like, like, you know, I'm such a monogamous person. But I don't actually believe in monogamy. Like, I believe that naturally we are. I don't think that that's how humans work that they fall in love, like finding the one I don't believe in that. Yeah. But what I find so romantic about Damon and me is that we chose each other and we choose each other every time you know, we keep choosing each other. And I think naturally you will maybe meet somebody and be like, oh, there is a real attraction there. But that's also Ok. So to not see that as a threat and be like, okay, that's, that's that probably was a, you know, a possibility or something. But I choose to be with
us, which is powerful. And then when something like that happens, which is reality, seeing someone or making somebody connect with absolutely with choosing to be
and that's what I've ever met, and I find that most romantic so many times people will live in you know that romanticism like thinking that you find the one I'm like, that is such bullshit.
Yeah. And then the one that that's the power that keeps you together, but
yeah, no, it's not. It's not a magical thing. It's a it's a conscious decision that you stay together and grow together. And if there's issues because nobody's perfect, like, Fuck, I can't believe them.
But even off the meds
best day definitely, like some people would say this unromantic. But I think it is that. Because I feel the same way. Which with brain is like, this is optional. And that's like the best. The best thing is that it is optional, and like when choosing to do it, so
we're not, we're not together because of Yeah, this is it. Like, oh, this is a choice I can I choose you.
Did you? Like what sort of what do you see? Having been in the long term relationship? What has that get given you that you think that you know, that you can share in regards to like, what has been that success? What is what's the success,
like having a partner in life and, and really growing and learning together, and pushing each other to grow and learn and supporting each other in that. And Damon is eight years older than me. So for example, a recent thing that happened like I, I wasn't ready to like buy it, how's all that kind of stuff like, you know, that millennial kind of thinking of like, I'll never want to do all that crap. And that, which is totally fine. But Damon was kind of at that space, like, I really want to do this. And he was like, I want to do something in Daylesford like, you know, buy a piece of land or something and build something. And I was like, Well, you know, yeah, I'm just not really in that space yet. But he kept kind of talking about, and he kept trying to convince me to do it. And then at one point, we're in the car, and he just looked at this block of land, and he kept trying to convince me, so I call, you know, like, we could do this. One point said to him, this needs to be your decision. Because if if you convince me to do it, and I say, yes, then I will feel obligated to be involved with it. And it would become a bad thing for us, because I don't want to go every weekend to deals but I don't, maybe one of those, I'm not ready for building a house, I'm a bit nervous about it. But if you start to do it, I'll probably be inspired by you. And I will want to be a part of it, right? And then he was like, fuck it, I'm going to do it. So then he started doing it. And now it's exactly what happened, I'm getting really inspired about and now it's become this product that we're doing together, right. And we were sitting having dinner last night, and I said to him, I'm so grateful that this is I would have never done this, I would have never right now been in this position, doing this amazing project with you. And so I was like, thank you for taking me through this. And then he was like, thank you for pushing me to make my own decision. Like, which was such a cool thing.
You know, she slid the divorce papers,
you know, giving each other experience because it's probably not something that I would have ever done. And he making the decision might have not been somebody had he done, but we've given each other these opportunities. Yeah. And I said,
Yeah, I definitely feel that with travel with brain I where it's like, I'm full on like, I make quick decisions and how to crazy stuff. Whereas Bry, he's more calculated and takes time. But at the same time, she's so dedicated to things. So when she was at her last job at Suzanne, that was like, she couldn't think of leaving, she was like, if I leave, it's likely, like, what am I going to do? And what am I going to do? And then she goes to a tiger and she has been a tiger for, you know, seven or eight months. And now she's like, how can I do this without it? So it's, it's so interesting how, like, we are really adaptable to. And by having another person in your life, you can sort of help each other on that journey. And so these push and pull Yeah, which at the time at times is like, it'd be really good. If I didn't have that tension point. If I just if the person was like, Yeah, let's do it. And like we're on the same path. But then I'm sure that I would be going y to the extreme, and it will be good.
