Ranking on Google

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show. I'm Josh Janson.

Tommy: I'm Tommy Jackett.

Josh: And this is the Conversation Sometimes Worth Recording, episode 92.

Tommy: We don't know if it is worth recording yet, but we'll get there.

Josh: Yeah, uh, I was just looking at my emails before we started recording, and, uh, is that the built-in chip you have?

Tommy: The, uh, the lens in your eyeball that you—

Josh: I don't need that. I don't need that. I'm just constantly looking at my computer and phone. If you haven't noticed, but I get Google Alerts.

Tommy: These are ones you set up to trigger off if you've put a keyword in there, is that what that is?

Josh: Do you have any Google? I guess you don't.

Tommy: No, Jules Lund told me, mate, you gotta put, sounds like the most egotistical thing to do, put your name, put Tommy Jacket into Google Alerts so when it comes up, you know who's talking about you.

Josh: I don't know if it's too egotistical because I do have a Google Alert for Josh Jansen. Okay, and you've had one go off? Yeah, I had one go off under the news section, radio info, uh, Cacklin Jack post chats with the Daily Talk Show. Yeah, so the, um, the circle jerk is real but appreciated. Yeah, but I'm part of the circle jerk.

Tommy: You are?

Josh: I am. I've always been part of the circle jerk. Yeah, but, um, you're really at the front, really just working that right arm. You know what's annoying about the, uh, the Google Alerts? I've started, started getting Slightly concerned. There's some other Josh Jansen who's got some good skills, athletic prowess. Okay. And he's starting to— I get a notification every week after he's played some sport around his statistics.

Tommy: Fuck, we should— I mean, I'm happy to do an update segment on how Josh Jansen the sports star is going.

Josh: The problem is I just don't want anyone to with my name to be sort of peaking too much to the point that it's sort of I become the second Josh.

Tommy: Well, they don't own joshjanson.com.

Josh: It's true.

Tommy: They don't own any other related domain to your name.

Josh: He's too busy going out there, perform, like doing the athletic thing.

Tommy: I've got no problem with another Tommy Jacket because there is fuck all Tommy Jackets. Actually, I've got a distant cousin called Tom Jacket. I've actually been getting added on Facebook by people with the surname Jacket. And in some way they have to be related because our family's very, very small.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: And so how many—

Josh: Does that mean that it's quite inbred?

Tommy: Um, are you saying that my family fucked each other?

Josh: Yeah, I think that's what it is.

Tommy: No, it's just a small family. I mean, there's not many people. I've asked a lot of people, have you ever met—

Josh: Small family just means, okay, the Jacket family hasn't You don't have many kids.

Tommy: I don't think so. Well, get this, Amy, when she was working at an orthodontic clinic up in Sydney, they've all got great teeth out there.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Invisalign.

Josh: Is where it's at. Yeah.

Tommy: That's where it's at. She was talking to a woman who called up who happened to have the last surname as mine.

Josh: With a double T at the end?

Tommy: Jacket. I've never seen someone with J-A-C-K-E-T. Really? Okay. Other than when people fuck up my name and say J-S-A-K-E-T, not double T. And turned out she was related to me some way, and I'd connected with her on Facebook. There's quite a few Americans.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: We should just get another jacket on.

Josh: Yeah, we could. I think if we could get a Tommy jacket, that'd be really great. But the—

Tommy: Well, that's what Facebook has done, opened you up to be able to find these people.

Josh: It's very easy. It doesn't require much research.

Tommy: Not at all.

Josh: 15 years ago, that would probably be a good segment on radio. Let's let's find, you know, a Josh Janson in Melbourne.

Tommy: I actually was getting some print, um, which we'll do at some point, getting some stamps created.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: And it was like, this is like, this was for my stripping company, Aussie Spanks. That's funny. Um, but I got a stamp.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, because we were running an event and it was our logo and it was like automatically inked. Like in a tree? You didn't have to ink it. It was just like it would flip around and stamp down when you put it down.

