Punching darts

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show. I'm Josh Janson.

Tommy: I'm Tommy Jackett.

Josh: And this is the conversation sometimes worth recording, TJ. It's episode 91.

Tommy: Oh yeah, booyah!

Josh: It feels like a while since it's just been you and I chatting.

Tommy: Yeah, well, we chat all the fucking time, but when we turn on the mic, it's a different vibe. Yeah, I mean, I usually have an English accent. That's my real— no, it's not.

Josh: Do you think you put on a voice? Do you get critiqued on from anyone saying you sound different when you turn the mic on?

Tommy: No, not on a podcast. Remember hearing, we did it in an earlier episode and we'll probably do it again, is play some stuff from Shepparton when I was 24, 25.

Josh: And you go full cringe.

Tommy: Oh, I do. Look at, I mean, yeah, I cringe at my past constantly. I can't believe you don't cringe at your past. You just bask in it. You fucking use it as a body wash.

Josh: The funny thing is that I, You know how we have this feeling that we've sort of stayed stagnant or that we haven't changed? It wasn't until I listened to yesterday's episode and—

Tommy: Oh, fuck. If your brother's listening, he'd be upset with you.

Josh: You're about to talk about the podcast.

Tommy: Don't do it. I agree with him. I'm on your side, James.

Josh: No, but to be clear, it's— No, when I was listening to it, 'cause I haven't listened in the last 90-odd episodes, I've listened to maybe 3, and it did make me think. I'm like, oh man, I need to fix the compressors because it's all— it's a bit boomy. It's a bit like— I know, so if someone's listening, but if anyone's listening in a like with a good speaker system and they've got a fair bit of sort of bass, if we're a boom boom boom, we'll be fixing that.

Tommy: So as long as this is— you're making a formal apology, I'll accept the fact that you talked about the podcast.

Josh: It is a— it's a formal apology. And a reflection on the fact that we do improve. And even though, 'cause I felt like I would have to listen to every episode to actually improve, but I feel like just having the conversations.

Tommy: I had a meeting this morning.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I had thought about it previously before going into it. And it was thinking about how to talk about money. It's something that people skirt around. It makes people uncomfortable talking about. How much they're going to get paid or how much they're going to charge or how much something costs. It's a fascinating thing how money just adds a completely new element to any conversation.

Josh: Yeah. And I, um, was it, who was it, was it a client, supplier, what was the relationship with the—

Tommy: Yeah, I'd say a client.

Josh: You were trying to charge them for something?

Tommy: Well, see, here's the thing, I wasn't sure because it was like, let's catch up to talk about this opportunity, but in my mind it was never clear about the monetary gain on my side from that opportunity. And the opportunity would take effort from me. I'm being very— I'm not talking about it because I fucking— I haven't taken on this thing, or I haven't. And it is a bit, um, secretive— not the word— it's a bit, um, confidential in terms of what I'm dealing with. Fuck it, I love making— talking like this makes it sound like you're doing something really big.

Josh: It's good, isn't it? The local pizza shop wanted a video. They've got— they're actually adding little bacon bits to their margherita pizza and they haven't announced it yet. So true.

Tommy: I've got lots of friends that are in TV and they say— they're always like, look, confidentially. It's like they love playing in that space of talking about the things that are potentially going on with—

Josh: you can't talk— in a lot of cases you can't talk about it. Jack being a good example, he'd been— he was going to London and not being able to tell people why he was going and all that sort of thing, had it under wraps.

Tommy: I appreciate Jack, Jack, the way he dealt with it. 'Cause we even caught up with him and had lunch and he was just like, he's like, I can't just talk about it. This was ages ago.

Josh: Yeah, that was like months and months and months ago.

Tommy: Before he even went to London, I think.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: And because you could treat it and talk about it in a way that makes you seem bigger and it's like this thing. And so I'm not trying to do that 'cause it's nothing that big. But my takeaway was, I confronted the money thing.

Josh: Wine glass with margarita.

Tommy: With bacon bits. I ended up just going, okay, I'm just gonna be really upfront. So I said—

Josh: You didn't say that though, did you?

Tommy: No, I said I need to make money.

