Spice girl Jordyn Evans

Tommy: Wait a minute.

Josh: Crossface, the Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett. The Daily Talk Show, Jordan Evans is in the building.

Jordyn: Hi guys, how's it going?

Josh: Good, we're really good.

Tommy: Thanks for coming.

Josh: You're, um, you're You've got a seasoning company.

Jordyn: That I do, yes.

Tommy: But you're also human.

Josh: Yeah. Amazing. Can you explain what sumac is? Do you know what sumac is?

Jordyn: It's a type of spice. It's not in my seasonings though.

Tommy: I thought he was just stuffing up turmeric.

Josh: No, 'cause I was saying, I thought that I won't use this episode to go through all the spices and wondering what they are.

Jordyn: I'm certainly not a spice expert.

Josh: Like, yeah. So how did you actually end up having a seasoning company?

Jordyn: It's pretty random to be honest. So I don't know if you guys are into meal prepping Sunday afternoon.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah, but you know, when I was back bodybuilding, I would love to be a meal prepper. I feel like the problem is that I've only gotten comfortable about, actually I'm still not even there, about eating leftovers.

Tommy: So meal prepping usually tight asses Or people on a budget or bodybuilders.

Josh: Well, healthy people.

Tommy: But no, my wife and I, we do like bulk cooking sometimes on a Sunday. It's definitely not a ritual, but yeah, definitely like when you're trying to go cheap, el cheapé, it's like flavour and healthy.

Jordyn: Yeah.

Tommy: It goes out the window. So when I was doing some bodybuilding, my version of it.

Jordyn: Bodybuilding, hey?

Tommy: Not even, it's just like training like a bodybuilder, but then still getting pissed on the weekend. So countering all my good work on the weekend.

Josh: Did you do the tan? No.

Tommy: Nah, I never did the tan, but we'd do the meal. So like a whole bunch of meals that just were very bland. And so we would use some seasoning stuff.

Josh: There you go. You like everything we're saying, we're trying to tie back into, and if you could believe it, we use seasoning and that's why you're here.

Tommy: No, but were you a bodybuilder?

Jordyn: No, I just, I didn't have a lot of time throughout the week. So kind of Sunday would come around and I'd get my chicken out, veggies out and then hop to the pantry to grab the seasoning. And at the time I was working for a drinks company called Cappi. So natural drinks company.

Tommy: I've seen them. C-A-P-P-I? One P. Is there like a, they're like a roundish bottle with a silver lid?

Jordyn: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Yeah, I don't mind those.

Jordyn: Yeah, very good.

Tommy: She's like, I don't wanna talk about this. Right there.

Josh: Ex-employer, ex-employer. Yeah, no, so go on.

Jordyn: So you're working at CAPI? CAPI, natural product, and kind of started to get familiar with preservatives and hidden nasties and started to become more conscious with reading my labels. So this particular Sunday, headed to the pantry to grab the usual, I won't say the brand, but the kind of the brand that I'd grown up with and trusted for years, the one that mum had used. And I was like, I was like, this shit tastes good. But what actually is in it? So turned the label around and kind of realised that no wonder it tasted good. There was Chicken Flavor 101 and MSG and vegetable oil and this and that. And I was like, damn, here I am going to South Melbourne Market, buying good quality chicken and veg and then essentially shaking shit on it.

Tommy: Yeah, do you know what has the most is those taco seasoning? Yeah, 100 ingredients. Yeah, for doing your burrito or taco.

Josh: Makes your tongue tingle.

Tommy: Oh my god, so salty but it tastes so good. You're right, it's like annoying that they taste so good. Yeah, and so much shit in there.

Josh: Well, I did that with Whole30, so I did Whole30, which was like a—

Tommy: I forget what the principle is.

Josh: You can't have all the nasty shit in it. It's got to be quite like you Basically fresh food, like organic when you can, all that sort of thing.

Tommy: Whole foods, 30 days.

Josh: Exactly. Is that it? Yeah, but the interesting thing, I remember that diet, they had just said that potatoes were okay. And so I remember I ate a lot of hot chips, which was really against the sort of, you know, the whole ethos of the thing. But yeah, no, looking on the back, I remember being really upset at, there was a yum chicken thing that Bree used from Costco and it was just like, it had so much sugar in it. So upsetting. So you've discovered that there's all this shit in there. So what'd you do? What was the next step?

Jordyn: So then I decided to chuck out kind of all the mass market seasonings that I had in my pantry. And I had a few dry spices left and I thought I'd experiment a little bit in the kitchen. So I always loved a seasoning simply for convenience. Like I hate, paprika and cumin are cool by themselves, but I kind of liked a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

Josh: Cumin's so strong.

Jordyn: It is strong.

Josh: I feel like it's the one thing that I can pick out, like if you've added cumin, I can be like, you've added cumin.

Jordyn: There you go.

Josh: Anyway, maybe that's me.

Tommy: He's known as the cumin guy.

Josh: The cumin guy. So you had a few spices, you tried them out.

Jordyn: Yeah, experimented in the kitchen and then kind of over time came up with some tasty blends. That I use for my meal prep. And it was honestly as simple as that.

Tommy: And then woke up next day, you got 35,000 followers on Insta. That's pretty good, well done on that.

Jordyn: Yeah.

Josh: So when did you decide that you'd actually turn it into a thing?

Jordyn: So I'd always had a bit of an entrepreneurial itch. So my grandpa owned his own business, my dad owns still his own business.

Tommy: Give it a plug.

Jordyn: Bit of a plug, Evans Plumbing.

Josh: Evans, there we go. Do we have a phone number or? I actually remember, I did actually do that. I remember when my dad had a business doing a plug on community radio. It was sort of, I was in grade 6 and they said, did you wanna say hello to anyone? And I said, oh, I'd just like to say hi to my dad at Super Trick Radiators, your radiator specialist, as they started fading down.

Tommy: And what was your grandpa's business?

Jordyn: Also a plumbing business.

Tommy: Right.

Jordyn: So I didn't wanna start a plumbing business. No, no. But yeah, always kind of had that entrepreneurial itch. And then I started at Cappy really kind of in that startup phase. So got familiar with how to kind of build a product and from A to Z, go to market with, at that time it was a drinks brand, but I kind of knew where to source a bottle from, where to source a label. And then when I started to get feedback from family and friends that, this was some tasty shit and it didn't contain shit, I was like, oh, maybe there's a market for some all-natural seasonings. So typical millennial in me was like, I'm gonna launch a business and launch an Instagram account and an online store.

Josh: That's what you gotta have first.

Jordyn: Hashtag awesome.

Tommy: Josh goes before he even thinks about the business, the Insta.

Josh: My favourite is, so, On a quick side, I've got an Instagram and I'm currently bidding on the .com for a company. I'm happy to announce it today.

Jordyn: What is it?

Josh: You've heard about it.

Tommy: Oh yeah.

Josh: Planeface.

Tommy: Yeah, which we'll go there later, but 'cause Josh will make this about him the whole time. I love it.

Josh: Planeface, P-L-A-I-N-E-F-A-C-E. And the idea is when you go on a plane, you know how you get a bit dehydrated? It's a mask specifically designed to wear on a plane. Anyway.

Tommy: And how much did you make?

Jordyn: Is that gonna be a side hustle?

