#139 – Cycling Maven – His next project/

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Wait a minute

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conversation, sometimes worth recording with Josh Janssen and Tommy jacket, the daily talk

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show. And we've got Mark Ferguson also known as cycling Maven, to be honest, I thought was your real name. I thought cycling Maven, you change your name to that.

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I get called Maven a lot. Dr. I'm thinking about changing my name to Maven, just Maven, how

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did how did you come up with cycling Maven?

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Well, back in the day, I was thinking, Okay, how can I get online and do this share some thoughts on cycling? And a Maven is a is a expert in a particular field who seeks to pass on knowledge to others.

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Really? Yeah, yeah.

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I'm not Jewish. But yeah, just

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thought I'd, it's pretty straightforward. You talking about cycling? You've got your YouTube channel. Is that is that where it started? That

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actually, I actually started in the late 2000s. And I started up a blog and then I realised I was a really crap writer.

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I've got a mate of mine, great designer, shit writer, I had a blog and it was just like, it looked so nice. He had the best designed website it would make me really upset when you actually read this stuff because it wouldn't make sense. So you did

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a bit of that. I had people just emailing me about spelling mistakes and just people just froth I'm telling you that you did something good

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engagement.

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So that was it. So that set so that died a miserable death and effect that went for bad that went well for about six months, and then I got a real job.

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Wait, so So you were you doing it as an actual thing? That was your job?

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Yeah. Well, I moved from Perth right to Melbourne, in the global financial crisis right at 2008. And I had no job to come to and I wanted to move to Melbourne. Right. So I thought okay, I'm going to get job when I'm here. Why? Why do you want to move to Melbourne? Just because it's close single. It's just cool. It really good coffee?

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Is that really the thing? So like, if you if you're single Melbourne is good. Yeah. Well, back then.

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Yeah.

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Well, you move the you had some success just to reset a bit. We are in a little almost like a bungalow esque of music.

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Yeah. So if you're hearing those funky, was it you thought it was called lost on chapel?

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It was called lost on chapel and I kept I've been here 5000 times. It's actually called fan on chapter found on come down. Check it out. If you live in Melbourne. Yeah,

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great coffee, enjoying a flat wash.

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It's a cool little place in South Melbourne setting myself up and south. South era. And so you're now living in Melbourne. You've got your you got your YouTube channel, boasting 45 k subs

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de Tommy the sub counter if you haven't, every

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will do is there. Do you count yourselves?

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I mean, back in the day back it back like pre 1000 Yeah, like I'd set notifications up and like g bill Jones just subscribe to your channel and be like

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click on the also

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check him out see if he's got anything going.

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And it was so the blog so sorry, I interrupted you. You were you moved from Perth to Melbourne because it coffee and you were single?

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Yeah. And just just to get a better life. Because Perth great. Don't get me wrong. Anyone from Perth listening. Love you. Yeah, but great weather. Yeah, right. But job prospects and stuff like that. It's just way better for what I do.

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So you grew up in wi and no open wi okay.

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Yep, cycling started cycling over there. Anyway, moved to Melbourne did the blog for six months in cycling, so commentary on cycling, and then realise you know what? You've got actually got to pay the bills,

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and I can't spell

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live. And I didn't finish high school.

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Tommy, we have another thing. But I don't cycle

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it. Yeah. And I don't have 45,000 subs. I've got 943

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so hard on yourself. So you, you discovered did you build a community? Did you already have a community at that point or not

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sort of through the blog or actually did build a bit of a community but but got a job and then just let it go got back into the surgical device world. And you know, the reality of just slugging it out and focusing on that. It just went by the wayside. So

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you said you got back into it. So did you What did you What did you do when you finish school? So you dropped out?

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Yes, I dropped out year 10. Actually, I my wagged so many days of the year 10 that my dad said, You've got to join the Navy of the army, or the SS. And so I said

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not even just like, because some people like Tommy became a landscape. But there was other options. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so you joined the Navy joined the Navy? Just almost six days. Did you ever get motion sick before then, like I wasn't an issue

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will see. This is an interesting question. Because all surfed for like four years before I went to the Navy so you think I'd be a shoo in. But as it turned out, I got hella sick.

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Really on my I had

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guys like, I'm not joking. seasickness is the worst feeling but if

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you boil vomited all the way to Tasmania once Yeah. And they said, and I was 17 and mom said Well, I think you just need some food. So for some reason, we thought was a good idea to eat a cheese Krinsky buffet on the Spirit of Tasmania disgusting. absolutely disgusting. So you started off by vomiting on the Navy? Yes. So we went

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we went on this. Yeah, I went on a few ships, but they're quite narrow the ships they're not like the spirit Tasmania it's a big fat Lanka, you know, chunk a hunk in the in the ocean. Yeah, we've got these narrow sort of Navy ships and they long so I roll. Anyway, first first few sessions at you like the first day is the worst right? And you've got to work. I'm there to work and sort of paint things and fix things and stuff. Like you can't when you got to face it, you're just lying down on the canvas throwing up and that that goes on when you go to see like at the ocean for two weeks, three weeks at a time for days. Four days

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I felt horrendous coming here because I tried to watch your YouTube videos while Tommy was driving and nearly vomited. I'm still feeling I've still got that throat feeling

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and you just yet you've smashed your coffee. Yeah,

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I did. Is that a bad bad idea? Well if you feel like the area and I normally drink almond milk, but I didn't want to sort of because of the friction of already recording I didn't want to rock out like get a specific room and asked for almond milk. It was just too much yeah, it wasn't so now I'm gonna shut my pants before the end of the episode. Would it be worth it?

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So you met you mentioned you work in the surgical instruments sales? Is that we say yes, yes, yes. Yes. And so you have your YouTube channel. I see everyone out there everyone's trying to go I want that to be my job. I want the YouTube and I think some people would look from the outside and look at your channel 45 k subs are these you job is what's going to pay the bill

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is a buddy billionaire

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you know it's it's funny the perceptions A lot of people think that you know bloody made it 45 k subs

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we have you on the daily talks you

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know, you know people think our God you doing so well but the truth is on YouTube and you've got a YouTube channel yourself. Yeah, Tommy. But it's, it's a slog. And if you've monetized you're not you don't make much money. You know, like I reckon. And I don't mind sharing this.

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I made a billion dollars.

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I make about 300 bucks a month from the from the advertising. It's

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not even paying for your Jasmine.

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Jasmine t shirt. I'm rocking this guy's meditation now. A boy taking the Mickey out of it.

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Now well, you were just talking before us you spent being on Jasmine, the blight without a kid is taking the Mickey out of the I saw and thought that's fashion. It looks really nice. It almost looks like the sort of dry wicking sort of the stuff that Tim Ferriss is always pushing, you know, the things that you don't have to ever wash, put it under the sink and then bring it out in your hotel room. Yeah, that that's that type of thing. Or you can just be normal human. So you try and tell us that you can't be you're not rich from YouTube,

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you're just you just don't make a living. And I tried to do that. I mean, I'd quit in quit my day job. In March 2007, he went and did the the indie pack, which I can tell you a little bit about later, but it's a rice basically across from Perth to Sydney, by Bach as fast as you can, through the centre, through the centre aisle from Perth, across the Nullarbor down through Melbourne up through their the Victorian Alps. And you've got to carry all your own stuff on your bike. But anyway, long storey but made it most of the way. And then then went overseas and try to really try to make a have a crack at this YouTube channel thing. It's just a tough gig to make money because you've got to you've got to touch up brands and stuff to get any sort of income. Yeah. Did you wait, you said you went overseas? Yeah. So bit of a storey here had a did a Kickstarter. So after the pack, I got back and thought okay, what can we do now? Yeah. And as we know, in cycling the big races of the Tour de France, the Giro d'Italia, which is the Italian version, and then you got the Walter Espana, which is the Spanish version. And I said to my followers on YouTube, I said, Look, I'll do I'll do a Kickstarter you guys pay. And I'll go over and do a series of blogs from these grand tours and tell you guys how awesome they are and where to go and where to stay. And to my surprise, I put up like 10 grand is the thing that I thought I was going to hit 50 grand guys, I chipped in over three days. Well, within three or four days, we had something like 40 grand and then over the course of the next 6060 days I think you leave a Kickstarter right? Yeah. Got me up to 50 K.