Josh: Okay, yeah.

Tommy: That's one of the things, that's my priority at the moment is making money. And so I led with that. And I think about the conversation I had and I was like, It's so fascinating 'cause I think people are worried and maybe came up in me that you sort of ruffle feathers by saying you want money or it's making you seem like you're only in it for the money. But the reality is I've got shit going on and I need to be remunerated for my time and that is with money. And so I thought, yeah, just go lead with that.

Josh: Well, I think that what I have done with projects that I want to do, it's for a friend or someone that I like, I'll basically say like, hey, this is how much I'll charge you. And it's really just so that I don't feel guilty about saying no to other projects. You are basically, you're still buying my time. Whereas if they're doing it for, if I'm doing it for free, there's always that thing of if I'm saying no to work, I'm really leaving money on the table. But if I at least get them to pay some sort of tokenistic, price, then it's sort of, I can say, I can actually set this time aside for you. And they feel empowered too, 'cause they know that you're getting paid fairly for what's getting done. And what, so what vibe did you get off them when you said that?

Tommy: Yeah, it was good. It was understandably, they were saying, yes, of course, it's, you know, we'll definitely pay you for this. And they want to, they see the worth in it. And so it was received well. And I think this, it's probably not the best example of when like a negative situation to learn from. It was like one where I might've thought more about it.

Josh: Well, you project this idea of like that people are gonna really care.

Tommy: And so it's like when you, yeah, 'cause a lot of the time you were probably caring more than the other person or you're thinking about it in a way that they're just totally not even.

Josh: It's not on their radar.

Tommy: Not on their radar. And so I think it's like new people in business. How much do you charge? And then you're just obsessing about this amount and you need to justify it. And you know, a lot of the time the client takes the number as the amount it costs. Like it is what it is. And a lot of the time if they're pushing you on the figure, it's like maybe not the right client for you or they don't see your worth.

Josh: Well, it's like our, we're about to move out of our apartment. So we have to do the big a big cleaning before moving out so that, you know, you can give the certificate or receipt or whatever to the real estate agent so they know it's been sort of, what is it? What's it called? Like bond?

Tommy: Yeah, you get your bond back.

Josh: Get your bond back and all that sort of thing. And the quotes have been really sort of different in price. So, the quote that we got for doing our 2-bedroom apartment through the cleaning company that the real estate agent recommends and guarantees 100% bond back guarantee was $480. Okay. Do you think that's a lot of money?

Tommy: Your place, you could do it yourself.

Josh: Well, yeah, I mean, that's like, there is that theory behind it. And I was saying that to Bri, like, you know, we keep it really clean anyway.

Tommy: We've done it. That's exactly what we've done multiple times, Amy and I.

Josh: So we were thinking—

Tommy: In fairness, she's done the cleaning.

Josh: Yeah, you've just outsourced it and just not paid anything. And yeah, so we, there was that price, there was someone who was like $300, but Bri spoke to these people on the phone who are $480 today to potentially lock them in. And they said, oh, if we wanted the balcony done as well, it was gonna be an extra $20. So it was gonna be $500. But when Bri got off the phone, like we'd been umming and ahhing, being like, it's a bit of a lot of money given that like someone else is like quoted us $300. And but Bree was like, "Oh, she wasn't really fussed whether we went with them or not." Like she wasn't like prepared to budge, which makes me feel that she must be really good.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So maybe we just go with them.

Tommy: Yeah, that's the perception.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: That she's tried.

Josh: Yeah, and so, and I guess that from a psychological point of view, I've definitely paid more for things to remove the worry. Right? So it's like, okay, I'm gonna pay a little bit more, but I know that I'm not gonna have to stuff around with this.

Tommy: It's one of your favourite things to do, pay a little bit more.

Josh: Pay a little bit more. That's my tagline, love a good subscription. But no, I've been working on getting the Daily Talk Show logo done.

Tommy: Okay, are you bartering?

Josh: No, so I went to—

Tommy: Fuck you, we've talking about the podcast into it very smoothly.

Josh: Very nice. No, but people—

Tommy: Topical, keep us going.