Josh: There's definitely ink going on though.

Tommy: No, it's pre-inked. It's pre-inked. It's not like the old—

Josh: Yeah, okay, sure.

Tommy: Physical stamp. The shop that I got that from, they were like, oh, you know, I know a Tom Jacket.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It's me cousin, me distant cousin.

Josh: I know that Ryan Shelton can't get ryanshelton.com.

Tommy: That's annoying.

Josh: Because there's some like illustrator or some artist that has his name, which is disappointing. Jack Post. You type in Jack Post into Google and you'll just get a bunch of jack posts, which is like some sort of hardware. Jack doing a post? No, it's no, it's some sort of— I don't know. I don't know anything about hardware. You can tell me what this is.

Tommy: Okay.

Josh: Jack Post. It's a bit unfortunate. All these things.

Tommy: It's like a jack.

Josh: Yeah. You're not explaining it because it's so obvious.

Tommy: No, so a car, like it almost looks like a car jack.

Josh: With a post. Like, it's actually, it's a product rather than a person. Anyway, you go onto Google Images.

Tommy: Looks similar to Jack.

Josh: It takes about 150— is after the Jack post, which is the Jakarta. Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, the reality of this is unless you're playing in the media space, it really fucking doesn't matter. Because if you just want to fly under the radar in terms of you don't really want to play in that arena. You can be on LinkedIn, you can be— I get it. For us, we're so immersed in where are we on fucking Google.

Josh: Well, I just like the— I like knowing, yeah, that I— if you type in Josh Janson, you're going to get a, um, a result that's related to me. Actually, uh, I remember— I'm trying to think of the, the show, uh, there was a a breakfast show. It was when Kiss was mix, and I called up and won Wanker of the Week. And the reason I won was, yeah, the Wanker of the Week was I got it for being like, I told them how I Googled myself most days. And they, and so I won tickets to like before the game or some sort of like football show, which was great. But no, I, yeah, definitely the SEO thing, like I obsess about that. Like you'll notice if you type in the Daily Talk Show, into Google, it will be number one.

Tommy: Yeah, well, we were just looking at Craig Bruce's podcast. We tried to type it in. Craigy boy, love you, mate.

Josh: Yeah, we can, we can help you out.

Tommy: We'll help you out with some SEO juice. Yeah, well, I won't.

Josh: Josh will. Yeah, I can, I can say that.

Tommy: But I like the SEO juice.

Josh: It is good, isn't it?

Tommy: Yeah, SEO juice. So we'll sling some SEO juice your way, Craig.

Josh: It's not how it works. You don't just sling it across.

Tommy: Or you probably need to give us your password.

Josh: No, we don't need password. It just— there's a— we'll need to have sort of a strategy session. Yeah. You can sit down.

Tommy: Well, I'd be using it.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And cash will be exchanged. I'll be, I'll be just there for moral support. Josh, Josh Janson, that's your name. Just had to, I'm just giving you a Google alert. Trump's documentary on Netflix. You've been watching it.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I'm torn between whether I'd do this if I was in a position like him and I reckon it's something you'd do.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: There's a scene in— it's not a scene, it's a real thing that happened, is where— come into Trump's office and on his desk is a stack of these papers and they've got little mini Post-it notes at the page. And when you open the page, it's an article about Trump. And what Trump does is goes through and reads all the bits.

Josh: It's a real Google Alerts. But unfortunately, it would be the equivalent of Donald Trump opening his Post-it note to some fucking lacrosse player in some random state.

Tommy: He'd have him assassinated.

Josh: You know, my favourite storey from that doco was Trump actually— There was a, I think it was a New York Times reporter or a New Yorker reporter. This was years and years and years ago. They were told they wanted to speak to Trump and they were told that he wasn't available, but the communications person was.

Tommy: Like a PR person.

Josh: So, the journalist is talking to the PR person and they were saying, they were really pumping up Trump. They were still talking about how, you know, he's got a lot of— It was about a personal situation, about a relationship. And he was just saying, it was just all this stuff about how there's a lot of women that want him and that sort of thing. Anyway, you play the tape back now and it's in fact Donald Trump pretending to be a PR person.

