Cacklin' Jack Post's new job with Christian O'Connell

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show. I'm Josh Janson.

Tommy: I'm Tommy Jackett.

Josh: And this is the conversation sometimes worth recording. We're at episode 90.

Tommy: Whoa.

Josh: Yeah, that's 10 off 100.

Tommy: Correct.

Josh: And we've got this special guest, Jack Post.

Jack: Are you guys counting 90 as a milestone?

Tommy: Definitely.

Jack: Because I saw you did— counted 70 as a milestone.

Tommy: Man, we counted 10 as a milestone.

Josh: Everything's a milestone in the beginning.

Jack: So it's not just 50, 100, 150. Every 10 with a zero on the end is a milestone.

Josh: All 10s.

Tommy: We've almost, we've had guests on almost every 10th, which, you know.

Josh: That wasn't deliberate.

Jack: It's just happened that way. Well, it's an honour to be part of the milestone episode.

Josh: Yeah, thank you. 90.

Tommy: Thanks for joining us.

Josh: Unlike 89, which you were going to be initially.

Tommy: It's actually good that you couldn't do 89. That's a shit number.

Jack: Yeah, but maybe you don't know if I did that purposefully. I found out it was 89, I was like, better I don't do 89.

Tommy: Josh has been hooking you for a week about coming on. He built you up.

Jack: Yes, I've heard about this. And he first started doing it before he even asked me to be on the show.

Josh: Yeah, I did. I think I hooked, and then before I put it live, I said, Jack, will you come on the show?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so for people who don't know, Jack Post is his name. You are known as Cackling Jack. From Hamish and Andy and, uh, the podcast now that they do. Yep.

Tommy: And, uh, who came out with that?

Jack: Uh, one of the two of the Hamish or Andy. It wasn't talked about before it happened. I was just, um, laughing loudly in the background. And at first, when I first started that laughing in the background, I was trying to emphasise it, or, you know, I was laughing more than I usually would because I wanted to tell people later on, it's like, "Oh, you hear that guy laughing in the back?" And now it's stuck.

Josh: Do you feel like I've been—

Jack: And now I've got to force that laugh every single episode.

Josh: But do you think there is a little bit of that? I reckon in the sense that when I listen to or watch like live streams and stuff like that, the laughing that people are doing doesn't always connect with how funny the thing is that they're doing. Do you reckon that when the mics are on, there's a natural inclination to wanna laugh more.

Jack: Yeah, I don't think we're, I mean, I don't do this. I don't feel like I do this, but I think some radio shows try to make a synthetic vibe in the room of this is really fun by laughing more than what is funny.

Josh: Than what makes sense.

Tommy: Yeah. I reckon I definitely push the laugh as well, but not, you know, I think there's a different element in an airlocked room where you're turned on the mics and you're live, like it adds a different pressure.

Jack: Definitely, it's like being at a live comedy show versus watching comedy on your TV. Yeah, things are funny. Yeah, you're more ready, you're in the state to laugh and want to give yourself to that moment.

Josh: Yeah, and so radio, that's been like basically your main show.

Jack: Sorry, do you guys do much laughing on this show?

Tommy: Fuck all.

Josh: Hey, Sam. We only laugh if things are funny. Probably 1 in every 5 shows.

Jack: A little milestone in itself.

Tommy: Yeah, now sometimes we get really get real silly, and it's usually when it's just Josh and I. Yeah, more swearing comes out.

Jack: Can we— I don't know if we're allowed to say, but we're in the presence of a fourth person today. Yeah, it's true.

Tommy: Riley's here.

Jack: So it's, it's like, I know we're recording this to be heard by other people, but there is a sense of being self-conscious that there's somebody on the other side of the room tapping away at their laptop who's listening to our whole conversation.

Tommy: Earphones on but listening to nothing, and she's listening to us.

Josh: And is the, she literally got the MacBook microphone on and has boosted it to try and hear a bit clearer.

Tommy: That's a good idea.

Josh: Hey, there's a laugh.

Jack: She's bootlegging the show. Exactly. You can get an early version of Dave Portnoy.

Josh: I just got a notification that we are live streaming right now. Who's doing that? So radio is a thing that you've known for most of your life, hey? That's been your—

Tommy: Yeah, do you know anything else?

Jack: I know a few other things as well as radio.

Josh: What are the few things? What are the things that you know outside of radio, do you think? What do you identify with? Do you think?

Jack: Um, I guess music.

Josh: Yeah, kung fu, fighting, fighting, MMA, street fighting.

Jack: Um, no, I guess, uh, I don't know, I'm pretty basic. I like music, I like footy.

Josh: Yeah, the footy. Are you still doing that? So you also were doing stuff for Essendon?

Jack: Yeah, I was doing a podcast as well, but that is no more.

Josh: Oh, because now you're sadly— yeah, on to other things. So you announced on Friday that you're doing this Christian O'Connell breakfast show thingy majiggy.

Jack: Yeah, that's right. So it's, uh, radio playing to one of the things I know. Yes, one of the three, one of the three things I know.

Tommy: Well, if you know three things, it's, it's good. Stick to your three things.

Jack: Yeah, I can't wait.

Josh: Music, it's got— it's gonna have music on there, which will be—

Jack: we'll play music. And what was the other thing I like? Footy. Oh yeah, triple M. Yeah, probably should be triple sports. I don't imagine, but who knows.

Tommy: So I read the, um, there was those articles that came out on the, um, radio.

Josh: I really want to say today.

Tommy: Yeah, Radio Today. But I was going to say the, the radio circle jerk website.

Josh: Yes.

Jack: Yes.

Tommy: I think everyone who has been in radio, me being one, that's putting my hand in there and jerking them off.

Josh: It's true.

Tommy: He's interested in this stuff. And that's where I saw an article come out about you making the— is it the move? What are you— are you finishing up with the Hamish and Andy?

Jack: No, I'll keep doing Hamish and Andy podcast, but we only do it once a week now. So I've been, um, I've just been having a 5 or 6 day weekend between every Hamish and Andy podcast. And now I'll go back to just working like a normal person 5 days a week, but I'll be able to do the podcast because you finish breakfast radio at 9 AM. So I'll be able to jump into the podcast once a week, um, and still continue doing Hamish and Andy and then doing this Christian O'Connell show as well. Because are you guys familiar with him at all? How well do you know?

Josh: Yeah, so I don't know, I remember, um, the simulcast that H&A did with him in 2012. Yeah, so they—

Jack: that's the first time I met him as well.

Josh: Yeah, so they did like a, um, yeah, is this a similar, similar—

Jack: his London breakfast show or UK breakfast show, uh, by coincidence of the time difference, was on at the same time as Hamish and Andy's, um, drive home show. So we were in London for the Olympics in 2012 doing the gap year and we broadcast in his studio to his entire audience and our entire audience at the same time. It's one of the— it was honestly one of the cool—

Josh: it's just like a radio geek's heaven. Do you know, was it like ISDN or did you—

Jack: how was it connected? I guess it was ISDN.

Tommy: Jack couldn't hear anything, he was laughing in the background.

Jack: It was a bit of a radio geek's heaven. I loved the idea of doing it and then a lot of the show, that show became about complicating and deconstructing, you know, are we gonna listen to your news? Are we gonna listen to our news?