Yeah. And you get better. Like, you know how people, some part of this is another thing with with romance and the one right, so many people think, if somebody says, I'm doing something wrong, they must not fully love me for who I am, right? They must reject a part of me. And romanticism says, then that person is not the one because they don't fully accept you. I don't believe that either, like there is that I need to learn in order to become a better person. And if there is this counter that reflects with me and points out my mistakes and points out my things where I should grow then like, Wow, what a fucking gift that is. Yeah. So yeah, I'm, I'm so grateful for what I have with Damon
with with work and stuff like that. How do you keep inspired and keep interested in what you're doing?
I think that I walk work seven days, for sure. Cuz I'm always looking for inspiration and like a different way of looking at stuff. And I try to always find inspiration not in my fields, because I feel otherwise it all kind of stays a little bit the same. I think so looking outside of things. And for example, with a tiger it's a it's a it's a chocolate brand, right? But what I'm looking at more, and it's probably because it's my background, but I'm looking at fashion and the way that gets branded and the way that gets marketed because it because it's just a different way of looking at it. And and I feel that that makes something more unique or more different because you're approaching it from a totally different perspective.
It's a creative approach to something. Yeah, doing the opposite. Yeah. What you think you should do?
Yeah, yeah. Have you had any times of saying I want a complete career change or just getting over? it? Was Josh calls it the rebrand?
I think that I, I think this is what I do. This is what I enjoy doing, like creating and building and, and telling storeys and stuff like that. I think that's what I want to do. And I think that's what I always wanted to do. So it could have taken any form. But at its essence at its core, this is what I do. Yeah. But yes, it could have been something totally different. I could have gone into movies and you know, like, would have been a similar
thing, but it just, yeah,
well, it's handy when you're not fixed on the vehicle to get to. You think you want to go? Yeah, yeah, job comes up and draws all these different elements that stimulate you. And yeah, yeah.
What's the biggest difference? Like, being someone who grew up somewhere else and coming and living in a different country? What's the things that you pick up on?
day to day?
And do you feel different? Like, do you? Yeah,
I definitely do like what you said before about the discussion stuff. That's a big thing for me. Like, I tend to want to have a discussion about things. And that's not always like, I'm very passionate about stuff. And I'll be like, Ah, you know what, it's supposed to be this way. But in Holland, when you have a big opinion about something, it doesn't mean the end like somebody can still convinced you. But here they feel that you are you have a very strong opinion about something. So it's like it's infinite already. Say it's it's Yeah,
yeah. It's you doing anything with your hand, which I know.
It's like, yeah, yeah. No, it's like the only way like, Yes, I like Adam is your ultimate? Yeah, so
if I'm saying blue I def, or that she's definitely always meaning blue, which is like, no, it's fluid. Like, I might have a different
side now. But it might be different. So much the approach of a relationship good relationship. Yeah. Cuz you do with the part. I'm always arguing with me, not in a bad way. But we have discussions and
yeah. And it's honest, yeah. If you can't have a good discussion with a friend and be afraid of conflict, and
yeah, it's a good, it's a good lesson for business partnership to Josh and I are going into a business partnership, and it's being honest and open about what we think and standing for it, they may maybe change their review care more about it, they may even though I care a little bit, it's reflecting on what you're thinking, the end of the day,
it did take me a lot, it still is difficult, I have to say being here, because I language isn't just language, I can speak your language. But language is so much more than that. Right? It's like, it's your mannerisms. It's your you know, your interest is your background, you know, it's everything combined. And I do often feel a little bit lost in translation, or I feel not understood that makes sense. Which in when I came to the Netherlands, like because I hadn't been home for three years. So just for New Years, I went back home again, because we had the wedding and tonne of our friends came over there. And so there were reasons why we didn't go back. But I like I was in the train from Berlin, a first like, visit some friends in Berlin. So I was in the train, going home. And all of a sudden the loudspeaker went to Dutch, like who the middle of them is, indeed. You know, like, Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, we're, we're now driving, it's nuts. And I started to cry straightaway, yes. Because there is this real thing of like your language and being understood. And the next one sitting in this cafe, and I was just watching everybody, and I understood them. You know, there were my people as in like, their mannerisms make sense, the way they interact, like the way to the lady came to, you know, take my order. That was also Yeah, like, I understood that. And here, I, I always kind of feel like 10% 20% not myself, you know, I mean,
yeah. I mean, how does that play with creativity? Do you think?