Josh: And so the— No, I, so I've been, uh, I was back and forth with a guy for about the last week. I selected him based on, it wasn't crazy expensive, it was about $300. Uh, I had like 3 revisions and I liked some of the stuff that he'd done. The problem I think was that like he wasn't like, for $500 I could get someone that I really like I really like, and I thought I pushed back on that idea of always just going the most expensive option, 'cause I feel like that used to be what I would do at a restaurant. I'd basically like go down the list to like say like, okay, 17, 17, 23. Okay, yeah, that's probably gonna be the biggest, 23.

Tommy: Like that. Well, you look at the number.

Josh: I'd look at the price and go highest first. Isn't that fucked? So I bet I've shifted, I've definitely shifted where I'll now be like, okay, I like, it's between say the Smashdavo and like the eggplant thing. Okay, the eggplant thing is $18 and the Smashdavo is $20. I'll go the $18, like I'll go the cheaper option.

Tommy: Well, 'cause you wanna save some dollars now.

Josh: Yeah, well I think no, but I think it's just that mindful thing of like, okay, well the default to go a bit cheaper.

Tommy: Did the more expensive one from a data point of view of you doing this quite a bit, Did it mean it was better and bigger all the time?

Josh: No, well, I think that that's a thing in a lot of cases, especially with travel experiences. I have some of my favourite travel experiences ever have cost nothing, where it's like going out on the street, going into a city, walking around, and paying a bunch of money for an experience hasn't equated to the happiness factor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And no, so I ended up getting this guy who was $300, sort of Eastern Europe. I'd actually, I've worked with him before, haven't used his services but have, yeah, have sort of, have done some stuff with him before filming-wise. And yeah, I got him to do it and I just wasn't happy with the first revision. And it was almost like, There was no going back from the first revision where he'd sent through the stuff, and just because he hadn't been able to articulate the reason why he'd done the logo the way he'd done, he just sort of sent it to me. It was just like a few, you know, a bit of typography and all that sort of thing. And so I think I was pretty dismissive in the sense of like trying to be nice. I'm like, look, I think this is my fault because I don't think I've articulated properly the creative and what I wanted. And upon reflection, I think that the style that I wanted, which was sort of typographically heavy, doesn't necessarily suit your portfolio of sort of more iconology, sort of like icons.

Tommy: So you should have spent more money.

Josh: Yeah, so that's what I've literally done now. So it was that weird one where it's like I said to— I said to him like, look, I don't think it's worth your while doing another version. He ended up doing another version for me, and it was a bit better, but it was still missing the artistry that I was hoping for. It was just a commodity that it was just sort of like pumps out all these logos all the time. And so, and he's a really nice guy, and so I, I wanted to make sure that I was like, I was respectful. And I definitely like some of the language I realised that I was using at the beginning. I said, hey, I realise that I'm partly to blame for the And then I changed it, I'm like, hang on, partly to blame is like the ultimate like way of like trying to put blame onto them because it's saying that there's like a certain amount of blame.

Tommy: Well, the other part's them.

Josh: Yeah, there's a certain amount of blame and they have something, whereas I think that because it was completely my expectations that weren't being met and I picked them.

Tommy: Nuances in conversation, saying to somebody, so what you're saying is implying that what they're saying doesn't make sense and you're needing to clarify in a simpler form of what they're saying.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. So how would you, what would be the less passive-aggressive or rude approach to, um, "So you're saying," what do you think? I'd probably, I'd probably do something around, I'm not, like, I'd probably be self-deprecating where it's like, "I don't get it." Yeah, I'm a bit, I'm a bit dumb, so, you know, give me a second. But I think It's an interview strategy.

Tommy: Like, you see it where, I mean, yeah, it depends. But what I was thinking about what you were saying is a client that I haven't followed up on actually, that, yeah, because we had a conversation, it was around the money thing, and they were really trying to get a price out of me for a project. And long storey short, I realised they told me that they'd been ripped off by someone who paid a lot, charged them a lot of money, yeah, and gave them a subpar product. So people are— and then vice versa is like, if you pay cheap, it's like the saying, you get what you pay for.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And if you're paying cheap, you'll get a cheap product. And in a lot of senses that's true, but there is this, you know, personal experience, you know, like the woman that I was— I'm talking about that paid a shitload and their client had paid a shitload and they were jaded and worried that someone was gonna fleece them again, you know. And so it's— money is just this thing of, you know, exchange of services. You're constantly trying to work out what the other person's thinking.