Josh: Whose ads?

Jack: Whose ads are we gonna do? Have you got a sponsor? Have we got a sponsor that we have to mention? So the whole show became about essentially the logistics of running two shows at once.

Josh: That's it. My brother gave me feedback on this podcast and I said, do you have any feedback? He said, just stop talking about podcasts. On the podcast. 'Cause I think we can get meta. Like when you get really excited about it, you can start getting really, and I know that—

Jack: Well, you guys are both, well, I know Josh especially, you're a bit of a gearhead. So you love your like technology and your stuff. Are you the same, Tommy?

Tommy: I'm the same. It's just steroids instead.

Josh: I'm the gearhead.

Jack: So you guys on steroids easily talk about these Sennheiser Volt Evolution.

Tommy: Yeah, evolution.

Jack: Did I do it?

Josh: It was upside down for Jack's defense.

Tommy: Did I dub it the digital chubby?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, the digital—

Tommy: I'm pretty sure I came up with that.

Josh: Russ Keys, who's a friend of the show listener, he was saying that he loved that phrase, but I can't remember.

Tommy: So Josh fucking gets so excited, put a new piece of technology in front of him, he's, oh yeah, oh, look at them, look at the little knobs on that.

Josh: Yeah, let's go.

Jack: Like, yeah, so do you— does every episode end up talking about, you know, the gods and the equipment?

Josh: It's not the equipment, it's more about like the Other podcasts? No, oh, it's not even that. No, it's like me being like, mate, we're doing it.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, he's taken advice not to talk about it and he's weaved it into a show and now we're talking about it.

Josh: No, but do you think, Jack, are you a, um, on the spectrum of geekery, how geeky are you about radio?

Jack: No, I'm, I would be, yeah, I guess I'm a little bit closeted. I would say, I openly, I would say not very, but then, um you know, because I've done it for so long, been in radio, and I, and I do care about it. I would say less about the tech but more about the, the content, the content, and like who's where and what shows are happening and who's doing well, who's not doing well.

Tommy: You're reading those websites I mentioned.

Jack: Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm part of the circle jerk. Definitely.

Josh: I, I, it's his home page.

Tommy: I do like, we're all currently holding hands right now.

Josh: You can't see it, but, and the, um, because I was Like, I definitely get in all elements, so I get into the tech stuff, but I've been trying to listen to other shows all around the world. Have you ever listened to Howard Stern? Because I've been trying to get on to Sirius, like, get a subscription through Sirius, but they really lock it down, right?

Jack: Um, yeah, the most I've listened to Howard Stern would be on YouTube clips, so people who rip stuff and put it up, but I don't know if you can get the show start to finish every day in any way.

Tommy: You can watch on YouTube. They've done some really messed up stuff. I watched this one episode because they video it too, where they just had a line of blokes that would come into the center.

Josh: Unbelievable. This is absurd.

Tommy: They'd walk up in front of camera, this is like a real live radio talk, they'd pull their pants down, bend over, and show their hemorrhoids. And it was an episode all about dudes who have hemorrhoids, and it was like rating the worst hemorrhoids.

Josh: We're gonna have to take that off our Trello board of things that we're going to do if it's already been done.

Tommy: So Jack, turnover.

Josh: No, but the—

Jack: Do you guys do any stunts or any—

Josh: No. The closest stunty thing I think we do is using location as a talking point.

Jack: I would call that, so we call it like, I guess this is a pretty broad radio term, but like going next level. Like what's your next level idea? And you guys going out to Shepparton or going to Krispy Kreme or whatever you do, that's a next level idea.

Josh: Yeah, and so that's the, you know, talk it looking outside our frequency. Frequency, as Sam Cav used to always say. I use that in client meetings and people love it.

Tommy: Looking outside our frequency.

Josh: Yeah, so we'd be like, so the example is it's like, okay, if you're on Fox and you want to, you've got, you know you have the listeners listening, they're engaged, but if you go to Fountaingate Shops and do a live show from there, you're now reaching people who are outside of your frequency. They're not even tuned into the radio, but they're seeing you and they can connect with you.

Tommy: Noisemakers. Yeah, that's a big word in the radio industry.

Jack: So is it working for you guys, those Krispy Kreme appearance, Shepparton appearance?

Tommy: Thanks for asking. Here is— Fuck, this is going full podcast meta, but we're talking with someone who is in the radio industry and this is—

Josh: It's very true.

Tommy: It's their domain. It's about like Noisemaker is literally— I had people who didn't even listen to the shows but said, oh, I saw you at Krispy Kreme on the internet. And it's like, I think that's half of Hamish and Andy's stuff that you've been a part of.

Jack: So true.

Tommy: I didn't listen to this shit that you were at the— Here we go. No, the stuff you were running, there was something going on at the athletics thing at the end of Clarendon Street. There was something big thing you guys were doing at OB from there.

Jack: Yep.

Tommy: I just remember the noise it created and I didn't even listen to it. Yeah. But I felt a part of it. I saw a piece of video later on and I heard you laughing and I had enough.

Jack: It's so true that video with, with Facebook and Instagram that video has become so powerful for radio because people, I think, assume they've heard parts of the show that they actually haven't heard and they've just seen on social media. But they'll— it gives people who aren't listening to this show a sense that they have heard the show and they'll say, yeah, I've heard Hamish Nandy before, of course.

Tommy: On those news articles, it said that you are the producer/sidekick. Well, how much producing? What does that mean? What does that really look like for you?

Jack: Yeah, Christian's show.

Tommy: Yeah, Christian's show.

Josh: Is that Jay-Z style producing? I don't know.

Jack: Well, you got like We all know that the producer as a title is probably the most least respected thing from an audience perspective. No one knows really what the producer does.

Tommy: Yeah.

Jack: That goes for films, anything.

Josh: Yeah. Well, it's so dependent. So in like what an executive producer does in radio is so different to what an executive producer does within film. And even when I went to the National Association of Broadcasters Expo in Vegas, Bri was, with me and she has been working on the business as a producer and I said to her, I was like, I'll give you a, we had to put a name, like a suggested title and we put executive producer and she was just embarrassed the whole time going through these big, like you've got big Hollywood DOPs, like all these top Hollywood professionals and then there's Bruce.

Tommy: DOPs in films are a lot of the time money. Yeah, just throwing coin into it. Just throwing coin into it.

Josh: Things like that, but yeah, so you, 'Cause you would do it—

Jack: But would you say then for radio, which is the idea of radio is it's just a few people in a room having a conversation. So from an audience member's point of view who doesn't know too much about the behind the scenes, their idea of a producer is like, well, what does that person do? Isn't it just two guys sitting in a room talking? You're like, oh yeah, but you get, like we help get the calls on, invite guests on air. So it's just like, oh. Well, you almost—

Josh: It sounds pretty easy. But it feels like some of these and the geekier the shows, like Carl and Jackie O are a good example of a radio geek show because they do get meta. They have, they bring in the producer elements and stuff like that. And having—

Tommy: That was my Shake Weight.

Josh: There was a Shake Weight that Jack was playing. We would have had some vision of that to be able to show, but—

Jack: I didn't put it back on the shelf properly.