I think there is an advantage in that a little bit. I mean, it allows you to look at getting inspiration from a lot of different aspects. Like I get a lot of seeds from Europe. And I'm not too stuck in what is going on here. I don't really know. You know, everything that's going on here, but
I feel when I travel, I have this heightened not confidence, but it's like a bit of courage. You're in another country. I'm going to be leaving here. It's like, you know, do you fit? Do you feel that and I've always thought if I moved to America, am I going to have that consistently? Do you feel a level of that
know, in the beginning, yes. And being I was like, I'm, you know, I'm different. And I think we all need a storey to tell and if you have a storey like I come from Europe, like that's a cool storey. So you kind of feel a little bit. But the longer that I'm here, I got very insecure about that. Sorry, I'm much better now. But the year before this, I was very like, Oh, you know, like, I'm not understood. I don't have real friends that really understand me that kind of stuff. So it took it took me a while to Yeah, like Be confident about who I am. That's probably already a thing that I have. But being from a different country and having that kind of lost in translation feeling.
Yeah, that was a storey gets old, like you said, even to yourself, not to others. But as you start going, Well, I'm I am from you. Is that what I am? Yeah, now I'm living here I've decided.
And friends and having you guys grown up here? Correct. So you have you known people for such a long time, the longer you people know, the more ingrained they are, and the more you can really count on them. If I'm only been here for three years, maybe I'm so bad at years, let's say three or four, whatever. It takes a really long time to find people that you truly connect with Ryan. And yeah,
so you you met diamond, what, 12 years ago, but did you were you doing long distance for a woman?
Yeah. So we so I came here for a year and a half. And then I went back to the Netherlands and then we long distance for a while. And then he came to the Netherlands. And then he lived in the Netherlands with me for four years. Wow. And then he went back and then we did a year kind of long distance. In the meantime, he asked me to marry him, which was very brilliantly done. Like he tricked me which is also
tricky. What did he do?
So he his best mate. So this was like we hadn't seen each other for like six months or something crazy. And his bad mate called me says meta, he says, I say my own name wrong.
I want to surprise Damon. So I want to buy your ticket. And you're going to come over to Australia, and I'm going to book your room in a hotel that he's doing because he's a cabinet maker, and you'll be doing the bar area. So you're come you're going in when you wake up in the morning, you're going to surprise him, right? And I was like, This is gonna be my season. Yeah, but you need to make up a storey why you can't speak to him because you're going to be in the plane flight 24 hours right? Now. Okay. So I get my group of friends together, and I and I get this car and we are standing there with our suitcases looks like, we're gonna go to Paris and like, because it's like five hours to drive to Paris, and it's five hours to fly to Dubai. And then to stop over. I'll just say I'm partying all night, right? So this whole plan I had is everything was sorted out as like I got him the best liar. The moment that he he sees me there. He's got to be like a bit here. So social, I'm so proud of myself. So I was I was planning this for like a month or more and and I eventually flew over. And I arrived at like the hotel and I go to that to check in and it's in the middle of the night, like three o'clock in the morning. And then demand says like, just go upstairs and we have a fruit basket for you. Because it's the middle of night, everything is closed. And because you come from far away like you get some fruit in order to eat right? Just
like you guys obsessed with the fruit.
Fruit. Please pick up some croissants.
So I go upstairs, and I kind of unpack some stuff, and there's a knock on the door and I'm like for basket. And I opened the door and it's Damon standing in a suit and he goes on one knee and he says, You know, I know you wanted to surprise me, but it was all my plan. For
I said afterwards, he still says that optimises still coming fruit.
Bananas can see fruit ball in a notch. And there's lots of fruit in there. So
yeah, it was amazing. He did such an amazing.
Just be scared that my wife is a really great liar.
I was actually thinking that was like, Wow, she was so comfortable lying.
It was for it was for a good cause. Right? Yeah. And the difference between being an employee and doing your own thing? Yeah. As a creative person.
signing the contract here. Yeah. And then sign knows and Lauren is right. When I gave back my contract as well. Lauren looked at it. It's like he didn't sign it such a 40 and sleep. I'm like, Oh,
yeah. Do you think that the endgame few is to work for yourself?