Josh: Well, it was going to be a side hustle, but then I spoke to Zoe Foster-Blake about it and said, "Hey, what do you think of this idea?" And she was like, 'cause my initial idea was you would get a pack of throughout the flight, you'd have different masks. And she said, "You don't need to wear different masks." Your face will come off by the end of it. Yeah, I was sort of overdoing it with the masks. And 'cause the original idea was that you'd go from, It was sort of a summer to winter or winter to summer pack. So depending on where you're flying, you'd be able to pick the season and you'd wear different masks. But apparently I'd overcomplicated it.

Tommy: Which is great though, 'cause there's an excitement in that. I think a lot of us have those moments where like, an idea, fuck, there's a business, here's the Instagram. But then what's the difference between taking it now to where you are? What was the next step after going, fuck, this is good?

Jordyn: Yeah, so, I guess honestly it was just a bit of a side hustle to test the waters. I had no business experience or knowledge really. So I kind of recruited my sister and her husband at the time that, you know, chartered accountants, know their figures, know their numbers, and kind of was like, "Hey guys, do you wanna be on this spice journey with me?" And so they kind of really helped me like set up the backend of the business. But yeah, it honestly just really started organically. I realised that I didn't wanna be another seasoning company with a chilli or a garlic on the front of the label. So I decided to call my seasoning company Mingle and personify each seasoning product after a different girl's name that you could mingle with every night of the week.

Josh: Yeah.

Jordyn: And yeah, I really was kind of trying to target that health-conscious female aged 25 to 45 like myself. And it kind of just took off. People kind of really resonated with mingling in the kitchen and it ended up being more than just tasty seasonings. It was kind of this feeling and this connection that people were kind of, I guess building with my product and that experience of transforming their meals.

Tommy: How much was that planned versus kind of grew organically?

Jordyn: I think I just constantly put myself in the customer's shoes and be like, what kind of brand would resonate with me? So it sounds kind of selfish, but I was like creating a brand for myself.

Josh: That's like scratching your own itch is like one of the best ways to start a business, right?

Tommy: And it's kind of like Josh and I making videos, we'd make the ones that we are super interested in and the storeys resonate highly with us and maybe that will translate to others.

Josh: How much time, 'cause I could get really into the brand stuff, hence Plainface, which will probably never ever be a product, let's be honest, won't be a product.

Jordyn: I know, I'm just picturing myself in economy and with some dude next to me, fallen asleep and then he wakes up and I've got some mask on my face.

Josh: Well, literally, so part of the, and this was, the big selling point. This was the, the bit that I was going to— that was going to sort of launch Planeface was I was going to wear, or I was going to get someone to wear the mask on a flight and have some sort of issue from a security point of view where the plane— where they're like, you're going to have to take it off. And basically then would be in the newspaper where Virgin Australia or Qantas would have to come out and say, can you wear face masks on a plane? And when they said yes, they'd be like, CEO and founder Josh Janson from Plainface says this is a really good win. Awesome. So there was definitely—

Jordyn: Some guerrilla marketing.

Josh: Guerrilla marketing. It sort of requires the federal police, which isn't great. You don't wanna have to worry about that. So I'm obsessed, I get really into the brand type stuff. How do you balance brand versus what you're actually doing from a product point of view, and where do you, where do you actually spend your time?

Jordyn: Well, I think first thing the product had to taste great. Like if it tastes like shit, but it's a really good brand, like there's only so far you can go with that. As much as the brand was still really important to me, I kind of, I didn't spend that much time on it. So I'm currently 2 years in being like, okay, now it's time to take 2 steps back to take 10 Forward and kind of really sit down and map out methodically where the brand's going.

Josh: Yeah, how does it work? Do you just go and like going from a residential kitchen where you're just making something fun to a commercial sort of thing? Like, are you going out? Like, how do you find such big buckets of spice?

Jordyn: Yeah, so it started off really Breaking Bad style, like, you know, had the garlic on the shoulder and I swear my neighbours thought I was, you know, doing some drug trafficking, like, and just blending it, blending it at home. And then that got too much, so upgraded to Nan's granny flat.

Josh: Great, brilliant.

Jordyn: Yeah, and then that got too much, so then we started outsourcing to like a third-party manufacturer. Yeah, it's kind of where all the brands blend all their spices. So just knocked on a few doors and shared the recipe and the rest is history.

Tommy: Interesting, did you hear about that person? I think it was in Oakleigh, an old person, I don't know if man or woman, but I'm picturing an old Greek guy cooking and roasting all these peppers and the whole suburb got like, shut down. They're like, we don't know what's happening. Everyone can't go outside because their eyes are watering. Everyone's coughing. And this dude I'm imagining is just roasting all these peppers and the whole suburb, that's all we got.

Josh: That's a lockdown. That's crazy.

Tommy: Did it ever get to like that when you were at home? Just like, oh my God.

Jordyn: Oh yeah, no, most of my clothes probably still smell like cumin and paprika.

Tommy: I knew it when you walked in. Even the turmeric guy over here, no, cumin.

Josh: No, sumac. Oh no, I smell the cumin, but I'm interested in sumac. And so what's the actual process in regards to, is there a big jump or is it pretty simple from like, okay, this is like doing a small portion to a big one, is it just like timesing everything by 10?

Jordyn: Yeah, pretty much. It's so funny that a lot of people are like, how'd you do it? And I'm like, I'm just blending spices together and putting it in a bottle.

Tommy: Well, when you get trying to get them consistent, 'cause you don't want every bottle tasting massively different. So I guess that's a factor. I'd be horrible, my math is shit ass. And so it would be equations to try and make sure that everything is specific.

Jordyn: Yeah, a good old Excel spreadsheet and times 20 or yeah, it just depends. What I'm making.

Josh: And so where do you sell Mingle Seasoning at the moment?

Jordyn: So it started off just as an online store, and then kind of 6 months in, we had like a distributor that services health food stores and independent supermarkets contact us. And then, yeah, so to date, we're stocked in about 400 stockists around Australia.

Josh: Oh, wow.

Jordyn: Yeah.

Josh: That's crazy. And so what's the, and when you start getting from where you were to getting that amount of stock, what is the change? What do you actually, what changes from an operational point of view?

Jordyn: So just recently I did have to move manufacturers really to accommodate for the amount of seasonings that I was selling. And I also recently went through like a food incubator programme with Chobani yoghurt that really helped me kind of understand scaling a food brand, what's required from a manufacturing front in terms of spec sheets and quality control and kind of taking that next leap.

Tommy: They got me in with the $1 sachets of yogurt, then they upped the price. I can't find it for $1 anymore.

Josh: Really? I'm sure 7-Eleven will do that with you probably actually.

Tommy: Yeah, they will, yeah. Now it's $3.

Josh: So that's interesting. Chobani, is that how you say it? Chobani.

Jordyn: Chobani, yeah.

Josh: Chobani.

Tommy: I used to say Chobani.

Jordyn: Where does that come from?

Tommy: I don't know, it sounded fancier.

Josh: Yeah, no, this is the problem hanging out with Tommy, you start saying stuff in a weird way. So Chobani, so they do an incubator. Like what do they need from you? What's the deal?

Jordyn: There was no deal, which is really weird. I was like, what's the catch, guys?

Tommy: Yeah, what's the incentive for them?

Josh: I guess supporting people.