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And so you're really named pretty much

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the funny thing is like because it was the insecurities of doing it because you say the people who are like, you know, can't afford a honeymoon. So here's a GoFundMe page so we can we can go on a nice holiday get people who are pretty

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you saying they grow self indulgent ones and

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value people who who have no self awareness at all and don't realise what it was so what were the How did you reconcile it in your mind to feel like you went just taking the piss? This is a really good question.

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And this was something that came back to bite me because what I did was I offered a certain amount of things you know caps t shirts, which we all will fulfilled and it was I will bring you guys a video every day from the grand tours, you know of our bloggers just a blog plus a few other bits and pieces I can't remember you know, as I said hats and T shirts and stuff like that. Yeah, so it was about adding value and really the end of the day if you don't want to put money into what's in Kickstarter don't gonna pull you all day if you're frosting and what I'm doing you're going to put some money so

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you may be over you over engineered it You gave too much I gave too much Well,

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we we did over engineer says that balance right so people that are seasoned veteran on a spectrum Rob Ward yeah few few sessions ago and podcasts ago and he's he did a great Kickstarter business. But yeah, you can under do it one of these these people that you assign Yeah, and you can overdo it. Yeah. And by offering too much stuff, because when you get back you gotta fulfil all these orders. And that's hard. Yeah, it's man.

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So what was that like? What was the what was the storey behind that what's the learning?

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Well the learning was that we went over there and a lot of the crew that were watching my channel and we had a whole bunch because SBS don't cover the Euro to tell us that was the first race we went to yeah the Italian version SBS one covering so we had all these people coming to my channel to watch the rice we it turns out you need media rights. It costs thousands of dollars media Ross you have it

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you can just block out point a camera at the rod is Yeah, this is suede let's so I had to fill myself and Hannah and I was just hanging out.

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This is the equivalent of like not Optus not live streaming but then it's like artists streaming the World Cup but instead of having the guy that just got a couple of guys just sitting there what it's turned into goggle box is

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talking about his goggle box. This is exactly what it was. So we had a lot of flak in the first few blogs like a lot of kickback. You know my followers and not not so much even my followers. My followers were like, We know what you do, bro. It's cool. But these douchebags coming in Yeah, thinking that they're going to watch the year to tell you because SPS aren't televising it. And so that just throat fluid threw me into a flat spin ride rattled me hot. You know, we had those troll comments like I don't even know if I can. Comments on the

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segment.

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One of the comments was Hannah, Hannah. Hannah needs a Cocker ass. And that was the top voted comment. Now for those of you don't know who I am as my partner,

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now why now now? Baby Mama.

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Mama, she's the baby. She's my baby mama. Yeah, I've got a 334 month old little boys

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out. Right. And so I mean, that tells you a lot about the community that you created. Did I say top voted

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comment?

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Well, that was saying deleted it. I was saying to tell me I was saying the the thing that I like about what we're doing is we're not we don't want to go too far out of our frequency. We don't want to go to those people like is that those people there? So I guess the more viral you go, the more sort of open you are to people criticising you. Is that have you found that you've got that core community? And do you avoid like it? Do you see the negative side of going viral load going to big? I think viral?

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I'm not gonna say doesn't work for started but just talking about viral? Yeah, I think you know, you can have a viral video and pick up no extra subscribers. Yeah. So so I think aiming to be viral is is the is the main thing. But it's organic growth. Yeah, exactly what you're doing exactly what I've done. Yes. As you grow, you got more criticism, and you're really opening yourself up to criticism, and I think in video, particularly on YouTube, because we know YouTube's a place where trolls can sort of open up any account under any name. And you can or you can open up an account under my name and start trolling other people in pretenders like me, don't do it.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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Interesting. You've been doing that for ages.

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That's me always the one side.

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To get me It's annoying, because I think what it points out to is it is that the sort of the sexism of it, which is like pointing at hand it like making it about her when she's just like, sort of this small part of the the whole piece? Do you find that? Do you find that bringing in certain people into your world that they get criticised more than even you do?

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Not, not really. I mean, Hannah's been pretty has pretty well locked on the channel, where we both are, obviously, but I think with the Kickstarter, as soon as you bring money into it, as soon as people can see that you're you're hitting your straps and you're having success, then that's when a lot of jealousy comes in. Yeah. And so then people get feisty.

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Man, I think you can almost bring more value when it's not when you're not being paid for because, and you because you can also you can almost try in different areas that are dangerous, and you might win. So you might be a bit more creative.

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But then that's the conundrum right for you. But then the conundrum is you're not getting paid for it. So it's not a it's, it's hard to make a living. And then the other side of it is it's like, you sort of fucked a the way because the way that you do that you ask people for money, and then they feel like a real ownership. Or you go to brands and try and convince them that whatever tone of voice that you want to do, or the way that you want to, you know, showcase their product is the right way.

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That's exactly right. And that was the two options that we really didn't have a lot of time after the indie pack. So the indie pack took me was supposed to take, you know, four to six weeks, and we had headwinds pretty much every day in the first few days. So put us behind schedule. So we only had three weeks to sort of muster up some money to get to the Jared Italia. And so I didn't have a lot of time to approach brands. So I thought the best way to do this is the Kickstarter. In retrospect, it wasn't the best way to do it. I would advise anyone thinking about doing this to go to brands. Because, as you just said, that the people think that they've got ownership of the blog. So once you're a Kickstarter contributor, you have, you know, production rights to you know, we want to see more of this. So we found that people were doing that, more and more, but the worst thing was is because we were making these videos on YouTube from the Kickstarter funding, there were people that hadn't contributed to the Kickstarter, who were also saying we want this this this and this Yeah.

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I mean, I'm a video guy so as Josh we at our craft, I you What do you mean?

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Good question, man. I don't even know what I'm doing.

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Right? Yes, you have any video

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now I've done 600 videos now but I always just had a bit of a thing for video. I just never knew anything and I'll get on lynda.com and this was in 2014 I got on lynda.com and I did a Premiere Pro CC course you got

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it you need to do that one to it Tommy is going to be transitioning from self taught lynda.com is great. It's fantastic. I hardly

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ever get this is not an advertisement. Yeah, it should be it should be that we're going to get in touch.

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So you did this so you did that whole lynda.com lead premiere premiere and what was your first video?

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I started doing GoPros so the whole premise behind going from the blog was knowing that I couldn't ride wasn't a good rider. So then I went into making videos and I thought I've got a bit of creative flair I'll start making videos I found Casey nice Dad I don't know if anyone knows what he's a he's a V log of blogger on youtube I don't know what

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you're asking grandpa or anything like I've heard the log twice in the last two days I call a blogger yeah yeah

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yeah well it's not be log there was

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yeah as a blog No, but I did have someone site Josh when you're travelling you should log you should have a log. And it was hard for me not because she was being super super nice, but I wanted to like laugh in that moment because quite a bit yeah, maybe I would have the luck. But anyway, so you you did the whole GoPro thing you bought it you classic thing i've you know, I remember going to Fiji a few years ago and GoPros seem to be the gateway drug in a lot of ways to content creation

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yeah well GoPros back when I started with huge are insanely GoPro footage was just off the off the chart and especially to put it on a bike and rice and and I was pretty fit back then. Right so I want a couple of races with the GoPro on the front of my bike and self so pretty stoked to cut this up and put it on YouTube. So I thought okay, how can I put this on YouTube without looking like a turtle anchor? Because I'd want the rice so I thought I can do a tutorial and I'll rewrite the footage and I might get a how to run so I made this how to video on how to win a race yeah right and I didn't even know what I was talking about just talking and anyway I had like 16,000 views yeah this this video this this GoPro video I thought I'm really starting to enjoy this YouTube stuff you know? I've I'm super naive when it comes to cycling but I've seen Icarus so I I can't help but think that anyone that's winning rice is obviously like you've got a full medical team working on you and stuff like that. Is that the reality within an amateur like what what level were you playing and I will always only racing local club credits. So you know like a criterion for those that don't know it's just a it's a lap you go for like a one kilometre circuit usually a flat course. And you do it about 50 times and your race for 15 minutes and then they ring the bell with three laps to go and you and your sort of Iran sort of starts to race right yeah, but something like Icarus is where he's going have a massive mountains. Yeah, so you know a lot of those guys you know, you're at your threshold. So was when I realised man did you say it's called a crit

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criteria right here I can't hear your races with a first across the line wins not time.