Josh: Yeah, I think that there's a, uh, there's definitely a desire to try and be as honest and open about the whole process. Uh, I think that probably my thoughts have moved away from making them financial conversations and more around creative So it's that thing of, you know, I look at say the value, say like the Daily Talk Show logo, fuck, he's back. And I think about—

Tommy: Sorry, James.

Josh: I think about that.

Tommy: I'm gonna apologise on your behalf to James every episode.

Josh: Thank you, I appreciate that. I mean, you've got a lot of apologising to do. There's been a few years there. No, but it's a, I think about, okay, these are gonna be safe, we're gonna like, you know, I like to think big. I'm like, okay, what if we were to get like a LED light signage and we're to get this printed here and it's all like, on the thing there and it's just like, and we wrap your car as a decal with the logo, which if you follow us on Instagram stories, you would know what I'm talking about at the Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: If you viewed it within 24 hours of Josh posting it.

Josh: Yeah, it's very specific.

Tommy: So there's a very small window.

Josh: Yeah, it's super fans. So yeah, no, I definitely, I put that hat on and I'm like, okay, well this is something that I don't really wanna skimp on. And what I've realised also is front-loading communication, having the hard conversations first, being, being the annoying one at the beginning where it's like, okay, let's make sure that we're all on the same page and that we're talking the same way, to then allow them to be autonomous.

Tommy: I think we've talked about it in emails. Yeah, answering. So someone asks you a question in email and the answer you have to give them is somewhat hard. Meaning I can't help you because that day doesn't work.

Josh: Don't bury it.

Tommy: Yeah, burying it in the email, just lead with it. I can't do Sunday.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, it's about answer then context rather than context then answer. So yeah, it's that idea of we wanna soften the answer, whereas really if we respect them, we should be putting it up front.

Tommy: Yeah, so closing the loop of the chat we're having, I'm getting the pizza with bacon.

Josh: So hey, we're talking about closing the loops.

Tommy: I got another one to close.

Josh: Yeah, an anonymous listener, uh, wrote to me and said, um, on episode 89 where we had Bri on and I was talking about how great the interview with Sandra Sully on Osher Ginsberg podcast— and what did you accuse Sandra Sully of doing, do you remember?

Tommy: Smoking heaps of durries and having like a raspy voice. Well, maybe I was thinking of someone else.

Josh: What was the, uh, what was the terminology that you used?

Tommy: I can't even remember.

Josh: Well, the person— if I go into, uh, something around, I'll be able to tell you exactly. Uh, uh, commenting on your last podcast, my friend works at Channel 10 and can confirm Sandra Sully does punch darts. So there you go. I don't know, um, I don't know if that's true or defamatory if it's not true?

Tommy: Well, I think you can hear it in someone's voice when they punch darts.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: Especially someone who punches a lot of darts.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I'll tell you who punches a lot of darts. We spoke about him on yesterday's podcast. Rob Thomas from Matchbox.

Josh: Great singer too. Yeah, some of the best people— like, just to bring it around so it's less of sort of a defamatory case— a lot of great people punch darts.

Tommy: Fair enough. There's your headline: A Lot of Great People Punch Duries.

Josh: Yeah, so Duries, darts, I don't know, darts, you know, dingers.

Tommy: No, that's— no, that's condoms. Uh, so yeah, Rob Thomas, he came into the radio studio I was working at. Man, his voice! And he smelled like ciggies, and he was just— whoa, his voice just sounds like— also, to be fair on him, he uses his voice a lot singing, and so it does change it, but Yeah, he's a durry man for sure.

Josh: Yeah, you'd want to be if you were making a living doing that sort of thing. But you could see how, as someone old school media, how that was sort of a romantic thing to do, which is have a coffee, have a ciggie. Yeah, you'd be in the boardroom or whatever it is, and it would be— there'd be, you know, smoke-covered sort of roof there.