Tommy: Fuck, I honestly think there's bits of him that are you.

Josh: I wouldn't do it.

Tommy: I reckon you'd do it.

Josh: Can you not have your mic so close to your chest? Bring it out just a tiny bit. We're still working on mic technique. I think it might be okay. We're trying to—

Tommy: If you haven't thought my mic techniques have been an issue, please let us know. hi@thedailytalkshow.com.

Josh: We're going to be fixing the popping of the Ps very soon. Yeah, but, um, Yeah. No, I don't know if I would do. Maybe the closest thing would be the phone call. Like, I've definitely pretended when I was a kid trying to sort out my, like, Dad's Telstra bill. Yeah. Doing the whole like, okay, I'm going to call up as Richard.

Tommy: Fuck. It's so funny when you're a kid and you think you're going to get away with something or you think that impersonate, like, people see through shit so easily.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Have I told you the storey about how We used to go to the Milk Bar and we would forge a letter that was basically saying, I can't buy cigarettes and I've had to send my son and here's an envelope with money. And could you please sell him a packet of Benson Hedges?

Josh: The Milk Bar knows what's going on.

Tommy: I know. I bet we were convinced that that would work.

Josh: Oh, so it didn't work?

Tommy: It did work.

Josh: Well, it would be. But it's not the bit that's not worth the bit that you're not manipulating them. That's just enabling them to be like, okay, we'll just say that.

Tommy: Yes, exactly. But we thought that we were manipulating them. And it goes even beyond that. I won't name their names, but there was a letter written that was basically the same saying, I give my permission. I would give my son permission to buy a porno. He got knocked back. They would sell the ciggies but wouldn't sell the porn.

Josh: It's sort of— I get that. I mean, it's pretty— it'd be weird for your parents to be like, mate, can you just— it's like, what's this day and age equivalent? Oh mate, can you just go out and get Pornhub ready for me? I'm gonna be there in 5. It just wouldn't make it— outsourcing your porn issues with the kids.

Tommy: But how silly is a kid's mindset?

Josh: I never owned a porn mag in my life.

Tommy: Interesting.

Josh: Just, I guess we were sort of on the— You were a couple of years older.

Tommy: And so, you have been on the internet since you were 3.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: So, if anything, joke's on the people that bought because you got it for free.

Josh: Well, the funny thing was like in primary school, they— It was so sort of primitive, all this internet stuff that they didn't have any filters. So, kids would just put up the most horrendous— I don't know how kids knew these words. But it's like you would remember as a kid there was the horse fucking video that everyone was sharing on their phones. That was sort of a big thing. Just imagine what kids share now. It's pretty horrendous, for sure.

Tommy: I used to find a heap of porno magazines.

Josh: Where?

Tommy: They were just like down along the canal. I lived near a— like a sewage canal. It wasn't dirty.

Josh: This sounds fucking filthy.

Tommy: Sounds dirty. People used to dump a lot of shit.

Josh: There's your memoir. It's like finding pornos next to the sewage pipe or something.

Tommy: We found a whole box of marijuana plants, like someone had been growing them, and then they were still in their pots.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: And they were trying to, um, I don't know what, they just dumped them there. But you'd find heaps of stuff in the canals. They're called— it's called the canal.

Josh: It sounds fucking disgusting. I don't know if I'd go down there.

Tommy: We used to hang out heaps there.

Josh: Is it like where, you know, Los Angeles have that sort of famous— is it so that's—

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, it's a mini version of that.

Josh: Okay, sounds shit.

Tommy: And so, yeah, I had friends that would live in houses that backed onto that. It was awesome.

Josh: You know, SEO, we've been talking about it already a bit, search engine optimization. So, it's appearing up on Google. This is what the title of the show is going to be, Search Engine Optimization. If you're wondering—

Tommy: Say that again.