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Yeah first of course so you line up with say you start the race the criteria and with you know say 60 hundred bucks 100 people and then you race around and I'm a natural born sprinter sprinting is my thing so basically what I do is I wait to the end of the road ice that ring the bell with three laps to go and then I go to the front and that's so that's my thing wrong but but there's a lot of guys who are time travellers or Hill climbers and they're quite light so they're like 60 kilos and they can just go here and say those guys laid me for death by a

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few name drops he grew up going to primary school and high school Mark French a cyclist Australian guy yet very good sprinter Yeah, very good. his thighs twice the size of your head Josh really and you're going to be gone. I don't want to

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Nigel I'm on striver sponsor that now. This isn't a sponsored ad but I actually got it was the the saddest thing of you know, the strive of review the Year in Review. Somebody pretty exciting. Mine had I think was like 14 kilometres, right here in review. But the big lesson was travel. And what I've since learned, I actually bought a Hamish Blake who have had on the podcast he was he had a spare bike and I bought the bike off him was cyclocross. And I was just going for it was either me getting a read bike ride or Hamish like my don't do that here by this one. So anyway, I bought a cyclocross it and I started using stripe and he texted me and said that I shouldn't be putting up my one colour because I was going riding to work, which was I think 1.2 kilometres and so that's what I was putting on on strategy but what I've learned was him was explaining that there's all these rules he noticed it always people looking at things and that they they're looking at your socks. They're looking at what there's all these this is a whole culture around what you wear.

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Red sock this bank is really not I'm joking.

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Right psycho like

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I would say on quantifies a ride so identifies a road cyclists but you know, I like all types of cycling, really. And that's the premise of my channel. I've done a bit of mountain biking, crashed every time I went out mountain biking, Mangia. did a little bit of cyclocross. You haven't raced cyclocross, though. I want to try that out. That's pretty cool. It's in the mud.

23:06
I saw I saw a video that you're done where I think people were like going over hay bales or like they'll just sort of carrying it. It was like I cross seem pretty slow.

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Yeah, yeah, it looks slow. But you know what on, like, when you rolling on the road, it's happy days, you can just push the pedals a little bit and you're rolling on the grass, you've got to push down 220 watts just to get anyway. Yeah. So you know, you're pushing hard. So it's a lot harder. And this is the funny thing about cycling, right? Anyone who's watched a cycling race online, you know, you look at the dude's and you'd any I Chris Roman all those guys and they like I could smash these guys. But the truth is they are pushing five 600 watts they the whole premise behind them not pulling you know, Richard heads, you know, exercise heads is they're trying to look fresh for their opponents. So

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side of the strategy, it's part of the strategy. Yeah, yeah, it's a world the cycling world. What's the appeal? I mean, it's the lycra

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unshaven legs

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what it like I can't say legs

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I've written the Bible but what

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is the appeal what's the I guess the holes the community together and just

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in all seriousness, it's a great exercise as we know is a great mental health thing. Right? So and cycling is you know, riding side by side next to a couple of mites and you know, it's not that for example, you and I sitting here face to face at the moment it's harder to sort of open up over a coffee whereas on the block Yes. And next year might you can talk about anything

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yeah, we should start doing the podcast have a bye I just done I would go Yeah. So the that when it comes to the whole fashion type of thing. I fell into the trap of unlike a cow if I'm going to if I've got the bike, I need the game. So I went and did like a Rafa purchase and bought sort of when Rafa went Rafa and so

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this the guy who gets the bike and goes and buys everything and then doesn't use it.

25:12
Hey, we haven't heard the end of the storey. Yeah, maybe I'm maybe he doesn't

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need an Instagram post of him in his life

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is critical. If you're in this in the kit. You got it at least one Instagram.

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Yeah. Did you get a sense Josh of that? can see the appeal here? Absolutely. I thought that I was getting into the community. I just didn't know all the haters were saying Josh This isn't gonna last This is you just buying shit like you normally do. You're not going to do this thing. But I went on a couple of rides and I was living in Abbotsford on the water so it was like perfect, like a great location for cycling. But I just don't it's not that I don't trust cars and stuff I don't trust myself like when I took when I would turn my head I turned the whole bike and stuff like that. So it's from a Safety Safety point of view. I was squashed it for you. Yeah, I just felt like because the appeal with Rafa was it was like they've got all these guarantees where it's like, you know, if you lose weight, you can get like a new pair for like half the price or if you crash, they would like they'll replace the I couldn't bring myself to check it out. Because I'd worn it once if it feels like one of those silly underwear hot sell.

26:28
Especially after the wearing the next Come on. Man who would even bought a second pen?

26:33
I'm sure there's a market for it on Gumtree. Can you go what the one thing that was discovering with myself through this whole journey was that I couldn't. I didn't feel comfortable just wearing normal general public clothes on a bike. I felt like if I was going to go on a short bike, I had to short ride. I had to get up where the kid? Yeah, do you have to do that? Or is it? Okay? No, you don't you don't.

27:00
You know, there's a big shift at the moment with a lot of cyclists who were kicked traditionally moving towards a more traditional style of clothing. There's a few brands actually starting up one in Melbourne. Just can't remember the name of it right now. But so So what I'm saying is there's a lot of people starting to ride around in casual clothes. Right? Now, the kids great if you're going to be racing, or you're going to be doing long rides and stuff like that. But you know, let's face it, it doesn't look right, especially with a guy and I like I'm 44 now Yeah, I don't look good. And kid

27:30
but fabulous. For 40 you say you're 44 and 44 Yeah, it upsets me so much. Well, I'm Rick that I have 27 all you know, how much of it is so you were talking before we started on CrossFit? Is that a thing that you do?

27:46
Or your CrossFit CrossFit for me was just a bit of a rest from cycling. You know, I think in the 2010 I've been cycling all my life My dad was a cyclist he was he was a good you know, he was a hitter so you know, I sort of transition from cycling from a dead but I've been doing it so many years I needed something else. And so I started lifting heavy things around white around you know, doing the CrossFit thing.

28:10
You have to sort of cycling CrossFit. You know, it's sort of in line with veganism and stuff like that is speaking to you really hadn't had a bad guy for you.

28:24
It was good now, vegan being vegan. Let's not say say vegan because vegan encompasses a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah, I did. I mean, I was I was your cheek. Che che you know, and I can honestly, I was a cheating vegan. But lollies when you said lollies that's the gelatin yes the gelatin love the jelly babies animatronic them but, but the thing is with veganism is it encompasses a lot of things, you know, get rid of your leather shoes and your leather car seats. And so like I didn't worry about that shit, right? Yeah, all I cared about was just eating plant based food. So it was health driven. You were help driven just to feel good about right. But I'm not joking. I was riding 70 K's in the morning doing 70 K's at night, every day for like, months.

29:12
What's that in an hour? So how long was it? Like 70 cases

29:15
it's a long time. It's Yeah, two and a half hours to an hour three,

29:18
nearly five or six hours a day,

29:21
I was going hardcore plus working full time job. And I felt friggin amazing. I felt absolutely amazing on a plant based diet. But the thing is with a plant based diet is you've got to eat a lot of food. So when you get decide to go plant based, you've got to eat massive amounts of fruit and vegetables.