Jordyn: Yeah, yeah. So the founder of Chobani is like an absolute legend.

Josh: He gave like a bunch of shares, didn't he do something crazy?

Jordyn: To his employees. Yeah, yeah. And honestly—

Tommy: It's not happening with our company, Josh.

Josh: Exactly, all our employees, they're all— no, we'll give all of our employees 50%. Yeah, every single one of them. Yeah, so tell us what that was like and how did you get involved in the Chobani Incubator?

Jordyn: So Chobani founder really wanted to, still wants to give back to food entrepreneurs and share his learnings. And if I guess he can help us along the journey and not fuck up as much, then yeah, that's kind of what he intended to do. So applied for the programme and there were I think 5 food companies that got mentored for like 4 months. And it really, excuse me, helped kind of become aware of how to scale up a food brand.

Josh: Did you, when you were going into it, do you think about what Mingle could be more than seasoning? Could you do like, I know that with Thank You, like, you know, Thank You, water and then they're like, oh, fuck, we don't wanna just do water, we wanna do all this sort of stuff. Have you thought about actually I wanna be doing all of this other stuff and how do you reconcile that from a brand point of view?

Jordyn: Yeah, it's a tricky one. I am quite the dreamer and I do sometimes struggle with focus. So I definitely have aspirations for Mingle to be more than just a seasoning brand. And I guess my mission is really to like educate people about the nasties that are in food. And I think the reason why I started it was really the frustration that mass market brands were kind of setting this benchmark of what was acceptable. And I was like, this shit isn't acceptable. And people—

Josh: What was that benchmark? What did it look like? What was some of the shitty stuff that they accepted that you don't?

Jordyn: I just don't accept, you know, the hidden nasties in food.

Josh: So you would hate the secret herbs and spices 'cause they're—

Tommy: KFC?

Jordyn: KFC.

Josh: Well, no, I had it like, because you are sort of the only spice expert that we've had on.

Jordyn: I'm really not a spice expert.

Josh: Well, you're the closest thing we've had, so.

Jordyn: I'll take that title then.

Josh: Do you know anything about the secret herbs and spices? Specifically the question that I've always wondered is what happens with people with allergies? How do you, if you're not to know what the secret herbs and spices are.

Tommy: So if it's a secret, the recipe, you just don't eat it.

Josh: No, but what, so if I've got a nut allergy, how do I know that there's no nuts in the secret herbs and spices?

Tommy: 'Cause you're not giving it away.

Josh: 'Cause it's not a herbs or spice, I get it, all right. That is true. You don't have an answer though, do you?

Tommy: What's the actual nasty, like what's the worst one that people are putting in? MSG we know.

Josh: MSG is okay though, is it or no?

Jordyn: It's kind of controversial at the moment. Is it good? Is it bad?

Josh: It's like a bit like salt, no? I have no idea. I just remember in science they did this thing, is it umami? Is that the thing that, what's the thing that—

Jordyn: Oh, the Japanese.

Josh: No, I thought that there's a specific taste that I, like I didn't really pay attention in science, but there was like another taste that we had, which was like MSG, like you could taste MSG. I'm out of my depth. Yeah, so the nasty, so Tommy mentioned MSG.

Jordyn: I think the underlying thing is just having confidence with what you're consuming.

Tommy: And I think, Well, I eat my KFC pretty confidently. So, is that stopping any of that?

Josh: What does it actually look like though? Like what should I look out on the back?

Jordyn: So there's quite a few hidden sugars in a lot of the seasonings, artificial flavors, colors, vegetable oil, MSG, high amounts of like refined white table salt.

Josh: Okay, how do they hide the sugars? Is it still on the pack?

Jordyn: It flat out says, yeah, Yeah, sugar.

Josh: Okay, sugar.

Jordyn: But I think people just assume seasonings are healthy and so don't really consciously look. And also, you know what, if it tastes great, people don't really think twice, but—

Tommy: It's pretty shit in McDonald's, but people are still eating it.

Josh: Well, I think like it's— I remember being in New York and this guy had some— I was trying to be healthy and he was giving out free samples of tea. And I said, "Is there any—" "Not sugar, sweeteners, any sweeteners in it?" He said, "Oh, just some organic cane." Organic cane, go fuck yourself, bro, it's sugar, stop trying to trick me. Organic sugar? Yeah, organic, he called it organic cane, didn't say the S word, but I was just like, this is the reason why I was like so overweight was because, like not specifically 'cause I was just drinking tea from this one guy, I'm sure there was a lot of others, But sugar is the devil, I reckon. Like, in regards to like, if I have anything that's sweet, it just sets me off on this crazy path of self-destruction.

Tommy: All the sauces and things like that, I always look and try and find the one with the least ingredients. So a product with the least ingredients that then doesn't have sugar in it, and it's probably the safer bet than going the one with hundreds of ingredients. And that's when I'm being still being naughty. So I guess if you can, you know, like, I'm— and I, I look at this around Mexican food, Mexican sauces and marinades and things like that. They all just have such crap in them. And I think we've started being more conscious about this stuff. Have you seen like a, a rise in the interest in a product like yours? And with the education people are going through about read the labels Yeah, yeah, I guess these brands have been around for like 50+ years.

Jordyn: So I definitely have quite the task to— Take them down. Yeah, take those bad boys down, but, and convert, I guess, that mass consumer. But yeah, I think certainly people are becoming more conscious of what's in their food and yeah, I guess time will tell.

Josh: Do you think that I could, I, you know, with your different flavors, could I look at the back of your, what's the glass thing called? What's it, a bottle? A bottle, would you call it a bottle of spice? A shaker, isn't it? A shaker. If I turn the shaker around and I just got the ingredients out that you'd written on there, could I basically emulate your seasoning through doing that?

Jordyn: Yeah, yep. Competitive edge, watch out.

Josh: No, but I think that's good, right? Like that's what you want. You wanna be able to, Like it's a convenience product really, isn't it? And it's like, so me trying to like have a full spice rack all the time is too hard. Like I'll just, so many times we've gone to make something and we're like, we don't have sumac. Specifically the sumac thing is a good one. You never need sumac. But no, the reason I bring up sumac is because there's only one dish I do, which is a slow cooked lamb. And it uses like half a container of sumac. It's like a Middle Eastern type of thing. But I'm always stuck where it's like I've promised friends that I'm cooking this thing and then I'm like, we don't have sumac, Woolworths don't have it, the Asian grocer doesn't have it and there's a panic to try and find sumac in Melbourne. Watch out. But yeah, so is there a need to create an edge or do you think convenience is just enough?

Jordyn: I honestly think convenience is enough. And it's funny because I think you've hit the nail on the head that I, for the last 2 years, have kind of really been telling people what I do. Like I have a range of seasonings things that have no nasties. But over time I've realised this convenience element of people don't fucking wanna measure out their spices. And when it's 6 o'clock, the thought of what's for dinner is the bane of everyone's existence. So I guess I'm really trying to tap into that convenience and all you need to do is shake it and it transforms your meal.

Josh: How much you meant to use? How much you meant to use of spices? Do people tend to over-spice, under-spice? Are you meant to put it on the raw chicken and then cook it? Are you meant to add as you go? What's it like? I literally use, as I said in email, I'm a big baby man and I need to grow up because I just use Uber Eats all the time. So, what's the deal? Like, how— What's the best way to use it? Should I even treat it like some sort of Texas rub where I put it on the night before? What do you recommend?