Tommy: I— yeah, I've never quite understood I've had lots of friends that been eating breakfast with them or food and it's just straight onto a si after food.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It's like gives them a rush or something. It's like taste buds are going wild and then they're just sucking back.

Josh: You know, talking about talking about people.

Tommy: Talking about talking about people.

Josh: Talking about talking about people. No, it's the one area that I think that I've had the most amount of I've been reflecting on it a lot in the last few years. So I feel like as a kid, what comedy was for me was just like slamming people. Was it? Yeah, I thought that was really—

Tommy: You big Jackass fan.

Josh: Yeah, well, yeah, not physically slamming people, but just like I enjoyed taking the piss.

Tommy: Heckle, someone heckling and then the comedian going hard on them.

Josh: Yeah, almost, yeah. Or the, um, it's like the trolling the trolls and stuff like that, like you and I having a good laugh at someone or things like that.

Tommy: However, like this Sandra, uh, thing, or it was a passing comment that she smokes and she sounds like she smokes. And who, who was right?

Josh: I know Sandra punches durries, but I think she starts— but I think the thing is that I feel like I've lived long enough now to see how this like world goes around. And I think about like the amount of like friends that I've made and stuff like that who I could imagine like without knowing them in a previous life saying something on Twitter or shit like that. So I just like, my default has just been, has started to come around to not, talking about people because I feel like every time I talk about someone, I used to, I feel like I used to really get like a, wasn't like a good rush, but I would never feel bad about it. And I feel like I was catching up with a mate yesterday and even like I was implying something about someone. I didn't even say it, but it felt like I was, I had this bit of information, this bit of truth about someone., and I felt this desire, and the person came up in conversation, and there was a desire for me to imply and say, oh, that person, blah, blah, blah. And I straight away, like, that evening I was just thinking about it. I'm like, uh, I don't feel good about it.

Tommy: Yeah, well, gossiping. Amy had a situation at her office where she got caught up in some gossip And caught up, meaning it was like she said something to the person who was being gossiped. And I say gossip just using the sense of like being talked about, but she found herself in this case where she wasn't meant to say it because then she was like, oh, who said that?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And then Amy was telling me, and I was feeling the feelings of what she was feeling, that frustration of like, I don't want to be involved in this.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I get it when you're talking about someone else You can, but I feel like I don't. Maybe we, you know, not— I think around your mates everyone says some shit that they wouldn't fucking press record.

Josh: But it's almost like I want to, like there's the, uh, I feel like I almost need to give context to these things now where it's like, yeah, or, or do I just not say it at all?

Tommy: I think you need to have your own personal filter. I don't feel that there's anything that I say that's about someone else that I'm not willing to say to them.

Josh: Yeah, sure.

Tommy: And it's— and me saying Sandra Sully punches darts, I'm not saying it's fact. We've had it confirmed, so I can now—

Josh: Can we be clear that we haven't had it? We've had an anonymous insider. We've had an anonymous person say they work at— they've got a friend that works at Channel 10 who can confirm that she punches darts. Yeah.

Tommy: So I mean, I'm just saying, I don't think it's— it's not like saying she takes heroin. Which is more defamatory. She doesn't, and I just guess she doesn't. But you— what I— what I— I'm happy to talk about other people in the sense of this is some— a thought.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I don't think we're vicious people, so we're not— we're not mean. I get it. I know you don't want to focus your energy there, but maybe you're talking about having secrets on people and it feels like you've got leverage over them. No, I don't feel that.

Josh: No, I think that there's, uh, a level of, um I think I think about when—

Tommy: Are you worried it's happening to you? Is that what you feel?

Josh: I think maybe. No, it's not. No, it's not even that. I think that the feeling is that I will see people who I know who would say something to me about someone else, and I always look at them and, and I actually— the person who's saying it I end up being a bit of a mark on their name where I'm like, "Oh, they're the type of person to sort of have a crack," or something like that. But I guess it's the differing versions of—

Tommy: But if you're not willing to say it to the person, don't fucking say it, is what I think.

Josh: And I think that there is that, but then there's also the fact of like, we have people that are really close to us. So, Amy might be frustrated at work and might say things to you in frustration or just being like, "Oh, this person's really annoying me. They're a pain in the ass." And then that's, yeah, like—

Tommy: Okay, then it makes me see that person in a different light.