Josh: That's okay. No, so yeah, these, but even with Christian O'Connell, his show is very much designed for the radio geeks because Richie, his sidekick that was on his show at Absolute Radio in London.

Tommy: How big was his show, by the way, over there?

Josh: 2 million people, was it, listeners?

Tommy: Yeah.

Jack: Whoa.

Josh: So it's pretty big. And so yeah, I think, so producer-wise, I think there's a shift potentially that's happening where it's like, as people are respecting the process of things more, so people like the behind the scenes, you're seeing content on the side, all that sort of thing. I reckon a producer in my eyes is an anchor with a little bit more weight. Good metaphor. But in the sense that it's, you are, there might be some level of steering. And I think as a sidekick, potentially you'll do a little bit of that where it's like you're a sounding board, but you're also producing content. You're actually a writer. I think probably a writer is a better terminology.

Tommy: Have they just got you on so that Christian doesn't say pro, pro-ran and fucking all this stuff?

Josh: You're there just to say Berwick when it comes to it.

Jack: Yeah, Berwick. Yeah, exactly. I think you agree, I agree with you, Josh. I used to say, even though my title was a producer on Hamish Andy for a long time, I used to say I was a writer for that show because I think that more lends itself to what people know. People associate the word writer with somebody who's coming up with the ideas for the show.

Josh: Yeah, it's a comedy term too, right? Which I think is pretty well known. Yeah. To have writers within comedy.

Jack: Yeah, so I used to, —because I was much more a creative producer on the Hamish and Andy Show. So I was mostly working with the content rather than working with logistics or administration. That's why I like to call that role a writer. But that's the same thing I'll do for Christian is I won't be handling logistics or admin. I'll just be doing the fun stuff, which is coming up with ideas and—

Josh: It's content. That's funny.

Tommy: That's one of your three: football, radio, and creative. Yeah, something creative, I think.

Josh: And that's how you got rid of music.

Tommy: Um, radio, that can fit in there.

Josh: Yeah, I think— no, but I think that's the thing is that what you do within radio, like, radio is selling it so fucking short, right? Because it's like, it is creative content that lives so far beyond like just the speakers now.

Tommy: All right, hang on, what's the, what's the biggest idea you've come up with for the Hamish Shandie Show? That I don't think— it's not like you're trying to take credit, but something you're super proud of? I'm a bit of a— take credit. No, take credit.

Jack: Yeah, that whole show is so collaborative.

Josh: So that whole show, it's hard not to be able to take my finger out of any aspect. Bit of that vibe?

Jack: Um, well, for things that people would know, and I'm not going to ever take credit for an idea in its whole state, however, but however, I guess the I came up with the first idea, which would later become the idea of us being— the three of us being in a band. Uh, great. Which was Adam Lambert was coming in and he had a song at the time, which I'm gonna forget, but essentially it was just acoustic guitar and, and one riff on a piano, I think. And I said to the guys, it's like, why don't you just— he's not coming with a band, so why don't you perform it with him? Andy, you play guitar. Hamish can do like, I'm sure he can figure out the 3 notes on the piano. Yeah. And Adam Lambert ended up saying no to that idea, but then it came back around again for Rob Thomas, who is where the idea originally started on air.

Josh: He's the Matchbox 20 guy?

Jack: He's from Matchbox 20. He also wrote the song Smooth with Santana, which is the first song that we ever played, Hamish, Andy, and myself as a band with Rob Thomas. And then the band became a really big part of the show because we went on tour and we, you know, we took a tour bus up the east coast of Australia. And then last year we got a private jet and zigzagged across Australia playing shows. So that is one of my proudest moments.

Tommy: That's awesome. That's creativity, right? You plant something, evolves. You have an idea, you sleep on it, or it you bank it because it won't work then and it just starts compounding. Yeah, that's so true.

Jack: And that's no idea on that show was ever like, it's gonna be someone coming in and pitching and go, this is exactly how it's gonna work, this is step 1, step 2, then you say that, and then step 3, and then at the end we'll be able to go on a band tour. Yeah, it's always just the, the seed of an idea, and if people think it's funny, then you take it on air and then it grows and it goes off in its own little natural organic paths and finds its own life like that.

Josh: It's a, yeah, it's an organic narrative that's built out through what happens on the show versus trying to fucking reverse engineer it in the background and then trying to have those.

Jack: And I think that's one of the things Hamish and Andy always did really well is be honest that that process, they don't know where it's going to end up. Whereas I think sometimes if you look at Hamish and Andy's show and you're trying to recreate it, you go, oh well, we need to get to a big idea at the end, like taking a band on tour and taking it around the country. But if you start with that idea and then try and work your way back, it's never gonna be as funny as if you just start with a small idea and then try to amplify it while it grows naturally.

Tommy: How good is it when you have a caller that says something that sparks an idea to then go after a pig that knows how to open fridge door and it steals beer? Like this is what happened in Shepherd of— But it's like, We put it out there, we mentioned something and someone mentioned something about a smart pet and then it just evolved. It's like—

Jack: I always feel like they're the best radio ideas.

Josh: They're the best. But it's even the, that's what I like about the podcast is the listen, not to bring it back to the podcast, but the— Be the death of us. The people that listen, you know, it started off like Derek who has Aussie Vines. It's Derek. Very good callback and sort of local content, which is great. No, there's a guy, Derek, who we've had on the show who has a scooter repair shop and he built a podcast studio. Sick. In his old dyno room.

Tommy: It's got hammocks in there. You do the podcast from hammocks.

Josh: Yeah, sure. Anyway, he listens to the show and we've had him on and all these people that we've had on, we have had on Trevor Long who was at 2GB for years and does all the tech stuff on the production.

Jack: So you're trying to invite as many podcasters as you can onto this show.

Josh: Yeah, well, we're definitely trying, we're definitely interested in having people who like having conversations. And so I have just naturally been listening to a lot of shows. So then we have that.

Tommy: You were going somewhere with that though.

Josh: What were you saying? Yeah, I think that, no, it was just around that guest. Like you naturally have that community that you're building from, right? And you know, like so many things that we have planned are because someone said, oh, you can use my space for this. Yeah, sure.

Tommy: And that, fuck, it's like anything. You never knew that Hamish and Andy would be as big as it is. When you— do you feel— I've known you for ages, but I don't even know how you became a part of that. What, what happened?

Jack: Yeah, so this is my 10th year with Hamish and Andy this year. So in 2008, I started working at Fox FM, uh, just as a panel operator in the nighttime, which means a show would come down the line from Sydney that's been broadcast nationally, and I was in Melbourne just making sure it went to air in Melbourne. And so I would finish at the same time that— sorry, I would start at the same time Hamish and Andy finished each day. So I would see them on that changeover and then slowly just started offering to help out where I could. And if I could sit in on their meetings or, you know, learn to panel their show as well. And that's how I got involved with that show over time. But it was probably, it had one successful year in 2007, I think, And it was so— it's already starting to ramp up. And then the next few years, 2008, '09, and 2010, were, you know, it became one of the biggest radio shows.

Josh: Were you ever a listener that would call up shows? Have you listened to shows and been a caller? No, I never—

Jack: before I started working in radio, I, I— no, I just never was that kind of person, even though I enjoyed shows and loved them and thought even if I thought I could add a funny storey to it, there's just the type of person who doesn't want to engage with that.