29:41
I saw one of your videos, you're on a bike for five and a half hours and you said you ate five dates. That's all you ate for the days. I could have eaten a bit more but Jesus five days. Yeah, I mean, you can you could get through like on five o'clock a date an hour. That's fine. If you just hit like crazy.

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Sounds so you said

30:01
it is present. But I wasn't deliberately doing that. I think I just only had five nights that I picked up that morning. And that was it. I just grabbed a handful of dates. I was running like

30:09
one of your other videos was the bad? it's I think it's one of the most viewed and everyone loves a good road rage incident. Or something going on. It's happened in Brighton at the front of the Brighton bars. Yeah, it didn't

30:19
involve shame on us in a big on the road I think he's famous for Well, if I if you play devil's advocate, and which Tommy loves to do, by the way,

30:31
just saying I'm fine with cyclists, my wife on the other hand, but you know what, what's the what's the thinking around? Is their ass first name. Do you think that's really?

30:42
What I was saying? Can I jump in first to preface Tommy's question? So it just doesn't sound like a bit of a dickhead. I can say what I want to tell me so what we've discussed it before Tommy, you're in a four wheel drive, you've got someone who's on something. That's why lighter yc Hola. It feels like this is already on the road, there's a power imbalance. And I think there's ever going to be an issue where the cyclists are somehow going to be endangering.

31:11
That's like saying drivers will never be at fault. I think

31:16
it's at fault. But I think that there is that level of empathy that you have

31:20
a large majority in Australia in the world that fucking can't stand cyclists? And what is this? From a I'm not inside the cycling world? What's the thoughts of inside the cycling world looking out to those people. And I'm not saying I'm one of the devil's advocate is

31:36
a stigma between the starting off. It's the locker and the shaving the legs thing. So there's a lot of people there that sort of cracks, people that puts people on the back foot straightaway. And I think that's partially why we're seeing a lot of people sort of move into casual clothing. And I enjoy writing down I've written down here in casual clothes, you're not in my locker, I

31:54
got you Jasmine, Jasmine, Jasmine, Jasmine, Jasmine, Jasmine. Alright.

32:00
So you know, I think that's that's the number one thing, right? And then you see, there's this perception that cyclists take over the, over the over the road when you see you know, a whole bunch of cycles on the road. It's hard to pass on and stuff like that. But there's this arrogance that you know, drivers, I suppose. Look at the group like that as a collective group of people. And they're all arrogant. The truth is if I say some dickhead crashes car on the news, I don't sit there and guy look at all they look at all these dickhead drivers, all of it all of you all drivers addicted. Because the truth is, I'm a driver and my mom's a driver. And I think the problem with Cycling is that some decade goes through a red light, and every cyclists gets labelled a decade based on that

32:46
what's a minority thing right like I think if you go to the Netherlands, it's probably a different sort of

32:50
Yeah, kettle of chocolates. The person in that video that I'm talking about the girl in it said something like always y'all read Joe

32:58
which is the symbolism what

33:00
ways you're ready for your bomb read Joe. Okay.

33:04
So So Tommy's talking about a one of my videos was a couple years ago now

33:10
one of my most viewed videos but

33:12
everyone loves a good road right just said

33:14
we kind of we had a car campus really close past us and just carry on like a bit of a decade. Anyway, he was 21 year old needs me this was 19 I pulled over and it was almost a full on punch on the cheek was just throwing out some of the most wretched clothes like where's your original actually was a full bogus it's just

33:32
and so I called the whole thing on video who's just loving it? And it turns out this is one of my most viewed videos.

33:38
Yeah, happy that. Did you ever hear from them? Not

33:41
well, I was on the phone to the cops. Yeah, if I mean the power was in the driver's hands because all you need to do is turn left and run mobile. Yeah, you can't do that with a car you bounce off if you're the cyclist. That's right. So there is you know this duty of care from the from the cast

33:57
look it's this that sort of thing I love that's my one videos had most of the hits if I if I may, there's not a day that goes by where I don't have some decoded cut me off or coming to close or something. But I think at the end of the day as a sockless you just gotta brush it off it's just no biggie. I mean you know classy example is is one of my videos where I broke my wrist. We had a Korean driver driving down the opposite side of the road towards us. And we're doing 50 k an hour towards him we were lining up for the sprint so we're doing 5055 k Now am I 60 k an hour and everyone went fuck it was like not time we saw these headlights coming towards us

34:36
Jerry cuz you think like you don't think Korean driver you think someone absolutely off their face ready

34:41
facing ISIS? Yeah, so the whole bunch those 50 of us in this bunch just went Lyft right? I can wherever just to save their ass. Anyway we obviously we end up clipping wheels and things like that and paper went down I broke my wrist gunpowder off the hospital. And you know, this sort of thing I suppose is it's done out there on the road. You know, I understand when people buy box and they don't use them yeah, you know it's it's it's a dangerous environment. But again, it comes back to you know, newbies newbies like there's so many bands out there so many bands out there and and so part of my videos I want to educate these crew inhabit broad properly and how to stay abroad and how to look after

35:22
yourself, you know, kind of subcultures it can breed, you know, a certain mindset is being in the subculture. Is there any kind of negative I guess, vibes flowing around is there I get maybe protection say newbie comes on. I want to start writing. I want to try and ride down beat road, the main cycling road Melvin, is there any like surfing? Sort of like protection? You can't come in our power?

35:48
Yeah, I mean, obviously there is so they tried to classic for this ride. So newbie rider rocks up strong as an ox. So let's say you For example, strong, strong.

36:00
into I'm a sprinter.

36:01
Right. So they tried to sprinting territory,

36:04
watermelon glutes.

36:05
So you rock up to the bunch rod and you start rolling turns Yeah, with with a group that have got all their kid that were in the same kid

36:12
was that main rolling turns. So rolling, rolling around a corner,

36:16
not rolling.

36:18
Just for granted that you guys know this stuff. Rolling turns is coming to the front. Right? So you get on the front of the bunch into the wind. And everyone sits on your wheel. Okay, so you're you're doing 30% more than everyone else. You're the truck. Yeah. And then you pull off. You just want to miss that. You're the big truck. Yeah. And then you say you pull off and you got to the back and you had a wrist. Okay, guys, 30% easier. And then you come back to the front. That's rolling turns, right? Yeah. So you rock up rolling turns. But there's this whole thing on vitro that if you rock up to these groups, wrong turns they're going to make they're going to take a piss off.

36:48
Right? So no one's allowed to roll turns.

36:50
If you're inexperienced and they don't know you, they want you to piss off and sit on

36:54
that you are rolling turns kind of guy.

36:58
Now I'm definitely not I'm a sit on the back sort of guy and then when the sprint comes up, come to the front

37:03
but the interesting so but the being on the back the easy bit. Yeah. So it's more of an ego thing. If you want to go up front you're only doing that because you want to show no big truck.

37:13
It's it's a bit of an ego thing, but it's also a fitness thing. So you might rock up and you know that your training sessions you don't want to sit on the front drive and just pull the boys along for you know, five minutes. Yeah. into like, headwind shot that it's a

37:26
show often and Come on, it leads the pack though. So it's sitting the direction if they stuffed up, they giving the the signals to coming up or Yeah, so this is

37:36
a good point, right? So you're pulling turns, you're starting to fatigue. What happens if you started fatigue and they sort of clicked you know, you pull pull off and you take down the rest of the bunch you know, so that's that that's the thing they all fall they all fall it Yeah. And then that happens man happens all the time. Especially on beta right.

37:54
Tommy actually has a good surfing storey he was he had had a drone Was it the maverick Maverick pro having pro you're known as

38:05
Maverick pro

38:06
and so Tommy was worried

38:09
I shouldn't say cuz that's why I got in trouble flying it down towards the graduation road it

38:14
was in Victoria in Victoria drove got the drone out got some great footage of the swells that what you guys call it an

38:21
epic set rolling through ginormous anyway, post

38:24
post the video on Facebook with the the location and all that sort of thing. And before you know it, Tommy's got death threats

38:32
sounded effect out. This is a form of suicide. You don't know what you've done. I was entertaining.