Josh: Yeah, but not only that, I think that it, you know, these things aren't necessarily facts. Like I've had people where they'll say something bad about someone and then I'll look at that person in a different light now. But then the person who said the bad thing, they go on their merry way and they're fine. They have like a good relationship with the person, but maybe I hold grudges 'cause I'm like, ah, I don't know.

Tommy: That does play into it. I just think, don't— I think you don't want to be known as the person who's talking about other people. Yeah, absolutely. Because if that is what the other people around them are picking up on as the trait, it's like, if you're obviously too much of that, you're doing too much of it.

Josh: And I think the fact that it's like so isolated and it happened this once and I identified it and I drew this big circle around it, I'm like, oh man. You know, like I wasn't a fan of that moment.

Tommy: I haven't consciously thought about it like you, you know, articulate it in years. I remember I was always distancing myself from people in school, those, those people who would be gossipers or always wanting to start shit.

Josh: Yeah, but I think there's a level of empathy as well, right? So I think that I think about, okay, like I'm saying these things, but I don't really know. Like, I'm taking this one perspective, which is mine, which is probably being told by a third source, or all these types of things. Um, but at the same time, I value honesty and transparency and all of those things as well. I know, the Squidgy story, the Squidgy storey of, of 2004, which you remember the date. I don't remember the date, but I'm chucking a rough a rough number on it.

Tommy: A rough entry point.

Josh: It's a very good pun if you've heard that storey on a previous episode. Really go back.

Tommy: Fuck, I just got hit with hunger.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: It's about that, well, what time is it? It's like the 3 o'clock, yeah, it's the 3 o'clock hunger. The spike.

Josh: Yeah, I'm fine. I had a halloumi burger today before the show.

Tommy: Oh, of course you did.

Josh: So it was really yummy actually.

Tommy: Did you barter them to get it down in price?

Josh: No, it was just an Uber Eats sort of shtick.

Tommy: Did you give the Uber guy a bit of shit?

Josh: No, no. It was all, it's all good. I've moved on from all of that stuff.

Tommy: Smoking, speaking of darts, durries, ciggies, fags. Now you can't call them fags no more.

Josh: You can't. I like how you said that. You can't call them fags no more.

Tommy: As I sucked back a ciggie.

Josh: Is that the, uh, is that the title of the episode?

Tommy: Can't call them fags no more.

Josh: Can't call them fags no more.

Tommy: I remember buying fags from the—

Josh: this is a classic story. Yeah, sure.

Tommy: This isn't the story, but I just No, it's like, it's like, and then they turned to fads.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And then big bosses used to have red tips on them, then they got rid of the red tips like it was a light.

Josh: Uh, Mother's Day, went to my parents' place, they had a, uh, a bong on the table. No, they had a, um, a place that had gollywogs on it. You can't do that, can you?

Tommy: Fuck. Sorry, we're going on tangents. Airport.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Waiting for a plane. This woman had a Gollywog. And if you don't know, because they are pretty much been wiped out because it's fucking not PC. Yeah, it's not even PC. It's like just not acceptable. They're, they're like black doll, black like Cabbage Patch dolls. So they're like kind of soft or they're just black skin with frizzy hair.

Josh: Yeah. And so anyway, this woman at the airport, I don't even know if you can say the words actually.

Tommy: Well, we have.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And someone said, oh, is that a gollywog?

Josh: Oh, you said it again.

Tommy: And she said, yes, and I hate how people always judge it. This is mine from my childhood. It's my gollywog.

Josh: This— yeah, this was— this is when I was okay to be racist.

Tommy: And it was so bizarre. Anyway, the smoking story, I saw—

Josh: well, that's how you're gonna end that. But just— yeah, I don't complete— like, I just want to, um, get big asterisks. Asterisks. Asterisk. Asterisk, whatever the fuck the word is.

Tommy: The thing that looks like a star.

Josh: Yeah, the starry thing.

Tommy: With some words after it.