Josh: Yeah, I do.

Jack: And that's why we, funnily enough, we've talked about it behind the scenes of Hey Machine Andy before that you get a different type of person corresponding with the show on email than you do the type of person who will call the show. And we started, you know, in those, in like 2013, '14, we really started to use emails a lot on the show as well as calling.

Josh: During Business Brian, share all those shows.

Jack: Yeah, we did a show called Happy Hour and Business Brunch, which was just a 1-hour mini show, and we really used a lot of emails in that show because it just brought in a different type of listener and fan of the show.

Josh: It was pre-recorded, you just had to purely do it out of necessity too, right?

Jack: That's how it started, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But now even to the shows last year, we would still use emails as another tool rather than just the phones.

Josh: What do you find being the biggest difference between pre-recording and doing a show live?

Jack: Live has just got a natural buzz and chemical in the air that it's hard to explain, but whatever it is, it just—

Tommy: It's the chemical that makes you laugh, isn't it?

Jack: Yeah, it just gets you a bit more fired up and it's a bit more real. So you have to work a little harder in a pre-record to get that and to make a space that allows you to go there even though it's a bit pre-recording. Yeah, because if you—

Josh: I guess the, the risk doing it live is that something could go wrong, which I guess boosts that adrenaline and which gets things exciting. That's right. Pressure makes diamonds. Yeah, I like that one.

Jack: Um, and then the other major one is the immediate feedback of live radio. So you can ask for a caller who's been to Disneyland this year and then they'll call you, but if you're pre-recording, obviously you can't do that.

Josh: And how much of your— how much of of Hamish and Andy would be adapted depending on the types of callers? So for instance, you've got the run sheet at the beginning of the show. Yeah. Were you guys pretty pedantic on sticking with that or would you regularly chuck things out? Giving a bit of an insight for people who don't sort of understand.

Jack: Yeah, I reckon we would, we would definitely chuck stuff out, but we would keep pretty well to the run sheet. We worked hard before the show. That's one thing that that show always did is work hard before the show to come up with ideas that we felt were foolproof. So they would— whether they failed or not, they would still be funny. And there was a high chance that people getting involved with the show, whether it's on phones or on, um, online or on email, would, would be able to contribute in a funny way. So we, we pretty much stayed with the run sheet unless, um, something really spontaneous and fun caught our attention, and then that's when we would deviate from it.

Josh: Yeah, and because Drive Show, I guess, is known as being sort of the opportunity to relax after a long day, Breakfast is sort of more topical, covering what's been happening. Is there— is that going to be a big shift, do you think, for you having to— do you naturally keep abreast of what's happening in the world, talking about the royal family, all that shit?

Jack: Yeah, you know what, but if it sounds like you've listened to a bit of Christian Show, it's not a super topical show. Yeah. I think it will sound a little bit different to what Melbourne breakfast shows sound like where they are very what's in the newspaper heavy shows.

Josh: It's not like the Hot Breakfast where it's— No, definitely not. Yeah, okay.

Jack: Yeah, it's a bit more, to be honest, it's a bit more like what we did with Hamish and Andy, whereas you make your own world and play in it rather than reflect what is in the news. But obviously that has— comes with its exceptions.

Tommy: It's, um, it's funny, the job you have, and I've been there too, is like, it's public knowledge, right? So it's this weird thing. It's not like you've just landed a job at a, you know, finance company and now it's publicised everywhere. It's such an interesting thing, you know, like you see Hamish Nanny, these real big celebrities now that have crafted about, you know, your kind of at the back of that? I don't think it's, you know, you're starting to make this name for yourself now, which is awesome, and it's a different path for your career. But what's it like, sort of, I know what it felt like for me when it's, you get this job and then it's put out there and it's like you're receiving this feedback. How do you deal with that?

Jack: How do you feel about that? Yeah, well, I actually said to my wife after I, so on Friday I put on Instagram that I would be starting with Christian, and I got Really, I was so surprised by how much positive feedback I got from it and the overwhelming response from friends and even people in the industry that I don't know very well who reached out with goodwill and congratulations. So I said to her, I was like, "This feels so good. I wish I was announcing a new job like every week because this has been an amazing feeling." And she pointed out that it's a kind of a rare, spot where it's like having a wedding.

Josh: You're not gonna, like, you can say, oh, that's a great opportunity, like it felt great, but you can't do it next week.

Tommy: It's more engagement. You know, when you get engaged and it's like this fucking, you haven't even done the wedding.

Jack: You haven't even done anything. You've not even done anything yet. Yeah, that's true. That's a good way to put it.

Tommy: Yeah. But you're getting all this positive affirmation. Well done, dude.

Josh: Yeah. And great content.

Tommy: You've gone from 3 years of very little sleep or however long you do the show for. Yeah. You've got the hard work still to come, but you've—

Jack: That's right, but I'm already cashing in on all the good feelings. Yeah, it does have a little bit of that feeling to it. Like now I've got the adoration and I just have to do the hard work to earn it.

Josh: Well, that's like the equivalent of, there's a TED Talk about don't tell people your New Year's resolutions for this very reason, because it lets off the same thing in your brain that if you actually did it. It.

Jack: So yeah, sometimes I heard that about like if you're going to run a marathon, before you even start training, you're telling everyone and you already feel good. You're like, geez, I'm like, yeah, I'm running a damn marathon.

Tommy: You'll actually feel worse doing the marathon. Yeah, because it's not— it's going to be painful. Yeah. What about thinking ahead for the show? Because I know I've, I've been a part of two new shows, as in co-hosting with two new people, and I just know the the road ahead and that being good or bad? You know, it's like ups and downs of any show. You're annoyed at the co-host. Yeah. How do you think ahead to that?

Jack: The one thing is just the unknown. Like I've only ever worked on one radio show, which is Hamish Andy for 10 years. Before that, the only thing I did was work in community radio, which is way, way different because you've got no budget, no resources, nothing.

Josh: And nothing to lose.

Tommy: And that sounds very similar to Shepparton that I was in. You should have actually just done Sinned.

Josh: I think they actually— At least I got 50 grand. At least I got something. No, Sin's paying 70 now. So yeah, so one big show, you've had one.

Jack: Yeah, so I've only worked on one show really. And what I— So I know that show back to front now. What I don't know about Christian's show, even though I can listen to his current London version of the show, is really what it's going to be like. Like, you can't predict the dynamic that will occur naturally between us, um, on air, and what, what the kind of stuff we're going to have fun with and play with on air is going to sound like until you've got actually some shows under your belt.

Josh: Because it's the roles, like, don't just— aren't just interchangeable, right? So just like TJ, when you went from having Candy as a as a co-host, having Stacy, you don't have the same, same shtick. And it's like with Jack, what you're doing, what Richie brought to the table, like I've been listening for the— Richie's the sidekick, is it?

Jack: Yeah, that's right. So Richie's this— so it's Christian's breakfast show in the UK, but he has— he uses his news radio sports person, and then he has this role that's a sidekick, which is a section, essentially he's co-host, but you know, he's just not on the posters and stuff. So I'm going to be filling in standing into that role, but it's not like I can listen to Richie on their current show and go, all right, this is what Richie does. I'm not an actor who's gonna play Richie. I'm gonna have to be myself. So I'm not exactly like him. So the show's already gonna be different from that fact alone.