Jordyn: I recommend before you cook it. So simply just shake. I love a shake and bake. So shake it on your protein, on your veg, in the oven, on the frying pan, and you're good as gold.

Tommy: And it's honestly as simple as that. I think Josh, you'll have the bit covered where you actually purchase Jordan's Spices, but the cooking bit is what we need to work on. The actual spending the time cooking, 'cause cooking can be fucking annoying.

Josh: Yeah, well, just the cleanup. That's the problem that I have is I just make such a mess. And that's like the spice thing is the problem where it's like, having it in one bottle, so it's like eliminating the necessary things that I'm having to use.

Jordyn: Sorry, you going? Oh no, I was just gonna say like a tablespoon of this and a tablespoon of that and it, yeah.

Josh: And I get creative and I've fucked up so many meals.

Jordyn: Yeah, so that's the issue as well is like people get really creative and then by the end their meal tastes like shit.

Josh: Mince garlic, minced garlic is so fucking strong. What, too much? Yeah, I remember like making guacamole where I got like a tablespoon of minced garlic and put it in. It was just like, it was like making people teary. It was really bad.

Tommy: So I've always thought around having a brand, like, so you've got your business, give it a name, but then it's like injecting personality. Do you front up yourself? Are you putting yourself there or are you trying to craft something? What's the approach been for you?

Jordyn: It's been a funny journey. So I think I've owned Mingle for 2 years and I would probably say only in the last like 3 or 4 months I've really started to put myself out there. So I felt like the brand had enough personality with the product, with the communication that I didn't really need to be front and center. And I think also that in that social media environment, I just knew that, you know, posing with a crop top after my yoga class and like standing at a cafe, taking a picture of my acai bowl was just like not my vibe. And so yeah, I kind of have a separate identity away from Mingle and haven't really been like, hey, I'm the Mingle Spice Girl.

Tommy: But you said you're coming in now. I'm coming in now, yeah. So that's your last one, the acai bowl after yoga?

Jordyn: Is your last picture? No, I've started to put myself out there, but I've realised that it's the raw, honest, storeys that are really resonating with people. So I have started an Instagram account, very early days, but trying to share the ups and downs of how it is to run a company rather than just all the flashy shit and kind of how amazing is my life, but you know, at 10:00 PM when I'm packing boxes still, like there is, yeah, this I guess fantasy and reality with this social media world.

Josh: Is there something a bit annoying about having to, you know, brand yourself as the Spice Girl or this sort of single sort of, 'cause I realised that we spent like 28 minutes talking about spices and there's so much more to you and stuff that you've done. Do you see that as a challenge where it's like, actually guys, I've got so much more to offer? 'Cause it is, for whatever reason, I don't know what, maybe it's 'cause it's not a tech company. Like it's not like when you're talking about tech or something like that, there's all these, areas which we naturally go, whereas like when we talk about a physical product, it's even with Siam, with Hey Tiger, you can get obsessed on like chocolate and all that sort of thing. Is that a frustration or something you think about?

Jordyn: Yeah, yeah, I probably would say that, that I've kind of been winging it for the last 2 years. And yeah, I would probably say I'm a lot more than just spices, but it's, you do get kind of into that dangerous territory of being associated with your business and that becoming a huge part of your identity. So I've tried my best to separate it and yeah.

Tommy: Well, so the reality is like your dad and your grandpa had their own businesses. It's a bit scary. Like there's a lot of shit, comfort in working for somebody. And then did you grow up looking? 'Cause I remember looking at my dad who had his own business. It's like he wasn't ever that worried. Not that I saw. About money coming in. So there is that element of you need to put trust in what you're doing. Did you learn that stuff from your dad?

Jordyn: Yeah, certainly. And I think my dad still like works his butt off and I kind of have just realised like business is hard work and it's grit and it's kind of getting your hands dirty. And I think it's a long-term gain. Game and it'll eventually pay off. So you're doing MAP.

Josh: What is that? So yeah, what is MAP about? I know a little bit about it. We've had emails from— Amap? No, MAP. Melbourne Accelerator Program.

Jordyn: Yeah, through Melbourne Uni. Oh, cool. Yeah.

Josh: So explain, yeah, what are you doing at MAP and what does it mean when your business, like, gets involved in MAP? How does that all work?

Jordyn: Yeah, so MAP is an accelerator program. So every year Melbourne Uni supports 10 startups to help accelerate their business. And applying for that program, I had major imposter syndrome 'cause there are some crazy-ass entrepreneurs, tech startups in that space. And I was like, who am I? I'm just this spice girl that blends some spices that Josh could probably create himself.

Tommy: And you know, he already thinks he can.

Jordyn: Yeah, watch out, there'll be a seasoning brand called probably Single launching.

Josh: Yeah, no, I've just got, yeah, the Oodie Reeves seasoning, plain spice. Use them on a plane. Actually, that's a great, yeah, it comes with the plain face. Yeah, I've got a lot of ideas, a lot of ideas. Yeah, so you've, What was the actual process? What sort of information do they want to be able to back you in?

Jordyn: So I had to pitch in front of like 50 people. That was the first round. And it was like a 3-minute pitch. It was timed and I'm not good with time constraints. It was like, hi, my name's Jordan. I'm the founder of Mingle Seasoning. Ah! So yeah, you basically had to pitch the problem that you were solving the traction that you'd had to date, the team. I was like, there was just a picture of me. With your acai bowl. And then second round was meeting like a 45-minute interview. Were you shitting yourself throughout this whole thing or you're pretty good? No, I was shitting myself. Yeah. But I also was like, you have to be in it to win it. Like I think that's what I've realised that you've got to put yourself out there and give it a go. Like what did I have to lose? And then third round was with some like heavy hitter investors where they kind of like, it's like Shark Tank style. Really? Yeah. No cameras? No cameras, but they were like, what's your cost per acquisition? And like, what's your 5-year plan? And— It's a good process. Yeah, you're rushing this and you're not focused. And yeah, but it was a great experience.

Tommy: How much of that stuff had you actually thought about?

Jordyn: Most of it I'd thought about, but they also were kind of calling me out on my shit as well. Like I'd recently pitched to Woolworths. And I think it was kind of a goal of mine to get into a retail store, but I was, let's be honest, I was trying to take a leap instead of the next step. And one of the investors kind of called me out and was like, 'You currently don't have a team. Like you need to slowly build this business and I think you're rushing going to Woolworths.' And she was right, yeah. How do you do a food product?

Josh: So you started pretty much on e-com, was that right?

Jordyn: Started on e-com, yeah.

Josh: What's the details around doing a food type product in the e-com space in the sense of what do people want? Like are they gonna, like do people tend to, buy once and then they're loyal? What's some of the information that you have on that sort of thing?

Tommy: Just for Josh's business. Yeah, exactly.

Josh: Well, Plain Seasoning, I need to work out all these details.

Jordyn: Lots of tasty pictures. I think inspiration, like people wanna see tasty food and like how they can use the product in kind of an everyday cooking context. And then I guess in a digital context, it's all about those, those funnels and retargeting and getting the customers back to purchase more.

Tommy: Get 'em when they're weak. And there's 5 PM, almost at 6, do I need spices?