38:39
I went to the exact same spot because I love a drone flew the drone. Down there. I had a guy come out of the water, face to face almost full on punch on. She was like you can fly drones you give away SF spots, like no death threats, but was going to try and keep and he was much bigger than they. And I was like I'm ahead of you.

39:02
Well, Tommy, Tommy did leveraged as much as he could as he always does. And he created a we talk about this. Yeah, he could. He hasn't gone through yet. He created a trailer called Sophie lakes, which is which was a series that he wanted to create, which was it was a six part series but six part series part series. Anyone out there wants it. It was involved Sufi lakes is what it was called. But then you had said you had some success. Tell me tell me ended up with a letter from the IBA say offering a couple hundred thousand dollars if you could get another

39:37
background are on board funding the process of media tv show up but it's all around that. So there's so many of these

39:42
surfing leaks.

39:44
Yeah, the subculture of surfing and that aggression that's within it. Why is it happening? Why is it happening? You

39:50
know, it's funny, you say that because there is a good going back to the cycling. And again, there is so much aggression in cycling. So this whole Beach Road that the thing that I was telling you about, even in rice, and I've been privy to it as well, because you got that adrenaline pumping. You're in the rice. Yeah, you know, people are touching wheels, and it's a high anxiety situation. And so you're constantly telling people to fuck off and get fired? Yeah. And piece off. And, and so this is this culture within cycling, same sort of thing serving

40:19
it, I think, what I sort of I because I thought about this a lot, and I was thinking about, you know, where they're at and what they're thinking. And it's beyond the surface location, I was thinking, the feelings that they get from being in the water. Maybe it's the clarity they get it's cathartic for them. Is there that sense from cycling? Is it therapeutic?

40:39
Absolutely. No, no, I mean, it's it's, you know, cycling. I think there's a big movement of people who are doing these adventure rides and stuff. And so getting out in the wilderness, you know, really channelling I mean, you think about the rise of the indie pack that I did for it, for example, right? You leave Perth, you have no support whatsoever. Everything you take is on that bike, you're allowed to pull into shops on the way and get food, obviously. But that's about it. You're not allowed to even take a Mars bar from from someone standing on the side of the road.

41:09
I have a support, like nothing, no support, no drivers or anything, because that's actually because it sounds like a great trip. But I wouldn't be I would have to be I would be a support vehicle if I needed it like a four wheel drive to sort of running ahead. And it's it's

41:23
it's

41:25
a it's a it's a barren, scary thing. So you're out there, you've done three, four days, you've got saddle sores, you

41:30
What's this? Is this what's the scary bit not a liberal? It's like, it's just that there's nothing there

41:37
was just that there's nothing there. But it's also remember at nighttime, because it's good to write at night because there's less wind, right. So I did a lot of not writing cooler. And I remember my light shining from a helmet on the side of the road. And there's all these mountains on the side of the road, and I was thinking it's just dirt man's dead. It was snakes come to the side of the road to keep warm. There are thousands of them. I'm not joking, man. There was so many mountains on the southern right,

42:03
where can you go from that like you were just because you're riding right near there,

42:08
you're riding on the seller, so there are a lot of metre away. So I remember just saying a snakes just thing. In fact, this is scary man. And I'm telling you, you get a buildup of anxiety. I remember being on the Nullarbor at one stage coming across another boat. I've been out there for two weeks by this stage, on my own, you know, catching up with people here and there, but you know, you're in an elevator, I fucking pulled over had a sleep and I remember getting up waking up. It was three in the morning pacing around in circles, pacing, and I didn't know what it was at the time. I was having a panic attack. Oh, wow, I had a full panic attack. And I was like, Well, I'm in the middle of nowhere. My mommy got it doesn't help that you've drained all of your energy and probably you're exhausted by that stage. By the time you hit the Nullarbor you are absolutely cooked you got saddle sores, your knees hurt. And so you've taken off taking drugs for New York and and stuff in my swag these and and we're racing. We're not riding across Australia. We're racing. So we're doing 300 Ks a day.

43:06
Do one thing that's interesting. So you've you've done you've gone sort of you've had the Navy thing, which I want to know more about, but you've you've done CrossFit, you've done cycling, one thing I always talk to Tommy with is I I've never had, like heaps of guy friends. I've never been like Tommy could say, Man, I'm gonna have a night out with the boys. If I said I haven't gone out with the boys. I don't know who I'd call type of thing. Now I could potentially borrow some Tommy's nights for girls and on exactly. This

43:32
is sort of casual. What about that night? She had that not at your house watching Victoria's Secret with the girls?

43:37
Yeah, that's sure I did have that sort of the Sex in the City type of stuff. No, but what's the Do you think there is an appeal to those sort of, you know, guy communities like what Tell me what it's like in the cycle. It just seems like it because I What I'm saying is the pattern of like, you've got the Navy, you've got CrossFit. You've got cycling, like you are probably the bloke his block have ever met.

44:04
You go that far. But I mean, look, I

44:08
was doing a good job, as I said that

44:10
I've ever met with shaved legs because Derek is pretty.

44:15
Oregon. You've had you've had maybe a couple of mobile IKEA blocks on your show. I reckons Yes. Couple of fitness dudes.

44:22
Yeah, yeah. Actually, Jeff, Jeff, Josh, that we had was definitely man,

44:26
I always Can I want to have a stab at answering this. There's a push. And I watched a psychologist talk about this, where women are known to be talkers, they talk through their emotions with their girlfriends. And it's almost like a bit of therapy for them. And there's any there's a push for men to talk more. And while I think there's definitely room for men to be talking more, he was saying that it's primitive to like back in the day, that the men would go out hunting, and it would be their time spent together. That is this cathartic release. And I even feel like, for me going to the gym, I've got my mate that I go to the gym with, we talk, we exert energy and

45:08
I go to a trade.

45:10
But coming together with a pack of blokes and doing something active, that was fun, I could say wolf Wolf, I've got a catch cry of the talk show, which is what is the equivalent of going out hunting back in the day and exerting the energy?

45:25
Yeah, and I think it's a high achieving thing, too. So you know, the cycling thing, you're always you know, using your mates to push to that next level of fitness, you know, and without your mates, you don't really have motivation to kick someone's ass, right? Yeah. And the same goes with CrossFit. You know, if you got a CrossFit class, and there's some dude Lyft and 110 kilos, and you're dead lifting, 100 is like buck days, I'm gonna fucking lift 110 kilos next week. Yeah. And so, you know, it's that constantly pushing you to the next level. And I think if you're that sort of person, you always want to surround yourself with people who are doing great things, and enhance while sort of always hanging out with better riders than me in Christ in in cycling. And I've always sort of gone to the good CrossFit gym,

46:06
where I can learn. And so how much of your motivation is internally driven versus externally driven? And has it changed as you've gotten older? So how much is it trying to beat your personal best versus the guy next year,

46:18
I think when I was single, so 10 years ago, it was all externally driven, right. And I was like, all about having a good rig. And so I can pick up the chicks and stuff. Now it's more internally driven, you know, where I just want to do well, and I just want to sort of hit the next baby. That's all come to a bit of a halt though with the recent birth of our little boy jack, no, sort of he's been the focus

46:40
shakes it up doesn't and that's

46:42
interesting. It's that's an interesting concept. Because that change, yeah, from you know, look at me, for example, you know, Navy cycling, CrossFit, YouTube trying to get a big YouTube channel. I mean, I'm always sort of strive to do something. And now I've got this, you know, this little dependent, this little human that I'm looking after, everything's going otherwise on,

47:00
what's the biggest change for you?

47:03
Well, I think, really, I particularly for me, the focus on jack rather than myself, which has been tough to be honest with you. Been been tough. I'm one of the 10 that get gets postnatal depression and anxiety. So one in 10 men have posted a postpartum

47:21
post. Yeah. And so none of them are that look like Yeah, what is it?

47:25
So for the last eight weeks, I've had some like severe anxiety, and a little bit of depression. I haven't felt depressed, but definitely severe anxiety coming and going. And it's been diagnosed as postpartum.