I always saw sorry. I was working for myself before I started here. I think I don't really see it as if I'm working for someone though. Like my passion for what I do is because I want to do that not because I'm looking for to wage if that makes sense. And that's just not I just, it more worries made it I will. It's amazing to work for aside because she's all about input, you know, output not input, and she totally understands the creative process and that you sometimes need space to just think stuff through. I don't think I could ever work for anybody that is not like that, if that makes sense. I need that space to really because in order to really create unique and different things, you need to have that space of think otherwise, you're just going to copy something else the enemy. Yeah,
that's what we were always trying to get people to trust you enough to give you the space to then go and create.
Exactly. Yeah, so yeah, so I think Yeah,
isn't? Is there a lot of people doing their own thing?
Yeah, that's my friends. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Where the Northern Lights there in Scandinavia. Yeah. My friend, my my wife's best friend lives there. And her husband was talking to me, was so curious. As to me having my own business, really is everyone works for somebody over there. And this. Everyone's holding each other down, on and off, you could do that. real ones encouraging them to get out of you know, get out and do their own thing. It's
so important, like finding the the right community. How did you how did you actually find the right people here? Yeah.
There has a few. So I have a few different groups that don't tend to some reason they're all mixed up now as well, which is, which I didn't realise. And not because of me. But just because some reason Melbourne is so small again, there was there's one group that I met through. So my school in the Netherlands had an exchange programme with our MIT. So there was a designer that came over that I got quite cold wave. So when I came here, I met up with him and I got introduced to that whole friend group. And then there was another group that I met through work. And then there was a group of Europeans that I met through all different ways, like, yeah, so it's just all kind of mix and match.
Do you find Fred, I find the friendship thing interesting, because, you know, you talk about me growing up here in some regards. I feel like I've also moved because I went from the suburbs, like Tommy can walk the streets around here. And there's people that he went to school with her around here. But a lot of the people that I went to school with around the suburbs, so it feels like, I should have done a bit of a trip. Like it feels like a different, like, I don't necessarily like it's not like I ever I've never worked with someone that I ended up like, being like, we went to high school or something together like that. Yeah, is the friendship thing. Being something that's really on your mind, you think like I always think about being an adult, and like making friends and how it's sort of a bit difficult.
It's on my mind a lot. I found here that I've had quite a bit of trouble in finding like true friends, like people that actually hang around, I found a lot. And I don't know if that's, that's not Australian, but sometimes my brain goes like, it must be an astronomy thing. I know. It's not, you know, but you know how I know it's not the same shit happens in in Holland as well. It's just that I probably put it sometimes there must be an instal anything. People can be very hot, and very like onto you, and messaging you and, and all of a sudden, there's nothing. And then you're like, Oh,
yeah, I do me.
But then all of a sudden, there again, really hot and I never know what and I'm not that type of friend. Like I'm such a loyal person. So if I'm friends with you, I'm friends with you. And I'll do everything that I can to help you
out. Well, when you grow in primary school, you're forming these close friends and then sort of so we get used to having a friendship group from very early on. Yeah, look at my coming from Sydney to Melbourne. And her worrying, you know, her being upset and not having these close friends. So it is just another thing in life that's going to take some effort, definitely and make you uncomfortable, because she's got no problem in finding friends. And but yeah, and then you think back, there's nothing like your friend true friends growing up. And I get that, like, Josh and I are fairly new friends. I think it's a
I think that's the storey that we tell ourselves that there's
nothing like a 23 year friendship.
James and you know, friend race, we've been friends forever. Yeah. And there's something in that. You just can't replace with a new friendship you can for me, I trust you a lot. Josh. That is it. Then there's that element. So who would you trust?
Yeah, person of 23
years in the fall? Yeah, you probably go to 23. You want if the trust of the trust?
Yeah, no, it's true. I think that there's definitely a that's a learning that I've had is because I am someone who like, gets really passionate becomes great friends with people really quickly. And I've seen that like drop off or even that thing that you think that you know, people like this, this weird thing where it's like, I think that like, we we've connected really well. Like it takes literally like two weeks in a workplace where you having lunch every day. And then you're like, man, we're best mates. We know everything about like, whatever. And then you realise, you know, down the track that's like a like this actually, people are really complex.