Josh: Yes. And clearly, and clearly like you've created something that a lot of people are identifying has so much value, like all of these incubators that you're getting involved with, what has been the lesson? 'Cause I guess you'd sort of been operating for like over a year before you started going into some of those? Like what did you learn on the other side of, you know, doing those pitches that you may have been sort of not thinking about?

Jordyn: I guess focus. I think focus was like the big thing that, yeah, implementing from A to Z what I'm set out to do and not being blindsided by, you know, a shiny carrot or, Like we all have great ideas, but it really comes down to executing things and getting shit done. And so I'm a great talker, I'm a great pitcher, I can sell the dream, but at the end of the day, like numbers. It's the numbers. Yeah, it's the numbers, it's the action. And that's what's gonna, I guess, keep my business alive.

Tommy: Which is the reality nowadays you see people are seeing people with lots of followers on Instagram that might have a product, but if the business might not actually be doing any good if they're not thinking about this stuff. You know, like you've got 35,000 and it sounds like you've actually got your seasonings in lots of stores, so it's like you need both, you can't just have one or the other. I know you'd probably be better if you had the other of actually understanding the business side, or do you need both? What do you think?

Jordyn: No, I definitely think you need both. Like you need those fundamental essential elements of of business, and I've really been trying to implement this lean startup model. So I definitely, like, it's so easy to scroll Instagram and be like, oh, that person has a flashy office and this and that. But like, you know, when you're a startup business, like, let's keep it lean. Like, for the first, once I quit my job, for the first 4 months I was working out of public libraries, 'cause I was like, let's just keep the overheads really damn low. Free WiFi. Free Wi-Fi, like sitting next to Bob who's studying for VCE, like just—

Tommy: How committed is Bob? VCE, fuck.

Josh: I like the name choice. I was expecting Bob to be older for being VCE. Yeah, no, bad choice. No Rob. No Rob, Robbie. Robbie studying VCE. And so what if you had to spend money, where do you think you can't sort of go wrong spending your money? Is there an area where it's like actually like we can't be tight in this area?

Jordyn: Yeah, so I'm kind of there right now. So courtesy of the MAP program, there was some funds up for grabs. And so now it's kind of, I need to invest in a staff member to kind of help me continue to grow this. 'Cause at the moment I'm a jack of all trades and probably not, a master of none. And also, you know, things like this, doing a podcast with two legends, but like currently— Thank you, thank you.

Tommy: First time I've been called a legend on the Instagram.

Josh: We got mentioned as a model, like what did Jeff Jowett say? He said something really nice. Gucci models walking in, Gucci models. Gucci models, never had that in Melbourne.

Tommy: Melbourne fashion.

Josh: This is why we do it. Justice. This is why we do it. And yeah, go on, sorry.

Jordyn: I was just gonna say that currently no one's working on my business right now. Yeah. So yeah, I kinda need to—

Josh: Same with us, by the way.

Jordyn: Yeah, so I really need to, I think, invest in people and realise that I can't do everything and I can't be good at everything. So getting the right people on board, but it's scary.

Josh: It's like— It's a whole salary. You don't realise how, like, for so long I ran my business as a single salary, like a good salary. I'm like, yeah, man, I'm doing well. But it's like, I'm literally just me. And as soon as I go on a holiday, it's all over. Who do you hire first? What sort of area are you looking at hiring?

Jordyn: In? Um, so I've definitely been going back and forth, and originally I was like, it's a salesperson, um, because I need to continue to grow my business. Um, and now at the— now I'm at the point I've written the position description that I— it's going to be someone more in the operation side of things to help me kind of run the day-to-day, um, side of the business so that I actually can go out and be that sales chick.

Josh: Yeah. And how do you even, like this is something Tommy and I talk about a lot, is forecasting and how fucking dumb it is in some regards where it's like, oh, all right, well, we have this amount of listeners on the daily talk show, so we'll times it by 2 and that's how many we're gonna get. And we both know that we're just bullshitting. Yeah. How do you forecast without just being a massive bullshitter? Or do you just embrace the fact that you're a bit of a bullshitter? Like, how do you work out, like, is a good seasoning business a $5 million a year business? Is it a $2 million? Like, how do you work that sort of stuff out?

Jordyn: Look, I'm still working it out, so I'll let you know. But I kind of am working like month on month. So how many new accounts do I have to get And I haven't, to be honest, really mapped out where the end goal is. But if I can live a comfortable life and continue to grow year on year, then I'm a pretty happy camper.

Tommy: Do you think it's important though to find some, you said like the end, you don't know where that is, 'cause there probably is no end other than death. Fuck, I took that deep. Yeah, it's gone real dark. But thinking ahead, just coming up with one place, destination, maybe it is. 'Cause it will change when you get there. So it's like, hey, do you think it's actually important to come—

Josh: Yeah, do you think, is it lifestyle? Are you thinking about like, this is the lifestyle I want, or these are the types of customers I want, or this is the impact? Like, what is the actual, other than revenue, what's the metric that you're using, do you think?

Jordyn: For me, it's impact. It's like, I get so excited when, you know, a mom emails me going, "Hey, my kids now eat veggies," or like, "I feel really confident now flavouring my food and my kids love Mingle." Yeah, great. So it's really sharing that message. And I always say the cooking experience is more flavoursome than just the food. It's about people connecting over food. It's about that experience that people feel like a master chef. And that you can, with Mingle, you can transform your meal with one shake. So it's kind of spreading that message and getting people to connect over their tasty creations.

Tommy: Crazy people actually write in. I'm surprised when people write into our show, which is amazing, but I'm like, whoa, this is so cool. Like that's for us. And I could imagine you getting those going, holy shit, someone's written to me about spice.

Josh: Yeah, that keeps me going. Like what sort of people reach out? What do they say? So you said that there's sort of the parent, Any oddballs, any weird ones? Any weird ones?

Jordyn: I mean, people do, like, I get a few like Sophia, she's spiced up my life.

Josh: So what are the, how many flavors, how many different seasonings do you have?

Jordyn: So I've got 7 at the moment and I'm kind of working on a few new ones.

Josh: And so is it about one's good for chicken, one's good for lamb, this one's good for veggies and a question, "If I'm using it, should I use a different one for my veggies than I do for my meat so that it adds some difference?" Different complexities?

Jordyn: Yeah. So it's a range of different flavours that you can, or you can shake any of them on your chicken or your veg. So it's really for everyday cooking, just like different flavours for a different day to keep things spicy and Variety is the spice of life.

Josh: Now you have got some serious like one-liners that you've worked out. Yeah. Is the, you know, what's a typical day? What do you actually do? Like I feel like I can get into, I love writing copy and that's a good way that like with Tommy and my new business is like the first thing that we've been doing is actually writing the copy for the website 'cause it actually works out like what are we trying to communicate? What are we offering? Like where do you spend your time nowadays? What does it look like?

Jordyn: I guess previously was a bit of a shocker. Like I'd look at my to-do list and everything was kind of deemed to be important. But I'm slowly realising I've gotta work on the things that are gonna move the needle. And for me at the moment, that's really like more customers. So at the moment, it's kind of first start of the day is really like customer acquisition, what's the digital strategy, where are we at with numbers, and then how are we gonna kind of get to those numbers for the week?

Josh: And is it a business that sort of an end goal could be acquisition? Like what does, like do you even think about that sort of stuff?