Josh: Search Engine Optimization. Optimization.

Tommy: You should see Josh's face when he says that.

Josh: I'm articulating. But, um, no, the, the other thing that I've been doing, you know, one of the factors with search engine optimization— there's two factors. Let's just talk about it for a couple of minutes. Just, I'm going to give some really quick tips.

Tommy: Good, because I'm interested because I've got no fucking clue about it.

Josh: So you have two levels of optimization. So if you want to be able to rank well for Google, there's two main areas that you can play in. Onsite optimization and offsite optimization. Onsite optimization is things that you can do to your actual website to help it rank on Google.

Tommy: Okay.

Josh: Some of these things include what the titles are— I can hear a truck beeping in the background, please don't panic everyone. The title that you call the page, that's sort of one factor. So imagine you've got a point system and that's a couple of points for that. Then the content that's within within the website, so the body text.

Tommy: So the about, about the business.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. So if you're wanting to rank for video production company, you want to make sure that you have mentions of video production company within the text. The title, for instance, you basically have different sizes of headings. So you imagine if you go to a website, you'll see a really big title and then you'll see some smaller titles. The big title The H1 tag should only ever have— you should only ever have one H1 tag per page. And this is what— I see you glazing over, so I'm just slightly getting bored.

Tommy: It's amazing you saw that, but started thinking about something else.

Josh: Yeah, no, I can, I can tell straight away. Basically, there's all that. So, and there's one of the factors with on-site optimization, uh, is your domain name. So we have thedailytalkshow.com. Solid. So when people type in The Daily Talk Show, it's actually easier for us to rank I was thinking, um, early days using our names, I went through all these different combinations to find what we ended up with, the daily talk show. Josh and Tommy, Tommy and Josh. Typed in Tommy and Josh, and, uh, it turns out that it's not available.

Tommy: Yeah, why is it not available?

Josh: Well, we, we don't have a competitor in another market, or we might if depending how you look at life. But no, it's two dudes that got married in 2015 named Tommy and Josh.

Tommy: Where are they? Can you show me the website now?

Josh: Yeah, let's go.

Tommy: I'm guessing they're American.

Josh: Why? Oh, because of gay marriage.

Tommy: They're a bit more forward with the gay marriage stuff.

Josh: Tommyandjosh.com.

Tommy: Tommyandjosh.com.

Josh: Surely they don't need it because this is sort of their—

Tommy: Ah, so it links to another website, happycouple.com/wedding/.

Josh: Tommy and Josh, you'd think. So, June 6th, 2015.

Tommy: They're happily ever after.

Josh: Yeah. So, that was 3 years ago.

Tommy: We need our relationship official on a web page.

Josh: Why don't we do this? Why don't we— The best way that we could potentially get this domain name, why don't we reach out to them on their anniversary? June 6th this year. That's episode 102.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: Why don't we try and do something nice for them? I'll have to think about what it is. Tommy and Josh. If you go to Tommy and Josh, so they're in Pennsylvania.

Tommy: Yeah, that's what I thought.

Josh: Willow Grove. It's in Pennsylvania. Yeah. So, that could be fun. I mean—

Tommy: Get them on the show. The Tommy and Josh that are actually married. Yeah.

Josh: I mean, we're basically— We're, yeah, just outside of Philadelphia.

Tommy: Yeah, we'll tell them, so guys, we've got a podcast, we do it 5 days a week, which is basically what marriage is. Needing to communicate.

Josh: It's just a couple of couples with the same names talking. But it's interesting. Yeah, I wonder if they would ever give us their domain.

Tommy: They should.

Josh: Even Josh calls himself Joshua on the website.

Tommy: Nah, nah, you don't.

Josh: So, nah, he can't have that. Have you been— So, you've been pretty—

Tommy: Cute little couple.

Josh: You've been pretty lucky. Yeah. I wonder if that one's Josh.

Tommy: Enjoying a little holiday.

Josh: That one's Josh because that one seems like he would be me and that looks like more like you. So, hey, this guy's got a New York Yankees hat.