Tommy: It's always the exciting bit.

Josh: Yeah, I find it really interesting because I see the differences between Richie and Jack just listening. So Richie's this guy who, you know, they talk about he loves eating fudge.

Tommy: What's his 3 things? So fudge. He loves fudge. What else does he hate?

Josh: He loves Five Guys. They've been talking a lot about Five Guys. I don't know if that's some sort of— Five Guys, it's a burger chain. And the other thing too is he's not, he doesn't seem concerned with calorically like restricting what he eats at all. 'Cause he, not purely by what he looks like, but what he's eating, he's like, oh, he gets a thick shake and stuff like that. So, he likes food and then, Thirdly, I don't know, I think that there's definitely, he plays in naturally, I think, to that sidekick role or that relationship that you, similar to "Idiot Abroad." Oh, Karl Pilkington. Yeah, it's that similar thing where it's like, Karl for Ricky is an opportunity just to throw a few punches. And I was even watching—

Tommy: With someone he loves.

Josh: Yeah, and I was watching, What's the comedian's name? Is it something Carr? Ryan, Richard, Jimmy Carr. Jimmy Carr from like a few years ago was on Christian O'Connell. And it was interesting seeing Jimmy, is it Jimmy? Yep. Jimmy just slamming Richie, right? Like he just comes in and just be like, oh, you know, don't you, it looks like they've given you a voucher to this like food joint and you just haven't stopped, right? Just like this was that. And I was like, you know what, I don't know if that tone necessarily would translate in Australia. I feel like if you've got a new UK, if you've got a British dude coming to Australia on an Australian station, I feel like that's gonna be an interesting thing for Christian as well to work out, which is—

Tommy: So as soon as I heard Christian coming, I had my, you know, everyone's fucking in the radio spaces having a thought of something about it.

Josh: Well, you're on the radio today comments going like, what about the guys in Shepparton? Oh, another one.

Jack: You're anonymous, Tommy. Or the, uh, yeah, just another reality show.

Tommy: But as soon as I heard you were on it, I had a different tune because I was like, oh, I know Jack. Yeah, but I was thinking about my biggest thing. I've never heard him, but I was thinking about an English dude on an Australian station. I was thinking about Aussie people, they're attuned to hearing American stuff because it's based around celebrity and Hollywood. And then I was thinking about an English dude on a breakfast show in Melbourne Yeah, it will be interesting.

Jack: I don't disagree at all. I mean, British comedy definitely has its niche place in Australian humor. Like, I mean, I grew up loving British comedies, but that's not to say that every man on the street is going to be as readily open to British comedy and a British voice as much as I am. I think it'll be interesting to see how people if they give him a true chance and how they relate to the show and how they engage with the show as well.

Josh: And so is the, you know, do you think that the, you know, what's your role in it? Do you think, how do you sort of help that piece? Suburbs. Yeah, give some names.

Jack: Start with Berrick. It's a supportive role. I like, I've done that for a long time on Hamish and Andy, which is just It's a, you know, it's, it's, to be honest, there's a little bit of that punching bag, going back to that punching bag role, where you, you, you're saying things and you're doing things because you know that it's gonna make them laugh and they're gonna have fun making fun of you. It's like a self-deprecating, self-deprecating, and just, and you know what, you're just putting out there the quirky things about yourself, which everybody has them. Yeah, it's just whether you hold choose to hide them or you choose to let people play with them. Um, so that— I think that comes in a supportive role to give somebody else the chance to have fun with you and make fun of you and, and just, um, break down those barriers a little bit rather than if I'm trying to play a safe bat all the time and just trying to be— never get anything wrong so I can't be made fun of, then it's a pretty defensive thing to listen to.

Tommy: Yeah, it's interesting how even Josh talking about Ricky—

Josh: Richard— Richie.

Tommy: Yeah, it's like him, really doesn't even know him, reeling off all these things about him, which is the fascinating thing about the job you're in. Yeah, but people can listen. Yeah. And even less so podcast, I think people would be able to get a good grasp on who we are because it's long form, no break. We, we are pretty honest in a longer form, whereas radio, it's like short bursts, very chosen. Yeah. And so, and it's commercial radio, so there's all these things you can't do.

Jack: And especially, I think, in, in comedy, you're trying to— you're always trying to get to somewhere funny. So just sitting down and having an honest conversation like the three of us now is not going to be as funny as if we like pick on things about each other. That, yeah, is funny.

Tommy: It's catering to a different need though. I feel like radio for me now, I'm not into it because it doesn't cater to that long-form honest— in elements it does, but podcast is conducive to honesty and understanding a different perspective, actually having back and forth about a topic, which can't be done in 3 minutes.

Jack: True, and people are way more patient to listen to a podcast.

Josh: Yeah, and I guess the other thing too is Hamish and Andy, people use them as an example of of, you know, one of the most successful radio shows in the world and definitely here in Australia. The, um, the thing that they did was take a friendship and then run with that, whereas within the radio industry there's this sort of cherry-picking of talent and putting them in a room. Yeah. And then saying, be friends. So you spent—

Jack: well, and a lot of the time actually it's It's like, let's try and choose the opposite. So we've got the person who's type A, wouldn't it be funny if we put type B with them and match them together?

Tommy: Yeah, 'cause when you light it on fire, it'll blow up.

Jack: That's what they want, right? Yeah, but more recently, I guess trying to do the Hamish and Andy model, which is two friends are allowed to be in the same studio at the same time. People are trying to recreate that and it is tough. Like you just don't know how people are going to, what the dynamic is gonna be between two people. Even if they're both in their own right really talented, it doesn't mean that they're going to mesh together and make something better.

Josh: So you, you, uh, when was the first time you met Christian?

Jack: So in 2012, we did that Simulcast show, and that was the first time I met him. Uh, and, you know, we went out to breakfast, I think, after the show and, um, had a chat. And he, like, he's just such a lovely guy and such a genuine person. He's always— it doesn't matter that you're just like— because at that time I wasn't— I was a producer of the show, but, you know, lowly coffee running type guy. But he gave me the time of day back then. I, I'll still always remember that. And then now, I mean, he came to Australia last year, so he was here out, out here in August. So I got to chat to him again. That's before I even knew that that the show was coming. Was he chatting to Gold at that point?

Josh: Was he—

Jack: I guess he probably was. Yeah, it's all good. Now that I think about it, he probably was because he'd come out here on a holiday. And I think he's honest about he was seeing if his family liked it and if he— they could really all live out here. But I guess he probably was in discussion with the station already then.

Tommy: Do you reckon he knew that you could be a piece of the puzzle? I don't know.

Jack: I actually never— I never thought about— I actually don't know if he knew about the show because maybe he was just—

Tommy: I locked him in first and then said, mate, Kathleen Jackson. I feel like even he went from—

Jack: now that I think about it, I reckon he would have come out here and then gone back and then put the feelers out and said, hey, does anyone— does, you know, is there anyone who would like a new breakfast show?

Josh: Well, I, I think even before that, he would probably— I reckon his first pick would have been to bring his team, right? Like, he— like, given the, the relationship that he's had But it just wouldn't go right. Like having two British dudes coming in.