47:40
I think I said to you, Josh, it's the closest I've felt to being depressed was after I had the baby shift. But it's a massive shift. And I think

47:49
what we put it down to the doctor said, you know, with YouTube was focus on YouTube, I was, you know, doing the best that I could do with YouTube, putting out videos, almost daily cycling, and can you know, all these other things, and all of a sudden, bang, none of that? Yeah, getting fat, is I've put on like, 15 kilos. And since since my cycling does, yeah. And now I'm looking after little Barbara and sort of at his beck and call through the night.

48:13
What's the actual, what's the internal monologue that you're having in your head? about it all?

48:22
Look, you have to say, especially going through this, you know, as I said, there's a lot of people that really struggle after having a baby. And I think what you've got to remind yourself constantly is, this is the next awesome thing, having this little human and being a good example. And you know it like I can always show jack and we can reflect back on what I've done on YouTube and some of that and I'm not bloody cutie pie with 56 million buddy subscribers, but I've done something pretty awesome but I'm really proud of and but I think you've got to always remind yourself that you know, your little man or your little little brother is the next cool little project,

48:59
or almost the internal for me, internal dialogue goes because the survival mode kicks in because that's essentially what's happening is thrust it into a life that wasn't what he previously knew. And into this world of like, Did you feel a shift internally like a primitively? Like a switch turn to look after a baby like was it just automatically flow

49:22
for me the first few weeks it was it was a traumatic birth, we have Hannah. So she went 26 hours at raw women's and they were fantastic raw women's but 26 hours, the baby was sort of running side and he had his head turned. So they had to do a zero, emergency zero at one in the morning. And that, for me was one of the most traumatic things I've ever gone through in my life. And so I think there's a few things that sort of STEM they build up. But over the eight weeks of looking after jack, I was stoked. And then all the sudden I started feeling tingling in my left arm and my left leg. And I was like, Oh, this is weird. So I googled the symptoms and multiple storeys came up on Ms. And I thought I had Ms. I want to Yeah, yeah. went into this full panic about that. Dr. Google, Dr. Google man, Listen, my best advice to you guys. Stay away from Dr. Google. If you feel tingling and shit, right? Not it at the end of the day. Anxiety and stuff sort of builds up over time. And the doctor said, Look, this is all just anxiety. I got checked out and everything was fine. But he said, you know, anxiety and stuff. And this is very, very common. After you have a baby. Have you you were telling us before that you've gone from having how many coffees a day are there this is in the house and the boys they rocked up and I was having a party and I used to have five strong lattes minimum a day. Like I spent so much money on. I could have bought he bought a house.

50:45
Yeah. Well, I mean, that's you you're living in the Melbourne dream where you this is what we we had to offer and you were taking full advantage of it five coffees a day so bloody good coffee, and so did you with the you getting off coffee? And this new anxiety? Was it LinkedIn? Or did you decide to give it away because of me?

51:03
I think my anxiety was there and it sort of bubbled over. And anyone who's experienced anxiety and panic attacks, it's the worst thing in the world. I was talking about seasickness earlier. It's much much worse than seasickness. And so, I stopped having the coffees and I stopped drinking alcohol. So I haven't had a beer or a coffee in six weeks, just so that I can try to get over this anxiety and sort of feel normal again. I haven't done drugs yet. I haven't gone on to like Zoloft or anything like that yet. But, but for the most part, I'm starting to feel better. have you kept up you taught me I've really picked up on the soccer and CrossFit. So I've been back in the gym, CrossFit for four weeks now socialising back with the crew, trying to get the got off a little bit of cycling. Hot it's harder with cycling because it's winter in Melbourne is freezing. It's horrendous. Like I got up this morning to get a ride. It was four degrees. I went straight back to bed.

51:55
Even just driving that like in the morning and four degrees is hard little Limelight outside of Academy

52:02
just walking to the car. Yeah, four degrees is horrendous. It's horrendous cuz then you gotta wait five minutes for the hater to heat up.

52:07
Yeah, it's great. And so do you want to give us a description of a panic attack from your end? What does it What does it feel? Okay, so how

52:16
as I said it started because I thought I had Ms. Right? So I thought I had some neurological disease. And what happens is you think about your baby and think about who's going to bloody pay the bills. So this is where the anxiety starts. Right? And apparently, this is very common because women who a lot of women who get postnatal, they think about a disease. And I think I can't look after my baby If I die. And I say that, right? And I go, but an anxiety, a panic attack is essentially a build up in your body. It's very hard to describe, but you become completely foggy. And you start being thinking negative thoughts. Like I was googling, you know, Anthony Bourdain, suicide and suicide, things and just interest. And I found really interesting at the time, not that I would do it. Yeah. But I was thinking, these negative, negative live and I was googling the Holocaust. And, and it was bizarre. It was the most bizarre thing like now I feel fine. And I'm looking back at that and thinking that's weird. Yeah. But that's what happens with anxiety. It's a terrible thing. And people get down and they get foggy, and they lose clarity.

53:22
Can you say before the fog now? Have you gotten to that point of identifying when it's about to happen and change that loop?

53:28
Yes. So I'm at a stage now where when i when i get a panic attack, like I had a bad day yesterday, for no reason,

53:34
whatsoever. I hope it wasn't because you knew coming on the show

53:37
was a night. But I had a bad day yesterday where I felt really anxious. And inside, you know, you start your breathing techniques and things like that just to calm yourself down. But it's basically a feeling of sense of doom, is the best way to describe you feel as though everything's coming to an end. And so now you've just got to breathe, take a few deep breaths and sort of get Yeah. It's a there's a lot of information online. If anyone is experiencing this. They should google they shouldn't go I don't go to symptoms of Ms. Because then you just get crazy. But because it's a very, very rare disease, MS, particularly in men. But But definitely Google Wi Fi and I if you go to anxiety and stuff, it can't hurt you. with anxiety, the end of the day can't hurt you.

54:23
Either. You can hurt you through anxiety, right? Yeah. So you probably need to be thinking about I think that the interesting thing is, have you been much of a self help book, right? Do you get into self help books or anything like that?

54:34
Along with the writing? I can't really read not. I'm not bad. I don't mind a good read actually. But I prefer YouTube video. It's just so much easier

54:42
now. Absolutely. Creativity for you, is it? Have you been flexing that muscle? Do you think that's had any can attributing factors to feeling this way? Did definitely I think the fact that

54:53
I've backed off on the YouTube channel, I mean, I was banging at videos every day or every second day. And I think that creates it, excuse me that creativity die off has been a big problem. And, you know, lack of training, I've got it, I've got all this weight around my gut. Now, I've got you know, I've got diagnosed with a bit of fatty liver, which is easy, fatty livers is something you just get back on the training bag, when you get rid of

55:17
a diagnosed fatty liver,

55:18
are they do a blood test? Okay, they do a blood test. And yeah, I've got a little bit of fatty liver, which is, which is controls, the liver controls a lot of your hormones. So this could all be linked fatty liver and depression anxiety. And, and so you know, it's just a case of getting back on the block and, you know, making my videos again, getting back in the bog, getting into the gym, and which is what I'm doing.

55:42
We've got you if people think that, you know, people would look at your success on YouTube, you know, it's it's not as big as cutie pie, as you mentioned, but it's still very amazing that you've been able to achieve that. And now I think our that is where I want to get to, but then you say everything's relative as you sort of climbing What do you look to as the next thing for you in terms of YouTube? Or

56:06
will I want to start a big podcast? No, I'm kidding.