Tommy: He is the— let's work out who's who.

Josh: I guess they don't need to. If you need to know, then you're not close enough to—

Tommy: Well, we'll find it out before. So, SEO on-site. Now, SEO off-site. Yes, so very quickly, off-site optimization is is things like backlinks.

Josh: So, when Radio Today, for instance, if they link— I don't know if those fuckers did. Guys, if you mention us, please make sure you tag us up. Is the article— I thought the article went for a second there. Yeah, we've been on Radio Today, yet they haven't linked us anywhere. They have embedded our thing, but yeah, so if people Link back to our site. Yeah, that is going to help as well. Gives us juice.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: At what point do you stop worrying about it?

Tommy: Nah, like, uh, worry about sounding like a robot when you're trying to write like, we are a video production business in Melbourne that caters to all kinds of video and content needs.

Josh: That's, yeah, filming, filmmaking, you know, like, well, so in some regards, these, this advice that I've given is slightly outdated because Google now has like all these metrics that they're using to base how they rank things. So it used to be really easy 15 years ago, you'd be able to do what's known as keyword stuffing. So you could go and what people would do is they would just at the bottom of their page, they would— and this is what's known as black hat SEO. So you have white hat SEO and black hat SEO.

Tommy: White hat good?

Josh: Yeah. Black hat is the normal stuff I was talking about? Black hat is sort of manipulating the system to try and rank higher, and the risk with that is that you end up, um, Google will notice that you're doing it and you'll be penalised for it. But basically what people would do is they'll just keyword stuff at the bottom. So say if you wanted to rank for Tommy Jacket, they would keyword stuff at the bottom, but what they'd also do is change the text colour to be the background colour so people can't— people couldn't see it. But Google is smart enough now to know if you're putting text that's the same colour as the background. But where people go wrong— smart Google— where people go wrong is, and it's less common now, but with the Flash websites, it was the text was embedded in images and in Flash, and Google can't index that. Google can't read this. So it's important that that you're actually using text within your site.

Tommy: But, um, yeah, no, so I know when you're on a website that's highly optimised because there's so much text, it's hard to do that.

Josh: And that's the thing with like, I am on the first page for video production company if you are in Melbourne and type that in. And, um, yeah, it's a, uh, I went from when I started full stack, I was, um, uh, I went for this— some stuff that, like, language that was really sort of, um, appealing and that was sort of more aspirational. So it's like, we, you know, we're filmmakers that tell storeys and all that sort of thing. Whereas if you go on there now, I made sort of a decision that I'm like, ah, fuck it, I'm just gonna try this whole SEO thing. So now it's very— if you do a search on my, um, on my website, do a Command+F and type in video production, there's like a dozen mentions. But the thing is that it's not keyword stuffing because I then write a bunch more content. So you need to be smart about, okay, I'm going to, um, create a bunch of content around it.

Tommy: I paid an Indian-based tech company to do my SEO.

Josh: Well, that seems like the glamorous thing to— there's something glamorous about like, oh, I've got a virtual assistant, I've got a virtual team. How did that go for you?

Tommy: I up falling out with them.

Josh: Did you?

Tommy: They were fucked.

Josh: I knew that it was a bit fucked up, but what ended up—

Tommy: They ended up wanting— I wanted 2 sites done and they wanted the money after the first one, but I said I'd only paid half. It was something to do with money. And sure, it's probably fuck all that they're actually getting paid from me, but the point was I made it known how the payment was going down from the start and then I pushed it. And so I ended up just I— yeah, they just—

Josh: well, the risk is that they hold your website at ransom.

Tommy: I changed every fucking password before I went hard on them.

Josh: But the other thing too is it's a, um, yeah, though those types of people you have to be careful of because you want— it needs to be high quality code, and some of it's just botched jobs. Like, they'll do custom shit and it's just like done all the wrong way.