Jack: Yeah, I don't think you could just transplant the whole show and have, I mean, there's four people in there, four British voices on Melbourne Breakfast wouldn't make sense. But you're right, it is a lot for him to give up Richie because they've done it together for 12 years.

Josh: He was tearing, they were both tearing up on air on Friday on their last show.

Jack: So he did his last show on Friday, yeah.

Tommy: I did hear about it. It's all heightened emotion. Tearing up. I was also very hungover on my last show in Shepparton. You are, you're spinning.

Jack: Did you tear up on your last show? Oh yeah, I felt a bit emotional.

Tommy: I was hung though, you know, when you get a bit—

Jack: So what was the circumstances of you leaving Shepparton? Um, I quit.

Tommy: So I was like, I was just done. And I had met Amy and she was living in Sydney and we're doing long distance, so I ended up just— I was like, nah, this is not going anywhere.

Josh: And I, I think you, you actually You outgrew the relationship.

Tommy: The relationship was great. Thanks, Josh. No, that's okay. But I think I got to a point where it's like you literally are just here earning money now because you've learned as much as you can in this environment. Not to say I knew everything about radio, but you go to a big city, it's a new ball game. Yeah, yeah. New people, new ideas. And so I was like, I could stay on, maybe it'll work. But I actually, I wasn't committed to the the show. Yeah, sure. And I wanted to be with Amy, so I left there. Where was I going with that?

Jack: Uh, so do you think there would have been more opportunities for you if you stayed, or do you—

Tommy: maybe I might have been able to, but I don't think I was committed to radio in its form. 100% wasn't, because I think you're this new—

Josh: yeah, you're similar probably to what Jules was— Jules Lund was always facing, which is like you've got this platform radio, which is the thing you're meant to focus on, but there's this really bright and shiny digital thing that you— toy that you want to play with more. Yeah. And So yeah, I feel like what you're doing now, TJ, is like more aligned, which is like— Yeah, 100%. It's all of these things. It's storytelling, it's creativity, but it's not necessarily one over the other. They all sort of play sort of interchangeably.

Tommy: If I got offered, like if I actually landed a job in Melbourne or something, I probably would've come back or kept going with it, but it didn't feel right. Like I was thinking about those bigger jobs and I was like, I actually don't feel good about that. Yeah, sure. And so I've done the best move of doing my own thing. But what was I saying? I was going somewhere with that.

Josh: No, literally Jack asked about your storey and you told it. Yeah, which is perfect. Uh, then I had something— fuck it, it's a— probably— yeah, how did you—

Tommy: ah, tearing up. It was about tearing up. Oh yeah. And, um, yeah, still got nothing.

Josh: But the thing with tearing up is the— like, I've noticed of late that for whatever reason, different things, like I've noticed that things make me more emotional. I don't know why. Like I've noticed like the last couple of years, like I was reading Bree my like, how sad is this? I was reading her my Instagram post that I did about her. I was like, oh, I'm just gonna, and I got like 3/4 of the way through.

Jack: And you were crying.

Josh: And I wasn't crying, but I started, I was like, choking. Like, yeah. And I was just like, oh, you get the, It's on fucking Instagram already.

Tommy: But even getting married, like, you met your wife through Hamish and Andy or through the being a part of that?

Jack: Yeah, I met her. So we were in New York in 2011 and I met, that's where I met her.

Tommy: Fuck, if it wasn't for Hamish and Andy.

Jack: Yeah, no, I like, all my 20s are tied up in that show pretty much.

Tommy: Oh, she's your fourth, your family. So now you've got to add that in, your four things.

Josh: Oh yeah, four numbers.

Tommy: Can't be three this time.

Jack: Oh yeah, no, it's just one of my hobbies, I guess.

Josh: Yeah. Tourists.

Jack: Yeah. Um, but I would say, yeah, definitely during the wedding I was, I was like fighting furiously, fighting back tears in that moment where she's walking down the aisle. Yeah. I think because like it's everything at once. You don't, you don't really know what to expect because you've never done it before. So you're all of a sudden, you're in a moment with senses are heightened in every single way. Yeah. And, and I remember trying to think of other stuff Yeah, so you wouldn't cry. Yeah.

Tommy: Thinking about music, radio, and footy.

Josh: Yeah, no, but it is screwed up how we, yeah, we try and push back on that. So I think, 'cause it also makes it worse. There's definitely this desire inside, which is like, where it's like this painful feeling. To suppress that emotion. Suppressing any emotion. Like where was I the other day? I was somewhere where I couldn't— Shooty cream. No, it wasn't there, good guess. No, but it was, you were doing a bit of a, see, that's it, Christian O'Connell, I'm Richie, good gag. Because it's a bit of a, it's a slight fat joke, is a Krispy Kreme. What are we doing? We're getting some fudge, some more fudge. Hey, let's go to a break. It's Absolute Radio, boom. There we go, there's a break for you. But the, no, the, no, I was somewhere where I shouldn't be laughing and I started thinking about laughing a lot. And it just like, I ended up having to like reel off every sad thing that's ever happened to me and all the funerals I've been to, to try and not laugh. But it's hard when, as soon as you say, don't laugh in your head, it can get a bit difficult.

Tommy: You gotta let yourself go there. Having a kid is full on. You having kids?

Jack: No, no, no, no, still for at least a couple of years. We're just pushing it to the, you know, far enough away that we don't have to think about it yet. Yeah, great.

Josh: And the thing that I was gonna ask you about about the punching bag thing and, you know, people do know these little bits of your life and they think they know you. Is there any pushback where you no longer wanna be the punching bag? So, for instance, on Instagram, every time, if you ever do a post about you building your house, you're gonna have people slam you being like, 'cause you know, it's been—

Jack: So, for context, my wife and I are renovating our house at the moment and we are going very, very slowly. It's a combination of we're trying to do a lot of things ourselves and just keep running out of money. So it became a running joke on the show that I've been building this house for a year and haven't got anywhere. And we still aren't living in it. We're still living with my mum and dad.

Josh: It's been longer than a year now. Yeah.

Jack: So now it's a year and a half.

Josh: Year and a half. Okay.

Jack: And we're still at least 6 months away from being in there. So I put up every now and again, I'll put up something on Instagram about the progression of the house and people jump on board because they've been taught taught, or any fans of Hamish and Andy have been taught, the acceptable reaction. Yeah, the narrative of what, like, it's funny that it's taken us so long, which it is funny, but it, it just allows strangers to jump in and be part of a joke where you wouldn't, you wouldn't usually say that to a stranger.

Josh: Yeah, because you're like, bro, you're renting, fuck off, you know.

Jack: But at the same time, I actually, I, I don't mind it so much in that it's like, it's almost endearing because they feel like your friend because you would only say that kind of thing to a friend. You wouldn't say it to a stranger on Instagram.

Josh: So you feel like it's okay?

Jack: I feel like it's okay. I just feel like some people just get the temperature wrong sometimes and it just comes across as nasty and they just don't really get it. But I put that down more to their own skill in how to properly communicate, spar in that scenario where it's like, we talked about on Hamish Andy a lot as well. On air? No, behind the scenes is this idea of like play fighting and how you fight with your co-hosts on air. And they have a great analogy, I think, which is like, it's almost like wrestling. Like you make it look like it's hurting, but it's never actually hurting the other person. Whereas some people then listeners or people who aren't as experienced come in and throw actual punches and they don't know how to, spar properly. Like, they're not, they're not playing, they're not play fighting.