Tommy: Not by the other asshole Spice Girls.

Josh: Yeah, well, I mean, that can happen, right? Like that's like one of the big, supermarkets buy like indie ones all the time. Like, have you thought about that sort of side of things?

Jordyn: I've certainly thought about it, but it's not the reason why I started my business. And I think if you start a business just purely based on the numbers and figures, like kudos to you, but it's just, I can't wake up every day thinking of Masterfoods buying me. I mean, if you're out there, let me know, like let's mingle, but. Boom, boom, zinga.

Josh: The Mingle Zinger. And so the, what is the, what would be the next category? Like what else excites you outside of spice that you would do a business in, do you think?

Jordyn: I've definitely looked into sauces and dressings. And I guess, yeah, that's probably a 5-year plan. I've got a few curry blends coming out. In the next month or so.

Josh: What's the difference between a curry blend and a curry paste?

Jordyn: So, one's dry and one's wet.

Tommy: Okay. They're quite popular at the moment, like the risotto ones where they cut, it's actually got the risotto in the bag. Oh, I haven't seen those. And so, you just like literally pour it out into water. Damn. And it's got the stock and the spices in there and then just cooks. Damn. That is pretty handy.

Josh: That is handy. They're overpriced, I didn't buy it. Yeah, would you ever do that? Like, is that, would it be against your ethos to put the seasoning directly on the chicken so people could, like, is that even a thing? Could people do that? Have you thought about it?

Jordyn: I have thought of that, or a little sachet on the Ingham chicken packets. Yeah, no, that definitely is a consideration. But yeah, once again, kind of focus, and at the moment it's like realising that I'm one human, I've got '24 minus 8 hours of sleep.' Like I've only got certain hours in the day and I've kind of, I've got to keep my eye on that.

Tommy: Good to know you're getting 8 hours, by the way.

Josh: 8 hours is important. How good is sleep? Yeah, I literally got 6 and my eyes like twitching. Oh, poor Bobby.

Tommy: Poor Bobby. He's about to go on holiday, so. But you're working hard up until the end.

Josh: I'm not really, like it's pretty relaxed compared to—

Tommy: We're doing podcasts.

Josh: Yeah, compared to what Jordan's doing, it's a bit of a joke. I feel a bit embarrassed.

Tommy: I was just thinking about that person in the incubator program, or no, the MAP, saying, oh, you probably shouldn't have gone for the Coles or Woolworths thing. I was like, fuck, if you landed that, you might fuck it up or you might totally win. And it's like, I think people giving advice on what you should and shouldn't do and where you should be placing, it's like, how do you know what's good advice? Because if that if you won that, it would have paid off.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. Just question it. I think it's about questioning the default thinking around it, right? Well, so it's not like, it's not that that's the wrong approach, but it's asking like, does that work within the filters of what I'm trying to do?

Tommy: And is it, if the, yeah, I think that dishearten you at all when you're like, oh, I shouldn't have done that?

Jordyn: No, I, I, to be honest, you have to have thick skin in this startup environment, but it has in the last few weeks really got quite noisy. Like, I think opinions are like assholes, like there's always one. And people really do wanna share their opinion and project their experience or like, and people genuinely do wanna help me. And I really have started to learn to consolidate ideas and go, okay, what's right for me? Yeah, so it's about processing all the advice and tips and tricks that I'm being given and then kind of, picking a few that apply to me. But I don't regret pitching for Woolworths, to be honest. Like, I think— Part of your journey.

Josh: And it's like to get to the point of like getting that bit of advice, you had to do that and like learn it yourself.

Jordyn: Yeah. That meeting though was bloody, to get to that meeting was a bloody nightmare. So I—

Tommy: Hidden in the shop all night in the spice aisle.

Jordyn: No, so Woolworths, Woolworths head office is like an hour and a half, about an hour away from Sydney City. And so I decided to stay at a hotel the night before, right near Woolworths HQ. So it was just a cheeky 10-minute drive, get there early and just keep calm, be in the zone. Anyway, it was like bumper to bumper traffic. I think the buyer picked this time to test me. It was a 9:00 AM meeting. I think there's about 2,000 people that work at Woolworths HQ.

Josh: So all the bumper to bumper was just the car park basically?

Jordyn: Yeah, pretty much, yeah. So it was like, I allowed 45 minutes from the hotel, 10-minute drive to get into Woolworths HQ. And I had, I didn't move for like 10, 15 minutes. You were in an Uber or what was the? I was driving.

Josh: You were driving, so you can't ditch the car.

Jordyn: I had a hired, 4-wheel drive. So this worked in my favor. So bumper to bumper and I was like, what am I gonna do? So I ended up veering left instead of going right. And I was like, I'll do a U-turn. And then got to the lights, missed 2 or 3 rounds of lights. And I was like, shit, what? Like I'm gonna miss this meeting and I've worked so hard. And also you don't get many chances to pitch to Woolworths.

Josh: What would you bring prop-wise? Do you have like all your seasonings and shit like that? Do you have a t-shirt on? Like, how hard do you go in the branding?

Jordyn: Let's mingle, yeah. What did I have? I had some sweet potatoes, some olive oil. I had some shake and bake kits.

Josh: You had actual sweet potato? Yeah. Okay, and it was cooked? Uncooked.

Jordyn: It was kind of like, take this home and mingle in the kitchen.

Josh: Okay, and was it sold in like a pitch? Like, how did they, what was the communication that you had beforehand?

Jordyn: The communication was like, hey, I'm the Spice Girl trying to shake things up in the spice aisle. Mentioning Chobani did help. I was like, Chobani, Chobani, Chobani.

Josh: Or is it Chobani? Chobani.

Tommy: Fuck off, I'm not joining you, you douches.

Josh: Tommy, is that you?

Jordyn: And I guess those retailers, they constantly wanna innovate and look at new products. So I did get a reply quite quickly. So I was like, woo-hoo, like maybe I'm onto something, but yeah.

Josh: So it'd been a little bit of work, but there was definitely, you felt that you landed this opportunity that you were not necessarily expecting. Like you were. True, yeah. And so you're in the car, you've hit a few lights, what happens next?

Jordyn: Then good old George mounts the curb, 'cause I was just like, I— He's done a Tommy. Yeah, it was like Fast and Furious style. I was just like, foot on the accelerator. I was like passing everyone waving like, sorry, sorry. I was like, please, like, I hope I don't see the buyer that I'm like about to meet. They probably would respect that. Yeah. And anyway, made it with like 2 minutes to spare. Shit. But it kind of worked in my favour 'cause then the buyer came out and he was like, how's your morning been? And I was like, well, this just shows like the level of dedication that I'm willing to bloody drive illegally for Woolworths. So yeah, about mounting the curve. I did, yeah. But it kind of like, I think in those professional meetings and contexts, and also I think buyers, retail buyers especially, just have a bad rep in the, in the industry for being— yeah, yeah. But it, yeah, it kind of put our meeting back to that human level. Yeah, yeah, it kind of eased the nerves.

Josh: So did you spend time in reception? I always find that interesting. I feel like less as you get older and you're doing more things, I feel like this feels like it's one of those pivotal moments where it doesn't matter how old you are, how much experience you've had, this meeting is gonna have that sort of anxiety. How does it come out for you? Do you get all sweaty? I like sweat profusely, which is like, yeah, it's sort of annoying. What was your, what was the monologue like in your head?