Tommy: I paid 300 maybe $250 per website. And I showed a dude who basically builds— he builds websites from the ground up. He's built his own, like, website builder. And he's like, yeah, this is disgusting. He's like— he showed me. So websites are, for people that are really fucking on the edge like me of not knowing anything, they're just literally words, code. It's all code that translates into physical things through a system. I don't know.

Josh: Wow.

Tommy: Well, that's about it. I mean, they probably, they probably really connected with that, the other people that are struggling like me. But my point being, he showed me all this code.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And there was like just random shit. It even looked random to me.

Josh: And so the thing— but so the, the problem with that too is one of the things that Google are looking at nowadays. So in 2018 some of the things that they're looking at now which they might not have been looking at 10 years ago. Things like site speed, so how quickly your site loads. So that's why having clean code and not overcomplicating it— that's why templates can be an issue. If you're using a template and it's one of those templates that can do everything, potentially there's all this code that's just sitting there dormant which you don't need, or plugins.

Tommy: So what— how much should you pay nowadays for a website. What do you reckon?

Josh: One other thing, real quick thing, the, the other thing that, uh, there, uh, Google is rewarding is people who have a responsive website or a site that is designed for mobile. Okay, so if you, um, that most templates will have that out of the back. Yeah, yeah, out of the gate. I think so. What, what should you pay for a website? It's, it's like asking how much should someone pay for a video.

Tommy: It's a— Okay, say I've got a business.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It's a production business. We make videos and, you know, it's all service-based and we want to have descriptions and video examples. Like, I think that's a template of a business is the about section, what they offer, you know, contact us.

Josh: Yeah. And so I think that if you were doing that sort of site and wanted a custom build, I would say anywhere from like, and done like decently, so getting a freelancer to do it for you, getting them to build it from the ground up. On the lower end, I'll do $2,500. On the higher end, you know, sort of $5,000 for something that's just like all content and all that sort of thing. So that's like if you go to a freelancer or a small agency,. But then you could go on to a marketplace like Envato, where I used to work, and buy a template for $80 or $60. And the thing is, there's a learning curve there. So, that's one option.

Tommy: I've tried doing it myself.

Josh: Squarespace—

Tommy: I struggle.

Josh: Squarespace is a good option for a lot of people.

Tommy: Yeah, I've built some websites on that. I paid $10K for a website once.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Don't tell you that. The Aussie Spunks one. It was flash.

Josh: Aussie Spunks is getting— a real workout today.

Tommy: It was a Flash website, had like animated logo and video when you first came in, which was probably pretty forward at that time.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: 2009, 2008.

Josh: No, it wasn't. I think 2008 was the— 2008, I think, was the year that Steve Jobs said that Flash was dead.

Tommy: Oh, shit.

Josh: Actually, that's a fun bit of trivia. Have a think of when it actually was.

Tommy: Well, let me think, when did I, so when was I, how old am I now? 30, so when I was 19, I was a stripper. So 9, 10 years ago, what is it? 18, yeah, 2008.

Josh: Okay, so there was a letter that Apple wrote, so you weren't too bad. So Apple wrote a letter called Thoughts on Flash back in 2008, in 2010.

Tommy: 2010. So, it was a couple years before.

Josh: It was basically saying, look, Flash is dead.

Tommy: Adobe Flash is dead.

Josh: Yeah, and so that's why a lot— and so, you know, all of these user experience stuff were part of the problem. So, for instance, people who might have a disability, so they have trouble reading, and so they use software to be able to read the text out to them. If you're building it, if you're embedding the text into an image or if it's a Flash site, the computer can't see that that's text, they can't read it out, or if they want to increase the size. So all the user experience stuff is a big, a big thing.

Tommy: The, the closest interest and digital chubby I get when I'm— when I was talking to my friend who's a coder, yeah, um, builds websites, he was telling me about Facebook and what they built their website with. So the tools that they built it with, do you know what it was?

Josh: What they They're not using Ruby on Rails, are they?

Tommy: So they built it with an existing one and then they created their own.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so their own language, their own code language.