Josh: They're just, they use like a real knife.

Tommy: Yeah. What I find interesting about radio stations, and I've worked at, um, ARN and Southern Cross, so, you know, very much similar dynamics across.

Josh: Yeah, ARN for people, Australian Radio Network, Southern, and they've got what, Kiss?

Jack: No, what used to be Mix a lot of places, there still is some places. Yeah.

Josh: And then Southern Cross, hundreds of places, hundreds of radio stations, you know, Fox, B105, regional, and then the Triple M network.

Jack: Yeah.

Tommy: But I always found like the power dynamic depending on the position you're in at the radio station, and I've been in all of them, you know, being on air, being the, you know, Coca-Cola boy, what do you— what are they called, street team? Yeah. Um, just doing—

Jack: and then you were doing video, like a video producer, video producer.

Tommy: And so I mean, I think it's different to an accounting firm, a big accounting firm where it's like the people on air are treated differently to the account managers and then to the work experience fucking kids. Street teamers.

Josh: I think most industries have their version, right? So you go into a tech company and all of the developers are on, you know, $100,000 plus, like there's a certain level that you know, okay, just by being in there, they're sort of high status.

Tommy: I reckon radio station is different though because the top, the talent are outward facing. Yeah. And so then there's this, you know, image around them when it's like they're the face of the business.

Jack: It's more like a sports team. Maybe you could use that analogy where the people on air are the people who are actually going out and playing the game. Yeah, there's a whole—

Josh: Buckly, all of them.

Jack: Whereas there's a whole staff of people behind the scenes that are also making a football team, netball team, basketball team run. That's the same with radio. There's a huge behind-the-scenes cast where from sales to producers to writers to the people who are selling ads and writing ads.

Tommy: I think egos are on edge in the stations too. 'Cause you think about all the kids that wanna be the Jack Post of 2008. You know, having to be work, you know, doing some,, you know, crappy little job and then seeing Hey Mission Andy and then getting that in. And so everyone's trying, have heard these storeys and they're trying to do that, hang around the office, and then the account managers are wanting to be in with the radio team.

Josh: Nothing wrong with any of it, right? But when you're a coach for, when you're a water boy for an AFL team, you know that you're never going to be James Hird, or like, you know, Or NBA, like, you're not like, ah, fuck it, man, how'd you get to be LeBron?

Jack: Yeah, how'd you become the best full forward in the AFL? I just hung around. Like, I would finish when their team started and I sort of just hung around until they would kick me the ball, and then I kicked 100 goals in a season.

Tommy: Yeah. What do you think about just getting a job in a radio station and to progress? Do you think there's limiting spots? Because I know some people are in like account roles because they want to be on air.

Jack: Yeah, I, I don't know. Like, I honestly don't have a lot of experience because I just even though I started with Hamish and Andy in a low role and worked my way up, I never moved, uh, outside of that show. So I also always had a little bit of an umbrella shielding me and allowed me to progress, but also always in that team. But I know a lot of, uh, my career path has been luck. So I don't think it's as easy to say you just work hard in one bit and then you naturally progress to the next bit and naturally progress and so on.

Josh: It's hard because I think that it's stinky doing too much of the, you know, you're going to start in this sort of support role, or, you know, I remember as a digital content producer, as a digital content producer, the biggest slur someone would say is, 'Oh, he wants to be on air.' If someone said that you want to be on air, you would wince a little bit and be like, 'You know what, I'm going to back off,' because you don't—

Jack: you would never want to be seen as the guy wanting to be on the umbrella Yeah, but tell me what I'd like to know, what you think about going regional to advance. So that's a common thing that radio stations will tell young people who aren't ready to be on air. Yeah, yeah. Is, hey, why don't you go and take this opportunity in a smaller regional station, uh, and, you know, get your flying hours up and then come back?

Tommy: Because it's silly and dream, it's totally—

Jack: yeah, it's like, but for some people it works, but I guess for some people it's just a holding place or some easy way to say to someone like oh, uh, just go and make it somebody else's problem. I mean, it's the personal learning.

Tommy: It's the, it's the best thing I did, you know. It took me out of being a personal trainer and having this other career and thrusted me into the media. Yeah. And a completely different learning over 2 years. So it was like, go and do it because it's an experience. If you, you have, you know, time on your side as far as how old you are and family and stuff, it wouldn't be feasible for me to go now. But it's—

Jack: and do you think some people take that role on and expecting something at the other end of it.

Josh: It's like film school, right? Film school can be really fucking great because you can get a community, you can learn all these things, you've got this great structure. But at the same time, going to film school doesn't give you some sort of certificate that you can go and cash in at Hollywood and say, I'm gonna make films.

Jack: And just like— Yeah, I did all my homework, I'm ready.

Josh: And it's the same with being in any of the regional stations anywhere in the world. It's like just by you doing it doesn't actually give you any extra level of opportunity. All it does is maybe you'll be able to refine your skill so you're a better version to, but no one, like the CDs of a radio station, content directors are not sitting down looking at a resume saying, okay, they did this regional one, so that's good.

Jack: That's like, that's just not— Well, they're never gonna go, if there's two, people going for the same job and one's a little bit more talented, they're never going to go, oh well, the guy who we sent over to Dubbo, yeah, I mean, he's put in the hard work, so let's give it to him. They're always going to go for whoever's the best.

Josh: Not only that, but I, I would say, and this is probably slightly controversial, that it would play against you in the sense of like from a standing out point of view. If you're doing— if you, if you go down the track of doing the regional radio type stuff, there is a lot of people like you doing the exact same thing. Whereas if you're the oddball, like what they're looking for, my guess nowadays is the next big thing, the thing that's gonna be a little bit different. So if you're a comedian who's built up an open mic night and that's, you know, doing their own podcasts and doing all that sort of stuff, I feel like CDs would look at that.

Jack: Doing their own podcast, eh? This guy wants to get on air. How? This guy wants to get on air.

Josh: Why do you think Why do you think you're here, Jack? No, but do you think—

Jack: I tend to agree with you. One thing it does guarantee is that you'll get upskilled. So you're gonna— Absolutely. By the nature of it, you're gonna get a lot of skills that the other person hasn't, but you're right, it has no guarantees attached to the end of it.

Josh: What do you think if you didn't have the sort of the, these next steps that you have planned with Christian O'Connell Show, is that what it's gonna be called by the way? The Christian O'Connell Show.

Jack: It's called the Christian O'Connell Breakfast Show. Okay, the Christian O'Connell Breakfast Show.

Josh: I'll put that in the description so we can SEO for it just to leverage everything that's going on right now.

Jack: Appreciate the leverage, by the way. How long do you guys usually go for?

Josh: I just gotta put my parking money away. We're gonna go for another 5 to 10 minutes. 5, 10.

Tommy: Yeah. You got enough parking?

Jack: Well, I got the PayStay app. Do you guys ever use that? I've used that before. When it finishes, can I reload or it doesn't work that way? When does it finish? In 4 minutes.