Josh: With a star. No idea about the history of gollywogs, don't know what it means. Associate, I associate a little bit with like the equivalent of doing blackface, but I have no idea about it.

Tommy: Interesting. That's another topic. So walking through the park a couple of days ago and I saw this, and as I was walking there, a woman ran past me.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Full jogging gear.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Exercise lay day. And then as I go through the park, there she is sitting down, just punching a darry.

Josh: And guess who it was? Sandra Sully. I look alike.

Tommy: I don't know if it was.

Josh: No, it wasn't. Fuck, how does it— like, there's one guest we're never going to be able to have on. No, but I actually— the thing is, let's be very, very clear because I feel like this is very important. I remember hearing a, um, I remember hearing a podcast about, this would be 6 years ago, and there was a guy, it was a comedy podcast, and these guys were making fun of these dudes.

Tommy: We're not making fun of anyone.

Josh: The funny thing was that I recently heard a podcast where the dudes that they were making fun of ended up being guests on the show. I'm just like, you don't wanna—

Tommy: Are we gonna be on Sandra Sully's podcast?

Josh: No, I'm saying that we might be, Sandra Sully might come on our podcast.

Tommy: We should get her on the show to discuss all all things darts.

Josh: Yeah, maybe we could.

Tommy: Well, maybe not specifically that, but look, she's got, um, we'll weave it in and say I may have said this. I'd like to get her on, that'd be fun.

Josh: I don't know if she'll want to come on.

Tommy: No, she probably wouldn't.

Josh: Uh, anyway, this woman in the park just punching a darry after taking a run.

Tommy: She was exercising the same fucking park I'd seen a dude like, um, it was in his Lycra gear, had clipped off and was standing, so he's like just standing on the ground with his bike in between his legs, a racer bike. So he's like a full exercise nut.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I looked over and he was smoking with a plastic glove on.

Josh: Uh, yeah, sure.

Tommy: And then he put out his cigarette, pulled his glove off, put it into the back pocket, and rode off on his bike, clipped back in. Exercise and smoking, it's a real— the most counterproductive things you could possibly do, punching a dowry and then doing your exercise.

Josh: It's not ideal, is it? There's a real push at the moment on the hallucinogenics. I haven't listened to the full Tim Ferriss podcast. He had Michael Pollan on, who's the guy who wrote the book Omnivore's Dilemma, and every hippie's getting on board being like, bro, fucking told you. What? The shrooms are— where it's at.

Tommy: Yes, I haven't done shrooms or any hallucinogen— hallucinogenic drugs. No, I, uh, they're the kind of drugs that scare me.

Josh: But even, even things like weed, you know, like there's a— there's such a celebration of weed at the moment with legalisation in different parts of the US. Uh, there's all these businesses.

Tommy: Fucking try before you judge, bro.

Josh: No, but I just— no, I don't think I can. I feel like that's a setup if I've ever heard one. It's like, bro, like you're never gonna know. It's like you with kids, it's like, mate, you won't understand until you have one. And then I'm gonna have one, you're like, aha, like, good luck sleeping, bro. It's like, so just like kids, kids are in a lot of ways like weed, is it's like, it could be this really, could be this amazing experience, or it could ruin your life.

Tommy: I mean, it's saying, like saying you could, going to the gym's healthy for you, but it could become the death of you.

Josh: That's exactly what you just said though.

Tommy: You said it could be—

Josh: no, it could be that. So it could be this. So weed, for some people, from what I've heard, uh, it can be a relaxant if you have anxiety and all that sort of thing. But there's a lot of people who— like, I worry that, uh, peak performance— like, not that I'm fucking peak performance at the moment, or even that's like, I'm not fucking Armstrong, I'm not like you know, doing crazy marathons or doing anything like that. But I just— maybe it's just I just don't need another vice other than chocolate cake right now.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm not encouraging you to start at all. My first experience was very fucking scary.

Josh: If you put a cookie versus putting it like—

Tommy: if I bake it even more so, really. I've done it all. And the reason I stopped smoking weed 10 years ago is that I made these cookies and Holy shit, they f— So it's a completely different high, taking something and it being processed through your pancreas within, so through your guts, it processes completely different. So the drug itself, THC, is sent through the body completely differently. So it gives you a different feeling. It's the closest to having it being like a psychedelic. And it fucked— I, my mind was going a million miles an hour.