Josh: Yeah. And so I think that that's fairly, um, common practice. And the biggest issue with businesses that are older who, you know, they may have been established in 2005, 2006, or— and they're doing well now— is you have what's known as like legacy code. So I was at a fintech event, like finance technology. Fucking riveting. Yeah. And so they were talking about the biggest concern they have around the technology is that they put a time period to it, but basically that every single person that knew the technology that was used by banks to run their systems would be retired. That's what they're like. It's so old, it's such like legacy code that— and it's the same with even the, um, the system, the system which is used to be able to, um, connect, like, for you to work out flights. So what the airlines use, what the travel agents use. I remember speaking to a client who they provide Corporate travel stuff, like technology, and like that is so, so old as well. So, you can't even like, can't even deal with images on like that platform because it's too much for it to handle. So, it can only be text. And so, they were doing a whole bit of work on minimising the size of the files to be able to make it work with this system.

Tommy: Amy used to work for Excite Travel. Yeah., and those dudes who built that business, they're like similar corporate, you know, looking after bulk amount of travel for businesses. I think that's it. Anyway, they built their business in the early days on an Excel spreadsheet that they'd just update.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And you just plug it in and then they develop their own.

Josh: And that's what I think in a lot of ways what I get excited about this, about technology and how to innovate and do things.

Tommy: Kind of saying I'm getting a digital chub right now. It's working up.

Josh: It's the— So, the thing—

Tommy: Put the pants back on.

Josh: So, what you're referring to, and it's something, it's been our ethos through this whole thing, which is minimum viable product. What's the minimum thing that we can do now to try and get to a point where we're bringing it to market? And that's why, you know, we're gonna be having a, we might have a guest on in the future. And rather than saying, hey, let's get them next week or let's get them now, it's like, let's get them in 5 months' time. So then the minimum viable product is still people that we know getting like building up what we're doing.

Tommy: You've waved it back in. You've waved the podcast tool back in.

Josh: I have, I have. It is about— and so the point is that a lot of people will look at what is out there. They look at Facebook, they look at these big businesses and say, well, they're built on this or they do that, so we need to do it. But the thing is that there is something in starting, testing, and then shifting quickly. So rather than trying to get obsessed, you know, with that— in saying that, there is also that other argument, which is, um, what I think that we've tried to do with the podcast— sorry, uh, and, you know, and even our businesses— is create foundational things that are good foundationally, that you could then potentially put things on top and it's not going to fucking fall down. Yeah, rather than having this like really shitty foundation.

Tommy: We're not, we're not having a flash website. I'll agree with that.

Josh: Yeah, it's, uh, the daily talk show, different one today. Yeah, it's sort of, uh, I enjoyed that. I feel like it's been a while since we've gone into the weeds.

Tommy: Um, I think you get excited. I, I half the time just like your excitement talking about fucking technology.

Josh: Michelle, Michelle emailed pointing out that, uh, yesterday I called the listeners fuckers.

Tommy: Fuckers! Fuckers is endearing.

Josh: Yeah, it's endearing. And maybe it's a way of getting them to fucking act, pull their finger out and give us a review.

Tommy: A slight stroke and act. Act! Really?

Josh: I need to do a wee, actually.

Tommy: But it was all around subscribing. He said—

Josh: No, it wasn't subscribe, it was review. Reviewing. Yeah.

Tommy: So we're our listeners building, but you fuckers aren't reviewing.

Josh: Please! Oh, that's good. That was a good one. No, but you know, we might, maybe we'll do something special for the people who have, you know, OGs. When we're at episode 1,000 and we've hired out an entire hotel, you know who's going to get the fucking best rooms? True. It's going to be the people that reviewed the podcast, obviously.

Tommy: No, it's fucking you and me because there's only two.

Josh: Tomorrow, let's also loop loop back, uh, Trevor Long sent a tweet this morning. Yeah, uh, in regards to something we spoke about and about a guest that we might be getting on the future. So, let's talk about that tomorrow. Thanks, everyone. Have a good one.