Josh: The great thing about PayStay is it's all on the app.

Tommy: And it's easy to use. They're not our sponsor. That would have been a great integration.

Josh: That was fucking amazing integration.

Jack: Put it in the comments.

Josh: We can literally just do that.

Tommy: We'll do 4 to 5 minutes, then we'll leave.

Josh: Yeah, but I think the, Jack, if you weren't doing this sort of thing, do you reckon, are you sort of someone who would do the podcast thing? How much is that on your mind and how much are you listening to it?

Jack: Yeah, I think I would have because I wouldn't have quickly gone to another radio show from Hamish and Andy because, um, not because there's not good shows out there, but just I was a little less excited to do, um, radio after finishing with Hamish and Andy. Christian coming along was sort of the only thing where I thought, oh well, this looks— this honestly looks different to anything else that's going to be on air. And I was already a fan of his show after first hearing it in 2012 and since and I've podcasted it from time to time since then. So it was the only thing where I was honestly really excited to do it. And that's why I stayed in radio. But I mean, I really took 6 months off besides this Hamish Andy podcast we're doing. I haven't been working in radio.

Tommy: And you did fucking nothing 'cause your house isn't built.

Jack: I'm trying, Hamish. You're telling me I'm trying.

Tommy: Am I allowed to say that?

Josh: Do I know you well enough? I don't know. This guy wants to get on air with you. Yeah.

Tommy: We're definitely getting that vibe. Christian, if you're listening, I'm here for you, buddy. Yeah, exactly.

Josh: Happy to be sidekick number 2. And so, what do you worry about over this whole journey? 'Cause you even fucking went to the UK as well. That's one thing I keep wanting to bring up. You went there to hang out and have some sort of dates with Christian.

Jack: Well, it was just to make sure that we were rip to honestly get along. 'Cause I guess it is one, like that dynamic is so important. It's one thing to go, there's 2 people who can work together capably do these two roles, but it doesn't mean that you can automatically put them in a room and it's going to work. And we still don't— like, honestly, no one can say if it is going to work. But at least having that week where I spent in London, yeah, we were able to just subside our own fears about it and go, all right, well, I can get along with this person naturally, so it's not so big a jump to expect us to do this on air.

Tommy: So it's as much as you get to know. Yeah.

Josh: And so logistically Like I'm curious, when you go to see him for the first time, have they given you an offer? So is there a— No, no, no. There was no financial sort of idea?

Jack: I hardly talked to Gold FM or Gold 104 at all before going. So it was Christian who contacted me first and our back and forth was going for a long time before he even brought Gold into it.

Josh: Oh, interesting. So it was like he was actually pitching you pitching you in.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, sorry, that's right. Yeah, so it was Christian's idea to use me on the show, not Gold's idea. Yeah, that's great.

Tommy: Yeah, how much is the journey? That's the journey. Like, being on the show is one thing, but you getting flown over there, it's like— it was honestly surreal.

Jack: Especially because I semi— I felt like I'd semi-retired from radio. Besides the Amish and Annie podcast, I'd said goodbye to it and, you know, took out my hammer and started slowly— yeah, knocking that house back together. But it was surreal. He called me for the first time just before New Year's Eve, and I guess he— because he knows Hamish and Andy a little bit from doing those shows, he was using them a lot as a sounding board for all the fears he had about coming to Australia, like how people react to it what are the other breakfast shows like, what the personnel could be like to expect from producers to newsreaders to this sidekick role. So I have Hamish and Andy to thank as well for putting my name forward, or at least if he asked about me, then they gave me a good recommendation. Well, they at least gave him your number, which is— that's right, he did get my number somehow. So it's good. I think that came through Andy.

Tommy: But, and now he's taking 10% of your deal.

Josh: Andy Lee Management. Finders fee.

Jack: Exactly.

Josh: And so, and what would you say to people who hear this journey and feel like they're at the beginning, they're at 20 years, 20 years old, they're doing the panelling for a national show and they're in, you know, some other other part, you know, what really interesting—

Jack: I like— I just, I just don't know what the best advice to give is because I guess my head goes to just get as much time and experience as possible, which is, is goes back to that regional, um, or even community radio advice, which is just go and do a show on SYN FM. It doesn't matter if no one's listening to it. If you do it every day of the week for 3 months then you're going to get experience no matter how much you put into it or not. But I personally, like, even though I did do community radio, I didn't, um, like, I didn't work as hard as some people who really, like, put in the effort and went to regional stations and, and really slogged it out. I always had a little bit of an attitude like I was happy to leave radio if my time naturally came to an end. End. Yeah. And I didn't want to outstay my welcome or force something that didn't seem natural. And I got very lucky that I came across a show that I gelled really well with, which was Hamish and Andy. So I was able to stay for a long time. But if I— I, I didn't grow up loving radio as a kid and, and have my heart set on being a radio announcer, and I was happy to say people love to— I know, I might a little bit. Yeah. And it, and it's true, it doesn't mean I don't love radio now. I do absolutely love of it. Yeah.

Josh: But it's a different journey, right? And I think that maybe people get stuck in like, okay, 'cause the other thing too, which I respect is you've been willing to play second fiddle for a long time. Like you and you're happy, like even within this role, it's a sidekick role. So you're able to sort of, do you think you need to put your ego aside? That's right.

Jack: Like I think someone with more ambition could have taken the first couple of years. Of, of traction I had on the Hamish and Andy Show and run with it as far as they could. Um, whereas I was, I was happy to settle into it. Yeah. And I guess I just am fortunate that I had that perfect balance of, I've, I loved it and wanted to keep doing it, but I didn't want to be a world beater and go out and, and demand that I was going to be the next announcer or next big thing in radio. And that's how I've been able to have somewhat of a long career just playing second fiddle.

Tommy: That's sad music that's just come up. But I like it.

Jack: Honestly, it plays to my personality. I don't wanna be, I'm not very attention seeking. I don't wanna be up the front waving and saying, this is all about me. This is all about me. I'm much more—

Josh: Yeah, leave that up to Tommy and I to do that. Thanks, mate.

Jack: Like don't even put me in the description of this episode.

Tommy: Just let people discover me naturally.

Josh: Well, mute my voice. It's the Daily Talk Show, everyone. Thanks, Jack, for coming into Tommy's office.

Tommy: No doubt we'll leverage what you're doing as soon as the show comes up. Thanks for having me.

Josh: And June 4th is when it's—

Jack: June 4th is when the first, uh, yeah, first on-air day, which is everybody else's— every other radio show's, uh, holidays, which is June, the survey break.

Josh: Also our 100th episode with Hamish Blake. June 4th. So we'll be— yeah, so we won't livestream it because we obviously don't want to sort of clash with anything.

Jack: You should all— the three of you should listen to some of the show and then give me feedback.

Josh: Could we do a simulcast? Do you think that should— I mean, that's huge. It's a huge opportunity for Christian Bode.

Tommy: And which place is going to be the pool mattering?

Josh: All right, everyone, if you, um, if you think we're completely fucking wrong about all of this radio stuff, send us an email, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. And you're probably a bit of a podcast nerd too, so if you've ever done a review and you'd like to review another one, we'd appreciate it if you did it to this show. Have a good one. Bye. Great.