It's like not knowing the difference between your best friends, your acquaintances, and
you know, what do you say is we'd like to know that social and all that kind of stuff is such it. When isn't your friend an acquaintance? And when is
your friend and you're in each other's pockets. And so it's hard. I feel like I've got a good guys between best friends. And I've got a shitload of acquaintances. Yeah. And I think it's just from growing up around here mingling, but it's like, I kind of, you know, if I don't tell them anything that I wouldn't. Like, I know with law, I like you go to your reading the friendship, which you can get it wrong.
I've never done like, I've never done that. And I think that's probably you hurt me if anything ever done? Well, I've never really like I've never put people like I've been pretty, I feel like I'm pretty consistent. It doesn't matter who I'm sort of speaking to it like, so I will speak
the same. I don't really, when somebody has an acquaintance, I feel that it's a friend that I would do the same ship for an acquaintance and I would do for a good friend. I don't I don't feel that if
I would like help someone move who I only like, and so that's like the weirdness of it though, because I think that it's that whole like code of codependency or whatever, all the expectations that we put on people, which
I so agree with that because what what I would do for another person, you kind of in a way expect that that doesn't work anyway, you know that shit advise, like treat people how you want to be treated. expectation, you know, that's you set yourself up for failure, but get ready for disappointment because you're expecting a certain level of
input, you're waiting for the new set looking for those moments where I need your help here. Yeah, it's it's a tricky one. But you get better if you're not good, you get better at it by fucking it up? Well,
I think the thing is to like it, I don't know if he can
sing. That's what I'm saying. I don't even hang on your awareness. Now, like you thinking about you thinking like you're a very senior editor at this point that there's no better at being aware of your situation that you've never been in. And so for you entering into this, where it's like, okay, I've stuffed up there, I'll be more cautious here. And then you start maybe you don't want to go too far, I was like you, you don't trust anybody. I don't know who I can barely trust. But I think there is a level of awareness that you're gaining that the show and allowing you to get better at it.
100% and also understanding why you pull to certain people, because like your psychology is also made up. You know, like all that kind of Freud ism isn't like you trying to be, you know, solve past, you know, maybe a problem that you had with your mother or your father and you're trying to solve that issue, you know, with your friendships as well. I do feel that I look for acceptance in groups, like I want to be accepted for who I am, or I want to be invited in. And if I'm not invited in, I don't feel that I'm accepted. Right, like, so I feel I think that for a while I was pulling to people that weren't that accepting, because I was trying to fix that underlying issue rather than the people that were accepting me. I was like, Oh, yeah, they're good, man. Yeah, but I was putting effort into friendship, maybe one meant to be, because that's just my college that's trying to fix something entirely. Yeah,
I think completely didn't need to have a shitload of acquaintances like what works for me, probably won't work.
Yeah. So what I would just worry about is becoming to using that as a mechanism to try and stop me from getting hurt or something and missing out on heaps of opportunities, where it's like, because I know that I could, I could like say, yeah, I've got my close friends. But there's a part of me, which is like, maybe this person I'm speaking to now is going to be a great friend. And so it's that constant balance of, I don't want to just close off because of the possibility of getting hurt, which in some regards, is harder. It's harder to be open than it is to close off and say I've, you know, this has
to be mid ground. Yeah, you can't just close off or be open. Yeah.
I think it comes down to like self love, right? And self Exactly.
If you're good. Yeah.
If you can, if you can get some a lot of the stuff that you're talking about through yourself and the confidence in yourself and realise that like everyone's a bit fact I think that's the big learning from everyone's a bit tweaked. Everyone's a little bit fact. And it's like we're all trying to work out this shit.
Janssen we're all perfectly imperfect. Yeah,
yeah, it's very true. Now friend Muta does say that name like merits and
keep from international school.
As an American accent now what does it mean?
I always every time people say to me how you got such a beautiful is that you know what it really means. Metal
Metal is that really old woman's name metal?
metal from the sky is my English name. From there lift me
man. It's hearing other people speak on but languages is just sick. Like I've been trying to
so ugly now but I think
it's cool. Like I feel like I did German in school and the whole
mocking the gates deal.
Yeah, that's a good Josh looks like a big German Do you think Jim?
No, I think he looks more Scandinavian like
Anyway, it's a daily talk show everyone. me so we'll have to have you back on when I'm back in Melbourne. And we've got the whole studio set up and we can just regularly catch up and talk shit. Sounds good. Daily talk show one send us an email. Hi the daily talk show.com.com everyone. Bye