56:11
Yeah, I watch you guys. I've actually listened to the podcast or your podcast a while and and I love it. And I think podcasting is a great medium. Because it's more advertiser friendly. I'm YouTube, I'm enjoying YouTube, but I just don't think that's where it's going to be, particularly in the nation of cycling. So you know, for example, if you pick a niche if you're if you're a coffee YouTuber, for example, you're only ever going to have x audience. Yeah, you know what I mean? Whereas if you do something more generic, a more generic channel you know, you can grow to 5 million you know, gaming, for example, you can grow to 5 million subscribers and I but the thing is, with soccer, I don't ever think there's going to be that depth there. So I think doing a more generic for me, a podcast or something like that, where it's I can talk about anything. That's really where I'm looking at the moment, Josh,

57:02
maybe we say that the radio people are wanting to be YouTubers and youtubers wanting to be on TV. Maybe the thing is now they usually wanting to be podcasters.

57:11
Well, I think that like the top YouTubers are creating podcasts because they recognise that they can have a level of ownership of that listener base. They can they're not sort of, they're not having to worry about an algorithm, and they're able to sort of create their own path. What about wiping aside anything to do with money or brand deals or anything? Do you contribute the success you've had with your channel? to being really authentic? And I just want to create and share

57:43
the I think you've you've now that I mean, one thing with my youtube channel is I've always been just myself. I've never tried to be someone I watch YouTubers who aren't themselves. And I just think the hard work itself. You can't do 1000 videos and just pretend to be someone else.

57:58
Well, my wife said from watching send me a video eyes together. She's a seems like a lovely guy. She

58:07
beat one of the Kickstarter comments,

58:09
Kickstarter. She slagged

58:10
off your wife.

58:15
Yeah, so the, from here with it with a you know, with YouTube? Do you feel like you need to be feeding, feeding it constantly? Is it like another? Is it like, yeah,

58:26
you have to worry. It is. I mean, at the end of the day, I've started this thing I've grown it to here put a lot of work and I mean, 600 videos, is, let's say, four to six hours per video. That's, that's 1000. That's had I don't know, I didn't do well at math, say that. But that's a lot of hours rock load. And so you think I don't want to fucking just let this go and die. Right. So my mindset right now is okay, do I stay with the cycling? Do I stay with the cycling? Or do I change it to the Maven? And then I can have you guys on and we can just talk shit about anything? Yeah.

58:58
Cycling cars on if you want. Let's

59:00
start writing again. But again, it's probably a bit right.

59:05
Because Josh and I, so in the video and strategy field for clients and all of this stuff, and it's nice to hear someone who isn't leading with I'm a production expert. Yeah, it's a different perspective, this different perspective is to see what you think about what landscape YouTube and

59:23
I think the other interesting thing with what you're doing is what it reminds me of when I when I've been watching all your videos, is it has the the awesome bits of what community TV had, like 15 years ago with higher production value, where it's like, you can have I remember, I used to work on a show called rodders life back in that 15 years ago. And it was, you know, a car car people and you would go would go to a hot rod events and stuff like that. And the host would be recognised by everyone. He was sort of like this, you know, big figure within that local space, is has the community, that community element, has that sort of happened in an organic way? Has it been something that you've been deliberate in trying to create? What are the things that you do to try and to submit that?

1:00:11
Yeah, I mean, that is, that's an interesting point. Because definitely, when you're in the nation, I mean, there's positive as I said earlier, there's positives and negatives to being in a niche. So you know, 45,000 50,000 70,000 subscribers is really where it's at for what I'm doing. You never going to get 3 million subs, right? But in terms of the community stuff I rock up in if I rock up to the the Tour Down Under, and I go to a longer Hill, and we're talking me here, right long block. I'm just a regular Joe walking down the street. Yeah, I've got people queuing up to take photos with me. It's the most bizarre, I ride up the hill at world hunger. And there's thousands of cyclists there and they're all Neva, Neva, Neva, you know, taking photos running after me stuff like this. And I feel like an absolute rock star. And then I'll come back to Melbourne, and then I'm just a just general content.

1:00:59
General, it's actually

1:01:00
quite it's been quite an interesting journey. And I think the key to maintaining your audience in that situation is to is to keep that community thing going. For example, I've got a stronger group. So occasionally I'll do a video or I'll go, Joe Bloggs is kicking ass on the strata group. So

1:01:17
maybe I could maybe one of my goals could be to be in this drama group and maybe get a shot. What would I have to do? Right? Yeah, I'm happy to do some guys. I've only got a few days before I go away. Maybe I'll take the bike to Italy and do one of those be be killed or whatever the

1:01:34
good idea or run with that race and running and I'll set up a little running great. Yeah,

1:01:38
I liked it. I started off doing the D How often do you have a bit of striver etiquette? When do you put something on private versus public? If your boss so if you're in a job where you're not supposed to be writing your

1:01:51
own private private job, that's a private, it's Straub is one of those things where I know that people are going to be riding during you know, workouts. So that's, that's a great feature. And I used to use that feature a little bit. But I got to the stage where I was like, fuck it, you know, I'll do enough work for this company. If I'm gonna ride your own workouts, then so be it. I'll do the night I'll do some night out.

1:02:09
So what is your What is your job? Now you do something with surgery and say I've

1:02:13
gone back to work. So as I said, I did the YouTube channel for a year. And then I went and I thought, What's the easiest way? Because this is hard way to make money on youtube rod?

1:02:20
What sort of like what sort of revenue? Can you do like it? Because obviously, you've got the 300 bucks a month or whatever. But is it sort of how do you break it down? Is it you know, can you get five grand from a from a quad block or something like that, to sponsor you to do a thing?

1:02:34
What, what do you do, man, this whole area, and even what you guys are doing with the podcast, if you ever wanted to get brand new? Yeah, it is a it's a it's such a new area that not a lot of people know what to do. Yeah. And you can talk to people about and not a lot of people know, but I'll give an example like I was doing. You know, I might go to an event where I'll go to the like, tap Osaka event. And now pay him a pathetically five to 10 grand. Yeah, for me to be there makes it say three videos. So you can make good chunks of money. Yeah. As an influencer? No. And then so you're influencing obviously people to come and do the event next year, like I have three videos. Or you could do something where you want to put your approach in a brand. And you say, look, if you sponsor me for three months, at two grand a month, I will have your product in my videos. Yeah. every day or every second day. I'll use your product every second.

1:03:31
So you're going to them saying that?

1:03:32
Yeah, yep. Thanks. I do. I think that's like a, I think that makes a lot of sense. Even with what Tommy and i doing going into business together, there's going to be that element of, we can make a good chunk of coin just being a production company. So how can we and I guess that's the whole thing is you're selling a skill as well, people need video content. So it's that whole thing of like, well, if they just pay for the content, it just so happens that you have an audience. And there's that sort of residual order, I think is potentially exciting as

1:04:01
well, how Yeah, how, what's the not the numbers game, if you were to throw it out there like you asked 10 brands, the market

1:04:08
100, roll it just about every brand. So this is the thing that I struggle with. I'm a salesman in my surgical device role. And I always have sort of been and then when I went into selling myself to these brands, I found that really hard. Yeah. And so you almost need to employ someone to do it for you. Because I found it very hard to talk about me and how awesome I was to get money out of you.

1:04:31
You know, I'm making a video at the moment about how I'm selling myself. Yeah. And I and I look at the power in Josh and I and our partnership, where I can sell Josh. Yeah. And which is essentially selling out, which is what you're going to tell me Yeah, but there is a an Australian thing of not standing up talking about how awesome you are and how much value you can bring. Because people like sit down your fucking Lanka. Yeah, that's either.

1:04:56
And I'm in trying to explain to an old school marketing manager that this is where it's it, this is the future, this is now but you're somehow stuck in paying 10 grand for ads in magazines, cycling magazines that no one reads. Yeah. And it's like, you know, you get to the stage where you become fatigued of bringing people up to 2019.

1:05:19
Well, you've you've gone early in some regards, like I think that even I look at the landscape. And I was listening to podcasts in 2005. And you know, before it was on iTunes, and so you can get a bit sort of disenfranchised by the bullshit that is everyone talking about podcasts or YouTube because you like, bro, this happened like this has happened four times, like when cereal cereal came out. And everyone was talking about podcasting. And you said, Your eyes get so from I rolling. But I think that there is this going to be a shift, it's way longer. What I've discovered is it's like, I remember, you know, 10 years, I've got a photo from 2008, five or a beginning of 2006. Where I built I was in year 10. I was 16 years old. And I did a built a website on podcasting. I spoke pod dash casting. And I was saying like, how this was the new thing, that was the big thing that was going to change everything. And it may it may have that impact. But things take so much longer. Because there are magazines there are people who are employed to make sure that the same the oil is being added to that same legacy marketing.