Jordyn: I definitely had sweaty palms. But I also, I tried to not be attached to the outcome. I was like, Woolworths doesn't define the success of my product. Like I'm rocking up here, I'm gonna know more about how to pitch, like, and I'm gonna learn a lot. And I think that's maybe why this journey has been so fun. And I'm kind of just progressively, I'm just learning day in, day out.

Tommy: Did he hit you with anything that you couldn't answer?

Jordyn: No, I guess the Ciabani programme did help with that. So we'd kind of worked through different personas of different buyers throughout that course of that program. So what do they care about?

Josh: What do they ask?

Jordyn: I mean, it's very numbers driven and it's also like, how are you gonna bring new shoppers to my aisle?

Josh: So it's— So they wanna see potentially like a digital spend that you're doing or something like that, or what does it actually look like? It's, yeah.

Jordyn: You certainly have to pitch some marketing numbers and—

Tommy: To support that for them. Yeah. They won't spend that.

Jordyn: Yeah, no, so yeah, you're basically pitching that you're gonna drive new shoppers into that aisle that are gonna buy more spices and seasonings.

Josh: Well, what is the next like big milestone for you? You know, what is the next big meeting or do you not see it like that?

Jordyn: I do have intentions of at the end of the year pitching to Woolworths friends, good old Coles. Yeah. Oh yeah. But once again, not attached to the outcome. So I think the power of having a digital business is it works in my favour and I really do love having that direct relationship with my customers. And it sometimes frustrates me when there is a middleman that doesn't believe as much in my product, and it kind of is like, oh, you know, this outcome is determined by you and your KPIs and, and what you need to do for your job. So that does frustrate me a little bit. So open to pitching to retailers, and I think that is kind of the end goal because that drives that's, you know, that is mass retail and allows for my product to be accessible to the masses, but at the same time, I can still rock it without the retailers.

Josh: What's the, you know, obviously throughout all of this, especially the incubators, you've dealt with a lot of sort of what would be considered mentors. What makes a good mentor? What makes a bad mentor? Like how can, mentors do a better job and where do they go wrong, do you think?

Jordyn: Great question. Good mentors acknowledge where I'm at in my business. So it's very easy for someone to be like, "Oh, just get an executive assistant," or, "Oh, just do this." And it's like, actually, being in touch with reality and kind of where I am rather than maybe where they are in their business. And yeah, so I definitely have a few mentors. I like people calling me out on my shit. Yeah. And giving me a fresh perspective 'cause it's so easy to get caught up in that. In that bubble and think that people care as much about your product as what I do. So really just being that soundboard of support.

Tommy: Have you found a mentor? I mean, you're not looking for, are you looking for someone who's in the spice business? Or are you looking for someone outside of that?

Josh: In a different category, yeah.

Jordyn: Yeah, I've been pretty lucky in the last probably 6 months, just people kind of coming into my life So I kind of look for people that have different skill sets. So I don't come from an accounting business background. So definitely in that space, I've got one mentor, it's actually Pete's brother. Oh yeah, cool. Yeah, who I did the old MBA with. Yeah.

Josh: Peter Shepherd's brother, Peter we had on the show previously.

Jordyn: We did. Yeah, so he's really been helping me with the grind of numbers and more the kind of business strategy stuff. And then yeah, definitely someone in that FMCG food space. So tapping into the Melbourne Uni Map community has been pretty great for that. And also the guys at Chobani, kind of even though that programme's finished, it's kind of the doors are always open. So I can always get some help there.

Tommy: Have you found anyone that you're helping? 'Cause I think mentors are a funny thing. I think about the people I have, I've chosen them. They haven't gone, hey Tommy, I wanna be your mentor. 'Cause then I'll be like, you can't.

Josh: It's not even as formal as that, right? It's always been, yeah.

Tommy: No, that's what I'm saying. I just chose them personally. I resonated with their advice or whatever and I respect them. So it's like, have you found that with you? That you can identify anyone that's come to you going, oh, can you help me? Or?

Jordyn: I'm kind of always open to helping people. So whether it's friends starting a little side hustle or, Yeah, people touching base with me. I love to pay it forward. And if I can share some of my insights and good points and fuck-ups and they can learn from that, then I'm always happy to share. And also because other people on their journey have given me that mentorship and those learnings, it's nice to pay it forward to others.

Tommy: How do you decide to, How did you decide on which ones to take up? Like I got an email before, someone, I don't know how he found me.

Josh: Through YouTube, it's the same.

Tommy: Must have seen my videos and his thing was, the headline subject was, I'll work for you for free. Which is, ah fuck, that sounds appealing. Go for that. But then it might just be a suck of my time. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know, how do you go about that knowing what?

Josh: Do you have any strategies on like what do people care about Yeah, like how do you show value?

Jordyn: I am starting to realise that I do have to say no to a few people, especially now that I'm starting to put myself out there. So it's really just sussing people out. And if it comes across really self-motivated or, I also just wanna connect with like really great people that are just doing good things.

Josh: So— It shouldn't feel too transactional, right?

Jordyn: Yeah, I think that's—

Josh: If it says to whom it may concern or fucking hi, Full Stack Films, it's like, all right.

Tommy: To the founder. All right, fucker.

Josh: Or like I'm the recipient not disclosed because they've fucking BCC'd me with 10 other people. It's just like, there are those. Tommy and I have done whole episodes about that shit where it's like, especially when I tweaked all the search engine optimization for my business, the type of people that reach out. And the people that stand out are the ones that actually like connect on a human level, actually say your name and they connect with exactly, they be specific.

Jordyn: Being specific I think is really important. Yeah, yeah, the power of questions. But I do agree, that's why I hate contrived networking. Like it's so transactional, it's like, How can I get something out of this person?

Tommy: Isn't that just LinkedIn? Oh yeah.

Josh: It is, yeah. I mean, networking, I think it can be really gross. One thing I wanted to know is how, you like being called out on your bullshit. Are you about to call her out? No, no, I'm trying to work out how do you invite people in to do that? Because it seems like one of those areas that people don't necessarily wanna slam you. But even with this podcast, I'll preface conversations I have with people. It's like, "Hey, can you tell me something you hate about the podcast?" And it's like, "I want you to slam me right now." And like trying to encourage people to, 'cause the negative feedback is the stuff that's gonna help us grow.

Tommy: What I've watched though, when Josh says this to people, so give us negative feedback, not that they don't, and I'm not thinking that they've got nothing bad to say about our show 'cause it's perfect, which it is. But what I think is, people maybe don't even go there or they're not willing to go there. So it's the type of person that will say, all right, so you fucked up at this point. Yeah. So I mean, that's the type. So you—

Josh: well, Rob Ward is really good at that, right? Which is like going super analytical and being like, actually, like, there was this one bit in this episode or that, and like, I love that. Like, that to me is a great mentor and someone who's providing great feedback. How do you— is there a method that you have in teasing that out and encouraging people just to slam you?

Jordyn: Yeah, I love that stuff. So I think also that's why I was so excited to be part of this MAP Melbourne Uni programme is to get out of my health fitspo bubble, food bubble, and be around like engineers and tech nerds and really people coming from all different facets of life. That have a fresh new perspective. And if I do eventually want my brand to be a mass market brand, like I need to convert, you know, the Joe Blow that maybe is driven by price or driven by something else. So I love seeking out, yeah.