Josh: Oh, I don't need that.

Tommy: Yeah, so never do cookies.

Josh: Could you imagine the phone call you would get?

Tommy: Bro, please help, I'm just fucking— I'm thinking all that, I've got this—

Josh: I want to talk about the podcast. Let's do all the episodes. James told you not to.

Tommy: But yeah, yeah, so my first experience of both of those were very fucking bad.

Josh: Yeah, I don't know, I, I don't think that for my—

Tommy: You're drunk, just give it a rest. Yeah, or don't start.

Josh: I've gone into coffee. I've already started adding like 2 shots to all my coffees. Is that good?

Tommy: I mean, drug pusher, you make me feel better about myself.

Josh: Yeah, you need to remember to drink more water. I feel like dehydrated all the time. I feel like, like fucking dry inside. I'm not drinking enough. Anyway, it's the Daily Talk Show, everyone.

Tommy: James, sorry, bro.

Josh: Yeah, for the reference that Tommy's mentioning, it's that my brother James Jansen mentioned that we talk too much about the podcast specifically on the podcast.

Tommy: And probably what he's referring to is you talk too much about it.

Josh: Potentially.

Tommy: He's being nice. He's a— he seemed like a very lovely guy.

Josh: Yeah. Do you know what, uh, we're getting a lot more listeners. We're fucking— we're peaking. We're like, uh, you know, month on month the growth is unbelievable. If we were a startup, um, if we were making money off this thing, could you imagine?

Tommy: No, just be like a startup.

Josh: We're still making no money. This is This is the truth. But we're getting a lot more listeners, but the fuckers aren't leaving reviews on iTunes. We've just been stagnant. The last one we got—

Tommy: TBH, the amount of reviews I've left in the podcast space, so little to the amount I've listened to.

Josh: It's the equivalent of like happy birthdays. You know, every year I probably write 2 happy birthday messages on Facebook. But I'll get like 80 every— I'm like, fuck, there's 78 people who are giving me a birthday message that I haven't wished them happy birthday. And maybe it's equivalent. Maybe I need to be doing more reviews on podcasts for the review karma to help me out.

Tommy: I agree with you and I might start doing the same.

Josh: Yeah, I try actually, that's one thing I'm trying to do is mention podcasts, mention like giving people—

Tommy: He's done it again, James.

Josh: I'm talking about podcasting, yeah. No, but no, I'm enjoying doing that where it's like actually, because I'm spending so much time listening to stuff, going in and saying, okay, you should listen to this. Very quickly, your old co-host, Stacy June.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: She's part of the—

Tommy: What's Stacy up to?

Josh: She's part of the Thinker Girls, which was a podcast initially, then did the whole radio thing and then went back out and did it again. Doing podcasts. Anyway, I really enjoyed— I was listening to a few episodes and they had this great episode where they were talking about their transition from going the whole radio route to the podcast thing.

Tommy: And you raved about this to me.

Josh: Yeah, I think it was a fucking great episode and I respect what they're doing. So if you, uh, if you have a podcast, one comment that I got from someone was they were put off by the Vagisil ad at the front. There was like a, I think it was a vagina-specific ad that was being served, 'cause female-focused, but—

Tommy: I've just on that company, Vagisil.

Josh: I think it's Vagisil, maybe it's not Vagisil.

Tommy: No, I know there's a Vagisil out there, but I've always gone, why'd you go with that name?

Josh: Yeah, so the episode that I really liked was episode 46, and they're talking about passionate people and whether they're happier, which I thought was interesting. But yeah, there are just some fucking guns doing a, a podcast, just trying to fucking hustle like the rest of us.

Tommy: Stace is a real hustler.

Josh: Yeah, they both are. Yeah, they're both fucking smashing it. Anyway, it's The Daily Talk Show, everyone. If you've got a podcast too, let us know at hi@thedailytalkshow.com so we can have a listen to it. And if we like it, we'll talk about it. If we don't, we just won't mention it.

Tommy: We'll defame you.

Josh: Exactly. Have a good one.