1:06:35
Yeah, that's the TV

1:06:36
radio print, that's gonna change it. It's Yeah.

1:06:39
And people are, you know, they're, they're stuck in a marketing managers for these big companies that are up money. They're stuck in this, you know, they just want to come to work every day and then go home at night and see their kids and stuff. So I don't want to sort of understand these new and it's happening. It's all happening so quick. So I you know, part of the thing that I was saying earlier, you asked me one in 10, I found that most people I spoke to were keen to hand over their money and, and collaborate on some sort of brand deal. However, it was the ones that were stuck in the older crew, the marketing managers that were sort of stuck with the magazines, and I sort of still feel that people are buying these magazines, they syphon magazine, feelings on facts.

1:07:22
numbers from Facebook and online platforms effect. Yeah,

1:07:26
it's interesting. Yeah, it's interesting that, that that whole shift, and so the I think that the gent like going generic is interesting, because it's, I think that what we're trying to do with the daily talk show is that the nation is us, the nation is our perspective, our lens, and that gives us the opportunity to it's still a nation summer guys. Right? So it's almost like, I think that the biggest thing that Tommy and I have learned is people can do most things that we can do as well, they can but they can't, they asked. So it's that thing of like leading with us and it's even you know, we were talking about guests. Names, right. So when we have a guest on the podcast, do we put their name first? Or do we put in a subject like what do we put with titles? I'm sure you've had the mind factory that is selecting titles for videos.

1:08:21
And can you go too far into dissecting the shit out of everything?

1:08:25
Have you gone analytics Jenna Jenna, I'm not huge analytical because I believe that you've got to have a passion for what you do. Yeah, so that is you're doing podcasting. You've gotta love chatting to people. And if you don't love doing this shit like what you're doing right now there's no point worrying about the analytics

1:08:39
Yeah, I couldn't do hundred episodes. Yeah.

1:08:42
I mean often as I said 600 videos now if I didn't like Mike and videos and so my put my thing is why even bother looking at the stats I don't give a shit. Yeah. And so I never look at the stats I never look at the unless someone from a marketing department asked me but you know in line with what you were saying just then you guys are it You guys are the reason that your your listeners download the podcast right? And so they want to hear your your take on Adam and so I think

1:09:12
we hope

1:09:14
you've gone on to relevant Yeah, you know, they just hope that it's an interesting podcast.

1:09:18
Well, I think that and that's the distinction because there's default thinking which is okay, people are doing things a certain way so it's like people a hash tagging things a certain way or they captioning their videos this way or they're putting the guest first and what and the thing is that you have to ask why and for us the the Why is exactly that which is like it's not it we're not doing interviews we're not a Tim Ferriss show we're not like we if we lead with having cycling Maven is the number one thing people are going to be really fucking disappointed because I like you guys spoke I know because I didn't know But no, not only that, but when people you fans of you listen, there's going to be a bunch of them that are like these fuckers don't even know what that word you use like the corner it's turning rolling turn rolling TechCrunch

1:10:08
was it had nothing to do with the corner

1:10:11
corner but the cycling Maven audience are going to be fucking spewing yeah the shit that I've said

1:10:18
good maybe they weren't because we connected with you and you shared some pretty personal

1:10:22
they know that you know you fucking clueless right because he went to

1:10:27
his rap is great rappers rap has money they great but if they're not let's

1:10:32
face it a clothing are the best on the market. There's a stigma with with Rafa in that they're a bit pretentious. And a lot of the people that go buy their tickets, right? But but for the most part A lot of them are great.

1:10:45
So if I was to rebrand if I was to have another crack at this and start getting some K's on the striver join your group do all that so I need to is it cleats? Yeah you know cleats you need to be at a clip

1:10:55
and you need to shave your legs because

1:10:56
I was watching I was using just runners which I think was losing a lot a lot of pain massive could massive

1:11:01
kudos dropping

1:11:03
it also trigger the

1:11:04
anti strata. Kudos Yes.

1:11:07
Like a surfer wearing their leg strap on

1:11:09
your arm. Not only that, but I when I first bought the bike from him, I didn't know how the the the gears worked. So I was just ride riding in this crazy cat like the cadence. That's right. Yes. And been hated spinning, spinning in a lot. And not going very fast. Yeah, but slowly gotten. You work it out over

1:11:31
time. You'll get there.

1:11:32
Yeah. So So what's, what's the what's the next thing for you? Do you think like, what's the week from now? Two weeks from now, three weeks from now? It seems like this stuff is ever evolving. It's fucking changing. Because you're talking about the Anthony Bourdain thing. It wasn't that long ago that you like it that you're going through all this shit, right? Yeah, it's totally nice.

1:11:51
Well, you know, it is really that for me. It's about getting my mental health back on track and getting back into the cycling and the well and all that stuff. But I think I think also getting creative again, you know, getting back on YouTube doing my videos. As I said, I want to move to more of a generic channel so that I can just talk about anything because there's other things that interest me besides cycling. Yeah. And the other thing is I saw just a little while ago that on Instagram, you know, these platforms, you said everything's, it's evolving and changing so much. There's this new thing on Instagram that I enjoy at the IGA TV. Yeah. And so there's something else that you can do is put my videos and then what sort of a platform is this going to be now so

1:12:33
it's gonna be interesting seeing you I think, you know, spoken to you about this Tommy? I think the transitioning from having a brand and changing is one of the hardest things that you can do because everyone's going to say, You are the cycling Maven get back in back into your spot do your cycling the I remember I saw a guy who does the art of photography, and he decided to eat normally does camera reviews. He decided to have log, and it was like the world was ending was a bit yeah, it was he got he got slammed. Yeah, I think he had to do it. And an update get an apology video for for having the audacity to do a fucking vlog.

1:13:11
Yeah, and this is the thing with blogging, and I like that. So for the most part, most of my videos are blogs. And for those of you that don't know what a blog is, you know, you hold the camera, you talk about a shit to the camera, you have a you tell a storey of your diet, essentially, that's what you're trying to do. And you're just trying to keep the audience engaged for the full 10 minutes of the video, which I roughly own for 10 minutes. Most people incidentally drop out at about six minutes. Yeah, interesting. I do look at some stats.

1:13:36
Yeah. But

1:13:39
But you know, blogging. It's a funny thing. So now that I've got the kid do I show my baby Josh show my baby's face You know, when you've got a chart, it sort of changes the game a bit. And so I've got this reluctance to continually bring this camera and and show my audience my life. I did see you baby. Very cute. Very cute baby there. Thanks, Brian.

1:13:58
Yeah. But yeah, it's ever evolving of the good to see what you're doing. And that's why we want you to come back on at some point,

1:14:05
we have a friend, a friend of a friend of the show now and I think that's the difference with what we're doing too is it's not like this. Isn't this once off guest type a stick. It's about like having people on regularly when you've got your new thing and you've removed cycling from your, your brand name. It's the new year you can come out until then we'll have you on as the cycling expert. Exactly. Yeah, whatever you want to call yourself. I get the gas man. Yes.

1:14:33
That's my

1:14:34
that's my doc. Thanks for coming on. That was awesome. It's the daily talk show everyone send us emails to especially if you have questions for Maven. We're just like a Maven now. Hi, the daily talk show.com as well. We have we have stickers to which we're really excited about Yeah, we can put them on your bike. Is that a photo park? You're not put stickers on your bike? You can put them on a book. Yeah, so I've actually got one for you. Yeah, we've got this a big deal. did the math though there. They cost us about 10 cents a jacket. But anyway, let's do that off. It's a daily talk show everyone guys have a good one. Thanks for having me.