Josh: The negative side. Well, that's, yeah, that's how you're gonna improve. What was it? So you mentioned old MBA, what was your experience like with that? What would you do? Tell us about it.

Jordyn: Yeah, so epic experience. I quit my job and kind of was looking for an opportunity to upskill myself. It was bloody intense. Yeah. 4 weeks of like shipping constantly.

Josh: Did they have the Australian time zone when you did it?

Jordyn: Yeah, so that was the first cohort, yeah. But yeah, great experience for me to kind of push through that resistance of, shipping things that were maybe 80% of the way there. I think I'm a massive perfectionist and yeah, it got me into that mentality of kind of just ship it and keep rolling and gaining that momentum. When did you do it?

Tommy: Start of the year. Oh, great. So for, 'cause automatically I'm like, oh fuck, I've got a business. I can't, I've got no time to do something like study as well. Yeah. Did you, what'd you find? How was that experience?

Jordyn: Yeah, no, pretty intense. Like the, I think you had to ship something nearly every day.

Tommy: Shipping doesn't mean physically sending out a package.

Jordyn: Yeah, sorry. Yeah, what is that?

Tommy: No, I get it, I love it. Seth Godin talks a lot about it, which it's his program, the Ultimate MBA.

Josh: So yeah, what does it look like? What sort of projects are you shipping each day?

Jordyn: So it's very driven by the curriculum and, Seth obviously has kind of his methodologies and topics to kind of COVID but it's really writing reflection pieces. And I think what was refreshing as well is you go throughout school and you're so driven by getting marks and seeking that A or seeking that high distinction. But this, I guess, over the course of the 4 weeks, you don't really you don't get any of those kind of external validations other than that peer-to-peer feedback. So you write a reflection piece and then you get peers kind of commenting and asking you questions, things that you kind of maybe didn't think of. And then I think you have a day or two to kind of reflect on those questions, and then you write a reflection piece based on, based on that peer feedback.

Josh: How many, how many people were doing the the course when you did it?

Jordyn: Oh, I think there were maybe 40 people. Yeah, I definitely was the youngest. And I think that was a big lesson is like when I feel uncomfortable and sometimes like, oh damn, I feel like I'm the dumbest person in the room, that's where I learned the most.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely.

Jordyn: How old were you? 26.

Tommy: 26, I did a life coaching course at 19, so anything I've learned, I was very— That's wisdom.

Josh: That's good, that's good. Yeah, look at him now.

Tommy: Look at me now. What about external people outside of your world? Like for instance, people like to, I think, bring you down. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but someone said to me, "Oh, how's your little podcast?" And it just sounded really patronizing. He's like, "Well, fuck it. It's not that little." That's what I think. But I'm like, "Yeah, it's great." But I thought about him and how he said it and how he phrased it. Probably didn't mean much behind it. But people do like to categorise you.

Josh: "Oh, how's your little?" And we also love to read into shit too, right?

Tommy: Like when you're doing it on the podcast.

Josh: When you're doing it on your own, like you have the ability just to go real in. Do you find that that sort of stuff, did it used to rattle you? How do you be out? We're not talking Spice Business.

Jordyn: Yeah, I think tall poppy syndrome, especially in Australia is pretty huge. So I think maybe that's as well why I've taken so long to kind of, put myself out there as the founder. Yeah, maybe driven by a little bit of criticism or people being like, who does she think she is? So once again, I love feedback. I kind of, I love that kind of pushback.

Tommy: Well, if you turn it into fuel, it's not gonna affect you as much. So you're going, okay, I take this on. Yeah. Do I need it or not?

Jordyn: Yeah, carry on. Yeah, yeah, carry on.

Tommy: What seems hard, their little fucking dumb business that they've got.

Josh: It seems hard to improve from positive feedback, to be honest. Like, to me, like, for someone who loves change, I find it hard to take positive feedback because for me it doesn't give me anything new that I can actually implement. And so, it becomes this stagnant— Like, I think that the day that we stop getting negative feedback, I'll probably struggle because I always need something, like, what can I do next time that's gonna make it a little bit better than the one before?

Tommy: Other side of that is maybe not being able to celebrate the wins, 'cause that's a really positive thing to be doing. Yeah, that's true. We've got to where we have because we've done so much hard work. 'Cause that doesn't feel like you're moving forward. And I feel you as well.

Jordyn: I feel almost a bit the same. Yeah, no, that's certainly true. I'm trying to appreciate the little wins along the journey, 'cause it's so easy to be like, and next.

Tommy: Yeah, I got pulled up by a client once, once when she was giving me a compliment about the video stuff and she said, oh, you're shit-ass at taking a compliment, aren't you?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And it was really, it was like, so true. I don't like, it made me feel uncomfortable when you were patting me on the back in that moment. But if I owned it and said, yeah, thank you so much for that.

Josh: I heard something where it was like, if you, if you, you've got to be good at accepting compliments more for the other person as well, because if they're giving you a compliment and you can't take it, you've sort of fucked the transact— like you've fucked it for them because they've tried to say something nice and you've basically just thrown it back in their face. Yeah.

Tommy: So just being, you know, I mean, empathy for the person because I think it can be hard giving somebody a good compliment, which sounds weird, right?

Josh: My ears ring when I do it. I can't be nice to people.

Tommy: Yeah, it freaks you out. Yeah, it's vulnerable. It's like, yeah, maybe it's because how you react to positive feedback that you're going, fuck, if I give this positive, they're gonna freak out and they'll feel like I do.

Josh: Maybe there's a level of vulnerability there. Yeah. Or it's just like, yeah, I don't know, sort of weird.

Tommy: So whereabouts is— I can't give you any positive feedback on your spices.

Josh: So where can we buy it? So Mingle Seasoning, you said 400, like what the fuck? That's a lot of places. Yeah.

Jordyn: How does shelf life work quickly? So I've got 18 months shelf life. Oh, great. Yeah, so spices is kind of, They last a long time.

Josh: Oh, that's good. And so yeah, where can people buy it?

Jordyn: I'm gonna say minglseasoning.com. Yeah, take that conversion. Yeah, and absolutely.

Josh: And given that we don't sell anything, if you listen to the show and you need seasoning, get Mingle Seasoning, take a fucking photo and send it to us, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. With your acai bowl. Yeah, with your fucking acai bowl. In your yoga pants. Yeah, I'm excited, like I was saying, like I'm excited to, when I get back to Melbourne, like start cooking and the meal prep and shit. Like it's just like, it's the same ethos of wearing the same clothes. Like being able to like have one thing that I don't have to think about is nice.

Tommy: Maybe Jordan, you can be Josh's mentor in the—

Jordyn: In the meal prep, meal prepping scene. Meal prep cooking.

Josh: Well, Tommy's planning for us to do all this gains— Exercising. Do you like exercise? Yeah, exercise. Yeah, that's what you mean. Yeah. Jordan Evans, thanks for being on. What's your Instagram, by the way? Because you just started it too.

Jordyn: Oh yeah, the Mingle Spice Girl. Yeah, sick. Spice up your life.

Josh: The Daily Talk Show, everyone. I hope all is, uh, I hope all is well. Hope you're enjoying it.

Tommy: Hi at thedailytalkshow.com. Boom. Thanks, guys. Bye.